Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Well, today the second trial got started for real. We've
Speaker 2: been listening for months about various motions to dismiss and
Speaker 2: appeals on how the first trial ended. It was officially
Speaker 2: a hung jury, although some of the jurors claimed that
Speaker 2: they had agreed while seated as a jury that went
Speaker 2: all the way up to the US Supreme Court, went
Speaker 2: through the Court of Appeals here in Massachusetts, but to
Speaker 2: no avail, and so Karen Reid now faces a second
Speaker 2: trial for three charges, fully leave the scene of an accident, manslaughter,
Speaker 2: and murdering the second degree. So a lot of people
Speaker 2: have opinions on this case, and I thought this is
Speaker 2: the night when we could really talk about this from
Speaker 2: whatever perspective you want fairness obviously, there are things that
Speaker 2: all of us can agree upon, whatever side of the
Speaker 2: divide you stand on, whether you're on the Karen Reid
Speaker 2: side or the prosecution side. We do know that a
Speaker 2: man and Boston police officer lost his life. So that
Speaker 2: is something that I think we as society need need
Speaker 2: to figure out. And the way we figure that out
Speaker 2: is through jury trials and presentation of evidence in courtrooms. Again.
Speaker 2: This is a trial that has not only dominated the
Speaker 2: news here in New England, but once again is a
Speaker 2: national news story and in some respects an international news story.
Speaker 2: I know people in San Diego, California who listen to
Speaker 2: this program who are deeply invested in the trial. I
Speaker 2: don't know what happened that that that January morning. I
Speaker 2: don't know anyone who's listening knows exactly what happened for sure.
Speaker 2: For certain, we all have opinions. I have an opinion,
Speaker 2: but I don't view my opinion as a fact. Today,
Speaker 2: the prosecutor and the one of the defense attorneys, Alan Jackson,
Speaker 2: begin with their presentation. Now, uh, the prosecutors a fellow
Speaker 2: named Hank Brennan. He's primarily a defense attorney, has made
Speaker 2: his reputation as a defense attorney and was brought in
Speaker 2: as a special prosecutor. He was not involved in the
Speaker 2: first prosecution. He's brought in as a special prosecutor in
Speaker 2: this case. And he made his presentation and unfortunately, the
Speaker 2: audio I'm not sure if he was standing away from
Speaker 2: the microphones, but the audio is is difficult to hear.
Speaker 2: But I do want to play a little bit in
Speaker 2: fairness to him, the audio from Alan Jackson is much better.
Speaker 2: This we're gonna first start off Rob. This again is
Speaker 2: the prosecutor, Hank Brennan, talking about Karen Reid's actions, in
Speaker 2: which she she discloses to mutual friend that she thinks
Speaker 2: John got hit her boyfriend, John O'Keefe got hit by
Speaker 2: a plow. Again. I wish the audio was better, So
Speaker 2: we'll just play this. This is cut twenty A. Please
Speaker 2: listen carefully, okay. Twenty eight Rob, she got.
Speaker 3: Manslated, calls another purse, Kerry Roberts, a friend of John O'Keeffe.
Speaker 3: Some of those not friends with defendant, but they know
Speaker 3: because they helped raise the kids. When they interacted. She
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the night before, wasn't at
Speaker 3: the bars, was home with her family. She calls her
Speaker 3: and says, I think John hit by a plow.
Speaker 4: I think he said.
Speaker 5: I'll start with that in.
Speaker 3: Call hospitals. Hear her voice, man, and then he gives
Speaker 3: not a call on a bit of bank and he
Speaker 3: tells me the ban comes.
Speaker 2: To my house.
Speaker 3: I will help you most him and I I don't
Speaker 3: remember anything.
Speaker 2: Okay. So that's the prosecutor. I want to play a
Speaker 2: little bit of the defense lawyer, Alan Jackson, who was
Speaker 2: the defense lawyer in the first case. He wanted the
Speaker 2: defense lawyers and he he has some some interesting comments here.
Speaker 2: He speaks about this case as definitively as he can
Speaker 2: that basically his argument in this case is made up
Speaker 2: out of whole cloth, and it was an effort to
Speaker 2: convict an innocent woman and to cover up the actual
Speaker 2: circumstances that led to the death of John O'Keefe. Let's start,
Speaker 2: if we can, with cut number twenty seven. Please rob
Speaker 2: cut twenty seven. This is the defense attorney.
Speaker 6: You will learn that John did not have a single
Speaker 6: injury consistent with being.
Speaker 1: Hit by a car.
Speaker 6: Let me say that again. The evidence will establish that
Speaker 6: John did not suffer a single injury on his body
Speaker 6: consistent with having been hit by a car, not one.
