WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Now one of your pudding.

2
00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I got a string going on here, something just because

3
00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.320
<v Speaker 2>my dog. Something killed your dog. My dog.

4
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.320
<v Speaker 1>We're flying through the air over the tree. I don't

5
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:14.400
<v Speaker 1>know how it did it, Okay, damn, I'm really confused.

6
00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:16.480
<v Speaker 2>All I saw was my dog coming over the fence

7
00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and he was dead. And once you hit the.

8
00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.359
<v Speaker 3>Ground like, I didn't see any cars.

9
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:21.320
<v Speaker 2>All I saw was my dog coming over the fence.

10
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Sat what are you putting? We got some wonder or

11
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:51.920
<v Speaker 2>something crawling around out here? Did you see what it was?

12
00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:52.240
<v Speaker 3>Or was it was?

13
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.719
<v Speaker 2>Standing enough? I'm out here looking through the window now

14
00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:57.479
<v Speaker 2>and I don't see anything. I don't want to go outside.

15
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:04.799
<v Speaker 2>Jesus quice, you better Hello, hit the boddy out here,

16
00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:06.079
<v Speaker 2>quinn on out there.

17
00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:08.480
<v Speaker 1>I thought of a bit just about taking forty nine.

18
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know easy ann ount there. Yeah, I'm buking right.

19
00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Hey, all right, folks on, welcome our guest to the show.

20
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:19.920
<v Speaker 1>It is Richard HadAM, screenwriter and podcast extraordinary. Welcome to

21
00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:20.480
<v Speaker 1>the show, sir.

22
00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:21.959
<v Speaker 2>Hey, how's it going? Man?

23
00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:24.599
<v Speaker 1>I am good. It is so good to have you

24
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.799
<v Speaker 1>on the show. We met back in September up at

25
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.799
<v Speaker 1>the Mothman Festival in Point Pleasant, West Virginia. It was

26
00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:34.319
<v Speaker 1>great to see you and your lovely wife there. You

27
00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.920
<v Speaker 1>were a featured speaker at that event, and we came through,

28
00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:39.719
<v Speaker 1>bought a couple of things from you, and got to

29
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:41.719
<v Speaker 1>hang out with you lo and behold, here you are

30
00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:44.319
<v Speaker 1>about a month later on the show. It is great

31
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to have you here. So let's jump right into it.

32
00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.640
<v Speaker 1>I was unaware that was your first time attending that

33
00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:54.959
<v Speaker 1>festival in Point Pleasant, West Virginia, so I think.

34
00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:55.799
<v Speaker 2>We should start there.

35
00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.599
<v Speaker 1>How did that come about and how did you end

36
00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.200
<v Speaker 1>up there at the same time we were there.

37
00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was definitely my first time. In fact, I'm

38
00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.359
<v Speaker 2>looking at the date right now, it was a month

39
00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:10.719
<v Speaker 2>ago today and it feels like it was ten years

40
00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:15.840
<v Speaker 2>ago already, doesn't It definitely does, Okay, So here's how

41
00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.400
<v Speaker 2>it happened, I think, and really this shouldn't be in question.

42
00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:22.039
<v Speaker 2>It was only six months ago when this whole thing started.

43
00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:26.680
<v Speaker 2>But I was on a podcast called High Strangeness and

44
00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:31.319
<v Speaker 2>Steve Ward is one of the hosts. And Steve Ward

45
00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:35.759
<v Speaker 2>is a guy who I believe lived in Illinois and

46
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:40.319
<v Speaker 2>then moved to Point Pleasant because of his interest in

47
00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:46.159
<v Speaker 2>the area and in the Mothman legend. He's quite schooled

48
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.120
<v Speaker 2>up on the history of that and John Keel and

49
00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:51.840
<v Speaker 2>all that stuff, so he reached out to me. I

50
00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.879
<v Speaker 2>did his podcast and it was in and around the

51
00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:57.280
<v Speaker 2>time I did that podcast, either on the podcast or

52
00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:59.879
<v Speaker 2>the next day or something, he was like, Hey, I'm

53
00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:03.199
<v Speaker 2>right here in Point Pleasant. I work with Jeff Walmsley,

54
00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:07.840
<v Speaker 2>who runs and created the Mothman Museum and he also

55
00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:12.240
<v Speaker 2>created the Mothman Festival. Do you want me to get

56
00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:15.199
<v Speaker 2>in touch with him and maybe you show up as

57
00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:19.120
<v Speaker 2>a guest in September. And it was the first time

58
00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:23.840
<v Speaker 2>that anyone from the festival itself had reached out. And

59
00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, okay, yeah, definitely. And I'd always

60
00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.360
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go. It had always been floating out there,

61
00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:35.199
<v Speaker 2>but because of school schedules and kids going back to

62
00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:39.439
<v Speaker 2>school in September and usually I'm working on a TV show,

63
00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:43.680
<v Speaker 2>September is a busy month. It just never seemed to

64
00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.960
<v Speaker 2>work out or be a super convenient time. But not

65
00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:49.759
<v Speaker 2>currently working on a TV show, and my youngest son

66
00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:52.879
<v Speaker 2>just graduated high school, so suddenly it was like, wait,

67
00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:56.360
<v Speaker 2>a second, September is totally fine. So on the spot,

68
00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.240
<v Speaker 2>I was like yes, I'll do it. I'm just going

69
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.479
<v Speaker 2>to commit six months ahead of time. And then I

70
00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:05.960
<v Speaker 2>creeped into my wife's office and said, Honey, is it

71
00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:10.680
<v Speaker 2>okay if we go to the Mothman Festival in September?

72
00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.599
<v Speaker 2>And she's yes, it is, so yay, let's do it.

73
00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:18.879
<v Speaker 2>And then we immediately set up a whole like we're

74
00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.680
<v Speaker 2>going there, let's do some live shows of the podcast.

75
00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.839
<v Speaker 2>So we made this whole plan. But yes, that is

76
00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.639
<v Speaker 2>how I ended up for the first time ever at

77
00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:29.759
<v Speaker 2>the Mothmad Festival.

78
00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:32.839
<v Speaker 1>I find that strange because people who may not be

79
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:37.319
<v Speaker 1>familiar with you and know your backstory. You wrote the

80
00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:42.879
<v Speaker 1>screenplay for the Mothman Prophecies back in the late nineties

81
00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:45.399
<v Speaker 1>early two thousands, So I guess the first question here

82
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.120
<v Speaker 1>for me in relation to that is what initially drew

83
00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:54.519
<v Speaker 1>you to that story of Mothman. Was it the mystery?

84
00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Was it the folklore, or was it the psychological tension

85
00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.839
<v Speaker 1>between belief and disbelief? What was it that drew you

86
00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:02.879
<v Speaker 1>to that story? That was the impetus for you to

87
00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:04.079
<v Speaker 1>write the screenplay?

88
00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:07.480
<v Speaker 2>It was all of that. Everything you just said played

89
00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.680
<v Speaker 2>a role. I think the book was probably one of

90
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.040
<v Speaker 2>the first books I ever read that dealt with the supernatural,

91
00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:20.279
<v Speaker 2>where the person writing the book suddenly becomes central to

92
00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.720
<v Speaker 2>the events that are happening. I don't think I'd never

93
00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:26.560
<v Speaker 2>read anything like that. It's like when I was really

94
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.160
<v Speaker 2>young and I read the Amityville Horror, that was like, oh,

95
00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:33.480
<v Speaker 2>it's about these people, but the author was the author,

96
00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.040
<v Speaker 2>and the people were the people. And usually when you

97
00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.800
<v Speaker 2>read books like this, Guy Lyon Playfair's book This House

98
00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Is Haunted, which is about the Enfield Poltergeist, he was there.

