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Speaker 1: But there is something to be said for the idea

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that our kingdom is not of this world, that we

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belong to a heavenly city. And the thing that I

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want to argue is that if you don't have this sense,

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the sense of belonging to heavenly city, then you won't

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have universal history. And that actually the sense of alienation

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to this world is the thing which is necessary, paradoxically

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necessary foreign culturation, our longing for paradise and desire to

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forsake this world paradoxically results in saints who establish the world.

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When you say something like the Saints uphold the world,

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this is what that means.

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Speaker 2: This is Jonathan Begel.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Symbolic World. Hello everyone.

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Speaker 4: We are back with an episode of Universal History with

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Richard Rowland. As you see, sometimes it takes a little

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longer for us to get to these episodes, but it's

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actually because we're doing all the good stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Symbolic World Press.

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Speaker 4: Richard has been working in the background, you know, he's

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really been managing the company, putting things together, trying to

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get people's books to them, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, getting the courses together.

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Speaker 2: Like there.

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Speaker 4: We have so many great things going on We're really

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excited about the spot.

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Speaker 1: And part of the reason it's been a while since

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we've done one of these videos is because we just

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finished the purgatorial course that's also which was an amazing

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experience and is if you like this sort of thing.

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It's just us talking for eighteen hours about Purgatorio, and

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I think it's so far of the classes that we've done,

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it was my favorite. I mean, we got to talk

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about so many amazing things in that course, and there's

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so many great insights that I think that really surprised everybody,

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and I got new things going through it with you

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as well.

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Speaker 2: So and we do plan.

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Speaker 1: I know a couple of people have been like, Okay,

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don't forget about Perry d So we want to make

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sure that's on the schedule. So this is on the

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schedule for early next year, so just to stay tuned

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for that. We have some other exciting courses in the

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new year that I'm really eager to announce, but I'm

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going to restrain myself for now. But we have just

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a lot of good things coming. So one of the

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cool courses that we have coming up that's starting in

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mid November is Martin Shaw's course on Christian wonder Tales,

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And let me just say that this course is going

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to be absolutely amazing. It's going to be four sessions

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with Martin, and he's going to be He teaches in

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a very different way than I teach, which is to say,

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he's gonna basically like get you inside of the story.

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So one of the things we're gonna be kind of

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talking around the story of Saint Brendan the Navigator today

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as part of our Universal History series and especially as

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part of the mini series where we're kind of focused

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on Ireland. But what I want to say is that

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I'm not going to steal any of Doctor Shaw's thunder.

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In fact, it would be impossible for me to do so,

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because no matter how I tell the story, he's going

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to tell it better. I'm going to talk about the story,

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but He's going to tell you the story. So hopefully

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this is just maybe what's everybody's appetite. I am personally

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really looking forward to that course. We're also the course

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has an insanely amazing logo that Heather designed, and we

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went to Heather and Martin were like, could we make

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this into a T shirt? Because I would wear that

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so we're gonna have We're gonna have merch for that course,

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which I'm really excited about. So okay, so we're gonna

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be talking about the boy Saint Brendan the Navigator today.

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Probably not the entire thing, because the actual voyage is incredibly.

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Speaker 2: Long, I think, much longer than anybody remembers.

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Speaker 1: But one of the questions that I've gotten several times

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recently is what book of Irish saints do I keep

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referring to? And I thought I'd shared it before, but

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if not, here it is. It's just called The Lives

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of Irish Irish Saints. It's in three volumes, edited by

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Charles Plumber. They have these green covers and no pictures

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at all. I mean, this is the horrible thing about academia.

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It's published by Oxford Clarendon Press. The horrible thing about

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academia is that people collect the most wondrous things they

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can and then make them look as deliberately boring as possible.

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And someday we're going to fix this, Jonathan. Oh yeah,

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someday we're going to do our own collection of the

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Lives of the Saints of the British Isles, and it's

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going to be done.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have the best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be amazing.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So the thing that I wanted to talk

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about today to kind of introduce this is actually to,

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let's say, introduce a corrective to the universal history discussion.

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Speaker 2: And so I started this, this entire series.

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Speaker 1: Which has been going for like almost three years now,

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and people somebody asked me the other day, is like,

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how many more videos are you going to do? And

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I said, I can do unlimited videos on this. I'm

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never going to stop, Like I'll stop when Jonathan like

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you know, smothers me.

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Speaker 2: With a pillow, like we're going to just keep making

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these forever. But no, the the.

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Speaker 1: The very first video in this series we introduced with

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this idea that sort of as I said, you know,

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I said something like Constantine saved everything or something like that,

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and and you were like, oh, Richard Jesus saved everything.

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Like we've got to be a little you know, But

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I that was a corrective itself, right, I'm I'm you know,

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like Constantine is sort of the big bad guy. And

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one of the purposes of this project is basically like

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an appologia for Constantine and for other people who build civilizations,

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found cultures, established dynasties, all these different things.

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Speaker 2: And you've talked a ton, even really recently.

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Speaker 1: The video you did on Saint Peter is another great

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example of the ways that you know, whenever we establish

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these hierarchies in the world, they have these upsides in

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these downsides, and they have these two different kind of

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aspects they can take. We actually talked about this a

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lot in our Inferno and Purgatorial courses as well, since

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this is one of the main things that Dante is

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constantly thinking about and trying to like work through what's

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gone wrong with it in his own time. But then

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also why is it still necessary? But all of that

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to say when somebody says something like, oh, well, you know,

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Christ's kingdom is not of this world, which is certainly

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something you find a lot of the martyrs saying, especially

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during the Great Persecution. Christ's kingdom is of this world,

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and we should be focused on heavenly things and not

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on any earthly city.

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Speaker 2: I mean, as I'm recording.

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Speaker 1: This, we're in the middle of a yet again, the

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most important election of my lifetime. I'm told every election

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is the most important election in my lifetime. And I'll

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just admit that I really struggle actually being a Christian

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and being involved in politics, and part of it is

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just a certain amount of cynicism that I sort of carry.

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And so you can go too far and just say

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Christian shouldn't be involved in politics at all, which seems

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to not be right. But there is something to be

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said for the idea that our kingdom is not of

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this world, that we belong to a heavenly city. And

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the thing that I want to argue is that if

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you don't have this, if you don't have this sense,

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the sense of belonging to heavenly city, then you won't

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have universal history.

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Speaker 2: And that actually the sense.

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Speaker 1: Of alienation to this world is the thing which is necessary,

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paradoxically necessary foreign culturation.

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Speaker 4: And I think this is the paradox that you know,

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we've presented many times on this channel in different guises,

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which is that if you don't hold if you try

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to hold on to something as if you own it,

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then you lose it. Whereas if you are willing to

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let it go and to or offer it up to

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God is a good way of thinking about it, then

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you actually get the best of it, you know. And

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so you know, obviously Christ of that about your life.

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But it's a way of thinking about the everything, all

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the identities and all the things you participated.

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Speaker 1: Let me just pick on my own tribe for a moment, right, So,

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among converts to Orthodoxy in the United States, there's a

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lot of talk about inculturation and you could even say

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a certain degree of anxiety about it.

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Speaker 2: A lot of anxiety about.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, when are we going to get like really

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like American music, as if there's like one, you know,

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American music, and so anyway there and there are attempts

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that are constantly made at this about sort of trying

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to figure out and you can see anxiety in people

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where they're constantly worried about, well, what's it mean to

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be like a Western person and an American and then

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also part of the Eastern Orthodox Church and all of

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the things that you know come with it. And one

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of the things, one of the ways this can manifest

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is that people get a little hasty about trying to

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solve the problem, and they get a little hasty about

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you say, like baptizing various elements or things from other

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religious traditions, stuff like that. And I just I hear

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have to say I'm going to say this. I have

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to insist upon the fact that Christians don't baptize cultures,

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they don't baptize practices. They baptize persons. And we have

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very often this language is kind of slipped in where

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we talk about, oh, we just took this custom and

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baptized it, you know, by analogy. But I think it's

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important to insist on this idea that we baptize persons

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because it's through holy people, it's through us living lives

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of asceticism and holiness. It's through the Saints that our culture,

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whatever it's supposed to be, whatever is good in it,

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whatever can be carried with it into the life of Christ,

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that that's going to grow and be made manifest.

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Speaker 2: But this is a.

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Speaker 1: Slow process, and as I said, paradoxically, it is one

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that only begins to work when we embrace our alienation

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to this world and our desire for paradise. So our

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last video was on this sort of the surprising Irish

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origins of purgatory, and then we went into that and

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did you know, a six week course on Dante's Purgatorio

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where we revealed, among other things, the secret resting place of.

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Speaker 2: Arthur for people who if you, if you, if.

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Speaker 1: You watch the chorus, you know, well, one of the

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things that is true about all traditional accounts of purgatory

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that or or or things that are like purgatory right

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now you not even you know purgatory specifically as as

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the doctrine now taught by the Roman, Conthlic Catholic Church.

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But but but these these kind of uh, these data

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which have come to us in the usually in the

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form of you know, apocalyptic visions and dreams and you know, uh,

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the visitation of dead loved ones and so forth, right,

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which which which? Which accounts for a very large body

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of human experience over the course of the last several

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hundred years. And one of the things that all of

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these traditional accounts that we talked about in the purgatorial class,

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that they all have in common is that at the

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end of purgatory, or at the bottom of purgatory, or

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at the top of purgatory, depending on what your scheme is,

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there's the earthly paradise.

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Speaker 2: And the earthly paradise is sort of the last stop.

