WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:14.160 Day I saw you are my dreams called Coax. Paul 2 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:24.760 from the Stems me shadow row in min the branch 3 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:34.560 of the Allison Trioso. She wines to find the phone 4 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:45.840 and when I touched her me my favorite brand. 5 00:00:46.200 --> 00:01:03.600 Blow just wants you to stop saying odd shit like 6 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.200 you smell a psychosphere. You're in someone's faded memory of 7 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:08.359 a town. Just stop. 8 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:11.439 Hey, what's up? Guys? 9 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.239 Welcome to No Way Jose. Today I am joined by 10 00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:17.120 Steven Delay and we are doing a True Detective Season 11 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:19.879 one analysis. I've been looking forward to doing this for 12 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:22.519 quite a long time. I was blown away when I 13 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:25.400 first watched that first season, and I don't know if 14 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.120 I'll necessarily ever watch any other seasons from what I've 15 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:30.359 heard of reviews of them, but man, maybe we'll have 16 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:31.560 a little side discussion on that. 17 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.200 I'm not worried about though. 18 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:35.400 I'm not a huge cinema guy, so I mean it's 19 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:37.760 not like somebody need in my life. But Season one 20 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:42.040 definitely was a pretty mind blowing experience, and I would 21 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:43.319 recommend it for a lot. 22 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:43.959 Of for most people. 23 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:46.239 And we'll get into that today, the reasons why and 24 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:49.359 why it's such a great masterpiece in my opinion. But 25 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:51.680 before we get into that, before we bring under your guests, 26 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.239 I do want to remind you guys that today's episode 27 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.239 was brought to you by Nadou Shaefko. If you tie 28 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:59.480 that razor burnt irritation, those ingrown hairs from those multiplay cartches, 29 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:01.319 then this is the way to go. You can shave 30 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:02.959 just like your grandpa used to, whether you're saving your 31 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.040 old face or edging your beard. The single blades give 32 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:06.959 you a Barbara grade shave for a fraction of the 33 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.599 price the standard issue gives you is seventy five bucks, 34 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:11.360 and it comes with the one hundred sealless steel razor 35 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:12.840 blades that's supposed to last a year. 36 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:14.599 It's probably gonna last you a lot longer. 37 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:15.919 But if you're some of whose shaves on the daily 38 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.199 or every other day or so, you're gonna want to 39 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.120 consider the quarter Shave Club that's gonna put you about 40 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:21.879 twenty five cents per replacement blade. 41 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:23.680 Now let's recap this real quick. 42 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:26.280 This is a This is a superior shaving product in 43 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.479 the sense it is better for your skin, is a 44 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.080 better shave, It is a cheaper product, and it is 45 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:33.199 from a company that it doesn't hate your guts. This 46 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:35.680 is a COVID mandate refusing company. He was born and 47 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:37.879 refusing the COVID mandate. And on top of all that, 48 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.319 you can use Codejose for ten percent off your order. 49 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:41.039 Let him know. 50 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.879 I sencha with that. Let's get into the show. Let's 51 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.879 get Steven on here and get into some true Detective analysis. 52 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:49.520 What is up, Stephen? How are you today? 53 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:50.280 I'm good? 54 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.759 How are you good? Glad to have you here. 55 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.560 Been looking forward to this, We've been probably least a 56 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.080 month ago. We talked and we kicked around this idea. 57 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.240 I think you'd seen when my appearents there's some thing 58 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.240 I just kind of naturally fell together that I don't 59 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.120 know if you'd heard me talk about True Detective or what, 60 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.759 but you've you've done this before. This is kind of 61 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:09.919 your thing, you seem to. I mean, this is a 62 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.919 cultural milieu. Is your thing is analyzing that? So I 63 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:16.960 guess kind of let people know who you are, what 64 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:20.360 you're about, so my audience could get a feel for 65 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:22.439 you before we get into today's episode. 