Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.
Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.
Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because.
Speaker 2: I put my hand on a book and made a.
Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2: I was thinking recently about all the things that you
and I do that make almost no sense, that we've
simply accepted, we've simply gotten used to. I'm preparing several
speech ideas for the future. I've always got something percolating, right,
and I've got one about bad atheist arguments. A lot
of the meme verse in the atheist culture. It's the
secular movement. I see a lot of stuff that shared
out there that I just cannot stand because it's just wrong.
I mean it's not just toxic and off putting and
superior and snobby and stupid, but it just factually makes
no sense. Religion is a mental illness. It is a
claim that I often see or you know, the reason
that things are more peaceful on Sunday mornings is because
the evil people are at church. I actually saw a
meme that said that are you shitting me? You know,
it's just so wrongheaded. So I go point by point
through bad positions and statements that atheists have made, but
that doesn't feel ass topical. I just did another one
that I'm going to be touring with about how Jesus
looks different in different cultures throughout our history, and those
Jesus has often looked like those who believed in him.
I'm also thinking about doing one on parental advice, things
that we were always taught and told that you know,
we accept it as really good advice, when the truth
is it's just not life wisdom that on the surface
makes sense until you stop and think about it. So
I'm thinking about doing an entire presentation of live speech
as I head out and speak in different cities, but
just a few examples of some of the things that
have been driving me crazy. Advice that's actually bad advice,
like don't go to bed angry on the surface. I understand,
try to resolve the conflict before you call it a day.
You know, don't put it off if there's an opportunity,
let's see if some kind of resolution can be had.
On the surface, it sounds really good and I get that,
but overall, if you dig past the surface layer, it's
shit advice. If you have been wronged, or if there
is an injustice or if there is something that is
outrageous that is happening, you have no obligation to not
go to bed outraged about it. Go to bed angry.
Anger is the natural response to the outrageous Why would
you not be angry? And then also puts the burden
on you to try to resolve a conflict that may
not be irresolvable. Let's say you're in the middle of
an argument with a life partner or a child or
someone who's being totally unreasonable, even toxic, and somehow you're
supposed to resolve it just so you don't go to
bed angry. That may not be possible, it may not
even be healthy. Never go to bed angry. It's bad advice.
At the very least, it's extremely reductive advice. And yet
we've always heard this counselors and pastors and parents are
telling people, you know, let me give you this wisdom,
try not to go to bed angry. All natural means
it's better for you. You are well ahead of me
on this one, right. I was reading an article by
immunologist doctor Andrea Love about our war on chemicals. I
won't eat it if it's chemical. I won't drink it
if it's chemical. And I'm thinking, good luck with that,
because everything is chemical, natural good, chemical bad or natural
good artificial bad is kind of how it has been phrasing.
You and I, of course, are going through a laundry
list of so many of the things that are all
natural that will freaking kill you. And we can all
think of examples of how science and scientific modifications have
actually made safer the natural world. You get into it
a relationship and they say, well, opposites attract. Maybe sometimes
they do. Sometimes they cause people to clash because they
have absolutely no common ground. Sometimes people with more in
common are more or compatible. To say opposites attract, Hey,
maybe it works with magnets. But this is not sound
relationship advice. It's not something that you should use for
a rule book for establishing intimacy with another human being.
That which does not kill you makes you stronger. What
a bunch of crap? That is, The idea that trauma,
pain and suffering and harm and all this stuff develops resilience. Well,
sometimes sometimes you go out there and you literally do
have to develop tougher skin than coping mechanisms. You have
to be able to adapt to a harder environment to survive.
We see this throughout nature in some contexts, okay, But
in other contexts we see that there is just simply
pain and suffering, and we are not stronger. We are weaker,
and we are beaten down, and we are absolutely defeated
and miserable and often live much shorter lives. That which
does not kill us may make us weaker. Another one
was if you're looking for a life partner, find somebody
who can't live without you. What a horrible piece of
advice that is. There's that song I can't live if
living is without you? Who sings that song? I can't
live if living is without you? Who sings that song?
What a terrible song? But because what is the song saying?
If we're not together, if you break up with me,
I'm either going to die of heartache or I'm gonna
freaking off myself. This is not healthy. That's not healthy,
and that's not something I think you would look for
in a partner. Well, I don't want to break up
with this person because they may off themselves. Is kind
of a bad model for a relationship. Find somebody you
can't live without, it's just horrible. Find somebody who can
live without you, but chooses to be with you. There's
a comedie named Chris Porter and he said, you know,
I was told I'm supposed to find somebody who can't
live without me, And he said, that's terrible advice. Living
with someone like that is like having a puppy that
can text you. Yeah, that's pretty accurate. Sticks and stones
may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
I don't know who came up with that one, but
they just need to be kneecapped right now because words. Language,
I'm telling you, language has the power to destroy people.
How many people? How many times have you in your
life been told something? Words, vowels, and consonants are raged
in a specific order. Something was said to you that
broke you, broke your heart, devastated you, maybe impacted how
you felt about yourself or the world around you. How
many people have struggled throughout their lives. I was watching
a documentary about the nineteen eighty US hockey team, and
for those who are not familiar with the story, just
a real quick setup. For twenty years previously to nineteen eighty,
the Soviet Union's hockey team was the dominant hockey team
in the world. They were professional hockey players, that's all
they did, and they dominated and crushed the competition. They
played American teams, including the NHL, and crushed the pros.
