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Speaker 3: Radio.
Speaker 4: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 4: written about them. Geesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 4: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 4: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 4: journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good Evening, the original comprehensive
Speaker 4: case files of the East Area rapist who became known
Speaker 4: as the Original Nightstalker. A serial rapist turned serial murder,
Speaker 4: he held California in a grip of fear for far
Speaker 4: too long. Larry Crompton tells us of the attacks that
Speaker 4: began in northern California in nineteen seventy six that continued
Speaker 4: on until nineteen eighty six that we know of. Prior
Speaker 4: to Sacramento attacks, there was a serial prowler called the
Speaker 4: Viselia Ransacker, with over one hundred and twenty five break
Speaker 4: in prowlings under his belt. Detective Crompton had a feeling
Speaker 4: all of the attacks were connected and tried to tell
Speaker 4: jurisdictions across the state. Retired from Contra Costa County Department,
Speaker 4: Larry has never quit searching for this serial predator. Now,
Speaker 4: at long last, Joseph James DeAngelo is the face of
Speaker 4: the man behind the mask. Presumed innocent until proven guilty,
Speaker 4: The case appears to have been solved by a one
Speaker 4: hundred percent DNA match. His name had become the Golden
Speaker 4: State Killer. Now what we look for our answers. Hopefully
Speaker 4: there are not more victims of this serial predator. This book,
Speaker 4: originally released on paperback in twenty ten, was the first
Speaker 4: book out on a case that no one was talking about.
Speaker 4: Retired Lieutenant Crompton was compelled to write the story so
Speaker 4: we would not forget Justice is on the way. At last.
Speaker 4: The book they were featuring this evening is Sudden Terror,
Speaker 4: The true story of California's most infamous serial predator, Golden
Speaker 4: State Killer, Original night Stalker, a ka East Are Rapist,
Speaker 4: with my special guest, author and retired Lieutenant Larry Crompton.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for
Speaker 4: this interview. Larry Crompton.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Dan, I appreciate this.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. I really appreciate this, and this
Speaker 4: is going to be a real treat for the audience. Congratulations,
Speaker 4: by the way, on this incredible event for law enforcement
Speaker 4: in terms of America, a huge moment in history, never
Speaker 4: let alone true crime history. Congratulations on your involvement, your persistence,
Speaker 4: your dedication to this case. Congratulations on this arrest.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you. It took a long time to get there,
Speaker 3: but when it did, it found closure for a lot
Speaker 3: of victims in their families, and that's what it was
Speaker 3: all about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's amazing we use that word. So many people
Speaker 4: use that word closure, but I think this is as
Speaker 4: you it's an appropriate to be able to use that word,
Speaker 4: and I think even more closure will come as this
Speaker 4: person di'angelo goes trial eventually, soon, When I say eventually,
Speaker 4: April twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, as you say, forty two
Speaker 4: years later, Joseph James DeAngelo, seventy two years old was arrested.
Speaker 4: Where were you? How did you get notified? And maybe
Speaker 4: just for background, did you know before this? But on
Speaker 4: the day April twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, how did you
Speaker 4: get the news? Who gave you the news? And tell
Speaker 4: us your reaction?
Speaker 3: Well, what happened? About nine o'clock that night, I was
Speaker 3: contacted by Richard Shelby, and Richard was on the Task
Speaker 3: Force in Sacramento and said that there was a rumor
Speaker 3: that he was arrested and I was in jail, and
Speaker 3: wanted to know if I had heard about it, and
Speaker 3: I said no, I hadn't, but I will check. And
Speaker 3: I called Larry Pool, the sergeant that I had met
Speaker 3: with the Orange County Task Force, and asked him if
Speaker 3: he had heard, and he said no, I hadn't, but
Speaker 3: he said, let me check. So he called me back
Speaker 3: about fifteen minutes later and said it is true. He
Speaker 3: was arrested tonight and he is in custody, and yes,
Speaker 3: And I couldn't sleep that night, I couldn't close my eyes.
Speaker 3: It was just it was so awesome that, after all
Speaker 3: these years that had happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like you say, it didn't sleep that night.
Speaker 4: The next day you were obviously anxious and excited and
Speaker 4: definitely curious to the details. What did you find out
Speaker 4: in the next day, in the following days, what did
Speaker 4: you find out about this D'Angelo and his arrest? What
Speaker 4: did you find out?
Speaker 3: Well, it took a while for me to find out.
Speaker 3: Obviously I was retired and was still in contact with
Speaker 3: some of them. But the night that I found out
Speaker 3: about it, I contacted Jane Carson, she was the fifth
Speaker 3: victim in Sacramento, and told her that he had been arrested,
Speaker 3: and she was in tears. So I had to find
Speaker 3: out as much as I could. But I was in
Speaker 3: contact with Sergeant Ken Clark in Sacramento, and he told
Speaker 3: me that they had been watching him for a week
Speaker 3: and the DNA, the familial DNA, had connected several and
Speaker 3: they narrowed it down to and said that then they
Speaker 3: narrowed it down to one, and that one obviously was Joseph,
Speaker 3: And they said they followed him for a week and
Speaker 3: they watched them and then they got some more DNA
Speaker 3: off of him and that mashed up even more. And
Speaker 3: then they videotaped them and then they waited for him
Speaker 3: until he come out of the house, and then they
Speaker 3: arrested him as he come out, and like I said
Speaker 3: at that time, that was the best way to do it,
Speaker 3: because what he wanted to do was to go back
Speaker 3: in the house and obviously get a gun. When I
Speaker 3: was working the case, I had talked to psychiatrists and
Speaker 3: other people that were dealing with rapists, and what they
Speaker 3: told me was that if you come across him before
Speaker 3: he commits a crime, you're never going to put it together.
Speaker 3: Is going to be so good that you'll never know.
Speaker 3: If you come across him after he commits a crime,
Speaker 3: he will kill you or he will kill himself, but
Speaker 3: he won't be taken. And I lived with that thought
Speaker 3: all those years, and then when I saw how they
Speaker 3: did it and the way they did it, I thought, yep,
Speaker 3: psychiatrists were right on course, they knew what he was,
Speaker 3: so it was exciting to know how they did it.
Speaker 3: And then I saw him when saw him when he
Speaker 3: went into court the first time and in the wheelchair,
Speaker 3: and then once he found out what they knew, about him.
Speaker 3: Things have changed, and I still don't know when he's
Speaker 3: going to ever say anything. And hopefully we'll learn from
Speaker 3: him what we need to be looking for when we
Speaker 3: come across somebody like him.
