WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:05.240 What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Today, 2 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.960 we have an article from the Heritage Foundation, and this 3 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:13.039 article is talking about how the evidence was compiled against 4 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:18.039 Brian Cohberger and how that evidence complied with the Fourth Amendment. 5 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:21.559 I know there's been some questions about that and about 6 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:25.399 the genealogy that was used that led the authorities to 7 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:29.039 Brian Coberger, So I thought that this article would offer 8 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:31.120 a little bit of context and a little bit more 9 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.960 clarity about all of that. So let's just dive right 10 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:39.600 in and let's see what author Charles Cully Stimpson has 11 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:43.560 to say. Headline, how DNA and cell phone evidence in 12 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.759 Idaho murders complied with the Fourth Amendment. Now, remember that's 13 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:51.560 all very important, right, because if someone's constitutional rights are 14 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:56.000 stepped on by the investigators, by the police, they're going 15 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.520 to use that to their advantage and they should. And 16 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:02.479 there has been plenty of times where people who were 17 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:07.480 obviously guilty got off because the prosecution or the police 18 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.120 didn't do everything correctly. Now I'm not saying that happened here, 19 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.959 but it's always worth exploring. Right, the prosecution and the 20 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:18.599 government they have to be on their game and they 21 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:20.799 have to make sure they're doing things by the book, 22 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:23.840 and if they get caught cutting corners, then they should 23 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.200 have to pay the penalty for that. Did the police 24 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.159 violate the Fourth Amendment rights of the man accused of 25 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:35.000 slaying four college students in Idaho. Much has been made 26 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.640 of the fact that authorities relied in part on genetic 27 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:42.920 genealogy and DNA evidence to justify the arrest warrants in 28 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:46.719 this case, but the use of such technologies and the 29 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.000 way it was likely used in this case was lawful, 30 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.640 as was the use of self self site location information 31 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:58.120 used to track the movements of the suspect's phone. Police 32 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.599 have released a partially redacted after David that offers a 33 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.640 clearer picture of the facts of the case and the 34 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:09.240 evidence supporting the alleged killers arrest. And there's no doubt 35 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:13.840 that what they did was constitutional. When you go after 36 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.280 somebody like Brian Koberger and you conduct a trash pull 37 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:21.520 like they did in Pennsylvania, that is perfectly legal under 38 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.960 the Constitution of Pennsylvania. Once you discard trash by the 39 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:29.199 side of the road, it is now considered a free 40 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:31.759 for all. Right. Anyone can go and go through it 41 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:34.719 and look for whatever they want, and that includes the 42 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:40.360 police and the authorities DNA at the crime scene. The 43 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:43.719 four murder victims, all students at the University of Idaho, 44 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.919 were found in a house near the Moscow campus. Each 45 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:50.560 was stabbed to death between approximately four am and four 46 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:54.120 to twenty five am on November thirteenth, twenty twenty. Two 47 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.000 male and female victims were found stabbed to death in 48 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.759 a second floor bedroom. Two female victims were found in 49 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:04.319 a single bet on the third floor. Next to one 50 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.240 of the deceased girls was a tan leather knife sheath. 51 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:12.400 Forensic examination found DNA from an unknown male on the 52 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.400 sheaths button snap. And now, of course there's people out 53 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.199 there that will say that the sheath doesn't prove anything. 54 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.240 What if Brian Coberger was there previously. What if you 55 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.159 as friends with one of these girls, and I say, okay, 56 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.400 that's all fine and well, but there's gonna have to 57 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:31.039 be some proof of that. Right. You can't go in 58 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:33.680 front of a jury and just say whatever you want. 59 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:36.560 They're gonna demand proof of that. And while the burden 60 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:40.159 of proof is certainly on the prosecution, you can't just 61 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.840 say whatever you want is the defense and expect the 62 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.120 court to accept it. So they're going to have to 63 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.159 explain how that DNA got on the button of that sheath, 64 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.759 and from my seat here in the peanut gallery, I 65 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.120 just don't know how they plan on doing that self 66 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.719 cite location evidence, and this is the weakest evidence out 67 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.319 of all of it. If this was all they had, 68 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:06.240 I'd be laughing them right out of the courtroom. But 69 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:09.080 when you tie this together with the other stuff, well, 70 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:12.360 it paints a different picture, right, And it certainly gives you, 71 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:16.120 at the very least probable cause. And there was enough 72 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.600 of that probable cause for the judge to issue a warrant. 73 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:24.680 Several months before the murders. On August twenty first, a 74 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:28.519 county sheriff in Moscow stopped the suspect for a traffic infraction. 