Speaker 1: CBS suspends former Dallas quarterback Tony Romo indefinitely from the booth.
Speaker 1: JJ Watt to take over. What's that all about in
Speaker 1: the man cave? Part of what we'll talk about also
Speaker 1: chasing a serial killer. When we get to author's corner,
Speaker 1: I'm Kate Deliny, But first we swing into the rundown
Speaker 1: here at the top of America tonight. Yea, the Washington
Speaker 1: State fires have destroyed hundreds of buildings and for Spokane
Speaker 1: area residents to evacuate. The evacuation numbers are staggering. Sixty
Speaker 1: seven thousand people under the EVAK orders. About seven hundred
Speaker 1: buildings now officially have been destroyed, a number that they
Speaker 1: think will continue to climb.
Speaker 2: I mean the.
Speaker 1: Fires jumped roads and rivers. It's burned twelve point five
Speaker 1: square miles by Monday night. The sky is filled with
Speaker 1: smoke and haze, which I wish I had better descriptions
Speaker 1: to throw out there. But people are really dealing with
Speaker 1: charged that's covered yards. In some cases you've got just
Speaker 1: a chimney or two that is left standing that wasn't
Speaker 1: lost on this one man who doesn't think his heart
Speaker 1: can take it, and he won't come back.
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm going to rebuild here because I
Speaker 3: don't ever want to have to relive a fire coming
Speaker 3: up this hill again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the horrible side of that. And there
Speaker 1: are such an amazing amount of firefighters that are on
Speaker 1: the scene there, spread out across those distances, trying to
Speaker 1: do what they can to contain it. And if only
Speaker 1: they would get more water, if there would be massive
Speaker 1: rain or something that would certainly help, the containment is
Speaker 1: very very low at the point. Meanwhile, there are allegations
Speaker 1: against Congressman Max Miller, and there are a lot of
Speaker 1: Republicans that are keeping their distance as you get ready
Speaker 1: for the midterms. He's accused of abuse, and he says
Speaker 1: he's not stepping a side and the abuse specifically is
Speaker 1: centered around his young child. So the congressman from Ohio
Speaker 1: went to x to address the allegations that he did
Speaker 1: abuse his daughter.
Speaker 4: I have never abused our daughter.
Speaker 5: Before I go.
Speaker 4: Through the facts with you today, understand one thing. Every
Speaker 4: one of these allegations traces back to a single source.
Speaker 4: My former wife. I filed for divorce in August of
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. That October, she admitted under oath that
Speaker 4: I had never harmed our daughter. Every accusation has come since,
Speaker 4: So ask yourself, what is continuing to change.
Speaker 6: Not the facts.
Speaker 4: There's never been evidence of any kind. What changed, Ladies
Speaker 4: and gentlemen, were the stakes. The first report came thirteen
Speaker 4: days after our shared parenting plan was entered. The next
Speaker 4: one came in February of twenty twenty six, in the
Speaker 4: heat of our custody fight, days before a court granted
Speaker 4: me a protection order against her. Her most extreme accusations
Speaker 4: are the ones that had to deal with child abuse,
Speaker 4: and they frame me as an abuser, timed and every
Speaker 4: time again to our custody dispute. In politics, and not
Speaker 4: one of these allegations has ever been substantiated by any
Speaker 4: court or any agency.
Speaker 2: Wow, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like he's stepping aside at all.
Speaker 2: The reflecting pond.
Speaker 1: That is what so many people were talking about in Washington,
Speaker 1: and it continues. Janine Pyro, who is the Piro rather,
Speaker 1: who is the Attorney General in d c. Her Justice Department,
Speaker 1: submitted a court filing heading into the weekend to dismiss
Speaker 1: vandalism charges against sixty seven year old olympian David Hearn,
Speaker 1: saying the Interior Department incorrectly attributed damage in the pools
Speaker 1: lying to vandalism, and that the evidence showed contractor error
Speaker 1: and a botched installation actually were to blame. The President
Speaker 1: didn't like hearing that, and.
Speaker 7: I was disappointed with Janey Pirou, really disappointed with Jannine Pierrot.
Speaker 7: She folded like an umbrella, and people get away with things.
Speaker 7: It's a disgrace.
Speaker 8: But these monuments look better than they did when they
Speaker 8: were originally built, not just a little fix up. We
Speaker 8: made them the way they were plus and everyone's so proud.
Speaker 8: The biggest one of the bigger jobs was not really
Speaker 8: the biggest, limit enough, but one of the biggest was
Speaker 8: the reflecting pool, and we did a great job. So
Speaker 8: now I'm not saying I was one hundred percent thrilled
Speaker 8: with the contractor, but the contractor was rushing.