Speaker 4: HM, what was the I talked to our mutual friend
Speaker 4: and Penn and and she has written extensively about this
Speaker 4: case in her involvement with her aunt and uncle Lyman
Speaker 4: and Charlene Smith, and she spoke extensively of the support
Speaker 4: that she had through this with specifically you in terms
Speaker 4: of your empathy and compassion and just understanding about what
Speaker 4: it would be like and the answers that these people
Speaker 4: needed to have even if there is not an answer,
Speaker 4: but or the reassurances. Other than Jane Carson, and I
Speaker 4: mentioned Lori, Anne and Penn Aka, how many of the
Speaker 4: victims did you interact with and for how long? Tell
Speaker 4: us a little bit more about that contact with those
Speaker 4: people and what that was like.
Speaker 3: Well, when I was on television one time and then
Speaker 3: I wrote the book and I was contacted by Jane Carson,
Speaker 3: and I had a lot of talks with her and
Speaker 3: stayed with her, and I told her that she was
Speaker 3: a survivor, and I said, your history and what you
Speaker 3: went through. You need to put that in a book
Speaker 3: and get it out. And it's not just for rape victims,
Speaker 3: it's for victims of any crime. And what she went
Speaker 3: through and how she dealt with it and what she
Speaker 3: became was important. So she did. She wrote wrote her book,
Speaker 3: Frozen in Fear, and it is fantastic. And then I
Speaker 3: was also able to be in contact with Michelle Cruz,
Speaker 3: she's sister of Janelle Cruz, the young lady that was murdered,
Speaker 3: and Debbie Domingo, the daughter of Sherry Domingo, and we've
Speaker 3: stayed in contact, and there really are the only victims
Speaker 3: and families that I've stayed in contact with continually. And
Speaker 3: others I have dealt with, but not the same way
Speaker 3: that I have with these, and seeing what they went
Speaker 3: through and how they dealt with it, and it just
Speaker 3: made it so that I had to stay with it
Speaker 3: because I saw what they went through and what they needed.
Speaker 4: Over all these years. What could you What could you
Speaker 4: say to them that would keep them repeatedly calling you?
Speaker 4: What would and not be critical as many people would do,
Speaker 4: understandably that that there hadn't been arrest, Why not why
Speaker 4: not tell us? What should you possibly say to these people,
Speaker 4: and how did what was the tone of these conversations
Speaker 4: to be able to keep these people at least hoping well.
Speaker 3: I would tell them I knew that the investigations were ongoing,
Speaker 3: and that the ones that were that were involved at
Speaker 3: that time were one hundred percent into it and wanted
Speaker 3: this close, and they wanted it closed for the victims
Speaker 3: and their families. And they went through the same thing
Speaker 3: I did. For many years. I blamed myself and thought
Speaker 3: I needed to get this closed. I needed, I needed,
Speaker 3: and then it came to me, it wasn't about me.
Speaker 3: This is about the victims and their families. So that's
Speaker 3: what I would talk to them about, about how they
Speaker 3: were dealing with it and how strong they were, and
Speaker 3: that those that were involved and were working on it
Speaker 3: were doing everything they could and that I just couldn't
Speaker 3: give it up and told him that I had to
Speaker 3: stay with it and anything that I could do for them,
Speaker 3: I would, And any time I heard anything, I made
Speaker 3: sure that it was given to Sacramento or to Larry
Speaker 3: Pool down in Orange County to follow up on. And
Speaker 3: then I got involved with three civilians down in Sacramento
Speaker 3: that were also involved in the case cases, and they
Speaker 3: were involved because they were in the area when he
Speaker 3: was hitting and then they saw me on TV and
Speaker 3: saw my book and got it. So I was in
Speaker 3: con with them, and I knew that they had such
Speaker 3: a close contact with Sacramento Sheriff's Office, with the detectives there,
Speaker 3: So anything that I had, I made sure that I
Speaker 3: got to them and they could work on it and
Speaker 3: get information back to me. And those three kept the
Speaker 3: case going and would not give up on it. And
Speaker 3: Melanie Barbo and Kay Gilbraith, Robert Neville, they just were
Speaker 3: so involved in this that they were the ones that
Speaker 3: kept the case going. They just wouldn't let it go
Speaker 3: and they made sure that Sacramento was on top of
Speaker 3: everything that they come up with. So what I've said
Speaker 3: all along, law enforcement is not going to be solving
Speaker 3: crimes by themselves. They need the civilians to be involved.
Speaker 3: And that's what happened here and it was because of
Speaker 3: that that it was finally solved. And have to give
Speaker 3: credit to those people that stayed with it. And Richard Shelby,
Speaker 3: the retired detective from Sacramento, couldn't give up on it.
Speaker 3: He put his book out and just Paul Hol's criminalists
Speaker 3: from Sacramento or from Contra Costa. He stayed with it,
Speaker 3: and Larry Poole couldn't give up on it. Ken Clark,
Speaker 3: Paul Belly from Sacramento, they stayed with it. So it
Speaker 3: was that that finally solved this case.
Speaker 4: They could have just looked at your book that you
Speaker 4: published in twenty ten, but that's not the extent of
Speaker 4: your input in this case. And with those people like
Speaker 4: Pool and Paul Holes that you mentioned from the FBI
Speaker 4: in Contra Costa County, tell us more about this relationship
Speaker 4: with Paul Holes and at least when he came on
Speaker 4: board and his interest in this case and your at
Speaker 4: least assistance in helping him understand this case.
Speaker 3: Well, what happened was Jim Evans was the detective in
Speaker 3: Sacramento that I worked with very close. He came down
Speaker 3: to our county and told us about the East Area
Speaker 3: rapist and at that time there had been thirty seven
Speaker 3: attacks and we knew nothing about it. And so I
Speaker 3: started working with Jim Evans. And then Jim called me
Speaker 3: one time and he said that he heard of a
Speaker 3: double homicide down in Santa Barbara and said that he
Speaker 3: called Santa Barbara, and they said, don't know what you're
Speaker 3: talking about, and so he ran it by me. So
Speaker 3: I called Santa Barbara and I got the same thing back, that, no,
Speaker 3: we don't know what you're talking about. We have nothing
Speaker 3: like that. So it just so happened that the sheriff
Speaker 3: sent me down to a class down in San Diego
Speaker 3: at the university, and there happened to be a Santa
Speaker 3: Barbara officer in the class, and I got talking to
Speaker 3: him and he said, oh, yeah, we did. We had
Speaker 3: a double homicide and he said, Robert Offerman and Deborah Manning.