They just crushed everybody. And so Herb Brooks, the coach
of the nineteen eighty team, rounds up this sort of
scrappy bunch of college kids and he develops a plan
to actually try and defeat the Soviet Union, something that very,
very very few people thought was possible. And of course
many are familiar with the story. You've seen the documentaries.
There is a Disney film called Miracle starring Kurt Russell.
It's a great film that's actually pretty true to the
facts as well. I was impressed with you know, I mean,
they got really close. But there was a part of
that story that not a lot of people know. And
one of the reasons that coach Herb Brooks was so
obsessed with taking the team to the gold medalist because
years and years and years before he had been a player,
and he was on the US Olympic hockey team, and
the day before they went to the Olympics, he was
the last player who was cut. They have a few
extra players and then they have to whittle it down
to I think twenty players before they go to the Olympics.
So they start with twenty five, twenty four, twenty three,
and the night before they go to the Olympics, Herb
Brooks has called into the office and the coach says,
I'm sorry, I've got to let you go. You are
the last member of the team that will be released.
And he never got to go. And he is home
and he's watching the Olympics with his parents and he's
watching as the United States took the gold medal and
his father looked at her and he said, you know,
looks like they cut the right player. And it devastated
Herb Brooks. He carried that with him for decades now.
Some would argue that it motivated him to greatness, but
I don't think he needed that I don't think you
have to wreck somebody in their identity. I don't think
you have to punish, torture somebody because what they didn't
quite make the Olympic team. And I think to myself,
those were words. Sticks and stones may break my bones,
but words can devastate someone. He carried those words to
his grave. Just bad advice. Spare the rod, spoil the child,
horrible advice. I remember some people in my circle were
defending the spanking of children because well, you know, I
got spanked all the time, and I turned out fine.
The eye turned out fine. Defense is a terrible defense
for doing something. You know what. I rode in a
car without a seat belt next to glass that wasn't
a breakable glass, you know, remember the old car glass
that would they'd shard instead of shatter, So not only
would the impact kill you, but you would be stabbed
to death in the process if you were in a
car accident. Well, you know what, I lived through that era.
We rode in the back of a pickup truck, standing
up with a beer koozy in one hand, and we survived.
We were tougher back then, you know, just bad advice,
bad advice. Respect your elders. I understand on this surface
where that comes from. If you have a subordinate a
young child, that child is not yet equipped to live
in this world safely, to provide for its own needs
to a degree it needs to. If respect is not
the word, it needs to align with the guidelines that
are put in place. Right, if you just need to
clean your room, you need to go to bed, but
at this time you need to do your homework, finish
your chores and whatever. You will respect the authority that
I have over you. On the surface, it sounds really good,
but now we have an entire culture who are there like, well,
they're your elders. They're your mother, your father, your grandfather,
your pastor, your president. Respect your elders. Wait a minute,
so you're telling me that because someone is an elder
meaning older, especially if they're on the family tree, that
they automatically get respect by default. I thought respect was
to be earned. There's a shit ton of people in
my life who are older, but they're not wiser, they're
not necessarily good people. So if you walk into a room,
do I respect you simply because you are elder? Do
you earn respect? Have you deserved respect? I don't know.
There's a whole litany of them. Tell me what yours
are in the comments section, because I might grab a
few of those and incorporate them if I give the
speech later on this year or maybe in twenty twenty seven.
I'm always thinking ahead. These are the things that have
been bouncing around in my brain, and we would just
say this is stuff that we think about and do
all the time without even really thinking why we do it.
This is not exactly related, but I thought about it
two days ago. I'm over at the self checkout lane.
I've just accepted that I am now going to check
myself out at the grocery store, and I will pay
the same amount or more for what I am buying.
I'm being served less. I am actually I am now
the employee of the store, and I'm paying the same price.
No discount for me, no employee discount. I've accepted that.
I've accepted that, even though I have insurance in this country,
that a single major medical event might financially devastate me
and I could lose everything. How in the world did
I get to a point where I've accepted that, even
if I'm insured, I could be home and ruined forever.
Someone else says, well, are you in this planned are
you on that network? We choose your doctor. If you
don't use our doctor, you have to pay all of
it or most of it. And if you go over here,
you're still paying twenty percent of an eighty percent thing
after the deductible and the thing and the cope and
what you and the cost of the insurance is how
much while the CEOs of the insurance companies are making
tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars. And
I've just sighed and shrugged and said, ah shit, this
sucks and accepted it. I've come to the point where
I don't own the things that I own, and I accepted.
I rented a movie, actually, I bought a movie online,
one of those things where would you like to rent
this film to stream for two ninety nine or would
you like to buy it for four ninety nine because
it was an older movie? And I said, well, oh shit,
I'll buy it extra two bucks. Click, and I realized
I don't own the movie. I don't have a disc version,
I don't have it on drive. It's not on my
hard drive, it's not on a flash drive. It's not
in any physical form in my life. That streaming company
can just decide that, oh it's not yours and it disappears.
It's gone forever. I own it, but I don't own it.
And I have come to the point where I say, Okay,
now it is what it is. It is what it is,
Daylight Savings Time. I just accept it. What a stupid idea.
It may have had its uses a long time ago.
I just roll with it. Ah, I guess it's time
to spring forward or fall back. What a pain in
the ass Daylight Savings Time is. I've signed up to
how many do not call lists for my cell phone
because I'm sick and tired of getting spam. You know
what I get more of than ever spam? Not just
phone calls, but texts. I get texts and I can't
block them because they come from these weird one two
three plus US DASH eight eight seven whatever numbers I'm
sure from overseas that are untraceable. And even if you
do block it, there were five squillion other numbers that
they can use every day. How many do you get
a day? I'm thinking I get three, probably get one
or two calls, and two to three texts that are
just spammed, and no matter how many I block, I
still get them. And I've just accepted it. I've just
accepted it. Eh, it is what it is. I've just
accepted that I will buy a house and pay for
it three times. I will pay for it three times.
