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Speaker 1: This week's episode of the trip Cast is sponsored by

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the Austin Board of Realtors, Unlock MLS, and the Texas

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Tribune Membership Program. Hello and welcome to the Texas Tribune

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trip Cast for May thirteenth, twenty twenty five. We are here.

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We are in the stretch run of the legislative session.

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I am joined as usual by co host Eleanor Klibanoff. Hello, Eleanor,

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Hey Matthew, how are you. I'm doing well. We had

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some fun on slack at eleven o'clock on Friday night

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as you were hanging out in the House chamber. How

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is your session going so far?

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Speaker 2: You know, I'll be honest, the last four days last

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from Friday on have been a little rough. I cover

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as we've discussed women's health. I also cover you know,

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LGBT issues, and there has been.

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Speaker 1: A couple of bills.

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Speaker 2: I was following that we're supposed to come up Friday night,

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so I stayed till midnight waiting for them to come up.

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They did not come up, which meant that not only

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was my Friday night somewhat ruined, but then my Saturday

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was also ruined because that's when they came up. So

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you know, got to watch Friday night, got to watch Saturday.

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Then they came up for third reading yesterday, so what

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a what a fun stretch.

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Speaker 1: Eleanor was really enjoying my running commentary on random bills

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that I found interesting at eleven o'clock Friday. Human composting Bill,

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look it up HB twenty two hundred.

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Speaker 2: Matthew is like just walking around the office, walking into

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people's offices, being like human composting Bill.

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Speaker 3: Let's discuss he's.

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Speaker 2: Really desperately fighting the urge to assign someone a story

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on the human composting bill.

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Speaker 1: For those wondering at home, as I'm sure many are,

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human composting is the idea of when you die, being

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allowed to just like throw your body into the woods

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so you can sort of return to the earth. And yeah,

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they want to legalize it in the house, or at

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least someone does I care ever the author.

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Speaker 2: Is, which, as I said, I've just been doing that.

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Didn't realize that was a crime, you know, but now

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apparently it is. It has been illegal to just fling

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bodies into the woods.

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Speaker 1: The other fun thing about the legislative sub session right now,

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as we have reached the time where it is like

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truly painful to walk the two and a half blocks

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to the Capitol because it is now one hundred and

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five degrees outside.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and then also it is still arctic chill inside

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the chamber.

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Speaker 1: Somehow.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday on the House floor, Chairman Garan, Charlie Garran was

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handing out heated blankets too, because we're like all the members,

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particularly the women, have their space heaters going, and so

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he was handing out heated blankets to try to, you know,

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lift the pressure on the grid a little bit from

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the chamber itself.

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Speaker 1: So they weren't electric blankets or were they electric.

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Speaker 2: Blankets, They definitely were heated.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry I started to throw you this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm benest. I didn't look at that closely. He

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had like a whole cart.

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Speaker 2: He was like handing them out, especially to the women,

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which you know, as we know, buildings do tend to

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be sort of air conditioned to the level of men

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in full suits, and so the women tend to have

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their blankets and stuff. So now they've upgraded to some

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blankets that are heated somehow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, very good. Well we are not talking anymore.

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I don't think about human composting or blankets this session. Instead,

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this week's episode, we are talking about housing. When people

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talk about Texas's staggering growth in the past generation, they

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bring up, you know, low regulation, the job incentives and

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everything like that, but almost always the conversation turns quickly

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to housing and the affordable affordability of housing in Texas.

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I remember living in Dallas more than a decade ago.

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The person who I who's cubicle was next to me

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was British and she had like moved from this like

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tiny flat in London to this like four thousand square

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foot house in the suburbs of Dallas and was like,

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Texas is the most amazing place. Yeah, but these days

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maybe not as amazing at least from the affordability standpoint.

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Places like Austin you can just not no longer legitimately

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claim for them to be legit inexpensive anymore. Big cities

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and small towns have seen prices skyrocket. The medium sale

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median sales price for a home in Texas is three

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hundred and thirty nine thousand dollars, which you know, sounds

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somewhat affordable, but that's forty four percent higher than what

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it was in March of twenty nineteen, when it was

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two hundred and thirty five thousand dollars. This is an

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issue that's gotten the attention of state lawmakers. Dan Patrick,

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the Lieutenant Governor, Dustin Burrows, the House Speaker, have been

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listing housing prices as a priority this session. And so

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we're going to talk about this today, and we are

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joined by two experts on the topic. First off, Josh Fector,

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urban affairs reporter for the Texas Tribune. Hello, Josh, Hey, guys,

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thank you for being here, Thank you for sitting through

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all that random stuff going on here. And then we

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have Emily brisilera dove who's a policy advisor for the

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think tank Texas twenty thirty six.