Speaker 6: You'll learn that John's torso, his ribs, his chest, his arms,
Speaker 6: his hips, his legs, his knees, his ankles, his feet,
Speaker 6: all of them. No broken bones, no fractures, no contusions,
Speaker 6: no torn ligaments, no internal injuries, not even a bruise.
Speaker 2: Alan Jackson, he goes what essentially the argument that he
Speaker 2: wants to make is that John O'Keeffe went into the
Speaker 2: home where he was dropped off that night by Karen Reid,
Speaker 2: and that something happened inside the home, and that when
Speaker 2: John O'Keeffe was found, he had what looked like bite
Speaker 2: marks on his arm. So this is cut injury number
Speaker 2: twenty eight.
Speaker 6: Please, Rob, we'll take one look at these injuries and
Speaker 6: you'll agree with doctor Lafasata. The evidence will show that
Speaker 6: these injuries are from an animal, like a large dog,
Speaker 6: like the large dog that was inside the Albert house
Speaker 6: that night. You'll learn that Brian Albert has actually admitted
Speaker 6: that his large dog, the family dog, is quote not
Speaker 6: good with strangers, and of course John, ever having been
Speaker 6: to the house before, was this.
Speaker 7: Stranger that night.
Speaker 6: You'll also learned that oddly, very oddly, after having their
Speaker 6: family pet for seven years, a short time after this incident,
Speaker 6: the Albert's got rid of that dog. They called it
Speaker 6: rehoming her, but she was gone.
Speaker 2: And then the final SoundBite that I want to play
Speaker 2: from Alan Jackson, and again the audio on his presentation
Speaker 2: is clearer, so you'll understand his arguments pretty succinctly completely.
Speaker 2: This is his final comments to the jury today. Cut
Speaker 2: number thirty Robin.
Speaker 6: By the end of this trial, you'll conclude that Karen
Speaker 6: Reid is not guilty of hitting John O'Keefe with her SUV.
Speaker 6: There was no collision. She's the victim of a botched
Speaker 6: and biased and corrupted investigation that was never about the truth, folks,
Speaker 6: it was about preserving loyalty. You'll find that this case
Speaker 6: is the very definition of reasonable doubt. And at the
Speaker 6: end of this trial, we'll ask you to return the
Speaker 6: only verdicts, all three of them, that are consistent with
Speaker 6: the evidence, the science, the truth, and justice. Not guilty,
Speaker 6: not guilty, not guilty.
Speaker 2: Now, the prosecutor, Hank Brennan has in his arsenal in
Speaker 2: this retrial statements that Karen Reid made during some television
Speaker 2: interviews she made voluntarily, which in the last hour Phil
Speaker 2: Tracy was alluding to, which were not available because she
Speaker 2: made these comments between trial the ending of trial one
Speaker 2: in the beginning of trial number two. So it's going
Speaker 2: to be an interesting trial. And I would like to
Speaker 2: know if there's anywhere else anyone out there tonight who
Speaker 2: does not have an opinion on this. If you want
Speaker 2: to express your opinion, you are more than welcome. But
Speaker 2: if there's anyone out there tonight who is either so
Speaker 2: confused that you do not have an opinion as to
Speaker 2: what happened, or or if you have an opinion either way.
Speaker 2: Six seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, nine,
Speaker 2: three one ten thirty. This has been just an extraordinary
Speaker 2: trial to follow. It is now national and international news.
Speaker 2: I have no idea how this is trial is going
Speaker 2: to come out. I know many of you are convinced
Speaker 2: that it's going to come out one way or the other.
Speaker 2: If you have had that conviction, you like to join
Speaker 2: the conversation. Great. As the trial goes on, I'm sure
Speaker 2: we are going to continue to follow the resus else
Speaker 2: on a daily basis, and that there will be uh
Speaker 2: developments uh and and surprises uh and uh and witnesses
Speaker 2: that uh that that may pull you back and forth.
Speaker 2: But let's start with a relatively clean slate tonight and
Speaker 2: see what my listeners think. Six one seven, two, four
Speaker 2: ten thirty, six one seven, nine three ten thirty. This
Speaker 2: is nightside and we're not trying the case. But man,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this is I cannot I cannot remember
Speaker 2: a case in New England that drew as much interest
Speaker 2: as this one, and and I'd love to talk about
Speaker 2: it with you back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: It's night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, the only line that is open is six, one, seven, nine,
Speaker 2: ten thirty. We have a guest coming up at ten o'clock,
Speaker 2: so don't don't be shy if you want to jump
Speaker 2: on board and talk about this. We will close this
Speaker 2: part of the conversation up at by ten. So some people,
Speaker 2: I think Rob has told me'd like to wait until
Speaker 2: like ten of the hours so they get the last
Speaker 2: word in. Well, you won't get in with the last
Speaker 2: word tonight. Let me go to Grant and Belmont. Greg
Speaker 2: you're a next your first this hour night Side. Thanks
Speaker 2: for getting us going, Grant, go right ahead.
