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See website for details. 37 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:33.079 Radio. 38 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:45.640 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 39 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:48.760 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 40 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:56.120 written about them. Geesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 41 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.840 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 42 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:04.480 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 43 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:19.919 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good Evening, the original comprehensive 44 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:23.080 case files of the East Area rapist who became known 45 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:27.479 as the Original Nightstalker. A serial rapist turned serial murder, 46 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.039 he held California in a grip of fear for far 47 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:34.280 too long. Larry Crompton tells us of the attacks that 48 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.479 began in northern California in nineteen seventy six that continued 49 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:42.439 on until nineteen eighty six that we know of. Prior 50 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.639 to Sacramento attacks, there was a serial prowler called the 51 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.719 Viselia Ransacker, with over one hundred and twenty five break 52 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:52.520 in prowlings under his belt. Detective Crompton had a feeling 53 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:54.759 all of the attacks were connected and tried to tell 54 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:59.719 jurisdictions across the state. Retired from Contra Costa County Department, 55 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:03.919 Larry has never quit searching for this serial predator. Now, 56 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:06.919 at long last, Joseph James DeAngelo is the face of 57 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:11.240 the man behind the mask. Presumed innocent until proven guilty, 58 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:13.560 The case appears to have been solved by a one 59 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:17.159 hundred percent DNA match. His name had become the Golden 60 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:21.199 State Killer. Now what we look for our answers. Hopefully 61 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.599 there are not more victims of this serial predator. This book, 62 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.879 originally released on paperback in twenty ten, was the first 63 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.439 book out on a case that no one was talking about. 64 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:35.479 Retired Lieutenant Crompton was compelled to write the story so 65 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:39.560 we would not forget Justice is on the way. At last. 66 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.960 The book they were featuring this evening is Sudden Terror, 67 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.879 The true story of California's most infamous serial predator, Golden 68 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:49.879 State Killer, Original night Stalker, a ka East Are Rapist, 69 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:54.759 with my special guest, author and retired Lieutenant Larry Crompton. 70 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.120 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 71 00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:58.879 this interview. Larry Crompton. 72 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:01.960 Thank you, Dan, I appreciate this. 73 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.039 Thank you very much. I really appreciate this, and this 74 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:10.000 is going to be a real treat for the audience. Congratulations, 75 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:15.840 by the way, on this incredible event for law enforcement 76 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:22.079 in terms of America, a huge moment in history, never 77 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:27.000 let alone true crime history. Congratulations on your involvement, your persistence, 78 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:32.959 your dedication to this case. Congratulations on this arrest. 79 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.439 Well, thank you. It took a long time to get there, 80 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.639 but when it did, it found closure for a lot 81 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.319 of victims in their families, and that's what it was 82 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:45.800 all about. 83 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.480 Yeah, it's amazing we use that word. So many people 84 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.680 use that word closure, but I think this is as 85 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:54.240 you it's an appropriate to be able to use that word, 86 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.720 and I think even more closure will come as this 87 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:03.639 person di'angelo goes trial eventually, soon, When I say eventually, 88 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:07.720 April twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, as you say, forty two 89 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:12.360 years later, Joseph James DeAngelo, seventy two years old was arrested. 90 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:18.240 Where were you? How did you get notified? And maybe 91 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:23.680 just for background, did you know before this? But on 92 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:26.720 the day April twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, how did you 93 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.959 get the news? Who gave you the news? And tell 94 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:31.959 us your reaction? 95 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:41.199 Well, what happened? About nine o'clock that night, I was 96 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:46.240 contacted by Richard Shelby, and Richard was on the Task 97 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.600 Force in Sacramento and said that there was a rumor 98 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:55.079 that he was arrested and I was in jail, and 99 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.920 wanted to know if I had heard about it, and 100 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:02.759 I said no, I hadn't, but I will check. And 101 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:07.879 I called Larry Pool, the sergeant that I had met 102 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.040 with the Orange County Task Force, and asked him if 103 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:14.560 he had heard, and he said no, I hadn't, but 104 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.839 he said, let me check. So he called me back 105 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:22.079 about fifteen minutes later and said it is true. He 106 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:27.639 was arrested tonight and he is in custody, and yes, 107 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:31.639 And I couldn't sleep that night, I couldn't close my eyes. 108 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:38.279 It was just it was so awesome that, after all 109 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:40.439 these years that had happened. 