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Speaker 1: I'm married to a buncle pop.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we got better to conjoined in a subway shop.

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Oh oh, I'm married to a buncle pop. Oh by

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a man's mat.

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Speaker 2: They come to me through a tube.

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Speaker 1: My whole life it's been watching on a tube. Whoa.

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Oh oh, we got weard a courtius been a subway shop.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: We got wed at courts and in a subway shop.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we got wet courtaus in a subway shop.

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Speaker 4: Oh oh oh, I got married.

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Speaker 1: To a fuco pass.

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Speaker 5: Whoa, we got ready.

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Speaker 6: Come joint in the subway shop.

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Speaker 1: For I'm married to uncle pass.

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Speaker 6: Whoa I imagine me and Rosie come to me through

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tub hoo like the stick watching on the two.

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Speaker 4: Whoa, whoa open boot.

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Speaker 7: Joy to see the subway shop over. We got waiting

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for the sad subway shop for.

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Speaker 5: Mm hm.

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Speaker 7: Oh, I'm married to a phone cap.

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Speaker 1: We got ready. We got joined in a sockway shop.

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Speaker 2: Right, he is a man a roads. They come to

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me through the two night missen then a road so lonco.

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Speaker 1: Phone h whoa bunco funk.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh oh, I got married.

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Speaker 1: I got married to my phone go papa. We got ready.

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We got joined in a subway shop.

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Speaker 8: Whoa go.

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Speaker 2: Phone call, love, phone call.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to my phone. Do we got wedded?

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Speaker 9: Come join in.

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Speaker 1: The subway shop. Oh, I'm happy.

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Speaker 2: Married to a phone call.

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Speaker 10: Boo, we got joined courts in the subway shop.

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Speaker 8: Boo.

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Speaker 1: Vitamins and biscuits. Some minerals they come and be do

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it too, the Holy s man watching on the two.

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Speaker 11: Whoa olet me.

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Speaker 6: Too my phone.

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Speaker 12: Boo, we got wedded.

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Speaker 5: We got joined in the subway shopping.

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Speaker 7: Boy, the mats and minerals.

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Speaker 1: I come to middle it too, the mats and minerals.

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The coming mid to this year too.

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Speaker 13: Who all right? What's up? Welcome everybody. It's that time again,

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another live stream, another open chat. You better bring some heat, son.

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We got a lot of people talking, talking smack. They're

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ready to come into bay. They're gonna set me straight.

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They're gonna expose me. You about to get exposed. Well,

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we always give that opportunity. So here is the link.

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You can call in right there on Twitter and you

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can set me straight. Set me straight, baby, tell me

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where I'm a fake. I'm a fraud, im a kg B,

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I'm an operative. This is your chance to finally expose me.

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Put me in my place. Son. Of course, you can

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also ask questions. You don't have to call into debate.

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That's always the most entertaining.

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Speaker 8: T L.

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Speaker 13: What's up? TL cobble, Timeline cobble. I'm the highway patrol

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of debate today with these glasses. What's up?

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Speaker 5: Man? I'm mute?

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Speaker 13: Talk dude, what's up? Unmute? You gotta unmute yourself. Man,

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it's like eight years of this, y'all. Come on, okay,

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don't umute yourself. Just sit there muted. Then fine, anybody

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else want to call in? Lieutenant Bilki, what's up? Dude?

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Welcome everybody?

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Speaker 5: Hello?

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Speaker 10: Oh?

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Speaker 8: Then I was quick? What's up?

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Speaker 10: Jay?

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Speaker 8: How are you? How bless good?

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Speaker 13: What's on your mind?

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Speaker 5: All right?

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Speaker 14: So, like all right, I actually I'm orthodox. I know

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you heard a debate, but I just just genuine question.

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So I'm trying to like really understand how to I guess,

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give an honest like refutation. I guess you would say

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of like Roman Catholicism, because like, okay, I've seen a

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lot of some of you, like you're like not only

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your large debates, like more just your informal ones where

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you know you'll mention the contradictions and the dog mo. Overtime,

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you'll mention like, you know, the natural theology not working

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a bunch of things. But it's like I always like

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every time I bring it up, like I don't even

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try to debate it. I kind of like dialogue it

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with uh Catholic folks, and it's like I always get

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some different answer. Like, for example, I had one guy

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say like, we teach natural theology in a in a way,

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and then I was like kind of quoting him.

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Speaker 5: How I forgot who was quite.

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Speaker 14: Necessarily, but it was basically how like they have the

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idea that you know, you have to know God through matter,

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and they were basically saying like, oh, we hold that

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position too, But like I didn't really.

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Speaker 13: Know what natural theology is. Natural theology is not can

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you know God through matter?

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Speaker 14: So okay, so it will be like the proper way

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to like define it then, so you can have like

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the distinction because.

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Speaker 13: Natural theology is defined as reasoning about God without any

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reference to divine revelation.

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Speaker 14: So no reference to divine revelation, So where is this

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in Catholic dogma?

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Speaker 15: Then?

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Speaker 13: Like where find John Paul the seconds and cyclical fetus

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at ratio but any theological dictionary that's Protestant or Catholic

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will define natural theology that way. Okay, interesting, but no,

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I mean natural theology is not even like the easiest

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best way to disprove Roman Catholicism. Rotholicism is a system,

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and if you can show us some level defeater, then

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the system's false. So just go to one of the

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papal dogmatic contradictions. Why is that not a defeat for

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the system.

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Speaker 14: I don't know, because I've I've had guys like try

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to say, oh, Council Florence, Council Florence, we had the

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league gates, and then they change their mind.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, again, that's not addressing what I just said. So

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they can let them say all that stuff. Leagates aren't infallible.

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As Voice of Reason admitted in that debate that if

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the leagates go back and the bishops reject what the

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legates said, doesn't count. Okay, So that's that ends that

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argument right there. In Voice of Reason admitted that in

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ubie debate, what I'm saying is, if there's a Roman

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Catholic dogmatic contradiction, does that not invalidate the system?

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Speaker 14: I would say it does, Okay, then that's the case,

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like can you just reference me?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 14: I noticed like a medieval time dogmin and like Vatican two,

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Like what would you reference?

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Speaker 5: Just like it?

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Speaker 8: Have that to point out? I guess.

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Speaker 13: So if you type in Vatican one, Jay Dyer, you'll

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get about four talks that pop up in videos that

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pop up. All of those would answer that question in

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more detail. But I made a specific video called this

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one dogmatic contradiction refused Catholicism, and that one is about

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when I'm sunging to them in the temporal supremacy of

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the Roman bishop, when.

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Speaker 5: I'm saying that. Okay, all right, copy of that? All right? Cool.

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Speaker 14: I don't want to take two your time, but thank you.

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Speaker 13: For a good question anytime. Yeah, be sure and watch

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the when I'm sunk to them video. It's called this

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one contradiction.

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Speaker 14: Let me find it, Okay, I usually watched like when

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I'm like driving, This is it.

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Speaker 13: This one dogmatic contradiction ends Roman Catholicism.

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Speaker 8: This is it?

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Speaker 5: Did you? Uh?

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Speaker 8: You're on YouTube streaming, aren't you correct?

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Speaker 14: Okay, let me.

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Speaker 5: Surprise. I think I can just look it up, you said,

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Jay Dyer. One refutation for romcals.

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Speaker 13: This one dogmatic contradiction ends Roman Catholicism. Is the video

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that's eighteen minutes. That's a really strong argument. And you

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can type in one Jay Dyer and you'll get four

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separate videos about Vatican One.

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Speaker 5: All right, copy it. I appreciate that. Man, God, bless you, MANBC.

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Speaker 13: Thank you. Yeah, good questions. I'm always happy to answer

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honest questions. Confused, what's up? Man?

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Speaker 5: Hello? Hey, hey, I had two kind of questions.

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Speaker 16: I don't really have a debate, but my brother is

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a Calvinist, and I'm wondering if a good argumentation towards

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him is like break down his idea of total depravity.

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And I use the two parallel doctrines of total inability

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and the doctrine of the reprobate to show that it's

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not giving everybody the ability to respond to the Gospels.

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And Jesus says that he wills, the Father wills that

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all might come to repentance.

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Speaker 5: So would that be big good argument against him.

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Speaker 13: No, they're just gonna say that there's two different wills

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in God. There's a decreative will and a will of desire,

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or a will of a moral will where he would

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like everyone to be saved, but that doesn't mean that

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he decrees, So you're just going to end up in

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an infinite argument with them over the five points of Calvinism.

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I wouldn't waste my time waiting that top debating that topic.

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I would debate other things like the christology or the

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canon of scripture. And if you can demonstrate the errors

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that way, it's much more effective because they're just going

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to keep arguing in endless biblical text with you, meister.

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Every time you point out a text about universality, they're

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going to counter with some other verse about particularity. What's up, meister?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 17: Hello, Jay, I ask you a days ago about my

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colleague that is the nominational and he invited me to

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some zoom group or online shirts thing. Will this fall

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into ken On thirty three of LAOSDA. Do not pray

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with heretics to join this group that they read the Bible.

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Speaker 13: I would ask your priest whether he thinks it's allowable.

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I mean, I wouldn't be joining Protestant zoom groups. But

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father Deacon, what would you say about that? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Why?

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Speaker 12: I mean, keep in mind too, we're not rule worshipers.

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Rules and guidelines are in place to keep you healthy

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to heal. And so the reason why we don't pray

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with schismatics, heterodox and heretics, even if they have some

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common things that we hold.

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Speaker 5: Error gets in. The other thing too, is that it.

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Speaker 13: Also suggests that we have the same faith to them,

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which is not true.

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Speaker 12: And I like to use the marriage analogies and affairs.

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You're married to the Orthodox Church, your baptismal services is

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in the dance Isaiah.

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Speaker 5: That's a marriage, just like the marriage and just like

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the ordination. So what you're doing is you're having an

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affair with other bodies.

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Speaker 12: So would you ever say, well, can you imagine me

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saying to my wife that, like, well, you know, I

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was fooling around with this other girl lead but she's Christian,

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she holds, you know, ten of the same.

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Speaker 5: Views you do. That's one of the reasons why you

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do not unite.

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Speaker 12: And that's flirting and messing around with another bride is

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when you start praying and doing worship services with.

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Speaker 5: So it's infidelity. I think about that way. That makes

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a lot more sense.

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Speaker 13: Thank you. Yeah. People keep asking I don't know when

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Rouslan is going to release his video, as you guys,

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I don't know, Troy, what's up?

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Speaker 5: Hello?

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Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 18: kJ, Can we talk a little bit about bitcoin and

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micro strategy?

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Speaker 5: Sure? So I saw that you recently purchased a micro strategy. Yeah, yeah,

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and I have some too.

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Speaker 18: I have about six hundred nineteen percent, and I think

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it's great and I hope you continue to DCA.

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Speaker 5: But I also do think bitcoin's.

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Speaker 18: Good as well, just because of being able to you know,

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take loans, equity loans hopefully in the future. But my

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question is, what do you think this cycle Bitcoin's gonna

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talk out or do you think we're gonna not do

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the traditional four year cycle but do this.

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Speaker 13: Supersychal, I have no idea. I mean, everything is we're

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in new charted territories or uncharted territories, so I have

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no idea. I mean, we've never seen.

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Speaker 8: This level of.

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Speaker 13: You know, government institutional adoption acceptance. Banks are caving now.

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So I would guess conservatively that it would top out

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at maybe one hundred and fifty two hundred, could go higher.

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But it just depends on a lot of other factors too,

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Like you know, the geopolitical sphere. What happens is there

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does a war break out, you know, all those things

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can put a damper on it too. So I mean,

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I definitely think that we're at least going to be

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at a million and four or five years.

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Speaker 5: I agree with that.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, and maybe sooner, I hope.

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Speaker 5: So, I hope so too.

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, all right, your time, cham.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, props all you Bitcoin bros today because you know what,

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we just hid another all time high a few minutes ago,

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like one O nine something.

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Speaker 5: So oh man, I just sold all my right before.

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Speaker 13: And yeah, remember to buy high. So loo. I don't

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know where the Roman Catholics are that we're going to

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come in here in debate Tony. As usual, there's a

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lot of they bark on Twitter and then they don't.

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There's no bite. It's all bark, no bite.

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Speaker 15: Yo.

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Speaker 13: Hello, what's on your mind? Oh Jay?

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Speaker 15: Can I get some clarity on the drama recently with

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Bishop writing a letter?

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Speaker 13: Did you see did you see the other letter?

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Speaker 10: No?

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Speaker 13: Okay, well I posted it right under it. Why did

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you not read that one?

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Speaker 15: I did not see any response at that time.

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Speaker 13: Yeah. So the letter says that I have permission to

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talk about theology and he supports my work. The other

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letter says that I'm not an official representative of ro Corps.

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I'm not employed by ro Corps, hence freelance.

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Speaker 15: Okay, yeah, I mean a lot of it was blacked

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out to be cool Catholic fishing, leaving out important details.

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Speaker 13: Well, I mean, yeah, who knows what's in the blacked

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out part. But I talked to my priests about it,

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and he said he was very close to Metropolitan Hilarium.

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By the way, Mess Parlton Hilarian has passed away. For

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those people, the Romancalachs think that this is like our

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bishop right now, he passed away. He's not alive anymore.

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Speaker 8: But the uh.

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Speaker 13: When I first joined ro Corps, I took all my

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articles to for Vladimir and I said, you know, I

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don't want to be doing this publicly without permission to

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do so. And he wrote to the bishop and the

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Bishop was aware of what I did at that time,

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and he said that Jay's a good writer, a solid

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Orthodox apologist, and we need him in our time. Separate

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from that, a question was asked, does Jay officially represent

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ro Corp And the answer was no, But they don't

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say that to anyone. No one gets like a free

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pass blessing to totally. It's not like the Roman Catholic

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system where you get like an impromater or a nil obstat.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 13: Roman Catholics have this idea that anytime you do something

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with that you got to get a nil obstat. But

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you can see right here what he wrote to my priest.