Speaker 9: We wanted to get it open for July fourth, and.
Speaker 8: We got it done.
Speaker 9: But in addition, there was vandalism, and we weren't necessarily
Speaker 9: thrilled with the contractor, but they did a job and
Speaker 9: they were fixing any problems. But then it got carried
Speaker 9: away because the judge was extremely unfriendly to Janine and Frankly,
Speaker 9: I think she choked because the judge was really vicious.
Speaker 1: What's really vicious is what's happening in seven different states
Speaker 1: when it comes to water and cyber attacks. Plymouth, Minnesota
Speaker 1: was one of several towns affected. Here's Michael Thompson, that
Speaker 1: city's public works director.
Speaker 5: When an event like this comes up, where we can
Speaker 5: run in manual operations just to ensure the quality and
Speaker 5: quantity of water is not affected.
Speaker 1: Yeah, changing passwords getting in that is pretty frightening, and
Speaker 1: the backup systems and anything they can do to lock
Speaker 1: it out. And luckily, it could have been a bigger
Speaker 1: disaster for a lot of these places. And I think
Speaker 1: the red flag is definitely waved when it comes to that,
Speaker 1: no question about it.
Speaker 2: Are we moved to?
Speaker 1: Sadly what happened at in an Altburger in Twin Falls, Idaho.
Speaker 1: At least three people died and seven other were injured too,
Speaker 1: still critically in the hospital. The victims included employees and customers.
Speaker 1: The suspect was identified as twenty four year old Chad Williams,
Speaker 1: who is found dead near the restaurant from a self
Speaker 1: inflicted good gun wound. Rather and one of the things
Speaker 1: that happened was there was a good samaritan who was
Speaker 1: grabbed his gun and all what was happening, and went
Speaker 1: after the twenty four year old and that kind of
Speaker 1: shook things up, and he wasn't firing at the cars
Speaker 1: then after that, and there was an off duty police
Speaker 1: officer who also was on the scene, and that probably
Speaker 1: saved a bunch of lives.
Speaker 2: Not lost on the sheriff.
Speaker 10: These people are true heroes in our community and their
Speaker 10: actions diverted the shooter and no doubt saved many lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really scary to hear one woman's description of how
Speaker 1: crazy it was when that unfolded. It was just mass chaos.
Speaker 5: The attention was everybody running from in and out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are you going to do?
Speaker 1: I mean, all of a sudden, there's somebody who just
Speaker 1: methodically is slowly walking, has a long gun, starts to
Speaker 1: shoot and you're in your car, And that's how people
Speaker 1: described it. I mean, just terrifying. Will they find a motive?
Speaker 1: Who knows? There is a search for trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what that is, but so far nothing has come up.
Speaker 1: By the way, an update on the Spokane fires, Deputies
Speaker 1: have arrested a man on an arson charge in connection
Speaker 1: with one of the fires. The fire officials say they're
Speaker 1: investigating the cause of all of the fires, of course,
Speaker 1: but at least they have the one and they'll they
Speaker 1: see where that goes, and they.
Speaker 2: Continue to obviously investigate.
Speaker 1: All right. Coming up next, we're gonna hit the man Cave,
Speaker 1: giving you some of those Major League Baseball scores and
Speaker 1: some of the happenings all around in the world of sports.
Speaker 1: On the flip side with me Kate Delaney here on
Speaker 1: America tonight.
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Speaker 10: I'm going to the Man Cave.
Speaker 5: I'll go in to the MA Cave.
Speaker 10: Going to the MA Cave.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are in the Man the Cave, and there
Speaker 1: are a lot of things that are happening.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get to Major League Baseball scores.
Speaker 1: There's some exciting movements when it came to the trading deadline,
Speaker 1: but we started this. CBS announced last week that Tony
Speaker 1: Romo would be taken in indefinitely following his arrest for
Speaker 1: suspecion of suspicion rather of oh WI while driving in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: and it was announced that JJ Watt would be moving
Speaker 1: up to the number one NFL in game analyst role,
Speaker 1: working alongside Jim Nance and Tracy Wolfson. It's unclear if
Speaker 1: or when Romo will return. Ten years ago, he signed
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty million dollar contract with CBS and
Speaker 1: he's oh seventy two million, but they these contracts have
Speaker 1: morals clauses, So who knows. It's up in the air,
Speaker 1: I would say, And it may just be that JJ
Speaker 1: watt has that has that spot. But we'll see. The
Speaker 1: only thing that was said was that it was an
Speaker 1: indefinite suspension, so you know, glean from that what you will.