110 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:47.160 Yeah, I like you say, it didn't sleep that night. 111 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:53.480 The next day you were obviously anxious and excited and 112 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:58.000 definitely curious to the details. What did you find out 113 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.279 in the next day, in the following days, what did 114 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:07.120 you find out about this D'Angelo and his arrest? What 115 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:07.920 did you find out? 116 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.040 Well, it took a while for me to find out. 117 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:15.639 Obviously I was retired and was still in contact with 118 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.279 some of them. But the night that I found out 119 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:24.120 about it, I contacted Jane Carson, she was the fifth 120 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:29.879 victim in Sacramento, and told her that he had been arrested, 121 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:36.279 and she was in tears. So I had to find 122 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:42.120 out as much as I could. But I was in 123 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.959 contact with Sergeant Ken Clark in Sacramento, and he told 124 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:50.199 me that they had been watching him for a week 125 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:58.759 and the DNA, the familial DNA, had connected several and 126 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:02.240 they narrowed it down to and said that then they 127 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:08.480 narrowed it down to one, and that one obviously was Joseph, 128 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:12.759 And they said they followed him for a week and 129 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:17.319 they watched them and then they got some more DNA 130 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:22.720 off of him and that mashed up even more. And 131 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:29.399 then they videotaped them and then they waited for him 132 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:31.600 until he come out of the house, and then they 133 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.919 arrested him as he come out, and like I said 134 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.279 at that time, that was the best way to do it, 135 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.360 because what he wanted to do was to go back 136 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:45.360 in the house and obviously get a gun. When I 137 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.679 was working the case, I had talked to psychiatrists and 138 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:53.759 other people that were dealing with rapists, and what they 139 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.279 told me was that if you come across him before 140 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:59.279 he commits a crime, you're never going to put it together. 141 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.360 Is going to be so good that you'll never know. 142 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.240 If you come across him after he commits a crime, 143 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.200 he will kill you or he will kill himself, but 144 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:15.600 he won't be taken. And I lived with that thought 145 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.000 all those years, and then when I saw how they 146 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.840 did it and the way they did it, I thought, yep, 147 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:28.360 psychiatrists were right on course, they knew what he was, 148 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:34.399 so it was exciting to know how they did it. 149 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.919 And then I saw him when saw him when he 150 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:42.039 went into court the first time and in the wheelchair, 151 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:47.360 and then once he found out what they knew, about him. 152 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:52.559 Things have changed, and I still don't know when he's 153 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:57.080 going to ever say anything. And hopefully we'll learn from 154 00:09:57.159 --> 00:09:59.960 him what we need to be looking for when we 155 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:01.399 come across somebody like him. 156 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:08.799 HM, what was the I talked to our mutual friend 157 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:12.879 and Penn and and she has written extensively about this 158 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:18.440 case in her involvement with her aunt and uncle Lyman 159 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:24.679 and Charlene Smith, and she spoke extensively of the support 160 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:30.919 that she had through this with specifically you in terms 161 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:35.799 of your empathy and compassion and just understanding about what 162 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:39.840 it would be like and the answers that these people 163 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:42.639 needed to have even if there is not an answer, 164 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:46.759 but or the reassurances. Other than Jane Carson, and I 165 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:53.279 mentioned Lori, Anne and Penn Aka, how many of the 166 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:58.679 victims did you interact with and for how long? Tell 167 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:02.200 us a little bit more about that contact with those 168 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:03.879 people and what that was like. 169 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:12.440 Well, when I was on television one time and then 170 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.879 I wrote the book and I was contacted by Jane Carson, 171 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:21.759 and I had a lot of talks with her and 172 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:25.399 stayed with her, and I told her that she was 173 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.960 a survivor, and I said, your history and what you 174 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:31.679 went through. You need to put that in a book 175 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.120 and get it out. And it's not just for rape victims, 176 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:39.200 it's for victims of any crime. And what she went 177 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:42.480 through and how she dealt with it and what she 178 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:48.600 became was important. So she did. She wrote wrote her book, 179 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.960 Frozen in Fear, and it is fantastic. And then I 180 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.799 was also able to be in contact with Michelle Cruz, 181 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:05.039 she's sister of Janelle Cruz, the young lady that was murdered, 182 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:10.399 and Debbie Domingo, the daughter of Sherry Domingo, and we've 183 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:17.440 stayed in contact, and there really are the only victims 184 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:23.600 and families that I've stayed in contact with continually. And 185 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:29.399 others I have dealt with, but not the same way 186 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:33.159 that I have with these, and seeing what they went 187 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:39.919 through and how they dealt with it, and it just 188 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.480 made it so that I had to stay with it 189 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.799 because I saw what they went through and what they needed. 