Speaker 1: Big Food and on.
Speaker 2: With Cliff and Bubo.
Speaker 1: These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and
Speaker 1: raid it.
Speaker 3: I'm stuck and me.
Speaker 2: Greatest on Bush today and listening, oh watching Limb always
Speaker 2: keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and
Speaker 2: James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 3: Greetings, Bobo.
Speaker 2: How you doing? Man?
Speaker 3: Go it's up, Cliff, Oh, lots of stuff, lots of stuff.
Speaker 3: Matt Prode, how you doing. I'm hanging in there a
Speaker 3: little under the weather, but hanging in there. Traveling like
Speaker 3: you were this past week will always get you sick.
Speaker 3: I got sick after last week's travel kind of sucked.
Speaker 3: I still quite haven't shaken it because I've been out
Speaker 3: in the woods like two or three days this week
Speaker 3: because stuff is happening and the weather's uncooperative, and so
Speaker 3: I've been very, very wet, and even though I feel better,
Speaker 3: I just can't quite shake the end of my sickness
Speaker 3: because I keep going out in the rain to do things.
Speaker 1: I ran out a high fever yesterday, but yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's something I picked up with the one of
Speaker 1: the various airports that I rolled through on the way
Speaker 1: back home. So just trying to fight through it and
Speaker 1: get back to a normality.
Speaker 2: Whenever I start feeling sick, I would take two whole
Speaker 2: heads of garlic, like you know, big heads of garlic,
Speaker 2: and cut all the clothes up, mince them all up
Speaker 2: and cook some pasta with some butter, and then just
Speaker 2: dump in like two hoole clothes at garlic and just
Speaker 2: it'd be like do you do a knock out? Everything?
Speaker 2: Like whatever I had would be gone, like within twelve hours.
Speaker 3: I definitely prescribed to the raw garlic diet when I
Speaker 3: am sick at one hundred.
Speaker 2: Percent, you gotta do a ton of it. Though.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I usually do like three to five clothes raw.
Speaker 3: I don't cook it. I do it just straight and
Speaker 3: I just like braw dog it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I put it on raw, I spoil the news,
Speaker 2: put butter on them. Then I throw the garlic on. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Garlic's one of the best things for you when you're sick,
Speaker 3: when you if you can eat the clove isn't exactly
Speaker 3: the easiest thing, especially if you're new at it.
Speaker 2: Well, you get it's bad. It's bad because that's what
Speaker 2: I found out because I was eating them hole and
Speaker 2: then I found out how bad that was. It eats
Speaker 2: holes in your stomach. You gotta you gotta slice it
Speaker 2: up good, mince it up.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think as long as what works for
Speaker 3: me is if I eat crackers or something with it,
Speaker 3: crackers or bread or something. I particularly like saltines with
Speaker 3: it for some reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta slice it. You gotta make it really small.
Speaker 2: I think it absorbs way way better. And it doesn't
Speaker 2: like deposit and set on one spot and then you know,
Speaker 2: cause an ulcer.
Speaker 3: Well, isn't that what chewing does.
Speaker 2: Cliff, as you called chewing, I have referred a mastication masticating.
Speaker 2: It does not thoroughly pulpizers as much.
Speaker 3: Ignorant Hick, I love it well anyways. So yeah, we're
Speaker 3: all getting over some stuff. Bobo seems the only one
Speaker 3: with an iron constitution who's not sick at all right now.
Speaker 3: And I hope you get better soon, Matt. Tis the
Speaker 3: season when things start changing, you know. But I guess, uh,
Speaker 3: we had a Class B sighting this past week. I'm
Speaker 3: covering hours now in the museum. I guess I should back. Yeah,
Speaker 3: yeah you can do that. Yeah you can have a
Speaker 3: Class B siding. Indeed, no, no, you can have a
Speaker 3: class B siding.
Speaker 2: Oh or you're not positive?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, let's talk about that, because
Speaker 3: I heard class A and class B thrown around pretty
Speaker 3: willy nilly a lot of times people who don't seem
Speaker 3: to understand what those designations mean, you know, and in
Speaker 3: bigfoot land those are kind of important. They become part
Speaker 3: of the like the language, you know that the it's
Speaker 3: what we all use to throw around. And of course
Speaker 3: Matt Moneymaker for the BFROO, he made these terms up
Speaker 3: to kind of classify as his the sightings and reports
Speaker 3: that were coming in and generally speaking, uh, it has
Speaker 3: class A and class B that the real difference there,
Speaker 3: to put it very simply is how how much of
Speaker 3: a possibility of misinterpretation is there. I'm going to read
Speaker 3: directly from the BFURO website right now. Class A Class
Speaker 3: A reports involve clear sightings and circumstances where misinterpretation or
Speaker 3: misidentification of other animals can be ruled out with greater confidence.
Speaker 3: For example, there are several footprint cases that are well documented.
Speaker 3: These are considered way footprint cases that are very well documented.
Speaker 3: These are considered class A reports because misidentification of common
Speaker 3: animals can be confidently ruled out. Thus, the potential for
Speaker 3: misinterpretation is very low. Class B incidents where a possible
Speaker 3: sasquatch was observed at a great distance or in poor
Speaker 3: lighting conditions, or incidents in any other circumstance that did
Speaker 3: not afford a clear view of the subject are considered
Speaker 3: Class B. So basically, the difference between classifications relates directly
Speaker 3: to the potential for misinterpretation.
Speaker 2: I did not know that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, A lot of people don't know that,
Speaker 3: and you're obviously clearly a veteran bigfoot researcher.
Speaker 2: I think I'm almost positive those are updated. Those are updated.
Speaker 2: He updated the criteria definitions.
Speaker 3: He might have, because my understanding until I just read
Speaker 3: that a minute ago, is that all footprints are Class B.
Speaker 3: But you know, like I guess the grays Harbor one,
Speaker 3: you know, I guess that could be because that was
Speaker 3: so well documented by Dennis Herford and those guys. Maybe
Speaker 3: that would be a Class A. But still it could
Speaker 3: be a hoaxer, you know, I mean, I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't think it is, but it, you know, potentially could be.
Speaker 3: So maybe maybe the footprints do all belong in a
Speaker 3: Class B. I don't know what do you guys think.
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm telling that he updated those the terminology definitions.
Speaker 2: I like this doing better. I like this doing better
Speaker 2: because I've had audio where there's no way it could
Speaker 2: like like I said that my first setting fin days
Speaker 2: before I had that encounter, Like I never saw anything,
Speaker 2: but it was like way more freaked me out, was
Speaker 2: way more compelling and like like the most like in
Speaker 2: your face, like there's no other thing, like it can't
Speaker 2: be like you're chick in the eye. Or I think
Speaker 2: it was just too intense. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: Matt goes on here and it says credible reports where
Speaker 3: nothing was seen but distinct and characteristic sounds of sasquatches
Speaker 3: were heard are always considered Class B reports and never
Speaker 3: Class A, even in the most compelling sound only cases.
Speaker 3: This is because the lack of visual element raises a
Speaker 3: much greater potential for a misidentification of the sounds. But this,
Speaker 3: I love this next paragraph here that he writes class
Speaker 3: B reports are not considered less credible or less important
Speaker 3: than Class A reports. Both types are deemed credible enough
Speaker 3: by the bfro O to show in public. So that's
Speaker 3: really important here. But yeah, so I received a class
Speaker 3: b observation of a sasquatch on Saturday, because, like I mentioned,
Speaker 3: I'm covering hours on Saturday pretty much every Saturday. Anybody
Speaker 3: wants to come in and say hi, I will be
Speaker 3: at the NABC And this will be throughout pretty much
Speaker 3: the entire winter until things start picking up again. We
Speaker 3: kind of shift the winter hours as many many tourism
Speaker 3: based into industries do, you know, or establishments do. But anyway,
Speaker 3: this guy comes in and I kind of know the guy.
