WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.560 We're heading to Kentucky not to find out the colonel's 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:08.759 original recipe, but to discuss an amendment proposal to their 3 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:13.480 constitution that could be a waste of time, money, and 4 00:00:14.119 --> 00:00:18.239 a violation that the establishment clause. Scott Dicky has the story. 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:21.679 Scott Amendment Too in Kentucky proposes a change to the 6 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.160 state constitution that would allow public funds to support private, 7 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:29.199 mostly religious schools through a voucher system, where that vword 8 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.759 coming up again. Critics argue this could severely damage public 9 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:36.200 education by diverting significant funds up to one point one 10 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.159 to nine billion annually away from public schools, especially harming 11 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.439 rural areas dependent on state funding. The amendment is seen 12 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:47.439 as a way to bypass existing constitutional barriers that prevent 13 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:52.039 public money from financing private religious education. Opponents, including Governor 14 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.920 Andy Basheer Warren, that the amendment is misleading and could 15 00:00:56.039 --> 00:01:00.399 lead to worse educational outcomes for most students. This story 16 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.960 is from The Friendly Atheist by Himant Meta on eight 17 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:05.879 twenty eight, twenty twenty four. 18 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:09.280 Thank you, Scott, and since you introduced the story to us, 19 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:13.400 I want to ask you how might the introduction of 20 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:18.079 a voucher system as proposed in amendment to affect the 21 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:23.319 equitable distribution of educational resources across different socio and economic 22 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:24.239 and rural community. 23 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:26.680 It'll fuck it up. Next question, now, I'm just kidding. 24 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:29.599 Answer right, so, yeah, answer. 25 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.359 It's going to It allows them to divert the money 26 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.079 to where they want it to go. I mean, it's 27 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.159 public money, and it's taking it away from and like 28 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:40.760 I said in the intro, it's the rural districts that 29 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:46.359 have lower population, they have lower land value, and so 30 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:48.560 their tax base is a little bit lower, and so 31 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:51.319 they can't afford to put up as much of a 32 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:54.799 fight against ignorance as they can in the cities. But 33 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:56.480 what this is doing is it's going to be it's 34 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.840 going to take money away from those struggling districts and 35 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.760 it's going to redirect it into private schools. And you know, 36 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:06.959 it seems like we cover these voucher stories very often 37 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.800 on the nonprofits. It's really one of our regular kind 38 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.639 of stories. And I'm not saying that because I think 39 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.960 that we should stop doing it. I'm saying that because 40 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.120 we need to keep bringing this up. We need to 41 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.599 keep mentioning this, we need to keep bringing it, putting 42 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.520 it on the front page there, and it's getting so 43 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.840 that it's hard for me to say, you know, I 44 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.680 try to at least approach it at a slightly different 45 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.759 angle each time to kind of expand our knowledge of 46 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:32.599 what's going on here. So what I did this time 47 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:37.800 is I looked. I found four facts. Four facts that 48 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:42.240 I got from the National Education Association about the school 49 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:46.199 voucher programs. Fact number one, there's no link between vouchers 50 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:48.759 and gains and student achievement. Okay, I'll say that again. 51 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:52.919 There's no link between vouchers and gains and student achievement, 52 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.800 or at least none, none that they've discovered. There's no 53 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:59.680 conclusive evidence that vouchers improved achievement of students who attend prime, 54 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.120 even those students who use those that money to attend 55 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:05.919 private schools. And so not only is it harming the 56 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:09.039 public school students, but it's not helping the students that 57 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.759 are using that money. Nor is there any validity to 58 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:15.919 the claims that it creates a competitive marketplace to encourage 59 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:20.319 those struggling public schools to step up and and do better. Okay, 60 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.319 so it doesn't. It doesn't raise scores, it doesn't improve 61 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:28.199 the education system. Second fact, vouchers undermined accountability for public funds. 62 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.680 Private schools are different than public schools in a few ways, 63 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.520 but one of those ways has to do with accountability. 