1 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:35,759 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boyse, Idaho. 2 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,600 This is your host, Adam Graham. In a moment, we're 3 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,920 going to bring you this week's episode of The Big Story. First, though, 4 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,439 I want to encourage you if you're enjoying the podcast, 5 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:50,880 please follow us using your favorite podcast software. And I 6 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,240 want to encourage you to check out our other podcasts. 7 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,399 We are nearing the end of our Columbo Killers in 8 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,920 Old Time Radio series. Please check that out at amazing 9 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:05,439 dot Great Detectives dot net as part of our amazing 10 00:01:05,799 --> 00:01:08,519 World of the Radio. You'll enjoy it. There are so 11 00:01:08,599 --> 00:01:12,159 many episodes in different mini series we've done, and again 12 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,959 you can check that at amazing dot Great Detectives dot net. 13 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:22,640 But now, from April twenty fifth, nineteen fifty one, here 14 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,519 is more tragic than murder. 15 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: The Big Story. 16 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:48,239 Speaker 3: Well, Missus Stone, mighty nice of you to come. 17 00:01:48,599 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 4: I would miss it for the world. You'r Ma's birthday 18 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,040 and her being the oldest person in Seneca. 19 00:01:54,079 --> 00:01:56,519 Speaker 3: How is she? I'll have to ask you not to 20 00:01:56,599 --> 00:01:59,359 come in. Not that she's sick, of course, just a 21 00:01:59,359 --> 00:01:59,920 little indus. 22 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 4: Oh I'm sorry, Missus. Mayton sends regards of my daughter. 23 00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:05,159 Bake these muffins. 24 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: She'll be delighted and so sorry she can't see. 25 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 4: You, and give her all our love. Ninety years. 26 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:22,719 Speaker 3: Oh, the poor dear soul. Well, that was nice of her, 27 00:02:23,319 --> 00:02:25,879 specially to bring the muffins you like so much. Ma. 28 00:02:26,759 --> 00:02:30,039 You have them later with your dinner. It's too bad 29 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:33,960 you can't enjoy the mother. They look mighty tasty. It's 30 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:50,360 a shame you've been dead these two and a half years. 31 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 5: Hiawatha, Kansas. From the front pages of the Hiawatha, Kansas 32 00:02:55,199 --> 00:02:58,800 Daily World comes the story of a small town reporter 33 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,280 who proved there are things more tragic in this world 34 00:03:03,039 --> 00:03:12,680 than murder. Hiawatha, Kansas. The story is it actually happened, 35 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,520 Virgil Hills story as he lived. 36 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 6: In your paper, Verge Hill. 37 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 7: The Hiawatha Daily World services a community of maybe seven thousand, 38 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:45,800 two thousand and Hiawautha itself four thousand, scattered in surrounding 39 00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:50,479 Brown County and the rest scattered in Niemaha County adjacent. 40 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:54,800 This is the Kansas corn Belt. And you write everything 41 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,360 that goes into the paper, from the leads, through the 42 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,400 golden wedding announcements, through the class of fine ads. And 43 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,520 all the big news there is a has been for 44 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,240 the past two months is the weather one hundred and two, 45 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,520 mine said one hundred and four. And bad jokes about 46 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,800 the weather and the corn crop, the humor of men 47 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:15,919 and desperation. 48 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 8: Well, we ought to make a hundred bushels this year. 49 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,240 You're crazy corn a hundred bushels this year? Oh, I 50 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,519 didn't mean a hundred to the acre. I meant a 51 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:26,720 hundred to the county. 52 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,519 Speaker 7: And those two notes, the temperature and the bad corn, 53 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,040 choke a page one until like a sour hot wind, 54 00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:41,120 the rumor of the story from Seneca, Nimaha County begins 55 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:41,759 coming in. 56 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,319 Speaker 8: I hear tell the old lady was going on ninety 57 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,480 and she had her laying there like that all the time. 58 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 9: She kept her partly in the trunk and the rest 59 00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:53,680 of her. 60 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:05,519 Speaker 7: I can't even talk about it. And since what happens 61 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,160 to anyone in a small town is known by everyone 62 00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:14,600 almost before it happens, this incredible rumor of hideous murder 63 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,800 sends you Verge Hill and your Jalappi thirty miles from 64 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,879 Hiawatham to the beat up Seneca Courthouse and the tight 65 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,800 mouthed Sheriff of Seneca, Kansas, George Bama. 66 00:05:26,439 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 10: I, Sheriff, I'm sorry, Hill, now I have nothing to say. 67 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 11: Come on, Sheriff, after all these years, you can give 68 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:32,399 me a break. 