99
00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:47.079
<v Speaker 2>He was in the house as things were happening, but

100
00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.319
<v Speaker 2>the point of view of the book was very much

101
00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:53.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm writing about I am observing the things that are happening,

102
00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.360
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just trying to report on them. What was

103
00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:59.600
<v Speaker 2>so interesting about John Keel's book was how real the

104
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.160
<v Speaker 2>parent Noia became because it was as he was investigating

105
00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:06.800
<v Speaker 2>it really did that. He started getting weird phone calls,

106
00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:09.000
<v Speaker 2>and then other people would come to him and say, oh,

107
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.079
<v Speaker 2>I got your call last night. I'm sorry I wasn't

108
00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:14.680
<v Speaker 2>able to call you back. I never called you, so

109
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:18.000
<v Speaker 2>weird things start happening to him. And not only that,

110
00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:24.639
<v Speaker 2>but he starts doing things like as he's observing lights

111
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:28.639
<v Speaker 2>that are appearing above the Ohio River. He's taking his

112
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:33.279
<v Speaker 2>flashlight and he starts flashing Morse code up into the sky,

113
00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.279
<v Speaker 2>just to not really fuck with the UFOs, but to

114
00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:40.560
<v Speaker 2>just see what happens, and the lights would flash back,

115
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.639
<v Speaker 2>and so he began interacting with the phenomenon, and then

116
00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:49.439
<v Speaker 2>the phenomenon began interacting with him more and more, to

117
00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:51.839
<v Speaker 2>the point where he really did feel like he was

118
00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:54.240
<v Speaker 2>going crazy, which I just thought was because for me

119
00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:59.040
<v Speaker 2>that was like, this is the story of a person

120
00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:04.360
<v Speaker 2>interacting with the supernatural to the nth degree. It's really

121
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.800
<v Speaker 2>having an effect on his life. And I found that

122
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:10.120
<v Speaker 2>so fascinating. I was like, Okay, this is a main

123
00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.480
<v Speaker 2>character for a movie, and this is a worthwhile journey

124
00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:19.519
<v Speaker 2>to go on because it's dangerous, and it's dangerous psychologically

125
00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and emotionally. Not just ooh, it's dangerous because I'm going

126
00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:28.319
<v Speaker 2>to go suddenly see Bigfoot or fight Mothman or something

127
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.480
<v Speaker 2>like that. It's no. When you go down these roads

128
00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.839
<v Speaker 2>and you look in the darkness, it really does look back.

129
00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:36.199
<v Speaker 2>And that's so much about what the Mothmant prophecies is about.

130
00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:39.000
<v Speaker 2>And that was to me the most interesting part. So

131
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.600
<v Speaker 2>once I became that hooked, it was just a matter

132
00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:46.399
<v Speaker 2>of Okay, I want to do this, and I just

133
00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.000
<v Speaker 2>got to figure out how to make it a story

134
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:51.160
<v Speaker 2>that anyone else on earth will understand.

135
00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.480
<v Speaker 1>One question that stuck out to me after watching the

136
00:07:54.480 --> 00:08:00.439
<v Speaker 1>film myself multiple times is it is such a balance

137
00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:05.399
<v Speaker 1>between fact and fiction. It's a balance between being respectful

138
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.519
<v Speaker 1>of what happened there the Silver Bridge collapse, forty six

139
00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.519
<v Speaker 1>people I think it was perished during that horrible event.

140
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:17.120
<v Speaker 1>While you were writing the screenplay, how did you approach

141
00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:20.759
<v Speaker 1>that balance of the fact and the fiction and being

142
00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.879
<v Speaker 1>respectful of the people that still lived in this area

143
00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:27.560
<v Speaker 1>at the time after this bridge collapse and the people

144
00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:28.360
<v Speaker 1>who perished there.

145
00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:32.080
<v Speaker 2>It happened in two parts. There's an episode of my

146
00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:35.360
<v Speaker 2>podcast where I talk a little bit about what the

147
00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:38.399
<v Speaker 2>experience was like in the early stages of trying to

148
00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:42.000
<v Speaker 2>write the screenplay, and I was having a real hard

149
00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:46.039
<v Speaker 2>time getting into it and finding my way. The first

150
00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.600
<v Speaker 2>thing I had to get past was I was so

151
00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:53.120
<v Speaker 2>enamored with John Keel, and I had gotten personally in

152
00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:56.840
<v Speaker 2>touch with him during the process of securing the rights

153
00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:00.240
<v Speaker 2>and purchasing an option on the book. This is back

154
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.000
<v Speaker 2>in ninety six ninety seven, so we were mailing letters

155
00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.240
<v Speaker 2>back and forth. There wasn't even email, not that John

156
00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:10.399
<v Speaker 2>Keel was using, and we were literally handwriting letters to

157
00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:13.279
<v Speaker 2>each other, and we would talk on the phone. And

158
00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.639
<v Speaker 2>I was so enamored with him and so impressed with

159
00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:19.399
<v Speaker 2>him and with his philosophies, which I thought were so

160
00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:23.320
<v Speaker 2>fascinating and weren't really well known, at least as far

161
00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.840
<v Speaker 2>as I knew at the time. No one was talking

162
00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.000
<v Speaker 2>about John Keel, so I really wanted to get his

163
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.559
<v Speaker 2>ideas out there. So weirdly, the first hurdle I had

164
00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.480
<v Speaker 2>to get over was there's no way for me to

165
00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:40.360
<v Speaker 2>tell his story. He's still alive, he lived his story,

166
00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:43.440
<v Speaker 2>and if I'm trying to get every moment of his

167
00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:50.080
<v Speaker 2>investigation in the movie in chronological order, I'm dead. It's impossible.

168
00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.600
<v Speaker 2>There's just too much. So I had to give myself

169
00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:57.480
<v Speaker 2>permission to back off from that and just go, okay,

170
00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.799
<v Speaker 2>just tell the emotional experience. The thing that was interesting

171
00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.799
<v Speaker 2>to me beyond all the things that happened in the book,

172
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.840
<v Speaker 2>which are fascinating, but what was most fascinating to me

173
00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.720
<v Speaker 2>was his emotional journey. So I'm like that's all I'm

174
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:14.360
<v Speaker 2>gonna do. I'm just going to boil it down to

175
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:18.399
<v Speaker 2>that and really focus on that, which meant I lost

176
00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:20.960
<v Speaker 2>ninety percent of the book. I'm like, I can't be

177
00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:23.480
<v Speaker 2>doing Men in Black. I can't do every single thing

178
00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:25.320
<v Speaker 2>that happens to him. It's just got to be about

179
00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:28.799
<v Speaker 2>a guy, and it can't be him. The character can't

180
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.159
<v Speaker 2>be called John Keel. It's just got to be a

181
00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:36.120
<v Speaker 2>guy who goes to Point Pleasant there's some strange things happening,

182
00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:38.120
<v Speaker 2>and then those things begin to focus on him, and

183
00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:41.279
<v Speaker 2>that's it. And it's got to resonate emotionally. So he's

184
00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.039
<v Speaker 2>got to be in a very emotionally vulnerable and open

185
00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:49.159
<v Speaker 2>place when he goes, so that this isn't just a

186
00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:53.159
<v Speaker 2>story for a book or a newspaper. It's got to

187
00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.840
<v Speaker 2>mean something to him. And then for that to be real,

188
00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:01.080
<v Speaker 2>it's okay, then he's just experienced a because that's when

189
00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:03.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, all the great movies and all the great

190
00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:06.840
<v Speaker 2>stories are you know about someone you know in the

191
00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:10.559
<v Speaker 2>aftermath of a death of a family member or a spouse,

192
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.559
<v Speaker 2>they go on a spiritual journey because that's when those

193
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.000
<v Speaker 2>questions are ever present. And then once I was doing that,

194
00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:20.480
<v Speaker 2>I realized, then this really isn't going to be a

195
00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.840
<v Speaker 2>docudrama about what happened in Point Pleasant. It's not going

196
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.320
<v Speaker 2>to take place in the sixties. It's going to take

197
00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.639
<v Speaker 2>place at that point modern day, which was late nineties,

198
00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.759
<v Speaker 2>early two thousands, And it's not going to be Drawn

199
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Keel and it's John Keel was never married, but this

200
00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:40.679
<v Speaker 2>character is. And then once I realized I was using

201
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.960
<v Speaker 2>it as a jumping off point, but I wasn't going

202
00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:47.000
<v Speaker 2>to try to be faithful to all the events. I

203
00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:50.399
<v Speaker 2>realized that the more I changed it, the better it was,

204
00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:54.559
<v Speaker 2>because I would make it more and more clear that

205
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.919
<v Speaker 2>I was not trying to tell the specific story of

206
00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:02.080
<v Speaker 2>that collapse. Even though it was Point Pleasant and it

207
00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:04.559
<v Speaker 2>was the Silver Bridge and all that stuff, all those

208
00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.720
<v Speaker 2>things are the same. I purposely didn't make it forty

209
00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.679
<v Speaker 2>six people. I purposely didn't make it happen on December fifteenth.

