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Speaker 1: Fellow sickos. I am Dan Valley coming at you with

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my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. It's twenty

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twenty five NBA trade did my big board time. I

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pitched Grant on this idea, only for him to inform

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me that Sam Vessini of The Athletic also made one,

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so we did not. I guess we cribbed it from him,

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but I cribbed it unknowingly at least that's the case

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that I'll plead mister Hughes before we get started, how

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the heck are you? I'm doing well?

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 3: We talked before we started recording, just fresh off of

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robust discord discussion that I was really enjoying. And I

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did note in there that I had to leave because

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I had to go talk about trades with some cicco

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and that was appreciated too. We'll talk about that later

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some of the top Hopefully. I don't think it's going

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to be a stale topic because it seems like it's

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been a big one all season, or at least a

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couple of them. But kind of energized by that, so

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excited to talk about that towards the.

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Speaker 2: End of this and also excited to like get.

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Speaker 3: Organized with trade season that's like fully here and seems

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like it sort of has been for a while and

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kinda I don't know, I like to get this. I

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like to sort of get ducks in a row trade

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wise before everything goes to you know, gets a little

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too chaotic.

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Speaker 2: So hopefully that'll be helpful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this season, how are you? Sorry?

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: I'm great, I'm the same as you, although maybe still

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a little bit healthier. It sounds like probably, so I'm

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with you. But this year it's I know that some

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of the apron limitations were in place already, but this

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is the first year where everything's kind of in play,

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and so that makes prep even more important. But then

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you also kind of have to balance where it stresses

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me out because I feel not out of my element,

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but I'm used to just being so much more. I

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don't need as much prep when thinking about which team

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can do what as I will this year. And then

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you also have to resist the impulse to explain everything

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because quite frankly, I think we've seen like our audience

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doesn't necessarily there's look the sickos and discord go join

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it and other people who care about this, but the

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minutia of getting into it, I don't expect most of

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our listeners to care about it, and so the impetus

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I have to explain all this stuff that I'm trying

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to figure out behind the scenes. I've gotten better at

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resisting it, believe it or not, even though I go

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on tangents all the time. But that's something I'm struggling

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with even more this year.

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Speaker 3: It's funny, like, you know, trade talks and that whole

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side of covering the league has for a long time

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now we like joke about it. How it's just like

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that's what gets traffic, that's what people want to talk about,

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and it's I think outside of a small subsection of people,

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it's like it's not because they're interested in like how

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do you match salary and what are the rules? It's

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just like my player needs this. What players out there could?

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Speaker 2: I get? That's fun.

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Speaker 3: It's like the two kification of the league. And so yeah,

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now when you talk about these trades, it's just like

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you have to ignore I think if you want to

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keep it in the realm of what people are interested

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in about trades, you have to just like just like

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you should get like a counter on how many times

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you're allowed to say second apron or aggregate or whatever,

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because like, I don't think people care about that. It

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sucks that though, like that is just part of it now,

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and so I think we should make a pledge to

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try to not get into the weeds too much and

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try to stay more focused on to the extent that's

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even going to be possible, we'll see on just the

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like what people actually enjoy about talking about trade stuff.

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It's just like, let's get this guy there and see

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what happens. Like that's fun, right, You got to kind

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of stick to that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I hate being the bear bear news though, where you

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do see people post trades and ask you about it's like, no,

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Milwaukee can't trade two players at once.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's like ninety nine percent.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the fake trade economy is in a weird

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spot right now because the one almost all of them

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that you see out there are just like, yeah, that's

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not legal.

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Speaker 2: That literally cannot happen. Thanks new CBA.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to describe to the kids, the impressionable

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youths listening and watching how we approached our NBA trade

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Deadline big board.

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Speaker 3: So it's not necessarily a ranking of the best players.

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It comes fairly close to that because I think and

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you can amend this however you like or add to it,

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but it's really just like they're here one based on

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So you're not here if there's not a decent volume

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with you know, solid credibility of you being in rumors

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or speculation or whatever. It's the names that we've probably

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heard swirling around most that aren't just like pulled out

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of thin air. It's it's it's and you'll hopefully there

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won't be any surprises here to the listeners and viewers,

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like these are names you've concluded.

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Speaker 1: A few bombs in here just to see like why

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why is Lebron ranked at number twenty seven? Well, well,

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and we'll.

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Speaker 3: Also at some point later do like, hey, why aren't

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these guys not on this edition? But why aren't these

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guys on a big board? It's just they haven't really

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discussed we think maybe they should be. And then if

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you've made the board. I think the quick and dirty

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way to describe the ranking system is just like what

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could you what would you fetch on the market, Like

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what what kinds of offers are we hearing discussed like

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what's your what's your value? So like you know, and

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that even really has some it's it's not that simple

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because like, well there's picks involved for some guys and

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their salaries for others, and just like what's the return

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package look like? And hopefully we've got this organized in

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a way that is pretty close to like biggest return

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package at the top, descending order going down, because that's

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going to price in all the things you'd normally think about,

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which are how old is this player, how long is

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the under contract is? What's his contract relative to his production?

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Like all that stuff right, So that I think is

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are the two kind of sets of ranking criteria we

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have here.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I would add to is we did

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exclude I would say we looked at this through or

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tried it. For the most part, there's like a standalone

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value lens where it's all these players are not I'll

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use the Pacers as an example. There's been speculation about

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Bennett Mathern and Jarris Walker. I don't believe that the Pacers, though,

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would just trade those guys to get picks back, Like

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you're trading those guys as part of a larger consolidation move,

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so they don't make our trade deadline big Board because

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you're not I hate using the verbiage of selling people,

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but you're not auctioning off this player. These are mostly

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populated by teams that are looking to sell or contract

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situations maybe that have forced hands.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I think that's a good distinction to make.

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Speaker 1: And with that, let's get started. Standard big board rules apply.

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Is it standard? I guess people have a top fifty

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big board. We just went thirty deep. I will alternate.

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I guess the reveals and moving on. So I'll just

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begin it at number one. I don't think this will

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be debatable, mister Hughes, but we are going with Jimmy

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Butler hair color.

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Speaker 3: Watch, which, by the way, like I mean, I don't know,

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did you take the changing hair color things as anything

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but like pretty classic Jimmy trolling?

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Speaker 2: Or is there like I want out and this is

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the team I'm choosing.

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Speaker 1: So it would have if he did it purple, it

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would have made more sense. But because it's orange, I know,

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orange isn't necessarily a primary heat color, but like that

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yellow that they have, it can look kind of orange, Okay,

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And so I just didn't, I thought. But it's also

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so we've seen him use his appearance to send message

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messages control people before, so I understand it. But if

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if he really wanted to stir up discussion, like Dallas

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Maverick's blue or something, it is blue.

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Speaker 3: For a minute, though before orange there was blue. Yeah,

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for like a day. It wasn't when you you know,

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when you're searching for photos to put in articles like

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the Getty stuff or whatever, there's.

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Speaker 2: Some blue in there.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, man, I didn't see the blue.

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I saw the I saw the orange. Well, then that's

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the way to send up. But then he should have

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because orange had to be of his list of teams,

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the Suns, he should have done it purple then if

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he was, I mean the problem maybe you want to

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get Kings fans hopes up.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps, Well that's.

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Speaker 3: The problem is so many teams have so many different

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jerseys now, like almost any color you chose could be like,

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oh well, the Sun's city edition alternates from twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Where blue? So that must you know.

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Speaker 1: He said he wants to go to the Thunder too.

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That's how we should have taken the arms right.

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Speaker 3: Thunder could do it debate here though, I mean, well,

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did you want to put up number two? Just well,

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because that's the only that's the only debate I could

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really think about between So Jimmy Butler's one, I think

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I think, first of all, before we do that, you're

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right to have him one. His name has been the

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most discussed recently, Like he's the only guy where we've

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gotten the here's the list of teams he might want

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to go to at this level of the big board.

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So like that that warrants being number one. And then

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the only debate is really like is the package that

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Miami can get for him being on essentially an expiring

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contract that we should talk about too, Like you know,

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the Ingram's deal. Ingram deals have been scuttled because people

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don't want to pay his next deal. You're you're signing

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up for that with Butler too. It's not as long

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because the over thirty eight rule, but per you know,

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per year, you're probably talking more than you're going to

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be giving Ingram wherever he signs next. So that's a factor.

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He's said he's gonna hit free agency. That's another factor.

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So you might just be renting. I still I'm still

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inclined to think this is the biggest, Like what we

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sent out for Butler eventually, assuming he gets traded, will

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probably be a bigger package than anybody else sends out

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for anyone else, Right.

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Speaker 1: I would say yes, just unless there's a name like

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Anthony Davis ambling onto the trade market that we haven't

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seen yet. Because but it is fascinating because he's thirty

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five and the contract situation, but he's still if you

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compare him to Brandon Ingram, who spoiler alert, is not

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next and like Brenninger's been on the trade block for

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it feels like roughly forever, or at least theoretically on

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the trade block forever. He's the most bankable option even

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of when you're looking at some of the cheaper, higher

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end players. Yeah, other teams might if you don't want

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to go all in, you're gonna prefer looking at someone

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with a middle end salary who maybe plays the wing

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and hits the reason and that's it. But he is

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when you're just look at his playoff track record too.

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I know he's older, I know he's gonna hit free agency.

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That was like to mention the contract he's there was

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Player options fifty two point four million this summer. I'm

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assuming he won't, like I guess because the deal is

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so short, has to be so sure he might end

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up getting max money, but like you're probably looking at

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it at least forty million a year for him, right,

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I would assume so.

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Speaker 2: And this is maybe another thing we didn't really talk about.

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Would you say that.

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Speaker 3: Ingram or Levine or Butler have like a broader number

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of teams that would realistically trade for them, because often

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that's a factor in like driving up market value, as

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you just have like the number of bidders or number

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of interested parties might make offers higher because I don't

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I mean, Butler does not should not have appeal to

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like a large swath of the league because of his aige,

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because of the cost. Like if you're in the middle

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and you think he puts you over the top, then

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you're interested. But like rebuilders know this nonsense about like

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he's interested in signing with Brooklyn or something that was

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out there, Like no, like why do the Nets have

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any interest in that? Let alone, Like they have the

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most cap space, they don't probably have enough to sign

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him to begin with, so.

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Speaker 2: Like how do you weigh that?

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Speaker 3: Like because I do think like even someone like Ingram

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just makes more sense on a UTAH, for example, than

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Butler does. So is there a case that Butler should

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be lower for that reason? Or do we stick to

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the the size of the offer?

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Speaker 1: I would say in some instances that matters, this isn't

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one of them. And I actually think in a lot

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of it says it takes one team. Yeah, and so

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what's more likely that one team's going to go in

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all in on Jimmy Butler or Brandon Ingram? And the

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answer to me would be pretty clearly Jimmy Butler. And

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so I get it, But like brand ingerm specifically is

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tough because that dude is just I Also, you have

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to weigh the scalability of the fit too, which I

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think factors into the demand that you're talking about. Where Jimmy,

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I think we tend to conflate scalability with shooting, which is,

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you know there is some there's a relationship there. But

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like Jimmy is not a high volume shooter, but like

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he can fit probably anywhere I would like. He doesn't

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need to be in your traditional pick and roll offense.

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He doesn't need to be on the ball all the time.

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And I think his offensive performance doesn't normally inform his

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defensive efforts, so I think that's also what makes him

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super appealing. Whereas with brandon Ingram, and we'll get to him,

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he's coming up and this, but like, how many teams

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do you think brandon Ingram can realistically fit on without

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having to have said team retailer so much of.

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Speaker 3: What it's doing that that's a great point, like we

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really do brandon Ingram better shooter, so therefore, oh, he

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fits in more places. And then Butler is just the

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exception to that rule because he's not taking anything off

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the table if he's not on the ball, looking to

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get his own right, like he's a cutter defense, Like

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space is enough when the games matter. You know, we've

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talked about that all the time. You mentioned his playoff

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three point shoot, Like I think usually it's not far

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off the mark to focus on, like, well, can this

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guy space the floor if he's off the ball, If yes,

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he's scalable, Like that's usually a pretty good shorthand. But

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that's not how this works for these particular guys.

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Speaker 1: I think Number one and arguable to me, I think

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we're about to get into an interesting portion okay, if

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you want to take us to number two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Zach Levine's at number two I think now.

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Speaker 3: And it's easy to say because he's playing really well

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the market. It like if you look at where we were,

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which is Bobby Mark saying the market is what I mean?

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We always have how many times we joked about this,

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Like I don't think Bobby Mark said it might have

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been Wojes back in the day saying the market's barren.

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Bobby Mark's talking about the bulls needing to give up

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first to get off of Zach Lavine. We've It's to

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the point now where two years and ninety five left,

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that's a lot. That's that's superstar money. I don't know

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if Levin. I do know Levin is not like a

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number one option superstar on a good team. He is

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exceptionally scalable because of his shooting and his on the

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move shooting. I don't think that price is as onerous

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as it seems. It's worse now in the you know,

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various hard capping and apron environments than it.

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Speaker 2: Used to be. But I do think the.

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Speaker 3: Bulls should be able to get it, like in a vacuum.

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Certainly they should be able to get a first for

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him and like not bad salary, which.

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Speaker 2: Is very different from where we were.

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Speaker 3: I will concede, it's still harder if we're talking about

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the specific circumstances of the league right now, where no

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teams just are terrified to spend too much and like

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the fits just aren't great salary wise.

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Speaker 2: But I actually, I actually feel very.

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Speaker 3: Good about him being second. And I was going to say, like,

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is there a case for him over Butler? I just

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don't if you're imagining the offers out there, I don't

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think Levine's gonna get as much as Butler will. But

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I mean, is he the safer investment potentially just because

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you have two guaranteed years like that, that's not nothing

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with Butler potentially just leaving wherever he lands.

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Speaker 1: And is there also this is certainly an argument for

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him over brandon Ingram, of course, But who do you

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trust this has This is a form of scalability. It's

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not the entire thing, to be clear, But who do

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you have more confidence in that their game or they

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could be impactful when they're scaled down? Yeah, would it

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be Butler on offense? Specifically? Would it be Butler or Levine?

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Speaker 2: I think probably still Butler.

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Speaker 3: But but I just Butler's just a cut above, like

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he's in a separate level at least right now. The

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age is another factor. Levine looks healthy. He's missed very

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few games this year, so like Butler could break down

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or by the way, this is why part of the

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reason the heat are where they are with Butler is

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because of his durability, which you know has been an issue.

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Levine hasn't been an iron man, but like he's healthy

340
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now and he's younger, so I don't know. I think

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it's still Butler, but maybe the question is Levine or Ingram,

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Like who do you like better as a scaled down

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threat there?

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Speaker 1: I think it's Levine by far, because what does Brendon

345
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Ingram do without the ball right in his hands? And

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the other thing is, I don't know if this is spicy,

347
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but like Zach Lavine is probably a better one on

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one defender than brend and Ingram. I think there's always

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the off ball stuff with Zack Lvine, but if you

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go you can watch too. I mean, the Bulls defense

351
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,120
is awful, but like Zaqulvine is also playing I wouldn't

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say out of position, but like he's a guard's someone

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that I view on certain teams. Yeah, he can scale

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up to the wings, but the Bulls are not one

355
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of those teams. There's just there's always gonna be the

356
00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:08,240
off ball apses with him. But if you start even

357
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,600
to dig into the numbers after watching, he's navigating screens

358
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better than he has in a couple of years. And

359
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,559
just the individual defense in so far as you're able

360
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,600
to lock in on those, it hasn't been terrible. And

361
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I would just argue that I don't think Brandon, like,

362
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what does Brandon Ingram give you defensively?

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Speaker 3: It's all it's kind of theoretical, right, because he's got

364
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,159
always he's got the link. He could be disruptive somehow.

365
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,600
You're just but it just really hasn't happened. I think

366
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maybe the edge Ingram has, although it probably comes with caveats,

367
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is he is a better passer and has better facilitation

368
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numbers than Lavin does, because Leavin, you know, is in

369
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the four assist per game range, has been there several times.

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Speaker 2: But it's like we always knock him, and I think

371
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:49,879
fairly for.

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Speaker 3: Being like a he's gonna make the one read pass

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and and I think Ingram might be a little better

374
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at just like mapping the floor, you know, seeing the

375
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pass before the as type thing. But that's that's really

376
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,759
not what either of these guys. That's not the skill

377
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:07,359
any team is like really, you know, focusing on if

378
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,799
you're trading for either of these guys, just a small thing.

379
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Speaker 1: No, And I think the bigger, bigger thing for Levine

380
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,119
of course it's the offense, but it's like the dynamic

381
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,680
shot making of he gives you more rim pressure than

382
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,079
Brandingham at this point. So if you put him on

383
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,559
a team with I mean like with super charge spacing

384
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,480
or something or someone who else is like if you

385
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,039
put him on the Nuggets, which has been a team,

386
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,240
I think the fit is questionable going from him and

387
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,200
Michael Porter Junior when you're talking about what does that

388
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,319
impact have on the defense your size in general, But

389
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,839
like him being able to get to the basket, he

390
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,119
does that better than MPJ. And but he also just

391
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,720
the self created shots, I mean he's shooting. His effective

392
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,000
field goal percentage on self created jumpers is fifty seven

393
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:47,160
point four and among the fifty nine players that have

394
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,000
taken at least one hundred of those looks, he's fifth

395
00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:52,680
in efficiency that is absurd.

396
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 3: He's a throwback like Slasher right on a good team

397
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,039
where it's like the ball gets swung to him because

398
00:17:58,039 --> 00:18:00,240
he's not your number one option and he's gonna hit

399
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,160
that three, or everyone's freaked out about him hitting the

400
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,799
three so they close out hard and he's dunking in

401
00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:09,279
a half a set like that's really it almost feels

402
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:12,240
like we haven't seen the best version of Zach Lavine

403
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,319
because it's almost and maybe this is his fault for

404
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,920
wanting to be something else, but doesn't it seem like

405
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,000
he really would excel just as a luxury second third

406
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,960
option who's just like feasting on defensive attention being somewhere

407
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,640
else like that, that really feels like the best version

408
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,160
of him to me, who is.

409
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,160
Speaker 1: The best number one or teammate he's ever played with?

410
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:36,279
Is it still Towns?

411
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 3: I was gonna that's been so long like he did

412
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,759
overlap with Towns. Yeah, because Towns has been in the

413
00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:43,839
league longer than you think. Uh, I don't know. I

414
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,880
mean like, yeah, if Towns. If you think Towns is

415
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,599
better than DeRozan, it's probably Towns.

416
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,559
Speaker 2: Who else is he?

417
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 3: Like?

418
00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:52,039
Speaker 2: Who else were we even thinking about? I think that

419
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,960
that's kind of it, right.

420
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Speaker 1: And I guess the argument would be, Okay, so he's

421
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,359
been in I mean in Chicago, like when DeRozan was there,

422
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,000
he's been someone who's been a number two technically.

423
00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:03,519
Speaker 2: I mean, DeRozan is a weird guy to play with,

424
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,079
like as a number one.

425
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,759
Speaker 1: Thing is, so we just really haven't seen and he's

426
00:19:07,799 --> 00:19:10,119
certainly never been in a situation where he can be

427
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,960
on the floor and for extended stretches be the number three.

428
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,279
Speaker 2: No, because that.

429
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: In Denver you could argue that would happen, and on

430
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,720
other teams you'd argue that would happen. And by the way,

431
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:23,240
relative to Ingram, don't you value that he still has

432
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,119
that extra year left on his deal, whereas do you

433
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,680
prefer Yes, Okay, he might be overpaid, but it's two

434
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,599
more years after this one versus well, now we got

435
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,160
to figure out what to pay and for how long

436
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,119
to pay Brandan Ingram after this season.

437
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 3: I think so, although like I think so, the concern

438
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,079
would be we're in exactly the same place next year

439
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,599
where a forty five million I think he's forty eight

440
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,680
next year on the last year of his deal, where

441
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,559
that's just because of the aprons and all the cap

442
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,319
environment and all these teams just being stuck and immobile

443
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:59,960
and inflexible, where that number is just like, oh my god,

444
00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:01,519
do we have to pay to get off this now?

445
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: Still I don't think that's the case.

446
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 3: I value the security because with with Ingram, with Butler,

447
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,640
even although you would imagine that in either case, wherever

448
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,160
they go, there's a been discussions about here's what we're

449
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:14,720
willing to do.

450
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 2: Are we good with that?

451
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 3: And the flight risk isn't the rental risk isn't as

452
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,319
big as maybe it seems. I still value just I

453
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,200
have control, like this is not an asset that I

454
00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:27,440
risk losing for nothing.

455
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's just me being risk averse.

456
00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:32,559
Speaker 1: And also, if he's going to opt out, it either

457
00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:34,839
means that he played so well that maybe don't care

458
00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:37,000
because I found years of player option, or traditionally when

459
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:38,839
that happens, maybe it's because that number is actually going

460
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,359
to come down because he's a green to re sign

461
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,240
on a longer deal for a smaller number.

462
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like the extra year.

463
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:46,599
Speaker 1: By the way, the team that I really want to

464
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:49,559
say he gets zach Lavine now I want him on

465
00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:52,519
the Pistons. Like Kim Hardaway, Junior Fontacio and Jay and

466
00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:54,640
Ivy for Lavine, let's call it in Well.

467
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,559
Speaker 3: He's just the ultra ultra like premium version of the

468
00:20:57,559 --> 00:21:00,200
Beasley's and the Hardaways and the guys they've tried to

469
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,559
stick around that core.

470
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: But he might be able to lead because the offense's

471
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,359
been so bad, hasn't been great with Kate n Jayden

472
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,359
when Ivy's healthy, and then when you run Ivy alone,

473
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,039
like the offense is in the twenty second percent time whatever,

474
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,839
zacclviem probably a better chance of propping up those units.

475
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,680
I think at the stage number three, Cam Johnson, is

476
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,440
that controversial at all?

477
00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:22,319
Speaker 2: Here it is for you because you thought it was

478
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,160
Brandon Ingram. No, I think let's we have to do the.

479
00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 3: Ingram versus Johnson discussion. Right, it's just the for for

480
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,960
Johnson is we've used the word scalable. This guy is

481
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,680
like actually almost like definitionally scalable because he's mostly the

482
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,440
biggest value is catch and shoot player that's passable on

483
00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:44,079
defense at either forward spot, like that's okay, cool, Like

484
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,799
excellent role player, which means wide market.

485
00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:50,079
Speaker 2: The salary is in a range.

486
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 3: That's not like I don't think he's overpaid, and he's

487
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,240
got a couple of years at two years forty five

488
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,119
point two million left.

489
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: If you're not watching, if you're just listening.

490
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 3: I think it's still a discussion between him and Ingram,

491
00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:08,400
just because Ingram is viewed as more of like a star,

492
00:22:08,759 --> 00:22:13,960
I guess. Uh. But to me, the cost, the plug

493
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,759
and play status of Johnson's game, it's just I think

494
00:22:16,759 --> 00:22:18,480
it just recommends him over Ingram.

495
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 2: And you're not worried about like, are.

496
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 3: We just not going to be able to meet the

497
00:22:23,759 --> 00:22:26,160
demands for his next salary and next contract.

498
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with everything you said. And the

499
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,480
other thing that I do wonder though, is what do

500
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,920
you view Cam Johnson as positionally? Like is this do

501
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,799
you consider him a wing or is it we just

502
00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:40,039
had this discussion during our mailbag, or is he a forward?

503
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,799
Because I think with Brandon Ingram, you can consider him

504
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:45,359
a wing and maybe that would drive up his appeal.

505
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,960
Whereas Cam, you mentioned he could be passable defensively, but

506
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,160
he's not like a great rebounder. He's also not great defensively,

507
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:54,680
and so do you yeah, okay, on offense he can

508
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,640
be a two three four really whatever you want him

509
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,359
to be, but he can't be that defensively.

510
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,799
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean you're just asking I think, what

511
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,559
position does he defend? And I think, like, he's definitely

512
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:10,200
not someone you're comfortable with on the other team's best

513
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,799
forward or best wing, so you're gonna be hiding is

514
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,200
too strong, but like you're definitely going to be looking

515
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,000
for assignments for him that are not you know, like

516
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,480
high volume shooters and scorers. I still think, like maybe

517
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,079
the question is, can you put him in a switch

518
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:29,480
of a switching defense and just like be okay there,

519
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,960
I think probably I feel like the answer is yes,

520
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,400
Like he's not going to be a difference maker, but

521
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,519
I don't. I think people's opinions of Cam Johnson since

522
00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:40,240
he's been in Phoenix have been all over the map defensively,

523
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,160
and we you and I have definitely talked about he's

524
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,559
just a four sometimes right, like that's just where he belongs.