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Speaker 3: Hello Emily, Hello, Thank y'all for having me.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Emily, I'm going to start with you, and

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it's going to be a very simple and also a

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very complicated question, which is how have we gotten here?

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What has caused Texas to become so much more significantly

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unaffordable in the last five years or so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the struggles that Texas is having with housing

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affordability are not unique to the state. You know, the

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pandemic caused some pretty crazy swings and prices that we

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saw all across the country. But you know, our affordability issue,

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it is, in some ways, it's a great problem to have.

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It's indicative that people are coming here that we are

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a very business friendly state. But what we need to

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do is ensure that families are as welcome here and

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as able to thrive as our businesses are. Josh has

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heard all of my one liners before, so some of

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this is going to be to us, I know. So

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he put, you know.

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Speaker 4: Feel afraid to recycle?

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Speaker 3: Okay, great, that's good to hear, you know, posting today,

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And I want to come back to that because I'm

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pretty sure I've been to one of those graveyards and

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now I want to know where the heck I was.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they were just throwing bodies into the woods.

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Speaker 3: It was my yes, and like they put a tree

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on top of you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're changing the subject of this, Like did you

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go for a funeral?

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Speaker 3: It was like and to be clear, we didn't get

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out and walk around, but it was my best friend.

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She was like, hey, here is this innovative graveyard and

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it was out east and we just kind of drove

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by and and they just yeah, but now I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to look at the first story.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they're trying to fan it. I don't know anything

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about human composting. That's next week's episode. Tune in.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, for those of us that are still alive, Yes,

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we need houses. Housing. Housing affordability is fundamentally a supply

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of supply problem, you know. The Controller. The Controller last

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summer put out this great report about housing affordability, and

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there is just a really wonderful housing coalition that is

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united around kind of working on this issue. And the

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kind of stat that we like to use is Texas

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needs about three hundred, three hundred and six thousand homes

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to adequately house its population. That's a big barrier, but

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we are making strides towards accomplishing it.

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Speaker 1: Josh. What Emily is talking about here is is a

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supply issue. Right When a lot of people talk about

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the housing problems, not just in Texas as you described,

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it's it's sort of all over the place. What they're

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talking about is just there's not enough homes to meet

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the demand.

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Speaker 5: Right, right, So Texas it should be not builds a

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ton of housing. We build way more housing than a

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lot of our peers, we build more per capita. Our

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metro areas tend to build more. And that's really what,

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you know, a big source of like why we've been

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able to keep housing prices as low as they are,

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but they are, you know, we're just simply.

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Speaker 4: Not building enough to meet demand.

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Speaker 5: And there are a couple of reasons for that that

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we can get into that Texas lawmakers are trying to solve.

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But basically it just boils down to, you know, when

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people come here, you know, they're competing with folks who

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are already here for housing, right and so you know,

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if you don't have a place for that demand to go,

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you're going to see rice prices rise as rapidly as

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they did in say like Austin Round Rock, or as

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long as much as they have in DFW or Houston.

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Speaker 1: How much of this is a city problem, how much

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of this is an Austin problem, or how much your

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people feeling this in the other parts of the state.

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Speaker 5: So there are few places in Texas where you know,

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that have been untouched by the housing affordability crisis.

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Speaker 4: Prices have risen pretty much everywhere.

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Speaker 5: A lot of this can stem from what lawmakers have

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basically identified and what is kind of acting policy du

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jour the really sort of attract thing to housing policy

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advocates that sounds very dry and boring to everybody else,

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which is basically that there are local regulations that get

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in the way of building enough housing.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: There are regulations that say that single family homes have

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to go on a certain amount of land. Right, So

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that means that there's a bare minimum that you're going

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to have to shell out for land if you want

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to buy a home, right, and as prices grow, you

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it's tougher to afford, you know, a new home that's

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built on that. Right, So lawmakers are looking at ways

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to basically reduce how much land cities require to be

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built on. You know, how much land cities require single

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family homes to be built on, for example, Right, then

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there are bills that would make it easier to build

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accessory dwelling units, additional dwelling units in the backyards, or

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single family homes. These are you know, things that used

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to be sort of common in the early twentieth century

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but slowly got sort of phased out in cities. A

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lot of Texas cities technically do allow those kinds of

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homes to be built, but there are rules that sort

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of discouraged them from being built, or you know, processes

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that are difficult to navigate. Then there are bills that

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are basically, you know, trying to allow say like more

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mixed use development in places that don't already allow it.

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So think of you know, those mixed use developments you

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see on South Congress and First and where shops in

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the bottom, you know, apartments on top. And basically the

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name of the game here is like they're just trying

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to open the spigot, right, They're trying to make it

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easier to build homes and basically lessen the guardrails to

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or the hurdles to building homes. And I rattled off

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a couple but I'm trying not to monologue.

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Speaker 4: I swear.