69 00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:34,959 Speaker 10: Cants now, Hill, The truth is, I don't know my 70 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,639 fact yet. That's the honest truth. Now, some I got 71 00:05:37,639 --> 00:05:41,279 some I ain't. Murder is a pretty serious accusation to make, 72 00:05:41,319 --> 00:05:44,120 and I ain't making it. And a murder charge against 73 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,199 a woman going on fifty five name erda Herkimer, Well, 74 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,079 now that's something I ain't ready to put in words 75 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,519 until I know. Just could I talk to her, Sheriff? 76 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:56,279 When I know you can see her, I'll make your promise, 77 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,480 H'll you'll be the first one. What not till I know? 78 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,439 Speaker 11: Well, how can I find out what happened? 79 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:02,199 Speaker 1: Now? 80 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 6: Hell? 81 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 10: You know how small town is seem as I do, 82 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:08,560 going out and mask and look, there ain't much way 83 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,000 to hide what's going on in a small town, now 84 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:11,439 is there. 85 00:06:17,639 --> 00:06:20,319 Speaker 7: He's right, of course, to protect the woman if it's 86 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:25,079 just roma this hideous rumor you've heard, and doubly right 87 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,120 that you'll get your story by just walking around and 88 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,360 asking get more, probably than you boggain. 89 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 4: For my youngster used to come to me and say, Ma, 90 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,720 you better go over to miss Herkimer's where she lives 91 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:38,680 with her mother and Seey. 92 00:06:38,959 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 11: So you went over missus Stone. 93 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,199 Speaker 4: I went over there once the youngster Miami said. It 94 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,720 only happened at night. And I've seen her walking out 95 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:48,240 in a white nightgown with the moon shining down on her, 96 00:06:48,439 --> 00:06:50,360 walking around in the back of the house, outside the 97 00:06:50,399 --> 00:06:53,759 ship just behind the house, five times in a circle, 98 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,680 walking around, and then just stood stockstill and talked. She 99 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,279 wasn't talking to no gard in the sky. He was 100 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:01,600 talking to the devil underfoot. 101 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,759 Speaker 11: Or what do you think she did, mister Stone. 102 00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 4: I've known them both, miss Herkimer and her mother going 103 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:08,560 on to forty years. She killed her ma. That's what 104 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,920 she done, killed her mother, As God is my witness. 105 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 7: With minor variations in the horror, the townfolk tell the 106 00:07:16,959 --> 00:07:21,079 same story. And now you go out to the house itself, 107 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:25,360 which stands as some of the townfolk are described as Herkimer, 108 00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:33,399 like some evil thing against the sky, a house of horror, impenetrable. 109 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,480 Two gods from the Sheriff's office planted there like trees. 110 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:44,160 I'm not admitting anyone just an unpainted black frame house 111 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:50,079 shades drawn, a building of mourning, like some evil thing 112 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,879 apart from everything else in this ordinary Kansas landscape. So 113 00:07:56,879 --> 00:07:58,720 back you go to the sheriff's office. 114 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,759 Speaker 11: Now, look sheriff, it's been f I have six hours. 115 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,199 Now you've got to tell me something. 116 00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:03,879 Speaker 10: Well, I'm as good as my promise. 117 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 11: You mean I can see her? 118 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 10: No, I don't mean that. I said i'd let you. 119 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,639 You're not it. Now I'm going out the house. And 120 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,680 since I got to take one reporter man with me, 121 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,800 you can be that one. 122 00:08:12,839 --> 00:08:14,199 Speaker 11: You said you were gonna let me see her. 123 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 10: I said, when I knew something, i'd give you a break. 124 00:08:16,759 --> 00:08:17,959 Speaker 11: What are you so touchy about? 