66 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.520 Yeah, I learned if your show through your appearance on 67 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:31.000 Sam Tripoli's podcast, And Yeah, I immediately recognize that you're 68 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:33.560 interested in a lot of the work that I've been 69 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.360 interested in for a number of years as well. I'm 70 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.159 a writer and a philosopher, so some of the work 71 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:44.840 I do is academic, scholarly philosophical work, particularly excuse me, 72 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:50.400 and a field of philosophy called phenomenology in existentialism. And 73 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.479 I'm also a fiction writer. And then at the same time, 74 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.479 I'm also interested in film study studies and film phenomenology, 75 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.560 but more particular I'm interested in cultural engineering studies and 76 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:06.439 how cinema and television can be used as well in 77 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:10.560 effect weapons of psychological warfare. And at the moment, I 78 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.120 have an interest particularly in the genre of film noir. 79 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:16.959 So I've been working on a noir book, and I've 80 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:22.519 recently written on Chinatown for a publication called Cultural Engineering Studies, 81 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.480 which is founded by the guys that do Sye Up Cinema. 82 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:27.839 And so I've had noir on my mind for a while, 83 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:31.360 and we recently did an episode on True Detective last year, 84 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:33.720 and so I really just jumped at the chance to 85 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.279 be here with you tonight to talk more about True Detective. 86 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:38.800 Well, I'm glad to have you here. 87 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.240 This is something that I've I've been itching at I 88 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:44.040 mean literally, I see in almost everything I do now, 89 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.439 especially given the realm, the area that I dig into, 90 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:54.240 the parapolitical, the Dutros, the Finders, all these awful cases, 91 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:57.600 I get drawn to them. I am very much identify 92 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.360 with a Rusty Cole when he says, you know, I 93 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:03.000 I won't look away again. I know there's something too 94 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.759 that there's there's a great message to this movie. I mean, 95 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:08.079 then you have the the inverse of that, which is Marty, 96 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.560 who kind of his whole shtick is he doesn't want 97 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.240 to look like he's kind of the average well meaning 98 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:16.319 person that just doesn't just wants to pretend there isn't. 99 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.399 This evil side of the world. And I don't know. 100 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:21.639 That's I think that's part of why this show had 101 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:23.680 such a big impact in me, because I'd already been 102 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:26.000 so I just came across the show, like in the 103 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.160 past year, but I'd been already so inundated in the 104 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:31.439 parapolitical world, like I you know, Oklahoma City Bomb, Like 105 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:33.759 I just studied so much of this shit now that like, 106 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:37.319 and then I came across this, and then it just 107 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.319 it was so far advanced revelation and method wise, it 108 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.439 compared to like other things that I had seen, and 109 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:46.000 then I come to find out that it's actually been 110 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.399 out for a decent amount of time, and I believe 111 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.800 it happened before really. I mean, I know people will say, like, 112 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.519 you know, things like Epstein were talked about to be 113 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:58.199 full like on Alex Jones, you know, prior to this 114 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:01.040 around this time, but it was like, culturally speaking, it 115 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:03.480 was a non existent thing, like people didn't know about him. 116 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:06.199 So at the time when this came out, like, yes, 117 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:08.800 I guess sure if you were super duper into the know, 118 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:10.879 maybe you would know these sort of things, but for 119 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.360 the most part, it was nowhere near what it is 120 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.120 today the level of like a cultural understanding of these 121 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.680 sorts of things. And this is when it came out, 122 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:22.240 and I already I was astounded the level of like, 123 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:25.279 holy shit, this is so many parallels to the things 124 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:29.480 I study, Like I was already as sounded by that 125 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.279 watching it in twenty twenty four. So it's been out 126 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:34.079 for a believe over somewhere in the realm of like 127 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.680 a decade. So I just I guess I've kind of 128 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.079 like to hear about your initial experience with the show. 129 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.199 Where were you in your journey parapolitically or conspiracy wise 130 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.600 or whatever. Were you was this something that you picked 131 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:48.319 up on that, because I guess a lot of people 132 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.639 don't pick up on that, and so I think maybe 133 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:54.519 they're missing, maybe maybe doesn't speak to them as deeply 134 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:56.519 as it does other people who are kind of interested 135 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:58.720 in that stuff. But I mean, even then, I watched 136 00:06:58.759 --> 00:06:59.839 my wife, who is kind of a little bit more, 137 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:01.759 and she still thought liked it. 138 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:02.720 She wasn't like blown away. 139 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:04.920 Clearly, I was like, damn near crying by the end 140 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:06.639 of the first by the end of the first season, 141 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:07.439 like it was beautiful. 