Speaker 3: I mean I didn't. I didn't not well enough to
Speaker 3: recognize him. But when he told me so, oh, I
Speaker 3: emailed you about those prints, and blah blah blah. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: He's actually emailed me several times before with really nice
Speaker 3: looking footprints that he is found in various places in
Speaker 3: Mountain Hood National Forest. He's a hunter, he's a mushroom forager,
Speaker 3: he's just an outdoors guy in general. I trust what
Speaker 3: he says, because on at least two or maybe three
Speaker 3: occasions so far, he has sent me some really good,
Speaker 3: good looking footprints in the ground that I wasn't able
Speaker 3: to get out to unfortunately, because one of them was
Speaker 3: in one of my look one of the locations I
Speaker 3: like to frequent up there kind of by Timothy Lake,
Speaker 3: on the north side of Timothy Lake there, and then
Speaker 3: the others. The other that that happened a couple of
Speaker 3: years before he told me about it. And then last November,
Speaker 3: I think it was the last November, he sent me
Speaker 3: a footprint photograph for south of Timothy Lake that looks
Speaker 3: really good. And of course that night it snowed pretty heavily,
Speaker 3: so I couldn't get out there. They couldn't get to
Speaker 3: the location. But anyway, I trust this guy because he's
Speaker 3: proven himself to be a reliable observer. He's got a
Speaker 3: good eye for footprints, clearly, because if I can see
Speaker 3: them in a picture, they've got to be really good
Speaker 3: in the ground because pictures never never really turn out
Speaker 3: the way that you're looking at something in the ground, does,
Speaker 3: you know, It's just entirely different. But anyway, he was
Speaker 3: out on so I took the report on Saturday, but
Speaker 3: he was out on Friday foraging for mushrooms, because mushrooms
Speaker 3: are just popping everywhere right now. It's an amazing season
Speaker 3: for mushrooms right now, and depending on what altitude you're
Speaker 3: going to, I've been seeing them all over too, Chantrell's
Speaker 3: and lobster, mushrooms and blats and the whole nine. They're
Speaker 3: all kicking right now pretty hard. So he was out
Speaker 3: the day before at a location that's not too far
Speaker 3: from one of my spots. It's close enough. It's probably
Speaker 3: about through two or three miles as the crowfly from
Speaker 3: one of my really good spots that I'd like to
Speaker 3: go to.
Speaker 2: Hold on, I'm Monny Thinker's calling in right now to
Speaker 2: clarify what Hey, Matt, Yeah, we're recording. Can I put
Speaker 2: you on the air real quick?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, we did you change the definitions for the BFR
Speaker 2: classification like A, B and C. It used to be
Speaker 2: all settings had to be I mean could like the
Speaker 2: whole tracks trash could be A, and settings could be B.
Speaker 2: That whole deal a long time ago.
Speaker 4: We were fight tuning it. But the classifications have been
Speaker 4: for a long time. That class A were visual signings
Speaker 4: where it was a visual that was clear enough so
Speaker 4: that it either had to be a bigfoot or somebody
Speaker 4: in a bigfoot costume. And then there could be kind
Speaker 4: of week signings like out of the corner of your
Speaker 4: eye for a split second, you're not sure Those would
Speaker 4: be class B siding. So Class A had to mean
Speaker 4: something where they really they're either lying or they saw
Speaker 4: a bigfoot or somebody a big foot costume. And then
Speaker 4: Class C is like secondhand reports, so it's not directly
Speaker 4: for so if you talk to a class C person,
Speaker 4: you might actually get to the actual witness if you
Speaker 4: were to pursue that. But we don't like posting like
Speaker 4: secondhand stories because they're the two reliable we wanted in
Speaker 4: the in the in the words of a of a witness.
Speaker 4: Class B is also sounds and track finds, and I
Speaker 4: think there's been occasions where I think there's only been
Speaker 4: a couple of what we had called Class A track finds.
Speaker 4: Whether it was the tracks were so clear and so
Speaker 4: under you know, photographed, well I just couldn't be anything else, uh,
Speaker 4: and that we called that, But that I can't even
Speaker 4: remember the last time we had a track find as
Speaker 4: a Class A because it's just it's usually not that
Speaker 4: that convincing where you could show photos and say like
Speaker 4: like really good tracks in deep snow or deep tracks
Speaker 4: I shouldn't say not necessarily deep snow, but deep tracks
Speaker 4: in snow, showing that it was heavy in a big
Speaker 4: long stride and it would have been like basically impossible
Speaker 4: to fake.
Speaker 2: It, Okay, because we didn't know that there was Class
Speaker 2: A footprint fives I guess Hereford that would be one,
Speaker 2: or like the PG films, there's footage of them and
Speaker 2: there's casts, right right.
Speaker 4: So something that kind of there's some elements to that
Speaker 4: corroborates the tracks so much that you had to put
Speaker 4: it in the category of certitude of a visual siding.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, we were all wrong. We were all like,
Speaker 2: we just saw someone on Class A track. We were like, no,
Speaker 2: there's no cross, Like we thought you had redone the
Speaker 2: definitions or something.
Speaker 4: Well, we tweaked it in a couple of cases, because
Speaker 4: it's all the classification system is really just about reliability
Speaker 4: in that like, so the further you get away from
Speaker 4: a the more you're talking in the potential for misinterpretation.
Speaker 4: So I've a lot of times put like if there's
Speaker 4: a whole lot of sounds and rock throwing and stuff,
Speaker 4: I would call it a B plus, you know. So
Speaker 4: it's that sliding scale is all about reliability, and some
Speaker 4: track finds are can be as just as reliable as
Speaker 4: a visual and but again I can't you remember the
Speaker 4: last time we did that. There's very few cases. I
Speaker 4: think I've only done it for two cases where it
Speaker 4: was where I called it. And it wouldn't even be
Speaker 4: the Patterson because we don't have the written submission from
Speaker 4: you know, from Bob Gimbling. Yeah, it's not even in
Speaker 4: the database the Patterson incident.
Speaker 2: Uh So the most famous setting out of VFL, I mean,
Speaker 2: the most the most famous setting ever doesn't qualify from
Speaker 2: VFR because there's no first time account from Bob exactly.
Speaker 4: He hasn't somebody, he hasn't put anything writing and rimats
Speaker 4: he could, but if.
Speaker 2: He wants to be taken seriously, he better.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was there was no way to submit something
Speaker 4: like that back when when it happened, and I wouldn't
Speaker 4: expend it. But I think people are aware of that
Speaker 4: if it isn't on our web.
Speaker 2: Yeah, any questions from matater Cliff now, just thank him
Speaker 2: for coming on. Okay, Yeah, thanks Matt. We appreciate that.
Speaker 2: We were just having a debate about it and we
Speaker 2: said let's see if that's are available and clear this up.
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, anytime you guys needed a street you.
Speaker 2: On, all right, we need plenty of straighten out, So
Speaker 2: let me call on you soon.
Speaker 3: Okay, bye, Yes, there you go, straight from the man's mouth.
Speaker 2: Classic. That was so awesome.
Speaker 3: It's a he's a pleasure to have him drop by. Yeah, well,
Speaker 3: I would think that for our listeners at least. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know for me personally, but I'm not really the
Speaker 3: guy to take the temperature of the audience in any
Speaker 3: sort of way. But I think for our listeners it's
Speaker 3: got to be kind of fun to have people pop
Speaker 3: on every once in a while that are unexpected, you know,
Speaker 3: whether it's money Maker or maybe Melissa or somebody like that.
Speaker 3: You know, just somebody who happens to be in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: We just grab some Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot
Speaker 3: and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back
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Speaker 1: where was I forgot?
Speaker 3: I wasn't listening?
Speaker 2: Oh should I cut you off? Or Matt caught you off?
Speaker 2: What was my fault?
Speaker 1: You were still starting to get into like your work
Speaker 1: on Saturdays. And there was a guy who came in
Speaker 1: that you know fairly, Well, yeah.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. So this guy comes in and
Speaker 3: he sent me footprint photographs before that I think are legitimate.
Speaker 3: And he's out in the woods a lot. So I
Speaker 3: put weight in what this guy's saying for sure. And
Speaker 3: so I was talking to him and he said that
Speaker 3: just the day before, on Friday, October tenth, he was
Speaker 3: out in the woods in an area about two miles
Speaker 3: from one of my locations, three miles from one of
Speaker 3: my locations out there, way out there, this is way
Speaker 3: up on top. I'm trying to hit the higher elevations
Speaker 3: right now before they get shut down by snow, because
Speaker 3: I bet you we probably have about two or three
Speaker 3: weeks left of getting those higher elevation spots before. I
Speaker 3: won't see him again until the snow melts in June
Speaker 3: or July. But anyway, he was out foraging for mushrooms
Speaker 3: at a location out there that I'm very familiar with.
