Speaker 1: And I remember I was watching go back through the
back patio, and when I turned back around to look
through the frosted glass, I saw the big silhouette like this,
and then when I turned made eye contact. He went,
we talk about creepy everywhere I can find the blind
I coosed it.
Speaker 2: The infinite complaint people went to and pro thearth about
their little affairs, serene and the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and space.
Speaker 3: On this episode of Into the Fray, I welcome Courts
on with me, and courts is in Texas. But courts
it looks like we are going to be talking about
Bigfoot in Bolt, Texas and Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: Right, that's correct?
Speaker 3: Awesome, Well, thank you so much for doing this. I
just have the beautiful bullet point list that you sent me,
so I don't have any details of what's about to
go down, which I'm very excited about. But wherever you
want to start, and however much background you want to
give on yourself, and you know how you got interested
in Bigfoot. All that good stuff is up to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'll go ahead and just kind of how
I got started in this, and just real quick. Back
when I was like eight or nine, I went to
a book fair and I saw I had to get
a couple of books, and so I saw a book
about Bigfoot and NeSSI and it was it was a
lot of the stories in this book are probably famous
ones you probably heard before, and a few others. And
then he gets to half the book and then it
goes in and then another author gets into NeSSI stories.
And when I was eight and nine, I actually I
actually didn't think this was actually a minute. I actually
thought these are just creatures that just lived in the
forest up in the Pacific northwest, right. And what's cool
is I was able on eBay to find that book
after since the nineteen I had lost it and this
is the book who wrote.
Speaker 3: That I have saw that somewhere online before.
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's two authors. Was Angelo Riskkiati Riskyati risk
Scott R E R E S C I N I
T I I. I think it's Italian.
Speaker 3: That sounds close well the way you said it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then uh and then uh uh. Dean Damon
is the guy that wrote the Nessy Stories and yeah,
what's the title.
Speaker 3: Just for everybody listening, they.
Speaker 1: Put in NeSSI two mysterious monsters I love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, straight to the point.
Speaker 1: Right, this was this is what launched my interest in it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: So, uh, back in I have had I've always like
had an interest in like, you know, the the unknown
and monsters and paranormal and and uh, you know, we
in college we used to let's go find this place
that's haunted, you know, and all this other stuff. And
you know, every now and then I get a story about,
you know, something someone experiencing, something happening in the woods
and and stuff like that. So I never researched into it.
I never got boots on the ground in the field.
I didn't know where to start, you know. In nineteen
ninety three, I believe, when I had moved down here
to Texas from Illinois, and I met a few you know,
I had some high school new high school friends here,
and I had a friend that lived near up near
the Red River near Callisburg in that region and that
and then off of Highway eighty two. It's it's very
it's probably a little bit more developed now, but it's
it's there's some remote areas out there, and he his
family bought some land right by this this infamous eighteen
ninety three bridge. And when I moved here, and I
had talked about talk to people about that bridge because
it's creepy. It's a little scaffolding bridges. And when he
went over, first of all, it's a dirt road, the lonely,
it's it makes you feel uncomfortable. And the vegetation is
real tight out there, the creek system, and when you
go over this bridge, it's just you know, it just
rumbles and just it's spooky. And I started talking to
people about that because I was new here. I was
from Illinois, and people are like, don't go over that
place at night. That place is home, and you know,
it's all the paranlems, there's a monster that lives out there,
you know, all the all the high school, you know
stories of that place. And of course, you know, I
was like, oh, this is kind of interesting. But my
friend moved out there. They bought some land. They moved
from Whitesburrow out there to this land, and you had
to go over that bridge, and then you took a
turn to this little trail that got even more spookier
and that's where they had their trailer and they lived
out there, and they had they had a good little
patch of land, the clear cut little I guess, little
roads through there, through the dense fot, you know, through
the dense woods, and they had a they had a
camp pit that they would enjoy at night and stuff.
I got a call one one one day from my
friend and he said he had to come home. He
was working at the Sherman and Pigley Wiggie, and he
he said, I had to go home early last night
before closing because something happened out in my land. And
I said, well, what happened? And he said, well, my
brother uh and cousin we're out at the at the
at the camp with the little burn pit. I guess
it was a camp pit, you know, about one hundred
meters from the house and having kicking back, having some beers,
you know, because that's it's in the it's remote, it's
you know, there's the nearest neighbors like a mile away.
And they're sitting there and they heard some walking behind
them and they turned around, both of them, and what
they saw. What they see, he said, what they saw
was a seven and a half foot hair covered creature
and just walking out of the woods toward them, out
of the tree line about you know, forty meters back.
So they grabbed the shot and fired at it. He
swears to god he hit it right in the chest
with buckshot. It screams and runs back into the woods. Now,
my friends said when he got out there, they had
called county after the incident, and so when he got
out there, there was a long line of state game wardens,
Cook County sheriff, Cook County game warden, I think maybe
even one from Love County across the Red River. He
got out there and they said everyone was very much
on high alert. There was a blood They collected a
blood sample from the splatter on the tree or whatever
like that. They never got back with them about what
it was. So that was my first indication, my first
you know, of bigfoots here in Texas. I thought, I
always thought this was like a Pacific Northwest thing, but
that that signified the stories the people had here in
here in North Texas about bigfoots. So I put that
incident on the back burner from for years and years
and years, and then one one, uh, I think one
one year when I was back visiting from college. I
decided I thought I got thinking about that incident because
his nearest neighbor said that must have been the black
bear that lives around here, because he was told I've
tracked black bear by his by his footprints, and I
attracted to its den, and I got thinking about it
one night in two thousand and three, and I said,
I don't think black I mean, I may be wrong,
I don't. I don't know too much about about black bears,
but I don't think they make dens here and here
in Texas, I don't have a den they go to.
And I got thinking about it, and from what it
sounds like, maybe that guy found a tree structure or
something like that built by the bigfoots. He might it
might have been, you know, something like that. He thought
it was a black bear. So so I got after that,
I got restructuring, I got, I got. I started looking
up online about bigfoot reports in Texas, and that's what
led me to I think at the time it was
the Tea. It was Craig Woolheater and and his group
that was the what is what is there? I think
they called the wood Ape Conservatory. Now they're called something
different back then, Yeah, Texas, but something. And I got
reading all the reports and sure enough, I look at
Cook County and Grayson County, I'm like, holy crap. You know,
there's a lot of reports and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Were there any reports around that time in ninety three
when that incident happened with your friend.
Speaker 1: No, but they were a several from that exact same
spot of the eighteen ninety three bridge. There's one lady
that had contacted them because of her and he's a
he was a biology teacher at Callisburg, which is right
out there, and she said that she was talking to
her teacher here to her teacher, a biology teacher, was
telling her about how he would go out to that
same bridge to have some beers and they would come
up on around the bend and then there would be
some big monkey creature ape creature, you know, shaking a
branch or something and disappear into the woods. There's another
one where they were out there and they heard this
thing moving through the woods off you know, they're standing
on the bridge, and then they spotlighted this thing and
they of course they took their shotguns and shot at
it and it ran off. So there's like two or
three four instance from that same spot, from that same bridge.
Speaker 3: Do you recall if your friend said that after he
shot it, that he felt like, I mean, taking buckshot
to the chest is bad news, right? So I guess
two parts, how far does he guess he was away
from the Bigfoot? And does he feel like it would
have been fatal to it means such a large creature.
Speaker 1: Right right? I think because you know, he had a
When you're out there in that kind of remote area,
I mean, you have like bob kats and coyotes, and
you know, it's just that's just I was a skippy
boy from Illinois and they were you know, they these
my friends were. They were true rednecks. I mean that's okay.
I mean that's that's just how I was. The culture
that I was trying to get used to here. You know, like,
why would you bring a shotgun out and mill it woods?
Like yeah wow? But they just had that little shot
that I was. It may have been a four I
can't remember the twelve gauge. I think it was a
twelve gage. He could have been a four ten, I
don't know, but it was close enough. You know, they
you know, they they reacted. It was a reaction thing.
They looked, they turned around, they saw that they had
a lot of fear in them, and I don't know
what its intent was, but they grabbed the shotgun and
went for center mass. So I don't did much to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. I mean, because we've
heard people say they've had even rifles for taking down larger,
known proven animals like elk and things. And they were
kind of going, well, I'm gonna be really really quiet
where I am sitting right now, because even what I
have is I don't feel in my gun this is
gonna help me if there's a price, if it notices
me and decides I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Mess you up right right. And I have, like, there's
two other instances that I know of that either people
I know or involved my group that involved gunshots. And
it seems to be on all three of these, but
the one I just told you about, and then the
other two, it seems to be that they get shot,
they react, and then they run and they don't ever
see them again, you know. And I always tell people, well,
it's kind of a win win situation. It's like, well,
well it technically didn't take it down, but it does
buy you some time to get out of there. But
I can I can certainly amount to hunters when they're
sitting in their blines because I've I've read the stories.
They're like, Nope, I am not even going to try it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just going I am a mouse. I am
a mouse right now. I'm a mouse. I'm gonna be
very cool.
Speaker 1: Don't see me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not going to see me. Also, Quartz, it
seems like just like down in Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, they
seem a little grumpier in certain areas of the country
and a little bit more in your face and a
little less just simply variistic where they just want to
watch from afar. They don't quite mind as much to
just kind of pop out and see what's doing or go, hey,
you're in my area, So I'm going to let you know.
