Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist,
and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. As always,
you can email the show at radio at the Federalist
dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make
sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and of
course the premium version of our website as well. Today
I am absolutely honored to be joined by Marjorie Danenfelzer,
President of Susan B. Anthony ProLife America. What remarkable times
these are in the life movement. Injury for years has
been at the center of it. Thank you so much
for joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2: Oh it is more than my pleasure. I long long,
long ago downloaded my app for Federalists and I listened
to you all the time. I'm honored as well. We
are indeed in heady time, so I'm happy to be
with you.
Speaker 1: These are indeed heady times, and it's dizzying. These are
dizzying times. It's hard to keep up. You know. We
used to talk about news cycles of twenty four hours.
Now they're twenty four minutes, let's face it, and this
summer only drove that point home just how quickly things
are subject to change in America and American politics. Before
we talk about all of that, I want to take
you back what some of us are old enough to
remember as the way back machine from a certain cartoon
years ago. Take you back to the early nineteen nineties
when you and some other life fighters got together and said,
we've got to do something, and you did creating Susan B. Anthony.
Tell me what life was like for you at the
beginning of this journey.
Speaker 2: Oh, what a generous question. Number one, that you have
a curiosity. And then also you get me and I
go the way back machine also for a minute. Yeah,
I was so not pro life, and through all sorts
of beautiful mean my mind was changed. I wouldn't have
done it on my own. And so that's why I
put it like in that passive way. And when I
was in I was working at the Heritage Foundation after college,
and I was asked, if you go to the to
work for a pro life democrat, which there were many
back then on Capitol L I was a Democrat. I
really was not interested in working for a Democrat, but
somehow the spirit said yes, even though the rest of
me didn't want to, but it was an important moment
to be on Capital Hill. My experience there led me
to the strong conviction that there needed to be a
strong political muscle at the heart of the pro life movement.
There were already beautiful education campaigns that had been going
on for a couple of decades that were beautiful, but
there really was no NRA equivalent of the pro life movement, which,
to be harsh but kind, we needed to have that
velvet hammer. You know, you say your pro life, you
better act that way. So the first thing that we
did was was preliminary, and it was to start electing
pro life women to public office who could communicate the
false promise of the feminists and how much damage it
had done to women and children and men that we
love too, that somehow liberation was I'm sorry, abortion was
the great liberator. And so we started electing those women.
We had a good crop, beautiful women coming from almost none,
and then it just became very clear who not go
on forever, but that we had to increase his muscle
so that it could win elections on the state wide
level that we show our power. We leverage the organic
and beautiful pro life movement in strategic places to win
Senate races, to ultimately find a president who would follow
their verbal and written commitments after obtaining him, for the
pro life movement to do what most people thought perhaps
was maybe never going to happen, which is overturned Roe v. Wade.
And so here we are with a result of a
Senate and a president who did those things, and now
we are holding it in our hands. And what you
described at the beginning as the whirling dervish of this
moment is very much abortion is very much at the
center of that. So that's where we are.
Speaker 1: These are remarkable times because for many reasons. But I'm
thinking about the Dobbs decision, that historic day, fifty years
of this fight, this life fight going on, and many,
how many many lives destroyed. And I mean that in
every sense. I mean the preborn lives obviously, as you know,
the lives of the women, oh yeah, and the people
who have endured abortions in America. But let me start
with our so called friends in the pro life movement.
These are difficult questions, you know, with just less than
three months before a critical election, a critical life election.
But all of a sudden, Dobbs gave pro life Republicans
much of what they wanted, if not all of what
they wanted, And suddenly we saw a lot of these folks.
And I can tell you, as someone who knows particularly
the Republican landscape in swing state Wisconsin, I can't believe
how many Republicans ran for the hills when Dobbs came
down and said, you know what, it's up to the
states when it comes to abortion. You can't federalize something
through a Roe v. Wade decision, And all of a
sudden that made them very itchy and very nervous. Why
let me ask.
Speaker 2: You that, Well, I would say, you know from where
you sit the act meaning the appropriate context of federalism,
And no Republican had argued, almost no Republican had argued
that this was only a state's issue. Now, I'm not
saying that we didn't all say yes, then I'll go
back to the states. People said that all the time.