Speaker 5: Thanks for having the conversation.
Speaker 8: Dan.
Speaker 5: It's great to be back with you.
Speaker 6: Dan.
Speaker 5: This trial has captivated America. But what I noticed today
Speaker 5: was two things. One Karen Reid was down to about
Speaker 5: twenty five supporters, and two, Hank Brennan is a different
Speaker 5: prosecutor than Adam Lally, and I thought he presented a
Speaker 5: case with no notes that a jury could buy.
Speaker 2: Well, I have a lot of faith in Hank Brennan's
Speaker 2: ability as a lawyer. I thought Jackson did a great
Speaker 2: job as well. Well. I will tell you the audio
Speaker 2: levels that I have to deal with tonight. I can
Speaker 2: play a little bit more of the Hank Brennan presentation,
Speaker 2: but to be honest with you, the audio is not
Speaker 2: nearly as it should be. Let me play one more
Speaker 2: SoundBite here from from the prosecutor in the case, and
Speaker 2: let me Rob just trying to be fair here, but
Speaker 2: it is much tougher to listen to. I want you
Speaker 2: to react to it for me, grant. This is cut
Speaker 2: number twenty three. Rob.
Speaker 3: I simply asked you to follow the evidence, follow the signs,
Speaker 3: follow the day, ignore speculation and surmise conjecture. Stay true
Speaker 3: to the evidence.
Speaker 1: It will lead you through the truth.
Speaker 3: That on Ganoid twenty nine twenty twenty two are very prosecuted.
Speaker 3: And was angry and arguing about the relationship up with
Speaker 3: John O'Keefe. And after the fight was over, she left,
Speaker 3: but she brought the fight back hand the.
Speaker 5: Form of her SUV.
Speaker 3: She clipped him and fell backwards.
Speaker 1: He broke his head.
Speaker 3: And then this man who helped a lifetime of help
Speaker 3: was left help the fascinata in the dance moving into
Speaker 3: the truth and it defends all words from everything he looted.
Speaker 2: What I didn't understand about that, Grant, was he he
Speaker 2: implied that they had had an argument, uh, and that
Speaker 2: she brought the argument back to him, I guess by
Speaker 2: backing into him or clipping him with the SUV. It
Speaker 2: was a little vague from I wanted to know more
Speaker 2: with much more specificity, you know, if he felt that,
Speaker 2: you know, she had put the car in. My thought
Speaker 2: is that the car might have been inadvertently in reverse
Speaker 2: and she went to you know, to drive away quickly
Speaker 2: and inadvertently backed up. But maybe he did not want
Speaker 2: to make that concession because that could take away that
Speaker 2: that would that would leave her open to manslaughter, but
Speaker 2: would take away theoretically that the the secondary murdered murder.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Dan, absolutely, And I can give you a little
Speaker 5: context there, which is that Karen was cheating on John
Speaker 5: in the relationship.
Speaker 2: So please do me a favor as long if this
Speaker 2: evidence look you know again, please don't do that to me. Okay,
Speaker 2: if evidence has been put in in the case, I
Speaker 2: have no idea what your source on that is, Grant. Uh.
Speaker 2: And therefore, as the judge here on nights side, I'm
Speaker 2: going to not allow that.
Speaker 5: In go ahead, Well, I promise you it's in the
Speaker 5: evidentiary record, Dan, I would when.
Speaker 2: When it when it when it appears during this trial.
Speaker 2: When it when it is in the record in this trial.
Speaker 2: And someone wants to bring it up, that's okay. But
Speaker 2: I do not want it to be brought up. You know,
Speaker 2: I I followed the didn't follow it as closely as
Speaker 2: you did. I know that there was some jealousies and
Speaker 2: all of that. I just I'm not going to go there, Grant,
Speaker 2: because it's it's it's not fair to my audience.
Speaker 4: But that's there, Dan.
Speaker 5: And I'll just conclude by saying, I think what Brennan
Speaker 5: was saying was the two were in an argument. Karen
Speaker 5: Reid's blood alcohol was point one three to two point
Speaker 5: two nine, and there's data showing the car collided with John.
Speaker 5: That's enough for a conviction.
Speaker 2: Okay, So you you believe in the conviction again. I
Speaker 2: you know again, I know that there were folks I
Speaker 2: know who you are, and I know that there are
Speaker 2: folks out there who followed this case very closely, which
Speaker 2: you know I admire. But until it comes in in
Speaker 2: evidence in the second trial, the trial that Hank Brennan
Speaker 2: is going to put on. I don't want it on
Speaker 2: my show, so we'll just well let it go with that.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your call and feel free to call again. Thanks,
Speaker 2: Thanks Gren, Thanks Jan, have a great night. Let me
Speaker 2: keep rolling. You're going to go to John and Kingston.