525
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:50,160
I guess I I guess I would say I don't

526
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,480
feel worse about him defensively than I do about Ingram

527
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,440
or Levine, Like I think he's probably at least as

528
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,759
good or probably better than either of those guys. So

529
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:01,599
it is tough, like's not He's not gonna make your defense.

530
00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:03,039
I don't think he's gonna break it either.

531
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,839
Speaker 1: Though I also think you mentioned this at the top

532
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,240
would inflate his ranking. Is how many teams will want

533
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:13,559
him because the numbers so much like if you're going

534
00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:17,079
for Lavigne or Ingram or Butler, it's more of a

535
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:20,240
wholesale move where you're either like, it's not like you're

536
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,799
trying to tip the scales ever so slightly in your

537
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:25,759
favor with a finishing touch. If you're going for Butler,

538
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:27,799
it's we need this guy if we want to contend

539
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,960
or take that next step, whereas Cam Johnson is viewed

540
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,319
more as a cherry on top and so more teams.

541
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,119
He's just more accessible, and then more teams are going

542
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:36,440
to be.

543
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: Interested in him. Do you think that?

544
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 3: Do you think he's more likely to be traded than

545
00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:43,599
all three of the guys we just talked about for

546
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,000
that reason? We know which is weird? Right, Like, right,

547
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:49,359
why isn't this guy getting traded? Maybe it's just because

548
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,359
Brooklyn says, we'll just try again next year. That's the

549
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,720
other thing, right, Like they Brooklyn, it's probably gonna be

550
00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:57,319
bad for two straight years. So they don't need to

551
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,880
rush into to well, we can't get a first form,

552
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:01,319
so we can just hold on to him.

553
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,599
Speaker 1: I think honestly they probably can't. They can definitely get

554
00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,559
a first for him. But if you're not like now,

555
00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:09,079
I think you move him if you get the equivalent

556
00:25:09,079 --> 00:25:11,359
of what you think is two firsts or close to it,

557
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,440
even if you're taking back bad money. And if that's

558
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,400
not on the table. If you were going to get

559
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,960
one first round pick for Cam Johnson right now, you

560
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,920
can get one first round pick for Cam Johnson over

561
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,160
the summer next season.

562
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 2: That's true.

563
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: Now we're finally on to number four, which is Brendon Ingram.

564
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,200
I don't sorry, that was yours.

565
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 3: I say so we've kind of covered it, like we've

566
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,480
talked about all the Ingram dimensions here. Question that to

567
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:38,880
me is can New Orleans get a first coming back?

568
00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:42,799
I think matching money is probably doable, but like, do

569
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:45,079
you really trade him if you're getting matching money that

570
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,480
comes off in like seconds? I mean, I don't know,

571
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:50,960
Like you at least hold on to you can sign

572
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,480
and trade him if you don't like what you have now, I.

573
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,039
Speaker 1: Would say, if that's the offer, for sure, I just

574
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,519
don't what are you gaining gaining by squol using him

575
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:02,920
in free agency? You're still left with this player who

576
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:05,680
might be on a deal that's like, what is the

577
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,000
contract he signs that makes him a hotter trade commodity

578
00:26:09,319 --> 00:26:11,880
and you know he's not a fit for what you're

579
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,720
trying to build or are you deciding hey like buys

580
00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:19,720
Ion and like brand Ingram and Jante Murray and Trey

581
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:21,559
Murphy and Herb Jones of the future, not even know

582
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,000
if he makes sense in that type of a setup.

583
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,359
It's I think they missed the window to get like

584
00:26:28,519 --> 00:26:30,720
a first round pick for Brandon Ingram. Have they made

585
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,279
this decision a year ago or more when they probably

586
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:36,200
should have, it'd be easier. But I think that's what's

587
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,880
also tough is we're trying to rank this what's really

588
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,359
inflating his value is his utility as an on ball player.

589
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,240
And it's also just like this guy doesn't have a

590
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,640
wide we have proof of concept, like what teams have

591
00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:52,960
even been mentioned? The only team I've heard, like tangibly

592
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,640
like through the ether and then actually reading was the

593
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,400
Jazz might have been in on him, but he didn't

594
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,279
want to go to Utah what other team has been

595
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:02,839
just concrete linked as we want, apparently the Nuggets, which

596
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:03,839
just makes zero sense.

597
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,839
Speaker 3: But well, I mean, yeah, I don't get. I mean,

598
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,160
this is why we are where we are. Like we've

599
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,119
seen the problem with New Orleans holistically is like they

600
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,599
just can't get everybody out there together for long, long

601
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,359
stretches to see how good this team can be. And

602
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,759
when they have, like it looked you know, good and well,

603
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:23,400
I guess what last year for a little while.

604
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,799
Speaker 2: But like nobody feels great about him as a number one.

605
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: There's all these complications with him as a number two

606
00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:32,559
or number three, because like the things he does well

607
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:35,480
are just number one things. It's a little bit like DeRozan,

608
00:27:35,559 --> 00:27:39,200
except de Rosen's just better at the like the self

609
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,839
generated two point jumpers type of thing. That's just like

610
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,440
I don't know what team is clamoring for that at

611
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,519
the at the you know number that's higher than his

612
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:51,000
thirty six million a year right now, which is what

613
00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:52,319
you're probably gonna have to do.

614
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: I don't know.

615
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: It's just I feel like his market is suppressed for

616
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,559
both like fair and unfair reasons. Like part of it

617
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:01,079
is just no, there's no teams with free agent money

618
00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:03,559
to spend next summer, So like the Pelicans are kind

619
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:06,400
of like, okay, like who's gonna you know, if we

620
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,400
can just hold on to this for as long as

621
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,440
we want, maybe things turn around, maybe we can get

622
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,079
back to where you're worth a first But like, his

623
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,000
game really is just hard to find a great fit

624
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,279
for right for the price that it seems like it's

625
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:18,759
gonna take.

626
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just and what do you think he

627
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:24,319
gets in his next deal?

628
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:25,559
Speaker 2: Is it?

629
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,519
Speaker 1: Do you think he's making as much money as he's

630
00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:30,279
making this season, which he is at what is he thirty?

631
00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:33,400
He's at thirty three? Right, so yeah, he's at thirty six,

632
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:35,960
thirty six? Yeah?

633
00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:38,519
Speaker 2: Is he? Well it's like what are comps out? That's

634
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:38,960
the other thing.

635
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,759
Speaker 3: It's like I was thinking, like, okay, so what's Jeremy

636
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:42,519
Grant getting? And he's like up over what is he

637
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,960
thirty one? Is it more than that? I can't remember

638
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:45,240
to be.

639
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: Up for thirty four next season?

640
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: Whatever? He's that now?

641
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,559
Speaker 3: And like that's a hard deal to trade now, right

642
00:28:49,559 --> 00:28:52,279
because Grant's older. But like theoretically Grant brought more defense,

643
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:55,599
more versatility, much more scalability, So like.

644
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,519
Speaker 2: Is that a good comp I don't know. I guess me.

645
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,359
Speaker 3: Is the over under thirty million a year on brandon

646
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,880
Ingram's next deal? What do you where do twenty nine

647
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,200
point five million dollars a year?

648
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:06,119
Speaker 2: You where do you go?

649
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just take the over because I feel like

650
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,240
even when there's not markets, there ends up being markets.

651
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:14,000
So I'm gonna take the over. But I don't feel

652
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,559
great about it, which because I do think he's a

653
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:17,559
really good player. But we're at a point now where

654
00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:19,160
if you can't be a number one option a really

655
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,440
good team and you're not built or wired to scale

656
00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:25,440
down or in different types of roles, I really do

657
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,880
think it impacts your market value. And just we're not

658
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,480
going to bring up the restrictions all the time, but

659
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:33,839
with how more complex the salary cap picture is for teams,

660
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,960
I think that also hurts his value too.

661
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,759
Speaker 3: Is it possible that we're not that far away from

662
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:43,400
him being undervalued because like, he's not a bad player,

663
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,920
it's just tricky and he's not cheap because he can

664
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,200
do a handful of things like most guys can't. I

665
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:53,000
just wonder if whoever signs him, say he hits free agency,

666
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,200
say there's no trade whoever signs him, because again the

667
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,200
Nets have like forty million, san Antonio can get there.

668
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,680
But like, there's not gonna be a bidding war. He's

669
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,599
not gonna be a mid level guy. But somebody is

670
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:07,880
gonna get him for I agree, probably less thirty or less,

671
00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:10,440
and we might just end up talking about like, can

672
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,400
you believe that the Pelicans couldn't get value for him?

673
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,920
Look how good he is on Team X in twenty five,

674
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,400
twenty six, like that that's not out of the realm

675
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,359
of possibility to me.

676
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,119
Speaker 1: No, I'm totally with you there. His situation is just

677
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:24,759
so complex and I don't know if it's hurt him that,

678
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,279
Like I kind of thought a team would emerge, maybe

679
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:30,240
they had an injury, there's like we need brandon Ingram, Yeah,

680
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,359
and that team hasn't happened. I've started wondering if if

681
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,559
the Heat moved Jimmy Butler, and not that they like

682
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,480
the Pelicans should want Jimmy Butler, but as part of

683
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:43,240
a three or four team construction, where if you're moving

684
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:45,440
Jimmy Butler and you're the Heat, we know you're not

685
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,799
getting your picks back, and like you already have two

686
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,200
out first round picks. Would you want brandon Ingram back

687
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,720
as he'll probably be cheaper than Butler, he's younger, he

688
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:55,680
doesn't he's not a Butler fact simply, I want to

689
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,599
be clear. But they are going to need someone else

690
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,240
who could generate offense, and so would they be if

691
00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:02,960
they know they're also not gonna get because at this rate,

692
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,200
with Jimmy's age, his contract situation, and just the way

693
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,480
that this is ending. Unless it's like maybe there are

694
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:10,920
one or two teams that will give up a ton

695
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,599
for Jimmy Butler. But I don't even know what Jimmy

696
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:15,079
Butler gets you on the trade, Marvey, right now, you

697
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,000
brandon Ingram because then if it doesn't work out, oh,

698
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,279
he's at least expiring. That's a situation I've kind of

699
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:23,880
thought more about. But it's so bizarre that a player

700
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:26,559
as good in a vacuum as brandon Ingram that that

701
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:30,200
I'm struggling so hard. It's it's almost like an extension

702
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,400
of Julius Randall a lot of the time, but brandon

703
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:36,559
Ingram brandan Ingram's fatal flaw feels so fixable. Or dude,

704
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,920
play off the ball better and take two more catches

705
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,039
you threes, right, dribble a little.

706
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,119
Speaker 3: Less, you shoot as much as you want, just make

707
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,920
sure it's from behind the line like that.

708
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I agree.

709
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 3: In Miami is always an interesting one because it's it's

710
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,160
maybe an aged out assumption now, but you just you

711
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,960
it's easy to catch yourself thinking like, if.

712
00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: He could just get there, they'll figure out.

713
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: How to get the best version of him, because we've

714
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,519
seen like you can get the best out of Dion Waiders,

715
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:01,519
you can get the US at a at A brandon.

716
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: Ingrol number five. I think he's gonna I had no

717
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:06,000
clue where we were gonna put this guy, but Zion

718
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,079
is apparently available. I did find that, I don't know

719
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:11,799
if you read the Steinlines report that the only untouchable

720
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:14,920
players in New Orleans or Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, and

721
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,440
East mecI, which he's having a great season. I've just

722
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,759
found in money that he was looped in to there.

723
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,119
Zion's tricky because he's got three years and one hundred

724
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,880
and twenty six and a half million left on his deal.

725
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,920
There's those are non guaranteed, but like we still don't

726
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,920
necessarily know the exact criteria that you would be able

727
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:34,319
just to get wipe him off your books. And by

728
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:37,640
the way, if that was the case, why would New

729
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:39,400
Orleans trade him? I might just want that money off

730
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,279
the books. And the other thing too, is you're probably

731
00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:46,359
trading him. I don't know, is this the nader of

732
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,480
his value just because it's another injury.

733
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,279
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's fat.

734
00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: He's fascinating, like, because the answer to is it the

735
00:32:54,319 --> 00:33:00,319
nader depends on whether you view his like wipe off

736
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,400
the book's clause as a.

737
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,559
Speaker 2: Positive or like it's how do you how do you

738
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,920
view that? Because it is like a you do get

739
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,240
a do.

740
00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:11,079
Speaker 3: Over if you trade for him and and it goes

741
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:13,599
and it's like, oh, it's another hamstring on day one

742
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,640
of training camp. He's going to be out another six

743
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,920
months or whatever. Like you can just say like, we're good.

744
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,720
Although I forget what the guarantee date is. I think

745
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:23,440
it's it's July in July for twenty five, twenty six,

746
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,119
but I think you have similar non guarantees going forward.

747
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,640
Like that's such a weird thing to value in someone

748
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,599
you're gonna trade a lot for. Though it's like, wow,

749
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,279
if this goes bad, we can get out of it,

750
00:33:36,319 --> 00:33:38,319
but you've still given up the assets you did to

751
00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:38,720
get him.

752
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: I don't know how to value him.

753
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 3: He does, though, doesn't he feel like the guy that

754
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,480
if I don't know what the team is, but someone

755
00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:51,319
goes three firsts expiring salary for Zion, where at least

756
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:52,839
in the back of your mind or in like the

757
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,319
last paragraph of your analysis, you'd have to concede, like

758
00:33:56,119 --> 00:33:58,039
they might have just traded for a top ten player

759
00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:00,160
if he's healthy. Like, I mean, I don't know what

760
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,319
the percentage chance that is. I think we're both kind

761
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:05,039
of like out on the Zion experience, but at least

762
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:08,079
I am. But that's that's a thing you can't say

763
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:11,760
about brandon Ingram or even or even Levine, and probably

764
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,400
not Jimmy Butler. Like that's that's what makes him so interesting,

765
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:20,519
is like a guy with his upside minimal as the

766
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:24,280
odds are he hits it, however minimal you think that is, Like.

767
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,119
Speaker 2: That's that's a I like, what's he worth? I have

768
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:28,719
no idea?

769
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,639
Speaker 3: So I think five is fair because the other guys

770
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:33,199
we've already talked about are like, we have a rough

771
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,039
idea of what they could get with him. It's just

772
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,360
I don't know, he's just like he yes or no.

773
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,480
Is he gonna get traded at before this deadline?

774
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: I don't think he will by the way I'm looking

775
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,559
at the guarantee things now, So twenty percent of next

776
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,440
So this is all. It's season by season, twenty percent

777
00:34:50,519 --> 00:34:53,480
of his deal next year, which is about thirty nine

778
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,400
and a half million dollars. It becomes guaranteed in twenty

779
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,400
percent if he passes all six way ins this season.

780
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,079
Forty percent becomes guaranteed if he plays in forty one games,

781
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,320
sixty percent if he's in fifty one, eighty percent if

782
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,760
he plays in sixty one. That ship looks like it sailed,

783
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,719
and you were right. July fifteenth is like the that's

784
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,599
the guarantee date for it. Uh So I guess the

785
00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:17,280
way in must extend into the summer then at that point,

786
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,039
if that's the guaranteed day, I mean, if you're not.

787
00:35:19,079 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: Out there running, I don't think he's hitting. He's making

788
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,599
that way in, But like the forty one games is

789
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:26,320
probably out too right realistically.

790
00:35:26,639 --> 00:35:29,199
Speaker 1: Because it's him. Yeah, there's still the sixty one is

791
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,920
just no, that's because he already hasn't missed twenty games yet,

792
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,280
but it's he's going to miss twenty games. Like you,

793
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,079
you would have penciled him in for view of them

794
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:38,400
that like, right, if he was healthy at the minute. Well,

795
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,559
here's the thing with him, and I don't. I could

796
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,679
give you teams if you wanted to get into what

797
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,719
teams or would actually pay this. I actually might be

798
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,559
the most confident of anyone that's in front of him

799
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,639
that he gets the equivalent of more than one first

800
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,960
round pick, other than Jimmy Butler with Zach Lavine and

801
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,320
Brandon Ingram, I'm not even sure you're getting a first

802
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,679
round I would this is I'm like all in on

803
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,000
Zack Lavine. I've I've traditionally been higher on him. I'm

804
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:05,760
kind of a sucker for the guys that can catch

805
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,960
and shoot and create and aren't like the Jordan Clarkston types. Right,

806
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,239
But like I don't think most teams, like we were

807
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:14,960
just taught we said it before, some would you have

808
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,519
to give up an asset to get off of Zack

809
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:19,119
Lavine or whatever. I really do think that whether it's

810
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:21,880
you know, if it's a Charlotte, if it's just like

811
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,800
these teams, then to get a hold of this guy,

812
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,480
so well, we'll give up a first round pick and

813
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:28,320
then something else for him. I can guarantee you I

814
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,880
think there would be like a half a dozen teams

815
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,639
at least that would be prepared to roll the dice

816
00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:32,920
on that.

817
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 3: And and if you do trade for him, this might

818
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,719
be what tell what you think about that, Like there's

819
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,679
is a chance that I feel like he's the perfect

820
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,079
guy for like the nothing to lose franchise, Like yes,

821
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:47,519
we'll give up a first Like why isn't Utah just

822
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:50,480
like all over him, because like, yeah, we can spare

823
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,719
a pick or two even, Like I guess you gotta

824
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,400
match the money whatever, But like.

825
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:56,559
Speaker 1: They could do that. John Collins is sitting at home

826
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:57,840
and it's.

827
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, it goes bad.

828
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 3: I do think you can turn around and trade him

829
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,480
to somebody that really values wiping the money off, you know,

830
00:37:04,559 --> 00:37:07,159
for something, so like your outlay what you gave up,

831
00:37:07,199 --> 00:37:08,880
I think you can put sort of a pretty good

832
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,519
cap on or you could just dump him yourself whatever,

833
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:14,119
Like he he should be on the top of.

834
00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:17,599
Speaker 2: Every like middling to bad team that you know, like

835
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,280
the risk is like pretty low, right, Like you could

836
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,599
there's so many outs with him.

837
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: If you were Brooklyn, would you give up one of

838
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,880
your extra first round picks if they were willing, like

839
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,400
the Ben Simmons plus if newar But I guess anyone

840
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:32,880
just wanted to get well, you're getting picked back in

841
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,360
that equation. But to Cam Thomas and Ben Simmons for

842
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,400
Zion Williams and like a first round pick for Zion Brooklyn,

843
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:41,480
they could probably protect some of those other picks that

844
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:43,480
they have. I might he's not gonna hurt your tank.

845
00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:46,119
He's not playing this season, Well.

846
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could definitely you could.

847
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,079
Speaker 3: You could manage his minutes, you could send him out,

848
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:50,800
you could do all this stuff to like make sure

849
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,079
he's not going to screw your tank up.

850
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,199
Speaker 2: If there's like a five.

851
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 3: Percent chance that he can be an All NBA player, again,

852
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,199
that's probably I don't know what the percentage is, but

853
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,559
I think if you're one of the teams and you

854
00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:02,360
think there's a five percent chance, you should do it

855
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,280
because there's so many like pathways out of this being

856
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,280
a disaster for you, like wave him, trade him again, whatever,

857
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,719
like just I think every bad team should be in

858
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,360
on him. But I think all the arguments I'm making

859
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,360
are just arguments for New Orleans to hold on to

860
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,239
him and hope things get better and he can trade

861
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,719
him for a lot more if you want to.

862
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: I've seen this just in the ether so very quickly.

863
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:22,960
If you can get to the money, which you can.

864
00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:25,400
It'd be complicated framework, but you get to the money

865
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,000
without including Andrew Wiggins. Would you want him on the Warriors?

866
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:31,119
What are you willing to give up Kaminga to pick

867
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:32,239
for Zion Williamson or No?

868
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: I think I probably would.

869
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: I just I mean, we'll talk about Kaminga at some point,

870
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,760
but like I mean, I think you have to think

871
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,199
about what you're gonna pay Kaminga. I think just the

872
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,119
pure upside plays as long odds as it might be,

873
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,000
I think you probably should just do that.

874
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: The names are about to get substantially less spicier. Do

875
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,599
you want to take us to our number six guy?

876
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 3: This is mister Colin Sexton of the Utah Jazz, like

877
00:38:56,039 --> 00:39:00,280
the Forgotten, Like, I don't know. Evaluating sex has been

878
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,440
really hard just because he's been on a bad team,

879
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:06,360
But the efficiency numbers historically have been really good for him,

880
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,440
especially even coming off that you know, really good Cavs

881
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,880
season missed the full following year and we're all trying

882
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:12,480
to figure out.

883
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,199
Speaker 2: What he was gonna get paid.

884
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,639
Speaker 3: He's he fits a lot of places as long as

885
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:23,840
you don't need him to be I would say a starter, right.

886
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,800
I think he's probably your six man, your your volume scoring,

887
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:32,079
you know, offense first off slash offense only lead guard

888
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,559
against backups. I don't feel comfortable with him being anything

889
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:37,119
more than that, but that's where we are on the

890
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:38,119
big board at this point.

891
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: He's got one year nineteen million left on his contract too,

892
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,840
and just as someone he can hit, catch and shoot threes,

893
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,079
he can get going downhill. I don't have a problem

894
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:48,519
with him as a starter, but he almost has to be.

895
00:39:49,039 --> 00:39:51,480
He can't be or off guard because he's he's going

896
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:53,440
to be too small. So then you need like this

897
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,000
bigger lineup that just already has other playmakers. So like

898
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,480
the Magic would probably be a perfect example of a

899
00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:02,159
team that could start Collin Sexton and just kill people,

900
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,800
especially when they're fully healthy. I mean that would be like,

901
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,000
that's one of the better destinations for him. But I

902
00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:09,199
like the scalability of what he does on offense, and

903
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,440
if you if he's fine coming off the bench, you're

904
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,239
gonna bring him off the bench. I think that gets

905
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,000
even better. I'm more concerned about even if he's coming

906
00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:18,000
off the bench. I don't think he can be the

907
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,480
driver of offense for other people.

908
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,039
Speaker 3: No, he's He's the description I feel like you hear

909
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:27,239
about him a lot is like he can dribble, so

910
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,960
he'll like he can get it over half court and

911
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,679
bring it up. But he's not gonna be the guy

912
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,679
that like net perfectly navigates the pick and roll or

913
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,360
like draws two and gets you know, really gets the

914
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,199
gears turning. He's just like a serviceable dribbler that in

915
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,639
a half court set is not someone that's creating like

916
00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:45,039
buckets of offense for people.

917
00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:48,679
Speaker 1: Do you have any other teams that you like for him?

918
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 3: Well, as you're describing teams that can play weird lineups,

919
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,800
I guess like or like can put size and defense

920
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,679
at other positions to the sort of and ball handling.

921
00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:02,280
I Dallas was honestly my first thought. But it's like

922
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,079
you wouldn't play him with Irving. I don't think he

923
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,519
would be a backup. I still I'm not I'm not

924
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:09,480
where you are where I feel great about him as

925
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:13,920
a starter, even in like ideal circumstances, Orlando being maybe

926
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:14,920
the exception to that.

927
00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, would you would?

928
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 3: Would we have value in Houston just as like someone

929
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,079
to generate points and you can surround him with defenders

930
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:26,920
who can also handle and like Shingoon makes sense because

931
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,719
he can be a bit of more of an initiator.

932
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,679
Speaker 1: Yes, but the problem with Houston is just like so

933
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,639
they don't need to give up real players to get him.

934
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:36,639
You could give like a pick and you can get

935
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:40,079
there with Philler salary. But Reed Shepherd doesn't play a

936
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:41,960
ton for this team. But then we're gonna find minutes

937
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,639
for Colin Sexton.

938
00:41:42,639 --> 00:41:44,199
Speaker 3: And then I guess and we refuse to believe it's

939
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:45,599
because Red Shepherd isn't great.

940
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 2: It's other forces are at work.

941
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: That's right now, Colin Sexton is the better player. That's

942
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:54,639
that's clear. Yeah, But even look, leave the rotation as

943
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:56,760
it is. Is it so even if you eat up

944
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,960
Read Shepherd's entire minutes and you say, okay, have fun

945
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,599
with and Whitmore's entire minutes, he now carved out like

946
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:04,559
fifteen minutes a game for Colin Sexton.

947
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:06,559
Speaker 2: Is that yeah? Probably?

948
00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 3: Well it's probably what about the seconds and nothing, I guess,

949
00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:12,440
But yeah, well where else can we send.

950
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: Him coming off the bench? There?

951
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that works because he can also just be the

952
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,039
spacing shooter if you want him to be too, which

953
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:23,639
is what they seem to be after all the time.

954
00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:26,119
Speaker 1: Can the Clippers get They're not going to want to

955
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:27,599
give him a first round pick for him, and you

956
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:29,960
really can't get him without giving up They have nothing

957
00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:32,920
like unless if Utah is really high on Terrence Man,

958
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,960
Terrence Man and PJ Tucker sign me up.

959
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,559
Speaker 3: I don't know how you do this, but is he

960
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,119
like could he just be what Minnesota thought the Vincenzo

961
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:42,519
would be?