210
00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.279
<v Speaker 2>It was on Christmas Eve. I was trying to change

211
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:20.399
<v Speaker 2>enough obvious things that I hoped that anyone who lived

212
00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:25.360
<v Speaker 2>there and lived through the tragedy would not feel that, Oh,

213
00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.759
<v Speaker 2>here's a movie purporting to tell the true story, and

214
00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:33.080
<v Speaker 2>they're getting everything wrong. It was like, it's based on

215
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.759
<v Speaker 2>a true story, but this is not a docudrama. And

216
00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:40.279
<v Speaker 2>so I was like trying to keep things at arms

217
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:45.840
<v Speaker 2>distance in terms of actual facts, actual names, and focus

218
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:51.759
<v Speaker 2>more on just the emotions that he was experiencing. And

219
00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>I just keep it like that. And so in that way,

220
00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:59.000
<v Speaker 2>I felt a little estranged from point pleasant, like I

221
00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't go there to do research because I'm like, that

222
00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:04.360
<v Speaker 2>would be disingenuous, because I'm not honestly trying to talk

223
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:06.960
<v Speaker 2>to the people and tell their story. That's another kind

224
00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:10.559
<v Speaker 2>of writing that other people have done and will do,

225
00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:14.120
<v Speaker 2>and so I should keep my distance. And I think

226
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.639
<v Speaker 2>emotionally I felt that way for a long time. And

227
00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.440
<v Speaker 2>it's been twenty eight years since I wrote it, in

228
00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:23.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty something years since the movie came out, and since

229
00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:29.159
<v Speaker 2>no one has really said that movie ruined our town

230
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.240
<v Speaker 2>and that movie was a disgrace and hurt people, and

231
00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.919
<v Speaker 2>no one said that. No one certainly said that to me,

232
00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:38.600
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, what it seemed like was that in

233
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.960
<v Speaker 2>some weird way, maybe it helped because now there's a

234
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:44.440
<v Speaker 2>festival in a museum and people are stopping by to

235
00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.480
<v Speaker 2>get their pictures taken near the statue and they're spending

236
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.840
<v Speaker 2>money in the town, which they should, and so maybe

237
00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:52.639
<v Speaker 2>it was a good thing, and I felt like maybe

238
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:53.919
<v Speaker 2>it was safe to go back.

239
00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:59.639
<v Speaker 1>The film's tone is certainly haunting, yet deeply human. How

240
00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:04.799
<v Speaker 1>did you approach creating that fear through the atmosphere rather

241
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.799
<v Speaker 1>than the overt horror. I'm a huge horror fan. We've

242
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.240
<v Speaker 1>been going back and watching the Terrifier movies, some of

243
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:16.159
<v Speaker 1>the most gory movies in history. Danny, who you met

244
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.480
<v Speaker 1>up in West Virginia, actually went yesterday to a haunted

245
00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.320
<v Speaker 1>house here about an hour and a half away and

246
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.799
<v Speaker 1>met David who plays Art the Clown, and had some

247
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.559
<v Speaker 1>great times with him. But it is overtly over the

248
00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.840
<v Speaker 1>top overkill. He is the king of overkill. Yet you

249
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:36.080
<v Speaker 1>found some way in this screenplay, in my opinion, to

250
00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:42.519
<v Speaker 1>do a brilliant job of creating this haunting atmosphere. It

251
00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.879
<v Speaker 1>was very scary, but there wasn't this overt horror. How

252
00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.360
<v Speaker 1>did you approach that in the screenplay and how do

253
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:49.720
<v Speaker 1>you think that played out through?

254
00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>What played out.

255
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.799
<v Speaker 1>On the screen And stay tuned for more sasquatch out

256
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.200
<v Speaker 1>to see We'll be right back after these messages.

257
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.240
<v Speaker 2>It was by focusing on what I found fascinating and

258
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.080
<v Speaker 2>disturbing in the book because in the book there is

259
00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.759
<v Speaker 2>no overt horror. There really aren't those beats, and a

260
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.799
<v Speaker 2>lot of true supernatural books, in fact, most there aren't

261
00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot of overt horror beats. Horror is a very

262
00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:27.720
<v Speaker 2>specific genre, both in print and on screen, and it

263
00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:30.919
<v Speaker 2>does certain things, and certain things need to happen. There

264
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:36.519
<v Speaker 2>are jump scares, and often there is actual physical threat

265
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:42.799
<v Speaker 2>and actual physical deaths. Look everything from The Exorcist to Halloween,

266
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.120
<v Speaker 2>there are people dying. And while people died in Point Pleasant,

267
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.639
<v Speaker 2>they weren't being murdered. They weren't being killed. They died

268
00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:56.799
<v Speaker 2>in a horrible accident of infrastructure. There wasn't some creature

269
00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:02.480
<v Speaker 2>mothman wasn't murdering anyone. So to put that on it

270
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:07.080
<v Speaker 2>would be, in my opinion, to make it less interesting.

271
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.080
<v Speaker 2>What was interesting and compelling to me was this growing

272
00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:17.159
<v Speaker 2>sense of mystery and dread and this human need to

273
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.039
<v Speaker 2>find a reason for it and find an answer for it,

274
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.519
<v Speaker 2>and how those answers in real life never come. That

275
00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.440
<v Speaker 2>just is not a part of people who go through

276
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:34.919
<v Speaker 2>alien abductions. Very few of them are settled with that

277
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.919
<v Speaker 2>and go oh, yes, I'm being abducted by aliens, and

278
00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I totally understand why, and I'm totally good with it.

279
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>And often the people who are like that, what you're

280
00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:48.320
<v Speaker 2>seeing in that attitude is an attempt. It's adaptive. It's

281
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:55.679
<v Speaker 2>trying to make something that is hugely destabilizing not as destabilizing,

282
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.919
<v Speaker 2>so that life can go on. But these are destabilizing events.

283
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.200
<v Speaker 2>That was the whole point of the Mothmann prophecies, that

284
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.440
<v Speaker 2>was the whole point of John Keele's stories. That when

285
00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.759
<v Speaker 2>you really get into this stuff and you're looking at

286
00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.839
<v Speaker 2>it with clear eyes and you're soberly approaching it looking

287
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:16.039
<v Speaker 2>for an answer, that's when you're most at risk, because

288
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>that is what the phenomenon will not ever serve. There's

289
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.680
<v Speaker 2>a trickster element. It will lie, it will baffle you,

290
00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:29.720
<v Speaker 2>it will lead you down dead ends. It's never going

291
00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.279
<v Speaker 2>to just simply give you the answer. So all those

292
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.119
<v Speaker 2>ideas were what I found fascinating, But it also made

293
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.079
<v Speaker 2>the movie a hard sell because a lot of people

294
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>read it expecting it to build into that. There were

295
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.319
<v Speaker 2>studio executives who were like, well, we love the first

296
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.079
<v Speaker 2>part of it, it's really interesting, but then at the

297
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.480
<v Speaker 2>end I think we got to have him fight Mothman

298
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.319
<v Speaker 2>on the bridge, and I'm like, I totally get that.

299
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:54.720
<v Speaker 2>I know why you're saying that, because there is that

300
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of movie. You want that, but that's not what

301
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:02.400
<v Speaker 2>this is. So or make what this is or don't.

302
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.160
<v Speaker 2>And then luckily the studio Lakeshore that eventually bought it

303
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.440
<v Speaker 2>and the director Mark Pellington who eventually directed it, both

304
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.160
<v Speaker 2>agreed with my vision. They were like, this is not

305
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.880
<v Speaker 2>a horror movie. This is a supernatural drama. This is

306
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:21.799
<v Speaker 2>more like the sixth sense. It's eerie, it's scary, it's emotional,

307
00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:24.440
<v Speaker 2>but it isn't horror.

308
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.519
<v Speaker 1>You've mentioned John Keel multiple times and how he really

309
00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:33.759
<v Speaker 1>became the quote unquote main character in this story because

310
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:35.839
<v Speaker 1>of some of the experiences that he was having, and

311
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.720
<v Speaker 1>even said so eloquently earlier, when you stare into the darkness,

312
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.920
<v Speaker 1>it tends to stare back when you get into this phenomena,

313
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:47.920
<v Speaker 1>whether it be Mothman, whether it be UFOs, even Bigfoot research.