Speaker 2: John Welcome. How are you sir?
Speaker 4: How you doing Dan?
Speaker 2: I'm doing fine. Trying to control trying to control this
Speaker 2: a quoted public opinion.
Speaker 4: This whole thing, Like what I know, everyone gets behind
Speaker 4: all this. What was his toxicology and what did he
Speaker 4: actually die of? Was it blunt force trauma? Was he
Speaker 4: in the bag with the drugs in the system. It
Speaker 4: seems odd that someone going to back into him he
Speaker 4: falls over and just doesn't get up from the snow.
Speaker 2: Well again, I I don't know, and I'm interested to
Speaker 2: see what the you know, what what trial? What the
Speaker 2: trial is? What what evidence comes in at the trial? Okay,
Speaker 2: that's that's the only thing the jury is supposed to hear.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this jury is a questioned I
Speaker 2: don't believe. I haven't heard anything that it has that
Speaker 2: it has been sequestered. So you know, let's you know,
Speaker 2: let's see what happens as we go. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know the first trial was there was it
Speaker 4: a system? Was he you know?
Speaker 2: I don't know that that a so called blood blood
Speaker 2: back of blood alcohol content was done on Reid or
Speaker 2: other on John O'Keeffe. This video that I saw, they
Speaker 2: were both apparently drinking at a bar. And if they
Speaker 2: drink it at a bar, I assume they it includes alcohol.
Speaker 2: There was no suggestion that either one of them were
Speaker 2: just drinking you know, Lime Ricky's or something like that,
Speaker 2: if anybody remembers Lime Ricky's. But no, it's uh, something happened.
Speaker 2: What we know is that one individual is dead. Someone's dead,
Speaker 2: and the prosecution obviously believes that Karen Reid was the
Speaker 2: cause of his death. Uh. The the defense is trying
Speaker 2: to make the argument that O'Keeffe winning the house, some
Speaker 2: sort of a fight ensued and he was attacked by
Speaker 2: individuals and or a dog. But my question has always been,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if if you want to react
Speaker 2: to this, my question has always been, if he was
Speaker 2: killed in the house and there were a bunch of
Speaker 2: other people there, including police officers, would someone turn around
Speaker 2: and say, I got a great idea, let's get him
Speaker 2: out of the house and put plant him on the
Speaker 2: front lawn.
Speaker 4: I get it, But what was his actual cause of death?
Speaker 4: Was it like blunt for sir?
Speaker 2: Uh? Well, there will be autopsy results. I don't know,
Speaker 2: and if someone you know again, I'm sure that there'll
Speaker 2: be medical officials on the stand. Uh, medical experts.
Speaker 4: I don't get. I'll get the whole. However, one's all
Speaker 4: infatuated by it, you know. Yeah, well that people get behind.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I mean, well, obviously there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people out there who are convinced that she's being framed.
Speaker 2: And then there's a lot of people out there who
Speaker 2: convince it was her vehicle. They buy the prosecution case
Speaker 2: that her vehicle backed into him, either inadvertently or intentionally.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I don't know that that there's
Speaker 2: there's gonna be no videotape which is going to prove
Speaker 2: to us. You know, a jury will come back with
Speaker 2: a decision, But there's no videotape. It wasn't like there
Speaker 2: was a camera uh trained on the front of the
Speaker 2: house that night, and we can look at the camera
Speaker 2: and we can see what happened.
Speaker 4: Mixed bag for the jury again.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm kind of thinking that as well. I
Speaker 2: think that the jurors might say, we we need to
Speaker 2: come back with some decision here and maybe again, but they.
Speaker 4: Will we don't really, we can't tell either way. So therefore, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, figure it out. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know that they I don't know that we're
Speaker 2: gonna get a second hung jury. That's I I kind.
Speaker 4: Of think of guarantee if there is one, they'll definitely
Speaker 4: pull the jury this time.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I would say, I would think. I think
Speaker 2: I think you're right on that. John. Thank you very
Speaker 2: much for your call. As always, I appreciated, have a
Speaker 2: great talk again. Thanks. Okay, here comes the news a
Speaker 2: couple of minutes late, but I didn't want a short change, John,
Speaker 2: so we'll be back on night side. I have one
Speaker 2: line which John just vacated six one, seven, two five four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty, and I have one line at six one seven,
Speaker 2: nine three one ten thirty. Uh. This is a it's
Speaker 2: a big case. It's been a case that's going on
Speaker 2: a long time. I haven't figured it out. Maybe you have.
Speaker 2: We'll be back on nightside after this.
Speaker 1: It's Nightside with w Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: Thanks shre You know it's interesting. The only only person
Speaker 2: who really, I guess, knows what happened for certain is
Speaker 2: Karen Reid. And if she really believes, as I apparently
Speaker 2: think she does, that she's innocent, that she did nothing
Speaker 2: to hurt John O'Keefe, Boy, what an experience this has
Speaker 2: been for her. And who knows where the jury where
Speaker 2: the jury will come out in a few weeks from now.