Speaker 1: But here we are in training camps, so before you
Speaker 1: know it will be swinging into those first games.
Speaker 2: Hard to believe, right that we're that close.
Speaker 1: We are knocking on the door of that all right
Speaker 1: trade deadline for winners and losers, And I guess it
Speaker 1: depends on your perspective. But there's some obvious things that happen.
Speaker 1: It's like the Dodgers. They can stack the deck like nobody.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Of course they get the biggest, they got the richest.
Speaker 1: They they just did. And I talked about this a
Speaker 1: little bit in our previous man Cave. But Tariq's scuball
Speaker 1: uh is the is the guy you know that he
Speaker 1: was a necessity to put into that lineup when it
Speaker 1: comes to the rotation. I mean, could could you get
Speaker 1: anyone better that would fit in there? And and and
Speaker 1: and it's him and so there you go. Whether or
Speaker 1: not that all meshes will see.
Speaker 2: But Uh this.
Speaker 1: You know, he goes from fighting for any kind of
Speaker 1: postseason too being able to pitch for a World Series contender,
Speaker 1: and and there you go when it comes to free agency.
Speaker 1: Doesn't get any better that, uh than that, That's that's
Speaker 1: for sure. So to me, they they probably overall did
Speaker 1: the absolute best. And then you have the Red Sox.
Speaker 1: They got Adlie Rutschman, and that's pretty big when you
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, the move there. The Orioles set
Speaker 1: a sky high asking price and the Red Sox said, okay,
Speaker 1: and he's on the injured list with a wrist problem.
Speaker 1: But this is somebody that when you talk about packing
Speaker 1: a punch. Look, look he is probably the best position
Speaker 1: player traded at the deadline. So that was I think
Speaker 1: a shocker to a lot of people, a big shocker.
Speaker 2: The Yankees, they had a bunch of needs.
Speaker 1: They needed a right hitting outfielder, They needed bullpen help,
Speaker 1: that's always really big. They needed a righty hitting catcher.
Speaker 1: They got a couple of those things. They got Ramos,
Speaker 1: a right hitting outfielder, and they did bring in Luis
Speaker 1: Garcia Junior who will help the offense. But there were
Speaker 1: some other things they didn't get to do. They didn't
Speaker 1: really overwork. You know, they didn't do anything to help
Speaker 1: their overworked bullpen. They didn't get any help there, so
Speaker 1: that's not good. The Cubs needed help with arms and
Speaker 1: they got them. So they also did pretty well there.
Speaker 1: I would say they got Clay Holmes and you know,
Speaker 1: Kevin Gosman also, that was a good pickup. And they
Speaker 1: needed help in the rotation. And so those two will
Speaker 1: do that their postseason vets, and that's what the Cubbies
Speaker 1: need if they're gonna go deep and we're gonna see
Speaker 1: them further in the in the postseason.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 1: I think in this whole thing, something that will be
Speaker 1: written about or right, if I was a sports writer
Speaker 1: and I was covering him specifically or covering baseball, this
Speaker 1: is what.
Speaker 2: I would write about. I think the greatest, one of.
Speaker 1: The greatest players in baseball is on the losingest loser team.
Speaker 1: Mike Trout. I mean, rebuild, rebuild, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2: Do it again. I mean how long does that does
Speaker 2: he stick around for?
Speaker 8: That?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: So, Mike Trout is he turns thirty five this week
Speaker 1: and he's stuck with the Angels through thick and thin,
Speaker 1: a lot of thin, a lot of thin, and you know,
Speaker 1: so here he is again. So now you go back
Speaker 1: to an off season and this is a team.
Speaker 2: What are they like?
Speaker 1: They have forty three wins and so this is a
Speaker 1: future Hall of Famer who is on a team that
Speaker 1: is going nowhere fast. And to me, that is a
Speaker 1: really sad situation. I would like to see him with
Speaker 1: a better chance and move to another team. But he
Speaker 1: has massive a massive loyalty thing too, So I guess
Speaker 1: good for them. He's definitely a fan draw, there's no question.
Speaker 1: There's no question about that. All right, let's jump to
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball scores.
Speaker 2: Can we hear that again? What are the Cardinals doing?
Speaker 2: They're eating their weedies.
Speaker 1: Cardinals blew out the Yankees thirteen to seven. Oh, they
Speaker 1: had been on a terrible hurdle in the hurdling in
Speaker 1: the wrong direction, but forget about that.
Speaker 2: Things have changed.
Speaker 1: Alec Burlson hit three homers and they just completely outslugged
Speaker 1: and outplayed the Yankees after losing the six fron lead.
