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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking
Speaker 5: Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 6: Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 6: program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime
Speaker 6: History and the authors that have written about them. Raynella
Speaker 6: Dawset said she came home one morning in two thousand
Speaker 6: and three and found her husband's body in bed, covered
Speaker 6: in blood, a cold thirty eight by his side. But
Speaker 6: authorities were suspicious of Raynella's story. Why would her husband
Speaker 6: of ten years suddenly commit suicide and if he had
Speaker 6: taken his own life, why did it appear that three
Speaker 6: shots were fired? David Leith was not the first of
Speaker 6: Rainnella's husbands to turn up dead. After digging into Rainella's past,
Speaker 6: Policed unearthed bizarre gruesome details surrounding the death of her
Speaker 6: first husband, who was seemingly trampled by his own cattle,
Speaker 6: which led investigators to wonder could Raynella have staged his
Speaker 6: death as well? To those who knew where Raynella was,
Speaker 6: a loving mother of two, a good neighbor and friends,
Speaker 6: a nurse who always reached out a helping hand. Was
Speaker 6: this woman capable of killing both her husbands? And if so,
Speaker 6: why did she do it out of greed, jealousy or revenge.
Speaker 6: This is the story about what dark secrets were lurking
Speaker 6: in her Deadly Web. The book we're profiling this evening
Speaker 6: is Her Deadly Web. With my special guest, journalist and author,
Speaker 6: Dianne Fanning. Welcome back to the program, Diane Fanning.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Dan, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you very much for coming back on. It's
Speaker 6: always a pleasure to have you on. We always have
Speaker 6: a very very engaging program. And you've come up again
Speaker 6: and found another crazy, crazy story. So let's get right
Speaker 6: into it here, and maybe we can start with because
Speaker 6: there's a couple of things that you do talk about
Speaker 6: in this book, and I will we want to talk
Speaker 6: about those things as well. But first let's probably paint
Speaker 6: a portrait of Raynella dawsett Lee and what's the proper
Speaker 6: pronunciation of the L E A T H. And so
Speaker 6: tell us a little bit about Raynella and go back
Speaker 6: because that's a big part of the story where Raynella
Speaker 6: grew up in the background on that. So take us
Speaker 6: back to Raynella doss at Leads in her early life.
Speaker 4: In her background, raynell and Lards was born in the
Speaker 4: mountains of Tennessee. When she was a schoolgirl, her family
Speaker 4: moved to this city of oak Ridge, Tennessee. At that
Speaker 4: time people knew the name Oakridge, but it had a
Speaker 4: mysterious history. It had been harved out of the wilderness
Speaker 4: in order for the federal government to build a facility
Speaker 4: to process uranium. And the uranium that they processed that
Speaker 4: that plant was used in the bomb that fell on
Speaker 4: her Roachama and was one of the two bombs that
Speaker 4: ultimately brought an end to the war against Japan. It
Speaker 4: was a very interesting place in a lot of ways
Speaker 4: because they had they still had air raid drills because
Speaker 4: the facility there. During the Cold War, it was thought
Speaker 4: that they were a target. So it wasn't just air
Speaker 4: rade drills like people would remember abducting and getting under
Speaker 4: the desks, or going in the halls and covering your heads.
Speaker 4: This was the total evacuation of the town. They would
Speaker 4: just gather up. If you were at home, a mother
Speaker 4: at home, so you had three kids, two of them
Speaker 4: hadn't started school yet, he had one in school. You
Speaker 4: would grab the two preschool children and you would follow
Speaker 4: a route out of town, and you would not consider
Speaker 4: going to pick up your own child, because those children
Speaker 4: were then being escorted to a stop, one of the
Speaker 4: stops on the way out of town, and people that
Speaker 4: followed that route would stop there and load up the
Speaker 4: many kids as they could, And so people were just
Speaker 4: going around taking their kids and everybody else's kids and
Speaker 4: just heading all the way out of town.
Speaker 6: Incredible, it's pretty incredible.
Speaker 4: And when the town was first started, it didn't have
Speaker 4: a name, and no one could speak about what they
Speaker 4: were doing there, the work that was going on. And
Speaker 4: so because of that, they had lots and lots of
Speaker 4: scientists there too, So you had higher than average education
Speaker 4: and because of that, you had a better than average
Speaker 4: school system, and the kids there pretty much grew up
Speaker 4: with the feeling that they were a special segment of
Speaker 4: the American population, and I think that that had an
Speaker 4: impact on shaping who Raynella Large, which was her maiden name,
Speaker 4: the woman that she became. She went off to school
Speaker 4: and to be a nurse, and it was there at
Speaker 4: school that she met her first husband, at Dawsett, and
Speaker 4: they got married and he went to law school. She
Speaker 4: finished her nursing degree, and they set up house out
Speaker 4: on the old farm where Bill Dawson had been raised,
Speaker 4: and he ran for after a couple of years of
Speaker 4: private practice, he ran for the office of Attorney general,
Speaker 4: which is the same position as a lot of people
Speaker 4: call a district attorney, but in Tennessee they're called attorney generals.
Speaker 4: And they proceeded to have three children. Then Ed got
Speaker 4: very ill. He had cancer. He was still district attorney,
Speaker 4: but he was working from home a lot of the time.