125 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 10: Well, just come on and you'll see. 126 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:32,799 Speaker 7: The house stands alone on the outskirts of town. Black 127 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:36,879 as before, but now that you're close, you see it's 128 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:42,039 the black of dirt, the black of unpainted wood, the 129 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,639 decay of decades. And the first thing that strikes you 130 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:56,320 is the odor. There are two rooms apart from the 131 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,799 small kitchen. The first has a death life veil over it, 132 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:07,840 a mustiness, a moist, musty, untouchable feeling. And only then 133 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,320 do you discover what it is. 134 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 2: Cats and the canary. 135 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:17,879 Speaker 10: And look at that floor. 136 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,039 Speaker 7: Almost unconsciously you reach down and touch it. 137 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,759 Speaker 11: Cat fur and canary feathers must have been laying here 138 00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:27,720 for years. 139 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 7: A carpet, perhaps an inch thick of fur and feathers, 140 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,279 blackened now with grime, blanketed the floor. Lay on the bed, 141 00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:42,960 the double unmade bed, the broken dresser, the ancient pitcher, 142 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:48,080 and stand the ancient chair, the ancient clothes laid out 143 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,960 as for a birthday, a birthday party, with an inch 144 00:09:52,039 --> 00:09:56,000 layer of feathers and fur overall, and in the midst 145 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,120 of the room on a chair. 146 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:05,039 Speaker 11: A birthday cake. Happy birthday, mother, dear on your ninetieth birthday. 147 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 7: The second room is almost no room. No window can 148 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:22,519 be seen, no walls discerned, no furniture, merely an accumulation 149 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:28,320 of years of packages arrived and mostly unopened. 150 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:33,279 Speaker 10: So, Lisita, how do I know? See for yourself a 151 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,279 dozen house dresses, about two dozen bonnets here, six. 152 00:10:38,039 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 11: Say, ten pairs of slippers never used. 153 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 10: About forty cans came mile. 154 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 11: T Asbury jam whomade, Preserve brand slips shoes Mary Sea 155 00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:50,440 must be half a case of birthday candle. Sheriff, did 156 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,960 you notice, Yes, I saw they're all addressed to her mother, 157 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,759 missus letty herkimerle addressed to the. 158 00:10:54,759 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 10: Mother, and all unopened. 159 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 7: You'll breathe in deeply of the fresh in the six 160 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:05,039 feet that separates the house from the shed. But if 161 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,919 the air in the house was moist and dank, and 162 00:11:08,039 --> 00:11:10,960 somehow more of it, what can. 163 00:11:10,919 --> 00:11:20,759 Speaker 6: You say about the shed? Just where? 164 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:23,759 Speaker 10: She said it would be in the trunk. 165 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 11: But my wood, she must have been laying in here. 166 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,159 Speaker 10: Too, And I half fears was that the hope? 167 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 11: I mean, it's everything there? 168 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 10: I mean, no, no, she said, look around the shed 169 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,759 near the trunk, and then she said, you'll find Let's 170 00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:48,879 go back, she said, after you've seen it, ittle be 171 00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:51,600 easier to talk. She says, she wants to confess. 172 00:11:51,639 --> 00:11:54,279 Speaker 11: I should think, so I should think in any kind 173 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:56,559 of a decent world, she would. 174 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 12: A This is Cy Harris, returning you to your narrator 175 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,399 and the big story of Virgil Hill as he lived 176 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:34,960 it and wrote it. 177 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,879 Speaker 7: The temperature outside is one hundred and one, but inside 178 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:42,559 the cell it must be about one hundred and ten. 179 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,120 And she sits only a part of her face and 180 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,960 little wisps of hair visible. She sits under a huge 181 00:12:50,039 --> 00:12:54,759 blanket shivering. It's Edgar Allan Poe and all the horror 182 00:12:54,799 --> 00:13:00,799 stories you've ever read rolled into one soft spoken, thin, 183 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,159 incredible voice. 184 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 3: I killed my mo and I gotta die. 185 00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 7: Five gaudy rings are on her fingers. She twists them 186 00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:11,840 with trembling hands as she. 187 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 13: Took I'm fifty five. Mother was just thirty five years older, 188 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:20,679 and her last year she wasn't well. There were times 189 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,159 I thought she was losing her mind. 190 00:13:22,279 --> 00:13:25,639 Speaker 7: There's nothing to say. And you and Sheriff Bama, the 191 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,000 only two in the humid room, don't realize that you 192 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:34,519 stand there shivring as well, expectant, intense feeling. No matter 193 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,480 what is said, it cannot possibly be out of place. 