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Speaker 1: Excellent. Okay. So I want to talk a little bit

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about just like the political moment we're in right now,

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because it's an interesting situation. Right. Housing seems to be

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one of those areas where it sort of crosses partisan

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lines in an interesting and unusual way. Right, we mentioned

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one of the bills that recently just passed, I believe

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SB twenty three or is it three, the the UH

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hold HB twenty four excuse me, that would allow, you know,

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take away some of the kind of make it easier

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to pass certain zoning changes and things like that. When

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that one bill came up, you know, it was made

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a priority by the House leadership. It it passed, I believe, Josh,

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your story said with majorities by with a majority of

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Republicans and Democrats. But you had, you know, John Bryant,

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a Democrat, speaking up against it. You had some Republicans

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speaking up against it too, And you know, this idea

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of sort of melding sort of free market capitalists with

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people you know who live in cities and are concerned

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about affordability that more frequently align with Democrats, sometimes going

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against you know, neighborhood groups that are you know, supported

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by Democrats or or environmentalist groups and things like that

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that are opposing it. I mean, can you just talk

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a little bit, Josh about kind of the interesting alliances

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that have popped up around this issue.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, everybody has reasons to like these bills, and everybody

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else that has reasons to hate them. Democrats, you know,

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have traditionally sort of been sort of like the Party

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of Local Control.

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Speaker 4: For example, there's.

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Speaker 1: Been a big.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you've been paying attention to the legislature

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for the past decade, Republicans have really tried to sort

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of like sap authority away from like the blue or

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urban areas, right, And you know, Democrats traditionally have been

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on the side of basically trying to play defense against

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any kinds of measures like that. And you know, on

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some of these land use bills, at least in the Senate,

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we haven't seen a lot of these bills go through

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the House yet. On some of that, you know, like

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that local control divide is being sort of tested in

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the legislature, right, So Democrats, who sometimes would be you know,

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very wary of like GOP attempts to like curtail cities authority,

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are kind of embracing some of these some of these proposals, right.

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And in the House, on that bill that you just

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mentioned should be twenty four, that's a bill that housing

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advocates of pretty much billed as being something that would

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enhance local control, but you also had Democrats who were

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voting against it. And so, like, I find some of

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the the crosswinds they're kind of fascinating. But you zooming

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out from that, you know, Republicans like the stuff because

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you know, it is an unleash the free market sort

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of move, it's a deregulatory move. Democrats like these things

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because you know, they're trying to enhance cities, they're trying

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to make those cities more affordable and you know, just

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make it easier to live there, and there are environmental

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reasons that you might want to do it. But then

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you also have you know, Republicans and Democrats who don't

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want their neighborhoods, you know, being messed with, don't want

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new housing near their neighborhoods, which is kind of an

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omnipartisan and it's not These things don't break cleanly along

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partisan lines. So that's been sort of refreshing to cover,

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honestly in the legislature, where so many things boil down

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to just pure partisanship.

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Speaker 2: Emily, what's that like for you? I mean, navigating these

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like you're sort of moving between different factions even within

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each of the parties on this issue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, housing policy is I think foundational for pretty much

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every other area of policy that Texas twenty thirty six

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in particular works on, and so for that reason it is,

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it's incredibly important and I think the understanding of that

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importance is increasing in the legislature. But it's also really

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a fun area to work on. It's a very optimistic

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area of policy. You know, fundamentally, you know, what we're

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trying to do at TEX twenty thirty six is increase

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opportunities for homeownership. Some of the ways you can do that,

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as Josh said, Josh said, we're you know, getting some

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of this like extraneous regulation out of the way, improving

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the diversity of the housing stack and that kind of thing,

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and the inevitable I believe result of these bills is

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cities that are more beautiful, more walkable, better for people,

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more efficient, allows people to work closer, to live closer

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to where they work, which is good for cities. And so,

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you know, do messages need to be tailored depending on

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who you're in front of. Yes, but that's pretty much

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the case for any any area of policy. And yeah,

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you know, there are a couple of leaders in the

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Capitol who are have just done a tremendous job at

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getting this stuff start, you know, shifted forward, and so

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it's kind of like following their lead.

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Speaker 1: And who would those leaders be? Who do you point

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to is really taking charge.

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Speaker 3: On this, Yeah, I would say, and Josh, you can

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chime into. I think Senator Paul Bettencourt, who's the chairman

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of the Local Government Committee, has done a tremendous job

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of embracing the approach of reforming land use, which you

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know last session was kind of the first attempt to

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do this on any kind of comprehensive level. So really

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look to him for for a lot of leadership there.

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Senator Brian Hughes, he's the one that has the companion

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to HB twenty four, which I think is the most

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important thing that we'll do for housing affordability of this session.