Speaker 4: The cancer was expected to be terminal, but he was
Speaker 4: going He had lasted for quite a while, and then
Speaker 4: one day he was found out in the lot connected
Speaker 4: to the barn, trampled by the cattle. At least that's
Speaker 4: what Raynella said. Right now, Raynella, because of who she
Speaker 4: was married to, had become rather involved politically and she
Speaker 4: was an influential person in her own right and played
Speaker 4: a major role in actually getting the successor to her
Speaker 4: husband elected to the position of Attorney General, and she
Speaker 4: drew the ire of many Republicans. Her husband edit bit
Speaker 4: her Reublican, and she was a Republican, but she used
Speaker 4: the Republican mailing list to send out letters supporting the
Speaker 4: Democrat that was running for the seat. But nonetheless she
Speaker 4: still held sway in the community, and after a little
Speaker 4: bit of anger over that issue, she got past that,
Speaker 4: and she still was a somewhat powerful woman. She had
Speaker 4: a huge farm that was now all hers, but she
Speaker 4: also had three children. So within six months she ended
Speaker 4: up marrying a very close friend of her first husband,
Speaker 4: and he was David Leith. He was a barber and
Speaker 4: he owned his own barbershop and partnership with another man,
Speaker 4: and they started off their married life together. Now they
Speaker 4: he gave it A already had one child who was
Speaker 4: grown for a previous marriage, and had two grandchildren, and
Speaker 4: Raynella then had three children.
Speaker 3: But she.
Speaker 4: Had another loss in her life when her daughter, who
Speaker 4: had a learners permit, was driving the pickup truck and
Speaker 4: went through a red light at an intersection and her
Speaker 4: little eleven year old brother Eddie was in the car
Speaker 4: and he was thrown from it and seriously injured, and
Speaker 4: he died a couple of days later. So Raynella lost
Speaker 4: her son. Right soon after that, she found out because
Speaker 4: her husband's her first husband's secretary, was getting divorced from
Speaker 4: her husband, Steve Walker, and she found out that during
Speaker 4: the custody hearing, Kay, the wife had said the wife
Speaker 4: and secretary of her husband said that she did her husband.
Speaker 6: I really got that all confused. Okay.
Speaker 4: So there's Raynella and her husband Ed. There's Kay and
Speaker 4: her husband Steve. Kay worked for Ed as a secretary
Speaker 4: for years and years, started with private practice. After he
Speaker 4: was dead, she filed for KA filed for divorce from Steve.
Speaker 4: During the custody hearing, Kay said that Steve shouldn't have
Speaker 4: custody of one of the boys because it was not
Speaker 4: his biological child. It was the biological child of Ed.
Speaker 6: Does it, oh, jee?
Speaker 4: So when Raynella does it? Nowella does at least heard
Speaker 4: about that. You would think her anger would either be
Speaker 4: directed at her deceased husband or at her deceased hustant secretary,
Speaker 4: but no, Instead she lures Steve Walker, the other wronged
Speaker 4: person in this adulterous affair. She lures him out to
Speaker 4: the barn under the pretext of showing him some paperwork
Speaker 4: and instead pulls a gun on him and chases him
Speaker 4: all over the farmyard and across a fence and is
Speaker 4: firing wildly at him. She's fired five times. When Steve
Speaker 4: went up over a fence and twisted his ankle and
Speaker 4: fell to the ground, she stood over top of him,
Speaker 4: pointing that gun at him, and she said, well, Steve,
Speaker 4: I used to be a much better shot busher. Can't
Speaker 4: miss from here, And she pulled the true important thing
Speaker 4: for Steve. She forgot she had the five shot gotten up,
Speaker 4: the sixth shot gotten Yeah. So Steve survived and David
Speaker 4: survived for a few years, but only Raynella and Dave's
Speaker 4: doctor seemed to think that Dave was developing some sort
Speaker 4: of dementia. Everybody else thought he was just fine. And
Speaker 4: so it was a really confusing situation because Raynella kept
Speaker 4: saying things about how he wasn't right and she was
Speaker 4: taking the doctor, and then one day she left him
Speaker 4: at home and when she claimed when she returned she
Speaker 4: found him dead. In the bed and he had committed suicide.
Speaker 6: And when you talk about dementia, he's not very old.
Speaker 6: What's he fifty seven?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's getting close sixty. He's not very old. And
Speaker 4: you know, I mean there is early onset Alzheimer's. They
Speaker 4: can happen to be from their forties, but you know,
Speaker 4: he still was a little young to be showing for
Speaker 4: typically to be showing signs of dementia. But that that
Speaker 4: piece of the puzzle ended up being answered later on
Speaker 4: when they when the investigators came.
Speaker 6: To the scene and.
Speaker 4: Were instantly suspicious because three shots have been fired.
Speaker 6: They wanted, sorry, sorry, to take us back down the
Speaker 6: phone call, though we jumped over that, and I apologize
Speaker 6: for that. Take us back to the entire event in
Speaker 6: terms of she calls police and what's her demeanor like
Speaker 6: when she first calls police, and what is her actions
Speaker 6: when I thought it was fascinating. When police come, they
Speaker 6: they think there's another victim because there's somebody on the
Speaker 6: front lawn. So tell us about the whole turn of
Speaker 6: events and the phone call and then.
Speaker 4: How she outsh she calls and she was shrieking and
Speaker 4: choking on her words, asking them to help her and
Speaker 4: the first thing she says when ask what's going on
Speaker 4: is that my husband shot himself, and she gives her
Speaker 4: a dress and tells him to hurry, and you know
Speaker 4: he's in.
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Speaker 4: Plus in the bed and she said, I'm I'm gonna
Speaker 4: throw up, and uh, they heard her make it all
Speaker 4: sorts of noise and gagging and everything, and they tried
Speaker 4: to get her to calm down, and they sent they
Speaker 4: sent someone in. She left the phone off the hook
Speaker 4: and ran outside. So she threw herself prostrate on the grass,
Speaker 4: and she was looking, for all intents and purposes, if
Speaker 4: she's dead. And so when the police arrived, they thought
Speaker 4: someone had shot her too, and so they went to
Speaker 4: her first. They went to her aid first, but then
Speaker 4: she said no, no, no, you're going to help him.