194 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: I thought those things because those were the things she liked. 195 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:44,200 The came a mild tea and the raspberry jem, the 196 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,799 homemade preserved brand, and the slippers without the heels, and 197 00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:51,639 the canary seed. Always be sure there's enough to feed 198 00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:53,320 the birds, Etta, she said. 199 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 7: The gold watch ticks on her throat and its tiny 200 00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:59,360 sound is enormous against her pauses. 201 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 3: After a while, she was on the bed for a 202 00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:05,799 long time. I put her in the trunk, but she 203 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:10,519 didn't entirely fit. Why should I talk about it? I 204 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,080 told you what I did. I killed my mother. I 205 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,879 killed her. I gotta die, I gotta die. Why do 206 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:20,679 you keep me waiting? Only just promise me one thing 207 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,879 when I go, that I have a grave pleace next 208 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:26,879 to hers. 209 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 7: Everything she says is thoroughly and completely believable, and yet 210 00:14:40,039 --> 00:14:44,559 not really so. She was devoted that you know? Then, 211 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:45,879 how could she have killed her? 212 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:47,919 Speaker 6: This was a small. 213 00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:52,039 Speaker 7: Town, smaller even than Hiawatha. How could she have kept 214 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,600 hidden for so long? The fact of death, of murder 215 00:14:56,919 --> 00:14:59,240 of a body kept two and a half years in 216 00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:06,120 a shed. Weird yes, hideous, yes, But something else, something more, 217 00:15:06,879 --> 00:15:09,840 And that sends you out of the stifling room and 218 00:15:09,919 --> 00:15:14,240 under the quiet Kansas town. First to the postman, the 219 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,600 man who brought her daily mail, the man who first 220 00:15:17,639 --> 00:15:18,240 discovered it. 221 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,879 Speaker 14: Queer always knew she was Queer, her and her mother. 222 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:24,360 But then I began to get my suspicions. 223 00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 11: Why was that? 224 00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:27,679 Speaker 14: Well? She her mother, missus herkamilad is. She was a 225 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,080 widow from the Civil War. She was one of the 226 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,200 few in the county as gets the Civil War pension. 227 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:34,600 So I always made a fuss deliver it. 228 00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 229 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, Well you gotta sign for that pension the 230 00:15:38,159 --> 00:15:39,960 check that is the party getting it, that. 231 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:40,919 Speaker 7: Is for her. 232 00:15:41,039 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 14: That is well, I would bring it and generally she'd 233 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,080 sign it, but starting a while back, mama's too sick now, 234 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,960 mister Hilliard. Mama's laying down. Now, mister Hilliard, you just 235 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:53,840 leave it and when you come back next time, I'll 236 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,759 have it signed for you. And sure enough it would be. 237 00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 11: You mean she gave out her mother was a lie 238 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,840 in order to cast the pension check. 239 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 14: Could be there's a lot of money in the check, 240 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:12,080 like how much twenty two dollars and seventy five cents. 241 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 11: She'd always come and buy her groceries in general merchandise here. 242 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 15: That's right, never went nowheares else, matter of fact, nearest 243 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,559 teller general stores over mile away. 244 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,399 Speaker 11: Well then what did she buy? 245 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 15: Well, she was to buy that cameramele tea. You'd say, 246 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,080 you keep a good stock of that camera male tea, 247 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,600 because that's kind my mother likes. 248 00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:38,919 Speaker 10: And I thirty eight house dress couldn't keep enough. 249 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 15: I had thirty eight house dresses for her and jam 250 00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:46,600 nothing but raspberry and strawberry preserves kept saying as how 251 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,840 our ma wouldn't need no other jam. Imagine that poor 252 00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:59,200 old lady laying dead there for two and a half years. 253 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 7: Why why had she maintained this fantastic, this elaborate pretense. 254 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,519 So the twenty two seventy five a month, so folks 255 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:14,400 would in gossip. 