314
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.200
<v Speaker 1>To some degree, I have found that with the thousand

315
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.599
<v Speaker 1>plus people I've interviewed for this show and conferences and

316
00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.880
<v Speaker 1>festivals where I speak and travel, there seems to be

317
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.319
<v Speaker 1>this theme. Where as you said, you stare into the darkness,

318
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.680
<v Speaker 1>it stares back at you, and you seem to open

319
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:11.000
<v Speaker 1>yourself up to experiences. So were there any experiences that

320
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.079
<v Speaker 1>you had supernatural or otherwise, or maybe even coincidences that

321
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.319
<v Speaker 1>occurred when you started getting into writing the screenplay, or

322
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.039
<v Speaker 1>maybe even while they were filming the film that made

323
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.920
<v Speaker 1>you question reality a little bit more, maybe than you

324
00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:25.359
<v Speaker 1>did when you started the process.

325
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, the honest answer is no. John Keel told

326
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:34.279
<v Speaker 2>me personally, I got ready for the crazies, and I'm like,

327
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.160
<v Speaker 2>what do you mean. Now You're taking sort of the

328
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.039
<v Speaker 2>baton from my hand. You will be the person associated

329
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:44.920
<v Speaker 2>with furthering the myth and the story of the moth

330
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.079
<v Speaker 2>Man and carrying it further into the world, and how

331
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.920
<v Speaker 2>people are going to come to you and all the

332
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:51.759
<v Speaker 2>crazies are going to come out of the woodwork, and

333
00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh God, I hope not. And to be honest,

334
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.480
<v Speaker 2>they really haven't, thank god, not in any bad way,

335
00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:59.400
<v Speaker 2>just but the good way, Like you know, meeting you

336
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.160
<v Speaker 2>with the AMA Festival the appropriate amount of crazy I

337
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>like to think, so yeah, But at that time in

338
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.640
<v Speaker 2>my life I was very interested and for years After that,

339
00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I've really got to begin a serious

340
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.440
<v Speaker 2>investigation of my own, even if it justin balls, staying

341
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.599
<v Speaker 2>at a haunted hotel for the weekend, or putting a

342
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.240
<v Speaker 2>cassette in a tape recorder before I go to bed

343
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.319
<v Speaker 2>at night and leaving it downstairs and seeing what happens.

344
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.759
<v Speaker 2>But I never did. For some reason, I never moved

345
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.119
<v Speaker 2>in that direction. And then years went by, and about

346
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.799
<v Speaker 2>ten years ago I was on the writing staff of

347
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.920
<v Speaker 2>a television show and there was a woman who was

348
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:46.559
<v Speaker 2>a little bit older than me. And as weeks went

349
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:48.799
<v Speaker 2>by and we talked more and more, it became clear

350
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.400
<v Speaker 2>that she was someone who was very woo if you will,

351
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and then knew a lot about that stuff and had

352
00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:58.160
<v Speaker 2>experiences of her own. And yet she also seemed to

353
00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:02.319
<v Speaker 2>emanate wisdom and piece in other words, did not seem

354
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.599
<v Speaker 2>crazy or chaotic. And around that time I picked up

355
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:09.000
<v Speaker 2>a used copy of Robert Monroe's book about a pow

356
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.160
<v Speaker 2>to have an out of body experience, and I was like,

357
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:15.599
<v Speaker 2>now I'm feeling like solid and secure enough. Maybe I

358
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:21.599
<v Speaker 2>could from that solid standpoint experiment a little bit and

359
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:23.599
<v Speaker 2>just like literally see if I can go into the

360
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.400
<v Speaker 2>room next door and see what's on the desk. I

361
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:28.480
<v Speaker 2>just want to prove to myself it can be done.

362
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.200
<v Speaker 2>And I started reading the book. Now this is the

363
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.680
<v Speaker 2>story I was telling her because it was happening at

364
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:36.559
<v Speaker 2>that time, and I said, I started reading the book

365
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:39.720
<v Speaker 2>and then for some reason I stopped and I just felt, Nah,

366
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.720
<v Speaker 2>this is not right for me. And she was nodding

367
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.160
<v Speaker 2>and smiling the whole time, and she said to me,

368
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.400
<v Speaker 2>she said, yeah, I don't think that's what your journey

369
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.599
<v Speaker 2>is about this time through. I said, oh, what do

370
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.720
<v Speaker 2>you mean, And she's I just get the feeling that

371
00:21:54.920 --> 00:22:01.359
<v Speaker 2>for you this time through, it's about really being inside

372
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:06.680
<v Speaker 2>your physical body and really connecting to that and connecting

373
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.720
<v Speaker 2>to the ground and really being in the physical world.

374
00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.559
<v Speaker 2>And so many lights flashed at that moment. For me,

375
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, God, I've had therapists who have said that

376
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.319
<v Speaker 2>my whole physical experience of being alive has been that

377
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.440
<v Speaker 2>about trying to reconcile the life of the mind with

378
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.519
<v Speaker 2>just being physically present in the moment, trying to become

379
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.559
<v Speaker 2>just more physically adept from being a kid who could

380
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.880
<v Speaker 2>never play a sport than to being an adult who

381
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.400
<v Speaker 2>I could barely screw in a light bulb, much less

382
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.759
<v Speaker 2>do any form of house repair. And it's like slowly

383
00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:48.480
<v Speaker 2>like learning. Okay, maybe I'll learn how to work out.

384
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.279
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I'll get a bike, learn how to bike ride.

385
00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:55.279
<v Speaker 2>And even when I'm riding my bike, my wife is like, focus,

386
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:58.440
<v Speaker 2>don't go up in your head. You're going to get killed.

387
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay, and I've been in thankfully never a

388
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 2>serious accident, but I've fallen off my bike a dozen times,

389
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not going up and down hills. This does

390
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 2>in my neighborhood because us, hey, there was a parrot.

391
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:13.839
<v Speaker 2>Then I get distracted and then I'm on the ground,

392
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 2>so it's okay, I need to be careful anyway. So

393
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:21.519
<v Speaker 2>it's a long way of saying no, and I no

394
00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:26.759
<v Speaker 2>longer seek those experiences out. I now understand that, look,

395
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.079
<v Speaker 2>if something supernatural happens, okay. But in terms of me

396
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:35.039
<v Speaker 2>seeking those experiences out, I think I'm okay where I am.

397
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:38.960
<v Speaker 1>I totally get that I am on the complete opposite

398
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.319
<v Speaker 1>side of that spectrum. I've had so many weird things

399
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.200
<v Speaker 1>happen to me. But I get that there are people

400
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.319
<v Speaker 1>that are journeying through life, and there are other things

401
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.480
<v Speaker 1>that you need to learn, and I totally believe in

402
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.400
<v Speaker 1>that stuff. Let me ask you this is a more

403
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.759
<v Speaker 1>current question. If you were to revisit the Mothman Prophecies today,

404
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:03.000
<v Speaker 1>in a social media era where folklore almost instantaneously, do

405
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.680
<v Speaker 1>you think you might look at the story and approach

406
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:09.160
<v Speaker 1>it a little bit differently today versus twenty eight years

407
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:10.160
<v Speaker 1>ago when you wrote this.

408
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.279
<v Speaker 2>The only way to approach it differently now would be

409
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:17.440
<v Speaker 2>to do the opposite of what I did before. And

410
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.720
<v Speaker 2>so it was only maybe five or six years ago

411
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>that I started thinking. We're in a very different media

412
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.279
<v Speaker 2>landscape now, where there's cable and streaming and there are

413
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:30.880
<v Speaker 2>shows that feel like just really long movies, and I'm like,

414
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:36.839
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if now you could do a more straightforward

415
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.440
<v Speaker 2>adaptation of the book. You would still have to impose

416
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.559
<v Speaker 2>more story and character relationship, but maybe you could get

417
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.839
<v Speaker 2>all those things and you could do it in that

418
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.240
<v Speaker 2>time period, and you could have Mary Higher and you

419
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:53.119
<v Speaker 2>could have Linda Scarberry, and you could have Woodrow Derrenberger,

420
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.640
<v Speaker 2>and you could actually have those people play a role

421
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.000
<v Speaker 2>in the movie and then make it a little bit

422
00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:00.799
<v Speaker 2>more true to life, because I'm like, just the costumes

423
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.400
<v Speaker 2>and the set decoration alone would be amazing, and then

424
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.480
<v Speaker 2>playing into all those events that people who now have

425
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.039
<v Speaker 2>read the book, and there's so many more people now

426
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.920
<v Speaker 2>who have read the book since the movie came out,

427
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.160
<v Speaker 2>that it's oh now for them, they'll be like, Oh,

428
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.519
<v Speaker 2>there's that scene and there's that moment, and I thought,

429
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:21.599
<v Speaker 2>maybe you could do it that way, and the thoughts

430
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.200
<v Speaker 2>winning and out of my mind. I never really sat down,

431
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and unfortunately six seven, eight years ago would have been

432
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.359
<v Speaker 2>a good time. Now, probably with the entertainment landscape the

433
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.160
<v Speaker 2>way it is, I think that'd be a really hard sell, unfortunately,

434
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.000
<v Speaker 2>because I think it would still be entertaining. But I

435
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.839
<v Speaker 2>think just the way studios are approaching what they actually

436
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.240
<v Speaker 2>do and make and the way they do it, I

437
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.440
<v Speaker 2>think it'd be a really billion to one shot now

438
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.119
<v Speaker 2>that would be a thing that could get made.