Speaker 2: If if she's if she in her in her soul
Speaker 2: knows that that she did, in a moment of anger,
Speaker 2: do something that she now regrets. What a burden that
Speaker 2: is it. I mean, we all make mistakes in life,
Speaker 2: but this is a huge mistake in some form of fashion,
Speaker 2: and it's up to the courts, in twelve jurors to
Speaker 2: figure it out. And that is something to think of
Speaker 2: the next time that you get real angry. I guess
Speaker 2: as I have, and as I think most of us
Speaker 2: have at some point, Alex and millis Alex next on nights,
Speaker 2: I go ahead.
Speaker 6: Guilty or.
Speaker 7: Oh you're still there?
Speaker 2: He yeah, I am. Were you on some sort of
Speaker 2: device or something?
Speaker 7: Oh no, I got distracted. I'm sorry, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: Okay, you you sounded off microphone. I wasn't sure if
Speaker 2: you were on some sort of different device.
Speaker 7: Oh no, no, no it was it was something going
Speaker 7: on in the other room, and I wasn't sure. So anyway,
Speaker 7: what I'm offering you, I.
Speaker 2: Don't understand that. But that's okay. You were talking but
Speaker 2: we weren't able to hear you.
Speaker 7: Well, so go ahead, okay, okay, I jumped the gun.
Speaker 7: So aren't they able to extract data from the SUV?
Speaker 2: Because yeah, that's that is something that the prosecution. That
Speaker 2: is something that the prosecution has implied that they have,
Speaker 2: and that sort of forensics could be very important in
Speaker 2: this trial, depending upon what that data says.
Speaker 7: Obviously, right and fast forward. So, if she is found
Speaker 7: out guilty or if there is a hung jury, the
Speaker 7: money that she's raised the legal defense fund, and if
Speaker 7: she becomes very wealthy because of this, will she be
Speaker 7: obligated to pay that back? Do you think?
Speaker 2: No? No? First of all, I think that whatever money
Speaker 2: has been raised for her, her legal firepower will more
Speaker 2: than eat up that money. These are not inexpensive lawyers
Speaker 2: who are representing her. And even if there's some money
Speaker 2: left over if if she's able to spend it, meaning
Speaker 2: if she gets in guilty verdict, I think she certainly
Speaker 2: would deserve some time off to resurrect your life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: interesting question.
Speaker 7: Yeah, they say, you know, they make you make your
Speaker 7: bed and you lie in it. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 7: I don't know. She's an never She's supposed to be
Speaker 7: a very intelligent woman. I'm not trying to. I'm not
Speaker 7: trying to.
Speaker 2: You know, she is an intelligent woman. She she taught
Speaker 2: I believe, was it accounting or something like that at
Speaker 2: Babson if I'm not mistaken of one of the Yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah, clearly she's an intelligent woman. But intelligent people
Speaker 2: sometimes do stupid things.
Speaker 7: Yeah, how do you get yourself involved with these things?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 7: Or certain people?
Speaker 2: I don't get it, well, Alex. Intelligent people have been
Speaker 2: known to do stupid things, and people who are under
Speaker 2: the influence of alcohol sometimes exercise poor judgment. And sometimes
Speaker 2: when you mix in emotions, they say, you know, a
Speaker 2: fine line, a thin line between love and hate. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: you know, it's I think you're experienced enough to be
Speaker 2: able to understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: I know, thanks, thank.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think yeah, the nuns gave you probably
Speaker 2: if you talk by nuns. I gave you good advice
Speaker 2: to avoid occasions of sin. I got you. Thanks Alex,
Speaker 2: Doc deal later. Have a great night, Gail and Siduate. Gail,
Speaker 2: thank you for that lovely magazine that you sent me
Speaker 2: with all sorts of chocolate recipes.
Speaker 9: Oh you're welcome.
Speaker 2: Dan. Just reading it, just just reading it, I put
Speaker 2: on I think three pounds. I never only teasing.
Speaker 9: I know, I know what you mean. I went through
Speaker 9: it myself. I thought, oh my lord, oh my lordy.
Speaker 9: So when I saw it, I thought, I go.
Speaker 7: I send this to Dan.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 9: You're welcome. So Dan, I have followed the case a
Speaker 9: little bit, not entirely. And the one thing that keeps
Speaker 9: making me think, you know, I keep wondering about is
Speaker 9: how John O'Keefe got outside and why was he outside?
