Speaker 1: Hey all turn me up just a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that Man's Space five.
Speaker 1: Step in the song Michael Phone.
Speaker 2: Checker Russ and let's got the real intellect talks move
Speaker 2: Black Jazz on her late nights with a corboat deep
Speaker 2: and the topics come in from the struggles that the winds.
Speaker 2: They address it with grat drop. But that's so cool.
Speaker 2: You can fill the fans to kings of the graph,
Speaker 2: you know the rest kick black Patin, Welcome to the space.
Speaker 2: You'll go chillin with bursting less, you will go childing
Speaker 2: with bussing less. You'll go chillan with brushing last hang
Speaker 2: out Chus now your bother with nothing but the best
Speaker 2: space driver.
Speaker 3: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome in to another edition of the Man
Speaker 3: Space podcast. Now this this is the voice of Russ
Speaker 3: and this is another edition of the Russ and Company
Speaker 3: series where I take the time to interview some people,
Speaker 3: just amazing people all across the globe. And today is
Speaker 3: no different because ManSpace Station Today. My guest is a
Speaker 3: clinical psychologist and the founder of the Royal Oasis Psychotherapy Institute,
Speaker 3: with over fifteen years of helping thousands of people take
Speaker 3: back control of their focus, emotions, and decision making. He
Speaker 3: brings a powerful mix of science and real world mental
Speaker 3: performance tools. He's worked on the front lines of trauma
Speaker 3: care and high pressure environments, and he is the host
Speaker 3: of the long running podcast Meditations, where he has turned
Speaker 3: deep psychological insight into practical everyday strategies manspaceination. This is
Speaker 3: a conversation you definitely don't want to miss and welcome
Speaker 3: in my guests, Doctor Gregory t Obert, Hello, Rash, Hello, Hello, Oh,
Speaker 3: thank you so.
Speaker 1: Much for having me. And I got to say that
Speaker 1: intro song is just incredible. I love listening to it.
Speaker 1: It is so catchy, and I just I feel honored
Speaker 1: to be on the air right after such an incredible
Speaker 1: song and the very warm intro of course as well.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny because when the song plays, I'm
Speaker 3: really trying not to dance while I'm sitting here because
Speaker 3: I'm like, I know they can see me dancing, so
Speaker 3: I'm just like, let me just kind of I'll try
Speaker 3: to keep it as minimal as possible while I'm moving around.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that song is very very catchy. I just
Speaker 3: I love it so but thank you so much, and
Speaker 3: thank you for spending time with me here. So if
Speaker 3: you could just kind of share with the man Space
Speaker 3: Nation a little bit about yourself and how did you
Speaker 3: get into the world of psychology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's sort of a standard story that you
Speaker 1: would hear from mental health practitioners. Typically, people get into
Speaker 1: mental health for one of two reasons. Either something bad
Speaker 1: happened to them or they got some help from somebody
Speaker 1: and then they wanted to sort of return the favor.
Speaker 1: And in my case, it was a bit of both.
Speaker 1: So when I was in high school, my parents ended
Speaker 1: up getting divorced, and at that time it was very,
Speaker 1: very difficult for me. I was struggling a lot in
Speaker 1: school and I ended up seeing a therapist myself, and
Speaker 1: she was absolutely wonderful. She really helped me put things
Speaker 1: into perspective, gave me that space to work through everything
Speaker 1: that I was thinking and feeling. And coincidentally, at the
Speaker 1: same time, which was very odd for high schools, at
Speaker 1: least from what I've heard, we also had a psychology
Speaker 1: course offered, so I took a high school psychology course,
Speaker 1: and between both of those things, I just I had
Speaker 1: a sense of this is what I want to do,
Speaker 1: and once I had that, there was no looking back.
Speaker 3: Wow, you know, and to figure it out that early on,
Speaker 3: because a lot of times in high school we don't
Speaker 3: have a clue that our biggest thought is to graduate.
Speaker 3: That's it, very true. So just to figure out what
Speaker 3: you want to do at that point in your life, man,
Speaker 3: that is fantastic. And especially when you get into a
Speaker 3: point of knowing it that early, then going to college
Speaker 3: and take and studying that field. Because so many of
Speaker 3: us we graduate college and don't work in our fields.
Speaker 3: You know, that adds on, like added stress to try
Speaker 3: to find something, find a career, just to do something
Speaker 3: in general, just to pay the bills, keep a roof
Speaker 3: over your head, you know. With that, I mean, we
Speaker 3: talk about stress on this show and emotional health and things.
Speaker 3: What do you feel is some of the biggest ways
Speaker 3: as we could alleviate some of the stress that we
Speaker 3: deal with in our lives. I'm jumping right into the
Speaker 3: deep end.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, well, here's your simples. Just
Speaker 1: stop it right there, you go answer your question. No,
Speaker 1: of course, it's a little bit more complicated than that.
Speaker 3: Stop it.
Speaker 1: That's right. I'm sure it will work really well for you.
Speaker 3: There will be a new host on ManSpace podcast next week.
Speaker 3: Try that one.
Speaker 1: We'll salute you to us and say push you well
Speaker 1: in the afterlife. No, but in all seriousness, I mean
Speaker 1: stress is one of those terms that you know, I
Speaker 1: hear a lot, and I haven't often had a insistent
Speaker 1: definition thrown at me. So I like to use this
Speaker 1: definition with all of the clients that I work with,
Speaker 1: and it's this stresses when demands outweigh resources. And that
Speaker 1: makes the most sense to me, because of course we
Speaker 1: all have demands on our lives. We all have that pressure,
Speaker 1: and when we have the necessary resources, we're fine. We
Speaker 1: can handle it, it's no problem. It's when we start
Speaker 1: to lose out or not have those resources to still
Speaker 1: meet those demands that things start to get a little
Speaker 1: bit tricky. And of course we can do that for
Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, I suspect you and your
Speaker 1: listeners as well, have been in spaces where sometimes you
Speaker 1: just didn't quite have it an you or you think
Speaker 1: you didn't have it any and you just pushed a
Speaker 1: little bit more anyways, and you're able to get through.
