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<v Speaker 1>Oh hey, it's that mark that you get on your

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<v Speaker 1>chin when you're wearing lipstick and then you take a

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<v Speaker 1>bite of a giant sandwich. Ali Ward back with a

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<v Speaker 1>warm blooded and informative hour of chuckles that I just

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<v Speaker 1>can't wait to get to. So just thank you up

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<v Speaker 1>top to everyone on Patreon who submitted questions for this

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<v Speaker 1>episode and who supports the show, and to everyone keeping

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<v Speaker 1>ologies a top science podcast with all of your ratings

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<v Speaker 1>in your word of mouth and your reviews which I

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<v Speaker 1>read on purpose everyone so that I can pick one

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<v Speaker 1>such as this from Cathport, whose review on Apple was

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<v Speaker 1>submitted in the form of this haiku. Interesting folks, bright

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<v Speaker 1>lights in their ologies. Dad Ward, my friend too, Cathport.

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<v Speaker 1>I loved it. Thank you. Also thanks to that one

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<v Speaker 1>car guy named Frank and anonymous seven eighteen for leaving

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<v Speaker 1>your first ever podcast reviews, and Lizzie's thanks for dreaming

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<v Speaker 1>about me next to a campfire. It sounded fascinating. Okay, mammalogy.

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<v Speaker 1>So mammology comes from the Latin for titties, gentle folks,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're going to get so into that I can't

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<v Speaker 1>even tell you, but technically this is an allergy. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not an ology, and I only realize that after spelling

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<v Speaker 1>mammalogy wrong approximately one billion times in a row. So

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<v Speaker 1>this ologist is a big deal. A ted talker multiple times,

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<v Speaker 1>anat GEO explorer, a longtime science writer and an advocate

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<v Speaker 1>and a researcher, a professor, a tweeter, an icon, an

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<v Speaker 1>idol of mine. And I sent my first breathless, very

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<v Speaker 1>sycophantic pleading message to her in January of twenty eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>two and a half years ago, and she was not

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<v Speaker 1>another continent busy with research. And I had been hoping

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<v Speaker 1>for a time that I'd be anywhere near Saint Louis

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<v Speaker 1>and she would have an hour to spare. But time

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<v Speaker 1>and remote recording finally brought us together. She hails from

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<v Speaker 1>Tennessee and got her bachelor's degree in animal science at

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<v Speaker 1>Tennessee Technological University, got a master's from a University of

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<v Speaker 1>Memphis and a PhD from University of Missouri Saint Louis.

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<v Speaker 1>She did postdocs at Oklahoma State and at Cornell University.

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<v Speaker 1>She's currently an assistant professor of Biology and Urban Ecology

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<v Speaker 1>and Mammology at Southern Illinois University in Edwardsville, and is

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<v Speaker 1>also an organizer of this week's Black Mammalogist Week, which

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<v Speaker 1>runs September thirteenth through nineteenth. So you were definitely gonna

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<v Speaker 1>want to follow Black Mammologists b LK Mammologists on Twitter

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<v Speaker 1>and get ready. They got technique Tuesday, they got we

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<v Speaker 1>out here Wednesday, Threatened mammals Thursday for Friday, see Mammals

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<v Speaker 1>Saturday this week. So there's more info and links up

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<v Speaker 1>at Blackmammalogists dot com. There's a link to that in

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<v Speaker 1>the show notes. Get excited so we talk about that.

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<v Speaker 1>We also talk about this biologist's work on animals of

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds, especially the furry milky ones, and we chat

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<v Speaker 1>about fieldwork, plata pi furriness and parenting styles and nipples

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<v Speaker 1>of every stripe. And I was so excited to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to her that I honestly was kind of speechless and

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<v Speaker 1>just starstruck, and I just wanted to get out of

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<v Speaker 1>the way and listen because she's just wonderful and insightful

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<v Speaker 1>and informative. So please get ready to meet one of

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<v Speaker 1>the world's coolest professors and mammalogists, doctor Danielle and Lee.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm ready to stick.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, Okay, of course I want to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>you about all these warm blooded, furry little creatures. The

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<v Speaker 1>first thing I'll have you do, if it's okay, if

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<v Speaker 1>you could just say your first and last name, so

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<v Speaker 1>I make sure I pronounce it right and pronounced thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>So my name is Danielle ian Lee, and my pronouns

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<v Speaker 2>that she and her. But I also just don't care, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>And I'll tell you why. So in the process of

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<v Speaker 2>doing my research in Tanzania and learning Swahili, there are

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<v Speaker 2>no ginger pronouns in Swahili. Really, they don't exist. They

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<v Speaker 2>just don't exist. Like because I kept asking and I

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<v Speaker 2>was I realized that because people who speak English would

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<v Speaker 2>constantly get their pronouns mixed up. They would say he

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<v Speaker 2>and she interchangeably, and I thought it was, oh, it's

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<v Speaker 2>because they don't know English very well. No, it's because

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<v Speaker 2>those words are the equivalent. He and she are equivalent

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<v Speaker 2>and Swahili because he and she don't exist. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>what it's just like. So this is all a construct matter.

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<v Speaker 1>That's so beautiful, that's so good to know. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is the first time I've asked that up top because

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<v Speaker 1>I had a listener say, hey, could you just start

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<v Speaker 1>asking because that kind of normalizes it and it yes, but.

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<v Speaker 2>I also just realized it's a very English thing. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a very well, it's a language. It's not just English,

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<v Speaker 2>but I suppose it also matters in Latin languages as well. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but like that's very language specific. This doesn't mean anything

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<v Speaker 2>in parts of the world where there's no gendered pronouns

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<v Speaker 2>at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that makes my day. Bye bye, thank you. That

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<v Speaker 1>Queriana on Twitter, whose partner goes by they them Yanna

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<v Speaker 1>says that CIS folks can help normalize using and asking

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<v Speaker 1>pronouns and that the acknowledgment really means something. And I

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<v Speaker 1>would never have learned that about Swahili. So he says,

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<v Speaker 1>can you tell me a little bit about your research

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<v Speaker 1>that you that you did in Tanzania.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I study giant pouched rats, but those who get

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<v Speaker 2>the reference Princess Bright Huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I study r o U s tes rodents of unusual size.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think they exist. They are large rotents that

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<v Speaker 2>look like rats. They're not rats proper. They look like rotents.

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<v Speaker 2>They are rotents. They rat like rotents. And I'm holding

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<v Speaker 2>my hands up across my body, but anywhere from nose

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<v Speaker 2>to tip of tail. They can go anywhere from two

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<v Speaker 2>and a half one and a half to two and

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<v Speaker 2>a half to three feet long.

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like the first time that you saw one?

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<v Speaker 2>The first time I finally got the Sea one, I

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<v Speaker 2>was just like, I can't believe this thing. It's big.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the size of a cat, like a nice sized

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<v Speaker 2>house cat. Like they're cat guys. They're very strong, they're

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<v Speaker 2>very fast, they are smart. They are the rats. They

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<v Speaker 2>are the rats of them.

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<v Speaker 1>We can no longer than him. That's what happens.

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<v Speaker 2>We know too much. They are they they know and

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that. So the first ones we got, we

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<v Speaker 2>got a shippment from Ghana and we house them in

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<v Speaker 2>rabbit cages. That's what we house them in.

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<v Speaker 1>Hutches.

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<v Speaker 2>Big. Yeah, they're that big. We house them in rabbit cages.

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<v Speaker 2>They have a lot of dexterity in their hand, like

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<v Speaker 2>they can grab things very easily. And when we get them,

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<v Speaker 2>we have to process them because they're actually you can't

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<v Speaker 2>they're not actually allowed in the United States. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>moratorium on shipping African rotents, and this particular road in

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<v Speaker 2>particular because in two thousand and three there was a

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<v Speaker 2>monkey pox outbreak in this rot and this species is

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<v Speaker 2>responsible for it. So they're on the no fly list.

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<v Speaker 2>So to get them, you got to have all special

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<v Speaker 2>permissions in your track past CDC, and we have to

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<v Speaker 2>do all these tests and submit them, and you have

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<v Speaker 2>to submit salava swabs to make sure that they don't

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<v Speaker 2>have monkey pos oof.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I know you're like, what's monkey pox? And it's

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<v Speaker 1>a virus. It was first discovered in captive monkeys in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifty eight, and in two thousand and three there

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<v Speaker 1>was a US outbreak that, according to the CDC, involved

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<v Speaker 1>forty seven confirmed and probable cases of monkey pox. They

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<v Speaker 1>were reported from six states. Sorry, the Midwest, it was

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<v Speaker 1>all you. And all those cases stemmed from prairie dogs

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<v Speaker 1>which were infected by Gambian pouched rats. Then an exotic

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<v Speaker 1>wildlife importer from Texas brought in here. Again like needing

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<v Speaker 1>a visual. So these pouched rats, they weighed like four pounds,

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<v Speaker 1>They averaged two to three feet long, some not including

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<v Speaker 1>their tails, and they have kind of big cute pink ears.

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<v Speaker 1>So imagine like a chihuahua with a long tail and

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<v Speaker 1>a mickey mouse hat, or like a possum. But the

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<v Speaker 1>rats just imagine huge rats.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember when it happened. So I'm assisting the

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<v Speaker 2>vet who's swabbing the back of their mouth their cheek pouches.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what they called pouch rats. They have cheek pouches

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<v Speaker 2>like hamsters. Oh and one of the rats, I swear

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<v Speaker 2>it looked him dead in the eye and he reached

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<v Speaker 2>with both hands and he glabbed the swab and yanked

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<v Speaker 2>it out his mouth. And everyone who was there was

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<v Speaker 2>me and it was a graduate student in the VET,

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<v Speaker 2>and we all looked at each other and said, did

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<v Speaker 2>anyone else just let this down? That just happened. It

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<v Speaker 2>looked him in his eye and yanked and looked at it,

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<v Speaker 2>yanked it out his mouth. I will forever remember that

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<v Speaker 2>and if and in my memory, that was the same

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<v Speaker 2>rat who escaped all he got out of the cage

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<v Speaker 2>all the time. He always escaped. Oh. They were really

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<v Speaker 2>good at removing their name cards so that they were

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<v Speaker 2>because at first, I I apologize now, but I thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was the animal care cleaning the cages. Then they

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<v Speaker 2>forgot to put their name tags back. Oh no, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, we can't have this. We got to

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<v Speaker 2>keep the name cards on. And if we come to

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<v Speaker 2>find out it wasn't It wasn't the staff at all.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the rats. They were removing their own cards,

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<v Speaker 2>they were removing their own water bottles. We had to

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<v Speaker 2>change a lot of our protocols and how we the

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<v Speaker 2>day to day husbandry of how you care for them.

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<v Speaker 2>They're debt. They're that different from regular rat. We have

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<v Speaker 2>to change the materials we use. We can't use glass

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<v Speaker 2>bottles because they're so good at flipping them out. They

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<v Speaker 2>were breaking these super industrial expensive pirates bottles.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>Every night, they were just breaking them because they would

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<v Speaker 2>slit them out and then they would use that little

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<v Speaker 2>hole to either reach their hand out and undo the cage,

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<v Speaker 2>or for the smaller ones, they would move their food

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<v Speaker 2>hutch because it slide in, and then they would use

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<v Speaker 2>that to escape out.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I asked what happens when they escape, and

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<v Speaker 1>she said, it's not like Monkey Pock's panic. Sirens go

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<v Speaker 1>off and there's mayhem. There are double doors for safety,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's certainly like a come on guys moment.