Speaker 4: Help him. He's been shot. And when they went in
Speaker 4: and they found Dave's body, by that time, she was
Speaker 4: starting to look fairly composed and and uh, you know,
Speaker 4: she she didn't act all that upset. She sort of
Speaker 4: took charge of the situation. And she explained that he
Speaker 4: found out that his mother had cancer just the other
Speaker 4: day and and that's why he committed suicide.
Speaker 6: Now, the other I want to talk about this because
Speaker 6: it's very important how easily they determine what suicide and
Speaker 6: what they believe is homicide in this case, but they
Speaker 6: look at what they know that they got a call
Speaker 6: at this time, which was around eleven thirty or a
Speaker 6: little bit past eleven thirty in the morning, right right
Speaker 6: right now. The thing is is that they talk about lividity,
Speaker 6: So maybe you could talk about what that is for
Speaker 6: you know, most people do know they're junkies like me
Speaker 6: to watch investigation Discovery and read.
Speaker 5: All the books.
Speaker 6: So, but for those that don't, what's what's lividity and
Speaker 6: why is it important to this case? And what and
Speaker 6: when I talk about lividity, how is that important to
Speaker 6: this case? And then finding the body.
Speaker 4: Well, lividity is a discoloring of the skin that is
Speaker 4: caused where the blood in the body settles down when
Speaker 4: when after they're dead, because you no longer have your
Speaker 4: heart pumping the blood, so your little capital areas that
Speaker 4: are all full of blood just sort of seep and
Speaker 4: go down to the lowest point because of gravity. So
Speaker 4: you look at when people arrive on the scene to
Speaker 4: investigate a crime, they look at that discoloration and and
Speaker 4: they also will do things like pressing on the surface
Speaker 4: of the skin to see how how well it bounces
Speaker 4: back or whether it goes white, or you know, how
Speaker 4: how it's affected by touch, And they can tell by
Speaker 4: the reaction of the skin and the signs of vividity.
Speaker 4: An approximate amount of time since death had passed and
Speaker 4: Raynella's story to the police would have had him dead
Speaker 4: not that very long, and it had to have been
Speaker 4: probably they determined just by examining the body briefly that
Speaker 4: it was probably five out more than five hours earlier.
Speaker 4: So her story was suddenly not fitting together because of
Speaker 4: she had claimed to have left the house about three
Speaker 4: hours earlier. And you know, so if it had if
Speaker 4: he had died five hours earlier, she couldn't have been
Speaker 4: in the house, and I mean she would have had
Speaker 4: to been in the house when it happened. So you know,
Speaker 4: that was a good indicator to them that there was
Speaker 4: something wrong here. And the other thing that on the
Speaker 4: scene that caught the investigator's eye was that it appeared
Speaker 4: as if he'd been tucked in to bed. I mean,
Speaker 4: he had a pillow nicely between his head and his shoulder,
Speaker 4: he had a pillow between his legs, and the lower
Speaker 4: half of his body was very very neatly covered up.
Speaker 4: And next to him was a plate of food. He
Speaker 4: had some oatmeal on it and some taste and stuff.
Speaker 4: And there was no blood spatter on top of that food,
Speaker 4: which made no sense if she had served him that
Speaker 4: food and it had been sitting there that whole time,
Speaker 4: and there was no evidence that he had taken a
Speaker 4: sip of the water, no marks on it, no change
Speaker 4: in the level of the milk.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 4: It just looked real suspicious in.
Speaker 6: A lot of ways.
Speaker 4: And then when they saw the three shots, one through
Speaker 4: the headboard, one through his head, and one into the bed,
Speaker 4: it didn't automatically say that it was not a suicide,
Speaker 4: but it raised the question very seriously. It happened that
Speaker 4: somebody might be planning on committing suicide and that if
Speaker 4: every last second they turned the gun away and then
Speaker 4: like we go through like that first shot went through
Speaker 4: the headboard, and then they come back and kill themselves.
Speaker 4: But the third one into the mattress was just bizarre.
Speaker 4: That didn't make a lot of sense. But they didn't
Speaker 4: know immediately what order was in. They didn't know that
Speaker 4: until they were examining evidence later.
Speaker 6: They also had the benefit of looking at it later
Speaker 6: at what's called guns. I found this very interested in
Speaker 6: your book too, the gunshot stipple or yeah, gunpowder stipple.
Speaker 6: So I guess they know there's the effect with the
Speaker 6: gunshot residue as well, So they did if you can
Speaker 6: explain that that But I found that fascinating the book,
Speaker 6: that that was another way they said it's a circumstantial
Speaker 6: case because they didn't have any eyewitness or a lot
Speaker 6: of things that they would have in other cases. But
Speaker 6: they had this type of evidence, this gunshot fippling anyway,
Speaker 6: that I hadn't heard of before. So it was interesting
Speaker 6: to find that in your book.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, and what that is is, it's when the
Speaker 4: gun fires, it sends out hot gases along with the
Speaker 4: bullet and and and that has you know, the dirt
Speaker 4: and stuff for the gun barrel firing, and it flies
Speaker 4: into the skin. And it depending on and how close
Speaker 4: the the the end of the gun is to the head,
Speaker 4: uh is, it changes the patterns so you could actually
Speaker 4: tell the distance of the gun from a person's head
Speaker 4: when it was fired into them.
Speaker 6: Right, And the result of the autopsy was as well
Speaker 6: that their conclusion.
Speaker 5: Was what.