962
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:43,639
Speaker 2: Does he fake?

963
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:45,679
Speaker 1: How are they getting to the money they're not?

964
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: I don't know how you do this, just trying to

965
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:49,320
think of fits.

966
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so, it's in. That's what we're at that

967
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,280
point in the big board, Whereas it's probably easier with

968
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,599
some wings. I just think that Colin Sexton's value in

969
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:00,119
a vacuum, as like a utility of a player, is

970
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:02,159
more valuable than a lot of names are gonna talk about.

971
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: Now.

972
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,159
Speaker 1: Number seven on our big board. I struggled with this

973
00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:07,400
one because I would put him higher, but I recognize that.

974
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:09,679
I feel the type of way about Anthony Simons at

975
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,800
number seven that other people do not three point percentage

976
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,800
is down. He is still shooting, like I think he's

977
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,639
shooting a good enough clip on wide open threes just

978
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:23,119
to a game winner against Denver as well, and just

979
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,639
he's still super young. He is a year left on

980
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,599
his deal at twenty seven point seven million, that's kind

981
00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:31,079
of that's the perfect amount of money to where it's

982
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,760
neither backbreaking nor is it just throwaway money. And I

983
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,639
think if you put him on a team where you

984
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,239
don't need him to not even that you don't need

985
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,599
to have the ball in his hands as much, but

986
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:43,760
like just better spacing more threats around him so that

987
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:46,639
defenses aren't his keyed in on him, I think he

988
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,039
ends up shining. We've mentioned Orlando for him a ton

989
00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:52,280
of times. I would still mention Orlando. Look, throw him

990
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,440
in Detroit. We're just gonna keep mentioning Orlando and Detroit.

991
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,639
But there are other teams that I think, Look, I

992
00:43:56,639 --> 00:43:58,360
don't know that they'd want to give up the money,

993
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,159
but you look at a team that's like built to

994
00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:03,480
insulate him, because look at Okac, I'm not advocating for this,

995
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:05,719
but they could get to this money. It's gonna cost

996
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,480
you Isaiah Joe or Aaron Wiggins. You could also give

997
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:11,559
up both. I don't know that I want to, but like,

998
00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:13,920
this is someone that you can play heavier minutes because

999
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,840
he has the marquee skill, whereas with OKAC it feels

1000
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,880
like we don't trust Aaron Wiggins or Isaiah Joe to

1001
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,239
play these heavier minutes. And yes, he's a defensive liability

1002
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,280
for sure, OKAYC doesn't much have to concern themselves with that.

1003
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,719
They could be more worried about offensive consistency. That's not

1004
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,480
if I'm him, I'm probably not doing that deal. I

1005
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:33,239
want to make that clear. But you talk about someone

1006
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,360
who I think is super scalable, and just looking at

1007
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,199
his age and all the timelines he fits into to

1008
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,159
me Andnfony Simon's is among the like if I had

1009
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:43,559
my drouthers, if I was just catering to all my

1010
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:47,280
biases here, I probably would have had him above brandon Ingram.

1011
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie, Oh wow, I would have had

1012
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,880
him above Sexton just because he's I just think he's

1013
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,280
got a high I mean, we've seen him hit a

1014
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,599
higher ceiling as an offensive player before. He just happens

1015
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:00,920
to not be at it right now. He's unfortunately in

1016
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,000
a case where Portland I think maybe there was no

1017
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:05,480
deal there, but last year he would have been would

1018
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:07,559
have gotten he would have been higher, Like he's just

1019
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:09,880
not shooting the ball or scoring a volume.

1020
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: This year they're in a tricky spot too. They also

1021
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,280
even when he's not making threes, they still need.

1022
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:17,079
Speaker 3: Him because we won him the game again last night

1023
00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:20,079
as we're recording this, So I mean by we should

1024
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:22,880
talk what the hell happened on that last possession defensively

1025
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:23,599
for Denver.

1026
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: We do not need to talk about that. Well, you

1027
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,199
we rusted westbrook on in an island. You get what

1028
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:27,519
you got.

1029
00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:30,599
Speaker 3: Also, Jokis pointing at Murray to come double to get

1030
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:32,679
the ball out of his hands, and Murray not understanding

1031
00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:34,599
what he meant, and then Jokic not even trying to

1032
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:35,280
contest with the room.

1033
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,679
Speaker 2: So we did talk about it. I I think like that.

1034
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:41,119
So he's expiring next year.

1035
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 3: So you you have the if you trade for Simon's

1036
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,400
here's okay, here's why I think maybe he belongs above Sexton.

1037
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:51,800
You have the opportunity to hope he like rebounds and

1038
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,840
and is his last year version for the balance of

1039
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,199
this season, and then you also have next year if

1040
00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:59,000
you're just looking to flip him if he doesn't prove

1041
00:45:59,079 --> 00:46:00,960
himself worthy, you know what I mean, Like the extra

1042
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000
year of control matters. Even those salaries higher than Sexton's,

1043
00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:06,119
He's not like that much.

1044
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: How old is Colin Sexton is like.

1045
00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:12,119
Speaker 1: Twenty six, so he's here every Simon's actually might be older.

1046
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,639
Speaker 3: No, he's Simons is twenty five, so it's it's close.

1047
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,159
I still think that you.

1048
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: Have nineteen next year and Simon's is at twenty seven

1049
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,119
point seven next year. Yeah, for Simon's over that, I

1050
00:46:27,159 --> 00:46:30,239
think that's I think I would into it. I only

1051
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,760
put him in seven because I thought you wouldn't be

1052
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:32,159
into it.

1053
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they're they're fairly comparable really, and it's

1054
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,840
just the extra year of control at a number that's

1055
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,960
like not so much.

1056
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: Higher than Sexton's annual rate that I'm like, maybe you

1057
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:42,719
could flip him.

1058
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,119
Speaker 1: I don't know, threes too, Simon's is going to hit

1059
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:48,079
more of those than Colin Sexton.

1060
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah you can.

1061
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,079
Speaker 3: Well that's the other really, I mean, Simons I think

1062
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,280
can do more of the stuff we just said Sexton can't,

1063
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:56,960
which is like, yeah, you could get away with him

1064
00:46:57,039 --> 00:46:59,440
running pick and rolls and like initiating the offense a

1065
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,039
little more probably, But he really is just a two

1066
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:06,320
that's kind of like like undersized, I guess, and neither

1067
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,960
of them defends, so like, I don't know, I think

1068
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:10,079
it's close enough to where.

1069
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: We don't need to qubble too much over it.

1070
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: Who's number eight, mister Hughes.

1071
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,119
Speaker 2: Number eight? This is a fun this is an interesting one.

1072
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:18,079
Speaker 3: This is bogdan Bogdanovic, who may or may not be available,

1073
00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:21,360
but has been in trade discussions for two plus years,

1074
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:22,239
you know, on and off.

1075
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: He is.

1076
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 3: I mean, he's a I think he's a better player

1077
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,360
than Simon's and Sexton, Like I feel pretty comfortable saying that.

1078
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 2: But he's older.

1079
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,159
Speaker 3: He's thirty two, I want to say, also cheaper, So

1080
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,960
I guess we're kind of just see song back and

1081
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,800
forth there. Yeah, thirty two making seventeen this year goes

1082
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,719
through twenty twenty seven, so you have another two and

1083
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,639
thirty two, two and thirty two total left. I mean

1084
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,239
he's someone that I don't I don't think you start

1085
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,840
in most places, but he's just like one of the

1086
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,400
best reserve guards in the league that you can close

1087
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,400
with on the right nights. I think, so I think

1088
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,920
he should have like massive appeal. The Hawks are actually

1089
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,639
like pretty good though, and I don't I don't know

1090
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,960
if and he's on a value contract. I don't know

1091
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,559
what they're looking to get by trading him potentially.

1092
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: And he's not. I mean, he's been injured a ton

1093
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,039
this season. He's a bigger injury risk. I know he

1094
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:16,800
played in seventy nine games last year, but I would

1095
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,159
say overall, he's a bigger injury risk than Sexton or Simons.

1096
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:22,880
And he's not having the most efficient season. He's still

1097
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,199
shooting fifty three and a half percent from two, but

1098
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,880
he's below thirty five percent from three, and that's ticked

1099
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,840
up like with over his past like six or seven performances,

1100
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:33,320
like we've seen a little bit more of like the

1101
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,400
threes falling. He's arguably more valuable to Atlanta than ever

1102
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,639
because now Buffkin's out for the year and it's just like, well,

1103
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:42,639
what are your reserve playmakers. You have Dyson Daniels and

1104
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,000
you have Bogdanovic and then that's it. Yep, so I

1105
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:48,800
wonder what type of Waffert would take to even get

1106
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,760
him out of Atlanta. But he's a name that's bandied

1107
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,599
about the trade room, trade rumor mill I would say

1108
00:48:53,639 --> 00:48:55,679
even more than DeAndre Hunter at this point, whose name

1109
00:48:55,679 --> 00:48:59,679
we did not include in this exercise. So I don't like.

1110
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:01,639
I think you could make the case that in a

1111
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,360
vacuum he's a better player than sex Dinner Sigmons and

1112
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,800
I would agree with you, but between the injury risk

1113
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,280
and aage, that's where And also I think you could

1114
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,559
probably get those other guys while giving up one first

1115
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:14,840
round pick. I'm wondering right now if Atlanta would accept

1116
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,119
anything less than like a first round pick and something else.

1117
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Can I just say I really

1118
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,920
want him in Denver? I don't think. I don't think

1119
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,000
it's doable with any.

1120
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: Level of confidence, But I just feel like he answers

1121
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:29,360
so many other questions would you do?

1122
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,119
Speaker 1: I'm just again, we're not factoring in there's aprons and

1123
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:35,960
figure out. But if Larry Nance Junior and it's Bogdanovic

1124
00:49:36,519 --> 00:49:39,760
for Michael Porter Junior, I don't know why is in

1125
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,639
Atlanta doing that? And if they're not, does including any

1126
00:49:42,639 --> 00:49:45,880
first round swaps, like a twenty thirty swap or a

1127
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,360
twenty thirty one, you can't give up would we agree

1128
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,679
you can't give up your your twenty thirty one? Pick

1129
00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:53,280
one would have to be conditional based off prior obligations.

1130
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,320
But would you even consider giving up your twenty thirty?

1131
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,320
I wouldn't attaching it to MPJ for that. I couldn't

1132
00:49:59,320 --> 00:49:59,679
get there.

1133
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:01,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so.

1134
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,039
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like Atlanta might need to be

1135
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:05,280
attaching a pick there, and what's Denver doing a deal

1136
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,719
that's getting it? I mean, I guess they need draft equity.

1137
00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:10,840
I think I probably do that if I'm Atlanta.

1138
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 2: I don't know what.

1139
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:14,079
Speaker 3: I don't know about the pick stuff, but yeah, I

1140
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:18,400
just like Bogdanovic, assuming health and assuming you don't care

1141
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,039
about like the back end here, He's just like he

1142
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:24,679
would just help. He would help anybody. And I think

1143
00:50:24,679 --> 00:50:27,960
if you're a team that has second unit issues and

1144
00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:30,280
or that you could throw Orlando in there too. Is

1145
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,119
just need someone to make plays and be a reliable

1146
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:36,519
shooter like he just he's a He's a universal fit.

1147
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:38,679
But the age and the injury stuff, I think obviously

1148
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,800
is I don't think you have him too low, is

1149
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:41,360
what I'm saying.

1150
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,639
Speaker 1: I do wonder. So let's just say Denver's twenty thirty

1151
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:47,119
one pick is in play, and I think the fact

1152
00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:49,800
that it's so loosely protected in all those other years

1153
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,199
that you can look at it as okay, we're getting

1154
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,320
that pick if you if you can get to Bogdanovitch's

1155
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,880
money without giving up Michael Porter Junior, is there like,

1156
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:02,079
is there any appeal there for Atlanta? Where its okay,

1157
00:51:02,119 --> 00:51:04,400
we're taking back flotsam and it's a bunch of flotsam,

1158
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,159
so you're probably roping in some other teams to take

1159
00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:10,800
back these smaller salaries. But between Sarach and Zeke Nause,

1160
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,920
you get to thirteen point six and Bogie's at what

1161
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,880
he's at seventeen point three. I mean, that's a pretty

1162
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,559
big gap to bridge. It's like another four million, Like

1163
00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:25,320
would you give up? So let's look at it from

1164
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,119
both sides. If you're Atlanta and maybe that's the killer.

1165
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,400
If you could just get Denver's twenty thirty one first

1166
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,079
round pick, would you do it? I mean you also

1167
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:35,079
are probably getting one of their youngsters. So let's say

1168
00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:38,559
Julian Strather and that twenty thirty one first round pick?

1169
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,079
Are you doing that in a vacuum for knowing that

1170
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:46,599
you're taking back? Oh, the Zeke Nause contract and Sarge

1171
00:51:46,639 --> 00:51:49,119
has another year left on his deal? Is that enough

1172
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:49,400
or no?

1173
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: Man? I think I don't know. It's it's not a

1174
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:53,480
fast no.

1175
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 3: I think if Kobe Buffkin had one showed much or

1176
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,679
two stayed healthy this year, it might be a lot

1177
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,559
easier for Atlanta to say, yeah, whatever, Like how how

1178
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,480
big of a factor is Butoganovich in our future? Although

1179
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:06,639
like twenty thirty one, again, it's so far off, Like

1180
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:08,800
I don't know how each team would value a twenty

1181
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:09,920
thirty one incoming.

1182
00:52:11,519 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: Landry Field feels like he's got some cachet out there, maybebstability.

1183
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: I think I might. I don't know what do you

1184
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:19,559
are you saying? No?

1185
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: If you're Atlanta, No, I'm thinking about it. But I

1186
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,880
tend to over romanticize, like those distant first round picks.

1187
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,719
It's just that you this is basically unless you're giving

1188
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,239
up someone other than Julian Strother, which I don't think

1189
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,320
you're going to give up you know, Christian Brown in this,

1190
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,239
and I doubt you're gonna want to give up on homes.

1191
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,960
Even with the Achilles injury. It would have to be

1192
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,840
a four for one because even the three for one

1193
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:42,760
structure we lay.

1194
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,519
Speaker 2: Out so it's out nobody's doing four for ones anymore.

1195
00:52:45,199 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: And you can you can game it, so it's like, okay,

1196
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,519
if hunter Tyson is in there too, you could take back.

1197
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:51,559
It could be four for two. You need a third team.

1198
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:54,199
I don't think it's I don't think it's outside the

1199
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,199
realm of possibility. I'd like you could do it, is

1200
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,519
my point. Why are you willing to trade routs? You

1201
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:02,679
could just make Russ instead of Strawther and that one

1202
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,480
and then the money gets you there and you're fine.

1203
00:53:04,639 --> 00:53:06,199
I don't know if Lanta would do that, then.

1204
00:53:06,039 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: I think Rus is untouchable in Denver, but.

1205
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 1: Like I would do it if I'm Denver, though, like

1206
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,159
you would give up the four, like you'd give up

1207
00:53:14,159 --> 00:53:16,400
Strawther and you're twenty thirty one to get off. By

1208
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,400
the way, the Starge and Nause money yet.

1209
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,599
Speaker 3: Well yeah, that's that's a legit consideration at this point

1210
00:53:22,639 --> 00:53:23,000
for them.

1211
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:26,039
Speaker 1: Just interesting answers. He would be great in Never though

1212
00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:28,400
you are correct. Number nine, it's I think we're at

1213
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,159
his my turn. I'm dorn Finney Smith, just kind of

1214
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:34,239
the no notes player who's been in trading rumors since

1215
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,199
he was acquired by Brooklyn. He has one year left

1216
00:53:37,199 --> 00:53:40,000
on his deal. It's a player option that's fifteen point

1217
00:53:40,079 --> 00:53:43,039
four million. He's gonna be fascinating to see. My guess

1218
00:53:43,079 --> 00:53:45,039
would be that he just declines it. And even if

1219
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:47,239
he doesn't, if he's only getting mid level money, which

1220
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,800
is one close to that at this point, it's more years.

1221
00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:52,519
He is buying large as your shot the hell out

1222
00:53:52,519 --> 00:53:55,559
of the ball, and he's still serviceable defensively. You talk

1223
00:53:55,559 --> 00:53:59,039
about someone who fits everywhere. His all of his premium

1224
00:53:59,039 --> 00:54:02,039
skills aren't high enough to say he definitely needs to start.

1225
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,880
He's going to give you more value than a sext

1226
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,360
in or Assignments or Abougdanovic. But like, he just fits everywhere,

1227
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,360
and any team that needs a wing should just be

1228
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,400
trying to get him to the point where I've sort

1229
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,599
of wondered. My assumption was they're not going to get

1230
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:17,000
a first round pick without taking back bad money. But

1231
00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:18,719
I'm just sort of wondering if you had an expiring

1232
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,199
contract that you're not using and you're a contender and

1233
00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:22,639
you were willing to give up a first round like

1234
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:24,880
it's a late first round pick. I think there might

1235
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,880
be teams that do that. But what are your thoughts there.

1236
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 3: I think of first as if I had to say

1237
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,800
yes or no, will they get a first form I

1238
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,280
would say no, just because of the sum of the

1239
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,360
factors you mentioned, Like I do think he's going to

1240
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,920
opt out, and I do think there will be a

1241
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,199
pretty robust like bidding war at the mid level for him,

1242
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:45,239
and so like I guess maybe you have the advantage

1243
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,719
of if things went well after you traded for him,

1244
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,960
you might, you know, all things being equal, be able

1245
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,880
to keep him at the mid level or something like that.

1246
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,960
He is just like a stop gap, though, like a

1247
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,840
really good one. I just don't know if you get

1248
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,719
first if you're from the nets perspective, if you can

1249
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,440
expect or we'll get like an actual first round pick

1250
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,199
for someone that is going to a team that he's

1251
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,199
going to be the their sixth or seventh best or

1252
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,760
most important player, you know, Like I, it's hard because

1253
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,960
like we agree, oh my god, he fits, he's valuable,

1254
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:22,039
Like he's just the cap on like what he's going

1255
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:24,639
to give your team, I think is fairly low, even

1256
00:55:24,679 --> 00:55:28,280
though it's like also pretty reliable and like you understand

1257
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,360
what you're getting with him, and for the right team,

1258
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:31,360
that's really valuable.

1259
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 2: So maybe if it's like they can't do this.

1260
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 3: But I'm just using the example of like oh, Boston

1261
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,159
needs another wing, yeah, and they have a first to

1262
00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:41,119
give up, Like maybe that kind of first that's going

1263
00:55:41,159 --> 00:55:43,199
to be number thirty from a team that knows it's

1264
00:55:43,199 --> 00:55:44,920
going to be number thirty. That's the kind of first

1265
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,599
you get. But again not saying that that is plausible

1266
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:50,519
or going to happen, but just that would be the

1267
00:55:50,599 --> 00:55:52,960
only way I'd see Brooklyn getting a first for him.

1268
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,639
Speaker 1: And I mean they could do this, I don't necessarily

1269
00:55:55,679 --> 00:55:57,880
looking at their roster, I don't know. This isn't what

1270
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,159
I would say they need, but like Dallas could give

1271
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,880
up this year's first round pick plus salary for Dorian

1272
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,519
Phinney Smith. You do that, right, Dwight Powell salary X

1273
00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:08,199
for Dorian Phinney Smith, Right?

1274
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 2: I think so?

1275
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,119
Speaker 3: I think so again, that's another first that's gonna be

1276
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,719
twenty six, twenty seven, you know something like that.

1277
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,159
Speaker 2: That So I shouldn't say it's a hard.

1278
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 3: No, but I think you're not getting a first from

1279
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:21,000
a team that realistically that they expect that pick to

1280
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,800
be in the lottery or like in the you know,

1281
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,480
top fifteen or twenty or anything.

1282
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:28,119
Speaker 1: Is he to this point the most confident play Like

1283
00:56:28,159 --> 00:56:29,840
the player that you're most confident is going to get

1284
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,000
traded from this list.

1285
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 2: It's a good question, I think.

1286
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:39,079
Speaker 1: Guess if we would think I think probably, yeah, Jimmy Butler, Zachlavine,

1287
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:42,440
Cam Johnson, brand ingram Zion Williams and Collin Sexton, Anthony

1288
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,280
Simons and Bo Doug Mandanovich. Just how many of those

1289
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,480
players are there anyone that stand out? And you say

1290
00:56:47,559 --> 00:56:50,360
I think they're going to get traded this season?

1291
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you would say Butler because of all

1292
00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:56,760
the smoke, But we've just discussed how difficult it will

1293
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,119
be to move him anywhere, So Phinney Smith And from

1294
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:02,800
the next perspective, why would you have any confidence that

1295
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,199
you'll be able to bring him back right?

1296
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 2: Or why you probably don't even want him back.

1297
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: And you have a space you couldn't. I'm sure you

1298
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,000
could pay him enough to come back, but.

1299
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:13,199
Speaker 3: Why Yeah, I think I think that's a great point.

1300
00:57:13,199 --> 00:57:15,000
I think Phinney Smith might be our number one if

1301
00:57:15,039 --> 00:57:17,320
we're ranking like trade likelihood at this point.

1302
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: I honestly of the list we have so far, and

1303
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,679
we should probably start delivering verdicts on these, I'm gonna

1304
00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:25,280
predict that Butler and Levine get traded, and I would

1305
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:26,679
say everybody else does not.

1306
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 3: So far, Yeah, I think so, although, like I recently

1307
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,119
sold on the idea of Butler being traded, just because

1308
00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:40,159
when you read through like what has to happen and

1309
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:42,920
you start ruling teams out like Phoenix is just like

1310
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,079
if Bradley Beal says no, it's no, like you just

1311
00:57:45,159 --> 00:57:47,920
that's it, right, So so like I do think the

1312
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,000
Warriors are the one that makes the most sense, that

1313
00:57:50,039 --> 00:57:52,920
could do it most easily. And that's a relative term.

1314
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,679
But the the sheer, the dearth of like actual possible

1315
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,360
landing spots for Butler makes it so hard art to

1316
00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:04,280
be confident. Of the biggest names. I think it's him

1317
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:06,800
and I'd say Levine, yes, because the Bulls just have

1318
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,159
to do it, and I think a lot.

1319
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: Of they don't burn that franchise. I actually I said

1320
00:58:11,039 --> 00:58:16,840
this like, weren't the point because like the Bulls won

1321
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,760
another game, do you think it's possible that they're like

1322
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:24,760
making trades to actively get better this season, isn't it.

1323
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,320
That's a remote You would say no, and I would

1324
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,000
agree with you, but like now it's sort of, oh,

1325
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,519
that's in play here.

1326
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 3: The real problem, too, is like circumstances being what they are,

1327
00:58:37,719 --> 00:58:41,000
difficulty of trading for, like peak value being what it is.

1328
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 2: If you're the.

1329
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,039
Speaker 3: Bulls, you could, like with a straight face, say to

1330
00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:47,440
the fan base, we just, you know, we didn't think

1331
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,960
it was the right time. Uh, you know, we the

1332
00:58:50,199 --> 00:58:52,559
market just wasn't there. We're not in control of that.

1333
00:58:52,639 --> 00:58:56,239
Like you could really like pass the buck again and

1334
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,960
not be and almost get I don't think they would

1335
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,000
get away with it. I think would be really upset,

1336
00:59:01,039 --> 00:59:03,760
but they've been upset before and that doesn't hasn't affected

1337
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,519
the franchise's behavior. So I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit,

1338
00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:09,039
like they gotta trade him. Right.

1339
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: They have the eleventh worst record in the league, so

1340
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,320
technically their pick is slated to go to San Antonio now,

1341
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,159
and you could say, might as well just get it

1342
00:59:16,159 --> 00:59:19,000
over with and because it's protected top eight the next

1343
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,639
two years, you know, you could also do just fucking

1344
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,639
keep that pick all three years because you're rebuilding properly.

1345
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:28,079
But right, that's a digression. I think I would say,

1346
00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:30,679
so far, at least two of the nine players we've mentioned,

1347
00:59:30,719 --> 00:59:33,360
we'll get traded. I'll set the number eight. I'd say two.

1348
00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:35,360
I want I'm gonna say three and be optimistic and

1349
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:37,079
say Jimmy Butler gets moved as well. So I think

1350
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:38,800
three of the guys we mentioned will get moved.

1351
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 3: That's about as high as i'd go at this point.

1352
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,079
Number ten, Number ten, Number ten.

1353
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:44,079
Speaker 2: Robert Williams the third.

1354
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:49,239
Speaker 3: We have discussed him plenty, certainly preseason when teams needed centers.

1355
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:50,199
Speaker 2: Several still do.

1356
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,119
Speaker 3: I just it's just like he's got one year left

1357
00:59:54,239 --> 00:59:57,480
thirteen point three million. That's not breaking the bank for anybody.