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Speaker 1: It's a refreshment before you move on to the true paradise.

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And what it seems to be is that all of

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this fixation on the afterlife, and you could say that

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at its heart it really has a longing for paradise,

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and that these accounts cast that longing forward into the

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journey of the soul after death. But this desire for paradise,

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this is what sent men out into again, very paradoxically,

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it's what set men out into the wilderness of the

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Egyptian desert to confront the demons head on and to

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confront the darkness with their own hearts. That same desire

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for paradise is what made Constantine build the first Christian city.

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And what I want to talk about today is the

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way in which this desire for paradise manifests. This manifests

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itself in the life of Saint Brendan of Clonfer, who

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is considered one of the twelve Apostles of Ireland. So

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there's these twelve great bishop saints of Ireland and they're

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called the twelve Apostles of Ireland.

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Speaker 2: And they're the sort of the ones upon whom you

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could say the.

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Speaker 1: Manifestation that the phenomena of an Irish church is founded.

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And I think I said this a couple of videos ago,

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but it's several historians have said that it's not an

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exaggeration to say that the Church of Britain and Gaul

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during the sixth century is fundamentally an Irish church. It's

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founded by Irish missionaries. It's founded by these Irish monastic bishops.

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So in the West, not every bishop has been a monastic,

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they're usually not, but in the Irish practice and there

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probably is here. One of the things that I have

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not yet really talked about is whether or not there

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is a continuity.

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Speaker 2: Between you could say, like the.

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Speaker 1: Egyptian Desert and Egyptian Christianity and Celtic Christianity. The evidence

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seems to be that there is, but it's really easy

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to overstate the case. And I think we're just now

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sort of maybe kind of sorting out, you know, what

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things are similar just because they're both Christian aesthetic traditions,

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and what things are similar because maybe there's some direct influence.

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But certainly one of the things that seems to be

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an element of direct influence in the Irish Church is

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the fact that all the Irish bishops are monastics, and

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so you have people building Christian communities not in the

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center of a city like they would do in Constantinople,

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but rather in around a monastery. So what happens is

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you have a holy man and then community forms around him,

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and then the city forms around the monastic community. And

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that's the model for how churches are planted and how

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they grow in the in the Irish Church of.

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Speaker 2: The fifth and sixth century.

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Speaker 1: So Saint Brendan is born somewhere in the second half

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of the fifth century, I believe, and he is a

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remarkable young man in many ways.

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Speaker 2: He is.

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Speaker 1: You know, the sort of the sort of well, let

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me just let me just introduce him, because I think

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that we have some ideas of Saint Brendan, and he's

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in his little boat and sanely across, you know, alone

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on the on the sea, and it's all very picturesque

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and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: But I want us to under.

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Speaker 1: In order to kind of make the point that I

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want to make, we need to understand how Saint Brendan

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was conceived of by the Irish. So this is from

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this is from an eighth century life of Saint Brendan.

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Then then of this company of Happy and Blessed ones

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that is one of the twelve as well.

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Speaker 2: Let me back up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: He says, now, there are many of the patriarchs and

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the prophets and the apostles of the Lord of the Elements,

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the Lord of Elements, that's an Irish name for good

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of whom this oracle is spoken in the Old and

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the New Testaments. That they were happy, just and perfect

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in their desire and longing to fulfill the divine command

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and teaching, and who had the secret fear of the

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Lord perfectly in their hearts and minds, without thought for

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anything else but that alone. So there's a connection here

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between the twelve Patriarchs of the Old Testament, the twelve

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Apostles in the New Testament, and then the twelve Apostles

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of Ireland. Right one, then, of this company and blessed

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ones in the New Testament, is he whose festival and

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commemoration falls at this season on the sixteenth day of June,

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to wit Brendan, the Sun of Finnlug. This Brendan was

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the head of the belief and the devotion of a

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great part of the world, like faithful Abraham, a pre

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eminently prophetic psalmist, like David the son of Jesse, a

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distinguished sage, like Solomon the son of David, a lawgiver

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to hundreds like Moses the son of Amram, A prolific

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translator like Jerome, A wondrous thinker like Augustine. And this

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is going to trigger some people. A great and eminently

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universal student like Origin. A virgin like John the Lord's

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bosom foster Ling, which is this is an eighth entry

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there wrote this. Yeah, A virgin like John the Lord's

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bosom foster Ling. An evangelist like Matthew, a teacher like Paul,

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a chief apostle, gentle and forgiving like Peter. An Aramite,

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that is, a hermit like John the Baptist. A commentator

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like Gregory of Rome. That's Saint Gregory the Dialogius, a

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prudent and wondrous emissary by sea and land, like Noah

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in the Ark. For as Noah raised the ark. Of course,

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you might just be thinking, oh, he sailed, Noah sailed,

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that's the comparison. But no, it says, far as Noah

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raised the arc high above the noisy waves of the flood,

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so will Brendan, the son of Finnlog raise his monks

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and his family, hopefully that is us, high above the

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fire of doom, so that no fog or spark or

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smoke shall reach them through the power and fair devotion

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of Brendan, the son of Finnlog. So that's how he's

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introduced in every single one of the patriarchs and the

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prophets and the great fathers of the Church come again

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in fifth century Ireland.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the stories of his childhood themselves are quite remarkable,

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and there's all the sort of the wondrous stuff that

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you would expect in one of these kinds of wonder tales.

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When at his baptism three Actually, today, everybody, we're going

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to play my favorite game, which, as you all know,

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is throwing information at Jonathan that he's never heard before

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and then asking him to interpret it on the fly.

333
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So one of the things I should really just send

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you notes beforehand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, one of the things.

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Speaker 1: And maybe you have a take on this, maybe you don't.

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Maybe it's just one of these kind of like wondrous

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things that happened in the story.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that happens is.

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Speaker 1: When he's baptized that out of the font three and

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they are three gelding rams. They're called what's the word

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for that, man, I can't remember the word right now.

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There's a special there's a special word for for gelding rams. Yeah,

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for a gelding ram, like an old there's like an

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old English word for this. It's like waiters or something

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like that. Anyway, three of them come leaping out of

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the font and they basically become his baptismal feet. So

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the idea is like you bring an offering to church

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when a child was being baptized, and these three rams

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come leaping up out of the baptismal font, which is

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like pays his baptistm.

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Speaker 3: Pays and do they eat the rams?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the implication. I mean, you can't do anything

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else with the guilding ram, right.

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Speaker 3: It's castira.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I don't know if you have thoughts

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about that.

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Speaker 5: I didn't even but I think I think I think

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that it's it's definitely it's related to the idea of

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the Miracle of the five thousand, in the sense of

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this notion that you kind of are able to gather

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out of the sea.

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Speaker 3: It's something like fishing, right some ways.

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Speaker 4: It's it's the idea that when you go when when

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you go down in the water, when the Christian goes

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down into the water, they bring up the fish or

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like the miraculous fish of.

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Speaker 3: Saint Peter. I think that's what it refers to.

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Speaker 4: It's like Christians are able to gather new things from

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the from the waters, and so I think it's also

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probably related to the fact that he then finds a

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new land, because that new land is something that he

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gathered out of the chaos of the of the west,

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you know, that was able to kind of discover this

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new place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's all related to this idea of of

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going into the deep and then bringing out a treasure.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's there's definitely a very strong association for

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people who aren't familiar with like ancient baptismal rites.

381
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Speaker 2: In the ancient.

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Speaker 1: Baptismal prayers, there is a very very strong association between

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the baptismal waters and then on the one hand, the

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primordial waters of chaos over which the Holy Spirit hovers

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right to draw you know, creation ab out of it.

386
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But also like the flood, right, the flood and the

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idea of like the serpent and the water or the

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demon in the water, like there's there's a dragon down there, right,

390
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And so that's one of the things that in these

391
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ancient baptismal prayers, we would ask God to actually crush

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the head of the serpent in the water, right, So

393
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basically take this thing that has this potential for chaos

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and then make it a place of new life and

395
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where identity can be conferred.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think I think that's what it is.

397
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Speaker 4: And it's like it's also like this idea of like

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gather bringing food, like bringing food up from the.

399
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Speaker 1: I think I mentioned this before, but a lot of

400
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Irish miracles are specifically food related. They have to do

401
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:17,599
with a miraculous meal being provided in some way. There's

402
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,279
a lot of other fun stories about, you know, Saint Brendan,

403
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all these kinds of things that maybe you would expect

404
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:28,039
in a story like this. He when Brendan is young,

405
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he decides he wants to spend his life traveling around

406
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the island and basically learning the rule of the Saints

407
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of Ireland in other words, traveling to all these monastic

408
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communities and collecting what is their rule of life. And

409
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so he does this and there's a lot of you know,

410
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as he travels from place to place, he rights wrongs,

411
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He you know, restores the dead to life. He one

412
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of his miracles involves a man who's traveling with him,

413
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who's being hunted by his enemies, and he says, go

414
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and hide under this stone, like it's under the standing stone,

415
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like an old pagan standing stone.

416
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 2: Go hide under the stone.

417
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Speaker 1: And then the enemies come along and they look at

418
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the stone and to them, to their eyes, it looks

419
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like this man they've been hunting, and so they strike

420
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the top of the stone off like and the top

421
00:23:10,759 --> 00:23:13,079
of the stone falls off as though it's this man's head.

