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Speaker 1: Jagger is their own force. So I obviously did something

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wrong and I apologize to the sports gods.

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Speaker 2: You'll note how I You'll know how I've not mentioned it, Charlie.

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Speaker 3: The gods will ensure that that team loses as long

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as you continue to mispronounce it. The gods football gods

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are American, my boy, Ask.

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Speaker 2: Not what your country can do for you, Ask what

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you can do for your country.

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Speaker 1: Mister gorbachaw tear down this wall.

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Speaker 2: It's the Ricochet Podcast. But Charles C. W. Cook and

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Peter Robinson, I'm James Linox and today we talked to

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Eli Lake about Israel and the effects of iddies on

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the election. So let's have ourselves with podcasting.

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Speaker 4: We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on

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the landing Grounge. We'll fight in the fields and in

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the streets. We'll fight in the hills. We shall never surrender.

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Speaker 2: Now, look, my community knows who I am, and I'm

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a knuckleheaded times but it's always been about that. Welcome everybody.

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It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven to eleven. That's right.

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We're not brought to you by the Southland Corporation, but

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we are happy to be here. Anyway, providing all the

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things you need for your daily Internet podcast Joy. I'm

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James Leleax in Minneapolis, beautiful fall day, and I'm speaking

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again with Peter Robinson in Sonny Clement, California, and Charles C. W.

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Cook in Florida. Where the weather could be humid or

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not so much or sunny. You're beautiful or hurricane stricken

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or whatever. In any case, you're here, good gentlemen. Welcome,

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Thank you, James, thank you. So we had a debate.

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We indeed had a debate, and there was some stuff

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that had been leaked before that said that Waltz was

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actually kind of nervous about this, and people were saying,

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you know what, they're just trying to They're trying to

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massage your expectations, so you're really impressed when he just

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knocks it out of the park. And I spoke to

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a few people who were in Waltz's corner and came

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away from that the big permanent wins creased on their face.

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For any number of things. The moment to me that

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summed it all up was you can't shout fire in

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a crowded theater being spoken by a man who presumably

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is smart enough to no better run the country. What

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were your takeaways from that? And do you think any

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lasting impact on the election.

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Speaker 3: The way you put that question? And it is now

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mandatory for us to give Charlie a moment to explain

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why that nineteen nineteen constitutional decision is no longer of

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any well, it's of relevance. I said, go ahead, Charlie,

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take it.

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Speaker 1: You guys have just wound me up. You've put me

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on the floor and wound me up because this annoys me,

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as you know, immensely. This is a bat signal for me,

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because it is everything that possibly could be wrong with

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an American politician talking about free speeches encapsulated in that

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moment from Tim Wallas. First off, it's falsely in a

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crowded theater something while with shouting fire and crowded theaters,

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that there's a fire, You're just not allowed to do it,

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if you're lying, if you're trying to cause a stampede.

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Speaker 3: Charlie, the phrase the phrase comes from give us the

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historical hell.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, more importantly, though, it was

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an analogy, and it's a horrible analogy that thankfully was

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overturned by Brandenburg. V Ohio in nineteen sixty nine. The

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analogy is with an immigrant who didn't speak English protesting

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against World War One. So it wasn't actually about theaters

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or fires, or falsehoods or panics. The argument was, if

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you are out on the street handing out leaflets in

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Yiddish telling people not to sign up for the draft

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because it violates their constitutional rights, because you oppose a

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war that is happening three and a half thousand miles away,

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a war that was fairly disastrous, you are the equivalent

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of somebody who will ran into a thing and shouted

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fire and caused a bunch of death, which is insane.

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It is insane given the American tradition of free speech.

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The entire purpose of the First Amendment, which above all

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else says the freedom of speech, which is a term

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of art that meant something at the time of ratification,

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above all else, protects the rights of American citizens to

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debate whether or not what their government is doing is legitimate.

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What could be more core to that than a war,

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a foreign war. So that Timwore said this at all

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is ignorant, but that he was saying it in the

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interest of justifying one of the worst laws ever passed

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the Espionage and Sedition Acts of the twentieth century under

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Woodrow Wilson, and a Supreme Court decision that has thankfully

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been made of moot and forgotten and is disliked broadly,

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is even worse. Awful man, awful man who proved his

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awfulness in that moment.

