Speaker 1: Tuesday Afternoon more NBA Basketball with one of our favorites,
Speaker 1: Lee Ellis, ESPN Australia, head of Global Pickup. But Lee,
Speaker 1: quite frankly, I don't mean to make you feel awkward
Speaker 1: or uncomfortable, a little bit of a pioneer. I don't
Speaker 1: know that I've ever really talked to you about this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you were among the first podcasters covering the NBA basketball.
Speaker 2: Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 3: Well somewhat, yes. I mean I wouldn't say I was
Speaker 3: the pioneer. I think that really title goes to Ski
Speaker 3: Pass and JD because they created a podcast before even
Speaker 3: I knew what a podcast was. But I certainly did
Speaker 3: come in and ride their coattails for a while there,
Speaker 3: and we began the show on NBA TV back in
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen. So you know, I wouldn't say I was
Speaker 3: the number one draft pick in that sense. I'd say
Speaker 3: I was a free agent signing. But I certainly like
Speaker 3: to feel that I made a contribution to the show.
Speaker 3: And you know, now it's amazing how many people. In fact,
Speaker 3: just today, here I am in Indianapolis, a guy came
Speaker 3: out to me on the street and he said, man,
Speaker 3: I remember you from the bus Jones Day's in Toronto,
Speaker 3: So that was quite a kind of freaky to sort
Speaker 3: of still hear that just out on the street, because
Speaker 3: you know, that was at a different time I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't think when the guys originally started
Speaker 3: it not even Twitter or Facebook or anything like that
Speaker 3: even existed, and they were doing a podcast and they've
Speaker 3: grown it into something that continues today. In fact, I
Speaker 3: believe it's going to be twenty years in January from
Speaker 3: when Skeets, Tats and jd did their very very first
Speaker 3: podcast back in JD's the basement of his house. I
Speaker 3: think it was back in two thousand and six in Toronto.
Speaker 3: So it's quite remarkable, how, you know, our journeys, everybody's
Speaker 3: journey is slightly different. But yes, the seeds of where
Speaker 3: I am today were planted in Toronto about fifteen or
Speaker 3: sixteen years ago.
Speaker 1: For myself, what was the name of the pod you
Speaker 1: guys had on NBA TV? Was it No Dunk's? Was
Speaker 1: it the Starters? I honestly can't remember what the name
Speaker 1: of the NBA TV pod was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we were the Starters on MBA TV and
Speaker 3: that was the TV show and a podcast. But yeah,
Speaker 3: We did that for six seasons, and it was honestly
Speaker 3: one of those sort of pinched me moments. Literally every day.
Speaker 3: In fact, I remember saying to my wife, like, I
Speaker 3: can't believe on NBA TV wearing plaid shirts. I'm talking
Speaker 3: to my friends about basketball, you know. So one day
Speaker 3: Shack came in while we were recording, got me in
Speaker 3: a headlock, and I'm like, I don't know how to
Speaker 3: explain this to anybody. Is you know. People would ask
Speaker 3: me like, hey, do you get on NBA TV, like
Speaker 3: that's a cool job, And I'm like, I can't really
Speaker 3: tell you because I don't know. There wasn't like a
Speaker 3: blueprint that I followed. It was just a few things happened,
Speaker 3: and the next thing I know, I had the biggest
Speaker 3: man in the world get me in a headlock on TV.
Speaker 3: So it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's funny, man, because I can. I mean, look, I'm
Speaker 1: a basketball sicko like you are. And so I watch
Speaker 1: NBA TV and I can remember watching back in the
Speaker 1: day and I was watching just some recap or highlight
Speaker 1: you and they're like, hey, don't forget tomorrow. At whatever time,
Speaker 1: tune in to the Starters, a basketball podcast I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you saying? What is this? I don't even
Speaker 1: know what any of this is. And you know, now
Speaker 1: everybody has a podcast. We podcast this show, and if
Speaker 1: you're in the ecosystem of media and sport period, chances
Speaker 1: are if you don't have a standalone pod, you pod
Speaker 1: your live show like we do here. And would you
Speaker 1: characterize it as something that was kind of like beyond
Speaker 1: anything you dared to dream about as far as how
Speaker 1: you got into it.
