WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:05.400 Welcome to break Free and Trust a redesign for Living. 2 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:06.919 Join me Chris and. 3 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:11.400 Me Jacqueline for real conversations about life, death, and everything 4 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:11.880 in between. 5 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.759 Learn to connect with your intrinsic power to grow and heal, 6 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:16.960 have a laugh at your own humanness, and not take 7 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:17.920 life too seriously. 8 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:22.000 Through healthy conversations between the feminine and masculine, you learn 9 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:24.760 how to harness the power of relationship and the mirror, 10 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:27.839 to befriend your shadow, and to trust that any obstacle 11 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.079 that gets in your way is there to help. 12 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.679 You grow Together. Working at a practical levels, you learn 13 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.359 to trust that everything that is happening is for you, 14 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:36.920 your growth and ultimate freedom. 15 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:40.520 Our circumstances don't matter. It's only how we relate to 16 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:41.200 them it does. 17 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:43.359 Get ready to be your friend the wisdom of your 18 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:44.840 body and the power of your mind. 19 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.640 Break Free and Trust starts. 20 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:53.600 Now, and Welcome to break Free and Trust a Redesign 21 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.640 for Living. I am Chris and I'm Jacqueline. And they're 22 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:00.880 going to start this episode off with a quote that 23 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:02.960 goes of what we're going to be talking about, and 24 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.680 it goes like this, one does not become enlightened by 25 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:09.760 imagining figures of light while but making the darkness conscious, 26 00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:13.000 and that's Carl young and Young is pointing at something 27 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.120 most of us would rather avoid. The path doesn't run 28 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.000 through the light we imagine, it runs through the dark 29 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.040 we won't look at. And the darkness rarely announces itself 30 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.000 as darkness. It shows up as a reaction that's far 31 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.799 bigger than the moment it caused. I've been sitting with 32 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.120 my own triggers lately, and instead of managing them or 33 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.920 explaining them away, I got really curious and I followed 34 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.840 one all the way down and what I found waiting 35 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:38.480 there wasn't a flaw or defect. It was a guard, 36 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.480 something that has been standing watch over an old wound 37 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.560 for a very long time and doing exactly the job 38 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:48.959 was built for. I even had a name, and once 39 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.400 I was willing to give it one, it took it on. 40 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:53.920 And then I did something that felt really uncomfortable at first, 41 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:55.480 but it turned out to be one of the most 42 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:58.640 intimate things I've done. I introduced it to Jacqueline. So 43 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.480 today the two of us want to go into the together. 44 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.120 What is the trigger actually pointing at and why is 45 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:07.120 the reaction always bigger than the moment? Who are these 46 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:09.080 protectors that show up for us? And what exactly are 47 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:12.520 they guarding? Is a protector an enemy to be defeated 48 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.639 or something to be met, named and thanked? And what 49 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.879 happens to a relationship when you introduce yours the person 50 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.240 you love? So all this and more in the next 51 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.319 hour and for live years will take questions in the 52 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.520 second half, So put their questions in the chat or 53 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.080 calling it one eight hundred nine three zero two eight 54 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:31.039 one nine. 55 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:37.120 Thanks Chris. So we're shifting gears a little bit on 56 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.879 this call because we spent a lot of time focused 57 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:46.560 on me and learning those places where I get vulnerable 58 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:50.840 and come to you, and this time the experience was 59 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:55.479 entirely different. And I remember you coming to me a 60 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.360 few weeks ago and telling me that you had had 61 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.520 a conversation that had really left with wanting to have 62 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:05.560 a discussion with me when I was ready, and that 63 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.680 you had found something really important through that conversation that 64 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:12.560 you wanted to share. And then we got on a 65 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:16.439 plane and we had a little time to get yeah, 66 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:21.680 and you introduced me to what you were just speaking about, 67 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:25.400 which is the name of the guard that you had 68 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:32.000 come to see. And as you said earlier, there was 69 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:36.199 something incredibly intimate that showed up through that conversation and 70 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:38.719 an awareness on both of our parts that we had 71 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:43.039 just touched something really important in terms of relationship. And 72 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.400 so you decided to be a little a little maybe 73 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:51.800 a little more vulnerable on this podcast and share some 74 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:54.639 of what that was about for you. So, do you 75 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:57.400 want to introduce us to what you figured out or 76 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:58.039 what you found? 