64 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:39.879 Being private institutions, they're not required to be as transparent 65 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.520 and accountable as a public school might. And so if 66 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.960 you divert money to these private schools, you know, they 67 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.520 have fewer restrictions on who they teach, what they teach, 68 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.919 how they teach, how they measure student achievement, if at all, 69 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.439 how they manage their finances, and what they're required to 70 00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:00.120 disclose to parents in the public. So it clouds accountability. 71 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:04.120 Third fact, vouchers do not reduce public education costs. Okay, 72 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.400 actually they increase costs by requiring taxpayers to fund two 73 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.360 separate school systems. They have to fund the public school 74 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.919 system and now they have to supplement the private school 75 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:18.160 system as well. And so you know that's going to 76 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.920 lead to things like more strain on the teachers that 77 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:24.519 they have. It's going to be lead to larger classrooms, 78 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:28.439 it's going to be less money for resources, textbooks, school nurses, counselors, 79 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.040 et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's just there will 80 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:34.800 just be generally less money available for all students. And 81 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.439 the final fact number four here, vouchers actually don't give 82 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:43.680 parents real educational choice. Private schools don't. There's no requirements 83 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.759 for private schools to accept students like there are for 84 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.040 public schools, so they can discriminate. They can discriminate based 85 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:55.160 off of a variety of things, gender, religion, sexual orientation, ability, 86 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:59.839 behavioral history, prior academic achievements, standardized test scores, even based 87 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.800 off of interviews with the students, and income, and so, uh, 88 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:08.720 it kind of gives us these private schools arbitrary ability 89 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:12.079 to push out the students that they don't want and 90 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.199 to keep the students that they do want. And so it's, uh, 91 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:17.920 it's very frustrating and and all of the all of 92 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:20.480 the talking points that are put out there in favor 93 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:23.560 about your programs are actually the opposite is true for 94 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.040 all of those and so it's it's really not a 95 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:27.959 not a good situation for anybody. 96 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:32.199 Well, you know, I mentioned in my little intro blurb 97 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.759 about a possible violation of the establic law, Cindy, I 98 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.879 think that you kind of alluded to that and some 99 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.680 of the thoughts that you jotted down can you kind 100 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.759 of go into further depth about that specificity and some 101 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:50.160 other implications that you might see that this particular amendment 102 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:52.000 might have going down the road. 103 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.800 Yeah. So yeah, it's it's totally against the US Constitution. 104 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:02.600 Constitution in principle. It also lowers education for rural areas, 105 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:08.680 as we discussed in the previous segment, which impacts Republicans more. Actually, 106 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:12.519 although it's probably the point you know, as we discussed, 107 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:17.839 it will cripple the state budget with devastating effects on 108 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:22.439 the long term. The less people and therefore parents also 109 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:27.680 future parents are uneducated, the easier it gets to pass 110 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:32.839 laws like this. As Scott said, the arguments used in 111 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.480 favor of those laws, they are just nonsense. So it's 112 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:41.560 a it's a vicious circle, and it weaponizes people's ignorance 113 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:48.639 against themselves. It's pretty cunning, but it's diabolical. And remember 114 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:53.160 Kentucky is ranked thirty fourth in education in the US. 115 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:57.439 So yeah, there's that. Yeah, this is a textbook example 116 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:01.240 of how to increase politician's power so that they can 117 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:06.800 rule instead of represent uh. And it's another very small 118 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:12.439 step to turn the US into a Christian telement system. 119 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:17.199 She is yeah, yeah, And There's also something something else 120 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:21.160 is you know when when when you talk about money 121 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:27.199 in in education, like, uh, there's been discussions about giving 122 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.720 free food for children in school and all this stuff, 123 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.560 there's always from the right coming the area that who's 124 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:38.000 going to pay this, Well, look look how much money 125 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.720 is wasted? You know when when when talking about these, 126 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.800 people often come to, yeah, look at how the how 127 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:49.439 much the military in the US takes money. But I 128 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:51.519 think that's not the worst. 129 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.680 The worst waste. 