Speaker 2: I always find it.
Speaker 1: Interesting to hear the origin story of how people were
Speaker 1: able to carve out their piece of real estate in
Speaker 1: this ecosystem that's really hard to find real estate in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's a great way of putting it
Speaker 3: because you know, again, no one really knew what it
Speaker 3: was or what it was going to become. And I
Speaker 3: remember again in the early days speaking to those guys
Speaker 3: because they had normal jobs, skeets passed and JD who
Speaker 3: I'm referring to here, So they would record their pod
Speaker 3: at like six o'clock in the morning over Skype, you know,
Speaker 3: put the podcast out there, then go about their daily jobs.
Speaker 3: And so there was no money in it. They weren't
Speaker 3: like sitting back rolling in money. They had to put
Speaker 3: all their own money and time into it, and j
Speaker 3: had just become a father and they were just trying
Speaker 3: this thing that no one really knew what happened. But
Speaker 3: because at the time Apple iTunes, I think it was
Speaker 3: still called then you know, people from around the world
Speaker 3: started listening to it because basketball is such a global sport,
Speaker 3: and that encouraged the guys and it inspired them to
Speaker 3: keep going, and eventually they made it to The Score,
Speaker 3: which is an independent sports TV network in Toronto, and
Speaker 3: from their NBA TV got hold of it and moved
Speaker 3: us all down to Atlanta. And you know, so again
Speaker 3: the story itself is sort of even when I'm saying
Speaker 3: this to you, and I've said this on numerous podcasts
Speaker 3: over the years, I'm sort of like, man, it's amazing
Speaker 3: how many things just had to sort of line up
Speaker 3: and be ready to go. And you know, getting visas
Speaker 3: even to come and work in America is not easy
Speaker 3: as well. We have to somehow convince the immigration lawyers
Speaker 3: that we were, you know, worthy of getting work visas
Speaker 3: and things like that. And then I remember again, you know,
Speaker 3: when we're doing a podcast in Toronto, there was no
Speaker 3: time limit, so you know, you can go for an
Speaker 3: hour or an hour and a half or whatever. We
Speaker 3: came to the NBA TV and we had a forty
Speaker 3: four minute show daily that we had to hit and
Speaker 3: I remember just thinking like, oh my god, this is
Speaker 3: like crazy. You can't be as loose on TV. You
Speaker 3: certainly have to dress it a little nice, so you
Speaker 3: have to be a little more, you know, professional in
Speaker 3: how you approach it. You can't certainly can't swear and
Speaker 3: things like that that you can on a podcast. So
Speaker 3: it was a real adjustment. But I think we all
Speaker 3: got motivated and inspired by so many people who saw
Speaker 3: us as non former players, just fans of the game
Speaker 3: trying to bring an entertaining angle to it. Like we
Speaker 3: we never claimed to be former pro players or anything
Speaker 3: like that. We were just guys who you know, started
Speaker 3: something new that grew into a TV show, And you know,
Speaker 3: our love for the game is what so many people
Speaker 3: around the world I think could relate to and connect with.
Speaker 2: And I think it's really cool. Man.
Speaker 1: I always applaud people that have the courage to just
Speaker 1: try stuff like we love this, so let's go try it,
Speaker 1: Let's see what it turns into. Let's give it some effort.
Speaker 1: Let's give it some you know, some real energy and resources.
Speaker 1: And yeah, stories like that are really cool. All right,
Speaker 1: let's before we get to nick Pacers tonight. I said
Speaker 1: this earlier, Lee, I want to see if you agree.
Speaker 1: I think Minnesota last night beats almost every team in
Speaker 1: the NBA except the team they played right like. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of conversation today about Aunt this and
Speaker 1: Julius randall that, and certainly there's some things that we
Speaker 1: can get into that are probably fair. I thought last
Speaker 1: night was far more about who Oklahoma City is as
Speaker 1: opposed to who Minnesota is not.
Speaker 2: I was quick to.
Speaker 1: Be a little bit skeptical about Okase's ability to run
Speaker 1: through the playoffs, only because we haven't seen it before.