1358
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,320
Oh man, is that does that fit into the mid

1359
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:01,280
level trade exception?

1360
01:00:01,519 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: I forget.

1361
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,119
Speaker 1: It's like, well, next year it might.

1362
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 3: I'll have to double check that it might well, But

1363
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:09,119
I was thinking for this year it's close by. You're right,

1364
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:11,079
it does, Okay, it doesn't, Man that if it did,

1365
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:12,880
we would have a very different discussion. I think the

1366
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,199
market would be a lot broader. He it's just the health, right,

1367
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,119
like and you. You know, I don't think you could

1368
01:00:19,679 --> 01:00:23,000
trade for him expecting him to be a starting center

1369
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,719
that gives you more than like the obligatory starts and

1370
01:00:27,199 --> 01:00:30,519
gives you fifteen minutes a game. I don't think you

1371
01:00:30,599 --> 01:00:33,039
can expect more than that. But he does if he's

1372
01:00:33,079 --> 01:00:35,840
healthy and can do for action of what he did

1373
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,199
when he was at his best, Like he could make

1374
01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,159
a difference for a lot of teams defensively.

1375
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, and he's still more He's a

1376
01:00:43,159 --> 01:00:45,280
lot more dynamic on offense than a lot of these

1377
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,719
other Bays who can play similar roles. I would say

1378
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,559
the reason why I have him so high is you

1379
01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:51,159
know that there's an injury risk. You know he's going

1380
01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:53,559
to play a few minutes. But at the beginning of

1381
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:55,480
the season I would have assumed that you're probably not

1382
01:00:55,519 --> 01:00:57,559
taking back great money and you'll get some seconds for

1383
01:00:57,679 --> 01:00:59,760
him now much the point whereas if you're not taking

1384
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,519
back great money, like if you're sending if someone sending

1385
01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:05,159
an expiring money, maybe you're willing to accept a couple seconds.

1386
01:01:05,159 --> 01:01:07,599
Although at this point between him and Klingon, like if

1387
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:09,480
you view that as your center rotation of the future,

1388
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,920
why not I do think you could get not a

1389
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,039
great first round pick for him, maybe depending on the

1390
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:16,280
contract you're taking back. I think you could get a

1391
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,760
first round pick for Robert Williams. Again, you're probably not

1392
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,760
taking back the best money in that scenario, but that's

1393
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,079
if you know. I understand why Portland doesn't want to

1394
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:28,559
move him, but if you're stuck with DeAndre Eaton through

1395
01:01:28,599 --> 01:01:31,199
the end of his deal, then that's something that should

1396
01:01:31,199 --> 01:01:33,840
be up for consideration, especially again because of the injury risk.

1397
01:01:34,239 --> 01:01:36,079
Speaker 3: I really don't think they're getting a first for him.

1398
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:39,639
I think if you couldn't get a first for Shrewder like,

1399
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,159
it's just as I know. I know that's like a

1400
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:44,440
funny thing to make fun of teams about like always

1401
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,400
set the market. I just like Williams in terms of

1402
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,880
like the volume of contribution you can expect from him,

1403
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,119
it's pretty low. Maybe on the right team it has

1404
01:01:54,159 --> 01:01:56,840
such a high impact that it matters, But I don't know.

1405
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,239
I think the first is tough, just even like a

1406
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,480
bad one because I don't know if the guys on

1407
01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:06,159
this list other than Zion, I guess, like, who's who's

1408
01:02:06,239 --> 01:02:08,880
more likely to just give you zero after you trade

1409
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,519
for him. I think you have to factor in the

1410
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:11,960
downside with Williams.

1411
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: Do you think he gets moved?

1412
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:20,559
Speaker 3: I I think so, because I don't know that Portland

1413
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:23,920
would view him as a guy that they want back,

1414
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:27,639
and like, I think, yeah, I think it's kind of

1415
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:29,800
the something or nothing, which would you prefer if you're

1416
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,639
Portland for him. So I think he gets moved. And

1417
01:02:33,679 --> 01:02:37,639
I think there's probably enough teams, assuming it's gonna cost

1418
01:02:37,639 --> 01:02:41,159
a second and whatever. Like I think I think he

1419
01:02:41,239 --> 01:02:44,800
probably I would say yes, but it's like you could

1420
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,920
also imagine teams just saying that's just not a reliable

1421
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:51,119
enough acquisition for us to give up anything.

1422
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:54,639
Speaker 1: Number What are we on? Number eleven? Kyle Kuzma is

1423
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,079
to get into Jeremy Grant of at all live and

1424
01:02:57,159 --> 01:02:59,519
we've seen Jeremy Grant yet. He's certainly more valuable on

1425
01:02:59,519 --> 01:03:02,239
the court than Robert Williams. You would think Kyle Kuzma

1426
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,480
injured at the moment. Hasn't I think still injured, hasn't

1427
01:03:05,559 --> 01:03:09,000
had the most efficient season. There's definitely been maybe most

1428
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:11,320
nights where he's just been chucking. I still think he's

1429
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,400
someone who can scale down. I think that he's shown

1430
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,559
that he can do good things on defense for long stretches,

1431
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,199
and yes, I recognize that the Wizards not so much

1432
01:03:20,239 --> 01:03:22,119
this year, and I recognize the Wizards or dog shit

1433
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:24,840
on that end of the floor. Anyway, His contract is

1434
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,360
declining is the other thing. So you're getting him for

1435
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,000
two more years at forty point eight million dollars and

1436
01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:32,679
the number just gets progressively less from this season to

1437
01:03:32,679 --> 01:03:35,559
the next to that final year. And I do think

1438
01:03:35,559 --> 01:03:37,840
that he is what I would call a combo forward.

1439
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:39,920
I don't know that maybe defensively he could view him

1440
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,559
as a wing at this point, but not so much offensively.

1441
01:03:43,519 --> 01:03:45,719
What are your thoughts, I think.

1442
01:03:46,639 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 3: Just to take the first one first, Like, positionally, I

1443
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,920
think if you view him as a wing because you

1444
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,760
think he can guard wings, that's that's like the speculative

1445
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,199
point of Kyle Kuzman now because with Washington, his defense

1446
01:03:59,199 --> 01:04:01,119
has been like I don't know how you evaluate almost

1447
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:02,000
anything in Washington.

1448
01:04:02,039 --> 01:04:03,199
Speaker 2: So like, I do think.

1449
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 3: It's fair to assume he could guard if he was

1450
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,400
on a team where it like mattered. And I think

1451
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,559
now what that says about a player overall where it's like, oh,

1452
01:04:13,559 --> 01:04:15,559
he's on a shit team, so he's just mailing it

1453
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,800
in like I don't love that, but I could forgive

1454
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,559
it a little bit. So I think defensively, certainly, i'd

1455
01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:23,039
feel okay with him on forwards maybe wings if it's

1456
01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:24,880
still there. Like, it's also possible.

1457
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: It's just not there anymore.

1458
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,199
Speaker 3: He's twenty nine, Like, that's not an age where you

1459
01:04:28,199 --> 01:04:29,440
would assume, Look, he just came.

1460
01:04:29,519 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: I always forget more. Not that I forget how old

1461
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,280
he is, but he was older coming into the league. Yeah,

1462
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:35,960
so Kusma's going to be thirty.

1463
01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:39,079
Speaker 3: But I don't think I don't think he's like, oh, athletically,

1464
01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:39,960
it's just not there.

1465
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: I think that's just the age. Thirty one season.

1466
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's less likely that's the case.

1467
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: Then he's just like, I'm tuned out until you get

1468
01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:51,599
me off of this team. I feel like, yeah, I

1469
01:04:51,639 --> 01:04:52,360
want me there.

1470
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,719
Speaker 1: He reportedly turned down that trade to Dallas because Kyle Kuzma,

1471
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,119
despite not having star cachet or an actual no trade clause,

1472
01:04:59,119 --> 01:04:59,920
has veto power.

1473
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's an interesting guy.

1474
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 3: I mean, you could make the casey belongs higher if

1475
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,480
you believe, because the contract's fine. If he if he

1476
01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:12,280
is like the best version of himself and that's still

1477
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,599
in there, somewhere. It's just like I would be very

1478
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,599
there's so much uncertainty because of like the last couple

1479
01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:20,679
of years, and like you just have to be really sure,

1480
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,280
like why he's been he's been bad, and I don't

1481
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:24,960
know how you know that.

1482
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: There also is I do view him as substantially more

1483
01:05:27,519 --> 01:05:30,559
scalable than Ingram, but there is the Ingram of it all.

1484
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:32,239
At play of it feels like he would be a

1485
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,000
fit on fewer teams that have the positional need he's

1486
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,039
supposed to fill, because I guess would you feel more

1487
01:05:38,039 --> 01:05:40,719
confident giving up a first round pick for Kyle Kuzma

1488
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:42,840
or Dorian Phinney Smith, which the player you would prefer

1489
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:44,079
to give up a first round pick for.

1490
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 2: Oh Man?

1491
01:05:46,519 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 3: Neither, But I think probably probably Kuzma because maybe he's

1492
01:05:52,039 --> 01:05:56,000
this year's PJ. Washington where it's like he just comes

1493
01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:58,639
in and he runs hot from three and he does guard,

1494
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,159
you know, and oh the defense is still there. I

1495
01:06:01,159 --> 01:06:03,280
think I think that's that's just the first name that

1496
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,320
comes to mind, and you have that extra year that

1497
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,880
declines that if things go really great, maybe you can

1498
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,079
extend him off that Like that's that's another thing to

1499
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:11,679
think about he's at an age where that might be

1500
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:12,800
something you factor in too.

1501
01:06:13,639 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: I and this is I degraded him here because I

1502
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,480
don't have the fit because we'll say that I think

1503
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,360
he would help a lot a good amount of teams.

1504
01:06:22,679 --> 01:06:24,559
But I'm not just like, oh, Atlanta needs to go

1505
01:06:24,599 --> 01:06:26,880
out and get him, or Memphis should really take a

1506
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,079
hard look at him. Those are teams. I think you

1507
01:06:29,079 --> 01:06:31,719
can make an argue for Memphis, perhaps more so than Atlanta,

1508
01:06:32,519 --> 01:06:36,920
but like there's no just obvious Oh okay, yeah, go

1509
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:38,039
do that well here.

1510
01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 3: And the reason for that is like if you're talking

1511
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,800
to his agent ahead of a trade, and as compared

1512
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,280
to Finney Smith, where you're not having the conversation of like, so,

1513
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,159
what do you envision your role being DFS Like it's like, no,

1514
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:52,599
we understand exactly what you're supposed to do with Kuzma,

1515
01:06:52,679 --> 01:06:56,440
It's like, we're gonna have to have a conversation about

1516
01:06:56,519 --> 01:06:58,920
what we expect from you and does that align with

1517
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,480
what you want to do? Like that, that's that's a

1518
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:02,679
different conversation to have.

1519
01:07:03,719 --> 01:07:06,599
Speaker 1: It would if they had any sort of equity to

1520
01:07:06,639 --> 01:07:09,639
give up to grease the wheels of a trade. Kyle

1521
01:07:09,719 --> 01:07:11,920
Kuzma want to make some sense instead of Julius Randall

1522
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:12,599
in Minnesota.

1523
01:07:13,239 --> 01:07:15,719
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean just the you get the extra year,

1524
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,199
you get the cheaper price point, and you get, like

1525
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:22,880
I guess, the idea of scalability, which Randall has zero of.

1526
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,119
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think he makes more.

1527
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:27,719
Speaker 1: So don't have to be Kuzma and Davis for Randall.

1528
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,760
But it's you can't attach another player if you're Minnesota

1529
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,519
and you have I don't even know if they have

1530
01:07:32,519 --> 01:07:34,000
a swap at this point to give up. But they

1531
01:07:34,039 --> 01:07:35,920
can't give up a swap in twenty thirty or pick

1532
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,960
in twenty thirty one because they already did. So. Next up,

1533
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:40,679
this is yours who's numbers.

1534
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,599
Speaker 3: This is Jeremy Grant, and this will feel overdue, probably

1535
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,039
because in terms of player quality, even though the two

1536
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:50,559
point percentage is way down, he's thirty one. I think

1537
01:07:50,599 --> 01:07:53,000
Grant is better than I'd just pick a number the

1538
01:07:53,079 --> 01:07:58,599
last five six guys we've talked about, just because of the.

1539
01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 2: Theory of his scalability.

1540
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 3: This is a guy that has been a small ball

1541
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,519
center like eons ago and has been a first option

1542
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:07,519
on a bad Pistons team. There's different versions of him,

1543
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:10,400
I think, and not a great defender anymore, but still

1544
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,320
is someone that I think you would trust a lot

1545
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,760
more than certainly the smaller guards. We've talked about all

1546
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,600
this stuff, it just comes down to the salary for him,

1547
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,439
Like he's paid like a plus starter, and I just

1548
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:26,560
don't think that's really what he is anymore. I think, like, realistically,

1549
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,880
the production he would give you on a good team

1550
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,640
is not that far off from Dorin Phinney Smith, like

1551
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,399
with more self creation. But like the price is just

1552
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,079
it's hard to justify that for a lot of teams,

1553
01:08:38,119 --> 01:08:40,399
I think. And that's why I don't think he's too low.

1554
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,039
I think people will say that because he's just he's

1555
01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:45,960
a good player, But the money just has to be

1556
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:47,439
a factor, right, Yeah.

1557
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean three years, one hundred and two point six

1558
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,159
million he's owed, and there's a player option on that

1559
01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:54,880
last year, which anything could happen. But if he's opting

1560
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:56,800
out at that point, I honestly think it's because he's

1561
01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:01,039
like renegotiating a longer deal at a lower number I saw.

1562
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:04,039
I've seen a lot of Blazers, fans and even media

1563
01:09:04,079 --> 01:09:06,960
members over the past year plus think that Portland's gonna

1564
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,800
get substantially more than a first round pick, or that

1565
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,880
it's gonna be I guess, like an incredible first round

1566
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,720
pick to get him. Uh No, I just don't if

1567
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,399
you're giving up more than that to get him, I

1568
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,960
don't like worry. What else are you including or what

1569
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,720
else is port? Is it a combination deal where Robert

1570
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:26,359
Williams the third is also headed out as part of it,

1571
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:28,920
and then it's a mega deal. But I'm curious as

1572
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,000
to just like what would they be willing to accept

1573
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:33,560
for him, because I do think that cont we predicted this,

1574
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,199
that contract wasn't going to age very well, and I

1575
01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:38,479
think that he's still good player now, but I think

1576
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:40,520
those out years, especially when he's shooting what is he

1577
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:44,479
at like forty percent from three excuse me from two,

1578
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:48,880
those out years are looking more precarious than ever.

1579
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, the free throw temper breaks down, like all all

1580
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,680
the indicators of he's slowing down athletically are there.

1581
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: Here's a stat for you, Grant. One hundred and fifty

1582
01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:59,760
eight players are averaging at least five to two point

1583
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,960
a tempts per game. Jeremy Grant's two point percentage out

1584
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,079
of those one hundred and fifty eight players ranks one

1585
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:07,239
hundred and fifty sixth not great.

1586
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,159
Speaker 2: Not great from someone you need to be like an athletic.

1587
01:10:10,279 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: Fact, by the way, the only players below him are

1588
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,680
Jailing to Well and Emmanuel Quickly, who have combined to

1589
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,079
play in eleven games this season.

1590
01:10:17,239 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 3: So just again, if he were making the mid level

1591
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,239
or something like it, and you were getting thirty eight

1592
01:10:23,239 --> 01:10:26,439
percent three point shooting, just enough defensive versatility to be

1593
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,000
a role guy, like, yes, he's way up there. It's

1594
01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:32,880
just you know, who's who's the team that is a

1595
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,000
Jeremy there. Maybe there are several teams that are a

1596
01:10:35,119 --> 01:10:37,800
Jeremy Grant away from, you know, moving up a tier,

1597
01:10:38,199 --> 01:10:42,079
but not at thirty three million a year average annual value.

1598
01:10:42,079 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 2: That's just not that. That isn't a thing.

1599
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: If you were like, what is there is there a

1600
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,680
case me meybehere. If a team came calling where it's

1601
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,800
a couple of contracts and they're expiring money, or maybe

1602
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:54,520
there's a year left on one of them, but you're

1603
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,520
getting what you're Let's say you're splitting Jeremy Grant into

1604
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,000
two players. One of those players is an expir largesspiring contract,

1605
01:11:00,079 --> 01:11:02,920
the other one middle of the ladder maybe has another

1606
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,800
year left on it, and then you're getting a bunch

1607
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,359
of seconds. Should you be considering that offer or is

1608
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:09,560
it at that point it's we might as well.

1609
01:11:09,399 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 2: Just keep them?

1610
01:11:10,079 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 3: No, I think I think that well. I think that

1611
01:11:12,159 --> 01:11:14,439
is what you're looking at. If you're Portland. I was

1612
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,600
I was gonna ask you, like, what if it's just expired,

1613
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,239
what if it's just dead money coming in? Would you

1614
01:11:20,319 --> 01:11:22,720
just do that for like a couple seconds? And all

1615
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,239
you get is you don't get like the mid tier

1616
01:11:25,399 --> 01:11:26,560
prospect guy or whatever.

1617
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:27,119
Speaker 2: You get.

1618
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,239
Speaker 3: All that salary's gone and in its place are guys

1619
01:11:30,279 --> 01:11:33,199
that come off the books and what a shrewder got

1620
01:11:33,279 --> 01:11:36,359
essentially two seconds, you get a couple two or three seconds.

1621
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,359
I think, like I would do it. I don't know

1622
01:11:38,399 --> 01:11:38,920
where it is.

1623
01:11:39,359 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: I think if they're if it's completely expiring, I would

1624
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,439
do it. If it's not, like some the Lakers would

1625
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:45,960
be a good case study. Let's say they're able to

1626
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,319
pile together a bunch of they have a clippers second

1627
01:11:48,319 --> 01:11:50,399
this year, and I think they have some other seconds

1628
01:11:50,399 --> 01:11:52,880
they could give up. But it's like, okay, D'Angelo Russell

1629
01:11:53,399 --> 01:11:56,359
plus what you don't want Gavinson has another year left

1630
01:11:56,359 --> 01:11:58,760
on his deal, but that one that money doesn't work

1631
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,199
like Jalen Houncheapino's expire, so he could work it game

1632
01:12:01,239 --> 01:12:03,960
it that way, but they can't give you purely expiring

1633
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,640
So if you're accepting seconds, is your stipulation? What we

1634
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,920
want purely expiring contracts because and by the way, that's

1635
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:12,600
the other point of all this is that when you're

1636
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,239
over thirty million. He's at thirty two this year, I think,

1637
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,479
or maybe he's a he's at thirty and he's at

1638
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:19,399
thirty two next year, but like that number is not

1639
01:12:20,039 --> 01:12:22,800
an afterthought to get to. He's at twenty nine to

1640
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:26,399
eight this year. So I mean, so Gabe Vincent and

1641
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,199
Angela Russell would work, But if you're not getting a

1642
01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:32,199
first round pick, I don't think the Blazers would do that.

1643
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:34,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1644
01:12:34,319 --> 01:12:36,560
Speaker 3: I would say the Lakers should definitely do that, because

1645
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:38,760
that's just you know, what else are you doing and

1646
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:40,359
you want to keep the powder drive from a first

1647
01:12:40,399 --> 01:12:45,399
round pick perspective, But yeah, I think the Blazers again,

1648
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:46,279
I mean.

1649
01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:50,079
Speaker 1: I can't record. There would have to be like another

1650
01:12:50,119 --> 01:12:52,520
minimum or something included, because I call fall Josh short.

1651
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,119
But still like that's the don't I don't know what

1652
01:12:55,199 --> 01:12:59,000
team is coming in. Even in saying like like here

1653
01:12:59,039 --> 01:13:01,600
are these expiring close to expiring contract will give you

1654
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,279
a bunch of to be clear, he fits anywhere. And

1655
01:13:04,319 --> 01:13:07,840
if the number was like twenty, we're probably having a

1656
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:08,880
much different discussion.

1657
01:13:09,079 --> 01:13:11,159
Speaker 3: Don't you think he's a good example of how the

1658
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:12,399
new CBA has changed things.

1659
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:13,119
Speaker 2: We won't get too far.

1660
01:13:13,159 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 3: I know we don't want to talk about it, but like,

1661
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,680
I really think when he signed, when the Blazers signed

1662
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,640
him to this deal, we talked about how like that's

1663
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,359
a lot, but I think that's probably tradable for like

1664
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,680
neutral or some somewhat positive value, and I think that

1665
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,640
would have been true if not for the new rules.

1666
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,680
I think I think like we're he's like not someone

1667
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:34,680
you cite that often as like see what's happening here?

1668
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:36,560
You talk about like Phoenix, and you talk about the

1669
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,119
heat with Butler and stuff as representative of the difficulties

1670
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,960
that are present now that weren't before. I think in

1671
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:45,800
the old CBA environment, this would be a different conversation.

1672
01:13:46,159 --> 01:13:48,359
I think the market would be broader. I think Portland

1673
01:13:48,399 --> 01:13:50,439
could expect to get more for him, but it's just

1674
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,439
nobody wants anything that's like over a certain threshold that's

1675
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:56,840
not like a clear value like a superstar or a

1676
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:57,680
clear value deal.

1677
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:59,359
Speaker 2: I think that's just changed.

1678
01:13:59,159 --> 01:14:01,359
Speaker 1: And I think it's more complex in the sense that

1679
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:03,680
he's at a price point. And this always would have

1680
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:05,359
been the case. It just would have been easier to

1681
01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:07,039
move him. Where now you're talking about do we need

1682
01:14:07,079 --> 01:14:09,039
to send out three players to make the money work,

1683
01:14:09,279 --> 01:14:11,920
right and like rather than two. So if it was

1684
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,439
just two for one, I think that opens up a

1685
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,079
bunch of different permutations. But because there are some teams

1686
01:14:16,079 --> 01:14:18,239
where it's and this factor is in a new salary rules.

1687
01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:19,760
But like the Lakers are a perfect example. We came

1688
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,279
up with twenty eight million dollars in money, but Nope,

1689
01:14:22,279 --> 01:14:24,279
that's not gonna work because the new they can't. They

1690
01:14:24,279 --> 01:14:26,319
were like half a million under the second apron or

1691
01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:26,800
whatever it is.

1692
01:14:27,359 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 3: And because of that, the team that's giving up multiple

1693
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,239
players has to be like, oh, do we have enough

1694
01:14:31,359 --> 01:14:33,560
left to fill out a roster because we're gonna be

1695
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:34,359
hard capped.

1696
01:14:34,119 --> 01:14:36,239
Speaker 2: Somewhere for aggregating basically.

1697
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 1: Or you get into a point where, especially with Portland,

1698
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:40,960
all right, roster spots are an issue. Who are they waiving?

1699
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,039
So no, we need to rope in third and fourth teams. Now,

1700
01:14:43,119 --> 01:14:46,119
those teams need to be compensated for, Like Detroit is

1701
01:14:46,119 --> 01:14:48,840
probably gonna facilitate like three or four deals by the day.

1702
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,159
Speaker 3: Detroit is the team I am most confident will be

1703
01:14:51,239 --> 01:14:53,760
involved in trades, Like there's just no way stuff gets

1704
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,399
done without Detroit as the third team on like almost

1705
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,439
any high level deal we're talking about.

1706
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:04,039
Speaker 1: We are on too thirteen your guy Jonathan Kaminga, which

1707
01:15:04,079 --> 01:15:06,640
I think is an interesting inclusion, and we need to

1708
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,479
have the discussion of I want to know what he's worth,

1709
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,039
but we first need to ask the question he's mentioned

1710
01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:16,039
in these packages where if they're gonna go after Jimmy Butler,

1711
01:15:16,239 --> 01:15:19,039
if they're gonna go after a big name, are you

1712
01:15:20,279 --> 01:15:26,079
trading him independent of a blockbuster that because if you

1713
01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:29,039
say no, he might not belong on this list. Now

1714
01:15:29,079 --> 01:15:32,119
he's on this list because I feel pretty strongly that

1715
01:15:32,159 --> 01:15:35,680
they should be with him approaching restricted free agency. Specifically,

1716
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:37,600
it'd be different if he's still had another year left

1717
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,359
on his deal, but he doesn't. I strongly believe that

1718
01:15:40,399 --> 01:15:41,920
if there's a team that wants to roll the Dice

1719
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,319
on Jonathan Minga. You're not necessarily getting any better, but

1720
01:15:44,399 --> 01:15:46,479
now you've gotten an asset and you don't have to

1721
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,119
pay Jonathan kaminga twenty five plus million a year or

1722
01:15:49,159 --> 01:15:51,680
whatever it ends up being. I'm probably making that deal

1723
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:52,600
if I'm Golden State.