130 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:57.000 Of money, in my opinion in the US is that 131 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.519 these voucher systems that are put in place, and also 132 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.199 the amount of money that goes into settlements because of 133 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:10.319 police brutality in the States. Some states spend up to 134 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:16.839 a billion every year in settlements for police malfunction every year, 135 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:22.360 and the money, the amount of money that represents is 136 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.759 just buffling. And so the fact that people won't spend 137 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:33.120 like ten to fifteen millions to give to children and 138 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.480 instead they will put money into this and vote for 139 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:40.440 this and vote for people who advocate for this, it's 140 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.080 just crazy. 141 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:47.120 Well, to quote Scott's leader in Scott's State, any person 142 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:51.639 that has an issue with feeding giving kids breakfast and 143 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:58.600 lunch at school is just weird. I agree, but I 144 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.600 wanted to kind of talk more about this whole language 145 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:06.320 concerning the voucher system and also like using like obscure 146 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.960 language specifically around school choice. And Scott, you did an 147 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:14.360 excellent job about how basically school choice is not really 148 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:17.600 school choice and what they really think it is when 149 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:21.240 people first hear that is not going to be as 150 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:23.200 as the children say a flex. 151 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:23.840 Right. 152 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.279 So, Scott, I want to talk to you and especially 153 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:33.320 want to ask you how might the language used in 154 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:38.960 amendment to such as school choice obscure the potential consequences 155 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:39.840 of a proposal? 156 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.360 Well, I mean that is that's for you know, for 157 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.360 the people that are putting that language in, that is 158 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.879 a feature, not a bug. It that is that it 159 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:53.240 obscures the true intent behind there. And so the language 160 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:56.840 is everything, right. The language is what gets past in Congress. 161 00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:59.639 The language is what the governor signs or no, this 162 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:03.000 was a constitutional amendment, right, So so the language is 163 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.639 what we're we're reading on the ballot as we decide 164 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.480 if we want to pass it or not or that 165 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.320 kind of thing. And so, uh, I mean, really that's 166 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:14.159 just the the cheap makeup that's slathered on the pig, right. 167 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.799 I mean it's it's you can do that all day. 168 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:21.600 It's still a pig though. And so it really whether 169 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:25.039 it's twofold one, it high. It hides what's happening from 170 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.039 the people that are concerned about it, and it also 171 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.360 the people that are in support of this kind of thing. Uh, 172 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:36.480 it gives them an opportunity to convince themselves that they're 173 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:39.159 on the on the right side. Right. I think it 174 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.360 was Mark Twain who said something about it's much easier 175 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.960 to fool somebody than to convince yourself that you've been 176 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:49.840 fooled or something like that. And so anything that they 177 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:54.080 can do to uh support that without having to, you know, 178 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.840 without having to to show me the money, right, without 179 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:00.440 having to to you know, have the evidence back up 180 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:02.879 your claims, you need to cover it up. And so 181 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.519 I think it has that twofold effected. It hides with 182 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:08.559 the true intentions from the people, from the watchdogs, and 183 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.639 it gives the zelots, you know, some gasoline in there 184 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.159 in their tank so that they can you know, fight 185 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.519 it and live and live and fight the next day 186 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:18.200 as well. 187 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.519 That gaslighting and implication that she talked about previously. 188 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:22.879 Yeah. 189 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.440 So, but Jonathan, I want you to instead of talk 190 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:31.240 about gaslighting, can you talk about the ethical implication that 191 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.759 putting this amendment on the Constitution in Kentucky can have, 192 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:40.080 and maybe some of the other consequences that can actually 193 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:45.639 be in the future with this particular amendment if it 194 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:46.519 actually passes. 195 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.360 Yeah, one of the things is the way when I 196 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:53.960 read it, the way it was worded that bothered me. 197 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.480 And this was the Washington and the Washington Post. Also 198 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:02.600 taxpayers and more than half the country now funding creationism, homophobia, 199 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:08.879 anti transgender misinformation, and Sunday School nonsense masquerading as actual 200 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.200 history and science, and Kentucky may soon join their ranks. 