75 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.120 He was driving a white twenty fifteen Hondai a Lantra 76 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.240 with Pennsylvania plates. He provided his cell phone number to 77 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:39.319 the officer. And this was one of the biggest mistakes 78 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.199 Coburger made, because they were able to cross reference all 79 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:44.959 of this stuff, look at the phone records and place 80 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.279 this numb nut at the scene of the crime. How 81 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:52.519 many times twelve at least every cell phone receives and 82 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.399 sends signal to a local cell tower when the phone 83 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.839 is turned on. As the cell phone moves, the signal 84 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.480 transfers seamlessly from one tower to the next in the 85 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:06.680 direction the phone is moving. Cell Phone service providers keep 86 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.800 records on every cell phone using its services, including all 87 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:15.519 cell site location information, and this information provides a map 88 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.480 of where and when the phone went while it was on. 89 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.600 So we know that Brian Coberger, according to the Affidavid, 90 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:25.800 turned his phone off at the time that these murders 91 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.360 were committed. Law enforcement applied for and was granted a 92 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:34.120 search warrant for historical phone records for the alleged murderer's 93 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.560 phone number. The record showed the account had been opened 94 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:41.199 on June twenty third of twenty twenty two for a 95 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.360 subscriber with the name of the suspect, who was listed 96 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:49.040 at an address in all Brightsville, Pennsylvania. So Brian Coberger 97 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:53.199 was keeping his address in all Brightsville, and I can 98 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:57.000 understand that, right. Maybe he didn't plan on staying in Pullman, 99 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.600 and that wasn't going to be his permanent address up there, 100 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.800 so he didn't want to go through the rigamarole of 101 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.560 changing all of that. I get that, but I think 102 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:08.439 he made a pretty big mistake by changing his plates 103 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.959 out when he did. Now I know that they were 104 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.439 up for renewal, but it really looked bad for him 105 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:17.720 and really turns some eyes his way. When you have 106 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.199 that car that was seen at the crime and then 107 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:22.759 it changes its plates like that, you know there's going 108 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:27.519 to be some suspicion. A review of the historical CSLI 109 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.399 data revealed that prior to the date of the murders, 110 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.360 the phone at Ping cell towers in the area of 111 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:37.319 the murder scene on twelve separate occasions, always in the 112 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:41.680 evening or early morning hours. In fact, three months before 113 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.959 the murders, on August twenty first, the suspect's phone pinged 114 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:48.120 a cell tower that provided coverage to the King Road 115 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.800 residence for over an hour from ten thirty four pm 116 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:55.879 to eleven thirty five pm. So, oh boy, according to 117 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.279 the phone records, anyway, was sitting out here and watching 118 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:02.839 this house for an hour. I'm sure he wasn't out 119 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:06.319 there doing homework or talking on the internet or anything 120 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:08.680 like that. So he's gonna have to explain that in 121 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:14.839 court as well. On the night of the murders, CLSI 122 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.920 shows the phone at her nearest suspect's apartment in Pullman, Washington, 123 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.279 at two forty two am. For the next five minutes, 124 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:27.360 it moves south through Pullman, then stops pinging altogether, indicating 125 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.800 the phone was then either turned off or put into 126 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.920 airplane mode. Two hours later, at four forty eight am, 127 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:39.199 the phone signal returned, pinging towers near State Highway ninety 128 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.279 five south of Moscow and Blaine, Idaho. The phone then 129 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:47.480 traveled south to Genese, Idaho, west to Uniontown, Idaho, and 130 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:51.279 then north, arriving back at the suspects apartment at five 131 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:55.519 thirty am. And during this ride home, I'm convinced at 132 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.639 this point that Brian Koberger got rid of evidence and 133 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.800 with the desolation out there, good luck at ever finding it. 134 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.480 The CLSI footprint of the suspected killer's phone is consistent 135 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:10.160 with the times, dates, and routes of the white A 136 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:14.000 Lantras seen in video surveillance footage recovered from his neighborhood, 137 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:17.879 his university, and the roads and highways between his apartment 138 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.800 and the King Road residents. Did the police violate the 139 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:26.720 murder suspect's Fourth Amendment rights by obtaining his CSLI information 140 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:31.839 not at all. In Carpenter versus United States twenty eighteen, 141 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:35.639 the United States Supreme Court raised the standard for allowing 142 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:41.279 police to access SCLI records. Previously, the government would apply 143 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.559 for a court order to obtain cell phone records under 144 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:48.559 the Stored Communications Act. Those requests did not have to 145 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.759 meet the probable cause standard needed to obtain a search 146 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.799 warrant because the information was considered to be in the 147 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.960 hands of a third party. The cell phone user therefore 148 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:04.159 could have no reasonable exps of privacy over his CSLI. 149 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:08.879 Carpenter upended that practice, requiring police to seek a search 150 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:12.639 warrant for any CSLI if the scope of the request 151 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:15.279 is more than seven days of data. And I think 152 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.039 that was a good move by the Supreme Court, right. 153 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:19.919 We don't want the police to be able to just 154 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:23.960 snoop around willy nilly, but when there's a reason for it, 155 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.200 then there has to be levers and channels that they 156 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:33.360 can go through to get that information. In Idaho, the 157 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:36.759 police were fully compliant. They first sought a search warrant 158 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:41.039 for two days of CSLI data centered around the time 159 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:45.279 of the slayings. After reviewing those recordings, they then requested 160 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:50.159 and received a warrant for all CSLI from June to December. 