Speaker 1: But if you're someone who's doing that chronically and just
Speaker 1: scraping the bottom of the barrel day after day, week
Speaker 1: after week, you're going to find yourself in some really
Speaker 1: dicey territory.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that definition and how you put it,
Speaker 3: because that is essentially life in general. I mean, we
Speaker 3: look at so much of what's going on today from
Speaker 3: gas prices, of food prices, you know, all that's increasing,
Speaker 3: and your wages are not going with it to help
Speaker 3: cover that. So a lot of people are starting to
Speaker 3: struggle and start to feel that added pressure and stress
Speaker 3: going on. So yeah, that is to me, that's the
Speaker 3: perfect definition of it. But I want to ask you
Speaker 3: this one. Being a clinical psychologist and helping people deal
Speaker 3: with focus and things like that, what is your opinion
Speaker 3: when it comes to medicine and this descriptions that a
Speaker 3: lot of doctors give to help deal with, you know,
Speaker 3: attention deficit and different things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, huge topic. Now, I suspect it is specifically ADHD.
Speaker 1: Were talking just kind of psycho psychotropist in generals.
Speaker 3: In general, not so much just in general just ADHD,
Speaker 3: but just in general. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the research is pretty clear on medication. Twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of people only need medication and they thrive and
Speaker 1: that's it. They're good, right, Twenty five percent of people
Speaker 1: only need talk therapy, and they're good. Fifty percent of
Speaker 1: people need a combination of both. So I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there that we tend to
Speaker 1: kind of be very binary with the meds. It's like
Speaker 1: go all meds or go you know, no meds. I
Speaker 1: kind of think about medication is more like a crutch,
Speaker 1: and maybe you need it for a little bit of
Speaker 1: time to kind of get through whatever it is that
Speaker 1: you're working through, possibly in combination with some sort of
Speaker 1: talk therapy, but after a while you may not need it,
Speaker 1: though it's okay to get off it. The problem is,
Speaker 1: I think what you were speaking to, which is a
Speaker 1: lot of medical doctors, and this includes psychiatrists as well.
Speaker 1: Because they're mds, they don't really know much about talk therapy,
Speaker 1: nor are they supposed to. I mean, they don't go
Speaker 1: to school for that. Although I do get a little
Speaker 1: judge with the psychiatrists because I can't tell you the
Speaker 1: number of times I've run into psychologists who are asked
Speaker 1: to teach psychotherapy courses and how these psychiatrists just sleep
Speaker 1: through the classes, just don't show up at all. So
Speaker 1: they're supposed to know how to do it, but they
Speaker 1: don't always so of course, the incentive is there to
Speaker 1: just prescribe a medicaltion, and being that our culture is
Speaker 1: very instant gratification much of the time, Okay, well I'm
Speaker 1: just going to use this pill and I'm going to
Speaker 1: feel better. It's a very slippery slope for many people. Now,
Speaker 1: if you happen to have a medication that works for you,
Speaker 1: it evens you out. Maybe you've been on medication, you're
Speaker 1: able to get off it. Maybe you needed to go
Speaker 1: back on it for a little bit. That's okay. But
Speaker 1: I think if people just tend to go, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to my doctor, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: a medication and then I'm going to be fine. Unless
Speaker 1: you're part of that twenty five percent of the population,
Speaker 1: it's probably not going to be enough.
Speaker 3: Wow. A lot of times I do feel that, you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes the medication is not necessarily needed, and sometimes some
Speaker 3: doctors may not spend enough time with the patient to
Speaker 3: get really to know. It's almost like a here, just
Speaker 3: throw this at them and they'll be all right, you know,
Speaker 3: type of deal. It's kind of my opinion from what
Speaker 3: I've seen with some some cases, and you know, it
Speaker 3: becomes a little I think that goes back and adds
Speaker 3: even more stress into a situation for everybody who's around
Speaker 3: the person, you know, trying to make sure oh yeah,
Speaker 3: go ahead.
Speaker 1: Just to jump in there, I would say that it's
Speaker 1: not really your opinion. I mean that that tends to
Speaker 1: be the case. I mean, psychiatrists are incentivized to really
Speaker 1: prescribe medication a because that's something that they're allowed to
Speaker 1: do with their privileges as mds. But then be what's
Speaker 1: going to make more money? Right, it's going to be
Speaker 1: I'm going to cram three four people into an hour,
Speaker 1: see them for fifteen to twenty minutes. How's everything going great?
Speaker 3: Cool?
Speaker 1: Medication? Find oh you need a change or you know,
Speaker 1: and then I'll see in three months. So that does
Speaker 1: tend to happen for a lot of people that are
Speaker 1: only relying on medication.
Speaker 3: Wow wow wow. Well, stress is something that everyone, I
Speaker 3: guess feels that they understand. But one of the things
Speaker 3: that I've read up on you you say that it
Speaker 3: actually quietly takes control of our decisions. Now, what does
Speaker 3: that really look like in everyday life?
Speaker 1: Well, it can be insidious. So you know, what might
Speaker 1: start out as okay, maybe I'm feeling just a little
Speaker 1: tense can actually turn into what I've called in the
Speaker 1: past amygdala hijack, or the emotional part of your brain
Speaker 1: taking over. So I mean, let's start with just let's
Speaker 1: say a typical day. Maybe you wake up a little
Speaker 1: bit late, or maybe you're a little slow starting, and
Speaker 1: you hop on the road, and of course there's traffic
Speaker 1: because of all days, maybe there's a minor fender bender,
Speaker 1: and naturally everybody's got to and look at it and
Speaker 1: go ten miles an hour rather than just keep on going.
Speaker 1: And you've taken some time off work recently, so of
Speaker 1: course you're late to the office, and your boss has
Speaker 1: given you the side eye, thinking that you need to
Speaker 1: be on time, especially after you've had all this time off.
Speaker 1: And then you sit down open your email and you
Speaker 1: have a ton of emails from all the time off
Speaker 1: you had. I could keep going, but I suspect you
Speaker 1: and maybe some of your listeners have been in this
Speaker 1: exact position. Heck, maybe they're in this exact position now
Speaker 1: as they listen to this episode. What can start out
Speaker 1: as Okay, well, I can handle being you know, a
Speaker 1: little bit slow today, maybe a racing thought or two,
Speaker 1: you know which which could could be I can handle it.
Speaker 1: I might have the resources in that moment. It could
Speaker 1: also be what is wrong with me, like I should
Speaker 1: have known it, I should have gone to bed earlier.
