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Speaker 4: In Ireland, it can be hard to get enough vitamin

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Speaker 5: Report meaning a live man.

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Speaker 3: I like it, man letting butterfly flapping and wing big

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down in a forest.

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Speaker 6: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand

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miles away.

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Speaker 7: Man, nobody seen, nobody.

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Speaker 1: Might like.

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Speaker 8: You.

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Speaker 3: Don't need no man, We don't like you.

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Speaker 7: Call in another story. Man, you get back like that.

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Speaker 8: That's the point.

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Speaker 3: Man, don't black it dog on a pano man.

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Speaker 9: Okay, all right, Michael Ferriss, Welcome to the Jay Burton Show.

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How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Man?

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Speaker 7: Good man, thank you for thank you for inviting me on.

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I am looking forward to talking to you. And let

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me just start off by saying you're doing some great

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work and you had some great guests, and listen to

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your recent conversation with Lucas Batkin, and uh, thanks man. Yeah,

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I had Isaac on a few years ago. So his

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brother Isaac and then prior to that, Drew Hopkins and

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Josh Flowery they were working a t REX. So when

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I saw you talking, when I saw you talking to Lucas,

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can my brother straight here because they have another brother too,

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I was like, oh my god, Like Jay was talking

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to Lucas like you know, small world. So that was great.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, And that's always the interesting thing because look, right, like,

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if you're an interviewer, it sort of pays to watch

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tape because you can go through and it's like, oh,

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I've never heard of this guest, But it is kind

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of funny because you realize that everyone has this sort

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of circle, you know, to one degree or another, and

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there's definitely some overlap, right, Like you recently spoke to

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my friend Will Tanner as well as you know, any

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number of other people I've had on and so yeah, man,

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your your guest list is great. I'm actually I haven't saved.

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I haven't listened to it yet. Your interview with John Carter,

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who's a favorite substacker of mine. Talked to him a

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couple of times. But you know, obviously I'm familiar with

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your work, but my audience might not be. So who

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are you and well, what do you do.

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Speaker 7: Well, my name is Michael Ferris. I'm the host of

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my podcast is called Coffee and a Bike and I

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ky and I wish I could take credit for the name,

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but a friend of mine came up with it. So

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shout out to my friend who helped me start this

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eight years ago. So I'm on my yeah, my eighth year. Now.

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It would be completed date in September. And the original

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intention behind it was I live in Phoenix, I love

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to ron, I love boxing, and Arizona's a big running community,

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so I thought, oh, I'll do I like food too,

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so you know, I do food in person. Running. I'd

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go up to flag Staff that's like a mecca for Olympians,

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and then I would go over to la if I

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could connect with people, and uh, you know, in the

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entertainment world, I meet up with them and record record conversation.

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So that was the original tension behind it. And then,

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as you know, you have this idea in your head

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and life is not life is not a straight line.

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And uh so when COVID happened, I had to figure

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out I couldn't do them in person anymore. So I

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I started doing them over with the Zencaster I think

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was the app and just grabbing the audio, and you know,

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then I started getting into the medical freedom, freedom medical

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the health freedom. My friend Ryan Cole started with that,

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Molly James, and then it just evolved. I started looking

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at it as like, oh, trading cards. Oh, I want

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to get the whole set, like and then they would

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mention other doctors or scientists. I'm like, oh, there's some

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more cards to collect, and it started becoming like, you know,

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just just wanted to talk to more and more people

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in that space. And then twenty twenty. That was in

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twenty twenty, but then also the election, I started getting

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involved in that never thought I would, and you know,

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and then you know, later on I talked to Rudy

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Giuliani and you know, Christina Bob who was at One

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American News who ended up becoming an attorney for President Trump.

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And yeah, I've just always been one to like learn,

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you know, you know, I wanted to learn about things

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because there's so much that I don't know, and I

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use this space as an opportunity to just find people

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I thought were interesting and just learn more. So it's

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kind of a long winded answer, but yeah.

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Speaker 9: It's sort of an interesting shift for a lot of people,

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myself included, you know, the whole twenty twenty saga. I've

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said this enough times my audience is probably sick to

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hear me talk about it. But I was in college

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during that time, and that was a dramatic change of pace.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 9: You get to school, you know, you're ready to kind

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of launch yourself as an adult, and then all of

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a sudden, you're under shall we say, rather strict limitations, right,

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you know, my school tried to drum me out for

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certain medical choices I made, and a lot of people

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were sort of stuck in that. And I think for

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many people it was sort of that whether you know,

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we use the term like leaving the matrix moment where

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it is all is not as you had seen it,

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all is not as you've expected, and you know, look

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like people take that in many different directions. But I

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think that's sort of an interesting moment where the official narrative,

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which it obviously had cracks in it, you know, going

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back to the global war and terror, you know, nine

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to eleven, but even you know, well before that had

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started to chip, all of a sudden was truly broken

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for many people, and it's interesting to hear you say

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that I wasn't aware of, you know, the way in

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which COVID affected your work so dramatically, But it makes

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a ton of sense. It's like, well, look like, if

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that didn't change your life, what are you doing? You know,

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it made it clear that the rules you thought, you know,

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governed the game, it did not apply right as we

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saw that election in other instances.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well that's what I find interesting about the times

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right now because I don't know about you, but like,

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I question everything now, and I wasn't that person before

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twenty twenty. But you know, first of all, you know,

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I'm a cynic with some of the stuff, and you know,

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I question everything. I don't believe it's so hard with

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the Internet and with social media. You know what you're seeing.

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You've gotta be careful, like you know what's real, what's

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not real? But uh, yeah, I mean that. But I

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find now what I find interesting now is people I

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think they like forgot because I think one of the

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like the biggest things right now is to not be

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an absolutist, to not just think it's okay, it's going

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this way, or this is happening, or this is the

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way it is because I didn't twenty twenty shouldn't that

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have taught us like not to be an absolutist and

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just trust everything and like.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I mean you're you're, you're completely correct, And

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you know, I sort of had this same discussion with

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a couple friends because, you know, in my mind, going

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back to the kind of you know, twenty sixteen, twenty

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seventeen era, I was graded on a curve of the

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American population pretty far off the reservation anyway, right, just

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the you know, the environment. I was raised in my

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intellectual influences, but I guess I just lacked the life

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experience to know how shamelessly like the media and you know,

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the regime as it were, just lied. And so I

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think a great example of this is the whole Pizza

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Gate stuff right where, and look, I'm not going to

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go in a full tenfoil hat rant here, but the

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version of that story passed down to me and many

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other people was, you know, a bunch of crazy idiots

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on the internet got into Hillary Clinton's emails, came up

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with this wild conspiracy theory, and it's been completely and

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totally debunked. This guy had a mass shooting and that's

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why you can't trust conspiracy theories. And then obviously with

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recent revelations as well as others, you get like one

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level down you're like, wait a minute, One, there may

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have been something there. And two, this mass shooting was

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a guy who went in there with a gun and

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fired one bullet that destroyed the hard drive on the

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computers and the forty thousand dollars server racks that a

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pizza place has. And you're like, okay, well, at the

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very least, I'm not going to say I have the

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smoking gun. I have the you know, the the key

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that opens this. But you're like, okay, well that wasn't correct, right,

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That kind of oppressive, top down narrative about conspiracy theories

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was dishonest, And I mean, look like it seems to

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be that twenty twenty six is the year where every

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conspiracy theory is prooved correct, you know, one way or another.

