WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:03.799 Welcome back in Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo. 2 00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:04.320 And Lorenzo. 3 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:06.799 In this episode, I want to go over an article 4 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.839 that I found on the Forbes Leadership section about common 5 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.160 leadership problems that that leaders face when it comes to 6 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:18.440 their teams. And there are four different problems mentioned in 7 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.399 this article, and I don't think we can we can 8 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:23.120 cover all of them in a single episode, so I 9 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:25.440 want to do it over over the next few episodes 10 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:29.079 because I think that there it's important enough to really 11 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:31.640 dig into each one and not just kind of gloss 12 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:35.280 over anything or or or summarize the articles. I think 13 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.159 we have a lot of personal experience to add to 14 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.799 these things that can that can help the listeners. The 15 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:45.280 article is written by Sam Atayami. He's the CEO of 16 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:48.159 a leadership consultancy firm, and the article is just called 17 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.240 four common leadership problems and their Solutions. We'll put a 18 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.920 link to the article on the podcast description. But the 19 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:57.159 first of the four problems that the article talks about 20 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:00.560 is when your team isn't listening to each other. And 21 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.039 you know, when I when I think about this, I 22 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:05.879 think about the you know, my team isn't listening to 23 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:09.560 each other. You know. The the article kind of puts 24 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:12.040 it in the context of that, you know, hey, sometimes 25 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.040 people forget things after they've been told. It's hard to 26 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.560 remember a lot of stuff that you've been given or 27 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:22.480 downloaded to or or you know, summarized by a leader 28 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:25.319 by a team member to remember that over a long 29 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.879 period of time. And that's probably true. But the main 30 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.920 issue that I see when it comes to this is 31 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:36.239 if my team isn't listening to each other because they've 32 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:40.560 stopped put placing value on what someone else on the 33 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:43.359 team has said. And that, to me is the is 34 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.400 the deeper issue than just oh, I forgot something because 35 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:47.120 it's been too long. 36 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:48.719 Yeah, No, it's it's a great call. 37 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.319 And I think there's been a lot of dialogue around 38 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.519 like the art of active listening shout out to Heather 39 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:59.560 Younger and the importance of actual listening to understand versus 40 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:00.760 listening to respond. 41 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:02.200 But I think it's bigger than that. 42 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:04.480 I think I think this is much much bigger than that. 43 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:06.359 I think that you know and then talk to a 44 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:08.159 little bit about in the article, how do you identify 45 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:08.879 this behavior? 46 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:10.520 And while it's like. 47 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.719 There's moments when you can kind of watch or see 48 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:18.400 you know, who's paying attention maybe in a in a 49 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:22.439 meeting or in dialogue. I look for much bigger things, 50 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.479 like I'm looking for who's taking notes and and like that. 51 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:28.560 That's a really clear example of something that shows me 52 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:32.199 kind of an engagement of leadership. And when you're talking 53 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.360 about like your team versus like if you lead leaders 54 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:40.199 if you're in a formal setting, that's where I think 55 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:43.039 it's really important to set the ground rules and talk 56 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:45.319 through what does it look like to not just be 57 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:46.960 a great listener, but to make sure that we're getting 58 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:48.120 the right information. 59 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:48.960 To all of us. 60 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:53.680 And I think that we all talk on the podcast, 61 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:55.479 and you know, we share all the time how we 62 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:57.479 tend to write our notes down. And I carry a 63 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.000 journal with me and a notebook and a pendant pay 64 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:03.360 and I really do my best to role model that 65 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:06.879 and actually, you know, to give notebooks to people, give 66 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:09.960 pens to people, have that available when it comes to 67 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.039 meetings or things, because I think there's a different level 68 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.520 of attention when it comes to writing things down versus 69 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:19.000 typing them on technology. And again, sometimes it's all you 70 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:20.919 have is technology, and I take a ton of notes 71 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.800 on my phone or on my computer based upon the 72 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.840 scenario that I'm in. But I think that if you're 73 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.479 truly trying to go into the aspect of listening to 74 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.240 each other, I think that element of, you know, trying 75 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.439 to get away from technology that can create a lot 76 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:38.919 of distractions, and like, look, I'm not going to throw 77 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:41.560 stones from a glass house. Right when you have a 78 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:43.280 phone and you might be taking notes on a phone 79 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:45.599 or a computer, there's also email that pops up, There's 80 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:47.719 a notification that pops up, there's a text message that 81 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:50.439 pops up. There's plenty of things that happen when we're 82 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:52.479 on our technology that take us away or take us 83 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:55.199 out of the moment when it comes to being able 84 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:59.000 to actually listen to people that are talking to us 85 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:01.879 versus the pen and paper route. But I think that's 86 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.319 a really big part of how I'm looking to understand 87 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:08.879 Number one, like do these meetings have value? Like do 88 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:10.639 people take them serious? Do they feel like they're getting 89 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.840 something out of it? And number two, are they listening 90 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.920 to one another? And then are we sharing in such 91 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:20.360 a way that it's adding value and that we're able 92 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:22.800 to get something from the dialogue that we're having. 