256 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 11: It doesn't that up. 257 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 7: Why there was something about a fire in the house. 258 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,079 Check the fireman, the fire chief. 259 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 15: Well it was going on last January. I guess she 260 00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:29,119 had a neighbor call me up. She didn't have no phone, 261 00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:32,000 says there's a fire in the house. Well, I go 262 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:34,519 in there, and have you ever been in there? 263 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 11: Yeah, I've been in there. Well, it's a wonder to me. 264 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 15: The whole place didn't go up like that, all those 265 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,119 feathers and dust around. Well, there was this truck and 266 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,440 it got sensed, and she says to me, would you 267 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,559 please take it out into the shed? I says yes, ma'am. 268 00:17:50,079 --> 00:17:52,480 She says, on account of something very precious of mother's 269 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:53,119 is inside. 270 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 11: That's what she said. That's right. See what was inside? 271 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,680 Don't you know? No, blone, just tell me one thing. 272 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,440 Where was the trunk when you moved it? 273 00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 15: Let me see? Oh, laying at the foot of the bed. Hey, 274 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:12,839 what was in it? 275 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 7: The next there's an item in the paper inserted two 276 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,480 days before the confession. This item ran in the Seneca paper. 277 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,839 Speaker 11: Next Sunday will be the ninetieth birthday of missus Letty Herkimer. 278 00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:33,000 Her friends are invited to send her a postcard shower. 279 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,039 Missus Herkimer is unable to walk, but sits up each 280 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,039 day in her chair and eats all their meals with 281 00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:40,559 her daughter. 282 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 7: And the next day the following announcement inserted in the 283 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:44,880 same paper. 284 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 11: Missus Leeddy Herkimer, who was ninety yesterday, received many postcards 285 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,079 and other gifts, including a bouquet, two homemade cakes, and 286 00:18:54,079 --> 00:18:59,599 her favorite brand of strawberry preserves and muffins. Missus Herkimer 287 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:11,519 was great lately pleased. Thanks all her friends. You were 288 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:12,839 the last person to call it her home. 289 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 4: Missus Stone, well, when she told me that the poor 290 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,559 soul wasn't fit to receive people, wasn't feeling up to it, 291 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,440 she said, I walked away, but I kind of walked 292 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,359 back and looked in and I saw her Ella that is, 293 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,599 standing in the shed and talking with a cup of 294 00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:29,079 tea in her hand. To the trunk. Well, I said 295 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,119 to myself, Oh, the poor souls lost her mind entirely. 296 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 11: What did you do? 297 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:33,519 Speaker 3: Well? 298 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 4: I ran back quick as I could, you can be sure, 299 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,440 and I got the sheriff and we both came back, 300 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,559 and not too soon either, because there she was with 301 00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:43,000 a bottle half to her lips already, and the sheriff 302 00:19:43,079 --> 00:19:44,799 ran in and took it away from her, and it 303 00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:46,839 was a half pint of chloroform. She was trying to 304 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:47,880 do away with herself. 305 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 7: Why why a woman kills her mother, keeps the body 306 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,599 in the house for two and a half years? Why 307 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,519 is clothing for her shoes? 308 00:19:57,599 --> 00:19:58,039 Speaker 6: Canary? 309 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,799 Speaker 7: See insert's notices and the paper thanks guests for calling 310 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,039 not only the lie, but the extent of the lie. 311 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,440 Why And so you go back to the house to find, 312 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:15,240 if possible, the answer, And there on the bed, under 313 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:19,559 the pillow, you'll find scraps of paper written on the pencil, 314 00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:26,759 bound together with a rusty safety pin, a diary, something 315 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,119 not even an Edgar Allan Poe would ever have dreamed up. 316 00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:35,240 And then back to ourselves, why. 317 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,079 Speaker 3: Do you torture me? Why do you keep me waiting? 318 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,039 I said, I killed her, and I've got to die 319 00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:40,480 why why. 320 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 11: Let me read you something. Mother is so sick, poor mother. 