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Welcome 42 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:06.159 to the family vdW group. 43 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:07.959 NOPERD is necessary if we were premitted by loss he 44 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:09.759 terms and conditions eighteen plus raby one. 45 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.280 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 46 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:25.400 Killers in true crime history and the authors that have 47 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:33.039 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week, 48 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:37.039 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 49 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:41.039 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 50 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:54.240 journalist and author Dan Zupansky, Good Evening. 51 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:59.520 This episode of True Murder is brought to you by Audible, 52 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.919 the world's leading name in digital audiobooks, with over one 53 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:08.199 hundred and eighty thousand best selling books featuring the world's 54 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:12.400 very best narrators. Right now, you can get a free 55 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:14.919 audiobook of your choice when you sign up for a 56 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:21.759 thirty day free trout Go too Audible podcast dot com, 57 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:26.960 slash True Murder, That's Audible podcast, One word dot com 58 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:35.479 slash True Murder Today and experience Audible audiobooks. Hitchhiking from Eugene, Oregon, 59 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:41.120 through northern California nineteen seventy seven, twenty year old Colleen 60 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:46.280 stan thumbed to ride into Hell. Her kidnappers, a sadistic 61 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.719 lumber mill worker Cameron Hooker and his battered wife Janice, 62 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.840 subjected her to seven years of torture and sensory deprivation. 63 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.080 She was made a sex slave, kept locked in a 64 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.879 wooden box and brain washed into believing that an underground 65 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.199 network of sadists would recapture her if she attempted to escape. 66 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:11.280 Did Colleen fall in love with Cameron and make herself 67 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:14.000 a willing partner in a love triangle? As the hooker's 68 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:18.360 defense lawyer asserted, The jury found otherwise convinced by the 69 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:23.639 evidence marshaled by co author Maguire, state prosecutor in the case, 70 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:28.160 a trial that journalist Carlin Norton attended in nineteen eighty four. 71 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.879 The book not for the squeamish. This harrowing tale shuttles 72 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.480 between the courtroom and the grizzly doings in the hooker's basement. 73 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:41.600 The book that we're featuring this evening is Perfect Victim, 74 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:44.560 the true story of the Girl in the Box by 75 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.639 the district attorney who prosecuted her captor. With my special guest, 76 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.240 journalist and author Carlin Norton. Welcome back to the program 77 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:57.199 and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Carla Norton, Thank. 78 00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:58.480 You Dan for having me. It's a pleasure. 79 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:04.439 All is a pleasure. This is I've mentioned before, this 80 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.399 is a true crime classic and it's going to be 81 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:10.560 a treat for everyone, especially me. I've loved this book 82 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:14.399 for years, and we finally get to get you to 83 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:20.319 talk about this incredible, incredible story. So let's start off with. 84 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.040 This book was put on the reading list for the 85 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:27.199 FBI's Behavioral Science Unit, and it was a number one 86 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:32.480 best selling New York Times bestseller. Tell us a little 87 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.360 bit about your background. Pardon me, sorry, I said that. 88 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:37.160 Surprised me. 89 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:42.319 Absolutely. Now tell us a little bit about your background, Carla, 90 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:44.920 and tell us how you came to be the author 91 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:46.120 of Perfect Victim. 92 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:52.920 Well, that is an unusual story. I actually was living 93 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:57.720 in Tokyo, Japan when this case broke, and I was 94 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.879 working full time as an associate editor with the Japanese 95 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:05.879 edition of Readers Digest. I had just finished editing a 96 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:11.399 book when this story started hitting the newspaper headlines. And 97 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.399 what hit me immediately was that it was Red Bluff, California, 98 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:17.879 and I grew up in Reading, which is just thirty 99 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:21.439 miles north of there, so from the distance of Tokyo, 100 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.519 this is virtually my backyard. And when I first saw 101 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.399 the headlines that this woman claimed have been held captive 102 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:32.680 for seven years, I just didn't believe the story. I 103 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:36.519 thought that's ridiculous, that couldn't possibly happen in Red Bluff, 104 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:41.560 and the AP Wire Service kept running stories about it, 105 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:46.800 and I was fascinated. And it just happened that this 106 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.199 broke shortly before I was going on vacation back to 107 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:55.040 visit my family in California, and while I was there, 108 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.879 I learned more about the case, and it was just 109 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:01.920 one of those cases that I and stop asking questions 110 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:05.920 because of the mind control issues, the slavery contract, the 111 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:11.639 