1724
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1725
01:15:53,199 --> 01:15:57,239
Speaker 3: I think that the short answer, Yes, you are looking

1726
01:15:57,239 --> 01:15:59,199
hard at trading him if it's not in a Jimmy

1727
01:15:59,239 --> 01:16:03,520
Butler or whatever deal. And if you are looking at

1728
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:05,560
Jimmy Butler, then you're also looking at trading him.

1729
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 2: I think it's just like.

1730
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,520
Speaker 3: They were too far apart on extension negotiations, right. The

1731
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:13,119
reporting was he wanted about thirty five a year or

1732
01:16:13,159 --> 01:16:16,880
starting at thirty five, the Warriors wanted thirty not close enough.

1733
01:16:17,399 --> 01:16:20,520
He has not shown anything this season to make the

1734
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:24,920
Warriors side of that negotiation like go up right, like

1735
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,079
like he hasn't done anything this year to indicate that

1736
01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:30,640
a leap has been taken or that oh no, okay,

1737
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:32,720
yeah we're man. I wish we'd signed him. I wish

1738
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,439
we just said yes at thirty five. Like the opposite

1739
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,239
is true. I think I think he has not performed

1740
01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:40,560
well as a starter. All of the biggest issues with

1741
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,439
his game persists this is his he's far enough into

1742
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,760
his career now where it's like you don't just get

1743
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,479
to cite his age and say upside is there and

1744
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,319
specifically from the war like that's not to say three

1745
01:16:51,359 --> 01:16:53,760
years from now he might not be what he thinks

1746
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:57,520
he can be, But the Warriors timeline doesn't care about

1747
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:01,119
three years from now, and a couple with probably what

1748
01:17:01,119 --> 01:17:03,960
we should have led with, like you're you're gonna lose him.

1749
01:17:04,079 --> 01:17:06,359
I think like you're gonna lose him in free agency,

1750
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,520
and if you do get him back, it might be

1751
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,800
at a low number because the market wasn't what he

1752
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:13,880
thought it would be and he's kind of upset and

1753
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,159
is the same guy anyway. So I don't know that

1754
01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:18,319
that's a win if you get him back at twenty

1755
01:17:18,359 --> 01:17:20,560
five a year or twenty a year, because you're just

1756
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,640
looking to trade him anyway to a market that just

1757
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,479
told you exactly what he's worth through restrict free agency.

1758
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,119
So I think you probably do just need to be

1759
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:32,159
looking at moving him full stop right like all of there,

1760
01:17:32,199 --> 01:17:35,560
I don't understand the justification for keeping him unless it's

1761
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:39,680
just we're okay with bringing him back at whatever restricted

1762
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:42,760
free agency says he's worth and chancing that he's cool

1763
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,720
with it and everything works out. Like from a I

1764
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:49,239
don't know a team dynamic perspective.

1765
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:53,079
Speaker 1: Is there any team that, again, independent of this blockbuster,

1766
01:17:53,399 --> 01:17:55,560
if you're dealing with Golden State, you're trading them. Jimmy

1767
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,840
Butler says, yeah, we'll take Johnathan Kamingo. Why not as

1768
01:17:57,880 --> 01:17:59,520
part of like the salary matching coming in? Is there

1769
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,319
any team that because he is still tantalizeding like the

1770
01:18:02,399 --> 01:18:06,279
on ball stuff on offense, independent of the playmaking, it's

1771
01:18:06,279 --> 01:18:09,359
still like I see it and you know, not Jonathan,

1772
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:11,439
Like I'm not super high on him. But also at

1773
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,960
the same time, it's like his efficiency on drives is down,

1774
01:18:15,119 --> 01:18:19,199
his officency on dunks has plunged this year, and I can't.

1775
01:18:19,239 --> 01:18:22,000
I look at a team and it's like, what is

1776
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,560
the team they're presumably they could be good, they could

1777
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,880
be bad. That's like that's his salary structure. That's maybe

1778
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:28,760
you think they can help them. But I almost I

1779
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:32,800
look at him as a one position player. And if

1780
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,319
you consider him a wing or a combo forward or

1781
01:18:35,359 --> 01:18:37,199
maybe a combo big, if you really think that he

1782
01:18:37,239 --> 01:18:41,359
can upsize, sure, I just I struggled to find that. Again,

1783
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,159
the talent, like the raw talent is undeniable, like the

1784
01:18:44,159 --> 01:18:47,399
physical tools are there and we've seen like in ways

1785
01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:49,119
you've been able to people said the same thing about

1786
01:18:49,159 --> 01:18:51,840
James Wiseman, like there have been extended stretches like what

1787
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,600
Jonathan Cominga did to Clothe last year. I also am

1788
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,479
struggling though, to find the team where it's yeah, don'pe

1789
01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:59,279
be teams that will give up whatever just to take home,

1790
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:01,119
but like a team that value him and say, hey,

1791
01:19:01,159 --> 01:19:02,520
here's something.

1792
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,039
Speaker 3: I think there's maybe like two kinds of teams that

1793
01:19:06,039 --> 01:19:08,640
that makes sense for him. It's the nothing what he

1794
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,920
doesn't what I wouldn't feel good about, is him going

1795
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:13,279
somewhere where he has to play a role on a

1796
01:19:13,319 --> 01:19:15,279
good team, because like we're looking at that and that's

1797
01:19:15,359 --> 01:19:18,199
just not the fit at the moment. I think on

1798
01:19:18,279 --> 01:19:21,159
the high end, like Miami, where it's like we're not

1799
01:19:21,319 --> 01:19:24,479
hard resetting, but we're gonna buy low and rehab somebody

1800
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:26,239
and like figure out how to get the best out

1801
01:19:26,279 --> 01:19:28,199
of them mentioned them already as a team that does that,

1802
01:19:28,319 --> 01:19:30,640
or the nothing to lose teams like a Brooklyn where

1803
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,319
it's just you want to explore the space you want

1804
01:19:33,359 --> 01:19:37,600
to get a full season of twenty eight percent usage

1805
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:39,039
and all the shots you can get and all the

1806
01:19:39,079 --> 01:19:42,840
on ball reps just to see what happens, like worst slash,

1807
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,840
best case, we're terrible, and the like we get another

1808
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,920
high pick, or you develop into what you you know

1809
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,239
your ceiling might be great, Like I think those are

1810
01:19:51,279 --> 01:19:53,079
those are the like there's two ends of the spectrum,

1811
01:19:53,159 --> 01:19:56,159
I think, but in both cases I do think like,

1812
01:19:57,199 --> 01:19:59,920
if you're getting him, you need to know he's not

1813
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:02,920
he doesn't want to be Gerald Wallace like, which is like,

1814
01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:05,079
I know that's a wait, that's a twenty year old

1815
01:20:05,079 --> 01:20:07,520
reference basically at this point, but it's just like the

1816
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,000
best athlete on the floor that plays incredibly hard and

1817
01:20:10,039 --> 01:20:12,520
you don't run plays for him, and he just bangs

1818
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:16,960
around and dominates games in ways that are have nothing

1819
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,520
to do with on ball iso creation stuff, Like he

1820
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:22,840
doesn't want that, even if that might be what he's

1821
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:25,399
best suited for. So you need to go in with

1822
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:28,239
eyes open, like on that front. So if you believe

1823
01:20:28,279 --> 01:20:31,560
he can be a lead offensive piece or like a

1824
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,079
major offensive piece of a team, and you're willing to

1825
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,279
trust that and not need him to be like a

1826
01:20:37,279 --> 01:20:40,680
good driver of offense as a passer or a good defender.

1827
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:43,359
Speaker 2: Go for it. That's you just need to know what

1828
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:45,920
you're what you're getting. At this point, I'm.

1829
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:48,399
Speaker 1: Only mentioning this team because they were mentioned I think

1830
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:50,720
before the season started or right as the season started.

1831
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:53,119
But I'm gonna frame it this way, and maybe this

1832
01:20:53,159 --> 01:20:55,479
applies to other teams. But you're getting a first round pick.

1833
01:20:56,399 --> 01:20:58,279
It's this team's own first round pick, but it's not

1834
01:20:58,279 --> 01:21:02,439
guaranteed to convey because whatever the protections are on it.

1835
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,640
Philly might be a team where it's they're bad right now,

1836
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,399
but if they're protecting their own pick, they're inoculated against

1837
01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:10,680
disaster and they're thinking, no, we're eventually gonna send Golden

1838
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,199
State the twenty first pick in the draft, or maybe

1839
01:21:13,199 --> 01:21:15,880
even something worse. Is that a deal Golden State needs

1840
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,600
to consider it this But you're getting expiring money and

1841
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:20,920
a pick that is only really going to convey if

1842
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:23,800
it's like, yeah, I think the lottery.

1843
01:21:24,039 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 3: I think maybe at this point and from that that

1844
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,760
is a Philly type acquisition. Because if you're concerned about

1845
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:33,680
a player that like or you're interested in talking about,

1846
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:35,720
I shouldn't say Philly type, like more of a moriy

1847
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,720
type acquisition. It's like, you know, if Jonathan Minga hits

1848
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:41,199
like our championship equity goes up one point nine percent,

1849
01:21:41,319 --> 01:21:43,720
Like that's really that. That makes sense on that end

1850
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,159
of it too. It just it doesn't feel bleak if

1851
01:21:47,159 --> 01:21:49,119
that's what the Warriors get for him at this point,

1852
01:21:49,239 --> 01:21:51,800
it's maybe realistic, but that feels that's kind of a bummer.

1853
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:54,520
Speaker 1: I understand why they wouldn't do that. To be clear,

1854
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:56,319
I'm not even advocating for it. I honestly don't know,

1855
01:21:56,359 --> 01:21:59,399
because it's okay if the alternative is paying him a

1856
01:21:59,399 --> 01:22:02,560
bunch of money free agency, I probably prefer the pick.

1857
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,800
But now you're saying, now, could we squeeze him because

1858
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,479
no team gave out an offer sheet and restrict to

1859
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,520
free agency this year? What team is doing it next year?

1860
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:11,199
Maybe Brooklyn would, But then you want or you don't

1861
01:22:11,279 --> 01:22:12,600
let him walk for nothing or match a deal you

1862
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:14,199
don't want on your books, or as you mentioned at

1863
01:22:14,199 --> 01:22:16,800
the top, is he's just unhappy and then what does

1864
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:18,399
that do for Now you have him on a deal

1865
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:21,159
that's less than what you would have paid him last offseason,

1866
01:22:21,239 --> 01:22:23,399
but he's not any more tradable because he's not playing

1867
01:22:23,399 --> 01:22:25,920
well or doesn't fit in. I think you probably if

1868
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:29,119
it's only a like a top, if you're only getting

1869
01:22:29,119 --> 01:22:31,920
like the sixteenth number sixteen pick. Let's just say, if

1870
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,680
you're the words, you probably have to wait right like

1871
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:36,079
it's just now, we'll keep cominga and play.

1872
01:22:36,279 --> 01:22:38,079
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, and we should have led with this,

1873
01:22:38,199 --> 01:22:41,039
but I can't my opinion like a disclaimer, we should

1874
01:22:41,119 --> 01:22:43,399
like just pre records, like my opinion cannot be trusted

1875
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:46,600
on all warriors transactional pertaining to the pertaining to the

1876
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:50,760
Golden State. Please do not act on or repeat to

1877
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,680
your friends anything I say about the Warriors.

1878
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 1: I think the dunked on guys proposed it was Kevon

1879
01:22:55,920 --> 01:23:01,479
Looney and Jonathan kaminga for Miles Turner, and they wondered

1880
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,119
if Indiana would have to send something else out in return.

1881
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,520
So I'm wondering if I'm too low on Because I

1882
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,239
heard that, I was like, I don't Miles Turners not

1883
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:14,800
having a good year, But uh no.

1884
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:16,560
Speaker 3: Okay, see again, please here, please refer to disclaimer. Why

1885
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:20,039
isn't Indiana doing that? Like what Indiana should do that?

1886
01:23:20,159 --> 01:23:26,239
Speaker 1: Who's their center? Thomas Bryant. Okay, right, Okay, sure, I mean.

1887
01:23:26,279 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 3: Why not NBH multiple time NBA champion Kevon Looney.

1888
01:23:31,039 --> 01:23:32,359
Speaker 2: Like that's what you're saying to say.

1889
01:23:32,279 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 1: Someone's gonna hurt a defense that's twenty ninth against top

1890
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,920
twenty offenses. I have faith that Jonathan can make I

1891
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:38,399
could do it.

1892
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, we gotta move on a get emotional.

1893
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:47,199
Speaker 1: Number fourteen John Collins. Oh sorry, this was yours. Do

1894
01:23:47,199 --> 01:23:48,359
you want to say number fourteen?

1895
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 2: John Collins? Uh, value rehab a little bit. This has

1896
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:54,279
been a roller.

1897
01:23:54,079 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 3: Coaster of a value situation for John Collins over the

1898
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:00,319
last several years. The big news is, I think it

1899
01:24:00,359 --> 01:24:03,439
was Tony Jones who was talking about this. He can

1900
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:05,560
play the four now because he's shooting it well enough,

1901
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,399
and defensively he's shown some mobility, so it's not like

1902
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,279
he's a five only and can't play the five either,

1903
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:14,319
like as a defender. Really, so, I think his value

1904
01:24:14,359 --> 01:24:16,439
is a little higher than it has been. I'm not

1905
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,119
saying he belongs any higher than this though, just because

1906
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:25,319
he's still really an offense first, like not truly four,

1907
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:29,319
not truly five. That makes a decent enough chunk of money,

1908
01:24:29,359 --> 01:24:33,399
but it's a short term deal. So he feels like

1909
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:37,359
someone that's man. I wish he made like five million

1910
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:38,960
less and then it'd be like, oh, he's getting traded

1911
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:39,319
for sure.

1912
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,319
Speaker 1: Twenty seven are close to almost twenty six or twenty five.

1913
01:24:42,319 --> 01:24:45,800
It's just point six this year. But he only always grant.

1914
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:49,000
It feels like he just sawn that extension. He's a

1915
01:24:49,039 --> 01:24:51,359
player option for next year at twenty six point seven.

1916
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,159
So there's a chance that you're looking at an expiring contract.

1917
01:24:54,159 --> 01:24:56,479
I would guess that you're not. But it's so short

1918
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,399
term that it's no. I'm not giving up a first

1919
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,439
round pick get him, but you actually could probably use

1920
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,399
him as a mechanism to get a first round pick, right,

1921
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,840
because there are there are worse contracts out there.

1922
01:25:06,239 --> 01:25:08,560
Speaker 3: What is he what's he get on the market if

1923
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:10,640
he opts out? I don't know that that's a given.

1924
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 2: Is he, like so just.

1925
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,199
Speaker 1: A mid level guy, which is fourteen point one? Right?

1926
01:25:14,279 --> 01:25:14,520
Or no?

1927
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,520
Speaker 3: So he just turned twenty seven a couple months ago,

1928
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:21,359
he's I mean, the forty four percent from three is

1929
01:25:21,399 --> 01:25:23,800
not a real thing. He's thirty six, first career, not

1930
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:24,520
high volume.

1931
01:25:25,079 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 2: Is he like a is he.

1932
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:30,640
Speaker 3: Like a better Bobby portis like is that. I mean,

1933
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:33,159
I don't know that Bobby Portis's contract is the right

1934
01:25:33,279 --> 01:25:35,439
comp because the Bucks kind of like we got to

1935
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,399
keep him type of thing, he might get more than

1936
01:25:38,399 --> 01:25:42,720
the mid level. I mean maybe I don't know if

1937
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:44,439
I'm just thinking about it from the perspective of if

1938
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:47,680
you're trading for him, are you doing it with an

1939
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:49,720
eye toward like he's a piece we're going to keep

1940
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,840
in the rotation via a new contract going forward, and

1941
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,079
depending on that number, you might make a case that

1942
01:25:55,079 --> 01:25:55,880
he belongs higher.

1943
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:57,319
Speaker 2: But like, I don't know.

1944
01:25:58,359 --> 01:26:02,079
Speaker 1: If you're Utah, the two kind of constructs I thought about,

1945
01:26:02,399 --> 01:26:06,039
are are you taking back two contracts plus seconds like

1946
01:26:06,119 --> 01:26:09,800
Kevin Herder Trey Lyles and seconds for John Collins or

1947
01:26:10,199 --> 01:26:12,439
I mean, he'd be really interesting on the Lakers. I

1948
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:14,000
know he's not a center, but to play next to

1949
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,079
a d Now do you give up? Daniel Russell's expiring?

1950
01:26:17,119 --> 01:26:20,279
So you talk and say, sure, so d'anzel Russell plus

1951
01:26:20,319 --> 01:26:22,680
salary X get whether it's Gabe Vincent, it could be

1952
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:25,359
Jared Vanderbilt at this point, but then it's well, now

1953
01:26:25,359 --> 01:26:27,880
we're just really like we have no guards. It's well,

1954
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:29,640
you have guards, but we don't have anyone who's gonna

1955
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:31,680
handle the ball aside from Lebron and we'll run it

1956
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:33,960
through a d. But like that's the type of framework.

1957
01:26:34,039 --> 01:26:36,880
Is those types of deals plus seconds? Or if you're Utah,

1958
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,039
are you just holding you're bad enough? You have enough

1959
01:26:39,039 --> 01:26:42,399
extra draft equity?

1960
01:26:42,399 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 2: Man.

1961
01:26:43,159 --> 01:26:46,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, as you're talking to you, just saying the Lakers,

1962
01:26:47,239 --> 01:26:49,359
if you're the Lakers, would you rather trade what it

1963
01:26:49,359 --> 01:26:50,159
costs for John Collins?

1964
01:26:50,239 --> 01:26:51,720
Speaker 2: Or trade would it costs for Jeremy Grant?

1965
01:26:52,039 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming I'd rather trade would it costs for John?

1966
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,000
Because you have to figure their first round pick they're

1967
01:26:57,039 --> 01:27:00,399
giving up is in twenty twenty nine or later. Yeah,

1968
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:02,279
you're not giving that up for John Coss. So it's

1969
01:27:02,359 --> 01:27:05,079
John Collins for me. The contract is shorter, not as

1970
01:27:05,079 --> 01:27:07,239
good of a fit on defense, can't handle the ball

1971
01:27:07,239 --> 01:27:09,479
as much on offense, But he's more it's probably about

1972
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,439
as plug and play. But you could you could try

1973
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:14,800
you're not playing defense anyway, you could try playing him

1974
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:16,199
at center when eight he's not on the court.

1975
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you at least have like a i don't know,

1976
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:22,399
like a potentially fun offensive dynamic with him there. That's

1977
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:24,239
like then we need he needs to be higher, I get,

1978
01:27:24,319 --> 01:27:26,560
but like, that's that's a pretty unique situation. I think

1979
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:28,960
in a vacuum, you know, people might still care more

1980
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:31,600
about Jeremy Grant even with that money. He's an interesting play,

1981
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,920
although like checking checking with us next year when John

1982
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,279
Collins value is like god knows where because it just

1983
01:27:37,319 --> 01:27:38,760
can't stay the same year to year.

1984
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,840
Speaker 1: Another interesting player here a Vouch at number fifteen, which

1985
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:44,720
feels high because there's no way I would want to

1986
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:46,960
know what contract Chakag was taking back that they got

1987
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:50,279
a first round pick for Vouch. He is having the

1988
01:27:50,319 --> 01:27:53,159
most efficient season of his career, pretty much a year

1989
01:27:53,199 --> 01:27:55,920
and twenty one point five million left on it. If

1990
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,600
he's gonna shoot threes at a clip that is the

1991
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:00,680
or hit his threes, I should say, at a clip

1992
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:01,319
that is.

1993
01:28:01,279 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 2: This high forty eight percent?

1994
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 1: Right, you want him? But like even if he comes

1995
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,640
down to forty, that's acceptable, right Grant? I mean, I

1996
01:28:10,399 --> 01:28:12,840
guess that's fine. He's also shooting sixty four and a

1997
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:15,119
half percent on twoes, and so I think you have

1998
01:28:15,159 --> 01:28:18,760
to view this through a little like at least a

1999
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,800
bunch of smoke and mirrors. Maybe, but Voch has more

2000
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,359
value than he did this year this time last year.

2001
01:28:24,359 --> 01:28:27,399
Because his contract is shorter, he's playing better. I just

2002
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:29,199
don't know where to put him because the Lakers are

2003
01:28:29,199 --> 01:28:31,720
another team. That's an example. I would trade Dan Angel

2004
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:34,439
Russell in seconds for him, straight up. But that's like

2005
01:28:35,039 --> 01:28:37,359
expiring money in seconds. Feels like your cap on a

2006
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:38,399
Vooch trade.

2007
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:41,800
Speaker 3: I would agree with that. I think it's a rental.

2008
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:43,600
There's no tuble.

2009
01:28:44,079 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 1: The Bulls won't make the trade, then they're gonna keep

2010
01:28:46,039 --> 01:28:47,279
him in try and win, correct.

2011
01:28:48,079 --> 01:28:50,039
Speaker 2: I mean, god damn it that it kind of makes sense.

2012
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:51,199
I hate it.

2013
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,000
Speaker 1: Would you are there any teams aside from the Lakers

2014
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:56,840
that you would I thought about the Spurs.

2015
01:28:57,239 --> 01:29:01,359
Speaker 3: No, maybe, I mean any that's willing to play Zach

2016
01:29:01,399 --> 01:29:03,720
Collins next to Wimby should be thinking about Vooch.

2017
01:29:04,039 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 2: Uh yeah. I mean, like again, if the Pelicans were

2018
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:09,520
doing anything, it would have made sense.

2019
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 3: There just anywhere you're talking about, because what he is

2020
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:15,239
now is any place that used to car used to

2021
01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:18,600
target Kelly o Linok. I think minus the passing is like,

2022
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,840
we'll take a guy that can space and shoot and

2023
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:25,760
score fairly efficiently that we probably can't close with, and

2024
01:29:26,279 --> 01:29:26,920
you know, it's a.

2025
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:28,159
Speaker 2: It's a weird subset of teams.

2026
01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 3: I don't know that contenders have any use for him

2027
01:29:31,039 --> 01:29:33,800
in like a major role, certainly not as a closer.

2028
01:29:34,319 --> 01:29:36,800
So like, if that's the role you have him in,

2029
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:39,520
then yeah, like it's pretty narrow.

2030
01:29:40,279 --> 01:29:41,199
Speaker 2: Who needs spacing?

2031
01:29:41,319 --> 01:29:42,159
Speaker 1: What about the dubs?

2032
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2033
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:47,319
Speaker 3: Just as a shooter, I think like Draymond has, by

2034
01:29:47,359 --> 01:29:51,720
the way, slipped defensively, but like having someone there next

2035
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:54,640
to him to to, you know, pick up the clean

2036
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:56,439
up the mess, I think would be useful.

2037
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 2: I mean, what about Orlando, he go back.

2038
01:30:04,279 --> 01:30:06,520
Speaker 1: And then at some point they'll start, They'll play Palo

2039
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:08,840
and Franz Wagner and Vooch and Johnathan and I it

2040
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:10,039
would be all centers.

2041
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,159
Speaker 3: Just as a backup where you have to have Isaac

2042
01:30:12,239 --> 01:30:14,560
or like Goga out there with him. I don't know

2043
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:17,000
that it's I'm just trying to think of places that don't.

2044
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 1: Will they take Mitchell Robinson and Precious to Chua and

2045
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:22,359
then another small contra will put him on the Nicks

2046
01:30:22,359 --> 01:30:24,479
with calling Anthony Towns and see what happens to the defense.

2047
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:27,079
Speaker 2: How fun would that be? Look think of the space dude.

2048
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:31,840
Speaker 1: That's but it's another where I think he's been really good,

2049
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:33,479
but I think there are a limited number of teams that,

2050
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,840
even with his market being low, yeah, would necessarily trade,

2051
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:38,720
Like would Charlotte just take a look at him as

2052
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:40,680
like we're not really sure many minutes Mark Williams can

2053
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,239
play when healthy, but they also have Nick Richards there,

2054
01:30:43,239 --> 01:30:43,840
so who knows.

2055
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't hate that. I'm trying to

2056
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,840
think Miami. No, I'm just thinking like.

2057
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Well, apparently wants a five to play next.

2058
01:30:53,159 --> 01:30:56,560
Speaker 3: Four makes sense as a defender, Like that's I still

2059
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,760
Miami was not going to do that? Yeah, it I

2060
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:03,239
think what'd you say? Like like basically just seconds?

2061
01:31:03,319 --> 01:31:05,640
Speaker 2: Like that's there. You're never getting first, you're never getting

2062
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:06,479
a contract.

2063
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:08,720
Speaker 1: Yield fans beyond next year is probably.

2064
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:10,640
Speaker 2: I think that's the cap there.

