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Speaker 1: The paranormal, UFOs, monsters, mysteries. As you're listening to Talking

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Weird and Know from a Kevin deep in the northwards,

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your hosts, Doctor Dean Bertram.

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Speaker 2: Greetings of my fellow weirdos and weirdos. Welcome to Talking

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Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host, Dean Bertram,

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and as always, I'm delighted that you've decided to join

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me for the next hour or so. Whether it's when

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we go out live on Thursday nights at nine pm

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Central on YouTube and Facebook or x maybe you're watching

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and listening to it on one of those platforms afterwards

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where it's archived, or perhaps you're listening to the audio

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only version which always drops the day after the live

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show on the Friday. Wherever you are, whatever time zone

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you're in, whatever time you're in, whether you're weigh in

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my distant future, or you're here with me in the present,

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or maybe from the past. You've traveled forward and you've

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grabbed it as a time travel like Art Bell would

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have talked about me wonderful coast to coast. I am regardless, Greetings,

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I'm so glad that you're all here with me. I'm

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super excited about the guest I have Today's a very

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very good friend of mine. Before I bring him on, though,

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I just want to remind people that this weekend is

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UFO Days in Elmwood, Wisconsin, from July twenty four to

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twenty six. They have all kinds of wonderful events, including

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an amazing UFO parade on the twenty sixth. On the

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twenty fifth, however, there's a bunch of speakers on UFO

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topics and the paranormal and the like, and I am

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one of those speakers. In fact, I am finishing the

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show at six thirty on the Saturday, so that's July

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twenty five this Saturday, and I will be screening what

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you've probably heard me talk about. If you're a regular

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viewer of or listener of Talking Weird on the ONTI

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Radio network, you probably heard me talk about The Shaver

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Mystery many times. It's been on the festival circuit now

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for over two years, and it's still running. I'm sure

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I'll wind down eventually. Every time I think we must

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be getting close to the end, I get more screenings,

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which is great. I'm not complaining. So I'll be screening

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The Shaver Mystery there. If you haven't seen it, you

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who come along and watch it with me and the

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rest of the audience, and then I'll be doing my

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little presentation, The Shaver Mystery Part two, which I've actually

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done before at a convention that tonight's guest is one

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of the organizers for. He's a super fan of the

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paranormal and the world of the weird, and you can

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catch him on his own show, Donnie cho says stuff

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on YouTube. So I'm delighted to welcome back to Talking

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Wed my very good friend, one and only, Donna Chow. Hello, man,

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it's great to have you. I miss Crossings. I had

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so much Sam and I had so much fun at that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just for a little clarification, I was not one

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of the organizers. I just kind of attended all the

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organizer meetings and kind I just sat there and cracked jokes. Well,

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the other people did most of their heavy lifting.

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Speaker 2: Believe me, if they had like a Nuremberg trial, you'd

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be like, I was.

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Speaker 3: Not one of them. Yeah, I was just kind of

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I was just there in the corner.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Well, you seemed like you were a

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vital part of it when I was there. That was

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the impression that I had anyway.

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Speaker 3: So well, I mean because you know the group, right,

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I was. I was a member of that group, So

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that was cool. That was fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a fun event. It was nice to

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get to hang out with you in person, which was amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I hope, hopefully we'll have more opportunities like that.

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Speaker 2: I sure hope. So you've got to come to Midwest Widfest,

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which is the first weekend of March in Oak Clare, Wisconsin,

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every year and a night of Horror they run simultaneously.

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We've been running there now for every decade.

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Speaker 3: First weekend in March.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you should come.

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Speaker 3: I do have some vacation time coming out.

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Speaker 2: Man. It's a fun time. It's a lot of fun.

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That'd be amazing to have you there.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to think about that.

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Speaker 2: You should twist McLean's arm as well.

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Speaker 3: I should.

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Speaker 2: And BMR is not that bml's Midwest, right, he's in Michigan.

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Speaker 3: How far is that from you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's probably closer than Texas. And and

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were you where you're I always forget where you are

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exactly the Maryland.

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Speaker 3: I recently moved to North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: Ah, that's quite the that's quite the I would think

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it would be a little different, there is it. Because

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I've been to Maryland and I think I've driven through

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the Carolinas. It seemed pretty different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more humid here, but slightly, it's not that much.

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I feel like the weather overall, the climate's better in

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Maryland because it's more temperate. You get all four seasons.

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Speaker 2: And lots of spooky I would have thought there might

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have been more. I think, well, no, that might not

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be true. Where was the spooky stuff? What's the weader

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of the two states?

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Speaker 3: I feel like North Carolina's got more. They both have

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a lot. Actually, now that I think about it, North

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Carolina definitely has more cryptid stuff. Uh, Maryland because of

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its history, especially you know where it sits in American history,

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I feel like there's a lot more ghosts and haunting stuff.

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I did look into it, and yeah, there was quite

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a bit of that. I only ever heard of maybe

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a small handful of crypted encounters. But I feel like

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North Carolina does definitely has more of that.

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Speaker 2: What's the main CRYPTI in North Carolina?

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Speaker 3: Dog man?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And apparently this is like dog me in Central

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and Kentucky and but yeah, in Michigan.

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Speaker 2: And even even the south, even Wisconsin is one of

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those is where we get the basic brain runs from. Yeah,

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but I didn't know the Carolinas was a dog man place.

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Speaker 3: Apparently there's a bunch of dog man encounters here in

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the western part, like near Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: Okay, because that's that's down to that's getting closer to

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land between the lakes as well, right with.

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Speaker 3: It's getting there, getting to like the Blue Riche Mountains

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and everything. That's not where I'm at. I'm I'm in

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like the northern central part, and you're Raleigh, So I'm

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like just in the burbs.

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Speaker 2: Do you consider yourself as Southern and am more than

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when you're in Maryland.

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Speaker 3: I don't even consider where up the part I am

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the South. Really, Raleigh is kind of like Austin. You

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get a lot of transplants from other states and there's

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a lot of like tech companies here, so it's like Austin. Yeah,

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it's technically into South, but you don't really consider it

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the South because you have so many people moving in

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from like California and stuff and gotcha other states, gotcha.

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So Raleigh, Raleigh and the surrounding area is kind of

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like that. Most of them. The license plate you see

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in traffic are all from outers Artis Date, much to

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the chagrin of the local North Carolinians.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I bet it's frustrating, I think. I mean, I

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can't talk because I'm one of the imports to a

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rural area. But if you're in an area and you

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had certain social mores and in a traditions, and then

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all these people come in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're an ex pat, that's different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Maybe do you ever miss Australia?

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Speaker 2: You know what I think? I sometimes obviously miss friends

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and family here in Australia. Do you know what I mean?

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I'd lived in Sydney and it's a horrible thing to say,

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but I think Sydney's best days are behind it. I

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tend to think sometimes when Citi has become so big,

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they become less livable. I think I grew up at

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a time in Sydney where while Sydney was still the

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major city in Australia, it hadn't grownunder the size that

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it has now. They were still really nice out of suburbs.

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You could still park on the streets of the city

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for goodness sakes, like you can literally drive into the

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heart of the city and park. You know, I don't

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think you could do that anymore on a street in Sydney.

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So I don't miss the idea of living in a

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city like that.

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Speaker 3: I really don't.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to live in a city like that

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anywhere on the planet. But yeah, I miss you know,

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I miss friends and family and stuff, and I missed

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probably the old Sydney of when I was a kid.

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But everybody has those golden childhood you know, memories of

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areas they lived when they were little, which mightn't be

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like that anymore. The suburb I grew up in, which

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was very we say bushy in Australia, but woodsy or foresty,

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you know what I mean, big blocks, houses or you know,

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backing onto you know, essentially bushland or forest land. You know,

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no fences, kids running, you know, rampant and hit parents,

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voices calling them home. You know the Springsteen song. You

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know you hear mother's voice calling you home across the

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open yards. That's literally what Sydney was like when I

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grew up. You start hearing parents calling their kids. By

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the time I left, it wasn't even like that. And

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now it's nothing like that, like from the people I

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talked to there. So in a way, I'm glad I

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didn't have to watch the parts of Sydney I really

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love become, you know, trashed by excessive development. Anyway, we

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should talk paranormal because people were be going are they're

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doing a real estate travel show?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or are they not? I know because I haven't talked

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to you for a while. That's why it's nice catching

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up with you. It's almost like I wasn't even paying

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attention to the fact we've we've got an audience out there.

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So you pitched the idea of the show to now.

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I think it's a great idea, the idea of proving

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the paranormal. How do you do it? Can it be done?

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Is it even worth doing? So maybe that's where we launch.

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Tell me a little bit about about your reason for

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wanting to talk about this tonight.

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Speaker 3: Well, a couple things. One, I was on a show

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last night where people were just throwing up a bunch

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of pictures, you know the type where it's a cryptid

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show and they'll show you like a picture of the

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woods or something, and there's like a black splotch off

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in a corner that they have to use a red

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circle to identify. And we've all seen it. We've seen

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thousands of those, and I remember during that time, I

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was just looking staring at it and thinking to myself, Man,

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why are we doing this? Is this isn't going to

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convince anyone. It's not even going to convince like hardcore

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Bigfoot believers. And then at the end of the day,

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is like, is there any picture that would prove something

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like that? That's more of the question of like is

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this worth it? Right? The other thing I started thinking

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about was like the other phenomenon in the Fordian field,

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like psychics and ghosts. I feel like something like that

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would be provable if we came up with the right experiment.

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The problem is no one's really thought of the right experiment.

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Speaker 1: Or the one that no.

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Speaker 3: One's tried to execute it, and maybe for logistical reasons.

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But here's an example, right and to a topic that is,

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I guess parallel to the Fortian field astrology. Right there,

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there are people who believe in astrology, there are people

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who don't. Everyone's got their sign, everyone knows their sign.

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But even to the people they that don't believe it

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are people who are on the fence. I'm like, you know,

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we could prove this. It's very provable. All you gotta

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do is just survey enough people ask them if you know,

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because we already have established the different characteristics of each

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of the different signs. Okay, Like, for example, Dean, let

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me ask you, what is your sign? And in your

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opinion of yourself, do you feel like you fit that mold?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm Aries, and I think I do.

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Speaker 3: Hell, so.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. Well, there's an assertiveness to an areas.

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It's an I am sign. It's an ego sign. Right,

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there's an idea you can you know, you can get

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things done, you can do things, you kind of motivated.

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That's and I think a lot of those a lot

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of those traits. I've always thought that part of the

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aries and and that said, I'm not an astrologist, Like

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I don't look at my sign, I don't read my

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signs in the papers. I don't really think about it.

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But I remember as a kid growing up in the

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seventies and eighties, when astrology was, you know, a major thing,

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that I was like, Oh, what's Aries? Oh, okay, it's

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I am and okay, just kind only and even as

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a kid, I was conscious of you know, I'm kind

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of like that.