77 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.439 Yeah, I'm not sure I figured anything out. Yeah when 78 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:03.240 I when I was to discover, but I got laughing 79 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.439 there because I'm recognizing that's a great strategy if I 80 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:07.240 want to talk to you something where you can't leave, 81 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.360 I wait till you get on a plane. So listeners 82 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:12.479 out there a great strategy. 83 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.600 Except our plane ride was only just over an hour, 84 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:20.240 so you didn't have it's perfect free seeds. 85 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:26.560 Actually all joking aside, it's you know, uh, back up, 86 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.720 and as we get into this, just what the even 87 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:31.639 what the impetus was for me to start exploring this? 88 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:36.680 Done lots of work on myself over the last several years, 89 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:38.360 and you know, some of the stuff we've shared in 90 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:42.040 this podcast, and I don't get triggered a lot anymore. 91 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.480 I mean I'm human. I get triggered, but it's it's 92 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:46.720 not as nearly as frequent as it used to be, 93 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:49.800 you know, say even five or six year ago, years ago. 94 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:55.319 And I started noticing, particularly in this past year, that 95 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.439 the triggers I was having had a certain flavor to them. 96 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:05.759 They generally around the same thing. And the catalyst for me, 97 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:08.399 my aha, I'm going you know what I actually want 98 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.240 to look into this a little more was I was 99 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:16.160 reading this book recently called Resurrecting Jesus by Adi Ashanti, 100 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:20.000 And in the in this book, one of the things 101 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.480 he's he's talking it's a metaphysical look at the teachings 102 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.399 of Jesus, which you know, I'm a big fan of 103 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.000 and i'd never read this author before. I found his 104 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.800 stuff fascinating. But something he talked about in there was 105 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:33.720 one of the things to understand about the Jesus story 106 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:37.079 is nobody understood him, including like his disciples. He was 107 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:40.800 just this guy that was constantly misunderstood. I don't think 108 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:43.160 i'm that character. And I only bring it up because 109 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.480 that when I read that, that's when this light bulb 110 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.759 put off my head. Oh that's my trigger. My trigger 111 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:54.399 is when I'm feeling not understood, particularly by people that 112 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.120 I love and I care about, but I desperately want 113 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.480 them to understand me. And I've sort of replayed the 114 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:03.319 last sort of year in my mind and just thought 115 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.560 of all these altercations I have where I was triggered 116 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.519 and disregulated, and yet all those roots of not being understood. 117 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:12.560 I was trying to get something across or say something 118 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.480 I was feeling really misunderstood, and as a result, I 119 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.120 would go into this sort of you know, dark mode 120 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:20.519 I call it for now. So I wanted to understand 121 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.920 this a bit more, so I reached out to you know, 122 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.480 the therapist. 123 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:29.680 To keep going. So when you speak to this idea 124 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.800 of going into this dark mode, what does that mean? 125 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.759 That's a great question. So my triggered state, which I 126 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:44.519 call dark mode, sometimes I first thing I notice is 127 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:49.439 my breath get shell. I start to feel even more 128 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:52.600 disassociated for my body, and then I take on a 129 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:55.040 bunch of character traits which are I tend to a 130 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:57.560 little bit mean, I tend to get a little bit short, 131 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.680 I tend to get a little patronizing and a little 132 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:03.519 bit cold, and and part of me just wants to 133 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:05.519 get out of there. And so I'm using all these 134 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.920 things as a way to sort of end the conversation 135 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.519 and move on. So that's