Speaker 1: But in a vacuum, last night was an incredibly entertaining
Speaker 1: basketball game, and I think if you're Minnesota, you're just
Speaker 1: kind of like they might be better than us and
Speaker 1: everybody else. Give me your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and I think you know what you're saying
Speaker 3: with the Thunder is they were the number one seed
Speaker 3: with a you know, by a mile in the Western Conference,
Speaker 3: whereas the Wolves were the six seed any other season.
Speaker 3: If you had the one versus the sixth seed. The
Speaker 3: number one said should win fairly comfortably. Now, Game three
Speaker 3: was that season on the line type of response from Minnesota,
Speaker 3: and you could almost see Oklahoma City kind of let
Speaker 3: go of the rope there a little bit once he
Speaker 3: got out of hand in the second half. But then
Speaker 3: they regathered and regrouped and sort of showed last night
Speaker 3: they flexed their muscles a little bit more, saying like, hey,
Speaker 3: we are better than this team. They have got a
Speaker 3: few vulnerabilities and I think they exposed them last night.
Speaker 3: And I hope to give a lot of credit to
Speaker 3: Shay Gildas Alexander, because you know, he's almost gone to
Speaker 3: that point where he was a big fan favorite, and
Speaker 3: now people are starting to turn on him, criticizing him
Speaker 3: for the free throw embellishment whatever, you know, whatever that
Speaker 3: really means. But he's gone out there and led his
Speaker 3: team and he handled everything. And I put a lot
Speaker 3: of it actually back into that Denver Nuggat series as well,
Speaker 3: where they looked bad against the Nuggets at times, but
Speaker 3: as really good teams do they get the job done,
Speaker 3: and I think that's important. I think that does sort
Speaker 3: of build you up and get you ready for the
Speaker 3: next round. Whereas the Timberwolves, I mean, when you have
Speaker 3: a win like that, I think it was forty two
Speaker 3: points in game three, it's almost it's almost like too much.
Speaker 3: They didn't have to fight, they didn't really have to
Speaker 3: do everything. They just sort of everything they threw up
Speaker 3: went in. But it wasn't like they had something really
Speaker 3: solid to fall back on because last night they kind
Speaker 3: of got exposed a little bit. And Anthony Edwards. I
Speaker 3: heard what he said after the game, because he'd been
Speaker 3: criticized and not taking though shots. He said he made
Speaker 3: the right place. Maybe he did. I think there is
Speaker 3: an argument there, but you also expect your start to
Speaker 3: sort of say, well, it's a bit like Karl Anthony
Speaker 3: Town's here in Indiana on Monday night where or Sunday night,
Speaker 3: excuse me, where he was like, right, I'm putting my
Speaker 3: team on my back and we are not losing this game.
Speaker 3: And I didn't really see that from Anthony Edwards, like
Speaker 3: he didn't go down fighting. He played well enough, but
Speaker 3: it wasn't the sort of epic performance where you thought, man,
Speaker 3: he left it all on the table there last night.
Speaker 3: I think he had a little bit more in the
Speaker 3: Chamber and we'll see. Now they obviously go to a
Speaker 3: must win game in Oklahoma City, but you know, and
Speaker 3: there's people saying, ah man, Oklahoma City, like you know,
Speaker 3: the NBA doesn't want that. Well, I'm the opposite. I
Speaker 3: think this is great for the league. I think there's
Speaker 3: a bit more parody, there's a bit more evenness, and
Speaker 3: every team is a chance, and we're seeing that with
Speaker 3: you know, we're likely to get Oklahoma the City and
Speaker 3: Indiana in the finals. I'm fine with it. I think
Speaker 3: these both fun teams to watch. I love watching the
Speaker 3: young stars emerge, and I think we've set up for
Speaker 3: a really, really fun finals. However it turns out, because
Speaker 3: the other one is maybe we get Minnesota versus New York, who,
Speaker 3: of course had that incredible trade right before training camp
Speaker 3: started last season, so that would be a fun way
Speaker 3: to cut the season as well. But you know, I
Speaker 3: think no matter what happens, people are going to criticize
Speaker 3: the league and criticize the game and things like that,
Speaker 3: because that's the nature of social media these days. But
Speaker 3: as a fan and as an analyst, I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker 2: So let's dig into the ants stuff for a minute.