What's the going interest rate here in the United States
right now? I think it's like six or six and
a half percent. And people are like, yay, six percent,
So they go and oh, I've got great credit. Wonderful,
you still get six and a half percent. So you
sit down and you pay thousands of dollars in closing costs,
which I think is a scam, shit ton of paperwork. Okay, fine,
and I'm going to sign here and to sign here,
and I go through three or four weeks, five weeks
of submitting proof that I actually deserve to have a home,
and then once I sign, I'm on the hook for
I mean, most notes are thirty years. If I start
working at sixteen, Let's say I retire at sixty five,
and that ain't going to happen. Well, let's just look
at I mean, you were spending almost all of your
working life paying for a house, and you're paying for
it three times over. You got some principle, but look
at the interest, look at the insurance, look at the
property taxes, look at all the fees and incidentals. So
if you buy a two hundred thousand dollars house, you
are paying over six hundred grand for it, and we
just accept it. Social media companies own us, the streaming
companies own us, the robocollars own us, the insurance companies
own us, the banks own us, the government owns us,
and we've just come to accept it. You and I
sit back and think the United States is dropping tomahawks
on schools and killing upwards of almost two hundred school
girls in a single attack. I sort of missed the
times that we had a congress in a Supreme court.
Don't you We feel helpless. This is the hand that
we are dealt, this is what we're stuck with. I'm
going to be at the no Kings protest on the
twenty eighth. I'm calling my elected officials, not that they
give a shit, but fine, but I'm like I am
now being hand at a world that someone else designed
my life. They're rules and I become resentful about it,
But then I participate in that world. How do you
bust out of the cycle. It sounds good on the
surface to say I'm just not going to play. That's ridiculous.
We saw that with non vote in twenty twenty four,
and Jesus Christ, look where we are now, thank you
very much. How do you maneuver within the system? Can
you bend the system? Can you convert? Subvert the system?
Every day you and I participate in systems which make
very little sense for us, but make a whole lot
of sense for someone else. These are the things that
occupy my mind. What occupies your mind? I am insanely curious.
Short break your calls next. I just added Nashville with
Nanocon to the events calendar on the website. A lot
of stuff in Canada going on this year. But if
you are interested in one of the things happening this year,
I see Calgary, Nashville, Ottawa, Ontario, Sarnia, Milwaukee, Huntsville, Alabama,
and and I think more maybe coming. Go to the
Thinkingatheist dot com slash events. There are links to the
conference pages right there the Thinkingatheist dot com slash events.
Let's go to seven five seven and talk to Sarah. Hello, Hei,
Welcome to the show, Sarah, But what's on your mind?
What you want to talk about.
Speaker 3: I've got this mom Swellen very dearly, and we're both
on the same side of politics, thankfully. But every time
I go into a FaceTime with her, all she wants
to do is bitch, bitch, bitch about Trump. And it's
like and she's talking about like the end of the
world kind of stuff and how bad it is. And
I've actually done it where I've sat a twenty minute
time of accurt and it's been very successful.
Speaker 2: Actually, she's mad about Trump.
Speaker 3: She's anti Trump, but she's taking every piece of news
like it's like, oh my god, things are she she
bluestems well out of proportion as she's following some of
the super biased stuff that means a little too far
towards like off the left side of the cliff.
Speaker 2: Basically, well, if you've set a limit and she is
abiding by the limit, it sounds like she's played by
your rules. If it's too much, then you can lower
the limit. You know what, Let's do ten minutes, let's
do five minutes, and then let's talk about other things.
You think she would abide that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I actually have to physically set a live
timer and when it beeps, I say, hey, let's talk
about the green kids. Let's talk about something else.
Speaker 4: It sounds like.
Speaker 2: You solve your own problem. You know, she's abiding with
those rules, and I think, understanding why you've set the boundary. Mom,
This isn't healthy. We're not wired to handle the avalanche
of bad news that's being thrown at us every day.
They want to overwhelm us. Don't forget to live your
life because I want to live my life life as well.
Let's find some balance. I think if she understands why,
and you've got the stop Watch, that's a win, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And one other point too is you know, in
terms of physical media, I have completely switched back to
physical DVDs. Now I'm going on eBay and just buy
up old dbs.
Speaker 2: The director Guiermo del Toro has been speaking about how
the death of physical media actually cheats those who love
film and has He's encouraged people, you know, get the
Blu ray, get a hard copy so that it is
in your possession, which does a couple of things. First
of all, there are a lot more features on the
disc versions that you purchase, but then it's you know,
not something where a third party can arbitrarily pull the
plug and it vanishes from your life. Ownership means ownership,
and I think he believes in order to really preserve film,
we have to preserve it on a personal level. And
I think I agree and appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Piracy is back in full sway, and I kind of
support that because I can't afford all the streaming services.
I simply cannot. I have to pick one maybe, but
if I want to check out one show or something
or see if I even like the thing, I'm not
going to pay a monthly subscription for that anymore. I
can't do it.
Speaker 2: I'll let the comment section argue about copyright and all
of that. I'm not gonna I can't endorse piracy.
Speaker 3: Really liking something, then I will go out and.
Speaker 2: Buy it, all right, Sarah, Well, I appreciate you calling
the show very much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you much.