Speaker 1: I should have I should have, And now I'm bringing
Speaker 1: the hammer down on my self and judging myself for it.
Speaker 1: That can then spiral a little bit more with the
Speaker 1: added traffic jam, which can then spiral a little bit
Speaker 1: more with the side eye from the boss to the
Speaker 1: point where it's almost like death by a thousand cuts,
Speaker 1: as they say. Right, So, these these little pieces of
Speaker 1: stress add up to the point where your anxiety, which
Speaker 1: is just a clinical term for fear, your anxiety is
Speaker 1: going to start to raise. And I say you're able
Speaker 1: to operate logically in your zero to seven range, because
Speaker 1: typically when you're in that range, the logical part of
Speaker 1: your brain. This is the most neuroscience I'm going to
Speaker 1: give you and your audience. The space right behind your
Speaker 1: forehead is the prefrontal cortex, and that has to do
Speaker 1: with all of our decision making, our planning. And when
Speaker 1: we're in zero to seven, that signal is still pretty loud.
Speaker 1: It's able to calm themtional centers of the brain. Or
Speaker 1: at least regulated enough that we can get by. As
Speaker 1: soon as you find yourself at eight, that part of
Speaker 1: the brain gets very quiet, and the emotional part, which
Speaker 1: is in the very center of your skull, it just
Speaker 1: takes over. And now, instead of responding to the stress,
Speaker 1: you know, thoughtfully, consciously, you're just on autopilot. You're reacting,
Speaker 1: and this becomes I'm not even really thinking about what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I'm just so worked up and activated and
Speaker 1: stressed that I'm just gonna do whatever I need to
Speaker 1: do to get that emotion out, which might be snapping
Speaker 1: at people, that might mean isolating, that might mean trying
Speaker 1: to hurry up and get through your work. And of
Speaker 1: course it's not going to stay at work. If it
Speaker 1: is coming out at work, it's going to come home
Speaker 1: to well, if you're buyers, live by yourself, it's going
Speaker 1: to come out in you know, some negative ways. Extreme
Speaker 1: ways could be like drinking by yourself. Even with family,
Speaker 1: it might be not wanting to spend time with them,
Speaker 1: being short with them. So stress is something that can
Speaker 1: impact us on the daily and it can start out
Speaker 1: very small but ultimately have pretty lasting effects.
Speaker 3: So what are some of the signs, Because you know,
Speaker 3: we all have loved ones, we all have close friends,
Speaker 3: we all have people that that may count on us,
Speaker 3: but we or or you know from children that you know,
Speaker 3: what are some of the signs that stress is actually
Speaker 3: driving the wheel instead of us?
Speaker 1: The great question, because I think a lot of times,
Speaker 1: especially especially if you're a high achiever out there, you're
Speaker 1: going to think that, well, I'm able to handle this,
Speaker 1: I can work through it. It's fine, it's fine. Especially
Speaker 1: as men, right, we tend to be like, it's fine,
Speaker 1: I can handle it. Rub some dirt on it, just
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 3: On it. There you go.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately that's not going to make it go away.
Speaker 1: So what are some signs? Well, one of the common
Speaker 1: ones is you start to push away fun in your life.
Speaker 1: So those things that you used to enjoy you made
Speaker 1: time for, whether it's going to the gym, maybe it's
Speaker 1: playing sports, going to the theaters, whatever it is, you
Speaker 1: start to do less and less of that because well,
Speaker 1: you have so many other things going on and those
Speaker 1: are now going to take priority.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Another common sign is over stimulation. So it sounds ridiculous,
Speaker 1: but I can't tell you the number of clients I've
Speaker 1: talked to about this. They are dealing with so much
Speaker 1: stress that when they get home, all they want to
Speaker 1: do is just stare at a wall for like an hour.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, because there's just so much on their plate
Speaker 1: and they're making so many decisions, They're dealing with so
Speaker 1: many people who may or may not be competent in
Speaker 1: what they're doing, and so I just I need time
Speaker 1: away from everything. I don't want to look at a screen,
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to anybody. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to stare at the wall for a little bit until
Speaker 1: I can decompress. Excuse me, Wow, another thing, I'll give
Speaker 1: you this last one or third thing. I could keep going,
Speaker 1: but the third thing that you're going to notice when
Speaker 1: you're chronically stressed, you're going to notice those physiological changes
Speaker 1: in your body. And because we're always in our bodies,
Speaker 1: we're not necessarily always aware of the changes, because again
Speaker 1: they're subtle and they can build over time. Are you
Speaker 1: clenching your jaw a lot more? Are you storing tension
Speaker 1: more so than you do? So? For me, it's in
Speaker 1: my shoulders, right. I know that if I'm walking around
Speaker 1: like a scarecrow, then there's something going on. So if
Speaker 1: you're able to pay attention to these signs. It's not,
Speaker 1: of course, a surefire away that you're dealing with too
Speaker 1: much stress, but it is they are likely signs. They
Speaker 1: are signs that you are likely dealing with too much stress.
Speaker 3: Wow. Last week I interviewed doctor Gloria Vanderhurst and we
Speaker 3: were talking about that just a little bit as well,
Speaker 3: and that just made me think of the physiological changes
Speaker 3: that you go through. It can also be weight gain,
Speaker 3: It can be something as acne and things like that
Speaker 3: that you're starting to see in some cases, you know,
Speaker 3: it could even be hair loss and things of that
Speaker 3: nature that all play into it. Wow. I was also
Speaker 3: telling her, well, you made me think of I used
Speaker 3: to work it for a company, and I'd been there
Speaker 3: for a long time, but I got to the point
Speaker 3: where I was just so exhausted and so burnt out
Speaker 3: with it that when I would pull into the parking
Speaker 3: lot in the mornings, I would sit there in my
Speaker 3: car and just have to close my eyes and meditate
Speaker 3: for ten to fifteen minutes just to try to make
Speaker 3: it through the day, to give myself the strength to
Speaker 3: even walk in the building, because I didn't want to
Speaker 3: be there and it was just that bad. And when
Speaker 3: my wife and I, when we started dating, we would
Speaker 3: give ourselves ten minutes. Okay, you got ten minutes, tell
Speaker 3: me about your day, you know, get it all out,
Speaker 3: and she gets hers out, I get mine out, and
Speaker 3: after that we don't talk about work anymore.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It was just that was the only way that I could,
Speaker 3: I could deal with it was just all right, let
Speaker 3: me get it out and now it's out. Well it's done,
Speaker 3: let me move forward. And that was my coping mechanism
Speaker 3: for it. It was just otherwise I probably would have
Speaker 3: just completely just lost it over those years. You know,
Speaker 3: it just you know, you think of it to a balloon,
Speaker 3: and you keep pushing air into that balloon, and sooner
Speaker 3: or later that balloon is gonna pop if you don't
Speaker 3: start letting some of it out.