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He said, quote from what writings of Jada I've read.

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I know that he's a solid Orthodox writer. I thank

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God for people like him who defend the Orthodox faith

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in difficult times like this. Does that sound like somebody

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who's reprimanding me in any way?

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Speaker 5: Sounds like quite the opposite.

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Speaker 13: Right, So the letter is saying he does not speak

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for Rocorp. But they wouldn't say that any parishioner. They

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wouldn't say for doctor Bo Branson or doctor David Bradshaw.

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They are the voice of the OCA or the Antiochin church.

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The one reason for that too is that I was

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talking to my priests about it. He said. The bishops

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are very careful with the way that they were things

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because they can be legally liable and people don't realize that,

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Like if somebody does something in the name of ro Corps,

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then it's like it could potentially be something legal, so

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they guard their words very carefully about how they say things,

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and so no, and his point was that they're not

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going to give anyone like a blanket quote blessing to

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represent ro corpor something like that, which, by the way,

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I never even said that. What I always said was

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that I have permission to talk about theology, and Father

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Vladimir said a lay person doesn't technically need the permission

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of the bishop to talk about theology, and in fact

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that I went to them and got permission was actually

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a sign of humility.

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Speaker 2: Night's fishness.

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Speaker 15: The fact that I've seen some music videos called you

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a field illosion, but I don't think you can.

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Speaker 5: Be a is that correct?

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Speaker 13: There is no official title in the Orthodox Church as

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to who can be called a theologian. I mean, there's

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some saints that are called, you know, John the theologian,

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Gregor the elogian, but I don't. I don't even know

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what you're what you're talking about? What do you what

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do you think like people? I've never called myself that.

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I call myself a comedian, So.

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Speaker 15: Okay, yeah, just some mut videos, but I guess that's that.

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Speaker 13: Well, Father Deacon, you are are also clergy. You could

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speak to this. I mean, everything Father Vladimir said was

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essentially what Father Deacon and and Ice has always said,

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Like laity, uh can speak about things without a You

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don't have to get permission from your bishop to do

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anything that you want to do, per se. But if

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you are going to talk about theology, it's good to

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have permission to do that. But that's not the same

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thing as like, I mean, I suppose it's Father Deacon

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is a deacon. He represents his jurisdiction certainly more than

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a layperson, and clergy are held to a lot more

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a higher standard, but even laity are not. Like, you

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don't have to get permission to do everything that you

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do per se, But if you are going to talk

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about theology, it is a good practice to have permission

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to do so. Is that correct, Father Deacon.

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Speaker 5: Yes, And it just gives us a kind of a rubric.

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Speaker 12: And what's the word I'm looking for a metric for

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who should I be listening to and who I shouldn't.

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Speaker 5: Well, obviously, in such confusing times, that's why people go. Now.

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Speaker 12: First of all, every ordained clergy has the blessing in

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virtue of the ordination to teach and preach depending on

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what level or you are the administration of sacraments and

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things like that. So we've already had our blessings. But

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you know, even if we're going to do something big

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or something like that where I would have an official

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capacity representing the church, like for example, the conference, like

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that's all piscopal blessing, and even that's not necessarily required,

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but like Jay says, it protects, it's in the good

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order of the church.

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Speaker 5: It protects the bishop, protects the priests involved, myself and

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the parishioners too, And so it definitely makes it clear

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when that it's like, well this this is actually blessed.

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The rest of the stuff you don't know.

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Speaker 12: So it's it's kind of practical and moral kind of

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and spiritual guidance that.

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Speaker 5: It's in the good order of the church to get blessings.

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Speaker 12: But yeah, you don't become autistic and be like, well,

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I've got to get a blessing from my bishop to

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go to home depot and because well here's somebody asked

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me about the gospel. Better call the bishop and do

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you see what I mean?

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Speaker 13: And by the way, don't priests have to get permission too?

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And I mean it wouldn't it be like, like you're

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saying about your conference, like it's good to have the

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blessing of the bishop to do the conference right. Absolutely,

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if you don't get permission for everything you do and

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every time you talk. And by the way, this whole time,

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I've always stressed that I have permission to talk about theology.

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That doesn't mean that I get everything right. If I

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get something wrong, I'm held accountable just like anybody else

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will be held accountable. And I'm not just held accountable

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by Father Vladimir. I would be held accountable by Father Deacon,

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all the people that are the clergy, that are in

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his circles would hold me accountable. Uh, there's there's an

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accountability there at multiple levels, which is the purpose of

397
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the whole thing. It's it's not about like rule worship,

398
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It's about are you held accountable? And the thing with

399
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the a lot of the online Twitter profiles is that

400
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,160
no one holds them accountable. They do whatever they want,

401
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,000
say whatever they want. They say a lot of things

402
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that are wrong and have no permission at all. So

403
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it's totally different.

404
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I just can you help me figure out the

405
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psychology of this?

406
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Speaker 12: We don't even know if they're most of them, I'd

407
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say about ninety eight percent of them, we don't even

408
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know if they're Orthodox.

409
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Speaker 5: You don't know these people in person. They say all kinds.

410
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Speaker 12: Of incorrect stuff. I want to know, why are people listening?

411
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Why are you listening to that?

412
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:28,039
Speaker 5: Well?

413
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Speaker 15: I listened to a lot of converts in America who

414
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list like five moons away from the nearest church, so

415
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Twitter is all they have.

416
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Speaker 12: Well, what could be what I'm What I'm saying though,

417
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is you don't know. So there's a lot of people

418
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who are not Orthodox, a lot of subverters. So I

419
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just find a real kind of niciativity that It's like,

420
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I don't even know. If you ran into a random

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person on the street and they were like, oh, let

422
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:01,759
me tell you something about your brother, and it's like,

423
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who are you, It's like, well, don't worry about it.

424
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Speaker 5: Would you believe some preposterous the story about some random

425
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person you met?

426
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Speaker 12: But yeah, everybody online like they just they just listen

427
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to anything people say. I think a lot of it

428
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has to do with confirmation bias, especially people who are

429
00:28:28,839 --> 00:28:32,519
in posi like clergy and your Orthodox brothers that you

430
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,440
do know you should give them the benefit of the doubt,

431
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and not the people who you can't actually confirm or

432
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Orthodox that have a blessing.

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Speaker 5: We just these people are strangers. We have no idea,

434
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and I try to live by that. It's like, yeah,

435
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even clergy make mistakes and have been wrong, but I'm

436
00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:52,319
going to.

437
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Speaker 12: Give them the benefit of the doubt and my Orthodox

438
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brothers before some random person.

439
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Speaker 5: And what you look is you can know them by

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their fruits.

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Speaker 12: They're constantly stirring up turmoil and fighting and it's demonic

442
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and people are just so dumb and naive. It's like

443
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those are the people they listen to, and you're free

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to do that. It's just unfortunates to one's own spiritual

445
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moral demand.

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Speaker 13: I mean, how many times have Orthodox priests and clergy

447
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and my own priests been on my live streams with me?

448
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How silly that is?

449
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Speaker 5: This?

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Speaker 13: Would he come on my live stream and we do

451
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a conference together and do an Italy pilgrimage together, if

452
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he didn't give permission, and if they didn't give permission

453
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for what I do? Just think I said, I mean, look,

454
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I'm showing on the screen right here, this is our

455
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conference we our video we did last year promoting our pilgrimage.

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He used my channel to recruit people to go to

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the pilgrimage, but he doesn't want to support my work

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or be associated with me. Well, here he is right

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here with me talking about Look, the history of the Renaissance.

460
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There's an entire almost three hours two and a half

461
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hour talk on the Renaissance that we did. I mean,

462
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by the way, none of the people involved in any

463
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of this reached out to my priest. Any of them

464
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could just ask Father Vladimir, does Jay have permission to

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talk about this stuff? Why would he come on my

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channel if I didn't have permission. It's so stupid.

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Speaker 12: These people are not interested in truth. I'm gonn give

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to a stark warning to all of you too, and

469
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forgive me if this is a bit harsh. If you

470
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listen to these people, if you judge.

471
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Speaker 5: Your Orthodox brothers, another clergy member, by listening to these people,

472
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you will be judged.

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Speaker 12: In the same way you may find either in the

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Kingdom to come on judgment day or in this life,

475
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,720
that you will be found in a similar position in

476
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:47,359
which you're slandered and libels created, and you'll be held right.

477
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,680
That'll be put on you and people write the same

478
00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:53,680
standard up. Well why don't even investigate it?

479
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:56,079
Speaker 5: Like Jay said, you could call his priests, you'd call

480
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,000
the bishop, right, you can.

481
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 12: You can look at any of the clergy that have

482
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:02,720
been planted and look, it's all transparent.

483
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:07,319
Speaker 13: But it's it's the same people saying that you're defrocked,

484
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:08,680
which is just made up.

485
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's it takes two seconds just to look to

486
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,599
see if any clergy member is in good standing. Well,

487
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:20,119
there could be a day when you're accused and nobody

488
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,480
looks at it, and you're held in trial, your and

489
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:23,400
you're sentenced.

490
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 5: Because but ultimately that's the type.

491
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 12: Of person that you become. That is what your judgment

492
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:32,200
day will be. And I'm giving that as.

493
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 5: A harsh kind of warning, knock it off for your own.

494
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 12: Good and salvation, because it says in scripture you'll be

495
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:43,559
judged by the same manner which you judge. So it's

496
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,079
hurting me, it's not hurting us that much, right, we're

497
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:49,839
just used to it's annoying and stuff like that. But

498
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,559
the real tragedy of this is that's your judgment. It

499
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,480
comes back on you and you will be judged on

500
00:31:55,599 --> 00:32:00,240
judgment day. The exact same way. Well somebody Magic Christ

501
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,519
said was somebody some stranger told me you were you

502
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:06,599
were weren't Orthodox, So that's the same standard.

503
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 5: So depart from me. I never knew. Can you imagine

504
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,119
that horrible? It would be horrible. Yeah, So for your

505
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:15,240
own benefit, I love all of you, even the you.

506
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:19,559
Speaker 12: Know, uh, our enemies, like I don't wish you any

507
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:21,319
none of us, jade, none of us.

508
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 5: As Scripture says, you'll know them because they love one

509
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,440
another and they love their enemies. We're saying these things

510
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:30,279
because we want.

511
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,359
Speaker 12: The very best, even for our enemies, like I don't

512
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,680
want to see you perish and be judged that way,

513
00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:36,440
Like just for your own good knock it.

514
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 5: Off, you know what I mean?

515
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 13: Thank you for that. It was a good question. Thank

516
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,319
you for your comments at Father Deacon by the way,

517
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,279
I mean, how many times have we had Father Moses on,

518
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,000
Father don Whyford on, like multiple ro Corps priests, Father

519
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,319
Deacon Patrick, which I don't know if he's in ro Corps,

520
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:59,640
what jurisdiction he's in, but it doesn't matter, like they'll

521
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,920
just come out with some say By the way, that

522
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:06,079
was the letter was five years ago, so maybe that

523
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,279
was around the same time as he wrote the email

524
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,640
saying that he liked my work. So maybe five years

525
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,759
ago there was some level of questioning in the mind

526
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,440
of you know much Politan Nicholas, and it had to

527
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:22,039
do with the very same people online that Father Degan

528
00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:23,759
and Nice was talking about and the stuff that they

529
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:26,079
were spreading online, because at that time they were saying

530
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,559
that I don't actually go to any church, I'm not Orthodox.

531
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:31,799
I made up that I converted. The same people were

532
00:33:31,839 --> 00:33:35,000
saying the same stuff five years ago, right, And so

533
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,559
in response to that person, the original email was about

534
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,519
his work is good. And I mean, do you notice

535
00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:49,960
that none of these people even mentioned that email from.

536
00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 12: Now they won't And by the way, don't be naive

537
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,960
that while they're just missing information that they knew and

538
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,799
you should showed them. You could pull together an ecumenical council.

539
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,640
All the bishops is she like, you know what they'll say, well,

540
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,799
all those bishops are Soviet bishops.

541
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 5: Is a Surganism and it's a robber council.

542
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's Roman Catholics, it's people who are Latinizers in

543
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,000
the Orthodox Church. And it's literally like a group of

544
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,400
like ten people. It's not even like It's not some

545
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:21,320
like massive network. It's like a small network of people

546
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,639
who are allowed on Twitter. It's a bunch of nobody's anyway,

547
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:29,599
big time five dollars. I wanted to ask, since not

548
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,079
so Aridise said that Paul the Apostle was a postmodernist,

549
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,800
did she learn this at the College of the Apostles.

550
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,639
I thought that was one of the funniest statements, for sure,

551
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,760
that I've heard in a long time. But it would

552
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,599
fit well with misfit Patriots line of argumentation, because the

553
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:46,920
College of the Apostles is where they studied at school.

554
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,119
Right Hush tones ten dollars. Our Road Corporish in Saint

555
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,000
Louis had our Chbishop Gabriel present. We have a third

556
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:57,039
deacon now to complement our two priests. We just celebrated

557
00:34:57,039 --> 00:35:01,440
our fortieth anniversary. What's the favorite podcast that you did recently?

558
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:05,280
I mean, I enjoyed them all in different ways. The

559
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:09,320
eight hour whatever podcast the second day was really grueling.

560
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,440
It was difficult, but it was it was still fun.