Speaker 2: See you later. Steve is dialing in from area code
eight three zero. Steve, thanks for waiting. Are you there?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm here. Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you very much. Let's talk. What's on your mind?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 5: I was just thinking about I live in Texas and
I live in a pretty red part of Texas, and
I was really excited about the success of James tell Rico,
and it looks like we're going to have a pretty
competitive set for John Cornyn's Senate spot. But I've been
a little turned off because kind of going through Facebook,
I see tall Rico's Facebook page and a lot of
his posts are like talking about how Christian he is
and how Christ is wonderful and I love God and
look at me, I'm a huge Christian. Shouldn't you vote
for me? And I have kind of conflicting thoughts about that.
I Mean, on one hand, I get it, you know,
you have to do what you have to do to
get elected.
Speaker 4: But on the other.
Speaker 5: Hand, I'm a little frustrated that we kind of live
in a society where like even the Democrats have to
proclaim how Christian and how much they love God and
how much they love Jesus in order to get elected.
I'm sure that in Oklahoma you probably see that too.
Speaker 2: Republican Christianity is really the Oklahoma brand, which you would
expect Tennis State, which is ranked fiftieth in education. James Tallerico,
I am of two minds on I think for the
same reason that you and many others are Steve, I
appreciate his values. I don't think we're going to win
the war against Christian nationalism without inter faith efforts. We're
going to have to ally with people who have a
God belief, and there are a lot of people who
do who don't think Jesus needs a state church, and
they're on our side for secular government. James tallerco qualifies
one of the frustrating things is Tallarico and others are
sort of sanewashing the fact that Christianity is at its
core a dominionist faith. So this happy clappy notion, well,
Jesus would have never judged gay people, and Jesus would
have never wanted to regulate the womb, and Jesus loved
everybody unconditionally. Well that's a noble sentiment, but it's not biblical.
And we've seen cherry picking in every culture, in every religion.
But these progressive Christians are selling a Christianity that is
actually a custom fitted faith to their value system. But
it's not the biblical thing. Anybody who says that Jesus,
who is God, was pro gay people did not read
the Old or New Testament. And so when I see
these people who were out there talking about, well, this
is not true Christianity. Christian nationalism is not true Christianity.
I'm like, the whole freaking Bible is a dominionist book.
The first thing that God did when he created Adam
was to give Adam dominion over the earth. The entire
Old Testament is nothing but tribal wars for power and territory.
The chosen people, the idea of but chosen people is
a dominionist theology. Go ye into all the world and
preach the gospel right, make converts. That's dominionist theology. That
is Christianity. So I get frustrated as well. Know, I
appreciate his values, but I wish he wasn't flexing the
Christian angle as much as he was flexing his humanist angle.
And that's exactly what you're saying, right, is that your frustration, Steve.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. I mean I agree with all of that.
You know, I have some friends that are Christian and
very open about it and very liberal, very democrat there,
and they say the same thing and say, well, you know,
Jesus taught love love one another and Christianity is about
being accepting. And I'm thinking, like have you read your Bible.
First of all, Jesus doesn't even exist right now. Whether
he existed in the past, he doesn't exist now. And
his teachings are two thousand years old and could have
been manipulated in any which way. So I'm like, why
don't we set the Christian thing aside and just and
you know, be a little bit more humanist about it.
Speaker 2: I'll support tall Ico. I think he's a good man
with a good heart. I think he's good despite his faith,
not because of it.
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, yeah, me too. And I'd like, I would
love to see, you know, candidates be able to win
big elections without having to dig into the Christianity thing.
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting to see how future generations who have
seen the chest pounding Bible bangers and their support of
President Pedophile, you know, how they will respond to all
of this. I know religiosity is on the decline overall
in this country, and I think some of that might
be fueled by the distaste that the thirty and unders
are having watching the older generation line up and stick
their heads right up the ass of Donald Trump, and
they're like, holy shit, I don't want any part of that.
And they're distancing themselves more from fundamental faiths. I think,
you know, maga culture may play into a further rejection
of at least organized religion. Steeve, I appreciate your call
and your inputs so much. Thanks for being a part
of the show.
Speaker 5: May I add one more thing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, quickly, I just.
Speaker 5: Want to let you know, me and my son we'd
love to listen to the short Stories podcast as I'm
driving him to school, so I'm really hoping that there's
more of those.
Speaker 4: On the way.
Speaker 2: You're very kind. Thank you for that, Steve. Be safe
out there, all right.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: He is referencing my second podcast, True Stories with Andrews,
which is formatted kind of formatted after the old Paul
Harvey rest of the story. They are about four or
five six minutes long. I haven't done very many recently
because quite frankly, I simply have not had the time.
I don't have a staff, I don't have a crew.
I think I'm up to four hundred and fifty True
Stories episodes which I have to go out and discover
and verify and then research and write and record and
upload and do the thumbnails and schedule and do all
of that at times. What three a week, and I
think it's been on for almost three years. But it's
just so hard to keep up with because I've got
this broadcast which I'm prepping everything for, and then i
just finished the big event with Forrest and Erica, which
I formatted and I produced. I'm getting ready to travel
to Calgary for Weekend reason writing the speech for that.
I'm actually working on another book idea. Oh blah blah.
So I'm overwhelmed. And you know, those shows will continue
to release, probably not as often. I don't think I
can get you three a week. I'm actually probably going
to have to take a few months off. But there
are four hundred and fifty archived shows, and I'm really
proud of them. They're not polarizing, right, They're not about
politics and religion, and they're just stories. It can be
weird news or science based stuff, a discovery, some crazy
thing that happened weird news, idiot criminals who did something
stupid that got them arrested, you know, just fun stuff,
live stuff, but things that actually happened in our recent
and in our very distant history. True stories with Seth Andrews.