Speaker 1: So good for the Cardinals. They were able. Here's the
Speaker 1: bottom line. It's about winning. They were able to get
Speaker 1: it done, and they got it done. Yeah, absolutely, so
Speaker 1: good on them. Number fifty six for the Cardinals on
Speaker 1: the season, the Phillies picked up number sixty. They beat
Speaker 1: the National three Pirates had the Brewers number four to
Speaker 1: three the final, Spencer Horwitz hit a three run double
Speaker 1: and the Pirates extended really what could be described as
Speaker 1: their dominance over the Brewers this season. So they beat
Speaker 1: them again in the opener of a four game series.
Speaker 2: Check this out.
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh has won six of seven games against the NL
Speaker 1: Central leading Brewers this season. So Brewers got to come
Speaker 1: up with some answers. I would say, all right, the Dodgers,
Speaker 1: as I said, who scored so big when it comes
Speaker 1: to the trading deadline? They didn't score so big at
Speaker 1: Wrigley The Cubs doubled them up ten to five final there,
Speaker 1: and the fans were loving that because it was number
Speaker 1: sixty four for the Cubbies. They are definitely in the
Speaker 1: they are definitely in the thick of it, and the
Speaker 1: heart of their order came up big and that was
Speaker 1: part of the reason why they were able to hand
Speaker 1: the Dodgers their fourth consecutive lost. Michael Bush drove in
Speaker 1: three runs against his former team, helping Chicago improve to
Speaker 1: two and two on a seven game homestand the Cubs
Speaker 1: also pulled within five and a half games of Milwaukee.
Speaker 1: I told you what happened with Milwaukee losing to Pittsburgh,
Speaker 1: so they are getting a little help there. Giants beat
Speaker 1: the Rangers five to one. Blue Jays and the Astros
Speaker 1: and low scoring affair. Blue Jays pulled that out though,
Speaker 1: three to one. How about the Rays. The Rays are
Speaker 1: cooking with all kinds of gas on the road thirteen
Speaker 1: to nine over the Rockies, and they're going definitely in
Speaker 1: the right direction. They pick up number sixty six. Junior
Speaker 1: coming Era hit two home runs. Jonathan Randa also came
Speaker 1: up super big for the Rays, had four hits, and
Speaker 1: that was a good way for them to start that.
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay was pretty busy at the trading deadline themselves.
Speaker 1: They picked up a kettor in Liam Hicks from Miami
Speaker 1: and they also picked up a reliever, Tyler Wells from Baltimore.
Speaker 1: So good on the Rays because they have a really
Speaker 1: good young team.
Speaker 2: How about the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 1: They picked up number sixty out at Chase Field, knocking
Speaker 1: off the Padres five one. They two are trying to
Speaker 1: go in that right direction. Tim Tahwah hit a three
Speaker 1: run homer and they blasted past them, and they're thinking
Speaker 1: at least NL wildcard position, that's what that matchup would
Speaker 1: be about. The Diamondbacks are two games ahead of San
Speaker 1: Diego in the wildcard race in the NL, So coming
Speaker 1: around on that is big. Arizona's fourteen and six in
Speaker 1: their last twenty games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, last twenty All right.
Speaker 1: NB eight News, what's really more conversation about the off
Speaker 1: season and everybody's still to talk about Lebron James and
Speaker 1: how he vaulted the seventy six ers into the top five,
Speaker 1: and looking at predictions for what is you know, what's
Speaker 1: Opening Night gonna look like? And you know it's the
Speaker 1: Knicks versus the seventy six ers.
Speaker 2: Oh, that would be a good one to be at,
Speaker 2: wouldn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the predictions for Opening Night anyway,
Speaker 1: because usually the raining NBA champs play somebody pretty good.
Speaker 1: Last year, Oklahoma City faced the Houston Rockets in their
Speaker 1: first game of the season. So we'll see if that's
Speaker 1: what happens. I'd love to be at that game, all right,
Speaker 1: hang with us. I'll meet you on the flip.
Speaker 2: On the show office corner.
