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Jump Chumpacasino 25 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:58.759 dot com Noprid's necessary boid We're prohibited by on eighteen 26 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.439 plus terms and conditioned plice Let's detail. 27 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:01.920 Luck to. 28 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.439 You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking 29 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.560 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 30 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:25.920 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 31 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.640 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 32 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:34.280 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 33 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:46.319 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 34 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.640 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 35 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.840 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime 36 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:59.200 History and the authors that have written about them. Raynella 37 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:03.480 Dawset said she came home one morning in two thousand 38 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.480 and three and found her husband's body in bed, covered 39 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:10.159 in blood, a cold thirty eight by his side. But 40 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:14.240 authorities were suspicious of Raynella's story. Why would her husband 41 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.280 of ten years suddenly commit suicide and if he had 42 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.479 taken his own life, why did it appear that three 43 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:25.000 shots were fired? David Leith was not the first of 44 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.919 Rainnella's husbands to turn up dead. After digging into Rainella's past, 45 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:32.240 Policed unearthed bizarre gruesome details surrounding the death of her 46 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.680 first husband, who was seemingly trampled by his own cattle, 47 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:39.759 which led investigators to wonder could Raynella have staged his 48 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.520 death as well? To those who knew where Raynella was, 49 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:45.759 a loving mother of two, a good neighbor and friends, 50 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:49.240 a nurse who always reached out a helping hand. Was 51 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.120 this woman capable of killing both her husbands? And if so, 52 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:56.520 why did she do it out of greed, jealousy or revenge. 53 00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:59.719 This is the story about what dark secrets were lurking 54 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:04.280 in her Deadly Web. The book we're profiling this evening 55 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.599 is Her Deadly Web. With my special guest, journalist and author, 56 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.680 Dianne Fanning. Welcome back to the program, Diane Fanning. 57 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:15.479 Thank you, Dan, it's nice to be here. 58 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:18.159 Well, thank you very much for coming back on. It's 59 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:20.319 always a pleasure to have you on. We always have 60 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:24.199 a very very engaging program. And you've come up again 61 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:28.400 and found another crazy, crazy story. So let's get right 62 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:33.439 into it here, and maybe we can start with because 63 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:35.520 there's a couple of things that you do talk about 64 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.599 in this book, and I will we want to talk 65 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:43.199 about those things as well. But first let's probably paint 66 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:49.080 a portrait of Raynella dawsett Lee and what's the proper 67 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.120 pronunciation of the L E A T H. And so 68 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.000 tell us a little bit about Raynella and go back 69 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.719 because that's a big part of the story where Raynella 70 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.319 grew up in the background on that. So take us 71 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:06.919 back to Raynella doss at Leads in her early life. 72 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:12.280 In her background, raynell and Lards was born in the 73 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:18.120 mountains of Tennessee. When she was a schoolgirl, her family 74 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:23.759 moved to this city of oak Ridge, Tennessee. At that 75 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:29.079 time people knew the name Oakridge, but it had a 76 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:33.800 mysterious history. It had been harved out of the wilderness 77 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:39.839 in order for the federal government to build a facility 78 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:45.680 to process uranium. And the uranium that they processed that 79 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.079 that plant was used in the bomb that fell on 80 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:54.000 her Roachama and was one of the two bombs that 81 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:58.480 ultimately brought an end to the war against Japan. It 82 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:02.360 was a very interesting place in a lot of ways 83 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:08.639 because they had they still had air raid drills because 84 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:14.279 the facility there. During the Cold War, it was thought 85 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.480 that they were a target. So it wasn't just air 86 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:22.240 rade drills like people would remember abducting and getting under 87 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.279 the desks, or going in the halls and covering your heads. 88 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:30.319 This was the total evacuation of the town. They would 89 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:33.680 just gather up. If you were at home, a mother 90 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:35.920 at home, so you had three kids, two of them 91 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:38.720 hadn't started school yet, he had one in school. You 92 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.639 would grab the two preschool children and you would follow 93 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.240 a route out of town, and you would not consider 94 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:50.360 going to pick up your own child, because those children 95 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.519 were then being escorted to a stop, one of the 96 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:57.199 stops on the way out of town, and people that 97 00:05:57.319 --> 00:05:59.879 followed that route would stop there and load up the 98 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.120 many kids as they could, And so people were just 99 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.160 going around taking their kids and everybody else's kids and 100 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:08.240 just heading all the way out of town. 101 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.959 Incredible, it's pretty incredible. 