WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.040 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Haartru's podcast. 2 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:05.719 I'm your host Ashon Forbes. Today I have a very 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:10.080 special guest. Harvard astrophysicist A. V. Lobe is with me 4 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:12.320 today and we're going to talk science and physics. 5 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:12.560 Now. 6 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:14.560 The reason why I'm so excited to talk to Avi 7 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:17.160 Lobe is that he's not afraid to talk about topics 8 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:21.920 that other academics won't broach, like aliens and UFOs. So 9 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:23.559 today we're gonna talk about some amazing stuff. 10 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:23.839 Av. 11 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.120 Thank you very much for being with me today. How 12 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:26.559 are you doing? 13 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:30.640 Thanks for inviting me. It's a great pleasure. 14 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:33.960 So just let's get started right away. 15 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.840 I want to ask you about what I just mentioned 16 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:39.119 is from my perspective on the outside looking in, it 17 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:41.679 looks like academics are afraid to talk about some of 18 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:43.759 these topics that I see you talking about all the 19 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:47.399 time with podcasters, like can we communicate with aliens? What 20 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:51.039 would other civilizations look like? And how would other civilizations 21 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:52.640 use science and physics. 22 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:52.719 To get here? 23 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.039 What is it about you that makes you different? And 24 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.560 what do you think about your peers and if do 25 00:00:58.640 --> 00:00:59.439 they judge you for that? 26 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:05.239 Well, it's just a matter of common sense. We exist 27 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:08.400 on a rock that was left over from the formation 28 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:12.400 of the Sun, and we see similar rocks earth like 29 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:16.840 planets around the other sun like stars, and in fact, 30 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:19.560 there are hundreds of billions of such systems based on 31 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.359 the latest estimates, within the Milky Way galaxy alone, and 32 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:26.400 then there are trillion galaxies in the universe. So thinking 33 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:29.040 that we are unique and special and nothing like us 34 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:34.640 exists is really very presumptuous, very arrogant, and as a 35 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.840 matter of common sense, we should accept the possibility that 36 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:40.799 there are many other kids in our cosmic neighborhood and 37 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:42.239 they might be smarter than us. 38 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:44.239 What could be more natural than that? 39 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.120 So I'm just applying common sense, and to me, that 40 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.959 is part of reality that we have to learn about. 41 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:57.280 We see our house, it looks familiar, the Solar system, 42 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:00.239 the Earth moving around the Sun, and then we see 43 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:05.359 other houses, planets moving around other stars in our cosmic street, 44 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.760 and the only question we have to ask is whether 45 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:11.520 there are any residents in those houses. That's not such 46 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:15.240 a difficult question to address with modern science, with the 47 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:17.719 tools that we have. And so all I'm saying is 48 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:22.879 forget about science fiction, about the lord that the people 49 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:29.879 without any substantiation, bring up all kinds of stories that 50 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:35.960 have no credibility. Forget about this, it's completely unrelated. There 51 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.240 is a fundamental question whether we are not only away 52 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:44.199 from any physical center of the universe the way people 53 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:47.120 thought before coperaicles, but perhaps we are not even at 54 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:49.039 the intellectual center of the universe. 55 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:50.439 And let's learn from others. 56 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.800 Now, you may ask why is this common sensical view 57 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:59.680 not the dominant within the mainstream of the centific community. 58 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:04.360 And you know, that's one of these anomalies within academia, 59 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:09.240 that the culture is for people to show off that 60 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:13.280 they are smarter than others, not to take any risks 61 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.800 that may ruin the reputation, and not to interact with 62 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.919 the public in a sincere fashion. And usually the approach 63 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:24.520 is to have press conferences in which you tell the 64 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:29.599 public your results like a teacher in a class. But 65 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.479 that's not the way I see it. The public pays 66 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:37.400 money through taxes to support science, and the public cares 67 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.599 a lot about this particular question. So I think it's 68 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:45.400 completely inappropriate of scientists to ignore this question and to 69 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:49.520 have committees that are claiming that addressing this question is 70 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:54.479 too risky and in fact, may result in wasting taxpayers money. 