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Speaker 3: So, but do you agree? Do you think if people

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put in the effort to like survey enough people, we

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could kind of figure out, like, maybe there's some legitimacy

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to the whole science thing and the characteristics of individual people.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps I know that somebody who's a serious and I listen,

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I'm not an again, I'm not an astrologist. And I

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don't even know how much it's ironic because I say, yeah,

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I fit the areas were, But at the same time,

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I'm like, well, I don't really know how much credence

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I give to it. So I'm kind of playing both

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sides here. But I know that in astroll, like a

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real astrology would say, well, it's not as simple as

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your signs. We've got to see where mercury was and

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satin was and what cust I mean, I'm just talking

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out the side of that now. I don't even know

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the terminology. But they're like, and we know what meridian

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you were on or whatever the devil they talk about,

259
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right like, it's a complicated it's a complicated I don't

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say this derogatory. I say as a pseudoscience, right, like

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it's not accepted as a science. But astrologist who actually

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did it professionally or really put a lot of time

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into the study of it, would say, well, it's more

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complicated than you just being born, you know, in April

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or whatever. You know. They go so so, yeah, So

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I'm not sure if just by I'm not sure whether

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it would or wouldn't even make astrologists go Okay, well

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you got there, you know, like they said, no, no,

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you missed this anyway, because this is far more complicated.

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That's what I expect.

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Speaker 3: I think. Do you think an empirical study could be

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performed to if enough academics did put into time, into

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resources into it.

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Speaker 2: It's a very good question. And then you know what

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I don't know enough about I don't know enough about astrology.

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Just are there different schools? Like then would another school

277
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I don't even know, Like is there only one way

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of doing astrology or is there twenty thirty forty different schools?

279
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I really don't know. I think you could do you

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could do it. You could do a pole driven study

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where you could do ask the exact questions you asked me,

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what is your star signed? Do you think you fit

283
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the traits of that, but then you've got it. Then

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does that indicate that the science if it's a science.

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Anybody who listens this show knows I'm not a big

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fan of science anyway. But if it could be somehow

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you know, quantified and qualified and put into a neat

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little box, could you then say, well, maybe people were

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biased because they've been told they were what they knew

290
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they were in areas or a pisceas or Aquarius or

291
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whatever since they were a kid, and they looked into

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it and then they thought, well, there is that part

293
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of me. It's like doing a cold read, you know

294
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how like somebody a good cold reader can behave like

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a psychic. They know exactly how to get a confirmation

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bias out of you. And maybe if somebody had told

297
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me I was born, you know, in February or something,

298
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I go, well, yeah, I have traits of the pis season.

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So I don't know if that would prove what I'm

300
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saying is I don't know if that would prove the

301
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legitimacy of astrology, or if it would just prove that

302
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there's x amount of the population who are living up

303
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to a confirmation bias. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Hmm.

305
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Speaker 3: Let me ask you this question, a more personal question

306
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than Dean. Have you ever gotten to like a psychic

307
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reading or like a tarot reading done on you and

308
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in hindsight, based off what they told you, did it

309
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come true?

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I certainly have had. I've certainly

311
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played around enough, you know, back in my teens and

312
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twenties with Taro and with other people who did Taro

313
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to have probably gotten, you know, have received readings. Did

314
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I ever get something that told my future accurately? Not

315
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that I can recall, to be honest. I mean, maybe

316
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somebody did tell something about my future and it kind

317
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of but was never I was never impressed enough by

318
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anything to have walked away and gone, you know, back

319
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at that you know, back at that party in my

320
00:16:01,639 --> 00:16:04,639
twenties when that hippie girl red my terror. She was

321
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dead on you know. So to answer you a question,

322
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I can't even remember the ratings, and I certainly can't

323
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remember any of them, making.

324
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Speaker 3: It so when people ask me if, hey, Donnie, do

325
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you believe in psychics and Taro and stuff? I always

326
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say yes because I have to, because the times I

327
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recall where I got psychic reading they all came true,

328
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like onred percent of the one hundred percent of the

329
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predictions came true. And these instances I recall very well.

330
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First time it was in Manhattan. I was with this

331
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girl who was like a Maxim model. At the time.

332
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I was in my twenties, and I was just there

333
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because she was like the type of girl if she

334
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asked you to come with her, you don't say no, right.

335
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I gave her a ride to her psychic who she

336
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was seeing, like like you know, pretty regularly, and I

337
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was just there hanging out and they were just like, hey, Donnie,

338
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do you want to do you want to reading? And

339
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at the time I knew nothing of that the sort

340
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of thing, right, So I was like, yeah, whatever, why

341
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not they do a reading for me. The lady goes

342
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and she's like an Eastern World like European kind of lady,

343
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and she says, in about this time in a year,

344
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you're going to be living in another country. And at

345
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the time I had zero plans. I had just gotten done.

346
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I just graduated college, you know, I was like in

347
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my first job. Still, I was like, I'm not I

348
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have zero intention lo and behold a year two that

349
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day I was living in South Korea working as an

350
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English teacher. Wow. A few years later, I am at

351
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a bar with a bunch of friends and this is

352
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a bar that we went to pretty regularly in Korea,

353
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and the bartender, who was like a regular, you know,

354
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we were regular, so we were friends with him. He

355
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was like, it was a very slow night. There weren't

356
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a lot of people, and we were just hanging out

357
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and he said, Hey, guys, I've got this new hobby

358
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going on. It's called tarot can I and I'm practicing.

359
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Can I do a reading for you? We're like sure,

360
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And then just for the fun of it, we're like, hey,

361
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,880
let's do this. Let's do a specific topic. Let's talk

362
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about our dating lives for the next year. And he

363
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went through like every relationship I would have in that

364
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,799
next year. It all came true to a t in

365
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,599
the same order. And like a year later, I thought

366
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,799
back on that and I was like, well, Taro is real.

367
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,759
H That guy wasn't even like a professional or nothing.

368
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He was just dabbling. Wow, so I have to believe it.

369
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But the thing is that proof only works for me

370
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because that's my own personal experience. Right to prove something

371
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to the masses. You can't really do that. You know,

372
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you have to find you know, you have to perform

373
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actual experiments, get data, get results. But no one's actually

374
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doing that because everyone's so hung up on like producing

375
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pictures and films that no one's gonna believe anyway. Right, Okay,

376
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:02,880
so here's here's the other thought experiment I often bring

377
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,519
up to people. Right, you know, people are always trying

378
00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:08,359
to come up with pictures of Bigfoot, right, and they'll

379
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have a random black splotch in the corner, a picture

380
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:16,200
of the woods or whatever. What if, Okay, one day

381
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someone had a trail cam footage and a bigfoot just

382
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,519
walks right in front of the camera, stand still, and

383
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:30,359
it's just a full frontal, clears day picture of Bigfoot.

384
00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:34,039
That person then takes that picture releases it out into

385
00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:38,079
the world. How do you think people react.

386
00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:42,440
Speaker 2: I think they would be a mixture of reaction. I

387
00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:45,759
think they'd be a lot of people in the Sasquatch

388
00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:49,559
community that would eagerly accept it and think it was accurate,

389
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,359
you know, legitimate photo. There might even be some people

390
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,680
in the Sasquatch community that would think it was a hoax.

391
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,240
I think in the real world, you know, they'd be

392
00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:02,319
a mixture of people who were optimistic about it, and

393
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,519
there'd be people who were pessimistic. I think skeptics would

394
00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:10,359
roll out, you know, saying it was a hoax. I

395
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,559
so again, the I think, much like perhaps we were

396
00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:17,160
talking about confirmation bias before. I think often where your

397
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,440
belief system already sits can affect your interpretation of an

398
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,839
image like that. It's like the Patterson Gimlin thing that

399
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,759
you and I BMR talked about the last time you

400
00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:27,440
were on Talking with.

401
00:20:28,039 --> 00:20:29,799
Speaker 3: I think there's a difference with the Paris and Gimlin.

402
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,599
Though if this were to happen today now I have

403
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,640
to slightly disagree because my opinion, if they took a

404
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,119
picture like that, a full frontal clear picture of Bigfoot

405
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,359
front of a betrail camp, I think for the most part,

406
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,680
people wouldn't buy it. People will either say it's either

407
00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:49,160
a guy in a suit or it's AI. Right now,

408
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,240
Paris and Gimlin had took place at a time when

409
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:53,440
there was no AI, so you take that out of

410
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,920
the equation. But if you were to come out nowadays

411
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,480
and just had a full frontal clear picture of Bigfoot,

412
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,039
first assumption, everyone's going to make it.

413
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,319
Speaker 2: Oh it's a yeah, I agree with you. I agree

414
00:21:04,319 --> 00:21:09,000
with you. Actually you're right, and I don't I don't know.

415
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,119
I don't know how that can ever be walked back really,

416
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,839
you know, I don't know how we get to a

417
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,559
place where I mean, maybe if it was maybe to

418
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,119
your point before, if it was very much an organized

419
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:31,880
scientific study that was you know, done under a serious,

420
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:38,200
you know, full proof methodology, where it could be verified

421
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,480
that an image was taken, I think then it might

422
00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:42,599
be a different discussion. Then it might get the front

423
00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:44,839
page of the New York Times or something. But yeah,

424
00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:47,160
of just's some random hunter in a field. So as

425
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,759
I got this on my game cam, Yeah, I think,

426
00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:52,720
I think. But there'll be people in the There'll be

427
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:55,400
people in the bigfoot community who there's people in the

428
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,799
big foot community who you know, will look at a

429
00:21:57,839 --> 00:22:00,680
red circle around a blurry image, you know, which looks

430
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,039
like a shadow behind a tree in sight, it's a sasquatch.

431
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:06,000
So there's plenty of people who were beak sided.

432
00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 3: I think I see that as two ends of two

433
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,599
extreme ends. Right, You've got the blurry spot in the

434
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,960
corner with the red circle, and then most people are

435
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,160
to say well, that's nothing. But the thing is, the

436
00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:18,799
clearer it is and the more realistic it is, the

437
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,480
less inclined the mainstream is gonna believe it, because then

438
00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:23,680
they're just gonna say it's a guy in a suit. Yeah,

439
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,640
so you can't win. Well, there's another example. I recall.

440
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,640
It was a ghost photo, right, and they said it

441
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,359
was the most realistic picture of a ghost ever and

442
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,759
it was a full on picture of an apparition. I

443
00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:42,200
wish I could show you the picture, but I don't

444
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,160
have access to the streaming ar and I can't find

445
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,279
a picture anyway. But I do recall this because it

446
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,839
was as clear as day. It was a woman and

447
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,680
her child, a toddler in their living room, right, posing together,

448
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,799
and then background over the woman's shoulder, towards the back

449
00:22:56,839 --> 00:23:00,799
of the room, there's just a woman standing there and

450
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,359
people are and like, just clear as day, there's just

451
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:06,640
a woman literally in the background. And then you know,

452
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:08,519
someone I think I read it was like, yeah, that

453
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:13,720
woman had died like years ago, right, But and again

454
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:16,039
it was just clear as day, crystal clear picture of

455
00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:17,599
a woman in the background. But I'm like, what if

456
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:19,720
that was just a woman in the background. What if

457
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:21,880
it was that woman's mother, right.