102 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:16.079 And when the town was first started, it didn't have 103 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.439 a name, and no one could speak about what they 104 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:24.079 were doing there, the work that was going on. And 105 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.079 so because of that, they had lots and lots of 106 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:33.120 scientists there too, So you had higher than average education 107 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:36.560 and because of that, you had a better than average 108 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:42.120 school system, and the kids there pretty much grew up 109 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.160 with the feeling that they were a special segment of 110 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:51.000 the American population, and I think that that had an 111 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:56.360 impact on shaping who Raynella Large, which was her maiden name, 112 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:04.319 the woman that she became. She went off to school 113 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:07.879 and to be a nurse, and it was there at 114 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:15.000 school that she met her first husband, at Dawsett, and 115 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:18.680 they got married and he went to law school. She 116 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:23.279 finished her nursing degree, and they set up house out 117 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.680 on the old farm where Bill Dawson had been raised, 118 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.600 and he ran for after a couple of years of 119 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:35.480 private practice, he ran for the office of Attorney general, 120 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:38.879 which is the same position as a lot of people 121 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:43.319 call a district attorney, but in Tennessee they're called attorney generals. 122 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:52.079 And they proceeded to have three children. Then Ed got 123 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.759 very ill. He had cancer. He was still district attorney, 124 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:04.040 but he was working from home a lot of the time. 125 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.319 The cancer was expected to be terminal, but he was 126 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.360 going He had lasted for quite a while, and then 127 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:20.680 one day he was found out in the lot connected 128 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:25.519 to the barn, trampled by the cattle. At least that's 129 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:31.120 what Raynella said. Right now, Raynella, because of who she 130 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:36.840 was married to, had become rather involved politically and she 131 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:43.000 was an influential person in her own right and played 132 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:48.600 a major role in actually getting the successor to her 133 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:54.720 husband elected to the position of Attorney General, and she 134 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.639 drew the ire of many Republicans. Her husband edit bit 135 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.600 her Reublican, and she was a Republican, but she used 136 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:08.120 the Republican mailing list to send out letters supporting the 137 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:14.480 Democrat that was running for the seat. But nonetheless she 138 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:19.120 still held sway in the community, and after a little 139 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:21.720 bit of anger over that issue, she got past that, 140 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:27.360 and she still was a somewhat powerful woman. She had 141 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:31.679 a huge farm that was now all hers, but she 142 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:38.080 also had three children. So within six months she ended 143 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.159 up marrying a very close friend of her first husband, 144 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.480 and he was David Leith. He was a barber and 145 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:52.960 he owned his own barbershop and partnership with another man, 146 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:58.159 and they started off their married life together. Now they 147 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:02.039 he gave it A already had one child who was 148 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.759 grown for a previous marriage, and had two grandchildren, and 149 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.919 Raynella then had three children. 150 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:11.919 But she. 151 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:21.240 Had another loss in her life when her daughter, who 152 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:25.320 had a learners permit, was driving the pickup truck and 153 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:31.399 went through a red light at an intersection and her 154 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.320 little eleven year old brother Eddie was in the car 155 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:40.799 and he was thrown from it and seriously injured, and 156 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:45.200 he died a couple of days later. So Raynella lost 157 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:54.159 her son. Right soon after that, she found out because 158 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:01.720 her husband's her first husband's secretary, was getting divorced from 159 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:08.480 her husband, Steve Walker, and she found out that during 160 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:13.679 the custody hearing, Kay, the wife had said the wife 161 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:21.639 and secretary of her husband said that she did her husband. 162 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:23.519 I really got that all confused. Okay. 163 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:27.639 So there's Raynella and her husband Ed. There's Kay and 164 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:32.799 her husband Steve. Kay worked for Ed as a secretary 165 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:37.799 for years and years, started with private practice. After he 166 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:42.399 was dead, she filed for KA filed for divorce from Steve. 