142 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.920 So I guess it passed enough to you. Just your thoughts. 143 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:13.279 I mean, I'm kind of pregnant with thoughts when it 144 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:14.160 comes to this show. 145 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:18.399 Well, this season is in a way the holy grail 146 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:22.040 for conspiracy researchers, isn't it, Because in a way it 147 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.800 confirms one of the fundamental theses that those who work 148 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:29.920 in parapolitical research and conspiracy research for so long I've 149 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.040 talked about, which is the expression you just mentioned in passing, 150 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:37.680 namely revelation of the method and the idea that number 151 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:40.600 of researchers have had, really now for many decades, is 152 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.720 that in cinema and in television and other art. The 153 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:49.040 occult and the people who really run the world will 154 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:54.040 expose the public to secrets about the criminal underworld and 155 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.839 the world of blackmail and extortion, and in the case 156 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:02.720 of what's shown Intro Detective, the ritualistic abuse and torture 157 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:05.759 and murder of children. And of course there's a question 158 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.199 about why it is that they would reveal these things, 159 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:11.160 and that's a question that I think we can turn 160 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.120 to at the very end of the discussion, once we 161 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:15.360 sort of work through what's in the show and the 162 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:19.120 parallels between what's shown in the season and a number 163 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:22.680 of real life cases. You mentioned some of them already, 164 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:28.120 the Finders, the Franklin cover up, the Presidio, McMartin preschool, 165 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.759 and then of course more recently Pizzagate and Epstein, and 166 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:37.519 then also Jerry Sandusky situation in Penn State. For me personally, 167 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:40.320 the show immediately gripped me because when it was released 168 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.320 in twenty fourteen, I was already really down the rabbit 169 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:47.039 hole with conspiracies. So like back in college in the odds, 170 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:49.600 like in two thousand and five, I figured out about 171 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:52.000 nine to eleven being an inside job and I was 172 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.559 watching INFO Wars, so I learned about Bohemian Grove and Moloch, 173 00:08:55.879 --> 00:09:00.240 and so I was aware of vip pedalphile rings and 174 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:05.120 that kind of activity. What I didn't understand until later 175 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.799 was that it's actually much more pervasive. And of course 176 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.440 it's not something that's relegated only to these really truly 177 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:15.799 powerfully leaked circles. It's really something that has saturated really 178 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:19.080 all dimensions of society, all social classes. And that's something 179 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.960 I think comes out in season one is that you 180 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:25.120 see that this network or this ring really goes all 181 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:27.320 the way down to like what we call like trailer trash, 182 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:30.200 all the way up to the governor of Louisiana. And then, 183 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.519 of course, as we know from doing research in other cases, 184 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:36.440 it's not even just something that occurs in a place 185 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.399 like Louisiana. But it happens in Washington, DC, it happens 186 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.240 in Los Angeles, that happens in New York, it happens 187 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:44.840 in the United Kingdom in London, and it happens in Europe. 188 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.240 It happens everywhere. So when I saw the show initially 189 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.000 in twenty fourteen, I was blown away, and I wondered, well, 190 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:55.840 how is the show even made, because one thing to 191 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.240 note is that, of course, as people have seen the 192 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:02.519 show will know the the events that are take place. 