Speaker 1: So my boy, David Shabbaz, what's up, man?
Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on? Jeral good to be on here
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: He's the the author of Black Gold. What's up? What's
Speaker 1: up about that?
Speaker 2: Well, that was actually just a that was actually just
Speaker 2: one of the headlines. The actual title of the book
Speaker 2: is Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions write.
Speaker 1: Down Pro Wrestling Black World Champions, Got You, Got You?
Speaker 2: Got You?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I saw, I'm saying, it's such a people
Speaker 1: like to you know, get into a gain to them,
Speaker 1: like this specific topic about black So yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: it's very cool. I saw your press release for the book,
Speaker 1: so yeah, not that right.
Speaker 2: This is the third edition. Yes, yes, the original came
Speaker 2: out in two thousand and nine, and it was a
Speaker 2: small publication. As you can probably imagine, there were very
Speaker 2: few Black World Champions at that time, and so it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's grown over the years, which is good
Speaker 2: for our people.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, like how many? How many? Like on
Speaker 1: top of your head, do you think Black World Champions
Speaker 1: were back in two nine? You had because this before this,
Speaker 1: before Mark Henry Watch, you know, I guess it become
Speaker 1: the ECW championed count that one W championship.
Speaker 2: That was kind of a like an asterisk because it
Speaker 2: wasn't the true e c W.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's it's debatable. It's depatabule.
Speaker 2: At that time, it wasn't. It wasn't. Well, I understand
Speaker 2: what you're saying, and that's why it was kind of
Speaker 2: included because but it wasn't the independent e c W
Speaker 2: federation at that time. It was owned by w w E.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, so would it count if let's
Speaker 1: let's say it's that e c W. Let's say it
Speaker 1: was the w c W championship that Mark Honey one, right, well,
Speaker 1: it's still count or.
Speaker 2: You're talking about under w W E. Yah, under Night War.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if Mark any won that championship, it.
Speaker 2: Still would have it still would have carried what we
Speaker 2: considered an asterisk. I mean, but yes, he was listed
Speaker 2: in that in that publication.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, cool, cool, cool. So so we'll
Speaker 1: get more to that. So just real quick, tell you
Speaker 1: about yourself or who you are.
Speaker 2: Uh, David Shabaz, I'm a uh scholar, I'm a college professor.
Speaker 2: I'm a scholar of sports and sports communication. So I'm
Speaker 2: not you know, some people say I'm a historian. I'm
Speaker 2: not really a historian. I'm a scholar. They're there are
Speaker 2: people out there who know much more uh, statistics and
Speaker 2: all about you know, professional wrestling than I do. I'm
Speaker 2: not particularly a fan in the true sense of the word,
Speaker 2: because fan is short for fanatic. Yes, not a fanatic.
Speaker 2: I don't dress up in costumes. I don't watch every
Speaker 2: episode of professional wrestling. I've been watching professional wrestling throughout
Speaker 2: my life, but I don't watch the Independence. I don't
Speaker 2: watch every episode of NXT. I don't watch that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what that's the difference with me. That's why I say, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan per se, because I don't watch
Speaker 2: just to watch. If it doesn't entertain me, if it
Speaker 2: doesn't have somebody that I like, I'm gonna flip the
Speaker 2: channel and watch something else.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, that's crazy. I was gonna actally later on,
Speaker 1: like you watch the local in the pen and stuff.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I got well real quick. I got a text for
Speaker 1: my boy Russ saw to him the mand Space podcast.
Speaker 1: He told me something about what you talked me about.
Speaker 1: It's a pc W show in Canada, South Carolina. And
Speaker 1: then he has his on his eyes, very cooped potential.
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, so I guess we won't get too
Speaker 1: independent stuff cool. What's it called? Real quick? But you
Speaker 1: said you said you're two things. You said that you're
Speaker 1: professor at the college. We call it just that.
Speaker 2: Uh well, it's a it's a midwestern university. I'd rather
Speaker 2: not say the name of the school.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, And and uh you're a live from Kentucky, right, yes,
Speaker 1: I bet bet. I just want to get that clear
Speaker 1: right now, all right, huh.
Speaker 2: Clues, but I just don't want to say the name
Speaker 2: of the university, right.
Speaker 1: Got you? Got you? I respect that, respect that, okay, okay?
Speaker 1: But uh so, so you said that you're not a
Speaker 1: historic You're not You're not uh was not a history
Speaker 1: you're Scott yes, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Well, this, this particular publication goes back to my brother.