439
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to shift gears a little bit because this

440
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:57.480
<v Speaker 1>is primarily a Sasquatch bigfoot encounter show. So I want

441
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.240
<v Speaker 1>to ask you this because I used to think when

442
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.200
<v Speaker 1>I started looking into this, I was a police officer

443
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 1>for many years. I've got to see the evidence to

444
00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.319
<v Speaker 1>believe anything. So I'm very skeptical, mostly of people more

445
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:12.039
<v Speaker 1>so than the phenomena. If I'm being honest, I used

446
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Speaker 1>to think that people who had weird experiences like strange

447
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:19.000
<v Speaker 1>lights and maybe even seeing craft and having bigfoot or

448
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:23.119
<v Speaker 1>other cryptid activity was completely separate. I just separated the

449
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>two put them into boxes that I could check off.

450
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.240
<v Speaker 1>But I found talking to so many people and doing

451
00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.240
<v Speaker 1>so many interviews over the years, all of this stuff

452
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:36.039
<v Speaker 1>seems to be connected in some way. I guess the

453
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.480
<v Speaker 1>question for you is, do you think it's possible that

454
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.839
<v Speaker 1>the phenomena of something like mothman and Bigfoot could be

455
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 1>somehow connected, whether it be symbolically, energetically, and it's representing

456
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:53.400
<v Speaker 1>something deeper in the collective unconsciousness that may be out

457
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:55.799
<v Speaker 1>there in the zeitgeist. How do you feel about the

458
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.839
<v Speaker 1>possibility of these phenomena being connected in some way?

459
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think you call it ghost bigfoot. And it's

460
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.400
<v Speaker 2>funny because when I grew up. Now you're quite a

461
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 2>bit younger than I am. But I was growing up

462
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:12.799
<v Speaker 2>in the late sixties early seventies and watching in Search

463
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.440
<v Speaker 2>of and seeing movies Legend of Boggie Creek and The

464
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Very Sun, Classic International Pictures, all that sort of stuff,

465
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.640
<v Speaker 2>and then, of course the Patterson Gimlin film, everything was

466
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:29.759
<v Speaker 2>leaning toward physical flesh and blood Bigfoot. That's how I

467
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.759
<v Speaker 2>understood Bigfoot. In fact, I've been rereading You'll know this

468
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.279
<v Speaker 2>the minute I hold it up, but I've been rereading

469
00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:39.480
<v Speaker 2>this Don Hunter Renee, a Hinden book, and everything about

470
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:42.759
<v Speaker 2>this book there is not a mention of a portal.

471
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 2>There is not a mention of a UFO. There is

472
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:50.880
<v Speaker 2>not a mention of an ultra terrestrial. This book is

473
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.119
<v Speaker 2>We're hunting an animal, and so that's how I grew

474
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 2>up with that same feeling. It's like Bigfoot is an

475
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:04.640
<v Speaker 2>animal in the woods. UFOs are crafts from other planets,

476
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 2>filled with creatures that bleed blood and breathe air and

477
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.440
<v Speaker 2>land and talk to us and shake our hands. And

478
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.359
<v Speaker 2>then ghosts are ghosts. That's separate, that's dead people. That's

479
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.559
<v Speaker 2>a whole different thing. And I don't feel that way anymore.

480
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:24.839
<v Speaker 2>I do feel that it is all connected. It is

481
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.799
<v Speaker 2>all connected in the sense that our brains are not

482
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:36.039
<v Speaker 2>radio dishes that are just these big open things that

483
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:40.160
<v Speaker 2>just take in signals from everywhere. I feel now that

484
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:47.079
<v Speaker 2>our brains are these locked down turtle shell filters that

485
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:51.880
<v Speaker 2>are blocking so much out so that we can focus

486
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 2>on just being alive and getting through whatever this human

487
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.599
<v Speaker 2>journey is. But some people can open their shell a

488
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:02.119
<v Speaker 2>little bit, and those are your psychics, and those are

489
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:05.960
<v Speaker 2>the people who've had near death experiences, and whether they

490
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:09.559
<v Speaker 2>like it or not, people who have alien encounters. These

491
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.880
<v Speaker 2>are people who are taking in a little bit more

492
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:16.640
<v Speaker 2>than we are. Mediums, people who have precognitive dreams. They're

493
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:22.279
<v Speaker 2>getting a little more. And all of those things, bigfoot,

494
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:27.400
<v Speaker 2>UFOs and mothman, I think exist in a way that

495
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.759
<v Speaker 2>is sometimes physical. So it seems very tempting to go, oh,

496
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, look there are tracks, or my eyes got

497
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.759
<v Speaker 2>burned by looking at something. My eyes had to get

498
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:42.000
<v Speaker 2>burned by something. The Cleague conjunctividis I've got there was

499
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>a light somewhere, and not a normal one, because most

500
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.640
<v Speaker 2>lights I look at throughout my life don't burn my eyes.

501
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:52.200
<v Speaker 2>So what happened? All of those things, they're a little

502
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.839
<v Speaker 2>bit physical, a little bit not physical. Something's out in

503
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:59.599
<v Speaker 2>the woods throwing rocks at us. Something is out in

504
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:04.240
<v Speaker 2>the woods. It's making those weird calls. Something is in

505
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:08.839
<v Speaker 2>the woods hitting a tree with a stick. We're hearing

506
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 2>it that's physical, and.

507
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Stay tuned for more sasquat chatta see. We'll be right

508
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:15.880
<v Speaker 1>back after these messages.

509
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:23.319
<v Speaker 2>But his Bigfoot always there? Is he there right now?

510
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't necessarily think so. I think Bigfoot's there when

511
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.599
<v Speaker 2>he or she wants to be there or is placed

512
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.039
<v Speaker 2>there and then not there. And same thing with Mothman.

513
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's so many different sightings that are happening now

514
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.599
<v Speaker 1>around the Chicago area. I've interviewed people like Lon Strickler

515
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 1>on the show in the past, who does a deep

516
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 1>dive into winged tominoids, not necessarily Mothman in particular, but

517
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:54.119
<v Speaker 1>just winged hominoids in general. When it comes to cryptids,

518
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:57.039
<v Speaker 1>and I think there are people that are clearly seeing

519
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:00.720
<v Speaker 1>something physical, but I think they may become and going

520
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.960
<v Speaker 1>out of our reality in some way, shape, form, or fashion.

521
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.240
<v Speaker 1>I can't even believe I'm saying this. I used to

522
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.680
<v Speaker 1>not even be open to that possibility, and now people

523
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:11.599
<v Speaker 1>have told me, the longer you stay in this, the

524
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.359
<v Speaker 1>longer you do what I do, the more you seem

525
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>to move towards that wu or that high strangeness. Because frankly,

526
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>sometimes it's the only thing that makes sense. Let me

527
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:25.000
<v Speaker 1>ask you this, as a writer, if you were to

528
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:28.519
<v Speaker 1>write a film or a series about Bigfoot, what angle

529
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 1>would you take?

530
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Would you go the horror.

531
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Route, the mystery route, would you have more empathy? Would

532
00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:36.039
<v Speaker 1>it be something completely different? And I guess the second

533
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:39.039
<v Speaker 1>part of that question is, given your background of storytelling,

534
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:42.359
<v Speaker 1>how would you approach that from the human side of

535
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 1>a Bigfoot encounter? Would there be fear, awe, revelation? How

536
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:48.759
<v Speaker 1>would you approach that? In general? If you were going

537
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:51.279
<v Speaker 1>to sit down and write a screenplay and do a

538
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.319
<v Speaker 1>movie about Bigfoot today, that one.

539
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Is really hard. And there was a period of time

540
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:02.400
<v Speaker 2>this is pream off man, when obviously I was interested

541
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:04.200
<v Speaker 2>in Bigfoot, and I was like, God, there's got to

542
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:07.359
<v Speaker 2>be a way to tell that story. And when I

543
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:11.680
<v Speaker 2>would approach it, it was always like instantly takes the

544
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:16.839
<v Speaker 2>form of Okay, there's a person, a guy becomes obsessed

545
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.640
<v Speaker 2>with the idea of Bigfoot, goes on the hunt for Bigfoot,

546
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:25.799
<v Speaker 2>goes through hardship. So then what's the end of this story?

