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<v Speaker 1>Why Billy Cunningham the Great America. About twelve days ago

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<v Speaker 1>there were a group of so called neo Nazis standing

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<v Speaker 1>on a bridge overpast I seventy five, hurling forth some

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<v Speaker 1>of their neo Nazi symbols. Since then, all hell's broken loose,

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<v Speaker 1>I head on. A couple hours ago, David Ferrera. Ferrera

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<v Speaker 1>is a new reporter with the Inquir's been out it

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<v Speaker 1>for about seven or eight months, but long experience in

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<v Speaker 1>the journalism business, wrote a column that quote, armed men

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<v Speaker 1>are guarding the streets of Lincoln Heights, stopping cars and

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<v Speaker 1>vetting passers. By joining you and I now, as the

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<v Speaker 1>Sheriff of Hamilton County, Charmaine mcguffey's been out at about

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<v Speaker 1>thirty some years in law enforcement, that twice elected sheriff

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<v Speaker 1>and Sheriff welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show. And

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, I want to get your reaction to

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<v Speaker 1>this inchoir story about armed men walking up to a

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<v Speaker 1>car windows with guns pointed in that direction, ordering the

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<v Speaker 1>occupants to do or not do certain things. What about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you Bill for having me on so that

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell the constituents of Hamilton County the facts

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<v Speaker 2>first of all, report There were two reports made about this.

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<v Speaker 2>The first report was a report that surrounded this. There

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<v Speaker 2>was a woman on the fourteenth here of February who

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<v Speaker 2>was sitting at a stop sign and she wrote it

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<v Speaker 2>went down and she took photos of a man standing

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<v Speaker 2>with carrying a firearm open carry. And the man stepped

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<v Speaker 2>to her window and said, I don't want this on Facebook.

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<v Speaker 2>Delete it, and she did, and then she drove off.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was called in as an information only because

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<v Speaker 2>there was no crime. There was no crime committed, so

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<v Speaker 2>we took that report on the fourteenth as an information only.

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<v Speaker 2>The next one that we have and these are the

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<v Speaker 2>only two actual reports that we have where citizens actually

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<v Speaker 2>reported to us thing, and that is the man who

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<v Speaker 2>on the tent. He was today at a stop sign

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<v Speaker 2>and and a man approached his window and said who

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<v Speaker 2>was open carrying? And said, you know you don't, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't need to be here, you should leave, and the

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<v Speaker 2>man and then the driver that he wasn't standing in

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<v Speaker 2>front of the vehicle. He didn't point the gun at

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<v Speaker 2>the man. He stepped away from the car, and the

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<v Speaker 2>man turned left and left the and left Lincoln Heights,

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<v Speaker 2>and that happened on the tent. After the man talked

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<v Speaker 2>to the reporter who he just named, he went up

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<v Speaker 2>to this man who was in the car. He went

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<v Speaker 2>up to our Sycamore Township location and filed a report

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday at like four point thirty in the afternoon. So

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<v Speaker 2>that was then, you know that what got routed to

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<v Speaker 2>our CIS division, which is our Crew Middal Investigation Division,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's already been assigned to a detective to investigate.

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<v Speaker 2>And those are the two reports we have. And literally,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you know, the thing that is alleged to

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<v Speaker 2>be something that was a complaint was filed last night

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<v Speaker 2>at four point thirty in the evening.