Look it up, subscribe and check out four hundred plus episodes,
and I'll try to populate that whenever I can, as
often as I can. But I'm just one man. I'm
just one man. Okay, I've got a four to two
five area code. I'm sorry, I don't see a name.
What's your name? What do I call you?
Speaker 6: They call me Augie. It's a nickname from the.
Speaker 2: Military, Augie. Let's talk what's on your mind today?
Speaker 6: Preposition one, God gave me type of negative blood. Preposition two.
I donate my blood, which equals works. Preposition three. I
have been labeled a fool. Conclusion I am God's working fool.
Speaker 2: I don't understand the propositions.
Speaker 6: Preposition not proposition preposition. I'm sorry, not make it any better.
Speaker 2: Help me understand your point.
Speaker 6: The blood type I have, anybody can take it, no
matter what your blood type is. You can take my
blood for life.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 6: Well that's okay. Then two. You know, then, of the
discussion between works and faith, is one required of both required? Well,
I've got the works, and it says I don't believe
I'm a fool, so I'm God's working fool.
Speaker 2: What does being a fool have to do with faith
and works?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: The Bible says faith but it works is dead. So
you are doing a good deed by providing life saving
blood that anyone can use. And what is being a
fool have to do with that?
Speaker 6: Well, because I don't believe in God. So but I'm
still doing God's work even I don't believe in them.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing good for goodness sake? What does that
have to do with the fool?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 6: Well, people condemn me for being an atheist. This is
what I'm getting out. I guess I'm trying to put
a positive spin on not believing.
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 6: I guess I got to work on that. Well.
Speaker 2: No, I think we're just trying to understand each other.
You know, we're using language for clarity. So you are
providing life saving blood. Other people say that you are
foolish for not believing in God, but you're actually doing
good works that the Bible commands just for its own sake?
Is that close?
Speaker 6: No, that's spot on, And I guess I could add
to that with my blood is blind. It doesn't care
where you're from or where your beliefs are. And so
isn't that kind of like loving always all the time?
I guess, like the Bible claims.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. So you know it's universal. It's a
universal gift.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. I appreciate it And just one
last thing I'll let you go is nine years ago
you were the first podcast I listened to as far
as the atheist subject goes, and since then listen to
you and all the others and committed the name. The
foundation I believe for non belis has really become solid.
It's setting more every day others than you guys. So
I want to say thank you for all that you've
done for me.
Speaker 2: You're very kind. I appreciate you. Augie, be safe, you too,
Bye bye. I see them. It's funny you've been doing
this long enough and you think, am I becoming the fossil?
Or will I be the elder Statesman? Well, I ate
and be that guy I listened to him when I
was a kid, way back in the day. Or will
it be Oh he's been around for twenty years, still
doing it, Still enjoy the show. I hope it's the latter,
But I do hear that I listened to you when
I was a kid, and I'm just like, oh, that's nice.
And I walk to the corner and start sobbing, Oh
my god, I'm a fossil, I'm ancient, I'm a dinosaur.
And then other people I'm like, well, you know what
a privilege to be able to have been around as
long as I've been around. And I saw these young
faces and I'm excited about it. All the fresh blood,
this new energy that we see daily into the movement,
whether it's in the online the YouTube space, the TikTok space,
the podcast space. And there's a lot of people podcasting.
I just saw the statistics four and a half million
podcasts registered on the planet. I think only about half
a million are considered active, meaning only about half a
million podcasts are publishing an episode or have in the
last sixty to ninety days. But still that's a ton
of content out there. So to continue to be doing
what I'm doing, to be a part of the conversation
after all of these years, it really is an honor.
You know, it sounds like I'm giving an award speech,
but it really is to be able to do what
you love and to I think we all want to
be relevant, we all want to try to matter. I'd
like to consider myself a storyteller that still has something
to contribute. And I've had the honor bringing in some
really good guests, really smart people, interesting people to have
interesting conversations. So if you're still with me after nine years, Augie,
I'm honored and I thank you so very much for that.
Adrian is dialing in on a web call. Thanks for
your patience. Adrian, Are you there.
Speaker 7: Hey, it's Adrian. I was thinking if you wanted to
talk about ownership.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on ownership?
Speaker 7: Do you think owning facts? It's something that you can
safely say.
Speaker 8: That you own that being, and we can only speak
I think both of us as dog owners.
Speaker 7: I own a dog as well, so you own Linus.
Speaker 8: I mean you're responsible for him. But what gives us
the entitlement to say that we owned them?
Speaker 7: Because they I think they are entities.
Speaker 9: Of their own.
Speaker 7: They didn't sign up to be our pets.
Speaker 8: They just ended up, by a circumstances to be part
of our lives.
Speaker 2: I think I use the word own only out of necessity.
Linus is my son. Linus is my son. He is
a member of my family, rescued from a hoarding situation
of great neglect and through the Humane Society. We found
him and we adopted him into our lives. So he's
really one of my kids. He does rely on me
for care. He relies on me to be fed and
to be kept safe and for love and all those things.
So own is it's an imperfect word. But because I
have stewardship over and because I am responsible for the
care of the animal by the letter of the law,
I am a dog owner. But I understand that the
language is clumsy. Does that make sense?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2: I think anybody with a pet in their life, even
the word pet for me falls short. I don't think
of Linus and think, oh, he's my pet. He's just Linus.