321 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,599 Her pain is terrible. Mother is so sick. If only 322 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,680 something happens, please let it happen. 323 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,599 Speaker 3: Yes, she was, She suffered, so I prayed that it 324 00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:56,119 would come quick. But it didn't. 325 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,839 Speaker 11: Last night I put mother to bed at about eleven o'clock, 326 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,720 but she couldn't sleep, and she said she was frightened. 327 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,200 And she said, Darling, stay with me to night. I'm frightened. 328 00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:06,799 Speaker 3: Yes, she was very frightened. 329 00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 11: I said, Mother, I've not slept in so long. Let 330 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,680 me into the other room to sleep. 331 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:12,559 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, that's what I said. 332 00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 11: And then about twelve I looked in to see how 333 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:19,640 she was, and she was sleeping on her left side, 334 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,799 and the doctor said she shouldn't sleep on her left side. 335 00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:25,960 And I said to myself, if I don't turn her over, 336 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:31,920 maybe she'll maybe the pain will go away, maybe she 337 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,119 won't ever have pain again. 338 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: But I didn't go in and turn her over. I 339 00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:36,799 let her lay like that, and it killed her. 340 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:39,599 Speaker 11: But it didn't. It didn't miss Herkimer. I spoke to 341 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,599 the doctor. I spoke to more than one doctor. They 342 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,640 all said it didn't make any difference. Which side she 343 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,039 lay on, she had come to her natural end. 344 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,839 Speaker 3: I killed her. I left her like that, and I 345 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:48,400 killed her. 346 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,319 Speaker 11: And the reason you signed the checks with her name 347 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,640 was to get the money for her things she'd have wanted, 348 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,319 just things your mother would want. Yes, yes, you never 349 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,400 spend any of the money for yourself, but only on 350 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:00,640 things that's your wanted. 351 00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 3: That's right. Never said. 352 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:04,319 Speaker 11: And then when you started it pretending that she was 353 00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:08,160 still alive, you couldn't stop. And at night you used 354 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,000 to walk out at night because you didn't want to 355 00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:14,559 leave your mother alone in the shed. Isn't that right? Yes? Yes, 356 00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:16,519 And you talked to her, You told her what you 357 00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:18,279 were going to get for her, and you did it 358 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:19,920 because it was the only way you knew to make 359 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,680 up to her, because you thought you killed her. 360 00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 3: As God is my witness, that's the truth. 361 00:22:24,319 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 11: Miss Herkimer. You didn't kill anyone. Your mother died a 362 00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:31,119 natural death, and all you did was act that way 363 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,599 because your conscience bothered you so because you felt you 364 00:22:35,759 --> 00:22:43,359 neglected her. You hadn't. You didn't kill anyone. I didn't 365 00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:46,920 know you didn't kill anyone. 366 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,519 Speaker 3: What you say is the truth. If only I had 367 00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:55,400 been able to say it. I wouldn't have had to 368 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:01,720 do what I did, would I. No, you wouldn't, young man. 369 00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:04,960 I'm sorry for all the trouble I've caused you and 370 00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:08,359 the others. I only hope the people in Seneca won't 371 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,640 go on saying what they're saying about me now that 372 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:13,200 I'm a horror woman. 373 00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 11: I hope they won't. 374 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:17,599 Speaker 3: And if I had known you were going to be 375 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,480 so nice, I would have made you a cup of 376 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:23,279 tea and put on my shoes. 377 00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:28,319 Speaker 7: And only then you notice looking down that she's been 378 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,279 sitting there with a blanket around her thin, emaciated body 379 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,000 and her feet. There's the day she was born. 380 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 5: Now we read you that telegram from Virgil Hill of Ohiowa, 381 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,559 the Kansas Daily World. 