Speaker 1: Because you know Game three he comes out of the
Speaker 1: gates completely on fire, and certainly, if you want to
Speaker 1: see more engaged in Game three out of the gates,
Speaker 1: I guess I can.
Speaker 2: Concede that point.
Speaker 1: But what I saw last night from Oklahoma City is
Speaker 1: Mark Dagnola lets to move off of the Hartenstein stuff.
Speaker 1: He puts chat into the five, he goes small, and
Speaker 1: then on every dribble, handoff, on every pick and roll,
Speaker 1: on every off ball action, you have first of all
Speaker 1: lout Dort who plays defense like he's a middle linebacker,
Speaker 1: Jalen Williams who's like all NBA defense caliber, Shay who's
Speaker 1: six 's eight, and then either Alex Caruso or Case
Speaker 1: and Wallace that are both just absolute dogs on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: And they blitzed Aunt on every single pick and roll
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of his drives. He was double teamed.
Speaker 1: Every time he put the ball in the deck. They
Speaker 1: ran two defenders at him. Lee, I don't know what
Speaker 1: you do if your Aunt, because they're just like you
Speaker 1: go back and watch it. There's no room for him
Speaker 1: to get his shots off. And he did make the
Speaker 1: right play, I thought more often than not, and his
Speaker 1: teammates did knock down shots, so you know, you hear
Speaker 1: the inside guys like Kenny always talks about, if you're
Speaker 1: one of the great players, I need you to take
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty shots, then I know kind of where
Speaker 1: you're at. And if those shots are forced in the
Speaker 1: face of two and three defenders, they're not high quality looks.
Speaker 1: So what was Ant kind of supposed to do when
Speaker 1: the OKC game plan was clearly we are going to
Speaker 1: throw two of these dog defenders at him every time
Speaker 1: he gets the ball, and.
Speaker 2: We are going to make other players beat us.
Speaker 1: And they almost did, because they scored forty one points
Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter against one of the best defensive
Speaker 1: teams that we've seen in a long time. I'm just
Speaker 1: not sure what Ann was supposed to do last night
Speaker 1: in the face of that game plan that was designed
Speaker 1: to take him entirely out of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's again, it's a good question, and
Speaker 3: it's a fair way to sort of analyze it, because
Speaker 3: you know, we always sort of say like we want
Speaker 3: the guys to step up and make the big play,
Speaker 3: and that doesn't necessarily mean make the big shot. I guess, so,
Speaker 3: you know, from what I saw, had a couple of
Speaker 3: those drives where he went inside fairly quickly. Now, if
Speaker 3: you know the double is coming, then maybe that's on
Speaker 3: the coaching staff there of Chris Pinch, but it's also
Speaker 3: maybe on Anthony Edwards to get into that action a
Speaker 3: little quicker to try to beat that double, or you know,
Speaker 3: see if he can get a switch to get a
Speaker 3: defender that you prefer to have there. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: always we're all Monday morning quarterbacks after the game and
Speaker 3: we can you know, analyze and criticize and things like that.
Speaker 3: But he had a couple of moves because he is
Speaker 3: so athletic and he is so fast that he can
Speaker 3: cruise inside to me, you know, seemingly at will. But
Speaker 3: last night he did it a couple of times, but
Speaker 3: then he sort of hesitated. And again maybe the leadership
Speaker 3: from him is like, I don't want to have to
Speaker 3: do it all myself. I want to show trust and
Speaker 3: faith in my teammates. And you know, again, there's no
Speaker 3: real right answer, because if he has one of those
Speaker 3: games where he goes for forty five points or fifty
Speaker 3: points or something like that, then maybe people will criticize
Speaker 3: him anyway and say, hey, you've got to trust your
Speaker 3: teammates more. But it's a tough one. I mean, I
Speaker 3: remember Jason Tatum's, fortunately his last game of the season
Speaker 3: in New York City against the next He had forty
Speaker 3: two points and he was carrying his team, you know,
Speaker 3: putting them into a spot where they were going to
Speaker 3: win the game. Now they ultimately didn't, but what I
Speaker 3: saw from him was a leader who was like, I
Speaker 3: know these other guys can do it, but tonight, I'm
Speaker 3: going to step up and do it. And he was
Speaker 3: on the way to doing that before I unfortunately got injured.
