WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.000 Before we start the show, I have a few announcements. 2 00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:07.480 We are hosting studio sessions here at Studio both And 3 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:11.359 in North Adam's mass on March sixth and seventh. You 4 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:14.400 can join me, took Her, Shana and Kaz for a 5 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:18.280 deep dive conversation and research round table focusing on the 6 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:22.920 Keys case, doze and new files we've received from the FBI. 7 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:26.280 To learn more and get your tickets, go to both 8 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:31.399 and dot Fyi. Also, we are launching another Trova trip. 9 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.240 This time we are going to Costa Rica and tickets 10 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:38.759 go on sale today. After pre sale, we only have 11 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:41.600 ten left, so get in there while the Geddon's good. 12 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.960 For more information about the trip and to snag your spot, 13 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:48.960 check out the link in the show notes. And finally, 14 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.079 as I mentioned in the last episode, I appeared in 15 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:56.479 the podcast series Mind of a Monster, wherein they interview 16 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.840 me several people close to Keys and his army buddy 17 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:02.799 n Nathan, who we discussed earlier this season. To hear 18 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:06.400 Nathan's interview and mine, check out the series now wherever 19 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:19.879 you listen to podcasts. This is a Studio both And production. 20 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:34.079 For the majority of this season, we've been focused on Washington, state. 21 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:38.359 As new information has come in, and more and more 22 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.640 information and files continue to come in, It's where we 23 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:44.760 think we have the best shot of identifying at least 24 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:49.400 three of Keys's unknown victims, and we've made great strides 25 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:53.400 over the past nine months in doing so. However, as 26 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.280 we begin to close out the season, we wanted to 27 00:01:56.359 --> 00:02:00.640 let those investigations continue behind the scenes as we head 28 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:03.719 back to the South on the show, where new files 29 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:07.439 and information have also shed new light on Keysa's activities 30 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:13.199 and open new leads. And today we're starting in familiar territory, 31 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:19.520 East Texas. While we remain confident that Keeesas time in 32 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.919 East Texas involved the abductions and murders of James Lamart 33 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:26.599 Tidwell and Mark Juillian Oldberry in addition to his known 34 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.840 crimes the robbery and Azel and Arson and Aledo, there 35 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.319 have still been questions surrounding some of his lost time 36 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.560 and odd stops, and for more than four years now, 37 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:42.919 Jordan has been hyper focused on Keyesas time in Houston 38 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:50.960 and its surrounding suburbs and exurbs. This is true crime bullshit. 39 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:57.360 The serialized investigation into Israel Keys Season seven, episode thirteen, 40 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:06.080 Houston in our research across the country. We've focused on 41 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:10.680 many different locations Keys may have committed crimes, and one 42 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.639 thing we've collectively come to believe is that Keys may 43 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:15.840 have been much more active in the months before his 44 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:21.199 arrest than we'd originally thought. He even said so much himself. 45 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.439 In the last year and a half, I've done a 46 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.560 lot in twenty twenty one. Before Jordan joining the team, 47 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:35.039 he'd been quietly gathering information, filing records requests, and forwarding 48 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:39.120 his theories onto us. In July of twenty twenty two, 49 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:42.960 while he was searching human remains found in abandoned house 50 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.719 as one does, he came across an article on click 51 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.639 to Houston dot com that jumped out at him. Body 52 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:57.039 found an abandoned house fire. It was written on March tenth, 53 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:01.520 twenty twelve, just days before Keys would be arrested, and 54 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.159 that date was of particular interest because we know that 55 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:09.199 Keys had been in Houston the day before. The article stated, 56 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.240 residents in a southeast Houston neighborhood set a home that 57 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.160 caught fire Friday night had been boarded up for more 58 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.839 than a decade, so when firefighters found a dead body inside, 59 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:24.160 neighbors were left scratching their heads. When I got here, 60 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:26.360 I was thinking about going in to see if anyone 61 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.720 was in there, but I didn't hear any yelling. Witness 62 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:33.959 c S said it was abandoned. I didn't expect anyone 63 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:39.240 to be inside. Jordan wasn't able to find any more 64 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:42.839 mentions in the news of this incident. His initial thought 65 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.480 was that the remains could possibly have belonged to James 66 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:49.519 Lamar Tidwell, so he started digging and obtaining new information 67 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:53.519 via FOYA requests, and upon speaking with the Harris County 68 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:57.720 Institute of Forensic Sciences, Jordan found out that the deceased 69 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:03.160 person had indeed been identified through dental records. Nicholas Nicky 70 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:07.480 O'Neill Simon was born on February first, nineteen seventy nine, 71 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:11.480 in Newbern, North Carolina. At the time of his death, 72 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:14.879 his parents still lived there with his brother. His father 73 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.959 and brother have since passed away, and now his mother 74 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.240 