Speaker 1: See well, I am so pleased to welcome to this show,
Speaker 1: Frank Ashley. He is somebody who's had an amazing career
Speaker 1: and has I think helped so many people who lost
Speaker 1: loved ones frankly and also probably has helped so many
Speaker 1: people in warning them what to look out for. And
Speaker 1: when I say that he's had a long career, just
Speaker 1: retired in law enforcement, in fact, he is partly responsible,
Speaker 1: definitely responsible for capturing one of America's most dangerous serial killers,
Speaker 1: Gary Ridgway, who's part of a huge task force. It's
Speaker 1: forty investigators. They work tirelessly day and night. So imagine
Speaker 1: what he brings to the table when he writes a novel,
Speaker 1: A Birthday to Die For because of his background, all
Speaker 1: of that expertise. It's a psychological crime thriller that is
Speaker 1: out there and you can't put it down. You just
Speaker 1: can't put it down. And we had an off air
Speaker 1: conversation that just left me wanting more, and I know
Speaker 1: that all of you will want to hear what Frank
Speaker 1: has to say. So Frank, thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: So first of all, let's talk about what made you
Speaker 1: jump into lawn enforcement in the first place well.
Speaker 5: I was in the Navy when right out of high
Speaker 5: school and in the Navy, I was taking correspondence course
Speaker 5: through LA Police Department, which led me to Riverside City
Speaker 5: Police Department, where I worked for eight years, which also
Speaker 5: was one of the first times I had a confrontation
Speaker 5: with satanic cult situation. But wow, so May one of
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty four, I took the old to be a
Speaker 5: Riverside City Police officer. The oath was to protect and
Speaker 5: serve and there is no expiration data on so even
Speaker 5: though I'm retired, I still feel the obligation to protect
Speaker 5: people when I can. The fact is that I was
Speaker 5: an active police officer for thirty three years. During that
Speaker 5: period of time, I was a homicide investigator for twelve years,
Speaker 5: during which time I investigated approximately thirty five death investigations.
Speaker 5: And I've also been a supervisor's detective sergeant on the
Speaker 5: Green River Task Force. When I transferred from Riverside up
Speaker 5: to the King County Sheriff's Department out of Seattle, where
Speaker 5: I've had the exposure to investigating death investigations for so
Speaker 5: many years. I also included the Green River serial murder
Speaker 5: case where forty eight women were killed in the state
Speaker 5: of Washington. I also was on the sidelines andlearned a
Speaker 5: lot during the Ted Bunny investigation. So when I was
Speaker 5: on the task force and I was tying up some
Speaker 5: loose ends, I got a phone call from a doctor.
Speaker 5: Turns out she was a psychologist and she had a
Speaker 5: patient just that morning had called her and a panic
Speaker 5: tone says she was going to be killed. Well, the
Speaker 5: doctor took time to talk to her to try and
Speaker 5: calm her down, but persuade her to come directly to
Speaker 5: her office where they talked and it was revealed that
Speaker 5: this woman was now just three weeks away from her
Speaker 5: twenty sixth birthday, the time at which she was so
Speaker 5: supposed to be sacrificed in place of a baby that
Speaker 5: she had miscarried thirteen years earlier. She it appears at
Speaker 5: thirteen years When she was thirteen years old, she was
Speaker 5: introduced to a Satanic cult by a foster mother. She
Speaker 5: was raped by a high priest, and as she was
Speaker 5: held down by other members of the cult, she delivered
Speaker 5: a baby, only to have it the miscarried, and therefore
Speaker 5: she was threatened by the high priest that shot her
Speaker 5: twenty sixth birthday thirteen years later she would take the
Speaker 5: place of her baby.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Wow, So Frank you get that call?
Speaker 2: What do you do?
Speaker 5: Well? It was first I had my doubts. I asked
Speaker 5: the doctor did she recorded any of her sessions with
Speaker 5: their patient, and she had, so she agreed to show
Speaker 5: it to me. So I went to her office and
Speaker 5: watched one of the sessions and even COMPLI kate the
Speaker 5: issue even more. As I'm watching this woman on a
Speaker 5: seat on the coutle, her legs tucked up under her
Speaker 5: as she talked, it sounded like her voice changed three
Speaker 5: different times. And as I got more into the interview,
Speaker 5: I could tell that there were three different personalities, and
Speaker 5: that was confirmed by the doctor. What was confusing was
Speaker 5: the one personality that seemed to be the dominant one
Speaker 5: seemed to be just like I was talking to the
Speaker 5: victim and getting a straight story. But then another personality
Speaker 5: would pop in and call the first personality a liar.
Speaker 5: And then the third personality was the peacekeeper between these
Speaker 5: other two personalities. So the confusion was quite rapid in
Speaker 5: this investigation, and it wasn't helping me dispelled my skepticism
Speaker 5: regarding the the story I was but I could not
Speaker 5: ignore it. It was it was too risky. The woman
Speaker 5: is saying she's going to be killed in about three weeks.