Speaker 9: So he goes into the Albert's house. It's clearly evident
Speaker 9: that he was attacked by the Albert's dog, which I
Speaker 9: believe was the German shepherd. And when you get attacked
Speaker 9: by a dog like that, it's pretty traumatic. So he
Speaker 9: goes outside somehow, and Alan Jackson even said there was
Speaker 9: no bodily injury to him whatsoever. So Alan Jackson needs
Speaker 9: to get hold of that autopsy report. The autopsy report,
Speaker 9: it's going to explain everything that I think. There's a
Speaker 9: possibility maybe he had a heart attack or aneurysm, and
Speaker 9: then he's left out in the snow, he you know,
Speaker 9: falls back and guys of hypothermia, which adds to it.
Speaker 9: I mean, I'm just I think that autopsy report is
Speaker 9: gonna is going to explain plenty.
Speaker 2: Well, that's true, But then the question is, let's assume
Speaker 2: that he did go into the house. Make that assumption
Speaker 2: for a moment, and let's assume that you're right that
Speaker 2: the dog bit him or jumped at him, and maybe,
Speaker 2: you know, the normal reaction of a dog owner is
Speaker 2: to try to pull the dog off. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: what normally would happen. And let's assume everybody's had a
Speaker 2: few drinks and he's mad, I'm going to get the
Speaker 2: hell out of here, and he walks outside and he
Speaker 2: let's assume, you know, he has some sort of stroke
Speaker 2: or whatever you want to you know, aneurysm, whatever, right, right,
Speaker 2: Why would then the people who were in the house,
Speaker 2: even if they didn't have the good sense to go
Speaker 2: out and check and make sure. And when you walk
Speaker 2: when he walked away, I mean, wouldn't someone say, hey,
Speaker 2: where you're going? You know, you need a ride somewhere?
Speaker 2: I mean, assuming that there was no hostility, right, and
Speaker 2: why would they not have at least said, yeah, he
Speaker 2: came in the house and our dog attacked him. It's
Speaker 2: not our fault that the dog is very protective. No,
Speaker 2: they they all testified he never came in the house.
Speaker 9: Albert's testified he did not. John o'keef did not go
Speaker 9: in the house.
Speaker 2: I believe and again I believe that the police report
Speaker 2: that Proctor put together, uh suggested that that that he
Speaker 2: never had gone in the house. I don't think there's
Speaker 2: any evidence. Look, if there was any evidence that he
Speaker 2: went in the house, if there was any evidence that
Speaker 2: he went in the house, why is Karen Reid on trial?
Speaker 9: Right, Well, we cannot go by what Proctor said in
Speaker 9: his report because he's not credible enough. You know, he
Speaker 9: would say that the boogeyman exists. We have to, like
Speaker 9: I think, we have to take Proctor out of the
Speaker 9: picture because in order for the only well, what we
Speaker 9: know is that he had bite marks from an animal
Speaker 9: from a dog on his arm. Alan Jackson said that,
Speaker 9: so somehow John o'keef came into contact with the Albert's
Speaker 9: dog and so ended up outside. So that's where it's
Speaker 9: that's where the question is. And I think that I
Speaker 9: really think that that that oh god, what's it called again?
Speaker 9: The report? The oh, I forgot the name of the report.
Speaker 2: Autopsy autopsy, Jackson is saying. Jackson said he had no
Speaker 2: other injuries. Okay, So so let's assume that he was
Speaker 2: Let's let's keep it simple. Well, let's let's let's let's
Speaker 2: say that he's that she drives off, doesn't hit him,
Speaker 2: and he's so drunk, hypothetically that he falls down in
Speaker 2: the snow. Okay, And and let's assume that you know,
Speaker 2: maybe you know, he just fell in the snow, and
Speaker 2: there could be any animal out there at night that
Speaker 2: could be out there, could be a fox or whatever.
Speaker 2: But let's assume why would the why would the the
Speaker 2: Alberts or whomever was in that house. Someone should have
Speaker 2: should have gone on the record and said, look, never
Speaker 2: came in the house. I mean, if they have nothing
Speaker 2: to hide, okay. And I'm not saying that they did anything.
Speaker 2: But you would think that at some point, well, I'm
Speaker 2: saying that at some point Proctor would have would have,
Speaker 2: you know, filed the report. I don't know all the
Speaker 2: specifics of the case, but but you would you think
Speaker 2: it's either he got hit by the car or he
Speaker 2: went in the house and something bad happened and he
Speaker 2: got put out in the lawn. I think those are
Speaker 2: the two options. Would you agree?
Speaker 9: Well, I'm not sure if I can, because the Alberts
Speaker 9: could be lying. They could be lying just to stay
Speaker 9: out of it.
Speaker 2: No, but I'm saying there's only no what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: there's only whoa. But but if he never came in
Speaker 2: the house and and the police found someone dead on
Speaker 2: by lawn tomorrow morning, I would be out there and saying,
Speaker 2: what the hell's going on?
Speaker 4: Pretend?