Speaker 2: My brother Julian was the one who was this publication
Speaker 2: and and those of you maybe familiar with him. He
Speaker 2: was basically the scholar historian of black professional wrestlers. He
Speaker 2: wrote Black Stars of Professional Wrestling back in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: This was before there was all of these podcasts and
Speaker 2: all of this focusing on black professional wrestlers. He was
Speaker 2: the one that was doing that, and this was his
Speaker 2: publication originally, and when he passed in twenty twenty, I
Speaker 2: updated his book back in twenty twenty two, which was
Speaker 2: the second edition, and the industry of course has grown
Speaker 2: and has recognized the talents and the marketability, I should say,
Speaker 2: of more black wrestlers. And so this one is the
Speaker 2: third edition and it's really more a mind which has
Speaker 2: uh some scholarship in it as well.
Speaker 1: Got you, got you?
Speaker 2: Got you?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, what got you into wrestling in the first place?
Speaker 1: Like how not not a fan, but what got you
Speaker 1: interrestling in the first place? And not a fanatic? But
Speaker 1: like what got you interrestling?
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I've watched what watch professional wrestling
Speaker 2: my entire life. My family grew up watching professional wrestling,
Speaker 2: So that's something that's always been a part of me.
Speaker 1: So pretty much by by relation, right by by through
Speaker 1: your family. I mean that's kind of how I got
Speaker 1: thro rustling too, Like my sisters like low key force
Speaker 1: it on me. But yeah, well I got two older sisters,
Speaker 1: so yeah, and so yeah that's how I got into rustling. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: uh so let's just to start with your brother. He
Speaker 1: started this and he took up from there. So why
Speaker 1: is it so important the catalog? Not only well, I'll
Speaker 1: say you, why is it so important to the catalog,
Speaker 1: especially black world champions.
Speaker 2: Well, because there's so few. And the whole thing about
Speaker 2: being a champion itself, and a black champion, it goes
Speaker 2: back to it's a reflection of all of the struggles
Speaker 2: that black people have had to go through, especially we
Speaker 2: talk about African Americans in this particular, in this society,
Speaker 2: we have always had the struggle and always had to
Speaker 2: fight harder and always had to prove ourselves. Because professional wrestling,
Speaker 2: which is different from amateur or Olympic wrestling. If you're
Speaker 2: pure wrestling, will it's not just about your or talent
Speaker 2: because it's not competition based. People are looking at other
Speaker 2: aspects like your character and your presentation and your marketability.
Speaker 2: Can you put butts in the seats? You know, there's
Speaker 2: so many different factors that they look at before they
Speaker 2: put the belt on you, because there was so many
Speaker 2: people before that they considered but never got the actual belt.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. And what yeah, what it means to be
Speaker 1: the world champion?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: It means like especially because you know, like no, like
Speaker 1: the modern wrestling is no scripted, right, what it means
Speaker 1: to be the world champion, It means that that there
Speaker 1: that that that the company as a whole. They want
Speaker 1: you to be the face of it. They want you
Speaker 1: they want to market the company after you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: So, uh you are you are the face of the company.
Speaker 2: The frantic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They they are very selective about anybody who they put own,
Speaker 2: but definitely when it comes to being uh you know,
Speaker 2: somebody black, it's it's all. It's very tough.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm okay, okay, so real quick right before a
Speaker 1: gain more into that. Uh so, so what other like
Speaker 1: books of projects have worked for written?
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, this is the fourth. I wrote Public Enemy
Speaker 2: number one back in which was actually it started off
Speaker 2: as my master's thesis, which was looking at public Enemy
Speaker 2: at the time. This was like in the early nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2: And uh, Dolomite the Story of Rudy Ray Moore. My
Speaker 2: brother and I wrote that publication back around nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 2: and that was the very first book and probably the
Speaker 2: only book that has been written on Rudy Ray Moore.
Speaker 2: So at the time. We got a lot of publicity
Speaker 2: from that one in twenty nineteen. It was a very
Speaker 2: slow start in the beginning because everybody, everybody knew Dolomite,
Speaker 2: and they knew the especially him from the hip hop community.