Speaker 1: About that, especially in Oklahoma. Yeah, they're cranky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're grumpy. Maybe it's the weather of the humidity,
the heat. You know, who knows, like go north, go
to the Pacific Northwest guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Like I don't know what it was
because I remember when uh, you know, kind of getting
into my research when I started, you know, when I
when I started researching online. Then I then I started
going out because I found a couple of reports at
Lake Rae Roberts, where I go to at the time
to go do photography all the time, and I didn't
really think much of it until one day one morning,
I pushed into an area that's off it's an area
that's closed now, but it's the observation point high Controler
areas closed now, but at the time, like I pushed
the opposite way east into an area that's not you know,
it's an unexplored area that people don't go to. And
I ended up finding basically a tree structure and it
was all it was all woven. It was it was gnarly,
it was popped off from a tree that was close by,
and it was well woven and stuff like that. And
you could see this kind of stuff all built along
the hillside overlooking where people would go swimming at and
stuff like that. So that was the start of my
research out there at Lake Gray Roberts. And what really
sold me before I this is long before this is
several months before I even had my Maximon encounter. I
would go out there, and I would do knocks and
stuff like that, you know, the usual thing. But I
decided one time to park in the parking lot instead
of going up and hiking down through the gully and
then back up you know from you on the opposite
side of the I decided just to park there at
the parking lot and go directly through the field, which
will which would lead me to where I was finding
all that stuff. So I was coming in a completely
different way. I wasn't taking the path down to the
cove and then back up again, coming back a completely
different way.
Speaker 5: And I saw.
Speaker 1: Having a little camera with me, and I saw some
kind of you know, it looked like a structure and whatever.
I was about to investigate it and maybe take some pictures,
get my camera out, and all of a sudden, I
hear the loudest from I guess maybe seventy five yards
away or it was close, but he was like it
sounded like this like that, and it was I call
it the ho ho ho vocalization. The only person that
I've ever heard of it's heard that vocalization is a
survivorn man.
Speaker 3: Uh. That's his name, Less Stroud, That's.
Speaker 1: Stroud because he he did. He mimicked that same vocalization
that he heard up in the hill in Alaska, and
I went, when I heard him do that vocalization, I went,
you know so, but it scared the Jesus on because
you could you could feel it in your chest. It
was about seventy five eighty yards away from some were
in the woods. But it sounded very abrupt, like it
was almost trying to warn the others or something. But
it was almost like a human voice with the octave
down low and just super broadcast. It was just you know,
in your chest.
Speaker 3: And how could a person do that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: How could a person make you feel it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I could feel it in my chest, and that's
why I tell people like it wasn't a person. So
I grabbed my stuff and I high tailed it back
to the tree line close to where the field was
before you get to the parking lot. I stopped and
I hung out there for a good forty five minutes actually,
just to see, you know, now that I was in
a more of a safer spot. I was just kind
of like hanging out and I would need little calls.
I'd be like, you know, just kind of back at it,
and you could hear. They wouldn't come close. They would
just you could hear walking and sticks breaking and you
know like that. That was the same day. I think
I was there for like twenty minutes. I heard a
dog barking. It was coming from my right because the
woods wrapped around to my like here if that was here,
the woods wrapped around this way, and I heard this.
I don't know where that dog came from, but all
of a sudden I heard and then no more dog.
Then I heard a series of knocks on the tree
like it was and then I heard I can knock
back further where I heard the dog get. So I'm
guessing that they had a stray dog that they took.
Speaker 3: So this Lake Ray Roberts, is it in the middle
of some kind of a big national park or a preserve.
Is there houses near this area?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there are some few houses near there,
but it's you know, there's North Texas and then there's
this Lake Ray Roberts, and then a dam, and then
there is a twelve month from the dam downward to Denton,
where I live. There is a twelve mile green belt
that's lightly populated. It's a green belt. It's been selected
as a green bay as a river, and then a
bike path that you can buy. You can actually bike
from laquer Roberts all the way down to the dtton
three eighty, so it's the three eighty green Belt. I
got interesting. Somebody sent me an article not long long ago.
It's back in the maybe early nineties. The people were
kayaking down down the three eighty green Belt because you
can kayak. You can put your kayak in by the
dam and then you can just kayak on down. And
there's my friend goes, hey, man, you got to check
out this news story. So he sent me the article.
It was I guess early two thousands, maybe nineteen nineties
or something. To get up to look back up again,
but it was these two people were kayaking down and
they had they got to a part where they had
to get the kayaks out and then go around and
falling tree and then get put the kayaks back in.
And when they did, they saw a series of eighteen
inch prints in the clay where they're on the shoreline.
So I was like, oh wow, that's cool. So that
was that was a little So they're they're in the
they're in that green belt area, and I always you know,
I always said that it might actually be the same
group of them that's that's out there at Lake Great Roberts.
So because there's a there's a family, a family unit out.
Speaker 3: There, do you think that they stay there all year
round or do you think they move quite a bit.
Speaker 1: I think that they move around in the area, but
they still use that area all year round. The way
that I'll shoot some homage to the late David Hawley,
which is the founder of the Timberline big Foot Research
group that I got with for you know, I was
a member of for the past twenty years, and David
David Hollway explained it like this, here's the lake, here's
our area. This is there, this is where we are.
In the fall, we use up every resource, eat every critter,
a deer, whatever we can get a hold of. When
that area dries up, we move here maybe by the spring,
depending on what type type of wake it is. You know,
there's not there's areas from Laker Roberts that are a
very big open prairie. So I'm just you know, considering
the areas that are, you know, and then so for them,
that area might dry up and so they'll go south
into the green Belt for a couple of months and
maybe eat, just visit the area closer to the national
or the state park area, the remote area during the nighttime.
So it seems that there's activity there at night when
people are not there. Back in twenty eleven, I put
out I decided just to put out an audio recorder
off trail, and I have the recording about ten thirty
at night of something on clearly on two legs. And
and you know, the place is closed. This trail is closed.
It's you know, the campgrounds across the across the cove.
So this camp this this trail is closed. This is
not a place that people will be walking around at night.
Plus it's off trail, right, So something walks up and
I'll have if I can when I find I can
send it to you. Sometimes something walks, it's getting closer,
it's on two feet, and it walks and it stops
when it sees the recorder on the ground because it
was leaning up next to a tree with a little
red light on it. And it according to my my
bigfoot research friend that's part of the Timberline group, he says,
it sounds like picked it up because you hear the
you know when when a microphone hits wind, so you
can hear and then you hear something licking the recorder
and then it puts it back down and then you
here it just walks off. It's one of the best
recordings ever. I love it.
Speaker 3: That's a good one. I haven't heard. I don't think
I've heard anyone yet describe something like that where it's
a sniff and then it's trying to lick it to
really see what's doing.
Speaker 1: If you want, I can send you. I'll get that
right isolated that that section and I'll send it to
you sometimes to see your take on it, because it's
like it sounds like it's licking it. So that was
kind of cool. I have a friend of mine who
you says it may have been hogs, but I don't
think it's hogs. I have another, well, I hope I
have another recording somewhere that I've been trying to find this.
I think I think I had a long version of it,
so I have to isolate another the segment. But it's
you can hear these hogs out there at Lake Grey Roberts,
you know, you can hear them rooting up and making
noise and I'm like, I don't think. I don't think
that's hogs, because they would make I've got the hogs
on the audio, and they're interesting part about this audio
as I got listened to it, and you can hear
these hogs about. I listened to this thing with headphones
fight forty five minutes and all of a sudden you
to hear you hear this like when the hogs are,
you know, rooting around. You hear this knocking on the
tree at three am. This is like three am out there,
and then uh, there's there's some a good seven minutes
of quiet whatever, and all of a sudden you just
hear this hog just scream and bloody murder, and then
it just goes silent and then allowed. And then you
hear somewhere else farther away from the recorder. You're so,
I guess I'm putting two or two and two together.
I think they're a hog hutton. That night, I think
that hog was getting killed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's plenty to eat out in Texas. We
should just be clear because a lot of people think
of Texas and they think of much like my area
just blowing dust and it's deserted and tumble weeds. If
you go outside of a city, that's that's not it.
There's there's legit forest out there with deer and hogs,
and the hogs are actually quite a problem out there,
so they have lots to eat. Are there houses actually
property like properties on the lake?
Speaker 1: There is, but only prairie. I call it the prairie side. Okay,
this site is interesting because it's the state park. The
southern part of lakeer Roberts by the dam is kind
of from the dam over to the park is basically
off limits, heavily forested, and then it goes down from
there heavily forested through the green belt. There's some areas
where but it's a creek system, so they follow the
creek system because nobody's out there and that place is
closed at night, so they can follow. They can go
north and south. But at Lake Lake Gray Roberts they can, uh,
they can. They can go from from the dam area.
That whole area is closed off. It's like close off
of the public. So it's heavily forested, very remote. I
push back in there because I like, you know, I
like to find an export area and that's where you
find good wildlife. And but there is a horse trail
that goes through, but there are no houses out there.
There's no There's maybe a house across the street or two,
but everyone out there has like five acres of land,
you know, forested, like nobody cares, like they don't, they
have no clue what's going on.
Speaker 3: So well, they probably don't really want to think that
there's bigfoot out there. They might end up in our house.
But so that entire green belt area that you're speaking of,
does that close? All of that green belt essentially closes
at ten or eleven at night every every single day, right,
You can't.