167 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:48.600 During the custody hearing, Kay said that Steve shouldn't have 168 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:51.120 custody of one of the boys because it was not 169 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:55.000 his biological child. It was the biological child of Ed. 170 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:56.919 Does it, oh, jee? 171 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:01.600 So when Raynella does it? Nowella does at least heard 172 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.799 about that. You would think her anger would either be 173 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.879 directed at her deceased husband or at her deceased hustant secretary, 174 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:15.879 but no, Instead she lures Steve Walker, the other wronged 175 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.159 person in this adulterous affair. She lures him out to 176 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.399 the barn under the pretext of showing him some paperwork 177 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:29.360 and instead pulls a gun on him and chases him 178 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:35.720 all over the farmyard and across a fence and is 179 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:40.919 firing wildly at him. She's fired five times. When Steve 180 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:45.519 went up over a fence and twisted his ankle and 181 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.720 fell to the ground, she stood over top of him, 182 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:54.879 pointing that gun at him, and she said, well, Steve, 183 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.440 I used to be a much better shot busher. Can't 184 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:02.759 miss from here, And she pulled the true important thing 185 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.080 for Steve. She forgot she had the five shot gotten up, 186 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:15.879 the sixth shot gotten Yeah. So Steve survived and David 187 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:22.159 survived for a few years, but only Raynella and Dave's 188 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.399 doctor seemed to think that Dave was developing some sort 189 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:31.039 of dementia. Everybody else thought he was just fine. And 190 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:36.120 so it was a really confusing situation because Raynella kept 191 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:38.639 saying things about how he wasn't right and she was 192 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:45.240 taking the doctor, and then one day she left him 193 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:49.879 at home and when she claimed when she returned she 194 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.840 found him dead. In the bed and he had committed suicide. 195 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:58.120 And when you talk about dementia, he's not very old. 196 00:13:58.200 --> 00:13:59.159 What's he fifty seven? 197 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:05.240 Yeah, he's getting close sixty. He's not very old. And 198 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:10.240 you know, I mean there is early onset Alzheimer's. They 199 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:15.600 can happen to be from their forties, but you know, 200 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.679 he still was a little young to be showing for 201 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:24.360 typically to be showing signs of dementia. But that that 202 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.919 piece of the puzzle ended up being answered later on 203 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.440 when they when the investigators came. 204 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.480 To the scene and. 205 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.519 Were instantly suspicious because three shots have been fired. 206 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.159 They wanted, sorry, sorry, to take us back down the 207 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.840 phone call, though we jumped over that, and I apologize 208 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.320 for that. Take us back to the entire event in 209 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.720 terms of she calls police and what's her demeanor like 210 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:53.799 when she first calls police, and what is her actions 211 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:57.120 when I thought it was fascinating. When police come, they 212 00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.399 they think there's another victim because there's somebody on the 213 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.000 front lawn. So tell us about the whole turn of 214 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:04.000 events and the phone call and then. 215 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.279 How she outsh she calls and she was shrieking and 216 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:12.480 choking on her words, asking them to help her and 217 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.600 the first thing she says when ask what's going on 218 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:21.159 is that my husband shot himself, and she gives her 219 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.759 a dress and tells him to hurry, and you know 220 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:25.080 he's in. 221 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.360 Hello, it is Ryan. And I was on a flight 222 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.559 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 223 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:32.279 slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over the 224 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.159 person sitting next to me, and you know what they 225 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:37.039 were doing. They were also playing Chumpa Casino. Coincidence, I 226 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:39.720 think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino's 227 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:41.720 home to the hundreds at casino style games. You can 228 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.600 play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 229 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.000 So sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com to 230 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.240 claim you're free Welcome bonus. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com 231 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:54.279 and live the Chumba Laine for necessary Davod wherever I 232 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:55.519 lost in terms of conditions eighteen. 233 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.159 Plus in the bed and she said, I'm I'm gonna 234 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:01.879 throw up, and uh, they heard her make it all 235 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:05.320 sorts of noise and gagging and everything, and they tried 236 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:09.960 to get her to calm down, and they sent they 237 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:13.440 sent someone in. She left the phone off the hook 238 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:19.519 and ran outside. So she threw herself prostrate on the grass, 239 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:26.639 and she was looking, for all intents and purposes, if 240 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.000 she's dead. And so when the police arrived, they thought 241 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:35.559 someone had shot her too, and so they went to 242 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.360 her first. They went to her aid first, but then 243 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:40.000 she said no, no, no, you're going to help him. 244 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.240 Help him. He's been shot. And when they went in 245 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:52.919 and they found Dave's body, by that time, she was 246 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:57.840 starting to look fairly composed and and uh, you know, 247 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:03.919 she she didn't act all that upset. She sort of 248 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.920 took charge of the situation. And she explained that he 249 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.000 found out that his mother had cancer just the other 250 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.400 day and and that's why he committed suicide. 