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And I think it presents a really interesting, you know,

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challenge for the regime because, to be honest, they've really

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relied a lot on that soft power, that ability to

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dictate what is crazy, what is beyond the pale, what

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you can and cannot question, and you know, they're losing

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that sort of epistemic grasp both through you know, political

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revelations and then also technological right you mentioned earlier, like

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you see a video you don't know if it's real,

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like one like okay, well, you know, AI has just

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destroyed any form of reality. From a certain perspective, it

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is to make my second matrix reference in eight minutes

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and twenty one seconds right the desert of the real.

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But also, if you're even slightly conspiratorially minded, you're like,

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wait a minute, if we have this, how long has

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this technology existed for others? And so I don't know.

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It's sort of an interesting moment where, you know, really

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like the whole Ben Shapiro framing of well, facts don't

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care about your feelings is sort of crumbling because the question,

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of course is well, what facts right? And it seems

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to be that there are you know, multiple completely independent

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kind of belief systems with their own your TL teleology

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or whatever, just fighting for domination of like the you know,

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the mind of the populace. But anyway, this kind of rant, Michael,

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I'll throw it back to you.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, it makes me makes me think of

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me saying you know who. I'm paraphrasing what you just said,

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but like, you know who who puts out the facts?

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And I think back to this show. It's called Bordwalk

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Empire and uh ja Agar Hoover is one of the characters.

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He's interrogating this guy, Jeffrey Wright, and he asked him

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something along the lines of you know who who who

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administers the truth? And he responds back with those that

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are in power. I'm getting the line wrong, but you

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get what I'm saying, Like, so the facts are those

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who are in power administer of the facts and these

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are and this as far as you and I know,

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these are the facts, and don't question the facts, right,

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Like that just made me think of that when you

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when you said that, so is a matrix like your

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favorite movie.

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Speaker 9: No, No, it's really not. I've seen it like twice.

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It's just happened to be relevant two times, right in

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this discussion. I'm not going to pretend to be an

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expert on it, but I mean to be fair, the

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Wochowski siblings, individuals, people were pulling a lot from, you know,

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the French post structure. It's like a lot from Deluze.

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I think that line is you know, sort of cribbed

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from him. And you know, sure they may have been weird,

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you know, sex pests, as French people seem to be,

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but they were ahead of the curve on that, right.

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Speaker 7: Well, they make good movies, and you know, and this

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is like, you know, I don't know if you want

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to talk about movies at all, but like just getting

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I'm getting bad. I'm trying to you know, putting political

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side with some of this stuff. There's still good movies.

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Matrix is a phenomenal movie, like and so, I mean

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I was in that space for a little while where

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you're like, ah, yeah, I want to watch this because

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they're political lead, but you know, they're still good. Movies

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are still good. Some of them are still good. They're

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not all bad.

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Speaker 9: Well, I mean, to that point, I think you're you're correct,

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But there's also like there's a reason that a lot

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of the you know, the kind of like modern you know,

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right wing individuals for whatever you want to construe that

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to mean, got their start in media analysis. Because, to

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be honest, the lefties aren't wrong when they say, you know,

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everything is political. They're wrong in the sense that they mean, well,

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I should be able to have you know, a long

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monologue about a trans person of color inserted into you know,

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whatever piece of fiction this is. But you do sort

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of see it's like a photographic negative right of a

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specific culture, of a specific system of thought in a

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piece of art. And that's fascinating. And you can even

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look at something and say, well, I don't agree with this,

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but still.

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Speaker 9: There's an idea there to discuss. I have an unreleased episode.

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It might come out shortly after this actually going through

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Buffalo sixty six, right, kind of weird independent film from

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the late nineties, and she's fascinating yea, yeah, Vincent Gallo.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, wasn't that rated? I don't think I ever and

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never I never saw it. But wasn't that rated? Like

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the worst movie at one point of all time or something? Uh?

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I maybe I don't know it shouldn't Christina, Not to

301
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interrupt you, I think yeah, no, she was, yeah.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, he's a fascinating figure. He has one of the

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funniest personal stores ever where you can get his handmade

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one of one T shirts which include like a picture

305
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of Barack Obama with like a hand scrolled slur for

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a homosexual mail on it. He's kind of a lunatic.

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But point is, the movie's really interesting. And the reason

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I bring it up is because if you if you

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went down and said, like, what are the values of

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this movie, like what is it is it directing you

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to do? As the audience, Like, I don't really agree

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with any of those. But because one it's made by

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kind of an insane outeur, it's fun. And two there's

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actually a very interesting critique of like a previous version

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of kind of flyover American culture in there that funny enough,

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was written at a time where that was you know, oh,

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my working class you know boomer dad, I hate him.

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But you're like, wait a minute, this exact same mechanism

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is happening now, but it is again my upper middle

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class you know, boomer aunt, uncle, whatever, who's addicted to

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you know, MSNBC or NPR. It's like that that critique

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is still accurate, but the culture has shifted around it.

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And so to be honest, man, I've been doing a

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lot of film analysis as well, just because it's it's

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really interesting and as I'm sure you're aware of someone

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who's been doing for longer than I have. If you

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talk about politics every day for eight years, you will

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go insane. And there are many people who have done it.

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So I think it's a it's a smart move there.

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Speaker 7: Well I also think too, it's like, you know, I've

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been talking about this a lot. I mean, I recorded

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earlier today with Plump Chambers and we were talking about markets.

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But you know, he's a very optimistic guy, and and

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you know, and you brought up Will Tanner. I've been

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talking about that conversation I had with him last week.

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I keep bringing it up because I even share this

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with him. Yet it'll be interesting to see we were

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actually talking about you when I recorded. Your name came up,

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and but you know, Will, And it's funny reading the

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comments of people like, well, what good is what good

341
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is it going to be? If you know, if society's

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not here? You know, if you if you just live

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within your own environment and work with what you have

344
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within your own area, and it's like, okay, well, if

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the sky's going to fall there's not much you and

346
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I can do about that. But Will it takes a

347
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very practical approach. And I mean that in the in

348
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the greatest respect because he actually is. People get mad,

349
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they don't hear solutions, but he's providing solutions. It's not

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what people want to hear because they want everything to

351
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like just go away and go back to the lattes.

352
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But I tell you, I was so like impressed by

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by him and and you know, just his knowledge of

354
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history too, Like this guy is not you know, this

355
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guy is not going to fall. It's not going to

356
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be mad Max tomorrow. I mean, I guess it could happen, but.