Speaker 4: They had. They they said that the gun, I mean,
Speaker 4: the gun was held at a place that, although not impossible,
Speaker 4: it would have been very awkward for him to have
Speaker 4: shot himself there. And the other thing they discovered was
Speaker 4: that the shot that went into his head killed him
Speaker 4: instantaneously because it severed his brave stands right, so he
Speaker 4: could not you know, you hear sometimes they say that
Speaker 4: the person will just involuntarily jerk and cause another gunshot
Speaker 4: to fire, but in this case that could.
Speaker 6: Not have happened. Right now, she is she arrives in
Speaker 6: this on this crime scene with her daughter, Katie, I believe,
Speaker 6: and they are both questioned by different detectives. What's again.
Speaker 6: When she's officially questioned, she does say some you know
Speaker 6: about the melting butter. She's they talked to well, what
Speaker 6: would happen that day? And maybe the quote is that
Speaker 6: I bring in his breakfast like many times breakfast in bed,
Speaker 6: but I bring it. He complains that I bring in
Speaker 6: the breakfast too hot to melt the butter, and yes,
Speaker 6: which is a very odd thing to say. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: So tell us about his early questioning and what the
Speaker 6: police really conclude from that.
Speaker 4: They have They they thought it was an odd statement
Speaker 4: and and initially something like that if if someone were
Speaker 4: in shock or in you know, extreme immediate grief, maybe
Speaker 4: they would stumble up their words. But it was something
Speaker 4: that really stuck with the investigators and later they would,
Speaker 4: you know, it would come back and sort of haunt
Speaker 4: them as as something that wasn't quite right. And they
Speaker 4: were very uncommon too. The way she was behaving. She
Speaker 4: wasn't acting all that distress despite the fact she said
Speaker 4: something that was basically nonsensical, right, But you know they
Speaker 4: in cases like this, investigators really have to step very
Speaker 4: carefully because although often the spouse is the person who's
Speaker 4: responsible for a murder in the home, there are still
Speaker 4: a lot of people who lose spouses to murder and
Speaker 4: they had not a thing in the world to do
Speaker 4: with it and are truly victims. So you don't want
Speaker 4: to stomp all over them like you would in an
Speaker 4: ordinary suspect in the beginning.
Speaker 6: Now, the other thing that's again, it's just fascinating when
Speaker 6: you look at this story, you say, oh, here, I
Speaker 6: think I get the idea, But there are many, many
Speaker 6: mysterious twists and turns, and I love how you reveal
Speaker 6: things at different times, so you keep us wow, geez,
Speaker 6: really scratching my head. And then I go, I see why.
Speaker 6: But we're going to not panalyze the audience like that,
Speaker 6: and we're going to tell them now, Raynella is because
Speaker 6: of this district attorney with the sixth judicial, this attorney
Speaker 6: general she was married to before. Now when she's questioned now,
Speaker 6: and the other thing I felt found fascinating too as well.
Speaker 6: I just wanted to mention is that you said that
Speaker 6: her first husband and her new and David were friends. Yeah, correct,
Speaker 6: right now, they were friends, so the death of ed
Speaker 6: Dawset didn't raise any alarms whatsoever. And then you also
Speaker 6: mentioned about Raynella having this power. Her husband was powerful
Speaker 6: since he dies, no one questions that. But also she
Speaker 6: attains a lot of that same power from that. So
Speaker 6: the thing that we're not really describing is and has
Speaker 6: to be certain, is that this is an imposing figure.
Speaker 6: Like you say, she's five foot eight, she's like one
Speaker 6: hundred and seventy pounds. But she's a very charismatic, you know,
Speaker 6: strong woman. I found it interesting that nobody thinks anything
Speaker 6: but the highest regard for her now when she is
Speaker 6: being question even though it looks like she's the likely person.
Speaker 6: This Moyer's this guide that you bring to life in here,
Speaker 6: that's very important. Inspect and lead investigator Moyers. What he
Speaker 6: does is that he is kind of concerned because Raynella
Speaker 6: has some powerful supporters. Despite what it looks like here
Speaker 6: to you and I and the reader, tell us about
Speaker 6: some of these people that appear in support of Raynella.
Speaker 4: All of a sudden, well, you know, in her front
Speaker 4: yard while they're doing this investigation inside the home. So
Speaker 4: who of Knoxville legal and political world were gathering in
Speaker 4: that yard. There were judges, public defenders, Republican party leaders.
Speaker 4: They were all there in support of Raynella. And you know,
Speaker 4: Wawyers knew this. He knew that the powerful people of
Speaker 4: Knoxville would have their eyes on him, and he knew
Speaker 4: he had to tread carefully. I mean, it was very
Speaker 4: important to him to find justice for this man, but
Speaker 4: he had to do it with great care so as
Speaker 4: not to step on the wrong toes before he had
Speaker 4: gotten a proof together.
Speaker 6: Now what happens as well another little monkey wrench into this,
Speaker 6: or at least another little again twist, very very unusual twist,
Speaker 6: is that the prosecutors in this, the local prosecutors, say,
Speaker 6: we can't do this because there's a conflict of interest,
Speaker 6: and so what's the what's the solution with this? This
Speaker 6: is again very I'm not very typical. So what's the
Speaker 6: solution to.
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Speaker 6: Plus retails these people saying we can't prosecute this case.
Speaker 4: Well, it is then turned over to a attorney general's
Speaker 4: office a couple of counties away so that they can
Speaker 4: handle the prosecution. But you know, when when you run
Speaker 4: for office, the most important thing to you is always
Speaker 4: the people you serve. As far as you know, your
Speaker 4: ability to get re elected. People in adjoining counties that
Speaker 4: can vote.
Speaker 6: For you are just not as.
Speaker 4: Important as the people that are capable of voting for you.