Speaker 3: I've been to the spot several times, even though it's
Speaker 3: not exactly at my precise location. And he was poking
Speaker 3: around a few hundred yards from his car, which he
Speaker 3: left on the road, and he saw a big chantrell
Speaker 3: big delicious orange yellowy mushroom that grows here in the fall.
Speaker 3: He saw a big chantraill that was gorgeous in a
Speaker 3: bush or a brush of something like that, you know,
Speaker 3: So he kind of squatted over. It wasn't on all fours,
Speaker 3: but he kind of like hunched down low and started
Speaker 3: pushing into the middle of the bush in order to
Speaker 3: get the chantrelle. And as he did so, a short
Speaker 3: distance away I can't remember if he said thirty yards,
Speaker 3: maybe thirty forty yards somewhere, that's the feel I got.
Speaker 3: At least just a short distance away, he hears a
Speaker 3: sound that he interpreted as something standing up from either
Speaker 3: a sitting or lying or squatting position, you know. And
Speaker 3: of course that's his interpretation, not quite sure if that,
Speaker 3: but he said it sounded like some thing stood up
Speaker 3: in the brush. Ben it sounded kind of big, you know.
Speaker 3: So he stopped for a minute and then and he
Speaker 3: looked over there. Then I guess he said he could
Speaker 3: hear the thing moving, although it was very very quiet,
Speaker 3: but he said he could hear the thing moving kind
Speaker 3: of like circling around him and kind of probably just
Speaker 3: positioning himself to move away, you know. And he's at
Speaker 3: this point he's thinking bear. He's like, oh, well, shoot,
Speaker 3: I just served this big bear or whatever. And then
Speaker 3: I guess the thing grabs some tree and just shook
Speaker 3: the crap out of a tree, just just like violently
Speaker 3: shook this thing, and and then that was this guy's
Speaker 3: cue to go. He basically said that. He's like, well,
Speaker 3: it was pretty clear that I was wanted there, and
Speaker 3: I took that. I took that invitation to leave and
Speaker 3: did so. But in the meantime, as the thing was
Speaker 3: moving through the brush, he kept getting glimpses of black fur.
Speaker 3: At some point and I asked him and say, well,
Speaker 3: I mean, could that have been a bear, because you know,
Speaker 3: bear's poke at trees and rub their back on them,
Speaker 3: and you know, just do that kind of thing sometimes,
Speaker 3: you know, it's not out of the question that it
Speaker 3: could be a bear. And he goes, now, I don't
Speaker 3: think so, man. It was just too big. I mean,
Speaker 3: the thing was as big as Murphy was. And Murphy
Speaker 3: is our bigfoot statue in the back of the NABC there,
Speaker 3: and Murphy stands seven and a half feet tall. So
Speaker 3: he said that I saw a fur that was at
Speaker 3: least as high as your head and probably higher. That's
Speaker 3: the level of the fur that I saw above the ground.
Speaker 3: So he probably saw a sasquatch, is what I'm thinking. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean it sounds everything you need is
Speaker 3: there right, quietly moving through the woods, tree shaken, tall,
Speaker 3: black fur covered figure in the woods. And the area
Speaker 3: is really good. The area is really there's never been
Speaker 3: sighting reports out of this specific area, but there's been
Speaker 3: stuff not that far away, you know, within five miles,
Speaker 3: as I said, And so yeah, I didn't have any
Speaker 3: reason to doubt the guy at all, especially since I've
Speaker 3: already kind of been interacting with him over the last
Speaker 3: couple of years, and I've already deemed him as a
Speaker 3: competent observer, so I got the directions best I could.
Speaker 3: I tried to get the GPS coordinates, but he had
Speaker 3: his location services turned off on the phone when he
Speaker 3: took the photographs that he shared with me, so I
Speaker 3: wasn't able to get the exact location. But I mean
Speaker 3: he gave pretty good directions. He said, go to the
Speaker 3: end of the road. There's a there's you know, pull
Speaker 3: off on the side of the road right before the end,
Speaker 3: there's an obvious parking spot, which there was. Head down
Speaker 3: downhill towards the creek. I'm about one hundred yards or so,
Speaker 3: and he says, you should see a big root ward
Speaker 3: turned over with a bunch of big mushrooms. And I'll
Speaker 3: tell you that, I'm pretty sure those are king bullets
Speaker 3: or bellets. I guess that's how you pronounce it. These
Speaker 3: giant mushrooms that grew up here, and they're really big.
Speaker 3: They've got away like the big ones, probably five to
Speaker 3: eight pounds because they're all just chalk full of water
Speaker 3: and stuff. They're really large mushrooms. You can look them up.
Speaker 3: They were everywhere. I never found, in my opinion, I'm
Speaker 3: not sure I found the specific root ward he was
Speaker 3: talking about because he said there's a root wod with
Speaker 3: large mushrooms on it. But there were so many blown
Speaker 3: over trees in this area that you know it had
Speaker 3: to be in there somewhere, because about one hundred or
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty yards down from the road there were
Speaker 3: all these blown down trees, and those big mushrooms were
Speaker 3: pretty common in the area, so it could have been
Speaker 3: any one of those things. He says, at that point,
Speaker 3: you head off on the thirty forty yards at a
Speaker 3: forty five degree angle to the left, and that's where
Speaker 3: he was standing, and he did say that if you
Speaker 3: go a little further to the left, you'll run into
Speaker 3: an elk wallow, which I did. In fact, I ran
Speaker 3: into several elk wallows out there. There's a little a
Speaker 3: seat that comes out of the ground in that area,
Speaker 3: and right past that is a big swamp which I
Speaker 3: also ran into. So I know I'm in the approximate area.
Speaker 3: And Keith and I did a lot of walking around.
Speaker 3: We actually filmed some stuff. It's not really enough to
Speaker 3: make a video for the members for the NABC or
Speaker 3: anything like that, but we did document it on video
Speaker 3: as best as we can. We found a couple like
Speaker 3: maybe footprints, but the tracking was in you know, we
Speaker 3: found elk, we found deer, there was there was bear
Speaker 3: sign mostly in the law of very very large turds.
Speaker 3: But found a couple maybe tracks that like maybe, but
Speaker 3: like really not even enough to make me think probably
Speaker 3: just like, well, maybe that could be one. You know,
Speaker 3: there's two or three of them in a row here.
Speaker 3: Maybe that is one, don't know. And we just kind
Speaker 3: of gave it about an hour and a half two
Speaker 3: hours of walking around in the brush and it was
Speaker 3: raining and it was cold. It was like thirty eight
Speaker 3: degrees and it was raining pretty hard, and yeah, and
Speaker 3: then of course I'm walking through like, you know, six
Speaker 3: foot tall BlackBerry brush or not BlackBerry blueberries. Thank god,
Speaker 3: I want to walk through blackberries stuff with blueberries. So
Speaker 3: I'm just drenched, just completely drenched and trying to get
Speaker 3: over my illness and all this other stuff. And I
Speaker 3: keep doing this to myself. But we didn't find anything
Speaker 3: that we could really hang our hats on. But what
Speaker 3: I think is interesting is that on the drive out,
Speaker 3: you know, I've been talking about these tree breaks that
Speaker 3: we've been finding in a couple of my areas with
Speaker 3: these odd branches bent back upon themselves that I've nicknamed
Speaker 3: do dads and whatever else. And so I'm trying to
Speaker 3: pay attention to other locations that have tree breaks.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: On the way out there, there were plenty of broken trees,
Speaker 3: you know, here and there. But this is a high
Speaker 3: elevation area, and I would expect snow and weather and
Speaker 3: stuff to do damage up there. But I would stop
Speaker 3: and look at all the trees that I would see
Speaker 3: on the side of the road that might be broken
Speaker 3: in case there was a dudad on there or some
Speaker 3: other sign that a sasquatch may or may not be
Speaker 3: responsible hair or something, you know. But one of the
Speaker 3: trees that caught my eye, I think it was a cottonwood.
Speaker 3: I'm not really good with my trees, but I'm pretty
Speaker 3: sure it was a cottonwood. It was still green, you know,
Speaker 3: which isn't that telling, but it was fairly fresh, I guess,
Speaker 3: you know, like last couple of months it was broken.