Speaker 1: Man, it sure is. And I have to say, the
Speaker 1: techniques you were using, although they maybe didn't feel like
Speaker 1: they were enough at the time, those are some pretty
Speaker 1: high level the techniques that you were doing. I mean,
Speaker 1: spending time meditating trying to get your focus back is
Speaker 1: one thing. Then also having someone you could talk to
Speaker 1: to vent to to get all that negative nonsense out.
Speaker 1: But then putting it away for the rest of the evening.
Speaker 1: That is not always easy to do, yet it is
Speaker 1: something that can be extremely helpful well, because imagine if
Speaker 1: someone even with the meditation, just came home and just
Speaker 1: wanted to rage and kind of vent for the next hour.
Speaker 1: I mean, right, that's a whole hour out of the day,
Speaker 1: and then maybe you know, as the night goes on, Oh,
Speaker 1: this thing reminded me of that other thing that I
Speaker 1: forgot to tell you about it working. Now we're right
Speaker 1: back on work and it's now we're spending upwards of
Speaker 1: one two hours just just simmering in this negativity. And
Speaker 1: understandable if you have a job where you're feeling burned out,
Speaker 1: it's also not always going to help you through that burnout.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true, especially when you look at it
Speaker 3: as you're in the office and you're getting off work
Speaker 3: at five. Now you're coming home and you've spent forty
Speaker 3: five minutes to an hour in a car in traffic
Speaker 3: to get home, and now you're home in front of
Speaker 3: your spouse and you got kids there that you got
Speaker 3: to deal with. But yet you have this negative energy
Speaker 3: that you have not gotten out, and now the kids
Speaker 3: are starting to fill the brunt of all of this,
Speaker 3: and yeah, it's it's a it can be a very
Speaker 3: dangerous cycle if we don't deal with it in the
Speaker 3: right way.
Speaker 1: Agreed wholeheartedly and exactly what you said too. Especially if
Speaker 1: you got kids. They pick up on that stuff. Even
Speaker 1: if you don't have kids, your significant other is likely
Speaker 1: going to know, hey, something's kind of off with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, even your pets know. I mean, yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: My dog used to come in and look, so Daddy's
Speaker 3: something and look at me and let me go the
Speaker 3: other way.
Speaker 1: I got to give him those ten minutes.
Speaker 3: That's right, give me ten I could play with you.
Speaker 3: But a lot of times when it comes to stress,
Speaker 3: we are way more reactive in our decision makings.
Speaker 1: Why do you feel that that is the case, Well,
Speaker 1: it goes back to what I mentioned a little bit earlier,
Speaker 1: that when we are at a high enough emotional intensity
Speaker 1: that right or higher. Yeah, that's just natural. It's human
Speaker 1: nature that we're just going to react. Now, if we're
Speaker 1: talking about even the zero to seven, maybe we're still
Speaker 1: able to have some logic, but we still find ourselves reacting.
Speaker 1: I mean, it kind of comes down to just the
Speaker 1: simple idea that nobody likes to be uncomfortable. Nobody likes
Speaker 1: to be in a space where they're just feeling overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: They're feeling flooded with all sorts of responsibilities and not
Speaker 1: enough resources, and sometimes oftentimes people don't even recognize what's happening.
Speaker 1: So there's this internal battle going on, and then somebody
Speaker 1: just completely innocently is going to step in and maybe
Speaker 1: ask you for something, or even just want to have
Speaker 1: a conversation how was your day when that's the last
Speaker 1: thing that you want to talk about because it just
Speaker 1: drove you bonkers. So if we don't have those outlets
Speaker 1: to get out whatever is going on with us, it's
Speaker 1: just going to make things that much worse. Again, it's
Speaker 1: not going to necessarily fix the situation, just like when
Speaker 1: you're talking about speaking with your wife. It didn't fix
Speaker 1: your job for you, no, but it did give you
Speaker 1: that space to release some of the pressure. And so
Speaker 1: if someone's out there dealing with this stress and they
Speaker 1: don't have that, yeah, they're just going to start reacting,
Speaker 1: even when they don't necessarily mean to do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're in that reactive space and stress is
Speaker 3: already hijacking your thinking. What's the first move that people
Speaker 3: should make to kind of interrupt that pattern?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this's gonna sound real woo woo. Right, And
Speaker 1: because I know this is a huge buzzword out there
Speaker 1: and everyone talks about it, and I'm going to try
Speaker 1: to convince you and your listeners that this is actually
Speaker 1: the best thing that you can do in those moments.
Speaker 1: The word I'm thinking of is mindfulness. So I know
Speaker 1: everyone's got a program, everyone's got a seminar. Pay me
Speaker 1: a thousand bucks, I get it. I'm going to save
Speaker 1: you and your listeners thousands of dollars on mindfulness seminars
Speaker 1: because I'm going to tell you everything that they're going
Speaker 1: to tell you right here for free.
Speaker 3: Here we go, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1: Mindfulness is paying attention on purpose to the present moment,
Speaker 1: non judgmentally. I'll say it again for those taking notes,
Speaker 1: paying attention on purpose to the present moment, non judgmentally,
Speaker 1: and by non judgmentally, I mean focusing on the facts
Speaker 1: of the situation as they are, not as we want
Speaker 1: them to be. Essentially, this idea of mindfulness is being
Speaker 1: aware of what's happening with us, within us, around us,
Speaker 1: in the moment, and that again, that sounds so basic,
Speaker 1: like duh, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here,
Speaker 1: I am trying to tell you what works. To sort
Speaker 1: of draw a parallel to this. For anyone familiar with
Speaker 1: twelve step program, Step one of twelve is recognizing that
Speaker 1: there's a problem. Now, there's eleven more steps after that,
Speaker 1: but you can't do any of those steps unless you
Speaker 1: recognize there's an issue. And so I can't change my
Speaker 1: reactivity to stress if I'm not aware that I am stressed,
Speaker 1: if I'm living my life on autopilot day in, day out,
Speaker 1: because maybe I was never taught how to look inside myself,
Speaker 1: check on my thinking, check on how my emotions are
Speaker 1: impacting my body. Maybe when I work with the veterans,
Speaker 1: we say I'll censor myself for the show, but you
Speaker 1: get a case of the efforts right. I don't care.