193 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.919 It spans a seventeen year chronology, So in a way, 194 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:08.720 the story begins in ninety five with the door Lang murder, 195 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.000 when Marty and Russ are called to the scene of 196 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.559 the body that they find, and then the show concludes 197 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:17.639 in twenty twelve, and there's a sort of like turning 198 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:20.600 point in two thousand and two, and so the way 199 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:23.120 that the show is structured is in kind of like 200 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:27.039 classic noir styles through voiceovers and recollections of Marty and 201 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.480 Russ thinking back in twenty twelve while they're being interviewed 202 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:34.519 by these other investigators about the events from ninety five 203 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:36.840 onward into two thousand and two, and then the show 204 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:39.480 culminates in what happens in real life at the time 205 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:42.919 in twenty twelve, and in some of the early episodes 206 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.559 that are focused primarily on what was going on with 207 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.039 the initial investigation into the first murder in ninety five, 208 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.279 there's allusions to what people will know is the Satanic 209 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.600 panic from the nineteen eighties. And so the interesting thing 210 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.399 about this show as a cultural artifact coming out in 211 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:05.960 twenty four is that it's referencing the real life. People 212 00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:08.879 called it hysterio, though it really wasn't It wasn't a panic. 213 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:12.279 It was well founded about ritualistic abuse and child abuse 214 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:14.480 that occurred in the eighties, and then there was a 215 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.799 kind of awareness of this with missing children and you 216 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:20.000 think about, like, you know, the Walsh disappearance and all 217 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.519 this stuff into the nineties, and then by the time 218 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:24.399 we get into the Odds, a lot of that kind 219 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:26.799 of awareness and consciousness. I think it sort of receded 220 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.120 from the public domain, and it was the people who 221 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:34.080 were still engaged in parapolitical analysis and ritualistic occult activity 222 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.600 who never lost sight of the fact that some of 223 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:38.759 the things that it bubbled into the surface of the 224 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:41.919 public awareness in the eighties and nineties had been legitimate 225 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:45.600 and that they had continued on. And it wasn't until 226 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.080 actually after the release of this show, with Pizzagate and 227 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.559 then with Epstein, that the public kind of caught up 228 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.679 and realized, hey, wait a second, we've sort of had 229 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:56.679 this thirty four year hangover where we've all sort of 230 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:00.279 collectively forgotten that a lot of these cases that drew 231 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.919 national attention back in the eighties and nineties were real 232 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.200 and they were genuine, and so what the show had 233 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.679 shown in twenty fourteen, it was kind of like interestingly, 234 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.200 like poet poised between what had happened in the eighties 235 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:16.399 and nineties and then what it had been forgotten and 236 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:18.960 then what was shortly revealed right a few years afterwards 237 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:23.360 with Pisagate and then Epstein. And so it's open to 238 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:27.159 interpretation about why exactly the show was released, but one 239 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:30.120 of the consequences, whether it was intentional or not on 240 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.080 the part of HBO and those who were behind it, 241 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:37.480 is that the show actually lent a lot of credence 242 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.279 to researchers who for years have been saying that these 243 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:42.840 kinds of things really happened. Because of course, right after 244 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.440 when the show was released and Pizzagate came out and 245 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.559 then Epstein, people could point and say, this is what 246 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.000 we're talking about, And so True Detective really is revelation 247 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:54.320 of the method. This isn't just fantasy, this isn't just art, 248 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.440 this isn't just imagination. This is really grounded in how 249 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.200 the world really works. So I think for that reason, 250 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:03.919 the show in a way kind of backfired against people 251 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.000 who may have put the show out with the intention 252 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.519 of sort of refber refurbishing the idea that these kinds 253 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:14.879 of things were just imaginary, that they were just uh, 254 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:19.120 creative illusions, that there really was only a satanic panic. 255 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:23.000 People who watched the show were kind of inducted into 256 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.799 this occult world. And then just a few years after 257 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.919 seeing the show, there were these mainstream international headlines with 258 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.960 pizza Gate and Epstein showing that no, actually this stuff 259 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:33.759 really does occur. 260 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:36.399 Mhmm, yeah, I did want. 261 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.000 I did want to take a second and to analyze 262 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.519 something that you said. I was just thinking about it, 263 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:43.440 and it's never occurred to me, and I had I 264 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.639 had thought about the the parallels about the initial like 265 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.080 the opening scene of this entire show is, uh, the 266 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.240 was the field on fire and they find the they 267 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.279 find a body, and I believe there's an anonymous call 268 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.799 or something that that was called in or something to 269 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.120 report the fire, I believe, and then that's when they 270 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:00.960 discover a body. 271 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:03.840 Now, I don't know to what degree. 