561
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:14,199
But I think I had the most fun on the

562
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,719
Hodge Twins and Sam Tripoli when we were out there.

563
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,760
I enjoyed Rouslan's too. Elie w became a member. What's up? H.

564
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,800
Brosey five bucks? That guy had a Skutle's voice. Boot him.

565
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,840
He's some other first guy, H. Brosie five dollars. A

566
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,360
zoom caller prayer group is the most Protestant thing I've

567
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:36,719
ever heard. I mean, might as well just have church

568
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,039
on the zoom, right. Luca Belvizo became a member for

569
00:35:39,159 --> 00:35:42,519
three months. He says, Father, Deacon an I s or jay,

570
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:46,679
this is going brother Deacon, what would you say about

571
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,280
prayer with a Roman Catholic family member at a table

572
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,199
or dinner meeting.

573
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:04,079
Speaker 12: My recommendation, yeah, uh, try to lead the prayer, say oh,

574
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:06,679
I don't mind, Like, can I can I lead you?

575
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:08,599
Speaker 5: You know, can I start the prayer?

576
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 12: That's not praying with them, right, that's leading them in prayer.

577
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:21,039
If you can't do that, just uh, you know, don't pray.

578
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:25,559
Just you know, be respectful and quiet. But yeah, don't

579
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,039
because like you said, it's confusing to them. It makes

580
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:31,320
the think like we're one one body and believe in

581
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,239
the same thing. And you don't want to do that.

582
00:36:36,639 --> 00:36:39,440
You don't want to be united with the foreign body

583
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,920
like I said with the affair analogy. But you don't

584
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,079
want to confuse them and think that like, oh, fee,

585
00:36:48,119 --> 00:36:50,039
we're all just the same faith.

586
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:54,519
Speaker 13: And ye, Tony says, for five dollars, I'm the guy

587
00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:57,079
that wants to come up on ax. I have questions

588
00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:00,079
about epistemology. Well, you're in luck because you have a

589
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:04,440
professor of epistemology here, doctor, father, deacon, doctor Annonias. What's up?

590
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:04,599
Speaker 5: Man?

591
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 13: What's on your mind?

592
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:06,159
Speaker 5: Hey?

593
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:06,599
Speaker 13: How's it going?

594
00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:07,119
Speaker 5: Can you hear me?

595
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:07,559
Speaker 13: Yeah?

596
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 5: Hey, just quick question for you. I was watching one

597
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,679
of I was watching a video of you and a

598
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:14,559
gentleman named.

599
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 19: God Logic picking on viewers for an argument against prinitarianism.

600
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,440
And this gentleman said he you asked him do you

601
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:26,480
believe in the Bible? And he said, I believe the

602
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:28,599
parts that are true. And then you went on to

603
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,559
do like a line of questioning about like what his

604
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:33,800
epistemic principles are for determining what parts of the Bible

605
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,719
are true and what are true? And he kept appealing

606
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,800
to like self evident maxims like logic.

607
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 13: I think was a Pentecostal guy, etcetera.

608
00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 19: Yes, and he said, he said, eventually got frustrated with

609
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,360
you asking like basic questions and he said the problem

610
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,079
with you, Jay is and then you said, now it's personal,

611
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,920
And I was wondering what you could have what he

612
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,199
could have said to be more I guess in line

613
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,880
with like, is there anything he could have said that

614
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,039
would would have been justifying his position.

615
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,639
Speaker 13: Or is he just found Well I think that it

616
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,440
just shows that a very basic type of foundationalism that

617
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:14,639
most people want to appeal to, especially in the apologetic world,

618
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:19,159
it's really weak. And they think that if we call

619
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,639
that out, we're just trying to be argumentative or something

620
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:21,840
like that.

621
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 11: No.

622
00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 13: No, you understand that if you go into a debate

623
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,199
with a really smart atheist like a doctor Graham Api

624
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,159
or something like that, they're going to call you out

625
00:38:28,159 --> 00:38:29,599
on the same stuff that we're calling you out on.

626
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,599
And so that's why we have to have as father

627
00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:36,639
Deacon and I always says, it's not just having reasons

628
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,159
for your beliefs, whether it's foundational principles or for God's existence,

629
00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:44,239
it's good reasons for those beliefs. And ninety nine point

630
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,719
nine percent of the time when people try to defend

631
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,199
their quote self evident axioms or whatever it is, they

632
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,400
have really bad reasons for doing so. And if your

633
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,719
whole worldview is built on what supposedly is a bunch

634
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,880
of quote self evident axioms and principles and the docsastic

635
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,039
basicality and all this kind of stuff, and the reason

636
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:10,039
that we're supposed to accept that is like just because

637
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:14,320
it's obvious or it's self referencing, or I don't see

638
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,960
any other way to do it, Like that's not a

639
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:17,519
good reason.

640
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 19: Well, I guess my question is if I were to

641
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,719
be in his shoes and I were to ask you,

642
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,079
and you would ask me the same questions, and I

643
00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:25,000
was trying to be good faith, would it be fair

644
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:27,440
for we're going to say something like I presupposed the

645
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,840
laws of logic. I presupposed that stuff, and it's not justified.

646
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,480
It doesn't therefore my position is not justified or not justifiable.

647
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:37,360
What would you say, Like if I just said to you,

648
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,719
like if you asked me, why what do you use?

649
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,840
What's your episode of principle for believing in the laws

650
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,920
of logic? And I responded to you saying, I just

651
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,880
presuppose that it's that that is true?

652
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 5: It gets in exactly into the uh A Grip's trilemma.

653
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:01,480
It was the laws of logic. Suppose it was some

654
00:40:01,639 --> 00:40:07,039
other belief, right, you have three options. Either those beliefs

655
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:08,079
aren't justified.

656
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 12: This is what Agrippa, who's a famous philosopher from the

657
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,800
Parian school, Okay, what just is I don't.

658
00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 5: I don't have Okay, so then they're not justified.

659
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 12: Number two, it just goes on for an infinite regressive justifications,

660
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:36,039
in which case, interesting enough, the principle of infinitism that well,

661
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:40,440
if you have an infamous that itself is not infantism,

662
00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:44,400
it's it's foundation because that's your foundation of principle. Or

663
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,199
it's a circle, well it's you know, I don't need

664
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:50,760
to justify it, because that is the.

665
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 8: Justification for.

666
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,559
Speaker 12: So replace put any belief in there. Suppose it's I

667
00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:03,119
don't know about the economy or something. Would you accept

668
00:41:03,159 --> 00:41:05,039
that and be like, well, that's just I don't need

669
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,920
to justify my first principle of economics because it just is.

670
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 5: During a Gripa's.

671
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 12: Trilemma, so why should I allow when it comes to logic,

672
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,599
it's like, yeah, just because in economics are certain necessary conditions,

673
00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:21,360
does that mean it's a first principle that doesn't need

674
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,199
to be justified?

675
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 5: You allow it to go, well, it's just justified.

676
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 12: By an infinite other reasons that you never get to

677
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:28,480
the bottom of. Or I just come back full circle.

678
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:30,440
Would you ever let somebody get away with that on

679
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:31,159
anything else?

680
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 5: So?

681
00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 12: Why, yes, we all accept logic and logic is necessary.

682
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,559
We accept a lot of things that are true and necessary,

683
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:42,800
but we don't give we don't let other people get

684
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,119
away with that with other topics and beliefs.

685
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:49,679
Speaker 5: Does why is logic get a special what's so special

686
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,480
about that one that? Do you see? It's it's special pleading.

687
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,079
You have to do it all for this but not

688
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,519
for my position? Why?

689
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 12: Because if you did it for my position and I

690
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:02,960
lose my position, well you're being disingenuous.

691
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 19: Well, could you therefore just say something like like in

692
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,000
the economics debate, could you really just apply something like

693
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960
I can't I can't justify the use of logic, conduction

694
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:14,519
or any moral claims without presupposing like the Christian gut.

695
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 12: Sorry I said it again, Like actually, maybe it's economics,

696
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:25,840
but maybe it's like I don't know biology or something

697
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:26,079
like that.

698
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, Yeah, that's my question.

699
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 19: I guess it's like, how would you in good faith,

700
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,800
like knowing that you don't have any justification epistemically, like

701
00:42:34,039 --> 00:42:35,679
just wouldn't you just have to admit that you don't

702
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:36,679
have any justification for it?

703
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 12: But then yeah, maybe they just like I don't know,

704
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,559
they probably to be honest, they probably don't care. As

705
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:44,960
long as you get this kind of pragmatics, well I

706
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,079
can get the job done and go to science school

707
00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:52,159
without right. Isn't this kind of what's going on with

708
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,960
these people? It's like they ultimately don't care.

709
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,159
Speaker 19: I don't think anybody thinks of I think ninety six

710
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:00,679
percent of people don't think about like with their episodic

711
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:01,480
principles are or.

712
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 5: Maybe they don't. Yeah, maybe they don't think about it.

713
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:08,199
Speaker 19: Yeah, I guess those are my main questions. But yeah,

714
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:11,000
I appreciate the U the dialogue with it.

715
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,039
Speaker 13: Thanks man. I'm laughing because there's a my leg is

716
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:21,599
sliding on the metal bar and it sounds like a fart,

717
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:31,280
and the whole chat is just talking about farts. So no, no,

718
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,079
it's just I was having a hard time not laughing

719
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:36,719
because the chat was going crazy. All Right, we got

720
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,000
a bunch of people in here. Now I got to

721
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:40,519
figure out who was next in line. Tristana, are you

722
00:43:41,039 --> 00:43:43,639
I see two. I see two haggards in the chat,

723
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:47,639
which is kind of an omen so that's usually a

724
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,920
bad sign. I don't know it's yes, except it's like

725
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,880
it's like two, it's two mentally retarded birds flying into

726
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,920
the chat at the same time. It's like, I'm just kidding.

727
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,679
I love both of the haggards. Chase his thumbing down.

728
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,920
He doesn't agree. That's okay. I believe in libertarian freedom,

729
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,000
you're free to believe and do anything at all. Total nap.

730
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,079
I'll never I'll never aggress you.

731
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 5: What Jay said is axiomatic, so you can't.

732
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 13: It's actually self evident, and you can't argue. Basically, all

733
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:21,840
my positions are self evident.

734
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,159
Speaker 5: I've decided, Hey, can you hear me?

735
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:27,119
Speaker 13: Hey, what's up?

736
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:28,159
Speaker 5: Hey?

737
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 10: Uh So I'm a Lutheran and added question about orthodoxy.

738
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 13: A Lutheran or a Lutheran.

739
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 10: Lutheran Lutheran f so, yeah, So my question is what

740
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,440
I noticed in Eastern Orthodoxy. So there's this concept of

741
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,039
I hope I pronounce it correctly.

742
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:53,159
Speaker 13: Economya, right, that's what orthodoxy, not orthodoxy. My god, I'm

743
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,480
just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yah, economy, go ahead, Yes, okay,

744
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,760
so by the way, I before you move on real quick,

745
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,800
I want to say I do believe not in brute facts,

746
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,719
but in brute farts. That's what was going on.

747
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 20: Go ahead, okay, So I get the concept of like

748
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,760
receiving someone who was baptized outside of the Orthodox Church

749
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,960
into the Orthodox Church without a rebaptism under economia.

750
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,199
Speaker 10: I probably pronounced it wrongly again, my bad.

751
00:45:26,639 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 5: But my question is now.

752
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 10: I think you're you're part of the road car, right,

753
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:36,639
and I think the ro cart it's like sometimes takes

754
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,119
up RCC priests without a reordination.

755
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:44,199
Speaker 13: Yeah, they don't have to vest. Their investing is not

756
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,719
necessarily they receive them by investing.

757
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:53,079
Speaker 10: Yet Yeah, but then some Greeks say, no, that's not

758
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,559
valid because he needs to be reordained, because the Romans

759
00:45:56,599 --> 00:45:57,760
are heretics and so on.

760
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,079
Speaker 13: Right, Well, the Russian Church agrees that their heretics. It's

761
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:03,880
just that, if you read the Canons of Saint Basil,

762
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,360
he's very flexible. There's always been flexibility about how independent

763
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,039
how jurisdictions receive these these different people in different situations.

764
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:15,960
So it's usually a case by case basis. But also

765
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:19,960
we believe that in equantumia that the grace of God

766
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,719
and the grace of the Church makes up for whatever's lacking.

767
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,000
So it's a very Roman Catholic type of attitude. I'm

768
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:27,840
not talking about you, but like it just in general,

769
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,960
like in Quas Primus, which is or may excuse me

770
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:35,400
quote Primus the Bowl of Pius the fifth at the

771
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,400
Council of Trent. It's extremely legalistic the way that if

772
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,119
anything goes wrong in the mass, basically it's an automatic

773
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,760
mortal sin and it might invalidate the entire mass. Right,

774
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,159
so if like you said the wrong words, or if

775
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,159
you coughed in the middle of the words of consecration

776
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,000
or something like that, it's like it invalidates the whole thing.

777
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:55,840
So we don't have it. No, that's that's in the Tridentine,

778
00:46:56,119 --> 00:46:59,519
you know, quote premium text. We don't have that legalistic

779
00:46:59,519 --> 00:47:01,719
attitude in the in the Orthodox Church as far as

780
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,760
I can tell. And so like the Serbian Church for

781
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,960
a long time received people who were sprinkled without corrective

782
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,239
quote unquote baptism or whatever, and we just think that,

783
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,480
I mean, it's just you have to argue that the

784
00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:18,400
grace of God makes up for that. And by the way,

785
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,840
most Roman Catholics do conditional baptisms.

786
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 21: Too, So.