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<v Speaker 2>So at my last institution where we house them, which

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<v Speaker 2>was Cornell University, part of what we did we had

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<v Speaker 2>one that escape, so often, like we just got used

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<v Speaker 2>to it. We would just put hutches around the room

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<v Speaker 2>because what it is is they just go out on

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<v Speaker 2>these little johnts. They literally would go on jump. So

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<v Speaker 2>we would put just extra little hutches, which is just

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<v Speaker 2>it's a mailbox top. So imagine a mailbox thing with

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<v Speaker 2>out a door. That's their little housing hutch. We would

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<v Speaker 2>just put a couple of these in the room in

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<v Speaker 2>the corner, and then when the staff will come in

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<v Speaker 2>to do the daily checks, they just you just take

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<v Speaker 2>a peek in them. And the good news is, because

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<v Speaker 2>there's a handle on top, you can just if you're

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<v Speaker 2>very careful, just pick the hounch on up, open their

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<v Speaker 2>homecage and put it right back in. But yes, once

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<v Speaker 2>we get used to it, they get used to us,

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<v Speaker 2>they'll go into a hutch. Otherwise you got to get

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<v Speaker 2>out there and you got to catch them.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh how do you catch them.

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<v Speaker 2>When they're loose like that? I cornered them and grabbed

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<v Speaker 2>their tail. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. You did an awesome Ted talk talking

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<v Speaker 1>about these animals and how little was known about the

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<v Speaker 1>biology and so are you really having to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>figure out basically, what's the life cycle. What's a reproductive cycle?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you spending a lot of time in the field

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<v Speaker 1>with them?

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<v Speaker 2>I am, so I do the field work. So we

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<v Speaker 2>When this project first started, I was brought on board

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<v Speaker 2>and I was the start of doing all that. But

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<v Speaker 2>now the project has expanded, so I'm now and I

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<v Speaker 2>have a faculty position, so there's been additional posttos brought

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<v Speaker 2>on board. So this has been an expanding team effort,

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<v Speaker 2>so I wanted to make that clear. So a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the stuff I started just noting the questions and

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<v Speaker 2>the patterns of behavior. We've been able to pick this

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<v Speaker 2>work up by others and spread it out across multiple

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<v Speaker 2>teams now, so I'm excited about that. But yes, this

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<v Speaker 2>is exactly how it started. We didn't know anything and

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<v Speaker 2>we started from scratch. The first animals we got were

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<v Speaker 2>the ones from Ghana, which we only got four, which

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't enough to do any research. That just helped me

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<v Speaker 2>get used to the to the animals and handling them

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<v Speaker 2>all right.

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<v Speaker 1>So in the genus Chrysotomis, I think you've got your

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<v Speaker 1>Gambian pouch strat and as it turns out, three other

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<v Speaker 1>species with different variations, which doctor Lee encountered once she

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<v Speaker 1>started working with the ones in Tanzania, Boy, how they

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<v Speaker 1>did she but.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a different species. Oh and from my observations, haven't

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<v Speaker 2>handled both. They're different. They're different, they look different, they

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<v Speaker 2>have slightly different behaviors out the ones from Ghana. Because

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<v Speaker 2>I've never seen any interact with anything that big and fast.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, these are them, these guys are

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<v Speaker 2>there's some tough customers. You don't want to come along

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<v Speaker 2>that night. And when I got to Tanzania, I realized

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<v Speaker 2>the ones from Ghana were baby dolls.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 2>They were outright, just just snugly compared.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they're so smart and they're so dexterous. You are

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<v Speaker 1>able to research how they can be used to help

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<v Speaker 1>with finding landmines. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's actually a nonprofit does this. So they do

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<v Speaker 2>the training and they've worked with several academic teams from

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of all over.

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<v Speaker 1>But they do.

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<v Speaker 2>What they do is really basic operate conditioning, positive reinforcements,

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<v Speaker 2>and they trained them. Now, they don't work with wild animals,

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<v Speaker 2>so some of the history behind that is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in the early days trying to make it figured out.

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<v Speaker 2>They're working with wild ones because these are nuisance rodents.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's the thing I learned in doing it, because

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<v Speaker 2>I work in the wild with wild animals. I learned

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<v Speaker 2>that all the animals that have gone into the program,

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<v Speaker 2>they were captured originally tried to train, but then now

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<v Speaker 2>they just go into breeding. They're all nuisance animals that

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<v Speaker 2>are caught within the town because they were getting into

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<v Speaker 2>somebody's house or food stores or just vexing them in

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of way. Mm hmm. They're all nuisance animals. Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm hosted by the local university, Sokoenia University of

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<v Speaker 2>Agriculture that's in Tanzania, and my host department is the

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<v Speaker 2>Pest Management Center. And so just as the name would say,

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<v Speaker 2>they are pets.

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<v Speaker 1>It'd be like if we had a raccoon getting in

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<v Speaker 1>the garbage and then we're like, you know what, as

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<v Speaker 1>long as we gotcha, do you want to help us

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<v Speaker 1>find some land mines.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly how it works, landmink and help us diagnose

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<v Speaker 2>tuberculosis because that's also what they can do.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, and that's are they using like old faction for that?

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<v Speaker 2>All old faction, This is all old faction.

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<v Speaker 1>That just means smell. But I was trying to sound

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<v Speaker 1>more professional because underneath I was very giddy to be

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<v Speaker 1>having this conversation, if you must know.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, her postdoc, so the postoc that's at Cornell now,

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Angela Freeman. She's been doing some amazing again basic

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<v Speaker 2>biology and descriptive studies, looking at really focusing on their

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<v Speaker 2>old faction, and so she's really getting down to some

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<v Speaker 2>of the questions of the answers of how is it

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<v Speaker 2>they're so good at this. She's really doing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of that. So she's looked at old faction and then

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<v Speaker 2>because old faction, we know we can use it for

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<v Speaker 2>training for work. But then here's where the biology comes from.

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<v Speaker 2>And the ethologist in me is, what are they using

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<v Speaker 2>old faction from in the while? And it's likely for reproduction,

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<v Speaker 2>it's likely for social interactions, and so she's been beginning

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<v Speaker 2>to look at old faction from the reproductive point of view,

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<v Speaker 2>and the stuff that's come out so far it's just

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<v Speaker 2>what you would expect. It's like, oh, they're good at smelling,

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<v Speaker 2>so that they can identify who's receptive and who's not

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<v Speaker 2>receptive for mating mm hm.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's just like an extrasensory pheromone snooter looking around.

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<v Speaker 2>Looking around, so they use it for that. Very likely

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<v Speaker 2>they use it for finding food. And they already have

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<v Speaker 2>the evolutionary of mechanics for sniffing things out really well.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes sense that they've been really good at sniffing

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<v Speaker 2>out these other molecules related to either lung disease or TNT.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's essentially what's That's what applied science is is

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<v Speaker 2>using what we know about basic science, and you hone

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<v Speaker 2>in on it for applied science.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is a big deal because between fifteen to

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thousand people each year are killed or injured by

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<v Speaker 1>land mines, and our little rat friends are really great

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<v Speaker 1>at sniffing out the TNT plus are too light to

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<v Speaker 1>detonate the landmine, and they don't bond with their trainers

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<v Speaker 1>like dogs do, so they can move around to different

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<v Speaker 1>countries without getting emotionally but hurt. Now, Doctor Lee notes

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<v Speaker 1>that we know a lot about dogs, but not enough

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<v Speaker 1>about these rodents of practically dog size.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason why the like in my ted talk I

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<v Speaker 2>talked about that they put the applied science the organization

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<v Speaker 2>that trained them. They put the applied science in front

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<v Speaker 2>of the basic science and they had a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>trial and error and what and the reason why I

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<v Speaker 2>talk about that is because when we don't take our

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<v Speaker 2>time and invest in basic science, you'll lose a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of time. And that's what happened. It took them years

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<v Speaker 2>and years and years to kind of perfect their protocols.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're still working on perfecting your breeding protocols simply

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<v Speaker 2>because didn't understand what's their breeding ecology, what's their mating system?

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<v Speaker 2>So what I do? I studied them in the wild,

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<v Speaker 2>though I take trips now at this point when I'm

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<v Speaker 2>able to leave the country about once the year. The

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<v Speaker 2>other year really trying to find out where they live

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<v Speaker 2>and how they live, so finding in marketness, who lives there,

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<v Speaker 2>who's visiting there, what's tried to estimate their home ranges,

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<v Speaker 2>or who overlaps with whom. And this story is still

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<v Speaker 2>as much as I find out. I'm still figuring things out.

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<v Speaker 1>So one thing she's discovered in her research is that

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<v Speaker 1>depending on the age and the sex of these super

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<v Speaker 1>sniffer rodents, they use their space differently. Also, they like

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<v Speaker 1>to get down aug.

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<v Speaker 2>Many mammals, they're probably not monogamous, and that there's lots

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<v Speaker 2>of visitation and checking up on one another. So old

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<v Speaker 2>faction is very important. But then one of the things

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<v Speaker 2>that's always been an issue since I've began visiting there

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<v Speaker 2>since twenty twelve is the fact that if I were

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<v Speaker 2>looking at my data as far as age ages of

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<v Speaker 2>individuals are trapped, you never trap young ones. You never

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<v Speaker 2>trap babies. They don't come above ground. Oh, they don't

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<v Speaker 2>come above ground. And then when I'm talking to my host,

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<v Speaker 2>so that includes my host at the university, includes my

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<v Speaker 2>technical host. And so the person who I'm amazingly indentded

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<v Speaker 2>to is Shabane Lutea. So he's a he's a tech

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<v Speaker 2>at Pest Management Center, and he's truly the authority on

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<v Speaker 2>pouch rats. I just get to work with him. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>very very lucky and I get to codify and I

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<v Speaker 2>get to work with him. But he's taught me everything.

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<v Speaker 2>I know. He's the one who's caught every single animal

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<v Speaker 2>that has gone into that training program. Like he really

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<v Speaker 2>is that person. He was the one who as I'm

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<v Speaker 2>out with him catching animals for my research, that's when

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of started putting the story together. He's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>all these animals came from basically the equivalent of his backyard,

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<v Speaker 2>his backyard and throughout his neighborhood. So like I literally

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<v Speaker 2>can I spend I spend a lot of my time

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<v Speaker 2>on one street. One street is notorious contributed more to

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<v Speaker 2>saving lives and repatriating land from one whole street.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, which is a we would call it

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<v Speaker 1>a neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>So a neighborhood and moragirl, this working class neighborhood in

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<v Speaker 2>Tanzania has done more for that. Uh. But in the

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<v Speaker 2>in the process of doing that, in the process of

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<v Speaker 2>spending time with these families, in the process of them

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<v Speaker 2>letting me not just come in their house but trump

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<v Speaker 2>all through through their property, that really started awakening me

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<v Speaker 2>to thinking about so what does this research mean to them?

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<v Speaker 2>Like this is an animal that bothers them.

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<v Speaker 1>But doctor Lee says in their eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's nice and it's great that it saves lives.

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<v Speaker 2>But they're literally like, we've been catching rats for years

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<v Speaker 2>and giving them away or getting rid of them because

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<v Speaker 2>they're bothering us. When is this research going to mean

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<v Speaker 2>something to us? And that really stopped me in my

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<v Speaker 2>tracks and I started thinking about it. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>you're right, you know, I need. This research has to

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<v Speaker 2>matter now, and so trying to understand their habits and

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<v Speaker 2>what makes them good at exploiting these things is now.