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Chairman Gary Gates in the House, I think he's I

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think he's a first time chairman for he's a first

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time chairman for the Land and Resource Management Committee and

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has also just done a great job at shepherding this

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stuff too. And those are you know, they're Republicans.

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Speaker 1: So, Josh, I was not going to make it through

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this podcast without bringing up our favorite topic of conversation

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these days, which is Abundance, the book by Ezra Right,

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that book which which we both read. You know, I

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know a lot of people have been reading right. It

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sort of makes the case of like really kind of

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redirecting particularly. You know, these are two liberal authors, more

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closely ideologically aligned with the Democratic Party, but really trying

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to push them toward a more like agenda, toward building

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and producing more and everything like that. And in that

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book they point to Texas a lot, and in interviews

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after that book they point to Texas a lot and say,

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you know, you know, look at Texas. Look at what

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Texas is doing. Texas has state leaders who are vocally

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and openly at times opposed to different types of green energy,

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but they are Texas is producing more new green energy

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by far than California, where you know, leaders are falling

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all over themselves to talk about how much they support it.

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They point to housing in the same way. Look at

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how much easier it is to build a house or

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an apartment complex in Texas than it is in California,

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where things are so much more expensive. It's interesting, though,

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to be seeing that national discourse, Josh, while we are

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also seeing Texas sort of be like, we really need

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to address this problem.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and some of the.

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Speaker 5: I think it was Jerusalem Denzlis said something recently where

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it's like what the Median sales price gets that three

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hundred and thirty k, and Texas leaders declare that like

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a crisis. Right, It's like it's we are we're really

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far ahead of the rest of the country on those

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like things look expensive here to to folks who live

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here and they are renters are spending a lot more

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on housing than they were, you know, even five years ago.

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It's harder to buy a house here, but like we're

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doing better than a lot, you know, most of the nation,

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certainly our peers in California and New York and Florida,

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and you know, it's been really interesting to see kind

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of where Republican lawmakers have have kind of gotten out

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ahead of this, right, they don't want to wind up

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in a place where they are and the median sales

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price is seven hundred k in California and where people

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are fleeing the state and where you know, their their

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economic miracle is you know, jeopardized. So they're really trying

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to you know, get out ahead of that. And because

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once you get there, as California has found and have

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New York has found, it's a lot it's very difficult

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to unwind.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I feel like housing is kind of like it's like traffic.

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It's like wherever you live, you feel like this is

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the worst it could be, right, Like this is so expensive,

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like I used to live, as I've talked a lot

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on this podcast about I used to live in Louisville, Kentucky,

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where you know, you could buy like a nice house

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for maybe you know, two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars.

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But even then, like we talked a lot about, like

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housing prices are increasing, right, and now it's like people

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are spending almost three hundred thousand dollars on like and

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it's like it there is always a pressure to like

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bring that number down or it feels very like heavy

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no matter likes as long as it's increasing, I think

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people are sort of discontented with that.

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Speaker 3: And you know, to be clear, like these bills fundamentally,

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they're just attempting to allow market forces to work on land.

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And if you love your small town and don't want

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it to change, then like let's make sure that people

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can live where they want to live and that they're

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not spreading out trying to find cheaper housing. So you know,

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I think that there has been some pretty successful fear

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mongering over what the effects of these bills will be

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and you know, if you live in a town or

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a city that does not have a six story apartment building,

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one is not going to pop up as a result

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of these bills. It's going to be gradual. As land

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prices increase, we should ensure that the most appropriate housing

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for that land is legal. And you know, these don't

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they're pretty I mean, I kind of think they're almost

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light touch bills. They're just removing barriers and we're going

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to see what the market produces.

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Speaker 1: I want to get into the weeds here about what

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those bills are. But first let's pause and hear from

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mention that you heard the pitch at the trip cast.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, please yes.

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Learn more at Texas real estate dot com. Okay, Emily,

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you said, I believe, if I heard you right, that

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you think HB twenty four is perhaps the most important

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of these housing bills.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.

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Speaker 1: Do tell us what this bill does.

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Speaker 3: Great, So, HB twenty four reforms a one hundred year

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old statute. It's in the local government code, and it

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says that if you want to change, if you want

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to build more housing on your property, and you need

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to seek a zoning change to do so, then owners

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of twenty percent of the land that surrounds your property

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within two hundred feet can sign a petition saying we

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don't want that to happen, and then your zoning change

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has to be approved by three quarters majority of the

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city council. This provision of state law is very very

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good at killing housing. One of the most recent kind

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of prevalent examples was last summer there was an eighty

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four unit apartment complex in San Antonio City Council had

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approved it once they had gotten some tax credits for it,

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neighbors protested it, and the zoning change was lost on

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a vote of seven city councilmen in favor and four

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a posts Beyond just the concrete examples, we know that

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and kind of the term we're using is the tyrants

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veto has a pretty significant chilling effect on new development.