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Speaker 9: Sorry, muted professional podcaster ladies and gentlemen. But in all seriousness, right,

358
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and this is something that I know Will and I

359
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agree on, but is a and I hate to say this,

360
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but you see this a lot in kind of like

361
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the like the bitcoin gold space. I realized this aren't

362
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,680
the same thing. But this idea that like, oh, you know,

363
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it's all going to come grumbling down, right, and you

364
00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:06,279
see it look like in the like malicious space of

365
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you know, thirty years ago. It's a common narrative that

366
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like the end of nine and like, don't get me wrong,

367
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Like there are by any number of metrics things are

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not going well.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 9: We can talk about, you know, affordability, we can talk about,

371
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you know, the birth rate. We can talk about the

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rate of people who are just simply talking to girls,

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you know, like very basic things that we're just kind

374
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of assumed parts of human society. It's like, okay, well

375
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that's not good.

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Speaker 7: Right.

377
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Speaker 9: If I could wave a magic wand and fix it,

378
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,920
I would, But Mike, you and I can't. Right, our

379
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,960
agency does not extend to that level. We do still

380
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,000
have agency. There are things we can control. So it's like, okay, well,

381
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,720
given that limitation, what can be done? Because if you

382
00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:53,480
simply kind of wallow in despair, and you see this

383
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:59,079
constantly on the internet, especially in hyper politicized spaces, it's like, well, one,

384
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,599
you're basically new to and to your life is miserable,

385
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,640
and does that really help you in any way? Right, Like, sure,

386
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:08,279
you may be eventually correct when you know the sky falls,

387
00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:12,519
but for the intervening fourteen fifteen years of your life,

388
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:17,920
you lived a horrible life. And also, like you do

389
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,960
still have agency, maybe not like the amount required to

390
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:23,880
avert that crisis. But in the meantime there are things

391
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,200
to be done. And yeah, I think that one of

392
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:34,359
the other things that is relevant to that discussion is

393
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,559
that generally, you know, as Smith said, right, there's a

394
00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:41,480
lot of rude in a nation. Things can keep getting

395
00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:44,200
worse for a lot longer than many would like to believe.

396
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:47,160
And I think that, you know, that sort of collapse

397
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,039
in my mind functions in a similar way to how

398
00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:54,839
the revolution does, or the kind of socialist types or

399
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,160
is this sort of deis x mac in a where

400
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,200
it's like, why this dramatic thing will happen and then

401
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,480
you know, I will be justified. And I understand the

402
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,480
utility of that psychologically, right from the perspective of like,

403
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:13,359
oh well, I don't see how my goal is going

404
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,880
to be or my prediction is going to be realized.

405
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:21,039
But fundamentally that doesn't actually help you do anything in

406
00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:23,400
the here and now. It is sort of a deferral

407
00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:27,880
of that, sort of an abnegation of responsibility, I guess.

408
00:21:28,519 --> 00:21:32,319
And again, I don't want to be seen as a Pollyanna.

409
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:33,720
I don't want to be seen as someone who has

410
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,279
an overly optimistic view on things. Far from it. But

411
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,240
to me, I see that as being sort of a trap,

412
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,839
and it reminds me, honestly, a lot of the writings

413
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:45,920
of C. S.

414
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 6: Lewis.

415
00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:49,759
Speaker 9: He has this, and it comes up multiple times in

416
00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:52,880
his work Pilgrim's Regress as well as others, where he

417
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,720
talks about this idea that the most realistic, the most

418
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,200
he would have said, manly or kind of act you're

419
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,200
at version of the world is the most nasty, the

420
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,640
most brutish, you know, the vision of the world where

421
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,839
it's all screwed. And Lewis says, one, that's not true.

422
00:22:08,839 --> 00:22:12,240
That's an ideological framing. You actually, uh, George R. Martin,

423
00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:14,519
you actually see this very clearly in right, the idea

424
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:17,160
that the most realistic, accurate portrayal of human natures is

425
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:22,880
kind of like Hobbsey and misery, but also right, that

426
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,359
produces a measurable change in you and a measurable change

427
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,079
in those around you. His infamous h you know, men

428
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,480
without chests essay the idea that if you tell people

429
00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:35,799
that there is simply nothing to the world more than

430
00:22:35,799 --> 00:22:39,359
the material, more than the nasty and the brutish, well

431
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,960
then people don't run into burning buildings to say the kid, right,

432
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:46,079
that the kind of heroic, transcendent actions which actually do

433
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,559
have a chance at you know, either averting catastrophe or

434
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,759
sort of being generative doing the things that you know

435
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:58,480
created a nice civilization. Those are incompatible. And this is

436
00:22:58,519 --> 00:22:59,960
a hell of a rant. And I realize I'm supposed

437
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,480
interviewing you, but it is an attitude that I think

438
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:09,920
is completely and totally unhelpful and really limiting, and in

439
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,599
any one of these alternative spaces, whether it's you know, prefers,

440
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,000
whether it's you know, whichever one of those groups, I

441
00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:21,839
see that same, to be honest kind of coping mechanism. Sorry, Mike,

442
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:24,200
it's a whole bunch for me. So I'll throw it

443
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:24,839
back to you.

444
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,079
Speaker 7: No, no, no, I I you know, listening to you,

445
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:31,319
he's got the thought of my head, like, yeah, I'm

446
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:33,720
not taking a nuclear sleeping bag with me if I

447
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,920
have to run over to the store. I don't have

448
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,640
a nuclear I don't even know if those exists, but

449
00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:38,960
the whole idea of like I've got to take my

450
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,680
nuclear sleeping bag that way, if the nuclear war happens

451
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,880
while I'm at the store, I'm prepared. Or I need

452
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,039
to take my my Batman utility kit or my James

453
00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:53,079
Bond survival kit. That way, I'm prepared. If you know,

454
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,440
the government falls like running errands. I don't want to

455
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,640
live that way. So so you know, I just I

456
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,519
don't know. I mean, look, all these things could happen, right,

457
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,200
I mean I can't. I can't sit here and say,

458
00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:12,559
you know, nothing is for sure, but the likelihood that

459
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,799
it will I think, I think are I think the

460
00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:16,319
probability is we're going to be okay.

461
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,279
Speaker 9: Well, and look like I had a recent conversation UH

462
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,559
with I think he's the media liaison. He's a you know,

463
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,839
he has some sort of official role and in Rania right,

464
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,400
the kind of planned community out in South Africa. And

465
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,279
to me, I really like talking to the South Africans

466
00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:40,960
one because I tend to get along with them. I

467
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,319
think that they're you know, they're fun to hang out with.