272 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.840 You've delved into the Detroit case, but in the Detroit case, 273 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.440 the kind of I guess you could almost call it 274 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.159 like the heart of the Detroit case is a Christine 275 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.759 van heast case, and the reason and being is X 276 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:16.200 one or Regina Loof like the probably the best person 277 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.519 to corroborate these claims. She made a bunch of sub 278 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.240 claims that were backed up in the Christina van Heyst case. 279 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:23.840 You know this, there was no way she could have 280 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.679 known all these details without having been there kind of deal, 281 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.399 and there was. It was some ridiculous amount that iron 282 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:31.360 the irony is and they put they take one or 283 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:35.000 two little examples of something that would be easily you know, misremembered, 284 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.320 and and they use those as reasons why she was 285 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.080 not credible later. But I digress. The point being is 286 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.879 it starts off in that case. In the Christine van 287 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.759 Hee's case, there was it literally was the house, the 288 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.720 this mushroom farm was on fire, and that they set 289 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.799 it on fire after doing essentially you know, I think 290 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.039 it's heavily implied it might be ritual, but some sort 291 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.360 of sadistic, sadistic you know, rape of a child and 292 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.279 they kill her and leave her there and set the 293 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.360 farm on fire. And there's an anonymous call. So that's 294 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.840 kind of the initial jump. Also, I was thinking, you know, 295 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.639 there's also the there's a parallel there because the idea 296 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.120 of the Christine van Hee's case, the way that played 297 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.440 into the dutrou case is it was kind of a 298 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:19.879 jumping back in time. So it reminds me of the 299 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.519 second case that they when they're running into. I forget 300 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:25.480 the name of the second girl, and I believe that's 301 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:27.320 the one ends up being the girl in the video. 302 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:30.840 But the idea that initially they're on they start this 303 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:32.840 one one case and then they dig into this one 304 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.399 that seems unrelated and they come to find out it's 305 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.519 obviously a huge revelation later. And so obviously there's these 306 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:40.600 parallels here. I mean, the more I dig into it, 307 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:43.279 the more I'm like convinced that this guy was super 308 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.360 inspired by Dutroux. Fair I just I struggled to believe 309 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:47.919 he did it hadn't dug into it. I see too 310 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:49.720 many parallels, But I just want to point that one 311 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:51.559 out because that was the first one from the jump. 312 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.440 I know we had wanted to. It sounds like you 313 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:55.120 may have already. 314 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:56.919 If there's any more exposition you want to give on 315 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.559 the plot, feel I just want to go into that 316 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.399 before I lost that in my head that I remember 317 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.879 that there was that parallel between there, But is there 318 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:05.600 anything more you want to go into the plot before 319 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.159 we started dissecting more of this film, because I know 320 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:10.639 you kind of we wanted to lay out the plot 321 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.720 a little bit first, because I mean, it's kind of 322 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.759 almost necessary to go into that so people have an 323 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.360 idea of what exactly we're talking about first. 324 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.000 You know, Hey, by the way, spoilers alert. 325 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:26.399 So yeah, I think the name of the girl from 326 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.039 the show you're thinking is Olivier is her last name. 327 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.759 So you know, the way that I think about this show, 328 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.120 there's really I think three stages to any sort of 329 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.600 rational logical discussion of the show, because there's just so 330 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:43.480 much material that it can quickly become I think, unwieldy 331 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:45.960 to try to digest all of it. So and just 332 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.320 thinking about it myself. This is a season I've watched 333 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.080 now probably seven or eight times. I rewatched it over 334 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.799 the weekend in preparation for tonight, so I have it 335 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:56.840 