WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>The adventure in Pandora continues as the Sully family mourns

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<v Speaker 1>the loss of their eldest son, Nataeum. As they decide

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<v Speaker 1>the fate of their adopted son, Spider, they're faced with

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<v Speaker 1>a new enemy. It's Avatar Fire and Ash. I'm Ronald

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<v Speaker 1>Young Jr. And I'm leaving the theater. All right. This

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<v Speaker 1>is Ronald and I am leaving the theater after seeing

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<v Speaker 1>Avatar Fire and Ash. Avatar Fire and Ash written by

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<v Speaker 1>James Cameron, Rick Jaffa and Amanda Silver, directed by James Cameron,

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<v Speaker 1>starring Sam Worthington, Zoe Saldanya, Sigourney Weaver, Stephen Lang, Una Chaplin,

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<v Speaker 1>Cliff Curtis, and Kate Winslett. And for complete cast listing,

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<v Speaker 1>as always, you could go to the link in our

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<v Speaker 1>show notes. It is just me today. For those of

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<v Speaker 1>you that are in the Patreon, you probably saw my

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<v Speaker 1>review of Avatar and Avatar The Way of Water, the

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<v Speaker 1>first two installments of the Avatar Saga epic, whatever you

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<v Speaker 1>will call it. This is the third movie in what

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<v Speaker 1>is currently planned to be five movies. And I say

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<v Speaker 1>currently planned because if it keeps making money, they can

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<v Speaker 1>make ten of these easily. This is the third installment.

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<v Speaker 1>Avatar Fire and Ash is the third installment. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk a lot about the plot of the

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<v Speaker 1>first two movies because I do a lot of that

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<v Speaker 1>in the on the Couch episode. So if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to check that out. If you're a Patreon, you can

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<v Speaker 1>go check that out. If you're not a patron, and

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<v Speaker 1>hint patreon dot com slash Oh it's big ron. This movie,

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<v Speaker 1>we find it is very much a direct sequel to

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<v Speaker 1>the Way of Water in both positive and negative ways.

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<v Speaker 1>The positive ways is that it picks up right after

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<v Speaker 1>the action of the Way of Water. It shows us

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<v Speaker 1>a family that is grieving. They have adopted Spider, who

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<v Speaker 1>is Korich's Sun, which you find out very early in

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<v Speaker 1>Avatar The Way of Water. So if this is a

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<v Speaker 1>spoiler for you, you missed an entire movie. And we

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<v Speaker 1>find that the family is navigating their life with the

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<v Speaker 1>Reef people and trying to think about ways to take

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<v Speaker 1>the fight back to the sky people aka the humans

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<v Speaker 1>of Earth, and in engaging that fight, they discover a

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<v Speaker 1>new enemy, which is another Navi clan called the Ash People.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't actually think they're called the Ash People. I

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<v Speaker 1>think they have an actual official name, but they are

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<v Speaker 1>referred to as the Ash Clan or even the Ash people.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knows this movie desperately wants to be a four

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<v Speaker 1>star movie. It desperately wants to be a four star movie.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I say that, I'm saying that as as

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<v Speaker 1>if the movie were sentient itself. It wants to be

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<v Speaker 1>four stars so bad, and it has at least four

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<v Speaker 1>plot points that probably could have gotten it there if

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't all done at the same time. I think

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<v Speaker 1>they could have max done three of these, and I

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<v Speaker 1>want to point out I am saying four plot points.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me check my notes. I actually have five written down.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they only had enough room in this film

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<v Speaker 1>to actually explore three of the five plot points, but

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<v Speaker 1>they chose to go with all five. And sure, this

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<v Speaker 1>is probably seeding things that are going to happen in

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<v Speaker 1>future movies, but they are such large portions of the

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<v Speaker 1>movie that I'm watching right now that it constantly feels hamstrung.