Speaker 3: There was this tree that was broken about seven or
Speaker 3: eight feet off the ground. I said, we'll stop and
Speaker 3: look at that one, because it was broken in the
Speaker 3: midst of a bunch of other trees that were not broken,
Speaker 3: and in an odd direction that caught my eye. So
Speaker 3: when we got out and looked there, there seemed to
Speaker 3: be a footprint at the base of it, a big
Speaker 3: flattened area where something had pushed something. The ground had
Speaker 3: been pushed down. Basically all the all the needles and
Speaker 3: stuff were pushed into the dirt at that point, and
Speaker 3: it had what I interpret as a toe, one toe
Speaker 3: impressed into the ground. I think it was fairly old though,
Speaker 3: because the toe that was impressed, if I'm right and
Speaker 3: it was a toe, it was kind of sheltered because
Speaker 3: it was pushed forward into the hill, so it had
Speaker 3: like a cave like structure, so which is why it
Speaker 3: didn't get washed out like the other ones may have
Speaker 3: been washed out because I think it was at least
Speaker 3: a few weeks old, at least a few weeks old,
Speaker 3: maybe older, but anyway, that was of interest. So that
Speaker 3: all happened on Saturday, this past Saturday, So it was
Speaker 3: encouraging that we got another fresh report because there hasn't
Speaker 3: been a There have not been a lot of fresh
Speaker 3: reports in the last few months. In particular, We're expecting
Speaker 3: a few more over the over the summertime because we
Speaker 3: usually had some pretty good ones coming in, but it's
Speaker 3: been kind of slow.
Speaker 1: So do you think people are more reticent to tell
Speaker 1: other employees versus you, like when you're there a lot
Speaker 1: and people are like, oh hey, it's Cliff, Hey, let
Speaker 1: me tell you what happened to me, versus.
Speaker 2: Like you'd mentioned.
Speaker 1: There was one the other day, was it Dave? Where
Speaker 1: a guy come in and he asked Dave, like you
Speaker 1: ever seen one of these things? And Dave was like, no,
Speaker 1: have you? And the guy was like, actually yes, and
Speaker 1: it was like he might have come and gone without
Speaker 1: ever telling that story. So do you think that's part
Speaker 1: of it, Like when you're there less, maybe less stories
Speaker 1: get recorded.
Speaker 3: I'm confident that's true, Yeah, because sometimes I'll come in
Speaker 3: the shop and somebody will have been shopping or I've
Speaker 3: already been in the back and they're getting ready to leave,
Speaker 3: and then they see me and we talked for a minute,
Speaker 3: then they tell me their story. Yeah, So I'm confident
Speaker 3: that happens. How much that happens, I don't know, but
Speaker 3: I know it does happen that, you know, when they
Speaker 3: probably come in they don't realize that, you know, I hire,
Speaker 3: you know, pretty good people who are rather knowledgeable about
Speaker 3: Bigfoot and to various extents, you know, but they're probably
Speaker 3: looking for me to tell because they kind of know me,
Speaker 3: which is an odd thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Another customer had the insight to point out to me
Speaker 3: the other day that it's like, it must be very
Speaker 3: odd for people to come in the shop and know
Speaker 3: so much about me, you know, and I'm used to it,
Speaker 3: so I don't even think about it anymore. But it's
Speaker 3: like somebody says, yeah, like like I'll come in here
Speaker 3: today and I know that. You know, Melissa was in
Speaker 3: Pittsburgh and a couple of weeks ago or whatever in August,
Speaker 3: and he started telling me all these things about my life,
Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, it is weird that you know
Speaker 3: all these things. But again, I talk about it on
Speaker 3: the podcast, So of course people know things about my life,
Speaker 3: because if I can't talk about my life on the podcast,
Speaker 3: I've had nothing else to share.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a I think a big part of podcast
Speaker 1: is they do create sort of like parasocial relationships. You know,
Speaker 1: like there's people I've been listening to for years and
Speaker 1: so it's like, yeah, I feel like I kind of
Speaker 1: know that person because you've heard them over so many
Speaker 1: hours and different iterations and all that, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: like if I had something to share with him, I
Speaker 1: would probably do it, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: I do think that to your point, when people come in,
Speaker 1: if you're there, if they've had an encounter and they
Speaker 1: feel reticent about it, they're more likely to tell you.
Speaker 1: And if they're at all reticent, they're not going to
Speaker 1: tell a total stranger, because at least they have a
Speaker 1: parasocial relationship with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, So it's going to be good that I'm
Speaker 3: going to be back in the shop, but on a
Speaker 3: more regular basis, so you know, if somebody's looking for me,
Speaker 3: they can find me. Then you know, I hope to
Speaker 3: record some more reports from the area, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: everybody knows that reports aren't exactly my thing, but I
Speaker 3: sure like to know where and when they happened, because
Speaker 3: that points me in the right direction. That's what any
Speaker 3: good sighting report that the main purpose isn't just the story,
Speaker 3: it's actually to point you in the right direction of
Speaker 3: where you should be looking. So and of course this
Speaker 3: one this past weekend just kind of reaffirmed that that
Speaker 3: area that I've already been working for a while is
Speaker 3: still active and still good.
Speaker 1: Do you still get a bunch of sending to you, Bobo,
Speaker 1: like through the uh, I think your Facebook or social
Speaker 1: media things.
Speaker 2: Dude, I haven't looked at those things in months.
Speaker 1: We get very few like in the podcast, but every
Speaker 1: once in a while, and we get a lot from
Speaker 1: northern California. So I always ford you like I ford
Speaker 1: you anytime someone fills out a report for him, if
Speaker 1: ford it to you. But it is funny to see, Yeah,
Speaker 1: how many come from northern California. So I always feel like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're specifically probably trying to get in touch with Bobo.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm gonna do a couple of interviews this
Speaker 2: week actually, some people just for like some bonus stuff
Speaker 2: for the Patreon.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: Cliffs, I know you got a Jeff Papers and you
Speaker 2: know his collection of Bigfoot stuff that you've been going
Speaker 2: through it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, found some good stuff in there too. I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously it's there's gonna be a tremendous amount of good
Speaker 3: stuff in there. But yeah, back up a little bit,
Speaker 3: because we haven't really talked about this on the air,
Speaker 3: and doctor Meltrim has been gone for a while now,
Speaker 3: you know, a month or so. Yeah, so I've been
Speaker 3: I've been humbled, I think is a good way to
Speaker 3: say it. I've been humbled with the responsibility of doctor
Speaker 3: Meltrim's collection. When he he died, you know, he left,
Speaker 3: he wanted me to have his stuff, basically his big
Speaker 3: foot stuff, which is obviously an extraordinary responsibility. And I
Speaker 3: can't tell you how humbling it is. And if I
Speaker 3: didn't have an inferiority complex beforehand, I certainly do now
Speaker 3: because I've got this tremendous wealth of knowledge from you know,
Speaker 3: my mentor, and he's he's passed me the baton to
Speaker 3: do something appropriate I think with it. And the first step,
Speaker 3: I mean beyond just like the acquisition and getting it
Speaker 3: here and making sure that you know, everything was taken
Speaker 3: care of that the first step was integrating the footprint casts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, integrating the footprint cast was the first step, which
Speaker 3: was a lot harder than I thought it would be.
Speaker 3: I mean, you, guys, Mad and Bobo, you've seen how
Speaker 3: I organize my collection, basically I have, but most people
Speaker 3: have not. I have these baker's racks, you know, like
Speaker 3: these aluminum baker's racks, like those twenty shelves high. You
Speaker 3: see them in bakeries and all that sort of stuff
Speaker 3: for you know, cooling off muffins or whatever. They work
Speaker 3: really well for footprints, apparently, because that's why I've been
Speaker 3: storing these things for years. That's the way we store
Speaker 3: them at the North American Big Foot Center. And they
Speaker 3: are these racks. They don't take a big floor space
Speaker 3: or like maybe eighteen by twenty four inches or something,
Speaker 3: maybe you know a little bit bigger, but approximately that.
Speaker 3: And they have shelves like these trays that kind of
Speaker 3: slide into the shelves there, and each tray can hold
Speaker 3: between one and three or four casts, depending on the
Speaker 3: size of the cast. And so I've been and I
Speaker 3: store them, you know, alphabetic, alphabetically and chronologically within the alphabet, right.
