Speaker 1: Welcome to Moving Conversations, a podcast for movement professionals, by
Speaker 1: movement professionals. If you coach, train, or teach movement, pilates
Speaker 1: or fitness, then this podcast is for you. With more
Speaker 1: than sixty years of experience and fitness and pilates, your host,
Speaker 1: Brian Ritchie and Norse Saint John explored to science of
Speaker 1: human movement, diving deep into the backs, myths, and common misconceptions,
Speaker 1: hoping to spark thought and conversation about how we view
Speaker 1: fitness and movement. Now let's jump into Moving Conversations and
Speaker 1: welcome back to Moving Conversations. I'm Brian Richie joining me
Speaker 1: as always ignors and John more in Nora. How you
Speaker 1: doing very well?
Speaker 2: Brian. I have to say it is beautiful weather here,
Speaker 2: and I live in California. One of the wonderful things
Speaker 2: about the Sacramento Valley where I live is that the
Speaker 2: food is amazing. And I have a next door neighbor
Speaker 2: who has a peach tree. Oh and she just brought
Speaker 2: me over this bag of like perfectly ripe peaches and
Speaker 2: they are just the like the best peaches I have
Speaker 2: had in years. They're not rotten like usually peaches you
Speaker 2: get them, and they are they never ripen or they rot.
Speaker 2: And there's a rare one that fits off. It's ripe
Speaker 2: and ready and it's good. Doesn't happen that way, but
Speaker 2: every single one of these has been perfect. So I'm
Speaker 2: having a peachy summer.
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that's one of my Grapes and peaches are
Speaker 1: two of my biggest weaknesses for fruits. I literally lived
Speaker 1: on peaches and we had a tangerine tree down the
Speaker 1: street one entire summer. That's pretty much all I ate
Speaker 1: during the day were those two fruits because I could
Speaker 1: get them and they weren't that expensive back then. You're
Speaker 1: right now hard to find ones that are just right,
Speaker 1: and you just have to sort of go with whatever
Speaker 1: they've got and hopefully, like a banana, you know, you
Speaker 1: sort of you buy them one day and they're green
Speaker 1: and wait two days and suddenly they're no longer any good.
Speaker 1: So well you kind of have to time it just right. Well,
Speaker 1: they wonder if.
Speaker 2: They ripen without rotting, like sometimes they just go bad.
Speaker 2: They go from hard to bed, like they didn't even
Speaker 2: go through a moment of goodness in there. But again,
Speaker 2: she little is across the street. She brought the bag.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this look good, and then then I
Speaker 2: opened up the bag and like.
Speaker 1: The smell that smell, Oh my god, best thing ever. Nice. Nice. Well,
Speaker 1: today we have a topic. Before we get to it,
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Speaker 1: through email Moving Combos at gmail dot com. The best
Speaker 1: Waiting in touch with us. So today's topic. This came
Speaker 1: up this week because I think I mentioned before a
Speaker 1: couple months ago I had a surgical procedure, and guess what,
Speaker 1: I had another one on Monday, this one on my
Speaker 1: foot infection removed the big toenail. Horrible, horrible, horrible. Not
Speaker 1: going into details, that's really bad, but let's suffice is
Speaker 1: to say, I'm hobbling around.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: One of my employees starts calling me tenderfoot. So I
Speaker 1: was like, yes, that's me. I'm tenderfoot today for a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks and what But the thought process was, Okay,
Speaker 1: when do you start doing something, recovery recovery from illness,
Speaker 1: recovery from surgery, recovery from major surgery versus minor surgery,
Speaker 1: all of these type of things. When do you start
Speaker 1: working out again? When do you start moving again? What's appropriate?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know about you ANDAR, but I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of people ask me, you know, I was
Speaker 1: sick all of last week. When is it good?
Speaker 2: Should I come in?
Speaker 1: Should I come in?
Speaker 2: Come in? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yep, you know, and you know, same thing with surgery.
Speaker 1: I mean I've had some people literally I had this
Speaker 1: on Monday. They would have come in on Tuesday with
Speaker 1: an open wound and everything, and I'm thinking, what are
Speaker 1: you doing here? So I thought that'd be an interesting
Speaker 1: topic for us to discuss.
Speaker 2: Especially because for you and I, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: like we're training people from marathons. We're not assuming that
Speaker 2: they're going to have to run, you know, five miles
Speaker 2: when the first day they come in. We have in
Speaker 2: our toolkit and certainly in the Ploti Studio Toolkit and
Speaker 2: certainly in your personal training slash POLATEI Studio Toolkit, you
Speaker 2: can start people anywhere, right, You can start people at
Speaker 2: anybody part, at any level. And one of the things
Speaker 2: that I always like to bring up, and this is
Speaker 2: an old study that I don't have the reference for,
Speaker 2: but I'll look it up if you need me to.
Speaker 2: They did a study with a bunch of young men.
Speaker 2: These were college age men, just many years ago, and
Speaker 2: they basically put them to bed for three weeks and
Speaker 2: the goal was to see how much how much deconditioning
Speaker 2: they came. You know, it happened in three weeks for
Speaker 2: these again twenty somethings or eighteen year old twenty eighteen
Speaker 2: to twenty year olds and they found out that it
Speaker 2: was three weeks of bed rest, it took them a
Speaker 2: minimum of three months to return to their previous level
Speaker 2: of fitness. Yeah, okay, so one week of not doing
Speaker 2: anything meant they needed really like three to four weeks
Speaker 2: of getting back to their regular activity level to return
Speaker 2: their previous level of fitness. And then they did the
Speaker 2: same thing with this group of people when they were
Speaker 2: in their i think late forties, early fifties. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure how they got them back together again, but suppose
Speaker 2: they did. And in that group again, they put them
Speaker 2: to bed for three weeks, which is probably malpractice. You
Speaker 2: can actually do, but a idea that was a bad idea,
Speaker 2: and for many of them they never returned to their
Speaker 2: previous level of fitness. And if those who did, it
Speaker 2: took a year. So you know what that said to
Speaker 2: me at the time when I first heard this was
Speaker 2: many many years ago. And again, even if this isn't
Speaker 2: I think, well it is. It was based on an
Speaker 2: actual study, but it's also just what you experience. If
Speaker 2: you really don't do anything for a period of time,
Speaker 2: your conditioning can be severely affected by that. We're talking
Speaker 2: total bed rest. We're not talking like keeping some things going.
Speaker 2: So when I think about recovery, and certainly at Saint Francis,
Speaker 2: when I was working with all the sports medicine doctors
Speaker 2: there and going for a lot of the conference I
Speaker 2: went to, they really took a very I would almost
Speaker 2: say aggressive approach and get something moving as soon as
Speaker 2: possible was kind of their basic mantrap. If you had
Speaker 2: a knee surgery, move your other leg, move your core,
Speaker 2: move your arm, get some circulation going. All those things
Speaker 2: help with healing.
Speaker 1: M It's really difficult, I think for a lot of
Speaker 1: people who go through things like this. And I'm going
Speaker 1: to use myself as as an example. My surgery, and
Speaker 1: it was abdominal surgery, and it was pretty significant, and
Speaker 1: I had a lot of complications in pain afterward, and
Speaker 1: I didn't I wasn't able to do much of anything
Speaker 1: for almost a month. Right by that by a month,
Speaker 1: I could barely walk a flight of stairs without being winded.
Speaker 1: And I was doing I mean, I could get on
Speaker 1: an elliptical for a half an hour without blinking at
Speaker 1: a high intensity level. My heart rate didn't raise that
Speaker 1: much one or two flights of stairs and I'm just dying.
Speaker 1: And I thought Oh my gosh, you lose it so
Speaker 1: quickly and it does take a while to come back.