Speaker 3: And he said, and just before that, we had an
Speaker 3: attempted rape where the people got away. And I said
Speaker 3: what and he said yeah. And I said, well, gosh,
Speaker 3: we knew nothing about that. So I got those reports
Speaker 3: and Jim Bevans and I went over them and we
Speaker 3: in our minds, yes, their murder, their attempted rapist was
Speaker 3: our rapist, but nobody would believe us, and nobody wanted
Speaker 3: to get involved his apartment. My department said, no, he's
Speaker 3: left our area, he's no longer ours, and no, it's
Speaker 3: not the same person. So what happened was in two
Speaker 3: thousand it was. Paul Hols called me and said that
Speaker 3: he heard that I had been on the East Area
Speaker 3: Rapist Task Force, and he said, I'm a DNA expert
Speaker 3: here at the lab, and he said, if you can
Speaker 3: give me some names, I'll do the DNA because back
Speaker 3: then we didn't have DNA when all this was going on,
Speaker 3: and we only knew that it was the same person
Speaker 3: committing the rapes because of the way that he did it,
Speaker 3: and there was no doubt in our minds that. But
Speaker 3: I gave him three names and he called me back
Speaker 3: a while later and said, yeah, I joined two of them.
Speaker 3: And then he called me back another month later and said, yeah,
Speaker 3: all three of them have the same DNA. So I said, okay, Paul,
Speaker 3: I know that down in southern California, I know of
Speaker 3: five homicides, and I said, I can't get any cooperation,
Speaker 3: but if you can get a criminalist down there that
Speaker 3: will work with you, I know they have evidence, and
Speaker 3: I know that their murderer is our rapist. And I said,
Speaker 3: if you can get them to cooperate with you, I
Speaker 3: know it's there. So he called me back about seven
Speaker 3: months later and he said, no, they didn't have five homicides,
Speaker 3: said they had ten and we just joined six of them,
Speaker 3: so that was exciting. And he said that Orange County
Speaker 3: wanted me to fly down there and talk to them.
Speaker 3: So I contacted Orange County and the sheriff wanted me
Speaker 3: to come down and I told him, I said, I
Speaker 3: have all the reports of Northern California attacks. And I said,
Speaker 3: if you want, you can send your detective up here.
Speaker 3: I have the contact up here. We can go to
Speaker 3: the sheriff's department and get copies of them. And he said, no,
Speaker 3: we want you down here. He said, we'll pay to
Speaker 3: have you and all the reports. So I flew down
Speaker 3: there with them and met with their task force and
Speaker 3: stayed there for a couple of weeks going over everything.
Speaker 3: And that opened up the investigation because they didn't know
Speaker 3: who they were looking for or what type of a
Speaker 3: person they were looking for. But after looking at the
Speaker 3: reports from Northern California, it gave him a better idea.
Speaker 3: And I didn't know at the time, but they had
Speaker 3: already done DNA on some of theirs down there prior
Speaker 3: to that, and so that part was already there and
Speaker 3: it was just a matter of connecting it. And then
Speaker 3: trying to find out who that would connect too. But
Speaker 3: that got the investigation going and opened it up north
Speaker 3: and south, and that really helped.
Speaker 4: After this, you also employ every other strategy to be
Speaker 4: able to move this investigation forward, like you say, with
Speaker 4: the FBI, and with that connection and the DNA connection,
Speaker 4: it becomes much more cohesive and much more viable investigation
Speaker 4: for everyone. When you were doing other things like A
Speaker 4: and E reached out to you Bill Curtis and Cold
Speaker 4: Case Files and then later some other television programs and
Speaker 4: then so tell us a little bit about that outreach
Speaker 4: and what the purpose of that was and why you
Speaker 4: were wanted to be involved with that, and before we
Speaker 4: talk about other things like reaching out to Kim Rosmo,
Speaker 4: geographical profiler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it was with me. I couldn't get it
Speaker 3: out of my mind. I had to stay with it,
Speaker 3: and I was contacted by uh several television programs and
Speaker 3: radio and UH newspaper and matter of fact, Michelle McNamara
Speaker 3: contacted me and UH she did a a thing for
Speaker 3: a magazine on me, and so that opened it up
Speaker 3: so that I was contacted by many people, and UH
Speaker 3: really got involved in it that way, and I just
Speaker 3: wanted it to keep on going, and UH couldn't let
Speaker 3: it die. And it was just one of those things
Speaker 3: that UH stayed in my mind. And like I said, UH,
Speaker 3: I kept thinking that Uh I was supposed to cl
Speaker 3: was that case. I was supposed to catch him, and
Speaker 3: I failed, and I failed, And then it finally dawned
Speaker 3: on me that it wasn't about me. It was about
Speaker 3: the victims and their families. So anything and everything that
Speaker 3: I could do, I stayed with it. And I was very,
Speaker 3: very fortunate to be able to work with Larry Poole
Speaker 3: and Ken Clark and Paul Belly, and with those three
Speaker 3: working the case at the same time, I knew that
Speaker 3: there was a good chance that it would eventually be solved.
Speaker 4: You talk about I mentioned Ken Rosmo or Kim Rosmo
Speaker 4: pardon me, you have in the book which is rereading
Speaker 4: it again after interviewing you in twenty twelve that it's
Speaker 4: very interesting what through his geographical profiling, using zip codes
Speaker 4: and that information into a program and trying to pinpoint
Speaker 4: where the perpetrator was residing during those attacks. It was
Speaker 4: interesting to see what he said in light of DeAngelo's arrest.
Speaker 4: Your idea that didn't you believe he still probably resided
Speaker 4: in Sacramento. What is it interesting to see what Kim
Speaker 4: Rosmo had deduced so long ago? In two thousand and.
Speaker 3: Three, Oh yes, I was contacted by Mike Weymouth, who
Speaker 3: was a detective with Contracosta, and he and I had
Speaker 3: worked together, and he was in patrol when I was
Speaker 3: on the task force. And Mike is the one that
Speaker 3: contacted me and told me about Kim Rosmo and said
Speaker 3: that he was an excellent person to deal with this.
Speaker 3: And Kim did put a lot of time into it
Speaker 3: and felt the areas where he would be, And in
Speaker 3: all those years, I felt that he was still in Sacramento.
Speaker 3: I couldn't get out out of my mind that he
Speaker 3: was in Sacramento, but couldn't come up with any any
Speaker 3: proof or anything else. But with what Kim decided him,
Speaker 3: what he showed and what he gave me, everything just fit.