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Builders are not going to build somewhere if the neighbors

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are going to cause them a lot of heartburn about it.

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You know, this, this provision of statue was kind of

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based in some of the more unsavory aspects of our

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nation's history, following you know, the end of racially based

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zoning in nineteen seventeen. It was right in there, and

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so it is it desperately needs to be reformed. What

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HB twenty four does is it says, instead of twenty

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percent of land ownership, it raises that threshold to sixty percent.

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That's that's kind of like the most salient point of

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the bill. And it also says that this provision of

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law does not apply to like a blanket zoning. So

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this this portion of statute is ultimately what killed the

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code next in Austin. It was not intended to apply

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to a huge blanket rezoning like that, so it changes

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that as well.

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Speaker 2: Josh, what's kind of the argument that you're hearing from

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folks about, you know, why we don't want to get

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rid of this what they're calling like the tyrants veto.

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Speaker 5: So this was something that the Democrats on the House

457
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floor were kind of bringing up, right, which is that

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if you because this this statute isn't limited limited to housing,

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it applies to all kinds of development. Is so John Bryant,

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who you know, a Dallas Democrat, was you know, basically saying,

461
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look like this isn't going to stop uh. You know

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if you if let's say, like a concrete match plant

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wants to get rezoned or wants to go up next

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with single family neighborhood, basically like you wouldn't be able

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to stop that under under this law. That's kind of

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like the most extreme example of that, right, and you

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know people have sort of countered, you know, I've heard

468
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criticisms of that basically being like, look like there's all

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kinds of things that would go into building up a

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concrete batch plant that wouldn't just pop up overnight. Right, So, uh,

471
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you know, there's there's a lot of rhetoric like that

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sort of flying around. But as far as I know,

473
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and Emily you can, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 4: The the times.

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Speaker 5: That like these, that these valid petition requests have been used,

476
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and I'm sorry to get some walking about it, but

477
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the ways that these that these the state law has

478
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:28,440
been used has mostly been on housing projects.

479
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: Right.

480
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 5: It's not on kind of like these large scale sort

481
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,160
of industrial sort of things, other kinds of development. It's

482
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,519
mostly been on housing. I know, there's like examples around,

483
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:41,200
like there was a there was a Dallas hospital expansion

484
00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:45,480
that that got uh mixed because somebody used the law.

485
00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:48,200
But mostly, as far as I know it's been, it's

486
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,160
been used for housing.

487
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with that. And you know, I

488
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:58,599
think fundamentally the bill asks how much control should your

489
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:02,240
neighbors have over your property? And I think raising that

490
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:06,440
threshold to sixty percent of land ownership is a totally

491
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,799
reasonable threshold. Again, if you know the concrete batch plant example,

492
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,240
it's uh, it was, it's effective, but again that's not

493
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:20,200
that's not how these are used. And there are also

494
00:28:20,279 --> 00:28:23,920
there are several other safeguards in place to prevent something

495
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,640
like that from from popping up.

496
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 5: Uh, and something else I want to chime in on

497
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:33,000
on this bill. You hear a lot about you know,

498
00:28:33,559 --> 00:28:38,640
cities retaining you know, local control over you know, sort

499
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,359
of their housing policies. A lot of arguments against these

500
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,000
these this round of bills have been look like, you know,

501
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,240
cities should have the say so when it comes to

502
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,240
saying how their land gets used, what kind of housing

503
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,240
goes where, And you know, it'll be really interesting to see,

504
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:59,000
like if this bill passes, you know, whether you know,

505
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:05,920
cities basically take up the mantle that the that the

506
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,359
legislature is kind of throwing down here.

507
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:09,119
Speaker 4: I'm mixing metaphors.

508
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:12,279
Speaker 5: Probably, but like, if you know this this bill is

509
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:16,480
basically a local control bill to some extent, right, it

510
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,240
unlocks cities abilities to you know, allow the kinds of

511
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,799
housing that the ledge is trying to allow, and possibly

512
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:27,400
go further right, And so it'll be sort of interesting

513
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,839
to see if cities actually go through with how they

514
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,599
use the law, if they take them up on that.

515
00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: All right, Josh, So now you get to pick to

516
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,960
tell us one big bill that has your attention that

517
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,720
you think will make a big difference in this issue.

518
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 5: So HB twenty four, I'm very curious to see where

519
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,839
it goes. But the other one, and I'm going to

520
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:54,160
botch the bill number I did send it earlier in

521
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,160
the chat. I've got a bill, Senate Bill eight forty

522
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:01,160
has that so Cenate Bill eight forty, which is a

523
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,400
bill by Brian Hughes, manial Republican, that would.

524
00:30:05,319 --> 00:30:10,319
Speaker 1: Basically that's right, that's right, so.

525
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 4: And so his bill would make it so you were.