But the way we all acted, the way Republican elected
acted on the federal level, was to say, hey, let's
at least start at twenty weeks saying that is so
monest but it is like the beginning of building consensus
for the day that we can actually do something about
a federal minimum standard. And as soon as as soon
as that leak came from the Supreme Court about what
they thought Dobbs was going to say, that's when you know,
you've got a couple of general standing in the field,
and the or a couple of troops standing in the field,
and all the generals leave and and here, yeah, and
so and all. It's the story of the garden. I mean,
it is the story of fear, abject fear of that
all the worldly things are going to be that you
love are going to be taken away, and namely power,
and and and the and the without the core commitment
to life, as you said, embedded in the in our
founding documents. That was always the best speach, some of
the best lines in the best speeches. But when it
came to worry about the midterms coming up, whether there
was one job to do and that would stick your
head in the sand as far down as it would
go and hope and pray that no one takes me
to account about my pro life position. And of course
we know the end of that story. It's the same
story I've seen a million times. When people run away
from a deeply moral important issue, you get completely shellacked.
You get labeled things that you would never even conceive
of doing, like putting women in jail, letting them die
instead of getting treatment, you know, for miscarriage, those types
of things. So the Democrat I mean the Republicans, that
all the leadership Republicans, not just rank and foul. Those
are the ones where we had all the conversations with
leading and including Trump, leading into the midterms, and everyone
seems set and then the then when the moment came,
everybody ran for the hills and then blamed, of course,
the pro life movement on some of the losses.
Speaker 1: The last thing, I including the GOP presidential candidate.
Speaker 2: Of course, that's right at the top of the ticket.
And so we're at top of the food chain for Republicans.
But what is what was really under reported that I
saw that you observed is that governors were great. Every
governor that had signed a strong pro life protection was
in great shape. They were all re elected. And a
couple of senators who were strong Jade Vance, Tim Scott
and Rubio all communicated beautifully, didn't have a problem at all,
and so that it really is a story to be
told and retailed. But there hasn't been any lesson learned
that I can see, because frankly, the way this all works,
as you know, is that if the top of the
ticket or the tops of the tickets don't take a
position that is strong and make sense, it just there's
a trickle down, and it trickles down to so many campaigns.
So we just have to stop Kamala and make sure
that we get we prevent a trafecta of the House
and White House to avoid disaster, but start planning strongly
for the future.
Speaker 1: You raise a lot of good points in that, and
you know there is a threat, an existential threat, of course,
and I mean that in every sense of the word
in this election. I mean you can see it as
a life election. But of course they are the realities
of political expedients. But as you just mentioned, with the
success of governors JD. Vance in the Senate and there
are others, they stuck to their guns, they stuck to
the core issues of life, and they were rewarded in
those states for it. But at the same time there
still lingers this worry about how you're going to as
a Republican candidate for anything, survive the onslaught of the
attacks from the left, the Democrat Party and their good
pals and the accomplished media about abortion issues. And I think,
as I've watched this unfold, particularly since Dobbs, I see
a communication gap, a communication breakdown. To put it in
the words of those poetic sages led Zeppelin, I think
there has been a real problem communicating the message of life,
and more so the message of death from the Democrat Party.
This is a party that has moved so far left,
and no matter how the accomplished media tries to spin it,
it is a party that believes an abortion undemand any time, anywhere,
and that has yet to truly be communicated by a
lot of Republicans or pro life conservatives out there.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, you hit the nail on the head. And
you know that the stairway to heaven and politics is contrast.
Speaker 1: Right, And I love the reference that led Zeppelin reference.
Once again, I have to.
Speaker 2: Have to be i' I'm not sure how many more
I have.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, fair.
Speaker 2: Enough, but it's contrast that is the gift. And when
you have a contrast that benefits you to the extent
that this issue could benefit Republicans. If you don't take
it your complete you're committing malpractice in politics. And the
contrast is this what you just described, There is a
no limits policy on the part of the Democratic Party,
and do you pay for the abortions that are publicly possible?