Speaker 3: So that's how I organized my footprint cast. And when
Speaker 3: I got doctor Meldrum's collection, which includes the Blue Mountain stuff,
Speaker 3: the first thing I did is I had to first
Speaker 3: I had to move all those shelves from my garage
Speaker 3: down to the outbuilding, which was a scary thing to
Speaker 3: do anyway, because I tried a couple methods, Like they
Speaker 3: have wheels on the bottom, so I tried rolling one down,
Speaker 3: but I've got that big hill on my driveway right,
Speaker 3: so that was scary. And then when I got down
Speaker 3: to the gravel road, turns out those wheels suck on
Speaker 3: gravel roads, so that didn't work well. So I did that.
Speaker 3: I did a test run with kind of the rack
Speaker 3: that contained the hoaxes and some other stuff, you know,
Speaker 3: so if something broke, it wouldn't be a big deal.
Speaker 2: What people realized is your driveways like forty five degrees slow.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say it's quite that, but yeah, it is steep.
Speaker 3: It might as well be forty five. I mean it
Speaker 3: has claimed one of Melissa's cars in the snow if
Speaker 3: you remember that, Yeah, with a car just slid backwards
Speaker 3: on the ice down the hill and went over the
Speaker 3: road and over the grass and down the embankment and
Speaker 3: almost hit the outbuilding. It was crazy. So, yes, it's
Speaker 3: pretty steep. It's pretty steep. It's at least thirty degrees.
Speaker 3: I'll say that it's somewhere between thirty and forty five degrees,
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's pretty gnarly. But anyway, so what I
Speaker 3: eventually had to do is I brought the tractor up,
Speaker 3: and then I put the racks on the tractor, on
Speaker 3: the on the front loader or the front end loader
Speaker 3: or the tractor, and I use ratchet straps and all
Speaker 3: these other things to like really really tighten it down,
Speaker 3: and then I slowly backed up. And that seemed to
Speaker 3: be the most effective wave because I can bring down
Speaker 3: an entire rack, and of course I use ratchet straps
Speaker 3: to make sure that the trays themselves wouldn't slide out.
Speaker 3: And I went so slowly and so carefully, it took
Speaker 3: me probably cumulatively for the seventy nine ten, like maybe
Speaker 3: twelve racks I had. I bet it took me three
Speaker 3: hours to move all three of those rats, or all
Speaker 3: twelve of those racks.
Speaker 2: That's pretty quick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of didn't seem quick, but yeah, but I
Speaker 3: rolled those into the new room, which you saw Bobo
Speaker 3: just recently.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so thank you for moving your trailer. I have
Speaker 3: a new room now, So I put the I put
Speaker 3: my racks all around the outside wall in some sort
Speaker 3: of order, and then I brought doctor Meldrim's casts in
Speaker 3: and I kind of stacked them up by location of
Speaker 3: where they needed to go. And I've had a lot
Speaker 3: of difficult choices to make because at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, you know, it's like, say, for example, I
Speaker 3: have an original cast from doctor Meldrim, Like I'll just
Speaker 3: like a nineteen eighty seven cast from the Blue Mountains
Speaker 3: from the Freeman collection or something like that, So I
Speaker 3: put that in front of the appropriate rack, and then
Speaker 3: of course I already have a copy of that cast.
Speaker 3: You know, I had a there were many mini casts
Speaker 3: in doctor Meldrim's collection that I already had copies of,
Speaker 3: you know, because he was one of my main sources
Speaker 3: of getting foot pretty casts.
Speaker 2: And I got the one generation closer to the source
Speaker 2: about the original exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: So in these cases is like I had the original cast.
Speaker 3: Many times doctor Meldrm might have another copy of that
Speaker 3: particular cast line around, I have my copy that I
Speaker 3: obtained sometimes years and years ago, and occasionally I would
Speaker 3: have a copy of that same cast from doctor Krantz
Speaker 3: as well. Oh cool, yeah, because remember doctor Meldrum inherited
Speaker 3: a significant portion of doctor Krantz's collection, So what do
Speaker 3: I do with all those? Right? So it was kind
Speaker 3: of a struggle in some cases, obviously the original is
Speaker 3: to be kept. I think doctor Krantz's copy is important
Speaker 3: enough to keep because that's a piece of history right there.
Speaker 3: And then the doctor Meldrim copies if he wrote on
Speaker 3: the back, he has a designation of how he labeled
Speaker 3: his casts that I still haven't quite figured out yet,
Speaker 3: Like they have like a D thirty seven or something
Speaker 3: on the back, and I don't I haven't found the
Speaker 3: key yet to that, so I'm not sure what I'm
Speaker 3: looking at as far. And I know what the cast is.
Speaker 3: I know where came from, because I'm well versed in
Speaker 3: the history of footprint casts, particularly the Blue Mountain stuff,
Speaker 3: but I don't know that particular designation. If it was,
Speaker 3: I could have told you, well that's a different thing.
Speaker 3: That's a different thing. But yeah, so I haven't found
Speaker 3: those yet, so I'm kind of working on it. So anyway,
Speaker 3: I've been faced with a lot of dilemmas. Which wants
Speaker 3: to keep, which wants to get rid of, you know,
Speaker 3: And some of these might be of interest maybe some
Speaker 3: NABC members, you know, because remind you, like I also
Speaker 3: inherited doctor Meltrim's molds for these same casts. So if
Speaker 3: doctor if Jeff had a copy of one of these casts. Well,
Speaker 3: I have the mold for it. I can just make
Speaker 3: another copy and it'll be the exact same as his
Speaker 3: version of it. So do I keep that one too?
Speaker 3: So I don't know. There's a lot of decisions to make.
Speaker 2: Weren't pretty bad? Weren't his molds pretty dried out in
Speaker 2: bad shape like a lot of them?
Speaker 3: Yes, and no, there's he has two different versions. He
Speaker 3: had two different styles of molds. Basically, he had a
Speaker 3: sylastic molds, which are a silicone sort of plastic mix
Speaker 3: that doctor Krantz initially started using. And those are fantastic.
Speaker 3: I've never worked at that material before, but those casts
Speaker 3: or those molds turn out really good copies of the footprints,
Speaker 3: and they're easy to work with and it's just a joy.
Speaker 3: But that stuff's really expensive. And if I remember, doctor
Speaker 3: Krantz somehow came across maybe two or one or two
Speaker 3: fifty five gallon drums of that material, so which is
Speaker 3: why he was using it. And Meldrum I think obtained
Speaker 3: those same drums that he had not finished yet and
Speaker 3: made some molds out of that. Those are great, but
Speaker 3: he also made latex molds kind of like the ones
Speaker 3: I use now, I use water based latex for copying
Speaker 3: prints with the latex molds. I suspect, and I don't
Speaker 3: know this. I don't know this for a fact. I'm
Speaker 3: probably one of our listeners does. But I suspect that
Speaker 3: the latex that doctor Krantz and maybe the ones that
Speaker 3: doctor Meldrum used were perhaps ammonia based latex, because I
Speaker 3: don't like the smell of ammonia, so I never used
Speaker 3: that stuff, but I think there's reasons that some people
Speaker 3: prefer that. And because all the latex molds that came
Speaker 3: with the collection were pretty dry. Many of them were
Speaker 3: brittle or cracked in a certain place, and they were
Speaker 3: just very very dry. So actually, three or four nights
Speaker 3: last week, you know, like after Melissa went to bed
Speaker 3: or whatever, she goes a bit earlier than I do,
Speaker 3: so nine or ten o'clock at night, I'm out there
Speaker 3: in the outbuilding reconstituting those latex molds. I looked up
Speaker 3: how to do that. You soak them in water, you
Speaker 3: spray them down with the solution and stuff, and I've
Speaker 3: actually reinvigorated all of doctor Meldrum's molds, those latex molds
Speaker 3: and many of those I believe came from Krantz. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure. Really interesting stuff though out there, really interesting casts.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of originals. I'll be just beyond
Speaker 3: the Blue Mountain stuff. There's a lot of original casts
Speaker 3: in there that are fascinating. Some stuff I have no
Speaker 3: idea where it came from. They're not labeled, so I've
Speaker 3: got some sleuthing to do. But also to get to
Speaker 3: our story point here, I also inherited doctor Meldrim's files,
Speaker 3: you know, which included the Vance Orchard files and doctor
Speaker 3: Krantz's files as well. Apparently I didn't know Vance Orchard
Speaker 3: stuff was in there, but it is. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: that's what it is. And then of course doctor Krantz's
Speaker 3: files super interesting, and then doctor Meldrim's files as well.