71 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:57.919 I said that taxpayers want us to study it, we 72 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:00.759 should attend to that. But I do not hope to 73 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:05.680 get funded by the standard committees that NASA or the 74 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:09.240 National Science Foundation assemble, because they are full of those 75 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:16.519 traditional thinking and no risk taking scientists. And I get 76 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.920 all of my funding from private donations or donors. 77 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.399 So let me ask the devil's advocate thing, because I think. 78 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:26.040 That they would probably say, well, you can't go probably 79 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:28.319 even close to the speed of light and the nearest 80 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:32.439 stars four light years away, and from their perspective, they 81 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.079 would say, also, we can't achieve faster light communication, so 82 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.000 we're kind of just stuck out in the middle of 83 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:40.680 nowhere with no hope of ever getting to somebody. So 84 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:44.040 how do you respond to that criticism that they would levy, 85 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:45.879 And would you say that there might be another solution 86 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:47.000 that we just haven't figured out. 87 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.240 Well, that's not factually true. 88 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.120 So the thing is that Voyager, the spacecraft that we launched, 89 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:57.199 will exit the orcloud of the Solar System within ten 90 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.560 thousand years and we'll get to the opposite side of 91 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.639 the Milky Way galaxy in a billionaires. 92 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:05.680 Okay, now, most. 93 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:09.759 Stars like the Sun in the Milky Way galaxy formed 94 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:13.399 billions of years before the Sun. So if you imagine 95 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:18.040 a copy of what we have here just translated in 96 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.120 time to an earlier time by a few billionaires, then 97 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.319 they could have reached us by now. Even their voyager 98 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:29.560 like probes that move with the same technology, that are 99 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:35.040 propelled by chemical rockets, those would be able to reach 100 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.839 us as long as their star was at least the 101 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:43.480 billionaires ahead of ours. And that basically tells you you 102 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:47.399 don't need to travel because there could be objects that 103 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.959 arrived to our vicinity that spent recent billions of years 104 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:54.399 to get here. So instead of us going to the 105 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.600 neighbor's yard, we might as well check for any tennis 106 00:05:57.639 --> 00:05:59.879 balls that were thrown by the neighbor. 107 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.240 So you're expecting what when neurine as out as ven 108 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.759 Newman probes? Is that the theory that you're kind of 109 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:06.759 throwing out there. 110 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:09.800 I mean, even space trash. 111 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:12.360 You know, if as long as the civilization, you know, 112 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:14.600 we are preoccupied, if you look at the news, we 113 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:18.319 are preoccupied with problems on the surface of this rock. 114 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:21.759 And we invest two point four trillion dollars in military 115 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:27.079 budgets very often trying to kill others or avoiding preventing others. 116 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:27.639 From killing us. 117 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.439 And most of the time it's about territorial disputes or 118 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.319 power struggles. But this is all on the surface of 119 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.199 this rock, and in fact, there is much more real 120 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:44.959 estate out there and in interstellar space, so this makes 121 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:49.360 very little sense. And you could imagine that a civilization 122 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:53.399 that is sufficiently advanced, that has a perspective about interstellar 123 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.920 space would actually launch. 124 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:04.639 Equipment or actually evens or systems with artificial intelligence away 125 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:07.399 from their home planet. So this is really the key. 126 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.040 It's not so much how long does the civilization last, 127 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:15.399 but whether they escape from that original habitat that. 128 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.879 They were born on. And if they did. 129 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:21.600 It will just you know, even if the equipment that 130 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.639 they launched is not functional anymore, the wave voyager will 131 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:26.680 not be in a billionaires, you know, it will lose 132 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:30.639 its functionality. It will still be space trash. And just 133 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.199 like finding plastics in the ocean, you know, keeps accumulating 134 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.800 the gravity of the Milky Way galaxy can keep those 135 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.319 objects from escaping