422
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And then the man comes out and sat Brendan says,

423
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you know, you have to do penants to become monks now,

424
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and so you know, just like stories like this, and

425
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a lot of them are as usually in this kind

426
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:30,160
of literature. The interesting thing about this kind of hagiography

427
00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:33,160
is that the emphasis is, you could say, the rhetorical

428
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,799
flourish is put on extolling the virtue of the saint

429
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,319
and then but the miracles themselves are just told in

430
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,599
this very matter of fact kind of a way, which

431
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,480
is maybe counterintuitive to the way that most of us would.

432
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Speaker 2: Write the story.

433
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: Now, right, yeah, so long story short, As he's traveling around,

434
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he finally comes to so after having written the whole

435
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,400
rule of the saints of Ireland and put their together,

436
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,559
the customs and their devotions. And this is sort of

437
00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:05,680
the you say, the mythic source for the rule of

438
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,440
life that was followed by Celtic monastics, you know, is

439
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,359
Saint Brendan's rule, the same way that you have like

440
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,920
the rule of Saint Benedict in the West, or you know,

441
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,039
Saint Basil in the East, or something like that. But

442
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,799
after he's been writing all this, he comes back to

443
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:23,160
the bishop and it says he received orders from him,

444
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,759
which is to say, he's ordained, he's made a priest

445
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:30,119
or a bishop. And there at that service, the gospel

446
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,480
reading that day is the same gospel reading that seems

447
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:37,680
to launch a lot of these ancient monastics on the career,

448
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:41,000
which is whoever does not give up father.

449
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Speaker 2: And mother, houses and lands, et cetera, et cetera.

450
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Speaker 1: And it says that it was after this therefore, so

451
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this is after he's kind of been traveling around Ireland

452
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and working on establishing and building up the Irish Church.

453
00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,759
Ireland is his home right. His parents are very di

454
00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:05,440
a very devout chieftain and his wife. He has a brother,

455
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:11,079
his foster mother was this monastic woman. And anyway, so

456
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,359
he has a family. Ireland's his home. And it says

457
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,000
but after he heard this gospel passage, it was after this, therefore,

458
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that they grew up in his heart a great love

459
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to the Lord. And he desired to leave his land

460
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and his country, his parents, and his patrimony. And he

461
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:29,759
requested earnestly of the Lord that he would grant him

462
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:36,000
some secret country, far removed from all men. And so

463
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,240
at this point Brendan starts looking for this place, for

464
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:42,920
this secret country, and he starts moving, you know, more

465
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and more, you could say, towards the edge of the island.

466
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And this is when he first meets a small group

467
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of monks who had once traveled to the land of

468
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,880
the Saints. And with a blessing from an angel, he

469
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:04,119
is granted to undertake this task. So Brendan takes sixty

470
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,720
men and three boats and they.

471
00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: Embark.

472
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,799
Speaker 1: Actually the story of how they get together originally it's

473
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,680
fifty seven fifty six men, fifty six men, three boats.

474
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So they make the boats, and we get all the

475
00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:22,920
language about the making of the boats. And if you're

476
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,119
attented to this sort of thing, there's similarity in the

477
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,880
language for the making of the boats, and then the

478
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:33,400
account of there the building of the arc in Genesis,

479
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,839
but also some of the same phrases for the building

480
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,440
of the Tower of Babel huh, which I just thought

481
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,799
was very interesting. And people who've been paying attention to

482
00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:44,640
your work for a long time should, I think be

483
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,680
able to understand the similarity between these two things. But

484
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:50,720
just talking about like bitchumen and mortar and all these

485
00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:54,759
different things, like there's some similarity in the language. So

486
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:57,920
he gets his boat ready, and then after this it

487
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,960
says he saw three months of his family coming to

488
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,839
towards him, and they fell on their knees before him

489
00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:04,559
and said, Oh, Holy Father, for the love of God,

490
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,440
let us go with you where thou goest, or else

491
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,119
we will starve ourselves, for we have vowed to make

492
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,559
our pilgrimage with thee as long as we live. And

493
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:16,519
Brendan says, go ahead and come under the boat, because

494
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,960
one of you is doing this out of the right

495
00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:22,599
motivation and you're going to find salvation, and the other

496
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:23,799
two of you are going to hell.

497
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 4: So does he implied that they're going to die on

498
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,400
the trip.

499
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not just die, but lose their souls, lose

500
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,680
their souls. Yeah.

501
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:39,519
Speaker 1: So then now he's got he's up to fifty nine people.

502
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,519
And then just as they're about to launch. You're going

503
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:49,079
to love this, a jester shows up, and like a fool,

504
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,839
like a jester, he shows up and he says, take

505
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,720
me with THEE for God's sake. Pity my wretchedness that

506
00:27:56,839 --> 00:27:58,680
I may go with thee. None of these like threats

507
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:01,680
or pleadings or look at how I am. Just take

508
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,839
me with you for God's sake. And Brendan says, took

509
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,799
him with him for God's sake, and embarked in his

510
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:12,759
boats with sixty men, as the writings say, and then

511
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:13,720
we get some poetry.

512
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 2: Now to this is when we actually make.

513
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 4: One, especially that it's the last one and it's like

514
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:22,519
just before leaving. You can almost imagine that he would

515
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:25,680
have like the scene of him the boat's actually leaving

516
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,759
and like in the movies, like he jumps on the boat.

517
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:28,079
Speaker 2: Yeah.

518
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:32,519
Speaker 1: And I mean again, if somebody were to, I don't know,

519
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,839
animate this or something, you know, it's not impossible to

520
00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:44,279
think about future projects, maybe artistic projects. You can sort

521
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:46,039
of like see him with his his you know, it

522
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:48,680
probably didn't wear like a jester, like a Renaissance gester's cap,

523
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,799
but you can almost see him like there, he's tattered

524
00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:51,799
and his motley is.

525
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: All it's like oiled everything, you know, kind of ridiculous.

526
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so and you know, last guy in the

527
00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:01,880
boat comes with the eleventh hour, right, the last worker

528
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,720
in the vineyard, right.

529
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: And so they set out on the sea.

530
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:11,839
Speaker 1: And then we come to the next thing that you'll

531
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,000
get to tell me the symbolism of on the fly.

532
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:16,279
Speaker 2: Are you ready? Okay?

533
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:17,119
Speaker 3: Yeah?

534
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: Always.

535
00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Brendan bade farewell to the saints of Arun and left

536
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:27,359
a blessing with them, and they sailed on due west

537
00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,240
across the ocean, and saw after a while, at a

538
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:35,279
distance from them, a notable fair island, and they steered

539
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,559
their boats toward it till they reached the brink of it,

540
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:40,079
and they saw the shore.

541
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:40,519
Speaker 2: What's that?

542
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: I said, I know the scene, but yeah, keep okay, okay, good.

543
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: They saw on the shore was full of hideous furry

544
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:52,039
mice as large as cats. And they brethren asked Brendan,

545
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,519
what do yonder mice want? Said they Their desire.

546
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: Is to eat and devour us, said Brendan, So you

547
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,559
have these big mice as big as cats. Now do

548
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:03,960
you know what happens next?

549
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:06,319
Speaker 3: No? That?

550
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,359
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah I did not.

551
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,839
Speaker 1: I've I've read the So this is, like I said,

552
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,519
this is an eighth century vita. There's the navagazzio like

553
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:16,640
the Navigate the Voyage of Saint Brendan as a text,

554
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:17,839
and I don't remember.

555
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: Maybe it's in there. I read it last year.

556
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,279
Speaker 1: I don't remember the island of mice, and I certainly

557
00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:25,599
don't remember the detail about the jester. So this is

558
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:29,559
isle of mice, giant mice as big as cats, and

559
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,640
the the and you can sort of like imagine they're

560
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,359
all kind of gathered there on the shoreline. And the

561
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,880
men who are with Saint Brendan they ask him, like,

562
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,680
what's going on here at? And Brenda says, they desire

563
00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:49,000
to devour us. And then the craziest thing happens, and

564
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:53,400
that is Brendan turns to the gester and says to him, arise,

565
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:56,759
take the body and blood of Christ and depart to

566
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:59,759
the eternal life. For I hear the song of a

567
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:03,839
calling thee to them. And then the mind of the

568
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,400
jester rejoiced at the saying, and he said, ah Lord,

569
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,759
what good have I done? That I should be taken

570
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:14,039
to heaven so speedily? And so he takes communion and

571
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:17,319
he lays down on the boat and he dies. And

572
00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:20,799
it says that the Jester is carried up into heaven

573
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,519
by all nine orders of angels, carry him from the

574
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:32,200
boat up into paradise. And then Brendan takes the body

575
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,799
and throws it on the shore. Yeah, and the mice

576
00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:36,319
devour it.

577
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:38,119
Speaker 3: Okay, So now I understand what it's about.

578
00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:41,759
Speaker 1: Okay, I just the last little detail and then you

579
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:46,319
can explain this one to us. It says the company

580
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:49,160
Brendan buried his bones afterwards, and his name was inscribed

581
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,799
in the martyrology.

582
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: For he was a glorious martyr.

583
00:31:54,279 --> 00:32:01,599
Speaker 4: Wait a glorious okay, now martyr Okay, Okay, that one

584
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:02,480
threw me off there.

585
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

586
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: So the jester who sort of lays down text commune,

587
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,319
lays down the boat, gives up his life voluntarily, and

588
00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:12,119
then his body is eaten by the shall we say,

589
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,400
rodents of unusual size for all of my ro o

590
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:20,680
U s is and it's eaten by the rodents of

591
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,960
unusual size. And then he's a martyr.

592
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: So I mean I okay, So let's start with the

593
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:29,079
first part.