2065
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 1: We're into the latter half, which is gonna go a

2066
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,039
lot quicker than the first half. Who's number sixteen Grand Well,

2067
01:31:15,039 --> 01:31:16,479
I'm gonna spend twenty five minutes on this.

2068
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:22,359
Speaker 3: I was gonna say for sure this is iodasummu fits anywhere?

2069
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,840
What was he make seven this year? You have one

2070
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,800
more year left. We've already talked like.

2071
01:31:29,399 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 2: Maybe you could extend him.

2072
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:32,880
Speaker 3: Probably, I don't I don't know. It's hard to say, Well,

2073
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:35,319
we'll see what the market looks like. You know, not

2074
01:31:35,359 --> 01:31:37,079
going to be a star on either end, probably not

2075
01:31:37,119 --> 01:31:40,680
going to start for you. But I do think he's

2076
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:45,560
someone that you you could probably because the price is

2077
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:49,319
so low, you could get an asset of like future value.

2078
01:31:49,399 --> 01:31:53,800
I think probably not first, probably talking seconds, And then

2079
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:55,479
that's kind of an argument for not trading him.

2080
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 2: I guess.

2081
01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:59,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're still very much of the mind that the

2082
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:03,359
Bulls should consider trading virtually everybody except for Modess bozellis.

2083
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:06,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there are so many teams I would

2084
01:32:06,199 --> 01:32:07,760
love him on, but I don't think you're going I

2085
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:10,319
don't think his standalone value is a first round pick,

2086
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:13,319
and that might be where the problem is. But you're

2087
01:32:13,359 --> 01:32:16,760
also he would Also problematic is that he makes so

2088
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:19,720
little that you can't necessarily up his I guess if

2089
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,600
you attach him to another player, you can't necessarily up

2090
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:25,399
his value by saying we'll take back a bad contract

2091
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:28,079
and then give us a first round pick that way,

2092
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:31,399
And it's just who would you attach him to to

2093
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:34,600
make that like? Because if you were the like the

2094
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:36,760
Bucks aren't going to he would be great on the Bucks.

2095
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:38,359
But they're not going to give up their only tradable

2096
01:32:38,359 --> 01:32:41,079
first round pick off into the distance for him, And

2097
01:32:41,119 --> 01:32:43,479
so I struggled to find Matt team. And if I'm

2098
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:45,000
the Bulls, this is the one player where it's right.

2099
01:32:45,039 --> 01:32:48,079
If they offer two seconds and expiring money, I'll probably

2100
01:32:48,079 --> 01:32:49,159
just hold on to ioassume.

2101
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:53,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think get broken record.

2102
01:32:53,239 --> 01:32:54,760
Speaker 3: Last year was probably the time to do it because

2103
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,199
he was shooting forty percent from three last year. You

2104
01:32:57,279 --> 01:33:00,279
had just a longer runway as the Bulls to hey,

2105
01:33:00,279 --> 01:33:02,760
you get him for two plus you know two years

2106
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:03,640
going forward?

2107
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:07,199
Speaker 1: Do you think it's again? It have to be a

2108
01:33:07,239 --> 01:33:12,119
smaller salary plus precious plus that fake it's not fake.

2109
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:14,960
I mean it could convey, but that Washington first. Is

2110
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,119
that a deal that Chicago would consider.

2111
01:33:18,359 --> 01:33:21,039
Speaker 3: I take a fake first, even if it's like a

2112
01:33:21,119 --> 01:33:23,640
dubious fake first, if I'm Chicago, that's that's better than

2113
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:24,680
a real second.

2114
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 1: Dubious first, because it could might not be a first,

2115
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:29,199
but it's a dubious first.

2116
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:31,319
Speaker 2: It's like a one and a half.

2117
01:33:32,159 --> 01:33:34,840
Speaker 1: He would go there, although there are I could we

2118
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:36,960
just name every single team in the league basically, I

2119
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:38,960
mean Atlanta, he'd be super interesting on if you think

2120
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:40,960
he could give you some backup point guard reps. There

2121
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:43,680
By the way, his defensive scalability is the thing for

2122
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:46,640
me where it's oh, look Io's guarding a four and

2123
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:50,199
it's it's okay. So he'd fit a lot of places.

2124
01:33:50,199 --> 01:33:52,880
But the fact that if it's a bigger deal, maybe

2125
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:55,680
that's the pathway too. It's Io dessum U plus. I mean,

2126
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:59,000
Zachlvie makes so much money, but is it Iotazumu plus

2127
01:33:59,039 --> 01:34:01,439
Vouch plus we take back a really bad contract and

2128
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:03,840
get a first That way, I don't know. Number seventeen

2129
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,279
is what I find to be one of the more

2130
01:34:07,359 --> 01:34:10,760
underrated players on this list. Mister Clinton Propella. He's a

2131
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:12,960
year left on his he's gonna be a free agent,

2132
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:16,000
excuse me. And we know I saw the reporting I

2133
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:18,039
think it was from Jake Fisher that Atlanta prefers to

2134
01:34:18,039 --> 01:34:21,199
move him, and they haven't given any real hint that

2135
01:34:21,279 --> 01:34:23,760
like they don't want to play him though, So that's

2136
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:25,960
just a weird thing. He's been Opponents are shooting under

2137
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,039
fifty five percent against him at the rim. He can

2138
01:34:28,079 --> 01:34:31,680
still rebound. He's limited offensively, but he's helping anchor what's

2139
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,279
been a pretty good defense in Atlanta. If they want

2140
01:34:34,319 --> 01:34:37,079
to move him, you're not getting a first. But like,

2141
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,479
if they want to move him, they're assuming they'll take

2142
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:41,279
back seconds. I think there are a bunch of teams

2143
01:34:41,279 --> 01:34:43,159
then that should be looked like, even if he doesn't

2144
01:34:43,159 --> 01:34:45,399
fit what you want to do, if you just get

2145
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,279
to expirings, if you're the Warriors, expirings in seconds, as

2146
01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:50,199
far as you have any left, like, that's a team

2147
01:34:50,239 --> 01:34:52,399
that should be looking at it. I just I still

2148
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:54,359
find him to be very underrated. I'm not saying he'll

2149
01:34:54,359 --> 01:34:56,439
command a ton. He's number seventeen out of thirty, but

2150
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:59,520
I'm just surprised that I'm looking at Atlantic like, I

2151
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:01,399
know you have one ya, but it's all right, so

2152
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:04,039
you want to play who at the five? Moving forward? Oh,

2153
01:35:04,159 --> 01:35:06,840
Yeka and who? We haven't seen on Yuka play thirty

2154
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:08,960
plus minutes, but it seems like you almost need to

2155
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,520
have sort of a co op. He's also small. Cy

2156
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:12,680
Copella is not that small.

2157
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:15,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think Capella has been better this

2158
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:18,159
year just basically across the board. Like at this time

2159
01:35:18,239 --> 01:35:19,760
last year, I think it was like, oh my god,

2160
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:21,479
what are they gonna have to pay to get off

2161
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:25,600
of him. He's just like he's limited, right, Like he's not.

2162
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:28,760
You want him to catch lobs and you want him

2163
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,199
to to block defend the rim, and he's like doing

2164
01:35:31,239 --> 01:35:35,920
that right now. I just it's kind of the Vucevich thing. Well,

2165
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:38,199
I don't know, maybe it's not, because couldn't you imagine

2166
01:35:38,239 --> 01:35:41,279
Capella being the starting center on like a on a

2167
01:35:41,399 --> 01:35:44,720
in like a I don't know, and like a Gafford slash.

2168
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:47,159
Lively is different because he's so mobile, but like if

2169
01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:49,239
Daniel Gafford can play major minutes for a team that

2170
01:35:49,279 --> 01:35:51,039
makes the finals, like, couldn't Capella?

2171
01:35:51,159 --> 01:35:53,720
Speaker 2: Like how different are they really? I guess you know.

2172
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:56,279
Speaker 1: It's like why I know that the spacing could walking

2173
01:35:56,319 --> 01:35:58,199
be like why are the Lakers if they really want

2174
01:35:58,239 --> 01:36:01,079
to slide Ad down in certain lineups? The Lakers D'Angelo

2175
01:36:01,159 --> 01:36:03,439
Russell that Hawks need a backup point guard. Again, I

2176
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:05,720
don't know what's happening to your offense in LA figured

2177
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:08,760
it out later, but that plus needs to be another

2178
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:12,520
salary and second a second if like how I'm just

2179
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:16,000
curious he's starting for Atlanta, Like what is it? And

2180
01:36:16,039 --> 01:36:18,560
you want to move him? So what are you accepting

2181
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:19,920
for him, I.

2182
01:36:20,239 --> 01:36:21,399
Speaker 2: Well, I think you're accepting.

2183
01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:23,239
Speaker 3: You just need to know you're not getting a first,

2184
01:36:23,399 --> 01:36:26,199
you're not getting like a young asset. I think it

2185
01:36:26,279 --> 01:36:28,960
is it's money and seconds. And he makes twenty two

2186
01:36:29,199 --> 01:36:32,399
almost twenty three million this year, So it's it's the

2187
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:35,319
Vucevich thing where it's like what, it's just a I

2188
01:36:35,359 --> 01:36:38,880
don't know. I think between Vucovich and Capella and I

2189
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:40,920
guess Collins is a little different. It's like these guys

2190
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:43,640
might just stay where they are and hit free agency,

2191
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:45,439
which is like unheard of in the past, where all

2192
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:48,359
these guys would always get traded on these expiring situations.

2193
01:36:48,359 --> 01:36:51,960
But I just think circumstances are different now because what like,

2194
01:36:52,199 --> 01:36:56,640
if you're the Hawks, you can you realistically expect to

2195
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:58,880
get something back that is like, oh, we want that thing.

2196
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:01,439
And then also we're not taking on long term money.

2197
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:03,159
I don't know, they're not gonna want to take on

2198
01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:04,680
long term money. That's a good point.

2199
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's tough.

2200
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:09,000
Speaker 3: He's a good player, though, Like he's a mid mid

2201
01:37:09,199 --> 01:37:11,000
a mid tier starting center.

2202
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:13,720
Speaker 1: Who's more likely to get traded John Collins, Nikola Vucevich

2203
01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:15,520
or Clint Capella.

2204
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:20,279
Speaker 3: I think it might be Collins, which sounds weird because

2205
01:37:20,279 --> 01:37:22,920
the money is he's got the highest salary, but I

2206
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:25,760
I can imagine him being.

2207
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:30,159
Speaker 1: Us most determined to be bad. What's that Utah's of

2208
01:37:30,199 --> 01:37:32,680
those teams is most determined.

2209
01:37:32,279 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 2: To be bad?

2210
01:37:33,279 --> 01:37:35,239
Speaker 3: That is true too, Yeah, the Bulls and Hawks. The

2211
01:37:35,279 --> 01:37:36,800
Hawks that I don't know what the Hawks are trying

2212
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:38,720
to do, but I am I'm interested in the Hawks

2213
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:41,520
going right now? Yeah, I think I don't know what

2214
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:42,560
do you think of those three?

2215
01:37:43,199 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 1: I think it's bouch just because with the Jazz it's

2216
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:47,840
I know that they're probably less married to all of

2217
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:50,560
their players than anyone else. But I also just like,

2218
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:54,000
why are you trading John Collins? For You're not getting

2219
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:55,880
a first, So if you're getting a first, that's different.

2220
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:58,000
But you have all these other picks already. Why are

2221
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,920
you trading? And you're also bad enough in Chicago's case,

2222
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:03,039
if you want to get bad enough, you probably need

2223
01:38:03,119 --> 01:38:04,359
to move Booch at this point. Yeah.

2224
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:06,000
Speaker 3: Are we also at the point of the big board

2225
01:38:06,039 --> 01:38:09,399
where it's like, presumably these guys are all more likely

2226
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:14,439
than not to not be traded. Who's number eighteen one?

2227
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:17,279
Malcolm Brogden the Washington Wizards point guard.

2228
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:20,399
Speaker 1: He was injured to start the year, and a twenty

2229
01:38:20,399 --> 01:38:22,199
two and a half million. That's just a tough number

2230
01:38:22,239 --> 01:38:22,640
to move.

2231
01:38:23,039 --> 01:38:23,720
Speaker 2: Is that expiring?

2232
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 1: That is right, Yeah, it's expiring at twenty two point five.

2233
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:29,079
So there are teams where theoret, I mean, he make

2234
01:38:29,079 --> 01:38:30,359
a lot of sense. Could we try to trade him

2235
01:38:30,359 --> 01:38:32,039
to the Clippers again? But how are you getting to

2236
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,159
Are you rolling the dice on giving up man in PJ.

2237
01:38:35,319 --> 01:38:39,720
Tucker for Malcolm Brogden. I don't I think Washington does that,

2238
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:41,079
to be honest with the Clippers.

2239
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think Washington would do that.

2240
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:46,319
Speaker 3: It's with him, it's I mean, he's been he hasn't

2241
01:38:46,359 --> 01:38:49,079
been great, but he's still a guy you can trust

2242
01:38:49,079 --> 01:38:51,840
to hit threes. Like the locker room presence is a

2243
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:54,720
real thing, I guess, and maybe that matters for maybe

2244
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,319
that broadens his appeal so to where it's not just

2245
01:38:57,399 --> 01:39:01,920
contenders to need a third guard type of thing. The health, though,

2246
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:04,680
from a contender's perspective, like you just can't thirty nine

2247
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:08,199
games last year, thirty six two years ago has basically

2248
01:39:08,199 --> 01:39:10,880
been I don't know what the average is, but there's

2249
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:13,239
a lot of fifties and sixties and forties in his

2250
01:39:13,279 --> 01:39:16,159
games played totals, so that might hurt it from a

2251
01:39:16,199 --> 01:39:17,319
contender's perspective.

2252
01:39:17,319 --> 01:39:20,560
Speaker 2: You just can't trust him to stay healthy. I do

2253
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:21,960
think he's like.

2254
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:24,720
Speaker 3: The Robert Williams of point guards, a little bit like,

2255
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:27,000
oh yeah, he will help if he's on the floor,

2256
01:39:27,039 --> 01:39:29,159
like we're confident of that. It's just the role can't

2257
01:39:29,159 --> 01:39:31,560
be that big. And but then you can't be confident

2258
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,520
of the health. I think you have n't put positioned

2259
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:39,119
about right here just because I think Washington might value

2260
01:39:39,239 --> 01:39:40,600
keeping him because.

2261
01:39:40,319 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 1: He's the adult in the room. Would interrupt. It's a

2262
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:44,520
we don't make it look like you didn't have I

2263
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:45,520
gave you input on this.

2264
01:39:46,359 --> 01:39:50,000
Speaker 3: Sorry I did have input. You know we have him

2265
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:52,039
about right, But what do you think about that? What

2266
01:39:52,079 --> 01:39:54,680
about like we haven't had a lot of guys or

2267
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:57,000
really any as I'm looking back at the list, where

2268
01:39:57,119 --> 01:40:00,359
you could say his bad team might just just be

2269
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:03,560
okay with him hitting free agency because he's like the

2270
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:06,279
new Garrett Temple where we just want him here for the.

2271
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:10,680
Speaker 1: Washington though, you're saying you just want him here for

2272
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:11,680
the rest of the year, for the rest.

2273
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:14,159
Speaker 3: Of the year, because it's only getting uglier probably, or

2274
01:40:14,199 --> 01:40:16,319
it's gonna stay as ugly and you might just need

2275
01:40:16,359 --> 01:40:18,239
someone to keep things from, you know.

2276
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:20,359
Speaker 2: Turning to Lord of the Flies.

2277
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:23,600
Speaker 1: I just Washington relative to other rebuilding teams, they might

2278
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:25,920
have a good prospect well with their future picks. Dash

2279
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:28,760
isn't great that if you can get some seconds in there,

2280
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:30,039
I'm gonna move him.

2281
01:40:30,159 --> 01:40:31,039
Speaker 2: I would, I think so.

2282
01:40:31,199 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering if if that's just a factor I

2283
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:36,199
think from that's not It hasn't been discussed for a

2284
01:40:36,239 --> 01:40:37,439
lot of these veterans so far.

2285
01:40:38,079 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 1: I still think Orlando just needs to go out and

2286
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:40,800
get him.

2287
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:41,520
Speaker 2: I like that.

2288
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:44,239
Speaker 1: I like that that's your placeholder. We want them to

2289
01:40:44,239 --> 01:40:46,199
make a bigger trade. They won't do it. That's fine.

2290
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,720
He would be interesting with the Clippers, though, if you

2291
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:51,640
think he's healthy. I just don't man. Plus, Tucker feels

2292
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:53,840
a little rich, and I don't see the Wizards being like, well, okay,

2293
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:55,920
well here's some set. I just don't see them doing that.

2294
01:40:56,279 --> 01:40:58,399
Speaker 3: I think the Lakers too, if it's like you can

2295
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:00,880
have Gabe Vincent and something that's salary is tough because

2296
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:03,119
I don't know if you might like him more than Russell,

2297
01:41:03,199 --> 01:41:05,600
for example, just because you can trust him.

2298
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 1: Russell and Chaffino in a second for Brogden, you feel

2299
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:11,720
better about the Lakers after that train.

2300
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:14,359
Speaker 3: And Washington should do that, I think because you're you're

2301
01:41:14,399 --> 01:41:16,439
getting a pick and you're not taking on money and

2302
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:17,720
and yeah, I don't know, there it is.

2303
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:19,199
Speaker 2: We did it, brought them to the Lakers.

2304
01:41:19,239 --> 01:41:21,960
Speaker 1: What if it was well, no, because Russell plus Gavins,

2305
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:25,880
it's thirty million dollars, So you do Vincent and no,

2306
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:26,640
it'd be too much.

2307
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:28,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, that thing, it has to be Russell.

2308
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:29,880
Speaker 3: And then it's kind of like, I don't know, like

2309
01:41:30,119 --> 01:41:32,520
Brogden's not a good defender anymore so or not that

2310
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:33,239
he ever was great.

2311
01:41:33,279 --> 01:41:35,319
Speaker 1: But are you trying to say that Dangel Russell is

2312
01:41:35,359 --> 01:41:35,960
a good defender?

2313
01:41:36,039 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 2: No, I know, I'm saying, like, what are the ginnings?

2314
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,640
Speaker 3: Because offensively they're not that different in terms of bottom

2315
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:41,239
line production.

2316
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:43,960
Speaker 1: This is a controversial one. At nineteen. I think I

2317
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,000
put Cam Thomas here. He's going to be a restricted

2318
01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:49,800
free agent, did not agree to an extension with the

2319
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,840
Nets if you shouldn't know that injured as we record this, still,

2320
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:56,600
dude can be a bucket. I think he's improved as

2321
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:58,520
a three point Shooter a great deal. There has been

2322
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:02,159
incremental as a passer, but because he's not a good

2323
01:42:02,159 --> 01:42:04,560
pastor to begin with, I don't know how much that means.

2324
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:08,600
I don't know how when he's on a smaller contract,

2325
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:10,880
so you're not taking back bad money. For if you're Brooklyn,

2326
01:42:11,119 --> 01:42:13,920
You're essentially you're not getting back. No one's giving you

2327
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,279
a first for Cam Thomas. Maybe there's like a bigger

2328
01:42:16,319 --> 01:42:18,560
deal because his salary is so small, you attach him

2329
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:21,800
to Cam Johnson or Dorian Phinney Smith and get Honestly,

2330
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:24,439
now I'm thinking about it, if you wanted someone who

2331
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:27,279
could dribble more in Dallas, like you could get to

2332
01:42:27,279 --> 01:42:29,119
the money if you're giving up the first round pick

2333
01:42:29,159 --> 01:42:32,000
for Dorian Phinney Smith and Cam Thomas. But if Spencer

2334
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:34,279
didn't when he's playing so well, you probably don't see

2335
01:42:34,319 --> 01:42:36,319
the need for having Cam Thomas. But like that would

2336
01:42:36,359 --> 01:42:38,880
be the framework of getting a first for Cam Thomas.

2337
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:40,479
I think he has value. I'm probably a little bit

2338
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:43,520
higher on him than you are. I just he's so

2339
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:46,680
tough because he makes so little headed for restricted free agency,

2340
01:42:47,119 --> 01:42:49,920
and I don't this with I think it's more likely

2341
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:51,640
off Framelant this way that you get a first round

2342
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:54,520
pick for Jonathan kaminga than you would for Cam Thomas.

2343
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:55,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I agree with that.

2344
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:58,680
Speaker 3: I think I think too, Like for Thomas, he hasn't

2345
01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:01,119
really made anything money. He's made a lot of buckets,

2346
01:43:01,119 --> 01:43:03,680
he hasn't made money yet, and so restricted free agency,

2347
01:43:04,239 --> 01:43:08,800
you should assume if you're his acquiring team, like you're

2348
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,640
gonna have to just pay whatever the highest number. That

2349
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:14,399
that's is how offer sheets work, obviously, But like he's

2350
01:43:14,399 --> 01:43:16,439
gonna take the biggest deal. It's not like he's I

2351
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:19,079
would imagine, because he hasn't made like life changing NBA

2352
01:43:19,159 --> 01:43:19,680
money yet.

2353
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:22,159
Speaker 2: So like that's that's a factor to consider.

2354
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:27,800
Speaker 3: And yeah, like it just I don't it's weird like

2355
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:29,800
if he if it's a team that views him as

2356
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:32,239
a building block for some reason, it's like, well, that's

2357
01:43:32,279 --> 01:43:34,359
a lateral move, and so what are they giving up

2358
01:43:34,399 --> 01:43:36,640
to the nets? And if it's a winning team, like

2359
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:40,079
Thomas just hasn't proved he can be a piece of

2360
01:43:40,119 --> 01:43:43,199
a winning like his the bucket getting player type is

2361
01:43:43,239 --> 01:43:44,920
a weird fit in a lot of places. It's just

2362
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:48,319
like the market is, I don't know, not not exactly

2363
01:43:48,399 --> 01:43:50,359
like teaming for him, I don't think so that drives

2364
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:51,479
the price down too.

2365
01:43:51,159 --> 01:43:53,840
Speaker 1: I don't have a great destination for him. I mean,

2366
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:56,560
I I'll say, like the Clippers taking a flyer on

2367
01:43:56,600 --> 01:43:59,239
him would make sense, But I have no idea what

2368
01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:01,680
I might consider giving up Terrence Man for him. But

2369
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:04,039
now it's well other money coming out of Brooklyn for that,

2370
01:44:04,079 --> 01:44:06,199
and is Brooklyn taking that night.

2371
01:44:06,159 --> 01:44:08,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, but you know who to be consistent

2372
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:11,399
since I said Denver should just go. Denver needs like

2373
01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:14,960
a Lou Williams from two thousand and seven, like they have.

2374
01:44:15,399 --> 01:44:18,800
Speaker 1: Nothing, Like you want hunter Tyson plus Dari or Sharich.

2375
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah maybe, I don't know. Maybe you want hunter Tyson's

2376
01:44:23,039 --> 01:44:24,239
longer contract.

2377
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:26,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like you.

2378
01:44:26,960 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 1: Although because Brooklyn's a type of front office that would

2379
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:31,520
game it this way. If you were getting off of

2380
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:35,239
Sharage or Zeke Naugy as part of this, would you

2381
01:44:35,279 --> 01:44:38,880
give up a swap as Denver then you're to get well,

2382
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:40,000
I don't know.

2383
01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:42,920
Speaker 3: Maybe because because this is the guy that, like, maybe

2384
01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:45,880
you just don't lose this non Jokic minutes as bad

2385
01:44:46,039 --> 01:44:49,439
because he's out there creating shots by himself. Like I

2386
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:52,840
don't know, I just this is the player type that

2387
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:56,800
I think might be within Denver's budget to like address

2388
01:44:56,920 --> 01:45:00,119
the non Jokch minutes without screwing up the starting five.

2389
01:45:00,039 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 2: With the big trade. So like maybe you would throw

2390
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:04,079
a swap out there.

2391
01:45:04,359 --> 01:45:06,239
Speaker 1: Would you? So it would have to be who else

2392
01:45:06,279 --> 01:45:06,880
is on the net.

2393
01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:09,560
Speaker 3: You keep them, you keep the matching rights and restricted

2394
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:13,199
free agency, so you can you are in control of

2395
01:45:13,239 --> 01:45:15,239
if you keep him or not. That that's got to

2396
01:45:15,279 --> 01:45:17,359
have value to a team as inflexible as Denver is.

2397
01:45:18,239 --> 01:45:21,199
Speaker 1: Honestly, though, Denver could use Dayron Sharp too, and you

2398
01:45:21,239 --> 01:45:24,000
could do Zeke Nagy for day Ron Sharp and cam

2399
01:45:24,039 --> 01:45:28,359
Thomas if you gave up two swaps. Is that too much?

2400
01:45:28,600 --> 01:45:30,079
Speaker 2: I think Brooklyn does like too much.