Speaker 1: I know this is bad for me, but I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna do it anyways, because efort right. Right though, whether
Speaker 1: it's because you don't have the skills or you just
Speaker 1: don't care in the moment, if you're not mindful, you're
Speaker 1: just going to continue to react. So step one of
Speaker 1: anything is identifying how you perform under pressure, and what
Speaker 1: are some common signs for you personally that you're feeling stressed.
Speaker 1: I gave some generic ones earlier. Your other guest also
Speaker 1: mentioned some great clues. Once you're able to find those,
Speaker 1: you can make changes. Now if you're saying to yourself, Okay, Greg,
Speaker 1: that sounds great, but I don't really understand how to
Speaker 1: be more mindful during the day because this sounds very
Speaker 1: woo woo. I have to be on the go, I
Speaker 1: have so many things to focus on. Well, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Mindfulness doesn't need to be, you know, like being a
Speaker 1: monk on a mountain somewhere and being up there for
Speaker 1: hours to be mindful. You actually touched on this a
Speaker 1: little bit already, Russ, when you said, Hey, I'm going
Speaker 1: to spend ten minutes just being with myself, being present
Speaker 1: and not focusing on anything else. We can start to
Speaker 1: build these mindfulness muscles by doing little things. So classic example,
Speaker 1: I use suspect you and hopefully your listeners as well,
Speaker 1: brush their teeth this morning. So while they were brushing
Speaker 1: their teeth, I doubt very many of them were feeling
Speaker 1: the weight of the toothbrush, tasting the flavor of the toothpaste,
Speaker 1: feeling the bristles on their teeth, on their gums. They're
Speaker 1: probably doing that on autopilot and thinking about everything else.
Speaker 1: I know I've done it before, and thinking about what
Speaker 1: comes next and multitasking. Yeah, but if I spent my
Speaker 1: one to two minutes brushing my teeth and focusing just
Speaker 1: on that, even if my mind wanders, just bringing it back,
Speaker 1: just okay, gently, non judgmentally, just bringing it back, focusing
Speaker 1: on that experience as it is, probably going to have
Speaker 1: a very different experience with brushing my teeth. And if
Speaker 1: I can start to do that with brushing my teeth,
Speaker 1: imagine what that looks like at work, Imagine what that
Speaker 1: looks like with family members. Because you're building those muscles,
Speaker 1: you can start to be more mindful throughout the day.
Speaker 1: So that's That's a lot of me talking. But hopefully
Speaker 1: all that makes sense.
Speaker 3: No, that makes perfect sense. Now I'm gonna ask you
Speaker 3: this just from my own personal because you know, this
Speaker 3: is to help me bump everybody else at this point,
Speaker 3: go for it. So one of the things that I
Speaker 3: struggle with is, you know, you talking about the toothbrush
Speaker 3: and focusing at that point is shutting my mind off
Speaker 3: because I'm constantly thinking of things, whether it's my nine
Speaker 3: to five work, whether it's doing this podcast, whether it's
Speaker 3: doing you know, doing all the editing, and thinking of
Speaker 3: my next guest and what am I going to talk
Speaker 3: about with the next guest. I'm constantly going to bed
Speaker 3: thinking of all these things, and to the point, if
Speaker 3: I get up at any point in the middle of
Speaker 3: the night, my mind instantly goes to thinking of all
Speaker 3: of these things. Now I have I went and bought
Speaker 3: one of those Bluetooth sleep masks so my eyes are covered,
Speaker 3: and I tend to listen to podcasts at night, or
Speaker 3: sometimes I would listen to UH meditation. I've listened to
Speaker 3: different uh the vibration tones at night, and I've tried
Speaker 3: all of those things, and it works for a little bit,
Speaker 3: and then I get back into the same old bolt
Speaker 3: where you know I've tried. I can't think of the
Speaker 3: guy's name, but he tries to UH talk you talk
Speaker 3: you to sleep, And so for a couple of minutes,
Speaker 3: I'm listening to every thought where he's now just imagining
Speaker 3: yourself and a running river, and by the time it
Speaker 3: gets the river, I'm thinking of Okay, so I have
Speaker 3: to interview this person later at four o'clock, and so
Speaker 3: now I've missed like fifteen minutes of what he's talking
Speaker 3: about because my mind is already thinking of what I
Speaker 3: got to do. What are some of the tips and
Speaker 3: that you would have that you would recommend for a
Speaker 3: person to be able to shut their mind off some
Speaker 3: and be able to just focus on what they're doing
Speaker 3: in the present.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it sounds like you're dealing with sort of
Speaker 1: that overstimulation that's happening throughout the day because you have
Speaker 1: so many responsibilities. The thing that I would tweak is
Speaker 1: the expectation because I've heard that before too, which is
Speaker 1: I need to turn my brain off. Your brain's never
Speaker 1: going to turn off, and we don't really want it
Speaker 1: to until we say goodbye to this moral coil, Right,
Speaker 1: And that's normal, that's.
Speaker 3: Natural, Okay.
Speaker 1: The thing that we want to really look at is
Speaker 1: how can we direct our thinking a little bit more effectively?
Speaker 1: Because what I'm hearing you say, and I suspect there
Speaker 1: are a lot of listeners out there where this has happened,
Speaker 1: and grad school wasn't a cakewalk for me. I had
Speaker 1: the same thing happen, you know, with dissertation and all
Speaker 1: sorts of things. And so when you notice that you
Speaker 1: can't even focus on you know, Joe mcsleepy's really nice
Speaker 1: guided meditation to get you to bed, that is a
Speaker 1: sign that something is wrong during the day, that there's
Speaker 1: probably too much stress, too much stimulation. Now we can
Speaker 1: look at that and just judge ourselves. Right, this is
Speaker 1: the judgmental piece coming in of I wish it wasn't
Speaker 1: that way. What's wrong with me? I'm so stupid, I'm
Speaker 1: just a loser. That's not being mindful, right, that's just
Speaker 1: making things worse, spinning things up. We can start to
Speaker 1: build the mindfulness muscles by focusing on the physical. That's
Speaker 1: how we can get a little bit more in touch
Speaker 1: with what are my thought patterns coming up throughout the day,
Speaker 1: what are my emotions and what are their intensity level?