201 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:14.879 If you put this in the constitution of your state, 202 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.519 the only thing that supersedes that in that state is 203 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:23.320 the federal Constitution. So that federal Constitution is next to 204 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:27.320 impossible to change. I mean, seventy five percent of the states, 205 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:31.039 after two thirds of both houses of Congress have passed it, 206 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.360 seventy five percent of the states have to also pass it. 207 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.440 So it's a high bar to change the constitution, and 208 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.960 rightfully so, but it's not so high a bar in 209 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:47.159 the states. And if they can put it into the constitution, 210 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.399 it will take a long time to change it if 211 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:53.279 it's going to be changed, And this is going to 212 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:58.799 have long term implications for schools, and it's going to 213 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:04.200 really really be a massive like it's like you said, 214 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:10.759 a massive finance shift to religious schools, because over ninety 215 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.399 percent of the people who take these kinds of vulture 216 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:18.879 programs are religious schools. So it is a direct violation 217 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.039 of the federal constitution. But who's going to bring that suit? 218 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.600 It has to be they have to have standing to 219 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:29.279 do that. So I'm wondering now, as the children start 220 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.679 to grow up homeschooled and taught nothing about the work 221 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:39.279 and the work and play, they will be totally unprepared 222 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:44.480 to exist in the society with other people, especially other 223 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:48.240 people who don't happen to share their views or values 224 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:50.720 or from different parts of the country. How are they 225 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:52.639 going to work with those people if they have to 226 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.279 spend their entire time catching up trying to figure out 227 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.080 what they're doing and how they're doing. There is no 228 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.200 substanue for standardized education. Everybody starts with the same information 229 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:08.879 at the same level as practicable according to their own 230 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:12.080 skills and their own intellect, of course, but that intellect 231 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:16.799 doesn't get developed by teaching them sixteenth century English, you know, 232 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:21.080 it just doesn't help. So it's not going to be something. 233 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:24.720 This will have a snowball effect before it can get changed. 234 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.840 It will have a snowball effect in really damaging an 235 00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:33.759 entire generation of students. Because also one other point is 236 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:38.000 that if students are discriminated against but the private schools 237 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.279 and thrown out for any one of those reasons we stated, 238 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.720 they're going back to the public schools. Now, if they're 239 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.759 children with special needs, that burden is on a chronically 240 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:56.159 even more underfunded teachers and system to take care of 241 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.200 their needs. And where are they going to fall They'll 242 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:02.399 fall out of the system, and then what's their life 243 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:10.000 expectancy or their success expectancy in regular in the regular society. 244 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.559 So I am really kind of furious at the way 245 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:17.039 they worded this. This is like, do this favor for 246 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:20.440 your children. Of course, ten percent of your kids. The 247 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.039 other ninety percent we're thrown under the bus while we 248 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.919 do this. But don't look at that. Look at these 249 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.240 ten percent that we're going to help by sending them 250 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.159 to a religious school. You're not helping them either. Religious 251 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.080 schools are notoriously bad at getting people ready to deal 252 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.039 with reality. So that's where we stand, you know, and 253 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:43.240 I'm really kind of upset about this whole situation. 254 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.759 Yeah, the righteous indignation, I think that can be shared 255 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.120 with all the panel right now when you're actually looking 256 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:54.120 at this, And just as a pushback to you, Jonathan, 257 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.200 as far as like, you know, implementing sixteenth century English, 258 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.600 I think that some of our English counterparts on the 259 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:09.679 nonprofits would actually disagree with you. Hey, Phoebe girl, Richard. 260 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.039 Still speaking in Richard and Phoebe, you're still speaking in it. 261 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:17.279 And on top of that, they're lawyers, both friends. You 262 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.960 know that rich rich studies that stuff, but he doesn't 263 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.759 study it just in English. He studies, you know, he 264 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.720 studies it in translations from other languages as well. 265 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:29.720 And we got to also give a shout out to 266 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.600 doctor Richard Firth as well, who's a professor of these 267 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:34.519 particular things. 