wife that was involved, the just the bizarreness of this 112 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:16.319 case was outside of anything I'd ever heard of. I'd 113 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:22.160 never heard of Stockholm syndrome, I didn't know about abusive 114 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:29.160 relationships to this extent, and I thought, this is just 115 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:34.759 an extraordinary case, and somebody's going to write about it. 116 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.680 And I had, just, like I say, just finished working 117 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:41.000 on a book as an editor of a book by 118 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.199 a KGB agent who spied in Japan and then defected 119 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:48.800 to the United States, and so I had never thought 120 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.879 that I would write true crime, but I just became 121 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:56.199 kind of fixated on this case. So I did what 122 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:58.600 you're not supposed to do. I could call an agent 123 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:02.360 in New York. I told him the story and he said, 124 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:06.560 you're living where in Tokyo. I see. And if he 125 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.079 had said, well, I'm sorry, but there's no way you 126 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.639 can write the story, I probably wouldn't have pursued it. 127 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:14.000 He said, well, quit your job with Reader's Digest, come 128 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:16.959 back to the States, cover the trial. This is what 129 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:18.680 you need to do. And he laid it out for me, 130 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:21.920 and so, not knowing what I was getting into at all, 131 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.439 that's what I did. I quit my job. They came 132 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.439 back to the States, and I attended the trial and 133 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.080 then ended up co authoring Perfect Victim with Christie MacGuire, 134 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.120 the prosecutor. 135 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:39.080 Okay, Carl, let's go back now. You mentioned that you, interestingly, 136 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.720 you grew up in Reading, which is the closest place. 137 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:44.399 But in proximity, it's about one hundred and thirty miles 138 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:48.639 from Sacramento. So tell us where Red Bluff, California is 139 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.159 in northern California and in relation to other places that 140 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:55.759 we might know more off not from California. 141 00:08:55.799 --> 00:09:01.440 Sure, it would be northeast of San Francisco. And if 142 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:04.919 you start in Sacramento, which is California's capital, and go 143 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:11.039 up the Sacramento Valley, you're actually following the Sacramento River. 144 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.360 The headwaters of the Sacramento are up there by Lake Shafta, 145 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:21.360 and the Sacramento runs right through Reading and Red Bluff 146 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:24.960 down to Sacramento and then out the Delta to the 147 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:30.120 to the Bay area. So it's it's at the end 148 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:32.480 of a valley. It's kind of a rural. It's a 149 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:37.879 small town still, and it was smaller then, with a 150 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:42.679 lumber mill and cattle ranchers. You know, an annual rodeo, 151 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:51.799 one high school, and you know, a few older Victorian homes, 152 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:57.919 but nothing fancy. I mean, it wasn't a place where 153 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:03.639 there were a lot of tourists. Uh, you know, it's 154 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:08.679 more kind of the hunting fishing community that that sort 155 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:09.320 of mill. 156 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:14.840 You right now, tell us a little bit about Cameron Hooker. 157 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:20.960 His father's Harold and his mother is Lorena Hooker. So 158 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:24.440 tell us a little bit about his background, his early life, 159 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.279 and where he's originally from and where they're from. 160 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:32.200 You know what I'm going to I'm going to forget exactly. 161 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.559 I remember he has a younger brother whose name is Dexter. 162 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:39.080 But the thing that came up about you, you would 163 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.559 think that someone who became the sort of criminal would 164 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:48.080 have a you know, a background of abuse or you know, 165 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:53.120 acting out, But there really wasn't anything that came to 166 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.440 the fore. Now granted, his family isn't going to come 167 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.600 up and say, oh, yes he was, we abused him 168 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.240 as a child, but they said he was no trouble. 169 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:03.799 That it was. And everybody said, if you you know, 170 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.960 if you lined up ten guys, Cameron would be the 171 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:08.759 last one you would pick for this kind of thing 172 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.320 because he was very quiet and kept to himself. And 173 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.679 what came out in the trial is that he became 174 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:25.200 fixated as a teenager on this idea of kidnapping a 175 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.159 girl and holding her captive. That was his teenage fantasy. 176 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:36.399 And he collected pornography and that was like some boys 177 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:43.000 now might you know, get obsessed about computers or some sports. 