382 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 11: Edda Herkimer, a broken woman when released rejected by her townspeople, 383 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:09,160 was never able to live down her reputation as a 384 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,640 horror woman. She died broken hearted, a little less than 385 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:13,279 four years. 386 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 16: Later, and so ends another Big Story. 387 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,279 Speaker 17: In order to protect the names of people actually involved 388 00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:31,880 into Night's authentic Big Story, the names of all characters 389 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,359 and the dramatization were changed, with the exception of the 390 00:24:34,400 --> 00:25:31,960 newspaper reporter, This is the United States Armed Forces Radio Service, 391 00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:34,359 the Voice of Information and Education. 392 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,079 Speaker 1: Welcome back. Here is the cast list again. We're going 393 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,960 from archive dot org and the original script pages posted 394 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,400 by the old time radio researchers. And starred as Virgil 395 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,359 was Bill Lipton and also in the cast Agnes Young, 396 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:15,279 ethel Owen, James Stevens, Bill Smith, Charles Eggleston, Bill Griffiths, 397 00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:21,200 and Jason Johnson. There is no stories behind the Big 398 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,640 Story details on this case other than that the details 399 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,559 have been located and will be updated soon. But it's 400 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,519 not been added, and this would be a tricky story 401 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:36,319 to track down. You would probably have to go to 402 00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:42,160 a physical location. I was able to find some of 403 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,160 these on newspapers dot com, but The Big Story didn't 404 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,680 take the position that these type of stories necessarily have 405 00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:57,319 to come from lord cities. How Watha is and was 406 00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:02,559 actually the big town in brown Own County, Kansas. Three thousand, 407 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,799 two hundred and ninety four people that lived there in 408 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,359 nineteen fifty and the number is pretty much the same today, 409 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,759 although the population did peak after the nineteen eighty census. 410 00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:22,319 Seneca is also a small town in Kansas. Population in 411 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,839 nineteen fifty was under two thousand, and now it's slightly 412 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,240 above two thousand. The Wikipedia pays for Seneca boast that 413 00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:35,880 it once had a baseball team, a Class D minor 414 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,279 league team that played a single season in nineteen ten 415 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,960 and had no team nickname, and there have been no 416 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:52,039 team since. So for a series that featured stories about 417 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,400 Dorothy Kilgaron, and this is about as rural a story 418 00:28:57,559 --> 00:29:01,400 as you'll get in old time radio, and it's a 419 00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:07,119 very different story. There's a definite mental health angle that 420 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,839 would be focused on a lot today. 421 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,519 Speaker 10: But this also. 422 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,599 Speaker 1: Gives us another side of small towns. I think that 423 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,000 there was back then, and to a degree still is now, 424 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,759 a bit of an aura around small towns of representing 425 00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:30,440 this sort of innocence and the idea that they represent 426 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,200 real community, a place where everyone knows everyone else. And 427 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,599 I think that is true of quite a few small 428 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,359 towns in America, but not every small town. I've lived 429 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,200 in small towns where everything was very cliquish, and there 430 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,000 are also some weird small towns, and this gives us 431 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,680 a perspective of what life can be like in a 432 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,079 small town when you're kind of on the front of 433 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,880 the town. People know of you, but they don't really 434 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,480 know you, and so they'll do things that are social nasties, 435 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:16,519 like bringing a birthday present. They don't really look closer. 