787
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 10: Okay, so like the grace of God prevails, and then

788
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,119
if like that the priest has taken up into the

789
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,320
Orthodox Church, like through the grace of God, that then

790
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,840
supplies him even if his ordination was invalid like the

791
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,719
necessary ontological Traine.

792
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,519
Speaker 13: So that's why I don't order. That's why I don't

793
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:42,519
like the term valid or invalid, because it's ambiguous, because

794
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:46,119
it's also a Roman Catholic mindset about how canon law works.

795
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,079
And even if even if you go back to Augustine

796
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:51,880
when he talks about baptism and sacraments outside the church,

797
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,880
what's funny is that he actually has a pretty consistent

798
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,639
strict position that even the Roman Catholics no longer hold to.

799
00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:04,480
Like Augustine thinking that if you are baptized outside the church,

800
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,440
even if it's quote valid, and even if it's efficacious

801
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,199
in terms of grace, he also believes that you don't

802
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,559
get that grace until you remove the impediment to the grace.

803
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:18,400
In this case, it would be say heresy. So if

804
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,199
you're baptized in heretical church, Augustina would say that it's

805
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:25,000
quote valid, it was done correctly, and according to the

806
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:30,119
rules and the proper form or whatever. But the fact

807
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:32,920
that you have the sin of heresy is what's preventing

808
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,440
you from receiving the grace of the sacrament. So only

809
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:38,400
when you come back to the unity of the Catholic Church,

810
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,719
Augustine says, is that impediment removed, and do you then

811
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,400
receive the grace. So I think that is actually helpful

812
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,880
for understanding the Patristic mind on this, because when he's

813
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,119
writing against the Donatus is when he formulated a lot

814
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:54,320
of these principles. So I actually think that some of

815
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,079
these points that Augustine make we as Orthodox could even

816
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,679
appropriate because the modern Romancalolic Church doesn't really even hold

817
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,320
to the Augustinian view. They would actually just say, well, yeah,

818
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,400
it doesn't really matter. It's everything. Everything's kind of it's

819
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,400
all good. It's all good. I mean, but I mean

820
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,960
they're at the point where they will the novs Orto

821
00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:15,800
is baptizing people in the land to see in the air.

822
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,880
They're using all kinds of weird terminology that isn't even

823
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,760
a baptism at all. So I just think that the

824
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,800
ancient canons, whether it's the Canons of Saint Basil or

825
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,159
the Canons of the sex Ecumenical Council, which talk about

826
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,519
in some cases, if it's a Unitarian baptism, it's not

827
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:34,159
accepted at all, and so there was never a baptism.

828
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:37,800
In other cases, if it was baptisms done by Donatists

829
00:49:38,039 --> 00:49:43,760
or by Monophosites, it can be accepted, and then the church,

830
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:45,800
the people can be received in the ord dark Church

831
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,800
in different ways, so it doesn't really matter.

832
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 10: Okay, So this is so I heard like for example,

833
00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:57,480
like Aryan baptisms sometimes are accepted, while like a Mormon

834
00:49:57,559 --> 00:50:01,360
baptism would be unacceptable because like their concept of what

835
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,719
Fodderson and Holy Spirit means is completely different even further

836
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,480
so than what the an Arian would think, and an

837
00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:11,320
Aran would still intend to baptize into what he thinks.

838
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,159
Speaker 13: To cast the whole idea of intending to baptize the

839
00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:18,559
way the Church baptizes itself as kind of fuzzy, because

840
00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:21,800
that's the that's the basis of the Roman Catholics used

841
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,360
to say that atheists and Muslims can baptize too, which

842
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,800
we don't believe that, and I don't think I don't

843
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,920
think Augustina would say that, even though Augustin thinks that

844
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:34,119
in you know, trinitarian sects, you could still have a

845
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,639
quote valid baptism. I maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you could

846
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,599
argue this somewhere and Augustin, I'm just not aware of it.

847
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,559
But as far as I'm aware, it's a later question

848
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:46,599
that comes up in Denzinger around the eight hundreds to

849
00:50:46,639 --> 00:50:49,039
the nine hundreds, somewhere in the Middle Ages early Middle Ages,

850
00:50:49,159 --> 00:50:52,239
where the question is asked, can a pagan or a

851
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:57,559
heretic or a Muslim baptized in extremists and the Roman

852
00:50:57,599 --> 00:50:59,800
se says yes, And for us we think that just

853
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:00,559
makes no sense.

854
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 10: Is the great commission that was given to the believers

855
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,440
of Jesus not to the pagans? Right?

856
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:06,679
Speaker 5: Right?

857
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 13: So yeah, how can he give what he doesn't have? Right,

858
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:11,199
it's kind of the basic right.

859
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,679
Speaker 5: But could so? But any baptized Christian can baptize.

860
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,119
Speaker 13: Or I don't actually know about that in the Orthodox

861
00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:23,079
can law father, deacon? Could you speak to that? Is

862
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:26,480
it only clergy? Technically? I think it's only clergy, right,

863
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:28,719
like a priest a deacon can't baptize.

864
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 5: Kenny, No, I don't know if there was any like.

865
00:51:34,639 --> 00:51:39,159
Speaker 12: An extreme situation like you said whether Bishop could authorize

866
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,639
somebody to do the off to look at it.

867
00:51:41,679 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 5: I actually don't know the answer.

868
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 13: But hey, man, great questions. I appreciate those questions there, Julian.

869
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,440
Let's see, we've got a lot of people in here. Johnson,

870
00:51:55,559 --> 00:52:03,559
Steve do got a last name as his first name. Hi, beg,

871
00:52:03,559 --> 00:52:05,599
could you mand me a couple of double shots? Thank

872
00:52:05,639 --> 00:52:10,679
you very much, appreciate it. Hey, what's up man? You

873
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:13,239
want to I'm mute, Hey.

874
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 5: Jay, do you have a j I'll I'll come back on.

875
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 13: Go ahead, Johnson, I'm sorry, go ahead.

876
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 21: So do you have any inflammation on Hungary over Central

877
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:35,639
Europe's political future or any books that you get recommend?

878
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 13: Honestly, I don't. I tell you who you could follow

879
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,320
that does know a lot about that is a good

880
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,960
buddy of ours, Cameron McGregor. He's Colonel Douglas McGregor's son,

881
00:52:46,679 --> 00:52:49,639
and he's been to Hungary. He's been to Hungary several

882
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,280
times and as well as like Poland and all those

883
00:52:54,039 --> 00:52:56,119
European countries, and he meets with a lot of the

884
00:52:56,199 --> 00:52:59,920
right wing parties over there. So look up Cameron McGregor's channel,

885
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,079
and I think his channel is called men in the City.

886
00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:06,840
By the way, again, it's like all of the like,

887
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,480
all these ro Corps priests and even non ro Corps priests,

888
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:13,760
I've been on my channel, so it's like, uh, now,

889
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,559
I think I think every priest has been on my

890
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:18,039
channel's real Corps. Maybe there's a couple exceptions. By the way,

891
00:53:18,039 --> 00:53:21,039
I'm about to do a podcast I think with Father Emmanuel,

892
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:28,360
the Greek guy, what's his name, he's getting a popular Lemmelson,

893
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,559
the Greek guy that's podcast is getting popular. He reached

894
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:35,599
out to do it a podcast today, So oh, I

895
00:53:35,639 --> 00:53:38,639
guess it's all made up. They're all crisis actors. Known

896
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:42,079
of these priests are real fourteen G. What's up man?

897
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,039
Cameron's channel is let's see, I think he called it

898
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:56,159
men in the City, but he he knows the lay

899
00:53:56,199 --> 00:54:05,280
of the land when it comes to hungry and it's

900
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:09,119
geopolitical future here it is right here. This is Cameron's channel,

901
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,079
So I would say go check him out. Neo masculinity,

902
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:14,639
Cameron McGregor, what's up man? I'm fourteen G.

903
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 5: Hey Ja, thanks for what you do.

904
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 22: Always enjoy the show. I'm recently baptized Orthodox about a

905
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,760
year ago, and I've been getting more involved in my

906
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,519
church and looking for ways that I can get back

907
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:29,480
to the community. And I've been a long term bitcoin

908
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:31,800
investor and it's really changed my life, and I've been

909
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,599
trying to do more bitcoin education in the community with

910
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:38,800
some success. What I tried was to donate about three

911
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,199
thousand dollars worth of bitcoin so that the church could

912
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:42,920
now accept bitcoin and teach them.

913
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:43,199
Speaker 5: How to do that.

914
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 22: But I've received a lot of kind of reluctance or confusion,

915
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,760
and I really see bitcoin as the Christian ideal of money,

916
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,519
and I type time reference, sorry, I.

917
00:54:53,559 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 13: Said, I agree. We did an interview with Jordan Bush.

918
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,920
He's an evangelical guy who co wrote that book with

919
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,800
Julia who's corp on Thank God for Bitcoin, which is

920
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,440
arguing that it's the most ethical Christian money exactly.

921
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:11,119
Speaker 22: So I guess I'll skip my long diatribe and ask

922
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,519
what would you suggest as some biblical arguments to maybe

923
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:18,320
convince people or explain to them how bitcoin aligns with

924
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,159
scripture and is a good thing and could create a

925
00:55:20,199 --> 00:55:22,280
lot of wealth in the community, and maybe some of

926
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,360
the clergy members on the call good answer.

927
00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:26,559
Speaker 13: To yeah, I think father, you can have to go.

928
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,199
But so if you guys look up this interview right here.

929
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,639
This is intended to be a very simple, thirty seven

930
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:37,639
minute introduction that Jordan and I did on the fourth

931
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:43,639
hour of Lord Voldemort's Show. And they wrote a really concise,

932
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,480
easy to read It's about one hundred page book called

933
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:53,400
Thank God for Bitcoin, and it basically just argues right here,

934
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,719
if you get their book, it just argues that, like

935
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,960
he was saying, it's really the most ethical money. I mean,

936
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,239
it really avoids most of the traps of money as

937
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,039
we think of money in terms of yacht currency and

938
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:13,360
all that. And it's a really readable book. It kind

939
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,039
of like it's kind of like a much more accessible

940
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:23,039
version of Ceiphidine's book, but like also with Christian principles

941
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:25,880
in it. So I would say everybody should get this book.

942
00:56:29,039 --> 00:56:31,960
Get it, yeah, yeah, And and most of the chapters

943
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,880
are organized like around basic biblical principles, like you know,

944
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,639
what does Proverbs teach about money and economics? And then

945
00:56:38,679 --> 00:56:41,119
what does Jesus saying the Gospels it's relevant for money

946
00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:44,199
and economics, that kind of stuff. So this is the

947
00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:46,599
book I would recommend for Christians who are new to

948
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:49,400
this principle. And thank you very much fourteen G. I

949
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,920
appreciate that and definitely keep spreading the orange pill for sure.

950
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,599
Let's see, we got a lot of people online here reformed.

951
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:06,599
What's the man? Also, by the way, before we move

952
00:57:06,679 --> 00:57:09,519
on here, if you guys do want to get started

953
00:57:09,559 --> 00:57:14,199
with bitcoin, I would recommend a very simple bitcoin only company,

954
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,000
swan Bitcoin. Right there. That's my referral code. You can

955
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,159
link right there and going over there to swan bitcoin

956
00:57:24,199 --> 00:57:27,920
and get started there. Also watch the if you're new

957
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:29,960
to it and you have questions, and watch the interview

958
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,599
that we do with Jordan Bush here. It's a good

959
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:35,599
interest and it's funny because I'm not talking about that

960
00:57:35,679 --> 00:57:38,599
guy that just called in. But like once, bitcoin doesn't

961
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:40,320
new all time hide and it's in the news where

962
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,440
that's when it suddenly everybody starts talking about bitcoin. And

963
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,000
then they come over here and they're like, what is

964
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:46,920
this bioco? How do I get storted in bitcoin? As

965
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,920
that dude, I've been telling you since twenty seventeen to

966
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:50,679
stag bitcoin? What are you talking about? You should have

967
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,280
been listening when it wasn't high, That's what that's the point, man, Well,

968
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,199
it's a new ultime high. I go so buy it. Well,

969
00:57:57,719 --> 00:58:00,679
I mean in ten years, yeah, going to be okay,

970
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,400
because it's going to keep going up. In five years

971
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,960
we'll have what ten ax will have a million dollar bitcoin?

972
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 5: Hey Jay, Hey, what's up?

973
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

974
00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:14,119
Speaker 23: Me and my wife started attending liturgy three weeks ago

975
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,880
and we're looking from the inquirers.

976
00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:18,559
Speaker 5: Uh. Former Presbyterian.

977
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 23: I had a meeting with my former pastor about the canon,

978
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,760
and I had questions, and when I asked him about

979
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,159
soul scriptura, his only answer was like, God is canon

980
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:31,760
and that's how we know. Like, that's how they have

981
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,159
the sixty six foot cannon.

982
00:58:34,719 --> 00:58:35,079
Speaker 21: By the way.

983
00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 13: By the way, this is very similar to the Roman

984
00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:38,800
cala guy they called in the other day. Just just

985
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,519
one point, because I want everybody to notice the same

986
00:58:41,679 --> 00:58:45,039
line of argumentation that doesn't actually work. So notice the

987
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:48,719
Roman Catholic guy when he was arguing a couple of

988
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,199
days ago when I was on the on the road,

989
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,079
he said, well, the way we saw this issue with

990
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:58,079
going through the papal documents and figuring out which things

991
00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:02,920
are you know, acceptable or fallible, infallible or fallible, is

992
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:08,280
you just appeal to this quote the chair. And it's

993
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,000
the same with a Protestant when you say, how do

994
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:14,119
we know what the right list of the canon is? God?