Speaker 1: We have to work up to that. So I mentioned
Speaker 1: the idea about brushing your teeth. Maybe it's a matter
Speaker 1: of setting an alarm on your phone to check in
Speaker 1: with yourself. What am I thinking? What am I feeling? Sometimes,
Speaker 1: if you're not quite there and you want to focus
Speaker 1: on the physical, something as simple as hey, how does
Speaker 1: your shirt feel on your skin right now? How does
Speaker 1: that chair that you're sitting in hold you up?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: What's that feel like? And I suspect for you, Russ,
Speaker 1: and for anyone listening who may be sitting in a
Speaker 1: chair and hopefully wearing a shirt, they probably weren't thinking
Speaker 1: about those things. I'm not gonna judge. You know. If
Speaker 1: it's late at night, go take me.
Speaker 3: We're not judging. Judge free zone here.
Speaker 1: If you're listening at work, I don't know what job
Speaker 1: you have where you're not wearing a shirt, but here
Speaker 1: we are. But anyways, my point is that you probably
Speaker 1: weren't thinking about those things until I said something, and
Speaker 1: then as soon as I said something, your mind was
Speaker 1: immediately focused on those details. Well wait a minute, how
Speaker 1: does that shirt feel on my skin?
Speaker 3: Yet?
Speaker 1: How does this chair feel on my body? Sitting with
Speaker 1: that for just again, ten fifteen, twenty seconds, you can
Speaker 1: start to build that up. And once you're automatically, because
Speaker 1: the brain likes to be efficient, the mindfulness is then
Speaker 1: going to start to become your autopilot. Right It's going
Speaker 1: to start to become that habit, which I know it
Speaker 1: sounds a little strange, but that's kind of our goal here.
Speaker 1: We want the mindfulness to be the habit so that
Speaker 1: you're automatically starting to check in with yourself once you
Speaker 1: have that down with the sensory stuff, checking in with
Speaker 1: your thoughts, checking with your emotions, checking in with your
Speaker 1: behaviors even can be something that will help out a lot.
Speaker 1: So as an example, when we find ourselves very stressed,
Speaker 1: we're going to breathe a lot into our chests. And
Speaker 1: this is useful when we're in very stressful situations because
Speaker 1: breathing into our chests activates our fight or flight system.
Speaker 1: Even if you think about working out right, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be short, shallow breathing wonderful.
Speaker 3: We want that.
Speaker 1: We probably don't want that when we're checking emails, when
Speaker 1: we're talking to our body, right, it's probably not going
Speaker 1: to help us out all that much. So what I
Speaker 1: can do instead, where I'm recognizing that I'm breathing shallowly
Speaker 1: into my chest, not judging myself for it, just recognizing
Speaker 1: it with mindfulness, I can then change my breathing patterns,
Speaker 1: which is pulling the air down into my belly. That's
Speaker 1: going to activate my rest and digest system. Bernie Singers
Speaker 1: out there. I'm talking diafromatic breathing. That kind of thing
Speaker 1: is going to help slow us down throughout the day.
Speaker 1: And if I have those autopilot interrupts throughout the day,
Speaker 1: well then by the time I get to Joe mcsleepy,
Speaker 1: my mind might not be racing so much.
Speaker 3: Okay, h Well, one more thing for me, and I
Speaker 3: do know that we have several listeners that are in
Speaker 3: the same boat. One of the things that I do
Speaker 3: from time to time is I may go to different
Speaker 3: events and I speak on stage. I hate it with
Speaker 3: a passion. It terrifies me. My anxiety kicks up to
Speaker 3: a tid.
Speaker 1: So don't sugarcoat it. Tell me how you really feel,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: And they're like, well, you can do this podcast. Yes,
Speaker 3: I'm sitting down in my chair and I'm looking at
Speaker 3: one person, one to two people. It's not standing on
Speaker 3: the stage, you know, looking at fifty two you know,
Speaker 3: a thousand people, so it's different. But what do you
Speaker 3: recommend for people, because I do know a lot of
Speaker 3: people that are getting into the stage moments and trying
Speaker 3: to get more comfortable and doing this. How do you
Speaker 3: help somebody kind of get through that anxiety moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question, and oftentimes it's going to
Speaker 1: the answer is going to need to be a little
Speaker 1: bit more training than just one or two techniques can do,
Speaker 1: because if you're, say, at a ten out of ten,
Speaker 1: in that eight to ten range, it's going to be difficult.
Speaker 1: That being said, I can give you some practical skills
Speaker 1: that may help with the behaviors in the moment, but
Speaker 1: the deeper work that would maybe need to be explored
Speaker 1: in a therapy room for example. So when we're in
Speaker 1: the eight to ten range, the logic part of our
Speaker 1: brain again is turning off. So just like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: we'll just say stop it to someone who's you know,
Speaker 1: in eight to ten, someone who's raging, just calm down,
Speaker 1: calm down, that nothing bad will happen with that. So
Speaker 1: what we need to do instead is we need to
Speaker 1: focus on the physical the body, because when we cool
Speaker 1: the body down, we're going to cool the mind down
Speaker 1: because there's a reciprocal relationship there. So I suspect wherever
Speaker 1: you are speaking, unless you're in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: in some cornfield somewhere, I suspect that there's going to
Speaker 1: be running water that you can set to cold and
Speaker 1: just like if we were to jump into a pool
Speaker 1: of cold water, that's gonna shock us and calm us down,
Speaker 1: well not honestly calm us down, because we're going to
Speaker 1: be in a survival mode. I got here, but we're
Speaker 1: not going to be overthinking in that moment. It's just
Speaker 1: going to be let me get out of this. And
Speaker 1: for my navy veterans in particular, they tend to know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. It's that dive response. We can
Speaker 1: use that principle to our advantage if we find ourselves
Speaker 1: in the eight to ten range, So splashing cold water
Speaker 1: on our face, having a cold compress, putting it on
Speaker 1: our forehead, putting it on the back of our necks.