436 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,759 You know, it's a cliche. You can't hide anything in 437 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,640 a small town, and you just have to say, Okay, 438 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:28,400 this lady, not even a professional criminal or somebody particularly sneaky, 439 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:33,400 hit a dead body for two and a half years now. 440 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:36,440 I do not want to offend any rural listeners. I 441 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,279 am in no way anti small town. What I am saying, though, 442 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,440 is the size of the population doesn't determine whether it's 443 00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,279 a good place to live. It depends very much on 444 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,480 the individual in question and the way that the community operates. Well, 445 00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:58,480 now it's time to thank our Patreon supporter of the day. 446 00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:02,359 Thank you so much to Stewart, Patreon supporter since November 447 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,680 twenty twenty two, currently supporting the podcast at the shawmus 448 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,839 level of four dollars or more per month. Thanks so 449 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,920 much for your support, Stuart, and that'll do it for today. 450 00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:15,200 If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your 451 00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:18,519 favorite podcast software and be sure to rate and review 452 00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:22,000 the podcast wherever you download it from. We'll be back 453 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:25,039 next Tuesday with another episode of The Big story. But 454 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,000 join us back here tomorrow for broadways my beat where. 455 00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 18: Except what I told I see it might have take place. 456 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:34,480 I reported common decency. 457 00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 19: I figured what you call it murder took place over 458 00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:37,200 a week ago. 459 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 11: How come it took you so long to give in 460 00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:40,559 to the call of decency. 461 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,839 Speaker 18: You've got to point them, mister clo. Tell me see 462 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,400 if I can explain it to try hard with all 463 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,440 my money. I was a bookie, was like, I told you, you 464 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,079 told me, look, let me readcap it hunh. So maybe 465 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:53,759 it'll make sense to you. It takes me a week 466 00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:56,000 plus to confess I saw a man push another man 467 00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:56,680 off a roof. 468 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 19: You were a book You take it from there. 469 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,839 Speaker 18: Yeah, a book, I'd tell you. Boys came up with 470 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,079 a thing to trotle, initiative, dull, a pioneer impulse of it. 471 00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:08,160 So I pitted my brain against society. Try to come 472 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,799 up with a respectable die to earn my nut, waffles 473 00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:13,359 and juice. But my mind has been in such a 474 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,640 tight rep with twelve years of making books. 475 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,519 Speaker 9: All I can come up with is buglery. 476 00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 19: That's when you saw it happen when you were robbing 477 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,000 an apartment in the east thirties. 478 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 18: You got a woman says I robbed. I didn't I 479 00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:25,400 tell you this murder made such an impact. 480 00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,039 Speaker 9: On my conscience. I didn't rob and I never will. 481 00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 19: According to our books, what you saw was a suicide 482 00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:31,519 suicide of a man named John Elgin. 483 00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 9: Her books can be mistaken as me. 484 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,119 Speaker 19: I know you could identify the man if we found him. 485 00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:41,319 The man you say porstealgient off the roof, the man 486 00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:43,039 you say is a murderer. 487 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 9: Identify him. 488 00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:46,799 Speaker 18: I would draw my eyes into slits, pretend I was 489 00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:49,799 in the emotional tumboil of over a week ago, witnessing 490 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,480 event from a fire escape across the airway, and I 491 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,799 would try to identify him. 492 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,279 Speaker 9: You find him, and I sure would try. But I 493 00:32:57,319 --> 00:32:58,160 make no promises. 494 00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 19: Yeah, ask your pardon, mistery. It's okay, But for one, 495 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,240 I didn't let you finish telling me why it took 496 00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:06,319 you this long to come. 497 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,079 Speaker 11: To us with what you saw. 498 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 7: Forgetted kid. 499 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,599 Speaker 1: Hope you'll be with us then in the meantime. Send 500 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,960 your comments to Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net, 501 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:20,200 follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and check us 502 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:26,720 out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com, slash Great detectives from Boise, Idaho. 503 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:30,079 This is your host, Adam graham Son and off.