526
00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 5: So let's say that I own a strip mall that's

527
00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:26,119
seen you know better days. Right, I'm seeing retail vacancy.

528
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:29,200
You know, my property taxes are going up, and I'm

529
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,799
just like not bringing up in enough income as I want.

530
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: I could, under this bill, redevelop that.

531
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:42,359
Speaker 5: That strip mall into a mixed use development that allows

532
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,200
you know, apartments and shops, right, Or I could build housing,

533
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,920
you know somewhere on that property.

534
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: Right.

535
00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 5: And I find that bill really interesting because it does

536
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,519
a couple of things.

537
00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:53,079
Speaker 4: One, it allows.

538
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 5: You know, basically homes to be built in commercial areas.

539
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,000
It allows them in places that currently allow warehouse development,

540
00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:05,960
that allow office development. And you know basically says hey,

541
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,519
if you want to turn that area into housing, go

542
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,400
for it. And you know that I think is going

543
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,400
to be a really interesting way to see like what

544
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:18,559
the demand.

545
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,799
Speaker 4: Is for for new housing.

546
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 5: Is the spait going to be unlocked? Are you going

547
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,359
to see you know a lot of sort of conversions.

548
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,880
Are you going to see them over time? And like

549
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,000
cities will just look.

550
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: Different if that's the case.

551
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 5: Right, Like we have mixed use development now, but often

552
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,680
it has to go through sort of like a rezoning

553
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,680
process and everything under this you could just do it right.

554
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,839
And it's also trying to tackle this notion of like

555
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,599
vacant offices. Right, we have a lot of vacant office

556
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,920
space in Texas and you know, this is kind of

557
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,680
also trying to address that as well.

558
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,799
Speaker 4: So like that's one where I think if.

559
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 5: That goes through, you might really see like cities take

560
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:55,960
a different form.

561
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting. I did not know that much about

562
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,079
that bill. It'll be interesting to see whether that changes

563
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:05,519
the market for those types of buildings. Right, If you're

564
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:08,680
a residential developer you want to build somewhere, is that

565
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:11,000
going to be a more attractive purchase because you have

566
00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:13,720
less red tape to cut through. Kind of an interesting

567
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:15,519
to watch, a thing to watch if that goes through.

568
00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:17,119
I mean, the other thing that I want to sort

569
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,519
of bring up is this idea of two separate bills

570
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:25,480
SB fifteen sbix seventy three. Fifteen deals with minimum lot sizes,

571
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:30,920
SB six seventy three deals with accessory dwelling units, both

572
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,000
issues that have been talked a lot about on in

573
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,000
individual cities in Texas, but an effort to maybe do

574
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:40,960
somethings statewide there tell us a little bit about those measures.

575
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the minimum lot size bill, it's a refile

576
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:49,440
from last session. Last session it was significantly broader. The

577
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,680
bill authors the session have taken like a really narrow

578
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,559
tailored approach with the idea of being, you know, we

579
00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:01,119
should not force Texas families to buy more dirt than

580
00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:04,559
they need to put a house on. And so the

581
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:09,480
bill in ten big cities in green fill development. So

582
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:12,240
that's neighbor This is not like redevelopment of neighborhoods. This

583
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:16,240
is new neighborhoods. We'll say that the minimum lot size

584
00:33:16,279 --> 00:33:20,160
is going to be like fourteen hundred square feet. What

585
00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:25,240
this minimum lot size proliferates is those tall, skinny Houston

586
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,240
town home that that's the kind of typology that works here.

587
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:31,640
We'll see, how, you know, we'll see what pops out.

588
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,799
That's kind of the whole the whole thing about this

589
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,799
package of bills is we're just going to kind of

590
00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:40,880
see what the market produces. Six seventy three eighty US

591
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,279
is again a refile from last session. As you all remember,

592
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:48,680
that was probably the most dramatic housing bill of last session,

593
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:51,160
went down on the House floor by I think two votes.

594
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:55,839
That is a Senator Hughes bill this session, no population

595
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,279
bracket on that would allow homeowners to build you know,

596
00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:03,200
grainy flats casitas on their property by right. That that

597
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:07,359
one's really great for kind of the you know, new

598
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,119
wave of multi generational living. Also, one of the stats

599
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:16,000
I like to use is that half of parents of

600
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:20,239
adult children are now supporting those adult children financially to

601
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,920
the tune of like fourteen hundred dollars a month. So yeah,

602
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:26,199
I am not getting that calling my parents, ye, but

603
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,159
that's I told my mom that she's really mean. So

604
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:36,440
the you know, the ADU works great for grandparents. It's

605
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,239
a great idea for you know, the young fresh out

606
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,360
of college kid trying to get on their feet fourteen

607
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,599
dollars a month, fourteen hundred dollars a month. I'm so

608
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,119
hung up on that. We'll keep like, we'll come back

609
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:49,119
to that one. I know, I know, yeah, I'm getting

610
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:50,000
zero dollars.