because they move at the speed that 136 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:46.360 is ten times too small, unlike the speed of light 137 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:50.079 that radio signals propagate. So the traditional approach was to 138 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:53.519 wait for a phone call, but nobody may call you 139 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:55.879 at the time that you're listening. And indeed, over the 140 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:59.800 past sixty years, we haven't detected any clear signal. However, 141 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.160 if you are searching for objects in your backyard or 142 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:08.279 packages in your mailbox, you know those may have arrived 143 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:12.600 a long time ago. The senders may be dead. Most 144 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:17.519 of these may not be functioning, but you could distinguish 145 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:22.160 them from natural objects like rocks, asteroids, comets. 146 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.120 And so I like that. I like that idea. 147 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:27.519 I mean you're looking under every stone literally and figuratively 148 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:31.560 for you know, possible signs of other beings or any 149 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:32.480 ancient civilization. 150 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:37.759 Well, actually, I should say that within the orbit of 151 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.279 the Earth around the Sun, there should be of the 152 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:46.000 order of millions of objects that are meter in size 153 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:50.039 from outside the Solar System. We know that based on 154 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.840 the frequency of interstellar meteors. These are objects colliding with 155 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.639 Earth that derived from outside the Solar System. So we 156 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:02.200 haven't really searched those millions of objects right now. 157 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:04.000 Within the orbit of Director around the Sun. 158 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.840 The Sun is significant because it acts like a lamp 159 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.679 post that is illuminating. So it's just like looking for 160 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.120 your keys under the lamp post on the street. It's 161 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.480 much easier to find the keys. So I'm saying there 162 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:19.240 are millions of possible keys, and all you need to 163 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.799 do is sort out whether any of them appears to 164 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.440 be technological in origin. And to do that, I mean, 165 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:28.240 we can't with the current telescopes. We can't truly observe 166 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.679 meter sized objects from the reflection of sunlight that are 167 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:35.840 too faint. But I'm suggesting, you know, with the investment 168 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.320 of hundreds of millions of dollars or a few billion dollars, 169 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:44.720 we can definitely study those and not nothing of that 170 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.120 nature was actually done so far. 171 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:48.639 And I actually just a. 172 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:55.200 Few weeks ago I heard the Peter Till who following 173 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.240 the presidential election, he said, you should never bet against 174 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:02.559 Elon mask And so the following day I wrote an 175 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:07.919 essay betting against Elon Musk because Elon said, while we 176 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:13.919 are probably alone in trying to motivate settling humans on 177 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:19.159 Mars so that the human species will be a multiplanetary species, 178 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:24.799 but I try to explain that in fact, you know, 179 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:28.279 they are within the observable volume of the universe that 180 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:35.519 attend to the power twenty one Earth Sun systems, and 181 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:39.039 we actually know that there is no cliff just beyond 182 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.200 the cosmic horizon, that the conditions continue for at least 183 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:47.000 four thousand times farther away. So they are altogether tend 184 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:52.440 to the power thirty one Earth Sun systems. And I'm 185 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:54.960 willing to take a bet that we are not alone, 186 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:57.679 okay with And my bet is that I will put 187 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:02.320 one percent of my net worth against one percent of Elon's. 188 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:03.600 Networth in a pool. 189 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:07.879 We would dedicate that to the study of any evidence 190 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:11.600 as I mentioned, for example, studying all the interestar objects 191 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.600 in our vicinity, and then if in ten years we 192 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:19.080 won't find the evidence, I will pay a second one 193 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:24.080 percent of my network to him. So if you think 194 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.039 about it, I mean, you might say that's a lot 195 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.559 of money on his part, but it's actually just four 196 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.679 billion dollars. The web Telescope was ten billion dollars, the 197 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:37.559 large hydron Collider was ten billion dollars. For addressing the 198 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.440 question and spend the metal as that it's not unusual 199 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:44.279 to spend billions of dollars. In fact, the next observatory 200 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:48.960 that the mainstream astronomy community wants to build would be 201 