Speaker 1: Because once I realized that, I said, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: care how I feel. I got to at least get
Speaker 1: some movement going and start something. But as you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes when you feel awful, the last thing you really
Speaker 1: want to do is move You just want to sit
Speaker 1: down and just be like, oh woe is me? Because
Speaker 1: let's face it, pain makes you a little depressed and
Speaker 1: you start feeling sorry for yourself, and depression leads to
Speaker 1: lack of movement and whatnot for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And I was feeling that way. I'll be the first
Speaker 1: to admit it. Man, I didn't want to do things,
Speaker 1: but you got to force yourself sometimes at a certain point,
Speaker 1: you know, to at least get something going. Even after
Speaker 1: my foot. You'll appreciate this. I called, leaving the hospital,
Speaker 1: call my wife and just let her know that I
Speaker 1: was thinking of stopping back at work, and I work
Speaker 1: a half an hour away, but I have decided to
Speaker 1: come home. But I told her, you know, I was
Speaker 1: thinking about going, and she said, if you say to
Speaker 1: the gym, I'm going to kill you. And I'm thinking, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, in the past. That is something that I
Speaker 1: can easily hear myself saying. It's like, but I could
Speaker 1: do other stuff, you know, but I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I've decided I'm coming home for today. But then today
Speaker 1: I was stir crazy. So yes, I had all the time.
Speaker 1: I went in the other room, I got on the
Speaker 1: spine fitter, I got on the phone roll or I
Speaker 1: did mobility work. I did a little bit of core work,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever I can do just to get my
Speaker 1: body moving because I felt sluggish. I felt like my
Speaker 1: body wasn't wasn't the way it should be. I still
Speaker 1: don't feel one hundred percent and the rest of my body,
Speaker 1: but I feel better than I did.
Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of things in that, right. So
Speaker 2: some of it is and I've brought to so many
Speaker 2: clients with these, this transition from inactivity for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: post surgical illness, whatever it is, back to activity. And
Speaker 2: and there's a psychological component, which, as you said, is
Speaker 2: pretty profound. There's the there's sort of the depression of
Speaker 2: lack of motivation. Is also the fear, you know, if
Speaker 2: somebody especially has something like a back problem or a
Speaker 2: neck problem, something very central in their body. Uh, Their
Speaker 2: fear of movement can be really we're talking about this before,
Speaker 2: but can be really profound. And many people's reaction to pain,
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, after surgery, after illness or whatever
Speaker 2: is just okay, I just won't do that, Like I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm checking that off the list. Ye uh. And
Speaker 2: that's a really common reaction, which isn't well, isn't always,
Speaker 2: I would say, is mostly not the right answer.
Speaker 1: And we have the right I have a client who
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago pulled a muscle in her back doing
Speaker 1: a rowing type exercise. She was working with a trainer
Speaker 1: who put wave too much weight on a seated row
Speaker 1: machine and just kept yelling at her to keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going, and she pulled a muscle. She basically, I
Speaker 1: believe pulled a rhomboid. She may have even you know,
Speaker 1: rotated a rib, but she had a lot of pain
Speaker 1: for a while. She still doesn't like doing rows, and
Speaker 1: what we do I have to put half of the
Speaker 1: weight that she thinks she can do and slowly work
Speaker 1: up because there's still that fear of that exercise equaled
Speaker 1: pain and it's hard to convince your brain otherwise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly I've put several clients I can
Speaker 2: think of with that same story. So one of the
Speaker 2: things that I talk to you a bunch of things.
Speaker 2: I've got a bunch of case studies and things of this.
Speaker 2: One thing that I start with, for example, is for
Speaker 2: all my women who are pregnant right and are having
Speaker 2: a baby, especially if it's their first baby. Many people
Speaker 2: say that, you know, especially if you've had a C section,
Speaker 2: that you want to be you want to kind of
Speaker 2: let the seutres heal, which is usually about a six
Speaker 2: to eight week mark before you do anything particularly strenuous
Speaker 2: on the abdomen. Okay, so that makes sense. But what
Speaker 2: I've said to those women is that's great. Or even
Speaker 2: just after, you know, after the baby's born, if it's
Speaker 2: a vaginal delivery, is think about just some simple core
Speaker 2: work like engage your transfer subdominance, just pull it in
Speaker 2: and release and pull it in and release. Do some
Speaker 2: standing work, do some like if you're in the reformer,
Speaker 2: do some simple footwork, do some feed in straps. Maybe
Speaker 2: I can get a little tricky on the pelvis work.
Speaker 2: You know, It's like there's always things you can do
Speaker 2: that for most people most of the time, like you're
Speaker 2: experiencing this morning will make you feel better. And again
Speaker 2: it's like there's that activation energy. You don't want to
Speaker 2: do it, but once you do it, you feel better.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's really convincing clients like, I know you're
Speaker 2: gonna hate this, You're gonna not want to do this,
Speaker 2: but I promise you you'll feel better after like ten minutes.
Speaker 2: So let's just get over that hump and then go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's always a philosophy that was put to
Speaker 1: me by a professor of mine that said, Okay, you
Speaker 1: only have so much energy too, you know, to live,
Speaker 1: and if your body is trying to recover from something,
Speaker 1: do you want to go only give half of your
Speaker 1: energy to recovering from your injury and the other half
Speaker 1: to recovering from your workout or whatever else you're doing,
Speaker 1: or do you want one hundred percent to go to
Speaker 1: your recovery from the surgery or illness or whatever. And
Speaker 1: that's that was always something that sort of laid in
Speaker 1: the back of my mind that I'm like, it makes
Speaker 1: some sense that, Okay, I do want to recover as
Speaker 1: quickly as possible. I do want my body to heal,
Speaker 1: but I also believe that there's circulation that's going to
Speaker 1: occur when you do get your body in motion and
Speaker 1: you can avoid the area. You know, I don't have
Speaker 1: to use my right foot right now. I can do
Speaker 1: seated stuff. I can do lying down things. I can
Speaker 1: do all of that. So there's there was always that
Speaker 1: sort of mentality in my mind fighting, you know, two
Speaker 1: sides of my brain saying, well, I still want people
Speaker 1: to recover, but movement is good and it's going to
Speaker 1: create better recovery and better healing.
Speaker 2: Well, I think for me, the falsehood there is based
Speaker 2: on that previous study I talked about with you know,
Speaker 2: the young men. Is is rest is an interesting concept, right,
Speaker 2: We often think and I think about one of my
Speaker 2: relative's voice in my head, Oh honey, you work so hard.
Speaker 2: Just sit down, like it was always every time to
Speaker 2: the house. Oh just sit down, relax, Yeah, take a
Speaker 2: load off. Recover is like the thing being that that's
Speaker 2: a way to regain your energy. And you know, and
Speaker 2: I know that in fact, if I rest too much,
Speaker 2: my energy goes down, yes, right, like particularly like that
Speaker 2: real real rest, real like like that whole idea that
Speaker 2: you only have X amount of energy. You know, actually
Speaker 2: that's yes, in some major way that may be true.
Speaker 2: But on any individual moment, right, I can build up
Speaker 2: my energy, you know, even at this point in my
Speaker 2: life being an older person, like I can give myself
Speaker 2: more energy by doing stuff, or I can give myself
Speaker 2: less energy by not doing anything. So you know, really
Speaker 2: that that equivalence is more like, how do you and
Speaker 2: this is very individual, how do you keep you know,
Speaker 2: build your energy up because your energy will also help
Speaker 2: your recovery without depleting you. And that's that's the funny line. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, for I think of many of my super
Speaker 2: two per super type A high achieving athletic clients, their
Speaker 2: tendency and recovery was to do way too much and
Speaker 2: set themselves back. Yes, you know, they come out of surgery,
Speaker 2: they're like, I'm great, I'm fine, I'm going to just
Speaker 2: go right back to my workout, and then two weeks
Speaker 2: later they've actually reinjured the area or cause themselves more
Speaker 2: trouble and then they really literally have to stop right
Speaker 2: for a period of time because they've just overdone things.