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<v Speaker 2>Is now what I'm focused on, specifically, trying to understand

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<v Speaker 2>their distribution and their movement patterns such that we can

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<v Speaker 2>come up with solutions to help people to either divert

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<v Speaker 2>these animals from coming into the houses or coming into

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<v Speaker 2>their property. But it's interesting, despite all of that, folks

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<v Speaker 2>don't they're not overwhelmingly antagonistic. Their feelings aren't overwhelmingly antagonistic.

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<v Speaker 2>Like they'll say they bother me, they vexed me, could

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<v Speaker 2>you do something about it please, But like it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>come off as you know, I'm ready. It's not like

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<v Speaker 2>the grounds keeper up and they have every right for.

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<v Speaker 1>It to be by full by enemy is an animal

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<v Speaker 1>in order to conquer him, I have to think.

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<v Speaker 2>This is what I'm learning. So this I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>be very clear, this is what I'm learning as as

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<v Speaker 2>an American, as a Western scientist doing science in a

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<v Speaker 2>place where people have a historical and indigenous relationship to

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<v Speaker 2>an animal, Like I really believe that's a very Western

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<v Speaker 2>way of thinking of it. Like this idea that you

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<v Speaker 2>have to that human wildlife conflict have to all be

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<v Speaker 2>contentious or people have to feel antagonistic against it just

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<v Speaker 2>because there's a conflict. I really, I'm really beginning to

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<v Speaker 2>think that is a construct that we've created because we

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<v Speaker 2>compartmentalize ourselves outside of nature so much. Yeah and so yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it vexes them, but they also you know, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>a deal breaking. In other words, people haven't picked up

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<v Speaker 2>and moved, you know, you know, and they need So

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes it comes down to what better resources can we

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<v Speaker 2>provide for people? So some of it is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if we have better resources an infrastructure for how we

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<v Speaker 2>built our houses or the foundations, what materials are available

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<v Speaker 2>to people for laying the foundation of their home, it

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<v Speaker 2>could some of these some of these issues could be

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<v Speaker 2>addressed for that it won't fix all of them. Or

419
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.359
<v Speaker 2>it could come down to if we had infrastructure grants

420
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:22.599
<v Speaker 2>so that more people had indoor plumbing, because they usually

421
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.680
<v Speaker 2>I found them accessing near the we would call it

422
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:29.599
<v Speaker 2>an outhouse, so they're they're toilet. Well, if folks have

423
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:34.079
<v Speaker 2>indoor plumbing, this isn't an issue anymore. I've come to

424
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.559
<v Speaker 2>realize there's so many different ways to think about this

425
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:39.960
<v Speaker 2>and some of it just comes down to if we're

426
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:45.880
<v Speaker 2>just sharing, you know, intellectual capital resources with one another

427
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.200
<v Speaker 2>in different parts of the world.

428
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.480
<v Speaker 1>And what about you? Growing up? Were you someone that

429
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.480
<v Speaker 1>was out in nature a lot. Were you looking at

430
00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:00.480
<v Speaker 1>particularly mammals or lizards, or bugs or flowers. When did

431
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.039
<v Speaker 1>you kind of start to really appreciate wild life.

432
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I always liked I was an outside kid, so I

433
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.480
<v Speaker 2>grew up outside. My mom was worked in parks and

434
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:10.880
<v Speaker 2>w reck so I got to go. I went to

435
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.759
<v Speaker 2>work with her every day. So like childcare was a

436
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:19.400
<v Speaker 2>minimal thing. I got to hang out in tow So

437
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.160
<v Speaker 2>I spent my days outside on the park, outside the park,

438
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.559
<v Speaker 2>in the front yard, backyard. This is I'm also Jenet,

439
00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:27.920
<v Speaker 2>So you know, kids were expected to go outside and

440
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.000
<v Speaker 2>just play, just go figure it out. Yeah, and so

441
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:35.119
<v Speaker 2>I liked I've always liked animals. I was that kid

442
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.079
<v Speaker 2>bringing stuff home. I really was. I've been a little

443
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:44.160
<v Speaker 2>bit more attentive to the to the cute furries. I

444
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.319
<v Speaker 2>tried to have a bird once that didn't go so well.

445
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.680
<v Speaker 2>I liked. I liked the furries. I didn't see my

446
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 2>first lizard until I was an adult almost. No, I

447
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 2>didn't see like reptilia. Wildlife was rare for me, like

448
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.039
<v Speaker 2>I think I saw a term once or twice, but

449
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.759
<v Speaker 2>turtles were always far away, so like they weren't part

450
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 2>of my my urban wildlife scape. So for me, it

451
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.240
<v Speaker 2>was all it was mammals, it was birds, and then

452
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.559
<v Speaker 2>it was insects. And I don't like insects. I've never

453
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.880
<v Speaker 2>been planning, that's my no go. But the cute furries

454
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the q first, absolutely, And I was always asking questions

455
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.599
<v Speaker 2>like I've never not been asking questions about why and

456
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.799
<v Speaker 2>how and what explain that to me? And I was

457
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:36.200
<v Speaker 2>I was just consumed nature programs, like if it was

458
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.559
<v Speaker 2>an animal show on, it was like I was watching it,

459
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:42.119
<v Speaker 2>like I'm gonna watch all the animal shows everything. And

460
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.519
<v Speaker 2>so that's really what did it for me.

461
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.279
<v Speaker 1>At what point did you know that you were going

462
00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:48.000
<v Speaker 1>to become a scientist? What was that path?

463
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Like, I didn't know I was going to become a

464
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 2>scientist until I was in the middle of doing a master's.

465
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Really I didn't know. I did not understand and how

466
00:25:56.759 --> 00:25:59.720
<v Speaker 2>that path back to the whole always asking questions I

467
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.240
<v Speaker 2>start of the project, which wasn't even my thesis. I

468
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:05.119
<v Speaker 2>wasn't even trying to get a thesis. I was just

469
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:06.880
<v Speaker 2>taking classes because I wanted to be I thought I

470
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.240
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be a veterinarian and I needed to improve

471
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.559
<v Speaker 2>my GPA because I had applied in undergrad and didn't

472
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:15.759
<v Speaker 2>get in. So I was writing papers and kind of

473
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.079
<v Speaker 2>diving deeper into what we call the theory behind biology

474
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.000
<v Speaker 2>as opposed to just the facts and the history of discovery.

475
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.039
<v Speaker 2>And my professor told me, he's like, you ask a

476
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:28.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of good questions. I'm like, because I'm always asking questions,

477
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:30.839
<v Speaker 2>but I was asking questions from the point of view

478
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted someone to tell me the answer because

479
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I was certain those answers existed. I just didn't know

480
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.400
<v Speaker 2>where they were or what the answers were. And it

481
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:43.519
<v Speaker 2>was in the process of taking these classes I realized, oh,

482
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:45.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these questions haven't been asked. It's a

483
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.480
<v Speaker 2>great question. And so he started me on a project

484
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:50.680
<v Speaker 2>based on one of the papers I wrote in class.

485
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.680
<v Speaker 2>It was an animal animal communication and cognition. That was

486
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that was my aha. That was the beginning of kind

487
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:01.160
<v Speaker 2>of leading me on this page. And he was like,

488
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.440
<v Speaker 2>this paper can be a project, and he outlined how

489
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>he could be a project. So I started working with

490
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.319
<v Speaker 2>him just on a research project, still not a thesis.

491
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.079
<v Speaker 2>I think I had imagine it with birds because it

492
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.480
<v Speaker 2>was all just I was just writing hypothetical papers like

493
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:18.079
<v Speaker 2>imagine this and imagine that. And he worked with fil

494
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:20.200
<v Speaker 2>mice vole and so he's like, we can do this

495
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:23.000
<v Speaker 2>project with the animals. I work trying to ask if

496
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.319
<v Speaker 2>there's different levels of communication, if there's synonymous signaling. And

497
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, you know, I was following alone.

498
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.160
<v Speaker 2>And so I started the project and I started getting

499
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.960
<v Speaker 2>into it. And it was in the middle of that

500
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.799
<v Speaker 2>project that I was like, oh, this is what the

501
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:42.160
<v Speaker 2>scientific method is for.

502
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh how wonderful is that? Okay, get ready for some

503
00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 1>more inspirational goosebumps.

504
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:50.839
<v Speaker 2>I really got into it and it hit me. I

505
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 2>was like, I don't need anyone to answer my questions

506
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:57.559
<v Speaker 2>for me anymore. I can answer my own questions. That

507
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.599
<v Speaker 2>was when I decided to be a scientist. And I

508
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:03.079
<v Speaker 2>literally I had an application in pre vet school and

509
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.519
<v Speaker 2>I withdrew it. Oh my gosh, and I was just

510
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>and I got a call from them because I had

511
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:09.920
<v Speaker 2>interview with them. It was my top choice school, so

512
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:13.200
<v Speaker 2>they knew me because I interviewed twice, and they were like,

513
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.319
<v Speaker 2>just just get your scores in. You're you're good, You're good.

514
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.759
<v Speaker 2>We've seen your progress this time. We think it's it.

515
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.839
<v Speaker 2>They were like, without saying you're guaranteed, but they were like,

516
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.359
<v Speaker 2>we promise you it looks really good for you this time.

517
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:30.119
<v Speaker 2>And I was like no. They were like, but you're

518
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:32.119
<v Speaker 2>really I say, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna take my

519
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.759
<v Speaker 2>chances in a fly for PhD. They're like what I

520
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:36.559
<v Speaker 2>was like, I want to be I want to research

521
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:39.000
<v Speaker 2>animal behavior. I realized this is what I've always wanted

522
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to do. I just didn't know this was a job

523
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.759
<v Speaker 2>that I could do. I didn't know science was like

524
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.759
<v Speaker 2>I knew science, but I only thought knew in my

525
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>own life from a very applied, practical point of view,

526
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:55.119
<v Speaker 2>like to help people to fix things, to solve a problem.

527
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:59.160
<v Speaker 2>I didn't understand and know that basic research wasn't even

528
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:02.559
<v Speaker 2>was even a Vie pathway. And I didn't really like,

529
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:05.799
<v Speaker 2>this is how weird it was. I was in college,

530
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:09.240
<v Speaker 2>loved college. Did not put together one in one that

531
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:13.599
<v Speaker 2>my college professors were researchers.

532
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Right, No, I completely understand, like they're you know when

533
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.000
<v Speaker 1>you go to elementary school. In high school, they're there

534
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:22.960
<v Speaker 1>to teach you. So when you go to college, they're

535
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.440
<v Speaker 1>just there to teach you harder stuff. And then yeah,

536
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.440
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't click that they're also publishing papers and continuing

537
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:31.880
<v Speaker 1>their ongoing staff right.

538
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, and that's that's why I was like, oh,

539
00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:38.559
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, wait, you get paid to watch

540
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:41.920
<v Speaker 2>animals all day. I want I want in on that.

541
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:45.079
<v Speaker 2>I want in on that. And it was in the

542
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 2>middle of it was and that's when I went did

543
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.559
<v Speaker 2>the paperwork. I was like, I want to get a thesis.

544
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna do the thesis now, and I'm going to

545
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:53.799
<v Speaker 2>apply for PhD. And I was like, I want to

546
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>be a college professor, because then I understood that a

547
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:02.079
<v Speaker 2>professor was someone who not only taught college classes. Is

548
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the person who teaches college classes and trains students in

549
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.480
<v Speaker 2>science mm hm, And so I was like, that's what

550
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:12.200
<v Speaker 2>I want to do. So yeah, I didn't know. I

551
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't understand that I could be No one wanted to

552
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.119
<v Speaker 2>be a scientist until I was in my master's.