And our position has been let's get to consensus. Are
the Democrats ideal? This is why we have the failing
documents we have to while are Cavanaugh and Alito and
others said, this is the the arena of democracy. It's
the legislative arena that's where these things, especially deeply morally
held battle. This is where it's needed out. And so
while we might not get everything we want, we could
at least build consensus in every legislative arena that is possible,
including the federal legislature. Could say you chose twelve weeks,
or say you chose fifteen weeks like many of them
committed to, or even twenty for heaven's sakes, which they
all voted for. That contrasted with unlimited abortion is a
seventy seventy five percent issue that benefits you only when
you talk about it and when you cloak it in compassion.
But that is what is, that is what is not happening.
And there's still a chance some chants that maybe Jade
Events will do it well, perhaps the president well. In
a next debate, we'll provide some contrast again, but all
in all, not been real happy.
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Speaker 1: Well, as you know, it's a sad truth, but there
are people on the left in the Democrat Party who
are so committed to killing the unborn that to save
that so called night, they will kill, hurt, and damage.
And that's exactly what we saw as we got the
leaked word about the Dobbs decision. And that's and we
have seen that ever since, a very radical leftist throw
abortion movement in America that has turned very violent. How
how was Susan b Anthony America impacted by all of that?
Speaker 2: Well, first, I just do want to say, because I was,
I ended that last comment on a complete downer, like
the disappointment of of that not availing ourselves of the
of the of that contrast. But I but this is
one thing that is very true, and that is that
it is really easy to run against Comma's position if
you want to, and it can be done. And when
we'll be done and this, this, this is the central
of all of the work that we do, Ja, your
question every day is in battlegrounds, door to door, talking
to voters and through other means as well, providing that contrast,
talking about other options for women, trying to bound the
whole thing in compassion and the actual experience as you
allude to, of people in the real world who every
day know somebody who's had an abortion. They themselves may
have this issue hits people differently. It's not like lobbing
for capital gains or estate taxes. This is something that
is some people have never talked about in their lives.
We find that at the door that they, even if
they may be pro life for reasons, have never told anybody.
And that's because of the damage done that The sixty
million children died under row and sixty million women lives
were altered, and the ripple effect of that is something
that we will only understand in the next life, the
deep damage that that is. So while it is a
political issue and we have to we have to act
on that moral imperative, it is also way beyond politics
what this reality has done to the souls into the
physical health of the people of this country. I really
think of it very much like I just my mind
always goes back to the other big landmark decisions that
our country has at the moment did not celebrate, but
in the long run we came to know them as
of course, who could think anything different of segregation, But
at the time it was definitely not embraced by much
of the country.
Speaker 1: Same here, Yeah, I mean, this is a liberty life
and liberty issue at its core, and it's a founding
liberty issue at its core, because whether folks want to
deny this, in modern day America or not, we are
built on Judeo Christian principles. This country is built on them.
It's all built on the principles of the freedom of religion,
the freedom to follow your own conscience. But at its
very core, and it remains, but it is in peril today,
this Judeo Christian conscience that the least among us need
the most protection. And I cannot think of the more
least among us in terms of the weakness, the weakened
position that they are in without a voice, the unborn
in America. And you know, as as we take a
look at the political campaign going on now, the heated
battle between former President Donald Trump and the presumptive Democrat
nominee Kamala Harris, Joe Biden's vice president, there is a
massive reinvention going on of I'mala Harris today should be
evident to anybody with eyes and ears. But Kamala Harris,
of course, over these last or over these next several weeks,
is now being billed as someone different than she is,
than what she was, And obviously that is all by design.
But I know that there are a lot of conservatives
pro life conservatives, and the folks at Susan B. Anthony
Pro Life America are spending a great deal of time
reminding people that the reinvented Kamala Harris is not the
real Kamala Harris. What should Americans know about this presidential
candidate on the topic of pro life, Well, that.
Speaker 2: Is the question for the next few months, but it
should begin with this. We just experienced it passing of
potentially the nomination from an uncomfortably pro choice president to
an aggressively pro abortion nominee in Kama Harris. This has
been the central organizing factor in her whole political life.