Speaker 3: So and I think I counted, was it eighteen of
Speaker 3: those big totes you know right now out of my
Speaker 3: garage full of papers and other things.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I went through two of those. That's why
Speaker 2: I got to go through two of them with books.
Speaker 2: That was Rugs never mind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was Mike Rugs stuff. Yeah, it's mostly papers
Speaker 3: and a lot of stuff printed from the Internet and
Speaker 3: correspondences and stuff. So it's going to take forever to
Speaker 3: get through this stuff. So my archivists, I know my
Speaker 3: archivists are listening, So you've got your work cut out
Speaker 3: for you. Wait till I get things organized here and
Speaker 3: I'll start bringing in for you guys at the shop.
Speaker 3: But anyway, there's a lot of treasures and a lot
Speaker 3: of really interesting historic pieces out there, and one of
Speaker 3: the ones I ran into recently, I'm kind of I'm
Speaker 3: starting to familiarize myself now that the cast room is
Speaker 3: close to being done. I started branching out because you
Speaker 3: got to dive into this pile of papers at some point,
Speaker 3: right and so I've started going through them and leafing
Speaker 3: through them and seeing what's in here, and just kind
Speaker 3: of getting a feel for what's in the boxes right
Speaker 3: before I start organizing them all. And one of the
Speaker 3: things that I ran across that I just found so interesting.
Speaker 3: I just shared this with the DABC members last week,
Speaker 3: so members, you've already seen this, but this is worthy
Speaker 3: of a discussion. I believe it was a letter from
Speaker 3: Bob Tipmos. Now, Bob Tipmos, everybody knows is a veteran
Speaker 3: Bigfoot researcher, he's been there from the beginning. He's the
Speaker 3: guy that instructed Jerry Crewe how to take footprint casts,
Speaker 3: which is what gave us the word bigfoot and also
Speaker 3: our first Bigfoot footprint cast. You know. So Bob Timmos
Speaker 3: was in it from the very very beginning. Doctor Krantz
Speaker 3: referred to as one of the most competent observers he knew.
Speaker 3: So good guy. But anyway, there's a letter to a
Speaker 3: It says, dear George, and we don't even know who
Speaker 3: George is at first, but I had later George Hast. Well,
Speaker 3: it turns out it is George Haass, but there were
Speaker 3: a couple other options. But I thought it was George Haass,
Speaker 3: but I confirmed it was George Haas because of some
Speaker 3: other historic notes from the Bayery Group collection. You know,
Speaker 3: there's some stuff that he wrote back in the day.
Speaker 2: Well, what other George's are there?
Speaker 3: Well, proud you came up with another George.
Speaker 1: It could have been Who was that George Agagino, Remember
Speaker 1: he was He was an academic that was pretty supportive
Speaker 1: of the subject. He wrote the ford for Ivan T.
Speaker 1: Sanderson's book, and he had some other supportive writings. So
Speaker 1: he was another George, that was a rend in that timeframe.
Speaker 2: Has I could think of?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was Haws and it turns out
Speaker 3: it is. I found verification in some other documents that
Speaker 3: in the mildrum stuff that that it was in fact
Speaker 3: George hass At this letter was going to and this
Speaker 3: letters dated September thirteenth, nineteen six. And you know, we
Speaker 3: can put this the picture of the letter up on
Speaker 3: the member section if you want, Matt Prutt, if you
Speaker 3: want to do that so they can actually see the
Speaker 3: paper itself. But yeah, it was written on September thirteenth,
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy. Pretty good ways back right.
Speaker 2: The only bone with that letters is not in his handwriting.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because it does have such beautiful handwriting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I do have a couple other historic letters actually in
Speaker 3: his handwriting, which are interesting, but not originals or photocopies
Speaker 3: of the originals. Okay, let's see should I read, Matt?
Speaker 3: You think I should read the whole thing or just
Speaker 3: the pertinent part.
Speaker 5: I think read the whole thing.
Speaker 2: The whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So the letter starts with Dear George, my
Speaker 3: apologies for being so long in answering your letter when
Speaker 3: it arrived. I was one hundred and fifty miles from here,
Speaker 3: out in the bush northeast of Hazleton, where John Green
Speaker 3: got word to me that he and I were to
Speaker 3: be in Salt Lake City the next evening to meet
Speaker 3: with the film company and help with the computer programming.
Speaker 3: What panic to get back here to get cleaned up, packed, etc. Etc.
Speaker 3: And make the early morning flight from the airport thirty
Speaker 3: miles from here. I read your letter and my other
Speaker 3: mail somewhere between here and Utah. Since returning, I've been
Speaker 3: out in the bush for the most part of the time.
Speaker 3: An answer to your question, to the best of my recollection,
Speaker 3: on a few occasions I have heard the rock pounding
Speaker 3: sound that you describe, but as best as I can recall,
Speaker 3: I arrived at no conclusion as to what was responsible
Speaker 3: for this noise, and was only puzzled about it. These
Speaker 3: cases could all well have taken place before I started
Speaker 3: to seriously investigate and to hunt Bigfoot, some twelve or
Speaker 3: thirteen years ago. I just can't remember. However, if this
Speaker 3: were the case, I would not have associated it with Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: Bill Hampton has a valid thought regarding bears snapping their jaws. However,
Speaker 3: I doubt that an experienced woodsman would ever confuse a
Speaker 3: bear popping his teeth with the rock pounding sound. By
Speaker 3: the way, especially in dealing with grizzlies, when they start
Speaker 3: popping their teeth at you, it's prudent to be prepared
Speaker 3: for a charge, for they do this both as a
Speaker 3: warning and challenge. Give old hamp my hello and good
Speaker 3: wishes next time you see him. Haven't seen him for
Speaker 3: fifteen years. In nineteen fifty eight or nineteen fifty nine,
Speaker 3: Art Long and myself were tracking bigfoot on Upper Bluff Creek.
Speaker 3: These tracks were fresh as you'll ever find. Shortly after
Speaker 3: they left the creek and started climbing the mountain, we
Speaker 3: were brought up short by what sounded like something pounding
Speaker 3: on a rather hollow tree or perhaps log with a
Speaker 3: very big club. These sounds were being made in what
Speaker 3: could have been taken to be a coated series. Eventually
Speaker 3: I found a large stick and a log and started
Speaker 3: pounding out a series of my own. Each time I
Speaker 3: stopped my series of pounding, it was repeated from above exactly,
Speaker 3: both in timing and the number of blows I had struck,
Speaker 3: only very much louder. This continued for some fifteen or
Speaker 3: twenty minutes, whereas this story or experience is much too
Speaker 3: long to recount here. At this time, I am just
Speaker 3: as convinced today as Art and I were that day.
Speaker 3: It happened that one of the Bigfoot creatures was doing
Speaker 3: the pounding some thirty or forty yards ahead of us
Speaker 3: in the dense timber and undergrowth. Art refused to move
Speaker 3: one step further in that direction and wanted only to
Speaker 3: return post hace. So my investigation of the area the
Speaker 3: sound had come from was done rather hurriedly, was incomplete,
Speaker 3: and did not prove anything one way or the other.
Speaker 3: Don't bother yourself, George, wondering if it could have been
Speaker 3: any of the usual animals or another human. It wasn't.
Speaker 3: We've already been through that. Hoping the above will be
Speaker 3: of some little help to you. I'll say bye for
Speaker 3: this time and be off to the bush near Hazelton again.
Speaker 3: All the best wishes, Bob, tipmos.
Speaker 2: Ah so.
Speaker 3: Very rad Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with
Speaker 3: Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages
Speaker 3: to mind now. A few months later, George Hass actually
Speaker 3: published this particular letter from Bob in his newsletter from
Speaker 3: the Bar Area Group newsletter Manimals Now isn't animals?
Speaker 5: Manimals was McLaren's thing, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was the Bigfoot bulletin, the Bigfoot bulletin.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So he actually published this letter a few weeks or
Speaker 3: a few months later, and it's quarterly newsletter. But but
Speaker 3: so that makes this possibly possibly the very very first
Speaker 3: written account of tree knocking.