268 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.240 But of course everybody's favorite Blindlimey. 269 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:44.919 Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Shout out to the UK crew 270 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.840 with the ACA. We appreciate you. Just don't give us 271 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:54.919 any bangers a mash. But I wanted to, but I 272 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:58.639 want I wanted to go back to something that you mentioned, Jonathan, 273 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.759 when you're talking about, like, you know, the biases that 274 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.839 could also happen when you are looking at how they're 275 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:10.319 implementing this particular amendment, and also the ramifications that it 276 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.079 could cause to other students who happened to not fit 277 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.480 into the same pool. And I think that you know, Scott, 278 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.559 you wanted to expand a little bit on the potential 279 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:25.599 of racism in implementing this particular constitutional midment. Can you 280 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:26.720 speak on that a bit more? 281 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.839 Yeah, yeah, And I'll try to be brief. But in 282 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:35.680 my research behind getting prepared for this story, I came 283 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:39.240 across this wonderful article. It was on Americanprogress dot org 284 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:41.359 and you can find it. You can find this article 285 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.480 by googling the racist origins of private school vouchers. And 286 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:50.279 it was a fascinating article. It was heavily footnoted and sourced. Basically, 287 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.279 it occupied the bulk of a day for me just 288 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.880 following all these little rabbit trails and all these little 289 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.400 bits of information. I wanted to read the last paragraph. 290 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.920 I'll cut it down to just the last sentence. It says, 291 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.240 no matter how well intentioned, widespread voucher programs risk exacerbating 292 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.839 segregation in schools and leaving the most vulnerable students and 293 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.440 the public schools they attend behind. And so we talked 294 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:18.799 a little bit about how schools can discriminate. Basically, private 295 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:23.200 schools can discriminate to a certain extent, and you know, 296 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.599 and along racial lines is just one one way that 297 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.319 that goes. And you know, that's something that often gets overlooked. 298 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:31.039 I think when we talk about these kind of things, 299 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:35.200 like many of the cherished institutions of the United States, 300 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:40.599 these voucher, these push for school vouchers, have their origins 301 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.720 in racial discrimination. And so it's you know, it tastes 302 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.920 bad no matter where you taste it, right. 303 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.640 Well, you know, as as as Biggie two Duck would say, 304 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:54.839 and I think, Scott, I don't know if you've got bigger, 305 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.359 he's right here, you go. Well, like, you know, if 306 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.240 that this smells like a racism, talks like a racism, 307 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.519 it probably is a racist just say. But I think, 308 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:06.720 and I'll just be brief with this because Cindy, I 309 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:08.839 want to give you the last word, per se. But 310 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.640 you know, I think that we should and I know 311 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.079 that we have covered this topic before. When we are 312 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:19.079 talking about specifically how the crystal fascists or the Christian 313 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:24.079 nationalists utilize some of their talking points in historical senses 314 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:27.240 that came from a racist path. You know. One of 315 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.599 the reasons why we had such a push from the 316 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:34.359 right to get rid of abortion is because of two 317 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:42.880 educational entities, Bob Jones University and Liberature University, who wanted 318 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:47.160 to actually do what you mentioned, have a choice of 319 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:51.440 who they happened to have as students in their institutions, 320 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.119 and they did not want to accept black students. Now, 321 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:00.240 because of this, the university, the actual United States, the 322 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.480 fits basically said, hey, listen, if you don't accept, you know, 323 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.119 students who happen to not be white, then you can 324 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:12.960 lose your funding, uh for you know, for being a school, 325 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.119 for being a university. So you know, they had to 326 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.359 basically hold their nose into letting students happen to be 327 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.880 in who happen to be black and other and other 328 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:25.079 ethnicities and backgrounds and things of that nature. And so 329 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.279 they decided to just pivot what they're going to rally 330 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.880 against in order to get their base together. And and 331 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.000 I think it's and I don't and I don't find 332 