I sat in all the all the hearings for Justice Kavanaugh,
and she was at the tip oftha sphere of the grilling.
And I will tell you she did not come across
as silly and incomprehensible as she does often naturally. She
came across it dogged, paired, was gone for the jugular,
and I thought did a pretty pretty good job looking
looking at it from their perspective. So I don't underestimate
her ability to get done what she wants to get done,
and as you say, perhaps that part of the reinvention,
at least of the veneer of who she is. But
the veneer should not persuade anyone she's anything other than
who she is and what she is shutting down pregnancy centers.
There can be no option except for abortion for pregnancies
that are surprised. Abortion is it. That's what pro abortion is,
and it harkens back to the original or like the
you and I remember Patricia Schroede and Barbara Boxer. Some
people listening may not, but they they were hardcore and
they went out of favor because it was you know,
if you have any self respect, you will get rid
of that impediment to your success. Was the message that
came through to young women like me, and it was repellent.
Kamala's position is repellent. And I still think there is
enough goodness in the hearts of real people across the country,
especially who live in battleground states that will come across
as repellent closing down pregnancy centers being for a bill
when this is the reason to pet to oppose the
entire Democratic slate with her at the top. Therefore, one
bill called the oddly named Women's Health Protection Act that
would wipe out every single pro life protection in the country.
There are twenty four states have strong pro life protections
gestational limits either at the beginning at six weeks, a
couple of them at twelve weeks, all gone, along with
all the other things surrounding the abortion Act, like who
gives permission, how are they performed, what circumstances get all
that wiped out, all that work and taking back the
ability for real people in real states to have their
true convictions reflected in their own laws. And so I
do want to say that the contract there between Kamala
and Trump is Trump's position is as a state's only
position is at least to protect state's ability to have
to build their own consensus pats their own laws. She
is not for that. So that is a contrast that
really should and does work when communicated. She's also, uh,
you know when people when David de Leiden, a whistle
blower about plant in plant planned parent had whistleblower revealed
the horror at the heart of the trafficking of unborn
of of unborn children, the little little baby lives used
for experiments and the and the cost for each of
those The harvesting of those little guys and girls to
be used for experiments. When when that was revealed, she
shut that whole Uh, she shut it all down, that
whole investigation, and prosecuted the one who the whistle blower,
David d Lyden, who did that work. So you know,
she's called by what she's called Biden's abortions are because
she is that person, just like the border she It
is her primary passion and is what animates her. She
believes what I used to believe, that whether you could
have an abortion or not was a measure of whether
you were empowered, whether you were strong, whether people respected
you or not. And we know how wrong that is.
Speaker 1: Absolutely amazing times these but I think that Americans across
history have said the same thing. But these are indeed
our comedy. Marjorie Danenfelzer, president of Susan B. Anthony Pro
Life America, joining us on this edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. Let's not forget as well, that this is
a party, Kamala at the head of a party that
would imprison pastors for speaking their minds and for following
their conscience on pro life issues. That's what's lost in
this conversation to the liberty aspect.
Speaker 2: That's right. The Second Amendment, your just ability to gather,
your ability to protest your ability would which the that
bite has been felt by those who are freely praying
in front of pregnancy sinners or yes, or using the
attorney the office of the Attorney General to go after
to go after pro life people who are helping women
with more than one option when they find themselves in
a surprise situation. I think, look, you don't have to
be religious to believe that taking the lives of really
little people is wrong. But if you ever, if you
might be surprising that. But it was exciting to us
that on June twenty second, when the decision came down
on the Dobs decision, it came down at ten ten
in the morning, and I just looked up tent and
in John ten ten it says the thief comes to
steal and destroy, but I have come to give life
and give it abundantly, don't. I think they're sure it
could be an accident at the time, But to us
it was an inspiration in our team here that you know,
win or lose, we're going to keep fighting and we'll
always choose the next most strategic position that we can
to advance life, and that's where we are now looking
for the next try to prevent block Kamala and the
House and Senate Democrats, and then to advance into the
future with new pro life leadership in this country after
having learned a couple of tough lessons in the last
couple of years.