Speaker 2: That's one option. The other option is like, oh, I'll
Speaker 2: just wait until I feel one hundred percent perfect and
Speaker 2: then I'll go back to what I was doing. The
Speaker 2: problem with that is if you don't do anything, you
Speaker 2: may never get to one hundred percent perfect because your
Speaker 2: body needs circulation, needs energy, needs blood flow to heal.
Speaker 2: So it's a fine lines there. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: balancing that we're trying to do there, and.
Speaker 1: It's hard to conventure your client of that, especially if
Speaker 1: they've experienced I don't know about you with yeah, but
Speaker 1: for me, I have a tendency when I get injured
Speaker 1: that I almost want to blast the area because I
Speaker 1: want it better now. I want to just get this better,
Speaker 1: and I know what to do because this is our field.
Speaker 1: You know. My rotator cuff was flared up, you know,
Speaker 1: six eight months ago, a year ago, whatever it was,
Speaker 1: and it does take time to heal. But as soon
Speaker 1: as it would start feeling a little better, I would
Speaker 1: immediately start trying to do things that I know maybe
Speaker 1: should I shouldn't, you know, but I'm feeling better. I'm
Speaker 1: feeling good, so why not try it? And then it
Speaker 1: sets you back a little bit. But I'm getting so
Speaker 1: bored with those rehab exercises and I think I'm a
Speaker 1: little better, but I also have to remind myself, I'm
Speaker 1: not twenty five anymore. So maybe my body does take
Speaker 1: a little bit longer. Whether I like to admit it
Speaker 1: or not, maybe it does take a little bit longer
Speaker 1: for that connective tissue to begin the healing process and
Speaker 1: for things to you know, fully recover. And sometimes it
Speaker 1: does require more time than I think an athlete or
Speaker 1: someone who has done athletics or dance or a high
Speaker 1: level of activity really wants to give themselves. Yes, you know,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean, yes, players are male.
Speaker 2: This is the kind of under me come up to
Speaker 2: all the time. You know. It's like it's like a
Speaker 2: friend of mine has had some knee pain, actually wted.
Speaker 2: My clients set some knee pain, and it is a
Speaker 2: fine line for them, like I recognize. So first it
Speaker 2: was like, well, let's just rest it and see how
Speaker 2: we go. Things did not get better. Then they went
Speaker 2: on a bicycle trip with their husband. They hadn't really
Speaker 2: been biking much because they're knee hurt, and you know,
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, well I'm going to join the crowd.
Speaker 2: And they did some biking and after two days their
Speaker 2: he felt a whole lot better. But you couldn't guarantee that,
Speaker 2: like it could have just caused iritation, swelled everything up.
Speaker 2: There could have been a worse shape. And so it
Speaker 2: really is one of those things where every individual, in
Speaker 2: every circumstance, you know, kind of push it a bit,
Speaker 2: see how far you go, and then maybe maybe you
Speaker 2: have to step back, But you have to find that
Speaker 2: line of how it's like, how is that path of recovery?
Speaker 2: Is it a slow path? Does it need a lot
Speaker 2: of rest breaks or and it be kind of more
Speaker 2: aggressive like you, Brian, I also like, oh, something's bothering me.
Speaker 2: I'm going to work it. You know, this is like
Speaker 2: my ne hears oka, I'm going to just do a
Speaker 2: bunch of quad says. I'm going to like do some squaws,
Speaker 2: Like that's just my natural habit, which, like you, sometimes
Speaker 2: is the right answer. Like oftentimes for me, more often
Speaker 2: than not, it has been the right answer. But occasionally
Speaker 2: it was the wrong answer and I just needed to stop.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know that until I'd actually tried something
Speaker 2: and gone, oh, you know, let's let's pull back. And
Speaker 2: and I think that's that is the challenge with recovery
Speaker 2: from from all of these situations is how do you
Speaker 2: figure out when to start, how much to start, and
Speaker 2: so much of our job is to monitor that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so many of our clients, that's our job is like Okay,
Speaker 2: here's the red light, here's the green light. Let's let's
Speaker 2: let's push this. And then okay, when am I going
Speaker 2: to push I'm gonna push you just a little bit
Speaker 2: this time. We'll see how you do right next day,
Speaker 2: day after, they come back in, four days later or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. How'd you do?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: I was pretty good that night, little store, the next day,
Speaker 2: pretty good by the day after. Okay, that's a little
Speaker 2: bit of a reaction, but I think we can continue
Speaker 2: with that level. Like we've moved it up a notch.
Speaker 2: Let's stick with that. See how we go. Then you
Speaker 2: take the next step up right, and it's that slow
Speaker 2: progressive feedback. Did it work? Did it not work?
Speaker 1: That just goes on and on, And that's kind of
Speaker 1: what makes us sort of the body detectives that we are,
Speaker 1: is that we have to continually look at what seems
Speaker 1: to be working. I'm going through this with a client
Speaker 1: right now. She had some major major problems for a
Speaker 1: long time, and we would try something and it wouldn't work.
Speaker 1: We'd try something, it wouldn't work, and it would set
Speaker 1: her back. And she went took some time off because
Speaker 1: she went on vacation, she did it whatever. She was
Speaker 1: away for a good month and she came back and
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I said, I think now's the time
Speaker 1: for us to start back on this. I said, but
Speaker 1: we're going to do one thing. I want to limit
Speaker 1: the variables first.
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, agreed.
Speaker 1: One exercise, that's it, and on your own, you're going
Speaker 1: to do this no more than two other times this week,
Speaker 1: so three times in seven days. And they say, oh,
Speaker 1: that's all. That's it. Because her body seemed to be
Speaker 1: very reactive to things that were happening when we were
Speaker 1: trying to push it a little bit, and she's someone
Speaker 1: who wants to push and wants to get better. So
Speaker 1: I said, okay, the next week, how did you feel afterward? Well,
Speaker 1: it was still a little painful. I so was it worse?
Speaker 1: That was the key? Was it worse? Did it make
Speaker 1: it feel worse?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: All right, good, you still do that exercise this week,
Speaker 1: but we're going to add one more thing in today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was something simple, and again each session we
Speaker 1: added one thing, or each week we added one more
Speaker 1: thing to the pile, until they're doing more and more
Speaker 1: and more and their bodies able to tolerate it. I
Speaker 1: think with so many people who want who are just
Speaker 1: sick and tired of being hurt, I just want to
Speaker 1: do what I was doing and do what I want
Speaker 1: to do, and so they do too much and then
Speaker 1: they get set back. Like I did with my shoulder.
Speaker 1: I felt great for the last six weeks. This feels great,
Speaker 1: and I do too much and I go back to
Speaker 1: an old workout and think that felt great, and afterwards
Speaker 1: I'm like, that was awesome. It didn't hurt when I
Speaker 1: did it, fantastic, And the next day I'm like, holy crap,
Speaker 1: what did I do? I feel beat up, and then
Speaker 1: it's another three to four weeks of nursing it. It's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: So there is that fine line. So I say limit
Speaker 1: the number of variables. That's sort of Stage one for
Speaker 1: me is limit the variable time for one thing at
Speaker 1: a time m hm.
Speaker 2: And then seeah they respond yes and if you absolutely
Speaker 2: I mean, and that's a wonderful thing about what we
Speaker 2: do as opposed to what other practitioners get to do.
Speaker 2: We can say, Okay, we're going to just leave that
Speaker 2: ankle be right for or whatever. We're going to leave
Speaker 2: that shoulder bat. We're going to work on your other side.
