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<v Speaker 1>This is the seventy seven WABC Mini cast.

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Dragon in New Mexico owns a radio station even

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<v Speaker 2>though it was attacked by terrorists, his tower was attacked,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet he pursues, He continues because he is a capitalist.

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Dragon, are you in Idaho, Iowa? Where are you today?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in New Mexico. And never say quit. You never

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<v Speaker 1>quit capitalists, never quit. I love the hour. What an

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<v Speaker 1>education on strip clubs though I had no idea, Walter

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating business persistence. And then you have that wonderful man

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<v Speaker 1>who has staying with his wife after all that time,

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<v Speaker 1>his second wife, and I got a full education on

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<v Speaker 1>car sterios. Who knew they should get it could get

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<v Speaker 1>so profitable.

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<v Speaker 2>Well to prevent them, to create the sleeve that enabled

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<v Speaker 2>you to just take it out when you left the car.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a very important device in the late nineties

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<v Speaker 2>because those car radios were being stolen like crazy, and

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<v Speaker 2>because they could come out, and so he had. What

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<v Speaker 2>he did was he ran a business that enabled you

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<v Speaker 2>to manage that and not have your car radio stolen.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a big problem. It was a big problem. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Dragon, New Mexico, what do you have to report,

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<v Speaker 2>bring us up to date on conspiracies, mysteries, everything you're an.

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<v Speaker 1>Expert on well England. On August nineteenth ninety, nineteen eighty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>Walter is literally at the forefront of the biggest gun

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<v Speaker 1>control of all of Europe. And it happened on this

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<v Speaker 1>day back in nineteen eighty seven. You're in Hungerford. There's

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<v Speaker 1>actually a song about this by the great band called Radiohead.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called Sulk and it's a fascinating story because this

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<v Speaker 1>is the beginning of massive gun control in the UK.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're back in Hungerford, which is a quiet market

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<v Speaker 1>town in Berkshire, about seventy miles west of London. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's the kind of place, Walter, where the biggest emergency

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<v Speaker 1>might be a fire or wreck, or you know, some

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<v Speaker 1>fight the pub or something. But it's a town of

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<v Speaker 1>small shops, country lanes, familiar faces and people who believe

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<v Speaker 1>they were removed from the kind of violence scene in

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<v Speaker 1>big cities or here in America. Then the gun fire

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<v Speaker 1>started and by the time the day was over, sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>innocent people are dead, another fifteen are wounded, and the

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<v Speaker 1>killer is dead too, or is he by his own hand?

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<v Speaker 1>His name was Michael Robert Ryan, twenty seven years of age, quiet, isolated,

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<v Speaker 1>fascinated by firearms, and according to the law at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>entitled to own them, though not today because Ryan possessed

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<v Speaker 1>certificates for shotguns and firearms, and in the months before

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<v Speaker 1>the attack, he legally bought three shotguns and five firearms,

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<v Speaker 1>and on the day he launched his rampage he had

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<v Speaker 1>a Burretta nine milimeters pistol, a Chinese type fifty six

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<v Speaker 1>semi automatic rifle no longer legal than England, and an

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<v Speaker 1>Underwood thirty caliber car. Buy no stolen weapons, no black

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<v Speaker 1>market cachet. It's just a you know, no exposure to

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<v Speaker 1>criminal gang pipelines. This guy was a legal weapons owner

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<v Speaker 1>in the hands the man that authorities had you know,

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<v Speaker 1>completely illegally allowed to own them. Now. The killing began

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<v Speaker 1>outside the town, then it moved into Hungerford itself. Ryan

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<v Speaker 1>shot people right in the open on streets in near homes.

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<v Speaker 1>He returned to his family house and then murdered his

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<v Speaker 1>own mother, Dorothy. He killed an unarmed police officer. D. C.