458
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,279
Speaker 2: I haven't experienced a little bit like that when I

459
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,839
When I was in college, my brother and I through

460
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:38,920
very extensive Halloween parties. We would actually charge a cover

461
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:41,799
charge to the people we invited, and there would be

462
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,119
like propacated food, like we'd bring in catering trucks, and

463
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,640
they'd be like, you know, free drinks, and they'd be

464
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,480
live bands, and they'd be you know, all kinds of

465
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,480
crazy shenanigans. Like it was almost like going to a

466
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,240
guest in America at a hornet house where you were

467
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,119
just privately invited, right, And we did our house. We'd

468
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,640
set up like a horn It was a big deal

469
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:01,880
and we did. We didn't do it forever, but we

470
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,519
probably did it for three or four years. It was

471
00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:09,200
a consistent thing we did. And one year there was

472
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,480
a photo on Halloween of the band playing Lived This

473
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:16,680
is how crazy we were about these parties. We built

474
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,440
a stage at the back of our house for the

475
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:21,640
built a stage and it stayed there for the bands

476
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,920
to play on about Halloween parties. And there was a

477
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,079
photo that was taken on that stage of the band playing,

478
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,599
and there was something that everybody who saw the program

479
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:37,000
for the photo were horrified by there was some weird,

480
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,920
ghostly demonic head just coming out of the darkness, clear

481
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,079
as anything, right, and people would look at it. Multiple

482
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,200
people looked at this photo. Multiple people are like, what

483
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:49,359
on earth is that?

484
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 3: You know what?

485
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,279
Speaker 2: We eventually figured out what it was. It was my

486
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,359
brother's hand playing his guitar with a big white like

487
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,319
he had a gothic frill, and just the way it

488
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,640
was positioned, and it was just like it didn't there

489
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,000
was no context to it because everything else was dark.

490
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,599
It fully looked like a demonic face coming out of

491
00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:10,200
the darkness.

492
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,519
Speaker 3: Wow, I bet you.

493
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: If I hadn't said that and put it up now

494
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,279
and zoomed in, people go, yeah, what is That's a

495
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:17,799
spooky face? Like it was a scary, but it was

496
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,480
just an anomaly. It was just my brother's hand playing

497
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:24,720
with his big white goth you know, cuff sticking out

498
00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:28,599
playing you know, playing playing holding the neck of the guitar.

499
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,759
So sometimes we can see things which were sure and

500
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,359
multiple people can be sure something anomalous and you know

501
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:36,759
they're not.

502
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: I've got a similar story, well not similar, but kind

503
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,920
of kind of into Sam being So a couple of

504
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,400
years back, I think the year before that Crossing Rolls conference.

505
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:50,359
The whole group of us we were all at a

506
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,000
conference in Alabama, like me and Jason and everyone else.

507
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,160
Rob the Rob was not there, but the blondes were there.

508
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,559
Like the group was there for a big foot conference, right,

509
00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:04,799
so you know how you know, after the conference at night,

510
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,160
everyone likes to go to the bar hang out, right,

511
00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:09,839
So first night there, we're at the bar. There's a

512
00:26:09,839 --> 00:26:11,680
bunch of speakers and a bunch of people at the

513
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:18,759
conference all hanging out. I'm off playing pool, and none

514
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:22,440
other than Jason McLean comes up to me looking white

515
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,880
as a ghost, looking like all wide eyed, and you

516
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,680
can ask him this story. He'll tell you the story.

517
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:30,759
He's like, dude, you know. He tasks me on the shoulder.

518
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:33,160
He's like, dude, you got to come with me right now.

519
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,200
You got to see this. So I'm like in the

520
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,119
middle of my game, okay, so I just you know,

521
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,400
put down my stuff. I go over to him, and

522
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,920
there's this girl who was attending the conference with like

523
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,359
her mother. She was like a college age girl. And

524
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,200
Jason was like goes to her and she's like, show

525
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:55,599
show Donnie what she showed me. So she takes out

526
00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:59,559
her phone and she's flipping through pictures. Basically they own horses, right,

527
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:03,079
and they've got you know, they're it's all pictures of

528
00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:06,359
her horses at the ranch outside right, like running around

529
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,799
and she's flipping through them, and it's all like in sequence, right,

530
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,400
same setting, same subject. But in one of the pictures

531
00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:17,880
up in the sky, there's a silhouette of a terroosaur,

532
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,240
unmistakable terosaur like that press. It's all it's black, and

533
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:27,720
you know, Jason famously had that terrostare encounter. That's why

534
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,799
he was looking white as a ghost because it was

535
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,720
like clear as day. This girl, we know is not

536
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:37,400
hoaxing because once she wasn't seeking attention, she wasn't blasting

537
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,359
that out on podcasts or on the internet. She just

538
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,240
came to the convention not even knowing that Jason had

539
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:45,839
a terrorist soar encounter. She's like, I got something weird

540
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,880
on my phone. But because it was a person a

541
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,240
person experience. Back to my point earlier, like personal encounters

542
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,119
are some of the most powerful evidence that anyone ever needs.

543
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,359
But you can't. I had no reason to believe that

544
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,480
girl was lying or that she made it up at

545
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:07,759
all because from what I knew about that girl and

546
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:10,160
that situation and the fact that she wasn't putting it

547
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,960
out there. And then afterwards Jason and I were talking

548
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,759
about it, We're like, what if we took that picture

549
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:17,599
and just put it up on a podcast? And then

550
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,440
we both shrugged him. Jason was like, no one will care.

551
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,400
No one will care because we don't have the context

552
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,799
of where it came from. To the people watching at home,

553
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,319
it's just a random outline of a black flying creature

554
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,359
in the corner of like some horse pictures.

555
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,599
Speaker 2: And I think, I mean, maybe that's maybe that is

556
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:47,559
You've hit on the fact that so much of this

557
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:51,440
I don't mean anecdotal in a dismissive way, but so

558
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:57,440
much of it is from personal encounters, the history of

559
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,759
the entire phenomenon when it's recorded and when it written down,

560
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:02,960
whatever it is. And when I say the phenomenon, I

561
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,880
mean literally, whether it's I could say phenomena, but I

562
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,960
think it's all kind of the same. So whether it's

563
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,799
say phenomena to make people more comfortable, whether it's a

564
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,000
UFO or a ghost or a bigfoot or whatever, these

565
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:19,000
are incredibly powerful personal encounters and maybe, and I often

566
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:22,279
think they're there to serve some kind of purpose. They're

567
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:25,279
not there for something for us to ever actually know

568
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,400
and decipher. They might be there to point us to

569
00:29:28,839 --> 00:29:31,519
the idea that reality is very different than we think

570
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:34,480
it is. But I don't think it's I don't think

571
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,200
the mystery is solvable. And when this is what I

572
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,599
thought about the topic, you suggest that we talk about

573
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:43,960
this about proving the paranormal and why I wanted to

574
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,640
do it so much with such a great idea is

575
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,240
I know Horace Smith is in the chat, the professor

576
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:52,000
emeritus of astronomy in physics at Michigan State University, a

577
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:53,440
very good friend of mine, a very good friend of

578
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,640
the show, and I'm sure he'll disagree with me. But

579
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:01,079
I don't think science has equipped, quite frankly, to explain

580
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,480
or just to decipher much of this. And that's because

581
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:07,319
I think much of this doesn't operate in a space

582
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,319
that any of the physical science is capable of dealing with.

583
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,640
And I don't think it fits.

584
00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: While I do agree science is not equipped to handle

585
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,559
this topic or the subject matter, I do have to

586
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:23,880
say there is something to the scientific method that could

587
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,400
be applied that would be I think that would bolster

588
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,000
a lot of claims. Or okay, let me let me

589
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:37,920
give you an idea that I thought about. Okay, Let's say,

590
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,960
for example, you wanted to prove that psychic mediums were

591
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,079
a thing and that there were a group of people

592
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:45,799
out there who had the natural gift of seeing ghosts?

593
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:48,640
How would you go about proving that? And I thought

594
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,559
of an idea how one could prove that using the

595
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,680
scientific method. It would take which which I don't think

596
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,920
anyone's ever thought of doing. But you take a house

597
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,960
that you absolutely know is not haunted, do the research,

598
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,079
make sure there were no deaths in the vicinity, no

599
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,319
Native American sites, very recently built home. Right, maybe you

600
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,160
had one or two families. You ask them all these questions,

601
00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:18,480
none of them have had any paranormal experiences, and you

602
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:23,200
make sure you establish that this house is definitely not haunted. Good.

603
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,519
You take a group of psychic mediums, don't give them

604
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:30,000
any information about the house, have them through a walkthrough,

605
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:34,240
and then you record what each person says, or you know,

606
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:39,480
you record the data what each person concludes. Right that

607
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:44,119
you established the control right once you've a statted. Now,

608
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,039
because what you're going for is a psychic medium to

609
00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:52,240
go through that house and be like, nah, there's nothing here. Right.

610
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:56,319
You take those psychic mediums, the ones who say yeah,

611
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,440
I see this and that, you throw them out right,

612
00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:02,720
clearly they fail the control group. So you take the

613
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,119
ones that pass the control group. You take him to

614
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,279
a house that's actually haunted but not famous. Right. You

615
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:13,200
know that multiple people have reported, but it's not like

616
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,680
the Sally House where it's got like this reputation. Right.

617
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,880
You take that group of psychic mediums, you take each one,

618
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,319
you have him through a walkthrough, and you see if

619
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:29,079
they all see the same thing. That's one way you

620
00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:33,119
can apply to scientific method and prove the phenomena of psychics.

621
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,960
Not to say that science is in and of itself

622
00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:38,599
is equipped to deal with the question of psychic mediums

623
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,960
or ghosts or whatever, but I think the scientific method

624
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,839
would still be useful.

625
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I mean, there's certainly there's certainly been people

626
00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:53,279
in this the broader scientific space like JB. Roan would

627
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:55,720
be a classic example with his experiments on you know,

628
00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:58,960
ESP and the like, who was doing it within the

629
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,400
construction of you know, trying to have some methodology, and

630
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,279
he had some success, and you know, there seemed to

631
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:08,640
be the things he was studying that are worth pursuing.

632
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,039
And I still talked about within you know, the groups

633
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,839
you know, within people who are interested in this kind

634
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,799
of stuff. But so it is interesting. I guess there's

635
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:24,480
another problem as well, though, if the phenomenon behaves differently

636
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,000
to the type of phenomenon that science is used to

637
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,559
dealing with. Like let's just say that the phenomenon itself,

638
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:38,920
as some authors and thinkers have suggested, has a tricksterish element.

639
00:33:40,319 --> 00:33:45,200
Then might that element intentionally mess with an experiment or

640
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:50,359
might it intentionally try to make the experiment succeed one

641
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,640
time and when it's done again, like you tend to

642
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,480
get in a scientific method, where would it then mess

643
00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:58,759
with it? Is it unpredictable? Is it something that you

644
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:01,960
know you might do that horned House study, and then

645
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,440
they may go, well, we need to do it again.