Speaker 2: We're going to work on your legs, we work on
Speaker 2: your core, do all kinds of things that don't involve
Speaker 2: that area. So you're still getting circulation, you're still getting stuff,
Speaker 2: but you're not stressing that. So I think, and I
Speaker 2: think that's really a lot of our role is exactly
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, is guiding them from one step,
Speaker 2: checking on that step, so you know, add a variable,
Speaker 2: see how they respond. If that was good, then add
Speaker 2: one more variable, see how they respond, and then slowly
Speaker 2: build them back up. And like you personally, not just
Speaker 2: your clients, but like you, so many of us, and
Speaker 2: this is something I think about a lot, have the
Speaker 2: mentality of we are still our twenty something self or
Speaker 2: our thirty something self.
Speaker 1: You nevern me otherwise.
Speaker 2: We are still that body that could recover within minutes
Speaker 2: and could do X, workout whatever it is, right Like,
Speaker 2: that's just just two we are. That's our internal ima
Speaker 2: of ourselves. It's always like at least twenty years behind.
Speaker 2: For most of us, twenty years behind when we actually
Speaker 2: are like twenty years younger than we actually are. And
Speaker 2: so there's that assumption too, like, well I should just
Speaker 2: you know, I could just do this, and to put
Speaker 2: a finer point on what you're saying, it feels good
Speaker 2: at the time a whole lot of Like there's some
Speaker 2: things that hurt more when you work them, there are
Speaker 2: many things that hurt less. When there's circulation and there's
Speaker 2: mobility and there's some of that stuff A lot of
Speaker 2: times that decreases the pain from a fascial perspective.
Speaker 1: You increase properate.
Speaker 2: Reception, you decrease no susception. So you know there's that
Speaker 2: balance too. But it's what happens, like again, on the
Speaker 2: drive home that night the next day, that's when you
Speaker 2: know whether they reacted or not. And so that's why
Speaker 2: I like, I take the feedback at the moment, but
Speaker 2: I don't get too excited about it because it's easy
Speaker 2: as the beginning teacher to go, oh, you feel better, great,
Speaker 2: let's let's let's keep going. And you're like, okay, put
Speaker 2: the rakes on, that's enough, move on to something else.
Speaker 2: How they do that night, how they do the next day,
Speaker 2: If that all went fine, do it again. If there
Speaker 2: is trouble, back it down one step. This is that
Speaker 2: delicate dance of recovery for everybody.
Speaker 1: And that is something that we have to remind ourselves
Speaker 1: about a lot of times, just getting them to move.
Speaker 1: I have one client that every time she leaves, and
Speaker 1: I do mean every time she leaves, I feel so
Speaker 1: much better than when I walked in. And she's prett
Speaker 1: knee replacement. You know, she's got you know, she's got
Speaker 1: a bunch of things that she's gonna have to deal
Speaker 1: with them mentally in life. And she's in her early sixties.
Speaker 1: But every time she leaves, she's thanking me like I've
Speaker 1: performed a miracle. And sometimes you got to take the
Speaker 1: ego out of it because it feels really good at
Speaker 1: the time. You're like a haha, I did my job,
Speaker 1: and I'm always like I'm so glad, I'm glad your
Speaker 1: body responded, well, I'm not putting it on me. I'm
Speaker 1: putting it on their body. They're the ones that actually moved.
Speaker 1: I may have set them upright, I may have put
Speaker 1: them in the right position. I may have pointed them
Speaker 1: in the right direction, but it's their body that actually
Speaker 1: did the movement, and I want to check in on
Speaker 1: them a day or two later and say, how did
Speaker 1: it feel afterward? Oh, it's feeling better fine, or you know,
Speaker 1: that night it was kind of achy, but today it's
Speaker 1: not bad. It's okay. So maybe we were a little aggressive,
Speaker 1: but if it's not bad the next day, maybe we were.
Speaker 1: Maybe that is the level we can stay at, you know,
Speaker 1: and we can just see how their body responds. But
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is take the feedback
Speaker 1: in sort of listen to it critically. Let go of
Speaker 1: the flowers that someone's trying to give you, because everybody
Speaker 1: wants to praise us, and that's wonderful, but put that aside,
Speaker 1: but listen to the other part and really try and
Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, this hurt for two days afterward, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a little too much. Yep, So what did I do? Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to do half of that yep, and see
Speaker 1: how that worked, or you know, a third whatever it is,
Speaker 1: whatever your number is, and you can figure out based
Speaker 1: on the client in front of you, their age, their recovery,
Speaker 1: all of that. And we've worked with clients long enough
Speaker 1: that eventually you kind of figure out with a client, Oh,
Speaker 1: this person recovers fairly quickly, or oh my gosh, it's
Speaker 1: been nine months and they still haven't recovered yet, Holy MACRONI.
Speaker 1: So sometimes it does take time, but when you get
Speaker 1: to know the client, you can figure that out sometimes
Speaker 1: how much to push, how much to pull back?
Speaker 2: And that is that is the story, right, that is
Speaker 2: absol the story there of how you how you you
Speaker 2: moderate and guide you're really guiding your client from one
Speaker 2: state to another. And one of the other things this
Speaker 2: has been coming up a lot in some of teaching.
Speaker 2: I've been doing the difference. We talked a little bit
Speaker 2: the other day, the difference between managing and healing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, so many of us have little things
Speaker 2: that bother us, and we just they're not bad enough
Speaker 2: to stop us from doing much. You know, a little
Speaker 2: low back pay in the morning, a little niece, stiffness,
Speaker 2: we do this or that, So we just manage it.
Speaker 2: We don't really pay attention to it. We don't actually
Speaker 2: get in there and do the thing that might actually
Speaker 2: make it get all the way better. And so sometimes
Speaker 2: what I find with my clients with recovery, as I'm
Speaker 2: working on that line, I'm really ideally in my idealized universe,
Speaker 2: trying to aim them towards healing, towards full recovery of
Speaker 2: whatever that thing is. But you don't always get that, right.
Speaker 2: I'm sure any of you out there who over the
Speaker 2: age of about forty know that some things just kind
Speaker 2: of stay with you for periods of time. May eventually result,
Speaker 2: but sometimes they don't. You have an old knee injury
Speaker 2: that just you know, like you had a noniscus tear
Speaker 2: when you were young and never really healed it and
Speaker 2: worked really hard on it, and maybe that neil always
Speaker 2: a little cranky, right, Like we've got those things, some
Speaker 2: of us. So some of it too is how do
Speaker 2: we how do we just moderate and find get as
Speaker 2: good as we can, but also understand that sometimes you're
Speaker 2: managing the situation right, sometimes you're not going to get
Speaker 2: full of recovery. When that client come to grips with
Speaker 2: a managed situation as opposed to full recovery can be challenging,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you're really working on let's just take this
Speaker 2: one step at a time, see how far we can get.
Speaker 2: I always say I maintain hope no matter what, no
Speaker 2: matter what that client comes in with or what their
Speaker 2: doctor has told them they can expect. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to have There's no ceiling in my mind,
Speaker 2: there's no end point that is predetermined for what we're
Speaker 2: working on. We're going to keep working and see where
Speaker 2: we go, because I don't know everybody's capable of amazing things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: some clients, as you said, are really fast recovery. Some
Speaker 2: clients take forever. But I never say like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: done and this is over and you know, get used
Speaker 2: to it. I just don't ever say that.
Speaker 1: And there's something to be said about just staying in
Speaker 1: motion as well and finding out, figuring out what doesn't
Speaker 1: hurt and doing that. Yep, Because even though my shoulder
Speaker 1: was hurt, I thought, Okay, I can still do other things.