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<v Speaker 1>If somebody would drive. I talked to another inchoir reporter

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<v Speaker 1>other than Ferrara, who told me that there are armed

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<v Speaker 1>men standing on street corners with semi aimatic weapons. May

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<v Speaker 1>I say, that's not illegal just to stand there. We're

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<v Speaker 1>an open carry state. However, it is illegal to point

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<v Speaker 1>the gun at somebody in order them to do something

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<v Speaker 1>that could be kidnapping, could be inducing panic, could be

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<v Speaker 1>impersonating a police officer. The one report was that the

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<v Speaker 1>man and the photos in the inquir story from a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of days previous It looks rather intimidating to have

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<v Speaker 1>armed men pointing rifles at citizens. Fact in the story

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<v Speaker 1>it says maybe maybe a report it wasn't filed that

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<v Speaker 1>in the Wendy's drive through some of these armed men

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<v Speaker 1>who are defending Lincoln Ice would walk up to someone

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<v Speaker 1>in the drive through and point a weapon in the

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<v Speaker 1>direction of somebody waiting for their hamburger. Have you gotten

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<v Speaker 1>a report on that one?

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<v Speaker 2>I have not. I have not. Bill. I'm telling you,

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<v Speaker 2>we do not have anything in writing. We have no

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<v Speaker 2>one calling our districts or calling us to allege any

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<v Speaker 2>of that happening. Our deputy did respond to a call

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<v Speaker 2>to come to Wendy's. He spoke to the manager there,

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<v Speaker 2>and the manager asked him, what are these men who

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<v Speaker 2>on carrying weapons? And our deputy said, well, it's open carry.

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<v Speaker 2>And just like with the neo Nazis, the Ohio legislature

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<v Speaker 2>has an open carry for Ohio. We cannot go and

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<v Speaker 2>arrest anyone for open carry. And that is what the

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<v Speaker 2>manager said to our deputy. He didn't tell our deputy

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<v Speaker 2>that anybody was pointing a weapon. None of that was alligated.

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<v Speaker 2>We have none of that on paper. If somebody has

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<v Speaker 2>a picture of it, please send it to us. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, these are things that in the police world.

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<v Speaker 2>In the cop world, we write it down, We write

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<v Speaker 2>down times, we write down places, and the deputy said

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<v Speaker 2>when he talked to the Wendy's manager, the Wendy's manager said, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to ask the question.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, as far as what message, as the chief law

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<v Speaker 1>enforcement officer of Hamlin A County, would you send to

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<v Speaker 1>residents of Lincoln Heights or the area that would dress

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<v Speaker 1>up looking like police. They have emblems. One of the times,

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<v Speaker 1>according to the inquiry reporter, he said, we are the police,

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<v Speaker 1>and that standing on street corners is one thing. Pointing

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<v Speaker 1>a rifle at somebody, it's like almost a kidnapping charge.

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<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, what message would you send to

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<v Speaker 1>those who continue to continue to do this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff in Lincoln Heights.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, I would like to I would

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<v Speaker 2>like to differentiate between an allegation and an actual provable fact.

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<v Speaker 2>We have no evidence that that happened other than someone

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<v Speaker 2>saying it happened. Again, if we have a picture, if

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<v Speaker 2>we have an actual report a street of something for

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<v Speaker 2>us to go investigate deputies have been called to certain

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<v Speaker 2>areas and when they get there, they observe a man

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<v Speaker 2>standing with an open carry. And what the message to everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>not just Lincoln Heights, but everyone. Look, law enforcement is

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<v Speaker 2>being as absolutely transparent about this and as anybody can,

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<v Speaker 2>right because there are certain things that are under investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>But every department that's been involved in this has released

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<v Speaker 2>body cam, has addressed public people, have addressed public meetings.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we're all working to push out this information

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<v Speaker 2>to vilify the police, any police, any police officer, to

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<v Speaker 2>vilify that person because that officer has not been given

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<v Speaker 2>the tools by the Ohio state legislators to do something

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<v Speaker 2>to make arrest in those situations, to confront people for IDs,

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<v Speaker 2>which we can't demand an ID. We can't do the

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<v Speaker 2>things that we would want to do. And I'm pleading

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<v Speaker 2>with everyone to you know what, there's no reason to

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<v Speaker 2>vilify police officers. I guarantee you no one was involved

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<v Speaker 2>with the Nazis. No one knew this was coming. I've

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<v Speaker 2>talked to numerous people, numerous chiefs all around Hamilton County.