178 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.799 That was his obsession, was this idea of holding someone captive, 179 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.360 and he dedicated a lot of his daydreaming life apparently 180 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:58.200 to that idea. Then he when he was a young man, 181 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.519 that's when he or he met Janice. I think he 182 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:07.240 was let's see, she was fifteen when she was introduced 183 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:15.200 to him, and I think he was then nineteen eighteen nineteen, yeah, okay, 184 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.960 And so Janice is the one who in all of 185 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:28.919 this is the is the most perplexing and and she's 186 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.559 the one who changes and actually finally set Coin free. 187 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.480 So when you think about her, she was fifteen when 188 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.000 she met him, and they dated for a year and 189 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.519 a half I think before they were married. So he 190 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.279 was her whole world. She went from being a child 191 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:52.759 to being his wife. And he introduced her to sex 192 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:58.559 as being strung up between the trees and the woods 193 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.159 and whipped. I mean he said that's what everybody did. 194 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:07.720 So that that was her education and her own indoctrination 195 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:09.600 into an abusive relationship. 196 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.919 Yes, you you outline right from Janice herself where she 197 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:19.679 didn't really think she was loved or had never heard 198 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:21.799 the expression that you know that she was loved. She 199 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:26.159 was raised mostly by her sister Lisa, and then interaction 200 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.159 with boys. She just wanted to be wanted, and so 201 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:31.879 part of the deal with Cameron was that he was 202 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.759 very very nice to her after he whipped her and 203 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.600 hung her. She found it these things peculiar, but she 204 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:42.320 had no sexual experience, but he was so affectionate, so nice, 205 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:44.960 and she really hadn't received any attention, and when she 206 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.720 went to her parents for permission to get married, and 207 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:52.279 there was a threat that she wanted to keep them 208 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:54.480 so badly that she said that she was pregnant and 209 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.080 then promised him to marry. So you could see, from 210 00:13:57.399 --> 00:14:00.399 as you outlined in the book, a very pathetic, very 211 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:06.240 very needy character entering into partnership with Cameron Hooker wittingly 212 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:08.000 and unwittingly to a certain degree. 213 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.200 Yeah, so she you can see that she was a 214 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:16.320 victim in her own right, even though she became an 215 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.519 accomplice with Colleen. I mean, she started down this path 216 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.639 not knowing what love was. I mean, who really knows 217 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:27.919 that at fifteen, sixteen years old, and he's the first 218 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:32.120 boy who ever really paid much attention to her. She's 219 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:37.840 not a particularly attractive young woman, and she's rather soft spoken, 220 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:41.039 and he comes into her life. He's very tall, he's 221 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:47.039 six foot four, lanky, a reasonably good looking guy, and 222 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.120 everybody seemed to like him. You know, he was someone 223 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:58.559 that people got along with. He didn't cause a ruckus, 224 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:02.080 He wasn't someone who was outwardly violent. He wouldn't, you know, 225 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:06.240 get drunk and cause problems. And that was part of 226 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:08.320 the reason that it was so hard to believe this 227 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:12.080 had gone on for so many years because he did 228 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:17.080 not draw attention to himself. He was always busy, you know, 229 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:24.080 he worked in the lumber mill, and he had projects. 230 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.440 He would build fences and whatnot. So he seemed like 231 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:30.720 he was a fairly industrious young man. And the two 232 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:34.919 of them rented a place from an older couple who 233 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.200 lived next door, mister and missus Letty, who thought they 234 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:43.200 were just just, you know, a nice, young, wholesome couple. 235 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:55.480 Now you introduce early on in this Colleen Stan, her 236 00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:00.519 father's Jack Martin. She had been married early on herself 237 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:05.679 and in a failed marriage within about a year. And 238 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:07.639 you said she was living a little bit on the fringe. 239 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.279 So tell us a little bit more about Colleen Stan 240 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:15.279 at this time. And she is from Eugene, Oregon. And 241 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:16.919 tell us a little bit about Colleen Stan. 242 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.240 She was raised in southern California, in Riverside, California, but 243 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.480 she moved to Eugene with a couple of friends, so 244 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:31.080 she had roommates. And she'd had, you know, some trouble 245 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:34.960 in her life, you know, a broken family, a young 246 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:40.519 short divorce, marriage and divorce at a young age. And 247 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.679 she was living in Eugene, and you can imagine Eugene, 248 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:49.559 Oregon is a college town, and so this is nineteen 249 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:56.759 seventy seven, and you know a lot of free spirits 250 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.759 and Beatles music. 