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<v Speaker 1>Roger Barrenton was responding to all the case, and he

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<v Speaker 1>fired at least one hundred and nineteen rounds during that rampage,

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<v Speaker 1>eighty four from that Chinese type fifty six rifle, thirty

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<v Speaker 1>four from the Barretta pistol, and one from the carbine.

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<v Speaker 1>So for the people of Hungerford, this was not a

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<v Speaker 1>distant breaking news story. This is nineteen eighty seven, right,

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<v Speaker 1>This wasn't playing on television like the way it would,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just six years and seven years later to

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<v Speaker 1>o the case of Oj, it was immediate. The danger

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<v Speaker 1>was outside their very doors. Sirens racing to the town

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<v Speaker 1>were you know, whirling, and you know, everything just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of complete untilal chaos and residents had to like hide

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<v Speaker 1>in their homes while the police tried to understand whether

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<v Speaker 1>they faced one shooter or ten shooters or something worse.

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<v Speaker 1>Because this man Ryan eventually entered the local school called

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<v Speaker 1>John o'gaunt. Police surrounded the building, the attempted to negotiate

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<v Speaker 1>with him, but the crisis ended without an arrest, the

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<v Speaker 1>satisfying arrest, without a trial, the satisfying trial, without a

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<v Speaker 1>complete explanation, in fact, no explanations, because Ryan died by

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<v Speaker 1>suicide inside the school, and that missing explanation is where

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<v Speaker 1>the whole mystery begins, because when the killer dies as

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<v Speaker 1>in any case, and the case dies with him. It

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't die in any court rooms where it should happen.

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<v Speaker 1>There was no confession. This man has no manifesto, no

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<v Speaker 1>final statement laying out political causes, a grudge lists, you know, motives. Nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>Investigators could reconstruct what Ryan did. They could count the rounds,

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<v Speaker 1>they could trace his legally acquired weapons, but they could

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<v Speaker 1>not answer the question that people always ask after an

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<v Speaker 1>apparently senseless mass killing. Why That vacuum created an entire

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<v Speaker 1>ecosystem of speculation in Britain. One theory claim that Ryan

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<v Speaker 1>had help another gunman accomplish you know, perhaps a criminal network,

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<v Speaker 1>and other suggested he was tied to an international arms dealer.

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<v Speaker 1>Still others pointed to supposed secret relationships, claims about his

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<v Speaker 1>private life, the unseen motive, and biling his first victim,

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<v Speaker 1>who was Susan Godfrey. They thought she was the target.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also cultural explanations Ryan was acting out some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of weird fantasy inspired by violent movies military imagery. Remember

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<v Speaker 1>this is nineteen eighty seven. This is like the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of all these mass shootings, or back in the nineteen eighties,

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<v Speaker 1>a fascination with some sort of lone wolf action heroes.

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<v Speaker 1>But here is the crucial line. For the record, none

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<v Speaker 1>of the series were established as fact. Never nothing, not

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<v Speaker 1>one investigation identified him as a soul attacker. That's it

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<v Speaker 1>could put end the story. No evidence, no credible evidence

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<v Speaker 1>surfaced of an accomplice, the secret organization of political plot

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<v Speaker 1>or coordinator operation, no manifesto, nothing, But that does not

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<v Speaker 1>make the unanswered questions disappear In all this, Walter, it

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<v Speaker 1>simply means that unanswered is not the same as proven.

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<v Speaker 1>And in a world that creates clean explanations like we

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<v Speaker 1>have with Charlie Kirk right, there's so much dissemination, of

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<v Speaker 1>so much misinformation. All of this gifts fits very uncomfortable,

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<v Speaker 1>and everything since this inception back in eighty seven until today,

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<v Speaker 1>with these mass shootings, has led to the very same

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<v Speaker 1>type of speculation, and in this case massive gun control,

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<v Speaker 1>and every time you see a mass shooting here in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States, massive more gun control that is on

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<v Speaker 1>the table again. People want to believe that there must

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<v Speaker 1>be some sort of hidden cause, and all this conspiracy,