that's my dark mode. Okay, 136 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.279 great question. And so I reach out to my reach 137 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.240 out to my therapist and said, he listen, I want 138 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:20.959 to explore this thing, but I want to explore it 139 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.040 a different way. It's like, I know the origin of 140 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:26.240 this thing. I've explored that to death. I've looked at 141 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.199 the origin stories of these various you know, trauma for 142 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:30.600 lack of a better word I had. I don't want 143 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:32.839 to go back there and explore this thing. I want 144 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:34.399 to come at this a different way because I want 145 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:38.600 to understand why is this one still showing up? The 146 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.480 other one seem to have faded away. The other ones 147 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.920 that have come from these origin stories don't really show 148 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:44.560 up in the same way, but this one just seems 149 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:46.439 to be so acute. I want to come at this 150 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:47.079 a different way. 151 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.079 And when you say this one, you're talking about this 152 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:51.839 wound of feeling misunderstood. 153 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:55.439 Yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever's behind that that's leading to this 154 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:57.639 this this is the one that keeps persisting even though 155 00:07:57.639 --> 00:07:59.399 I can point at it and say, well, I can 156 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.199 really see where that came from. I can really see 157 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.959 in my childhood where that shows up. I can name 158 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.920 number of events I can play it over, but why 159 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.240 does it keep showing up? And she had this idea 160 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.680 of let's come at it a different way. Let's think 161 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.160 of it differently. Let's think of this as it's a 162 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:23.680 guard or protector that's showing up. Can you describe it? 163 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:25.680 And much in the same way I describe it now, 164 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.439 It's like I described in terms of well, okay, well, 165 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.959 it's cold, it's patronizing, it's it's controlling, it's a little 166 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.279 bit mean. Okay, well, let's let's give it a name, 167 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.840 Like what does it sound like? Is it like it? 168 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:40.799 Is it the the analyst? Is it the is it 169 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.879 the hero? Is it the sacrifice of the lawyer? And 170 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:45.759 boom yet the lawyer. That's That's exactly what it is. 171 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.919 It wants to It wants to prosecute the case, it 172 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.679 wants to win, It wants to have its case heard, 173 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:53.600 and it wants the case to shut and move on 174 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.679 with the victory. That's exactly what's showing up. And it's 175 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.440 so the opposite of a character I want to play 176 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:02.440 and who I want to be. I don't want to 177 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:04.759 be that character. But that's the character that's showing up, 178 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.120 and so that's and then within this further conversation about 179 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:14.039 she recommended what would it be like to introduce this 180 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.200 protector to Jacqueline, And that's where we ended up on 181 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.080 a plane meeting the lawyer. 182 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:22.840 So I think I want to take us a step back, 183 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:27.960 because the lawyer, the lawyer, you refer to it as 184 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:35.000 a guard or a protector, is managing something. Yeah, so 185 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.840 that character, for lack of a better word, shows up 186 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:44.960 to manage something that's pretty deep, which for you, as 187 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:50.720 you described it was a wound of feeling not understood. Yes, yes, 188 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:57.919 And so it serves it serves the purpose of protecting 189 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:02.320 that or guarding that emotion for actually being exposed both 190 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:09.519 to you and to those around right. Correct, And so 191 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:17.240 knowing that I knew the wound, why was introducing me 192 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:19.840 to the lawyer so important? 193 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:24.360 I don't I'm not sure use I use the word important. 194 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:27.559 I wasn't sure. It was a suggestion where I could 195 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:32.639 see it as being potentially helpful, is the way I 196 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.840 introduced it in this sense, Hey, I'm coming to terms 197 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:39.039 of this thing. I've named this thing, and when it 198 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.200 shows up, I'm asking your help to identify it with 199 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:44.480 me so we can name it together, we can see 200 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.080 it together, and within that, maybe we can co create 201 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:50.919 the management of this protector between the two of us, 202 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:52.440 not just me and my own trying to do it 203 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.399 on my own myself, but can we both work together 204 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:58.759 to help me manage this protector in a way that's 205 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.240 that works better for me and for our relationship. 