190 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.679 Over all these years. What could you What could you 191 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:58.840 say to them that would keep them repeatedly calling you? 192 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:04.559 What would and not be critical as many people would do, 193 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.720 understandably that that there hadn't been arrest, Why not why 194 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.600 not tell us? What should you possibly say to these people, 195 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.759 and how did what was the tone of these conversations 196 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:19.399 to be able to keep these people at least hoping well. 197 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:24.399 I would tell them I knew that the investigations were ongoing, 198 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.919 and that the ones that were that were involved at 199 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:36.399 that time were one hundred percent into it and wanted 200 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.440 this close, and they wanted it closed for the victims 201 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.120 and their families. And they went through the same thing 202 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:48.240 I did. For many years. I blamed myself and thought 203 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.360 I needed to get this closed. I needed, I needed, 204 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:54.600 and then it came to me, it wasn't about me. 205 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:57.919 This is about the victims and their families. So that's 206 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.840 what I would talk to them about, about how they 207 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:07.200 were dealing with it and how strong they were, and 208 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.440 that those that were involved and were working on it 209 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:17.799 were doing everything they could and that I just couldn't 210 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.519 give it up and told him that I had to 211 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:26.320 stay with it and anything that I could do for them, 212 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:31.679 I would, And any time I heard anything, I made 213 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.360 sure that it was given to Sacramento or to Larry 214 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.039 Pool down in Orange County to follow up on. And 215 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.279 then I got involved with three civilians down in Sacramento 216 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:49.720 that were also involved in the case cases, and they 217 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.360 were involved because they were in the area when he 218 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.039 was hitting and then they saw me on TV and 219 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.639 saw my book and got it. So I was in 220 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.360 con with them, and I knew that they had such 221 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.200 a close contact with Sacramento Sheriff's Office, with the detectives there, 222 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.639 So anything that I had, I made sure that I 223 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:16.200 got to them and they could work on it and 224 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:23.159 get information back to me. And those three kept the 225 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:27.759 case going and would not give up on it. And 226 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:34.480 Melanie Barbo and Kay Gilbraith, Robert Neville, they just were 227 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:38.440 so involved in this that they were the ones that 228 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.279 kept the case going. They just wouldn't let it go 229 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.879 and they made sure that Sacramento was on top of 230 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.840 everything that they come up with. So what I've said 231 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:53.240 all along, law enforcement is not going to be solving 232 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:58.720 crimes by themselves. They need the civilians to be involved. 233 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:03.440 And that's what happened here and it was because of 234 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:08.360 that that it was finally solved. And have to give 235 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:14.480 credit to those people that stayed with it. And Richard Shelby, 236 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.159 the retired detective from Sacramento, couldn't give up on it. 237 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:27.240 He put his book out and just Paul Hol's criminalists 238 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:32.320 from Sacramento or from Contra Costa. He stayed with it, 239 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:37.080 and Larry Poole couldn't give up on it. Ken Clark, 240 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:43.440 Paul Belly from Sacramento, they stayed with it. So it 241 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.679 was that that finally solved this case. 242 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:52.559 They could have just looked at your book that you 243 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.679 published in twenty ten, but that's not the extent of 244 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:02.159 your input in this case. And with those people like 245 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.799 Pool and Paul Holes that you mentioned from the FBI 246 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:12.720 in Contra Costa County, tell us more about this relationship 247 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.440 with Paul Holes and at least when he came on 248 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:19.160 board and his interest in this case and your at 249 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.119 least assistance in helping him understand this case. 250 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:29.799 Well, what happened was Jim Evans was the detective in 251 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:34.480 Sacramento that I worked with very close. He came down 252 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.640 to our county and told us about the East Area 253 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.839 rapist and at that time there had been thirty seven 254 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:48.160 attacks and we knew nothing