Speaker 2: Everybody in rap was sampling him, so everybody knew about him,
Speaker 2: and people culturally in the black culture know about him,
Speaker 2: but it was kind of like taboo to talk about
Speaker 2: him because he had not transitioned at that time, like
Speaker 2: Red Fox, Richard Pryor, and even Eddie Murphy himself, so
Speaker 2: you know, him still being he had not made these
Speaker 2: g rated television shows and other things where people saw
Speaker 2: him in a different light. So it came, you know,
Speaker 2: nobody really wanted to touch it and deal with it
Speaker 2: until Eddie put out the twenty nineteen mainstream movie on Netflix. Okay,
Speaker 2: now he's got this legitimacy and everybody's talking about it now,
Speaker 2: and we being the only ones who had wrote the
Speaker 2: book on him. CNN USA Today, other major media outlets
Speaker 2: had contacted us for interviews because they wanted to know
Speaker 2: if the story was real, and yes it was, that
Speaker 2: was a true biography.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, real quick, right, what can we find can
Speaker 1: we find your own writing?
Speaker 2: Everything is on my website, uh, davids dot com. Uh,
Speaker 2: certainly through webs Amazon and all of those places.
Speaker 1: All right, so just type of your name right on Amazon,
Speaker 1: So David L. Shabban's D A B I D of
Speaker 1: course L A B A z z type of Amazon
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Or just go to w W David L.
Speaker 1: Shabaz dot com.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, Uh, let's correct you though, brother, it's
Speaker 2: pronounced your bars. But because it's recorded, when people keep
Speaker 2: hearing it wrong, I have to correct it.
Speaker 1: No harm, got you got well in my defense, right,
Speaker 1: jazz is still pronounced jazz, but.
Speaker 2: It's not an American. So that's what is that?
Speaker 1: Was that your what was that your birth name? What
Speaker 1: do you take?
Speaker 2: What like a like a that's that's my name?
Speaker 1: Okay? Okay, like is it like tything, muslim thing? Or
Speaker 1: just got you got you? Got you? Got you? Okay?
Speaker 1: All right, Salama like them my brother got you got
Speaker 1: you okay? Uh, but everybody, well quick write this quick
Speaker 1: plug touch my boy David on Amazon. Also going to
Speaker 1: David dot com. Besides your books, wells Creed, besides your writing,
Speaker 1: well S Creed fin on the website.
Speaker 2: Well, that website is just about books. So that's that's it.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, uh, But but but you have anything, you
Speaker 1: have any other parties coming up in their future?
Speaker 2: Well, right now, my hands are full with this one.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I'm a I'm a full time
Speaker 2: college professor, so I don't really have you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of time. I'm just on the circuit right now
Speaker 2: with this book.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so we just find it real quick, forgive me.
Speaker 1: Everybody has a lot of material to them through. But
Speaker 1: you were talking about, especially back in the day, Well
Speaker 1: we were talking about, especially back in the day, what
Speaker 1: it would have meant to be, like you know what
Speaker 1: like a black world champion or a champion in general, right,
Speaker 1: but especially a black world champion. That means like the
Speaker 1: companies will make you, will make you the face of
Speaker 1: their company and so like, especially for you know, African Americans, right,
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's very challenging to even get that,
Speaker 1: to get that far right. So, like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find the email you sent the press release, because you
Speaker 1: do a credit like you know, people like I don't
Speaker 1: want I don't want to misquote you find the actual
Speaker 1: information that you uh that I've read. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you right here, right here, yeah you I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find oh yeah yeah, because you right here your credit
Speaker 1: people like Buddy Rogers, the Rock and Roll Express who
Speaker 1: supported the rights of black wrestlers. So I guess I
Speaker 1: guess what I'm trying to get to is like, so
Speaker 1: like like who you like? Who you are credit for?
Speaker 1: No helping you know, the rise and successful You know
Speaker 1: African Americans come up in wrestling.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's and those are through different periods.
Speaker 2: Nature Boy, Buddy Rogers, he had several matches with Sailor R. Thomas,
Speaker 2: one of the Four Runners. He held a world title
Speaker 2: in the World Wrestling Alliance and the w w A,
Speaker 2: which had broken away from the n w A. At
Speaker 2: the time, the n w A was the you know,
Speaker 2: the big major corporation, and they had broken away and
Speaker 2: had their own what they call the world title, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't really truly a world title. But Nature Boy, Buddy,
Speaker 2: why why not?
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 2: Because when you talk world, you're talking about you. You're
Speaker 2: traveling and defending the title throughout the world, not just
Speaker 2: the United States.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, well, fair point, but okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you were saying.
Speaker 2: Though Buddy Rogers had matches with Sailor or Thomas, several matches.
Speaker 2: At the time, white wrestlers were, especially in the South,
Speaker 2: were banned from wrestling against blacks. So that's why you
Speaker 2: credit somebody like Buddy Rogers because he wasn't afraid to
Speaker 2: go into the ring. Uh, he was taking the risk himself.
Speaker 2: But it was making big money.