251 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.920 Now, the other I want to talk about this because 252 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:26.400 it's very important how easily they determine what suicide and 253 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:32.759 what they believe is homicide in this case, but they 254 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:35.960 look at what they know that they got a call 255 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:38.559 at this time, which was around eleven thirty or a 256 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.839 little bit past eleven thirty in the morning, right right 257 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:46.559 right now. The thing is is that they talk about lividity, 258 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:48.599 So maybe you could talk about what that is for 259 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.640 you know, most people do know they're junkies like me 260 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.640 to watch investigation Discovery and read. 261 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:54.079 All the books. 262 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.240 So, but for those that don't, what's what's lividity and 263 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.680 why is it important to this case? And what and 264 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.519 when I talk about lividity, how is that important to 265 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.440 this case? And then finding the body. 266 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.759 Well, lividity is a discoloring of the skin that is 267 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:19.400 caused where the blood in the body settles down when 268 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.079 when after they're dead, because you no longer have your 269 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.240 heart pumping the blood, so your little capital areas that 270 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.960 are all full of blood just sort of seep and 271 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.319 go down to the lowest point because of gravity. So 272 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.880 you look at when people arrive on the scene to 273 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:41.359 investigate a crime, they look at that discoloration and and 274 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.720 they also will do things like pressing on the surface 275 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:50.240 of the skin to see how how well it bounces 276 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:56.720 back or whether it goes white, or you know, how 277 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.000 how it's affected by touch, And they can tell by 278 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:06.640 the reaction of the skin and the signs of vividity. 279 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.480 An approximate amount of time since death had passed and 280 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:16.720 Raynella's story to the police would have had him dead 281 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:24.400 not that very long, and it had to have been 282 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:29.519 probably they determined just by examining the body briefly that 283 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.759 it was probably five out more than five hours earlier. 284 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:39.880 So her story was suddenly not fitting together because of 285 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:45.160 she had claimed to have left the house about three 286 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.240 hours earlier. And you know, so if it had if 287 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:51.720 he had died five hours earlier, she couldn't have been 288 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.359 in the house, and I mean she would have had 289 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.880 to been in the house when it happened. So you know, 290 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:03.079 that was a good indicator to them that there was 291 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.720 something wrong here. And the other thing that on the 292 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.160 scene that caught the investigator's eye was that it appeared 293 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:16.640 as if he'd been tucked in to bed. I mean, 294 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.400 he had a pillow nicely between his head and his shoulder, 295 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:28.839 he had a pillow between his legs, and the lower 296 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.720 half of his body was very very neatly covered up. 297 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.160 And next to him was a plate of food. He 298 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.079 had some oatmeal on it and some taste and stuff. 299 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.839 And there was no blood spatter on top of that food, 300 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:51.200 which made no sense if she had served him that 301 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.680 food and it had been sitting there that whole time, 302 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.799 and there was no evidence that he had taken a 303 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:01.920 sip of the water, no marks on it, no change 304 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:03.720 in the level of the milk. 305 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:04.920 And. 306 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.039 It just looked real suspicious in. 307 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.960 A lot of ways. 308 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:14.599 And then when they saw the three shots, one through 309 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.640 the headboard, one through his head, and one into the bed, 310 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:24.200 it didn't automatically say that it was not a suicide, 311 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:29.559 but it raised the question very seriously. It happened that 312 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:34.759 somebody might be planning on committing suicide and that if 313 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.079 every last second they turned the gun away and then 314 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:39.960 like we go through like that first shot went through 315 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.480 the headboard, and then they come back and kill themselves. 316 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.960 But the third one into the mattress was just bizarre. 317 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:53.079 That didn't make a lot of sense. But they didn't 318 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.240 know immediately what order was in. They didn't know that 319 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.319 until they were examining evidence later. 320 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.759 They also had the benefit of looking at it later 321 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.799 at what's called guns. I found this very interested in 322 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:14.640 your book too, the gunshot stipple or yeah, gunpowder stipple. 