251 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:02.879 And so she. 252 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:09.440 Decided that she was going to naively hitchhike down Interstate 253 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.119 five from Oregon to visit a friend, to surprise a 254 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:18.519 friend in northern California on her birthday. And one of 255 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:20.920 the chilling things for me for this, when I think 256 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.039 about this, is that I also hitchhiked that same stretch 257 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:27.519 of freeway when I was about her age, foolishly. So 258 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.160 I actually keep a copy of Perfect Victim in the car, 259 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.599 and when I see girls hitchhiking, I offer them a 260 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:39.119 copy and insist they reached as the price for a ride, 261 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:43.640 and I lecture them that that'shuld hitchhike. So but Coleen 262 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:53.359 was not being, you know, completely ludicrous in her actions. 263 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.960 She turned down a ride with a bunch of guys. 264 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.640 She was careful about who she would accept a ride with. 265 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:04.279 And when she got down to Red Bluff here was 266 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.119 a man, his wife and their infant. And let me 267 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:13.519 backtrack a little bit. That Cameron had his abuse, his 268 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:20.240 sato masochistic experiments with his wife, Janice became more and 269 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:24.160 more extreme, and they were frightening to her, and so 270 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:28.599 finally they cut a deal, which is hard to fathom, 271 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.599 but if she could have a child, then he could 272 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:35.200 have a slave. Was the deal they cut. And so 273 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:40.920 she had a child, and he was looking and he 274 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.640 had his preparation ready, and there was Colleen, who accepted 275 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:49.599 a ride with them, which looked quite safe, and they 276 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.759 I think she was going to Westwood, and if I 277 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.039 recall correctly, it's about an hour an hour and a 278 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:58.960 half east of Red Bluff. So they headed off in 279 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:05.279 that direction. And then at one point, and I think 280 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:10.920 this is interesting, they stopped at a gas station and 281 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:15.240 she went and used the restroom, and Collen recalls that 282 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.880 she she had an intuition or heard a voice as 283 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.720 she put it, telling her to run away, that she 284 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.680 should jump out the window and run away, that there 285 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.559 was still time, and she thought, why am I thinking this? 286 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:33.319 This is you know, this is doesn't make sense, But 287 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.480 that was her instinct and you can see that her 288 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:39.640 She knew something was wrong with this couple. The way 289 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.279 he kept looking at her in the mirror. There was 290 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:46.720 just something off about them. But she talked herself out 291 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.640 of it and got back in the car. And when 292 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:54.359 she got back in the car, there was a box 293 00:19:54.400 --> 00:20:00.000 on the seat next to her, which she would learn 294 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:04.400 and later what that was. But in the meantime they said, well, 295 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.720 we want to go down this road and look at 296 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:09.839 some ice case we hear is there are some ice caves. 297 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:11.720 Do you mind? We're going to take a detour and 298 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.799 say They took her down a dirt road. Janice got 299 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:16.640 out of the car with the baby and walked down 300 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.240 to a stream and Cameron came around and put a 301 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:24.559 knife to her throat and told her she better do 302 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:27.240 what he told her to do, and he had everything ready. 303 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:29.359 He gagged her, he blindfolded her, and then he put 304 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.160 this headbox on. And I've tried on that headbox. I 305 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.680 have a photograph of it in the book. It was 306 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:42.160 introduced as evidence. It's a double walled, very heavy insulated 307 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:46.759 head box, which is it latches around your throat and 308 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:52.480 it sits on your head. I think it weighs about 309 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.559 twenty pounds. It's got heavy latches and it's a sensory 310 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:58.440 deprivation device. I mean basic for one thing. You can 311 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.240 scream on that and it would muffle your screams, but 312 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.160 it's also just a terrifying thing to have latched onto you. 313 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.000 Then he tied her up, he covered her with a blanket, 314 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.039 and he laid her down in the back of the 315 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:17.200 car and then signaled Janie back and they drove into 316 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.720 Red Bluff and smuggled her into the basement. And that 317 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:27.599 became a nightmare beyond. I mean, I can't even fathom 318 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:32.240 being locked in a closet for three days, and to 319 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:37.000 be locked in the kind of bizarre situation she was in. 320 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.039 Should I just keep talking? I feel like I'm going. 