995
00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:18,280
Is the canon? Just saying that doesn't actually do any

996
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,559
of the actual work to tell you on the grounds

997
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:24,239
book by book or in the case of the papacy,

998
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,559
sentenced by sentence, incyclical by encyclical, which aspects are infallible

999
00:59:28,599 --> 00:59:30,679
which ones aren't. So you see how useless it is

1000
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:36,719
to just say, oh, the papacy, Oh God does it. Yeah.

1001
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,239
Speaker 23: What's kind of funny is when we pray it. At

1002
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,039
the end of the meeting, during his prayer, he said, Lord,

1003
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,920
I know that no one went wrong with the sixties

1004
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,360
six but Cannon. So he's like, he's like chicken. While

1005
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:50,960
he was praying, I kind of feel bad for him,

1006
00:59:51,039 --> 00:59:53,360
But he asked a follow this question that was kind

1007
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,920
of interesting, okay, was how do you have epistemic certitude

1008
00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:01,360
about the e communical councils? Like what authority do we

1009
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:04,159
appeal to to know that the councils are true?

1010
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:07,559
Speaker 13: Right? So a lot of times this comes up and

1011
01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:10,920
what people are missing and what he's missing. And actually

1012
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,519
blame a lot of Roman Catholic apologists for this point

1013
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:20,199
is that they're confusing individual existential certitude, the means that

1014
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:25,159
we use to get that certitude, and then thirdly, normative authority.

1015
01:00:25,199 --> 01:00:28,519
They're all three different things. They're related, but they're three

1016
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:30,880
different things. So in the first case, when it comes

1017
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,039
to existential certitude, we would agree with a Roman Catholic

1018
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:36,599
and a Protestant that at the end of the day,

1019
01:00:37,159 --> 01:00:39,400
the highest authority that we're all going to appeal to

1020
01:00:39,559 --> 01:00:41,840
and rely on is the work of the Holy Spirit.

1021
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,000
There's no other thing that you can appeal to or

1022
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,960
rest on. Where we differ though, is first of all,

1023
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:51,079
the means between a Protestant and us. Right, a Protestant

1024
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:53,679
is going to think ultimately it's them and the scriptures

1025
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:54,960
right at the end of the day. I know that

1026
01:00:55,239 --> 01:00:58,519
Protestants believe in confessions and they have their Westminster Confession,

1027
01:00:58,559 --> 01:01:00,360
and I'm just saying that at at the end of

1028
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,559
the day, the final authority is the Holy Spirit enlightening

1029
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:07,199
the believer through the textas scripture. For the Roman Catholic,

1030
01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:10,079
at the end of the day, it's the Holy Spirit

1031
01:01:10,639 --> 01:01:14,440
enlightening the believer to understand the magistarium teaching in Rome. Right,

1032
01:01:14,639 --> 01:01:18,079
That's literally what their position is. And for us as Orthodox,

1033
01:01:18,199 --> 01:01:19,480
we agree that at the end of the day, it's

1034
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,719
the Holy Spirit. But we differ from those two by

1035
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,239
the means that he uses. We think it's the councils.

1036
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,719
We think it's the teaching of scripture, it's the experience

1037
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,719
of the liturgy. All of those things are part of

1038
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,679
the sources of where I derive my belief systems from

1039
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:38,800
or my system from. So lastly, though, the key element

1040
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,360
of departure is not so much about certitude. It's rather

1041
01:01:43,559 --> 01:01:47,320
about authority and whether Jesus gave any body of people

1042
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:51,360
normative authority, that is an aught that you ought or

1043
01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:57,239
must believe these things, these doctrines, this canon, etc. And

1044
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,280
it's just like the Constitution and the Supreme Court. Right,

1045
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,840
you have a document, but there's not just a document

1046
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,920
that everybody gets mailed out to them when they become

1047
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:08,880
American citizens or when they're born. You also have a

1048
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,880
body of people who have normative authority in our country

1049
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,639
at least to bind people to that interpretation. And so

1050
01:02:14,719 --> 01:02:16,480
when we look at the Comes of Nicia, for example,

1051
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,360
they are binding people to that interpretation of the deed

1052
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,800
of Christ, and they're saying if you follow areas, you're

1053
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,440
excommunicated and you are outside the church, So we bind

1054
01:02:28,519 --> 01:02:31,199
everyone to this interpretation of what it means to be

1055
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:36,079
homo usius. You see, that's normative authority, that whether there

1056
01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:38,840
is any body to bind anybody to an interpretation. And

1057
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:43,360
in fact, classical Reformation theology is actually built on the

1058
01:02:43,559 --> 01:02:48,519
denial of that principle, because the Reformers taught pretty much

1059
01:02:48,519 --> 01:02:50,239
across the board. If there's one that doesn't, I'm not

1060
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:51,840
aware of it. There could be, I'm just not aware.

1061
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,280
But most of the known reformers teach the right of

1062
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,719
private interpretation and the freedom of conscience, and that no one,

1063
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,239
no pope, counselor bishop, can bind any individual in terms

1064
01:03:03,239 --> 01:03:05,480
of their conscience. And that is not the teaching of

1065
01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:08,360
the Orthodox Church in terms of normative authority, nor is

1066
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,559
it the Roman Catholic churches teaching about normative authority. So

1067
01:03:10,639 --> 01:03:14,679
both Rome and Orthodoxy admit the existence of normative authority,

1068
01:03:15,159 --> 01:03:19,079
and it's rather the Protestant position than it is severely lacking.

1069
01:03:19,199 --> 01:03:21,000
Of course, I think the Roman Catholic position's crazy, but

1070
01:03:21,719 --> 01:03:24,440
they at least have the notion of normative authority. Whether

1071
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,079
it's consistent or not a different question. But in Protestantism

1072
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:31,519
it's explicitly no normative authority that can bind a person's

1073
01:03:32,159 --> 01:03:33,719
conscience to an interpretation.

1074
01:03:35,079 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 23: It was kind of funny if they're like threatening to

1075
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,199
excommunicators because we're becoming Orthodox, and I kind of laughed

1076
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:44,079
because I'm like, that doesn't really mean anything, because we

1077
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,280
Presbyterian churches on the same street.

1078
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 5: Like I'm not joking, there's a.

1079
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 23: PA, a PC USA, and a OPC on the same street.

1080
01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 5: Within them, all of each other just.

1081
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 13: App just appeal to the Reformation teaching of the right

1082
01:03:56,039 --> 01:03:59,639
of private interpretation of freedom of conscience. So because I

1083
01:03:59,719 --> 01:04:01,440
had the exact same thing come up to me when

1084
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,119
I was leaving Calvinism, my Protestant Calvinist church when I

1085
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,320
was like nineteen or twenty and I was beginning to

1086
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,920
doubt it and looking into Catholicism, and uh, my Protestant

1087
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:18,599
pastor was like, our presbytery will excommunicate you. And I'm like, well, okay, so,

1088
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:21,760
like I mean, it's it's Protestantism. Can I just start

1089
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,119
my own presbytery? You know what I mean?

1090
01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 5: Is it like a church LARPing?

1091
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,119
Speaker 23: When they threatened to excommunicate, like we promise we're gonna

1092
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:29,679
ex communica.

1093
01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 13: Well, actually, it's funny because what my my pastor would

1094
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,039
do and that the elder is the well, there's only

1095
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:37,079
one elder in our in our is a mission church.

1096
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:44,599
But they would send a male certified letter. So you

1097
01:04:44,679 --> 01:04:46,199
go to the Post Office and you get it CERTI

1098
01:04:46,199 --> 01:04:47,599
of I'm not joking. He would do that. He thought

1099
01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:49,599
that made it like more official if he went to.

1100
01:04:49,639 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 2: The Post Office approval.

1101
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,559
Speaker 13: No, I'd had post office approval. It's a certified letter

1102
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:55,639
of the book. I'm serious of the US Post Office.

1103
01:04:55,719 --> 01:04:57,679
I'm not joking. He would do that, which we all

1104
01:04:57,679 --> 01:04:59,599
thought that was actually pretty funny though, I mean he

1105
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:01,440
didn't think give us funny. He wasn't doing it to

1106
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,000
be ironic. Like he thought like, no, this will actually

1107
01:05:04,119 --> 01:05:08,280
ratify like a government authority on this document, and that

1108
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,800
that like contributes to the church authority.

1109
01:05:12,679 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 5: Well, that's crazy. I got one last quick question here.

1110
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 23: Me and my wife were in deliverance ministry, you know,

1111
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,320
like three or four years ago, and what's a good

1112
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,360
refutation of that whole demon slang movement.

1113
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,679
Speaker 13: I mean, we just did a pretty lengthy reputation of

1114
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,960
the whole Pentecostal charismatic stuff. I would say, go back

1115
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,079
and watch that stream.

1116
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:36,159
Speaker 2: That I did.

1117
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:38,239
Speaker 13: It was pretty long, but we went through all the

1118
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,159
charismatic stuff. I mean, I think the Orthodox Church would

1119
01:05:41,159 --> 01:05:43,519
agree that there are exorcisms. I don't know that that

1120
01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:46,639
necessarily means that we're not affirming all this kind of crazy,

1121
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:53,119
wacky Protestant stuff, but I would say that livestream would

1122
01:05:53,119 --> 01:05:59,400
be probably the best debunking of all the charismatic nonsense. Zelmoxist,

1123
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:05,440
what's up. Yeah, it's not papal authority, it's postal authority. Correct.

1124
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:07,760
I'm not kidding by the way that those I thought

1125
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,360
that was funny, but my Protestant pastor's mind that like

1126
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,519
added to the status of the officialdom because he did

1127
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:17,559
a certified three dollar certified mail at the post office.

1128
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:18,480
What's up man?

1129
01:06:20,039 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 8: Hey, Jay, I'm an Orthodox Christian and I just wanted

1130
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:27,039
to make a quick comment on all the dialogue coming

1131
01:06:27,079 --> 01:06:29,920
from this, like Ubipetro's Voice of Reason debate on the

1132
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:35,039
papacy and how Roman Catholics tend to argue for their

1133
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:38,880
version of the papacy in the first millennium. So I

1134
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:41,719
am a lawyer by trade. I'm a litigator. I've been

1135
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:46,480
litigating for six seven years now, and whenever we analyze

1136
01:06:46,639 --> 01:06:49,480
it like a court opinion, like not every word in

1137
01:06:49,559 --> 01:06:55,440
that opinion is binding on people, right, so we make

1138
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,679
a distinction between like the dictum in an opinion and

1139
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,760
the holding of that opinion. Uh. And Catholics I noticed

1140
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,480
a little like stray remarks instead of or like the

1141
01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:10,440
meeting minutes in like one of the councils to try

1142
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,400
to prove their position. Yes, and they're like missing the

1143
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,360
whole point of a council to begin with, where they'll

1144
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,480
ignore the canons of that council and they'll go to

1145
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:21,679
like a quote from a papal legate.

1146
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,159
Speaker 13: Yeah, just legate said this. Therefore it's proof that the

1147
01:07:25,199 --> 01:07:28,320
Council of Ephicis teaches back in one people supremacy. It's like, no,

1148
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,000
that's just what that legate said.

1149
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, or like some flowery language in a letter, and

1150
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,000
it's like, okay, fine, but of course a papal legate

1151
01:07:36,159 --> 01:07:38,519
is going to talk up his own bishop. You know,

1152
01:07:38,639 --> 01:07:40,960
that's not binding. And then you have the canons that

1153
01:07:41,039 --> 01:07:42,039
are agreed upon by.

1154
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:46,159
Speaker 13: All the bishops, that right, and which is authority.

1155
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1156
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 8: Yeah. And that's another thing that I've noticed is this

1157
01:07:49,519 --> 01:07:52,639
inability to distinguish between different levels of authority that we

1158
01:07:52,719 --> 01:07:55,199
do have in litigation. Right, If I went to a

1159
01:07:55,280 --> 01:08:00,199
judge and presented an opinion of another local judge and

1160
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,760
my opponent comes as like a Supreme Court opinion, well

1161
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,920
it doesn't matter at all. Well my argument is because

1162
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,039
he has a higher authority than me. So, like I

1163
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:14,119
noticed Roman Catholics appealing to like the Council of Orange

1164
01:08:14,519 --> 01:08:19,760
for example, to say like, oh, synergism was not approved.

1165
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,319
It's a monarchist model that the early Church thought, Well,

1166
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:24,039
why do I care about that when I have the

1167
01:08:24,079 --> 01:08:25,359
six documentical Council.

1168
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 13: Yeah, that trumps the Council of Orange exactly. And isn't

1169
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,880
that funny too, because usually it's the Roman Canfolics using

1170
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,520
litigation models to try to show that there's different tiers

1171
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,760
of authority in magisterial documents, but they don't recognize the

1172
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:46,000
same principle when it comes to flowery language or statements

1173
01:08:46,039 --> 01:08:49,079
of various league gates in the Council which are subordinate

1174
01:08:49,199 --> 01:08:51,479
to the actual teachings and canons of the Council.

1175
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,079
Speaker 8: Yeah. I don't know how you feel about naming names,

1176
01:08:55,119 --> 01:08:56,359
but I will go ahead and do that.

1177
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 7: Eric.

1178
01:08:57,039 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 8: You Bara in particularly seems to be a huge purpet

1179
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:03,920
of this where he'll like grab a line from a

1180
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,239
letter here, He'll grabbed the statement of a papal legate there. Hey,

1181
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:10,479
but what about the canons that all of the bishops

1182
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,760
agreed on that reinforced the autocephaly of the churches.

1183
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 13: Well, in their mind, that doesn't matter, because whatever supports

1184
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:23,319
the papal position, which the papal, the papacy itself, is

1185
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:26,720
what picks out of the councils what's relevant from their perspective.