646
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:06,880
And then another group of investigators or people applying the

647
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,880
method might come in and get different results. And that

648
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,760
mightn't be because your methodology is problematic, and it might be

649
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,480
because the phenomenon itself doesn't behave the way if you

650
00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:22,360
were I don't know, going in there to study animals

651
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,320
that might live in a deserted house, or the way

652
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,159
you might be studying structural damage in a horned or

653
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,519
we know what, you know, invent whatever we want to

654
00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:34,039
think about. Maybe this phenomenon itself is unpredictable. Maybe the

655
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:37,599
phenomenon itself behaves differently with different people, and you know

656
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:41,159
what I mean, that's so my suspicion is, it's just

657
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,159
it's like it's like, you know, trying to grab an

658
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,360
eel out of a barrel filled with you know, greasy

659
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:49,480
rope and they're all covered in oil, you know, to

660
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:52,920
try to get the answer to it. I don't think

661
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,199
your idea is a bad idea, and you know what,

662
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,440
to be honest, somebody should go out and do that

663
00:34:57,519 --> 00:34:59,400
at a proper, you know, serious level.

664
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:01,159
Speaker 3: Heard of anyone trying something.

665
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,159
Speaker 2: No, well, that's maybe something that maybe that's something you

666
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,159
need to do. I'd be fascinated.

667
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: It'd be hard to gather up to that. Many psychic mediums, man,

668
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,360
it'd be like hurting cats. They tend to I don't

669
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,559
know if you've met many psychic mediums, but they tend

670
00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:19,239
to have a lot of idiosyncrasies and foibles in their personalities.

671
00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:22,119
Speaker 2: That's true. You know what, I bet you could do

672
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:24,159
it if you were running it as a reality TV show,

673
00:35:24,199 --> 00:35:25,639
because everybody likes a minute, you know.

674
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: I think it's an experiment worth doing. Honestly, I think

675
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,119
if you do that, it actually takes out the trickster element,

676
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,079
because if you have a group of psychic mediums agreeing

677
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:38,800
on seeing the same entity or the same ghosts who

678
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,639
have no prior knowledge of the location. Right, see, it's

679
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:45,280
another it's one result if they all disagree with one another.

680
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,159
Like one person says, oh, I see the spirit of

681
00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:51,159
a dead man and a dead woman upstairs. Another person says,

682
00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:53,840
I just see the spirit of like five children. They

683
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,039
should all theoretically, if the phenomena exists as we understand,

684
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:59,000
it should be able to see the same spirits.

685
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Horrace Smith just made a point. He said,

686
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:09,079
experimental statistics are the easy part, design mistakes and trickery,

687
00:36:09,199 --> 00:36:10,800
full gullible scientists.

688
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,079
Speaker 3: Right, you know what, I think.

689
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: I think your ideas are great idea, Donnie. I think

690
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,760
it would be great as like a TV series or

691
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,360
a documentary, like we're setting out to prove you know,

692
00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:22,079
once and.

693
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 3: For all, Well, most of the times when they try

694
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,119
to set out to prove something. They're using all this

695
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,119
technology that you know, like the EVP and his em

696
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:35,320
meters and stuff, right, if they're dealing with an intelligent

697
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,880
entity and it doesn't want to be seen, it doesn't

698
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:39,599
want to be seen.

699
00:36:41,159 --> 00:36:44,599
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting you brought that up, particularly considering the

700
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:51,280
topic we're talking about tonight, because what we're suggesting about

701
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,840
proving the paranormal, can you do it? Is it, you know,

702
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:59,679
even achievable? Is it even desirable? That's clearly what people

703
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,199
who in every ghost hunting group in you know, these

704
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,840
great United States and the rest of the planet, think

705
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,719
they're doing when they're going out with this technology, right,

706
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,320
they think they're proving it.

707
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: Right, but that technology is based off a number of

708
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:23,519
assumptions that they make about the phenomenon that they're just assumptions, right.

709
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: Exactly, And there's a bias if you're going in there

710
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,119
and you're assuming that this is the spirits of the

711
00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:34,519
dead or its demons or whatever you think it is

712
00:37:34,559 --> 00:37:37,039
when you're going in and if it isn't that, if

713
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:40,000
it's a genuinely anomalous phenomenon which science has yet to

714
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:44,880
pin down, and even if even if there's an intelligence

715
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,639
behind it, there's other questions and which brings me to

716
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:51,079
another point, and that's the Philip experiment, when you know,

717
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,920
there was this attempt by academics to do essentially to

718
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,639
see if they couldn't conjure up you using traditional I think,

719
00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:05,440
you know, spirit communication type techniques like a Ouiji board

720
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,800
and the like. Are totally fabricated entity. And we played

721
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,559
a great found footage film based on it at Midwest

722
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:16,199
we Infest last year. It wasn't the act, but it

723
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,280
was based on the study of the Philip experiment. Was

724
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,679
a very cool found footage film, but it was the

725
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,679
idea that could they create an entity just if they all,

726
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,559
you know, well, we'll name him Philip and he'll be

727
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:30,599
this age and then they actually got this entity coming through.

728
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,679
So there's those kind of interesting experiments that have been attempted,

729
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,800
and that says something else entirely about the phenomenon. It

730
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:45,480
either says that we ourselves are somehow projecting or that

731
00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:49,360
there's something out there which is grabbing onto our assumptions

732
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,840
and then behaving in a chord with those assumptions.

733
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:58,559
Speaker 3: Well, scientific method it's got to be repeatable, right, it's

734
00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:01,840
got to be repeatable, right, I think were you the

735
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,400
one who told me about that one guy? I think

736
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,679
it was like a YouTube video or a short film

737
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,800
or documentary or something where this guy goes out and

738
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,920
he has a satanic ritual curse intentionally put on himself

739
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,639
to see if it actually worked.

740
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:19,639
Speaker 2: No, and I don't think that was made to What

741
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:21,079
do you know about that? I'm curious.

742
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was a YouTube video, but a

743
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,440
guy literally went to a satanic ritual to see to

744
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:31,119
experiment to see if curses were real, and he had

745
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:35,320
an actual curse put on himself and apparently yeah he

746
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,719
I don't think it took very hit long for him

747
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,159
to regret the experiment.

748
00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: And was it a documentary or was it a.

749
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 3: Hmmm, I have to I have to look it up.

750
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:54,719
I think it was like a YouTube documentary style, like

751
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,960
reality show kind of thing where this guy who was

752
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:01,360
running the channel literally out, let's see if this stuff

753
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,239
is real or not, and so he goes and gets

754
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,719
a curse performed on him on purpose.

755
00:40:06,039 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: Interesting. I'd like to see it.

756
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 3: I mean, that's brave. I wouldn't do it.

757
00:40:09,559 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't do it either. Matt Matt Auckland ak

758
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,920
Flat Rockland, a good friend of mine on the shows,

759
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,039
commented that the studies Andrew Gallimore and friends are doing

760
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,559
with long duration d MT, you're finding that people see

761
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:28,280
the same entities and terrain. I'm not totally familiar with

762
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,559
those experiments, but I'm certainly aware of studies and people

763
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:35,199
who've fooled around with experimenting with things like d MT

764
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,639
and ayahuasca and other hallucinogens and find that people undergoing

765
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:45,719
the experience have undergoing the dry have similar experiences. So

766
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,519
that's that's something that can be studied as well.

767
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 3: You're right, man, I found it okay cool Called A

768
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,280
Cursed Man a cursed documentary film that is currently free

769
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:56,519
to watch on YouTube.

770
00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: Oh is it a short or a feature length?

771
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 3: Or the feature length? Oh, documentary? Tell them? It's called

772
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,320
a Cursed Man, where the filmmaker seeks out some of

773
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,599
the world's most powerful dark magic practitioners and ask them

774
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,599
to put a curse on him to see to run

775
00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:18,440
a dark social experiment to see if the stuff actually works. Wow,

776
00:41:19,679 --> 00:41:20,679
I'm gonna check this out.

777
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,519
Speaker 2: Oh. I thought maybe you'd seen it, Okay, so you

778
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:23,480
haven't watched it? Ey though?

779
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:25,599
Speaker 3: No, I watched part of it. I mean I remember

780
00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:27,280
seeing like the idea of it, and I was like, oh,

781
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,639
that's brave. I couldn't recall if you're the one who

782
00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:30,800
told me about it, though.

783
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't me. I'd never heard about it before.

784
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,079
I'm looking forward to it, though.

785
00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:36,519
Speaker 3: A cursed man is what it's called.

786
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 2: Horace made a comment Donnie's experiment would not test or possibilities,

787
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,039
but it would test some alternatives.

788
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: Is what. No, it would be an alternative because you

789
00:41:47,559 --> 00:41:50,480
have to test. Because here's the thing about proving ghosts.

790
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,280
People are doing the same tied techniques over and over

791
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,000
and what are the results they get a random VP

792
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:59,320
of something that might have said a word or like,

793
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:03,800
you know, the results. We've been doing the same experiments

794
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,559
for years and the results are not impressive. I think

795
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:08,760
we people need to start thinking more outside of box

796
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,199
if we're looking to actually get real results, not to

797
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,400
prove this stuff definitively, but at least get better data.

798
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's one of the problems I

799
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,719
think is currently the well. I mean, I'm in two

800
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,639
minds because of course, I think, like everybody in this space,

801
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:35,119
it would be nice to have you know some something

802
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:38,000
that we could somehow pin down with a better collection

803
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:41,760
of data or you know, a better methodology to approach it.

804
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,559
But then the forty in in me just thinks that

805
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:53,039
it's not achievable at all within the current paradigms that

806
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:56,800
are constructed. So we have a lot of data anyway,

807
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,480
I mean, we have thousands of years have reported anomalous

808
00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:03,840
phenomena in whatever of these fields you want to look at,

809
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,800
whether it's lake monsters or hairy man or UFOs or ghosts.

810
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,400
But perhaps one of the problems, Donnie, and I'd like

811
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,800
to hear what you think about this, Maybe it's the data.

812
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,320
Like Jacques Valet, who's I think one of the greatest

813
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,000
thinker is ever in the UFO space. He was an

814
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:26,440
information scientist and an astronomer I think his academic backgrounds.

815
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,039
But he used to say the problem was extracting the

816
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,679
signal from the noise. Do you think that's part of

817
00:43:33,679 --> 00:43:35,400
the problem with the data that we have in these

818
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,800
fields getting there? There's so much data, it's just so noisy,

819
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:44,639
and somewhere in there might be relevant, you know, accounts, relevant,

820
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,800
you know, data points, but extracting it from this sea

821
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:53,840
of hoaxes and misidentifications and exaggerations, and maybe the phenomenon

822
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:59,000
itself doing things irrationally. Who knows, it's difficult to actually

823
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:00,960
find that sign within the noise.