Speaker 3: So there's always you know, again, it's always easy to
Speaker 3: look back, I think, and sort of pinpoint things and
Speaker 3: say you should have done this, he should have done that.
Speaker 3: Either way, I think Anthony Edwards will learn from last
Speaker 3: night's game and we'll see how it plays out in
Speaker 3: Game five and not just for this season but beyond,
Speaker 3: because I truly think he has got that elite level
Speaker 3: competitiveness in him and ultimately he'll become better for it.
Speaker 2: Before we move out East.
Speaker 1: A thought on Julius Randall, who, in fairness, has had
Speaker 1: the best spring that he's ever had as an NBA player.
Speaker 2: As a Nick fan, I can speak to it.
Speaker 1: I always was skeptical of the way the previous Nick
Speaker 1: team was built only because j Allen's awesome. But if
Speaker 1: your number two offensive option is Julius Randall, you're going
Speaker 1: to run into games like we've run into over the
Speaker 1: past two where he is watching from the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: like he's watching from the bench in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: and I just for all the ant stuff, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at Julius one of seven, five points, five turnovers. And
Speaker 1: the problem with Julius Randall, this has always been the deal.
Speaker 1: If he's not scoring, if he's not involved offensively and
Speaker 1: making shots, he's just not as engaged defensively.
Speaker 2: And we saw it last night.
Speaker 1: So what's your take on what we've seen from Julius
Speaker 1: Randall over the past couple of games.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean go back to those first two
Speaker 3: games in ok See, and he was really aggressive from
Speaker 3: the start. They're almost like he was like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 3: going to show the years of my experience here because
Speaker 3: you're hitting freeze and he was aggressively on for a shot.
Speaker 3: But certainly that has been the criticism of Julius Randles
Speaker 3: throughout his career, where some nights he looked like an
Speaker 3: all NBA caliber player, and other nights like last night,
Speaker 3: he does seem to be sleepwalking a little bit more.
Speaker 3: And I think that can assistancy is tough for a
Speaker 3: lot of players because you have those good games and
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden things aren't going your way.
Speaker 3: What do you have as a backup? When do you
Speaker 3: go to Plan B? And Julius doesn't really seem to
Speaker 3: have that, Whereas you know, you would like to see
Speaker 3: him go inside again, maybe try to draw some fout,
Speaker 3: get some high percentage looks, whatever it is. If the
Speaker 3: three is not falling, if the mid range is not falling,
Speaker 3: have something else there in your bag, And at times
Speaker 3: he does. But again it's a little bit frustrating because
Speaker 3: there are times where it just seems like he's just
Speaker 3: not focused on the game. And again, last night was
Speaker 3: a must win really for the Wolves. I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: they're still statistically in it, but for all intents and purposes,
Speaker 3: are going to lose in five games here. And it
Speaker 3: was just a frustrating way because I thought, even though
Speaker 3: it was close last night, I always felt that the
Speaker 3: thunder were in control. And I think you know that
Speaker 3: that was sort of reflected in the score. In the end,
Speaker 3: the Wolves gave it everything, but ultimately they just didn't
Speaker 3: have that same or that same aggression that they had,
Speaker 3: you know in Game three which got them that huge win.
Speaker 3: And you know, the Thunder were able to sort of
Speaker 3: overcome that like a pretty embarrassing loss there, and they
Speaker 3: were able to bounce back a lot quicker, whereas it's
Speaker 3: almost like maybe the Wolves thought all their work was done.
Speaker 3: Who knows, But you know, we'll see the playoffs this
Speaker 3: year then, and you know, every series seems to be
Speaker 3: a little bit crazy, So there is a chance, you know,
Speaker 3: if you sort of think about it, that the Wolves
Speaker 3: could still extend this series and get themselves back into it.
Speaker 3: But I think they probably blew their.
Speaker 1: Chance last night, all right, before we get to tonight
Speaker 1: Sunday's game in Indiana, you know, I was ready to
Speaker 1: turn it off in the second quarter and ready to say, okay,
Speaker 1: this is a sweep.