206 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:05.039 That you took that way further than I expected you to. 207 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.120 You're catching me off guard a little bit now. But 208 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.200 what I'm hearing in that and what I really felt 209 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:21.559 in that conversation was I'm aware that there is a 210 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:28.960 part that I play when a really big trigger shows 211 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:35.000 up for me, and I want to expose both why 212 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:38.840 it's showing up and what it looks like so that 213 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:40.720 you and I can figure things out together. 214 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:45.480 Yes, totally, yeah, And it's and it's and it's really 215 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:49.919 specific to situations that again, it's not something that's like 216 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.120 I think the event is not being understood, but the 217 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.440 wound lights lies believe that. Like, I'm more than happy 218 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.399 to be not understood by almost everybody, and there's lots 219 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.559 and lots of people other than understand me. I don't 220 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.039 care if they do, it's not necessary. I'm fine with it. 221 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.440 It it's but it does matter when it's say when 222 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:13.399 it's say you, it's my father, it's our kids. That's when, 223 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.720 all of a sudden, the event of not being understood 224 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:21.200 drives deeper into something like a fear of rejection, that 225 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:24.600 dives deeper to something like I'm not safe here. I'm 226 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.519 not safe. I need to do something about this, but 227 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:31.240 only with people that I have this very strong, loving 228 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.080 relationship with nobody else. It doesn't show up anywhere else. 229 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.080 That's why it's so critical to deal with you. 230 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.399 Why do you think that is that it doesn't show 231 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:43.559 up with anybody else? Why does it only show up 232 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:46.759 with the people that are closest to you? 233 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.120 You know? I think it's Uh, it feels very tribal 234 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:52.039 for me. It feels it really does feel like there's 235 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:55.240 a like I'm I'm comfortable and feel safe in my 236 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.000 in my family unit and my close tribe. I don't 237 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:00.320 feel a need to belong in any way to some 238 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.200 bigger tribe, but that lack that safety is important. I'm 239 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:08.879 guessing out why that is. And so. 240 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:14.639 When you shared that with me, what happened for you 241 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.759 in that moment, I can share what happened for me, 242 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.919 but I'm curious just to keep eyes on you for 243 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:21.639 a little bit, or ears on you for a little 244 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:27.519 what happened for you and speaking to the characteristics of 245 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:28.000 the lawyer. 246 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.879 Yeah, well, and to be honest, like, the first thing 247 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.360 I had to overcome was my fear of being misunderstood, right, 248 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.480 like like talking about my fear of being misunderstood. I 249 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.080 had a fear of being misunderstood in this whole thing. 250 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:42.919 Was I going to be able to articulate it in 251 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.559 a way that that was going to be helpful? Or 252 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.559 was I going to was I going to say it? 253 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:50.080 Was I going to say it in a way that 254 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:53.799 would trigger you? All these things are going through my mind. 255 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:57.080 So I had a bit of anxiety and apprehension in 256 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.840 even doing that because the fear that doing it was 257 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.399 the fear itself. So that's part of what I had 258 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.000 to overcome. 259 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:09.120 And so just staying with you for now, Yeah, how 260 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:12.480 did you manage that fear? How did you find the 261 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:17.519 courage to recognize that that was there for you and 262 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:19.639 to step into the conversation. 263 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:23.480 Anyways, predominantly because it wasn't my own idea and that's 264 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:28.000 and this sounds counterintuitive, is just like I had gone 265 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.919 through the pro I've gone through the process of I've 266 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.320 identified something and instead of saying I'm going to try 267 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.759 to find us I'm going to try to intellectualize a 268 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.720 solution for it, I reached. I reached out into the universe. 269 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.480 In this case, you're a therapist and act for guidance. 