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<v Speaker 2>Every one of us is outraged, Every officer is outraged,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm begging people to please keep your head about this. Look,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we're doing what we can. If there's any

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<v Speaker 2>way we can bring some of these men to justice

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<v Speaker 2>who were spewing all of that hate speech and so forth,

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<v Speaker 2>we will. But you know, there has to be a process.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care where we are or what department you're with.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a process in government to make things happen and

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<v Speaker 2>do things so you don't get sued, so people don't

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<v Speaker 2>get shot and so forth, and people aren't injured. And

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<v Speaker 2>our deputies and the officers that responded did everything they could,

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<v Speaker 2>everything they knew to do to de escalate, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>what we're trained for.

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<v Speaker 1>Sheriff McGuffey, do you have a specific person in Lincoln

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<v Speaker 1>Heights who's like a command or somebody in charge who's

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<v Speaker 1>physically present daily or is it something on a nine

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<v Speaker 1>to one one basis someone is sent there. Is there

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<v Speaker 1>like a sub station or sheriff's deputy sitting there day

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<v Speaker 1>by day or is it a nine to one one

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<v Speaker 1>call then you go there.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, our station is manned, and it is in

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<v Speaker 2>Lincoln Heights. It sits dead in Lincoln Heights, and it

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<v Speaker 2>is it's a substation of type. Right, But that's where

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<v Speaker 2>our officers are. Our patrol cars are there, our officers

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<v Speaker 2>are in and out of that building. It is very

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<v Speaker 2>very easy to be in Lincoln Heights and content at

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<v Speaker 2>a patrol officer if you're there, if you come to

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<v Speaker 2>the district, And those are things we encourage people to

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<v Speaker 2>do if they have a complaint or they can make

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<v Speaker 2>a call. One thing, I want to point out these

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<v Speaker 2>nine one one calls, and I know nine one wants

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<v Speaker 2>to be flooded with calls about men carrying weapons, men

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<v Speaker 2>standing on a street corner armed with a rifle, and

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<v Speaker 2>so forth. Look, you know, I have to tell people

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<v Speaker 2>and I have to point them in the right direction.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not the police. Those are your Ohio legislators that

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<v Speaker 2>need to make better gun safety laws and whatever they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to do. But as soon as they say it's

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<v Speaker 2>okay to open carry, I mean our hands are tied.

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<v Speaker 2>And I you know, whether you're a hate speech person

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<v Speaker 2>a Nazi, which is you know, I just can't even

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<v Speaker 2>say enough, how just disgusted I am with the Nazis

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<v Speaker 2>and what their messaging is and so forth. I'm disgusted.

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<v Speaker 2>But you can't differ centiate. You can't say, well, the

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<v Speaker 2>Nazis get to carry open carry and nobody else does. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not realistic. And if we want to change the

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<v Speaker 2>laws and we want to make this less of a

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<v Speaker 2>wildlff wess, the Ohio legislators need to get together, get

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<v Speaker 2>working and legislate this so that the police have some options.

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<v Speaker 1>So if someone in Lincoln Heights at a Wendy's drive

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<v Speaker 1>through has a person walking up to them appearing to

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<v Speaker 1>want to look like a police officer, the photo looks

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<v Speaker 1>like someone who might be a cop and wants to

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<v Speaker 1>question them, that person, assuming it doesn't happen in the

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<v Speaker 1>presence of a police officer, and most crime does not,

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<v Speaker 1>that person's got to file a complaint and say, essentially, academically,

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<v Speaker 1>that would be kidnapping. You can't point a gun at

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<v Speaker 1>somebody and say unless you do something, something else is

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<v Speaker 1>going to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct. Well, that's exactly right, Bill, That's exactly right. We

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<v Speaker 2>need to know. We need a report because we need time,

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<v Speaker 2>we need date, we need we need location, we need