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.960 it ironic at all, that it's the same group of people, 333 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.839 the same people who have this political ideology that are 334 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:48.519 also pushing for school choice and also being able to 335 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.160 divert tax dollar money into other religious schools that can 336 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:58.480 discriminate on sexual orientation, gender identification. Hell, if they want 337 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.119 to go back and say that we don't necessarily want 338 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.839 you know, black students, or let's just say they don't 339 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.599 want like Muslim students, or if they don't want you know, 340 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:09.839 students who happen to have immigrated to this country, et cetera, 341 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.400 et cetera, you know, they want to have that particular 342 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.160 choice to do that as well. So yes, we can 343 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:21.119 see historically and also through empirical data that these vouchers 344 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:26.599 are going to be bigoted, in discriminatory in their inception 345 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:29.599 and also in their practice. But I might want to 346 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.000 give the last question to you, you know, as the 347 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:43.359 resident Belgiamite on this panel, Cindy. 348 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.039 Do you spread that on toast too? 349 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:45.720 That up there with Vegiamite. 350 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.640 I don't know, let's go with that. I like it, 351 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:49.920 Let's go let's stick with that. 352 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:50.880 Yeah, let's just. 353 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:52.400 Stick with well, you know, I would like to say 354 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.000 I like Belgium waffles. But you know, let's just let's 355 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.160 just actually bring this back to something more serious. But 356 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:04.640 you know, how can communities and educators effectively advocate for 357 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:09.319 protection of public school funding and oppose measures that could 358 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:11.039 undermine public education. 359 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:16.000 So I have the impression that every time I come 360 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:19.880 to the nonprofits, I say the exact same thing. States 361 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.920 have nothing to do with education, parents have nothing to 362 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:27.359 do with education. It should be led on the federal level. 363 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:30.279 That's one of the things I wanted to say. The 364 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:34.759 second thing is, so there was another shooting in school today, 365 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:40.000 and every time that happens, every time I talk about guns, 366 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:46.160 I remember this conservative judge I don't remember his name, 367 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:51.559 but he said basically that the greatest heist that the 368 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:58.200 Right committee was to pretend and made accepted the idea 369 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:02.480 that the Second Amendment was about individual right to own guns. 370 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.079 And I always have this idea in my mind because 371 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:14.079 when I speak about all these education problems the US faces, 372 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.759 I think that the second biggest heights that the right 373 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.920 has managed to push on is to make believe that 374 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.720 this is a cultural war, when instead it's a class war. 375 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:32.440 They're trying to keep classes separate, like rich people, rich 376 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:37.839 white people, against poor, uneducated, and every kind of people. 377 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.920 And the fact that they disguise it into a culture 378 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:46.799 war makes it less evident to fight. And so you 379 00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:51.200 ask me how it can be fought, it's by identifying 380 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.480 the problem in the first place. It's a class war, 381 00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:55.960 it's not a cultural war. 382 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.880 Well, you know, we're really good at creating class here 383 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:02.640 in the United States. You know, we we created a 384 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:04.119 whole system based. 385 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:05.640 It's pretty damn good at war too. 386 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:12.079 Yeah, we are. We're good at war cultures. Yeah, yeah, 387 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.480 even against our So yes we are. Yes, we are 388 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:15.599 maybe lost. 389 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.880 In education, but boy, can we win in a fight. 390 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.240 Yeh, my goodness. Yeah, that's why we just seem to 391 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.079 be so hyper focused on war. 392 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.880 You just described every school yard bully that ever existed. 393 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.200 This is true, This is true. 394 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:29.759 We're not. 395 00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:34.799 Right, and I don't necessarily have the time to, you know, 396 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.680 get on the on a Shase lounge and talk about 397 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:39.759 my entire k through twelve. 398 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:43.000 With the bully. 399 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:50.000 But but in essence, Amendment TO is a clever disguise 400 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:55.160 for a massive funding shift from public schools to religious institution, 401 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.759