Speaker 1: That's pretty powerful. I never you know, I never realized
the time and all of that, and I wouldn't have
necessarily connected that powerful scripture. But sometimes messages are sent
in very interesting ways. I found that in my fifty
plus years on this earth. Yes, So as we we
move forward in this election cycle, will do you do
you have any faith that corporate media in this country
will show Americans Tamala Harris's actual record as opposed to
the reinvented Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they love the reinvented is to basically ignore what
her real position is. So do I have a lot
of faith. I'm not going to probably begin now in
believing in that corporate media ability. I will always turn
back to you and reliable sources. I do say this though,
I do believe this because it's been true in the
past that when candidates themselves speak, speak well and in
high profile moment moments, it cuts through and forces the
correct reporting to occur. So that when our candidates at
least are communicating that contrast, that gift of how reasonable
their position is in contrast to her or their Senate opponents,
that works. That actually cuts through all of the junk
in the corporate media, and that is something that you know,
I'm working really hard directly with those candidates to try
to encourage them with the you know a little bit
of internal fortitude. Plus, hey, here's some suggested approaches to
how you're going to communicate. That's vital and the rest
us I guess we can't control, which is grateful for
outlets like federalists.
Speaker 1: Appreciate that these are to get the you know, the
full context of things, the impact of things. It's getting
more and more difficult, even as we have more and
more news outlets, more sources of information out there. It
seems like so often that the members of corporate media
let me let me retract that portion of it seems
is not the case. It is so often that they're
singing from the same hymnal more mission mission reporting than
just letting people know, you know, what the facts are.
So that's the disadvantage particularly so called low information voters have.
So how important is it for efforts from conservatives pro
life conservatives to do the door to door That's always
been important, but I would imagine that is that much
more urgent now for organizations like Susan B. Anthony Pro
Life America.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember when pal Palin gave that great speech,
said what happened? You know, eventually she faded, but she
did give a great speech at the convention long ago.
You know, where she's communicating self, describing herself, beking over
the heads of the media, directly to the people. And
I think that is exactly what we do on the ground.
You know, we cut We don't rely just on the
media to communicate to voters what the choice is that
they have before them. So communicating, you know, directly to
friends who vote with UH at you know, at church friends,
all that is important. Our program finds the right people
to talk to, meaning people who may not vote unless
they get a nudge, or people who are sort of
on the fence about UH. They're they're basically pro life,
but they also are kind of democrat leaning. That that
type of voter and all the all the battle grounds,
so that that is really important to cut through everything
go directly to the voter. And as we get closer
to the election, it gets harder and harder to break
through because there's so much information going in. That's why
we start our Our program started last October, so it
so you're way ahead of other and so we're just
giving it was before the candidates were set. You're just
basically giving the what the democratic position is. So so
it is it is vital. And I just wanted to
add one thing to just to be fair because on
several mainstream media interviews that I've been on or and
then I've later seen subsequent interviews, some in the in
the mainstream media or corporate media have asked the right
question of democratic candidates. Dana bash is won what is
your limit? Can you name a limit? Because that's the
right question that that made that corporate media doesn't ask
and some of that. So I want to fan those planes.
What is your limit is the one question that we
really want them to answer, and.
Speaker 1: They won't repeat it. They want you to know, Yeah, exactly,
because because if if you know and if you have
any conscious whatsoever. You know, most most people, whether they
believe in abortion in this country, do have their limits.
But the Democrat Party doesn't seem to have that limit.
We talked about this before, what a Kamala Harris presidency
would look like? What would a Donald Trump presidency look like?
And I say that with the perspective of history, we
already have been through this. We know what a Donald
Trump presidency was. It was an absolute onslaught, an absolute
attack on a daily basis by leftist Marxist leftist in
this country and the accomplished media that we've talked about.