553
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.359
<v Speaker 1>I think that's amazing. Were there any any movies about

554
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.079
<v Speaker 1>scientists or about mammals or rodents at all? That really

555
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>get it right or wrong. I know you mentioned the

556
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:32.319
<v Speaker 1>Princess Bride, which is burned in all of our minds,

557
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:35.920
<v Speaker 1>or any myths about scientists that you'd want to debunk.

558
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:39.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh, most of the movies don't get it right. Yeah,

559
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 2>most of them don't get it right. So I feel

560
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:46.559
<v Speaker 2>like I wouldn't even want to use my time.

561
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Just know they don't get it right.

562
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Most of them don't get it right.

563
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what about mammals. We're mammals, but so are pouched

564
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:00.640
<v Speaker 1>rats and wolves and test mighty deals. Is there more

565
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>variation among mammals than say reptiles.

566
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:06.079
<v Speaker 2>And so now if we're going to look at the

567
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:10.759
<v Speaker 2>whole thing reptiles, big big unbrother, then of course they

568
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:13.880
<v Speaker 2>got the spread. They win. They wind up we're more

569
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.279
<v Speaker 2>weirder than you.

570
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:17.720
<v Speaker 1>That's a very good point.

571
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.200
<v Speaker 2>If we do it that way. But mammals are interesting.

572
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 2>So we have a little bit of everything. So we

573
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:28.759
<v Speaker 2>have the live birthers versus the not live birthers. And

574
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:32.480
<v Speaker 2>among the live births we have the fully developed versus

575
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.400
<v Speaker 2>the barely developed. Among those that do the fully developed,

576
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.400
<v Speaker 2>stay with Mama a long time, or I need you

577
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.960
<v Speaker 2>out the door as soon as possible. So this what

578
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I like to call diversity and investment strategy of the species,

579
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Like how much do you invest in it offspring to

580
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.680
<v Speaker 2>make sure they're you know, big and strong before they're

581
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.480
<v Speaker 2>out there on their own in it big widening world.

582
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:04.680
<v Speaker 2>It literally can range from ye years to moments. Yeah,

583
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:06.359
<v Speaker 2>years to moments.

584
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:12.799
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think that is? And what influences that?

585
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:14.799
<v Speaker 2>So it's a lot of things to influence that. Some

586
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.240
<v Speaker 2>of it is evolutionarily, like you know, just part of

587
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:20.359
<v Speaker 2>it is you got to work with what you got.

588
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.440
<v Speaker 2>So you know, if you're a certain type of animal,

589
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.799
<v Speaker 2>you're kind of locked into that strategy. So as humans,

590
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 2>we're locked into, you know, these long gestational periods of

591
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.519
<v Speaker 2>nine to ten months, we're locked into these long post

592
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.559
<v Speaker 2>birth periods of nourishment of at least two to three years.

593
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:42.839
<v Speaker 2>And even then just because they don't need to suckle

594
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:45.240
<v Speaker 2>milk anymore, they're not really out there. They you just

595
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.000
<v Speaker 2>can't set them free at seven, Yeah, just can't set

596
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:50.839
<v Speaker 2>them free. They won't make it. So we have this

597
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 2>so part of it is but as humans, like the

598
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.160
<v Speaker 2>fact that you're born a human, you're locked into that strategy.

599
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:58.119
<v Speaker 2>You just can't decide I want to be like a

600
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, I want to be a mama kangaroo, and

601
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:03.759
<v Speaker 2>I want to drop this egg in five days, and

602
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:06.799
<v Speaker 2>that's it. Like, it's nothing you can do about the Evolutionarily,

603
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:10.359
<v Speaker 2>you're locked into whatever you are because of your species.

604
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.279
<v Speaker 2>But part of it is evolution, but it's also ecology

605
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.720
<v Speaker 2>in other words, so where you are, the time you are,

606
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 2>how much space you have to do your business that

607
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:26.559
<v Speaker 2>make a living. All these inputs determine how you make

608
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:28.640
<v Speaker 2>a living and how will you live.

609
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:33.200
<v Speaker 1>So all these different evolutionary pressures, like if you're dodging

610
00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:37.480
<v Speaker 1>predators constantly, or if you gorge food and then store

611
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:39.839
<v Speaker 1>it really well, or if you have a fast metabolism,

612
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:43.640
<v Speaker 1>those will affect your internal furnace. And if you're like

613
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.160
<v Speaker 1>I need to know more about thermophysiology, definitely listen to

614
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.759
<v Speaker 1>the thermophysiology episode of Ologies with doctor Shane Campbell Staton.

615
00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.839
<v Speaker 1>His episode is amazing. Also check out his podcast The

616
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:57.839
<v Speaker 1>Biology of Superheroes, which is so good. Okay, but yes,

617
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.200
<v Speaker 1>evolutionary pressures and hot blood.

618
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:06.000
<v Speaker 2>All these different strategies determine a lot of stuff. So,

619
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:10.079
<v Speaker 2>like going back to comparing birds and mammals, so we're

620
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>both warm blooded and so another in order for gestation

621
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:16.280
<v Speaker 2>of the risk for your babies to develop really really well.

622
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.320
<v Speaker 2>And this is across our species, even for reptiles. You

623
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.639
<v Speaker 2>gotta have that right temperature. It literally has to cook.

624
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.280
<v Speaker 2>When we say it's been in the other has to cook.

625
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.519
<v Speaker 2>It has to cook, and it has to cook at

626
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:32.159
<v Speaker 2>the right temperature. Too hot, too cold, you mess up

627
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.079
<v Speaker 2>the whole recipe. Nothing's gonna nothing is not gonna happen.

628
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:37.679
<v Speaker 2>But there's a few different ways of doing it. So

629
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of reptiles they drop their eggs, they put

630
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:43.000
<v Speaker 2>it in the store, they cover it up, they do

631
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.119
<v Speaker 2>a little kiss, throw it up to the sky and

632
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 2>be like, hope it works out. Like mama, reptiles like,

633
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I did a little temperature check. This ground is about right,

634
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 2>and I know I'm wouna be gone for forever because

635
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.440
<v Speaker 2>I ain't gonna never see you again. This stays. Literally,

636
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.920
<v Speaker 2>kiss up to the sky and I'm out. So that's

637
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.760
<v Speaker 2>like like turtles. Birds on the other hand, are like,

638
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I still gotta get this temperature right,

639
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.880
<v Speaker 2>but I still need to be able to move a

640
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 2>little bit here and there to go get some more food.

641
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Because carrying on these eggs they're heavy. They're heavy female animals.

642
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.280
<v Speaker 2>When they're grabbed or when they're sitting on the nest,

643
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.280
<v Speaker 2>they gotta be careful because it makes them easy pickings

644
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:29.440
<v Speaker 2>for predators. So that's the reason why you know, Mama

645
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.639
<v Speaker 2>turtle holds on to those eggs as long as she can. Yeah,

646
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:35.039
<v Speaker 2>she incubates them and cooks them out. The wise, she's like,

647
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm too slow. I'm gonna get gobbled up by these

648
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:39.800
<v Speaker 2>sharks or whatever else is out here in the water.

649
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:44.679
<v Speaker 2>I gotta drop these eggs and lighten my load. Mama

650
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 2>bird is very similar, but she's like, you know what,

651
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:49.599
<v Speaker 2>I can kind of get up and move a little bit.

652
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 2>So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make this

653
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.440
<v Speaker 2>really nice nest. I'm gonna insulate it as much as possible.

654
00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:57.960
<v Speaker 2>If there's a partner involved, we'll take turns sitting on

655
00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.159
<v Speaker 2>it and keeping it warm. But like, they have to

656
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.400
<v Speaker 2>be careful with that too. If they stay gone too long,

657
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:06.119
<v Speaker 2>that throws the temperature off back to the cooking. Like, oh,

658
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:11.159
<v Speaker 2>that's the recipe of what happens in mammals is you

659
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.920
<v Speaker 2>know what, I need to be able to move and

660
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.320
<v Speaker 2>I need to be able to keep the temperature going.

661
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.960
<v Speaker 2>So what female mammals are able to do is they're

662
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.199
<v Speaker 2>able to keep their babies with them at all time.

663
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.800
<v Speaker 2>They know that temperature is going to be right, They're

664
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna go where they go. There's still some trade offs

665
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:34.960
<v Speaker 2>and loss of movement and dexterity, but compared to other species,

666
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.760
<v Speaker 2>like female mammals are able to still get quite a

667
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:42.039
<v Speaker 2>bit done even though they're pregnant up until the last day.

668
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:44.360
<v Speaker 2>So that's why some have strategies of sitting still in

669
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:48.679
<v Speaker 2>the end, but they think about cats. They stay hunting, yeah,

670
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.719
<v Speaker 2>till near the end, you know. So that's one of

671
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:55.599
<v Speaker 2>the advantages. So, like we have these trade offs, but

672
00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:00.039
<v Speaker 2>like that temperature control is really important. And what we

673
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 2>see all these three very dramatic strategies for that temperature

674
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.960
<v Speaker 2>control across the three main groups of vertebrates. Drop them off,

675
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:14.079
<v Speaker 2>wish for the best, Yeah, drop them off, but keep

676
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.320
<v Speaker 2>up with them. But if things get real reobyed, I'll

677
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:21.199
<v Speaker 2>bug out and I'll start all over again. Or this

678
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 2>we are all, we in this together. That's the mammal

679
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:29.679
<v Speaker 2>that we are in this together. I got you when

680
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:30.199
<v Speaker 2>you got me.

681
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I have so many questions from listeners

682
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.039
<v Speaker 1>that know that you're coming on the show. So yeah,

683
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:40.639
<v Speaker 1>I announced that you're coming on, and there one's like, ah,

684
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:42.480
<v Speaker 1>so I could ask it, but I would rather let

685
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:43.079
<v Speaker 1>that ask it.

686
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

687
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, We're gonna let those questions cook a second

688
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:50.440
<v Speaker 1>longer while we take a quick break to hear about

689
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.920
<v Speaker 1>sponsors in the show who enable us to make a

690
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:56.360
<v Speaker 1>donation to a cause of theologists choosing. And this week,

691
00:37:56.360 --> 00:38:00.360
<v Speaker 1>doctor Lee chowse some link. That's Science, Engineering and Math Link,

692
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.760
<v Speaker 1>which is a nonprofit. It was found in two thousand

693
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 1>and five by Tuka T. Smith in Atlanta, and SemLink

694
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.840
<v Speaker 1>promotes student achievement and career exploration in math and science

695
00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:15.159
<v Speaker 1>while increasing student exposure to STEM communities and their mission

696
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:19.039
<v Speaker 1>is unveiling potential through exposure. So to learn more or

697
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:23.320
<v Speaker 1>to donate yourself, you can see semsuccess dot org. There's

698
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.400
<v Speaker 1>a link to them in the show notes. So a

699
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:28.559
<v Speaker 1>donation went to them in doctor Danielle and Lee's name.