Speaker 1: Be out there at night. Yeah, So it's a it's
an open corridor from basically like Grei Roberts down to Didton.
Speaker 3: So you just go out there and leave what you
can and hope it's there the next day to review
any audio or anything. So you can't. I mean, trail
cams are another area of contention because it seems like,
I mean, obviously they can hear and see things that
they can probably hear things that we can't hear too.
But you can't leave a trail cam out there, right,
I mean that.
Speaker 1: Would you can't, But we have so my friend Blake
and I. Blake was the research for friend of mine.
He got he was a he was a friend of
mine that I had met. He was looking for something.
He was just all about crazy documentary stuff. So I
asked him about uh going finding big foot stuff. So
he was down for that and uh he him and
I had an interesting one of his first or second
times out with me, had a first really interesting little
incident happened, uh because we had uh we had put
out the game camera and he had an off trail,
so I guess, you know, the park rangers not going
to see it. He had a camouflage pretty well, and
he had uh. He took a can of tuna fish
or sardines, oh, sardines, and he opened it halfway and
then took it and put it on a like a
small little staffing. He just put it right there. And
I said, all right, I said, don't expect much because
you know it's your only first second time out with me,
so I mean, dude, just be patient, you know, like
I don't know what's going to happen. But that's a
good idea. He had a really great idea. We come
back I think the next weekend or or next couple
of days or something like that. I don't know what else.
And so we go off. We go down the trail.
We peel off to the left off trail where this
can of sardines was hanging off the tree. It's not
it's not on that sapling anymore, and it's the whole
He had put his game cam about, you know, ten
or fifteen yards from there, looking at it, and the
one the can is off the sapling and it's on
the ground and it's empty, and the top is peeled
completely off. It's thrown over there, and then the thing's empty.
It is on the ground. So we're like, you know,
so we decide we go We've got to look at
the footage. So because he's got his laptop in the car,
So we start walking back, and about halfway through the wood,
through the woods, I looked to my left because I
can start hearing I hear something like bolting through the woods.
And this area that we're it fluctuates over the years
of how dense it is. Sometimes right now it's not
back into this is twenty twelve, So twenty twelve it
was really dense back there, but along the horse trail,
super dense. I said, something's coming our way, Blake, so
you might want to get up here with me. So
he's walking with me, and I looked to my left
or about sixty yards looking over, looking past the horse trail,
and I like looked, and right when I guess I
made eye contact, I saw two little dark heads go
under beyond, you know, like they went down on all
fours behind the foliage, and I'm went, Blake, you might
want to come up here with me real quick. So
he comes up there and so we stand on the
trail and he's recording, and I'm trying to get with
Blake soon about getting this recording again because of his video,
because you can hear what's called the huffs. I don't
know if you've heard of that. It's like this, like
this grunt, but it's like eighty yards away, but you
can feel it in your chest. That was the weird thing.
So we hear this like and I'm like, that's it again.
And the cool thing about his video he doesn't do
any more squatching anymore for personal reasons, but on his
video he would when that sound went off you can
hear on the video, but he would put a little
subtitle down the bottom and I tell people, I'm like,
the video doesn't do it any justice. Like you when
you're there, you feel it's this projecting grunt that you
feel in your chest. It was so bizarre. And then
we were sitting, we were standing there on the trail,
and then you hear from one side of the horse
fill to another, you hear this like fast rapid running,
and I was like, well, they just covered eighty yards
in like three seconds. You know, they were they're haul
and ass and so now they're on our side of
the trail. So there you can hear them kind of
push up, but they wouldn't come close to us. They
would they would keep folage in between us. We stayed
out there for like twenty five minutes, just kind of recording,
and then we just kind of eased on out of there.
But we checked the footage and the footage went off,
the cam went off, but nothing m It was weird
that they they and and I think, if I remember correctly,
they had already knocked the can of can of sardines
off the sapling. So I tell people, based on some
other instances, instances that they can see the beam in
the in the camera, they can see that ir beam
coming out of the camera and that's why the approach
from the back and mess with it, and I think
that's what they did here. Blake put his camera up
one other time, and I remember it was summer and
we we were like, okay, so we were looking at
this video with air conditioning on in the car because
we were just blazing hot, and we didn't see there's
not yet another video of it going off. And I
was like, I don't There's like three segments of the
video going off, but nothing is in front of it.
Is bizarre. He gets back with me one day, he goes, hey,
listen to this video again with your headphones on. I said, okay,
because you know we weren't in the car with the
air conditioning. Blastom, I listened to it with the headphones on.
There's something standing behind it, messing with the tabs on
the cam and you could hear like de breathing, something
with big lungs standing right behind the camera messing with it.
So I'm one of these days I'm gonna have to
get with Blake, and I'm I'm gonna try to get
some of his footage and put it in a compilation
and give him credit. Obviously, but he's got some cool
stuff that he when he was researching with me.
Speaker 3: So you know, if we if we hold a can
of sardines, because we have these lovely things called thumbs,
we can hold it and we can peel it back
without crushing the can and making a mess. And yeah,
was the can because just playing Devil's advocate, because people
were gonna go, well, it could have been anything that
got the sardines off the sapling and got the sardines.
But was the can all jacked up and crushed or
was it as if something finished the motion and held
the can and peeled it off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looked like someone had popped it off the tree.
Here there you go. And then because the can I
looked at Blake picked up the can. It was like,
there's no teeth marks on this. It just looks like
somebody just picked it up, finished peel and it took
all this off. If you on the ground, that's cool.
It was cool.
Speaker 3: That's cool because you know it's easy to separate things
and go well, could be this could be that, could
be this could be that, And yeah, it still could
be I suppose. But when you start adding things up
and you don't separate them, but as a sum you
kind of go, well, that's all very strange.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's uh, that's real similar to the incident
than that I called them up in the at Broken
Bow Lake. One of the incidents that happened to us
there in twenty eleven. Well, I call the nutter butters incident. Uh,
we had a I didn't Oh yeah, we had a
We were all parked out there. This is the place.
This is the same camp area that David Holly had
his nineteen seventy one encounter that sent me a video
of And me and JD were in our in his
truck at night. We were sleeping. We're kicked back, yeah,
and we had the ATV in front of his truck
and we were canked out sleeping at night. And I
was excited because we had a we had a thing
of nuttherer butters, which were like my favorite cookies to eat.
And uh, we woke up that morning and the the
the somebody had opened up the compartment on the back
of the ATV and the noter butters gone. And we
thought there's our maybe our comic relief member, Perry, the
late Perry Murray, And I said Perry, did you did
you eat all the Nuther butters because that was it
may have been something he usually would do. And he said, no,
I didn't know we had another all right, And I
was I was kind I put it like, I was like, well,
all right, and I was kind of like, well, I'm
kind of just disomayed because I literally went looking forward
to those Notther butters around camp. So John j. D.
John Holly or John David Holly, which is David David
Holly's son, he kind of starts looking around. He noticed
that there's another butter, part of the Noter Butters wrapper
your camp so, and then he saw a big imprint
in the pine needles because that's all pine trees out there, right,
So he starts falling. He founds another piece of wrapper
and another piece, so he starts falling it out. He
starts looking around the perimeter, like sixty yards around camp area.
He finds the package of Notre Voters. It's empty, it's
been peeled, you know, it opened up, and there's a
big imprint, a butt imprint of two cheeks in the
pine needles where that dude just set his big hairy
ass down and finished off those notre butters and just
talks to them. The thing on the ground, that's our
noteboter's incident.
Speaker 3: So what a litterbug? So did you guys stay because
obviously since David already had an incident and a siting there,
that's why you went back to that same spot. Was
that a place that you guys kept going?
Speaker 1: Yes, we went starting in twenty ten to about twenty
twenty three. Was the last time we were out there.
In two thousand and nine we were on one of
our pat May's expeditions and and David said, you know,
we all gathered around because we're we're about to we're
about to go somewhere where it's going to separate men
from the boys. And that's to Holly Creek, which is
on the way remote north area of Broken Bow Lake.
It's a very remote campground. And he said this is
I said, isn't that the place where we had the
seventy one encounter? He said, yep. And I said, isn't
that the place we had the two thousand encounter where
something was coming up to the tent? And I said,
he goes yep. And as nervous as I was about it,
it was it was going to be a certain adventure
and it led to some of the that's what led
to the twenty twelve encounter that we had that I
that I was witness too.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and just to be clear, the last couple
of mentions were, this is Oklahoma we're talking about now, right, Yeah, well, yeah,
if you want to whatever one you want to go
with first, if you wanted to continue with the Holly
Creek stuff since we're on that, and then go back
to your.