Speaker 3: And thought that because of that we'd be able to
Speaker 3: find out something. But because of the way that some
Speaker 3: things go, we couldn't get names or anything else from
Speaker 3: different phone calls and things like that. But it still
Speaker 3: still helped, and it narrowed it down to areas and
Speaker 3: he felt the same way I did that that d' angelo,
Speaker 3: even though we didn't know who D'Angelo was, that he
Speaker 3: was in Sacramento and worked out that way.
Speaker 4: You write in the book, well, before you know who
Speaker 4: is going to be the perpetrator, that the police departments
Speaker 4: are praying and hoping that it's not a member of
Speaker 4: law enforcement that's the perpetrator. In this you're a member
Speaker 4: of law enforcement. So I mean, in the light of this,
Speaker 4: this is a victory. This is an incredible victory. How
Speaker 4: surprising was it for you? I mean in the book
Speaker 4: you talk about that it looks like you've narrowed it
Speaker 4: down that he has military training, and you give the
Speaker 4: evidence for that, and that's been discussed, But how surprised
Speaker 4: were you that he was a police officer? And just
Speaker 4: what was your response when you found that out? Would
Speaker 4: you think?
Speaker 3: Well, to be honest with you, it didn't affect me
Speaker 3: that much in all those years. I felt that because
Speaker 3: of the way that he acted and because of his
Speaker 3: knowledge about guns, he had to have some kind of
Speaker 3: a background, and I felt that he was either in
Speaker 3: the military, or family was or possibly family that was
Speaker 3: in law enforcement. And I just felt that the knowledge
Speaker 3: that he had and the way that he talked about
Speaker 3: the weapons and the fact that he had different weapons.
Speaker 3: He had to have some kind of a background. And
Speaker 3: I was in internal affairs for several years, and unfortunately
Speaker 3: I was involved in several deputies being fired for misconduct
Speaker 3: or other things. So you know that no matter what
Speaker 3: the profession is, there's a chance that they're bad ones.
Speaker 3: And doesn't matter whether it's teachers or ministers, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: It can happen anywheres. And the fact that it happened
Speaker 3: to be somebody that had been in law enforcement, even
Speaker 3: though it was for a short time. The only thing
Speaker 3: that I got out of it, and the ones that
Speaker 3: I talked to got out of it, was they were
Speaker 3: just happy that he was caught, and the fact that
Speaker 3: he was law enforcement did not affect us that way.
Speaker 3: We were just glad that he was caught.
Speaker 4: Oh no, I didn't mean it, but in that way,
Speaker 4: what I meant was in when you've racked your brain
Speaker 4: to say who is this and other people have done
Speaker 4: criminal profiles to say who this person might be? Who
Speaker 4: is he likely to be? When you realize it's okay,
Speaker 4: a seventy two year old person, but you realize he
Speaker 4: was a police officer. Briefly, does that contribute to any
Speaker 4: of the Aha, how he got away with it, how
Speaker 4: he's such an effective rapist and killer for so long?
Speaker 3: No, to me, it was different. It was because he
Speaker 3: was in law enforcement. Why wasn't it brought to somebody's
Speaker 3: attention and the fact that where he was when it
Speaker 3: was happening. And one of the reasons I wrote the
Speaker 3: book was that I was hoping somebody would read it
Speaker 3: and say, I know somebody that had been in those
Speaker 3: areas at that time. And what we find out now,
Speaker 3: Joseph Giangelo was in those areas at that time, and
Speaker 3: it was very obvious that he was in those areas areas,
Speaker 3: and as law enforcement, I think that he probably in
Speaker 3: his patrol car, did prowl areas to know where he
Speaker 3: was going to go. But nobody ever seemed to have
Speaker 3: even noticed a patrol car. And in most people's minds,
Speaker 3: when they see a patrol car and it goes by,
Speaker 3: it doesn't stay in their mind. So he had every
Speaker 3: opportunity to do what he did. And when I learned
Speaker 3: about the rapes that happened in Sacramento and went through
Speaker 3: the reports, and I thought, there's no way that somebody
Speaker 3: could have started out with that kind of a plan.
Speaker 3: He had to have something prior to that, and I
Speaker 3: thought maybe he had been arrested for rape and went
Speaker 3: to prison and got a better system to work on.
Speaker 3: So I got all parolees from a six month period
Speaker 3: prior to the first Sacramento attack, and I had between
Speaker 3: seven and nine thousand all together, and my partners and
Speaker 3: I would go up to Sacramento and go through all
Speaker 3: the paroles and eliminate them for different reasons that they
Speaker 3: were in prison during some of the rapes, or different
Speaker 3: sizes and stuff like that, and we narrowed it down
Speaker 3: to about forty five. And those forty five I couldn't contact,
Speaker 3: never found their parole officers, didn't know where they were,
Speaker 3: and a couple of them really looked good. And that
Speaker 3: was one thing that when D'Angelo was arrested, that was
Speaker 3: one thing that unfortunately was in my mind. I'm glad
Speaker 3: he wasn't one of my parolees because if he was, yeah,
Speaker 3: then I would have missed it. And and that's not
Speaker 3: the way that I should have looked at it. Again,
Speaker 3: I was thinking of me and that uh oh, I
Speaker 3: fouled up I didn't. I didn't and had to get
Speaker 3: it in my mind that that's not it was about. Uh.
Speaker 3: It was we eliminated thousands of names over the years,
Speaker 3: and some of them really look good andy, but some
Speaker 3: of them we had to work on and and UH
Speaker 3: worked on him for months before we could eliminate him.
Speaker 3: And but those are things that you do, and uh,
Speaker 3: it just stays with you. And and that's what uh,
Speaker 3: like I said, for years, I would wake up in
Speaker 3: the middle of the night, what did I miss? What
Speaker 3: they do wrong? And just just comes to you finally
Speaker 3: that no, it finally did happen, and it happened for
Speaker 3: the right reason. It happened so that the victims and
Speaker 3: their families could finally find closure. And yes, it probably
Speaker 3: will be another year or more before he goes to court,
Speaker 3: and so it's going to take a lot. But I
Speaker 3: really would like to know what was in his head
Speaker 3: and what did we miss and what could we have
Speaker 3: done better? And I don't know if he'd tell us
Speaker 3: or not, but I'd like to like to be one
Speaker 3: of the ones talking to him. But unfortunately I'm retired,
Speaker 3: so that won't happen. But that's what it's all about.
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Speaker 4: your home. Just go to Ring dot com slash murder.