700
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to some sponsors of the show who you may

701
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:36.639
<v Speaker 1>hear about. Now, okay, your questions this was the most

702
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:41.840
<v Speaker 1>asked question y'all patrons Ashley M. Gelhaus, Lauren Krupens, Asia Jaeger,

703
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Ellen Skilton, Clint Herbert, Alia Meers, hardikem Michael McLeod, Attie Cappello,

704
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.079
<v Speaker 1>Madeline Winter and first time question asker Miranda Chaves, who

705
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:55.360
<v Speaker 1>wrote in simply platypus man, What the fuck? What is

706
00:38:55.519 --> 00:39:00.400
<v Speaker 1>happening with the platypus? Natalie Landon Brandts is first question

707
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:05.119
<v Speaker 1>asker essentially says like, why are they so weird? Do

708
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 1>they even have nipples? They've got eggs and venom, but

709
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.280
<v Speaker 1>they're a mammal. What's happening?

710
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:15.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? All right, So platypuses of mammals because they meet

711
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:18.199
<v Speaker 2>the what I call the base criterion of what makes

712
00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:21.920
<v Speaker 2>a mammal and mammal, and that is they make nourishment

713
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:29.079
<v Speaker 2>from memory glands. But they don't have nipples. What so

714
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:32.079
<v Speaker 2>you would think nipples, So you can have memory glands

715
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:34.760
<v Speaker 2>without nipples. So what happens with the platypuses? They have

716
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.280
<v Speaker 2>tufts of hair. So we think milk glands are actually

717
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.239
<v Speaker 2>just special sebaceous glands, those special little glands that hang

718
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>out around here anyway. Mm hmm, So that's what we

719
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:48.599
<v Speaker 2>think memory glands are. Still deep research needed to figure

720
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:49.679
<v Speaker 2>that out to be honest.

721
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:50.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

722
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.400
<v Speaker 2>So they make nourishment still, they make a milk, but

723
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:56.719
<v Speaker 2>they don't have nipples, and so basically the babies just

724
00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:59.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of suckle on little tufts of hair.

725
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.840
<v Speaker 1>A little like little cowlyx. Just milkshake cowlyx, yeah and

726
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:06.760
<v Speaker 1>find out.

727
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they just yeah. So yeah. So they're what

728
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:13.880
<v Speaker 2>we would call on the evolutionary tree, they're like high up,

729
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.119
<v Speaker 2>so they're really in between. Like they are a really

730
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:21.719
<v Speaker 2>good example of that that bridge of that connection to

731
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.280
<v Speaker 2>our other vertebrate cousins like the birds and the reptiles

732
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:27.239
<v Speaker 2>that we mentioned that I mentioned before, because they have

733
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:30.360
<v Speaker 2>that kind of they have so many traits that are

734
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.760
<v Speaker 2>very bird slash reptilian like mm hmm.

735
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:37.199
<v Speaker 1>But they have eggs, they lay eggs, They do lay eggs,

736
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.840
<v Speaker 1>and so you don't have to have live birth to

737
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:40.400
<v Speaker 1>be a mammal.

738
00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:45.119
<v Speaker 2>No, the drop dead criteria is do you make milk

739
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:49.280
<v Speaker 2>for memory glinds. That's where the word comes from, mammal mammary.

740
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:51.440
<v Speaker 1>So it doesn't matter if you drop some eggs or

741
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:55.400
<v Speaker 1>have a bill, it doesn't I gotta I have to

742
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:57.960
<v Speaker 1>apply to pus expert on because there are a lot

743
00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:59.920
<v Speaker 1>of people that are just convinced they're not even real.

744
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:02.960
<v Speaker 2>So I can't understand thinking that.

745
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:08.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Platypus says they're real and they're spectacular. Also,

746
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Platypus experts, watch your dms because I'm onto you. This

747
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.679
<v Speaker 1>next question, by the way, was just begging for the

748
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:19.119
<v Speaker 1>drama of the superlative and was asked by an over

749
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Colleen Selwood, Alia Myers, and Adam Weaver. A lot of

750
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.519
<v Speaker 1>folks just want to know if you have a favorite mammal.

751
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:28.039
<v Speaker 2>I do so when I was younger, Like I love like,

752
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I love wools and dogs. I am a dog person.

753
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:33.159
<v Speaker 2>I like them all, but I do like dogs.

754
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

755
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.719
<v Speaker 2>My favorite to brag on, though, hm, my favorite to

756
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:41.039
<v Speaker 2>brag on are all like mustard its like I love.

757
00:41:41.079 --> 00:41:45.559
<v Speaker 2>They're the bad asses of the entire animal Those the weasels, weasels,

758
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 2>honey badgers, I love them. They just regularly take on

759
00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:55.360
<v Speaker 2>animals fifty times their size. I like to call them.

760
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:58.320
<v Speaker 2>They're there. Ain't never skied, they never ski.

761
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:02.599
<v Speaker 1>There're spitfires there spitfires.

762
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:04.760
<v Speaker 2>They don't come lets a stymph of you.

763
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Parrots and weasels and just yeah, I feel you on that. Yeah,

764
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:16.320
<v Speaker 1>that's amazing. Let's see so so many questions. I'm skipping

765
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.559
<v Speaker 1>a lot of questions about platypuses because they were all

766
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:21.119
<v Speaker 1>under the same that's neat.

767
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I love that so many people have so many questions.

768
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I know.

769
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:29.719
<v Speaker 1>Pie and Aliat Myers is the first time question asker

770
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:31.920
<v Speaker 1>it wants to know. Are there any mammals that can't

771
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 1>make facial expressions? Can most mammals make facial expressions? Is

772
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:36.880
<v Speaker 1>that how they communicate?

773
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Partly many of those that use visuals, so what we

774
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:44.719
<v Speaker 2>call facial expressions, that's that's a lot of eye interpretation.

775
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:46.880
<v Speaker 2>But what many of them are able to do is

776
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:50.400
<v Speaker 2>that there's a lot of dexterity around their their muzzle

777
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.960
<v Speaker 2>and their nose, and they have a lot of movement

778
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:58.559
<v Speaker 2>around their ears and around their eyes, and so what

779
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:01.719
<v Speaker 2>we would call facial expressions, they actually do use a

780
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:04.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of being able to manipulate those muscles for a

781
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:08.559
<v Speaker 2>lot of animal communication within their specie. So we have

782
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.400
<v Speaker 2>what's called graded signals or discrete signals, So like ears up,

783
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.039
<v Speaker 2>ears back, they all communicate just slight tweaks of how

784
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:20.679
<v Speaker 2>they're you know, of information to conspecifics or even to

785
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:24.239
<v Speaker 2>other animals. That they live in these really large communities

786
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and they need to let things know, especially for animals

787
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:31.239
<v Speaker 2>that are communicating with predators, like not today, I'm gonna

788
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:31.920
<v Speaker 2>put off a fight.

789
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>What is that expression on your face?

790
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:41.199
<v Speaker 2>But what we call facial expressions, that's actually a bit

791
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:45.199
<v Speaker 2>more of an interpretation of us because of us as people.

792
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:48.880
<v Speaker 1>And so we're looking at it because we have facial expressions.

793
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.239
<v Speaker 1>So we kind of put that onto other animals.

794
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.800
<v Speaker 2>We do. But yeah, but do they have this dexterity

795
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:57.400
<v Speaker 2>and the muscles in their face? Absolutely?

796
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Alan Skelton wants to know if I have so many

797
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.480
<v Speaker 1>mammals evolved to cooperate or stay in large groups as

798
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:05.519
<v Speaker 1>opposed to other animals.

799
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 2>So sociality is really common in a lot of species

800
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.519
<v Speaker 2>that we see that we attribute a lot of high

801
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:17.800
<v Speaker 2>cognitive function to We see that, and that's because sociality

802
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 2>yields a lot of benefits. Think about it. You don't

803
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.320
<v Speaker 2>have to look for mate when it's time to mate.

804
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:27.760
<v Speaker 2>You can conserve your own physiological energy when it comes

805
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:32.079
<v Speaker 2>to keeping you warm the right temperature. Being around others

806
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:34.320
<v Speaker 2>is a really good way to exploit them for information

807
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:36.760
<v Speaker 2>and other resources. So I don't have to be really

808
00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.000
<v Speaker 2>good at hunting, I can let you be good at

809
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:42.920
<v Speaker 2>hunting and I come around and pick up scraps. So

810
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:46.039
<v Speaker 2>sociality has a lot of benefits. Now there are costs

811
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.599
<v Speaker 2>to it as well. So likelihood is spreading communicative diseases,

812
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:55.239
<v Speaker 2>whether it's like parasites or things like the main or

813
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:58.920
<v Speaker 2>even sexually transmitted diseases like you like, it's too many

814
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.000
<v Speaker 2>of us, and things bad things can be passed around

815
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:05.639
<v Speaker 2>really easily, or even sicknesses like what we're experiencing now,

816
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.079
<v Speaker 2>like with COVID among us. You know, sociality accounts against us.

817
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:12.159
<v Speaker 2>But so much of what we need to do to

818
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:17.559
<v Speaker 2>make a living requires, for many species, outright cooperation or

819
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:22.239
<v Speaker 2>even just passive cooperation. And if nothing else, we got

820
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to find each other, you know, in order to reproduce.

821
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:29.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true, unless you've got parthenogenesis going for you.

822
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>So here's the thing. We know that that can happen

823
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:39.920
<v Speaker 2>with some medical assistance. But if without medical advances, we're

824
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:42.960
<v Speaker 2>back to only working what I call an evolutionary two kit.

825
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:48.679
<v Speaker 2>Evolutionary two kit does not allow us to do a

826
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:53.199
<v Speaker 2>lot of things very very well for long without the

827
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:53.960
<v Speaker 2>aid of others.

828
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Right, someone I've read somewhere about thinking about everything that

829
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:01.519
<v Speaker 1>you have in your life, life, everything that you touch,

830
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:04.440
<v Speaker 1>whether it's like a you know, a shirt that you're

831
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:08.079
<v Speaker 1>wearing too, a glass that you're drinking out of, how

832
00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:11.960
<v Speaker 1>many human beings had to be involved in the process

833
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.480
<v Speaker 1>of that, whether or not you're drinking tea that came

834
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.559
<v Speaker 1>from somewhere else and someone had to grow it. And

835
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:20.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's so many people are involved in objects

836
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:24.280
<v Speaker 1>that you don't even think about facts.

837
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Facts.

838
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:28.800
<v Speaker 1>So even if you're alone, you're touched by others, but

839
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.400
<v Speaker 1>not like creepy like ghosts with bad boundaries, just metaphysically.

840
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:34.920
<v Speaker 1>We all affect each other and we're in this together.

841
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Mo Casey had a great question about life expectancy and

842
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:40.239
<v Speaker 1>why does a mouse have such a short one compared

843
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:43.000
<v Speaker 1>to a horse which lives for decades and is it

844
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:46.159
<v Speaker 1>just size? And speaking of which, with the pouched rat,

845
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:47.320
<v Speaker 1>how long do they live?

846
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:52.199
<v Speaker 2>All right? So starting with them, we know in captivity

847
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:54.559
<v Speaker 2>they can live seven to eight years.

848
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, Okay, we're.

849
00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Not sure how long I live in the wow because

850
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:04.039
<v Speaker 2>from what I can tell, I don't see anyone else

851
00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:06.519
<v Speaker 2>that's interested in tracking them in a while, So of

852
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the animals. I have tag fingers crossed. I keep finding them.

853
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:11.800
<v Speaker 2>So we usually whenever something lives for a long time

854
00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:14.840
<v Speaker 2>in captivity, we estimate about half that in a while

855
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.800
<v Speaker 2>because you know, there's no antibiotics in a while. Yeah,

856
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:23.320
<v Speaker 2>there's hunting, there's life. Yeah, things that happen. The reason

857
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:26.559
<v Speaker 2>why different things live a different times, it's not just

858
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:29.559
<v Speaker 2>about size. Size is a correlate with it, but it

859
00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:33.280
<v Speaker 2>comes down to what's happening with them physiologically, their metabolism,

860
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:38.400
<v Speaker 2>how long something takes. So being large enables you to

861
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:41.760
<v Speaker 2>avoid a lot of predators. So that's so big things

862
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.000
<v Speaker 2>don't have as many other things that can take them out.