Speaker 1: I wish we could see George's letter because he's saying,
Speaker 1: in answer to your question, to the best of my recollection,
Speaker 1: I have heard the rock pounding that you described. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he's responded, like George, it's.
Speaker 2: Like, hey, have you ever heard this?
Speaker 3: You know that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, so it
Speaker 3: makes me wonder. But who knows, Maybe that's in there too.
Speaker 3: There's files on George Haas. Who knows what's in there.
Speaker 3: You know, we will see, we will see. But yeah,
Speaker 3: very interesting stuff because this and that was in fifty
Speaker 3: eight or fifty nine. You know, that was like at
Speaker 3: the birth of Bigfoot essentially, and you know, as I'm
Speaker 3: kind of gathering things together and trying to gather information
Speaker 3: and maybe even trying to get a book outline together
Speaker 3: or something, like that. I've run across other things that
Speaker 3: were observed i'll say, discovered in nineteen fifty eight or
Speaker 3: fifty nine, including tree snaps and tree twists. Like some
Speaker 3: of these things that we kind of take for granted,
Speaker 3: they were there from the very very beginning, and tree
Speaker 3: knocking is apparently one of them. It's so interesting to
Speaker 3: me that doctor Meldrum, I think, finally came around to
Speaker 3: the tree knocking thing, but for many many years he
Speaker 3: was like, I don't know about that. Because even in June,
Speaker 3: when I got to spend so much time with him
Speaker 3: before he passed in June, he says, so, Cliff, you
Speaker 3: really think these things knock? They go absolute one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you never, like I remember like just
Speaker 2: doing like what do you like, Jiff? How can you
Speaker 2: not know that's what they do? Like? Do they definitely
Speaker 2: do it one hundred percent? Well?
Speaker 3: I think it was just very very skeptical and wanted
Speaker 3: as much input as possible, you know, which you can't
Speaker 3: blame any scientists or person. We should all be like
Speaker 3: that in a way.
Speaker 2: But I double guaranteed it. Cliff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well of course you did, and I'm sure that
Speaker 3: your your voice carried much more weight than most other people's.
Speaker 3: But yeah, really cool letter, really interesting correspondence, a window
Speaker 3: into the past, like I said, probably to at least
Speaker 3: to my knowledge at least. I mean, if there's another one,
Speaker 3: I'd love to hear about it from our listeners. Send
Speaker 3: it to you know, to be on podcast at gmail
Speaker 3: dot com. If there's an earlier reference to tree knocking
Speaker 3: in any sort of way, I would love to know
Speaker 3: about it, because that's, you know, November of fifty eight
Speaker 3: or fifty nine, that Bob Tipmos is down a Bluff
Speaker 3: Creek and tracking a Sasquatch and this is what he
Speaker 3: this is what he heard down there. And it's not
Speaker 3: only did he hear knocking, hear the pounding, but he
Speaker 3: would do it and it would copy him. That's super
Speaker 3: significant because that's the kind of thing that occasionally happens
Speaker 3: even still today. But right there in November of fifty
Speaker 3: eight or fifty nine, Bob Tipmos was pounding cadence and
Speaker 3: number of pine and like those things were being answered
Speaker 3: in kind to imitate his own pounding in the depths
Speaker 3: of Bluff Creek, and Bluff Creek's a wild place today.
Speaker 3: I can only imagine what it was like in fifty
Speaker 3: eight or fifty nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember, I had that happened to me a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago. Remember I told you about that
Speaker 2: where I was clapping my hands and it was daytime
Speaker 2: and it was clapping back in the Redwoods.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, it happened. I'm on camera doing it with
Speaker 3: something in Australia. Yeah, the kind of thing happens. Yeah,
Speaker 3: very interesting. And you know this may I mean, I
Speaker 3: think there's earlier I think there's earlier mentions of rock clacking.
Speaker 3: I could be wrong, but I think the rock clacking
Speaker 3: thing dates back earlier. Maybe not in association with Bigfoot,
Speaker 3: but in some of those historic newspaper reports. I have
Speaker 3: it in my head that there's an earlier reference to that,
Speaker 3: and I don't know what it is. But maybe again,
Speaker 3: maybe one of our listeners does and they can send
Speaker 3: it her away. But I don't think this is the
Speaker 3: first time that rock clacking was associated with it. But
Speaker 3: to my knowledge, tree knocking is so. But who's art long?
Speaker 5: That is a good question because that didn't sound familiar
Speaker 5: to me.
Speaker 2: Oh, wasn't he a logger? Was he a local lagger?
Speaker 4: Up? There?
Speaker 2: No idea I think that might. I think he might
Speaker 2: have been a local logger up there.
Speaker 3: Let's see if I can come up with that answer
Speaker 3: real fast.
Speaker 1: I googled art long Bigfoot, but I don't see anything, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I was looking up. I just look that kiddy
Speaker 2: matt where he lived up there in BC. He was
Speaker 2: he was right there, I mean he could he was.
Speaker 2: I mean that that place is awesome. It's way north
Speaker 2: of Bella, coolas. I mean, it's up there in northern
Speaker 2: BC and like just a killer spot. I went at
Speaker 2: the head of an inlet.
Speaker 3: That's where I think it was a taxi driver or something.
Speaker 3: Wasn't he up There'd be great if somebody got the
Speaker 3: resources together to write a biography of Bob Timmis, because
Speaker 3: so little is known about him, because he didn't bother
Speaker 3: writing anything now or sharing. He wasn't out there for attention.
Speaker 3: He was just doing it right. Yeah, there might be
Speaker 3: photographs of this other footprinting casts out there, and I
Speaker 3: have photographs with all the collection that's in the Willow
Speaker 3: Creek Museum. But oh, speaking of the Willow Creek Museum,
Speaker 3: do you guys see the new documentary. I watched it myself,
Speaker 3: and I hardly ever watch any bigfoot stuff.
Speaker 2: I just watched it last night.
Speaker 3: It's called Willow Creek. It's on YouTube. Turned out it
Speaker 3: was a student project, but they released it on YouTube
Speaker 3: and apparently it's making the rounds. And our good friend
Speaker 3: Eric Nelson, who's one of the guys the board of
Speaker 3: directors volunteers at the Willow Creek Museum, he's the central
Speaker 3: figure in it. Todd Samples, Yeah, Todd Samples is in there.
Speaker 3: When camping with him this past June out of the Bluff Creek.
Speaker 3: He was a really good guy, a good tracker, super
Speaker 3: fun guy.
Speaker 2: The only problem, my problem with it, it was just
Speaker 2: kind of as another just talking heads rehashing the same stuff.
Speaker 2: It was like the production on it was like a
Speaker 2: plus plus like better than anything you see on TV. Really,
Speaker 2: like you know, the cinematography and all that. But I
Speaker 2: like the but in the end it was I was
Speaker 2: like kind of waiting for him to go out and
Speaker 2: do stuff and show more stuff from the field, and
Speaker 2: it was just kind of just interview.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it was it was a student project
Speaker 3: after all, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean for for like some of this
Speaker 2: is any thing about bigfoot introduction, it was it was
Speaker 2: it was good?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I liked it. I liked it, and of course,
Speaker 3: anything we can do to help the Willow Creek Museum
Speaker 3: get on everybody's map. I think it is better for
Speaker 3: the subject and better for the Willow Creek area, of course,
Speaker 3: So I was thrilled that somebody did that.
Speaker 1: Since you're going through that stuff, is there anything else
Speaker 1: you've you've stumbled across yet that you like a holy
Speaker 1: crap moment?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, there's been even packing it up. There
Speaker 3: were a lot of holy crap moments.
Speaker 2: You should have. You should have a weekly update clip
Speaker 2: on your holy craps.
Speaker 3: It'd be like another Bobo story time but different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, way better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just saying you have a lot of crap
Speaker 3: in your in your a lot of fecal stories, shall
Speaker 3: we say? Well, you know, I've been trying to I'm
Speaker 3: going to start doing some more updating the well not updated.
Speaker 3: I'm going to be notifying I guess the NABC members
Speaker 3: as things come together. But I'm also hesitant, like, for example,
Speaker 3: just as a quick teaser, I guess before because I
Speaker 3: see we're kind of running out of time here. As
Speaker 3: a quick teaser, I found you know, obviously, I have
Speaker 3: the original five point tracks from Meldrum in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 3: and Jeff kept a stack of photographs in the same
Speaker 3: drawer as his casts from the Five Points area ninety six.