93 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:23.439 And I think for me. 94 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.199 That's that's the foundation of them really stepping into like 95 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.800 how do we listen to each other on different levels? 96 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.199 How do we listen to each other when not informal settings? 97 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:35.399 But I think you have to really start it with 98 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:36.160 the formal settings. 99 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:37.160 Yeah, I agree with that. 100 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:41.240 The first time that I ever was given a notepad 101 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:43.439 to in order to take notes on when it comes 102 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.600 to these types of you know, meetings or or one 103 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.360 off conversations, it was by a leader who had used 104 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.600 one for a lot of their lives and they gave 105 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:57.000 the a little note bad to me and it was nice, 106 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.360 like it was a just fit in the back pocket 107 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:01.360 of my pants. And that was the goal of it 108 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:03.319 was if you had to carry it around, then you 109 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:04.439 could put it down somewhere and. 110 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:05.000 Not have it with you. 111 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.759 But if it was small enough to put in your 112 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.600 back pocket, then it would be always available to you, 113 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:13.120 you know, to be able to use. And again this 114 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.720 isn't for formality. It's truly just so that you don't 115 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:21.160 have to task yourself with remembering every single thing that 116 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.439 was said to you by a team member or a 117 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.079 coworker or or somebody you were meeting with, you know, 118 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.360 because you might you might meet with, you know, one 119 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.639 to seventy people in a day, you know, like any 120 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.759 number of that. And and if you are a leader 121 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:38.600 and you have a large team, it's very difficult to 122 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:41.279 remember everything that said to you by the people reporting 123 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:44.560 to you. But each of those people only had one 124 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.079 meeting with their leader that day, and that was you. 125 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.319 And and I promise you they remember everything you said 126 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:53.959 to them, even if you don't remember everything they said 127 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:56.879 to you, because it blended in with a dozen other 128 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:59.519 meetings that you had with with their peers. And so 129 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:03.439 having that notepad available to you is it's really valuable. 130 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:05.720 And the first time it was given to me, I 131 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.240 thought this is ridiculous, and I didn't use it. I 132 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:10.920 carried it around with me because the person who gave 133 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.600 it to me would would have, like, you know, give 134 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.399 me a little side eye if they did had not 135 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:15.920 seen it. 136 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:17.360 So it was there. 137 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.839 But what made me realize the value in it was 138 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:24.959 actually being in a situation where I had to remember 139 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.040 something that I had been told a few days earlier 140 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.680 and not having the answer and having to say to myself, 141 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:33.800 I can get the answer, give me a second, let 142 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:35.199 me figure that out. And I had to go ask 143 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.600 the person again, and it wasn't a big deal, but 144 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:39.839 it was this kind of light bulb moment of uh, 145 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:41.720 I could have totally just written that down and I 146 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:43.519 would have had it right in the moment when I 147 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.879 was asked. And again like you know, you know, Lorenzo 148 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:49.839 just said, you know, talked about technology versus the you know, 149 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.480 the writing it down, And I agree, if I write 150 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:55.120 something down, I'm more inclined to remember it than if 151 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:59.480 I type it. But the purpose of writing it down 152 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.279 isn't just about remembering it. It's about being in the 153 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.600 moment with the person. And it's also about that you 154 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.279 don't want to look at these notes as as a formality. 155 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:10.839 You want to look at them as just for you. 156 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:13.279 And so if you're if you're in a setting with 157 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.680 an employe where you're holding them accountable for something, right, 158 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.920 if there's something where it's something has to be documented, 159 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.600 where you're talking to an employee, you're thinking to yourself, Okay, 160 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:23.600 I need to make sure my teas are crossed and 161 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:26.639 my eyes are dotted. That's when you use the technology, 162 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:28.279 but you use it in front of the employee and 163 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:29.920 you and they can see what you're typing and they 164 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:32.079 can see what you're any so there's there's transparency in 165 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:35.560 that the notepad doesn't have to have the teas dotted 166 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.360 and the i's crossed right, like this is just between 167 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:40.639 you and yourself in order to make sure that the 168 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:43.360 person you're talking to understands that you're trying to be 169 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:45.279 in the moment, but you also want to make sure 170 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.000 that you remember these things for later on, so that 171 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:48.839 that's very important. 