maintains a find a Grave page online where she wishes 75 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:25.759 NICKI a happy Birthday every year. Nick had very little 76 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.639 personal information available. Most of his address history had to 77 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:33.279 be rebuilt through court records, and his life living between 78 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:37.639 North Carolina and Texas is mostly unknown. He seemingly had 79 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.319 no digital footprint apart from one email address, and despite 80 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:45.519 his death happening in Texas and his remains being buried 81 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.839 back in Newbern, North Carolina, he doesn't even have a 82 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:53.240 death certificate on file. What's been made most known about 83 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.920 Nick has been obtained through the police case file and 84 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.680 some Houston court records. Nick had a life of struggle 85 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.839 prior to his death. According to his mother in her 86 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:08.600 police interview, Nick was a crack cocaine user but had 87 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:12.560 been trying to get clean, and their speculation he may 88 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.160 have owed a debt to his dealer. He had also 89 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.040 somewhat recently had to move out of his place at 90 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.800 a halfway house after a kitchen fire occurred there. That 91 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.399 fire appeared to be accidental, according to the report, However, 92 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:29.199 due to his reputation, Arson had conducted a brief investigation. 93 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.399 Though the police state that Nick was unhoused at the 94 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.360 time of his death, he did have a consistent address 95 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:40.600 as of February twenty twelve, just a month before his death, 96 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:43.240 but it's unclear if he was still living there or 97 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:48.680 had become unhoused between February and March. On March ninth, 98 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:52.160 twenty twelve, at nine twenty two pm, a hang up 99 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.279 call came in to the Houston Police Department. When they 100 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.560 arrived at the address, the call originated from nineteen o 101 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:02.240 two Dismute Street, they discovered Houston Fire Department in the 102 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:06.240 process of extinguishing a house fire near by at nineteen 103 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:10.519 o eight Dismukee Street. As the fire department worked to 104 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:16.199 extinguish the fire, they discovered Nick's body. Houston p Dy 105 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:19.199 helped secure the scene and began canvassing the area and 106 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:24.600 conducting witness interviews. By policy, Arson and Homicide were notified 107 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.959 and Detective Sergeant J. J. Wilson and Detective Rick Moreno 108 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:34.120 were assigned the case. The following morning, numerous witnesses reported 109 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:37.879 a small explosion just prior to the fire, one witness 110 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:41.600 stating that it sounded like a tire blow out. According 111 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.199 to the police files, witness m V who lived next door, 112 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:48.000 stated that between nine and ten p m. While she 113 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.160 was in her bedroom, she heard one explosion and then 114 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:54.120 heard the fire fighters arriving. She stayed in her room 115 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.240 and didn't look outside because she thought it was a 116 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:02.519 car tire that exploded. Once the fire was extinguished, Nick 117 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.199 was found against the front door, which was also the 118 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.600 location most damaged by the fire. The front interior wall 119 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.560 of the home apparently had stacks of newspapers and books 120 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:15.040 along the base of the wall, which burned quickly. 121 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.680 You said the why not feeling? You know, it wasn't 122 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:24.399 so much why but why not the arson? Yeah, and 123 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.959 that's a feeling you've had before, the why not? Yeah, Well, 124 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:30.160 I mean it's. 125 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.120 It's a pretty good way to cover up a burglary too, 126 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.799 So there's not a house then they don't usually take 127 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:43.879 a very good inventory. 128 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.039 So well, and I'm asking because you mentioned with the 129 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:48.159 couriers that you were going to go back this month 130 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:49.799 or next month and burned down that house. 131 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:55.440 Yeah, I knew there was When I picked that house 132 00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:00.799 in Vermont, I knew first of all that it wasn't salvageable, 133 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.720 and whoever was looking at the property probably wasn't going 134 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:04.440 to be looking. 135 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:04.759 At it. 136 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:11.320 Looking at it for the house, So I knew there 137 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:13.200 was a good chance even if I didn't have time 138 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:18.000 or opportunity to burn it while I was there, then 139 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:21.720 there was a good chance they wouldn't be found, at 140 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:25.159 least not right away. How did you start the fire? 141 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:27.840 I know you said there was a gas in the grade. 