Speaker 1: Sighting, Oh yeah, well's let me do my sighting real
quick first, because that was in two thousand and five,
after my first expedition with David and his group. You know,
I had saw some some cool stuff, heard some cool stuff,
heard some great stories, stole a little bit on the
fence with it. But because of what was going on
at Waker Roberts, I was like, you know, I got
some good advice from him, what not to do, what
to do, blah blah blah, you know. And so about
November of two thousand and five, I had gone to
Dallas to go because we were I was living. I
had just come, you know, I moved back home from college,
back to my parents' house. Had we had about eleven
acres with heavily wooded area in the back, and so
did my neighbors, which there's wrapped around mine. And it
was a very one places. They had a very long driveway,
you know, a quarter mile, and they had the railroad
tracks going next to my house along my driveway with
some woods in between. So it was you know, it
was not it was next to the highway, but it
was it was remote. And you once you get off
all the way back down to eleven acres of land,
it's you know, it's anything you could see it. You know,
pretty much you've run into anything back there. And so
we had horses. We had a pasture and a fence line,
you know, and connecting to the neighbors and stuff. I
remember pulling in h one night and I noticed through
the first, first or second gate of a horse corral
was these branches and I remember seeing red eye shine
about eight feet up and I made the joke, oh
with big food. Yeah, and but I just whatever, you know,
I pulled in, walked inside. The next morning, I decided
to grab my camera and I was just out. You know,
this is back in two thousand and five. So the
camera that I have is the hat at the time
was like, you know, five megapixel camera. It was, you know,
a little cannon rebel. And so I I decided to
go back to my woods do some do some photography
back there, because it was, you know, there's no trails,
it's very very wilderness looking, you know, lots of big
oak trees and vegetation or whatever. It was fun and
uh I started. I picked up. I was like, because
you know what I was already experiencing at the lake
Ray Roberts, I was like, oh, this is little the
bigfoots do. And I picked a tree, I picked a
branch up. I was like, you know, and then and
all of a sudden I heard across the on the
on the Nixon's property next to ours, which theirs is.
They own a crap tunnel of of of land that's
wraps kind of does it l shape and wraps around ours,
but they have heavily wooded area back there too. And
I stopped and I was like, okay, I did it
one more time, and all of a sudden, three other
knocks back at me. I said, okay, maybe I'm maybe
I'm getting way too far into this big foot thing,
you know, So I kind of go to the middle
of my woods. It's it's about a football field size
of of wood with me a little bit smaller, and
it gets really really sketchy, like thick with cedar tree.
You know cedar trees that go way on down to
the ground where you can't you can't. It's not those
big tall ceedar trees. It's like those Texas cedar trees.
When I go all the way to the to the
ground and I'm back there, I'm listening, I heard something,
ah uh, like go over the you heard the you
heard the bob wire fence being moved, And then I
heard like whims snapping, like something's like shifting its weight
back there behind the tree. And I was like, yeah,
I'm not going back there. I'm gonna keep my distance.
I just kind of like backed up back down there,
just kind of got walked back to the house. Didn't
think anything of it. So later on that night, and
this is when I was at the time. I'm divorced now,
but when I had first met my wife, we were
dating and I was talking. This is back in the
AOL days where you'd have AOL chat, you know, I
was talking to her or whatever, and me and her
are talking and and uh, I could hear because my
my room was right there by our porch and by
our front area. So we have of our neighbors property
come from. You know, it's a good four hundred meters
to the road, but some of their property comes up
to ours. So we have a front area that's that's
fenced in and that's where their property starts. So I
kept hearing shush, shush, you know, the leaves in the
front lawn. Like it sounded like somebody just walking through
my front lawn. When you live out in the country,
you you hear that stuff and you're like, wait, whoa, whoa.
You know, it's not like a suburbia where you know
somebody's just walking around. It's when you start hearing that
kind of sound you want to just pop up, you know,
the the blinds open, what's going on? Because because I
would hear, we had a one of those cement porches,
you know, the beams and stuff, and I would I
would feel like the somebody's walking like the the you know,
on our front porch, and that was scary. So I
I was telling her about, well was what was happening.
She thought it was interesting, and I was like well, okay,
so I I didn't go outside at first, but I
we did have these floodlights, you know, the flub lights
you put on the corners of your house. And I
decided to put my ear to the door and just
like do the flood lights on, kind of like an alarm,
just like and I and I heard. The best way
I can describe it is like gard through bark. And
I was like, that's kind of weird. So I said, okay, uh,
I'll just turn them back off for a second, go
back to my room. I was on my on my
computer again, and then my computer desk was like right
buried by the window, so uh uh there was a
down below underneath the window. There was a four inch
like a four inch gap and my uh you know,
my my screen was shut, but one of the windows
is open. So I put my ear to the wall
so I can hear some more of this going on,
you know, whatever it was. Walk around the front yard
and I look at that four inch gap out into
that darkness, and there's two red eyes looking at me
going like this like an like an agitated chimp. And
I'm going, okay, I get back up. I close the
blinds back down, and I said, well, that's creepy. So
obviously at that point I knew I wasn't one. There's
something out there. And I remember getting my mom out
there with me on the front porch we turned off.
We didn't have a porch light that was one that
was out at the time, but we had those and
then we were standing out there and I was like, oh,
you hear anything whatever, and she I don't hear anything,
all right. So we go back inside and I started
getting creeped out. So I said, Mama might go down
to Anna's place in Carrollton, just spend night there because
something's bugging with me out here. You know, sounded all
weird to her, but you know, she knew where I
was into. But whatever. So I was getting my shoes on,
I was kind of keeping an eye out that that
that space between between the blinds and the window sill,
and you could see my neighbors little pole on their
lights or whatever walk through the yard would cause a silhouette,
I guess the best way to describe it. And as
I'm putting on my shoes, I'm looking there's an eight
foot tall figure with broad shoulders, little small head, and
it walks through. You see it walking through my front lawn,
of my front lawn, and then here's another one coming
right with it. And I'm guessing eight foot or so
because their shoulder hit the oak the oak tree branch,
and I saw a branch moves like this, So I
don't know how you know, I would, I didn't put
a guess on how they goes. That was enough for me,
and I said, Mom, I'm going down to Carleton. So
we come out in the front. I said, when I
I want you to come with me because my dad
was out at the time. My mom did transcription work
late at night. So I said, I'm gonna open up
the front door, and you're gonna come out here with me,
because whatever I see, I want you to see. You know,
we go out there, weip, you know, we flipped on
the flud lights. We go out there. Once we did,
we're standing both of us are standing on this porch
and you could hear somebody with a baseball bat down
by the pond going. I said, do you hear that?
And my mom, you know, of course she was a
little older than she's older now, but she, you know,
she's like, I think I heard something, But there's this
big oak tree right by our porch, and you heard
something scap up the tree and I look over and
the limb that goes over our gutter goes cupunkka punk,
and then you hear the over the house. So whatever
it was climbed the tree real quick and went over
the house on top of the roof, because you could
hear the thuds of the feet. And I'm went, okay,
I'm gonna go back inside. I said, open up the
back garage. I'm going to get to my car that
way because I'm not going around this house with it
being dark. And I said, if you and Dad hear something,
just call the sheriff. Because Dad's real good friend, he's
a business owner, he's real good friends with him. So
I said, if y'all hear anything, locked the door, just
if you hear something, to call the police. Because I
know I wasn't gonn getting back to sleep that night.
So I went down to Carlton. I spent the night there.
I came back the next day. I decided to get
my crappy little camera and pair of binoculars, and I
walked out into our pasture. I looked, that was when
we had a bad, bad drought. I think there was
lake levels. It super low. I looked out for footprints,
didn't see anything but ground as hard as a rock.
I couldn't find anything in our yard. So I decided
to go walk the pasture, which is that kind of
a few there down by where I heard the knocking
come from. And I get to about, you know, kind
of overlooking the fence line where the neighbors are, and
they had some a couple of donkeys and some cows.
And I noticed that when I was talking to them
with the fence line, they all got up and left
single file. And I'm like, they've never done that before.
They just kind of like, we're out of here. They
started making their way back toward their barn, which was
about eight hundred yards away, and I'm like, okay, And
then I looked and I look about three hundred four
hundred meters yards maybe two three football fields maybe about
four football fields away down by their pond, and there's
a tree lightly, there's a tree line, but it's kind
of lots of bush and foliage and stuff. It's kind
of open ground. It's but I know something bright down there.
It looked like a big, bright auburn cow. All by itself.
So I pull out my binoculars and I'll look. And
the first thing that I see is the biggest orangutang
that I've ever seen in my life. He was, you know,
ring tangs are big, bright auburn colored, and it was
it was by these small little seeds, and it kept
doing this from the sea, and then it would look around.
You know, It's cool because when it look you can
kind of see it's ape shaped face. You know, a
lot of people are like, oh, look look at human.
I'm like, no, this dude didn't look like a human.
This guy looked like, you know, like a rangutan, and
but bigger, like four feet wide shoulder and just big,
you know, and it would it would rock back and
forth like this a little bit, and uh, finally it
looked to its its left and then looked back at
me and then just it was like somebody on a
the way best way I can describe it, it is like
somebody on a lever pushed the lever and then he
just rose up, you know, like and he just kept
going and going. This thing to be about nine feet
tall because he he about hit the branch, you know,
his head came up to where the branches are on
the oak trees, and he just looked at me, and
then it when it when it walked we started, it
kept its head at me like this, and you could
see its arms like this. It was a bright sunny day,
so you could see like the like the muscles, you know,
because I was using binoculars watching this, so you can
see the muscle structure moving, you know, like you know,
just like when you see horses, you know, when they're
it's like those muscle those muscle structured glistening in the sun.
You could see that it was super fluid and just
just big and majestic. And I'm watching this. A lot
of people were like, why didn't you take pictures? And
the camera equipment that I had just wasn't good enough
for four hundred meters. I had a like seventeen the
fifty five milimeter lens and basically at that time it
would have been just an auburn spec And I thought,
you know, but I to this day, I really wish
I just went ahead to take pictures just for myself
and then I could show whoever whatever. But at the time,
I was like, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna take
these pictures and then they're going to see the little
Auburn spec and go, yeah, well you're crazy, you know,
just because it's not it's not the right equipment for
the job that was at hand, which is why I
invested in a big long tell FOOTO wins now is that, Yeah, yeah,
those are pricey.