594
00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:33,279
Speaker 4: The first part is not obviously pretty simple, like in

595
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:35,680
the sense that I think that one of the things

596
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,599
that you know, obviously going out into the water represents

597
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,599
is something like death. And so we'll see different images

598
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,119
of that, different iterations of it. And the idea of

599
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,160
the you know, the devouring parasites, the idea of all

600
00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,200
of you know, it's kind of like their rats, but

601
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,039
they could be worms, like, they could be the things

602
00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:57,880
that eat you when you go down to the earth,

603
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,279
like all the multiplicity kind of uh, coming to you

604
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:06,200
and devouring your body. And and so the the image

605
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:12,599
that's being proposed here is you know that that in

606
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,720
death we still ascend into heaven like that that even

607
00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:20,240
though your body decomposes you, it doesn't mean that that's hell.

608
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,480
Like it doesn't just because your body decomposed, it doesn't

609
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:24,720
mean that that's that that's the end of you. That

610
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:27,200
in fact, you know, it actually opens up the space

611
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,359
for you to ascend.

612
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: Uh.

613
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: Now I have to admit that the martyr thing threw

614
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,480
throws me off, really throws me off. Why is he

615
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:37,079
a martyr?

616
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:37,279
Speaker 2: Like?

617
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: And you know, are so what could we consider that.

618
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:47,079
Speaker 4: The rats represent also like something like the pagan nations.

619
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,279
Speaker 2: You know that, I think that's part of the answer.

620
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: Okay, that's probably so it's like something like but also.

621
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: Like the passions, I mean, you know, like the oversized

622
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,119
you know, like these oversized road.

623
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: For sure, that's what they for sure, all of these

624
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,519
things are connected. But then if it was the passions,

625
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,880
he wouldn't be a martyr. But if if it's the nations,

626
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:14,679
then it's something like, you know, in some ways an

627
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:18,159
image of being eaten by the lions, but being eaten

628
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,280
by these these savage like nations that are that are

629
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,079
going to kill you because you're shit.

630
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: You do sometimes find in Celtic Christianity. And I have

631
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,679
no idea because I don't know what the provenance of

632
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,039
this schema is. I have no idea if it's what's

633
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,920
going on here, but I'll hazard this as like a suggestion,

634
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:38,679
and that is that that you do have in Celtic Christianity,

635
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000
this idea of the have you heard this like the

636
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,039
red martyrdom and then the Green martyrdom and then the

637
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:48,480
White martyrdom. So the idea is something like the red

638
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,079
martyrdom is when you're martyred in your blood, right and

639
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:54,679
then but the green martyrdom is the martyrdom of the

640
00:34:55,519 --> 00:34:58,400
of the ascetic, right, the asseetic who ultimately gives their

641
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,000
life up to God.

642
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: There's a there's a.

643
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: Beautiful story about this that now Saint Dimitri Stanaloi tells

644
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,559
in one of his in one of his books about

645
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,519
about this half nite monk who was so full of

646
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:18,480
longing for God that he just went into a cave

647
00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:20,920
and just said, Lord, just take just take my soul,

648
00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:23,360
just take my spirit, you know, I just want to

649
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,320
be with you, Like, because he was in the state

650
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,880
of perfect prayer, he said, I can't hold onto this

651
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:30,119
much longer, and I need you to take me now

652
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:31,679
before I sin, you know.

653
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,159
Speaker 2: And then and then he just.

654
00:35:33,159 --> 00:35:36,559
Speaker 1: Falls over there in the cave and God receives the soul.

655
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 2: And so there's this.

656
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a crazy thing, by the way, Like

657
00:35:40,159 --> 00:35:42,840
you know, probably most of us should not pray that prayer.

658
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:49,039
Speaker 3: But yeah, God's like, yeah, you just send two seconds ago.

659
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:51,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly, right, right, Yeah, you don't want me

660
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:54,639
to take you right now? Yeah, I mean, this is

661
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,159
this is uh, there's this idea of like the green

662
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,800
martyrdom and the white martyrdom is the martyrdom of basically

663
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,679
the Chase marriage bet like a a couple who lives

664
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:11,840
holy life in the world together and and you know,

665
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,519
it becomes a witness to holiness in that way. Right,

666
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:17,719
So I think this is actually a pretty useful schema

667
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,800
for thinking about our own lives and and things.

668
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 2: But it's certainly.

669
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 4: The context you would think that it would be the

670
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,639
second one, like a green martyrdom.

671
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:27,039
Speaker 2: Yeah.

672
00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:30,199
Speaker 1: Maybe, But I'm not really satisfied with this explanation because

673
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,239
that doesn't really seem to be I'm just I'm really

674
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,079
just like you, trying to figure out.

675
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 3: How there could be other types of martyrdom.

676
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, but I don't think that's the case.

677
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:40,719
I don't think that's the case here.

678
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: I think that something something about his his body being

679
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,599
devalot voured by the mice.

680
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:48,159
Speaker 4: So one of the things you could understand, like if

681
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:53,199
you think of it like I mean just narratively, if

682
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,679
you thought of it as this is a test that

683
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,280
they have to get through, and so basically it's like

684
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,000
a barrier. There's it's like a you know, they come

685
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,480
to the barrier, they have to defeat the boss in

686
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,119
like a video game before they go to the next stage,

687
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,000
and that in some ways almost like someone has to

688
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:12,400
be offered up to these mice for them to continue on,

689
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:15,280
Like someone has to be eaten by the mice before

690
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:15,840
they continue on.

691
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,119
Speaker 3: Who is it going to be the last one?

692
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 4: The last one is martyred in that sense, because it's

693
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:26,360
he's willing to let go in order for the boat

694
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,079
to continue and to be martyred for I mean, this

695
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:32,159
is now we're fantastical, like we're obviously because I mean

696
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:34,920
these stories are always really quite fantastical, but that might

697
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,039
be a way of understanding the idea that he's a martyr.

698
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,079
Speaker 2: Yeah.

699
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,119
Speaker 1: One of the things that it mentions here also is

700
00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:46,199
to say, hrein is the kindness of the Lord that

701
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,440
the sinner who came last to the ship should be

702
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:50,880
chosen of him to go first to heaven.

703
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Right.

704
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: And so it's interesting like even Saint Brendan, who's this

705
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,400
great saint who has this desire to see paradise, he's

706
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,320
got to go on this seven year voyage, right, but

707
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:05,000
the but the the fool who showed up at the

708
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,239
last minute, he's just taken.

709
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then for sure, that's definitely got to be

710
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,119
some connection to the idea of the of the workers,

711
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,320
like the parable of the of the of the workers.

712
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:20,079
Speaker 2: Right exactly. I think that's yeah, that's that's that's for sure.

713
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 3: So it's still really muddy, like very odd.

714
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I this is one of those things.

715
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,159
Speaker 1: I actually kind of wonder I need to go back

716
00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:33,960
and look at the the version of the Novgatio that

717
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,239
I've read before, because I actually wonder if this is

718
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,800
a case of one of those things that Martin was

719
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,039
talking about in your last video together where he said, uh,

720
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,280
he said, think about or maybe you said this. One

721
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,599
of you said, this is like, think about the part

722
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:49,480
of the story that you can't remember, and that's the

723
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:51,840
part of the story. I don't remember which one of

724
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:52,119
you said.

725
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 3: I think it was. I think it was.

726
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: It was really.

727
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: Helpful for me, though, because there are even parts of

728
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,480
the Gospels. I mean, I've read the Bible probably over

729
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:05,800
one hundred times cover to cover, and you know the Gospels,

730
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,440
Like how many times have I read the Gospels And

731
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,519
there's still part of the Gospels that I can't remember

732
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,440
with exactness because they're so so strange, and I'm wondering

733
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,400
if this was in there before and it was so

734
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,079
strange my mind just said, I'm going to delete that.

735
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: I have no idea what the big rous is are about.

736
00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: There's no hook for this in my memory.

737
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, right right now.

738
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:27,039
Speaker 3: I didn't meditate on it.

739
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 6: Hello, there, this is Martin Shaw inviting you to come

740
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,360
and join me for Christian wonder Tales, my first online

741
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,280
course with Symbolic World. It is a secret history of

742
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,639
things that were going to be exploring, from the early

743
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,039
Celtic saints and heroes of antiquity all the way up

744
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:53,000
to the chivalric tradition of Arthur round Table Merlin.

745
00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 7: The whole thing. What do stories like that have to

746
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,519
tell us about the moshpit of our own modern lives. Well,

747
00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:05,320
over four gatherings, we're going to find out. I promise

748
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,960
you this, it will not be boring.

749
00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:11,039
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the thing, guys. We're not going

750
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:14,079
to get through the whole Voyage of Saint Brendan because

751
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:16,639
that was literally just the first weird episode. So the

752
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:19,840
next episode has to do with the story of the

753
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,679
Island of the Bridles And I won't read the whole

754
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,239
thing here, but essentially what happens is they show up

755
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,199
and there's a there's a hermit on this island, and

756
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:35,599
he's really really happy to see them, and Saint Brendan says,

757
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:40,039
we can't trust this hermit, you know. But he basically

758
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,519
brings them, brings them into this house. And they come

759
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:46,719
into the house and the house is full of it says,

760
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,280
indescribably long and wide, with many chased vessels. And this

761
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,360
is probably a culturally specific reference here, and well maybe not,

762
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,440
maybe it's symbolic or both. And old mounted bridles. So

763
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,639
there are these these bridles, like you know, like for

764
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,320
a horse that are but they're really rich and they're

765
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,719
like you know, chased with gold and things like this.