Speaker 1: But if he was, if he was banned, how was
Speaker 1: he able to wrestle in anyways? It was a banned.
Speaker 2: They didn't wrestle in the South, Okay, Okay, Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's the Deep South where only black wrestlers could could
Speaker 2: wrestle against each other. But other about the country, like Wood,
Speaker 2: he strolled one of the very first people wrestling. They
Speaker 2: were out in California and other places, just not the
Speaker 2: Deep South.
Speaker 1: Got you, got you, got you okay, okay. And this
Speaker 1: would have been like the like mid like ur mid nineties.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, we're talking nineteen forties, nineteen fifties.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so wild so even I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: know we have so brights still back in the sixties seventies,
Speaker 1: but to think that, you know, there's still like element
Speaker 1: of racism even like in the nineteen hundreds in the
Speaker 1: wrestling industry is still kind of that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, that's what makes that's what makes the
Speaker 2: publication so significant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, who else you have here? Uh? You
Speaker 1: have here the rock and Roll Express? How did they
Speaker 1: support the rising and stuff like that?
Speaker 2: For black wrestlers, The Rock and Roll Express were really
Speaker 2: significant in helping the gangsters. Have you heard of the Gangster?
Speaker 2: I have, Yes, I have in Smoky Mountain Wrestling. That's
Speaker 2: where they were really significant in helping them out.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. The only reason why because I'm a huge
Speaker 1: Fansion Cornett and so yes, so so yeah, shoutut to
Speaker 1: he real quick. Okay, but yeah, but going going about
Speaker 1: that a little bit more, how did so so? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So you're saying the Rock and Roll Express worked a
Speaker 1: lot with the with the gangsters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they helped really get over And I mean if
Speaker 2: people you know, all of that is detailed in the book,
Speaker 2: how they really helped Nu Jack and Mustafa or get
Speaker 2: over and.
Speaker 1: Learn rest in peace. New Jackie died like the last
Speaker 1: a year or two ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have heard of recently the Nation of Domination.
Speaker 2: That's an offshoot of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1: Oh really, mm hmmm, I did not see it that way.
Speaker 2: Nothing. That's that's they copied everybody. The people copied other groups.
Speaker 2: And Delo Brown was once a member of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, I mean you know more than me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, we're like, I'm from a different generation. So yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's fine.
Speaker 2: That's that's that's that's the purpose of the book. All
Speaker 2: of that is detailed in that.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate it. I appreci your school and me
Speaker 1: I appreciate this, Like, don't teach me.
Speaker 2: Some sa So yeah, we each other.
Speaker 1: Real quick, give us a give us, give us like
Speaker 1: a like a preview of the book, you know, like
Speaker 1: what we expect, you know what mission it's different to
Speaker 1: to learn stuff like that. Look like like a little
Speaker 1: snap pre of the book.
Speaker 2: Well you've got you've got several of the black wrestlers
Speaker 2: who won the title. And there have been a lot
Speaker 2: these days, and this is the singles titles. There are
Speaker 2: a lot more black females who have the title. And
Speaker 2: one thing that's really different about this particular addition, because
Speaker 2: they are more females in there as well. The black
Speaker 2: tag teams are also also profile in this particular edition,
Speaker 2: going back to the Soul Patrol, which is Tony Atlas
Speaker 2: and Rocky Johnson the rocks Father.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so what could before I get in to
Speaker 1: listen to a question? Another question myself? Real quick pop quiz.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many Black World Champions there are
Speaker 1: in history?
Speaker 2: How many Black World Champions there are in history?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well that's that's that's in the book.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So I might read the book to find out.
Speaker 2: We're Yeah, I can't give away everything.
Speaker 1: Brother, you got the ol G. You got it all right?
Speaker 1: Bet so? So so okay, bet bet bet okay, bet so.
Speaker 1: I guess that's a nice secret to listen to a
Speaker 1: listen of questions. So for those who are from the
Speaker 1: show right now, I have a hotline nine one seven
Speaker 1: two eight three ninety five six. You can text little
Speaker 1: voicemail or calling live to give your comments or questions.
Speaker 1: I have quite a few right here. I even have
Speaker 1: some even now as recording. People still texting me stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So they want to ask you this. One
Speaker 1: person asks, do you follow the current wrestling product if
Speaker 1: Soler promotions?
Speaker 2: Well, I watch a E W and w.
Speaker 1: W E okay, and I assume that's pretty much it, right,
Speaker 1: No New Japan, no chiple A. That's just those two writers.