Speaker 3: People don't understand. They're like, why why don't you have
a better camera. It's not the camera, it's the lens,
and the lenses cost almost always more than the damn
camera costs if you're talking about a decent lens exactly.
Speaker 1: So if I if I had opted for a three
hundred milimere like like it was like one hundred and
seventy five three hundred milimere lens, that it would have
gotten me the good pictures of that even but I
didn't have that at a time. So I I I'd
like to do a lot of consulting with bigfoot researchers
that don't have this stuff and recommend stuff like if
you get this and this, like when that, when that
scenario comes up, you will be ready. So that's why
I always have a long lens with me. So it
got up as I was watching it through the pinoctors.
It got up and walked a few yards and then
sat back down or lowered itself back down, and there
was another one that came up behind it. Now I
don't know if it was I don't know it was.
It's uh, but it looked a little bit larger or
maybe this I don't know, but it would it would be.
And then they would look up like they would look
at each other. They look in my direction, and then
they would look at each other and they like in
the one the one behind would lower down like you
were trying to say mumble something to each other, and
they look back by way like they couldn't tell what
I was doing, because there's like four hundred yards between us,
and so I'm just watching, going, oh my, you know,
holy you know, and uh. And they would touch noses
and they would look back at me, and then one
of the one behind would be like this, like it
was super agitated. And I was like, okay, all right,
well maybe maybe I just told my mom because he
was waning to know what I saw last night. So
I was walking back across the pasture and I noticed
something big moving through our woods. But this was an
auburn colored This was charcoal colored. So I laid down
the ground. I pulled out my my binoculars because it
was about two hundred and fifty yards away, and because
we had like that big five eight, you know, it
was a good several acres that we have, you know,
eleven acres, and most of it was behind our house.
So I laid down the middle of the pasture and
I pulled the binoculars on look, and it's like a big,
huge chimpanzee and he was kind of blended in. He
was about ten or fifteen yards into the woods, but
he he was he hunkered down next to a little
cedar tree and was like leanning out like this, and
you could see him here. He'll look, he was looking
in the direction that he wanted to go to the
where the other ones were, which is what I'm guessing.
But he was like he was charcoal gray. He was
moving in all fours and he spotted me, and I
spotted him, and he just hunkered down and he was
kind of weird. Through the monoclears, you could see his
chest breathing like this, his chest breathing up and like
you could see it in and out, and it was nuts.
But his since he was looking at me. The sun
was hitting his eyes and making his eyes shine, so
you could see his red eye shine in the daytime,
which is one of those little weird details that I
remember about that and that. After that, I was like,
I'm probably going these guys alone. I'll just go back
and tell one of my parents about what I saw.
Of course, my mom is a big animal, but she's like,
if you said wherever you saw her, just leave him alone.
I was like, I wasn't going to go back there
and bother him. But my dad had he needed me
for some job with some piping in the house. So
I heard him call and I said, all right, well,
I guess there'll be another time we'll mess with you guys.
So I went back to the house and helped him
and just kind of kept my mouth shut about it.
But yeah, it was, Uh, it was wild seeing these
things because like there's no there's no movie magic that
can imitate these things.
Speaker 3: So you saw one doing what is termed the spider crawl.
Do you think that that looked just as natural on
all fours that they do on on on two legs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't know if he was. So I
have a friend who says the spider crawl things going
on their belly, And he said, it's the freakiest thing
because they like he's seen that before already. Know, he
had a friend that was researching with him and who
saw that. This was all it was like like a
like a knuckle like a knuckle walk. This was more
of a knuckle walk because if I if I would
guesstimate how high his shoulder was, I'm I'm short. I'm
a short dude, I'm five to two, so I'm guessing
his shoulder would have almost been up to hear me.
So if that thing stood up, that would be a
big mofo. And it was so weird just to he
was just looking his like mouth was like halfway open.
He's like he is he him breathing. It's just like,
come on back here, dude, yeah, Dari, come back here. Y.
Speaker 3: So then that would be like a like a gorilla
walking on.
Speaker 1: The knuckle walk, a low knuckle walk. I remember I
was coming this way and he was coming this way.
We saw each other and uh, yeah, it was bizarre.
Speaker 3: And they touched noses. You actually saw them touch noses.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: It was like, what do you think that's about.
Speaker 1: I don't know. They were touching noses, and I was like,
and they would come back, you know, they look their
faces were tuckle, I guess, but I could see, you know,
you couldn't see too much detail, but you can see
their mouths moving so like they would touch noses, and
then i'd see them like, you know, like them talking
that they're saying, they're saying something to each other. Like
it looked like two people talking having conversation and then
looking back my direction.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe that's some sort of an affirmation thing
for them, or or comfort or a confirmation of what
they're talking about.
Speaker 1: I think they they thought, what is that little hairless
little human up there, four hundred meters from us? Is
what is he doing? Because he's just standing there looking
in our direction, we can't tell what he's doing.
Speaker 3: Well, they were definitely wondering what the hell you were doing?
That's for dang sure, but touching those the thing is
very that is very unique.
Speaker 1: Okay, So yeah, it was bizarre. It was really bizarre
because they would they would touch they kind of would
touch them. I don't know if they're I don't know
if that was the reason why, but they look like they,
you know from where I was seeing through binoculars, and
they would touch real close to each other and then
look around. They would just like they're just something. Yeah,
it was bizarre. It was cool. It was like watching
the National Geographic you know too. If I had if
I had my six hundred millimerr lens that I do
that I do now, it would be some amazing footage.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, okay, So what about the neighbors then, I mean,
I know that not everybody talks, and not everybody wants
to bring such things up because then you get the look.
But did any anybody talk amongst themselves about weird stuff
going down?
Speaker 1: You know, we never really talked to them that much, really,
and they never really talked to us. You know, we
just know that live about half mile or like a
quarter mile quarter down the road from us. But I
did see one. I was out my pasture before before
my dad passed away we sold the place. I did
see mister Nixon blaze through his property next to ours
in his truck, and I thought it was kind of
weird because I never seen him do in the years
and years decades that we lived there, I had never
seen him do that, you know, he was. He was
moving through his pasture at a rapid speed with his truck.
And I don't know why the purpose of it was.
Speaker 3: So you guys had horses and then they had donkeys
and cows. You said, did any of anybody's animals ever
get messed with or hurt or anything?
Speaker 1: No, nothing I know of, And I don't know about
I can't speak for him, but I know that I was.
I was worried about our horses. They don't seem to
They didn't seem to mess with him. I was worried
about our great Dane that my mom moved that out
into the back, the back fenced in backyard area, because
he's about the size of the deer, and maybe that's
why they kept away from the house prior to that.
The weird thing that happened in the months that followed
into two thousand and six was when wonderful horses passed away,
and I think the Great Dane, our great Dane passed away.
We buried them both in the back pasture. I walked
the fence line one time toward the woods and I
came across the area where our ivan, the Great Dane
was buried at There was a stick in the ground
and some of the soil moved away, like something came
there and tried to dig into his grave. The stick
was laying there on the ground like halfway into the dirt,
and I knew who it was. I think it was
those creatures, and it kind of kissed me off because
I was like, you need to leave this duew alone
because he's he's our family member. We did at the
time have also have my older half brother who was
he was he was he was ro back into drinking.
He'd every now and then during our lives he would
have to stay with us to save back up to
get his life back on track. He was living and
he had his own more room and he had built
in our barn with a bad and everything bad air
conditioning and stuff. So he had himself a new job
and he was he was living and he said he
never heard anything. But he had a friend named Eric
that parked his truck by the corral and he visited
with with my older half brother Billy. And one night
he was walking back across the pasture Corraalley area to
his truck and he says something was following him and
when he stopped, it stopped and he you know, he's
just you regular, you know, running the mill Texan cowboy.
He okay, that's weird. And then he started walking again,
and then it started. He started hearing those slow steps.
He was on the other side of the fence line
by the railroad tracks with the trees and everything. If
you stand there at night, you can't see what's on
the other side of that fence line. And so he
got back in his truck and started it up and left.
But he did mention it to us. He said something
was following me. He didn't know about what happened to me,
but Billy put two and two together and he said
something something followed my friend Eric on the other side
of the fence line, real slow and methodically. So, yeah, neighbors,
I don't know. Neighbors haven't said anything, you know, I
kind of w I kind of wanted to kind of
asking him, like, have you all under seen anything kind
of weird in your property?
Speaker 3: But well, especially you seeing these varying coat or for
whatever you want to call it, hair colors is really
cool too, the charcoal and the auburn kind of reddish ones.
Speaker 1: One of the things I got from this was like,
you know, birds of a feather don't always flock together,
and and it was like there's two auburn and one
charcoal and a lot of people back in the day
when I used to tell the story, you're like, well,
how many of these things did you see that day?
You're like, well, three, But there could have been more,
you know, because there were some knocks coming from the
woods when I saw that third one, so it could
have been like a fourth one. I'm gonna guess it
was about like a little family unit of them. They're
all together, and I think me going back into that
woods that morning is what threw a monkey wrench pardon
the pun, but through a monkey wrench into their little
daily checking us out. Because I upon months after, I
would I was walking the fence line, you know, I would.