863
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:46.920
<v Speaker 2>If you're not taken out, then you can live a

864
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>long time thereafter, assuming everything else in your body is

865
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:53.440
<v Speaker 2>in pretty good shape. You just got to get through

866
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:57.239
<v Speaker 2>that scary small period of your life. Ah, so small,

867
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:59.920
<v Speaker 2>so fragile. So that's one of the reasons. So once

868
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:03.920
<v Speaker 2>you get past that scary juvenile period, then you can

869
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:06.719
<v Speaker 2>pretty much live until what we call that natural death

870
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:12.199
<v Speaker 2>when your body just wears out. But little things live

871
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:14.559
<v Speaker 2>for a short period of time because part of it

872
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.599
<v Speaker 2>is their metabolism. Their metabolism is real fast they're they're

873
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 2>they're burning themselves up. We don't use that. That's not

874
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 2>technically what's happening, but that's just one way to envision

875
00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.760
<v Speaker 2>it from a lay position, is that they're they're always going.

876
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.760
<v Speaker 2>But the other thing that you got to keep in

877
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 2>mouth for things like mice is they don't tend to

878
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:36.039
<v Speaker 2>die of old age. Like we really take for granted

879
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.480
<v Speaker 2>as people that most things don't die of old age.

880
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:42.920
<v Speaker 1>They just are predated.

881
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:46.800
<v Speaker 2>On, predated on or you or you just kind of die,

882
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:48.719
<v Speaker 2>you just return to the earth in the arms of

883
00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 2>the angels. So that's but yeah, they do have a

884
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:58.960
<v Speaker 2>relatively shorter lifespan, Like so my small mice species can

885
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:03.280
<v Speaker 2>live one or two years. They don't tend to Yeah,

886
00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:05.960
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, but that's part of it. And so like

887
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:09.960
<v Speaker 2>basically you like you accumulate these effects and so longer

888
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:15.960
<v Speaker 2>lived animals, we tend to see what we call age

889
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.800
<v Speaker 2>related like disease, what we call natural causes of death,

890
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:23.719
<v Speaker 2>so things like you know, diabetes or heart disease or

891
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:29.079
<v Speaker 2>like later on set diseases either due to metabolism or structure,

892
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:32.800
<v Speaker 2>and animals that tend to be predated upon or die early,

893
00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:37.239
<v Speaker 2>those things just don't accumulate because they tend to die

894
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:41.199
<v Speaker 2>when they're still just in or just past the prime

895
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:43.480
<v Speaker 2>of life. And by prime, I mean like the height

896
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:46.440
<v Speaker 2>of reproductive life. So in other words, when you're at

897
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:49.400
<v Speaker 2>the height of having the most babies and even looking

898
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:53.039
<v Speaker 2>at people, old age is a relatively new thing for us.

899
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:58.199
<v Speaker 1>Living to be one hundred would not have happened without antibiotics.

900
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.960
<v Speaker 2>No, no, that's magic. Let's be honest. Yeah, we're the

901
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:05.119
<v Speaker 2>transport and talk to someone from two hundred years ago.

902
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:09.360
<v Speaker 2>One hundred years is magic. Yeah. The demography if you

903
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:12.320
<v Speaker 2>look at it, like fifty was considered old one hundred

904
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>years ago. Our fifty isn't our parents fifty? Yeah? Yeah,

905
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:20.039
<v Speaker 2>so like we technically so back when my mom was

906
00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:24.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, younger fifty five sixty seen. Oh even, like

907
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:26.320
<v Speaker 2>the image of what a fifty five sixty year old

908
00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:32.199
<v Speaker 2>look like is completely different. Like we started joking, you know, saying, oh,

909
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:36.719
<v Speaker 2>today's forty is thirty. Yeah, you know, starting with Demi Moore. Yeah,

910
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:41.159
<v Speaker 2>because she know she's defined. But that's actually becoming progressively

911
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:44.920
<v Speaker 2>true for our generations. We are a younger forty and

912
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.039
<v Speaker 2>fifty than our parents were. That's like you for sure.

913
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:52.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Oh just a side note, retirement communities start at

914
00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:57.239
<v Speaker 1>age fifty five, and Wilfred Brimley rest his recently dearly

915
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:01.119
<v Speaker 1>departed soul, was just eighteen thousand, five hundred and thirty

916
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.559
<v Speaker 1>days old when Cocun started filming, which is just fifty

917
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:05.199
<v Speaker 1>years old.

918
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:05.639
<v Speaker 2>Now.

919
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:09.119
<v Speaker 1>You can see this generational in Kongruty at the Twitter

920
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:13.239
<v Speaker 1>account Brimley line as they tweet out other celebrities who

921
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:18.559
<v Speaker 1>have crossed this age line, Matthew McConaughey, Will Smith, when Stefani,

922
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Lopez, Jay Z and the entire cast of friends

923
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:28.400
<v Speaker 1>are now older than Wilford Brimley was when he starred

924
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:32.320
<v Speaker 1>as an elderly curmudgeon in Cocun. So life man, it

925
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:36.000
<v Speaker 1>comes at you fast. Oh, Ferris Bueller crossed it eight

926
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:39.440
<v Speaker 1>years ago, but he looks good, right, Okay? Speaking of

927
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:43.079
<v Speaker 1>ancient things, this next one was asked by patrons Scott Sheldon,

928
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Meghan Walker, Vincent Heide, Fernando and Mark Chavs of a

929
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:49.679
<v Speaker 1>lot of patrons wanted to know, if it weren't for

930
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.320
<v Speaker 1>the asteroid wiping out the dinosaurs, do you think that

931
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:54.079
<v Speaker 1>mammals would have survived.

932
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:58.360
<v Speaker 2>To today now that had to happen for mammal evolution,

933
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:02.760
<v Speaker 2>like they like, that is a critical Like when I

934
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:07.559
<v Speaker 2>teach mammalogy, that's one of the one historical events that

935
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:10.840
<v Speaker 2>is critical. If it had not been for that, mammal

936
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.079
<v Speaker 2>evolution would have there were still mammals, but they would

937
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 2>have stayed small, they would have stayed in the ground.

938
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:20.960
<v Speaker 2>We would not have had a mammalian radiation that's what

939
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.119
<v Speaker 2>we call it. That's when the explosion, Like the mammals

940
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:26.519
<v Speaker 2>came above ground and they were able to diversify and

941
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:30.320
<v Speaker 2>form shape in species. If the dinosaurs had died, none

942
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:32.159
<v Speaker 2>of that would have happened. You would not be here

943
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:34.719
<v Speaker 2>if it had not been for the KT event.

944
00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Really, this is literally the first I've ever heard that.

945
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:39.039
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing.

946
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, said they had to go for us to flourish.

947
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Is that why there are say five thousand species of mammals,

948
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:50.920
<v Speaker 1>but like thirty thousand species of beetles.

949
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:53.199
<v Speaker 2>Insects have been around for a long time, so they've

950
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.039
<v Speaker 2>experienced some radiation as well. So there's been more mammals

951
00:52:57.079 --> 00:52:59.480
<v Speaker 2>than we lost some but what we call these radiation

952
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:03.480
<v Speaker 2>events then, so think of radiation as spread out, so

953
00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:07.039
<v Speaker 2>it's not just spread out physically geographically across the globe.

954
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.360
<v Speaker 2>But it also comes with this diversification and new form

955
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:15.360
<v Speaker 2>and type big events. So stochastic events are often the

956
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:18.480
<v Speaker 2>reason for radiations of any type across any type of

957
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.400
<v Speaker 2>organismal species, so that you need like this, like the

958
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:26.440
<v Speaker 2>spark that caused it. But they're not necessarily Beetles are

959
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:28.519
<v Speaker 2>just there was just a lot of them to begin with,

960
00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:31.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, just it's just a lot of.

961
00:53:33.320 --> 00:53:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Your favorite and you love.

962
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:40.360
<v Speaker 2>No, I do think most many beetles are pretty. They

963
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:42.440
<v Speaker 2>are beautiful, many of them, not all of them. Not

964
00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:44.599
<v Speaker 2>because roaches are technically beetles and I hate them.

965
00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, roaches are one. I love bugs, and roaches are

966
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:51.559
<v Speaker 1>one that I'm just like, huh uh, nope, nope, nope, Okay,

967
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:54.599
<v Speaker 1>just quick aside, bug nerds. I know you're like screaming

968
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:59.480
<v Speaker 1>into your windshield or your partner's face. Roaches aren't beetles technically,

969
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:02.880
<v Speaker 1>and yet yes, we hear you. You're correct. They're more

970
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:06.079
<v Speaker 1>closely related to termites. I did some light reading about it,

971
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:09.079
<v Speaker 1>but doctor Lee is here for mammalogy. This is not

972
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.519
<v Speaker 1>a cockroach episode. But also, don't make me dip my

973
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.000
<v Speaker 1>toe in the venn diagram between milk and roaches and

974
00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:19.360
<v Speaker 1>remind you that cockroach milk is a thing and it

975
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:22.679
<v Speaker 1>comes from one species of roaches who blurp out this

976
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:26.280
<v Speaker 1>substance that is being touted as a super food for humans.

977
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:27.159
<v Speaker 1>Are we done with this?

978
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:27.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

979
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Moving on, Courtney Ryan had a great question. Do you

980
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:33.000
<v Speaker 1>think there are any undiscovered mammals out there?

981
00:54:33.119 --> 00:54:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? Really there there are? Yeah, there are places where

982
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:40.079
<v Speaker 2>we're really not so undiscovered from the sense of Western science.

983
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely wow.

984
00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Let me see. I want to oh. First time question

985
00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:50.239
<v Speaker 1>asker MJ Kayla Queen, who says I love you both

986
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:54.199
<v Speaker 1>and is excited you're on your first time question. Asker says,

987
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I love mammals. Why are some people afraid of mice?

988
00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Do you think you know what?

989
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:03.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't speak for everyone. Are they afraid or are

990
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:07.519
<v Speaker 2>they startled? Because it just shocks you to see something scary? Huh?

991
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:12.079
<v Speaker 2>And so so I'm not afraid of rodents by any means.

992
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.280
<v Speaker 2>But if I catch something in the side of my

993
00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:17.159
<v Speaker 2>eye moving that I wasn't expecting, I'm going to jump.

994
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:20.960
<v Speaker 2>That's a very normal startle response. So I believe it's

995
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:25.639
<v Speaker 2>naturally be startled by them. But I wonder if this

996
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:32.239
<v Speaker 2>whole fear part isn't socially conditioned, because then we tell

997
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:35.000
<v Speaker 2>our stales we're supposed to be afraid of. Someone tells you, oh,

998
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.000
<v Speaker 2>that's a fear reaction as opposed to oh stop, what

999
00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:40.920
<v Speaker 2>is that? Let's figure it out. So I don't know

1000
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:43.079
<v Speaker 2>if a lot of people are truly afraid. I do

1001
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:44.679
<v Speaker 2>believe being startled as natural.

1002
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I think that's why some people are more afraid

1003
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.360
<v Speaker 1>of certain bugs too, because they're just faster, you.