161 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.799 That data paints a damning map of the whereabouts of 162 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.360 the suspect's phone in the months leading up to the 163 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:00.000 murders and on the night of the crimes. Prosecutors will 164 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.360 argue that the alleged killer scoped out the murder site 165 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:06.480 a dozen times in the dark of night prior to 166 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:10.559 the quadruple homicides. They will certainly argue that, based on 167 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:12.879 the map of the phone's movement on the night of 168 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:16.919 the murders, the suspect left his residence after two am, 169 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.679 drove toward Idaho, turned off the phone while he committed 170 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.919 the murders, and then turned on the phone after the 171 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:27.320 murders were over. And we saw that in the probable 172 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:31.159 cause Affid David certainly something that the prosecutors are contending. 173 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.679 When overlaid with the movement of the white Alantra, the 174 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.559 cell phone's movement would appear to be quite persuasive, no 175 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:42.120 doubt about it. But we need more. It's not good 176 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.720 enough for me anyway, just to have cell phone data, 177 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:47.879 especially considering that it can ping off these towers all 178 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:54.399 over the place. Genetic genealogy, What about the admissibility of 179 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.879 the DNA evidence. On December twenty seventh, Pennsylvania law enforcement 180 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:04.159 officers retreat trash from the suspect family, residents in all Brightsville. 181 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.320 Under the Supreme Court's decision in California versus Greenwood, the 182 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:12.399 Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the warrantless search and seizure 183 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:17.759 of garbage outside of a home. Lab testing compared DNA 184 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:20.679 found on some of the retrieved trash and the DNA 185 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.240 obtained from the sheath founded the crime scene. The lab 186 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.080 concluded that at least ninety nine point nine eight percent 187 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:32.000 of the male population would be expected to be excluded 188 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:36.480 from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father. In 189 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:39.759 plain English, that means the trash DNA came from the 190 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:42.639 father of the person who left the DNA on the 191 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:47.159 sheath at the crime scene, and that science is very 192 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:50.799 very strong. That's the same thing they use for paternity 193 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:56.200 tests and stuff, so very very strong science. The affidavit 194 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.200 is deliberately vague on how the authorities came to this conclusion, 195 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.919 but it's not hard to figure out what happened. No doubt. 196 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:08.440 Police subjected the sheath DNA to two separate tests, one 197 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:12.639 to forensically identify the DNA profile for admission into court, 198 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.960 and one to create a SNIP based genetic profile that 199 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:20.440 might enable them to connect that person's DNA to a 200 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:28.039 close relative. SNIP stands for single nucleotide polymorphism and is, 201 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:32.600 in Layman's terms, a sequence variation that allows geneticis to 202 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:39.240 identify close relatives through genetic genealogy. And it's crazy how 203 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.799 far this science has come. I'm forty three years old, 204 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.200 and the leaps and bounds that this science has made 205 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.240 since I've been a kid is just amazing. Police were 206 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.919 able to tie the profiles of the suspect and his 207 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:56.840 father together, and because the suspect is an only child, 208 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:00.240 this was enough to establish probable cause and a rest 209 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:03.360 him for the homicides. A quick correction, not an only child, 210 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:06.600 but his only son. He has a sister. If the 211 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.759 case goes to a contested trial, the government's case will 212 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:14.399 hinge not only on the CSLI, DNA and genetic genealogy 213 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:20.159 evidence described above, but also witness testimony, audio evidence, video 214 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.000 evidence of the travels of the defendants, White Alantra, and 215 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:29.679 other evidence of the defendants online activities. Like all defendants, 216 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:34.480 the Moscow murder suspect is presumed innocent unless until proven 217 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:38.480 guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But there is no doubt 218 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:42.080 that there are no Fourth Amendment issues with respect to 219 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:47.200 the CLSI or DNA evidence in this case. So I 220 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:48.879 know there had been a lot of talk about that 221 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.399 the Fourth Amendment and if Brian Koberger's constitutional rights had 222 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:57.399 been stepped on, and the answer to that emphatically is no. 223 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.480 So I don't even expect Brian Colberger's legal team to 224 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.360 attempt to challenge any of that as far as on 225 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:08.279 a constitutional basis. Instead, they're gonna focus on other things. 226 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.000 They're going to focus on, you know, trying to put 227 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:13.399 somebody else at the scene of the crime, trying to 228 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.399 punch holes in what the experts have to say, and 229 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.559 doing whatever they can to try and cause at the 230 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:23.879 very least some reasonable doubt in the minds of those jurors. 231 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:26.799 All Right, folks, that's gonna do it for this one. 232 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.000 All of the information that goes with the episode can 233 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.039 be found in the description box.