fresh in my mind, and I was trying to think, 336 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.519 how in the world am I going to organize my 337 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.559 thoughts to try to get into this, And so what 338 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:05.200 I thought we might do is just quickly work through 339 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:09.920 episode by episode. The plot exposition, so that listeners who 340 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.400 either perhaps have never seen the show or at least 341 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.039 haven't seen in some time, can really just kind of 342 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.839 imbibe the atmosphere of the show. And the thing about noir, 343 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.400 right is that typically the way that it works is 344 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.240 that the viewer in a way is supposed to identify 345 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.680 with the protagonists. One's supposed to become the detective because 346 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.319 of course one is piecing together the case along with 347 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:39.079 the detectives oneself. So part of what's going on as 348 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.680 viewers is that we're trying to figure out what's really 349 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.400 going on, but we can also notice things that the 350 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:47.759 detectives themselves overlook, and so there are certain things that 351 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.960 Marty and Rust, as great of detectives as they are, 352 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.319 and even though they do in a way get to 353 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.759 the bottom of much of the case, I think if 354 00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:01.039 you pay careful attention to the events across the show, 355 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.759 you find out that there's actually really important things that 356 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.000 they do overlook. So what I was thinking was just 357 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:10.400 run through the episodes, highlights some of the key events, 358 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.880 the characters, certain details that are worth mentioning, I think 359 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.119 with an eye to the second part of the discussion, 360 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.720 which is how is what's being shown in the show 361 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.319 pertained or parallel a lot of these real life cases. 362 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:24.960 And then the question that follows from there, the third 363 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.359 and final question is then what was the intention behind 364 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:31.599 this show? Like, why would it put so much real 365 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:35.359 information into the show. What's the intention behind releasing this 366 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:40.960 kind of this kind of art. So let's see episode one. 367 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.720 It's called The Long Bright Dark, and as you say, 368 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.480 begins with the discovery of a dead woman, twenty eight 369 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.319 year old prostitute Dora Lang, who's discovered naked, blindfolded or 370 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.400 wrists abound, and she's posed in a prayerful position on 371 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.680 a tree, beneath a tree, and she has stab booms 372 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.519 on her and she also has what we now know 373 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.039 is the FBI confirmed pedo swirl. And again, of course 374 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:13.359 this isn't news to anybody, but it's important, I think 375 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.920 to mention anyhow, when the show was released, those swirls, 376 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.400 so far as I know, were not public record. So 377 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.319 the pedo swirls and the FBI documentation about these symbols 378 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.640 that came out after this show, So whoever was involved 379 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:31.400 in the show somehow had access to that information, and 380 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.839 that's a question. To my knowledge, it's never been answered 381 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.200 how it exactly. 382 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.359 You don't think that was So you don't think that 383 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.680 was deep lore that we knew, that was known by 384 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.160 some super in the know at that point, because I mean, 385 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.079 it's hard to say what is known at what point 386 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.799 in time, Because I know what you mean, it did 387 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.000 become more it did become more pervasive, and the cultural 388 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:55.640 understanding after Pizzagate, that's when the swirl came out or 389 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:57.160 not came out. It's when it kind of like people 390 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:01.559 started connecting these symbols. But you probably sounds like you 391 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:03.640 were deeper down the rabbit hole earlier than I was. 392 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.440 So I mean, so you're saying you don't think it 393 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.039 really was at all, Like so this would be super 394 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:10.640 deep cut knowledge type deal. 395 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.039 Yeah, But what I'm saying is that that symbology, that symbolism, 396 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.319 and everybody knows the basics. You know, the pyramid, the 397 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.920 the one CNI, the six sixty six, all that kind 398 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:25.599 of stuff appears throughout film and television going many years back. 399 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.559 But in cleaning I would assume the pedos world as well. 400 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.039 But what I'm saying is that that that particular symbol 401 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:36.119