1004
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Know, it's the startle, yes, and so for me and

1005
00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:57.639
<v Speaker 2>that's what I don't like them. They sneak up on me.

1006
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:02.760
<v Speaker 1>To h. Roaches are really fast, but like a pillbug,

1007
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.440
<v Speaker 1>no one's ever like, ah, what is it? You know?

1008
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:08.079
<v Speaker 2>You know what. I've played with roly Police as a

1009
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:11.599
<v Speaker 2>kid and I love them, right, so roll police I'm

1010
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:11.960
<v Speaker 2>okay with.

1011
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:16.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're so slow. A lot of people and I

1012
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.719
<v Speaker 1>will include this in aside, want to know what is

1013
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:22.000
<v Speaker 1>up with the variation and the number of nipples looking

1014
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:26.559
<v Speaker 1>at nipple conscious listeners Anthony Stoll, Elliot Warden, Jasmine MacLean,

1015
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:29.679
<v Speaker 1>and first time question asker Yaki Juaquin, So.

1016
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Hold up even in pouch rats I have counted, like

1017
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the females in my colony, some females have seven, some

1018
00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 2>have eight, some have six. Oh huh, so because that's

1019
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:43.960
<v Speaker 2>usually a very species specific thing, like that's one of

1020
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.719
<v Speaker 2>the things we could say, oh, this species has this

1021
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:48.840
<v Speaker 2>number of nipples, and that and that, and so we

1022
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:51.639
<v Speaker 2>were trying to figure out how can we differentiate let's say,

1023
00:56:51.639 --> 00:56:54.519
<v Speaker 2>the species that live in West Africa vocius those that

1024
00:56:54.639 --> 00:56:58.519
<v Speaker 2>lived in eastern and Central Africa. And some early one

1025
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:01.239
<v Speaker 2>or two papers were saying, oh, the West African ones

1026
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:05.599
<v Speaker 2>have six nipples and the East African ones have eight. Yeah,

1027
00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you for sure that is the jury

1028
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:12.800
<v Speaker 2>still out. I have counted animals. I've caught myself from

1029
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:17.679
<v Speaker 2>the exact same place, same species, and I've caught literally six,

1030
00:57:18.039 --> 00:57:21.559
<v Speaker 2>I've counted six to seven or eight nipples. I had

1031
00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:23.400
<v Speaker 2>some females with odd number of nipples.

1032
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, okay, marky Mark's got three and he's a dude.

1033
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:30.440
<v Speaker 1>So what's up with dude nipples?

1034
00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Third nipple? I'm not aware of that. You're not aware

1035
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:35.360
<v Speaker 2>of that? Is it true? Do you have a third nipple? Monk? Yes?

1036
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:39.440
<v Speaker 2>So you know just the carryovers? So like, so one

1037
00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:43.840
<v Speaker 2>there's some evolutionary biologists who say it is because males

1038
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:47.519
<v Speaker 2>either historically may have been able to produce milk back

1039
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:50.159
<v Speaker 2>in the day, like evolutionarily back in the day, and

1040
00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:54.119
<v Speaker 2>then it was lost, or it's just a physical vestige,

1041
00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:57.920
<v Speaker 2>so it's a vestage just left over, and so it's like, oh,

1042
00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:00.199
<v Speaker 2>that's just part of the form. It doesn't mean anything,

1043
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:04.000
<v Speaker 2>So you have all these just leftovers. H But nipples

1044
00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:07.840
<v Speaker 2>usually usually are a good indicator to the number of

1045
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:10.639
<v Speaker 2>young an animal can support it at time.

1046
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:15.480
<v Speaker 1>So if you birth triplets out there and you're listening

1047
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:18.760
<v Speaker 1>to this, my heart and at least one extra boob

1048
00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:21.079
<v Speaker 1>go out to you, I mean I would definitely donate

1049
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.639
<v Speaker 1>them if I had extra nipples like Marky Mark and

1050
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:26.599
<v Speaker 1>his funky bunch of three. And by the way, those

1051
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:30.000
<v Speaker 1>are called supernumery nipples. Zach Efron is a member of

1052
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.320
<v Speaker 1>the triple nipple Brigade. Harry Styles isn't because he has

1053
00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:36.800
<v Speaker 1>four nipples. Isn't that fun to know about? One in

1054
00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:40.400
<v Speaker 1>five hundred humans have bonus nipples. Most people think they're

1055
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:44.079
<v Speaker 1>just moles. So if you have a bumpy birthmark somewhere

1056
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:47.159
<v Speaker 1>on your milk line aka between your armpit and your

1057
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:51.119
<v Speaker 1>crotch take a closer look. Although surprise, nipples have shown

1058
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:54.519
<v Speaker 1>up on backs, on faces, and, in the case of

1059
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:58.159
<v Speaker 1>one twenty two year old Brazilian woman, the soul of

1060
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:00.800
<v Speaker 1>her foot. She went to the doc turned two thousand

1061
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:02.960
<v Speaker 1>and six to be like, Hey, is this thing I've

1062
00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:05.079
<v Speaker 1>had on the sole of my foot normal? And they

1063
00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:08.559
<v Speaker 1>were like, yeah, it's a normal nipple in a really

1064
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:11.840
<v Speaker 1>creative place. Can we take four thousand pictures of it?

1065
00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:12.360
<v Speaker 2>It rules.

1066
00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:16.639
<v Speaker 1>Also, if you're wondering why approximately half of humans have

1067
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:21.480
<v Speaker 1>perpetually swollen breasts while all the other rodents and mammals

1068
00:59:21.559 --> 00:59:25.159
<v Speaker 1>don't need sports bras unless they're nursing, one theory is

1069
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:29.119
<v Speaker 1>that as humans evolve to walk upright and our dairy

1070
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:33.239
<v Speaker 1>are areas were less swollen in estrus, there needed to

1071
00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:36.960
<v Speaker 1>be an indicator of sexual maturity that was closer to

1072
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:39.960
<v Speaker 1>eye level, although judging by the phrase my eyes are

1073
00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:43.119
<v Speaker 1>up here, buddy, perhaps face nipples would have been the

1074
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:47.239
<v Speaker 1>better adaptation. But back to the mammals, the doctor Lee studies,

1075
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:51.800
<v Speaker 1>We're still talking about nipples, though, what about do male

1076
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:54.320
<v Speaker 1>rodents have nipples?

1077
00:59:55.519 --> 01:00:01.760
<v Speaker 2>They twice to male talks do, but they stay really

1078
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:05.519
<v Speaker 2>really flat and flat to the body. Oh my god,

1079
01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:09.000
<v Speaker 2>that's amazing. So here's the other thing. In a lot

1080
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:12.400
<v Speaker 2>of mammals, males have hair on their bellies, and that's

1081
01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:15.719
<v Speaker 2>one of the things four legged females lose. If they're

1082
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:20.079
<v Speaker 2>hairy species, they'll lose that hair. That's that's also another

1083
01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:23.440
<v Speaker 2>indicator of We can sometimes use it for indicator of

1084
01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:26.760
<v Speaker 2>sex and reproductive condition is if her belly is bald

1085
01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:29.719
<v Speaker 2>or not, because if her belly's bald, that means she's

1086
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.719
<v Speaker 2>she's at the very least brooding. Some babies because they

1087
01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:34.119
<v Speaker 2>got to be able to get to those nips.

1088
01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:37.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh, they gotta be able to find them.

1089
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:38.840
<v Speaker 2>And that and the babies rub it off because like

1090
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.440
<v Speaker 2>in the process of nursing, babies are pretty rough on

1091
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:42.800
<v Speaker 2>it on it underbelly.

1092
01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 1>M hm. You know when you see like an older

1093
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:47.880
<v Speaker 1>guy who doesn't have any hair on his legs from

1094
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:54.559
<v Speaker 1>like the knee sock area down. Yeah, just worn off,

1095
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:59.039
<v Speaker 1>just worn off. Oh my god. Okay, questions are always

1096
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:04.239
<v Speaker 1>ask the thing that you hate about being a mimologist.

1097
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:06.679
<v Speaker 1>It can be as petty or as big as you want.

1098
01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:10.320
<v Speaker 1>It can be anything from email to cleaning glassware.

1099
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:17.000
<v Speaker 2>To I hate dealing with poop. I hate poop. Nothing

1100
01:01:17.239 --> 01:01:19.119
<v Speaker 2>ruins me more than having to deal with poop.

1101
01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Do rodents have it? Smaller poops?

1102
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.239
<v Speaker 2>At least they are, But I just don't like dealing

1103
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:30.280
<v Speaker 2>with the smears and the messages. Oh yeah, but that's

1104
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:33.840
<v Speaker 2>where a lot of important information is. Nothing ficks me

1105
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:36.599
<v Speaker 2>out and getting pooped on or stepping in it or

1106
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:40.119
<v Speaker 2>smashing my finger into it. Ooh, I hate the poops.

1107
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Do you have to analyze rat poops?

1108
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:47.719
<v Speaker 2>I keep some for it. So I'm beginning. Actually that's

1109
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.599
<v Speaker 2>one of the if I can use this as a commercial.

1110
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:53.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking to form a long term relationship with the

1111
01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:58.880
<v Speaker 2>microbiomes microbiome biologist, uh huh, so that we're able to

1112
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:01.159
<v Speaker 2>use that because they do a poop on me that

1113
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:04.679
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that's just free data. Yeah, so collecting

1114
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:07.559
<v Speaker 2>it and then asking some really good questions about that.

1115
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I had a scautologist on who is like doctor Poop

1116
01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:16.920
<v Speaker 1>they call her. She's at the Lincoln Zoo in Chicago.

1117
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:21.880
<v Speaker 1>But she has thirteen freezers full of poops from every animal.

1118
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1119
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:26.239
<v Speaker 1>But if there's a if there's someone out there who's

1120
01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:29.840
<v Speaker 1>looking to do some studies on perhaps some rodents, of

1121
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:33.039
<v Speaker 1>unusual size with poops of slightly unusual size.

1122
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so so here's but here's one of the things.

1123
01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:38.920
<v Speaker 2>H I can't bring that over, Like because of international

1124
01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:42.960
<v Speaker 2>rules and laws, I can't take samples out of Tanzania.

1125
01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:45.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh so what do you you have to do it there?

1126
01:02:46.360 --> 01:02:47.880
<v Speaker 2>I either have to do it there. So I have

1127
01:02:47.960 --> 01:02:51.800
<v Speaker 2>some historical data from before they stopped it, so I

1128
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:55.519
<v Speaker 2>have some old stuff, but I'm still working with local

1129
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:58.280
<v Speaker 2>my species. But that's also kind of one of the things,

1130
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:03.239
<v Speaker 2>like cultivating it and kind of like yeah, but so

1131
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:05.039
<v Speaker 2>I would say my other thing I don't like about

1132
01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:08.559
<v Speaker 2>being a scientist in today's agent is it's sometimes hard

1133
01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:10.679
<v Speaker 2>to do some things based on a lot of the

1134
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:14.599
<v Speaker 2>rules and risk. That's the other thing. Like there's rules

1135
01:03:14.599 --> 01:03:17.519
<v Speaker 2>because there's a risk of bringing disease agents over. I

1136
01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:20.920
<v Speaker 2>get that, but then sometimes just not having a capacity

1137
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to do everything because I haven't cultivated all the relationships

1138
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:27.400
<v Speaker 2>that I would love to cultivate, not just here but

1139
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:31.119
<v Speaker 2>also on the continent, you know, cultivating relationships with more

1140
01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:35.039
<v Speaker 2>continental scientists to do more research. Have it more of

1141
01:03:35.079 --> 01:03:36.119
<v Speaker 2>it just happened there.