142 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:28.879 Did you use the gas or what? 143 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:30.200 Did you start it? 144 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:30.559 Well? 145 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:34.919 I t I took out. Once I decided to burn it, 146 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:40.159 I opened up the attic access and opened up all 147 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:47.519 the windows around the house on the inside, and grabbed 148 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:51.720 a bunch of clothes and made a trail of clothes 149 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:56.759 and bedding and stuff from every room to different parts 150 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:00.120 of the house, and poured gas on the clothes all 151 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:02.279 the way out to the back door, and then a 152 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:04.480 just lit it from the back door. 153 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:12.039 According to the arson investigator's notes, Nick's head was protruding 154 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:16.399 partially through the front door when they found him, the door, 155 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:21.320 which had been left ajar. The autopsy was conducted on 156 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:24.759 March tenth by doctor Albert Chu. It was determined that 157 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.600 Nick was found with extensive thermal injuries covering ninety five 158 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.519 percent of the surface of his body. He had thermal 159 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:34.519 fractures in his elbow, which occur when the bone reached 160 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.600 a high enough temperature to crack from the heat. The 161 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:40.480 burns were so extensive that the emmy couldn't tell if 162 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.720 other injuries, such as a gunshot or stabbing, had occurred. 163 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.399 Due to the extent of external injury. Doctor Chu was 164 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:52.039 only able to assess internal injury definitively, and Nick's cause 165 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:55.600 of death was ruled as smoke inhalation, but the manner 166 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.320 was left open pending the results of the homicide investigation. 167 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.559 The fire's cause was also ruled as undetermined pending the 168 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.960 results of the homicide investigation. Jordan was able to speak 169 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.279 with Arson investigator A. J. Green, who clarified that this 170 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.759 ruling meant that he could not definitively say it was 171 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:17.960 arson until homicide determined that the death was a result 172 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.320 of a homicide. Homicide allegedly couldn't declare it as such 173 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.960 until Arson said it was intentionally set. The fire department 174 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:30.120 report states that there was no obvious point of ignition, 175 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:34.240 They couldn't identify the heat source used for ignition, and 176 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:38.759 said that no human factors contributed to the ignition, which 177 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:42.440 very much contradicts the assertion that this was an accident 178 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.759 as simple as Nick falling asleep with an unattended fire 179 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:51.440 or cigarette in his mouth. So, if you're following, and 180 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:56.799 this is unfortunately quite familiar logic, the fire department could 181 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.159 not rule the fire arson until the homicide apartment ruled 182 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.120 that Nick's death was homicide, but the homicide department could 183 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.919 not rule that Nick's death was a homicide unless the 184 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:12.320 fire department ruled that the fire was an arson. Additionally, 185 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.279 it was written off as accidental, yet it was also 186 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:21.039 ruled that no human factors were involved. Make of all 187 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:26.039 that what you will. The fire department never declared the 188 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:29.159 cause of the fire, surmising it was accidental due to 189 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.639 being unattended, and the police never further investigated this as 190 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:37.759 a homicide because it was never declared arson, rather undetermined 191 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:42.120 presumed accidental. The police have to say they believe it 192 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.559 was a homicide to initiate an arson investigation, but they 193 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.159 closed the case based on the arson investigator's initial impression 194 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.399 and the fact that Nick was a drug user. Nick's 195 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.440 official cause of death was ruled as smoke inhalation. The 196 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.960 police closed the case and said of twenty fourteen, stating 197 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.159 it appears that the decedent was under the influence of 198 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:08.320 drugs to the point that his mental faculties were impaired. 199 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:11.600 The decedent started an intentional fire in the living room 200 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.879 of the vacant home in hopes of keeping warm on 201 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.759 a cold night, as the oxygen was depleted in the 202 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.600 interior of the home. The decedent attempted to exit the home, 203 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.840 but was overcome by the thick smoke as he searched 204 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.600 for the doorknob at the front door. The body was 205 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.080 found where it collapsed at the front door attempting an 206 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:33.679 escape from the home. But all of this seems to 207 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.200 contradict the facts that are placed in the fire department's report. 208 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.840 Weather Underground shows that the temperature around the start of 209 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:45.000 the fire was fifty degrees with very light rain, making 210 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:49.279 the need for a fire debatable to me. Further, Nick's 211 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.679 mother told the police that he would never be careless 212 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:56.519 with fire. Nick was a known cocaine user and had 213 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:59.559 a somewhat low level of cocaine in his system, though 214 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.240 his body had already metabolized one sixth of it. He 215 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:06.039 had a very small amount of alcohol in a system 216 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:10.559 as well, being a heavy cocaine user. It's unclear what 217 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:14.080 his level of impairment would have been, but cocaine, being 218 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:19.159 a stimulant, would not make him overly drowsy. The case 219 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.279 closure came a month before a scandal hit Houston PD 220 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:28.320 involving premature case closures, and that scandal would ripple on 221 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.559 for ten years and affect a quarter million incident reports 222 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:40.960 in total. It's the beginning of the year, which means 223 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:46.759 cold days, big goals, and no time or energy to cook. 224 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:51.159 Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepared meals designed 225 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.480 by dietitians and crafted by chefs, so you get to 226 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.919 eat well without all the planning and cooking. 