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<v Speaker 1>It just feels like every time this movie wants to

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<v Speaker 1>move forward and continue being a movie that is well edited,

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<v Speaker 1>that is kind of well written, when it tries to

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<v Speaker 1>do those things, it's just hamstrung. By Oh, but here's

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<v Speaker 1>this other really massive plot point that we need to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about right now, and we may or may not

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<v Speaker 1>resolve it in this film. This movie is also held

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<v Speaker 1>up by the fact that it is slowing down obvious

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<v Speaker 1>beats that we know are coming. Whether it be because

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<v Speaker 1>while this movie is not entirely a retread of the

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<v Speaker 1>first two movies, I would say they started off in

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<v Speaker 1>a different direction, and when they got there, they found

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<v Speaker 1>familiar story beats that made sense to them, and then

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<v Speaker 1>just started doing those again. When I say that, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean initial conflict, discovery, setback, large, setback, huge battle. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's all three of these movies. If you rewind and

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<v Speaker 1>say the four or five things I just said, that

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<v Speaker 1>is the blueprint of all of these films. Now, let

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<v Speaker 1>me tell you about the five plot points specifically. So

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<v Speaker 1>there are five very good ideas. One of them is

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<v Speaker 1>ash people introducing those characters, which is what the preview

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<v Speaker 1>is set on, which is part of what the the

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<v Speaker 1>the name of the film is Fire and Ash and

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<v Speaker 1>also talks a lot about grief. There's like a there's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of an illusion to grief. There a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>grief in this film, very destructive grief. Grief that overlaps

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<v Speaker 1>and in a lot of ways is another part of

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<v Speaker 1>what hamstrings the plot in that it's not the type

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<v Speaker 1>of grief that people are moving through, it's the type

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<v Speaker 1>of grief that people are just sitting in. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you're writing a story, you can't have five or seven

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<v Speaker 1>people sitting in five or seven different types of grief

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<v Speaker 1>in a movie that's supposed to be an action adventure,

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<v Speaker 1>like We've Got to Move Forward, and there's large swaths

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<v Speaker 1>in which characters are learning lessons I think they should

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<v Speaker 1>have learned a full three hours ago. This movie is

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<v Speaker 1>three hours and seventeen minutes. The second movie was three

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<v Speaker 1>hours and fifteen minutes. The first movie was two hours

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<v Speaker 1>and forty five minutes. There's lessons y'all should have learned

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<v Speaker 1>many many minutes ago, many many many minutes ago, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're still learning them in this film. I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>the negative way that this film is connected as a

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<v Speaker 1>direct sequel to the Way of Water, meaning that large

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<v Speaker 1>swaths of Jake Sully's relationship with his son are the

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<v Speaker 1>main plot of the Way of Water, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>also become the main plot of this movie in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that made me said, all right, already. Just be

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<v Speaker 1>proud of your son, be be good to your son.

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<v Speaker 1>Why are we Why are we still doing this? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't understand like this. I don't want to do this anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And and let me let me say the other four.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first one is the ash people. The second

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<v Speaker 1>one is the abilities of humans to breathe atmosphere on Pandora,

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<v Speaker 1>And I'll just leave it at that and say that

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<v Speaker 1>it is a part of the story Quorich changing his mind.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not saying whether he does or not, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying grappling with the idea of him maybe not

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<v Speaker 1>being an antagonist. Uh. And I'm just saying grappling with

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<v Speaker 1>the idea. Before y'all listen and say that's a spoiler,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not. I'm telling you that is grappling with the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of who he is. It's something that was in

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<v Speaker 1>the way of water when he's deciding what to do

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<v Speaker 1>with his son and whether or not he has a

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with his son. The next one is the whales.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously the whales are a huge plot point. And the

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<v Speaker 1>final one is whether or not Kirie, which is Sigourney

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<v Speaker 1>Weaver's character, whether she is some sort of all powerful

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<v Speaker 1>you know, able to commune with I keep wanting to

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<v Speaker 1>call it Gaya, but it's not Ay. Whether she's able

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<v Speaker 1>to commune with Awa, control the earth all of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are five distinct directions in a movie that is

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<v Speaker 1>this even that is three hours and seventeen minutes. You had,

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<v Speaker 1>you could do three of those, and on top of