321 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.480 No, certainly, I don't want to break the well. 322 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:50.039 Just try to imagine that you are shut in, to 323 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:54.640 taken down into a cont small, concrete, cold basement and 324 00:21:54.680 --> 00:22:01.359 then placed inside essentially a cough you know. It was 325 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:05.200 a box that he had made that was about freezer 326 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:10.440 size from the outside and too small to her for 327 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.160 her even to sit up in. And that's where she 328 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:20.880 was kept for so long, I mean, for such a 329 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.720 long period of time. Try to imagine the first week 330 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:25.599 of the terror. You know, when am I going to 331 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.519 get out? What's wrong with these people? They would he 332 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:30.079 would let her out and whip her hang her by 333 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.960 the wrists and whipper abuse her in various ways and 334 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.599 then put her back in the box, and she didn't 335 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:38.200 know if she was going to be killed. Sometimes she'd 336 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.240 be let out to go to the bathroom or to 337 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.720 eat something, but he wouldn't answer questions. She lost track 338 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.759 of time. The days turned into weeks, turned into months. 339 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:57.839 She lost forty pounds, she stopped menstruating, I mean try to. 340 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:01.119 I mean just a simple thing of you know, daylight, 341 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:09.160 fresh air. That was all completely outside of her experience 342 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.359 for that period of time. She wasn't allowed to bathe, 343 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.720 you know, there was no personal grooming. He would bring down, 344 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:21.000 you know, basically a bucket for her to use for 345 00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:26.799 her waist. At one point they did take her upstairs blindfolded. 346 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.359 Always blindfolded. She didn't see his face. She was constantly blindfolded. 347 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:38.359 She was brought upstairs to bathe, and basically he experimented 348 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:39.960 with drowning her in the tub. 349 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.039 She was, hello, it is Ryan, and we could all 350 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.240 use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we 351 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.680 just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, 352 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.200 doing the dishes, counting her steps, you know, all the 353 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:54.880 mundane stuff that is why I'm such a big fan 354 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.200 of Chumba Casino. Chumpback Casino has all your favorite social 355 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.000 casino style games you can play for free anytime anywhere 356 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.359 with daily bonuses. That's your bright New day lope actually 357 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.599 a lot, so sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 358 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:10.359 That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. 359 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.920 Billberg necessary detail where every lost the terms and conditions 360 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.640 eating plus let's let's talk let's let's talk about that. 361 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.039 Let's I wanted to mention that because I think that's 362 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:21.279 one of the most dramatic things. When you say that 363 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:24.160 she was allowed to bathe. He tied her legs to 364 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:29.640 a broomstick, dunked her in the water again blind blindfolded, 365 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:34.519 and dunked her in the water. It's like a near drowning. 366 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:36.240 So it was. 367 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.200 And what's interesting is that he had done something similar 368 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.079 with Janis when they were dating. That he had taken 369 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:47.079 her to a stream and held her underwater. So again 370 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.680 he was acting out these sadistic fanity fantasies of his 371 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.200 that you know, Janie had endured this abuse and now 372 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:58.000 he had someone else that that was his entertainment. I mean, 373 00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:04.599 he u he electrocuted her she has scars from electrocution. 374 00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:08.240 I mean, basically, anything that he could think about he 375 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:12.279 would do. But that first for nine months, I want 376 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:15.200 to now say that these she was kidnapped in May 377 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:20.559 of nineteen seventy seven. So for the next nine months, 378 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.400 she whenever she was led out of the box, she 379 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:25.359 had to have her blindfold on. They did give her 380 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.359 some jobs to do. They would he built a workroom 381 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.920 under the stairs, and he would you take her into 382 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:35.799 this workroom, which I imagine was just a couple of steps, 383 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:39.799 It's a very small basement, and give her Macroma projects 384 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.519 to do. So she could take the blindfold off and 385 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.720 do these Macroma projects. And then she had to put 386 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.359 the blindfold back on when she was let out again, 387 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:50.640 so that she wasn't supposed to look at him, she 388 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.599 wasn't supposed to ask any questions. She didn't know his name. 389 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.400 And then finally one day he takes the blindfold off 390 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:01.599 and in front of her is a slavery contract which 391 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.240 he and Janice had created. He'd actually taken the wording 392 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:13.599 out of a hardcore pornography magazine apparently and recreated it, 393 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:18.720 and he gave her a slave name. He told her 394 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.720 that from now on, your name is Kay, and that 395 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:26.400 he belonged to a company of slave traders who were 396 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.319 watching the house and had members in the police and 397 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:34.039 some neighbors were involved in if she ever tried to escape, 398 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:37.960 that she anyone who tried to help her would be killed, 399 00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:44.119 and that she would be crucified and hung I think 400 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.160 for three days or something. I mean, just these horrible, 401 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.920