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<v Speaker 2>any witnesses we need we need all of that information

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<v Speaker 2>so that we can follow this down. Listen, our officers

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<v Speaker 2>and deputies in Hamilton County are incredibly courageous. They put

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<v Speaker 2>themselves on the line every day, all day, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>asking the citizens to please respect that. I mean, we

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<v Speaker 2>can't run down just because somebody you know, calls you,

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<v Speaker 2>for instance, and says, hey, this happened to me, But

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<v Speaker 2>yet we have no record of it, we have no report,

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<v Speaker 2>we have no information. You know, it's ridiculous to think

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<v Speaker 2>that somehow we're responsible for not responding.

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<v Speaker 1>How about this one the incidents, there was an information

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<v Speaker 1>on only on the fourteenth, a woman in a car,

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<v Speaker 1>and that a man on the tenth, and last night

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<v Speaker 1>an inquiry reporter indirectly or directly filed a complaint about

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<v Speaker 1>the gunpointed at the reporter who's David Ferrera. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>what you mentioned earlier and at this point, and are

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<v Speaker 1>you going to thoroughly investigate these allegations of really crimes

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<v Speaker 1>committed by Lincoln Heights or others who appear to be police,

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<v Speaker 1>who point guns at people and say do something? Are

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<v Speaker 1>you going to actively investigate that over the next few days.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course I am, and I would do it whether

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<v Speaker 2>it was in Lincoln Heights or Sycamore Township or anywhere

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<v Speaker 2>else we patrol and every other police chief in this

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<v Speaker 2>arena would do the same. You know, if we get

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<v Speaker 2>a complaint which I have not seen or heard of

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<v Speaker 2>any complaint that this reporter filed saying that someone pointed

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<v Speaker 2>a gun at him, and I will, after this call,

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<v Speaker 2>promise you, I will call the supervisors and majors and

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<v Speaker 2>so forth and run this down to find out. But

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<v Speaker 2>before you talk to me on the phone, I made calls.

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<v Speaker 2>I talked to the lieutenant, the commander of Lincoln Heights.

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<v Speaker 2>I talked to other majors. What have we seen? What

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<v Speaker 2>has been reported? And the two things we just talked

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<v Speaker 2>about were the only things. No one has alligated that

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<v Speaker 2>a weapon has been Adam nobody.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, David Ferrara said that about two hours ago

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<v Speaker 1>and off the air. I'll send you a cell phone

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<v Speaker 1>number to expedite things. I have a text here from

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<v Speaker 1>a police officer who says, are you tracking down the

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<v Speaker 1>Neo Nazis because they used a U haul with a

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<v Speaker 1>license plate from I think Kentucky. Is that something across

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<v Speaker 1>state lines the FBI would do or is that something

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<v Speaker 1>Are you interested in identifying the Neo Nazis at all?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, I addressed all of that bill

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<v Speaker 2>in my press conference yesterday, and the purpose of the

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<v Speaker 2>press conference was to clarify those things for the public. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>there are certain things that we are allowed to do

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<v Speaker 2>by law. There are other things that I have asked

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<v Speaker 2>the county prosecutor to research and potentially investigate. I've talked

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<v Speaker 2>to the lead special officer in the FBI for the

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<v Speaker 2>Cincinnati Division and the Ohio Criminal Investigations of Bureau, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I have tentacles out to all those people,

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone's working in a legal way to do what

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<v Speaker 2>they can do. And you know, we're working with other

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<v Speaker 2>agencies that also track these hate crimes and so forth,

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<v Speaker 2>that aren't policing agencies, so that they can share their

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<v Speaker 2>information with us. Now, you know, that's the extent of

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<v Speaker 2>what we can do, and I made that very clear.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, once again I want to emphasize the

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<v Speaker 2>officers that respond to this were under extreme stress. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they were acting as they're trained to act, which is

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<v Speaker 2>to de escalate, get these men out of the area.