Speaker 1: My other arm works, my core works, my legs work,
Speaker 1: you know, everything else was fine. So sometimes it's really
Speaker 1: about Okay, I need to strengthen that. And there have
Speaker 1: been a number of studies in physical therapy that actually
Speaker 1: show working the other body part causes strengthening on the
Speaker 1: injured one, even if the injured one isn't doing much instability.
Speaker 1: There's neurologic, there's a lot of factors, and I've read
Speaker 1: through some of the studies, and I'll be honest with you,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense if I'm doing external rotation exercises
Speaker 1: with my right arm, but my left one is hurting,
Speaker 1: why the left one gets benefit. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I've read the studies, but it seems that there is
Speaker 1: something there neurologically that still creates some of those pathways
Speaker 1: to help it heal. And I think that that's sort
Speaker 1: of a fascinating thing as well, that we can say, look,
Speaker 1: there's so many other things we can do, and let's
Speaker 1: find those first, and we can even if we have
Speaker 1: to let that rest for the next few weeks, we
Speaker 1: can still find all the other things that do work
Speaker 1: and don't hurt and then begin to inch our way back.
Speaker 2: But just to refine that a little bit more like,
Speaker 2: there was, you know, one study where somebody was in
Speaker 2: or they had a whole group of people that were
Speaker 2: in an arm cast. Right, they like broke their femur,
Speaker 2: their humorous or their or their forearms or something, so
Speaker 2: they're in a cast so that arm cannot move for
Speaker 2: usually four to six weeks or whatever the situation was,
Speaker 2: and they had them doing full, a full arm workout
Speaker 2: on the other arm. And so they did, you know,
Speaker 2: two groups, one group that was doing the exercise, one
Speaker 2: group that wasn't, and they take the cast off and
Speaker 2: the group that was doing the exercises, that arm that
Speaker 2: was in the cast had a whole lot more strength
Speaker 2: than the other arm, right, so that it would like
Speaker 2: that simple. So and I tell that to clients all
Speaker 2: the time, and I use that, you know, as a
Speaker 2: metaphor for them or just as an example for them
Speaker 2: of Okay, well, you know your right legs in a
Speaker 2: cast right now, or your right legs had surgery and
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to do a lot of things. We're
Speaker 2: to work the left leg. Yeah, we're going to just
Speaker 2: make this a single one leg thing, and we're going
Speaker 2: to get that as strong as we can. Because that
Speaker 2: brain does mirror, like what's happening, what's happened on your
Speaker 2: right side, your brain kind of thinks about happening on
Speaker 2: the left side. Still sends the impulses to the muscle,
Speaker 2: still sends the motor control to the muscle, like that
Speaker 2: whole reaction is still there even if you can't actually
Speaker 2: move the thing. So that's a really important piece too
Speaker 2: that we can always use in recovery and use all
Speaker 2: the time like, well it's for the other.
Speaker 1: Part, yeah, and why not if the other part works,
Speaker 1: keep it strong, keep it strong as much as possible,
Speaker 1: figure out what you can do and have your body
Speaker 1: do that or your client's body do that. Now, I
Speaker 1: will say that depending on the injury, that that can
Speaker 1: sometimes dictate recovery time. For instance, we've talked about tendinitis
Speaker 1: and tendinosis very different than a broken bone or a
Speaker 1: sprained ligament, very different than a surgical procedure. You know,
Speaker 1: where you have an open wound, you don't want them
Speaker 1: necessarily have them coming into a gym or an environment
Speaker 1: where they could get an infection and things like that.
Speaker 1: You know, So there's always those those variables in that
Speaker 1: aspect too, saying Okay, maybe you do need a little
Speaker 1: bit more time to heal if you have a tendonitis,
Speaker 1: because all you're going to do is upset the tendon
Speaker 1: and maybe you need the anti inflammatory. You need to
Speaker 1: see the physician or the physical therapist. So let's us
Speaker 1: work on everything else. But that, you know, it's not
Speaker 1: as clear cut as let's say a broken arm where
Speaker 1: the cast comes off and then it's like Okay, I
Speaker 1: can work this again. That seems pretty clear cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And the tissue hasn't necessarily been affected so much,
Speaker 2: necessarily as much. Yeah yeah, exactly. And one of those
Speaker 2: things too, that I always think about with both the
Speaker 2: circumstances is how am I going to get that client
Speaker 2: to think more positively and to decrease the fear after
Speaker 2: an injury. And what I find is fear is a
Speaker 2: profoundly brain dominating emotion, So you know, and I always
Speaker 2: think about something really simple and kind of banal. If
Speaker 2: you're walking around the city, and I'm sure some of
Speaker 2: the men have had this experience, I'm sure many of
Speaker 2: the women have had this experience. And you get a
Speaker 2: blister in your heel right or your toe or something, right,
Speaker 2: You've got new shoes on, you're looking really hot, and
Speaker 2: you walk around like, ah, what is your brain doing
Speaker 2: with every step on my footers on my footers on
Speaker 2: my first Like your whole brain gets obsessed and gets
Speaker 2: taken over by this blister in the bottom of your
Speaker 2: foot or whatever it is, and you realize, like, this
Speaker 2: is not a life threatening situation, This is not this
Speaker 2: is actually really insignificant in the bigger like survival level thing,
Speaker 2: but your body response like it's a major deal. And
Speaker 2: I've had so many clients where they've got pain somewhere
Speaker 2: again in your case, left shoulder or or their foot,
Speaker 2: they got maybe a stress fracture in there, one of
Speaker 2: the metatarsals or something, and basically their whole body's going,
Speaker 2: I'm in pain and I shouldn't move right, like that's
Speaker 2: just the natural habit of the body. And so much
Speaker 2: as a psychological is like ouch, stop and that's where
Speaker 2: we go. And instead, if I have a client like that,
Speaker 2: and I really say, look, I understand that that's in
Speaker 2: pain and that's the loudest thing in your brain, but
Speaker 2: we're going to give your body the experience of moving
Speaker 2: other parts. You know. It's a distraction for one thing,
Speaker 2: which is pretty helpful for pain, and it's also helping
Speaker 2: them understand their body isn't broken. They've got things that
Speaker 2: work fine, and there are ways that they can really
Speaker 2: focus on something else. And that's also part of recovery,
Speaker 2: right is understanding, well, what works? You know, what can
Speaker 2: I do? And that often just reframing that to what
Speaker 2: can I do rather what can't I do? Is helpful
Speaker 2: psychologically and physically and in terms of program design.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And I've told the story before and I'll bring
Speaker 1: it up here again. Got a client who is in
Speaker 1: pain all the time, but if she has a hangnail,
Speaker 1: it's the end of the world. She's on a ten,
Speaker 1: no matter when, no matter what happens, she's on a ten.
Speaker 1: And I have her do a simple exercise and everything hurts.
Speaker 1: I can barely move my leg I can, and I'll
Speaker 1: have her march and she'll start telling me a story.
Speaker 1: And she's just talking a way and she's marching. No problem.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask her how it feels. If I ask
Speaker 1: her how it feels, oh, killing me, it's killing me.
Speaker 1: It's killing me. But as long as she's talking, I'm thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: how bad could it be killing you? If you're maintaining
Speaker 1: a normal voice, you don't sound stressed in your voice,
Speaker 1: your eyes aren't showing me signs of fear and tension
Speaker 1: and pain, then you're probably doing okay. And so sometimes
Speaker 1: you're right. It is all about distraction. It's just getting
Speaker 1: them to move and say, oh, this is gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with that part, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'll say something like that, and I'll say, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: it might is it part of the core. Yes, they
Speaker 1: might have a back thing. Okay, but I'll just say, nah,
Speaker 1: this is you could do this something else you're and
Speaker 1: they'll be like, oh okay, and then they'll do it
Speaker 1: with no problem. But if you but if you come
Speaker 1: at it with now, we're gonna try this careful, see
Speaker 1: how this is. Yes, we can create pain. I mean,
Speaker 1: for me, my thing with my toe, I wouldn't look.