172 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:50.360 But I want to go back to the. 173 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:55.759 Idea of when your team has stopped putting clout into 174 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.680 what they're each other is saying. And so I think 175 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:02.160 about the the old adage, you know, failing to plan 176 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:06.800 is planning to fail. They're they're the same thing. If 177 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:10.160 if you apply this kind of note taking strategy to that, 178 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:14.079 it works as well. Because if if a team doesn't 179 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:16.279 seem to be listening to each other, but they're also 180 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:19.120 not taking notes when they're talking to each other, or 181 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.199 or taking any steps to kind of you know, listen 182 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.600 actively and you know, hearing what the person is saying 183 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:29.920 and writing it down and those kind of those kind 184 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:33.279 of steps. If they're not doing those things, then it's 185 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.960 possible they don't think that there's value in it, or 186 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.279 it's possible that they don't actually care what that person 187 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.360 has to say and they're just waiting for their turn 188 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.559 to speak. And so as a leader, it's important that 189 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.960 you're that you're positioning yourself in a way that lets 190 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.399 you view these interactions and and see how they're going. 191 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.360 Because you can listen to the responses, you can tell 192 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:56.879 if a person responded from a standpoint of hey, I 193 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:59.559 heard what you just said, let's talk about that, or 194 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:02.480 if there was responding from a standpoint of okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 195 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:04.720 now let's hear what I have to say. And as 196 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:07.600 a third party observer sometimes it's even easier to tell 197 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.759 if that's what's being is that's what's happening. Then if 198 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.720 you're a person actually in the conversation. 199 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:12.840 Yeah, no, it's it's a great call. 200 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:15.080 And I think as you were talking through that example, 201 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.559 I was thinking about how do you how do you 202 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:23.559 create space or how do you as a leader, validate 203 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:27.159 that active listening is happening. Besides like the formal settings 204 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:31.679 and the dialogue, and I think that yeah, being able 205 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.919 to observe and listen and like and I think more 206 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:39.519 importantly kind of like recap the conversations with both parties 207 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.039 or with the person who is supposed to be listening. 208 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:43.759 I think most of the conversations that I'm listening to 209 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.000 is like it's back and forth. And sometimes when it 210 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.159 comes to like listening, when I when I think of 211 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.080 like the the opposite of this, like this being something 212 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:53.759 that is a problem for teams, like like people are 213 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:56.039 not listening to each other, I'm like, where. 214 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.159 Does that show up the most? 215 00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:01.240 And I think it's in places of like disagreements or 216 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.919 debates where something needs to be solved for and people 217 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:11.159 have different opinions, people have different perspectives or quite honestly, 218 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.960 like maybe somebody shares like not a great idea and 219 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:18.240 it gets challenged on it, and then some ego takes 220 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:19.799 over and then it's kind of you play that game 221 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.799 like that's not what I said, Well that's exactly what 222 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:24.360 you said. Well that's not what I meant, Okay, Well 223 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.080 then you know say what you mean, Like like those 224 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.159 are the times when I think that when people say, 225 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:33.159 like nobody's listening to me or my team doesn't listen, Well, 226 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.639 I think it's in those moments where there is disagreement 227 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:42.360 or debate and as a leader, those are the moments 228 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:47.480 in those of the times when it is best to 229 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.519 to to make sure that you're a part of some 230 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:52.080 of the dialogue where you can or bring the people together. 231 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.519 Like it doesn't do you any good if if somebody, 232 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:57.960 if if there's a concern about somebody not listening, and 233 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.399 then you listen to both people individuals. I think if 234 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.759 you're going to solve that on a larger level, you 235 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:05.879 have to bring the people together. You have to bring 236 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.279 the team together, you have to talk through you have 237 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:09.960 to ask them to kind of repeat what the other 238 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.639 person just said. Like there's a lot of things that 239 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.399 you can do here. But if if in fact it's 240 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.799 not about listening, if your opportunity is that the team's 241 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.879 not listening to one another, you're going to have to 242 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:27.039 be much more attentive and involved in conversations that are 243 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.919 happening where the listening aspect is the thing that's being 244 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:31.960 shared as a concern. 