Speaker 4: That's Ring dot com slash murder. We talked about Arry,
Speaker 4: about all of the things that you were doing, the
Speaker 4: networking that you were doing, the people that recognized and
Speaker 4: realized that you were an asset and a valuable asset
Speaker 4: in moving this investigation to the next level to try
Speaker 4: to find closure for the victims. As you said, you
Speaker 4: realize that when you got caught up in that it
Speaker 4: was about you at all, then you realize that it
Speaker 4: really was about the victims and closure for them. When
Speaker 4: you wrote this book in twenty ten, was again after
Speaker 4: you were retired. What was the goal of the book,
Speaker 4: What was the purpose of the book at that time.
Speaker 3: Well, I started writing the book while I was still working,
Speaker 3: but I couldn't put the book together because, like I said,
Speaker 3: nobody would believe me that the murders and the rapes
Speaker 3: were connected. So I just didn't feel like I wanted
Speaker 3: the book out there at that time. And then once
Speaker 3: I found out about the murders and was able to
Speaker 3: join that, and then was able to get some of
Speaker 3: the reports, then I put the book together. And I
Speaker 3: only wrote that book for that one reason, to get
Speaker 3: it out there, so that somebody would come up with
Speaker 3: a name, they would see where these acts were taking
Speaker 3: place and how violent they were. And during the time
Speaker 3: that this was going on, Joseph DiAngelo was not the
Speaker 3: most active rapist in California. He was the most violent,
Speaker 3: and in every one of his attacks, the people, the
Speaker 3: victims knew that they were going to die. In their mind,
Speaker 3: he was going to kill him, and he made sure
Speaker 3: that they knew that on every one of those attacks.
Speaker 3: It wasn't until the sixteenth attack that there was a
Speaker 3: man in the house. After the fifteenth attack, the newspaper
Speaker 3: come out and said that there'd never been a man
Speaker 3: in the house. So obviously he read the newspaper and
Speaker 3: the next one there was a man in the house.
Speaker 3: And then he started putting dishes on the man's back
Speaker 3: and telling them if I hear these rattle, I'll kill
Speaker 3: your wife, I'll kill you, cut off the ears of
Speaker 3: your child, bring him to you. That type of thing,
Speaker 3: his whole thing. And I went and with a doctor
Speaker 3: at the Vacaville Medical Center and I gave her some
Speaker 3: reports and she worked with the rapists that were in
Speaker 3: custody and asked her to go over the reports. And
Speaker 3: then I went back a week later to talk to
Speaker 3: her and she said, yeah, I've met with my rapist.
Speaker 3: You had better catch him. He wants to kill and
Speaker 3: he's going to kill And I asked her, and I said, well,
Speaker 3: why hasn't he. I didn't tell her about the two
Speaker 3: that were murdered in Sacramento, and I just asked her,
Speaker 3: why hasn't she And she said, he hasn't found the
Speaker 3: justification yet. Once he finds the justification, he's going to kill.
Speaker 3: And she said, my rapist in here said that he's
Speaker 3: given them a bad name. And I said, given them
Speaker 3: a bad name, and she said, well, you got to
Speaker 3: understand they don't think that they hurt anybody. They're doing
Speaker 3: it for sex. This person is not doing it for sex.
Speaker 3: He's doing it for the terror that he could put
Speaker 3: in their minds. And he's doing it because he wants
Speaker 3: to kill him. And what we found out was after
Speaker 3: the last attack in my area that people got away.
Speaker 3: The reason they got away is because all these attacks
Speaker 3: now were in the newspaper, so they knew what was
Speaker 3: going to happen, and they worked out a plan that
Speaker 3: if they were attacked, there was an escape route and
Speaker 3: if they could get that escape route, then they'd get away. Well,
Speaker 3: very very fortunate the way that it happened that time,
Speaker 3: the man woke up when the rapist was just putting
Speaker 3: his ski mask over his face, so he didn't have
Speaker 3: a gun in his hand, and the man woke up
Speaker 3: yelling and shouting at him, screaming at him, and it
Speaker 3: got the rapist confused. It gave the wife an opportunity
Speaker 3: to hit the escape route and to get away, and
Speaker 3: once the husband realized that she was free, that he
Speaker 3: did the same thing, and then the rapist got away.
Speaker 3: Then when he hit down in Santa Barbara the first
Speaker 3: time down there, again the people got away. That was
Speaker 3: his justification. No one was going to get away again.
Speaker 3: And that's when he started murdering each and every one
Speaker 3: of them. And going through the reports, you could tell
Speaker 3: that sex was not his number one priority. It was
Speaker 3: the terror that you put in their minds. And just
Speaker 3: about all of the women said that he never never
Speaker 3: had a full erection. They could hear him lubricating himself
Speaker 3: all that, so that's not what it was. And again
Speaker 3: the doctor at the Vaculo Medical Center, she was right.
Speaker 3: Once he found that justification, that was it. No one
Speaker 3: was going to get away from him again.
Speaker 4: You talk about all along in this book that you
Speaker 4: have to reassure people because bizarrely the people the man
Speaker 4: feels guilty that he didn't do more. When he's told
Speaker 4: he's tied up, he's restrained, he's got dishes on his back,
Speaker 4: he's been threatened, and yet still you have to talk
Speaker 4: to these people. You came up fairly quickly without I
Speaker 4: didn't see any background that would make you be able
Speaker 4: to do this, but you came up with the idea
Speaker 4: that you better tell them something. What did you tell
Speaker 4: these husbands after attack? What did you tell these people.
Speaker 3: In talking to them? I tell him, I know that
Speaker 3: in your mind, your number one priority was to save
Speaker 3: your way for your girlfriend. But if you had done something,
Speaker 3: he would have killed you. The rape. Yes, it's bad,
Speaker 3: it is very bad, and it's going to be hard
Speaker 3: to live with, but you're still living. And if you
Speaker 3: had fought him, there's a very very good opportunity for
Speaker 3: him to do what he wanted to do, and that
Speaker 3: was to kill So I would talk to him and
Speaker 3: tell him, you've got to deal with it, knowing that
Speaker 3: you did every You did everything you could write. And
Speaker 3: I know it was difficult for many of them. Many
Speaker 3: of them ended up in divorce. And because I couldn't
Speaker 3: deal with the fact that they did not take care
Speaker 3: of their wife, and I tried to get that in
Speaker 3: their mind that you did the right thing by dealing
Speaker 3: with it the way that you did, and now just
Speaker 3: try and work together and deal with it that way.
Speaker 3: And I know it was very hard, and but I
Speaker 3: saw in talking to them, I knew what was in
Speaker 3: their mind, and I knew the fear that uh that
Speaker 3: was there, and I knew that their number one priority
Speaker 3: in their mind was to save their loved one, and
Speaker 3: in most cases, uh, in their mind, they didn't do it.