824
00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:04,159
Speaker 3: I think that's definitely a lot more apt depending on

825
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:07,440
the individual phenomenon. For example, I think that's very true

826
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,760
for something like the UFO phenomenon, because there's a lot

827
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,760
of noise, there's a lot of hoaxes, there's a lot

828
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,519
of misidentification because at the end of the day, if

829
00:44:19,559 --> 00:44:25,719
you think about it, it's distant things in the sky.

830
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,159
That kind of thing is not very controllable, right, So yeah,

831
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:35,239
there is going to be a lot of Okay, the

832
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,039
difference with ghosts. Okay, with ghosts, the environment is a

833
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:45,440
lot more controllable because you have a specified location. You

834
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,199
have control over that location. You know, you can control

835
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,920
the parameters or whatever environmental things to suit the needs

836
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:55,639
you know exactly the location of whatever entity you're trying

837
00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:59,519
to prove, right, you can't do that with cryptids or

838
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:04,280
with uf very true. That's why I'm like, if you're

839
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,519
really looking to experiment and really figure out and get

840
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:10,679
creative and apply to scientific method, it's got to be

841
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,840
something like ghosts or psychics, because you want to be

842
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,519
able to control as many variables as you can. Right,

843
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:19,800
is this.

844
00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: Something you yourself would like to do one day? Like

845
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,280
can you can you imagine setting up something like this

846
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,880
and and and doing it?

847
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: I mean it would take a pretty monumental effort to organize,

848
00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:35,039
but maybe not because nobody's ever thought to do it.

849
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:38,400
You wouldn't need to get a bunch of self proclaimed

850
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,519
psychic mediums to volunteer, you know. And then that question

851
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:47,280
is then their legitimacy. Legitimacy is being tested, and you

852
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,320
know how some people are feeling weird about all that.

853
00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:56,159
So all right, have you have you done like an

854
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:58,320
actual paranormal investigation? No?

855
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: I never have, I vote you know. It's it's funny

856
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,320
because now Samantha, my girlfriend who was in the chat before,

857
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,000
people were talking about our compatibility with our star signs,

858
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,079
which was nice. We've started doing a little I don't

859
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:11,119
know if you watched home movie Legend Trip yet.

860
00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:13,559
Speaker 3: I did check it out, thanks man.

861
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 2: So we're filming literally legend trips like going to you know,

862
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,199
do one on the bes of bree Road or you

863
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:24,639
were foething. We're doing another one this coming weekend the

864
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:28,239
ho Dag. So I suspect that sometime in the not

865
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,760
too distant future will end up going to shoot something

866
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,880
like that, you know, an actual paranormal investigation. I myself

867
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:42,000
never have in the past. I'm not sure how how

868
00:46:42,199 --> 00:46:47,840
healthy or risky it is to communicate with spiritual entities

869
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:51,239
or other intelligences when you don't really know what they are.

870
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,320
I mean, you hear the obvious dangers of people bringing

871
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,639
hitchhikers home with entities attaching to them and having all

872
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,559
kinds of problems, and sometimes they can be quite serious.

873
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:04,719
But I do think there's something there I have. I'm

874
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,599
skeptical of what it is and what a lot of

875
00:47:07,639 --> 00:47:11,360
the popular interpretations of it are, but anybody who listens

876
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,880
or watches regularly knows that I know there's a genuine

877
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,360
there's genuine anomalies out there. So I've always been concerned

878
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,000
about going out and trying to engage, you know, an

879
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:27,440
entity that I don't know what it is. I think

880
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,639
if I believed it was a ghost or something, you

881
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,599
know what I mean, I'd be like, Okay, well let's go.

882
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:34,239
But I think because I'm not sure what it is,

883
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,440
I'm not sure how wise it is for me to go,

884
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,960
ha ha, let's go and talk to this. I just

885
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,679
don't know. There's something about it which makes me a

886
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,679
little cringing. That said, I suspect I would film something

887
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,119
like that, but I don't know why myself would want

888
00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:48,960
to go and engage. So Johnny, have you gone out

889
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:49,960
and done something like that?

890
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 3: Or several times and every time it was like, oh, yep,

891
00:47:56,119 --> 00:47:59,239
I think ghosts are actually real. But the thing is,

892
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,800
I was my own direct personal experiment or experience. I

893
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,840
can't go around and being like, oh, off to the world,

894
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,960
be like, gooes are real everyone, I have definitive proof.

895
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,440
I can't do that. It's going back to like similar

896
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,159
to like my Jason story. You can get one hundred

897
00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:18,800
percent definitive proof if it's like a direct personal experience,

898
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,559
and I've had those experience experiences. I saw a dude

899
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:24,679
get attacked by a ghost, like literally right in front

900
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,599
of my face, and then everyone else is with me,

901
00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:29,719
and we all looked at it around each other, We're like, yep,

902
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:31,920
that really happened.

903
00:48:32,559 --> 00:48:34,119
Speaker 2: Gosh.

904
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 3: But all I can do is just tell that story

905
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,960
and hope people believe me. But for me personally, that

906
00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:44,960
was one hundred percent proof. Yep, ghosts are all definitely real.

907
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:52,079
Speaker 2: Did you ever regret any of those experiences or did

908
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:54,079
you ever bring anything home with you? Or did you

909
00:48:54,119 --> 00:48:57,880
ever have a feeling of menace when you were engaging

910
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:58,000
in this?

911
00:48:58,119 --> 00:48:58,199
Speaker 3: Like?

912
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,559
Speaker 2: Is it with a negative experiences? I guess what I'm musking.

913
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,199
Speaker 3: No, because there are I think a lot of the

914
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,679
ways you protect yourself from that kind of stuff is

915
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:18,519
very common sensical, right Number one, don't don't be disrespectful,

916
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:25,880
don't be antagonizing, you know, yeah, I would do like

917
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,440
maybe do a little salt or some stage have an

918
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,920
eye em bracelet like, you know, just ask around, try

919
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,239
to find out in the folklore what are some common

920
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,800
things that people do, and whether or not you agree

921
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,599
you agree with them? If it's like cut that common enough, hey,

922
00:49:40,639 --> 00:49:42,679
there must be it might it's at least worth doing.

923
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,159
But yeah, I hadn't. I never had any personal negative experience.

924
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,920
But I've seen firsthand, like other people like drugly in

925
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:00,719
front of me get completely like turn catatonic, gosh like

926
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,039
completely like right in front of my face. And then

927
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,800
I was with other people and we all looked at

928
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,599
each other, all wide eyed, and we're like, oh, man,

929
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:10,239
this crap is.

930
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: Real and did that The person who had that experience

931
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,440
regretted afterwards was that like, when I'm not doing this again,

932
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:18,199
this is there something evil or right?

933
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,639
Speaker 3: I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't get that from him

934
00:50:20,679 --> 00:50:24,840
because because this was a weekend thing, a weekend long thing.

935
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:29,679
For the rest of the trip, that guy was stone cold, catatonic.

936
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:36,039
Speaker 2: Goodness gracious, and he was just in the corner crying

937
00:50:36,199 --> 00:50:38,480
like did that make did that make you ever go

938
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:40,239
I don't think I should do this again? Or did

939
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,559
it make you more careful or weary or.

940
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: Well, Okay, let me clarify some of the things about

941
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,679
the story. Right, So it was a fairly large group.

942
00:50:48,039 --> 00:50:52,599
It was for the Confessionals with Tony Merkele. So you know,

943
00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:54,519
I was a big fan of Tony Merkel at the

944
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:57,360
time and the Confessionals podcast. So he he organized his

945
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,599
trip for like hardcore fans to go. So I went.

946
00:50:59,639 --> 00:51:04,719
There was like I'd say, like fifteen of us, twenty

947
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,320
of us, okay, and we all went as a group

948
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,880
and it was this big, famously haunted mansion and we

949
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,960
stayed there for the weekend, right two nights, and we

950
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,760
split up into groups, and we all did our own investigations,

951
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,440
you know, we had different equipment and everything. And there

952
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:23,079
was this one guy in the group who wasn't even

953
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:25,559
interested in ghosts. He was more of a cryptid, bigfoot guy.

954
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,679
The guy there just didn't take the thing seriously at all.

955
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,960
He was just he was cracking jokes. He was there

956
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,440
flirting with all the married women, which was kind of gross.

957
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:42,599
He was just trying to be like the center of attention.

958
00:51:43,559 --> 00:51:46,119
And most of the people there, they didn't really like

959
00:51:46,199 --> 00:51:48,199
him because it was pretty obvious what he was doing.

960
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,840
Like he wasn't even a ghost guy. He was a

961
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,079
bigfoot guy. So he took none of this stuff seriously.

962
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,559
And even as the psychic mediums who were like the

963
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:58,360
caretakers of the property, were giving their speeches and their

964
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,599
introductory he was like just kind of goofing off the

965
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:03,800
whole time. And I remember one of them looked over

966
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:05,440
at the other one they were like, oh, man, this

967
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,920
guy's going to get it, because if he goes into

968
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,400
this thing all disrespectful like that, he's going to get it.

969
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,000
And I remember it as me, Tony and a few

970
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:17,159
other people in one room we were doing an investigation

971
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,000
with like these em meters. All of a sudden, we

972
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:25,320
hear like this wailing coming from the hallway outside the room,

973
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,559
like an ugly cry, like if a four year old

974
00:52:28,599 --> 00:52:30,599
girl got like slapped, and like, you know that kind

975
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:34,760
of ugly cry, like the really loud, ugly cry. Right,

976
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,440
so we hear that, we run outside and it's that

977
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:44,000
same guy, and yeah, he's just like hysterically crying at

978
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:47,000
the top of his lungs, and everyone the whole group

979
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:49,880
is just like, what the hell is going And the

980
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:51,920
other people in the group they said like, yeah, this

981
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,239
guy's just you know, joking around in his group. And

982
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,400
apparently when it happened, he said he felt a pair

983
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,480
of hold arms wrapped around him and they were from

984
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:05,079
like a little child's arms because they weren't very high

985
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:08,280
on him, and all of a sudden, whatever being that

986
00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:13,159
was dumped all this emotional psychic sauce right into this guy,

987
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:17,400
and the guy blew a gasket and he was crying hysterically.

988
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,039
And then for the rest of the trip, the guy

989
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:24,440
was just in the corner. Damn, this stuff is real.

990
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:26,920
I remember me and Tony We're looking at each other,

991
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:28,920
was like, yo, this is real. As a heart attack.

992
00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:31,840
Good good, But again, all we could do is just

993
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,400
tell the story and just hope people believe us. But

994
00:53:35,519 --> 00:53:37,360
for me, that was one hundred percent true, like proof,

995
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,920
like yep, supernatural is one hundred percent true. That's all

996
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,039
the convincing I needed.

997
00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I think where they smoke this fire, I

998
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,840
think these places that have all these kind of reports,

999
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,639
there's some kind of energy, there's something there. I'm going

1000
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:53,519
to just roll into a few questions for you because

1001
00:53:53,519 --> 00:53:55,519
they've been building up throughout the night and we've just

1002
00:53:55,559 --> 00:54:00,239
been chatting. Uh there's one from Kaidju Ninja eighty five

1003
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,960
who asks, has Donnie ever experienced possible cryptid activity?