about it. And so I 255 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:53.279 started working with Jim Evans. And then Jim called me 256 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.960 one time and he said that he heard of a 257 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:01.920 double homicide down in Santa Barbara and said that he 258 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.319 called Santa Barbara, and they said, don't know what you're 259 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.480 talking about, and so he ran it by me. So 260 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:13.200 I called Santa Barbara and I got the same thing back, that, no, 261 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.440 we don't know what you're talking about. We have nothing 262 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:20.559 like that. So it just so happened that the sheriff 263 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.319 sent me down to a class down in San Diego 264 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:25.920 at the university, and there happened to be a Santa 265 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.240 Barbara officer in the class, and I got talking to 266 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:31.599 him and he said, oh, yeah, we did. We had 267 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:37.039 a double homicide and he said, Robert Offerman and Deborah Manning. 268 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.799 And he said, and just before that, we had an 269 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:43.599 attempted rape where the people got away. And I said 270 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.559 what and he said yeah. And I said, well, gosh, 271 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.559 we knew nothing about that. So I got those reports 272 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.359 and Jim Bevans and I went over them and we 273 00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:00.400 in our minds, yes, their murder, their attempted rapist was 274 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.880 our rapist, but nobody would believe us, and nobody wanted 275 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.160 to get involved his apartment. My department said, no, he's 276 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.680 left our area, he's no longer ours, and no, it's 277 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:21.200 not the same person. So what happened was in two 278 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:25.960 thousand it was. Paul Hols called me and said that 279 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:28.240 he heard that I had been on the East Area 280 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.160 Rapist Task Force, and he said, I'm a DNA expert 281 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.319 here at the lab, and he said, if you can 282 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.559 give me some names, I'll do the DNA because back 283 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.039 then we didn't have DNA when all this was going on, 284 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.279 and we only knew that it was the same person 285 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.359 committing the rapes because of the way that he did it, 286 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.200 and there was no doubt in our minds that. But 287 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.079 I gave him three names and he called me back 288 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.559 a while later and said, yeah, I joined two of them. 289 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.599 And then he called me back another month later and said, yeah, 290 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:08.079 all three of them have the same DNA. So I said, okay, Paul, 291 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:12.559 I know that down in southern California, I know of 292 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:17.119 five homicides, and I said, I can't get any cooperation, 293 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.680 but if you can get a criminalist down there that 294 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.480 will work with you, I know they have evidence, and 295 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:28.759 I know that their murderer is our rapist. And I said, 296 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:30.920 if you can get them to cooperate with you, I 297 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.400 know it's there. So he called me back about seven 298 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:38.000 months later and he said, no, they didn't have five homicides, 299 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.880 said they had ten and we just joined six of them, 300 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:45.559 so that was exciting. And he said that Orange County 301 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:49.200 wanted me to fly down there and talk to them. 302 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:55.000 So I contacted Orange County and the sheriff wanted me 303 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.759 to come down and I told him, I said, I 304 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:05.160 have all the reports of Northern California attacks. And I said, 305 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:07.759 if you want, you can send your detective up here. 306 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.880 I have the contact up here. We can go to 307 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.240 the sheriff's department and get copies of them. And he said, no, 308 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.319 we want you down here. He said, we'll pay to 309 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.480 have you and all the reports. So I flew down 310 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:23.599 there with them and met with their task force and 311 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.400 stayed there for a couple of weeks going over everything. 312 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.559 And that opened up the investigation because they didn't know 313 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.640 who they were looking for or what type of a 314 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.000 person they were looking for. But after looking at the 315 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.079 reports from Northern California, it gave him a better idea. 316 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:44.599 And I didn't know at the time, but they had 317 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.319 already done DNA on some of theirs down there prior 318 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:53.160 to that, and so that part was already there and 319 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:57.720 it was just a matter of connecting it. And then 320 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.440 trying to find out who that would connect too. But 321 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.839 that got the investigation going and opened it up north 322 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.200 and south, and that really helped. 