Speaker 4: So that made the priorities of the case drop lower
Speaker 4: on the list for this new jurisdiction, And in fact,
Speaker 4: until the guy that was serving at that time was
Speaker 4: out of office, the case didn't really get moving on
Speaker 4: the legal front to take it before a grand jury.
Speaker 6: Interesting, so it was kind of stalled, just bibaciously, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it just kind of stalled because you know, you
Speaker 4: have the investigators in one district and you've got the
Speaker 4: prosecutors in another, and coordinating that and raising any kind
Speaker 4: of sense of urgency in a couple of counties away
Speaker 4: is kind of difficult.
Speaker 6: But in the stuff with it, Yeah, I was going
Speaker 6: to say that. Obviously, in the interim, the police know
Speaker 6: that they have a case that's circumstantial, Like I said,
Speaker 6: even though it's a good circumstantial case, they know they
Speaker 6: have these other factors at play, and so they're continuing
Speaker 6: to investigate. So what are some of the kinds of
Speaker 6: things that they did to try to gather and bolster
Speaker 6: their case with any kind of evidence they could that
Speaker 6: would piece together this and kind of counter her her
Speaker 6: account of what happened that day.
Speaker 4: Well, one of the suspicious things came up in the
Speaker 4: toxicology report. They found four or five different medications floating
Speaker 4: around in Dave's bloodstream that should not have been there.
Speaker 4: All of them would have an impact on his awareness
Speaker 4: and alertness, all of them would give him problems doing
Speaker 4: memory tasks. And these were drugs he wasn't supposed to
Speaker 4: be taking. And Raynella, the nurse, knew exactly what drugs did,
Speaker 4: and knew exactly what drugs to get to do what
Speaker 4: she wanted to do, And it is suspected that that's
Speaker 4: why she and the doctor she took him to were
Speaker 4: the only people that thought something was wrong with Dave
Speaker 4: because she'd been drugging him off and on for quite
Speaker 4: some time to set up the scenario.
Speaker 6: Now the investigators have to also because she is stating
Speaker 6: that he was suicidal and obviously committed suicide. Are they
Speaker 6: gathering it? Are they speaking to, like, say, his co partner,
Speaker 6: the co owner of his barbershop or this hair salon
Speaker 6: is a man named Hoight. So what does Hoight have
Speaker 6: to say? Again, another close friend and he knows Raynella.
Speaker 6: And we're going to have to introduce this character because
Speaker 6: it's incredible his behavior as well his belief in Raynella.
Speaker 6: Yet he's a really good friend of David. So tell
Speaker 6: us about hoy and his ideas about this.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, he was not at all comfortable with
Speaker 4: the idea of suicide. And the other thing that really
Speaker 4: really bothered him was the fact that Raynella probably so
Speaker 4: fast to get Dave cremated. Now, Corey personally had nothing
Speaker 4: wrong with cremation. He was thinking he'd probably be cremated.
Speaker 6: But when he.
Speaker 4: Once told Dave about that, Dave got all over his
Speaker 4: case and told him it was wrong that. You know,
Speaker 4: she got.
Speaker 6: Well sin to have lost Diane completely, so we will
Speaker 6: just wait for her to reconnect. I'm sure that you
Speaker 6: will get back online here with us for those listening.
Speaker 6: Of course, we've been listening to Diane Fanning and talking
Speaker 6: about her incredible new book, Her Deadly Web. We were
Speaker 6: just talking about Renella and right now they are trying
Speaker 6: to get this thing to try well, and we've If
Speaker 6: you've been listening carefully, obviously you know that it doesn't
Speaker 6: look like what should look like a slam dunk case
Speaker 6: is not. And here we have, thank god, Diane Fanning
Speaker 6: back on, so we'll reconnect her and continue.
Speaker 4: They Suddenly you were gone.
Speaker 6: And I was talking away okay where we were back
Speaker 6: with Raynella and you were talking about jeez oh Hoy.
Speaker 4: Yes, we were talking about Hoy and ho was Hoy.
Speaker 4: Had once told Dave that he was what he died,
Speaker 4: He's going to be cremated, and Dave got all over
Speaker 4: his case and told him he couldn't do that. You know,
Speaker 4: you can't go to heaven if you've been cremated. It
Speaker 4: was a very firm belief in. Dave said that he
Speaker 4: did not want to be cremated, and yet weeks before
Speaker 4: he died, Raynella had pre paid for his cremation.
Speaker 6: The other thing too, that he must have mentioned it,
Speaker 6: and because it was noteworthy enough to his daughter Cindy
Speaker 6: as well, that she thought it was odd because I
Speaker 6: was against his wishes.
Speaker 4: Yes, and everyone's good, Fred Gordon. Everybody that knew him
Speaker 4: knew that this was a very fervent and deeply felt
Speaker 4: religious belief. He did not, absolutely not want to be cremated.
Speaker 4: And you know, there is no possibility that Raynella didn't
Speaker 4: know that. But two weeks before he died, she prepays
Speaker 4: for his creation. You know that that was pretty darn suspicious.
Speaker 6: Yeah. The other thing that I thought was fascinating to
Speaker 6: again this is I read all kinds of these books,
Speaker 6: as you know, and this is amazing. A few days
Speaker 6: after the funeral, Raynella gathers friends and family at the
Speaker 6: home for a meeting. Of course, why not have your
Speaker 6: attorney present from the h bell So there's an attorney there, now,
Speaker 6: it's amazing. Attorney has a tape recorder and so Cindy
Speaker 6: is there, I believe, and a hoint is there as well,
Speaker 6: and Raynella, and if there's someone else, please tell me.
Speaker 6: But what it is is that I got to get
Speaker 6: you to tell our audience, what's the question this person?