611
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 2: Also explains a lot about help, and that's everyone's going

612
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,800
to Europe every summer. I know, now I get it.

613
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: You Actually, if if I can diverge a little bit

614
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,000
on this kind of on this idea of like the

615
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,679
really intense financial support that people feel that they need

616
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,440
to give their kids. You know, when when when my

617
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:15,639
husband and I bought our house in twenty twenty one

618
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:19,360
in May in Austin, you know, we talk about that

619
00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:23,079
is one of our like crowning achievements in life is

620
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:27,079
being able to do that by ourselves. And it's just

621
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,880
that's a crazy thing something that has you know, for decades,

622
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,039
all of our parents were probably able to purchase homes

623
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,960
for a marker of adulthood. Yeah, and like a step.

624
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:40,679
It's just like part of like yeah, and now it's

625
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,119
like yeah, so out of reach for so many people. Yeah,

626
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,199
and so you know, you're lucky if you can like

627
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,320
do it without help. And I've got friends now that

628
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,960
they're buying homes and they just have to have this

629
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:57,440
significant help for mom and dad. Can I mention a

630
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,119
couple of other bills?

631
00:35:58,199 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 4: Sure?

632
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 3: Okay? SB seven eighty five is a bill that kind

633
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,400
of reforms how municipalities look at manufactured housing. Like I said,

634
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,800
we want to increase the diversity of housing. Manufactured homes

635
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,280
work for many families, but some cities, you know, they

636
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,880
like relegate them to a teeny tiny zone or they

637
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,519
prohibit them altogether. This bill says you got to find

638
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:29,880
somewhere to put them. My favorite bill, not the most

639
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,719
important bill that still goes to HB twenty four, SB

640
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,639
twenty eight thirty five. I don't know if you've got

641
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:36,440
that one on your list.

642
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: No, I do you do?

643
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: Okay, SP twenty eight thirty five, and it's companion HB

644
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:47,280
fifty eight. Those create pathways for cities to build single

645
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,840
stare building. I was hoping we could talk about, ok stairs, Okay, yes, yeah,

646
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,760
do you have? Like should I kick it over to you?

647
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: Do you have?

648
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,039
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I like suddenly, and I

649
00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:58,199
think because it's been been debating, I'm like suddenly, it's

650
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,760
like all over my Twitter feed and yeah, yes, okay,

651
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:02,960
I'm single stair pilled.

652
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, yeah, so this is and you you know,

653
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,400
I'm sure that this is an Emily in Paris loving

654
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:16,000
crowd up here. Yes. So uh I pointed both of

655
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,199
us on that. Yeah, so it's this is how the

656
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,480
rest of the world builds apartment buildings. If you've seen

657
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:23,960
Emily in Paris, you know, she lives here and then

658
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,320
there's a staircase, and then like the cute boy lives

659
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,880
up here, yes, the chef. Yes, okay, great, So you've

660
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,239
seen a single stair building and we don't build them

661
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,639
here because there's this entity called the International Code Council.

662
00:37:39,079 --> 00:37:42,440
They put out something called the International Building Code. The

663
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:45,519
legislature didn't create it, nobody voted on it, but it

664
00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:49,079
is the building code of record for the state, and

665
00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:52,400
for a long time it's prohibited those single story buildings

666
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,559
from getting built. So instead what you see are those massive,

667
00:37:56,599 --> 00:38:00,519
gargantuan apartment complexes. That's what that's what's pop up all

668
00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:02,320
over you know, our city and others.

669
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 4: They call them the Texas donut.

670
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: The Texas donut. Yeah, and they they have to be

671
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:12,679
that big because it costs a lot more to build

672
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:15,320
a second stairway and the corridor in the middle to

673
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,159
connect all of the apartments. It raises the cost of

674
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:22,480
building by like nine to thirteen percent. So the single

675
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,000
stair buildings are you know, they're twenty four unit complexes.

676
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:30,000
They're oriented for families because you've got light on multiple

677
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:35,039
sides in the buildings. This is how we do lifelong neighborhoods.

678
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,320
They fit on property that would otherwise not be viable

679
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,360
for multi family development. And you know, I think like

680
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:45,719
if you could have a single story, a single stair building,

681
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,320
like you know, in your neighborhood, and that's where you

682
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,679
get your start, and then your kids get a little

683
00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:54,960
older and you move down the block to the single

684
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,679
family home, and then kids move out, mom and dad

685
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,880
get older and they can move right back in, but

686
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:04,840
stay in that community. So I'm I'm really pumped about

687
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,280
that bill.