Speaker 2: Well only the ones that are that are showcased on
Speaker 2: those particular shows, the ones that they have partnerships because
Speaker 2: New Japan has partnership with A.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you want to watch it by extension
Speaker 1: if it's like you know, okay, okay, oh it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I didn't, I keep it getting he's holding that. Speaking
Speaker 1: of black champions, what'st of the name of the NX champion?
Speaker 1: That was the name again? I forgot, I lost, I
Speaker 1: want oh no, no, I was saying, I forgot. It's
Speaker 1: actually a NXT so on tonight heat wave. I think
Speaker 1: it's tonight going on right now. Iron enough, he's a
Speaker 1: black champ. He's a black champion. I forgot. His name
Speaker 1: is African guy with his name over fed me? Yes? Yes,
Speaker 1: so south of them watching that, I'm done with you
Speaker 1: watch that check real quick. Also had let's have the
Speaker 1: ABU show on today, which I didn't see either, but
Speaker 1: I get a chance of looking at that look kind
Speaker 1: of good. Okay, okay, uh, this person acts, hold on this,
Speaker 1: this person acts, what about M M A or other
Speaker 1: or other combat sports.
Speaker 2: Uh do you like? I guess yeah, uh not really
Speaker 2: really not really Again, I'm in I'm an old school guy,
Speaker 2: and things really have to I have to like the
Speaker 2: person that has to really be attractive to me. I
Speaker 2: hadn't watched it since Ken Shamrock and Dan to b
Speaker 2: Severn and those guys. Yeah, no offense guys, long time.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, and if you and if you don't
Speaker 2: have the charisma that those guys had, I'm not watching
Speaker 2: dang man. I'm just not a fan. Like fans watch
Speaker 2: everything and everybody that's not me.
Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you, I hear you. This
Speaker 1: One person asks, w W E or a.
Speaker 2: W uh w w E has a better overall product,
Speaker 2: but ae W is is gaining some ground. I like
Speaker 2: some of the things that ae W does, but a
Speaker 2: E W still still is kind of in the minor
Speaker 2: leagues in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm okay, okay, okay, bring good question. This person asks,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the current wrestling product?
Speaker 2: Well, it's uh, it has some bright spots. I mean
Speaker 2: I certainly, I certainly follow it, I certainly keep up
Speaker 2: with it. I think a E W is bringing a
Speaker 2: lot of competition, and that's what w w E really needed.
Speaker 2: They needed that competition. I just want I want ae
Speaker 2: W to raise their profile a little bit more or
Speaker 2: they seem to be kind of taking on the slot
Speaker 2: that w c W had to a certain extent, and
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot more character to them that
Speaker 2: they can uh bring out without necessarily copying the w
Speaker 2: w E per se. But I do kind of think
Speaker 2: you you need to follow what the big juggernaut is doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I'll get I'll ask more questions from the
Speaker 1: audience later on. But I've been thinking about something you
Speaker 1: said earlier, which has to be thinking. So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to see how to phrase this. So I guess so
Speaker 1: you said earlier. You said earlier, Right, it has to
Speaker 1: be depended across the world to be considered a world champion,
Speaker 1: a world championship. Right. I was gonna mentioned like Sasha Bangs,
Speaker 1: but I lost track of how many she has right now,
Speaker 1: something will like mentioned her. But I'll give I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example. This example represents pretty much like my
Speaker 1: entire point that I'm trying to act the NXT Championship, right,
Speaker 1: that's this example of my overall point. Do you consider
Speaker 1: that world championship? No, because it's not dependent across the world.
Speaker 2: Right, No, n w w E does not consider that
Speaker 2: a world championship. N NEXT is still that developmental territory.
Speaker 2: It just happens to be televised, but that's the developmental territory.
Speaker 1: But okay, but see now it's televised, right, so it
Speaker 1: has a world ride reach, so it doesn't count. No, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, okay, w w.
Speaker 2: E does not consider that a world titled.
Speaker 1: I mean w w E like they consider stuff. They say,
Speaker 1: what is it, what isn't? Based on what's convenient at
Speaker 1: that time, so you know, yeah, but okay, that's.
Speaker 2: A good point by that.
Speaker 1: So so so so sometimes the NXT Championship counts, right,
Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes sometimes it's developmental, sometimes it's.
Speaker 2: Third brand, you know, when does it count?