Speaker 1: He gave me novacaine, he numbed it. I refuse to
Speaker 1: look because I know how strong the brain is, and
Speaker 1: I was afraid that I would try and create pain
Speaker 1: where that I may not be feeling it. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're watching.
Speaker 2: It, yes, yes, you.
Speaker 1: Your body can think, oh my gosh, that's hurting.
Speaker 2: Is a needle going right right your Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And for the things that did hurt, like putting the
Speaker 1: needle in, the novacaine, the anesthesia and that hurt. But
Speaker 1: after that it was sort of like no, as long
Speaker 1: as I kept my eyes looking somewhere else, I was
Speaker 1: totally fine. Often times I like to look because I'm
Speaker 1: I like watching that kind of stuff. Here it's me.
Speaker 1: I was like you know, I know my brain, I
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna I'm gonna imagine pain. So and as
Speaker 1: soon as I took my brain and looked elsewhere, it
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't that bad. And I've had to do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all done it with dental You know,
Speaker 1: we can't watch and you know you're you're gripping the
Speaker 1: tear tight and you're holding and then they'll say, does
Speaker 1: anything hurt. No, then relax your face and your jaw.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just like Oh, I didn't even realize. I
Speaker 1: was like sensing up the whole time. But we can
Speaker 1: imagine pain, and we can create that that sometimes just
Speaker 1: by distracting ourselves by doing something else with the other arm,
Speaker 1: the other body part, or just getting them to move.
Speaker 1: Like I say, I did some stretching and mobility work.
Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't gonna bother me. I knew it wouldn't,
Speaker 1: and it didn't. Was I pushing through my foot a
Speaker 1: little sure, but I just kept whatever hurt, don't do that, Okay,
Speaker 1: do this other thing, and we can almost always find
Speaker 1: something that the body can do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've had several clients over the years who were really extreme,
Speaker 2: just clients and extreme pain of whatever kind, and they
Speaker 2: really genuinely were and you know, there was all the
Speaker 2: psychological stuff, but it was also just they were not
Speaker 2: going to be very comfortable doing a whole lot of things.
Speaker 2: And so we had a program which was by all accounts,
Speaker 2: pretty minimal. You wouldn't you know, nobody would say they're
Speaker 2: getting a good workout out of this particular thing. But
Speaker 2: it gave them somewhere to come to, It gave them
Speaker 2: somewhere to go, It gave them some sense of hope,
Speaker 2: and you know, I mean, I think of one gal particularly.
Speaker 2: We would line the trap table and we would do
Speaker 2: armwork and we basically do like supine armwork on the
Speaker 2: trap table with yellow springs or with thera bands or
Speaker 2: something else, just to get some movement going because any
Speaker 2: woman of her spine really just hurt like heck, so
Speaker 2: we do a little bit of that. We'd find ways
Speaker 2: to do her leg work that involved nothing else else
Speaker 2: moving and we would just do that. And you know,
Speaker 2: it was challenging for me for sure, because there wasn't
Speaker 2: a lot of progress made, but she was able to
Speaker 2: maintain the life that she needed. She was able to
Speaker 2: do what she needed to do professionally. She was able
Speaker 2: to kind of keep going and it was a very
Speaker 2: minimal program, but something about just coming in, checking in
Speaker 2: with her body as often she came to the clinic,
Speaker 2: to the studio, and then being able to move, getting
Speaker 2: some circulation, getting some awareness was just super helpful. Again,
Speaker 2: that was like some of the more minimal programs I've
Speaker 2: ever done, but that was really beneficial for her, you know,
Speaker 2: And I don't know that anybody else would have offered
Speaker 2: that or been able to offer that.
Speaker 1: And I bet you had to be very creative in
Speaker 1: what you came up with. I find that some of
Speaker 1: those clients, and I've had a number of them, and yes,
Speaker 1: you sort of find out these ten exercises work, and
Speaker 1: that's all we're going to do for the next six months,
Speaker 1: probably because if I go one step beyond, they're gonna
Speaker 1: claim that I that I hurt them. So we're gonna
Speaker 1: do the same thing for a while. But I will
Speaker 1: say that sometimes those are the clients that I get
Speaker 1: the most creative with because I think, man, all this
Speaker 1: other stuff seems to hurt, Let's try this instead. There's
Speaker 1: some stuff I've done on the phone roller for shoulder
Speaker 1: mobility work, and I'll be thinking, well, we've done it
Speaker 1: with a stick before. What if we added a band instead,
Speaker 1: What if we did this? What if we did that
Speaker 1: and we tried to have them move just in a
Speaker 1: little way, or maybe I pull a little bit on
Speaker 1: the band and they're just holding it still, basically a
Speaker 1: statue type of thing, and they're like, oh, this this
Speaker 1: feels okay. We found a path of mote. We found
Speaker 1: you know, can you move in a circle, can you
Speaker 1: can you move up? Can you move down? Can you
Speaker 1: do anything? Yeah? Okay, you write that down. Then we
Speaker 1: investigate next time we do maybe a little bit different.
Speaker 1: And I've come up with a lot of great exercises
Speaker 1: that I've used on hundreds of people afterward because it
Speaker 1: worked on them, and I'm thinking, I wonder who else
Speaker 1: it will work on, and you try it, I'm thinking, Wow,
Speaker 1: this really works. I've got a frozen shoulder routine that
Speaker 1: I work with with people, and when they first start,
Speaker 1: they're thinking, oh, you know, I'm really limited. But after
Speaker 1: six or eight weeks they say, I'm really starting to
Speaker 1: see some improvement. It's very very slow, but it's stuff
Speaker 1: that I had to sort of come up with because
Speaker 1: I'm thinking everything's hurting. We got to try something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And eventually you start finding these things that do work,
Speaker 1: and then you try it with someone else. Does it work?
Speaker 1: Does it not? May maybe it was a unicorn and
Speaker 1: you just got lucky. That's possible that happened. But sometimes
Speaker 1: lucky in the other way, and you're like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: this really does seem to work. I found a pattern
Speaker 1: that does work. So it makes you very creative.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean that's I think why. Well, I know,
Speaker 2: for me, that's a lot of why I work with
Speaker 2: the clients I work with and worked with all. You know,
Speaker 2: it was in the circumstances I was in. Because it's
Speaker 2: much more interesting for me to have to do problem
Speaker 2: solving uh in every session than to do the same
Speaker 2: old routine I've done, you know, eight hundred thousand times.
Speaker 2: That's just that's just my particular nature. Yours too. I
Speaker 2: like to have something new to think on, some some
Speaker 2: some new food for my brain to go, hmmm, how
Speaker 2: does that work?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly exactly. One other thing I wanted to mention
Speaker 1: here because I said it in the intro. What about illness? Right?
Speaker 1: Because cold and flu season comes around and they get sick.
Speaker 1: When did they come back? When is it okay? When
Speaker 1: should they? When shouldn't they because that's part of recovery
Speaker 1: as well, they recovered sufficiently, because how many of us
Speaker 1: have had that? Well, you're going to charge me. So
Speaker 1: I came in any way, and they're hacking and they're
Speaker 1: spreading germs all over the place. It's since COVID, I'll
Speaker 1: be honest, it's been a little better since COVID. They're
Speaker 1: they're at least respectful. But back then, I'm surprised I
Speaker 1: wasn't sick all winter because people were always coming in hacking. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not contagious. How do you know exactly exactly?
Speaker 2: Are you do? Not know?
Speaker 1: You don't know. You just don't want to you're.