766
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:12,039
So they come into this hall. The idea is like

767
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:15,360
it's like this big chieftain's house and there the food

768
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,880
is really good. There's uh a board spread with a

769
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,360
covering of all various colors, bread of strange whiteness, and

770
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:28,360
a quantity of excellent fish, and so Saint Brendan blesses

771
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,960
the food. They say a prayer you actually get kind

772
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,320
of this old Celtic breast blessing prayer in the in

773
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,159
the in the text actually, which is lovely. And then

774
00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:39,920
they sit down and he says okay, we need to

775
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,760
pray our hours, and so they do prayers, and but

776
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,440
whenever they fall as when they fall asleep, Brendan stays awake.

777
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,719
He stays vigilant in the hall, and he sees the

778
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:57,039
hermit their host as this evil spirit who's walking around

779
00:41:57,079 --> 00:41:59,760
and takes one of the golden bridles and says, and

780
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,079
into the bosom of one of the brethren. And this

781
00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:05,679
is one of the three brothers who showed up as

782
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,400
the late to the ship. Right, So now we know

783
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,679
what's going to happen to this guy, right. And so

784
00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:15,320
they start to leave. And one of the things that

785
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,679
Saint Brendan told them when they arrived and the island

786
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,519
is is you can't steal anything, even the water. And

787
00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:24,159
so when they get ready to leave, they get on

788
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:33,119
the they're getting on the ship and Brendan says, we

789
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:36,719
can't get on board because one of you has stolen something.

790
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:40,199
And they all say, you know, Forvid your father, any

791
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,800
theft should stay in our journey, and Brenda says, there's

792
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,719
a golden bridle under the armpit of the brother of

793
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,400
whom I spoke to you last night, and a theft

794
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,039
which the devil gave him then the brother heard this,

795
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:52,840
he cast the bridle from him and prostrated himself before

796
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,519
Brendan and said, oh, beloved father, I have sinned beyond doubt,

797
00:42:55,519 --> 00:42:57,280
But pity me and pray for my.

798
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: Soul, that my soul and body be not damned.

799
00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: And then Brendan basically expels the demon from the island

800
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,000
and tells him not to torment another human being until

801
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:10,679
the day of judgment.

802
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: So they're at least down by one now.

803
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:19,559
Speaker 1: And then Brendan says to the brother who carried the

804
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,320
who stole the bridle, so I remember a moment ago,

805
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,480
I said, now we know what happens to this guy.

806
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: Surprise, surprise.

807
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: This turns out to be the brother who is saved,

808
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:33,719
because Brendan says to him, receive the body and blood

809
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,400
of Christ, and then your soul is going to depart

810
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,480
from your body, and you're going to be buried here

811
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:47,559
on this island, and the brothers who came with you

812
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:50,480
from the monastery, their resurrection is going to be in hell.

813
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: He repeats that again.

814
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:58,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so he's rough. Here is a rough team.

815
00:43:58,639 --> 00:44:01,519
Speaker 1: So he takes communion and he dies and he's buried,

816
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,079
and that's the one of the three who.

817
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,559
Speaker 2: That's the one of the three who who we're seeing.

818
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 3: We're seeing, so we're seeing a few things going on.

819
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 4: One of the things is that this is definitely decidedly

820
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,679
a contrast to the other island. On the other island,

821
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:22,079
you had a bunch of rats that are going to

822
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:24,639
eat you, and here you have a bunch of bridles

823
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,400
without animals. You have things that are meant to control animals.

824
00:44:29,039 --> 00:44:32,480
Uh So, principality basically the idea of a spirit or

825
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:35,960
something something that you think about that that's great though, Yeah,

826
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:39,119
something that is, and that it has a royal there's

827
00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:41,000
a royal element to it, like you know, it's like

828
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,880
all these these very fancy things. And so you kind

829
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,360
of get these two opposites, uh you know, let's say,

830
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:53,599
looking at each other. And so interestingly enough, the you know,

831
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:57,719
the spirit is trying to so that the the the

832
00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:03,840
animals want to eat the person and then they ultimately

833
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,239
are given the person to eat, but not before they're saved.

834
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,840
And now this this guy, what he wants to do

835
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,760
is he basically wants to let's say, infiltrate or or

836
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,480
it's like he's like his hidden power. He wants to

837
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,199
impose his hidden power on the group and then he fails.

838
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,800
But nonetheless the person who participated that it's to his

839
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,360
salvation and he stays there and is buried there. Does

840
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,320
it say that the that the that the fool is

841
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:42,159
buried on the island with the rats. Yes, okay, So

842
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:44,559
so then I think what you're also seeing is a

843
00:45:44,679 --> 00:45:46,800
kind of salvation of.

844
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 3: These islands, Like you're basically seeing these.

845
00:45:48,639 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 4: Islands being colonized for Christ for all intentsive purposes by

846
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,760
burying a saint there and making them like transforming them.

847
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,440
And so you see that, so they satiate the rats

848
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,840
and then they can go there and bury him there.

849
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:04,960
Then they chase the demon a way and then now

850
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,280
are able to And so I think we're also seeing

851
00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:12,880
a type of spiritual colonization of the wild world.

852
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,519
Speaker 2: That's that's such a good point.

853
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: And the there is definitely I mean, this isn't all

854
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,159
Christian like ancient Christian traditions, Okay, this idea that that

855
00:46:23,199 --> 00:46:27,239
you have to build a church on top of a saint,

856
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,679
like on top of a martyr, on top of somebody

857
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,639
who you know, who has has been shown to be

858
00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:35,440
a holy person. There are some extreme examples of this

859
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,480
in Celtic storytelling, some of which are like almost like

860
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:43,800
too dark to tell. I have I have this one

861
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,559
story I was telling Martin about it back in February.

862
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,440
I have this one story that I've been I've been

863
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,039
trying to write about one of these instances, which which

864
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,000
like I've never been able to finish it because the

865
00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:58,960
actual story is terrifying and dark. And but but it's

866
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,199
based on this idea that you have to build a

867
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:08,000
church over a Christian body basically, and this does seem

868
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:12,880
to be in some ways an inversion or transformation of

869
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,559
the old So in some pagan societies, including the Irish,

870
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,159
there's this idea that if you're going to build a building,

871
00:47:20,199 --> 00:47:23,320
you have to bury somebody alive under the foundation of

872
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,480
the building. It's basically like to appease the old gods

873
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,039
of the land, you have to bury somebody under the foundation,

874
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,679
usually a slave, right, And so what happens with the

875
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,400
Irish Church is that the slaves of Christ give their life,

876
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,159
they give their bands.

877
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, to the land to become the foundation for civilization.

878
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

879
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,079
Speaker 4: The idea that civilization is based on sacrifice is something

880
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:49,800
that most people have understood and like you said, embodied

881
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,480
it in the weirdest surprising ways and sometimes very dark ways.

882
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,840
But you know, the canaan Abel story is not a

883
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,119
right that ridiculous. The foundation of Rome is all of

884
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:02,039
these these stories have to do with the idea of

885
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:04,760
a kind of human sacrifice before the foundation of a city,

886
00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:07,199
and so I think you're probably right that in some

887
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,679
ways it's showing how Christ transformed that to self sacrifice,

888
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,599
and that that is actually how you found the right

889
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:15,360
type of city.

890
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll maybe, I'll I'll tell you the other story later.

891
00:48:19,519 --> 00:48:20,920
I mean, people who are in the no can probably

892
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,599
guess what it is, but I'm not gonna I'm not

893
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:24,639
gonna tell it today because it's a little dark and

894
00:48:24,679 --> 00:48:25,800
I don't want to get distracted.

895
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: But so the next island, the next island is Oh.

896
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,800
The other thing I should mention is that as they're

897
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:39,599
leaving the island of the the Bridles, a young man

898
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:43,000
comes up to their ship, and it's very obvious that

899
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:46,079
the young man is Christ. It's like this beautiful youth

900
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,679
comes up with like a basket of bread and a

901
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,719
vessel full of water, and he gives it to them,

902
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,800
and he says, this is going to last, and you won't.

903
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: Need anything else until Easter.

904
00:48:57,039 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: And then they sail away, right, and so it's kind

905
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,360
of like it was like, don't steal anything from the island,

906
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,440
even the water. And now that they've kind of passed

907
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,920
the tests of the island, they're given the water and

908
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,920
the bread that they need for their journey. Now, one

909
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,119
of the main preoccupations with of the of the Voyage

910
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:15,199
of Saint Brendan.

911
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: Is how the.

912
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:26,679
Speaker 1: How the uh, let's say, how do you keep the

913
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:31,000
liturgical calendar when you're in three boats out in the

914
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,880
middle of the North Atlantic, right, And so we get

915
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,360
a lot of detail about, you know, they they arrive

916
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,000
at this island just in time for Easter, and then

917
00:49:40,039 --> 00:49:42,239
they're given the things that they need to celebrate Easter

918
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,519
there by hermit and then and then they travel on

919
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:48,039
to an island called the Paradise of Birds, which is

920
00:49:48,119 --> 00:49:51,119
which is of course, is where they celebrate Pentecost. I mean,

921
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:52,800
where else would you would you do that?

922
00:49:55,679 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 2: And there's there's.