Speaker 6: This is there is a lawyer with a tape recorder
Speaker 6: a few days after the future funeral, and here's Raynella
Speaker 6: and here's her lawyer with a tape recorder. And what
Speaker 6: question does the lawyer ask the hoint especially but the
Speaker 6: people in the room and an attempt to record their response.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, he was an attorney for Raynella, and
Speaker 4: he was very interested in and in making sure that
Speaker 4: ray Nella was protected from harm. So he started asking
Speaker 4: them questions about Dave's suicide and and whether or not
Speaker 4: that they could testify to his state of mind. And
Speaker 4: it came out and asked him, you know, I mean
Speaker 4: could we count on you basically, and Boyd said no,
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think I could do anything to
Speaker 4: help you at all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was the way the question was asked was basically,
Speaker 6: why did you think Dave committed suicide?
Speaker 4: Exactly?
Speaker 6: Yes, that's White basically said, you know, well number one,
Speaker 6: you know I don't. An attorney said, well, I guess
Speaker 6: the meeting's over, and White said, yeah, you're right. I
Speaker 6: found that fascinating. I've never heard of any kind of
Speaker 6: meeting like this. The other thing we skipped over too,
Speaker 6: because this is this is some this is some real
Speaker 6: gold here that at the funeral she says, I was
Speaker 6: nothing but Dave's hood ornament.
Speaker 4: Yes, And why in Heaven's name she thought that or
Speaker 4: would even say something like that at his funeral. It
Speaker 4: just made nonsense, and she obviously ran the family.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of trust that this woman had built
Speaker 6: up and a lot of confidence in her that it's
Speaker 6: just hard to hard to comprehend that even Hoyite, even
Speaker 6: going to the meeting, I can't believe that he isn't
Speaker 6: that you know that, you know, the light bulbs aren't
Speaker 6: going off already here, you know, idea idea here with
Speaker 6: what she's doing. So and we continue with the police investigation.
Speaker 6: How do they proceed with this? You say this case
Speaker 6: was stalled somewhat because it wasn't a priority for the
Speaker 6: other now the two counties away prosecutors that are coming here,
Speaker 6: and we understand why because if it's you know, it's
Speaker 6: a politics basically, So tell us how things do proceed
Speaker 6: at this point.
Speaker 4: Well, eventually there's a new man in that office, and
Speaker 4: he is essentially shamed into doing it by a public
Speaker 4: letter from Dave Leaf's daughter demanding justice for her father,
Speaker 4: and and that sort of helped.
Speaker 6: Get the ball rolling.
Speaker 4: On top of that, the Tennessee State Police have some
Speaker 4: forensic experts, and one of them, you know, they you
Speaker 4: want to have one of them testify about guns. So
Speaker 4: the guy that's examining the gun, the murder weapon, notice
Speaker 4: that it's a type of gun that keeps the casings
Speaker 4: inside of the gun. They don't expel when the shot
Speaker 4: is fired. And he realizes that there's two different kinds
Speaker 4: of ammunition in the gun. And he realizes because of that,
Speaker 4: exactly the order of the shots it went headboard, head
Speaker 4: and mattress. And that became very important because the separate
Speaker 4: brainstem David could not have fired that third shot, right,
Speaker 4: And what the prosecutors and investigators believed was that the
Speaker 4: third shot was fired for the whole reason of getting
Speaker 4: gun shot residue on David's hand. So she put the
Speaker 4: gun into his hand after he was dead and fired
Speaker 4: that third shot through the mattress.
Speaker 6: And that's what cooked her goose, or at least was the.
Speaker 4: I think yes, yes, I mean yeah, and you know,
Speaker 4: I mean she did all sorts of things that were
Speaker 4: just pretty darn heartless. Like she sent it was hoyt.
Speaker 4: She gave him a cardboard box and she said, give
Speaker 4: this to Cindy, who's Dave's daughter. And so he took
Speaker 4: the cardboard box and gave it to Cindy. When she
Speaker 4: opened up this just playing cardboard box, what was inside
Speaker 4: of it but her father's cremains.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's pretty darnheartless. Yeah, I would say that.
Speaker 4: M And So it was when all this came out
Speaker 4: that people started looking back at the murder of Ed,
Speaker 4: at the death of Ed doct and what they discovered
Speaker 4: was that when Ed Dost died there was only a
Speaker 4: part way autopsy done, and what was done was the
Speaker 4: report was filed before the toxicology report was completed, and
Speaker 4: when when the medical examiner later turned into toxicology report,
Speaker 4: he was sort of waiting for the prosecutor's office to tell,
Speaker 4: you know, to talk to him about it, which they
Speaker 4: never did. In the prosecutor's office, there were people thinking
Speaker 4: that maybe you know, Ed had this was some sort
Speaker 4: of plan of Ads to get more money from Raynella
Speaker 4: and the children, since he was leaving three children behind.
Speaker 4: If he died in accidental death, then it would they
Speaker 4: would get double indemnity on the insurance, and they didn't.
Speaker 4: They didn't want to look into it because the best
Speaker 4: scenario they could see it was insurance fraud, and he
Speaker 4: just didn't want to dig that up on a widow
Speaker 4: with three little children, right, So instead they just set
Speaker 4: it aside. But they found out in that toxicology report
Speaker 4: when they looked at it later years that what he
Speaker 4: really died from was an overdose of morphine. And although
Speaker 4: there were a couple of marks on his body from
Speaker 4: the hoofs of the cattle, that there were no way
Speaker 4: serious enough injuries to have called caused Anyone's said, so a.
Speaker 6: Bunch of people not really doing their job to their
Speaker 6: full extent exactly. Again, it's just part of the charm
Speaker 6: of this woman to be able to buffalo these people
Speaker 6: that are more than have their loyalty to her husband.