270 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:44.080 And when that that guidance came through, it felt like 271 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.279 it was coming from a higher place. And so that 272 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.960 in itself gave me sort of the courage or the 273 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.200 faith to like, I'm going to I'm going to this 274 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:54.840 is a fear, but I'm going to push through it. 275 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.480 I feel it's coming from that place. And anytime I've 276 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.919 done that in the past, that's been it's always had 277 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:01.559 a good outcome. 278 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:04.879 Okay, And just so our listeners are clear, because I 279 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:08.279 think this piece is important, it's not because it came 280 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:12.279 from a therapist that you feel comfortable speaking to. It's 281 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:17.000 because what came from the therapist felt really aligned with 282 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:17.879 what was true for you. 283 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.919 Yeah, that's a really good point. And again it's that 284 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.200 thing I'll say, it didn't come from me, right, it 285 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.399 didn't come from my thinking and my own conditioning that 286 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:30.480 was also intertwined in this in the spirit itself. 287 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.600 Okay, and so I just want to speak to what 288 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.000 it feels like a little bit on the receiving end 289 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:43.240 of the introduction to this conversation, because I think, well, 290 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:47.399 I know it's really important, which is when Chris came 291 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.519 to me with this, He came to me with vulnerability. 292 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.440 I've been exploring this with my therapist and she recommended 293 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.039 that we explore it together. Would you be willing to 294 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.600 have a conversation. So already he had set me up 295 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:10.919 in a place where my heart was open. I wasn't defended, 296 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.480 I wasn't ready to attack. I was ready to listen 297 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:20.039 because something was really important to him. And as it 298 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.960 started and he shared some of this piece around not 299 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:27.799 being understood, a part of what happened for me was 300 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.159 a deep desire to understand, which was then to ask 301 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:38.759 a bunch of questions. And I say that because when 302 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:48.279 we in relationship, whether it's friendship or it's partners, even 303 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:53.159 with our kids, when we come together to have important conversations, 304 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:58.039 whatever we can do to create an arena that feels 305 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:01.799 safe and disarming is going to make these conversations so 306 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:07.759 much easier. If Chris is coming to me with there's 307 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.759 something really important and deep that I want to explore. 308 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.240 Will you give me your listening and have a conversation 309 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.680 about it. I'm going to be much more responsive than 310 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:25.079 the lawyer showing up letting me know that I didn't 311 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:29.960 understand him. And for all of these reasons X, Y, 312 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.519 and Z are going to happen, you're not going to 313 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.640 get the same You're not going to get the same response. 314 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.680 And so I'm sharing that because I think the setup 315 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.799 is actually really important. Lots of people often say to us, well, 316 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:46.559 you know, that's great, you guys have this kind of relationship, 317 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:50.440 but what happens when that kind of relationship isn't there. Well, 318 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.720 the setup is really important because it creates the potential 319 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.240 for deeper listening and communication. 320 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.599 Yeah. Yeah, And I would even go further and say 321 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.920 this set and the setup wasn't performative in the sense 322 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.279 that some can be. It is like with all authenticity, 323 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.200 I'm recognizing this trigger resides in me from something from 324 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.119 my experience, my path that's then getting projected onto you 325 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.599 when this happened. So I was legitimately saying I want 326 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:22.400 to explore this thing that's in me. There's no part, 327 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.119 you know, the performative vulnerability. 328 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.079 It was true, and my intention wasn't to say it 329 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.480 was performative. It was just to set things up because 330 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:34.480 we're often asked, well, how do you do that? Well, 331 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:36.680 this is a piece of how we can do that 332 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.319 for you. It was natural. But in many situations, especially 333 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:46.359 as we move into conversations that are really vulnerable or 334 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.680 can be really heated, the setup is actually really important. 