Speaker 3: And it was hard to get them to uh to
Speaker 3: understand that. And and uh it would be hard for
Speaker 3: me to understand it if it had happened to me.
Speaker 3: So uh, very very difficult. But uh, I spent as
Speaker 3: much time as I could with them, talking to them.
Speaker 3: And like I said, when I finally met with Jane
Speaker 3: Carson and got to go through her life and what
Speaker 3: she went through and uh, how she dealt with it,
Speaker 3: and then I got it into my mind that yes,
Speaker 3: it can happen, they can get through it. And her
Speaker 3: book is one that, like I said, victims need to
Speaker 3: read and know that they can survive and can deal
Speaker 3: with things.
Speaker 4: You also, maybe we can talk about this now that
Speaker 4: we talked about and pen Aka or Laurie, Lori Anne,
Speaker 4: her relatives, Charlene and Lyman Smith. She has a different
Speaker 4: relationship with you in terms of she's not your average
Speaker 4: victim because of her being an author and a journalist
Speaker 4: and having a little bit different approach to how she
Speaker 4: would exist as a survivor, her survivor survival techniques. Tell
Speaker 4: us just a little bit about your interaction with her.
Speaker 3: Well, when when I first met up with Laurie and
Speaker 3: went through what was on her mind and that with
Speaker 3: Lyman being murdered the way that he was and Charlene
Speaker 3: and for her to be part of that family and
Speaker 3: know what was going through her mind. And she started
Speaker 3: telling me what she was doing, and she was writing
Speaker 3: a book and about the family and what families go
Speaker 3: through and what they do. And I found that she
Speaker 3: was so involved in trying to get this out for
Speaker 3: people to look at, to let them know what a
Speaker 3: family does go through and how important it is to
Speaker 3: deal with it. Now important it was to find closure
Speaker 3: and very very very dedicated young lady. And it was
Speaker 3: it was good in reading her book to find out
Speaker 3: what went through the mind of those family members like that,
Speaker 3: and it proves to all of us in law enforcement
Speaker 3: how important it is to solve these crimes and get
Speaker 3: that final closure.
Speaker 4: In your original book, you did something so in true
Speaker 4: crime at least, it's unusual and untypical. Why is part
Speaker 4: of your book? I mean, you have all the descriptions,
Speaker 4: and you got the cooperation. I was going to mention too,
Speaker 4: you've got all the cooperation with these people when it
Speaker 4: was time to put out this book. This graphic stuff
Speaker 4: that has to be released. So you had that trust
Speaker 4: from those family members to be able to put that
Speaker 4: in the book and tell them why you needed. They needed,
Speaker 4: everyone needed to have that in the book to move
Speaker 4: this forward to maybe jar someone's mind to again details
Speaker 4: that could help. This is all from the commitment from
Speaker 4: everyone involved. You as one of the early, the earliest
Speaker 4: people pushing this investigation forward. Why is some of the
Speaker 4: book fictionalized? Tell us what the purposes of some of
Speaker 4: the book fictionalized?
Speaker 2: On?
Speaker 4: What parts are well?
Speaker 3: Because I wasn't involved in the first forty first thirty
Speaker 3: seven attacks, knew nothing about those attacks. I got the reports,
Speaker 3: but I had never never talked to those detectives, never
Speaker 3: talk to any of those victims, So I couldn't I
Speaker 3: didn't want to use the detective's names, and I didn't
Speaker 3: obviously would not use the victims' names except in the
Speaker 3: uh in the homicides because that is out there, but uh,
Speaker 3: in the rape, the victims' names are not out there,
Speaker 3: So there's no way I would do that. And the
Speaker 3: only thing that that I put in there was that
Speaker 3: I got from the reports themselves, the initial reports that
Speaker 3: were written, and and also in talking to Sergeant Jim
Speaker 3: Bevans with Sacramento, and that's where I got the information from.
Speaker 3: And once it was out there, and a lot of
Speaker 3: the things that I put in the book also was
Speaker 3: articles from the newspapers. When they finally did start putting
Speaker 3: it into the newspaper. The first several attacks, they didn't
Speaker 3: want it out there, uh, to let the rapists know
Speaker 3: that they were looking for him, so uh, they didn't
Speaker 3: want it in the news. And then once it got
Speaker 3: in the news, and obviously that uh, that increased it.
Speaker 3: But other than that, the only thing that U the
Speaker 3: only thing I did differently, I tried to put a
Speaker 3: little humor in the book to break it up a
Speaker 3: little bit and also to show how police officers do
Speaker 3: work at times and what they go through and how
Speaker 3: they deal with it. And what we found out during
Speaker 3: all this was that very very few UH departments did
Speaker 3: cooperate and did work together, and that was that was
Speaker 3: the bad thing back then. What you did yourself stayed there.
Speaker 3: And when when I finally was on the task force
Speaker 3: and started working, I went down to the Berkeley to
Speaker 3: talk to a detective down there that was working the
Speaker 3: Stinky Rapist and we knew about the Stinky Rapist and
Speaker 3: we knew he was hitting in that area. And while
Speaker 3: I was talking to him, he told me that San
Speaker 3: Jose had been hit twice by a rapist and we
Speaker 3: knew nothing about that. And I get talked to him
Speaker 3: and I said, well, how come we didn't know about it?
Speaker 3: And he said, well, you got to understand, he said,
Speaker 3: with San Jose, if the rape victim does not know
Speaker 3: who the rapist is, they don't investigate it. It's just
Speaker 3: put off to the side. And I couldn't believe that
Speaker 3: any department would work that way because I had worked
Speaker 3: several rapes in my career, and prior to doing this,
Speaker 3: I was involved in him, and I thought, how can
Speaker 3: any department worked that way? UH. It's important UH for
Speaker 3: those victims and uh but he said, well, they're so
Speaker 3: busy down there, they just don't have the time. And
Speaker 3: that's the way that it was. But like I said,
Speaker 3: uh before I said, uh, D'Angelo was not the most
Speaker 3: active rapist. He was the most violent. But uh we
Speaker 3: had at that time in California. He had the wooly rapist,
Speaker 3: the early morning rapist, uh, pillowcase rapist, uh stinky like
Speaker 3: I said, the car Key rapist, San Diego PD East
Speaker 3: San Diego rapist, and uh some of those were never caught.