1142
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Right, It's not like CSI, where you have the same

1143
01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:46.519
<v Speaker 1>person collecting blood swabs, is doing the footprint analysis and

1144
01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:49.880
<v Speaker 1>in our dreams. Yeah, now what's happening? Okay, what about

1145
01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:53.039
<v Speaker 1>your favorite thing about being a homologist?

1146
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:57.719
<v Speaker 2>The travel? I do science to travel. I grew up

1147
01:03:58.159 --> 01:04:00.320
<v Speaker 2>in my family we never get to go on family vacation,

1148
01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:03.639
<v Speaker 2>so travel was always a dream of mine. I just

1149
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:08.199
<v Speaker 2>grew up working class for so my biggest dream was

1150
01:04:08.199 --> 01:04:12.320
<v Speaker 2>to grow up to be middle class. And so there

1151
01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:14.559
<v Speaker 2>are certain things that I was envious of, So like

1152
01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:17.320
<v Speaker 2>being able to travel and go places and back to

1153
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:19.559
<v Speaker 2>those nature shows that I love. They just seem to

1154
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:22.480
<v Speaker 2>always be all over the world, and so for me

1155
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:25.400
<v Speaker 2>being able to travel to see a lot of things.

1156
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:28.360
<v Speaker 2>For myself, I love being able to travel and visit places.

1157
01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:30.239
<v Speaker 1>Where are some places that you've gotten to go.

1158
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.199
<v Speaker 2>Most of my travels have been because of science, but

1159
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:36.719
<v Speaker 2>so travel for research related things and learning. I've gone

1160
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:39.679
<v Speaker 2>to I've been to Guyana. I love that. So I

1161
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:44.480
<v Speaker 2>got to spend that took a tropical biology class and

1162
01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:48.199
<v Speaker 2>stayed in the bush Tanzania. So I've done research in

1163
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>these places. Other places I've been able to travel to

1164
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:56.280
<v Speaker 2>talk about my research, So visiting so Mexico, Canada, Brazil,

1165
01:04:57.119 --> 01:05:02.760
<v Speaker 2>parts of Europe, so the Netherlands, Rand, the UK again,

1166
01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:05.039
<v Speaker 2>all places I couldn't have gone on my own. Dad.

1167
01:05:05.239 --> 01:05:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, for real. That's why I work in TV too.

1168
01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:11.639
<v Speaker 1>I get to travel for that and that that was

1169
01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:13.159
<v Speaker 1>a big part of it. Like, yeah, I got to

1170
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:15.599
<v Speaker 1>go to aasca for TV. I'm like, when would I

1171
01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:17.000
<v Speaker 1>get to go do that? Never?

1172
01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:17.320
<v Speaker 2>You know?

1173
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:24.039
<v Speaker 1>So, yes, your passport must need extra pages, not lately.

1174
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:27.239
<v Speaker 2>These days, but I do usually get up right to

1175
01:05:27.320 --> 01:05:29.519
<v Speaker 2>the mark and I'm like, you're telling them, no, no, no,

1176
01:05:29.559 --> 01:05:30.519
<v Speaker 2>there's a space in there.

1177
01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Birthday there, Oh my god. Oh And did you want

1178
01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:41.679
<v Speaker 1>to let anyone know about September thirteenth about exciting black homologists.

1179
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're super excited. So I'm joined by amazing colleagues,

1180
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:53.719
<v Speaker 2>everyone from undergraduate students to fellow professionals and faculty members.

1181
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:58.639
<v Speaker 2>We're celebrating Black Mammalogists Week, celebrating not only the research

1182
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:02.360
<v Speaker 2>that mammalogists have done historically and even today, but also

1183
01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:05.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of invigorating the spark of curiosity and interest in

1184
01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:10.079
<v Speaker 2>mammology and in science in general, just among everyone who's interested,

1185
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:14.840
<v Speaker 2>letting folks know that there is expertise in mammology historically

1186
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:18.159
<v Speaker 2>and contemporarily, and we're just excited to share our science

1187
01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:22.639
<v Speaker 2>and our essentially our blooper reels. There's a lot of

1188
01:06:22.639 --> 01:06:27.320
<v Speaker 2>bloopers in doing science and memology in particular, and our

1189
01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:31.679
<v Speaker 2>goal is to inspire folks to become mimologists, to become scientists,

1190
01:06:31.719 --> 01:06:35.039
<v Speaker 2>and to just join this larger community of scientists. We're

1191
01:06:35.079 --> 01:06:37.360
<v Speaker 2>really excited to share this with everyone.

1192
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:39.519
<v Speaker 1>Do you have any of you any previews of any

1193
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:41.039
<v Speaker 1>science bloopers that you're going to share.

1194
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:45.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm probably gonna share when I got bit by a pouchray?

1195
01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:46.599
<v Speaker 2>I got bit?

1196
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, were there antibiotics involved?

1197
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Probably should have been, Oh no, where did it buy you?

1198
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:58.719
<v Speaker 2>But bit me on my left thumb. And that happened

1199
01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:01.559
<v Speaker 2>in twenty fifteen, and to this day, I still don't

1200
01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:02.559
<v Speaker 2>have feeling back in it.

1201
01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you know where that pouched rat is?

1202
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:10.679
<v Speaker 2>You know what? It was? Funny? We were moments away

1203
01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:17.039
<v Speaker 2>from releasing her back to taking measurements. We were just

1204
01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:19.440
<v Speaker 2>getting some last many measurements and we're going to release

1205
01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:21.360
<v Speaker 2>her back in a while. So we released her back

1206
01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:23.119
<v Speaker 2>in a while. I want to imagine she's living her

1207
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:27.000
<v Speaker 2>best life, oh and telling amazing stories about that one

1208
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:30.679
<v Speaker 2>time she she took me down. I was physically taken down.

1209
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:33.159
<v Speaker 2>It took three grown men to get that rat off

1210
01:07:33.159 --> 01:07:33.360
<v Speaker 2>of me.

1211
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh.

1212
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I physically went down with her.

1213
01:07:37.719 --> 01:07:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1214
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:40.679
<v Speaker 2>So she's telling it amazing stories like this one time

1215
01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:46.760
<v Speaker 2>took out this human took her down. My god. Oh wow.

1216
01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:49.400
<v Speaker 1>So every time you give a thumbs up in the left,

1217
01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:51.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot going on behind that.

1218
01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:53.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot like if we were in person, Like

1219
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:55.880
<v Speaker 2>you can actually see my thumb, Like I have divots

1220
01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:58.760
<v Speaker 2>in my thumb, like have little marks and divots.

1221
01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Oh oh, that's a good story. People need to

1222
01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:06.599
<v Speaker 1>tune in to hear the whole thing. Oh amazing. This

1223
01:08:06.679 --> 01:08:09.199
<v Speaker 1>has been so great having you on. I just I

1224
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:11.480
<v Speaker 1>feel like I'm such a fangirl. I've been like so

1225
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:12.760
<v Speaker 1>nervous and excited to talk.

1226
01:08:15.400 --> 01:08:17.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to do when folks say that,

1227
01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:19.560
<v Speaker 2>because I'm always like, we're talking about this, you talk

1228
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:20.000
<v Speaker 2>about me.

1229
01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:24.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So ask smart people stupid questions, because the answers

1230
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:28.960
<v Speaker 1>may be sniffing out landmines or tuberculosis, or inspire you

1231
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:31.880
<v Speaker 1>to make you count your nipples in the bathroom mirror

1232
01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:34.760
<v Speaker 1>at work. Now you can follow doctor Lee do it

1233
01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:38.439
<v Speaker 1>asap on Twitter and Instagram at d and Lee five

1234
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and follow Black Mammalogists at BLK Mammalogists or at Black

1235
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:47.439
<v Speaker 1>Mammalogists all spelled out dot com and those links are

1236
01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:49.840
<v Speaker 1>in the show notes. Plus there are more links up

1237
01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:53.920
<v Speaker 1>at Aliward dot com slash ologies slash mammalogy and we

1238
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:57.359
<v Speaker 1>are at Twitter and Instagram at ologies on both. I'm

1239
01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.800
<v Speaker 1>at ali Ward one l on Twitter and Instagram, so

1240
01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:03.439
<v Speaker 1>please do follow. There's more info up at aliward dot

1241
01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:06.800
<v Speaker 1>com slash Ologies. There are free transcripts for deaf and

1242
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:10.079
<v Speaker 1>hard of hearing folks or anyone who wants a transcript

1243
01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:14.199
<v Speaker 1>up at Alleyward dot com slash ologies dash Extras. Huge

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<v Speaker 1>thanks to Emily White, who is a professional transcriber who

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<v Speaker 1>heads up the efforts to get them done alongside a

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<v Speaker 1>group of amazing ologites. And if you need transcripts for anything,

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<v Speaker 1>email hire Emilywhite at gmail dot com because she is amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you Caleb Patton for bleeping episodes for kiddos. Thank

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01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:33.880
<v Speaker 1>you to Aaron Talbert for admitting the ologies podcast Facebook group.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you Shannon Feltas and Bonnie Dutch. They manage merch

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<v Speaker 1>at ologiesmerch dot com. There are shirts and hats and tots,

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01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:45.720
<v Speaker 1>advisors so much available. There even cozyfall blankets in ologies

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01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:49.279
<v Speaker 1>print available at ologiesmerch dot com. Shannon and Bonnie also

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01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:51.720
<v Speaker 1>host the comedy podcast You Are That and They're Hilarious.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you Noel Dilworth for helping move all the scheduling

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<v Speaker 1>because my brain is bad at it. Thank you to

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<v Speaker 1>assistant editor aka the Butcher, Jared Sleeper, who hosts the

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<v Speaker 1>mental health podcast My Good Bad Brain, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>to lead mustache editor Stephen Ray Morris of the podcast

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<v Speaker 1>Sea Jurassic Right, which is currently airing a back to

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<v Speaker 1>school series with dinosaurs scientists. So that is Sea Jurassic

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01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Right his podcast. Also Nick Thorburn of the band Islands

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<v Speaker 1>wrote the theme music and performed it. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>stick around all the way through the credits to the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the episode, I tell you a secret. And

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<v Speaker 1>this week the secret is that I read some hack

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<v Speaker 1>that if you put dish soap on your shower floor

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<v Speaker 1>and then baking soda and you let it sit a

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<v Speaker 1>couple hours or overnight, and then you come back the

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<v Speaker 1>next day, your grout has never been cleaner. So I

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<v Speaker 1>tried it, y'all. It works. Also be careful because it's slippery.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody needs to fall naked. I was on a date

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<v Speaker 1>once s where a guy told me about how he

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<v Speaker 1>passed out in the shower because he had hemorrhoids so

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<v Speaker 1>bad and he cracked his head open, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a lot of information. He also mentioned that

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<v Speaker 1>he had a fiance but he was planning on breaking

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<v Speaker 1>up with her over the phone, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>this is not going to go forward. My point is,

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<v Speaker 1>don't slip and fall in the shower. But sparkling grout,

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<v Speaker 1>what a daymaker. Okay, enjoy Black Mammalogist Week and then

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<v Speaker 1>get ready for a very creepy October. Not too creepy

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<v Speaker 1>but pretty great. By Okay, we're by pacodermatology, homology or

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<v Speaker 1>do zoology, lithology, Yeah, technology, meteorology, mettology, methology, seriology, elinology

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing but mammals.