Speaker 1: Well? So okay, so you know how, I'll give you example, right,
Speaker 1: uh uh Well recently, right, Charlotte Flair was and Lex
Speaker 1: were listening. We're listening their accomplishments, right, and she brought
Speaker 1: up that she's a certain how many time champions and
Speaker 1: she counted the nc NT championships, right, But at the
Speaker 1: same time, Right, you have Sammy's a former NXT champion,
Speaker 1: right and up until up until La Russelmena thirty which
Speaker 1: one was it thirty thirty nine, he never won a
Speaker 1: championship on the main roster. And they've been saying that, oh,
Speaker 1: he's been champion, but I saw much champion in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: so he's sold. I'm saying he counts.
Speaker 2: When counts, I think I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Counts.
Speaker 2: It does count when it comes to the titles that
Speaker 2: you have when you talk about being a triple crown
Speaker 2: champion or a Grand Slam champion, but not a though
Speaker 2: it's not a world title. Because when you talk about
Speaker 2: who's a triple crown, if they won the Intercontinental Championship,
Speaker 2: a Tag Team Championship, and the world title, then that's
Speaker 2: a triple crown. And the NXT was one of those,
Speaker 2: then that can be a Grand Slam because they won
Speaker 2: four and they'll count the NNT as a championship, but
Speaker 2: it's not a world champion.
Speaker 1: But they've been to other countries, they've been next they
Speaker 1: they've been like, they've been to Canada, they've been to Japan,
Speaker 1: they've been there. No, we still know they've been to Austria,
Speaker 1: they've been, they've been around the world.
Speaker 2: That what you're saying. But it's not a world title.
Speaker 2: It's a championship, but it's not a world title.
Speaker 1: Okay, I know, I know you don't really follow in these, right,
Speaker 1: but no I do, especially right here in New York City. Right,
Speaker 1: you have One Division Pro, you have LPW and all
Speaker 1: kinds of places, and real quick shout to Jared Diaz.
Speaker 1: He's the current one Division Pro champion. And myself right
Speaker 1: and the people on One Division Pro, we we not
Speaker 1: only try to market him as a world champion, but
Speaker 1: we demonstrate that by having him go to Mexico and
Speaker 1: go to Europe and all the world. And so would
Speaker 1: you count and so this is the truth? Think we
Speaker 1: because I work I keep seeing we because I worked
Speaker 1: with them for a little bit. So we would send
Speaker 1: we would send jaredy not only over the country, but
Speaker 1: we sent to We sent them to Europe, and we
Speaker 1: sent them to Japan, and we send them to them
Speaker 1: whoever else around the world. Right, would you count that
Speaker 1: as a world champion because we're sending all the world
Speaker 1: to defend it. Would you count championship?
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's not up to me. It's what the
Speaker 2: promotion considers a world title. Okay, okay, that's that's not
Speaker 2: up to Okay.
Speaker 1: Well all right, right, Well I consider the One Division
Speaker 1: Pro Championship World Championship. I also consider the LPW Championship
Speaker 1: world Championship because only King, the former champion, was depending
Speaker 1: in Japan an overplaced, so shouting him for that, Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So it's like so based on we're just saying, right,
Speaker 1: it's not only like where they defend it or where
Speaker 1: they will feature it, but also if the company treats
Speaker 1: it like a world championship.
Speaker 2: I don't understand your point. I'm just what you're saying,
Speaker 2: but I don't.
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking I'm asking you like the world I'm
Speaker 1: I'm asking you so so we can agree on so
Speaker 1: according to you what you're saying, right, it depends on
Speaker 1: the cow the champion, and I'm not promotion how treats
Speaker 1: it right, how they treat it, That's that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Would I be wrong? When I be like wrong?
Speaker 1: Is saying that? Okay? It's uh, let's say the intercon champion, right,
Speaker 1: the inter icy champion right, Well, I thought that's the
Speaker 1: bad example. That's a bad example. So of course you
Speaker 1: the criteria is that the company has to technowledge it
Speaker 1: as the world championship. Mm hmm okay, and they also
Speaker 1: have and also they have to defend it across the world.
Speaker 1: That's what you're saying too, right, yes, so those are
Speaker 1: two criterias, okay for to be that you consider for
Speaker 1: the world chap to be a world championship, got you? Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, so I guess okay, so cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1: I guess that's just trying to clear up. Let's give
Speaker 1: us some mister questions. I got some from my boy
Speaker 1: Chris Fleming shot at him regular to call him. He
Speaker 1: asks here at the hotline, what or how has the
Speaker 1: wrestling business changed from the old to the new?
Speaker 2: Cool? You guys have some have some nice broad questions there,
Speaker 2: because that's that's wide open. It's it's I wish it
Speaker 2: was a little more specific there, but I mean it's
Speaker 2: it's it's changed. And uh, I mean how far back
Speaker 2: in the day from the territories. Certainly television change wrestling itself.