Speaker 3: Uh some of 'em were caught uh uh and sent
Speaker 3: to prison. One was uh rested, sent to prison, got
Speaker 3: out and went back east and was arrested back there
Speaker 3: for rape. So it's uh, it's I it's something that
Speaker 3: you look back on and you think what was going
Speaker 3: on and the fact that we weren't cooperating with each other.
Speaker 3: Like I said, I was very very very fortunate to
Speaker 3: be able to work with Jim Evans with Sacramento and
Speaker 3: Larry Pool with Orange County, and we did work together
Speaker 3: and we did not keep anything from each other. But
Speaker 3: uh that was different than uh most agencies and uh
Speaker 3: uh even in my U I in my County. Uh.
Speaker 3: When he hit in Walnut Creek, they told me they
Speaker 3: didn't need my help. The first one that they hit
Speaker 3: in Wallet Creek was a seventeen year old that was babysitting,
Speaker 3: and I went and talked to her and found out
Speaker 3: that she had not baby sat there for two months,
Speaker 3: so he could not have known. And so I said,
Speaker 3: that's not who he was after. He's after somebody else
Speaker 3: in your neighborhood. And they said, we don't need your out.
Speaker 3: And a week later they did hit, and he hit
Speaker 3: a thirteen year old, and that's the one he was
Speaker 3: after the first time. So it's that lack of cooperation
Speaker 3: that really hurt us back then, and I'm hoping that
Speaker 3: today it's different. And like I said, we knew nothing
Speaker 3: about the rapes and Sacramento and even in Davis, which
Speaker 3: was only a few miles from us, we did not
Speaker 3: know anything about him because if you didn't live in
Speaker 3: the town or get that newspaper, you didn't hear about it. Today,
Speaker 3: if a dog is bitten back in New York, it's
Speaker 3: in the paper the next day out here. So it's
Speaker 3: different now, but back then it was very difficult.
Speaker 4: You talk about cooperation and the ultimate cooperation is what
Speaker 4: led to this arrest and capture and this incredible use
Speaker 4: of the familial DNA. Did you go through a what
Speaker 4: regular citizens can do and that innovation? Obviously when we
Speaker 4: talked about in the very beginning you found out you
Speaker 4: sure didn't get a call from the FBI, you but
Speaker 4: you were, you were you found out. Tell us more
Speaker 4: about prior to this the last year. We'll say, it
Speaker 4: seemed to me in dealing with Ann Penn that the
Speaker 4: FBI was doing to me, it seemed an unpreceded, unprecedented
Speaker 4: in my mind, outreach to the public. It seemed like
Speaker 4: they were very very confident as well that there would
Speaker 4: be an arrest without giving away what they were doing,
Speaker 4: but everybody still has seen progress with DNA technology. Did
Speaker 4: you sense a renewed interest that something was afoot? What
Speaker 4: did you feel in that, say, in the last year
Speaker 4: or previous to this, in the last while, did you
Speaker 4: see any change? Did you anticipate anything? What was that?
Speaker 4: Did you see anything or was it all my mind?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I did when the FBI got involved and put out
Speaker 3: the reward, and I thought this is going to open
Speaker 3: it up. Unfortunately, when the rapes were going on a
Speaker 3: lot of times citizens could have called in things and didn't.
Speaker 3: One heard a window being broken at the neighbor and thought, oh,
Speaker 3: they're not home, so nobody can get hurt. They came
Speaker 3: home later that night and the rapes attacked them. But
Speaker 3: that's what was going on then. But once the FBI
Speaker 3: got involved and did have their meetings and did put
Speaker 3: it out there, I thought, this is going to open
Speaker 3: it up, and now maybe we can get something. And
Speaker 3: again with the FBI, it doesn't matter what county or
Speaker 3: what state even they do have that cooperation and we
Speaker 3: weren't having that cooperation among departments. So I thought this
Speaker 3: was going to open it up and going to help.
Speaker 3: And the big thing was that because Paul Hole stayed
Speaker 3: with it because of the DNA, that's what kept it
Speaker 3: going and he kept trying to connect. And then when
Speaker 3: we got into the familial DNA. Now, since this has happened,
Speaker 3: I've heard of fifteen cold cases that have been closed
Speaker 3: now because of DNA. So we're going in the right direction.
Speaker 3: My feeling all along, I've said this many times that
Speaker 3: when a baby's born, if you put that DNA in
Speaker 3: the system, is going to protect that child. If it's
Speaker 3: a body that's found later, you're going to be able
Speaker 3: to identify it and if it's kidnapped or killed or whatever,
Speaker 3: and it may even help cut back on crime. But
Speaker 3: if it's out there, if it's in there, like fingerprints,
Speaker 3: I got fingerprints off a lamp one time and couldn't
Speaker 3: get it matched anywheres. And then when I got working
Speaker 3: with Larry Poole gave him that fingerprint, he did get
Speaker 3: it matched and the person was dead and he went
Speaker 3: back and exhumed the body and got the DNA and
Speaker 3: proved that it was not our rapist. But things like
Speaker 3: that can work, and if you can do it with fingerprints,
Speaker 3: DNA is even more important. But too many people think
Speaker 3: that's a yeah, that's a private thing.
Speaker 4: So I agree with you too about the when right
Speaker 4: away when they did this through like I mentioned, just
Speaker 4: what regular citizens would be able to do a genealogy
Speaker 4: site like ancestry dot com if for reference to say,
Speaker 4: look for relatives for your your own family tree. And
Speaker 4: this is what law enforcement did be able to rest
Speaker 4: DiAngelo and solve these cases. Like you say, another fifteen
Speaker 4: cold cases, and that's incredible, and this is these are
Speaker 4: kind of slam Dunk. If there is such a thing
Speaker 4: kind of trials, it's pretty hard to dispute. It's going
Speaker 4: to be impossible for him to dispute this at trial
Speaker 4: with so it's more slam Dunk would say in that,
Speaker 4: in that DNA and that privacy that you mentioned, I
Speaker 4: agree with you that for the good of again law enforcement,
Speaker 4: really the only thing and the best thing that has
Speaker 4: happened in the judicial system is the advent of DNA.
Speaker 4: So the idea that they couldn't go into a private
Speaker 4: genealogy site to be able to search for that, I
Speaker 4: think that you given these kinds of results, privacy has
Speaker 4: to be I hate to say that, but I can't
Speaker 4: be fixed on the idea of privacy always under any circumstances.
Speaker 4: So I do agree with you it could be a
Speaker 4: very very good tool. Then again, we'd get into the
Speaker 4: subject of the effectiveness efficacy of some of these databases
Speaker 4: and compliance to put material into the database. Right.