He's a member of the family, right, And I think
we're looking at the limitations of language. But sometimes you
have to use the word own in terms of guardianship
and responsibility. I own the responsibility for Linus and Gracie
and Cat, and so in that way, for lack of
a better word, own is the term that I have
to use.
Speaker 7: Okay, Yeah, I understood, Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the call. I got to move on, Okay, yeah, sure.
Sebastian dialing in from Toronto. What's up.
Speaker 10: Fortunately, I have a younger sibling that is seemingly going
down the Jewish conspiracy theory where the Jews are controlling
the world, they control all aspects of our lives, the banks,
all this nonsense. And I don't know how to tackle
this kind of bullshit.
Speaker 2: In what circles is this information coming from. Have they
gone down some sort of online alt right rabbit hole
or deep state QAnon rabbit hole or right wing radio
rabbit hole or I mean.
Speaker 10: I'm not exactly sure. So first there was brown people, right,
she blamed brown people for all of her problems. And
now since we're in Canada and then and immigration has
been lowered, there have been less brown people for her
to blame because there are less of them coming into
the country. So now instead of brown people, it's Jewish people.
And I'm not sure where she gets this information. I
was feeling it from her boyfriend because he seems to
share lot of these bigoted views. But I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to how do I get
someone who is racist and xenophomic and bigoted to not
be racist and xenophobic and bigoted. You know, I don't
think you can control that. I think if you engage
in conversations, I think those begin with questions, well where
did you get your information?
Speaker 10: My biggest issue is it seems like not the I'm
going to kind of steal man the argument. But I
have a feeling she would just say she knows it's
a conspiracy, but she just believes that the Jews control
the world. She believes it regardless of any information that
may or may not exist. I feel like that'll be
my issue. How do I tackle just a belief?
Speaker 2: This is the challenge we have when dealing with fundy
religions and other, you know, political issues that are not
rooted in reality. How do you get somebody who is
not based in reason to see reason right? Who was
it who said that trying to reason with the and
reasonable is like administering medicine to the dead, And I
understand that frustration. I'm paraphrasing who said that. Anyway, I
don't know that the burden is on you to make
her not racist. It sounds to me like she's kind
of eager.
Speaker 10: But I just can't let my younger sister go down
this rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: It's just I think she definitely needs to know that
you think it is wrong. I think she needs to
be challenged in a very direct way. But I wouldn't
challenge her with an expectation that she's going to have
an epiphany and throw off her bigoted attitudes and follow
you off into egalitarian vill It usually doesn't happen that way,
but it is important that she be challenged and know
that you find it offensive.
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I'd like to be able to walk in and say,
how can you think this? This makes no sense, it's
not rooted in reason. Here's the evidence, and someone would
immediately say you're right. But it almost never happens that way.
You can plant seeds, but I think in this measure,
it's probably more about you establishing that you feel it's
wrong on moral grounds, and if she can't substantiate it,
that makes the problem even worse.
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks three time.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, Sebastian hanging there. It was Thomas Paine
who wrote in the American Crisis, to argue with a
man who has renounced the use and authority of reason,
and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity and contempt is
like administering medicine to the dead. That was going to
drive me crazy. Thomas Pain short break, more calls next.
I've had about your people, send me suggestions for guests
on the show. I've had so many wonderful guests on
this broadcast, and I'm always on the hunt for more.
I've obviously got my selection lined up for twenty twenty six,
but if there's somebody that you would like to hear
on the show. Realistically, I'm a small fish. There's a
podcast everywhere and these big name A listeners are going
to get a thousand request a week. But I mean,
if there's somebody that you would like to see me
have a conversation with, let me know. You can leave
that in the commons section. I would be insanely curious.
Let's talk to Steve, dialing in from nine to seven zero. Steve,
thanks for your patience. Are you there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, nice to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Seth, Yeah you too. What's up?
Speaker 4: I think a lot of this has been covered already,
but you had a broadcast the other day about why
mega people cannot be converted or why they still believe
the things they do when they're presented with obvious facts
that trump is doing what he's doing. And when I
started to really get frustrated about it and know people
that are still in this mega sphere of thinking, I
finally just came to the conclusion that it's a tribal thing.
It's a peer pressure thing. That people are more afraid
of being thrown out of their group losing their friends
than they are about facing reality. So they're they will
continue to support this insanity even though they know it's wrong,
but they don't care because everybody else in their group,
and everybody else is going along with it. It's like,
you know, ancient tribe of people having to sacrifice the
version to the volcano God. You know they're going to
go along with it, even though they know it's crazy,
but they got to do it because everybody else in
their group is doing it, and that's what we're stuck with.
So there's no point in trying to even talk to
these people, I think anymore. I think it's a lost cause,
So fuck them.
Speaker 2: A lot of people have probably felt that in their heart.
I'm going to continue to have some conversations like the
one I had yesterday with a Trump voter, a very
direct conversation I didn't expect to really make a dent.
I think mostly for me these days, I just want
them to see pushback. I want them to know that no,
I think this is wrong. It is wrong on every level.
I stand against it. You need to know about it,
and I want you to know why. And for me,
you know that's had to be enough.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just think it's kind of pointless anymore to have
even to do what you're doing, because these people are
I think they're just basically afraid that if they don't
go along with what they think the authority. It's the
same reason people are stuck in their religious beliefs, because
they're afraid not to believe it in religion, they think
they're going to go to hell. I don't know what
the point is in trying to even communicate with these
people anymore. They make me very angry, and I'm afraid
I'm going to blow my top and punch them in
the face.