1186
01:09:27,039 --> 01:09:29,680
So it's a vicious circle. But no, I'm glad you

1187
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,279
mentioned Ibara doing that, because that's actually what Ubi has

1188
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:35,399
been When Ubi started his blog in twenty eighteen. That

1189
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,439
was some of the first stuff he started calling out

1190
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,680
about Atbara. Was it Barra's ignoring of the context and

1191
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:47,520
the differentiation between various people's opinions, flowery language and then

1192
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,319
picking and choosing quotes and reading back into them the

1193
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:52,039
isogesis of Vatican one.

1194
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, Anyway, I just wanted to point that out because

1195
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,319
it's my background, Like, that distinction seemed very clear to

1196
01:09:58,399 --> 01:10:00,279
me when I was looking at it. Oh, this is

1197
01:10:00,319 --> 01:10:03,880
a letter with flowery language. We have the literal administrative

1198
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:07,000
rules here within the canons. Yes, they're not on the

1199
01:10:07,079 --> 01:10:10,279
same level. Yet they're appealing to flowery language where I've

1200
01:10:10,359 --> 01:10:14,720
noticed people canna. They're maybe because of the way they're raised,

1201
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,159
they're the background or something. They don't see it that way,

1202
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:18,279
and maybe I have.

1203
01:10:18,399 --> 01:10:19,079
Speaker 10: A a No.

1204
01:10:19,239 --> 01:10:21,119
Speaker 13: I think you're absolutely spot on. This is actually a

1205
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:25,520
really important perceptive point that many people don't know. And

1206
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,680
by the way, Tim Gordon, who also is you know,

1207
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,039
studying to get his law degree or has a law

1208
01:10:32,039 --> 01:10:33,119
of gogre, I don't member. I'm not trying to be

1209
01:10:35,039 --> 01:10:37,239
you know, defamatory to Tim. I don't remember if he

1210
01:10:37,279 --> 01:10:39,159
said he has his law degree or still studying it

1211
01:10:39,239 --> 01:10:42,359
or whatever, but like he oftentimes makes these same points too,

1212
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:46,439
about analogies to law and how law works, and like

1213
01:10:47,239 --> 01:10:49,479
it's just so weird that like the Roman Callolic system

1214
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,000
is just so fraught with you know, on the one hand,

1215
01:10:53,079 --> 01:11:00,520
we want every like place for proper legal procedure, except

1216
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:05,199
when it comes to proving the papacy or magisterial statements.

1217
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,199
At that point, throw all that out and it's literally

1218
01:11:08,359 --> 01:11:11,119
just like a free for all. Yeah.

1219
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 8: Absolutely, But anyway, I just wanted to point that out,

1220
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,960
and I think if you follow the arguments, and you're

1221
01:11:17,039 --> 01:11:21,439
consistent and your methodology, it will inevitably lead to orthodoxy.

1222
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,960
I mean I've been following you for the last like

1223
01:11:24,279 --> 01:11:29,479
fifteen to sixteen months now. Oh, and I have converted.

1224
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,520
I've been going to liturgy for the last six months.

1225
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,119
It just became a catechumen. So I think just following

1226
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:38,560
the arguments, you know, actually doing the readings instead of

1227
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,159
just watching a video. I think one of the most

1228
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:43,079
helpful things from you, j is that whenever you make

1229
01:11:43,239 --> 01:11:46,000
a claim or an argument, you'll be like, hey, I

1230
01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:48,000
read it in this book right here. You can go

1231
01:11:48,079 --> 01:11:49,439
read it if you want if you don't believe it.

1232
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:51,199
And you know what I did right when, and I

1233
01:11:51,319 --> 01:11:53,319
bought all the books that you reference, Jay, and I

1234
01:11:53,399 --> 01:11:56,920
read them all. And guess what they say, what you say, they.

1235
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,359
Speaker 13: Say, thank you amazing. Zalmoxis is the hero of the

1236
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,359
day because he actually did the work. He did his homework.

1237
01:12:04,079 --> 01:12:06,000
You know how many how few people actually do the home.

1238
01:12:06,079 --> 01:12:08,279
It's like some people are just super lazy, like they're

1239
01:12:08,359 --> 01:12:10,159
not actually going to do any of the work, but

1240
01:12:10,319 --> 01:12:12,560
they want to yap on the internet and sell this nonsense,

1241
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,119
but they're not actually going to go do all the work.

1242
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:17,159
Speaker 8: An exhibit A is not so erudite. I think that's

1243
01:12:17,319 --> 01:12:20,479
a particular example of someone who has like is kind

1244
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,640
of LARPing as you know, I've done the readings, but

1245
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:25,600
like maybe she's watched a podcast or watched a video.

1246
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,279
But when you actually go through like the work and

1247
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,199
underline and you know, redline everything that you're reading, it's

1248
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:34,359
a different level of confidence.

1249
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 13: So absolutely, well, hey, really really great points there is

1250
01:12:37,039 --> 01:12:39,600
zelm ma Oxis. Appreciate that. God blessed elm ma oxis.

1251
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,279
And hey, some of the best coolest guys in our

1252
01:12:43,319 --> 01:12:49,640
sphere are guys that study law. Shout out to all

1253
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:51,960
of our law bros out there, you know who you are.

1254
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,359
They usually come with like some of the most helpful

1255
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:04,840
and useful insights because again, churches are governed by church law.

1256
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,039
It's not identical too, but church law in Western civilization

1257
01:13:09,359 --> 01:13:14,840
was very influential on modern American law, on English common law,

1258
01:13:15,079 --> 01:13:19,239
on you know, the US legal system. It all is

1259
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,920
historically speaking, sort of bound up together. And even when

1260
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,600
I was a Catholic, I read a bunch of books

1261
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,039
on the Middle Ages and the Inquisition, and people don't

1262
01:13:29,039 --> 01:13:32,359
even realize that, like a lot of modern theories of

1263
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,199
the rights of the accused. Believe it or not, it

1264
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:37,119
actually comes out of the Inquisition because they wanted to

1265
01:13:37,159 --> 01:13:42,079
set up rights of the accused so that they couldn't

1266
01:13:42,159 --> 01:13:45,479
just be you know, willy nilly accused. You had to

1267
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,520
have proof, you had to you know. I think maybe

1268
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,239
even habeas corpus something like that. I'm going from memory.

1269
01:13:51,239 --> 01:13:52,840
I haven't read about this in many, many years, but

1270
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,520
I think it's stuff like that actually goes back to

1271
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:58,399
like church law in the Middle Ages. And another thing

1272
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,560
too about the Inquisition is like people, well, there was

1273
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,199
more than one inquisition. There was the Spanish Inquisition, and

1274
01:14:04,319 --> 01:14:07,000
that was distinct from it was the same idea. But

1275
01:14:07,039 --> 01:14:10,119
as just sink from the Papal Inquisition, the Spanish Inquisition

1276
01:14:10,319 --> 01:14:15,359
was pretty closely allied with whatever Isabella and you know,

1277
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:20,359
the Spanish monarchy wanted. They were pretty strict, they were

1278
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,079
pretty when you hear about like Audo de Fay ceremonies

1279
01:14:23,199 --> 01:14:28,199
like mostly that was the Spanish Inquisition, and then suffer

1280
01:14:28,239 --> 01:14:30,039
from that was what was going on in Rome with

1281
01:14:30,079 --> 01:14:32,159
the Papal Inquisition. And I'm not saying that the Papal

1282
01:14:32,199 --> 01:14:36,680
Inquisition probably didn't overstep their balance. But actually the idea

1283
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,159
of it isn't that crazy if you think about medieval society.

1284
01:14:40,319 --> 01:14:42,279
I mean, that might make some Orthodox people mad, but

1285
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:44,760
it's just something that I found really interesting when I

1286
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:46,760
was Roman. CALLI a tradcat, and I read a bunch

1287
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,880
on it, and it's not as crazy as you think,

1288
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:55,079
especially if you watch my talk on medieval heresy, because

1289
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,319
what would happen is they would hand the person over

1290
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,239
to the state, which is kind of what goes on

1291
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,319
or went on in Byzantium to a degree. And even

1292
01:15:05,359 --> 01:15:09,840
though Byzantium, to my knowledge, didn't immediately execute they there

1293
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:12,680
may have been some cases where there was a heretical positions,

1294
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,880
but usually it was just your banished from the kingdom,

1295
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,279
like you're booted, like you can't can't live in the

1296
01:15:18,279 --> 01:15:20,279
businessing empire anymore, something like that. Right, I'm going for

1297
01:15:20,319 --> 01:15:24,359
a memory, because there's some gonna be some specialist who's like, oh,

1298
01:15:24,399 --> 01:15:27,199
he's wrong among this. In the thirteen twenty two there

1299
01:15:27,319 --> 01:15:29,079
was the case of Blah blah blah. I don't remember

1300
01:15:29,119 --> 01:15:32,439
every detail, but the stuff I read ten years ago anyway,

1301
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:40,960
fifteen years ago, elder millennial, what's up? Dog? Just one

1302
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,920
second before you speak. I forgot to mention shout out

1303
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,960
to Orbit Productions, which is a great channel name. They

1304
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:53,039
put up a clip a series of clips, which is

1305
01:15:53,239 --> 01:15:57,640
I think a pretty good summation of the basics against

1306
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,119
west Huff. So you want to know, like my basic

1307
01:16:01,159 --> 01:16:05,600
critique at WES up just because I don't think I'm

1308
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:07,880
pretty sure Wes He replied the other day on Twitter

1309
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:10,039
that he's not interested in a debate, and then I

1310
01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:14,600
suggested just an informal civil conversation and he didn't reply,

1311
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,720
So I'm guessing he's not that interested in that. But

1312
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,960
if I did have a debate, it would go along

1313
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,039
the lines of what basic principles I put in this

1314
01:16:26,199 --> 01:16:28,600
video or they put in this video? What's up?

1315
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 11: Man?

1316
01:16:30,039 --> 01:16:31,520
Speaker 24: Hey Jay, it's in a while.

1317
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,039
Speaker 5: Have you noticed.

1318
01:16:37,399 --> 01:16:40,199
Speaker 24: The recent I'm sure you have, actually, but I haven't

1319
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:46,760
heard you touch on it specifically, a subset of all this,

1320
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:54,439
how shall I put it? I've noticed a lot of

1321
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,439
the people pushing the whole woke right narrative are trying

1322
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:05,800
to lump in high church economics in with it, regardless

1323
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:11,800
of what whatever else proponents of.

1324
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:14,399
Speaker 13: When you say high church economics, do you mean like

1325
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:18,000
just traditional critiques of like libertarian.

1326
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:24,079
Speaker 24: What do you mean, Well, something you could maybe maybe

1327
01:17:24,119 --> 01:17:25,640
the basic ideas of G.

1328
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:27,680
Speaker 5: K Esterton on economics.

1329
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,039
Speaker 24: I've noted that there's that old maybe you've heard that.

1330
01:17:31,199 --> 01:17:33,560
Maybe maybe back when you were tried cat you heard

1331
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:34,279
the old saw.

1332
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,520
Speaker 13: Distributism distributis positions.

1333
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:40,239
Speaker 24: Yeah, yeah, distributism is just communism with rosaries, that kind

1334
01:17:40,239 --> 01:17:40,479
of thing.

1335
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 13: The woke h the Lindsay crowd would would definitely be

1336
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:46,000
saying that.

1337
01:17:46,079 --> 01:17:51,199
Speaker 24: Yeah, Yeah, I've been I've been accusing Lindsay of being

1338
01:17:51,319 --> 01:17:54,720
an economic nativist, an economic Calvinist lately.

1339
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 13: I think, I think inadvertently is even though he's not Christian,

1340
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:00,840
if you look at if you look at the circles

1341
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,119
he's in, he's in the circles of like Southern Baptist stuff.

1342
01:18:04,319 --> 01:18:08,600
Speaker 24: Well, I've been saying basically, Lindsey doesn't believe in Adam

1343
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:11,920
Smith's God, but he believes in Adam Smith exactly.

1344
01:18:12,119 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 13: And by the way, he often tours with Michael o'fallen,

1345
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,800
the Calvinist Baptist preacher.

1346
01:18:18,039 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 24: Oh Fallin, Oh Fallen, the miser, Oh Fallen, the shanty,

1347
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:26,880
Oh Follen, the.

1348
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 5: The soup taker who's.

1349
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 24: Bringing back the I say this as an orthodox Christian,

1350
01:18:36,039 --> 01:18:41,319
and I agree there's only one good nativist argument, and

1351
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:46,239
that's the problem with papal supremacy. But they lump in

1352
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,439
all this. But they are fundamentally anti high Church across

1353
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:53,680
the board, absolutely, and they are they they don't care

1354
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:58,119
if we believe, if we agree with that starting position,

1355
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:03,079
but disagree with him on all other ideas. I mean,

1356
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:09,039
they're against clericalism and and priest craft in general and

1357
01:19:09,239 --> 01:19:14,279
the and Uh we say, well, we're decentralized. Our bishops

1358
01:19:14,399 --> 01:19:16,520
are autocephalists.

1359
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:16,319
Speaker 8: But they don't even know.

1360
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:18,319
Speaker 5: But they don't want to hear.

1361
01:19:18,279 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 8: Any of the high Church. Uh.

1362
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:25,600
Speaker 24: And uh, there's and or the virtues of and and

1363
01:19:26,039 --> 01:19:28,960
this this I when I I began to pick up

1364
01:19:30,359 --> 01:19:35,439
the past November. Uh, the these uh accusations, these this

1365
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:41,760
attempt to lump high Church economics in with with communism, uh,

1366
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:46,920
which is an absolute libel, an unscrupulous slander, depending of

1367
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:47,960
it's written or spoken.