547
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.079
<v Speaker 2>What is the payoff? What's the thing? Is it that

548
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.960
<v Speaker 2>you never find the thing you're looking for? Is it

549
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.240
<v Speaker 2>that you do find the thing you're looking for and

550
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:38.160
<v Speaker 2>both answers seemed unsatisfactory to me because it felt like

551
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.559
<v Speaker 2>the person doesn't find it, then the whole movie is

552
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:45.759
<v Speaker 2>just one long tease, and then if he does find it,

553
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.359
<v Speaker 2>there's something disappointing there too. It's oh, so it's just

554
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.079
<v Speaker 2>there's Bigfoot and he's not going to kill it. No

555
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:55.839
<v Speaker 2>one wants a movie where a guy's tying the corpse

556
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:59.200
<v Speaker 2>of Bigfoot onto the hood of his car. So would

557
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.000
<v Speaker 2>they just look at each each other in the woods

558
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>and then Bigfoot waves and walks away. I don't like

559
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:08.519
<v Speaker 2>that either, and that's usually where the thinking would stop.

560
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.079
<v Speaker 2>But that was because everything I'd grown up with was

561
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:18.000
<v Speaker 2>flesh and blood, paws and claws, Bigfoot. And it wasn't

562
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.880
<v Speaker 2>until the Mothman Prophecies and reading that book that it

563
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:23.319
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, this is about something where the author

564
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:27.240
<v Speaker 2>himself is this isn't fully physical, like something else is

565
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.720
<v Speaker 2>going on here. I'm not walking around and looking for

566
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Mothman scat. He's not doing that. He's having a whole

567
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.880
<v Speaker 2>other experience, which weirdly made more sense to me. I'm like, oh,

568
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.599
<v Speaker 2>that's interesting. You can do it both ways, So I

569
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.920
<v Speaker 2>think it'd be really tough I don't know how to

570
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>do the Bigfoot movie in any straight way. Is there

571
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 2>a way to do it as a character comedy. Is

572
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:51.960
<v Speaker 2>there a way to do it as a metaphor for

573
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.559
<v Speaker 2>something else? Maybe? Is there a way to make it supernatural? Bigfoot?

574
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Probably now you could. I think you could still make

575
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.000
<v Speaker 2>a horror movie about Bigfoot, for sure, and then you

576
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>could probably also make a supernatural drama where you're able

577
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.239
<v Speaker 2>to understand that Bigfoot is a spirit of the woods.

578
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.159
<v Speaker 2>It's been there, it's still there, it will always be there,

579
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 2>but never one hundred percent physically. And I think people

580
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:21.639
<v Speaker 2>could watch that nowadays and it wouldn't strike them as foolish.

581
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 2>It would actually strike them as more realistic.

582
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:28.800
<v Speaker 1>As someone who wrote a fictional story about Bigfoot. Last year,

583
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:32.480
<v Speaker 1>my second book came out, Born Wild Code's Odyssey, Volume one.

584
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:39.119
<v Speaker 1>I tried my best to make the characters relatable.

585
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:39.280
<v Speaker 2>In that book.

586
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:43.679
<v Speaker 1>I wanted people to feel as much as possible what

587
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.559
<v Speaker 1>was happening to the Sasquatch characters.

588
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:49.119
<v Speaker 2>In this book. I wanted them to feel empathy.

589
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.039
<v Speaker 1>So let me ask you this, as an author who's

590
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:54.679
<v Speaker 1>written a screenplay in the past, what role do you

591
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:59.440
<v Speaker 1>think empathy plays in the paranormal storytelling, not just for experiences,

592
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:01.440
<v Speaker 1>but the phenomena itself.

593
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 2>That's really interesting because I haven't had the pleasure of

594
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.000
<v Speaker 2>reading your book yet, but what I was picking up

595
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.880
<v Speaker 2>from what you said was that the bigfoot sasquatch characters

596
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.199
<v Speaker 2>are characters you're not just in the point of view

597
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:19.320
<v Speaker 2>of the hunter, as it were, but also the creature itself. Look,

598
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.280
<v Speaker 2>you and I saw this a month ago. The degree

599
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.400
<v Speaker 2>to which people identify with these cryptids. It does not

600
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.159
<v Speaker 2>surprise me at all that these are often people who

601
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 2>feel like they're outsiders in our culture, and for them

602
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to identify with these other creatures, these other beings whose

603
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:44.039
<v Speaker 2>legitimacy and even reality is questioned by the larger society.

604
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:48.119
<v Speaker 2>I get that metaphor completely. So the notion that you

605
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:54.400
<v Speaker 2>could write and actually see a cryptid as something that

606
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:58.280
<v Speaker 2>you could empathize and sympathize with, I totally get that,

607
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>and I think it makes sense. Well, what's hard about

608
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:06.400
<v Speaker 2>it is to fully step into the creature's point of view,

609
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:11.960
<v Speaker 2>because the creatures are so unknowable that to step into

610
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.960
<v Speaker 2>their point of view it's a little tough. Like as

611
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:17.719
<v Speaker 2>a writer, I would be like I don't know what

612
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:19.760
<v Speaker 2>that point of view is. You would have to make

613
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.119
<v Speaker 2>a pretty big leap, and it can be done to

614
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.000
<v Speaker 2>then go, okay, here's how Now I'm going to be

615
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:30.400
<v Speaker 2>actually in that character and say this is how Bigfoot

616
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.039
<v Speaker 2>feels in this moment, and this is how Mothman feels

617
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:36.519
<v Speaker 2>in this moment, and this is their point of view

618
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.599
<v Speaker 2>on what's happening. That is a big leap, and it

619
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:42.559
<v Speaker 2>might be such a big leap you might be crossing genres,

620
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:45.880
<v Speaker 2>which by the way, everyone does now sound like a

621
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:48.599
<v Speaker 2>thousand year old man at this point. But you've got

622
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:50.400
<v Speaker 2>to really know what you're doing. And I would say,

623
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.559
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to take that step, which maybe you did,

624
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I've got to read your book, but you've really got

625
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:56.360
<v Speaker 2>to do it. Then you just got to really jump

626
00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:58.719
<v Speaker 2>in with both feet, as it were both big feet,

627
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:02.280
<v Speaker 2>and go, okay, now we're in Bigfoot's point of view.

628
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Now we're going to get his thoughts or her thoughts.

629
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.400
<v Speaker 1>We're going to have to send you a copy of

630
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:08.960
<v Speaker 1>the book for sure, so you can read.

631
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.280
<v Speaker 2>It, but you got to sign it. Got to be signed.

632
00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll definitely do that. When you look at stories like

633
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:20.079
<v Speaker 1>the Mothman Bigfoot, UFO encounters. Do you think that they're

634
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:23.840
<v Speaker 1>teaching us more about the world or do you think

635
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.320
<v Speaker 1>they're teaching us more about ourselves.

636
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.119
<v Speaker 2>You're talking about the TV shows, these sort of investigative

637
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:31.079
<v Speaker 2>TV shows, if.

638
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:35.360
<v Speaker 1>You're looking at the cryptids themselves, Mothman, Bigfoot, So people

639
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.079
<v Speaker 1>who have those types of encounters, Yeah, I think.

640
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Look, anytime someone has one of these experiences, if you

641
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.039
<v Speaker 2>listen and take it seriously, yeah, you're learning more about

642
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.719
<v Speaker 2>the human experience and what it is to be alive

643
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:51.400
<v Speaker 2>on planet Earth. And as long as you're not the

644
00:37:51.599 --> 00:38:00.519
<v Speaker 2>most reductionist materialist debunker who relegates all of this to

645
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 2>mental aberration, misidentification, attention seeking, all of that, but if

646
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:11.960
<v Speaker 2>you can really just say sometimes people do legitimately have

647
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:18.559
<v Speaker 2>these transcendent experiences that they struggle with, Yeah, I think

648
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:20.800
<v Speaker 2>it's teaching us about what it is to be human.

649
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:24.039
<v Speaker 2>And those are so close in the mathmat prophecies, the

650
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:28.400
<v Speaker 2>notion of having a supernatural experience you can't explain, and

651
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.559
<v Speaker 2>also having just a fairly common life experience, which is

652
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:37.679
<v Speaker 2>I suddenly experienced a terrible tragedy and lost someone I love.