923
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: A ton of stuff in here about like certain sheep

924
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,320
on certain islands and what makes the sheep grow big

925
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,119
and all this different stuff, and it's like we probably

926
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:09,960
like every single one of these things. There seems to

927
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,039
be something about the animals that you meet, you know,

928
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:16,480
from island to island. And so this island, which is

929
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,599
where they celebrate Pasca, right, is full of sheep, right,

930
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:22,519
but the sheeper as big as cows right there, and

931
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:27,320
they're docile. They follow the monks around, and there's definitely

932
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,519
like this is kind of a paradiscle place already, and

933
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:34,440
this is where they celebrate. This is where they celebrate Easter,

934
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:38,400
and that's where they receive the and even mentions them

935
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,320
doing like the foot watching service and things like that.

936
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,119
That's where but that's where they celebrate Easter, and that's

937
00:50:43,159 --> 00:50:44,559
where they receive provisions to.

938
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 2: Go on their way. They get to the Island of Birds.

939
00:50:48,840 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: And there's so many, so many things that I could

940
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:02,760
talk about here.

941
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:02,679
Speaker 2: You know.

942
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,079
Speaker 1: The last thing that is maybe, oh my gosh, so

943
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,079
I hate to make a two parter, especially when when

944
00:51:11,639 --> 00:51:13,760
Martin's going to talk about this in his course. But

945
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,320
so the let me just put this out here is

946
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,079
like maybe the the okay, let's do let's do two more.

947
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:29,480
Let's do two more every single one of these islands.

948
00:51:29,519 --> 00:51:35,280
And there's there's several different islands because Brendan makes multiple voyages,

949
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,880
and each voyage is like a certain number of years,

950
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,679
and you know, you get these different islands, and these

951
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,440
could be like you know, various legends that people put together.

952
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,039
Speaker 3: You know, it's not just one voyage he comes back.

953
00:51:47,079 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: Not just one voyage. That's right. There's the Isle, there's

954
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,960
the Isle of Dwarves. There's the Boy, the Island of

955
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,920
Paul the Hermit, you know from Egypt.

956
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 3: There's this story of an island.

957
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Paul the Hermit's on an island like alive. Yeah.

958
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,679
Speaker 3: There's there's so many I never I don't remember any

959
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:13,119
of There's.

960
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 2: So many crazy things.

961
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: There's uh, there's the island that is like the the Okay,

962
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,440
I'm gonna give you dealer's choice here. I'm gonna or

963
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:23,800
not dealer's choice to the opposite of that, all right,

964
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,519
So you guse get your pick. Do you want to do, uh,

965
00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:29,159
do you want to do the story of the Isle

966
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:32,239
of the Demon Smithy or do you want to do

967
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,679
the the story of the Island of the Intoxicating Waters.

968
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 4: Like he's making you two between those two. I know,

969
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:42,679
I like the I mean, obviously the demon Smithy wins.

970
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: Oh, we gotta do that. Yeah, okay, all right.

971
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: So, as Brandon was traversing the ocean, he saw an

972
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,760
island near him, hideous, dark, mountainous and rocky, with a

973
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,360
rugged summit without trees or herbs, full.

974
00:52:55,199 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: Of houses like forges. Uh.

975
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: So they get close to the island, and Brendan says

976
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,119
to the brothers, I'm afraid of this island for your sake.

977
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,199
It's not my will that we would go there if

978
00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:09,280
we could avoid it. But the wind is driving us

979
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,039
straight towards it. So when they're no more than stones

980
00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:15,719
flow from the island. They hear the thunderous working of

981
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,280
the bellows being blown, the clang of the hammers as

982
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,960
they smite the anvils, and great fear seizes them. And

983
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,039
of course they did Monsole make the suny of the cross,

984
00:53:25,199 --> 00:53:27,440
Lord Jesus Christ delivers from the focalist island. And it

985
00:53:27,519 --> 00:53:30,960
says after this they saw a couple hideously black like

986
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,719
the color of the smith's coal, coming out of the forges,

987
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,000
as if they were going to do some work or other.

988
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:40,559
And when they saw God's people, and I should say,

989
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:43,239
by the way, this is a little like each of

990
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:49,679
the islands gets more extreme, like there's definitely a progression

991
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,039
like the first two are, you know, like there's some

992
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:53,119
clear symbolism at work.

993
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: And as we get further and further out.

994
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,639
Speaker 1: So this is this is like island number thirty nine

995
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,360
or something in the right. So they see these two

996
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,280
demons coming out of the forge, and when they see

997
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,159
God's people, they turn back again into the forges and

998
00:54:08,199 --> 00:54:11,840
brought out two charges of molten iron red hot, which

999
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,960
they held with tongs in their hands, and rushing eagerly

1000
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,480
to the shore, they cast them at the boat. This

1001
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:19,800
did no harm to them, for such was not God's will,

1002
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,199
for they passed over the head some distance beyond the boat.

1003
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,519
After this, God said a following wind to Brendan's company

1004
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:28,760
from the side of the island, and out of the

1005
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,679
same forges they're issued an innumerable hideous and diabolic band

1006
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,719
carrying fiery charges like these molten bits of metal to

1007
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:45,440
cast at them. And basically they they continue to sort

1008
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,519
of charge these until it makes the sea boil. And

1009
00:54:50,159 --> 00:54:52,000
it says the cries and shrieks they uttered were heard

1010
00:54:52,039 --> 00:54:55,480
from were heard after they were out of sight. And

1011
00:54:55,519 --> 00:54:58,559
then basically the sea boiling creates this tide that kind

1012
00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:02,679
of pushes bread and his ships away from the island,

1013
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,239
and that's the that's the story, like it's it's this,

1014
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:10,000
it's again, it's just very very strange, and it's kind

1015
00:55:10,039 --> 00:55:13,599
of like this like Volcanic Island with these demons working forges.

1016
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,320
You know, there's like shades of vulcan or hef Aestus

1017
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,760
there and even all the relations that that.

1018
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 2: That has would have had in.

1019
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: The Irish mind to like purgatorial imagery, which he talked

1020
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,480
about previously.

1021
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,519
Speaker 4: I mean, it all makes it all makes sense, okay,

1022
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:33,559
So question so he said, there that island with Paul,

1023
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,559
with the hermit alder hermit. So for people who don't know,

1024
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:39,199
some people might not know, but that there in the

1025
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,320
legend of San Antony, in the story of sant Anthony,

1026
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:43,519
there's a sense in which we tend to think of

1027
00:55:43,519 --> 00:55:47,920
sant Antony as like the first hermit, saying, but in

1028
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,400
his story there is this mysterious character called Paul the Hermit,

1029
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,559
who is already like a hermit. He's basically a monk

1030
00:55:54,639 --> 00:55:58,280
before monks. He and the and the and his origin.

1031
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,559
No one knows what it is like, we don't really

1032
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,719
know what he is, you know, how he became a monk.

1033
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,039
He's just a monk and he's there and Anthony learned

1034
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:11,639
from him, and so it's just it's just fascinating that

1035
00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:14,400
they would integrate that into the story of.

1036
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,559
Speaker 2: The Yeah, that's definitely an Egyptian link. So so there's

1037
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:20,199
something that I should I did a bad job telling

1038
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,599
the story of the Devils with the Molten Metal. And

1039
00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:26,480
the reason I did a bad job is because that

1040
00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:31,760
story is related to the torment of Judas. And I

1041
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,639
know you're going to want to hear about this. Okay,

1042
00:56:34,119 --> 00:56:34,519
let me see.

1043
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 3: This is one of the islands.

1044
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: This is one of the islands, right, So they're voyaging

1045
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:46,360
on the sea. They leave one island where they lose

1046
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,800
one of the guys, and they get onto this next

1047
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,199
island and they see what appears to be a man

1048
00:56:53,639 --> 00:56:56,239
like on a rock, like just on this rock out

1049
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,280
in the middle of the ocean, and one of the

1050
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,079
guy says, that's a bird, and Brendan says, no, no, no,

1051
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,800
let's get closer and see what it is. And so

1052
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,199
they get closer and they see a man sitting on

1053
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,119
the stone and the likeness of a cloak or other

1054
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:12,719
garment suspended on two iron forks before him. So there's

1055
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,880
like these two iron forks and they're holding some kind

1056
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,880
of a garment before him, and he's being tormented among

1057
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,760
the waves. The cloak basically like whipping in his face,

1058
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:25,760
smiting him under the eyes. He's being dragged off the rock,

1059
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,440
is being tossed on to it again by the waves,

1060
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,199
all these different things. And Brendan says, what's going on?

1061
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,679
And who are you and why are you being tormented

1062
00:57:36,719 --> 00:57:39,360
this way? And he says, I'm that evil chapman Judas

1063
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,599
who delivered the Lord Jesus Christ.

1064
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: Into the hands of the Jews.

1065
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: But it is not this place which is my acquittal,

1066
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,360
but by the mercy of the Lord and in honor

1067
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:48,679
of the resurrection.

1068
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 2: I have this ease. So this is on parrot Is

1069
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:51,880
on Easter.

1070
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,559
Speaker 1: So on Easter Judas gets let out of Hell and

1071
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:59,280
he's on this rock and he's still being tormented, but it's.

1072
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:01,639
Speaker 2: Not quite so bad. By the way.

1073
00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: This idea of like a refrigerium, like a little break

1074
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,480
for the souls and torment on easter Is is a

1075
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:12,199
pretty old belief, certainly a minority tradition, but it's something

1076
00:58:12,199 --> 00:58:14,559
you find in like a lot of apocalyptic literature, like

1077
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:17,920
the Visiopoli and things like that, and it's usually like

1078
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,480
the Virgin Mary or Saint Paul or somebody intercedes for

1079
00:58:21,519 --> 00:58:24,320
the damned and they're given like kind of like a

1080
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,280
day off. Again, this is not a dogmatic teaching of

1081
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,880
anybody's church. I just need to be really clear about this.