Speaker 5: Time is running short. And if I'm going to say
Speaker 5: this scal I've got to solve it. I've got to
Speaker 5: identify the cult members. So it was quite confusing. I
Speaker 5: had the pressure of that had the pressure of the
Speaker 5: multiple personalities, and I had to work out a code
Speaker 5: system with the doctor to realize which personality I was
Speaker 5: talking to at the time, and I was done by
Speaker 5: holding up one, two, or three fingers to tell us
Speaker 5: which one it was.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: Wow. So I had the pressure was on me because
Speaker 5: my experience was always you know, investigating the homicides of
Speaker 5: our people were already dead. Now I've got a walking victim.
Speaker 5: If I don't saw this case within the three week period,
Speaker 5: there's a strong likelihood she's going to be dead as well.
Speaker 5: So the pressure was on. And as I got into
Speaker 5: the investigation, I realized there was nobody I could trust.
Speaker 5: I didn't know there were so many people in our
Speaker 5: society that tended to lean that way. I was afraid
Speaker 5: to talk to just anybody because if they did, they
Speaker 5: could maybe talk to somebody from the occult themselves and
Speaker 5: they would find out where this young woman was at.
Speaker 5: So I had to worry about that. So the challenge
Speaker 5: was was to keep her alive while I tried to
Speaker 5: identify the cult members. And as I went, as I
Speaker 5: identified certain witnesses, like the foster parent that had introduced her,
Speaker 5: I only found out that she was dead as well.
Speaker 5: She had been sacrificed. Witnesses were either dying or disappearing
Speaker 5: on me. So I was the investigator was even complicated more.
Speaker 1: So well, and you had to be worried about a
Speaker 1: couple of things too, because now it starts to get
Speaker 1: out there and you were investigating this, and what about
Speaker 1: your wife's safety? What about the psychologist's safety? So that
Speaker 1: was even more pressure, right, yes.
Speaker 5: It was because what happened is during the investigation, the
Speaker 5: doctor's office had been burglarized and the only thing that
Speaker 5: had been disturbed was the file on the victim. So
Speaker 5: it was obvious that they call was trying to locate her.
Speaker 5: And they also the file revealed that I was the
Speaker 5: investigator the doctor even though she was reluctant to do so,
Speaker 5: and shared that there with me. Is the fact that
Speaker 5: she was violating the doctor patient confidentiality by bringing me
Speaker 5: into the investigator. But she had done so because she
Speaker 5: sincerely believed what the patient was telling her and she
Speaker 5: didn't have the ability to save her life without some help. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the good news is that this ends on a
Speaker 1: happy note, so to speak.
Speaker 2: But how did you pull apart?
Speaker 1: Like just knowing so much that you had learned back
Speaker 1: in those Riverside days about the occult that had to
Speaker 1: you know, and sacrifices, it's real, and that had to
Speaker 1: help you in solving this, right, it did.
Speaker 5: I had a lot of help from a detective from
Speaker 5: La Police Department. He was assigned to work these type
Speaker 5: of cases specifically, and he gave me heads up on
Speaker 5: what to look for that he told me to one
Speaker 5: of the things pay attention to any reports of animal abuse.
Speaker 5: One of the ceremonies included taking the testicles off of
Speaker 5: a bull or a horse and using that in some
Speaker 5: type of ceremony. And so that was and there were
Speaker 5: a couple of those done in the King County area
Speaker 5: where I was working. And when I got involved with
Speaker 5: this detective from LAPD was after I was on patrol
Speaker 5: and Riverside when a door to a church had been
Speaker 5: chopped down and as I put into it, I had
Speaker 5: another officer by the name al Cox, helped me out.
Speaker 5: We went into the church. We couldn't turn the lights
Speaker 5: on because we didn't know where the switches were at.
Speaker 5: We just had our flashlights and we're walking down both
Speaker 5: sides of the church. The church had a velvet colored curtain,
Speaker 5: almost like rug material, hanging from the ceiling to the
Speaker 5: floor on each wall. And as we walked down there,
Speaker 5: I noticed with my flashlights and toes sticking out from
Speaker 5: under the curtain. As I signaled on the scene with
Speaker 5: my flashlight, my al Cox, my money came over. We
Speaker 5: pulled the curtain back. The guy was standing there with
Speaker 5: an axe over his head ready to come down on us.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 5: So we had a big fight with him in there,
Speaker 5: disarming and that knocked over several pews in the church.
Speaker 5: That We took him into custody, but I had to
Speaker 5: book him in jail on a John Doe because he
Speaker 5: had no identification on him. Two days later I've notified
Speaker 5: that he's dead. He killed himself in the jail.
Speaker 1: More with Frank actually here on author's corner on the
Speaker 1: flip side.