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Speaker 3: But hold on just a moment. The nineteen nineteen decision

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Justice Oliver Wendelholmes Junior, who, even if the decision was wrong,

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was a pretty remarkable figure. Let's see Bill Buckley used

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to say, Alistair Cook, your countryman. Alistair Cook arrived in

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this country in the thirties, and one of the first

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interviews he conducted was with Oliver Wendelholmes Junior. And Holmes

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shook his hand and said, my boy, you have just

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shaken the hand of a man who shook the hand

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of Lincoln. And Bill would then, Bill, of course would

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then say, you've shaken the hand of a man who

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shook the hand of a man who shook the hand

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with Lincoln. All right, Oliver Welde Holmes wrote, quote, the

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most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a

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man in falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing

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a panic close quote in isolation. The sentence is sensible, Charlie.

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Speaker 1: Well, yes, but the analogy that it draws is used

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to justify the imprisonment of anti war protesters. And if

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you go back to that series, there are three cases

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around that period. And it should be said, I'm not

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a fan of Oliver Wendelholmes and Buckley savaged him in

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National Reviews opening issue, but he did change his mind

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on this question, I think because he saw it as untenable.

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Around that period, in nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen twenty, the

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US Supreme Court upholds a whole host of grotesque imprisonments

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on free speech grounds, one of which involved the Wilson

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administration in prisoning Wilson's opponent, the socialist Eugene Debs. I mean,

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this is a really low moment. This is the low moment.

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I will shut up in a moment. But let me

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just say this. I talk a lot about free speech

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around the country, and I often note that there is

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a great paradox, which is that free speech in the

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United States is now more legally protected than it has

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been at any point in the Republic's history. The protections

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that the Supreme Court has afforded the citizenry under the

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auspices of the First Amendment have never been this good.

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At the same time as we have probably less cultural

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respect for free speech than we've had in a very

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long time. And when I run through the history of it,

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because we've always had attacks on free speech. The slavery

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powers were big into this in Congress and at the

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state level, abolitionists were often targeted. But the worst period,

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without a shadow of a doubts the progressive era. The

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progressive era is the nadea of free speech in the

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United States. And if there is one case that sums

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it up, it's this, because it takes an entirely sensible precept,

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which is you can't go into a crowded place and

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lie and cause a panic and be held innocent. Fine,

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it takes that and it applies it to core speech,

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and thank goodness, the Court in the nineteen sixties said, no,

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we're not doing that anymore.

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Speaker 3: Charlie, you're beautiful when you're angry, James.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing more to say at all. Is said what

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needs to be said, And I mean Wilson said this

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before about the need to combat misinformation, as so many

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people on that side of the political equation. They would

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like to use the instruments of the state to influence

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or prohibit social media from saying certain things that fall

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outside the parameters of what they believe to be the truth,

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even though we know now later with the years of

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experience with COVID, for example, the things that people were

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being banned for saying the hammer coming down on doctor J,

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turns out to be the other doctor J turns out

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to be correct pretty much, and their efforts to stifle

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it only led to the erosion of the respect and

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trust we had for those institutions. So yeah, no, let

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me speak, let the marketplace decide. Let people figure out

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whether or not what I'm saying is BS or not.

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That seems to be a basic core American principle. And

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anybody doesn't think that's the case, well then they're full

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of spinach. And to help with them. Second thing we

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have this week dodged a bullet when it comes to

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the strike. There was going to be the guys who

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offload the containers from the big ships were going to strike,

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and normally I don't think that would really penetrate most

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people's flow of information, except that we got these interviews

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with the guy the head of the union, who was

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sort of bragging about his ability to cripple the country,

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and it seems to be one of those things that

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doesn't strike you as the most patriotic of sentiments. As

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he climbers off his long yacht and tells us that

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we're all going to have no Christmas because the toys

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won't be coming. Luckily, it's not going to happen. They

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kick the can down the road. There's good and be

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more negotiations. But what was illustrative about this were two things. Biden, President,

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and I'm using air quotes here for President Biden because

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we have no idea exactly whether he's involved in any

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of these things or whether he's just being shuffled around

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from one bingo session to the next, said he wouldn't

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invoke TAP hardly, he doesn't believe in it. And then

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Governor DeSantis actually stepped in and directed the Florida National

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Guard and the Florida State Guard to the ports to

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ensure that things went as they should, which made a

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lot of people say, well, boy, you know kind of

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wish that guy had been the candidate, but that's not

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how it's going to work out. What do you guys

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think of how this plays out. The unions I don't

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think come off very sympathetic in this, particularly when it

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comes to automation. Now you know, we're all looking around

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our shoulders saying AI is going to come and eat

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our jobs. But if the people had had their way,

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there would be no automated systems that the at the

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ports at all. They would be taking everything out in

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a bucket brigade of hands. You can understand why they're

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making the statement that they are, But in the issue

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of keeping the ports modern and the rest of us,

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where do you fall on this or do you just

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not care?