Speaker 1: If there's a bowl available, you know, putting some cold
Speaker 1: water in that again that freezing. I want you to
Speaker 1: hurt yourself, but just cool enough that it's going to
Speaker 1: cool your body down. If I did that for thirty seconds,
Speaker 1: which at thirty seconds is a lot longer than we think,
Speaker 1: especially if you and I sat here in silence for
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, Yeah, that would be I mean, surefire, you know,
Speaker 1: wonderful podcast.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that would be my most listen to that's right.
Speaker 1: But the same is true with the cold water. It's
Speaker 1: going to cool us down enough that we might be
Speaker 1: able to with some additional skills in the zero to
Speaker 1: seven range by practicing mindfulness, come back online and be okay.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Typically something like that is going to get you from
Speaker 1: an eight to ten down to a seven. Maybe a six.
Speaker 1: It's not going to bring it down to a two.
Speaker 1: That's okay. Six or seven is uncomfortable, but still manageable.
Speaker 1: Another example that you can use in the moment is
Speaker 1: that deep breathing that I mentioned. That's something that can
Speaker 1: help us out. It's cheap as free. We always have
Speaker 1: it with us, and if you're in zero all the
Speaker 1: way up to ten, taking that deep breath into your belly,
Speaker 1: smooth inhale, smooth exhale, it's gonna calm me down just enough. Again,
Speaker 1: imagine taking let's say twenty breaths, which may take a
Speaker 1: minute two minutes, a minute to two minutes of dead
Speaker 1: air that's a long time. A minute to two minutes
Speaker 1: of deep breathing that's also.
Speaker 3: A long time.
Speaker 1: So those things can help in the moment. The underlying
Speaker 1: stuff that I'm talking about, maybe there are thought patterns
Speaker 1: that pop up for people who have trouble with public
Speaker 1: speaking around I'm not good enough. I can't handle this.
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna be calm. Yeah, that's where I would
Speaker 1: explore in a therapy room. Well where's that coming from?
Speaker 1: So talk to me about previous experiences when you are
Speaker 1: doing public speaking. What thoughts come up for you? Can
Speaker 1: we find a pattern? Was there that one person you
Speaker 1: know in grade school who laughed at you when you
Speaker 1: gave a book report in front of the class, And
Speaker 1: for some reason that just still sticks with you and
Speaker 1: Eve internalized it as a part of you that yes,
Speaker 1: I'm just a bad public speaker. Well, by once again
Speaker 1: making these things more conscious, be a mindfulness, we're better
Speaker 1: able to tweak them, to challenge them, and to then
Speaker 1: start to think a little bit more accurately about ourselves.
Speaker 1: I'm never the guy that's like, let's just think more
Speaker 1: positively and everything will be fine. If it was that simple,
Speaker 1: you know, none of us would have problems and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have a job. What I'm saying, it should be great.
Speaker 1: You know, I find something else to do. But what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is we want to think more accurately about
Speaker 1: ourselves instead of I'm just a garbage public speaker. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's you know, I have some good performances, some not
Speaker 1: so good performances. Overall, I'm an average public speaker. That's
Speaker 1: very different from I'm just a piece of trash and
Speaker 1: can't handle being in front of a crowd.
Speaker 3: Wow. Wow, thank you, thank you for that one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I definitely appreciate those words. So tell me a little
Speaker 3: bit about your podcast. I love further, you know, the
Speaker 3: mass space Nation to be able to tune in and
Speaker 3: listen to your show, So just tell us a little
Speaker 3: bit about what it's about.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So it started out, if you can believe it
Speaker 1: or not, in twenty sixteen, end of twenty sixteen, okay,
Speaker 1: because I was invited to give a talk. I wasn't
Speaker 1: a psychologist at the time. I was a master's level
Speaker 1: clinician and I was invited to an agency to give
Speaker 1: a talk on depression. One of the things that they
Speaker 1: asked me to do was to come up with something
Speaker 1: people could take with them, and so I decided, well,
Speaker 1: why not have a brief meditation on depression to just
Speaker 1: kind of help people get through it, and maybe a
Speaker 1: couple weeks before they canceled the event. So here I
Speaker 1: am with this meditation and not really knowing what to
Speaker 1: do with it. But I always liked listening to podcasts,
Speaker 1: so I decided, why not just put this up and
Speaker 1: see what happens. And that's how Meditations by Gregory t
Speaker 1: Obert was born, and for many years I did every
Speaker 1: other week of posting free guided meditations. It could just
Speaker 1: be something to help relax somebody, it could be something
Speaker 1: to work through a deeper issue. For example, I've had
Speaker 1: ones on grief, I've had ones on self love, and
Speaker 1: I posted mostly consistently over the last nine years. But
Speaker 1: ever since I opened my practice, as you mentioned at
Speaker 1: the top, royal Otis Psychotherapy Institute, I decided to start
Speaker 1: filling in the off weeks with additional topics. So that
Speaker 1: initially started as a therapy one oh one series, so
Speaker 1: for people who don't really know much about therapy or
Speaker 1: how certain disorders can show up in people's lives. I
Speaker 1: created a whole series on that, and then I ran
Speaker 1: out of ideas for the series, so I decided what
Speaker 1: better time than to start doing the thing that I
Speaker 1: like listening to, which is interviews. So I've started to
Speaker 1: have people on the show in the off weeks, and
Speaker 1: in fact, i'm not sure when this episode is going up,
Speaker 1: but you and I will have an interview at some point.
Speaker 1: You've generously agreed to come on, and I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to that very much. So it's really a mix of
Speaker 1: these guided meditations and then these discussions from people who
Speaker 1: I think can bring a lot of wisdom and knowledge
Speaker 1: to the table around mental health, around wellness, and sometimes
Speaker 1: even spirituality when people feel comfortable enough to talk about that.
Speaker 1: So it's been good. It's been happening for a long time,
Speaker 1: and I've had people reach out over the years telling
Speaker 1: me how wonderful the meditations have been. In fact, very
Speaker 1: recently I had someone in England even reach out and say,
Speaker 1: I've been listening to you since day one. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, because there was about I said mostly consistently,
Speaker 1: because there was maybe about nine months in grad school
Speaker 1: where I just kind of fell off the face of
Speaker 1: the earth, and he's like, yeah, I've listened through that.