1368
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 8: Obviously, Uh.

1369
01:19:49,399 --> 01:19:54,520
Speaker 24: And it's uh, it's it's just beyond my ability to

1370
01:19:55,239 --> 01:19:58,880
endure and not to mention. It's kind of creepy and

1371
01:19:59,159 --> 01:20:02,239
not as well, was kind of ironic when they're starting

1372
01:20:02,279 --> 01:20:05,239
to sound like Bill the butcher from Games of New York.

1373
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:07,399
Speaker 13: That's fun.

1374
01:20:09,039 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, you polpish persons.

1375
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 24: I am't gonna cut your heart out.

1376
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 5: And that's the kind of thing that.

1377
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 24: And yet it was from those kinds of native Is

1378
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:28,680
that the Kolkoks kind of a rose. It's Lindsey likes

1379
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:33,479
to blob on about my grandmother is a Roman Catholic.

1380
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,720
I oh sure, yeah, yeah, you don't mind Roman Catholics

1381
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,600
as law or other high church denominations, as long as

1382
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:44,600
they keep they keep their damn opinions about economics to ourselves.

1383
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 13: The fundamentally, well, just notice what's the most important thing.

1384
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,000
They're economics, right, that's the god of that system and.

1385
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 24: The it I have noted that the last one hundred

1386
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,880
and fifty years has pretty much been a chess game

1387
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:07,359
between two princes of Hell, Mammon and Belpha Gore. Mammon

1388
01:21:09,279 --> 01:21:13,000
Adam Smith is gonna It was the prophet of Mammon

1389
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,840
and Marx was the prophet of Belpha Gore.

1390
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:17,600
Speaker 13: That's a good way to put it. I like that

1391
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:21,399
really perceptive, and I did want I'm glad you mentioned

1392
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:25,279
that Elder Millennium, because I wanted to discuss I forgot

1393
01:21:25,359 --> 01:21:29,920
to mention this ridiculous podcast and no one listens to

1394
01:21:31,319 --> 01:21:36,439
Universe next Door. They responded to me by saying that

1395
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,159
we invited Lindsay to speak at our church because it's

1396
01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:43,800
better to hear what's going on rather than this is

1397
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,399
a reply on my tweet, right, rather than people that

1398
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:53,319
are stealing his material. Stealing his material? What in the

1399
01:21:53,399 --> 01:21:57,399
hell would I steal from James Lindsay Nothing. I've been

1400
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:02,760
on two podcasts with him and we had very cordial,

1401
01:22:03,319 --> 01:22:07,760
excellent conversations. There's nothing in that that I stole from him,

1402
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:12,079
So that's crazy to begin with. Secondly, I think that

1403
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:16,159
the I want to add too, that this is my

1404
01:22:16,319 --> 01:22:19,800
fourth offer to debate, So I've offered debate James only

1405
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,960
three times. He won't debate. He says he's not into debating.

1406
01:22:23,319 --> 01:22:25,399
Now he'll debate all day on Twitter, but he won't

1407
01:22:25,399 --> 01:22:29,439
do a public formal debate. So what does that tell you? Like,

1408
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:33,720
people can't really defend their ideas other than to just

1409
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:37,119
sort of throw poop on Twitter and call everybody names

1410
01:22:37,159 --> 01:22:40,720
like wop right, which is his own op. Calling everyone

1411
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:45,199
woke right is itself an op to keep conservatives on

1412
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:50,640
the neoliberal plantation. That's the point of that, and it's

1413
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,239
absolutely correct to link it to their hatred of high

1414
01:22:54,319 --> 01:22:57,600
Church stuff, because if you remember, this all kind of

1415
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:02,319
started when last year Lynn he was going after Peterson

1416
01:23:02,399 --> 01:23:07,399
and Pagoe and I have criticisms of Peterson. I've had

1417
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:10,960
been criticizing Peterson's classical liberalism for like ten years, right,

1418
01:23:11,239 --> 01:23:13,000
You've all seen the video that I put up ten eight,

1419
01:23:13,119 --> 01:23:18,159
nine years ago. And what's interesting is that Peterson actually

1420
01:23:18,279 --> 01:23:21,359
moved away from some of those classic liberal positions that

1421
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:24,800
has put out these tweets, and I think Pago has

1422
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,079
had a role in that, right in terms of trying

1423
01:23:27,119 --> 01:23:31,880
to move him away from the classical liberal Enlightenment positions. Now,

1424
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:34,039
I'm not saying that Peterson doesn't have a long way

1425
01:23:34,039 --> 01:23:38,359
to go. He still does. He's made some huge mistakes

1426
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:42,239
in the past few months, obviously, but Pagoe and Peterson

1427
01:23:42,399 --> 01:23:45,119
are more in the right direction for sure on this

1428
01:23:45,239 --> 01:23:49,119
issue the Enlightenment than Lindsay. And it's just funny that

1429
01:23:49,239 --> 01:23:52,560
all this kicked off with Lindsay going after Peterson and

1430
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:56,960
Pagot last year, and then I didn't. I only saw

1431
01:23:57,079 --> 01:24:01,359
one clip from when Peterson had Lindsay on the podcast.

1432
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:05,159
The other day, And it was like Lindsay doing the

1433
01:24:05,279 --> 01:24:09,119
silly word concept fallacy of like what is Lucifer the

1434
01:24:09,199 --> 01:24:11,840
light bringer the sun of the morning. What do you

1435
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,079
do in the morning you wake up? That's woke. Like

1436
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,399
we're talking like Jordan Maxwell level word concept fallacies.

1437
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 9: What is the birth of a ship? The birth is

1438
01:24:22,039 --> 01:24:25,680
where the ship enters the water from the front. You

1439
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:32,479
are birthed through your mother's canal through water. That birth

1440
01:24:33,239 --> 01:24:36,439
then makes you under the admiralty.

1441
01:24:36,119 --> 01:24:42,199
Speaker 13: Law of the New World Order, right, just like insane

1442
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:45,600
schizo level. I'm not saying James Schidzo. I'm saying that

1443
01:24:46,079 --> 01:24:49,079
the level of word concept fallacies that are classic to

1444
01:24:49,119 --> 01:24:54,680
the Jordan maxwellsphere are are identical to the argumentation of

1445
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,439
James Lindsay and that and again he's in the Baptist

1446
01:24:57,479 --> 01:25:01,439
Reform Baptist sphere. Of course he's gonna think that anything

1447
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:04,920
High Church. If you say the mysteries, right, which we

1448
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:07,960
mean the sacraments, And I remember when I was Protestant,

1449
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,880
my Reform pastor would say the mysteries, that's the ancient

1450
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:16,680
pig and mysteries. Even though Paul uses the word mysterio

1451
01:25:17,079 --> 01:25:22,159
in the New Testament, mysterion in the Greek. It's like, oh,

1452
01:25:22,279 --> 01:25:26,079
that's the same thing as the pagan ancient mysteries. Like

1453
01:25:26,199 --> 01:25:28,000
you couldn't say the mystery of the Trinity.

1454
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 8: This is just so silly.

1455
01:25:30,399 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 13: And this is why the Church Fathers are absolutely correct

1456
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:39,000
say that heretics get confused and stumble over words. They

1457
01:25:39,079 --> 01:25:42,560
actually can't do grammar. I mean, I mean, it's true,

1458
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,520
they can't do metaphysics either, But we a lot of

1459
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:48,840
times get caught up in the metaphysics of this or

1460
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:52,359
that heretical position. Oh, the arian position is subordinationists, it

1461
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:57,760
denies you know, Homeleusius, it's Homoleusius. But just like with

1462
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,479
Orientals or Monophysites or whatever, like, they get hung up

1463
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:06,520
on words and they can't understand flexibility with language. It's

1464
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:09,159
really weird. We've talked about this so many times on

1465
01:26:09,239 --> 01:26:12,399
the channel, how people have such a hard time with

1466
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,359
the flexibility of language, right, and saying that language is

1467
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:20,960
flexible and it deals with intentionality and with context doesn't

1468
01:26:21,039 --> 01:26:24,039
mean that it's totally relative. There's some middle way point

1469
01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:27,960
here between a stupid position that a word can only

1470
01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:30,960
have one reference or one meaning. Okay, that's really dumb,

1471
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:35,760
versus some other position of like, oh, well words or

1472
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:37,800
you know, postmodernism or something like, well, you could never

1473
01:26:38,039 --> 01:26:40,079
know the meaning of the word and the author's intent

1474
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:42,760
or anything like that. So there's two extremes of this,

1475
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,319
but in the middle is a position that says that

1476
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:50,239
words aren't totally relative or flexible, but they are to

1477
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:54,199
a degree relative and flexible. Again, look at doctor Branson's

1478
01:26:54,199 --> 01:26:59,720
classic example. Does the word kid have one reference? If

1479
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,600
I say I'm going to eat a kid, well, that's

1480
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:06,239
a goat, okay, and there's nothing wrong with eating a goat.

1481
01:27:06,399 --> 01:27:09,439
But a kid can also refer to a human child, Okay.

1482
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:13,279
So no, no, no, not semantics, no no no. So

1483
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:18,960
it's true that esophagus. Sometimes there could be a dispute

1484
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:24,640
over semantics grammar. This is why doctor Branson makes it

1485
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:29,560
a key point to stress that when Basil was outlining

1486
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:34,640
the one in the Mini and Ussia and Hopistasis in

1487
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:39,520
his writings, he was actually just using existing grammar works

1488
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,159
at that time. So it's the way that grammar works

1489
01:27:42,239 --> 01:27:47,279
to pick out a subject and a predicate and literally

1490
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,960
like heretics and uneducated people like they just makes really

1491
01:27:53,119 --> 01:28:02,359
fundamentally stupid mistakes over this kind of stuff. Father deacon,

1492
01:28:02,359 --> 01:28:03,840
and I have invited you to co host. You have

1493
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:10,239
to accept the invite. Ai Angel, we got We're gonna

1494
01:28:10,279 --> 01:28:17,680
have to debate a bot here. You know what's funny

1495
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:21,920
before Ai speaks, the very example of James Lindsay itself

1496
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:29,119
actually disproves James Lindsay because the Bible refers to Jesus

1497
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:33,199
as the morning star and Lucifer as the morning star.

1498
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:36,399
So does that mean Jesus. This is like Charles Manson

1499
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,479
level thinking, right, that means Jesus as Lucifer. No, that's

1500
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:43,439
actually a fallacy. It's the same word referring to two

1501
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:47,880
different things in two different ways. Right. So Lucifer the

1502
01:28:48,039 --> 01:28:52,560
light of the morning, the bright morning star. Right, Paul says,

1503
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,359
Satan can come to you like an angel light and

1504
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:58,760
deceive you. So Lucifer is like that light in that way,

1505
01:28:59,119 --> 01:29:01,560
as a appearing as an angel of light and so forth,

1506
01:29:02,479 --> 01:29:07,399
but being deceptive. But heyk, but because the light rises,

1507
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,960
it's like a resurrection, and that way, the morning star

1508
01:29:11,239 --> 01:29:14,600
is like the resurrection of Christ. So it's it's it's Satan,

1509
01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:18,199
the lion of the tribe of Judah. Okay, is Jesus.

1510
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:22,039
But Satan goes around like a lion. How can people

1511
01:29:22,119 --> 01:29:24,319
not see that? This is just a basic feature of grammar.

1512
01:29:24,359 --> 01:29:28,279
Speaker 12: Go ahead, father Degan, can you tell the audience remember

1513
01:29:28,399 --> 01:29:32,960
when we were in La with Jamie Kennedy and and uh,

1514
01:29:33,159 --> 01:29:36,319
after you're saying books and that guy came up and.

1515
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:40,359
Speaker 5: He was playing that like word. He was like, see,

1516
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:42,920
lion has the word lion in it.

1517
01:29:43,199 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 12: Liar, right, which has an L and if you take

1518
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,399
the l which is what for Lucifer the morning.

1519
01:29:50,279 --> 01:29:54,119
Speaker 5: Star, right, which, if you think about.

1520
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 8: It, Lou read Lou, Lou read.

1521
01:29:57,960 --> 01:29:58,079
Speaker 6: Uh.

1522
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:03,600
Speaker 5: The he was saying that I don't remember, I'm just kidding.

1523
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 13: He said that in Genesis, I can tell you what

1524
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:07,920
it was. He said, in Genesis you had the biding

1525
01:30:08,039 --> 01:30:11,439
out of biding of the apple, which signifies the fall,

1526
01:30:12,359 --> 01:30:15,800
and the the bitten apple is the symbol of Apple computers.

1527
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,960
And he said Apple computers was who was in the

1528
01:30:20,039 --> 01:30:25,560
garden of Eden testing Adam and Eve and that, I'm

1529
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:27,239
not kidding, that proves that we live in an in

1530
01:30:27,319 --> 01:30:28,960
an Apple computer simulation.

1531
01:30:30,159 --> 01:30:31,319
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's right.

1532
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:34,119
Speaker 13: So he had a he had a vast Yeah, I'm

1533
01:30:34,119 --> 01:30:36,000
not I'm not being rude. This is actually the way

1534
01:30:36,079 --> 01:30:39,800
schizophrenia works. You know, not in an internet calling everybody

1535
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:43,000
skitz away. But like the actual way of schizophrenia, they

1536
01:30:43,039 --> 01:30:48,520
will attach metaphysical significance to word concept fallacies, so you'll

1537
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:51,840
get the same usage of a word in two different

1538
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:56,880
contexts actually refers to the same thing onto logically, And

1539
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:00,159
that's exactly what Charles Manson's doing, right. Manson says, like

1540
01:31:01,079 --> 01:31:04,279
Carl Young does this. He says, the Bible calls Lucifer

1541
01:31:04,399 --> 01:31:07,359
the morning star. It calls Jesus the morning star. So

1542
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:08,880
Jesus and Lucifer are the same thing.