Speaker 6: And yet that's the striking thing that's nobody can really
Speaker 6: put a finger on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the only people, well, the other the only
Speaker 4: people that were really really suspicious from the get go
Speaker 4: were Ed's family, right. They they were very troubled by this,
Speaker 4: and and some of the farmers out that way too.
Speaker 4: They knew Ed's heard Ed had a herd of polled
Speaker 4: Herford's and Herfords just don't stampeded. I mean, they're not
Speaker 4: prone to it. They're more likely to step on a
Speaker 4: hue and body if it's behind them and they don't
Speaker 4: realize it, but they're not going to go stampede and
Speaker 4: run over people. They're very gentle. And the farmers I
Speaker 4: talked to out there said Ed's cows were even gentle
Speaker 4: for poul Trford, So it was like really unusual that
Speaker 4: there would be an agricultural accident involving that particular type
Speaker 4: of cow.
Speaker 6: So so we're charges pursued by police and by district
Speaker 6: attorney for the first for Ed Dawson.
Speaker 4: Yes, they actually charged her with the murder, but they
Speaker 4: didn't want to go to trial until they exhumed the body.
Speaker 4: And since there was such a sloppy autopsy done the
Speaker 4: first time, and you know, it was only half done
Speaker 4: and everything wasn't checked and there was no notation. For example,
Speaker 4: the morphine pump would had to have been in him
Speaker 4: because it was installed by doctors before he had died.
Speaker 4: They they they had to look at that body again.
Speaker 4: But you know, Raynella object to the exhumation, and the
Speaker 4: judge decides to protect the sanctity of the deceased and
Speaker 4: not desecrate the body by digging them up again, which
Speaker 4: makes no sense to me.
Speaker 6: And yet, and yet, ed Dossett's family, for the most part,
Speaker 6: or at least the people that would be the people
Speaker 6: that authorized it, they were okay with.
Speaker 4: That because well, except for Raynella and his children, who
Speaker 4: were under basically under Raynella's control, the only people that
Speaker 4: his parents were both dead, He had no siblings, and
Speaker 4: he had cousins that he'd been raised with. But you
Speaker 4: know that they a wife would then have a stronger
Speaker 4: say so, right, you know, So it just was. I
Speaker 4: mean the two daughters that were living objected to it too.
Speaker 4: I mean they were on their mother's side, which is
Speaker 4: actually the typical reaction when a spouse kills another spouse,
Speaker 4: The children tend to side with the surviving spouse because
Speaker 4: that's the only parent they have.
Speaker 6: Right So in the end, with this, she is is
Speaker 6: it confirmed that she has killed these two husbands.
Speaker 4: It took two trials. It took two trials. The first one,
Speaker 4: I had a hung story. Eleven had voted guilty and
Speaker 4: one not guilty. In the second trial, all twelve voted
Speaker 4: her guilty. She was given life without parole. In the
Speaker 4: case of Ed does It, the prosecution moved to drop
Speaker 4: the case without prejudice. They had doubts that they could
Speaker 4: win a case without getting an exhumation order. They had
Speaker 4: her in jail for the rest of her life. But
Speaker 4: because they had it done without prejudice, that meant that, should,
Speaker 4: by chance Braynella get out on an appeal with the
Speaker 4: murder of David Leath, they still had this they could
Speaker 4: reinstate the charges again. So basically Ed's death is tagging
Speaker 4: over her head and as long as she's served, is
Speaker 4: serving her sentence at prison. I don't think they'll be
Speaker 4: doing anything. But once that's done, they are going to
Speaker 4: move and try to get an exhumation again. I'm sure.
Speaker 6: Now this is the hung jury in the first one,
Speaker 6: that's that's quite an achievement actually, for for a defense
Speaker 6: team to be able to do that with let alone one,
Speaker 6: let alone with just wonder let alone too. Again, it
Speaker 6: was just one.
Speaker 4: It was just one that hung the jury, and and
Speaker 4: the the the ironic thing was one of the things
Speaker 4: they were asked before they were selected, was can you know,
Speaker 4: can you decide guilt based on a circumstantial case which
Speaker 4: there's no eyewitnesses or anything like that, And and you know,
Speaker 4: they all said yes. But then this one guy who
Speaker 4: drugged the jury along for a couple of days while
Speaker 4: he was dilly delling and trying to decide, finally came
Speaker 4: to the inclusion says there was no eyewitness and quite frankly,
Speaker 4: you know, if you're going to kill a spouse in
Speaker 4: your home, you're not going to invite someone to watch.
Speaker 4: And there was no DNA evidence. Well, how they expect
Speaker 4: to get the DNA evidence when these two people are
Speaker 4: both living in the same house and there was no
Speaker 4: smoking gun, as it were, I mean, you know, so
Speaker 4: basically he said that he could decide on a circumstantial case,
Speaker 4: but when it came down to it, he could. He
Speaker 4: wanted he wanted a CSI moment, and there just wasn't one.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, because of her connections, I guess it
Speaker 6: seemed to be. You know, when you have when you
Speaker 6: have a good lawyer, when you have supporters in the
Speaker 6: legal community, it does make a difference. That person has
Speaker 6: afforded even more.
Speaker 4: You know, it's not right, but it's true.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it's not right, but it's that's what happened.
Speaker 6: And so, I mean that's the inequity of the judicial system.