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Speaker 1: We're back with Frank. Actually, Frank, that's the first time
Speaker 1: you dealt with anything like that, right.
Speaker 5: That was my first contact with anything dealing with Satanic worship. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 5: all the other homicide things that I had had and
Speaker 5: then this year I get this thing on the Satanic cult.
Speaker 5: It kind of blew my mind. I had to I
Speaker 5: had to share this fellow detectives throughout the wherever I could,
Speaker 5: needed to give them my heads up that this might
Speaker 5: be something they might run into some of their death investigations.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I also I also wanted to alert the citizens who
Speaker 5: read my book that there is that possibility, because it
Speaker 5: would be surprised how prevalent that is in our society
Speaker 5: today throughout the world as a matter of fact. But
Speaker 5: the investigation pursued and I worked out several situations with
Speaker 5: the doctor and ways to hide out to victim so
Speaker 5: to protect her, and I had the fellow officers now
Speaker 5: that I had gone back in years with who I
Speaker 5: knew were good and they helped me. Also, we did
Speaker 5: bring the case to the close. I did. I identify
Speaker 5: the the occult members and bought the thing to a close.
Speaker 5: But when I made the arrest of the booking and
Speaker 5: stuff like that in my detective car heading home, and
Speaker 5: I got to thinking about it. This victim had been
Speaker 5: living thirteen years, at least thirteen years in fear of
Speaker 5: her twenty sixth birthday, and that's why she developed these
Speaker 5: different personalities. So I called me doctor and I asked
Speaker 5: her she could get a hold of the victim and
Speaker 5: meet me, and she did so I met him and
Speaker 5: as I told him to don't worryny more. We've got
Speaker 5: the person who's in jail. He shouldn't be there for
Speaker 5: a long time. So they both broke down crying, the
Speaker 5: doctor and the victim. They come over and give me
Speaker 5: a big hug in that I just couldn't believe it. It
Speaker 5: was one of the most satisfying things I'd ever experienced
Speaker 5: out of the investigation.
Speaker 2: Wow, what a great what a great story.
Speaker 1: And then it led you to you know, be able
Speaker 1: to fictionalize it right in a birthday to die for right?
Speaker 5: Wow. Well, one of the things that it was helped
Speaker 5: persuade me is that this is all true. But as
Speaker 5: I needed led up to the conclusion of the investigation
Speaker 5: was I asked the doctor if she and her patient
Speaker 5: would go with me and have the patient show me
Speaker 5: the ceremonial sites that she had been to. And there
Speaker 5: were two ceremonial sites in two different counties in the mountains,
Speaker 5: and there was always high and always was in a
Speaker 5: clump of trees. They'd cut down these trees, you know,
Speaker 5: saplings and smaller trees and built a semi circle around
Speaker 5: an altar and allegedly at that time it was where
Speaker 5: the sacrifices were being made on the alders. Well, looking
Speaker 5: at one of them, I saw this brown stain running
Speaker 5: down the wood on one of them, so I cut
Speaker 5: it out, submitted to the crime lab. They came back
Speaker 5: both animal and human blood. Now I'm a believer. I'm convinced.
Speaker 5: And then that that I pursued it even a little harder,
Speaker 5: I guess, and brought it to the who's conclusion. By
Speaker 5: the way, the uh when I when I brought it
Speaker 5: to the conclusion this name the High Priest, that the
Speaker 5: title was given to the High Priest by himself. Okay,
Speaker 5: that's how he was identified. Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And so the great satisfaction from that where they break down,
Speaker 1: they cry, they hug you.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: That had to feel so good. And as you said,
Speaker 1: most of your career, in big chunks of it anyway,
Speaker 1: you were dealing with dead victims, You were dealing with
Speaker 1: families who wanted relief, especially when you talk about Green River,
Speaker 1: because people just wanted a conclusion to those that they
Speaker 1: loved that disappeared. And we would go on and on.
Speaker 1: It was huge across TV. There were all kinds of
Speaker 1: crime alerts. What was it like to be on that
Speaker 1: task force?
Speaker 5: Well, I started out as a homicide detective on there,
Speaker 5: and then they brought me back in after five months
Speaker 5: to make because I was a sergeant now maybe the
Speaker 5: investigating sergeant, and I was working with me. The task
Speaker 5: force consisted about forty detectives, detectives from three different police agencies,
Speaker 5: and twelve FBI agents. The FBI agents were great people.