2401
01:45:30,119 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about, not getting it done for

2402
01:45:33,039 --> 01:45:33,760
those two.

2403
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:36,960
Speaker 2: Probably not. I that's fascinating.

2404
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:39,600
Speaker 1: So if it would have to because that's like the

2405
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:42,560
only structure. No, you know, shake Milton all right, So

2406
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:45,560
you could do just because I Watford's too valuable. I

2407
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:47,359
mean even if a key on Johnson, so it would

2408
01:45:47,359 --> 01:45:49,640
be it won't be Jay on Wilson, he's too good.

2409
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:53,600
It'd be cam Thomas and then basically not Noah Clowney

2410
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:56,000
or day Run Sharp among or trendon Watford's let's say

2411
01:45:56,000 --> 01:45:58,079
shake Milton just is like the kind of throwaway shake.

2412
01:45:58,119 --> 01:46:00,199
Speaker 2: Milton, I really want a Dayron Sharp in this deal.

2413
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:03,560
I'm you won't do two swaps? Yeah they have.

2414
01:46:04,039 --> 01:46:06,239
Speaker 1: I don't think Denver would either, because they have homes.

2415
01:46:06,319 --> 01:46:08,279
I know he towards Achilles. I'm assuming there's a plan,

2416
01:46:09,079 --> 01:46:11,600
uh for like they want him. They're moving forward. So

2417
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:16,119
it's Cam Thomas and a small salary for a swap

2418
01:46:16,119 --> 01:46:18,359
from like a twenty thirty swap, But you have to

2419
01:46:18,359 --> 01:46:20,479
take back Zeke Nagy's money. Do you take the flyer

2420
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:22,199
on that? Just looking at Denver's future?

2421
01:46:23,119 --> 01:46:26,039
Speaker 3: I think I might if I really if I thought

2422
01:46:26,079 --> 01:46:28,760
like and I'm I don't know, I what do you

2423
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:29,319
think about it?

2424
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:32,960
Speaker 1: Do that? Because I think there's a stronger case to

2425
01:46:33,039 --> 01:46:34,720
be made that they should have to give up the

2426
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:38,079
second swap because you're getting off Nagy's money. Yeah, if

2427
01:46:38,119 --> 01:46:40,399
it was Dayron Sharp and Cam Thomas and two swaps,

2428
01:46:40,399 --> 01:46:42,399
I do it in a heartbeat. It's two swaps for

2429
01:46:42,439 --> 01:46:44,680
cam Thomas. I don't, I don't know.

2430
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:48,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you what about the general idea? And we

2431
01:46:48,359 --> 01:46:49,479
got to move on after this?

2432
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:52,840
Speaker 3: But like the thought that just go get a microwave

2433
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:56,840
score to run second units without Jokiz, Like, is is

2434
01:46:56,880 --> 01:46:59,640
he someone that could actually do that effectively enough to

2435
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:01,600
be worth giving up a swap for?

2436
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:05,840
Speaker 2: Yes, well, because you can't.

2437
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:07,960
Speaker 3: You're not closing with him, like I don't think ever.

2438
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:11,279
But he's just he has a very specific use for

2439
01:47:11,359 --> 01:47:11,800
that team.

2440
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 1: Don't say that Jamal Murray has been prone to missing time,

2441
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:16,039
so you.

2442
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,439
Speaker 2: Don't want you don't want to close with him, is

2443
01:47:18,439 --> 01:47:19,119
what I should say.

2444
01:47:19,359 --> 01:47:21,880
Speaker 1: I mean is that the goal of what Denver should

2445
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:23,800
be doing is finding someone that they want to close

2446
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:25,920
with it like they're starting five is I'm fine with

2447
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:27,520
it and you have Peyton Wattson to pull that.

2448
01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:29,720
Speaker 3: No, I know, I'm just saying normally, if you're giving

2449
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:31,760
up a first round asset, even if it's a swap,

2450
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:33,840
you're like, you're not just going with we need a

2451
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:36,279
guy to play seventeen minutes a game without our best

2452
01:47:36,279 --> 01:47:37,119
player on the floor.

2453
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 1: So when when Cam Thomas went down, the Brooklyn Nets

2454
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:45,960
were eighth in half court offensive rating, and he made

2455
01:47:46,039 --> 01:47:49,760
their overall offense better by five point two points per

2456
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:52,039
one hundred possessions and their half court offense better by

2457
01:47:52,079 --> 01:47:54,640
five point nine points per hundred possesions. So I'm gonna

2458
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:57,520
say yes that I think he can give you. I

2459
01:47:57,560 --> 01:47:59,000
don't know. I don't think you're gonna win the non

2460
01:47:59,079 --> 01:48:01,399
yo kitch minutes, but I think he could help float

2461
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:03,479
in off it. I think it would get easier to

2462
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:06,000
game lineups without Jokic, to have some sort of an

2463
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:09,199
identity that's not just like defensively skewed.

2464
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and really like, now that I'm I'm talking about

2465
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:15,960
it more, is it the worst thing to have, like

2466
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:18,319
a just a pure go get your own to play

2467
01:48:18,359 --> 01:48:21,079
with Jokic. It's not like Jokic wants to be I

2468
01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:22,239
don't know.

2469
01:48:23,199 --> 01:48:25,119
Speaker 1: How many minutes is he spending with Yokic too?

2470
01:48:25,199 --> 01:48:28,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, not a lot, not a lot. Okay, Denver should

2471
01:48:28,319 --> 01:48:29,760
do it both swaps, do it?

2472
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:32,239
Speaker 1: But and so, But if you're Brooklyn, do you do

2473
01:48:32,279 --> 01:48:34,680
the two swaps for Dayron Sharp and cam Thomas for

2474
01:48:34,760 --> 01:48:36,119
zik Nauji or is that not enough?

2475
01:48:36,239 --> 01:48:37,279
Speaker 2: I think I probably do it.

2476
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:39,359
Speaker 1: I think I'd probably do it too. I'm like, I'm

2477
01:48:39,359 --> 01:48:41,600
gonna short the shit out of Denver's just based off

2478
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:43,520
with some of the decisions that they've made so far.

2479
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:46,880
But it's questionable let us know if we're just off

2480
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:48,880
our rails and it's not like both sides would do it.

2481
01:48:49,319 --> 01:48:51,680
I find that interesting though. Next up, when we have

2482
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:52,479
mister Hughes.

2483
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:57,760
Speaker 3: This is mister Kelton Johnson kind of like someone still

2484
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:01,279
that it's always weird to me that the SPS just,

2485
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:03,760
you know, he doesn't feel like he's a highly valued

2486
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,960
piece there, even though when he signed that contract, which

2487
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:07,720
has two years and thirty five million left, we're like,

2488
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:09,279
it's good money for Kelvin Johnson.

2489
01:49:09,319 --> 01:49:11,600
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna age. Well, doesn't seem like it.

2490
01:49:11,680 --> 01:49:15,039
Speaker 3: Averaging twelve game this year hasn't started anymore that that

2491
01:49:15,079 --> 01:49:18,319
ship selt last year basically under thirty percent from three

2492
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:21,920
still just he's aged twenty five season like has had

2493
01:49:21,960 --> 01:49:26,199
flashes of being a good corner, three point shooter, good

2494
01:49:26,319 --> 01:49:30,439
enough athlete, plays physically like it's just I don't think

2495
01:49:31,079 --> 01:49:33,359
I think he's in the right spot, just because I

2496
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:36,840
don't view him as someone Teams will say, well that

2497
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:40,439
that's nothing close, like we're not giving up want we

2498
01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:42,359
want Kelvin Johnson will give up a first or we'll

2499
01:49:42,359 --> 01:49:45,119
give up Like it just doesn't feel like he's all

2500
01:49:45,119 --> 01:49:47,760
that likely to be traded because I think the Spurs

2501
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:49,840
can handle a contract that's a little inflated, and I

2502
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:51,840
don't see teams like knocking the door down for him.

2503
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would just be curious because they have the

2504
01:49:53,960 --> 01:49:56,880
way that Julian Champanne's played. Devin Missel is back, and

2505
01:49:56,920 --> 01:50:00,359
if you are still invested in Jeremy Sohan, like how

2506
01:50:00,359 --> 01:50:02,760
committed are you to him being long term? I would

2507
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:05,399
be curious to see what teams would give up for him.

2508
01:50:05,399 --> 01:50:07,279
But I think that he's you mentioned the word is

2509
01:50:07,359 --> 01:50:11,479
flashes like they've always been maybe some extended flickers and flashes,

2510
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:13,039
but it's never sort of maintained. And I think the

2511
01:50:13,079 --> 01:50:16,439
big swing skill that's never developed fully for him is

2512
01:50:16,479 --> 01:50:18,680
you don't look at him and say, I know this

2513
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:21,279
guy will knock down threes. Yeah, he's just not there.

2514
01:50:21,279 --> 01:50:23,279
He's at thirty seven percent I think, on wide open

2515
01:50:23,279 --> 01:50:25,439
threes this year, which is just not good enough.

2516
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:29,239
Speaker 3: So and really we're talking about one year of that

2517
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:31,880
twenty one to twenty two when he hit thirty nine

2518
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,039
percent of his threes.

2519
01:50:33,319 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 2: That's just clearly the outlier at this point. And also

2520
01:50:37,119 --> 01:50:39,359
he averaged twenty two a game two years ago. He's

2521
01:50:39,399 --> 01:50:41,880
got to be if you onted the list of like

2522
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,520
the most like no way he averaged twenty two A

2523
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:46,560
game players. He's way up there on it.

2524
01:50:46,600 --> 01:50:49,159
Speaker 3: But it's just been that he's kind of had a

2525
01:50:49,239 --> 01:50:51,640
Jaron jacksony career where like one skill shows up and

2526
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:53,520
then it goes away, and another one shows up the

2527
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:56,199
following year and that goes away, and not really none

2528
01:50:56,239 --> 01:50:58,319
of them have showed up this year, which is why

2529
01:50:58,359 --> 01:50:59,000
he is where he.

2530
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 1: Is, number twenty on towards the end, we have mister

2531
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:04,600
Jordan Clarkson. I don't know how to feel about him.

2532
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:07,239
I'm not gonna lie. He's just he's not my favorite

2533
01:51:07,319 --> 01:51:10,439
archetype of player. I thought last year he showed way

2534
01:51:10,479 --> 01:51:13,840
more as a playmaker than we've kind of seen. Efficiency

2535
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:16,079
has been all over the place this season. But if

2536
01:51:16,079 --> 01:51:17,840
you're looking for someone who, I mean, this is another

2537
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,560
name that'll be mentioned for a Denver team or any

2538
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:23,840
squad that's looking to just hey, can we float some

2539
01:51:23,960 --> 01:51:26,600
offense here. He's got one year fourteen point three million

2540
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:28,920
dollars left on his contract that aligns almost perfectly, by

2541
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:31,439
the way, with next year's mid level exception, which is

2542
01:51:31,479 --> 01:51:34,640
at fourteen point one million. I think you could probably

2543
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:37,399
envision him being more efficient on a team where he's

2544
01:51:37,399 --> 01:51:42,119
not gonna see as much defensive attention. But just like

2545
01:51:42,279 --> 01:51:44,720
it is concerning that, all right, this dude is thirty two.

2546
01:51:45,159 --> 01:51:47,079
He's at forty seven point seven percent from two to

2547
01:51:47,119 --> 01:51:49,159
thirty one point six percent from three, which is actually

2548
01:51:49,239 --> 01:51:52,680
higher than last year. I just key to me is

2549
01:51:52,680 --> 01:51:56,439
the he's probably better. Maybe I'm not crediting his playmaking enough,

2550
01:51:56,439 --> 01:51:59,199
but this is like the quintessential off guard who's not

2551
01:51:59,199 --> 01:52:01,000
gonna give you enough on defense, and maybe he might

2552
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:02,920
not be efficient enough on offense to do what you

2553
01:52:02,960 --> 01:52:03,600
want him to do.

2554
01:52:03,960 --> 01:52:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the sixth man, quietly, the sixth man

2555
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:10,199
of the year contingent stuff is like three full seasons ago,

2556
01:52:10,439 --> 01:52:13,479
and so for a player like that, I just I

2557
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:15,680
do think you're right that on a better team, I

2558
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:19,560
think he just has more utility with more talent around him,

2559
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:22,000
more players to draw defensive attention away from him, and

2560
01:52:22,039 --> 01:52:24,039
what he does well, which is get his own stuff.

2561
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:30,279
It's just yeah, he's he's seconds second. Maybe, like I

2562
01:52:30,279 --> 01:52:32,680
feel like in terms of a return package at this point.

2563
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:35,479
Speaker 1: Next up we have This was tough for me, Kevin

2564
01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:39,039
Herder if he didn't have the shoulder injury because he's

2565
01:52:39,039 --> 01:52:40,640
a year and eighteen million left in his contract. And

2566
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:42,640
I apologize for hijacking your guy. I'll let you take

2567
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:45,239
the next one. I would probably value him way more

2568
01:52:45,319 --> 01:52:48,039
than other people do. But he's dealing with like repeated

2569
01:52:48,079 --> 01:52:50,760
shoulder stuff right now, and so that's a concern. He

2570
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:54,039
didn't start he started the year like Gangbusters, including on defense,

2571
01:52:54,239 --> 01:52:57,279
faded off, they changed his role, started getting efficihent again,

2572
01:52:57,359 --> 01:52:59,800
then gets hurt, So that has to be the concern here.

2573
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:02,640
But to me, there's a case to be made that

2574
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:04,680
he belongs higher than twenty two. Yeah.

2575
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:06,119
Speaker 3: No, there's a case to be made just because the

2576
01:53:06,199 --> 01:53:08,720
level he's hit, if you assume it's injury, and if

2577
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:10,920
you assume that injury is something he.

2578
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:13,279
Speaker 2: Can get past, that's driven down production over the last

2579
01:53:13,279 --> 01:53:13,760
couple of years.

2580
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 3: Like it's not that I guess maybe like what his

2581
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:19,079
first year with the Kings and really the last couple

2582
01:53:19,119 --> 01:53:21,600
with the Hawks where it was he's not he's a

2583
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:24,399
great movement shooter, but also like you can run pick

2584
01:53:24,439 --> 01:53:26,680
and rolls with him and he's this is age twenty

2585
01:53:26,680 --> 01:53:29,960
six season, So like I do think you would be

2586
01:53:30,079 --> 01:53:32,880
justified as a team that thought it is injury.

2587
01:53:32,920 --> 01:53:33,920
Speaker 2: He can't get past it.

2588
01:53:34,039 --> 01:53:37,199
Speaker 3: He's valuable enough for like real like a couple seconds

2589
01:53:37,319 --> 01:53:40,640
or like a fake first or whatever. It just like

2590
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:43,720
it's scary though, because he is like a guy that

2591
01:53:44,039 --> 01:53:47,560
is really offense offense mostly slash offense only, and he's

2592
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:49,880
just not shooting it well. And so it could be

2593
01:53:49,960 --> 01:53:52,800
like a zero value guy. But the upside is there

2594
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:55,399
if you can talk your way around like the reason

2595
01:53:55,479 --> 01:53:58,039
or if you can talk yourself into the decline being

2596
01:53:58,399 --> 01:54:01,239
the shoulder that that he's you know, give it another

2597
01:54:01,319 --> 01:54:02,840
year and he's back to being what he was.

2598
01:54:04,399 --> 01:54:06,520
Speaker 1: What I also struggle with too, is that he seems

2599
01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:08,640
like the money that Kings would want to attach something

2600
01:54:08,680 --> 01:54:10,520
to is part of a bigger deal. Do you think

2601
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:13,520
if someone came calling at this point, let's just say

2602
01:54:14,439 --> 01:54:17,239
the Raptors have some expirings where it's like Bruce Brown

2603
01:54:17,720 --> 01:54:21,520
for Kevin Herder, Basically, are you considering doing that if

2604
01:54:21,520 --> 01:54:23,479
you're Sacramento, I mean, Bruce Brow might actually help them.

2605
01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:25,359
So even if it's a I mean Kelly Olynok and

2606
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:28,520
Chris Bouchet, that like, is that is that type of

2607
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:30,479
deal you're considering where it's oh, we're getting out from

2608
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:33,039
under that final year of his contract, or do you

2609
01:54:33,119 --> 01:54:34,800
view it as no, we'd rather take the swing on

2610
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:37,680
what he could do. Plus we want tradable salary moving

2611
01:54:37,680 --> 01:54:41,119
forward rather than can we sign Bruce Brown to a

2612
01:54:41,159 --> 01:54:42,960
deal where he still has trade value.

2613
01:54:43,039 --> 01:54:45,479
Speaker 3: I kind of think Sacramento is such an interesting case

2614
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:48,119
because you and I think you probably lean this way

2615
01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:49,680
and I don't. I'm not saying you're wrong, Like they

2616
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,520
need a big upgrade like a star so, but I

2617
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:55,760
also think like the lineups that use most work and

2618
01:54:55,840 --> 01:54:57,359
if you could turn her if you could do a

2619
01:54:57,399 --> 01:54:59,319
two for one and you get two guys back, that

2620
01:54:59,359 --> 01:55:02,000
can be in your owation for Herder, whatever the longer

2621
01:55:02,079 --> 01:55:04,199
term money situation is, Like, that kind of makes sense

2622
01:55:04,239 --> 01:55:05,359
for what they need.

2623
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:09,159
Speaker 2: So what was your bouchet and olynic or something like?

2624
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:11,319
Speaker 3: I think you can make the argument that just makes

2625
01:55:11,319 --> 01:55:14,199
the Kings better because they just need especially a big

2626
01:55:14,239 --> 01:55:16,239
guys that they just they just need bodies that they

2627
01:55:16,239 --> 01:55:19,119
can put out there. That like Isaac Jones has played

2628
01:55:19,159 --> 01:55:21,159
real minutes for the Kings this year, and that's just

2629
01:55:21,199 --> 01:55:26,560
like that, the Joneses. So I think I think if

2630
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:29,199
you could turn Herder into two rota into the rotation. Guys,

2631
01:55:29,239 --> 01:55:30,760
I think you probably should do that.

2632
01:55:31,399 --> 01:55:33,079
Speaker 1: I do feel like there are also just teams that

2633
01:55:33,119 --> 01:55:36,000
if your offense isn't good, it's like he will get

2634
01:55:36,039 --> 01:55:38,800
the three pointers up, and so taking a fire on

2635
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:40,880
him would make sense. He's also still young enough to where,

2636
01:55:41,279 --> 01:55:43,640
let's just say, if New Orleans really wanted him, I

2637
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:46,000
don't know why Sacramento is gonna come take CJ. McCollum

2638
01:55:46,079 --> 01:55:48,439
off your hands now that they want Zion or Ingram.

2639
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:51,920
There was like that, like you could talk. The scope

2640
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:54,439
of teams that could be interested in actually getting him

2641
01:55:54,439 --> 01:55:56,319
and using him, I think is probably wider than some

2642
01:55:56,359 --> 01:55:57,880
of the other players on this list.

2643
01:55:58,079 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair.

2644
01:55:59,079 --> 01:56:00,840
Speaker 1: You want to ta oh speak. We already mentioned this guy,

2645
01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:02,720
you want to take him? Since I stole Ken heard

2646
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:03,079
her from you.

2647
01:56:03,319 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 3: This is the everybody's favorite north of the border cowboy.

2648
01:56:06,520 --> 01:56:10,399
Bruce Brown kind of like forgotten this year and has

2649
01:56:10,439 --> 01:56:13,600
been discussed a lot as a trade candidate. He will

2650
01:56:13,640 --> 01:56:18,000
be an unrestricted free agent after this season. The idea

2651
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:20,840
of Bruce Brown still has a lot of fits everywhere.

2652
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:24,319
I just, you know, I think maybe that Denver season

2653
01:56:24,399 --> 01:56:26,359
is doing a lot of the lifting and.

2654
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,119
Speaker 2: It's harder to gauge his true value at this point.

2655
01:56:30,239 --> 01:56:32,319
Maybe I do think.

2656
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:36,560
Speaker 3: Going into free agency for him it might be less

2657
01:56:36,600 --> 01:56:38,479
of a deterrent than it is for other players because

2658
01:56:38,479 --> 01:56:41,119
I think he's he would just be like a rental type, right.

2659
01:56:41,279 --> 01:56:43,520
I think that's that's how teams would view him, as

2660
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:47,039
like your our eighth guy now, and we trust that

2661
01:56:47,119 --> 01:56:49,239
maybe you can get back to what you were in

2662
01:56:49,279 --> 01:56:50,800
your best years a couple of years ago.

2663
01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:52,079
Speaker 2: Like I don't.

2664
01:56:52,119 --> 01:56:56,239
Speaker 3: I don't think Toronto is getting like an asset that

2665
01:56:56,279 --> 01:56:58,399
it's like coveting for him, it's just kind of some

2666
01:56:59,119 --> 01:57:00,000
swapping out money.

2667
01:57:00,079 --> 01:57:02,399
Speaker 1: Maybe I thought, I don't know what he's gonna look

2668
01:57:02,439 --> 01:57:04,079
like after the knee surgery. We haven't seen him yet

2669
01:57:04,079 --> 01:57:05,479
this season, but like if you knew he was gonna

2670
01:57:05,479 --> 01:57:07,079
play and we had an idea of what he looked like,

2671
01:57:07,119 --> 01:57:09,880
he's still kind of this good connector on both ends.

2672
01:57:09,920 --> 01:57:11,720
I think the real value with him, which is why

2673
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:14,079
he could maybe even be higher, is you might get

2674
01:57:14,079 --> 01:57:17,239
a first round pick, if only because his expiring money

2675
01:57:17,279 --> 01:57:19,680
is so big, Like there's a lot of different scenarios

2676
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:21,479
that opens up if teams are looking to get off

2677
01:57:21,520 --> 01:57:22,000
of money.

2678
01:57:22,359 --> 01:57:24,079
Speaker 2: What's it? What's his salary this year? Is it like

2679
01:57:24,119 --> 01:57:24,720
twenty one?

2680
01:57:25,279 --> 01:57:28,359
Speaker 1: I think it's twenty two and a half. No, that

2681
01:57:28,439 --> 01:57:31,039
was Malcolm Brogden. He's at twenty three.

2682
01:57:31,079 --> 01:57:34,159
Speaker 3: Okay, twenty yeah, yeah, maybe maybe if you take back

2683
01:57:34,199 --> 01:57:36,399
bad money, that's yeah, that would be the way to

2684
01:57:36,399 --> 01:57:39,640
frame it. Ideally from Toronto's perspective is we'll take We'll

2685
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:41,359
take like three, I don't know who's the guy that's

2686
01:57:41,439 --> 01:57:44,800
making that number or more for a couple more years,

2687
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:46,079
like just straight up Jeremy Grant.

2688
01:57:46,119 --> 01:57:48,359
Speaker 2: Then we'll take We'll take picks or something.

2689
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:52,159
Speaker 3: Portland's Portland's too bad to be uh, given up picks obviously,

2690
01:57:52,239 --> 01:57:54,119
but yeah, that's a good way to think about it.

2691
01:57:54,119 --> 01:57:57,760
Speaker 1: For the Raptors checking in at number twenty four, didn't

2692
01:57:57,760 --> 01:57:59,279
know what to do with him. Lonzo Ball, it's fun

2693
01:57:59,279 --> 01:58:02,039
to see him play bad basketball again. Can still be

2694
01:58:02,159 --> 01:58:05,079
a fun passer and he's done like he's had some

2695
01:58:05,199 --> 01:58:09,199
moments on defense, just taking a flyer on someone who

2696
01:58:09,279 --> 01:58:11,880
is I don't know how many minutes. He's like kind

2697
01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:13,840
of in the realm of a Jonathan Isaac or even

2698
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:15,520
a Robert Williams, where it's he's just gonna be on

2699
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:18,159
a minutes cap the rest of his career could be.

2700
01:58:18,279 --> 01:58:22,439
He's coming back from basically unprecedented surgery, but he's twenty

2701
01:58:22,439 --> 01:58:26,279
seven twenty one point four million. I don't I mean again,

2702
01:58:26,319 --> 01:58:27,840
we can get into the Bruce Brown discussion. If you

2703
01:58:27,880 --> 01:58:29,560
get a first round pick for taking back bad money.

2704
01:58:29,800 --> 01:58:31,960
I'd give up two seconds just to take a flyer

2705
01:58:31,960 --> 01:58:33,880
on Lonzo Ball, have his bird rights and see if

2706
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:35,680
he can help my team. Like, that's someone who might

2707
01:58:35,720 --> 01:58:37,079
be able to help your team at both ends of

2708
01:58:37,079 --> 01:58:37,479
the floor.

2709
01:58:38,600 --> 01:58:39,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

2710
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,079
Speaker 3: I think I think the most likely and an ideal

2711
01:58:42,119 --> 01:58:44,399
scenario from the bull's perspective is we'll take your bad

2712
01:58:44,439 --> 01:58:46,760
money with if we can get a first for it.