Speaker 6: Money really makes a huge difference how you're represented in court,
Speaker 6: so and again the treatment that you're afforded. You see
Speaker 6: only celebrities get bail on murder cases usually, but you'll
Speaker 6: see celebrities get bail for years once they're charged, you know,
Speaker 6: So there's a difference. But at the same time, I
Speaker 6: think everyone involved illegal people especially would realize this person
Speaker 6: is likely going to be convicted. And so you see
Speaker 6: a lot of times where the first trial, but subsequent trials,
Speaker 6: I mean obviously if district attorney refiles the charges or
Speaker 6: appeals it and says we're going to do it again,
Speaker 6: they are convinced that they have enough evidence, so they're
Speaker 6: not going to let go. And like you say, with
Speaker 6: this woman here, she if she ever were to get parole,
Speaker 6: they have a solution for that too. So they are
Speaker 6: planning on having this woman in for the rest of
Speaker 6: her life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the twists and turned to this story, we're
Speaker 4: just incredible, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, if you ever heard a case where there
Speaker 4: were involved two medical examiners who pulled guns to law enforcement.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, that was one of the bizarre
Speaker 4: things to this story.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And you know, another one of it I thought
Speaker 6: was interesting early on too, is that she she I
Speaker 6: think she's being questioned, and she turns on the television
Speaker 6: set so she can watch Joyce Myers tell of you know,
Speaker 6: tell Evangelists on which I've seen, so I know who
Speaker 6: she is. So so she found that it felt it
Speaker 6: important that she not missed that episode again kind of
Speaker 6: keeping with the demeanor of the police for kind of
Speaker 6: scratching her head, you know. So she was wailing and
Speaker 6: screaming and laying on the front grass, but then later
Speaker 6: soon after kind of composed.
Speaker 4: So and when the police got to the house, the
Speaker 4: clothes ryer was running and and Moawyers asked her, I said, well, oh,
Speaker 4: you know when the last time you used to close
Speaker 4: the clothes Fiars said, oh, that was before I left
Speaker 4: to go up to the school.
Speaker 6: In the hospital three hours earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 6: that's a big load. Probably she's probably done, okay, yes, yeah.
Speaker 6: And the other thing too, that she was a nurse,
Speaker 6: but there was no blood spider on her at all.
Speaker 6: So she didn't attempt any CPR, Like, yeah, no tr.
Speaker 4: Chains on her clothing. And you know, even when it's
Speaker 4: totally hopeless, if you really love somebody, you will grab
Speaker 4: hold of them, you will try to bring them back
Speaker 4: to life, even if you know there's absolutely no sense
Speaker 4: to doing that at all. And yet here she is.
Speaker 4: She's a trained nurse. She had a lot of knowledge
Speaker 4: at her disposal, you know, and she wasn't just you know,
Speaker 4: nobody nurse. I mean, this is someone have been nursing
Speaker 4: for quite some time and she was a charged nurse
Speaker 4: at the hospital was her last job. So she was
Speaker 4: quite experienced and quite expert. And you know, the thought
Speaker 4: that she did nothing to come to the aid of
Speaker 4: her husband was a very very suspicious thing.
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, Well, it's a fascinating till, Diane, and I'm
Speaker 6: glad you've dug up just one more fascinating till. So
Speaker 6: the book that people have been listening to this evening
Speaker 6: is your latest, Her Deadly Web. What have you got
Speaker 6: planned for in the near future? What's your next book project?
Speaker 1: Do you know?
Speaker 4: Well, my next book coming out is fiction. It is
Speaker 4: the sixth book in my Lieutenant listen to Pierce mystery
Speaker 4: series Ie A Wrong Turn. That'll be out the UK
Speaker 4: come out into September and the US first January. Then
Speaker 4: I have another true crime coming out in May. It's
Speaker 4: called Murder on the home Front and it is about
Speaker 4: Julius schenneker Case and Julie shot her two teenage kids
Speaker 4: and when the police arrived, she told them she did
Speaker 4: it because they were mouthy.
Speaker 6: Oh incredible. Well, it's always been a great time having
Speaker 6: you on my program and getting a chance to talk
Speaker 6: to about your latest and greatest true crime books. So
Speaker 6: thank you very much for this, Diane, and maybe you
Speaker 6: could tell us about your You have an excellent website
Speaker 6: with a lot of information that people might want to visit.
Speaker 6: Give us a get a little plug in for that
Speaker 6: as well.
Speaker 4: Okay, it's www dot Diane Fanning d I A N
Speaker 4: E F A N N I n G dot com.
Speaker 4: At the bottom of what my every web page is
Speaker 4: my email address if anyone wants to send me any
Speaker 4: questions or comments. And one of the new things that
Speaker 4: since we've talked is I now have ten of my
Speaker 4: eleven true crime books are available in audio, so for
Speaker 4: people who are commuting or might be visually disabled. There
Speaker 4: is there's an audio version of the books now that
Speaker 4: you can get from audible dot com or on Amazon.
Speaker 4: So yeah, we got that going. And of course ebooks
Speaker 4: and you know there's there's so much stuff going on.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, audiobooks were really rising
Speaker 6: in popularity and then ebooks came around, so I said,
Speaker 6: well what about audiobooks. Now you don't have to send
Speaker 6: you know, four or six pound box for someone's house
Speaker 6: with all these d d ds now right right, you know,
Speaker 6: So it's great, it's it's it's helping anyway, I really do.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: When I used to when I used to commute, I
Speaker 4: had an hour long each way, and and I loved audiobooks.
Speaker 4: I mean it made the time faster, particularly when you
Speaker 4: were stopped in traffic there wasn't moving.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Absolutely, it's a good, good, good time spent. Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you very much, Dane. Good luck with this
Speaker 6: and and everything you're doing. But you don't need any
Speaker 6: luck with this. You've got the you've got the advantage anyway,
Speaker 6: Thank you very much, Dane. Have a good evening, and
Speaker 6: thank you once again for coming on the program.
Speaker 4: Nice to see me, talk to you again. Bye bye,
Speaker 4: good bye bye.