Speaker 9: So let's pretend that John o'keef did not go in
Speaker 9: the Elbert's house, and somehow the dog was outside. He
Speaker 9: gets attacked by the dog, German shepherd, big dog, you know,
Speaker 9: heavy bite, the heavy bite, uh pressure, that's going to
Speaker 9: leave a mark on your arm. So he gets the
Speaker 9: he gets the bite marks from the dog which is
Speaker 9: probably outside, and then somehow in some maybe drunken, stupidor
Speaker 9: he falls and that's when he's that's how he gets outside.
Speaker 9: Well he's outside anyway, and that's how he ends up
Speaker 9: on the snow. But I really think that autopsy report
Speaker 9: is going to tell everything.
Speaker 2: Well, let's let us hope, let us hope. Gail always
Speaker 2: great to talk to me here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You've you've maybe confused some people and confused me a
Speaker 2: little bit, but but you've you've raised really good questions
Speaker 2: and I really do appreciate. Let's focus on the autopsy report. Uh,
Speaker 2: maybe I'll do a little research on that and try
Speaker 2: to find out what was entered during in the first trial.
Speaker 2: In that, Okay, well on the.
Speaker 9: Second ten how old was John Keith? Was he in
Speaker 9: his forties?
Speaker 2: I think somewhere in that. I'm just.
Speaker 9: Like, once you get if he was like forty five
Speaker 9: and above, you know, once you get past forty five,
Speaker 9: anything can happen. So I'm listening. It's a possibility he
Speaker 9: could have had a heart attack on aneurysm, and and
Speaker 9: you know, yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Comes back to injury, back to the autopsy. Certainly it
Speaker 2: was a sudden death. There should be an autopsy and
Speaker 2: we'll try to figure out what that says. I gotta run, Gail.
Speaker 2: I thank you so much. We'll talk soon. Okay, you're
Speaker 2: gonna join us on Sunday at.
Speaker 8: The brunch or no, I'm sorry, I can't.
Speaker 2: Okay, no problem, no problem, gonna have a big crowd anyway,
Speaker 2: Thanks Gail, talk to you soon. Quick break here on Nightside,
Speaker 2: coming right back.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Okay, back to the phones to go. We're gonna try
Speaker 2: to get everybody in the lake callers. I don't think
Speaker 2: you're gonna make it. Let me go to Paul in Dorchester.
Speaker 2: Paul next on Nightside.
Speaker 10: Go ahead, Hey Dan, can you tell me the investigators
Speaker 10: ever enter the premises the of the home?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 10: Or no?
Speaker 2: My recollect And again I'm not an expert in this case.
Speaker 2: Is that Proctor, Michael Proctor never went into the house. Okay,
Speaker 2: now as an investigator.
Speaker 10: Okay, that's okay, that's one thing. Now, how did all
Speaker 10: the cell phones get disposed of? They was destroyed? They
Speaker 10: were okay, whatever happened was the dog Chloe? How do
Speaker 10: you get me.
Speaker 2: When I guess the phrase they used that Chloe was rehomed.
Speaker 2: I don't know if Chloe is alive today. I don't
Speaker 2: know if Chloe has gone on to that big dog
Speaker 2: pound in the sky. I really don't know.
Speaker 10: I bet, I bet Chloe had a new bright smile,
Speaker 10: at least I was. I was would not be funny
Speaker 10: he came in with a human smile, you know, I
Speaker 10: guess I think the dog disappeared? Now did they not
Speaker 10: sell that at home? And also they refurnished the floor of.
Speaker 2: That I read stuff like that, But I read stuff
Speaker 2: like that, but again I don't have I haven't followed
Speaker 2: this trial as closely as I as I would like.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping people like you either ask questions or provide information.
Speaker 2: That's that's the injury tonight.
Speaker 10: The injury seem inconsistent with getting backed into buy a car.
Speaker 10: If you get bumped by a car, you may get
Speaker 10: a bump in like one spot and fell got in
Speaker 10: his head. But like the woman was saying, I don't
Speaker 10: see how the puncture wounds were there from from that?
Speaker 10: How and also how the in the in the tail
Speaker 10: light they had it backwards in the auto shopped them
Speaker 10: and and and the dog disappeared. That's what gets me,
Speaker 10: Man how can you get rid of your dog after
Speaker 10: eight years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I don't I don't quite understand, Paul,
Speaker 2: I got a bunch of others. Isn't going to try
Speaker 2: to get a couple more in at least? Okay? Thanks man,
Speaker 2: We ready to smiled. You raised the questions. You raised
Speaker 2: the questions, and it raised them.
Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 2: Thank you, John and hanover John next on nightside, A
Speaker 2: little tight on time, Go ahead.
Speaker 4: John, Hey, Dan, good evening.