1004
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 3: H No, I've experienced psychic stuff ghost up, and never

1005
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,760
cryptied stuff. I just don't go out in the woods

1006
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,559
very much because I'm not a very outdoorsy guy. I'm

1007
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:18,760
more of a city person, so I'm not there randomly

1008
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,679
for me to encounter something like that, although I can

1009
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:26,079
say that if I ever did, I would probably crap myself.

1010
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 2: It might be a friendly cryptid and horace Smith we

1011
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,920
mentioned before Professor Emmeris of astronomy and physics at Michigan

1012
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,800
State University. Else can psychics carry ghosts into a house.

1013
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:39,679
That's a good question.

1014
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:42,679
Speaker 3: I believe it's only if they have that ghost permission

1015
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,840
and they work in tandem. I don't think that they

1016
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,679
could do it against their will unless they're doing like

1017
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,559
some kind of weird dark magic stuff which should mess

1018
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:53,119
with anyway.

1019
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: Okay. I wonder sometimes if people instead of places are

1020
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,719
home that as well, like sometimes it is in the

1021
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,599
indivir I definitely think so, yeah, it's wanted. We have

1022
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,199
a question again from Matt Rockland. From Matt Auckland, Akay,

1023
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,599
Flat Rockland, what do you think follows folks home from

1024
00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:15,480
the skin Walker Ranch and places like that?

1025
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,599
Speaker 3: I can't tell you definitive, definitively what I what I

1026
00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:28,599
think it is. I could just say that I think

1027
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:31,599
certain people are definitely more vulnerable to being followed home.

1028
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:35,119
I always say like, and this is something they always say,

1029
00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:38,840
like if you have any kind of like chronic illness,

1030
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,760
or you're dealing with like some kind of mental illness

1031
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,639
issues or something where like you as your your overall

1032
00:55:48,039 --> 00:55:52,920
person is vulnerable, don't go to those these things. Don't

1033
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,199
don't leave them many openings. They also say, don't you know,

1034
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,840
don't take any drugs or drink, don't do it the

1035
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,599
night before. I would try to like eat clean and

1036
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:08,960
make sure to stay sober, try to stay sober. But yeah,

1037
00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:12,079
those kinds of things, like very common sensical things like

1038
00:56:12,119 --> 00:56:13,599
if you thought about it, if there was a thing

1039
00:56:13,639 --> 00:56:15,800
that would attach to you, and if there wasn't opening,

1040
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,199
you know, that kind of stuff. I try to abide

1041
00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:21,239
by them, Like I don't have a set set of rules,

1042
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,519
but just be respectful, have common sense, and take care

1043
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:25,119
of yourself.

1044
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll make that will make sense. I do wonder

1045
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,679
if if even and you've obviously had much more experience

1046
00:56:36,679 --> 00:56:38,360
in the field looking at these things, but I do

1047
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,400
wonder if even engaging these entities and opens a kind

1048
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,039
of door, you know, and whether that's going on ghost

1049
00:56:45,079 --> 00:56:48,639
hunts or whether it's doing you know, Ouiji board or

1050
00:56:48,639 --> 00:56:52,079
attempting some kind of you know, psychic communication with the alva.

1051
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I'll tell you specifically what

1052
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,760
I did when my first time and every time I've

1053
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,400
gone to an investigation go to a place that I

1054
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,800
know is haunted. See. I used to do a lot

1055
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,360
of martial arts as a kid. I don't know if

1056
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,320
you've done, but like, if you ever did traditional martial arts.

1057
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,800
What's the first thing you do when you walk into

1058
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,599
a dojo and you try to take off your shoes? Well, yeah, right, so,

1059
00:57:18,519 --> 00:57:20,239
and they say, the reason why you do that is

1060
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,639
you want to show respect to your ancients, your elders,

1061
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:29,280
and whatever spirits are there. Right, there's a very folklourish,

1062
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,000
supernatural component to that. And maybe so I always believe

1063
00:57:33,039 --> 00:57:34,800
that there were some legs I had a martial arts

1064
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,480
background myself. I look at me, big surprise, right, So,

1065
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:39,599
but I did.

1066
00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: What I did A few opts my day. What did

1067
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:41,679
you do?

1068
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 3: What was your taikwondo and judo?

1069
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:45,239
Speaker 2: Nice?

1070
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 3: So in that mansion, I remember on that particular trip

1071
00:57:49,519 --> 00:57:51,920
where that thing happened with that guy, every time I

1072
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,199
walked into a different room, like for the first time,

1073
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,440
I always bound like I was out of dojo, and

1074
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,239
I always just say very quickly to myself, I'm not

1075
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,159
here to mess with you, so please don't mess with me.

1076
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,760
I'm just here to meet these people and just hang out,

1077
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,320
no disrespect. And that was like the little thought I

1078
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,360
would do as I would bow every time I walked

1079
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:11,519
into a room for the first time.

1080
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: Interesting do you think we've talked about a little bit

1081
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,800
before on the show that there might be a different

1082
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,159
cultural approach in Asia to dealing with these type of

1083
00:58:22,159 --> 00:58:26,039
things to traditional, you know, Western culture's ways of dealing

1084
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:28,519
with these kind of things. Well maybe not even traditional

1085
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:30,639
might be the wrong way modern Western ways of dealing

1086
00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:31,639
with these kind of things.

1087
00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:34,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's also a lot of I actually think

1088
00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:36,360
the more interesting thing is how many things are similar

1089
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,719
because that whole bowing thing, I think that lean lends

1090
00:58:43,719 --> 00:58:47,639
credence to the same idea that a lot of Western

1091
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,760
paranormal people have was that you basically just make sure

1092
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:56,320
you're not disrespectful. Because back to my earlier story, who

1093
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,320
was the guy that got the brunt of all that?

1094
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:00,960
It was a disrespectful guy.

1095
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 2: Interesting.

1096
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:05,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I asked those psychic medium caretakers afterwards.

1097
00:59:05,679 --> 00:59:07,800
I was like, you knew this was gonna happen, right,

1098
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,000
They're like, yeah, we knew, And I was like, how'd

1099
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,559
you know? And they're like, because every group that comes

1100
00:59:12,599 --> 00:59:14,440
in here, there's always that one guy who's just there

1101
00:59:14,519 --> 00:59:16,800
because his girlfriend is there and they don't take it

1102
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,039
seriously and they make a joke out of everything, and

1103
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:21,039
they're they're always the ones who get it.

1104
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is interesting. That's your experiences the people who

1105
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:32,000
aren't giving it enough reverence or paying enough attention to

1106
00:59:33,239 --> 00:59:35,639
the reality of the situation there, And that makes sense.

1107
00:59:35,679 --> 00:59:38,519
Speaker 3: I guess there were some other weirdos there though, Like

1108
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:40,880
there are other people. So the other thing is like

1109
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,719
the far the other end of it, or the people

1110
00:59:42,719 --> 00:59:45,039
who are like too respectful to the point where they're

1111
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:49,239
like obsessed with it. That's another form of vulnerability. I

1112
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:53,719
feel like people have again common sense, right, so like

1113
00:59:54,079 --> 00:59:56,159
I feel like you just need to have a healthy mentality,

1114
00:59:56,639 --> 01:00:01,239
you know. I would recommend for you personally, I really

1115
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,960
think you should do, like for especially for the show

1116
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,159
that you're doing. You should do like an overnight investigation

1117
01:00:08,519 --> 01:00:10,599
at a location that you know is haunted, or like

1118
01:00:10,599 --> 01:00:14,800
a at a haunted B and B C. For yourself.

1119
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that might be a good.

1120
01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 3: Show, supernatural but controllable environment. I mean, you can't force

1121
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,840
yourself to have a UFO experience. What are you gonna

1122
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,559
do just walk around start the sky all day?

1123
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: Well there is the C Did you did you watch

1124
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,800
the C five episode that we dropped on Sunday?

1125
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 3: That one I haven't seen yet.

1126
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a new episode. We went a couple of

1127
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:39,719
weeks ago, Sam and I went. We were invited to

1128
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:44,000
a private C five event thanks to Melissa Kine, who

1129
01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:49,760
is a friend of ours and runs Contact Modalities, which sat, yeah,

1130
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,119
I think you'll enjoy it, and and Zach Screedy, who

1131
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,519
runs the event, who's a lovely guy. And Sam and

1132
01:00:56,559 --> 01:00:58,559
I went to the event, and I don't want to

1133
01:00:58,559 --> 01:01:04,000
spoil the episode, but we saw anomalous things in the sky.

1134
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:10,079
Speaker 3: You saw for yourself, yeah, was it enough to convince

1135
01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:10,840
you personally?

1136
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 2: Well, I already think there are normalous things. I just

1137
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:16,719
don't know what they are, do you know what I mean?

1138
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:22,360
So I've I I don't. I think my problem is

1139
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,800
I think somebody who sits in my perspective is well,

1140
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,960
it looks at things from my perspective. Rather is that

1141
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,159
I don't doubt that people having anomalous experiences all the time.

1142
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,079
I don't know what they are, you know, Like, so

1143
01:01:38,639 --> 01:01:41,800
it's not enough to convince me that they're extraterrestrials, but

1144
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:44,480
it's enough to convince me that, yes, people see strange

1145
01:01:44,519 --> 01:01:45,360
things in the sky, but.

1146
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 3: There's something there's some legs that is whole C five things.

1147
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think there's legs to you know, widgi boards,

1148
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:54,800
and I think there's legs to you know, people who

1149
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,760
go out into the woods and you know, try to

1150
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,599
connect with things in the woods, whether those things bigfoot

1151
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:03,840
or you know, gnomes or the fairfolk or whatever. I

1152
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,800
think people can have a dialogue. Of dialogue might be

1153
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,199
the wrong. I think they can have an experience with

1154
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,920
the other right, But I don't know what that is

1155
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,360
that they're experiencing. I really don't. I don't know what's it,

1156
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,079
and I don't know how much of it is comes

1157
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:23,360
from us, comes from our own in a space, and

1158
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,400
I don't know how much of it is separate. When

1159
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,239
I say separate, I mean how different is the experience

1160
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,920
you have when you do it might manifest differently, but

1161
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,920
I don't know if when you have a wigi board experience,

1162
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,920
if it's particularly different from having a C five experience.