I would stay out there all the time. I found
one little spot by the fence line and I would
watch that same spot that I had the encounter, and
still nothing would happen. You know, for three to four months.
I was like, you know, but I would walk and
I'd noticed something the area where I had gotten the spot,
close to where I had seen the ones across the
fence line, there was a there was an entire tree,
a cedar tree broken down, and then a bunch of
the dead fall all placed in there. If you got
behind it, you would see the back of our house
to the window where my mom would do her transcription
work late at night. That was like her office. And
if you keep going down the fence line, you would
see uh another one and by or pond and then
the uh the the hedge apple trees there bent like this,
cracked and twisted and bent down to where it touched
where the bank of the pond was. If you got
behind those, you could see the spot of the porch
from my dad would go smoke cigarettes at night.
Speaker 3: See and I wonder the people that live in the area.
So just assume there's a bigfoot group, family, whatever clan,
however you want to label it, in the area. It
makes me wonder the people that decide to leave their
blinds open at night, or their curtain or they don't
have any. If they have these bigfoot come in and
watch them more. Because they're on display with lights on
at night, nothing covering the windows, they probably have more activity.
Did you guys, have you know anything covering windows at nighttime?
Speaker 1: We had blinds, Okay, that we leave at night, we
open you know, in my bedroom. You know obviously you know,
because but I mean, like you can't see any like
if you're a person, a neighbor, you can't see into
our house because it's so far away.
Speaker 3: But you had blinds, but you didn't close them at night.
I mean in the living in the common.
Speaker 1: Areas for the most part. And I remember the part
of my my encounter where like, you know, you have
the back sun room and that's where the kiddies are,
and that's where we would take the dogs out to
go a bathroom at And I remember I was watching
the back through the back patio. The I was watching
the through the windows. And when I turned back around
to look through the frosted glass, because you know it's frosted,
you could see like through like a little inch of
it whatever, you know, the design the frost the front door,
I saw a big silhouette like this, and then when
I turn made eye contact, it went talk about creepy.
The next day, this this is how how how much
it messed with my head. I turned all the blinds, shut,
every blind in the house. My mom was like, what
in the hell are you doing. I don't want anything
out there looking at her.
Speaker 3: Well, did you tell her? Did you tell her why
you were doing that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I explained. She's like, well, I just don't, you know.
I don't know, you know, my mom's kind of like
Marge Simpson. You know, I just you know. But it
I tell people that it apparently I think I was
still in shock. I think I was suffering from shock,
is what I was thinking. I think what was happening.
And I just wanted to all those blinds, every blind
my parents room, there are are are you know, both
the spare bedrooms. Everywhere I can find a blind, I
closed it. Yeah, I was still in shock.
Speaker 3: So yeah, when we're in that fish bowl environment and
we don't close blinds or curtains and we have lights on,
you can't see out, but everything can see in whatever's
out there.
Speaker 1: Yep. I tell you a really interesting shot. This is
not something happened to me. But there's a researcher that
I talked to in Oklahoma when he came down and
he said that he had some very scary crap happened
hit his place. But he said he when their house,
he had this like old truck that was out on
the side of the house, and you know, he had
a lot of activity at his property. But he said,
one incident, you would go outside the house and you
go to that old truck, vintage truck that was sitting
there for years by his property. On the other side
of it was too where it had this creature had
gone and just sat there and would look through the
window of the side windows. It would use the truck
his cover and would sit there and watch the kitchen.
And the only reason why they knew it was there
because you could see where his feet were at the time.
For for months and months and months months they had
come to the same spot and watch them using that
thing as cover, but he would use the side windows.
Speaker 3: You know, they're definitely creepers. They just they mostly just
like to watch. I mean, obviously that very first encounter
you shared date it came right into the bonfire area,
didn't work out so well for it in that case, which, hey,
I don't blame them for taking the shot because I
think if you all of a sudden there's a monster
coming at you, yeah, that would probably be the first
thought anybody had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I could you know that story. That
story gave me the creeps when they told me. And
you know, it wasn't until two thousand and five that
I actually get to see what they saw. But I
can I can't even like my mind was. It was
scary enough seeing these things about, you know, two hundred
yards away or the other one's four hundred yards away,
that was scary enough. I can't even imagine turning around
fifty yards behind you or or last one of these things. Yeah,
I probably would have done the same thing. I know
that upsets people all the time. People people were like, no,
don't please, don't shoot, you know, but.
Speaker 3: Whatever, Yeah, I mean, you're gonna fend people no matter
what you say, So that's all right. I wonder if
the charcoal one was the alpha, the grandpa, the patriarch
of that family out.
Speaker 1: There, you know, so I got what I got. I
got thinking about it because it looked commonly the two
auburn ones, even though that one was super big, that
one of them was maybe the younger one, and they
were kind of they looked like they're kind of caring
for each other. And the the charcoal one was the
one on the front lines closer to my house and
was doing more of the checking out because that dude
was still in my woods. And so he was on
the front lines, you know, as I call it, and
and and uh checking, checking what was going on in
my house. So and I had I kind of wanted
to go back in the woods at the time, because
I was before I first when I first spotted them,
I actually was all my way to going back into
the woods. But I was like, nope, not anymore. Now
I'm going back there because that big dude of courts.
Speaker 3: What's the closest illustration or something from a movie, whatever
it is that you would say that's the face of
what I saw that day.
Speaker 1: That's a good question, because I posted and I don't
I'm gonna try to I tried to put I got
a grad. I did a screen shot the new Planet
of Apes, the you know, the CGI version, the recent
one franchise. There's this one of them, and I know
he has face paint, he's got these stripes on him.
That's you know, obviously that's part of the storyline. But
that mean old chimp looking dude on a horse. I
don't know if anyone, if anyone is listening and they've
seen the new franchise and they've seen one of the
planets of the apes. He's mounted on a horse and
he's got stripes on his hand, hand paint on his thing.
Don't worry about the hampaint just you know, but that
rounded top, uh kind of just mean old chimp looking.
That's it. And yeah, and I'll find that picture and
I'll send it to you. That's the screenshot that I found.
That's that's him. The other ones, I guess because they're
farther away, and even though I had some pretty good detail,
they looked weren't like a regatings, but they you know,
that one looked like a big meno chimp. I don't
people that are like, oh, well, it looks so human. Yeah,
I kind of, but it looks like a big meno
chimp to me.
Speaker 3: So honestly, courts your those sightings there with those three
is a very ideal situation because you're far enough away,
you're not worried about it, and you're through binoculars getting detail.
Speaker 1: I can I tell. I keep telling myself, man, what
if I had my six hundred MILLI MERR lens right now?
Even though it's a vengeance lens, it's manual focused, but
I mean, oh man, I would have had a heyday
if I had a long lens.
Speaker 3: You know what, though, there's something to be said for
staying in the moment and you just having your experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. And they're like,
I still kick myself for this very day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I can understand that.
Speaker 1: Because I know people are if I took photos and
that little rinky dink fifty five millimeter lens, people are
going to go, I don't see anything. Yeah, where's the
red circles.
Speaker 4: That you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get the red circles out?
Speaker 1: Pull off the red marker, man, because like this is
it right here? But this is why whenever I go
out on expedition, is that why I have a some
form that may not be the six hundred millimeter lens,
but some form of big long lens that it's a
vintage lens or a digital one that I can quickly
because I know some at some point there's going to
be that encounter, that type of encounter that's going to
happen again, Yeah, and and just whip out that big
long lens and start shooting away. So yeah, that's in
my that's in my arsenal Vie.
Speaker 3: So especially being a professional photographer, I'm sure that that
just sticks in your cross so badly, but you know,
it is what it is, and sometimes that's just how
it's supposed to go, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: I definitely I definitely lived in the moment at that time. Yeah,
I think that's great. That's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 3: Because you know what, even if you put the pictures up,
people are still going to call bullshit, so what oh,
you can't please them all and especially nowadays because of AI,
So we're really screwed in that in that regard. Okay, well,
let's close it down and go back to Holly Creek,
Oklahoma then, right, so.
Speaker 1: We went to twenty ten. We moved things to Oklahoma,
back to where David Holly had his encounter, and he
gave me the warning that the creatures here are bolder, bigger,
and a hell of a lot more terrifying. And I said, okay, man,
because we have already done five years of research at
Pat May's and that was scary enough, but he said,
this is so remote that we're going to have to
be on high alert and lots of firearms and just
a perimeter and just you know, so I'm gonna go
ahead and fast forward to the twenty twelve incident, because
we had some really good things that happened to us,
but you know, not not anything visual, you know, up
until about twenty twelve. I went out there, met up
with them and we had I think one, two, three,
six people and I was kind of I was a
little bit, isn't it because I said, I don't like
coming out here with anything less than eight or ten.
It was one of it's so remote that you want
a big group, grow a safety in numbers. And then
we had about we had we had me and David,
his friend Perry, uh jd his son, David's son, and
then uh Michael and Brandon, and I said, is this
is it? He said, yeah, this is it. We're gonna
have to just hunker down, do the best we can.