468
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,720
They're funny. There's something about that kind of Calvinist view

469
00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:51,400
on life that I appreciate. But like, we really could

470
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,799
get down to the brash tax It's like, okay, well,

471
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,359
that situation is way worse than what we've got here

472
00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:01,440
from a pure numbers perspective, from a look like the

473
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,000
amount of violence, the lack of you know, government services,

474
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,240
even something as basic as power. And so to me,

475
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:11,839
that's an interesting example for two reasons. One because it

476
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,519
shows you like, things can get a lot worse before

477
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,440
they're over right. That is a group of people both

478
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,720
you know, the Iranians and also like the solid Aratop movement,

479
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,480
like they're doing things, they're you know, arguing their case,

480
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,559
they're doing well for themselves, they're building something, they're doing

481
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,160
something productive. But also I think that it attacks a

482
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,880
similar myth that you tend to see in I'll just

483
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,359
use the broadest possible term alternative communities, the far right,

484
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,519
the far left, people who have certain views on diet, whatever,

485
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,720
which is the idea that material conditions, things will get

486
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:52,599
bad enough that you know, Joe public will wake up

487
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,279
and sure, you know, people do react to stimulus, and

488
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,640
if things got as bad as South Africa, more people

489
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,720
would say, oh, that's a bad idea to you know,

490
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,240
do X, Y and z I will adjust accordingly. They're

491
00:26:04,279 --> 00:26:08,599
not going to deny that. But also they still have

492
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,519
libtards in South Africa, a lot of them, even in

493
00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:16,440
what's basically a ward zone. So I think that's an

494
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,880
interesting myth as well that you see kind of off

495
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,960
repeated the idea that oh, people will wake up. For instance,

496
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,400
in my home stated Virginia has gone through, you know,

497
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,319
a massive political shift. And you know when I'm down

498
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,559
at the pawn shop talking to the boomers there, they're saying, oh, well,

499
00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:33,920
they'll they'll get it now. They will, they will understand

500
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,319
the error of their ways. It's like, I don't know

501
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:39,000
about that, man. I understand why that's a comforting thing

502
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:42,279
to believe, but I don't know if that's necessarily born

503
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,359
out in reality.

504
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,519
Speaker 10: You see what I'm getting it well, and don't don't

505
00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:52,079
you think it's it's it's about individualism and not collectivism,

506
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,880
and that I mean, that's what made this country great,

507
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,160
so you as the individual.

508
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:58,519
Speaker 7: Look, I can't change what happens at the top level, right,

509
00:26:58,599 --> 00:27:01,680
I can't. We why we talk about it because you know,

510
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,000
part of our job, right, But the reality of it

511
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,559
is what happens at the very top. I can't do

512
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,160
anything about.

513
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,359
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514
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515
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516
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518
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520
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521
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522
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523
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529
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530
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 7: You know, if if these cities, you know, these cities

531
00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:15,839
break out with some type of uh, you know, ice

532
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,839
rist approach, there's nothing I can do about that. So

533
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:21,039
as an individual, though, there's a lot of things I

534
00:28:21,079 --> 00:28:23,240
can do within my environment. And this is what you know.

535
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,160
I went back to my conversation, well because because somebody said, oh, well,

536
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,160
you know, there's gonna be nothing left in society, but

537
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,960
you can you can still make money. Well you missing,

538
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,400
You're missing the point like there are there's there are

539
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,359
opportunities out there right now. And I fell into this

540
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,000
trap too, and I and I'm saying it. I'm saying

541
00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:42,680
on my own show, and I'm saying it with you.

542
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,599
Uh you know, I I need to be better about that,

543
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,519
because there are opportunities. You know, look at I mean,

544
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,480
I get a chance, I'm on your show, I get

545
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,640
to talk to people on mine. You know, there's so

546
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,880
much there's so much room to learn and grow and financially,

547
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,759
there's opportunities, and uh, you know, I just I don't

548
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,680
want to subscribe the narrative anymore of like, you know,

549
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,559
we're all gonna I mean, we're all going to die

550
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:07,039
at some point, but we're all going to die tomorrow

551
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:09,920
type of thing, and society is going to collapse, and

552
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,960
I don't know, I just it's just not productive.

553
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,279
Speaker 9: Well, I want to maybe slightly push back on the

554
00:29:20,599 --> 00:29:25,400
individualism comment, because in my mind, when we look back

555
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,400
to our own countries past, that question of is it

556
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,480
more individualistic or more collectivist actually quite complicated, because sure,

557
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,440
there's no nationalized healthcare, there's no insurance, there's none of

558
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,000
there's really not much of a government per se. But

559
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:47,319
also the kind of informal social bonds were much stronger, right, Like,

560
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,039
I mean many states had blasphemy laws, however infrequently enforced.

561
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,319
And also right in that kind of frontier setting, you

562
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,759
required human cooperation, right Like you simply could not exist

563
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:06,400
on your own because well you would starve to death.

564
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:08,559
And when I look at our current setting, it's like, well,

565
00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:11,400
on one hand, yes, it is extremely collectivized, right, people

566
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,640
have their you know, their entire ideology, what they think,

567
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:17,400
dictated to them by the skinner box in their pocket.

568
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,519
But also at the same time, when you actually look

569
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,960
at people how they live, they're sort of more radically

570
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:30,200
autonomous than ever. Right, there are very few social bonds

571
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,640
you actually have to do anything with, Okay, Like, even

572
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,079
if you're married, you just leave your wife, and sure

573
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:40,960
you have to pay, right, but like there's really not

574
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,640
even a social consequence to doing that. You can simply

575
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,240
go somewhere else. I mean, even down to the point

576
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,039
of door dash. You know, all of these things which

577
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,720
enable you to live as a completely unconnected economic unit.

578
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,359
And so to me, in my mind, when I look

579
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,519
at the solutions, when I look at the people who

580
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:05,640
are kind of threading the needle of modernity. They're collectivists.

581
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,720
I mean to go back to Irania, right, they have

582
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,759
very strict labor controls on who you are and aren't

583
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:13,440
allowed to hire. Basically they say, well, if you're here,

584
00:31:13,839 --> 00:31:16,119
you hire the people that live here. And you could

585
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:19,440
look at that and say, well, that is a collectivist solution.

586
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,920
Not entirely, it's not communists by any means. There's sort

587
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,519
of a walled free market. And so I'm wondering, and

588
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:31,640
maybe I'm curious to get your response if that individualistic

589
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,440
to collectivist binary might not necessarily map on what we

590
00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:37,119
see happening.

591
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:42,799
Speaker 7: Wow, that's a good question. I mean when I referenced it,

592
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,440
I think I think of myself as an individual of

593
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:49,880
opportunity right to where and you and as an individual

594
00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:54,519
you have you have an opportunity within your own community

595
00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:57,160
to build out your community as an individual and find

596
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,000
like minded people to make that community on the law

597
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,599
local levels stronger, if that makes sense. So that's where

598
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,960
I was reverencing the difference between individualism and collectivism. Yeah,

599
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,279
and I.

600
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 9: Think that that also you see the kind of you know,

601
00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:17,160
when you have limited power where do you deploy it?

602
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:17,799
Speaker 7: Right?