653
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Those two are very close, and once you're in one place,

654
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:46.599
<v Speaker 2>it's not that hard to step into the next place,

655
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.039
<v Speaker 2>because now you're asking those questions of what does our

656
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.679
<v Speaker 2>life mean? And when people die, are they truly gone

657
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.480
<v Speaker 2>in every possible sense or is it only in the

658
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.239
<v Speaker 2>physical sense? And can you ever get across that chasm?

659
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:05.039
<v Speaker 2>And if you do, and if something comes back, what

660
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 2>is it that's coming back? Is it your dead loved one,

661
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.800
<v Speaker 2>or sometimes is it something else that's masquerading.

662
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.320
<v Speaker 1>I definitely want to get into your podcast Richard Hadam's

663
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 1>paranormal Bookshelf. We're going to save that for last, but

664
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:20.880
<v Speaker 1>one last question before we get there. If you could

665
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:25.480
<v Speaker 1>sit down and have a conversation with any experiencer, whether

666
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.199
<v Speaker 1>it be John Keel, whether it be Albert Ossman, whether

667
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:32.159
<v Speaker 1>it be Patterson Gimlin, anybody who's had an experience with

668
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>one of these cryptids, one or more of these cryptids,

669
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:38.639
<v Speaker 1>or even a modern experiencer, what's the one question that

670
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.960
<v Speaker 1>you would want to ask that person.

671
00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's such a great question. I will

672
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:50.039
<v Speaker 2>tell you that I have been thinking about that question

673
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:56.599
<v Speaker 2>in terms of someone else, in terms of Whitley Screeber. Okay,

674
00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:00.760
<v Speaker 2>so an experiencer, but not necessarily with a cryptid nestsily

675
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:04.519
<v Speaker 2>because when we were at the Mothman Festival, I met

676
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.599
<v Speaker 2>Linda Sigmund, who was right across from where I was sitting,

677
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.400
<v Speaker 2>and she witnessed Mofman. She's a living witness. When I

678
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:16.519
<v Speaker 2>meet something like that, I just want to hear the story.

679
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.760
<v Speaker 2>But with a guy like Whitley Streeber, who has devoted

680
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:24.119
<v Speaker 2>the second half of his life to repeatedly being open

681
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:29.280
<v Speaker 2>to interacting with some non human intelligence, my questions always

682
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:34.320
<v Speaker 2>boiled down to do you feel you have even just

683
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:43.440
<v Speaker 2>intellectually gained something from them, not necessarily from the experience,

684
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.239
<v Speaker 2>because I think the answer that I would get would

685
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:49.119
<v Speaker 2>be Whitley Streeber would say, yes, I've gained something. I've

686
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.960
<v Speaker 2>gained an understanding that the world is not completely material,

687
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:55.760
<v Speaker 2>and that our place in the cosmos is different than

688
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:57.119
<v Speaker 2>we thought it was, and all that stuff. And I

689
00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:01.440
<v Speaker 2>get that, But I am weirdly curious if he feels

690
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that he has gotten something solid. I will say that

691
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 2>there was one occasion where in my telepathic communications with

692
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.079
<v Speaker 2>these beings, they told me something that came true, or

693
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:18.840
<v Speaker 2>they told me something that assured me that a dead

694
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:23.519
<v Speaker 2>relative or loved one was in communication with me in

695
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>a way that I solidly believe rather than just there

696
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:32.679
<v Speaker 2>is more. Do they ever palaver with us on a

697
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:35.760
<v Speaker 2>more human level? My guess is the answer is no,

698
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:37.679
<v Speaker 2>because that's not what they do.

699
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:44.440
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's talk about Richard Adams's paranormal Bookshelf. It's

700
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.159
<v Speaker 1>such a grounded yet curious show. What's your philosophy on

701
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:53.119
<v Speaker 1>exploring the paranormal? Do you approach it with skepticism open

702
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:57.159
<v Speaker 1>mindedness or are you more about the storytelling aspect of it?

703
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.000
<v Speaker 1>How do you get into the paranormal when you're doing

704
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.159
<v Speaker 1>this on the show, when you're going through these books?

705
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:05.559
<v Speaker 1>And I guess the second part of that question would be,

706
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.280
<v Speaker 1>is there a book or an author that you featured

707
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 1>on the podcast thus far that has profoundly shifted your

708
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.199
<v Speaker 1>views on maybe what's real and what's not?

709
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, yes, yes to all of that. By

710
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:22.000
<v Speaker 2>the way, Yes I am skeptical, Yes I am open,

711
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and yes I'm interested in the creative aspect of all

712
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:29.480
<v Speaker 2>of it. Early on, there were people who listened to

713
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't know the first season or halfway through the

714
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.239
<v Speaker 2>first season, and then there are comments. Are the reactions

715
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>were I'm out because you talked about this stuff as

716
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.079
<v Speaker 2>if it's all true, or basically you're not being skeptical enough,

717
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.199
<v Speaker 2>like some of us need actual proof. And my response

718
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:50.960
<v Speaker 2>to that is that's not what I'm doing. The podcast

719
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.079
<v Speaker 2>isn't about me talking about a subject and then saying

720
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.360
<v Speaker 2>and here's the proof, and here's why I think it's real,

721
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:58.920
<v Speaker 2>and you should think it's real too. There are books

722
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.480
<v Speaker 2>that I've talked about on podcast where I'm like, this

723
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:05.559
<v Speaker 2>is fake. I'm not vouching for the phenomenon. I might

724
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>be vouching for the book or the experience of reading

725
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the book, but I'm not saying that I believe in

726
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:13.239
<v Speaker 2>the thing that happened in the book. And there are

727
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.719
<v Speaker 2>others that where I say, yeah, I am advocating. If

728
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:18.320
<v Speaker 2>I had to say, i'd say, yes, I believe this

729
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:23.119
<v Speaker 2>person's story. Most of them are just things that we

730
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:25.079
<v Speaker 2>reflect on. Look, what you and I are doing right

731
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:28.960
<v Speaker 2>now is the way I like to think about the supernatural.

732
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure you've had guests on that are much

733
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:35.639
<v Speaker 2>more in a way, like bigfoot materialists. I'm sure you've

734
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:38.039
<v Speaker 2>had people on who are like, I went into the

735
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:41.119
<v Speaker 2>woods and here's my evidence, and here's why I believe

736
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:45.840
<v Speaker 2>we're this close. There's that conversation, and the equivalent conversation

737
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.079
<v Speaker 2>on the UFO side is people who only want to

738
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:57.159
<v Speaker 2>talk about Louis Elizondo, the Pentagon Disclosure, congressional hearings, and whistleblowers,

739
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:01.639
<v Speaker 2>and there's that conversation. But my thing is, I'm not

740
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:04.159
<v Speaker 2>on the hunt for a physical answer because I don't

741
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.760
<v Speaker 2>think I'm going to get one in this life. So

742
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm more interested in the way certain books have made

743
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:16.119
<v Speaker 2>me feel. I did an episode about reading a book

744
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:20.400
<v Speaker 2>about near death experiences, but it was about bad near

745
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:26.000
<v Speaker 2>death experiences where people came back thinking, Oh no, what

746
00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:29.480
<v Speaker 2>happens after you die is really bad. There is life

747
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:32.239
<v Speaker 2>after death, but it's not going to be good. That

748
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.079
<v Speaker 2>book had a huge effect on me. That book really

749
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.840
<v Speaker 2>deeply upset me for a long time. And there are

750
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.519
<v Speaker 2>other books that have had these sort of emotional impacts

751
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:43.000
<v Speaker 2>on me. But that's the fun part is each one

752
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.960
<v Speaker 2>of these books is like talking to a person and

753
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:48.639
<v Speaker 2>hearing their story and then reacting to it. I covered

754
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.079
<v Speaker 2>a book about the Amityville Horror which was written by

755
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:55.920
<v Speaker 2>a parapsychologist, and it was a two hundred page screed

756
00:44:56.519 --> 00:45:00.199
<v Speaker 2>about how it was fake and no one was listeningstening

757
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.719
<v Speaker 2>to him, and they made the movie without consulting him.