2713
01:58:48,039 --> 01:58:49,920
Speaker 1: If you were Houston, you wouldn't be like, hey, here

2714
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:52,479
are two of our like big men that are making

2715
01:58:52,800 --> 01:58:54,720
like a Jock Landau and Jeff Green, and we'll just

2716
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:57,159
give you a second to Forlanda. You wouldn't even consider that.

2717
01:58:57,640 --> 01:58:58,199
I would.

2718
01:58:58,319 --> 01:59:00,640
Speaker 3: I would be confident if I was here that I

2719
01:59:00,680 --> 01:59:03,439
could sell him in free agency on like of the

2720
01:59:03,479 --> 01:59:04,920
minimum offers available to you.

2721
01:59:04,960 --> 01:59:05,680
Speaker 2: Here's why we.

2722
01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 3: Make the most sense as opposed to giving up seconds. Probably, Yeah,

2723
01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:11,720
I think I think I could give up a second.

2724
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:14,439
Or if you're Charlotte and you're like, we are committed

2725
01:59:14,479 --> 01:59:16,840
to LaMelo, let's get Lonzo in here, we would give

2726
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:19,199
up something for that just to have have him be

2727
01:59:19,319 --> 01:59:23,279
the better than the Nasis. But the thenosis force in

2728
01:59:23,319 --> 01:59:26,479
our organization, we're not hit on now.

2729
01:59:26,479 --> 01:59:28,079
Speaker 1: They have enough guards. Let's just move on now. So

2730
01:59:28,319 --> 01:59:30,359
you even I would still I would take the flyer.

2731
01:59:30,399 --> 01:59:32,479
I'm on, so I'm there. Who we got next, mister Hughes.

2732
01:59:32,760 --> 01:59:35,199
Speaker 3: We have Larry Nance Junior, who I think is like,

2733
01:59:35,279 --> 01:59:36,520
oh yeah, he's on the Hawks.

2734
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:39,720
Speaker 2: He's like, isn't he.

2735
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:43,560
Speaker 3: The the budget answer to like a lot of teams,

2736
01:59:43,600 --> 01:59:46,119
Like we just need a guy we can play at

2737
01:59:46,159 --> 01:59:49,239
the five for ten minutes that can give us stuff

2738
01:59:49,239 --> 01:59:51,720
on both ends. I feel like he should have broader

2739
01:59:51,760 --> 01:59:53,960
appeal than he does, but I think he's kind of

2740
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:55,960
being viewed more as like salary to throw in than

2741
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:57,960
anything else at this point. I like, what do the

2742
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:00,279
Hawks realistically hope they can get for him?

2743
02:00:02,039 --> 02:00:04,479
Speaker 1: A second? Two seconds would be the max, I would think.

2744
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 3: I think it's like one, and like, what's he's expiring right?

2745
02:00:10,039 --> 02:00:13,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's expiring at like eleven million it's eleven something.

2746
02:00:14,359 --> 02:00:15,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

2747
02:00:15,479 --> 02:00:18,760
Speaker 3: I think I think you could get a second and

2748
02:00:18,760 --> 02:00:20,239
and that'd be about it.

2749
02:00:20,279 --> 02:00:24,159
Speaker 1: Probably I might consider giving up two seconds for him.

2750
02:00:24,159 --> 02:00:26,520
I'm not gonna lie. He's an injury risk, but you're

2751
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:29,399
gonna have his bird rights. He's only so he's appearing

2752
02:00:29,399 --> 02:00:32,359
in eleven games this season, but he's shooting sixty percent

2753
02:00:32,439 --> 02:00:34,960
on three three point attempts per game. That's not bad.

2754
02:00:35,279 --> 02:00:37,039
I would give up two seconds for lander intertry. I

2755
02:00:37,039 --> 02:00:38,119
think you're selling them a little.

2756
02:00:37,880 --> 02:00:41,239
Speaker 2: Short here, all right, deal, where's he going?

2757
02:00:41,720 --> 02:00:44,960
Speaker 1: Warriors number twenty six we have. I don't know what

2758
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:47,479
to do with him. Daniel Russell like, his value to

2759
02:00:47,560 --> 02:00:49,479
me still is more so rooted in the fact that

2760
02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:53,520
he's this expiring contract and you could do some creative

2761
02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:55,760
things with him, like if you're a team looking to

2762
02:00:55,800 --> 02:00:58,520
get off money, or even if you're just a seller.

2763
02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:00,920
Let's say, let's just even say the Heat and you're

2764
02:01:00,920 --> 02:01:03,600
trading Jimmy Butler to the Lakers, that there's just this

2765
02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:06,680
eighteen point seven million dollar expiring salary coming back in

2766
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:09,800
who will also be able to play for you upon arrival.

2767
02:01:10,319 --> 02:01:13,119
That's where his value is. I don't think I would

2768
02:01:13,119 --> 02:01:15,479
be curious that the Lakers would just trade him though,

2769
02:01:15,560 --> 02:01:16,920
like if there was a team where it's kind of

2770
02:01:17,119 --> 02:01:19,039
like we even mentioned with the John Collins the fact

2771
02:01:19,039 --> 02:01:20,920
that because you don't have a ton of other playmakers

2772
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:23,840
on the team, would you consider something like if you're

2773
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:25,840
the Lakers to move him like that, or you're only

2774
02:01:25,880 --> 02:01:27,560
moving him as part of a larger deal.

2775
02:01:27,840 --> 02:01:30,000
Speaker 3: I think it's most likely he's part of a larger

2776
02:01:30,039 --> 02:01:33,600
deal because I just don't I don't know what the

2777
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:38,079
sense would be in trading him singularly, Like what's coming

2778
02:01:38,159 --> 02:01:39,079
back in that.

2779
02:01:39,840 --> 02:01:41,319
Speaker 1: To trade in future? If I'm not thinking about, hey,

2780
02:01:41,359 --> 02:01:43,239
long term money, what is I know you don't own

2781
02:01:43,239 --> 02:01:45,640
your pick this season, but what is this season if

2782
02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:47,680
if you're getting a player you're gonna use to Like

2783
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:50,600
if it's for John Collins, I'm giving up D'Angelo Russell

2784
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:52,960
and I'll figure out what the offense looks like later.

2785
02:01:53,199 --> 02:01:55,640
And it's also it's not like D'angela Russell's a starter

2786
02:01:55,800 --> 02:01:57,199
for them anyway, that's true.

2787
02:01:57,359 --> 02:02:00,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think like if Colin's being the example,

2788
02:02:00,600 --> 02:02:03,439
that's someone that maybe you can trade for more for

2789
02:02:03,479 --> 02:02:06,199
the following season potentially, But yeah, like he just it's

2790
02:02:06,239 --> 02:02:08,960
an offense only player that's not playing offense well anymore.

2791
02:02:09,039 --> 02:02:11,920
So like, I don't, I don't know what you do

2792
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:13,720
with him. He could be better on another team. I

2793
02:02:13,760 --> 02:02:16,079
think it's got to be. I want to I want

2794
02:02:16,079 --> 02:02:18,680
to make the Danzel Russell case for thirty seconds, which

2795
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:20,840
is just to say, like he signed that last contract

2796
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:23,279
knowing like you're here to be traded and to play

2797
02:02:23,319 --> 02:02:27,239
for two years on under those circus sacks not fun

2798
02:02:27,359 --> 02:02:28,520
would not want that.

2799
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:30,079
Speaker 1: Who got at number twenty seven?

2800
02:02:30,359 --> 02:02:34,119
Speaker 3: This is CJ McCollum, who we're just talking about. Ability

2801
02:02:34,399 --> 02:02:38,199
is like I don't know, twenty spots too low maybe

2802
02:02:38,800 --> 02:02:41,359
or something in the neighborhood there. But it's just thirty

2803
02:02:41,359 --> 02:02:44,680
plus million this year, thirty plus next year. Is at

2804
02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:46,439
an age where it's like he ain't getting better and

2805
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:51,159
the defense isn't there. So I just I don't know

2806
02:02:51,680 --> 02:02:53,960
if the if the Pelicans could have traded him for

2807
02:02:54,039 --> 02:02:56,560
anything of value, that would have happened by now right.

2808
02:02:56,680 --> 02:02:59,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, I don't know. They seemed like

2809
02:02:59,159 --> 02:03:02,439
divorced from real at times, so maybe, but if you're

2810
02:03:02,479 --> 02:03:04,920
getting back expiring money in a second, you're trading CJ.

2811
02:03:05,079 --> 02:03:06,600
Speaker 2: McCollum yeah, I think so.

2812
02:03:07,439 --> 02:03:09,079
Speaker 1: I think he's really good. It's the money that this

2813
02:03:09,199 --> 02:03:11,479
is why he's so low. Well, I shouldn't say really good.

2814
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:13,680
He hasn't looked necessarily great this year, but I think

2815
02:03:13,720 --> 02:03:15,840
that he can. Like he is someone I think you

2816
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:18,199
could acquire and he might play for you during the

2817
02:03:18,199 --> 02:03:19,600
postseason and that matters.

2818
02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:22,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, if he were making fifteen million, you'd have him

2819
02:03:22,399 --> 02:03:25,079
like you'd you'd definitely want him over the Clarksons and

2820
02:03:25,119 --> 02:03:27,520
Sextons and maybe even Simons of the world.

2821
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:29,399
Speaker 2: But that's just it. It's a little bit of the

2822
02:03:29,479 --> 02:03:31,039
Jeremy Grant thing in here too.

2823
02:03:31,279 --> 02:03:34,399
Speaker 1: Coming in at number twenty eight, we have Cody Martin.

2824
02:03:34,680 --> 02:03:36,319
Of course it's Cody Martin. I just we're at the

2825
02:03:36,319 --> 02:03:38,079
point where it's he hasn't necessarily been rumored, but we

2826
02:03:38,119 --> 02:03:42,479
know he'd be moved. That's just someone who he's showed

2827
02:03:42,560 --> 02:03:46,079
a lot of difficult assignments this year. Defensively, he's showed

2828
02:03:46,159 --> 02:03:48,199
a lot of defensives Simons. Defensively, Grant, how does that?

2829
02:03:48,199 --> 02:03:49,560
How's that for some verbiage on.

2830
02:03:49,560 --> 02:03:50,640
Speaker 2: His shoulders, he shouldered.

2831
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:53,920
Speaker 1: He's versatile and effective when he's healthy on defense. The

2832
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:55,119
best way for me to phrase it. He could be

2833
02:03:55,159 --> 02:03:57,600
a connective passer. On offense, he can get going downhill

2834
02:03:57,840 --> 02:03:59,920
when he's hitting his threes, which this year he's been

2835
02:04:00,239 --> 02:04:02,119
up and down again from there. But I think if

2836
02:04:02,119 --> 02:04:04,239
you can see him up for wide open looks, he's

2837
02:04:04,239 --> 02:04:06,319
at least someone where you say, okay, like he could

2838
02:04:06,319 --> 02:04:08,880
probably shoot like thirty six or thirty seven percent on

2839
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:12,039
those looks specifically, And what is he shooting on wide

2840
02:04:12,039 --> 02:04:14,880
open threes? This year? He's at thirty five point six percent,

2841
02:04:14,920 --> 02:04:18,000
So look, I was close, I would absolutely. I think

2842
02:04:18,039 --> 02:04:20,560
he can help a playoff rotation. I think teams that

2843
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:22,439
need any sort of like kind of wing or perimeter

2844
02:04:22,520 --> 02:04:25,680
defender in particular should be looking at him. His salary

2845
02:04:25,680 --> 02:04:28,960
for next season's eight point seven million, and it's non guaranteed,

2846
02:04:29,199 --> 02:04:31,720
and it doesn't guarantee until June thirtieth. I think if

2847
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:33,680
you're Charlotte, you could probably get two seconds for him

2848
02:04:33,720 --> 02:04:37,079
at this point, and I would just take it. I think, look,

2849
02:04:37,239 --> 02:04:38,720
we know how I feel about we know how most

2850
02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:40,920
of the people in our discord feel about Cody Martin.

2851
02:04:40,960 --> 02:04:43,319
But I'd probably have him higher up on this list.

2852
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:43,800
Speaker 2: He has.

2853
02:04:43,880 --> 02:04:48,159
Speaker 3: He has a small but vocal following at the cult

2854
02:04:48,239 --> 02:04:51,239
level following. Also, like on the Twin theory, if you've

2855
02:04:51,279 --> 02:04:53,439
seen Caleb Martin be a really good player in a

2856
02:04:53,479 --> 02:04:55,920
postseason series, you should just assume that Cody could do

2857
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:56,600
it if he got there.

2858
02:04:56,840 --> 02:04:59,720
Speaker 1: Now that works, right? Yeah, Number twenty nine grand who

2859
02:04:59,760 --> 02:04:59,880
is it?

2860
02:05:00,479 --> 02:05:02,880
Speaker 2: Jonasvalanciunis signed to be traded? Uh?

2861
02:05:03,199 --> 02:05:05,880
Speaker 3: That was the only thing anyone ever said when he

2862
02:05:06,039 --> 02:05:08,760
ended up in Washington. He's got two more years and

2863
02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:12,159
twenty million total left on his deal. Lakers make a

2864
02:05:12,199 --> 02:05:13,720
lot of sense if you're just you just need a

2865
02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:17,000
big body so Ad can play the four. Still is

2866
02:05:17,039 --> 02:05:18,760
someone you can just throw it into and he's gonna

2867
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:19,920
be a physical post presence.

2868
02:05:19,920 --> 02:05:20,880
Speaker 2: He's gonna take up space.

2869
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:24,119
Speaker 3: He's not a good defensive player really, but just I

2870
02:05:24,119 --> 02:05:27,159
think kind of just a safe like you know exactly

2871
02:05:27,199 --> 02:05:30,600
what you're getting with him, and that has some utility.

2872
02:05:30,720 --> 02:05:34,520
I think he still is just like he's you're not

2873
02:05:34,560 --> 02:05:37,239
getting firsts, you're not getting young players, You're it's just

2874
02:05:37,399 --> 02:05:40,239
well if you can take back it, certainly from Washington's perspective,

2875
02:05:40,279 --> 02:05:42,760
like we will take back your bad money with second

2876
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:47,439
two seconds whatever. I think he's a if we're talking

2877
02:05:47,439 --> 02:05:50,279
about likelihood of being traded. He's way way way up there,

2878
02:05:50,319 --> 02:05:52,640
just because that's been the plan all along. I assumed

2879
02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:55,159
maybe I'm maybe maybe we've gone too far with that,

2880
02:05:55,199 --> 02:05:58,840
but I don't. I don't think Washington had anything but

2881
02:05:59,239 --> 02:06:02,119
plans to be like, you can be Alex Sar's like

2882
02:06:02,319 --> 02:06:04,560
security blanket for a minute, and then we're just gonna

2883
02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:04,960
trade you.

2884
02:06:05,600 --> 02:06:08,600
Speaker 1: I look, Lebron took less in part because the Lakers

2885
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:10,560
wanted to get someone like Yonasvalacoutas, so now they might

2886
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:11,760
be able to get him on the trade market.

2887
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:12,560
Speaker 2: That's exactly how that.

2888
02:06:13,119 --> 02:06:15,039
Speaker 1: I did find it funny that you know that you've

2889
02:06:15,079 --> 02:06:18,760
made some pretty bad decisions at backup center that the

2890
02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:21,720
Nuggets when they were looking for offensive juice and it

2891
02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:23,800
was like all these perimeter players and mostly guards, and

2892
02:06:23,800 --> 02:06:27,680
the Yonasvalentutis is mentioned in that athletic report. Funny, our

2893
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:30,680
final player coming in at number thirty on our big

2894
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:33,039
board is the one the only mister Chris Bouchet, who

2895
02:06:33,039 --> 02:06:37,680
you know is eminently available. But Grant, just as someone

2896
02:06:37,720 --> 02:06:39,720
who's like kind of this undersized big and we'll get

2897
02:06:39,760 --> 02:06:42,319
threes up, isn't always gonna make them. And that kind

2898
02:06:42,359 --> 02:06:45,640
of includes making them this season. He's not shooting well

2899
02:06:45,640 --> 02:06:47,239
from three, so I won't even cite it, but I

2900
02:06:47,239 --> 02:06:49,199
think he's at He's at No. K percentage on wide

2901
02:06:49,199 --> 02:06:52,439
open threes. He's at thirty nine point five percent a

2902
02:06:52,560 --> 02:06:56,279
wide open threes. Take it on an expiring contract, someone

2903
02:06:56,359 --> 02:06:57,720
just to give up a second round pick for him.

2904
02:06:57,720 --> 02:07:00,359
I think he boosts. He could play either big man

2905
02:07:00,359 --> 02:07:02,880
spot in a pinch. Even though he's he's clearly like

2906
02:07:02,920 --> 02:07:05,880
more of a four. So he's kind of like what

2907
02:07:05,920 --> 02:07:09,079
if Larry nance Junior played without a conscience. It's like

2908
02:07:09,159 --> 02:07:10,720
basically what what he is?

2909
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:11,079
Speaker 3: Uh?

2910
02:07:11,079 --> 02:07:13,720
Speaker 1: And I love him. I think he could be super useful,

2911
02:07:14,039 --> 02:07:15,960
even it's just a again, how do you make the

2912
02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:17,840
money work? But if you get Toronto to take off

2913
02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:20,640
Gabe gave Vincent's money, that'd be something I gotta be

2914
02:07:20,680 --> 02:07:22,199
looking at if I'm the Lakers, because he could play

2915
02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:24,159
next to a D That's something that could work. And

2916
02:07:24,239 --> 02:07:26,319
I think there are other teams that could, Like if

2917
02:07:26,359 --> 02:07:27,840
Denver had anyone, I mean they could get to the

2918
02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:30,359
money with Zeke Nagy and Dario Sharch But what are

2919
02:07:30,399 --> 02:07:33,199
you giving Toronto to get Chris Bouchet. I think he

2920
02:07:33,279 --> 02:07:35,000
fits on a bunch of teams. Actually, and I'm being

2921
02:07:35,119 --> 02:07:36,039
I'm being serious.

2922
02:07:36,479 --> 02:07:37,279
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't.

2923
02:07:37,079 --> 02:07:39,560
Speaker 3: I think if he's gonna be a spacer that can

2924
02:07:39,680 --> 02:07:43,239
block a shot, still blocks threes. He make shoots and

2925
02:07:43,359 --> 02:07:46,000
blocks threes, those are Chris Bouchet's chief skills.

2926
02:07:46,520 --> 02:07:48,880
Speaker 1: Or he's locked three. So like he's always done. He

2927
02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:51,359
takes threes, he attempts threes, and he attempts to block

2928
02:07:51,359 --> 02:07:53,560
threes and they doesn't always pan out well, but you know,

2929
02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:54,680
you know it's gonna happen.

2930
02:07:55,079 --> 02:07:57,359
Speaker 3: He just understands the math of the modern NBA that

2931
02:07:57,520 --> 02:07:59,199
he just does. Those two things are gonna we're going

2932
02:07:59,279 --> 02:08:01,840
to suppress opponent threes and we're gonna we're gonna increase

2933
02:08:01,880 --> 02:08:03,920
our three point volume. I think it's appropriate that he

2934
02:08:04,039 --> 02:08:07,119
rounds out this list. I respect your I respect our

2935
02:08:07,159 --> 02:08:07,960
inclusion of him.

2936
02:08:08,119 --> 02:08:10,399
Speaker 1: We'll leave the big board up of our top thirty names.

2937
02:08:10,399 --> 02:08:12,800
There any just very quickly names you want to roll

2938
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:14,399
through that that we considered.

2939
02:08:15,439 --> 02:08:18,039
Speaker 3: I mean, there's the list gets pretty long, Like you know,

2940
02:08:18,079 --> 02:08:21,439
I don't know for various reasons. You know, DeAndre Ayton

2941
02:08:21,520 --> 02:08:23,479
is someone it's just like, what is he doing in

2942
02:08:23,640 --> 02:08:25,960
Portland that like should be traded I think maybe the

2943
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:27,960
most interesting one to me is Julius Randall we could

2944
02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:30,000
have thought about because if you view that the Wolves

2945
02:08:30,039 --> 02:08:32,560
trade with this with the Knicks as a financial move,

2946
02:08:32,640 --> 02:08:34,479
part of the appeal to that is Julius Randall is

2947
02:08:34,479 --> 02:08:36,359
someone that you're not married to that may come off

2948
02:08:36,399 --> 02:08:37,479
the books that you can move.

2949
02:08:38,119 --> 02:08:39,600
Speaker 1: Do you think he option?

2950
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:44,159
Speaker 2: By the way, I don't know what to do with.

2951
02:08:44,199 --> 02:08:47,560
Speaker 3: Anybody's player options because of how little cap space there is.

2952
02:08:48,399 --> 02:08:49,960
Speaker 2: I think if.

2953
02:08:50,520 --> 02:08:54,199
Speaker 3: So, that really that's a question of what's his market value?

2954
02:08:54,279 --> 02:08:57,399
Can he get? Can he get three years? Or let's say,

2955
02:08:57,399 --> 02:09:00,159
can he get two years like a one plus one

2956
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:02,880
at fifty million?

2957
02:09:04,279 --> 02:09:07,359
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe from the Wolves. No one with cap space

2958
02:09:07,439 --> 02:09:09,520
is giving him that money, though, right, I don't know.

2959
02:09:09,720 --> 02:09:12,119
Speaker 3: I don't I don't think so. I mean because Brooklyn, like,

2960
02:09:12,119 --> 02:09:15,560
what interest does Brooklyn have in him? Does he just

2961
02:09:15,640 --> 02:09:17,560
he might just pick it up? I think maybe maybe

2962
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:19,239
what's gonna happen is guys, a lot of guys are

2963
02:09:19,279 --> 02:09:21,279
gonna pick up options and all this like the Butler

2964
02:09:21,279 --> 02:09:22,119
stuff is bluffing.

2965
02:09:23,079 --> 02:09:25,319
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, that could be the route, or it's does

2966
02:09:25,319 --> 02:09:27,119
he decline it and the Wolves are bringing him back

2967
02:09:27,119 --> 02:09:28,880
at maybe twenty million a year, and it's like, are

2968
02:09:29,520 --> 02:09:31,640
either do one for thirty and roll the dice if

2969
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:34,079
you're Julius Randall, or you could decline it and get

2970
02:09:34,119 --> 02:09:35,680
three for sixty from the Wolves.

2971
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:37,520
Speaker 2: I think.

2972
02:09:39,199 --> 02:09:41,279
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, It's this is what it's so

2973
02:09:41,439 --> 02:09:45,600
hard to guess, Like what team's appetites for that kind

2974
02:09:45,680 --> 02:09:49,439
of money is gonna be going forward. I think I

2975
02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:53,439
might take the security. I might take the three for sixty.

2976
02:09:53,479 --> 02:09:55,960
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm maybe I'm jaded from last summer, but I'm

2977
02:09:56,000 --> 02:09:58,039
taking the security. If I'm Jess Randall.

2978
02:09:58,359 --> 02:09:59,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

2979
02:09:59,119 --> 02:10:01,760
Speaker 3: I think I but it doesn't it seem equally likely

2980
02:10:01,840 --> 02:10:04,960
that guys like him just pick it up. I'm gonna

2981
02:10:05,359 --> 02:10:09,239
I'll go for unrestricted free agency next year, and then

2982
02:10:09,319 --> 02:10:13,279
I only need to sign two for thirty or whatever.

2983
02:10:13,039 --> 02:10:14,920
Speaker 2: To equal what I would have got, you know what

2984
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:15,279
I mean?

2985
02:10:15,359 --> 02:10:18,520
Speaker 3: Like I can just imagine saying to yourself, Oh, it'll

2986
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:20,479
be better down the road. It won't be it won't

2987
02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:23,800
be so congested, and like Penny pinching forever.

2988
02:10:23,720 --> 02:10:25,960
Speaker 1: With that though, mister Hughes, you ready to take us

2989
02:10:25,960 --> 02:10:26,359
out of here?

2990
02:10:26,680 --> 02:10:30,359
Speaker 2: Yep? Thanks everybody, Thank you. Dan. Remember if you haven't already.

2991
02:10:30,399 --> 02:10:33,199
Speaker 3: Please rate the view, subscribe thumbs up everything, Follow us

2992
02:10:33,199 --> 02:10:36,239
on YouTube, subscribe there, leave some comments on the YouTube videos.

2993
02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:39,119
Speaker 2: Join our discord leaks for that in the YouTube and

2994
02:10:39,119 --> 02:10:39,920
podcast description.

2995
02:10:40,039 --> 02:10:42,159
Speaker 3: Tell your friends about the podcast, tell your enemies about it,

2996
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:45,119
and as always we shout out Frank Milakina and we

2997
02:10:45,159 --> 02:10:46,279
apologize to Jared Allen