And this is a place that is so remote that
you don't even have to leave camp. You are and
you're there is no green zone out there. There is
like you're there, they're going to come find you. And
you know, we set up we got some cams up
near down near the lake, near the shoreline, so maybe
we can capture something. But that first night, it was
a Friday night, and I uh, I was, I had
had everyone had turned in got inside there. We don't
even sleep intents out there. It's it's that active, like
everyone sleeps inside the vehicle. And I was inside my
little car at the time. I had a little hatch
back and and I remember that Friday night waking up
because I had some kind of bad dream and I
don't know, I felt like I was being drugg around.
So I got I don't know if something came up
to my car and pushed it, you know, but something
woke me up up, and I wiped away the the
not the frost, but like you know, like the stuff
in the window, and it's like warmer inside conversation. And
I saw my cars here, and David's car was about
seven yards away from mine, parked there, and I looked, really,
you know, it was at night, so I looked, look,
and there's something a figure real tall looking over David's
ah little uh uh blazer, and then it just kind
of slowly backed off and walked off, and I said yeah.
So I was like, well, and I had I had
the walkie talkie, and I said, is anybody up? And
I didn't hear anything, so I said, okay, so I
made sure my doors are locked, and I put the
h They put the blanket over my head, and I
just kind of laid back down and kept still, and
I reached up front flashed my my high beams a
little bit like like an alarm. So if there's anything
out there in camp, maybe I'll maybe that'll startle it.
And then I kind of try to get back to sleep.
I don't think I could get back to sleep that night,
So so the next day we kind of talked about
what happened. And one of the things that we found
that night that I've got a picture of was John's car.
JD's car was his truck. He had a Ford f
one fifty with a little bit of a lift kit
on it. He was sleeping at you know, his his
seat was back and he has hat down. He's sleeping away.
Something had come up to his side of a forward
read four fifty and put its face into the window
and you could see the nose and lips print, and
I took a picture of it. You can see like
a bottom whip and nose pressed up, you know, where
it smudged up against the window. So that was interesting.
So and it was interesting that we got pictures of that.
I was having a heyday. I was like, oh, this
is great. So the next day we we set out
some IR cameras in this waterfall area and hoping to
capture something. But we're all worn out and nighttime came
and I said, hey, David. David like, I don't want
anybody by themselves in their vehicle. Let's get everyone kind
of two and two together. You know. John fine, he's
got his forty five caliber in there with him, so
he's good. Harry's going to be out sleep soon. That's
how he is. He just nods off and goes to sleep.
Brandon and Michael, then you and me. And I said,
you don't mind me being in there because he had
like a big futa mattress in there. It was perfect,
you know. And I said I didn't get my sleep
last night because of what happened. And he goes, go
ahead and grab your your blanket. You're pull hop on him.
So I do, and he said, I'll tell you if
I if I hear something. He's a very light sleeper. Yeah.
David had been a tower guard at Huntsville Prison for
a number of years, so he was he was just
one of those security type people, and uh so I
nod off. I was like I once my head hit
that pill, I was like, il's out. And then uh I,
uh I was out. And then next thing I know,
it was I had several hours of sleep and I
heard I heard David say in his very cautious voice,
I said, he goes courts, Hey, hey, courts. And I was,
you know, half asleep, are you awake? And I and
then you could tell, you know, like you can tell
the sound of somebody's voice that something's wrong, and uh,
I said, hey, what's going on? He says, I think
there's a squatch in these woods. And I said, okay,
now you know, the adrenaline started kind of going and
I was awake and he I said, well, where's he at?
He said, well, secondly, ago, he walked right up to
the side of your window and then tapped on the middle.
We've had that happen before. It's like it's a quick tap,
you know, with their fingernail. But he said, he came
right up to your window. And I think he's on
the blind side right now. He's talking. David's talking kind
of whispering quiet, and then you see you hear the footsteps.
And not only could you hear the footsteps, you could
feel in your chest as each footprint hit the ground.
That was the scary part, because you could feel how
heavy this thing was. And he saw it pass by
the back window of the sevat, you know, the blazer
the window, and uh, it got well, you could see
it lower down and now it was on David's side.
It lowered down. It was knuckle crawling onto his side.
And you hear that thinking and David, he's David looks,
he so and he has uh uh, all the windows
are what do you call that? That reflective stuff. It's
the it's tint, but it's reflective. Yeah, so it's a
reflective tint. So I don't I don't know if you
could see inside. Uh and maybe it might have been
interested in its reflection on that.
Speaker 6: But David looks, you know, he gets his he gets
he looks in. Then he looks out the window a
little bit. He goes, oh, he's on all fours, he's
on our back side. And then you see it rise
back up and.
Speaker 1: Back. You know, he goes back around my side and
the whole time I'm like, nope, nope, nope, I'm just
trying to like cover my face. I'm just like uh.
So David gets he gets his anyway, he's got his, uh,
his his gun and next to him in the in
the door space whatever like that. So he says, doors
are locked. He says, we're good. He gets his, He
gets his radio, and he'say, you know how the radio
when you turn on the radios when we do we
go on operation or an expedition, you know how they
at night they have th little li's l c D
screens that light up. So David has got it underneath
the blank underneath his sleeping bag, and he's trying to
keep it from lighting up the entire entire car. So
he's he turns it on. He says, JD, you're awake,
and there's radio silence. He yes, he's asleep or something.
Michael Ashley Brandon, are you awake? We figured they're all
passed out just to sleep. We didn't want to call
Perry because Perry's probably already asleep. So Perry, you awake.
Everybody's asleep, so we we Uh So he says, Will
Courts just lay here and we'll just observe what he does,
because apparently he's going from our car to Parry's truck
and then he come back over to our car. And
but the interesting part about it is that, remember those
grunts I was talking about in the beginning, he started
doing those, and you could feel it in your chest.
But he'd go like and it was like really aggressive
sounding grunts, like he was whatever he was trying to
intimidate whatever was there. And this thing stating around camp
for a good forty five minutes, well, we just kind of,
I guess, we did our best to observe and kept quiet.
It started to get to a point and this is
it was an overcast morning, so you didn't see any sunlight.
But I noticed that I could start seeing the bark
on the trees. So we were starting to have enough
flight so I could see the bark on the trees,
on the pine trees, and David was I guess David
was getting hostile toward it because he wanted to get
back to sleep because we couldn't does not knowing much
we could do at that point, but David said he
kind of raised his voice and said, hey, monkey boy,
we're trying in here, trying to sleep. You're out there
walking around tapping on the car. And he heard the
walking stop real quick, and you hear it. He goes, hey, courts,
you can you can hear it breathing. Listen real good,
you can hear it breathing. I'm like, David, I don't
want to hear him breathing. So but then you hear
the foot. It looked like it kicked its foot and
hit the pebbles up against the car like he got
mad because he goes wrong. And then it walked off
somewhere in camp and I was like, well, I don't
hear him. That's when I heard one of the creature
doing a high sprint out of camp and I said,
did you just hear that? And I said high spread
and he said yeah. And I said, why don't we
wait about five minutes and then we'll get out of
this car, we'll get out of the Blazer and we'll
start the fire. Well, told JD what's going what would
just happen? He said that lees that this sounds like
a plan. And then we here behind the front of
the car. The front we had the front covered with
a blanket because we didn't want the little dog, the
little pitbull to get have something looking at it, So
we had that we had a towel over the front windshield.
We hear in front of the blazer. It sounded like
somebody reving a motor up, but it wasn't a motor.
It was that thing given like a roar, like a
low like a low roar. And I said, I think
we might want away about thirty more minutes where we
get more than that thing's gone, he said, And David said, yeah,
I think so. So we waited thirty more minutes, but
we could see out of the windows it was and
the sun had come up, and we opened up those
doors and got with JD and told him about what happened.
So I did grab my camera and I videoed the
went that I got out of those doors. I grabbed
my video camera if that was in my pack outside
on in camp, and I video of the interaction between
David and and JD talking about what just happened. But
we JD filled a song in on some some information
that from his point of view, his his pitball rock
had to go to the bathroom about the time that
we had that the encounter, and j D opened his door.
He just cracked it. That's his thing, that's his security thing.
He cracks it and then listens and when he opened
up his door, he heard that up that one go
take off. He didn't realize that there was a second
one there, so he close up. He says, Rock, you'll
go bathroom here into a second because he didn't know
what he didn't know what that was. He just heard
running sprinting down back down on the camp trail. So
he closed his door until we got out, and then
he let Rock out to go to the bath. But
he said, once he heard that sprinting, he's so I
put two and two together, and I think what had
happened was there's two of them, probably a younger one,
and when that younger one heard the door crack open,
he said, I'm out of here, the big alpha. I'm
assuming the big alpha kind of. He said, I'm gonna
just hang back here where they can't see me and
let off a nice little roar for them to scare him.
And then it, Yeah, it must have mosied off sometime
after that. So that was that was the encounter that
was unnerving. Like my my original encounter was unnerving, but
it was more more of excitement. This one was unnerving
because of just how close close and close up it was.
Speaker 3: So is that why your when it was actually circling
around with you and David, is that why your your
reaction was, I don't want to actually look right now.
It was too close for coming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was too close because you It was the
way I described it was very personal because he came
back around my side and you could feel his feet.
You could feel the feet hitting the ground like I
don't know if it was stomping a little bit more aggressively,
but it was. It was like boom, boom boom. It
was getting like wow, you could feel it like in
your chest as it came back around my side like
it was it was just super raw power, like I'm
here and I can nank this store off, this off
the hinges and snatch you out of there.
Speaker 3: Oh, I get it, trust me, and I can understand.
Because that's completely different than seeing them from two hundred
yards away through binoculars, you know. So that's a lot different.