335 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.880 Totally. Yeah, and I guess yeah, And I think the 336 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.359 point I didn't make the point Well, the point I 337 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:59.759 was making is you actually have to believe you want 338 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:05.359 to do this work yourself. Yeah. Right, you're actually looking 339 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.880 you're actually looking to change something within you, not the 340 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:14.160 other person, and you're going to be legitimate about that. Absolutely. 341 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:19.920 So what did it feel like for you ultimately to 342 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:27.480 share what the lawyer looked like and how he showed up, 343 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:31.640 and how you wanted partnership around meeting him when he 344 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:32.160 showed up? 345 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.160 Yeah, I mean, much like you you alluded to. Your 346 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:39.160 response to it was so open and so willing and 347 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:44.519 so curious that it immediately any anxiety your fear I 348 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.799 had around it discussing this went away, and then in 349 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:50.000 that moment, for sure, it just felt like, oh I've 350 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:54.279 got I'm like, it's almost like I'm dropping this this 351 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.119 sort of weight I've been carrying around without even knowing it. 352 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.240 This this character, this protector we call the yer, uh 353 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.680 is now it's now not hiding somewhere in me that 354 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.279 emerges in the relationship once in a while. This lawyer 355 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:09.720 is now part of the relationship. This lawyer has come in, 356 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:13.240 he's been he's been identified, he's been introduced, and I'm 357 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.319 sure he'll be back, but the context that he'll come 358 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.519 back and will be very, very different. And we can 359 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.079 then work together to understand what is it your what 360 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.119 is it, what's the lawyer protecting? What's actually going on? 361 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.240 I don't have to do it alone, do it with 362 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.440 you in the sort of this union. So it creates 363 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.279 a you know, a tremendous sense of you know, relief 364 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.720 and dropping this weight, relief and overcoming the fear of 365 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:42.119 discussing something that feels very personal. And then finally, you know, 366 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:45.720 just as it all settles in, uh, this few this 367 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.119 forward looking view that has even more peace in it. 368 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.839 And I just say, on my end, you know, you 369 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.599 spoke about when you get triggered, and we should come 370 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.240 back to have a conversation about triggers in general. But 371 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.119 when you get triggered, some of the behaviors or attitudes 372 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.480 or whatnot that show up are cold, they're patronizing, they're mean. 373 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.359 And what happened for me in that conversation when I 374 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:17.559 was able to meet this character that you describe as 375 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:23.240 a lawyer, what I was able to actually understand is, oh, okay, 376 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.839 So when these qualities start to show up, they're showing 377 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:33.920 up to protect a place that feels very vulnerable. And 378 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.880 if I can actually hear that the lawyer is showing up, 379 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.960 then I know that my husband is feeling really vulnerable. 380 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:48.480 And rather than react to the lawyer, I can respond 381 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.920 to the part that fails rejected or misunderstood and engage 382 00:21:54.920 --> 00:22:01.319 with that part so that the lawyer can quiet. And 383 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:08.759 that's in terms of relationship dynamics, that's huge because that 384 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:15.599 means that my protector doesn't have to wake up and 385 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:20.960 start reacting to yours, but I can actually stay in 386 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.839 a place that's centered in my heart and meet you 387 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:24.839 from that space. 388 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.519 Yeah, and you asked, and you asked me a great question. 389 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.559 As we're going through this, What what is it you 390 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.559 would like for me in those moments? And I had 391 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:34.759 to say with it for a while, and then it 392 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:39.599 came to me, I'd like you to I like you too, 393 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.319 and give your permission to to ask me in those moments, Chris, 394 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:46.359 are you feeling misunderstood right now? And that and that 395 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.880 becomes and that becomes a you know we've agreed upon, 396 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.880 you know, discourse or a phrase that can that can 397 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:57.359 de escalate the situation because in the moments it's happening, 398 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:01.559 I don't know what that's what's happening. But by pointing 399 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.440 it out, I can say, oh, maybe maybe that's what's 400 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.799 going on here, and it just changes the trajectory of everything. 401 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:09.799