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<v Speaker 1>a handler, a secret life, you know, some messages, a manifesto,

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes there is right, But sometimes the most unsettling

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<v Speaker 1>answer is that the killers, you know, wounds is mental state,

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<v Speaker 1>what have you, is just completely inaccessible. And that's the

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<v Speaker 1>worst mystery of all. His victims paid the price for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Hungerford did not produce, you know, any sort of visible

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<v Speaker 1>consequences in this case, but it did have one and

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<v Speaker 1>that is a complete and total radical shift in British

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<v Speaker 1>firearms policy. And this has become the blueprint there in

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<v Speaker 1>America and everywhere else. In Britain is the worst walter

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<v Speaker 1>or gun control before the massacre, and had gun licensing

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<v Speaker 1>everywhere Ryan had passed through the system. After the killings,

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<v Speaker 1>the public in Parliament demanded the answers. It's always fun

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<v Speaker 1>to watch them go after at each other. The Firearms

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<v Speaker 1>Amendment Act nineteen eighty eight banned most of the automatic

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<v Speaker 1>pump action rifles, Restrictaturton's shotguns ammunition, required shotgun owners to

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<v Speaker 1>register their weapons and keep them stored, and then came

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<v Speaker 1>the full surrender. This is where it gets even weirder.

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<v Speaker 1>Just this one gun incident. There was no amnesty. The

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<v Speaker 1>law took effect. It brought in nearly forty eight thousand

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<v Speaker 1>firearms immediately, lawful owners of newly prohibited weapons had to

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<v Speaker 1>hand them over, dispose of them legally, or face possessing

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<v Speaker 1>prohibited gun. And then the dark legacy just continues. Massacres

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<v Speaker 1>carried out with guns ahead been legally acquired, a killer

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<v Speaker 1>who left no credible final explanation, and then you have

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<v Speaker 1>all these guns being taken back, and this town permanently

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<v Speaker 1>branded by one afternoon of terror, thirty one victims, all

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen died, and an age that basically just responded by

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<v Speaker 1>deciding that every category of firearm would no longer be

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<v Speaker 1>left in private hands. So on this day, forty years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>Walter remember Hungerford, not for his mythology, not for the

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<v Speaker 1>conspiracy claims that flourished afterread, but for the sixteen people

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<v Speaker 1>who were actually murdered. In the moment, Britain actually realized

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<v Speaker 1>that its gun laws had failed to prevent catastrophe. And

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<v Speaker 1>I've gone through all of the massive gun laws of

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<v Speaker 1>Walter Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, Ireland at the very top of

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<v Speaker 1>the list, very worst. England. Private ownership of virtually all

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<v Speaker 1>cartridge handguns prohibited, along with automatic weapons, every self loading

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<v Speaker 1>center fire rifle, firearmy shotgun ownership requires police certification, lawful purpose,

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<v Speaker 1>complete and total background check, and they have to scan

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<v Speaker 1>the weapon, They have to scan the firearm, suitability checks,

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<v Speaker 1>mental suitability checks. By the way, secure storage meaning you

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<v Speaker 1>can't have it exposed anywhere. How are you going to

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<v Speaker 1>get to it self? Defense is generally not accepted as

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<v Speaker 1>a reason to acquire a gun.

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<v Speaker 2>And how many people who want to go How many

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<v Speaker 2>people were murdered in this mass murder event.

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<v Speaker 1>Sixteen with fifteen additional victims, so thirty one total victims

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<v Speaker 1>but sixteen actually actual fatalities.

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Dragon, an amazing story. Even the police in England

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<v Speaker 2>don't carry firearms. That's how controlled it is. And there

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<v Speaker 2>it is. It didn't make any difference at all. Somebody

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<v Speaker 2>wants to be a psycho. If somebody is a psycho,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to go ahead and figure out a way

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<v Speaker 2>to do it. Eddie Dragon, thank you very much for

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<v Speaker 2>being on the other side of midnight.