603
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 9: Because you and I have effectively no power whatsoever of

604
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,799
what happens in Washington, right, you know, you and I

605
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:25,920
can stomp our feet and get angry about, you know,

606
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,119
a change in federal policy, and quite literally nothing will happen.

607
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:32,720
You know, they will continue to do the things that

608
00:32:32,759 --> 00:32:35,079
you or I may not like. But you know, on

609
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:37,759
a local level, right, there's much more to be done.

610
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:42,480
You are a larger piece of that polity. So I'm curious,

611
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,240
right because you've you've been around for a long time,

612
00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:50,200
and you've seen the kind of kind of rises and

613
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:56,599
and I guess falls of certain kind of groups or movements,

614
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,559
and so I'm curious, right, do you do you see

615
00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:05,039
there being some kind of through line as to you know,

616
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:08,640
which groups, which ideas succeed in which don't, because it

617
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,079
seems to be, you know, there's a broad shift. We

618
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:13,839
can look back over the last ten years. But at

619
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:16,079
the same time, many of those figures that were prominent

620
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,240
have fallen by the wayside. You know, names I'm sure

621
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:23,720
you remember, but you know who don't really come up anymore. Like, Honestly,

622
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,119
one of the one of the ones I always think

623
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,640
about is, oh, shoot, I was about to bring that

624
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,759
up and then it just completely fell off my fell

625
00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:33,759
off the tip of my tongue. But point is right,

626
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:36,039
there any number of figures who are no longer nearly

627
00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:38,359
as prominent as they were. And so I'm curious, what

628
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,000
do you see as being the dividing line through kind

629
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440
of the last two years of or last ten years

630
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:48,400
rather of you know, discourse, what caused it?

631
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 7: Is thatver you're asking, or if.

632
00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 9: There's some kind of like, what do you think is

633
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,759
a common thread and you know what seems to from

634
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:58,039
your view predict success and failure over that time.

635
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,559
Speaker 7: Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the

636
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:06,720
just the technology space, right the social media, how people

637
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,679
are just consumed by their devices. And I mean I'm

638
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:13,719
guilty of it. You know, X and sub stack and

639
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,039
these things are I mean, they've had positive impacts in

640
00:34:17,079 --> 00:34:18,480
my life. I mean, I wouldn't be talking to you

641
00:34:18,559 --> 00:34:21,039
right now. I wouldn't talk to probably ninety five percent,

642
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,239
probably more than that of the people on my show.

643
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,800
But wasn't for wasn't for it, you know, for Instagram

644
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,320
to begin with, And then I didn't have Twitter at

645
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,559
the beginning. I just had Instagram. I was staying away

646
00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:35,599
from Twitter. But as long as I created it, because

647
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:38,639
I had a friend of mine doctor, she didn't have Instagram,

648
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:40,519
and she said, create in Twitter and I'll retweet it.

649
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,679
That's how it started to be down that rabbit hole

650
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,079
for you learn this stuff as you go on, right,

651
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,199
like you know, add little things here and there. But

652
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,679
but yeah, I think that's been a huge, a huge

653
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,159
positives to it. But then the negatives, right, the trade

654
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:58,400
off of the divide, just the divide because people don't

655
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,840
talk to each other. People are so consumed by the

656
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,280
devices like robots. I mean, Jay, I see people walking

657
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,760
across the street looking at their phones. They're not even

658
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,000
paying attention to the intersection. It's unbelievable. And I crossed

659
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,639
the street to go to the gym, so I'm like,

660
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,000
you know, very cognizant. I'm not looking at my phone.

661
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,239
But then when I'm driving, you know, or yeah, when

662
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,960
I'm driving, I see it the same thing, people just

663
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:25,599
looking at their phones across the street. But then the

664
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:28,480
same tome when I'm crossing the street, people are looking

665
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,840
at their phones while they're making the turn.

666
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:38,599
Speaker 9: Honestly, you're entirely correct, and this is one of my

667
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:43,440
this is a very weird pet peeve, but you know, nonetheless,

668
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:45,880
we'll go with it. Is that you see this in

669
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:50,679
like social settings as well. I went out with my

670
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,440
family grabbing dinner, and you're kind of over over someone's shoulder.

671
00:35:56,559 --> 00:35:59,480
I could see the table behind us was I guess,

672
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,960
I'm not sure or I don't know the high school schedule,

673
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,159
but it was some sort of formal event.

674
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:04,559
Speaker 7: Right.

675
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:08,679
Speaker 9: There are a bunch of teenagers there, and this couple

676
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,559
is on a date, and I felt so bad for

677
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:16,280
this guy. This girl is as apparently they had taken

678
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,519
photos together, and she's sitting down at the dinner table

679
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,559
editing on her phone the photos instead of talking to

680
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,079
this kid. So he's just melting right because of course

681
00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:27,239
he's a little bit awkward obviously, and I don't really

682
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,599
don't want to look at him because I know he's

683
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:31,519
probably feeling worse. To watch the like very clearly realize

684
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:34,039
what's going on. But even then, right, you see that

685
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:37,639
that that is an interaction, which at least for her, like,

686
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,119
the interaction isn't there to actually have it, right, the

687
00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:42,159
purpose of that is not to actually go on a date.

688
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,239
It's to have something that can be broadcasted onto the internet, right,

689
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,960
that was the purpose for her, and so the photos

690
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,480
being done, that's what she's you know, motivated by. And

691
00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:55,559
you see that, you know, one that obviously the addiction

692
00:36:55,679 --> 00:36:58,360
to the screen, but also the sense that like, well

693
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,760
so so many things now are mediated through that kind

694
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,199
of external audience. Right, They're not done for their own sake,

695
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,480
They're done to be broadcasted, you know. It's kind of

696
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:13,800
like the extension of like reality TV to everyone at

697
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,840
all points. And I think that's an interesting shift from

698
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,440
and you see this at music venues as well, right,

699
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,480
where how many people at a concert are there but

700
00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:31,360
with the phone up recording one. I feel like we

701
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,320
all know this. Nobody wants to watch those videos. They

702
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,599
come out horribly anyway. But again, you see that literal

703
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:42,119
intermediation where you are there, but you're also viewing it

704
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,239
kind of up through a two forty p camera. It's

705
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,079
sort of a bizarre thing. And I think that in

706
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:50,360
my mind, one of the biggest changes is how that

707
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:56,880
has affected even older people. Right, where social media went

708
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,000
from something that was used by college students and teenage

709
00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:04,239
to now I mean not literally my grandparents, but people

710
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,519
my grandparents' age seem to basically spend all of their

711
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:09,880
time on the Internet. Like it's no longer a thing

712
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,599
for weird people or people who are kind of doing

713
00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:16,480
something alternative. It is for everyone at all moments, which

714
00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:18,079
I think is an interesting change as well.