323 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:21.119 So I guess they know there's the effect with the 324 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.960 gunshot residue as well, So they did if you can 325 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.799 explain that that But I found that fascinating the book, 326 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.119 that that was another way they said it's a circumstantial 327 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.880 case because they didn't have any eyewitness or a lot 328 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:38.079 of things that they would have in other cases. But 329 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:43.960 they had this type of evidence, this gunshot fippling anyway, 330 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.039 that I hadn't heard of before. So it was interesting 331 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:48.000 to find that in your book. 332 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.319 So, yeah, and what that is is, it's when the 333 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:58.200 gun fires, it sends out hot gases along with the 334 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:05.440 bullet and and and that has you know, the dirt 335 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:10.559 and stuff for the gun barrel firing, and it flies 336 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:17.759 into the skin. And it depending on and how close 337 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.559 the the the end of the gun is to the head, 338 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:29.200 uh is, it changes the patterns so you could actually 339 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.039 tell the distance of the gun from a person's head 340 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:35.440 when it was fired into them. 341 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:40.200 Right, And the result of the autopsy was as well 342 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.559 that their conclusion. 343 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:42.680 Was what. 344 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:50.559 They had. They they said that the gun, I mean, 345 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:57.640 the gun was held at a place that, although not impossible, 346 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.880 it would have been very awkward for him to have 347 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.440 shot himself there. And the other thing they discovered was 348 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.359 that the shot that went into his head killed him 349 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:19.480 instantaneously because it severed his brave stands right, so he 350 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.680 could not you know, you hear sometimes they say that 351 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:28.839 the person will just involuntarily jerk and cause another gunshot 352 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.440 to fire, but in this case that could. 353 00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:38.400 Not have happened. Right now, she is she arrives in 354 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.480 this on this crime scene with her daughter, Katie, I believe, 355 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:51.200 and they are both questioned by different detectives. What's again. 356 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.640 When she's officially questioned, she does say some you know 357 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.319 about the melting butter. She's they talked to well, what 358 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.240 would happen that day? And maybe the quote is that 359 00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:08.799 I bring in his breakfast like many times breakfast in bed, 360 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:11.039 but I bring it. He complains that I bring in 361 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:16.640 the breakfast too hot to melt the butter, and yes, 362 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:22.319 which is a very odd thing to say. Yeah, yeah, 363 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.680 So tell us about his early questioning and what the 364 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.000 police really conclude from that. 365 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.880 They have They they thought it was an odd statement 366 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.720 and and initially something like that if if someone were 367 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:41.480 in shock or in you know, extreme immediate grief, maybe 368 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.680 they would stumble up their words. But it was something 369 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.559 that really stuck with the investigators and later they would, 370 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.200 you know, it would come back and sort of haunt 371 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:58.240 them as as something that wasn't quite right. And they 372 00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:02.440 were very uncommon too. The way she was behaving. She 373 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:06.799 wasn't acting all that distress despite the fact she said 374 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:13.880 something that was basically nonsensical, right, But you know they 375 00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:19.720 in cases like this, investigators really have to step very 376 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:27.599 carefully because although often the spouse is the person who's 377 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.960 responsible for a murder in the home, there are still 378 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.359 a lot of people who lose spouses to murder and 379 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:38.880 they had not a thing in the world to do 380 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:43.200 with it and are truly victims. So you don't want 381 00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:49.000 to stomp all over them like you would in an 382 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.039 ordinary suspect in the beginning. 383 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:58.599 Now, the other thing that's again, it's just fascinating when 384 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:00.720 you look at this story, you say, oh, here, I 385 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.119 think I get the idea, But there are many, many 386 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.279 mysterious twists and turns, and I love how you reveal 387 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.599 things at different times, so you keep us wow, geez, 388 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:12.079 really scratching my head. And then I go, I see why. 389 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:17.440 But we're going to not panalyze the audience like that, 390 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:21.559 and we're going to tell them now, Raynella is because 391 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:27.920 of this district attorney with the sixth judicial, this attorney 392 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:33.240 general she was married to before. Now when she's questioned now, 393 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.160 and the other thing I felt found fascinating too as well. 394 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:39.240 I just wanted to mention is that you said that 395 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:46.559 her first husband and her new and David were friends. Yeah, correct, 396 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.759 right now, they were friends, so the death of ed 397 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:55.079 Dawset didn't raise any alarms whatsoever. And then you also 398 00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:59.640 mentioned about Raynella having this power. Her husband was powerful 399 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:04.200 since he dies, no one questions that. But also she 400 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:09.200 attains a lot of that same power from that. So 401 00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:13.359