245 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:33.080 I think you're spot on with that. 246 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.120 And I you know, when when. 247 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.600 When a person says something, I know I can just 248 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:44.240 speak personally. I've said things before. Where as I finish 249 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:48.360 saying them, there's a part of me that thinks that 250 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.279 didn't come out the way that I wanted it to 251 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.120 come out, Like I know what I was thinking in 252 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.120 my head, and I said it in the way that 253 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:55.679 I thought it was the best way to say it. 254 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.440 But I almost listen to myself saying it from the 255 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.320 perspective somebody else hearing it, and the way that it 256 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:06.960 sounds might give off a different impression or a different uh, 257 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:10.000 you know, elicit a different response than what I was intending. 258 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:13.080 And you know, so when a when a person is 259 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.360 is in a situation where a coworker or a peer 260 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.559 or a leader and they're having a conversation and and 261 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.919 that kind of stress level goes up or the tension 262 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:25.200 goes up because someone is you know, responding in a 263 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.360 way that says you know that you know, say to 264 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:29.440 say what you mean, not something else that's not what 265 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.320 I said. If if it's if it's at that level, 266 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:35.519 it means that the relationship is already in a place 267 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:38.519 where the people are not assuming positive intent from each other. 268 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.080 They're they're not trying to understand what the other person said. 269 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:46.480 They're trying to pigeonhole that person into the exact words 270 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.320 that they used to hold them accountable to those words. 271 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.080 In order to make it in order to invalidate their 272 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.159 opinion to begin with, as opposed to thinking about it 273 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:57.600 from the perspective of, Okay, what did the person mean 274 00:12:57.639 --> 00:12:59.600 when they were saying this? Can I look at it 275 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.519 through you know, kind of their their eyes as opposed 276 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:05.720 to my own? Am I am I trying to wordsmith 277 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.399 it in a way to make me right? Or Am 278 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.600 I trying to truly listen with empathy and hear what 279 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.159 they're trying to say and put myself in their shoes 280 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:17.799 and and meet them where they are as opposed to 281 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:21.080 just finding a way to win the conversation. And again, 282 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:24.639 you know, intent is everything. If if both people are 283 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.399 approaching it from the standpoint of I'm not trying to 284 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:30.919 win the conversation, I'm trying to understand what my coworker 285 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:32.840 has said so that we can meet each other where 286 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.960 we are, then that problem will solve itself one hundred 287 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:37.720 percent of the time. If both people are in that 288 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:40.600 spot right there, there's nothing to solve because it will 289 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.679 work itself out in that conversation. It's when it doesn't 290 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.840 work itself out, it's usually from the standpoint of, hey, 291 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:50.480 I'm I'm trying to kind of you know, jockey the conversation. 292 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:52.440 I want to make sure that it goes my way 293 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:55.519 and whatever the other person says, I'm going to try 294 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:58.080 to find a way to circumvent that or get around 295 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.320 it so that my perspective is the one that that 296 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.080 ends up winning. And if, again, if you're a leader 297 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:05.559 of both of these people who are talking to each other, 298 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.519 then it's your responsibility to make sure that not only 299 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.799 that you don't don't go into solve that particular problem, 300 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.720 but when you go in, it's to solve the issue 301 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.200 of what caused the disconnect to begin with, which is 302 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:23.519 the relationship issue, and getting to the root of that problem, 303 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.039 because just jumping in and trying to solve the actual 304 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:29.960 issue being talked about will just result in you being 305 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.879 looked at as taking a side between one of the 306 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:33.519 two of them, and that's not what you want to do. 307 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.679 You don't want to because let's be honest. If I've 308 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.200 been in this situation as a leader and I'm trying 309 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:41.559 to figure out a problem that's happening between two employees, 310 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.840 I promise you you like one of those two employees 311 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.440 better than the other. You always one of them you 312 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:49.840 will like better than the other. And there's no way 313 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.440 that those people don't have a at least a hint 314 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.960 of that, if not outright no that. And so it's 315 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:00.879 be very difficult for you to solve that problem without 316 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.759 it being very apparent to them that you just took sides. 