Speaker 3: So, yes, Well, when I was working the cases, the
Speaker 3: only thing we had was secret status, and we knew
Speaker 3: that DeAngelo was a non secretor which Mitch couldn't get
Speaker 3: his blood from it, and that's how we eliminated a
Speaker 3: lot of people and uh, and some of 'em it
Speaker 3: took a lot, uh because they would get attorneys saying no, uh,
Speaker 3: you got to stay away from us. And and a
Speaker 3: couple of them I had to work on for a
Speaker 3: long time and U uh finally did get them to
Speaker 3: chew on some gauze and we eliminated them. But uh,
Speaker 3: it would have been so much easier if we had
Speaker 3: known anything about DNA at the time, and UH was
Speaker 3: able to do that. But uh, there are there are
Speaker 3: ways that you work at and you work on it
Speaker 3: and uh, like I said, Uh, we eliminated thousands of names,
Speaker 3: and there were different ways of doing it, and uh
Speaker 3: we uh did what we could. And UH, I'm just
Speaker 3: so so glad now for the victims and their families
Speaker 3: and know that hopefully within the next year they're going
Speaker 3: to find full closure and see what happens.
Speaker 4: What's very interesting too, is that the I think hopefully anyway,
Speaker 4: that the some of the glamour that comes with some
Speaker 4: of these killers, their status reverts and then they become
Speaker 4: mythical and glamorous in prison after these convictions. I think
Speaker 4: it's in everybody's the way he's been depicted, in the
Speaker 4: nature of his crimes that and I think just the
Speaker 4: and maybe I won't even mention it just out of
Speaker 4: respect for the audience, but that just about the description
Speaker 4: of him and his behavior crying, and there is nothing.
Speaker 4: It would seem only the insane would think that this
Speaker 4: guy was admirable in any way, the kind of person
Speaker 4: you would contact and the kind of person that would
Speaker 4: gain some kind of following. Don't you think this is
Speaker 4: well like, not the candidate for turning this into a
Speaker 4: sexy criminal post trial at all.
Speaker 3: No, it's like I said, with the doctor I dealt
Speaker 3: with at the Vacaville Medical Center and the rapist there.
Speaker 3: My feeling is that if when he goes to prison,
Speaker 3: the prisoners will hate him because the rapists that are
Speaker 3: in prison felt that they didn't hurt anybody. They committed crimes,
Speaker 3: but they didn't hurt anybody. But this person did and
Speaker 3: they're going to hate him. And because of who he
Speaker 3: is and what they learn about him, many of them
Speaker 3: in there would like to kill him. And for that reason,
Speaker 3: and so it's going to be very dangerous for him
Speaker 3: and it's going to have to be taken care of
Speaker 3: that way. But we know that because as in California,
Speaker 3: there's no death penalty that's going to work there. So
Speaker 3: he will be in prison for the rest of his life,
Speaker 3: and it's going to be a rough time for him
Speaker 3: in prison.
Speaker 4: The book Sudden Terror came out in twenty ten, and
Speaker 4: this intended purpose was to move this thing forward. Obviously,
Speaker 4: you were this book. Was the information gained that was
Speaker 4: contained in the book help people like Paul Holes. Paul
Speaker 4: Holes spoke to you extensively. You were not to depict
Speaker 4: it like you took him under your wing or but
Speaker 4: it was essential that Paul Holes speak to you and
Speaker 4: understand read this book and understand these cases. It was
Speaker 4: essential for him to do that. Not to give credit
Speaker 4: where credit was due, but it was essential that he
Speaker 4: read this and understand these cases and understand what you
Speaker 4: had to UH contribute to this case, wasn't it?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yes, and I and and like I said, I,
Speaker 3: I was working at the lab when when we first
Speaker 3: found out about this, and that's how he found out
Speaker 3: about me. UH. One of the UH people at the
Speaker 3: lab UH when he got involved in UH DNA said,
Speaker 3: UH told him that I was on the task force
Speaker 3: and said I would have the names of UH of
Speaker 3: victims and UH and if he contacted me, then then
Speaker 3: he could carry it on that way and that was very,
Speaker 3: very fortunate. And then when he was able to uh
Speaker 3: deal with Southern California with Orange County and joined the DNA,
Speaker 3: and then he stayed with it after that, and UH
Speaker 3: that's what uh what finalized this. Uh you had to
Speaker 3: have uh those to stay with it. And like I said,
Speaker 3: even though uh Larry Poole retired, he couldn't let it go.
Speaker 3: He had to stay with it. And right to the
Speaker 3: very end he was involved. And what people don't understand
Speaker 3: is that in law enforcement there's many times that these
Speaker 3: crimes get into your mind and you can't let it go.
Speaker 3: I had won in the crime lab a little fourteen
Speaker 3: year old that was kidnapped, raped and murdered, and I
Speaker 3: went out and processed the scene and then I had
Speaker 3: to go to the morgue and take the photograph of
Speaker 3: them working on her. And I was up on the
Speaker 3: ladder with my camera looking down and Cindy Waxman was
Speaker 3: her name at the time, and I couldn't deal with it.
Speaker 3: I told my partner, you got to take this one.
Speaker 3: I'll take the next five, but I can't deal with it.
Speaker 3: And we thought we knew who it was, but they
Speaker 3: could never prove it. And then after I retired and
Speaker 3: moved away, I get a Sabena to go to court.
Speaker 3: They arrested him and the DNA did work. So that
Speaker 3: is good.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's getting closure for you, Larry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't get it out of your mind and
Speaker 3: you stay with it.
Speaker 4: Well. I contend that this book, Sudden Terror, was what
Speaker 4: made these people recognize. You definitely instilled the fear, as
Speaker 4: you write, the fear that these people felt you felt.
Speaker 4: And from this book Sudden Terror, it captures that fear,
Speaker 4: that terror, and that was imparted to each and everyone
Speaker 4: that read it. All the detectives, all the civilians, all
Speaker 4: the people around you were influenced by your work and
Speaker 4: this contributed, as you did, to the capture of Joseph DiAngelo.
Speaker 4: So again, congratulations and congratulations on this book, Sudden Terror,
Speaker 4: now available on Kindle. So thank you very much Larry
Speaker 4: Crompton for coming on and talking about Sudden Terror, the
Speaker 4: true story of California's most infamous serial predator, Golden State
Speaker 4: Killer onsaka East Area Rapist. Thank you very much Larry
Speaker 4: Crompton for coming on doing this interview it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Dan, I really appreciate what you're doing.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. I hope to talk to you
Speaker 4: again real soon. Thank you very much. Larry, you have
Speaker 4: a great evening you too, Thanks, good night,