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<v Speaker 1>that everything I just mentioned, only one of those was

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<v Speaker 1>directly dealing with what the humans are doing? What are

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<v Speaker 1>the humans doing? I don't know what's happening on Earth.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that in this movie, somehow they've built an

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<v Speaker 1>entire city, and none of the humans that are in

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<v Speaker 1>the city except for the three leaders. We'll go with Quorich,

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<v Speaker 1>We'll go with Giovanni Ribisi, whatever his name is, and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll go with Uh. We'll go with old girl from

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<v Speaker 1>the Sopranos, Edie Falco. Those three people are the only

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<v Speaker 1>ones we get any real interiority on. We don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>how the other humans feel about everything going on. They're

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<v Speaker 1>kind of depicted as this angry, bloodthirsty mob. So I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna say those five plot points again, and then I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna point out what I'm trying to say. It all

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<v Speaker 1>Ash people, humans, the ability of humans to breathe air,

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<v Speaker 1>and when I say breathe air, I'm sorry, I'm saying

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<v Speaker 1>humans breathing air, breathing the atmosphere on Pandora, Quorich changing

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<v Speaker 1>his mind, the whales, and whether or not Kiri is

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<v Speaker 1>a super being entity whatever. The name of the movie

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<v Speaker 1>is Fire and Ash, so let's just deal with the

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<v Speaker 1>Ash people and call it a day. But the Fire

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<v Speaker 1>and Ash and the Ash People are only one aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of the movie, and of those five plot points, they

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<v Speaker 1>are the least important. They are the least important, and

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<v Speaker 1>their existence directly hamstrings Quorich's ability to have the journey

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<v Speaker 1>that they're signaling for him to have in the first

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<v Speaker 1>act of this film. So later on in the film,

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<v Speaker 1>when we see what's happening with Korich, I remember thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>why do you keep having Jake have these heart to

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<v Speaker 1>heart conversations with Korich that are never going to go

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere in this film? They're setting us up, And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure if you're listening to this, you're like, well, they're

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<v Speaker 1>setting it up for future films. That may be the case,

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<v Speaker 1>but then don't spend so much time in this film

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<v Speaker 1>convincing me of something that's not going to happen. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like they're waving around, I believe it's called Chekhov's Gun,

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<v Speaker 1>just waving around, being like, we're definitely gonna fire this bullet.

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<v Speaker 1>And then not only do they throw the gun away,

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<v Speaker 1>they pull out a knife and say we're gonna stab

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<v Speaker 1>someone and say, psych, we're not even gonna use any

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<v Speaker 1>weapons in this there's no action in this movie at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Look up Chekhov's Gun if you don't know what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. And I'm being honest with y'all. I thought

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<v Speaker 1>all of those were good threads. I thought they were

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<v Speaker 1>a good direction for these films to go in. But

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<v Speaker 1>because they had so many of them, you might as

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<v Speaker 1>well have had none of them, because all of them

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<v Speaker 1>were hurting each other, none of them were really working together.

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<v Speaker 1>And the thing is, maybe three of them could have

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<v Speaker 1>found a way to work together. Because the whales become

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<v Speaker 1>a really bad And I know they're not called the whales,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm not gonna sit here and try to they're

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<v Speaker 1>called till I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna have

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<v Speaker 1>to look it up. They're called whales, they're whales. They

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<v Speaker 1>are whale surrogates. That's what they are. Don't get mad

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<v Speaker 1>at me. They're whale surrogates. That's what they are. The

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<v Speaker 1>whales end up being a big part of what is

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<v Speaker 1>the final battle in the film. So if that's where

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<v Speaker 1>we're going, then let's talk about that. And I said five,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't even I'm just mentioned the sixth, which is

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<v Speaker 1>Jake Sully's relationship with his son, and then there's all

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<v Speaker 1>these interpersonal things going on with the Sullivan family, which

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<v Speaker 1>might as well be a seventh. So I'm saying all

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<v Speaker 1>that to say, it's too much dip on the chip.