Are you concerned about the state of America? And I
don't mean that to say, hey, we shouldn't vote for
people who are going to represent the best interest of
this republic. I'm just talking about the realities of what
many see as the violence to come in a second
Donald Trump administration.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so fear is always the enemy. We've been
talking about this this whole interview. And when fear overcomes,
bad things happen. So you don't want the good guys
to be afraid. And then Berke, you know, all it
takes is for able to prevail, as good people do
nothing here all the time, and that is true. So yes,
we have to vote for the person who's going to
do the best to defend the unborn and the republic
and not fear backlash, not assume that we can't handle it,
like people assume a woman can't. You know, a woman
doesn't have the inner resources and creativity and love to
handle and unplanned pregnancy. Let's don't assume a republic can't
handle what might happen. So and and I think that
that is you know, these are the proving grounds often
of of democracy, its ability to survive and encourage I'm
encouraged in the last I might be the only one,
but in the last several years because of the argument
that the argument by example that our country and our
founding founding can survive and has survived despite all of
the histrionics and all the guttural screams when there are
things that happened that leftists didn't like, like when Trump
was first elected, that everything was going to fall apart.
Democracy has gone, people in head scars are going to
be imprisoned. None of it happened, and so at least
that should we I mean, it should be a lesson
that we as a nation have learned not just left
rights but all of us that we can withstand these moments,
and we will, and in the middle of it, we're
still going to fight for for the principles that at
the core of our failing documents, namely the unborn right.
But how how Trump would would run and and govern,
I think it's not going to be that different from well,
maybe a little milder. I stn't know, but I but
because he's not running again. But I think that we uh,
no matter what, will be involved as and we will
collectively in trying trying to make sure that the what
happens in this administration is as good as it was
in the next uh. And I mean I'm talking about
from the pro life perspective, because it was the thorough
going pro life administration, just without question. And that's what
we see.
Speaker 1: Again, well, very good. The next several weeks in this
country will be very telling from what we've seen over
the past weeks in this country, there's a good degree
of anxiety, and understandably so. But in this time and
every generation, as we have talked about throughout this interview,
has its own set of challenges, difficulties, obstacles, but it
just seems so much that everything has been turned on
its head over this last decade or so in this
country where where you know, there are a lot of
people in this country who really believe that they are
good and they are doing what is right and righteous
by supporting abortion on demand, any time, anywhere, and they
have been propped up and supported in that opinion again
by actors and institutions in this country that you know,
believe the same thing. And so these are very difficult
times for the pro life movement meant as they have
been over the fifty years before Roe v. Wade was
thankful knocked out by a Supreme Court that Donald Trump
thankfully put together.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I'm sure you could name the number of
times that the pro life movement has been proclaimed dead
in the last yes, oh yeah, pretty much every cycle.
This is really no different and there is no you
can argue, but there is a reality. It's organic. It
has nothing to do with uh probably people getting involved,
has nothing to do with any money they want, generally
not you know, not thinking about political power. But once activated,
it is the sleeping giant. And we've seen that in
the last several years, and it is not going to
got not going away, it's just getting stronger and getting younger.
And so I have great hope in that.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the Mark Twain idea, or at least
what he's supposed to have said, that reports of this
organization's demise have been greatly exaggerated.
Speaker 2: Yes, here, I am telling you so without question. Also,
the other thing is like I'm just dying for people
to get a sense of history. It's going to be
very difficult, but to go back to the original sisters.
Some people call them the suffragists, the people the women
who were involved really early on trying to open doors
for women to be involved in politics, namely just vote
and then get involved. They were all against abortion, all
of them. They saw it as the ultimate exploitation of women.
They knew what it meant to severe maternal rights and
the rights of the unborn child when those were separated,
that it was never good for women. And you didn't
have to they didn't need to be told. They had,
you know, they already they had the instinct to love
their protect they and the separation of that is a
has been so damaging to the inner resources and self
real self actualization of women in this modern time. Just
go back to all of them, and they were really
clear that this was an abomination.
Speaker 1: It's so very foundational. As we talked about before, it
begins that promise of that city on the hill, life, liberty,
then the pursuit of happiness, but life first. Thanks to
my guest today, Marjorie Danenfelzer, president of Susan B. Anthony
Pro Life, very much appreciate the time and the conversation.
Speaker 2: Well's been in time with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you, you bet God bless you and your work ahead.
You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
I'm Matt Kittle, Senior correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be
back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom.
I'm anxious for the fray.