Speaker 2: When you look at the popularity of the sport, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's got a major following now. I mean
Speaker 2: we're talking we're talking billions of dollars. W W is
Speaker 2: like eight billion dollars in a W is like like
Speaker 2: two billions something like that. I mean, so it's, uh,
Speaker 2: it's it's huge these days.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I guess this last question. I could ask,
Speaker 1: and by ways Closten, he acts or he or she
Speaker 1: don't know who this is, but this person acts. What
Speaker 1: the differences or what transitions do you foresee with today's talent?
Speaker 2: What ask that again? What transitions do I see with
Speaker 2: today's talent?
Speaker 1: What differences or what transitions do you foresee with today's talent?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's kind of that's kind of predictive. It
Speaker 2: will put me into more of a wizard's kind of position.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't I can't really foresee where the
Speaker 2: talent is going. I like educated guests, old school talent.
Speaker 2: I would like for them to be I would like
Speaker 2: for the new people to be more like the old
Speaker 2: school talent. And by that that's what I mean by
Speaker 2: I don't just watch the show just to watch it.
Speaker 2: People could back in the day, they could cut promos
Speaker 2: and you enjoyed it, not even wrestling in the ring.
Speaker 2: They knew how to build a feud with another person
Speaker 2: promoted in the ring against each other. And that's what
Speaker 2: I'm seeing. I want people to understand the Rock was
Speaker 2: an old school artist. He knew that gift of the gap.
Speaker 2: He knew how to talk and how to build a
Speaker 2: feud before he got into the fight with the person.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to see. I can't say I
Speaker 2: foresee that happening. I would love for that to happen.
Speaker 2: I would love for those the new talent to study
Speaker 2: the older talent and be able to draw people in
Speaker 2: just by what you're saying. That is something that Dusty
Speaker 2: Rhodes was good about. That's something that Air was good about.
Speaker 2: You know, they could talk and that's what made the difference.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, I think that's everything we got
Speaker 1: for now. Real quick, plugs your website w w w
Speaker 1: W dot w w W dot David dot com. Also
Speaker 1: just search also just search David la on uh what's
Speaker 1: it called? Uh? What was it? Amazon?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Bookstores?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, well, real quick, like with all the bookstores
Speaker 1: we found that like virtually or like or like in real.
Speaker 2: Life worldwide, every bookstore.
Speaker 1: Books, so Borns and Nobles, uh borders what every book
Speaker 1: still everybody? Okay? And online and in real life right yes, yes, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: bet but social media.
Speaker 2: All of that is still run through my website, but
Speaker 2: essentially at David Elschabas.
Speaker 1: Okay, uh so Twitter, Facebook, Instagram LinkedIn for him just
Speaker 1: in few okay, everybody, real quick check out, not just
Speaker 1: well check it out, like like literally check it out,
Speaker 1: check out. Get it from the store, however how you
Speaker 1: get it from? Right? What's in the book? What's in
Speaker 1: the book? Tell us tell you tell us Black Gold
Speaker 1: Discovering Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions, Volume three or through
Speaker 1: the dish has.
Speaker 2: To say what what's in the book?
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm saying, plug the book, Come on the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you want to learn about the
Speaker 2: history of the black professional wrestling champions who were world champions,
Speaker 2: it's all detailed in this book. The female chamampions are there,
Speaker 2: the tag team champions are there. That's what especially in
Speaker 2: this one unique. I also have a for the scholars
Speaker 2: out there. There's a rhetorical analysis that starts off with
Speaker 2: WrestleMania nineteen, the match between Triple H and Booker T
Speaker 2: and that particular promo was very controversial. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that that kind of sets the stage for what
Speaker 2: we're talking about and gives people an idea of what
Speaker 2: the black people have to go through to be a champion.
Speaker 1: So, so yeah, you cover people like bear Cat right,
Speaker 1: both Brazil, Ron Simmons, Mercedes, Monet Blanca, Bellaire, Jay Cargill.
Speaker 1: Who else you got? Naomi? He just gave it up.
Speaker 1: This snout recently quest lass her for her pregnancy. But
Speaker 1: real quick, right, you said that you that you only
Speaker 1: follow like w W A W Right. So so Mercedes especially, right,
Speaker 1: she has like multiple titles concurrently, right, So the New Japan, well,
Speaker 1: well I don't really know which ones they are, so dang,
Speaker 1: I gott look them up because all right, so do
Speaker 1: you count? So do you count? Not? I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about what she has right now, I'm talking saying in general,
Speaker 1: So do you count, for example, the New Japan Championship,
Speaker 1: World Championship? Do you count like the Triple A Championship?