Speaker 2: Well, let's not do that. Look, I'm a guy who
was reasoned out of his faith. Now, granted, I had
to really take the reins in my own mind and heart,
but it was when I was presented with reason that
I began to explore whether or not what I was
believing made sense, and I still think those conversations need
to be had. If I can be rescued, other people
might be able to be rescued as well. But there
are some in my life that I have seen who
are such closed systems and maybe just awful people that
I don't give them time, energy, oxygen other than to
say I disagree. I think this is morally wrong. I
want you to know why I think it's morally wrong.
But I don't waste any of my time, energy or
oxygen trying to convince them, because life is short and
I think my energy is used better elsewhere. Steve, I
appreciate your call very much. Thanks for being a part
of the show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, sir, all right, get you later.
Speaker 2: What was the show we did last time? If we
can't convince them, should we shame them? I still don't
know the answer to that question either. I've got two three?
One is it Jam?
Speaker 9: Yes, that's Jam. Can you hear me?
Speaker 2: I can? What's on your mind?
Speaker 9: Well?
Speaker 4: The two things?
Speaker 9: One is a follow up to the guy with his sister.
If he's still listening to it, really present a different
conspiracy is what I say to do because what we're
being done is what the reason for this is. Powerful
people are using our race, our ethnic groups, our tribes,
our gender to divide us from each other to gain
power over us. That's a real conspiracy. They're really actually
people doing that, working on that to make that happen.
We see that in plain sight and presented to these girls.
Let her know, Look, you're being used. If you're being
divided from other regular people, then you're the tool. You know.
You're not on the right side of it, You're being manipulated.
That's the one. The other thought that I had and
then I'll let you you know, talk about it offline,
was this end of Time's stuff going on being told
to soldiers in this Iran War battle. I used to
think that most of politicians and things like this really
knew better that they just knew the return of Jesus
and all that stuff was just stuff that appealed to
the people, but that they didn't really believe it. And
now I'm trying to think, what the heck, how crazy
do you have to be to think that you're going
to force God to send Jesus back by doing all
the things that you think are supposed to happen. It's
crazy anyway, that's all. Thanks for the show. I'll pull
if you I'll wait for seconds see if you have
any other comment questions.
Speaker 2: Let me chew on it for a second. Jan But
I appreciate you, you know, dropping that comment. It's something
to chew on. But thank you very much for being
a part of the show. No jam's already gone. I
think we should stop letting people who are cheering for
the end of the world. We should stop letting them
be in charge of global policy. Don't you think I
don't want someone who won it's the rapture to happen,
who wants the Book of Revelation to activate. I don't
want that person determining our relationship with Israel, with Mett
and Yahoo, I don't want to do I would rather
not have that. And the divide and conquer thing is
absolutely accurate. Was it who was the political cartoonists who
saw the king standing on the balcony and he says,
all we have to do is convince the pitchfork people
that the torch people want to take their pitchforks, and
then vice versa. Le let's convince the torch people that
the pitchfork people want to take their torches. In other words,
they want to come and take what you have. Let's
pit them against each other. Let's splinter and divide them,
and then we can do whatever the hell we want.
Divide and conquer. It is an effective strategy. Chris is
dialing in from four to seven eight. Chris, thanks for calling.
Speaker 4: What's up, hey, Sef.
Speaker 9: How's it going.
Speaker 2: I'm good. Let's talk what's on your mind?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 11: So I work for the government. I work for CE.
I don't want to say particularly where, but something happened
at work the other day. I live in Georgia and
it's you know, heavily Republican pretty much everyone I'm surrounded by,
and so that happened at work the other day just
had me aggravated. And just so, there's two guys in
my shops. They were kind of arguing about, you know,
some political stuff, and this guy said something about how
we are pretty much all immigrants here, kind of implying
that our ancestors are immigrant, and the other guy he
got so like irrationally upset about it, and he was like,
my dad's daddy was my dad his dad, and his
daddy was born here. I'm not no fucking immigrant, Like,
he was very upset about it, and all he said was,
we're all immigrants, and it just it just made me
think of something I heard George call and say when
I was young. He said something about how pride should
be reserved for your own actions or something along the
lines of that, and I was just curious on your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we are all immigrants. I love the
idea that people say that they were America born and
bred and somehow that makes them better, like an accident
of birth. Oh wonderful. Yeah, you have dount of your
mom's vagina at a specific geographical location, and therefore you
are now.
Speaker 11: I never found that it never seen right to me.
Where you know, where you were born, Why does that
give you right to the land. It seems more of
a morality thing to me, not where your parents had set.
Speaker 2: Loving your country I think can be wonderful. Like you know,
in some ways, I do love my country. I wanted
to see the best version of itself realized. I see
the potential, you know, I see that the American experiment,
flawed as it was, still has a lot of wonderful,
meritorious things about it. I think the potentials are there,
but this idea of national pride. National pride kind of
bugs me. That's why things like loyalty, oaths, a pledge
of allegiance, all of these sort of chest pounding anthems
that celebrate America really leave a bad taste in my mouth.
We're a citizen of this country, but I find myself
equal wanting to be a citizen of the world. And
I don't think that's unhealthy at all. In fact, I
think that's a better model. Chris.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it to be reserved for something you did yourself,
you know, not not in the place you were born,
or even a heritage thing like where your family was from.
You know, I just never understood that. I grew up
my dad was military, so I grew up all over
the place and all the places I lived. You know,
I met a lot of immigrants and immigrant families, and
they always seem to be good people to me. Like
they would move here and they would have these small
communities in different places, and people would treat them kind
of badly.