Speaker 2: The next go down twenty.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the more under talked about dynamics
Speaker 1: of Sunday Lee, in my opinion, is the way New
Speaker 1: York closed the second quarter to get it down to thirteen. Now,
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound like a lot but when they went
Speaker 1: down twenty and Halliburton gets the steal, there's a dunk.
Speaker 1: It just felt like there was no way back, even
Speaker 1: though the next have come back down from you know,
Speaker 1: come back from down twenty points a couple of times
Speaker 1: against the Celtics, the Pacers just felt like they were
Speaker 1: built differently. When Nie Smith hurt his ankle, that changed
Speaker 1: the scope of the game. On Friday, I said, a
Speaker 1: couple of different times, can Tom Thibodeau find ten to
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes for Landry Shammitt, for Delon Wright even precious
Speaker 1: to you who did not play, And he was able
Speaker 1: to find some minutes for some of his bench players,
Speaker 1: and Jalen was in foul trouble, so of course he
Speaker 1: was limited as far as his minutes go, which I
Speaker 1: think is good because the starters didn't look like they
Speaker 1: were dying down the stretch in Game three because he
Speaker 1: was able to get some rest. You know, Kat has
Speaker 1: that stretch to the start of the fourth. It reminds
Speaker 1: you like how special he is when he's engaged. But
Speaker 1: your main takeaways with how New York came back from
Speaker 1: that deficit and got it done on Sunday.
Speaker 3: Well, it was quite interesting because TJ. McConnell had a
Speaker 3: press availability yesterday and he was asked like, did you
Speaker 3: guys maybe take you from the gas a little bit
Speaker 3: when they were up twenty with about seven minutes to
Speaker 3: go in second quarter, and he said, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: subconsciously you do. You sort of feel like you've got
Speaker 3: the game in hand a little bit. And then the
Speaker 3: Knicks made a little push to get it close with
Speaker 3: a half time, and then it was still about double
Speaker 3: digits going into the fourth and it felt like then
Speaker 3: Karl Anthony Town's had four points and four rebounds, was like, man,
Speaker 3: the headlines are not going to be kind to him tomorrow.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like this guy has not stepped up.
Speaker 3: And instead he went out there and delivered one of
Speaker 3: the best performances, not just for the fourth quarter in
Speaker 3: about a seven minute stretch there where he had twenty
Speaker 3: points and eight rebounds, hit the big three, and most
Speaker 3: importantly and most impressively, he attacked the rim too. He
Speaker 3: went at Miles Turner, he had a huge and one dunk.
Speaker 3: He had another layup where he just went straight at
Speaker 3: Turner and said, you're either going to block me or
Speaker 3: I'm getting a basket. Here and both times he made
Speaker 3: it turn it into a three point play, and so
Speaker 3: we know that that is what Karl Anthony Towns is
Speaker 3: capable of, and it took basically the next season to
Speaker 3: be on the line there for him to bring it out.
Speaker 3: And so now I'm really excited to see the game.
Speaker 3: I'm going to be heading to the arena in about
Speaker 3: half an hour or so here because I really want
Speaker 3: to see if Karl Anthony town starts the game like that,
Speaker 3: and if he comes out and he says, hey, I
Speaker 3: am the best player out there and these guys can't
Speaker 3: defend me one on one, and I want to see
Speaker 3: him put his team in a position where they don't
Speaker 3: have to come back from twenty points down, they don't
Speaker 3: have to sort of be in that position where it's
Speaker 3: like okay, all or nothing right now, instead have some
Speaker 3: sort of a comfortable game, because I think that's what
Speaker 3: the Knicks and Karl Anthony Towns are capable of. We
Speaker 3: just don't see it consistently. But that was another remarkable game.
Speaker 3: I mean, Jalen Brunson was in poun trouble. He had
Speaker 3: four in the first half. Pounds is often in foun trouble.
Speaker 3: Landry Shammick came out, gave him a decent little stretch there,
Speaker 3: hit a couple of baskets and the lot right another guy,
Speaker 3: another Vet. I think he can handle the possessions better
Speaker 3: than campaign anyway for it for a few minutes. And
Speaker 3: so Tom Thibodeau, he obviously mixed up the starting lineup
Speaker 3: as well. He went with Mitchell Robinson. He changed things.