1163
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,119
To be honest, you're contacting, you're asking for a response

1164
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,960
from something which you know is an US, and you're

1165
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,159
getting a response from something that isn't US. That doesn't

1166
01:02:54,159 --> 01:02:56,559
mean I think that when somebody is using a wigi board,

1167
01:02:56,599 --> 01:02:58,800
they're talking to the spirits of the dead, And it

1168
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,119
doesn't mean, I necessarily think when somebody is doing a

1169
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:04,760
C five event that it's extraterrestrials that are piloting the

1170
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,559
things above them. But I think we are. I'm fairly

1171
01:03:10,039 --> 01:03:14,760
certain that we can elicit engagement with something which is

1172
01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:18,960
I don't want to say entirely separate, because I don't

1173
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:20,880
know how connected we are. I don't know how much

1174
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,199
this is, you know, a co creation theory, like Greg

1175
01:03:23,239 --> 01:03:27,800
Bishop writes about in the late Robbie Grahame's book with

1176
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,199
a collection of essays called UFOs, reframing the debate. The

1177
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,880
idea is that we might be partaking in the creation

1178
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,400
of what we're seeing, but that doesn't mean there isn't

1179
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:41,840
an external intelligence from us feeding into that experience as well.

1180
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,519
So yeah, I do think there are legs to all

1181
01:03:44,639 --> 01:03:46,760
the all the I even think when people and you know,

1182
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,800
I don't think there's Harry hominids running around the woods

1183
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,159
of North America. But I do think people are having

1184
01:03:52,199 --> 01:03:55,639
experiences when they're out in the woods. I think they're

1185
01:03:55,719 --> 01:03:56,719
encountering something.

1186
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: I really need to see this episode now, is.

1187
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,039
Speaker 2: It yet or we dropped it on Sunday? It's there.

1188
01:04:04,199 --> 01:04:07,400
If people go to a home movie Legendship dot com

1189
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:12,239
or just home movie Legendship on on YouTube. They'll they'll

1190
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:15,199
find it. It's uh, Sam and I really enjoyed this one,

1191
01:04:15,199 --> 01:04:18,280
and it was it's it's it's a fun episode.

1192
01:04:18,639 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 3: I found it.

1193
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think Sam, because I don't know

1194
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,760
if there's a moulderin Scully to us, but I probably

1195
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,000
am the Mulder, even though I'm more of a John

1196
01:04:31,079 --> 01:04:35,039
Keel and Sam's more, you know, she's more just you know.

1197
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 3: Let me ask you though, I'm curious. So when you

1198
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,960
were when you did finally witnessed this phenomenon in the sky,

1199
01:04:42,159 --> 01:04:45,800
what was going through your head? What was what was

1200
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,920
was it like? Was it? Were you excited? Were you

1201
01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:50,079
was there adrenaline? Was there? Yeah?

1202
01:04:50,079 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 2: I was, I was excited. I don't know if there

1203
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,880
was I was excited. But the thing is too, when

1204
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,480
I'm when i'm filming, I'm always in the space of

1205
01:04:57,519 --> 01:04:59,719
all I got to capture, you know, people's reactions, and

1206
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:01,960
I day it's like a war I guess it's like

1207
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:04,719
you hear and it's I'm not comparing myself to a

1208
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,639
war photographer because I'd probably be miserable and I probably

1209
01:05:07,639 --> 01:05:11,079
be terrified. But it's like I've read interviewers with war

1210
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:14,000
photographers that are attached when they're taking the photos. Do

1211
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,480
you know what I mean when? And I think it's

1212
01:05:16,519 --> 01:05:19,280
similar to that when I'm filming anything, Like Sam will

1213
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:20,719
tell you that I get in this weird head and

1214
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:21,599
it doesn't matter.

1215
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,679
Speaker 3: What you're too much in filmmaker mode.

1216
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,119
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, I'm like, how am I? You know? What?

1217
01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:27,599
Can I get to make this a you know?

1218
01:05:27,679 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 3: So?

1219
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,559
Speaker 2: I think in a way, I think and Sam can

1220
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:33,639
correct me if I'm wrong. In the chat, I think

1221
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:35,800
in a way Sam was even though she was filming

1222
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,920
as well because we had two cameras. In a way,

1223
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,679
I think Sam was more excited. I was excited too,

1224
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,679
But I really think because she I suspected some I

1225
01:05:43,719 --> 01:05:45,960
suspect that we would see things, and I think Sam thought,

1226
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,079
there's no way we're going to see anything. But anyway,

1227
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:49,039
that comes out in the episode.

1228
01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:51,159
Speaker 3: So I don't want to speak. If Godzilla were a

1229
01:05:51,239 --> 01:05:53,480
real thing, you'd be that one guy who, like everyone's

1230
01:05:53,519 --> 01:05:55,480
running away from Godzilla and you're the one guy comes

1231
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:56,480
out with a camera.

1232
01:05:57,719 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: Like, dude, move and then he squashes on squashes me flat.

1233
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 3: Probably I need to get this shot and he just

1234
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,039
gets stomped on pretty much.

1235
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a great experience.

1236
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,199
Speaker 3: Remember did you watch God's on the Minus one?

1237
01:06:10,599 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 2: I did so, and what the and there's God's Minus

1238
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:13,679
zero coming out.

1239
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 3: So we were in that one scene where there were

1240
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:18,280
those like Japanese filmmakers on the roof and they're like, oh,

1241
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,360
we got to capture does it the gods wligious smash

1242
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:20,800
the roof?

1243
01:06:21,159 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 2: That'd be me. I would have been the crew. My

1244
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:26,159
daughter loved that movie is well, she's such a fan

1245
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,280
of card I raised from all the old ones, so

1246
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,840
she was big enough to see that one when it

1247
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,280
came out. And obviously now we've watched all the you know,

1248
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,400
cong versus God's the whole new you know, monarchy universe stuff.

1249
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 3: So it's gonna be bittersweet when that next one came

1250
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:43,960
comes out. You know, two of those actors have already left.

1251
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah that we we I know, we lost the little

1252
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,480
girl who was the other one.

1253
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:49,639
Speaker 3: We lost Sam Neil?

1254
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,519
Speaker 2: Oh are we Samuel in? Is Samuel in the TV

1255
01:06:54,599 --> 01:06:56,320
show Monarch or No?

1256
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,239
Speaker 3: Sam Neil is going to be in this next Oh.

1257
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,079
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I think of a Jurassic Park.

1258
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:04,159
Speaker 3: I was It's his final No, it's his final movie.

1259
01:07:04,199 --> 01:07:04,960
It's his final film.

1260
01:07:05,239 --> 01:07:07,559
Speaker 2: Oh, I did you know what? I didn't even know that,

1261
01:07:10,199 --> 01:07:14,400
Sam says, I was more excited talking about the both

1262
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,159
of us. And but then you would be happy to

1263
01:07:18,199 --> 01:07:21,199
be hit by a car to get the shots you.

1264
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 3: Guys, You guys have to do like a paranormal like

1265
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,159
haunted location. That's got to be one of one of

1266
01:07:27,199 --> 01:07:29,079
the places. I would would you know what I would do.

1267
01:07:29,159 --> 01:07:32,400
I would just research like the most haunted location in

1268
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,679
your state and just spend the night there.

1269
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:38,519
Speaker 2: In film it, Well, Sam and I stayed in a

1270
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:41,360
really haunted hotel in Milwaukee. But at the time I

1271
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:42,119
didn't even know.

1272
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,079
Speaker 3: You didn't even know it was I didn't even know.

1273
01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 2: It was haunted. Sam had a question I have. I've

1274
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:49,920
been so engaged with you. I'm sorry to the chat.

1275
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,519
I haven't been engaging at all. Sam asked, how do

1276
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:55,320
we know ghosts are more control than any other phenomenon.

1277
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,320
How can we assume that they will stay in the

1278
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:58,079
same location.

1279
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 3: Well, only because it's the location that gets reported, right,

1280
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:06,280
like if there was a ghost of if it was

1281
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,280
like the ghosts of the Sally House, and then you

1282
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,320
know she's being reported out of Walmart, like down the road.

1283
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,519
That's one thing. But what's famous is the Sally House

1284
01:08:14,519 --> 01:08:18,199
because all those experiences are being centralized in that one

1285
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:23,720
location that is predictable, right, It's the most predictable thing

1286
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:27,079
of all the phenomena that are the most like you

1287
01:08:27,119 --> 01:08:30,800
can you know at least you're in the right spot.

1288
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,600
Whereas let's say you go to the LBL looking for

1289
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:38,000
dog Man. How big is the LBL? How big is

1290
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:41,479
that Davy Crockett National Force or whatever? Right?

1291
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: Right?

1292
01:08:42,079 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 3: She want to be able to cover every inch in

1293
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:49,000
one look in one investigation. I mean, the human human

1294
01:08:49,119 --> 01:08:52,680
capability of covering ground can only take you so far. Which,

1295
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,119
by the way, I think if people were really serious

1296
01:08:55,119 --> 01:08:58,640
about finding cryptids, they shouldn't be hiking into woods or

1297
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,520
trukking into woods. They should be using drones.

1298
01:09:01,119 --> 01:09:03,199
Speaker 2: Just quickly, just quickly. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point,

1299
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,680
just quickly dug four five four, three hours. Do you

1300
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,239
think people joking around, et cetera doing that to mask

1301
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:12,279
bear fear of what might happen? This is obviously talking

1302
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:17,199
about the type of paranormal investigations you've been on, Donnie.

1303
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 3: That particular guy, No, that particular guy was there to peacock,

1304
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:24,760
to show off and to alpha of everyone. It was

1305
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,520
pretty gross and it was pretty obvious what he was doing.

1306
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,960
Interesting And because he was doing that before we even

1307
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,039
got to the location, like we had got to a

1308
01:09:34,079 --> 01:09:35,960
couple other places, and he was like that the whole time.

1309
01:09:37,239 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: Interesting. W Robinson one seven oh two says, I think

1310
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,840
New Orleans is a place where the veil is thin

1311
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,119
between this world and the next. I've been in New

1312
01:09:46,199 --> 01:09:49,159
Orleans and I certainly found it super dark and super weird. There,

1313
01:09:49,159 --> 01:09:51,479
I felt, and I'm not somebody who walks into places

1314
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,000
like all, there's a presence. I felt a heaviness when

1315
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,720
I was in New Orleans. I felt something was a

1316
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,680
little off. Fun place to go about drinking and being

1317
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:00,560
an idiot, but it still felt something was.

1318
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 3: I've never been there, but it's always the place I

1319
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:03,399
wanted to visit.

1320
01:10:06,039 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe maybe we can all meet up

1321
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,640
there one day. You mem Sam can come.

1322
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,079
Speaker 3: Maybe you should do an episode of you going on

1323
01:10:14,199 --> 01:10:15,880
investigation with like all of us.

1324
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 2: That would be phenomenal. We have to work that out.

1325
01:10:20,279 --> 01:10:21,079
That would be so.

1326
01:10:21,319 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 3: We missed such an opportunity because when we were at

1327
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,640
Crossing Realms. It was at Harnam Museum.

1328
01:10:26,119 --> 01:10:29,119
Speaker 2: We weren't doing that. If I'd been shooting the show,

1329
01:10:29,159 --> 01:10:31,319
then I totally would have gone, let's go do the

1330
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:37,239
do an episode in that horn and museum.

1331
01:10:37,279 --> 01:10:39,560
Speaker 3: We got to talk about this because I was telling

1332
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,600
the group before. I was like, next time we all

1333
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,720
get together like this, let's not do a convention. Let's

1334
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,520
just us get together and do an investigation and just

1335
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,960
film content for our respective shows.