Speaker 5: They helped us a lot because one of the reasons
Speaker 5: we asked them to join us is we were submitting
Speaker 5: evidence to the FBI Crime Lab in Quantico, Virginia, but
Speaker 5: we were getting the slow turnaround. So we went to
Speaker 5: the Special Agent charge of the Seattle office. He understood
Speaker 5: and he brought these twelve agencies from throughout the United
Speaker 5: States to assign to our task force. And we got
Speaker 5: almost immediate turnarounds when we submitted it, which helped. But
Speaker 5: in the Green River thing where Gary Ridgeway was the killer,
Speaker 5: we had forty eight victims. We had four victims that
Speaker 5: we had him solid on from DNA and enough of
Speaker 5: the death penalty. But his attorney, Tony Savage and we're
Speaker 5: mailing the prosecutor met and they discussed it because where
Speaker 5: we could get the death penalty. Only Savage wanted to
Speaker 5: say his client from the death penalty, so he was
Speaker 5: willing to make a deal. Deal was that he would
Speaker 5: have Ridgeway confessed to all the women he killed in
Speaker 5: the King County jurisdiction, and he changed for waiving a
Speaker 5: death penalty. I got a call at my home from
Speaker 5: normal mail and he asked me what did I think
Speaker 5: about it? I said, well, we've got him on four,
Speaker 5: but we got forty eight victims, so we close the
Speaker 5: case in for four of the families, but we still
Speaker 5: got forty four forty five cases that the family would
Speaker 5: have no closure. So was he just confessing to any
Speaker 5: any murder to get out of the death penalty or
Speaker 5: as you really tell us the truth when he confesses.
Speaker 5: So we brought Ridge Waving. General Tussin even slept in
Speaker 5: our office under the supervision of two detectives at all times,
Speaker 5: and he took us even to a site where he
Speaker 5: dumped the body that we hadn't even found yet. So
Speaker 5: he had to give us coroborative evidence to show that
Speaker 5: he was his confession was true. So that's where so
Speaker 5: make a long story short, Riduay was convicted of forty
Speaker 5: eight homicides. He was given forty eight life sentences to
Speaker 5: run consecutively. Wow. But one of the things is a
Speaker 5: point of interest is when were remember started. There were
Speaker 5: five victims and they were found in and on the
Speaker 5: bank of the Green River, and it was the news
Speaker 5: media that gave it the name the Green Serial murder case.
Speaker 5: And it turns out that the forty eight women was
Speaker 5: the largest cerial murder case in the history of the
Speaker 5: United States. Now we're not talking about mass murder, we're
Speaker 5: talking about serial murder right and investigated this. We had
Speaker 5: to learn how to identify the difference between animal and
Speaker 5: human bones. This investigation was known throughout the United States
Speaker 5: and Canada, and anybody found a bone, they'd called the
Speaker 5: task force and we have to go out and treat
Speaker 5: take a examiner's office to say whether it was animal
Speaker 5: or human, and then if it was animal, it was
Speaker 5: disposed of so that we wouldn't give another callback on it.
Speaker 5: So we did that, and then we went to the
Speaker 5: University of Oregon where they had a dental program and
Speaker 5: learned how to identify certain things with the skull and
Speaker 5: the teeth, for example, except for the first five victims,
Speaker 5: all the other victims were skeletal remains, so we had
Speaker 5: to find the teeth dent to identify because there was
Speaker 5: no fingerprints possible. So we had the assistance of explorer
Speaker 5: scouts and boyscounts and had it arranged with the schools
Speaker 5: that we had a search site. The sports scouts would
Speaker 5: come out from school and they would help us search
Speaker 5: some animal trails and pick up the teeth that had
Speaker 5: fallen off the mandible as a coyote was carried it
Speaker 5: to the coyote den. We would follow it right up,
Speaker 5: picking up teeth along the way, get to the coyote
Speaker 5: den and find the mandible and we would take the
Speaker 5: manible and the teeth that we found to the Medical
Speaker 5: Examiner's office and they would reconstruct the mandible well enough
Speaker 5: that they could send out photographs and X rays to
Speaker 5: the dentists in the United States and Canada get an ID.
Speaker 5: And that's all the victims except one victim. We had
Speaker 5: no Dell records anywhere, but she had a unusual break
Speaker 5: breaking into a femur and so we took X ray
Speaker 5: then and send it to doctors man and we got
Speaker 5: a positive idea on her as well.
Speaker 15: Wow.
Speaker 1: And we started with talking about the you know, the
Speaker 1: story of Birthday to Die Forward that was based on
Speaker 1: You can get that great book for a song, kindle, paperback,
Speaker 1: however you want it. You can get that on the
Speaker 1: Amazon or Barnes and Noble again, A Birthday to Die
Speaker 1: for Frank. Actually, it's so great to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 5: Kad