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Eat like a pro this month with Factor. 254 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.159 New subscribers only varies by plan one free breakfast item 255 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:57.519 per box for one year while subscription is active. Houston 256 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.399 PD has a history of notable contrayes over the past 257 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.920 eleven years. Nearly two years after Nick's case was closed, 258 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.039 a Houston Police Department sergeant was fired and seven others 259 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.279 punished after an internal investigation of the Homicide Division determined 260 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:19.599 that nearly two dozen murder cases were ignored or investigative 261 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:24.400 work was shoddy. A kron News article stated, the chief 262 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:28.480 said the investigation, which began last October, uncovered a long 263 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:32.720 list of deficiencies in one of HPD's approximately ten detective 264 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:37.640 squads in the Homicide Division. The shortcomings include detectives who 265 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.160 failed to conduct the required follow up investigation in cases 266 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:45.400 assigned them after they did preliminary work at the crime scene. 267 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.000 When the follow up was conducted, it was deficient. Of 268 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.400 those who did additional field work, many failed to timely 269 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.240 enter their field notes into the case files or never did. 270 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:02.039 More recently, an investigation found from October twenty fourteen through 271 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:06.279 twenty twenty four when a code designated SL was used 272 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.240 to suspend two hundred sixty four thousand cases due to 273 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:15.599 staffing shortages. The code was officially retired by the department 274 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.160 in twenty twenty one, but was found to still be 275 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:24.000 in use as late as February of twenty twenty four. Now, 276 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:26.440 before we get way off in the weeds on Jordan's 277 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:31.359 Nick Simon theory, we need to acknowledge something This could 278 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.839 have been a legitimate accident, and Keys never mentioned it 279 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:39.519 directly or insinuated involvement. He did tell the FBI he 280 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:43.519 had more things to discuss about Texas, but never elaborated. 281 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:46.359 He also told them he had been losing control of 282 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.359 himself toward the end. The fact that he could be 283 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.559 responsible for three to four murders after Samantha Konik seems 284 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.519 like it could be a stretch, But then you recall 285 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.279 a comment Keys made late into the investigation. What we're 286 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.759 talking about we could be talking about ten times as 287 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:07.559 many cases, which, as I mentioned earlier in the series, 288 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:13.079 could mean up to forty or fifty crimes. We also 289 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:16.480 have to wonder, with all these coincidences perfectly falling in 290 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.680 line with the things we know about Keys's habits, methods, 291 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.680 and tactics, if it really is a series of wild coincidences, 292 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.400 and how many coincidences can realistically line up before you 293 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.519 are no longer looking at random events, but aspects of 294 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.799 a pattern indicative of intentional action. So with that in mind, 295 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:37.319 let's look at where we know Keys was at the 296 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.880 time the fire was being dealt with Israel. Keys arrived 297 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.960 back in Texas to Heidi's home near Lufkin at ten 298 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.119 pm on March eighth, twenty twelve. The next place we 299 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.480 can definitively place him is at the Houston Community Bank 300 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:58.000 now Independent Financial at fifteen fifteen Farm to Market nineteen 301 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.519 sixty by pass road. This is where Keyes went to 302 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.680 an at M in Humble, Texas to use Samantha Konig's 303 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.000 debit card on March tenth at eleven twenty three p 304 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.400 m Alaskans standard time. This converts to two twenty three 305 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:19.640 a m. Central Standard time. We know that Keys had 306 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.799 small bills from the Azel Bank robbery on his person 307 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.920 at the time of his arrest, and March ninth is 308 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.160 the only date that really makes sense for him to 309 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.160 have traveled back to Houston to get those small bills, 310 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.000 because that's the first time we see travel as far 311 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:38.279 south as Houston on this trip. His use of this 312 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.440 at M and Humble makes zero sense unless he was 313 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.319 on his way back northbound to Luffkin from Houston. This 314 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.359 at M is about a two and a half hour 315 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.359 drive south from Lufkin, but a mere twenty seven miles 316 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.519 from nineteen o eight d Smute Street, and it's also 317 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.319 right on the main and most direct route north back 318 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:01.599 to Lufkin from Houston. Key stated that he had stashed 319 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:05.599 the bills from the Azel Bank robbery near the Houston Airport. 