715
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:22,119
Speaker 7: Well. And it absolutely I mean you can go down

716
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:23,920
the rabbit hole and YouTube. I mean I have friends

717
00:38:24,119 --> 00:38:26,599
parents are retired and they'll sit on YouTube all day long,

718
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,000
all day long, fishing or whatever. I mean, you can

719
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:35,199
find everything's on YouTube. But also, you know, I think,

720
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,559
like what I said earlier, I mean, you got social media,

721
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:41,239
but it also but in addition, is this absolutism. I

722
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,280
don't even know if that's a word, but you know

723
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,639
where it's hardline, it's this, it's this, it's this is this,

724
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,880
and I am not budging. This is my stance. And

725
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,920
so you had the whole you have the whole left

726
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,159
right thing right, it's it's it's I'm pro choice or

727
00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:02,360
I'm pro life or and and now, yeah, that's where

728
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,480
I thought twenty twenty would have woken people up. But

729
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:08,320
apparently it hasn't woken You know, I thought I wouldn't

730
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,119
thought it would have woken up more people than what

731
00:39:10,159 --> 00:39:14,079
it has because now you've got this absolutism on the right,

732
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,159
like and it just keeps dividing, dividing and dividing. It's like, okay,

733
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,519
whatever happened to just not subscribing to a certain narrative.

734
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:24,320
You could take things not the thing's black and white. Not.

735
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:28,400
Most things aren't black and white, especially in the economic

736
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,559
the political landscape are and it's very gray. So you know,

737
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,320
I mean, perfect example, right now, people want to talk

738
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,079
about the twenty eight election. It's like, how can you

739
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:40,519
even talk to you? How can you even talk about

740
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:42,639
that right now? It's three years from now. I'm not

741
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:46,039
even like talking about the midterms. End of summer. You'll

742
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:50,239
get kind of an idea, I think, midsummer, end of summer. So,

743
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,320
I mean, this is not black and white. Not. I'll

744
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,960
give you my line, Jay, this is not a superhero movie.

745
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,880
I've been saying that on my show all the time

746
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,280
because apparently people think we are, You're a superhero movie.

747
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I mean I think that, and this is

748
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,159
kind of a thesis I've been working on for a while.

749
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:10,719
But I think there's there's something to it, which is

750
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:13,760
it seems like we're kind of at the end of.

751
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,519
Speaker 11: You make time to move, to breathe, to check your stamina,

752
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759
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760
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Speaker 12: Because PwC understands your business, we provide you with AI

761
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763
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Speaker 9: A system of thought right, a collection of you know,

764
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:09,559
beliefs about you know, what is and isn't acceptable. You know,

765
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:11,840
what is the point of society, what is the point

766
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,639
of your life? And there's this sort of you know,

767
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:22,639
all against all fight for what comes next, and so

768
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,800
that that totalizing all you're feeling. It's definitely there. And

769
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,800
I think what it is is that you know, whatever

770
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,159
the old system was right this you know, the kind

771
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:37,719
of ideology of you know, the FDR administration, the sixties.

772
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,519
Whatever kind of you know camera you look at is

773
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:44,639
sort of dying out. And you see this from both

774
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:47,960
the left and the right. I mean, look like you

775
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,280
look at the kind of rising stars and the Democratic Party,

776
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,960
it's like are they liberal? And no, they're not liberal.

777
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:56,840
I mean like, sure they have left wing ideas, but

778
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,639
like the things that the way in which they view

779
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:03,079
the world is not fundamentally liberal. And you see this

780
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:05,360
in their party affiliations, right, you know, more and more

781
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,760
of them are self describing as socialists. You know, they

782
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,400
speak in extremely dramatic language about you know, what needs

783
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,880
to be done to their enemies. That's totalizing. And in

784
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,559
the same way, I think you're starting to see the

785
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,480
rumblings of a similar thing on the right, where it

786
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:25,119
is not simply that you know, you can imagine a

787
00:42:25,199 --> 00:42:27,599
you know, a presidential candidate saying, oh, well, you know,

788
00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:31,440
my opponent, we have our disagreements, but we ultimately both want,

789
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,519
you know, what's best for the country. I think that

790
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,119
those two narratives, and it's not just those two, they're

791
00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:41,159
you know, dozens within them and then also around them,

792
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,760
are ultimately mutually incompatible. At this point, the I mean,

793
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,679
as a stupid kind of hackneyed example, but even the

794
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,280
conversation around something like you know, transgender people, right, Like

795
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,000
that is a fundamental reality claim yes or no? Right,

796
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,599
a very basic one, and you see many others like

797
00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:03,840
what is the purpose of a nation?

798
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:04,519
Speaker 13: Right?

799
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:06,639
Speaker 9: Is a nation a home for a people? As a nation?

800
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:10,159
You know, simply an idea anyone can subscribe to. And

801
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,679
that sort of epistemic breakdown where you have the kind

802
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:18,039
of central organizing ideas that you know, produce a society crumble.

803
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:21,239
It's it's kind of a power vacuu. And so I

804
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,360
wonder if you know what you're identifying is basically a

805
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,840
scramble for that kind of like that that king of

806
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,760
the hill role, right, who gets to dictate, you know,

807
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,880
what is generally seen as acceptable. It's just a kind

808
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,000
of thesis I've been working out, but I'm curious to

809
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:38,679
get your thoughts on.

810
00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 7: It, Like, so who determines what the facts are? Basically?

811
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,360
Is that what you're asking effectively?

812
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 9: And that's what the fight is, that kind of totalizing

813
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:47,440
you know game you're seeing.

814
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 7: Right, But but but also don't you think like the

815
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,360
fight will never end. It'll go on after me, It'll

816
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,760
go on after you. It will never They'll never be

817
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,440
a winner. It'll just keep going and going and going,

818
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,440
and it'll and I'm more into the belief now it's

819
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,920
like it's just gonna shift shift, shift, like and and

820
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:09,920
you know a slow burn as well, right, Like you're

821
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,719
seeing our society just kind of slowly, Like the decay

822
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,000
is just slow burn, slow burn, slow burn, slow burn.

823
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:19,960
So I you know, I who will you know which

824
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,760
way will the pendulum swing next? Hard to say. I

825
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,960
mean it's hard to say three years from now where

826
00:44:26,039 --> 00:44:28,920
where this will go. I mean I could guess, but

827
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,840
you know, everything we say is guessing, right, nobody knows.

828
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,480
People people proclaim they know.

829
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,119
Speaker 9: That's that's fair. I guess that in my view of

830
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:46,599
in my view of things, and maybe this is maybe

831
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:50,440
this is naive, but to me, like there is a

832
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,559
certain secular pattern to this in the sense that and

833
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:58,039
we've had this in America, right, like we are still

834
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:01,440
kind of living in the world FDR built. But the

835
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,039
country before that was the country that Lincoln built, and

836
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:07,360
then before that Jackson and before that you know, Washington

837
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,159
and Jefferson, and you know, after that kind of big

838
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,880
crack up, that shift like politics still goes on right,

839
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,079
Like you know, man is the political animal, right, as

840
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:23,039
the Greeks tell us. So like that level of politics

841
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:26,639
we could consider like small pe. Politics keeps going, but

842
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:30,559
it seems that those you know, those big questions of organization,

843
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,199
those once they are decided again, politics continues, but it

844
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,239
is within certain bounds. Right, The bounds are set for

845
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,960
a time until they decay. I mean the Romans are

846
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,239
a great example of this as well. Right, that transition

847
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,760
from a republic to an empire. It's like, well, of course,

848
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,920
you know, there's constantly men, you know, fighting for their fortune.