So did you guys have any cameras set up pointed
at your vehicles at night?
Speaker 1: No, but we did so that night, the night when
that happened, we said okay, so we covered the blame
with a tarp and then we put a can by
the tree overlooking our blazer when we did nothing else
happened that. That was Saturday nights when we did that,
and nothing help. It's weird. It's like the cameras are up,
They're like, nope, I'm not going to mess with them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 3: That that's something we hear a lot, you know people
And in fact, if bigfoot researchers go out to somebody's property,
which it's completely different of course, if you're having unwanted
activity where you live, because you should feel safe at
your home. Bigfoot researchers go, well, try putting cameras up,
and that might just kill it, you know. They they'll
go through, oh, put spotlights up, you get dogs or whatever,
but you put cameras up, and sometimes that just that'll
end it.
Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, I noticed that when I told my
my dad to put security lights up at the back,
on the back of the house, not just the front.
The moment we put those security oh and we left
them on all night. Yeah, when we started doing that,
they never nothing nothing, yeah, nothing. I think the last
time that I had heard of them was I I
was living. Me and me and Anna were living in
Denn't and I had driven up for something to go
talk to Dad about something, and the guy there was
this relatiously scream roar from the three hundred and two
acres across the road. It's a it's a lightly wood.
There's an old graveyard up there too, but there's it's
cattle and hay and then like a like a creek
system in woods. And I heard this hallaciously screaming roar
coming from that before I went, before I got inside
the house, and I just stopped. I listened, But it
was coming from that three hundred and two acres. That
was the guy that we bought our hay from. But uh,
I think that that's where they are based at and
then at night they would come across the road to
the houses. Yeah, so but that was the last time,
but I heard anything weird there after that.
Speaker 3: So well, Yeah, I imagine as the years go on,
just more houses get built or you know whatever roads
go through things, and more trails cut through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's more houses out there now, like out in
that three hundred and two like that. I don't even
think that guy's alive anymore. I think he sold some
of his property. There's a bed and breakfast all on
that property. Now there's a I think somebody else sectioned
off an area that built their little house out there.
When I was driving up through there again, yeah, yeah,
there's a there's a stuff being being built there that
that wasn't there thirty years ago, and so yeah, interesting
it is.
Speaker 3: But honestly, yeah, that that encounter where you saw those
three is just it's so ideal that or, you know,
a road crossing during the day, I think is really
ideal where you you it's close enough, not too close,
and it's also where you see them clear enough that
you can identify what you are seeing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that kind of that, That's what I
call it. I was trying to think of a name
for that typic of accounty. It's a very comfort zone
encounter where you're I was in my I wasn't in
my comfort zone the night, Profrior, but I was in
my comfort zone. I was in the pasture. Yeah, they're
in their comfort zone somewhere back there in his woodline pasture.
And so we can we can now observe each other,
me better than them because they probably couldn't see too
well what I was doing, but they were able to
observe me. I was able to observe them, and I
pray to God every day that I'll have that kind
of counter some other time. Or I was like, hey,
hang on one second, I just pull out my big winds
and start doing video.
Speaker 3: Well, because you know what it was in Holly Creek
is you guys were like the sardines and the can.
Speaker 1: We were the sardines in the can.
Speaker 3: Well, not that I'm saying that you would have been
pulled out and eaten, but you know what I'm saying,
you never know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a That is why there's a pump
action shotgun in the car. And yeah, as forty five automatic.
That is why we had the doors locked. Yeah, and
I don't think they figured out how to grab the handle,
and you know whatever I mean. I know David, David's
been at Pat May's and then they had their one
of their in law's little campers and he said, something
stepped on stepped on the step and the whole camper
goes and then something jiggled, something jiggled the little handle
and then stepped off again, walked off. So you know,
little incidents like that kind of creeped me out because
like how are they gonna figure it out one day?
Speaker 3: You know, just you know, I don't know, I mean
a hazard to say. They probably do know how to
do that. It's just they also seem to have boundaries
and know not that this will create some kind of
a hysteria from the hairless things, you know, or maybe
they've tried it before and they've gotten a reaction. They
that was a little more than they expected.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I call I call it investigative behavior.
They're figuring things out there, like what happens this, Oh,
the the the little no hair humans react.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're screaming. Oh they ran screaming from these ten cans.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you know, I know, I know. David when
that night happened, David was asleep. He woke up and
it were well weirdness. Perry was in his tent snoring.
He was a bad snore. Yeah, he was snoring away.
But this thing came up to the David's camper, and
David said, when he grabbed his forty five and goes slowly,
it it let off the handle and he felt the
camp or go back. So he might have known what
he was doing, but he knew he was inside. He
was reacting. So they had a level of cautious cautiousness,
you know, of if I do this, that they react,
and so I need to maybe maybe I should mess
with this camper.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, well, look what happened in the first
encounter that you shared. A big foot dig get shot
so there.
Speaker 1: Their will to take What was that one? Yeah? What
was that one? Thinking like it's like, here's two humans
sitting at the fire. Okay, I mean the way he
described it is he just came out like he was
wanting to shake their hand, like just walking out with
you know, yeah, what his intentions were? Sorry, go ahead, Yeah, no,
I mean it was just kind of weird. It's like
they usually stay in the woodline and they and they
tried to interact from their comfort zone in the woodline,
but this dude just kind of walked on out, like hey,
what are you guys up to? And then they saw
it and shot it.
Speaker 3: It is it is entertaining to just bring the conjecture
into things. I mean, we don't know what in hell
is going on at all, and run from anyone who
acts like they do know. But no, that's why I
love the subject of bigfoot so much. But courts. Thank
you so much for coming on and sharing.
Speaker 1: Picks, for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope that because I mean we've been in
contact for quite a long while now, just on socials
of course, So I hope that you keep me informed
if anything else goes down, if you if you go
out and any other weird shisa is happening, I'm like,
I want to know.
Speaker 1: Well, you guys, you guys are down there, are doing
a great job. I'm glad I found you guys. It's
good to get see some Texas talent and see you know,
I've known people over the years, but you know, when
I discover new people that are doing a great job,
like you guys are doing involved not just Bigfoot, but
other stuff, other weird stuff going on. But yeah, I'm
in the process of since David Holly's passing, I'm in
the process of, I guess passing on the torch and
continuing Timberline Bigfoot research it with some new members and
some new photographers and videographers and start planning some stuff.
So I'll keep you informed.
Speaker 3: Excellent. Oh by the way, and if not, no big deal.
Do you do you have a Facebook group that you
want to shout out or anything that you need, you
want or I would like to plug.
Speaker 1: I don't for Timberline, but I do have the courtch
Griner photography, face uh YouTube and they can get if
people are interested in seeing some of the documentary work,
the video cinematic video work that I do, they can
go there and that that's you know, David stories in
my cover video. But I put a lot of the
cinematic research stuff that I put together and edit on that.
So that's like my I don't have a you know,
a thank for Timberline though.
Speaker 3: Okay, excellent. I will make sure to link that in
the show notes at Indofrey Radio dot com for that,
and thank you again. I really appreciate it quite thanks.
Speaker 1: For having me. You guys keep doing a good job.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm so and so.
Speaker 1: I was given a slave by my parents. My business.
Speaker 5: I've been out of college, I've done these things in
my profession.
Speaker 1: I produce a little bag.
Speaker 5: But it says forget.
Speaker 4: It, that's not.
Speaker 1: That's someone for story. That's all gone, that's all passed.
Speaker 5: I want to see them really you.
Speaker 7: You are now when nobody knows who their names because
we don't know ourselves except for listening to mauricas.
Speaker 5: And consulting on members. But then that's a really when
that again, it's expect this question.
Speaker 4: Who are you?
Speaker 3: That is the meaning.
Speaker 5: We shall see how they play with this.
Speaker 7: Except by the cos.
Speaker 1: Get you come out of the show.
Speaker 8: I'm on a less steps. It's that speaks.
Speaker 1: Send me more examples. Divide.
Speaker 5: They will say, no, we don't believe truly in reincarnation
that after your funeral grow you will saddenly became somebody different,
there being somewhere else. They will say, reincarnation means this
that if you're sitting here now, are really convinced that
you're the.
Speaker 7: Same person a boording at the door half an hour ago,
you'll be reincarnated if you're liberated.
Speaker 5: Very well as now that you're gone. The past hasn't
been tested, The future doesn't insistent.
Speaker 1: There is only the present. That's the only amenium that
there is.
Speaker 5: The zen Master will get in the space in the
same Spring does not become the south.
Speaker 1: First there is Samath.
Speaker 4: And then there is Spring.
Speaker 8: It's it's it's, it's, it's it's.
Speaker 7: Stass t sl Isn't that's the same idea.
Speaker 5: Where he says, when you settled down in the train
to read your newspapers and.
Speaker 1: You're not the same person.
Speaker 4: Uh the plan.
Speaker 5: If you think you are, you are linking your movements
up in the check and this is what binds the
wheel of both. When you know that every moment which
you are is the only moment this.
Speaker 1: Comes into is are The Master will.
Speaker 5: Say to somebody, I can have a bok across the
room and it can be back, and he.
Speaker 1: Says, where are your foot? They've gone? So where are you?
Speaker 4: Who are you?
Speaker 1: When we are asked who
Speaker 5: We are, we usually give a kind of recitation of
an industry in string for instence, insence