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<v Speaker 1>It's too much dip on the chip. In the worst

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<v Speaker 1>of ways. It's too much dip on the chip. You

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<v Speaker 1>need more chips, You need more chips, and they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have it here. They don't have the chips. They don't

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<v Speaker 1>have the chips. They have a bunch of dip. You

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<v Speaker 1>put so much dip on the chips, it's just all

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<v Speaker 1>dip now. It's all dip now, all dip. Now. It's

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<v Speaker 1>too much dip on the chip. Okay, okay. So the

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<v Speaker 1>point of what I'm saying is all of those plot

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<v Speaker 1>points swirled into a circle doesn't work for me, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think ultimately, again, any of those done well together

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<v Speaker 1>probably would have brought this to could have made this

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<v Speaker 1>a four star movie. But because they weren't done well

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<v Speaker 1>and when the movie ended, I was very confused as

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<v Speaker 1>to what message was told. I think this movie has now,

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<v Speaker 1>this series has now swung way back into the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of culturally appropriationy centering white saviorism trope that it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of was starting with in the first one. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you if Kirie is this fantastic being that's able to

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<v Speaker 1>communicate with uh, with Awa, and you have Spider whose

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<v Speaker 1>role is expanding, Ultimately, these are two white people. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I know, in the confines of the story, Kirie would

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<v Speaker 1>not be considered white, she would be Navi. Like I know,

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<v Speaker 1>in the confines of the story, that's what the case

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<v Speaker 1>would be. Uh. But it's still as someone just watching it,

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<v Speaker 1>as just like a black person that's sitting here watching this.

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<v Speaker 1>I watched this, and I'm like, I know what's up here.

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<v Speaker 1>This is You're you're still writing a story. You're you're

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<v Speaker 1>still writing and telling a story that is centering white

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<v Speaker 1>folks who are now adapting to this culture and making

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<v Speaker 1>it their own. And at one point one of the

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<v Speaker 1>discussions in the in the movie is about how how

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<v Speaker 1>Natiri is has too much hate in her heart and

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<v Speaker 1>she's not doing enough to change as a result. And

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<v Speaker 1>and I feel like that conversation just irritated me. It

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<v Speaker 1>irritated me to know, and I was so confused as

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<v Speaker 1>to why it was happening. I was confused as to

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<v Speaker 1>as to what message it's trying to send in this film,

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<v Speaker 1>especially coming from the white dude that wrote this, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>or the white people that wrote this. I believe Rick

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<v Speaker 1>Jaffa and Amanda Silver are both white as well. So

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<v Speaker 1>it just it felt like I remember thinking, what was

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<v Speaker 1>your purpose of saying back to the indigenous person whose

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<v Speaker 1>life has been turned upside down by white folks coming

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<v Speaker 1>in here and doing whatever they wanted to do. What

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<v Speaker 1>was the purpose of you saying no, you're the hater?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean? Like you turned to Naetaria

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<v Speaker 1>and say no, you need to change yourself. No, natarias

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<v Speaker 1>every right to be upset. She has every right to

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<v Speaker 1>be angry. It makes sense that type of hate, and

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<v Speaker 1>she's harpering in her heart. It's sure it's hurting her,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's a different person that should have that conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with her certainly not Jake Sully, and I know he's

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<v Speaker 1>married to her, but he has to have some awareness

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<v Speaker 1>at this point. Okay, all of that being said, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a movie that desperately wants to be good, but unfortunately

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<v Speaker 1>it falls so short of that that while I would

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<v Speaker 1>watch this again, it's just barely so. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>most razor thin margin three star movie that I'll ever give.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to give it two point nine to nine

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<v Speaker 1>very bad, which is what I give to films that

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<v Speaker 1>almost I would watch again, but not quite there. This one,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just there. It's just there because I would watch

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<v Speaker 1>it again. There are aspects of this movie that I

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<v Speaker 1>did enjoy and I do want to see again, and

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<v Speaker 1>it fits in with the rest of the Avatars. But

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<v Speaker 1>I hope that for the next couple of movies that

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<v Speaker 1>they nailed down the story details in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>concludes the series peacefully, or at least gets to its point. Please,

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<v Speaker 1>Otherwise they'll I mean, these movies are gonna make a

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars, and maybe they'll just make two more movies

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<v Speaker 1>that are just three star movies and that's all they are.