1543
01:31:11,039 --> 01:31:13,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had a friend. I've told you the story.

1544
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 13: Ahead.

1545
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:19,119
Speaker 12: I had a friend who developed a schizoid effective disorder when.

1546
01:31:20,319 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 5: We were eighteen years old. And it was exactly like this.

1547
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:33,359
Speaker 12: So it was what you notice about schizoid effective or

1548
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:39,600
schizophrenia for normal mind, after the very last thing you conclude,

1549
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:45,920
after you exhausted all other possibilities, So the farthest out

1550
01:31:46,079 --> 01:31:49,319
thing for the schizophrenic mine they immediately attached.

1551
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:51,640
Speaker 5: That's the first thing they attach.

1552
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,560
Speaker 12: And so they give significance and meaning where that there

1553
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:57,319
is no evidence of that whatsoever.

1554
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:01,399
Speaker 5: And they it's a story, it's a.

1555
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:08,239
Speaker 12: Narrative, right, And they're really concerned and obsessed with numbers

1556
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:14,880
in words and so and that they everything has meaning

1557
01:32:15,039 --> 01:32:18,239
and they have to interpret it. And so one of

1558
01:32:18,279 --> 01:32:21,199
the things that my friend who developed I'll give you

1559
01:32:21,239 --> 01:32:25,439
an example what it was like, he had some guy

1560
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:31,520
borrowed his lighter to light his cigarette or something, and

1561
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:35,039
the guy forgot to give it back, and so he

1562
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:40,359
drove away thinking about like started, you know, obsessing about.

1563
01:32:40,159 --> 01:32:41,119
Speaker 8: This, like who is that guy?

1564
01:32:41,159 --> 01:32:44,199
Speaker 5: Why would he take my lighter? Blah blah blah. It

1565
01:32:44,319 --> 01:32:45,600
was my only lighter that I had.

1566
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 11: It was a.

1567
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:50,520
Speaker 5: Red lighter, and like he was just he was going

1568
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:51,439
on anyways.

1569
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:56,359
Speaker 12: Then later in the day somebody a friend pulls out

1570
01:32:56,399 --> 01:33:01,000
a red lighter and what does he do. He's like, huh,

1571
01:33:01,399 --> 01:33:03,359
I had my lighters going Now you point out it

1572
01:33:03,399 --> 01:33:05,520
could have been any lighter, but it was a red lighter,

1573
01:33:06,079 --> 01:33:09,720
but red as the universal sign forst stop to stop.

1574
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:11,920
Maybe you're telling me to stop smoking. Maybe this whole

1575
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:15,000
thing was organized by you too, So do you see

1576
01:33:15,039 --> 01:33:16,800
these things? And then he would take numbers.

1577
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:21,239
Speaker 13: It's the same. It's the same thing. Every conspiracy, I mean,

1578
01:33:21,319 --> 01:33:25,760
not not a real an analyst, but like a legit

1579
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:28,239
paranoid conspiracy theorist does the same thing.

1580
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:34,239
Speaker 12: It made it extremely anxiety inducing to be around him

1581
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:39,039
because you knew anything you could do that was unintentional.

1582
01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 5: Right, it's like, what if I move my hand this.

1583
01:33:41,039 --> 01:33:44,319
Speaker 13: Way would be misinterpreted as it's going to be misinterpreted.

1584
01:33:44,319 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 12: It'd be like, that's the Mason's hand, Like why would

1585
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:48,079
you give a mason signal?

1586
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:49,399
Speaker 5: Are you a mason?

1587
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 13: Are you again?

1588
01:33:50,119 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 5: Like it was all like this kind of.

1589
01:33:54,239 --> 01:33:58,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, just elaborate and any sounding word that sounded like

1590
01:33:59,079 --> 01:34:01,239
another word, if if it was the same word, if

1591
01:34:01,279 --> 01:34:02,199
it was a color.

1592
01:34:02,039 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 5: If it was a number.

1593
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 12: Everything started getting connected right into a grand kind of

1594
01:34:07,039 --> 01:34:13,199
narrative that again maybe as logically possible, but that would

1595
01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:17,199
be as far out as possible after everything was exhausted.

1596
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,840
There's literally no evidence for it. But that's the very

1597
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:23,279
first thing that they go to. It's it's it's unfortunate,

1598
01:34:23,399 --> 01:34:27,880
it's it's and you can see it's not it's actually painful.

1599
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:31,920
It's for them, it's not something like they're enjoying that

1600
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:32,560
they're doing this.

1601
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,640
Speaker 13: Can you see Actually, But it's also as you pointed

1602
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:37,840
out when we had this, when you were first telling

1603
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:40,079
me about him, I remember you saying that there's another

1604
01:34:40,159 --> 01:34:42,520
part of it which is is weird too, which is

1605
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,279
that it's almost like everything that's happening in the world

1606
01:34:45,359 --> 01:34:49,680
revolves around them, you know what I mean. It's like everything, right,

1607
01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:53,479
like the things that appear on a on a billboard

1608
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,319
as you're driving down La, like that's a message to you.

1609
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:57,000
You know what I mean?

1610
01:34:57,079 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 12: Because I had another friend that that developed mental illnesses

1611
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,600
as well, and I talked about this in the same

1612
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:10,279
Pacius Brotherhood and the theme of betrayal and forgiveness. So

1613
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:14,159
what you see in this is a trauma. These people

1614
01:35:14,319 --> 01:35:20,600
have soul trauma, psychic trauma, like something came to PTSD. Now,

1615
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:24,680
when you experience trauma, you experience an excommunication.

1616
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 13: Right, go ahead and keep talking. I got to use

1617
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:28,680
the rustroom. Go ahead.

1618
01:35:29,239 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, you've been betrayed by your fellow man, by a girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse,

1619
01:35:37,159 --> 01:35:39,159
a community, god forbid, a priest.

1620
01:35:39,399 --> 01:35:40,760
Speaker 5: You know sometimes that happens.

1621
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 12: What happens, Well, you were once in communion with somebody

1622
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:49,119
and now you're excommunicated and you receive like a soldier

1623
01:35:49,199 --> 01:35:55,760
who is in war, which is an enemy. Right, combative situation, spiritual,

1624
01:35:55,880 --> 01:36:01,359
psychic and soul harm and moral harm in which you

1625
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:06,119
feel isolated and excommunicated, and the self, because it's made

1626
01:36:06,319 --> 01:36:10,680
in the image of God, who is community, it's meant.

1627
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:11,279
Speaker 23: To be in community.

1628
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:17,159
Speaker 5: You begin to lose yourself and you begin to unravel.

1629
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:20,479
As I spoke, the very notion of self.

1630
01:36:20,359 --> 01:36:25,039
Speaker 12: Begins to you start to slip into non being. If

1631
01:36:25,119 --> 01:36:34,199
you're beings constituted by love and communion and liturgy. When

1632
01:36:34,199 --> 01:36:38,880
you experience trauma, hatred, right, abandonment, or any.

1633
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:42,800
Speaker 5: Moral atrocity, you're excommunicating and.

1634
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:47,159
Speaker 12: You start to lose yourself. And so what you desperately

1635
01:36:47,239 --> 01:36:51,920
try to do is reach out to something to re

1636
01:36:52,079 --> 01:36:55,000
establish that, and you reach out to the wrong things.

1637
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:59,880
So the therapist to talk about my friend is that

1638
01:37:00,039 --> 01:37:06,000
he'd experienced this. There was abandonment, in betrayal, He didn't

1639
01:37:06,079 --> 01:37:10,520
know who his real parents were, finally found out his mom,

1640
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:12,319
who abandoned him, went from.

1641
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 5: Foster home to foster home, was then.

1642
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,279
Speaker 12: Kicked out of our school in junior high and sent to.

1643
01:37:18,359 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 5: A crazy like Baptist.

1644
01:37:23,079 --> 01:37:28,439
Speaker 12: Rehabilitation camp for troubled teens in which there was a murder.

1645
01:37:29,079 --> 01:37:33,159
He can't have to be shut down right, moral harm

1646
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:38,600
and psychic arm, over and over and furtherman of excommunication,

1647
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:42,479
until he began to lose himself. He began to unravel

1648
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:46,439
his very identity and being so with these kind of

1649
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:52,000
moral and psychic arms, what happens oftentimes is this, you

1650
01:37:52,239 --> 01:37:57,319
have a literal mental diagnosis of schizard affective disorder, in

1651
01:37:57,479 --> 01:38:02,359
which the therapist had said, he constructed a narrative, a story,

1652
01:38:03,199 --> 01:38:04,359
an imaginative story.

1653
01:38:04,399 --> 01:38:09,199
Speaker 5: And guess who the star of the story is. It

1654
01:38:09,359 --> 01:38:09,960
wasn't about me.

1655
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,800
Speaker 12: All the stuff that was he was telling me about,

1656
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:17,079
like the government and they're doing this, and it was

1657
01:38:17,159 --> 01:38:17,880
never about me.

1658
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:19,199
Speaker 10: He was the star.

1659
01:38:19,319 --> 01:38:23,640
Speaker 13: Care We're just the the extra, the supporting extras in

1660
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:24,640
his place.

1661
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 5: So why was he doing that?

1662
01:38:27,079 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 12: Because he had a loss of what is doctor Strangelove

1663
01:38:33,239 --> 01:38:38,640
man Drake, I perceived a loss of essence, do you

1664
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:43,279
remember that scene? And so there's a loss of essence

1665
01:38:43,319 --> 01:38:46,960
and identity. He was unraveling and he stopped to reconstruct

1666
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,199
an identity and when doing so, of the story. You

1667
01:38:49,399 --> 01:38:50,640
are the center of the story.

1668
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 5: And it's madness too. That's the other thing. If you've lost.

1669
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 12: Yourself in your mind and there's nothing to hold on to,

1670
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,439
no wonder you reach out to like well five three

1671
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:05,439
seven eight. Now that was the license plate of the

1672
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:08,680
last and if you add those numbers, it actually does.

1673
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:10,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, and if you actually.

1674
01:39:10,079 --> 01:39:12,680
Speaker 12: Translate into the Hebrew, that does spell red. And now

1675
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:15,079
you're here with the red lighter, which means stop. Why

1676
01:39:15,159 --> 01:39:16,359
don't you stop talking?

1677
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:18,119
Speaker 5: Or do I stop talking?

1678
01:39:18,279 --> 01:39:18,720
Speaker 15: D you see?

1679
01:39:19,199 --> 01:39:21,479
Speaker 13: Have you seen? Do you remember the movie PI, the

1680
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:24,680
Darren Aronofsky movie from that any eight? Yeah, So it's

1681
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:27,880
been it's been probably twenty twenty five years since I

1682
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:29,880
watched it. But if I remember, doesn't he go crazy

1683
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:31,960
at the end. It's it's the same situation where you

1684
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,560
have this, Yeah, he really drills.

1685
01:39:34,359 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 12: He can't even get a fos to stop. And doesn't

1686
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,880
he take a drill and drill a hole in his.

1687
01:39:40,119 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 13: Something crazy like that? Yeah? Like, And it's like he's

1688
01:39:44,039 --> 01:39:48,279
in the rabbinic Jewish community and he gets interested in gamatria,

1689
01:39:49,079 --> 01:39:52,039
yes and cabala, and so he starts seeing everything as

1690
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:55,720
you know, math code, just like the gamatry idiots on

1691
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:58,520
the internet do, and he basically just goes insane. I mean,

1692
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:00,079
it's a pretty good figure.

1693
01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:02,359
Speaker 12: Out the stock market because you think the stock marker

1694
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:05,720
and number that all humans, So notice it's thoroughly reductive

1695
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:06,079
of what a.

1696
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:06,840
Speaker 5: Human being is.

1697
01:40:07,279 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 12: A human being can just be reduced to propositions, numbers,

1698
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:12,439
and formula, right, So.

1699
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,840
Speaker 5: It's just way too complicated. But see, he's smart enough,

1700
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:18,479
so he's the star of his own story too. I'm

1701
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,000
smarter than everybody. I'm the mathematician.

1702
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:24,039
Speaker 12: I'm actually going to come up with this formula to

1703
01:40:24,279 --> 01:40:26,319
understand the stock market, and then I'll be able to

1704
01:40:26,399 --> 01:40:29,479
predict all human behavior. All humanity would be able to

1705
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:32,960
reduce to a mathematical formula. And in his attempt to

1706
01:40:33,119 --> 01:40:36,119
understand humanity, he loses humanity and loses himself.

1707
01:40:37,319 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 13: That guy who called in the other day Derek Brose,

1708
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:42,239
and I'm pretty sure it's the same Derek Brose that

1709
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:44,960
is the conspiracy guy. I'm not sure because it's different

1710
01:40:45,039 --> 01:40:48,159
profile names. But it was a very large account, like

1711
01:40:48,159 --> 01:40:50,680
one hundred thousand that called in. Did you You may

1712
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:52,239
not have been on here, I remember, but he was

1713
01:40:52,279 --> 01:40:55,079
the guy saying that he's decoded the real message of

1714
01:40:55,119 --> 01:40:58,960
Jesus through cryptography. Did you hear that guy?

1715
01:40:59,199 --> 01:41:03,680
Speaker 5: By the way, John Nash came to give a lecture

1716
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:11,680
at my college. Yeah, somebody put John Nash in in

1717
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:13,960
there too. No, I miss that. That's interesting.

1718
01:41:16,079 --> 01:41:19,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's a it's a demonic

1719
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:21,800
delusion that is