1082
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,079
So I don't get you know, canceled, but that is

1083
00:58:34,199 --> 00:58:37,360
that is. This is like a traditional thing in certain

1084
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:40,960
especially in like monastic literature, and so a.

1085
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 4: Beautiful image in the sense that it is. It is

1086
00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:47,719
a glimmer, right, you know, a glimmer that the resurrection

1087
00:58:48,599 --> 00:58:52,119
and that ultimately the final moment or the final resurrection

1088
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,360
holds some mysteries that are not as obvious as we

1089
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:55,880
might think.

1090
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what Judas says is that this state is

1091
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,119
like being in Paradise compared to my state in hell.

1092
00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:08,079
In Hell, yeah yeah, and Andy says, and compared with

1093
00:59:08,159 --> 00:59:10,079
what will be inflicted on me this night on the

1094
00:59:10,119 --> 00:59:14,079
Fiery Mountain where is Leviathan and his companions and where

1095
00:59:14,119 --> 00:59:15,440
the brother was snatched from you.

1096
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,239
Speaker 1: So this is referencing the previous island. It says there

1097
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:21,239
they assail me, that is, and it says I am

1098
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,800
smelted like lead in an earthen pot. So there's a

1099
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,280
connection between this and the island of the demon. Smithy's right,

1100
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:29,880
I'm smelted like lead in an earthen pot. And I

1101
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,559
was with them when the brother came to them. That's

1102
00:59:32,599 --> 00:59:35,239
the second. That's the brother that got snatched. That's the

1103
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,920
third of the three that showed up late.

1104
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: So there's one.

1105
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 3: Did they tell us how the two monks got all right?

1106
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,719
Speaker 1: So one of Bowie, I'm gonna have to remember, Well,

1107
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,440
one of them get snatched away by demons and basically

1108
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,320
thrown into lava, and I don't remember how the other

1109
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,199
one dies right now, But anyway, they both come to

1110
00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:53,639
bad as.

1111
00:59:54,079 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 4: That they're like, yeah, you know, Brandon says that we

1112
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,639
should still go on this trip.

1113
00:59:58,719 --> 01:00:02,159
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is like, let's be honest about ourselves

1114
01:00:02,159 --> 01:00:04,280
and say, like, if you show up, if you show

1115
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,320
up with like two of your buddies and the holy

1116
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:07,800
Man that you want to travel with, and you're like,

1117
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,559
we're gonna starve ourselves to death if you don't let

1118
01:00:09,639 --> 01:00:11,920
us on your boat. And the holy Man says, sure,

1119
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,519
one of you is going to heaven and the other

1120
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:15,360
two of you are going to hell. I think a

1121
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,440
lot of us would be like, I'm obviously the good one.

1122
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, but once the guy goes to heaven the other

1123
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:22,960
they should have seen the.

1124
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: Well at that point you're on the boat man, It's

1125
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:25,920
like where else are you gonna go?

1126
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 3: Where are you gonna go? All right?

1127
01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:35,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he says, uh, there they assail me. I'm

1128
01:00:35,719 --> 01:00:37,800
smelted like lead and earthen pot.

1129
01:00:39,039 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 6: And uh.

1130
01:00:41,679 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: Uh.

1131
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,119
Speaker 1: Anyway, so and then he says, oh, and of course

1132
01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:49,719
we need to figure out why does Judas get this?

1133
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:54,440
Why did he get this little, uh little reprieve. So

1134
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,079
Brendan says, what's the garment which smites the under the eyes?

1135
01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:00,599
And Judas says, it is a garment which I gave

1136
01:01:00,599 --> 01:01:02,159
to a poor man out of the portion of my

1137
01:01:02,199 --> 01:01:04,639
Lord when I was his chamberlain. So remember that Judas

1138
01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:08,599
had the purse. He's in charge of distributing the alms. Right,

1139
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:12,079
But as it was not mine to give, it turns

1140
01:01:12,159 --> 01:01:13,239
to my loss now and.

1141
01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 2: Not to my ease.

1142
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,079
Speaker 1: And the stone on which you see me sitting is

1143
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:17,800
a stone which I laid down on the public road

1144
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,039
when I was in the second life, before I became

1145
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,000
a disciple of the Lord. So this idea of here

1146
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,880
are these things that Judas did in his life. And

1147
01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:30,199
it's like the story of the Onion in Dostoyevsky, you know,

1148
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:37,559
except that it's not because because Judas Judas was a thief,

1149
01:01:37,559 --> 01:01:40,320
he had the purse, you know, all these things, but

1150
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,000
even the things that he did distribute were not actually

1151
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:44,719
his to distribute, right.

1152
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 4: And it's related to the It's related to the servant,

1153
01:01:48,159 --> 01:01:51,039
like that story that is so hard to understand, the

1154
01:01:51,079 --> 01:01:55,719
servant that gives away his master's debt, that gives away

1155
01:01:55,719 --> 01:01:57,519
the debt even though it's not his to give and

1156
01:01:57,559 --> 01:02:01,519
then and then he like shrewd because he does that.

1157
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: Except in this case, this this is like his reprieve

1158
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:06,440
but also it's his torment.

1159
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 3: At the same time, both at the same time. Yeah, right,

1160
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,880
I mean, very very mysterious. This stuff is.

1161
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:20,079
Speaker 1: This stuff is very very h strange. And how many

1162
01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:24,719
of these islands are there, man, I don't even know

1163
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,119
because there's so many of them. I haven't like sat

1164
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:28,880
down and counted them.

1165
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 2: I should have.

1166
01:02:29,519 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: I should have counted, Jonathan, but I was I was

1167
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,440
really just trying to like immerse myself on the story.

1168
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,519
But there's so many different things. There's the island with

1169
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:41,159
a giant griffin on it. There's you know, and then

1170
01:02:41,159 --> 01:02:44,920
eventually you know, he finds the Land of Promise. And

1171
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:47,320
but but the whole story of just the Land of

1172
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,920
Promise itself is so long, we'd have to.

1173
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,119
Speaker 2: Do a video on it, like just a video on it, and.

1174
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:55,679
Speaker 1: Maybe we will, uh the maybe the last thing, well,

1175
01:02:55,679 --> 01:02:58,400
I'll mention two things. One is just to further scandalized

1176
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,000
people in case they're still watching this video. At this point,

1177
01:03:01,239 --> 01:03:04,360
when the demons show up to torment Judas, Saint Brendan

1178
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,719
tells them to leave him alone.

1179
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, give him his day of reprieve.

1180
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: And Brendan says it.

1181
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: And the demons say, why do you invoke the name

1182
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,559
of the Lord on behalf of yonder Man when it

1183
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:18,000
was he who delivered up the Lord to cross and passion,

1184
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:24,280
And Brendan just says leave him alone. Wow and uh.

1185
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:29,119
And then when they leave the demon's curse Brendan, they say, oh,

1186
01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:30,800
servant of God, a curse would be thy journey to

1187
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:35,159
us because our Lord treated us with contumely because we

1188
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:38,400
have not yet exhibited him his special servitor. And Brenda says,

1189
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,719
your curse shall be turned into a blessing for me.

1190
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:44,280
For whoever you curse shall be blessed, and whoever you

1191
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,119
blessed will be a cursed. And then the demons are like, well,

1192
01:03:49,199 --> 01:03:50,760
as soon as he gets back in here, we're going

1193
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,400
to torture him extra just to show you. And Brennan's like,

1194
01:03:55,199 --> 01:03:57,800
I mean, there's there's this long exchange of smack talk

1195
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,840
between Brennan and the demons. But what Brenda basically tells

1196
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,800
them tells the demons is you don't have power even

1197
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,840
in hell. So you're gonna torment them exactly as much

1198
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:13,840
as God allows you and know more mm hm, and

1199
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,679
and it says nevertheless, the demons.

1200
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 2: Were bound to fulfill the commands of Brendan. So that

1201
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,800
is that is a story man.

1202
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,119
Speaker 4: That is some wild stuff and so and so then

1203
01:04:26,159 --> 01:04:27,840
the final land is the Land of prompts.

1204
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:28,639
Speaker 3: Will do a video on that.

1205
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, so your I have a question, like I actually

1206
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,719
it's such a weird thing that I'm asking this because

1207
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,599
it's always the last person to try to mix uh,

1208
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,159
these types of stories with more historical considerations.

1209
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:43,599
Speaker 2: You know what I'm gonna ask, I know what you're

1210
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:44,079
gonna ask.

1211
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:45,719
Speaker 3: So there there are.

1212
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 4: People that have surmised the possibility that in fact, Brandan.

1213
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,320
You know, you know that obviously the story of Brandon,

1214
01:04:52,639 --> 01:04:56,159
although some of it is somewhat fantastical and accumulation of legends,

1215
01:04:56,159 --> 01:04:58,719
that it is based on something that's real in the

1216
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,159
sense real in the sense of history oracle like that, actually,

1217
01:05:01,199 --> 01:05:04,320
this is something that happened, and that that the possibility

1218
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:05,320
that Brendan came.

1219
01:05:05,239 --> 01:05:08,039
Speaker 3: To yeah, to the big land on this side.

1220
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:13,719
Speaker 1: Obviously, the the land making, making Canada paradise is what

1221
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:19,800
you're trying to say, right, So, I think there could

1222
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:23,360
be something to that, and certainly, like people have proven

1223
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:24,880
that it's feasible.