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:53.080 the Habitable World Observatory, looking for gases like oxygen or 202 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:57.360 method in the atmosphere of planets as they transit the 203 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.399 face of the star that hosts them. But that will 204 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.759 be probably in the twenty forties, and it's a huge 205 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:06.960 amount of money, and it's not clear that we would 206 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:10.679 learn whether microbes exist, because you can make those gases 207 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.000 also by natural origins that have nothing to do with life, 208 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:18.759 like geological processes. And what I'm saying is, with the 209 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:23.159 investment of less money than that but comparable, we can 210 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:28.720 not only find evidence for life, but in fact learned 211 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.159 that there are technological civilizations in our cosmic neighborhood. 212 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.159 Yeah, and I think most size he hasn't seen evidence 213 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.000 of aliens, which is kind of a different claim than 214 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.200 what you're putting out there, which is just from a 215 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.399 statistical odds perspective, there must be aliens out there. 216 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:45.039 Oh no. 217 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:49.320 So I actually addressed his comment on that matter as well. 218 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:53.159 He said that no object and that's related to you 219 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:57.679 a unidentified anomalous phenomenon. He said, no object collided with 220 00:12:57.919 --> 00:12:59.759 the communications satellite of Starling. 221 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:03.639 But I did a simple calculation. If you put. 222 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:09.440 A meter sized the object at the same altitude as 223 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.519 the Starling satellites, so you just put it there. 224 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.240 The chance of it colliding with the Starling. 225 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:19.679 Satellite is once in a thousand years, Okay, So the 226 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:22.919 fact that nothing collided with I mean, starting satellites are 227 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:28.919 not really built for the purpose of searching for objects 228 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:33.600 near Earth, and I put it in the same altitude. 229 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.440 It might be in very different altitudes than those satellites. 230 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.600 So that's not evidence for men. I mean, it's just 231 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.399 like saying the Starling satellites did not detect the Higgs boson, 232 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.720 therefore I have no evidence that the Higgs boson that exists. 233 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:49.039 Of course, you needed to build a machine, okay, within 234 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.559 a cern that took decades to build, that cost ten 235 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.200 billion dollars that would look for the Higgs boson. You 236 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.759 have to build equipment that is dedicated for the task. 237 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.679 You can't just accidentally expect new knowledge to fall into 238 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.679 your lab, because everything that falls into our lap is 239 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:12.279 already known. You know, we see birds, we know about 240 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.159 the moon. I mean, these are things we know about 241 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:17.559 because they are easy. The low hanging fruit, we've been 242 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.600 seeing them since we were born, and humans saw them 243 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.159 for millions of years. However, if you want new knowledge 244 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:27.360 something that is not easy to get it, you need 245 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:28.720 to put the effort. 246 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:29.519 And the money to do it. 247 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.519 Yeah, I agree, and I think that So I guess 248 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:35.440 let me press you and Elon both at the same time. Now, 249 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.440 I would say I would that one percent of my networth, 250 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.879 and I would say that if we started searching with 251 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.000 high frequency gravitational waves, we might find them. And the 252 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:49.279 reason why I say this is that you know, maybe there, 253 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:52.559 if alien civilization exists and they are much more advanced 254 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:56.559 than we are on the timescale, then I think, assuming 255 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:00.159 that they're gonna use communication methods that we use today, 256 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.279 it's kind of egotistical on our perspective. Maybe we're looking 257 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.000 at the problem all wrong. And maybe that's the reason 258 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.759 why said he hasn't been successful in finding messages and 259 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:11.440 why we've been kind of naive. 260 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:12.320 Well, it depends. 261 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.320 It depends what you call a high frequency because we 262 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.200 do have the Lago experiment that the text gravitation waves. 263 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.320 So far, all the signals detected relate to black hole 264 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.240 collisions within the observer universe. 265 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.960 So what do you mean those are low frequency gravitational 266 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:28.919 waves At least as far as I've been made aware 267 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.200 that those are. 268 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:34.000 Okay, well there they are the highest that we can 269 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:35.879 detect from Earth. 