323 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:16.920 After this, you also employ every other strategy to be 324 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:21.079 able to move this investigation forward, like you say, with 325 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:24.519 the FBI, and with that connection and the DNA connection, 326 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:32.319 it becomes much more cohesive and much more viable investigation 327 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:39.279 for everyone. When you were doing other things like A 328 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:42.640 and E reached out to you Bill Curtis and Cold 329 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:46.799 Case Files and then later some other television programs and 330 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.359 then so tell us a little bit about that outreach 331 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.119 and what the purpose of that was and why you 332 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:54.559 were wanted to be involved with that, and before we 333 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:58.400 talk about other things like reaching out to Kim Rosmo, 334 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.000 geographical profiler. 335 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.720 Yeah, well, it was with me. I couldn't get it 336 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:06.519 out of my mind. I had to stay with it, 337 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:14.640 and I was contacted by uh several television programs and 338 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:21.519 radio and UH newspaper and matter of fact, Michelle McNamara 339 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:25.680 contacted me and UH she did a a thing for 340 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:30.920 a magazine on me, and so that opened it up 341 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.640 so that I was contacted by many people, and UH 342 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:41.799 really got involved in it that way, and I just 343 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:46.519 wanted it to keep on going, and UH couldn't let 344 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:52.359 it die. And it was just one of those things 345 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.599 that UH stayed in my mind. And like I said, UH, 346 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.960 I kept thinking that Uh I was supposed to cl 347 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.359 was that case. I was supposed to catch him, and 348 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:05.440 I failed, and I failed, And then it finally dawned 349 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.119 on me that it wasn't about me. It was about 350 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:12.279 the victims and their families. So anything and everything that 351 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:16.799 I could do, I stayed with it. And I was very, 352 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.799 very fortunate to be able to work with Larry Poole 353 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:28.359 and Ken Clark and Paul Belly, and with those three 354 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.640 working the case at the same time, I knew that 355 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.960 there was a good chance that it would eventually be solved. 356 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.079 You talk about I mentioned Ken Rosmo or Kim Rosmo 357 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:49.319 pardon me, you have in the book which is rereading 358 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:55.039 it again after interviewing you in twenty twelve that it's 359 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:59.920 very interesting what through his geographical profiling, using zip codes 360 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:05.240 and that information into a program and trying to pinpoint 361 00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:11.279 where the perpetrator was residing during those attacks. It was 362 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:16.920 interesting to see what he said in light of DeAngelo's arrest. 363 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.880 Your idea that didn't you believe he still probably resided 364 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:27.400 in Sacramento. What is it interesting to see what Kim 365 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:31.640 Rosmo had deduced so long ago? In two thousand and. 366 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:37.400 Three, Oh yes, I was contacted by Mike Weymouth, who 367 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.119 was a detective with Contracosta, and he and I had 368 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.920 worked together, and he was in patrol when I was 369 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:47.519 on the task force. And Mike is the one that 370 00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:52.200 contacted me and told me about Kim Rosmo and said 371 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.960 that he was an excellent person to deal with this. 372 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.640 And Kim did put a lot of time into it 373 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:06.599 and felt the areas where he would be, And in 374 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.839 all those years, I felt that he was still in Sacramento. 375 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.240 I couldn't get out out of my mind that he 376 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.799 was in Sacramento, but couldn't come up with any any 377 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:25.079 proof or anything else. But with what Kim decided him, 378 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:31.000 what he showed and what he gave me, everything just fit. 379 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:36.519 And thought that because of that we'd be able to 380 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:43.079 find out something. But because of the way that some 381 00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:48.200 things go, we couldn't get names or anything else from 382 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:54.319 different phone calls and things like that. But it still 383 00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:58.119 still helped, and it narrowed it down to areas and 384 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:04.200 he felt the same way I did that that d' angelo, 385 00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:07.599 even though we didn't know who D'Angelo was, that he 386 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:15.640 was in Sacramento and worked out that way. 387 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:21.000 You write in the book, well, before you know who 388 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:24.960 is going to be the perpetrator, that the police departments 389 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:30.720 are praying and hoping that it's not a member of 390 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:36.160 law enforcement that's the perpetrator. In this you're a member 391 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.400 of law enforcement. So I mean, in the light of this, 392 00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:44.079 this is a victory. This is an incredible victory. How 393 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.799 surprising was it for you? I mean in the book 394 00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.759 you talk about that it looks like you've narrowed it 395 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:51.799 down that he has military training, and you give the 396 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.240 evidence for that, and that's been discussed, But how surprised 397 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.440 were you that he was a police officer? And just 398 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:02.519 what was your response when you found that out? Would 399 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:02.880 you think? 400 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:07.799 Well, to be honest with you, it didn't affect me 401 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.359