Speaker 2: A microbiologist, exactly. You just want to save some money.
Speaker 1: And that's just it. Nobody wants to be charged by canceling,
Speaker 1: you know, an hour beforehand because they don't feel well.
Speaker 1: And I get that. We all I have a twenty
Speaker 1: four hour cancelation policy, most of us do. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: when you know, I've heard I've talked to a number
Speaker 1: of doctors and I've heard a number of different things.
Speaker 1: What's your sort of philosophy on this enough mine.
Speaker 2: That's so, I mean, honestly, let's see, it's changed a lot.
Speaker 2: It changed a lot with COVID, I have to say.
Speaker 2: And there's really two concerns. So one concern, to your point,
Speaker 2: is I want to be a caution the people coming
Speaker 2: into my studio and spreading a whole lot of germs.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Again, if I've got I have a lot of clients
Speaker 2: who are or had not at this I'm not working
Speaker 2: with clients at the moment so much, but I had
Speaker 2: clients who were who are older, who might be immune compromised,
Speaker 2: like I've got clients who are vulnerable in that sense.
Speaker 2: So I really and you know, and I don't want
Speaker 2: to get sick either, So I'm often pretty cautious just
Speaker 2: on that front that I don't necessarily want, you know,
Speaker 2: rampant germs floating around my studio. There's only so much
Speaker 2: that sterilizing your equipment with a spray bottle is going
Speaker 2: to do, you know, if somebody's coming in with something yucky.
Speaker 2: So there's that. Then this the second thing is, I know,
Speaker 2: for me, there are some situations and I you know,
Speaker 2: can kind of tell where I can move just fine.
Speaker 2: Like I get allergies a lot of times in the spring,
Speaker 2: you know, allergy Like I like I'm running, my nose
Speaker 2: is running, I may be coughing, I may be sneezing,
Speaker 2: but I know it's allergies. Like my energy is basically fine.
Speaker 2: I'm just full of snot right, and that's like, that's
Speaker 2: not contagious. It's and my energy is pretty much fine
Speaker 2: and I can do pretty much everything. I don't have
Speaker 2: a fever of that kind of thing. Then having something
Speaker 2: more like a flu, either a stomach well to two
Speaker 2: different examples. One is just like a fever, kind of
Speaker 2: a fever kind of flu, maybe a lot of long stuff,
Speaker 2: those things that you really feel like you're like you're
Speaker 2: going to bed, Like I'm going to bed. I have
Speaker 2: this thing and I am not moving. I want to
Speaker 2: stay on the couch. I want to read my book
Speaker 2: and I want to sleep. That's a different kind of
Speaker 2: illness for me. Yeah, And when I get those ones
Speaker 2: a lot of times, I would like, I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: want to be the first thing a client does in
Speaker 2: terms of physical activity. So I think my suggestion is often, well,
Speaker 2: you know, if you feel like you can pretty much
Speaker 2: stay up all day, do your ordinary things around the
Speaker 2: house anyway, or go back to work, then you're fine
Speaker 2: to come in. You know, if you're like, if you're
Speaker 2: like dragging out of bed, getting in the car, coming
Speaker 2: to see if you're going to go back to bed
Speaker 2: when you're home, probably you shouldn't see me like that.
Speaker 2: For me, seems like that's a good day to stand
Speaker 2: bed and and you know, so that would be kind
Speaker 2: of my take there. It was something like a stomach flu.
Speaker 2: A lot of times there's just a lot of weakness
Speaker 2: that comes from that, and you know, so for that,
Speaker 2: it's like, well, as long as you don't feel like
Speaker 2: you're gonna throw up on me, I'm pretty good with
Speaker 2: having you come in and we can start to work
Speaker 2: and you know, and deal with stuff. So those are
Speaker 2: kind of three rough things. What have you got? I've
Speaker 2: probably got more, but those are three rough things.
Speaker 1: They you're right, they have changed since COVID, And like you,
Speaker 1: I do have a number of immune compromised clients and
Speaker 1: during COVID we really had to be very aware of
Speaker 1: who was in our studio and someone would come in,
Speaker 1: and luckily we have multiple rooms, so if someone did
Speaker 1: come in and did have you know something going on,
Speaker 1: I could put on a mask and take them in
Speaker 1: the other room and then sterilize the daylights out of
Speaker 1: that if I did know someone was immune compromised. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I also have a rule that look, if I and
Speaker 1: you home, that's the rule. You're not fit. I can
Speaker 1: see you are not well. You have to leave now.
Speaker 1: And I say, I'm not letting you get everybody in
Speaker 1: here sick.
Speaker 2: Do you charge them?
Speaker 1: That depends on the client. Okay, I'll be the first
Speaker 1: to say. And I say that because we all have
Speaker 1: the person who is like, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can come in today. I'm not. I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: So we know those who are like that. We also
Speaker 1: know those who never cancel. Yeah, always show up, never
Speaker 1: and they call you in the morning and say, you
Speaker 1: know what, I woke up and I've got this SYNC.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. I got you exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Because yeah, So the discretion
Speaker 2: of this, of the of you, of the owner, right
Speaker 2: or whatever. Like those who you know never cancel unless
Speaker 2: like they're dying or their car broke down or something.
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, fine, that's I'll give you a pass
Speaker 2: on that and then there's notes are like, oh, oh
Speaker 2: you know my hairdresser changed to appointment. I did have
Speaker 2: this happening in the day. Oh yeah, so so I
Speaker 2: need to cancel. And this was like two hours before
Speaker 2: their appointment. And I'm like, okay, I'm charging you for.
Speaker 1: That one, no question, Yeah, that has no excuse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. And when it comes to I've talked to
Speaker 1: number of physicians and I've gotten a consensus with this.
Speaker 1: So I've talked to a number of them. If it's
Speaker 1: the flu, you really want to make sure that they
Speaker 1: have completely recovered, that they no longer have a fever,
Speaker 1: that their energy level is like eighty five to ninety
Speaker 1: percent back, because if it's only like sixty percent back,
Speaker 1: but they have no fever and they're feeling they can
Speaker 1: sit down at home, do a little paperwork and I
Speaker 1: feel fine. But they go to walk to the mailbox
Speaker 1: and back and whoa, I can barely you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not one hundred. I'm not there yet. Okay, maybe yeah yet.
Speaker 1: So wait until like eighty eighty five percent and then
Speaker 1: they're fine as long as they don't have you know,
Speaker 1: a fever or whatnot or not showing simple that's for
Speaker 1: something like the flu. When it comes to a cold,
Speaker 1: if you feel it starting, if you feel it coming on.
Speaker 1: So let's talk like a bell curve. The first like
Speaker 1: two thirds of a bell curve, the ramp up, the peak,
Speaker 1: and at the when it's starting to come back down,
Speaker 1: that's when you stay home. You do not want to
Speaker 1: be in the studio, because I've heard that that is
Speaker 1: technically when you're most contagious is at the beginning, when
Speaker 1: you still have that lingering something like a lingering cough.
Speaker 1: You feel one hundred percent you're going to work, but
Speaker 1: you got a lingering cough. And we have some older clients,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. I have one. It's been three years.
Speaker 1: The cough has not gone away. She's seen yeah, imagine,
Speaker 1: and of course someone hears them cough and now, because
Speaker 1: you know we experience COVID, they're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: they're sick. And I'm thinking, no, no, no, trust me,
Speaker 1: they've been coughing for three years. It's fine, right, no.
Speaker 2: Normal, just just their lungs are just not happy. It's
Speaker 2: just how it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're irritated. It's just the way it's going to
Speaker 1: be for this person. So some people do have their
Speaker 1: clear they're clearing their throat, they have allergies, they have
Speaker 1: something like that, but they feel fine for that. I say, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're good, you're good. But sometimes you can tell by
Speaker 1: looking at someone in their eyes they're just not looking
Speaker 1: right and their energy is completely changed. I mean, your
Speaker 1: energy and my energy. Even with allergies, it's still similar.