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<v Speaker 1>That's perfectly fine if that ends up being the case,

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<v Speaker 1>but my god, I don't want to have to sit

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<v Speaker 1>in a film for three and a half hours and

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<v Speaker 1>wonder about retreads, wonder if it. Yeah, I just don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to have to do that again. I don't. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to have to go through this again. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to keep watching the Avatar movies because they are

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<v Speaker 1>a fun spectacle to watch in the theater. However, they

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<v Speaker 1>could be better, and the technology is good, the visuals

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<v Speaker 1>are good, and I'm really proud of what James Cameron

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<v Speaker 1>is doing. This really is kind of his magnum opus

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of ways. But ugh, I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna end up remaking this fifty years from now

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<v Speaker 1>and they're gonna fix all the problems and I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be around, well fifty years when I might be

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<v Speaker 1>still be around, but I might not be around to

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<v Speaker 1>really enjoy it and critique it the way I want to.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, with that, Leaving the Theater is a production

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<v Speaker 1>of owitz Big Ron Studios. I mixed this episode and

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<v Speaker 1>today is December eighteenth, and that means yesterday I saw Anaconda,

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<v Speaker 1>which will not come out until twenty twenty six, and

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<v Speaker 1>next Wednesday, December twenty fourth, I will be going to

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<v Speaker 1>see Marty Supreme. I Am and I did Avatar on

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<v Speaker 1>the Couch a few days ago, which went on Patreon.

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<v Speaker 1>On the leaving the theater side of Patreon, we are rocking

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<v Speaker 1>and rolling. We are putting out more content for y'all.

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<v Speaker 1>You still have the ad free feed, you still have

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<v Speaker 1>the discount code for Heartbreaker. There's still a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>good things happening on Patreon. We have expanded the patroon base.

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<v Speaker 1>We have added over sixty patrons, which is amazing, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're not going to stop. We're going to continue the

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<v Speaker 1>drive for the rest of the month. And I'm realizing

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<v Speaker 1>that by pivoting this way and by investing more in

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<v Speaker 1>the Patreon and investing more specifically in people that like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh it's big Ron studios and the stuff that I

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<v Speaker 1>put out, it is making me beholden to you the

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<v Speaker 1>audience and you the listener. Now this doesn't mean you

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<v Speaker 1>can just tell me what to do, but what it

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<v Speaker 1>does mean is that I'm really really thinking about what

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<v Speaker 1>it is that you like about these shows, continuing to

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<v Speaker 1>give you more of that, continuing to give you more

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<v Speaker 1>in the Patreon and it allows me to work more freely.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes clear my directives in a way that just

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoy. I enjoy, I appreciate. I'm glad to be

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<v Speaker 1>doing this. I'm happy to be doing this job. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't feel like I'm waiting for someone to give me

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity. I'm taking the opportunity that I have been

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<v Speaker 1>given to continue to put out this content for y'all.

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<v Speaker 1>If that's something that means something to you, If you

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate this labor of love but still labor, go to

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<v Speaker 1>patreon dot com slash oh It's Big Ron help us out,

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<v Speaker 1>or go to the link in our show notes. Show

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<v Speaker 1>art from Heather Wilder. Theme music by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder.

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<v Speaker 1>For more information about Avatar, Fire and Ash, check out

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<v Speaker 1>our show notes. You can follow me on Instagram, Blue Sky, TikTok, threads,

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<v Speaker 1>or letterbox at Owitz Big Ron. That's at h I

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<v Speaker 1>T S B I g r N. You find out

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<v Speaker 1>more about this show and other O It's Big Ron

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<v Speaker 1>Studio shows by following us on Instagram at Owitz Big

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<v Speaker 1>Ron Studios. Leaving the theater will be back soon. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for listening. I'm Ronald Young Junior, and I'm too much

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<v Speaker 1>dip on the chip in the worst of ways,