317 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.840 And so again, it's not about you giving them an answer, 318 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.639 it's about you trying to almost play Devil's advocate for 319 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.399 each other and and and kind of hyping up each 320 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.279 of them from a standpoint of, Hey, what is this 321 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.559 person trying to say? How can you kind of meet 322 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.399 you other where each other is at and make sure 323 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.120 that the that the the words that you're saying are 324 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.960 not falling on deaf ears because you place value on 325 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.000 them just simply by the fact that this person is 326 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:30.080 a coworker and they have something valuable to add. 327 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.559 Absolutely, and well that brings us to this episodes of 328 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:33.159 women Hack. 329 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:34.759 But first a few words from our sponsors. 330 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:37.240 All right, for this episode one, Heck, here's what I 331 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.000 want you to do. If you're a leader of people 332 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.840 and you have a multi person team, I want you 333 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.000 to start by, you know, passing out a piece of 334 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.919 paper that has the these two questions kind of typed 335 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.240 out on it on a scale of one to ten, 336 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:54.600 how well do I believe I listen to my coworkers? 337 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.879 And this is this is the words on the paper. 338 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:58.679 And then the second question is on a scale of 339 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.919 one to ten, how well do I believe my co 340 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:05.000 workers listen to me? And chances are that the results 341 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.120 are going to show that a person believes that they 342 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.159 listen to their co workers far better than they believe 343 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.159 their co workers listen to them. And if you can 344 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.200 show these questions should be answered anonymously, by the way, 345 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.200 and when you show the results to your team, that 346 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.600 everybody is saying that they believe they listen well, but 347 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.279 that they believe that their team members and co workers 348 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.080 don't listen well to them, then clearly the issue. There's 349 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.399 an issue there, because listening is not about what you 350 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.399 think you've done well. It's about what the person you're 351 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:39.000 talking to you thinks you've done well. That's the ultimate 352 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:42.200 judge of listening is the person you're talking to. You 353 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.000 can't judge how well you listened to a person you've 354 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.399 had a conversation with. And so if you start from 355 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.279 a standpoint of just identifying the problem, it'd be a 356 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.399 lot easier for your team to kind of get to 357 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.320 a place where they can understand that there is a 358 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.360 problem to solve, because if no one believes there's a problem, 359 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.759 if everybody thinks that their co workers listen to them, well, 360 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:02.679 then there shouldn't be any issues here. There shouldn't be 361 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.960 any communication problems where one person is trying to, you know, 362 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.960 insert their point of view above somebody else's. They should 363 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.680 be listening to each other and coming to common solutions 364 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.440 or shared solutions based. 365 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:14.359 On the all the information. 366 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.799 But that's not happening. There is a problem with listening 367 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.000 and putting value on what the other person is said. 368 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.839 So starting with exercise will help a lot of teams 369 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.079 kind of get to a place where they can go, oh, yeah, okay, 370 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:28.480 there's an issue here, and then you can start addressing 371 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.000 the issues with everybody collectively, not from a standpoint of 372 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.599 this is one person's problem, but rather this is a 373 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.440 team problem that if we solve together, we'll see a 374 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:38.200 lot better outcomes. 375 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.039 Yeah, I think it's a great woman at hack, and 376 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.960 I like the idea of kind of self identifying from 377 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.160 a team standpoint. I think it's important for things like 378 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.359 this because so much of like so much of when 379 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.160 you say, like, are people listening is a subjective opinion 380 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:58.359 on how we feel about how other people listen to us. 381 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:00.680 So I love that you kind of call that out. 382 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:04.279 Because I think that getting the team involved and saying, hey, 383 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.839 we're identifying this as a problem or an issue, how 384 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:09.839 do you feel about it? Oh, look at that, you 385 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:11.880 know how you feel about it also aligns with what 386 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.039 we're observing. Okay, So then when are these moments happening, 387 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:16.119 What are we going to do about it? 388 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:17.160 How do we get better at this? 389 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:22.839 Even if it gets slightly better, the team typically feels 390 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:24.880 like it's better because like we've talked about it and 391 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.319 it's something that we're doing, and that. 392 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.440 In itself I think is helpful. 393 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.599 But then I also think that you have to, as 394 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.200 the leaders, start to establish some things that will make 395 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.599 us all better listeners. Like if you're going to implement, hey, 396 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.039 technology down, we're going to do handwritten notes or whatever 397 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.119 the case is. Like when we're in you know, conversations 398 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:50.200 around you know, debates, healthy debates or dialogue on strategies, 399 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:52.519 we're going to get in that practice of repeating what 400 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.039 the other person just said before you share your your 401 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.839