Speaker 1: We don't feel great, you know, we're still working in
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 2: People people would generally know except that my eyes, my
Speaker 2: eyes eyes are red and my nose is running like this.
Speaker 2: But otherwise I'm.
Speaker 1: Good, exactly you say, And it's not a big deal.
Speaker 1: But when you can see their white ashion, they're they're
Speaker 1: just not looking healthy, like you know what, you need
Speaker 1: to go home now and it's time. And a lot
Speaker 1: of times I've had some clients say, okay, you're right,
Speaker 1: and they know.
Speaker 2: They thank you for telling me, yeah, because I kind
Speaker 2: of needed somebody to give me permission in a way
Speaker 2: to just say, oh that I don't feel good.
Speaker 1: I'm going exactly. I don't know about you. I grew up.
Speaker 1: I was the kid who cried wolf at school. I
Speaker 1: was bored. School, bored the heck out of me. You know,
Speaker 1: I would finish the book and be thinking, Okay, now
Speaker 1: we've got to still talk about this for the next
Speaker 1: two weeks. So I would literally be bored on my
Speaker 1: rear end. So if I wanted to go home. My
Speaker 1: big thing. Now, when you do this, when you're in
Speaker 1: second and third and fourth grade, your parents catch up
Speaker 1: catch on to this pretty quickly, and from then on
Speaker 1: I was never allowed to stay home. I was practically
Speaker 1: dying before they'd stay home. So my brain, literally to
Speaker 1: this day is don't be a faker. Go and I
Speaker 1: have Sometimes I'll ask my wife and I'll say I think,
Speaker 1: and she goes, no, you're staying home, and she says
Speaker 1: that I'm You're right because my brain don't fake it.
Speaker 1: You know you can do it. And I'm sure there
Speaker 1: are times when you know, when you're a kid, you
Speaker 1: just don't want to go to school, but there's other
Speaker 1: times when you could have easily and you just didn't
Speaker 1: want to do that test or whatever. But I think
Speaker 1: that gets programmed in our brain that we don't want
Speaker 1: to whimp out. We don't want to you know, not
Speaker 1: be there, or the boss is going to get mad,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and so you end up going when
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't.
Speaker 2: This is getting to a little We've talked around this
Speaker 2: a little bit, but I just want to bring it
Speaker 2: up as it's kind of a last little bit here.
Speaker 2: So I spend a lot of time around little kids lately,
Speaker 2: just because I have a whole bunch of great newss
Speaker 2: and nephews of all different ages, and it's just so
Speaker 2: interesting to watch their relationship to discomfort or injury. And
Speaker 2: I think this just completely plays into all this stuff
Speaker 2: because I think of this one as one child that
Speaker 2: I think of particularly who you would watch or fall
Speaker 2: down and then she would look at her parents for
Speaker 2: their reaction, and if she got a reaction, then she'd
Speaker 2: start crying. Like it was that obvious, right, It was
Speaker 2: like she and if the parent wan, oh, you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: the hole. Like if the parent reacted and they got
Speaker 2: the response from the parent, then they're like, you literally
Speaker 2: saw them go oh, now I should cry. It was
Speaker 2: just like, Okay, that's really obvious. It was funny how
Speaker 2: obvious that was. And those are often you know, we
Speaker 2: see kind of a mature version of that same thing
Speaker 2: in some of our clients in terms of pain. That's
Speaker 2: just a little funny moment there, and then I have
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of other kids like are completely
Speaker 2: opposite they are so you know, like they fall down,
Speaker 2: they rather seriously fall down, fall off their bike as
Speaker 2: a you know, four year old and kind of scrape
Speaker 2: their knee and you know, bonk their elbow and and
Speaker 2: and they kind of look at their parents. Their parents
Speaker 2: just looks at them like, how are you okay? They like,
Speaker 2: and you see them kind of checking it out, Yeah okay,
Speaker 2: and then they go on. Right, So we learned that
Speaker 2: we learned that behavior so early, you know, and how
Speaker 2: the response how people respond to us when we're in
Speaker 2: pain really creates a lot of that stoicness versus like
Speaker 2: like oh if I just cry, I can get out
Speaker 2: of this, right. So I think that that plays into
Speaker 2: all of this recovery bit as well as that part
Speaker 2: of the psychology.
Speaker 1: Funny story. I don't know where I learned this from
Speaker 1: or if I just thought of this, but I taught
Speaker 1: my kids to DA. So every time they fell, they
Speaker 1: would look at me, and I'd go toda, and I
Speaker 1: kid you not. After you do that a few times
Speaker 1: they would fall down, hop up and go to DA
Speaker 1: and then go about their business. They thought that that right,
Speaker 1: did They'd like let it go, yes, and it just
Speaker 1: they kept going. They'd be in the park and other
Speaker 1: parents would say what did he just do? I say,
Speaker 1: he said today, and you could see they thought, how'd
Speaker 1: you train that? Asad? I just they want to reward
Speaker 1: them for crying, and in that sense, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: the gen X in me, it's like, oh, tough enough,
Speaker 1: but you know, it was that part of me that's like,
Speaker 1: you stumbled, Are you hurt if you don't cry immediately?
Speaker 1: And you look at me like are you So it's
Speaker 1: kind of like right, just see and it worked. And
Speaker 1: for the most part of my kids to this day,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like they're pretty stoic when it comes
Speaker 1: to certain things and sometimes I have to really poke
Speaker 1: at them and say are you sure, and they say, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of it does really hurt, and thinking, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's something we got to take a look at.
Speaker 1: So it can go the other way. But you're right,
Speaker 1: there are clients who sort of do this with pain
Speaker 1: to get attention, absolutely, and there's that negative attention as
Speaker 1: well as positive, and we have to respond with that
Speaker 1: as well and make sure that they that we give
Speaker 1: them the appropriate amount that they need, but don't necessarily
Speaker 1: reward them for you know, constantly coming in every single
Speaker 1: time being in pain. You can reward them with great
Speaker 1: conversation and here we're going to get stronger and give them,
Speaker 1: you know, reward basis on that. And don't you feel great?
Speaker 1: Look at this, You've never done this weight before, You've
Speaker 1: never lifted this much, you've never done those many reps.
Speaker 1: Your form was spectacular. Look at this, You're able to
Speaker 1: do this and you haven't ever done it before. That reward,
Speaker 1: hopefully can bolster them just as much as getting the
Speaker 1: attention of you know, some poet.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, Oh my gosh, I'm so exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, so there's a lot of practical stuff in there,
Speaker 2: so hopefully you guys got something out of that in
Speaker 2: terms of creating a moderate program, responding purplet to your clients,
Speaker 2: staying optimistic about what's possible, working the body parts that
Speaker 2: aren't injured. Yeah, there's a lot of pieces in there
Speaker 2: in terms of just helping people recover. A lot of
Speaker 2: good good case studies too, I think from both of us,
Speaker 2: So hopefully you guys can have some better results with
Speaker 2: your clients who are in recovery from something and hopefully
Speaker 2: that'll help you out out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I think there's a lot in there.
Speaker 1: So until next week, do us a favorite hit that
Speaker 1: like and subscribe button. We super appreciate every single one
Speaker 1: of you. If you want to get in touch with us,
Speaker 1: Moving Combos at gmail dot com, check us out on
Speaker 1: Instagram Moving Convos. My name Brian Ritchie under our YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: and for Norah Saint John, I'm Brian Ritchie. We'll see
Speaker 1: y'll next week.
Speaker 2: Hi guys,