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<v Speaker 2>And again I call for people police stand down, do

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<v Speaker 2>not threaten our officers, don't do things that escalate this.

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<v Speaker 2>We're working as hard as we can, and there isn't

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<v Speaker 2>one person I've talked to in uniform that isn't you know,

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely on board. This was disgusting. It should never go on.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're going to absolutely train and be better, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and hopefully I don't know, you know. Be not surprised

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<v Speaker 2>is the way I should put it. Not surprised when

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<v Speaker 2>this happens again, and will orchestrate our response, and well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure it will.

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<v Speaker 1>I will. And lastly, you told me off there crime

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<v Speaker 1>is down seventy percent on Lincoln Heights. Is that correct?

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<v Speaker 1>So the last five to three or four, five, six,

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<v Speaker 1>seven years are the crime rates way down?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? It is. In twenty fifteen, and I have these

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<v Speaker 2>numbers prepared. We call it Part one, which is serious crimes, felonies, robberies, shootings, murders,

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<v Speaker 2>anything like that. There were one hundred and three that

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<v Speaker 2>were investigated and so forth in twenty fifteen, and now

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty four there are sixty six. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>reduction of about thirty five percent. For Part two crimes,

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<v Speaker 2>which are misdemeanors excluding traffic, which would be like disorderly conduct,

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<v Speaker 2>drug abuse, DUI, things like that. Uh, there were two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and sixty six that were investigated, and in fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty four there were one hundred and forty four.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a forty five percent reduction. And that is where

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<v Speaker 2>I get, you know, a conservative number of seventy percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Crime is down seventy percent in Lincoln Heights. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not only just due to the police officers, which are

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<v Speaker 2>doing a great job over there, all right, an excellent job,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's also the community that's cooperating. The community wants

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<v Speaker 2>crime down, and we've had great, great cooperation from the

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<v Speaker 2>Lincoln Heights mayor from their council. We feel very comfortable

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<v Speaker 2>talking to them, and you know they're helping with this

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<v Speaker 2>with a lot of youth initiatives and things like that. So, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>crime is down on Lincoln Heights.

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<v Speaker 1>Fine, we got to go, But Sheriff McGuffey, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'll share with you with his permission, the telephone

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<v Speaker 1>number of the reporter who had a gun pointed at him.

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<v Speaker 1>Also a guy named Jim Meister said that he lives

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<v Speaker 1>in Lincoln Heights. Say he tell us this person quote,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm calling the police, and that this person with the

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<v Speaker 1>gun the rifle pointed at him and said we are

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<v Speaker 1>the police, and so Jim Meister is another one. If

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<v Speaker 1>he will step forward, raise his hands, go okay, this

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<v Speaker 1>is what happened to me, This is who did it?

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<v Speaker 2>Away you go, yep, report it to us. It will

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<v Speaker 2>be investigated to the fullest, and if there has been

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<v Speaker 2>a crime committed, we will certainly prosecute that to its fullest.

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<v Speaker 1>Submit it to prosecutor's office and let's see what's happened

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<v Speaker 1>to rest here it out. Hopefully crime is also down,

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<v Speaker 1>but according to this reporter for the inquired, there have

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<v Speaker 1>been numerous examples of guns pointed at people. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna make you. I'll give you the number with his permission,

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<v Speaker 1>and then if that happens away we go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, Bill, and thank you very much. And in

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<v Speaker 2>my appeal to the public, please make that clear, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>give us a chance, give us some room. Are people

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<v Speaker 2>that are wearing that uniform, they're people too, they have feelings,

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<v Speaker 2>they're working hard, they work day and night. They're doing

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<v Speaker 2>the right things.

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<v Speaker 1>So thank you very much, Sheriff McGuffey, thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 1>God bless you. Thank you very much. But let's continue

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<v Speaker 1>with more news is next at Rome of the Reds

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<v Speaker 1>News radio seven hundred WLW