Speaker 3: Those are the ones that he details in this book
Speaker 3: at the beginning of his book and talks about all
Speaker 3: the details he saw, and it's what really convinced him
Speaker 3: that these animals are real and that he would be
Speaker 3: negligent of his duty as an anthropologist to ignore this question,
Speaker 3: especially when he was so perfectly qualified to look into
Speaker 3: this particular kind of evidence, you know, as being an
Speaker 3: expert in foot anatomy than by pedalism. So I've got
Speaker 3: those the original casts now, and as well as much
Speaker 3: of photographs of those footprints in the ground, as well
Speaker 3: as probably a dozen or more others. Just the other night,
Speaker 3: like two nights ago, maybe I opened a file and
Speaker 3: there were other photographs from that same scene, including a
Speaker 3: picture taken by Jeff's brother that of doctor Meldrum like
Speaker 3: kneeling down documenting one of the footprint casts, which is
Speaker 3: really interesting and a snapshot into history, because it was
Speaker 3: that moment that really solidified I think Jeff was very
Speaker 3: interested in the subject. But it was that moment which
Speaker 3: was which was Jeff's first in person contact with the evidence,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's what really did it for him.
Speaker 3: And so I ran across a photograph of him examining
Speaker 3: these footprints in the ground, as well as handwritten notes.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're from the scene because there's
Speaker 3: no dirt or anything on him, but he might have
Speaker 3: written them directly afterwards, but it is definitely his handwriting
Speaker 3: talking about that day, about how he visited Summerlin and
Speaker 3: these other people were present, and then he visited Paul
Speaker 3: who and Paul didn't remember who he was at first,
Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuffs. And then there's some
Speaker 3: handwritten drawing or hand drawn sketches of the footprints in
Speaker 3: the ground with various anatomical features pointed out and things
Speaker 3: like dat dramaticallythics evident on medial side of this and
Speaker 3: that and whatever. So yet, that kind of stuff is
Speaker 3: what really tickles my fancy because it's snapshots in the
Speaker 3: history that we're still benefiting from. You know, doctor Meldrim
Speaker 3: was a giant in our field.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you have to get a new building, cliff, you,
Speaker 2: I mean, with a Meldrum wing, a crafts wing. I mean,
Speaker 2: you we got so much stuff. You need a way
Speaker 2: bigger building.
Speaker 3: I know, I know we're gonna need a bigger boat.
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure, for sure, But you know eventually, eventually
Speaker 3: our rent is so good right now, that's when we
Speaker 3: renegotiated our lease. I mean our landlords, who are fantastic people.
Speaker 3: I just love our landlords are really really kind, funny people,
Speaker 3: and they and I just so appreciate them because they
Speaker 3: never check it check up on me. I've made their
Speaker 3: building so much better than what it is or what
Speaker 3: it was. We bring families to the complex because you
Speaker 3: know that there's a bar, there's a pizza place, there's
Speaker 3: a coffee place, and an awesome burrito place, and that's
Speaker 3: it and besides us, right, so we bring families in
Speaker 3: who wouldn't normally be there otherwise, and they go to
Speaker 3: other businesses and order coffee or food or whatever. We
Speaker 3: get it. We've been on the Discovery Channel, We've been
Speaker 3: on Animal Planet, We've been on History Channel. We get
Speaker 3: international visitors like almost every week. I mean we had
Speaker 3: people from the Netherlands day and the UK on Saturday
Speaker 3: when I was there both that same day. What other
Speaker 3: thing in Boring, Oregon? Does that, you know? I mean,
Speaker 3: it's not a slight against Boring Oregon.
Speaker 2: It's it's aptly named.
Speaker 3: It's an apptly named city, shall we say. I say
Speaker 3: it all the time. Nothing against the feed store. But
Speaker 3: we are the most exciting thing in Boring.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys, I mean like you're not even really Boring.
Speaker 2: I mean you're you're you're a whole little separate, little
Speaker 2: like just off the freeway, little little you know, a
Speaker 2: couple of buildings, gas station, pizza and the bar or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not in downtown Boring, that hustle and bustle
Speaker 3: of downtown Boring. But but we are. We are in
Speaker 3: the unincorporated city of Boring. So but but anyway, our
Speaker 3: landlords recognize the value of what we bring. All the
Speaker 3: local uh, tourism industries, mountain hood territories, travel Oregon, all
Speaker 3: those people they love us were like like their poster
Speaker 3: child from when they need something cool and interesting to
Speaker 3: put on the posters and you know whatever else. So
Speaker 3: they recognize us, and they were there. My landlords were
Speaker 3: exceedingly gracious when we renegotiated our lease. So I think
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna bide my time unless something drops in
Speaker 3: my lap, that's perfect. I'm just going to bide my
Speaker 3: time and save money for that initial down payment on
Speaker 3: that commercial loan that it would be necessary because because
Speaker 3: otherwise I got to have to refinance, you know, things
Speaker 3: that I have and stuff, and it's like it's just
Speaker 3: a big and the museum doesn't get to buy the property,
Speaker 3: you know, Cliff and Melissa have to buy the property,
Speaker 3: you know, which is which changes the dynamic of the
Speaker 3: interaction quite a bit, you know, when I'm when I'm
Speaker 3: buying a big building and stuff like that. So it's
Speaker 3: a little complex. But luckily, our rent is so forgiving
Speaker 3: at this point that I can do with a slightly
Speaker 3: smaller than wished facility for the sake of saving money
Speaker 3: for a better one someday. You know, I can sock
Speaker 3: this money away because they expect to really like a
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen percent down payment and these and the
Speaker 3: commercial building the size that we need is not going
Speaker 3: to be cheap.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think the smart thing to do. And again, unless something
Speaker 3: perfect drops in my lap, I get it. You know,
Speaker 3: I won't turn that away because my landlord, this sounds
Speaker 3: like my landlords said, you know, if you find the
Speaker 3: great they know I'm looking, and they said, if you
Speaker 3: get something, just come talk to us. We'll work it out,
Speaker 3: you know. So they're not going to like as sue
Speaker 3: me or something if something great happens and something drops
Speaker 3: in my lap. So yeah, they're really really nice people
Speaker 3: like I can't see their praises high enough. So anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're aware that we need a larger building, and they're
Speaker 3: aware that we're kind of halfway keeping an eye out
Speaker 3: and if something drops my lap, great, But in the meantime,
Speaker 3: my rent is so forgiving that I might as well
Speaker 3: stay there and just you know, out with the old
Speaker 3: and of the new. Like the next few months, we'll
Speaker 3: be pulling out some of the old displays that we've
Speaker 3: had up for a couple of years and putting brand
Speaker 3: new ones in. I've got a couple of new photographs.
Speaker 3: I have photographs of sasquatches that I have permission to
Speaker 3: use by their owners, so I'll be putting those up here.
Speaker 3: Of course, we have the doctor Meldrum and doctor Krantz
Speaker 3: collection as well to integrate somehow. And Brian Smith, the
Speaker 3: veteran bigfoot researcher, just gave me the original co cuter
Speaker 3: bill cast. I want to make a display out of that.
Speaker 3: We got to have him on as a guest as well.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of cool things coming up, and wintertime
Speaker 3: is our time to do it because summer's too busy
Speaker 3: with customers. We just can't we can't pull away. But
Speaker 3: wintertime gets a little quiet and lonely in the NABC,
Speaker 3: so it gives us more time to improve the place.
Speaker 2: So is that I guess that's about a wrap then
Speaker 2: for this.
Speaker 3: Week, I think we covered a lot of ground.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I hear from a lot of people that they enjoy
Speaker 3: us just kicking things around and the banter between friends.
Speaker 3: You know, it's nice to have interviews and stuff like
Speaker 3: that and guests and everything. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: I don't hear any negative reviews of us just hanging
Speaker 3: out and shooting the poop.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that tends to be a lot of people's favorite
Speaker 5: type of episode.
Speaker 2: Well cool, all right, we folks were Now next, we're
Speaker 2: going to go listen to Matt Preuitz, the best bigfoot
Speaker 2: ed bondistore I've heard in at least a decade, so
Speaker 2: we're gonna go over there and out of our Patreon
Speaker 2: and do that over there for our members. So thanks
Speaker 2: for listening, and until next week, you'll keep it Squatchy.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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