1336
01:10:50,199 --> 01:10:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1337
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,039
Speaker 3: I feel like that'd be a much more fun and

1338
01:10:52,079 --> 01:10:55,199
productive time. The conference was great and all, but it

1339
01:10:55,239 --> 01:10:56,840
was a lot of work and we didn't even have

1340
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,600
time to like really soak it in and enjoy it.

1341
01:10:59,680 --> 01:10:59,880
You know.

1342
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 2: Well, no, that's true, and I think I think, yeah,

1343
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:05,880
you could still do it like an annual meet up

1344
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,720
with all with everybody you wanted there, and not have

1345
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,199
to have the pressure of having stands and speakers and.

1346
01:11:13,079 --> 01:11:17,119
Speaker 3: They actually productive because then we could all come on

1347
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,319
with our recording equipment and film it and have a

1348
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:21,319
lot of great content.

1349
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 2: That would be amazing. Yeah, we're getting lots of suggestions

1350
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,479
for shows in the chatnut Squatch Mama says Baraboo, which

1351
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,520
isn't too far from here. Squatch Mama. We actually almost

1352
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:37,079
did something in Baraboo recently and we probably still are

1353
01:11:37,079 --> 01:11:41,239
going to and w Robinson says, Dean and Sam should

1354
01:11:41,279 --> 01:11:42,920
come to the Myrders plantation here in.

1355
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 3: Far Have you been traveling for this, for this show

1356
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,640
that you're doing now for Home Legend Home Movie Legends trips?

1357
01:11:50,359 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 2: We well, we've only I'm trying to think, what's the first.

1358
01:11:55,039 --> 01:11:57,680
We haven't left with Wisconsin yet, although we planned so.

1359
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,399
I think the where would the furthest where we've been

1360
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,319
north in the state to Rhyanland where the hotel the

1361
01:12:04,359 --> 01:12:07,000
hodag Legend is, and we've been south to Bray Road,

1362
01:12:07,079 --> 01:12:11,159
which is you know, down kind of Milwaukee Way. And

1363
01:12:13,039 --> 01:12:17,520
this more recent trip was also we're in the Bernies,

1364
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,920
but it was probably it was only probably an hour

1365
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:21,920
and a half from us in the Bernies. It was

1366
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,039
just another Boonies, you know what I mean. So we

1367
01:12:24,119 --> 01:12:26,920
haven't done a long one yet. I think what we'd

1368
01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:30,079
like to get up to speed to do is go, Okay,

1369
01:12:30,119 --> 01:12:31,720
we're going to do a two week trip and we're

1370
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,079
going to hit these five locations, you know what I mean,

1371
01:12:34,119 --> 01:12:36,399
and drive and do a road trip and get five

1372
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,600
or six episodes that'll be in the next ones, that

1373
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,680
Wisconsin one as well. The one we're shooting this coming

1374
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:42,680
weekend is well, so you.

1375
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,520
Speaker 3: Thought about down the road doing locations where you would

1376
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:46,239
have to fly out to.

1377
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would not be adverse to flying, so we're

1378
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:55,079
eventually down the road. I think, have you got somewhere

1379
01:12:55,079 --> 01:12:55,840
for us, Dony?

1380
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 3: I noticed there's a lot of people in this paranormal

1381
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:03,319
fields who don't like flying. I find it's so hard. Yeah,

1382
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:08,239
we're probably going to this year steal. Sam and I

1383
01:13:08,279 --> 01:13:10,399
will probably fly at least two or three times to

1384
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,640
film festivals and things, so we're not adverse to flying

1385
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:14,000
at all.

1386
01:13:14,039 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, we'd fly somewhere. They're driving, driving so

1387
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:25,680
much fun. And Sam wants to go to Louisiana, so

1388
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:28,279
maybe we will go to Louisiana to shoot something. There's

1389
01:13:28,319 --> 01:13:30,359
all kinds of stuff you could do in Louisiana. You

1390
01:13:30,359 --> 01:13:32,199
know what you could do falc Monster as well. You

1391
01:13:32,199 --> 01:13:34,359
could go that Texakhana kind of part, and you could

1392
01:13:34,399 --> 01:13:36,800
go and do weird stuff in New Orleans. Anyway, people

1393
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:40,359
don't want to hear my plans for home movie Legendship

1394
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:42,760
John it Man, it was great talking to you. I

1395
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,439
can't wait to talk to you again. I think you

1396
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,760
and I and Jason McLean are doing a show sometime

1397
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:47,560
soon on your.

1398
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 3: Chair planning in By the way, can I plug myself

1399
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:52,199
real quick?

1400
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 2: So I was there. That's why I'm thinking too.

1401
01:13:54,239 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 3: For those of you who've been following my show, you

1402
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,880
don't notice that there's been I haven't put out any

1403
01:14:00,039 --> 01:14:02,560
content in the last few months, mostly because of my

1404
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:05,960
move and life's gotten the way. My saturdays have gotten busy.

1405
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,520
But I do plan on putting out content, but it's

1406
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,119
not going to be like what I was doing before

1407
01:14:12,119 --> 01:14:14,079
it was just like a weekly live I'm going to

1408
01:14:14,079 --> 01:14:19,359
be doing my I plan on making my episodes to

1409
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:21,920
be projects that I put like a couple of weeks into.

1410
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,760
I've recently been learning, like deep diving into video editing.

1411
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:29,600
I've been teaching myself these past few weeks for the

1412
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:30,399
very first time.

1413
01:14:31,359 --> 01:14:33,640
Speaker 2: So you enjoy just quickly. You enjoying it because I

1414
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:37,680
this is my forte. I guess I love editing so much.

1415
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,359
Speaker 3: I'm enjoying it because it's finally allowing me to tell

1416
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:46,159
the story that I want to tell. Because I have

1417
01:14:46,279 --> 01:14:50,479
these like really out there podcast episodes on my show,

1418
01:14:51,159 --> 01:14:53,560
but without the without the use of video editing, it's

1419
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,840
just a static picture and the live stream screen, you know,

1420
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,359
live stream and the stream yard or whatever. That's all

1421
01:14:59,359 --> 01:15:01,680
it is. Maybe you could throw up a picture or

1422
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:04,039
put up a screen share for a YouTube video or something.

1423
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,560
But with video editing, I'm like, I feel like I'm

1424
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:12,600
finally able to execute my vision. That's fantastic and that's

1425
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:16,000
a very empowering feeling. So this coming Saturday, and Donnie

1426
01:15:16,039 --> 01:15:20,159
cho says stuff will be my first fully edited episode. Wow,

1427
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,039
please check it out. I put several weeks into this. Well,

1428
01:15:25,119 --> 01:15:29,720
I learned at video editing for this, and uh, if

1429
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:34,119
you are easily offended by low brow humor, I would say,

1430
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:36,760
don't watch it. It is rated R. It's a heavy

1431
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:37,479
rated R.

1432
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 2: So wow, well, Johnny, let me know when it's that

1433
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:43,000
I'll share it.

1434
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 3: And by the way, it is a debate between me

1435
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:51,800
and Jason McClean about Buddhism versus Christianity. Oh wow, deep

1436
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:58,520
and profound debate, but hilarious, hilarity and menace ensues so

1437
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,279
that the episode.

1438
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 2: Oh man, I can't wait to watch it myself.

1439
01:16:03,319 --> 01:16:04,720
Speaker 3: You got to watch it this weekend and tell me

1440
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:06,640
what you think. Tell me what you think about my

1441
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,920
editing skills. They're very like basic, but I will man,

1442
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:10,359
I'm glad.

1443
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 2: It's a it's a great It's a very empowering thing

1444
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:19,520
to be able to cut together a story. In fact,

1445
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:23,119
in many ways, I think it's the most In many ways,

1446
01:16:23,159 --> 01:16:25,680
it's my favorite part of the filmmaking process. As much

1447
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:27,560
as I like shooting, as much as like being on

1448
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:30,560
location or set, When you're in the edit, you're actually

1449
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,680
putting together a story, and that's a powerful feeling that

1450
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:38,279
you you know, it's just putting audio and video and

1451
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,760
music and blending it to your wheel and.

1452
01:16:42,039 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 3: It's really time consuming though, But I think that most

1453
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,319
of it is just because I'm such a new beaditor.

1454
01:16:46,399 --> 01:16:49,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get quicker at it. Yeah, you get quicker.

1455
01:16:49,279 --> 01:16:51,159
People in the chat sound excited about it as well,

1456
01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:54,359
So that's good. Well man, Yeah, we'll check out. Donnie

1457
01:16:54,399 --> 01:17:00,479
Cho says stuff this Sunday. The latest video drops this Saturday, Saturday.

1458
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 3: Okay, I would say the title, but there's an F

1459
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:05,800
bomb in there. It's like, yeah the show.

1460
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's you can just say title f bomb

1461
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:10,600
then the rest of it if you want to.

1462
01:17:11,399 --> 01:17:14,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just Jason McLean Christian.

1463
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 2: Af I'm sure Jason was over the moon about that

1464
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,800
as well. God bless him. Oh yeah, Johnny Man, it

1465
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,000
was such a delight to talk to you. It always is,

1466
01:17:25,039 --> 01:17:27,000
and I'm looking forward to doing your show with Jason

1467
01:17:27,079 --> 01:17:27,760
sometime soon.

1468
01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be fun. We'll plan it out, we'll

1469
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:31,800
hash it out.

1470
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,119
Speaker 2: And until I get to talk to you again, Donnie,

1471
01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:38,399
which hopefully will be very shortly when I do that episode,

1472
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:39,000
I just it's.

1473
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,239
Speaker 3: Going to be soon. It's gonna be soon. Jason really

1474
01:17:41,319 --> 01:17:45,079
wants to do this episode. By the way he keeps

1475
01:17:45,119 --> 01:17:46,760
messaging me about it, he must.

1476
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 2: Be prepared to try to give me the philosophical beating

1477
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:50,600
that he hopes to.

1478
01:17:51,279 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll sit back and let you guys do that.

1479
01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:55,039
Speaker 2: I was I was teasing today, like I'm just gonna

1480
01:17:55,079 --> 01:17:57,920
drop a few stunners and throw down some beerstone cold style.

1481
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,399
That'll be the show. Yeah, few stars, one, two, three,

1482
01:18:01,399 --> 01:18:05,359
and our pound biers like Austin back in the glory days.

1483
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 3: Just be sure to pause an emoti lot just to

1484
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,439
give the editor a little bit of a we're cutting

1485
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:11,239
everything together.

1486
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 2: That's a good point. That's a good point. Well, Donnie,

1487
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,479
we'll chat soon and I'm looking forward to it. And

1488
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:19,840
until I talk to you, Donnie, and until I talk

1489
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:24,439
to everybody else out there, which will be same Weird time,

1490
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:29,319
which is Thursday, nine pm Central, Same Weird network, the

1491
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,760
Untold Radio Network. Please keep it weird,