320 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:08.519 The house on Dismute is five and a half miles 321 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.200 away from the William P. Hobby International Airport in Houston, 322 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:16.240 and it's just passed an off ramp from Interstate forty five. 323 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.400 Keys would only have to take two turns to get 324 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:22.480 from that house to the airport, and it would have 325 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.319 only taken about ten minutes with traffic. Keys told the 326 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.839 FBI in his July tenth, twenty twelve interview, that he 327 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.640 had used arson to cover up murders, giving some pretty 328 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.519 on the nose info on how to make it convincing. 329 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.279 I read a story once about an elderly couple that 330 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.039 but I think it was like an arson or something 331 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:50.720 like that, where you know, like to try to cover 332 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:51.359 up the body. 333 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.880 Since that the kind of thing you're talking about, not specifically, 334 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:57.640 but no, I know. 335 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:02.599 What you're saying, where they were probably killed, they recovered 336 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:04.839 the bodies and uh, you know in the house fire, 337 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.200 and you know, on on inspection they're they think they're 338 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:10.039 probably dead. 339 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:10.799 Before the fire too. 340 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.799 So, yeah, is that the kind of thing you're talking 341 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:20.559 about No, you can. 342 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:22.519 Get around the. 343 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:26.680 Like, get around that house. 344 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.680 So, oh, just the whole I no, I I know 345 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.279 what you're saying. 346 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:35.640 Like though, people try to use fires to cover up murder, 347 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.519 but right, if you don't plant it out right, it 348 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:39.400 doesn't work. 349 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.160 Usually they can tell that they were dead or. 350 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.279 Right, cause the body's not gonna burn up all the ways. 351 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:45.319 So you have to make sure that. 352 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:53.240 Whoever whoever's in the fire has to still be breathing 353 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:54.039 when the fire is going. 354 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.559 I don't know else it doesn't work so that the 355 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.920 smoke kills them or something like that. Right, So, but 356 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:04.920 you were talking about a folly that wasn't gonna be 357 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:16.599 decomposed enough. That's what I'm not understanding, right. 358 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:21.480 Yeah, cause I wasn't planning on it. I wasn't planning 359 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.400 on going back and getting rid of it. I was 360 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:27.400 just gonna I was just hoping that I thought it 361 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.200 would be found that. I just was hoping it would 362 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:39.920 be enough time there, uh, that they wouldn't be able 363 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:44.160 to figure out that it wasn't natural causes kind of. 364 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:47.119 That's so like you're talking about somebody just found in 365 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.279 a house that wouldn't be messed for a really long 366 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:50.319 time or something like that. 367 00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:01.000 No, that's a good idea, though kind of hard to 368 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:05.720 figure out. 369 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.759 While I am aware of the danger in confirmation bias, 370 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:13.880 this entire section of the interview rings eerily similar to 371 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.880 the theory of events surrounding Nick's death. The arson investigator 372 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.519 notes in the police file that there was a four 373 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.720 rent sign found in the yard, and there's no indication 374 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:28.119 the property was for sale or rent at all between 375 00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.759 two thousand and six and twenty twelve. We know Keys 376 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:35.480 used realty websites and magazines to scout vacant and abandoned 377 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.960 locations for his crimes, so is it possible that he 378 00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.880 stumbled upon this property on Craigslist or some other reality magazine. 379 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:49.039 As demonstrated in the Alito Fire Azel robbery, Keys liked 380 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:51.880 to watch the fires. He spent about four and a 381 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:55.240 half hours between lighting the Alito fire and robbing the 382 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:58.559 Azel bank, but the distance between the two is only 383 00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:02.880 about twenty miles or thirty five minutes of driving. He 384 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.680 said he got carried away watching the fire, something he'd 385 00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:10.079 state while confessing to several of his crimes. He got 386 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:14.279 carried away and lost track of time. If he did 387 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:16.920 in fact set fire to the house on Dsmute Street, 388 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.279 then stayed around to watch the response. The homicide detectives 389 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:25.160 didn't even arrive on scene until eleven thirty six pm, 390 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:28.359 more than two hours after receiving the initial hang up call, 391 00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:31.799 and they didn't leave the scene until around four thirty am, 392 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.240 so Keys would have had plenty of time to get 393 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:38.200 to his safe space to watch the house burn down. Notably, 394 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.599 half a block from the house is an outdoor recreation 395 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:46.519 facility and two blocks away as a forested park. We 396 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:49.279 also know that Keys brought the police scanner that he'd 397 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.279 used during the Conig kidnapping with him to Texas. It 398 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.519 was found in his suit case when he was arrested. 399 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:59.359 He used this for situational awareness purposes while going to ATMs. 400 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.240 We also know that he used it to see where 401 00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.920