1224
01:05:25,519 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 2: Now when you think about like.

1225
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,559
Speaker 1: The multiple voyages and what's the what's the meaning of

1226
01:05:29,559 --> 01:05:31,880
these different islands and things like that, it's obvious that

1227
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,880
Brendan is moving through myth. And I'm certainly not the

1228
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,599
kind of person, you know, I'm absolutely the wrong person

1229
01:05:37,639 --> 01:05:40,920
to tell you all of these things are just only allegorical,

1230
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,719
because because I think they're much stronger than that, and

1231
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:50,199
there there's definitely the sense of wildness. I think that

1232
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,280
I think that if it's true, and I again, I

1233
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,920
think there's no reason to doubt that it was, it

1234
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,199
was doable, and that it was possible that if it's

1235
01:05:57,239 --> 01:06:00,440
true that and and you know that the land of

1236
01:06:00,519 --> 01:06:04,119
Promise that that Brendan you know, made his way to

1237
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:10,199
is in some way, you know, like North America. There

1238
01:06:10,199 --> 01:06:16,400
are some some interesting implications for thinking about the symbolism

1239
01:06:16,599 --> 01:06:19,880
of what it means to be, you know, a North American,

1240
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:23,639
because certainly Brendan probably didn't wash up in you know, Florida,

1241
01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:28,480
but so I'll say North American, not American. But there's

1242
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:32,239
there's there's something interesting there. I want to talk about

1243
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,360
that more next time, because there's two things that I

1244
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:35,800
want to say to kind of close this video out.

1245
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 2: I know it's been a little long. One is that.

1246
01:06:40,199 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: The story of Saint Brendan's life doesn't end with his

1247
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:47,639
finding Paradise, because when he finds Paradise, after a seven

1248
01:06:47,719 --> 01:06:51,280
year voyage and then a second voyage after that, he

1249
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,039
comes back to Ireland and he spends the rest of

1250
01:06:54,079 --> 01:07:00,480
his life working miracles and building monasteries, and uh, we'll

1251
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:01,360
cover all of that.

1252
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: I think we'll just have to do another Saint Brendan video.

1253
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:04,840
I think that's the best way to do this.

1254
01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:09,159
Speaker 1: Because we haven't even talked about, you know, celebrating Pasca

1255
01:07:09,199 --> 01:07:11,280
on the back of Leviathan, and like all the other

1256
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:15,159
great things from the Nevagazio that that we haven't had

1257
01:07:15,159 --> 01:07:17,159
time to cover yet, So we'll do that for our

1258
01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:20,239
next video. But the thing that I want to point

1259
01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:26,199
out is that Brendan has this desire for paradise, which

1260
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:31,079
causes him, which motivates him to forsake the world and.

1261
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:36,079
Speaker 2: To move in to begin to move towards Paradise.

1262
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:44,039
Speaker 1: And along the way, what you have happening is this winnowing, right,

1263
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:45,719
And so we lose this brother to this thing. We

1264
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:47,480
lose this brother just thing. And some of these guys

1265
01:07:47,519 --> 01:07:49,039
go to Paradise and some of them go to Hell,

1266
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:54,519
but Brendan doesn't get to die, right, And so there's

1267
01:07:54,559 --> 01:07:58,639
this winnowing that happens, which is in it's the winnowing

1268
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:02,559
of Brendan's soul, the winning wing of our soul right

1269
01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:05,719
as we undertake this journey. But the thing that it

1270
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:09,000
eventually results in is for Brendan, as one of the

1271
01:08:09,079 --> 01:08:13,320
twelve Apostles of Ireland, to found the Irish Church and

1272
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:17,319
to establish the Irish people. And those are parts of

1273
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:20,439
his story which most people have forgotten. This stuff in

1274
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,560
the voyage is the weird stuff, that's what people remember.

1275
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,000
But in the earliest lives of Saint Brendan, the voyage

1276
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,359
stuff is kind of I wouldn't say handwaved, but it's

1277
01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:35,399
not even emphasized to the same degree that Brendan's work

1278
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:39,800
as as somebody who created Irish civilization, Irish culture is.

1279
01:08:40,399 --> 01:08:42,399
And obviously we think usually think of Saint Patrick in

1280
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,680
that role, but Saint Brendan is one of the other

1281
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,159
people who has that who has that role for the

1282
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:47,920
Irish people.

1283
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,079
Speaker 2: And so it's a.

1284
01:08:50,039 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: Way of seeing the way that our longing for paradise

1285
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:59,359
and desire to forsake this world paradoxically results in saints

1286
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,199
who stablished the world. When you say something like the

1287
01:09:02,239 --> 01:09:06,680
Saints uphold the world, this is what that means. And

1288
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,119
if we're going to be that kind of person, if

1289
01:09:09,119 --> 01:09:11,520
we're going to do that kind of work, and I'll say,

1290
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,600
you know, whatever, you know, church you find yourself in. Certainly,

1291
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,479
if you're an Orthodox Christian in American's day and you're

1292
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,000
really struggling with the whole convert thing, and you're really

1293
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,560
struggling with the whole culturation thing, what I want to

1294
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,800
encourage you to do is actually pump the breaks a

1295
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,319
little bit on the end culturation. I joke, and I

1296
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,279
think some people took it too seriously and freaked out

1297
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:34,680
a little bit. But I joke about someday when there's

1298
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,600
you know, the Autocephalist Church of Texas and Guacamal has

1299
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,760
replaced a hummus as a Lenten dip of choice, right,

1300
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:42,439
you know, I joke about, you know, what will that?

1301
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 2: You know, what will that be like?

1302
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:49,560
Speaker 1: But the truth is that we need to pump the

1303
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,800
brakes a little bit on worrying about all of this

1304
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,680
stuff and like is our is our music really American yet?

1305
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,760
And like all this stuff, and you know, and I'm

1306
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:59,960
not against those those attempts, some of them are quite beautiful.

1307
01:10:00,039 --> 01:10:03,159
But for the most part, you know, we can afford

1308
01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:05,479
to be a little less agitated, a little more trusting

1309
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,119
in God, but also first and foremost, I mean fundamentally

1310
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,960
focused on the life of prayer and asceticism that we're

1311
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:19,119
called to His Christians, father Sarah from Rose. One of

1312
01:10:19,119 --> 01:10:22,479
my favorite things about him, and this is something that

1313
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,760
I heard around the celebration of his repose last year,

1314
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,800
is that, you know, after he died, that go in

1315
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,319
and then cleaning out all those things. And he has

1316
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,079
he's a prayer book, you know, just you know, like

1317
01:10:35,079 --> 01:10:36,560
like I don't know if it's exactly the same, but

1318
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,920
like one of the little read Jordanville prayer books basically

1319
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,319
you know nothing, you know every you know, that's part

1320
01:10:41,319 --> 01:10:44,239
of your orthobrostarter pack. Right, But he's got this prayer book.

1321
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,119
But the prayer book is the pages are stayed yellow

1322
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:51,920
with use, They're wrinkled from the continual falling of his

1323
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,760
tears on the pages. They're stained with wax from you know,

1324
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,399
just years and years of just using the same prayer

1325
01:10:58,399 --> 01:11:02,039
book and praying those prayers and weeping over his sins. Right,

1326
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:04,920
And I think he's really become a symbol for a

1327
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,720
lot of us who have converted to the Orthodox Faith.

1328
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,319
And I think rightly so. But the thing that we

1329
01:11:11,319 --> 01:11:13,520
need to remember about him isn't just like his huge

1330
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,880
literary output. It's his life of prayer, in his life

1331
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,960
of repentance. That's where in culturation begins. Right, don't worry

1332
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:26,239
about baptizing the culture. Just baptize your kids and trust

1333
01:11:26,319 --> 01:11:26,680
the church.

1334
01:11:27,239 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's great, that's a great call. That's a

1335
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:31,319
great call.

1336
01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:35,359
Speaker 4: And I can't wait to learn more about the voyage

1337
01:11:35,359 --> 01:11:37,279
of Brand. And it's funny because I think I know

1338
01:11:37,399 --> 01:11:38,159
the story, but.

1339
01:11:38,079 --> 01:11:40,520
Speaker 2: You're right, there's so many parts of it that's sick

1340
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:41,039
in mind.

1341
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 4: The virgins that I've encountered have been, you know, just

1342
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:46,840
shortened for consumption.

1343
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,079
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people just focus on the just

1344
01:11:49,119 --> 01:11:50,960
focus on the voyage as well, and they don't know

1345
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,079
about the other stuff. And I think some of the

1346
01:11:53,079 --> 01:11:55,760
weirder stuff in the voyage in the older sources, some

1347
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:58,119
of that got weeded out over time because people were like,

1348
01:11:58,159 --> 01:11:58,640
it's too weird.

1349
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:00,319
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with it. But I don't.

1350
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,239
But I promised to always find the weirdest stuff for you. Jonathan.

1351
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 3: There you go.

1352
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 4: We we that's what we need and don't And as

1353
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,960
Richard said, I would say, always remember how identity.

1354
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 3: Functions for Christians, you know, and that self sacrifice.

1355
01:12:13,079 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 4: Is the core and it's it, but it is affording

1356
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,279
of life, right, it doesn't.

1357
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:21,279
Speaker 3: Actually, it's that's that's the surprise of Christ.

1358
01:12:21,399 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 4: We have to stay attacked to So thanks everyone, and uh,

1359
01:12:26,399 --> 01:12:27,000
talk to you soon.

1360
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:28,199
Speaker 2: Talk to you soon.