Speaker 1: I listened after. So it was just it's really rewarding
Speaker 1: and heartwarming to know that, you know, my simple meditations
Speaker 1: that started out in you know, a basement have reached
Speaker 1: so many people and have helped them out a lot.
Speaker 3: Wow, tremendous. How can people find you and follow you,
Speaker 3: you know, on social media or their website and be
Speaker 3: able to get more information about you and your practice?
Speaker 1: Absolutely so the best place to go is my practice website,
Speaker 1: Royal Oasis Psychotherapy Institute. But rather than make you type
Speaker 1: all that out, I did Royal oasispi dot com. You
Speaker 1: can learn all about the therapy that I do. I
Speaker 1: do virtual therapy. I'm licensed in forty three states and
Speaker 1: some US territories, so if you're interested in diving deeper
Speaker 1: getting that customized treatment plan, I can help you out.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to work with you. Sorry to the seven
Speaker 1: states that aren't part of sypacked. Eventually they'll get on board,
Speaker 1: I think. On my web site too is my podcast.
Speaker 1: There's also links to my book, links to live streams
Speaker 1: that I do, including a dark Psychology series where I
Speaker 1: talk about the well dark psychology of people, gaming videos
Speaker 1: I do with my wife. So okay, yeah, everything is
Speaker 1: on that website. It's the best touch point as well
Speaker 1: as the best place to get in contact with me
Speaker 1: over email, but you can also find me on LinkedIn, Twitter,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry X and Instagram.
Speaker 3: All right, So gaming videos, I have to ask, so
Speaker 3: what's your go to?
Speaker 1: So I've been gaming for much of my life. For
Speaker 1: the streams, it's been usually something more actiony. So right
Speaker 1: now we are making our way through Resident Evil nine.
Speaker 1: Neither my wife nor I have played it, so the
Speaker 1: zombies are jump scaring us like none other, helping with
Speaker 1: the reaction reels, you know. So if you want to
Speaker 1: see me and my wife lose our minds over zombies,
Speaker 1: definitely check us out on YouTube Rumble.
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome. Now are you a consoleer or a PC gamer?
Speaker 1: I've been a console gamer my whole life, but obviously
Speaker 1: with streaming it's much easier to do on PC. So
Speaker 1: I've switched over to PC master Race, as they say,
Speaker 1: about a year year and a half ago, and I
Speaker 1: haven't haven't looked back. So okay, yes, the channel is
Speaker 1: because I had to make it as punny as possible
Speaker 1: the game obts, so that is our that's our handle,
Speaker 1: all right.
Speaker 3: I won't knock you for PC. I was good. I
Speaker 3: was gonna say, all right, which console are you because
Speaker 3: it was gonna determine whether or not this interview ended
Speaker 3: abruptly or not.
Speaker 1: Xbox, more like ex guest, get out of here.
Speaker 3: So I have one last thing for you, and it's
Speaker 3: something that we love to call the last word at
Speaker 3: now the last word. So bringing this all the way
Speaker 3: back around to men and psychology and getting therapy and help,
Speaker 3: a lot of times there is a stereotype with men
Speaker 3: that seeing somebody seeing a therapist is a sign of weakness.
Speaker 3: What do you say to contradict that stereotype.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's even contradicting. I would just
Speaker 1: say dispelling it because it's I wouldn't even call it
Speaker 1: a stereotype. It's a myth.
Speaker 3: To me.
Speaker 1: What is harder is dealing with problems that you can't
Speaker 1: quite overcome on your own. And I know that men
Speaker 1: are told to be independent, do your thing, and just
Speaker 1: soldier on. But the truth is it takes a lot
Speaker 1: more courage and a lot more strength to reach out
Speaker 1: to someone that you may not know very well and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing well and I could really use the help.
Speaker 1: I hear this a lot, in particular with the veterans
Speaker 1: that I work with and when they come into the
Speaker 1: treatment program which I work on PTSD in a trauma unit.
Speaker 1: There's so much shame and guilt around it, and even
Speaker 1: in outpatient work that I do, there's shame and guilt
Speaker 1: around all I have to see someone. But the truth
Speaker 1: is that it's not it's not a shameful thing to say.
Speaker 1: I just need help. So for those out there that
Speaker 1: are thinking it's a weakness, I would encourage you to
Speaker 1: maybe still to think about why it's a weakness in
Speaker 1: mental health, but maybe in other areas of your life.
Speaker 1: It's actually a strength to reach out to someone to collaborate.
Speaker 3: Love it, love it, and on that. He can't close
Speaker 3: any stronger than that. So I appreciate those words. That
Speaker 3: was a great ending to this episode. Doctor Gregory, Thank
Speaker 3: you so much for spending time with us. This has
Speaker 3: been a tremendous and eye opening episode, very informational field
Speaker 3: episode of the ManSpace podcast. And I appreciate you spending
Speaker 3: the time with us, and much success with the show,
Speaker 3: the gaming channel, and everything else that you're doing ManSpace Nation.
Speaker 3: Make sure you go check out his website, make sure
Speaker 3: you go follow check out the gaming listen to the podcast,
Speaker 3: and let's just continue to push all of this forward.
Speaker 3: And you know, and and if you're in a situation
Speaker 3: and you need help. Here's the man that can help you.
Speaker 3: So check him out, Doctor Gregory. As we close out,
Speaker 3: thank you so much, and man Space Nation, we are
Speaker 3: out of here. No gimmicks, just game that a sur
Speaker 3: in sight.
Speaker 1: They shine like the city on a Friday night. Man talk,
Speaker 1: really talk.
Speaker 3: That's the way that you blessed him acknowledging some lives and.
Speaker 1: The same for nets.
Speaker 2: From light boats to the jokes doadic they get a
Speaker 2: tag team champions Yailer chat with the witch.
Speaker 1: So pull up a chair at the stretchtide. Jest from
Speaker 1: the beat drops you.
Speaker 3: Know the rest.
Speaker 2: You'll go chilling with busting, lest you'll go chilling with Bussing,
Speaker 2: Lest you'll go chillan with Bussing.
Speaker 3: Last hang out because sell you hab
Speaker 2: It wouldn't have been but the bed ex Forever