758
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:06.239
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth and Lorraine Warren made money off of it, and

759
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:10.800
<v Speaker 2>they shouldn't have. It's the most beautiful, entertaining, wonderful book,

760
00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:15.000
<v Speaker 2>which I actually believe he was correct, but it's filled

761
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 2>with such righteous indignation that only a parapsychologist or theater

762
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:25.639
<v Speaker 2>critic can really summon. His voice comes through so clearly

763
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and so endearingly, and I'm so glad that I think

764
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:31.920
<v Speaker 2>when the dust settles, people will go, oh, this guy's correct,

765
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:34.280
<v Speaker 2>And frankly, the only reason he doesn't get more credit

766
00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:37.199
<v Speaker 2>is because he is also a parapsychologist. Apparently the only

767
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:41.320
<v Speaker 2>people who can debunk Amityville have to be debunkers. When

768
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:44.599
<v Speaker 2>someone who actually believes that there are real haunted houses

769
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>out there that we should be studying and not Amityville,

770
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:49.800
<v Speaker 2>that's the guy they don't listen to. But I think

771
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:50.639
<v Speaker 2>they should.

772
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Stay tuned for more sasquat Yodasy will be right back

773
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:56.400
<v Speaker 1>after these messages.

774
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Anyway. The podcast that I do typically tells a story

775
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of a book that I have read, and usually what

776
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.079
<v Speaker 2>was going on in my life while I was reading

777
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:14.800
<v Speaker 2>that book, and how those two things interweave. That is

778
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:19.280
<v Speaker 2>fun and challenging, But for me, that's the fun of it.

779
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.079
<v Speaker 2>The fun is sitting around with your friends and your

780
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:26.800
<v Speaker 2>colleagues like you and I and having these conversations because

781
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.119
<v Speaker 2>we wouldn't be having them if they didn't stir something

782
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.199
<v Speaker 2>in our souls, and if they didn't touch something essential

783
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 2>in each one of us that lives in a place

784
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.599
<v Speaker 2>of questioning, that lives in a place of eternal childhood,

785
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:41.760
<v Speaker 2>and is sitting by a fire and looking out the

786
00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:47.679
<v Speaker 2>window and feeling that weird, cozy thrill of what's outside.

787
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:51.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't really want it to press up against the window,

788
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:54.559
<v Speaker 2>but I do want to think about it and wonder

789
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:58.960
<v Speaker 2>about it and hear the stories about it. And that's

790
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 2>what keeps me going, And that is what, to me,

791
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.960
<v Speaker 2>is the most interesting thing about what it is we

792
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.840
<v Speaker 2>talk about when we talk about sasquatch.

793
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Which brings me to my last question, which is, what

794
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.360
<v Speaker 1>do you think it is about the pair of normal

795
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:19.400
<v Speaker 1>and these cryptids that continues to fascinate human beings across

796
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:21.639
<v Speaker 1>generations and all cultures.

797
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:26.199
<v Speaker 2>It's the ultimate question, what happens after we die. And

798
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:29.599
<v Speaker 2>it seems strange that Bigfoot would play into that, but

799
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:34.280
<v Speaker 2>of course Bigfoot does, because any mystery plays into that. Look.

800
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:38.599
<v Speaker 2>When I went to USC Film School, one of the

801
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:43.639
<v Speaker 2>things I learned is that no story is about the story.

802
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.360
<v Speaker 2>It's how do I say this, it's the story behind

803
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the story. In other words, when you're writing a murder mystery,

804
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:55.440
<v Speaker 2>what you're really writing about is the mystery of death itself.

805
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.880
<v Speaker 2>And the reason that we can always be interested and

806
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:03.679
<v Speaker 2>will always be in in a murder mystery story automatically

807
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:07.800
<v Speaker 2>is because, in a weird way, what it's doing is

808
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>it's introducing a character that is imposing logic and meaning

809
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:18.440
<v Speaker 2>on an event that we all struggle with because we're

810
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:23.639
<v Speaker 2>all going to die. But when a detective of any

811
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:28.239
<v Speaker 2>stripe can come in and at least solve the physical

812
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:32.760
<v Speaker 2>aspect of what happened, because that is being presented as

813
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.880
<v Speaker 2>a mystery, it touches upon the greater question, which is

814
00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:42.119
<v Speaker 2>why do we die? In what happens next? And that

815
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:46.119
<v Speaker 2>is obviously of pervasive interest to us because that's the

816
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:50.800
<v Speaker 2>journey we are all on. Any mystery, whether it's the

817
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Lockness Monster or Sasquatch or UFOs or ghosts, all of

818
00:48:56.199 --> 00:49:00.880
<v Speaker 2>them brush up against the big unknown, and it allows

819
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.639
<v Speaker 2>us to ask those questions in a way where we

820
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:08.880
<v Speaker 2>can actually form questions and hope to get answers. And

821
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:11.880
<v Speaker 2>then it's just up to how badly do you actually

822
00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:17.039
<v Speaker 2>want physical answers and how deeply do you believe you're

823
00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 2>ever going to actually get physical answers. Look, you and

824
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.639
<v Speaker 2>I know that if you go back to the late

825
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:26.400
<v Speaker 2>sixties and you ask any of those guys Tom Slick

826
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.039
<v Speaker 2>or Reneeda Hinden or Don Hundra, any of those guys

827
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and Grover Krantz of the Big Ones, Peter Burn, if

828
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:35.599
<v Speaker 2>you said in twenty twenty five, will we have the

829
00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:39.880
<v Speaker 2>answer to Bigfoot? They would all have said yes. Not

830
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:42.239
<v Speaker 2>one of them could have imagined that humanity would go

831
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:47.199
<v Speaker 2>another fifty five sixty years and we wouldn't have something.

832
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:52.400
<v Speaker 2>But we don't. Not really, we have a lot more

833
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:55.679
<v Speaker 2>of the same stuff we've always had. What does that

834
00:49:55.840 --> 00:50:00.679
<v Speaker 2>say about our ability to finally ultimately so the question

835
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:05.519
<v Speaker 2>of Sasquatch And for some people that's okay, Yeah, that's

836
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.079
<v Speaker 2>where we're going to be. Some things are going to

837
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:08.840
<v Speaker 2>be a mystery, and it's just going to be that

838
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:12.480
<v Speaker 2>thing we have to gnaw on, talk about and turn

839
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:16.079
<v Speaker 2>over in our minds as we go through whatever. This

840
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:18.000
<v Speaker 2>experience of life actually is.

841
00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Very well, said my friend Richard Hadams Paranormal Bookshelf. Tell

842
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:24.760
<v Speaker 1>everybody where they can find it and what they can

843
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.360
<v Speaker 1>expect when they go and check out the show.

844
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.840
<v Speaker 2>You can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts, and

845
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:31.559
<v Speaker 2>what you can expect to hear is a lot more

846
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:33.760
<v Speaker 2>of what you've just heard all this kind of talk.

847
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.440
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what the podcast is by telling you

848
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:40.119
<v Speaker 2>what people tell me it is, and the people who

849
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:44.639
<v Speaker 2>really enjoy it say, I love this podcast because you're

850
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.360
<v Speaker 2>telling a story. It's a real story. You're talking about

851
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:50.400
<v Speaker 2>subjects we like, but you're talking about your life in

852
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:55.360
<v Speaker 2>a very honest and revealing and vulnerable way that brings

853
00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:59.559
<v Speaker 2>me instantly back to events in my own life, the

854
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:02.960
<v Speaker 2>goods stuff, the bad stuff, the hard stuff, and it

855
00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:06.239
<v Speaker 2>makes me feel less alone along the way. If I'm crying,

856
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm also laughing a lot, and that's good too.

857
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:12.079
<v Speaker 1>It is an amazing show. You guys, go check it out.

858
00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:14.039
<v Speaker 1>I'll make it easy for you. There's a link right

859
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:15.599
<v Speaker 1>here in the show notes. All you have to do

860
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:18.039
<v Speaker 1>is click it, go over and show Richard some love,

861
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:22.159
<v Speaker 1>listen to it, download it, turn on auto downloads. Richard

862
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:24.360
<v Speaker 1>had them thank you so much for coming on the

863
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:25.480
<v Speaker 1>show and giving us your time.

864
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I've had a blast talking to you anytime. Man. I

865
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:29.239
<v Speaker 2>loved it.

866
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:38.360
<v Speaker 1>They say, you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay.

867
00:51:40.119 --> 00:52:10.199
<v Speaker 1>I want Step trying this job, that chid everything.

868
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:14.280
<v Speaker 3>Call me right back, crying back, joy.

869
00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.280
<v Speaker 2>For me, enjoy staying right there.

870
00:52:19.320 --> 00:53:32.960
<v Speaker 3>Call it right away and still stay Step. Still dossssstsstsstusss