849
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,000
There's constantly in the kind of daily grind of politics.

850
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:01,679
But fundamentally, right, the bounds had shifted. And I wonder

851
00:46:01,679 --> 00:46:03,400
if that's what we're going through. It just kind of

852
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,079
in the very like early moments of which is you know,

853
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:09,039
a transition from sort of one sort of system to another,

854
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:12,159
or at very at least the death of one. But

855
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:19,239
I'm curious to get your your thoughts on this from

856
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,000
both the kind of you know, the the right and

857
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:26,679
the left. You you hear a lot about division, and

858
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:33,519
h I don't necessarily understand how that division can be healed,

859
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:36,920
because in my mind I see it as almost of

860
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,920
you know that the crack has gotten too deep. But

861
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,840
I'm curious, do you think that there is a way

862
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,440
to you know, to bridge that gap or to kind

863
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,039
of restore some kind of healthy uh, you know, good

864
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:48,880
faith discourse.

865
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 7: You mean at the top level or on our level

866
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:57,639
either or H Well, I think I think, I think

867
00:46:58,119 --> 00:47:00,599
I think you have to focus on what we can

868
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:03,440
do as individuals. To come back to my individualism because

869
00:47:04,159 --> 00:47:08,079
as individuals, the people that might you know, I don't

870
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:10,039
even I am quoting my friend michaellyy On here, but

871
00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:14,119
you know, when he's a line when people start coming

872
00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:15,599
up to me, I don't know if it happens to you,

873
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,280
not come up to you, but you start talking about

874
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,920
things like this, and they're like the people that watch

875
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,840
CNN or they watch Fox News or you know, they're

876
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,920
not paying attention to it as close as not that

877
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,920
I'm an expert by any stretch, but you know, we

878
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,920
watch this stuff. This is what we do. But you'll

879
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,559
have people that have come up and they start talking

880
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:37,079
about abortion or something. It's like, you know, go sit

881
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:39,280
at the kids table if you're that you know, Michael

882
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,159
always says that I love that line, Go sit at

883
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:43,239
the kids table. We don't have time for that right now.

884
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,400
We don't have time for that type of discussion. And

885
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,440
so but also with that, I get how heavy for

886
00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:55,920
people to follow this stuff and the father and the

887
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,519
more you pay attention with the I feel like the

888
00:47:57,559 --> 00:47:59,599
less I know, right, the farther down the rabbit hole

889
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:01,960
you go. No, I don't really anything like so I

890
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,039
can't imagine when it's like somebody who's working eight to

891
00:48:04,159 --> 00:48:07,480
five and you know, they tune into whatever network that

892
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:11,039
they pay attention to and you know, try to figure

893
00:48:11,039 --> 00:48:13,239
out what what what is going on? I mean, they're

894
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,599
just they're getting fed the information and they're just grabbing

895
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:18,199
onto that. But I do think they're I mean I

896
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,280
think I think on our level, you know, you you

897
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,599
work within your sphere, right, that's all you can do.

898
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:28,119
And but at the top level, you know, where does

899
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:31,400
that all go? I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

900
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:32,199
Speaker 10: I I I.

901
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,199
Speaker 7: Think I don't want to use the word hope because

902
00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,760
I hate that word. I hope. It's not a strategy. Well,

903
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,599
and I were talking about that. How do you feel

904
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:44,159
about that word?

905
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 9: Well, actually, I mean I think probably in agreement with Will,

906
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,199
I mean, going back to that earlier digression about like

907
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,800
the revolution or you know, the the boogloo, the crack up,

908
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:03,280
the fractice, you know, tick quote uh Manson, Yeah, yeah,

909
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,880
whichever one of those, you know, the helter skelter actually

910
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,239
I think that was Manson, whichever one you pick. It's

911
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,639
like to be honest, right, Like it's a dark form

912
00:49:11,679 --> 00:49:13,639
of hope, but that's basically what it is. It's like

913
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,199
something will dramatically change and put me in a position

914
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:20,320
where I can do X, y Z. And like when

915
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,159
you talk about hope as a virtue, I think that

916
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,440
that's incredibly important because like hope is the opposite of

917
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,440
a black pill, right, it's the opposite of that kind

918
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:34,679
of creeping nihilism that nothing matters, and like, functionally, the

919
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:40,440
revealed preference of most people, myself included, is basically nihilistic materialism.

920
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,880
You know, it's this idea that and it's not something

921
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,280
most people ever explicitly say, but it is sort of

922
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,639
absorbed wisdom is that the here and now is what matters, right,

923
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:54,679
what you can touch, what you can that is the

924
00:49:56,039 --> 00:49:59,880
that is of prime prime value and you know ald

925
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,320
you know, values are you know, these kind of higher

926
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:09,440
things are they're hobbling And yeah, sure that that prism

927
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:12,599
has its uses, right, that can be a useful analytical tool.

928
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,960
But I think that ultimately, when we look at hope

929
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:18,880
and kind of like a sense is like one of

930
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,079
the you know, the cardinal virtues, it's like, well, you

931
00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:25,360
sort of need that to exist, you know, like the

932
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,119
the example of like, right, the the the rat trapped

933
00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:30,519
in the bucket, like it will keep swimming until it

934
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:32,960
can't anymore. And you can look at that as this

935
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:35,960
kind of like great, you know, statement on futility, or

936
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,159
you can say, well, like no, that is the biological drive, right,

937
00:50:39,199 --> 00:50:42,679
That is the reason that America is a country because

938
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,639
people had, you know, a certain set of hope. They decided, well,

939
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,199
you know, I'll get on a wooden boat across three

940
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,360
thousand miles of extremely dangerous uh you know ocean. Oh

941
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,320
and then when I get there, I've got a rifle

942
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,159
and it's me versus a continent of you know, people

943
00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:01,840
who want to scout me. Well it's like yeah, you

944
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,760
could again, like that requires you know, a certain bravery

945
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,719
and hope to it. And I was actually just talking

946
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,119
to this is relevant, I promise to Nick Griffin, Right,

947
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:20,719
involved in the BNP, a kind of old school British nationalists,

948
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,760
and he made much the same point where he's like,

949
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,519
look like, if you view your life exclusively as kind

950
00:51:26,519 --> 00:51:30,599
of a financial balance sheet, there are there any number

951
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:32,800
of things that you won't do, that you won't value,

952
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,719
that you need to in order to have a culture,

953
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,960
to be a bearer of culture, and sort of past that.