Speaker 2: You know, who was it who said one of the
greatest cures for bigotry is travel, To travel to the
places that you had never been and meet people you
had never previously met and be introduced to the rest
of the world.
Speaker 11: And just in my own life, of the immigrants I've met,
they're good people. It seems like.
Speaker 2: There's another line. I would rather lend a helping hand
to an immigrant who crossed a river to be safe
and free than I would for a bigot who lived
across the street who wouldn't help an immigrant. It's all
about our humanity. Yeah, Chris, So that's good stuff. I
think pride has to be merit based. If I'm proud
of you, I'm proud of an accomplishment of my own
that's one thing, But proud to be born here, proud
to be white, proud to be Christian. To me, I
don't buy that. I think it's unhealthy. Yes, all right, Chris,
thank you for calling the show today. Yep, we'll see
you later. Ray is dialing in from three zero one. Hi, Ray,
thanks for waiting. What's up, Hi, Seth.
Speaker 12: I was watching the news earlier in the week or
last week, and Fox News showed a video from like
twenty sixteen, but the audience would assume it was from
this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me set that up, Ray real fast. There
was a video of the dignified transfer of dead American soldiers,
you know, those who were killed after we had started
a war with Iran. And at the dignified transfer, as
the flag covered caskets were brought off of the aircraft,
Donald Trump stood there in the procession with the freaking
white ball cap on ball cap that he sells on
his store that he is using to pitch him his brand.
He's sitting there wearing a freaking white ball cap and
people are like, you got to be shitting me, unbelievable
amounts of disrespect. Fox News covers the story of the
Dignified Transfer, but they did not show the actual video
from this recent event. They showed an archived video from
a different dignified transfer where Trump did not have the
hat on. They lied outright to their audience and only
apologized when they got busted, and even then did not
show the correct video with the ball cap. I had
to give that backstory. Ray, go ahead, continue your story.
Speaker 12: So my thinking is not a lot we can do
about this, but maybe there's a little bit we could have.
And I don't think we have an agency that covers
both broadcasts and cable, but we could have an agency
that covers news. I'd say mainstream news in this case,
and required truth and labeling. So if a news show,
TV news show shows a video, it has to label
it fine, date, place, and if they don't or if
they mislabel it, they'll have to show the right version.
They can't just say oh, my mistake and not show
at the same time next news broadcast. They have to
show the right video with the right label and say
this is what we're supposed to show you. Now. The
monetary fees is enough to motivate a good enough finality
so they don't mess around. But I thought that this
would be a right step in the right direction. Require
truths in labeling, no matter whether the news is on
cable or internet or TV.
Speaker 2: Might be a piece of the puzzle, it doesn't stop
them from removing the context if they show up, like
there was a comment that was posted I'm trying to
remember what it was from James tallerico politician down in Texas,
and only the first part of the sentence was broadcast
and it gave a completely different context because he had
then come back and he'd finished the thought, making it
mean something totally different. So they can get the time
and the date stamp correct, but they still can be dishonest.
But you know, an accurate stamp of the who, what, where,
and when might be a piece of the larger puzzle.
Speaker 12: That's a good point in context. Would be another way
they use this misuse this.
Speaker 2: Perhaps if now that we have linkable stuff on our news,
you know, people can click and go deeper, maybe there
should be a requirement to be able to pull up
the higher event, the entire speech, the entire presentation, whatever
it is, and say for the whole thing, uninterrupted, uncut
in its entirety. You can click here for reference. That
might be another piece of the puzzle that gives context.
Do I have a lot of faith people would actually
do that. I don't know. We were not a very
patient culture. We want it fast, we want it on TikTok,
we want it in twelve seconds, and we want to
be validated by it.
Speaker 12: Right, Yes, and I like that. I also would require
that the link take you to that spot in the
full video, so you can go a little back and
a little forward, but it starts at the right place.
You don't have to search.
Speaker 2: That's smart. See if they would just put you in
charge of things, right, you know, the world would be fixed.
You and me.
Speaker 12: I'm not a good manager.
Speaker 2: So all of this audience, okay, they would put all
of this community in charge of the world. It's fixed tomorrow.
I'm just saying, they just call me, everybody call us,
let us take the wheel. Can at least do better
than what's being done. But that's interesting. I wish you know,
integrity and media was the thing right now, it's just
the oligarchs who were funneling algorithms and propaganda and essentially
spoon feeding a culture that's way too eager to lap
it up. There are just a few few people out
there I think resisting. There needs to be more. But
those are those are smart ideas, Ray, and I appreciate
you offering those on the show.
Speaker 12: Makes sense.
Speaker 2: All right, be good, see you later. How would you
fix the news? Most of news today is just punditry,
it's opinion. You get a twenty four hour news cycle
and they're filling the cycle and they know what sells,
and outrage is usually what sells. If it bleeds, it
leads rage. People love rage, click bait, rage bait. How
do you fix that? Would people even respond to a
channel that was just this happened at this time, and
here are the facts surrounding it. The missile fell here,
it appears to have originated here. The casualty numbers are this,
The results are that is one, two, three, four, five.
People even watch that, probably not, They're going to want
somebody who is pounding the table and sounding off about
how they feel about it. So our news really isn't news,
is it? And if it was, it would be totally
drowned out and ultimately canceled because people who have been
weaned in an entertainment culture would rather have entertainment than news.
That's my two cents. I got a run. I so
appreciate you being a part of the broadcast, and I
will catch you back here very very soon.
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