270 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.039 But there are lower. 271 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:44.240 Frequency waves that the LISA experiment will try to detect 272 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:48.320 within a decade or so. So actually nobody is talking 273 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:51.799 about higher frequency although in principal gravitation waves can go 274 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:55.519 all the way you know, to jigahertz or higher frequencies 275 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.440 that we have electromagnetic signals in. But to generate such 276 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.799 waves requires an auto mass and moving very fast. 277 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.200 That's exactly what I'm getting at, because at the end 278 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.360 of the day, we're talking about, well, are we cavemen 279 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:11.159 on this block? And if we are, if there are 280 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.240 civilizations that are out there, why are we assuming that 281 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.000 they're less advanced than we are. Well, they could be 282 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:17.879 easily more advanced. And look at how far we've come 283 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:20.919 in just one hundred years. Imagine us in a thousand years. 284 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.039 I don't think we're gonna be riding around on SpaceX rockets. 285 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:26.759 And so my question to you is, do you think, 286 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.799 like Elon Musk said, we're going interstet we're going interplanetary 287 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.840 on SpaceX rockets. I don't even trust SpaceX rockets to 288 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.879 take me to Mars. Let alone to like Europa or 289 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:38.399 another star system. 290 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.080 What about you? 291 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.320 Do you think that we're gonna go with that or 292 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:42.080 do you think it's going to require new technology? 293 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.320 No, of course, I mean we are just doing making 294 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.519 the baby steps in moving away from our planets right now, 295 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.320 you know, in these decades, and then obviously as we 296 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:58.759 develop a better technology, is we would move faster and better. Okay, 297 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:04.119 And so imagine and sending a ship into the ocean, okay, 298 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:08.119 that moves relatively slowly because it's propelled by wind, and 299 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.880 then you develop a steamship that moves faster because it 300 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.039 has its own propulsion. So obviously you know you would 301 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.599 pass the past technologies as you move by them. So 302 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.640 if you imagine a civilization developing on an extra planet, 303 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.480 at first you would see rockets that are rather primitive 304 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.680 chemical rockets that we're using coming out of the planet, 305 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:32.759 suppose you were looking at it, And then you would 306 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.519 see more and more sophisticated means of propulsion coming out 307 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:41.920 that move faster and basically reach the slower ones within 308 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.039 a relatively short time and then go much farther. And 309 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:49.720 so obviously the future would be far more impressive for 310 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:50.920 us if we survive. 311 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:52.319 That's the fundamental question. 312 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.960 You know, we discovered quantum mechanics just a century ago, 313 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.319 and you may ask how much longer. 314 00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:58.440 Do we have? 315 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.720 And if we don't leave our planet, you know, there 316 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.400 could be lots of catastrophes that could destroy our technological 317 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:09.400 Some of them are self inflicted and in the form 318 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:15.880 of AI or biological warfare, or maybe nuclear weapons and 319 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.720 political instabilities could trigger catastrophes, and. 320 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:21.880 So it's important to have more than on that. 321 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.759 I agree with Ilon that it's important for us to 322 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.759 venture outside of our planet. But the question is whether 323 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.079 that will be taking the form of humans in space 324 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.000 or maybe AI systems in space. 325 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:34.960 That's to be seen. 326 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:39.000 But one thing that is the reason for finding evidence 327 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.640 for other civilizations that preceded us by billions of years 328 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.359 is to see what they have done and get inspired 329 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.880 by it by it because it may give us new ideas. Now, 330 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:51.359 the way I approach it is not to imagine what 331 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:56.200 they are to say, oh, they send jiggahearts gravitational waves. Therefore, 332 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.599 I will try to build detector for jigger. Now, the 333 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.480 way to approach it is to use the best detectors 334 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.720 we have in any possible way. You know, whatever we 335 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.519 