688
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,159
Speaker 2: So I feel like single stair buildings, like in Emily

689
00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:13,000
in pairs, facilitate love. Because if I live in an

690
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,679
apartment building and if I see a neighbor anyone is

691
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,639
in the other stairwell, I go to the other stairwell

692
00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:20,280
because I I don't want to talk to someone right now.

693
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,199
Speaker 3: We have not considered the romance implication.

694
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, some really rough things happened in that Emily in

695
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,559
Paris relationship.

696
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 3: Maybe I have avoided.

697
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: Maybe double stairs allows you to remain in your same

698
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:38,920
apartment building after having a bad breakup in that same

699
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,599
building because you can use the other stairs an argument

700
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:42,440
against single stairs.

701
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's true. That's true. Yes, And I thank

702
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:50,280
you for that, for a truly balanced approach. But you know,

703
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,880
these are just all approaches to like finding places where

704
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,679
we can ease the pressure. You know, nobody is trying

705
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:02,519
to take away the ability to build the big single

706
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:05,000
family homes on the big lots. Nobody's trying to take

707
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,679
away the ability to build the big apartment complexes also

708
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,079
on the big lots. But there is a lot of

709
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:14,679
space in the middle where we can kind of you

710
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,280
know again, just like see what the market creates, see

711
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,320
what demand is there.

712
00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I have some late breaking news. I looked

713
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,280
up the HB twenty two hundred human composting Billy. Yes,

714
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,519
I would like to apologize to the people who dump

715
00:40:34,559 --> 00:40:37,840
the bodies in the woods. Actually does not have anything

716
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,079
to do with that. I will read to you. It

717
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:45,400
is to allow for natural organic reduction process in which

718
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,840
the human body is placed into a controlled vessel mixed

719
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,519
with other natural materials, and over an approximately forty five

720
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:57,320
day process, is converted into a soil like material. Families

721
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,639
can choose to keep the soil of their level ones

722
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:05,760
or donate it for land conservation. This bill, I'm reading

723
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,599
from the analysis right here of the bill. The bill

724
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:11,079
author has informed the committee that while this option may

725
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:14,840
not be for everyone, Texans deserve to have the choice.

726
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:19,360
So there it is. Hernandez, Representative Hernandez.

727
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So to be clear, we still do not know

728
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:23,800
what the legality is of just throwing a body in

729
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:24,400
the woods.

730
00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:26,679
Speaker 1: I think actually that is legal. I think there was

731
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,599
a bill about that a few sessions ago.

732
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:32,039
Speaker 2: Okay, so already legal throw a body in the woods.

733
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:34,679
This is if you want to turn the body formally

734
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,760
into soil versus just throw the body walk away.

735
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to report that this bill was voted down

736
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:44,000
now on the twelfth.

737
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,119
Speaker 2: So we can't put our body into a controlled setting

738
00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:50,880
and turn it into soil that we can use for

739
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:51,800
natural conservation.

740
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: You will have to grow your tomatoes with non decomposing exactly.

741
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:58,519
Speaker 2: I do want to be clear, absolutely there are bodies

742
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:01,480
decomposing in all of our soil. But you just can't

743
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,679
be the body of a loved one.

744
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 1: You can't grotimatos with Grandma.

745
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sure this is an issue that's very important

746
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,360
to someone, but off the top it does sound a

747
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,760
little bit crazy.

748
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: I don't know.

749
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 4: I thought Texas was the land of freedom.

750
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the land of It's not the land of Grandma.

751
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:26,079
Speaker 1: We know, all right, Well, we I think have broken

752
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:29,400
a new record for most diversions in the podcasts. So

753
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,760
thank you to Josh, Thank you to Emily, both Brisillia

754
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,239
and in Paris. Yes, thank you to our producers Robin Chris,

755
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:43,559
and thank you to our sponsors Unlock MLS, Austin Reealtors,

756
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:47,440
and the Texas Tribune Membership program. And I have one

757
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,280
more thing to announce, which is that the Trip Cast

758
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,159
at the end of the legislative session will be having

759
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,719
a live recording at the Austin Central Library. The twenty

760
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,000
twenty five legislative session has been one of the most

761
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:03,880
consequential for Texas schools and libraries and recent memory. If

762
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,079
you love the Trip Cast, join us on Wednesday, June

763
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:11,280
eleventh at the Downtown Austin Central Library or online when

764
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,920
we're joined by Education reporter Jaden Edison and other special

765
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,280
guests to discuss what happened and look ahead toward the

766
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,519
impact on Texas schools and libraries. We'll also take questions

767
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:24,480
on the human compost seating.

768
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 2: We will get very up to speed on it by then.

769
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,639
Please come meet us in person, come to the trip cast,

770
00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:34,480
be part of the mania, and yeah, we look forward

771
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:35,039
to seeing you there.

772
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:39,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's at seven pm. Texastribune dot org slash events

773
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:42,440
to get more information. Thanks everyone,