Speaker 3: Now didn't necessarily work straight away because they were down
Speaker 3: to twenty as we discussed, but they got the win.
Speaker 3: And so now I'm really fascinated to see does Tom
Speaker 3: Tibbert now go a little deeper into that bench and
Speaker 3: not necessarily with more players, but give those guys like
Speaker 3: Shaman and Write a little bit more trust and a
Speaker 3: little bit more time to save the legs of guys,
Speaker 3: you know, like Bridges and like Brunton who have just
Speaker 3: played heavy, heavy minutes. Because I think that's the only
Speaker 3: real way the Knicks are going to survive and extend
Speaker 3: this series. They've got to get a few more guys
Speaker 3: a few more minutes and hold up their end of
Speaker 3: the bargain. Because the Pacers, who may be without Nie
Speaker 3: Smith tonight hasn't been announced yet, they can write a
Speaker 3: lot like that because they already play nine or ten guys,
Speaker 3: and I know Rick Carlile has some guys like Ben
Speaker 3: Sheppard who can come out there and play some really
Speaker 3: good minutes. So the Knicks saw something, I think in
Speaker 3: game three, and now we're going to be really interested
Speaker 3: to see if Tibeau sticks with that. In game four there.
Speaker 1: Were plus twelve and the seventeen minutes without Jalen and
Speaker 1: minus six and the thirty one minutes which he played. That's,
Speaker 1: of course, not an indictment on who Jalen Brunson is
Speaker 1: as a player, but it does make you curious about
Speaker 1: some of the defensive potential with some of the other lineups.
Speaker 1: With Carlisle, with his gamesmanship, of course, has made a
Speaker 1: couple of comments that have been somewhat interesting. But before
Speaker 1: I say you lose, Indiana's a two point five point
Speaker 1: favorite tonight. If Nie Smith can't go, my guess it's
Speaker 1: Ben Shephard, who's been solid as a perimitive defensive player
Speaker 1: and a guy that can knock down threes as well.
Speaker 2: So before I set you loose, do you have Aleen?
Speaker 2: Do you have Aleen? As far as how do you
Speaker 2: think we're going to see it go to night.
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good line. I favor the Paces because again,
Speaker 3: I think they were somewhat embarrassed how they lost Game three,
Speaker 3: and they know they stole home court advantage, which is great,
Speaker 3: but the worst thing is if you have home court
Speaker 3: advantage and you give it back. So I think they
Speaker 3: know that, you know Game five is going to be
Speaker 3: tough no matter what in New York City, that we
Speaker 3: know we're going there. I think the Pacers want to
Speaker 3: make sure they take care of business tonight because they
Speaker 3: don't want to get into a situation where the Knicks
Speaker 3: potentially turn this around and get up three too, because
Speaker 3: we know Game seven, if it goes that far, would
Speaker 3: be back in New York City. The Pace has won
Speaker 3: their last year, of course, but again every season, every
Speaker 3: series is different, So I think the Paces are okay tonight,
Speaker 3: but I think it is going to be a pretty
Speaker 3: tight one. I think it's going to be a low
Speaker 3: scoring affair. I think both teams are going to try
Speaker 3: to keep it a little bit slower than normal and
Speaker 3: just keep it tight. So I'll take the Paces well.
Speaker 3: I think they probably do cover, but not by much.
Speaker 2: Where can people go find your Worklee and follow along
Speaker 2: with the journey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just Lee Ellis on all the social channels there, Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 3: TikTok l e I g H d l l I
Speaker 3: F and yeah, I'll be at the arena tonight, so
Speaker 3: I'll be sharing what I see behind the scenes and
Speaker 3: all that good stuff.
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, enjoy the game. We'll chat soon, Okay,
Speaker 2: thanks having me.
Speaker 1: Le ellis old school podcaster legend as far as NBA
Speaker 1: podcasters go. He is in Indianapolis for the Knicks and
Speaker 1: the Pacers tonight at Lee Ellis on socializ. He reference
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