have at our disposal, and look for things that are 336 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:13.359 not familiar. Okay, so if we have infrared cameras, you 337 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.200 look at the sky and you see is everything in 338 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:23.759 the form of birds, clouds, leaves, drones, balloons, airplanes, satellites 339 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.400 or is there something that is not familiar? And it's 340 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.000 true in any domain, it could be the domain of 341 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.400 dervigational waves as well. So the point is just be 342 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.440 curious enough that when you see a signal that is anomalous, 343 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.160 you would entertain the possibility that it may be of 344 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:48.480 technological origin from outside of the Solar system. And you know, 345 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.680 that's really the block that keeps scientists away from this subject. 346 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.319 It's not the lack of anomalist it's the sort of 347 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:01.680 the distancing from the possibility that an object like Omumua 348 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.200 that looked weird in all ways, that was different than 349 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.000 any rock we have seen before. They would agree with 350 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:09.119 that that it's a rock of a type that we've 351 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.480 never seen before. But they would say that it's a rock, 352 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.440 that's it. And they would say the same about the 353 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.960 Tesla Roads, the car that Elon has claunched in twenty eighteen. 354 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.519 It's a rock of a type that we've never seen before. 355 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.559 So my point is we should be open minded that 356 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:28.480 others are doing what we are doing. That's not very 357 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.359 imaginative actually, and if you think about it, it shouldn't 358 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:36.359 be controversial. So when Enrico Fermi said where is everybody? 359 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:40.240 He was not trying to seek evidence. He was just 360 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.440 entertaining himself with this question during lunchtime. And you know, 361 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.519 whenever you see a lonely person, they often ask where 362 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:50.960 is everybody? And you tell them, look, don't think that 363 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.119 you're so attractive. They will be next to you all 364 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.319 the time. You need to be proactive, at the very 365 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:58.359 least look through the windows of your home to find 366 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:01.519 a partner, or go down the street and check. But 367 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:05.039 you can't just argue I don't see them next to me, 368 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.039 because this would have been the low hanging fruit. And 369 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.440 obviously they're not next to us because space is vast. 370 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.480 Time is measured in billions of years, so the chance 371 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:20.440 of them being next to Enrico Fermi in Los Alamos 372 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:25.599 in nineteen fifty one is miniscule. I mean, why would 373 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:29.880 exactly at that time, exactly that location, there would be 374 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:31.079 clear evidence for them. 375 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:32.400 I want to dig into that more in just a 376 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.440 sec but before that, I want to get your opinion 377 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:36.480 on something I haven't already talked about much, which is 378 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.799 what do you think about the UFO community, because I 379 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.720 haven't seen you interact much with like, really any of them, 380 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:45.680 and you know, is there a reason for that? Do 381 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.599 you avoid them for certain reasons? Is it two sensationalss 382 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:48.839 for you? 383 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.359 Go ahead, No, that's that's not true. I just don't 384 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.880 interact with many people at all. I mean, I don't 385 00:21:55.880 --> 00:22:00.799 have any footprint on social media, okay, and I don't 386 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.640 care how many likes I get. So I'm not running 387 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:08.279 a popularity contest. If I were running for the presidency 388 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.599 of the United States, obviously they would hear a lot 389 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:14.559 from me. But I'm not, and I'm just trying to 390 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:17.759 do my work, my contribution as a scientist to addressing 391 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:21.839 this question that they care about. And so I'm trying 392 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.920 to work rather than to talk a lot of people talk. Okay, 393 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.880 So you might say, well, that's great, let's talk about 394 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:32.799 this subject. Maybe it will bring disclosure, well, the disclosure 395 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.440 of what we need to see the actual evidence. Okay, 396 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.400 So either we see the evidence or you can just 397 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.240 talk about it. Forever without making any progress. So my 398 00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.200 point is, if the government will not provide us with 399 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.720 useful information on this issue. You know, the sky is 400 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.839 not classified, the oceans are not classified. I'm dedicating my 401 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.079