Speaker 11: I was a witness at a trial once in Quincy
Speaker 11: District Court. I was the only witness and vendant was
Speaker 11: a buddy of mine, and I'll tell you twenty years later.
Speaker 5: He was innocent.
Speaker 11: But someone in the case knew the district attorney of
Speaker 11: someone in their office, so they brought someone in from
Speaker 11: Middlesex to prosecute, and it was our governor more heally
Speaker 11: at the time this kid got convicted. It forever shook
Speaker 11: my faith in our judicial system, because I know he
Speaker 11: wasna Yeah what.
Speaker 2: Was he convicted of? Without you don't give me much
Speaker 2: information about you know, his name or anything, but what
Speaker 2: what was he? What was he charged with?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 11: It was the charge was domestic He was my roommate.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 4: We had a mutual friend.
Speaker 7: She came all over.
Speaker 4: I thought she was I thought I was getting lucky.
Speaker 4: It turned out to be a setup.
Speaker 11: It was his ex girlfriend and he came home and
Speaker 11: she beat him up a little bit, and he picked
Speaker 11: her up and put her outside the door and then
Speaker 11: just stared me down, you know, And it was just
Speaker 11: it's one of those things.
Speaker 2: She was assumed. Did she not testify? You were a witness?
Speaker 2: Did she not testify?
Speaker 11: No, she didn't. She she called it in like a
Speaker 11: couple of days later, her father called us and gave
Speaker 11: us a heads up. My roommate and her were both
Speaker 11: kind of, I don't want to say disturbed, but they
Speaker 11: had some emotional problems in high school.
Speaker 4: That's how they met.
Speaker 2: Uh was your roommate and was your roommate male or female?
Speaker 4: He was a male and she was a female.
Speaker 2: So so if how did they get how did they
Speaker 2: get the evidence in? If she didn't testify.
Speaker 11: It was a statement that they brought forth. But the
Speaker 11: whole point was they brought me forth as a witness,
Speaker 11: the only one. And I was indifferent because I had
Speaker 11: thrown him out because he owed me money for rent
Speaker 11: at that point, because it was a months later, and
Speaker 11: the way more heally conducted herself was like she was
Speaker 11: trying to sell a story to the jewelry and she
Speaker 11: didn't really care what I had to say at all,
Speaker 11: And it just I was founded.
Speaker 2: But it certainly, it certainly doesn't sound like it was
Speaker 2: something that should make the judicial system proud. John. Interesting, interesting,
Speaker 2: a little off topic, but very interesting. Thank you so much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: have a good night, you too. Mixed up last one
Speaker 2: of the hour, Chuck and Plymouth. Chuck, I got about
Speaker 2: a minute for you, would you Lake?
Speaker 8: Thank of my call. You know, I think Alan Jackson's
Speaker 8: done a great job of mutting the waters with with
Speaker 8: the Snell phones being destroyed and the floor being redone
Speaker 8: in the house being sold. But people need to follow
Speaker 8: the facts. So many people are like, oh my god,
Speaker 8: she has to be innocent because Procer lick through her
Speaker 8: phone for nudes.
Speaker 4: What a rude jerk.
Speaker 8: If they follow the facts, they could figure it out
Speaker 8: what I think happened in this case. If if he
Speaker 8: in anyway o'keith entered that house, and how did he
Speaker 8: get out if they dragged him outside he was dead.
Speaker 8: Don't you think he'd leave a plow from two guys
Speaker 8: carrying a man outside of the house. I think he
Speaker 8: got hit by the car, hit his head on the ground,
Speaker 8: and then I think a snowplow goosed him up on
Speaker 8: the sidewalk, and that's where he died, on the sidewalk,
Speaker 8: after a plow goosted him up there. But if the
Speaker 8: bottom line is this, like you said, either somebody went
Speaker 8: in the house, he went in the house and got
Speaker 8: beat or you hit on the car. And even you said,
Speaker 8: you said it best she wouldn't be on trial if
Speaker 8: he went in the house. How can all those people
Speaker 8: in the house keep a secret for this long? No,
Speaker 8: that one that one giving anything saying that, Oh my god,
Speaker 8: I just saw that.
Speaker 2: That's that's that's a strong argument. And what do you plan?
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know it just neither story. Really,
Speaker 2: there's nothing that's clear cut here. So let's let's hope
Speaker 2: the evidence is presented more effectively by both sides. Hey, Chuck,
Speaker 2: I appreciate.
Speaker 4: Thanks man.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Chock. That's it. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: about tariffs. Unfortunately, those of you who are still on
Speaker 2: the line, I told you Paul earlier, you're not going
Speaker 2: to get on because we got the ten o'clock news.
Speaker 2: Back on night Side, We're going to talk about tariffs
Speaker 2: with a Boston University business professor from their business school.
Speaker 2: He's a really good we'll we'll introduce you to him
Speaker 2: right after this