954
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:40,159
For for Ince, he was talking about kids, England is

955
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,960
ruinously expensive and he's like, well, like I if I

956
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,159
did the math on it, I never would have done

957
00:51:46,199 --> 00:51:48,000
this right, it would have I would have been much

958
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:54,199
richer had I not. But my genes carry on, right,

959
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,719
there are people related to me who will carry on

960
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:01,039
into the future with certain you of culture, a certain

961
00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:04,119
view of you know, what is important, and that matters

962
00:52:04,119 --> 00:52:08,719
more than that kind of you know, financial calculation. And

963
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,360
I think that ultimately that is an expression of hope.

964
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:13,519
And so you know when we say that, like what

965
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:15,119
do you think of hope, it's like, well, and this

966
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:17,000
is a horrible podcasting answer, but I'll give it to

967
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,119
you anyway. It's like, what do you mean?

968
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 5: Right?

969
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,639
Speaker 9: Because again, like there is that kind of what the

970
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,519
you know, the Zoomers say like hopium. Right, you're smoking opium.

971
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:28,280
You've just got this vain idea that you know Trump

972
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:33,519
will save you, or you know the revolution will save you, you

973
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,199
know the crack up will save you. Well, that's obviously stupid. Clearly,

974
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,800
you know, people have been making those arguments for hundreds

975
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,760
of years, and the revolutions we got were by and

976
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,159
large completely and totally emiserating events for everyone involved. You know,

977
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:52,840
look at France, look at Russia, you know the Germans,

978
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:59,000
like in any instance, right and so, and actually I

979
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,119
should be clear, I should be it should be I

980
00:53:01,159 --> 00:53:03,239
was talking about the eighteen forty eight ers, so you know,

981
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,400
you German history buffs, don't jump down my throat.

982
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:06,599
Speaker 4: Uh.

983
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,639
Speaker 9: But again, like it's it's one hope in what and

984
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,760
what time of hope? What kind of hope? Rather, I

985
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,239
guess it's this sort of you know, the operative there

986
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,800
by the way, this is a bad habit. But you

987
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,760
interviewers I've interviewed quite a number of my coworkers, right,

988
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:25,960
are always very good at this. You end up judo

989
00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:28,559
flipping me into talking the entire time I'm.

990
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 7: Trying not to be talking to try I'm trying not

991
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,760
to you know, and I was like, I'm like, man,

992
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:36,159
I'm trying not to be to be that guy, but

993
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:39,360
it's just a tendency. And for all the more recent

994
00:53:39,519 --> 00:53:41,159
and all the more reason you got to come on

995
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,119
my show because I'm like, I'm like holding back my

996
00:53:44,199 --> 00:53:46,440
questions because it's like, all right, this is not my gig,

997
00:53:46,639 --> 00:53:48,280
this is not my this is not my this is

998
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:49,400
not my show.

999
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 9: But I did it one hundred percent. I'll we can

1000
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:56,159
do some scheduling off there. There's no reason why people

1001
00:53:56,199 --> 00:53:58,000
have to listen to us go back and forth with

1002
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:01,400
random dates. But we're coming up on the hour. I

1003
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,920
wanted to give you a chance first to sort of

1004
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,039
respond to that question of hope if you will, and

1005
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:10,159
then also obviously before we wrap up, tell people where

1006
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:10,840
they can find you.

1007
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,079
Speaker 7: Well, I think I think there's you know, there's different

1008
00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:16,639
definitions of hope, right, and and this is one of

1009
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:19,880
the things that uh, you know, I I look forward

1010
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,599
to talking talking to you next week on my show

1011
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,719
or you know, whenever we decide. Uh. And people like

1012
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:31,360
Will and people like John Carter, Ben Kellerin's another one.

1013
00:54:31,519 --> 00:54:34,920
I don't know if you've connected with Ben, you know,

1014
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,360
I'll just send you his information. Uh, you know, my

1015
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,559
friend Matt Smith and Iruguay, he wrote a book with

1016
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:44,719
Doug Casey about his son Maximum called The Preparation. So

1017
00:54:45,159 --> 00:54:47,960
you know, so to that is a hope to where

1018
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,039
you know there's there's plans, right, there's a plan in place,

1019
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,360
you're doing something. So yeah, there's different ways of interpretation hope.

1020
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:56,800
But when I make fun of it, I just you know,

1021
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,760
the people that are that were hoping that like rfk

1022
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:07,440
Elon Tulsea, Gabber, Trump, jd Vance, Marco Rubio, We're going

1023
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,679
to be the Avengers and just save everything and they

1024
00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:12,320
could just go back to the lived lifeless before because

1025
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,519
that's not happening. I mean, I think you've got the

1026
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:17,800
indication since twenty twenty life has not gone back to

1027
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,760
what it was before that and it's not going to.

1028
00:55:21,199 --> 00:55:25,199
So that's where you know that kind of my you know,

1029
00:55:25,679 --> 00:55:30,519
there's you can interpret hope in different ways, and yeah,

1030
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:33,239
so I make fun of hope. That's i'd make fun of.

1031
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,920
More's the boomer, the Fox News watchers, the ones they

1032
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,119
haven't had the awakening yet of kind of where we

1033
00:55:40,159 --> 00:55:42,840
are and they're still being the information.

1034
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 9: So obviously you've mentioned coffee and mic podcast. People can

1035
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,079
find it on substack as well as YouTube, and then

1036
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,639
you have your Twitter as well.

1037
00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 7: Did I miss anything, Yeah, myn Ex, Instagram, Coffee and

1038
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,960
of mic, substack, YouTube Rumble, and then you can Downloa

1039
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,800
on Apple Audio on Apple Spotify and yeah, I'd appreciate you.

1040
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:06,599
Appreciate you having me on.

1041
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:10,559
Speaker 9: Sure thing, man, I'll be sure to put those links

1042
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:12,320
down in the description. As far as my stuff, the

1043
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:17,159
Jay Burtons Show again, all those same platforms. Basically, this

1044
00:56:17,199 --> 00:56:19,480
is what I do. It's my full time job. If

1045
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:20,800
you want to throw me a few bucks a month

1046
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,079
on Patreon, Substack or gum Road, get the episodes early

1047
00:56:24,119 --> 00:56:26,760
and ad free. I know the ads are irritating, but

1048
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,440
it's kind of expensive to live and so I kind

1049
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,360
of need to do it, so I appreciate that. You

1050
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,280
can also check out our sponsor, Axios Remote Fitness Coaching.

1051
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,239
JD is very good at what he does. I use

1052
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,920
his product four days a week and I really like it,

1053
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,199
so be sure to head over to him if you

1054
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:47,559
have any questions about that. Again, Mike, it was a

1055
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:48,960
ton of fun, man. I appreciate it.

1056
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 7: I look forward to it. Thanks for having me on.

1057
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,360
I look forward to speaking to you on my show

1058
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,559
very soon. Thanks Jack.

1059
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 9: Everyone at home, keep your head up, good night.

1060
00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:32,159
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1062
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1063
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1064
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1068
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