Speaker 1: You count like atheists, not w W or A W.
Speaker 2: Yes, New Japan is definitely a world time.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, okay, Yeah, But the thing is right.
Speaker 1: You don't really follow. You don't really follow anything other
Speaker 1: than those A W W W, so like you could
Speaker 1: be missing. I mean, I'm not saying that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if they do or don't because I'm not super young,
Speaker 1: not as deep in the history as you are, but
Speaker 1: like seeing as we follow.
Speaker 2: When you when you say follow, I can follow them online.
Speaker 2: Now if you're talking about do I watch those shows? No,
Speaker 2: because I don't have access to watch those shows on TV,
Speaker 2: so I can't follow them like that when you say follow.
Speaker 1: But you still got you still got to be still
Speaker 1: do your still you do your due diligence, you still
Speaker 1: do your research, right, Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, Okay.
Speaker 2: What they don't show in your area?
Speaker 1: I mean, well, well as far as New Japan goals, right,
Speaker 1: New Japan World, it's like ten dollars a month.
Speaker 2: That's for fans.
Speaker 1: Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, got you, got you, got you?
Speaker 1: Got you? Do you did you ever watch? Did you
Speaker 1: ever like like watch or follow TEENA? Yes, I'm just curious. Okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I haven't watched ten years because they stopped showing it
Speaker 1: on my cable provider, they stop carrying on the right verizon.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, brother, I was saying earlier. I mean,
Speaker 2: you can't really watch what they don't what they don't show.
Speaker 2: They did have a YouTube, a presence on YouTube at
Speaker 2: one time, but that's.
Speaker 1: I gotta get the Somebody tell me how to watch
Speaker 1: t X look good stuff, the whole NXT partnership. I'm
Speaker 1: how to watch how to watch TEENA? Does like get
Speaker 1: the app or something?
Speaker 2: Now? No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I think that's everything. And last words we
Speaker 1: signed off.
Speaker 2: Again. I mean, if you want to know about the
Speaker 2: history of the Black Professional Rats, there's Champions World Champions,
Speaker 2: go out and get the book. It tells you everything
Speaker 2: about the singles champions as well as the tag team champions.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I get that book with quicks up playing,
Speaker 1: get that book. I'm I'm I'm gonna read it. I
Speaker 1: definitely want interested. I like, I like to read personally.
Speaker 1: I played like a little about history and a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I'm getting the book too. That's Black
Speaker 1: Gold Discovered Pro Wrestlings Black Champions, third Edition. It's everywhere, man,
Speaker 1: It's on Amazon. It's like it's like in little bookstores
Speaker 1: like Barnes and Nobles wherever you can go. Well, David L.
Speaker 1: Shabaz all right, checked out take out the website David
Speaker 1: Olshabas dot com. Thank you for the questions. I got
Speaker 1: a lot of them this time, so I appreciate you
Speaker 1: all listening Highlight now on seven five six W dot com.
Speaker 1: I think we're out of here by way right for
Speaker 1: if you were curious, right the reason why I'm not
Speaker 1: my dad, I'm on my bed because I have.
Speaker 2: A leg cramps.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to stretch my leg. I'll be alright. That's
Speaker 1: why I don't want to think I was like being
Speaker 1: like disrespectful whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't get a herd in the ring? Did you?
Speaker 1: Oh? Nah? Nah. It's funny too because I was just
Speaker 1: talking about that before before he came on. I was
Speaker 1: on the phone with a friend of mine and I
Speaker 1: was telling how I'm trying to get I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get mentically cleared, not not to rustle, but to be
Speaker 1: like a a what do you call it? Be featured
Speaker 1: on a on a promotion look look promotion in New
Speaker 1: York City. So yeah, ah, so they say too bad
Speaker 1: if you if you know more about me? What's going
Speaker 1: on for me? Social media? You already know what it is.
Speaker 1: It's not about me, thought my boy David Shabaz Instagram, uh, Twitter, Facebook,
Speaker 1: LinkedIn and it was just website again, David boss dot com.
Speaker 1: And get his book. Stop playing, get his book. It's
Speaker 1: good stuff, good stuff, a lot of a lot of now,
Speaker 1: a lot of knowledge could be dropped on you. So
Speaker 1: tat out real quick. All right man, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: take some leave, get something to eat and just relax
Speaker 1: and uh yeah man, I'm holler do good stuff. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: come on again some time.
Speaker 2: Love to love too. Thank you your your listeners as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, all right man, all right see