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Speaker 3: I'll give you what's in my head. Not that I've

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come to any particularly incisive conclusions about this, but I

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start with, was it nineteen fifty four, maybe the Ilia

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Kazan movie on the Waterfront? Yes, because that shows the

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way shipping was handled in the United States before the

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advent of container shipping, or Eric Hoffer describes it a

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little bit in some of his work Eric Coffer, who

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was the term used to be Steve Ador. So if

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you have on your mind a picture of cargo nets

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coming up and big burly men walking back and forth

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and shouldering huge loads and carrying them from the pier

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up to the warehouse. That's the way it used to be.

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I suppose if this Union president had been in place

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in the nineteen seventies, we wouldn't have container shipping, which

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would of course solve all the problems with globalization because

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we wouldn't have we wouldn't have international trade to speak of.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're actually exactly right because that guy is

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part of the same union that opposed container shipping, and

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he's on the record.

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Speaker 2: Happens.

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Speaker 3: Is that so okay? Because then you know more about

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this than I.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, carry on. I'm just wanting to know

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you're totally right. It's not a hypothetical that actually happened.

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They tried to block container shipping right right.

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Speaker 3: So what's going on is, as far as I can tell,

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it's it's a version of the Hollywood Writers' strike. The

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writers see AI coming at them in this sense. Obviously,

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longshoremen and writers are different kinds of people, but the

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Hollywood writers saw AI coming at them. I myself couldn't

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quite get what they were so worked up about because

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I thought AI as a threat to writers was off

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in the distant future. And then a friend of mine

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who actually is in the produced director's guild. I guess yeah.

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The director's guild said oh no, no, no, And he

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sat down with me and said to AI, said to

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chatchebt or one of the others. Five minutes amusing Trump

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and Biden playing ping pong, and up popped a sketch

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that needed a little tightening up, but had four or

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five different jokes in a five minutes. In other words,

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writer's rooms are really under threat already. Okay, they see

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that coming. Likewise, the teamsters, excuse me, not the team stores.

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The longshoremen. Longshore people have they renamed the union, and

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they want to extract the sitting guys who know they're

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likely to be the last generation who can count on

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this work for a whole career as they head into retirement.

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They want to grab everything they can get. As far

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as I can tell, it's as simple as that. And

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on the other side, the shippers, the people the counter party,

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want to give them as little as possible, but for

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sure reserved to themselves to introduce automation as the robotics

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become smarter and smarter, empowered more and more by AI.

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So it's just a straightforward commercial conflict of interests and

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let him add it. As far as I can tell,

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what we saw last week was in an attempt to

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hold up the country's politics. That's and then of course

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it thinks largely to the New York Post, we found

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out that the president of the Union is a very

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rich man and a hypocrite in all kinds of ways. Anyhow,

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So my view is this is one more It's going

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to be difficult, this transition to AI and robotics, no

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doubt about it. But it's one more place where the

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government ought to stay out.

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Speaker 1: Charles, I think it's Proposter's rent seeking, is what I think.

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The same guy you're referring to is very rich, actually

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is in favor of mandating unionized toll booths, even though

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we've had easy passed since nineteen eighty seven. So he

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wants people in them who've stopped the cars and slow

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down the traffic. And it seems from the studies that

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I've read increasingly where they do exist, still do nothing

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other than pay for the pensions of the people who

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are slowing the cars down. So you're slowing the cars

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down to pay for the people who are slowing the

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cars down. The docs are not anymore a justifiable excuse

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for union tactics. I am and have always been hostile

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toward unions. But I was born in nineteen eighty four.

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My dad was born in nineteen forty seven. He really

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dislikes public sector unions because he lived through England in

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the seventies. But right, but he has always said to me,

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and will still say no, no, there is a good

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historical role in certain circumstances for unionization. And if you

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walk up our backstairs in their little house, you'll see

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photographs of my ancestors, some of whom were minors or

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worked in textile mills or what you will. And my

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dad said, it's a reasonable point. You know, if you

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were in a mine in nineteen hundred, you really wanted

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a union because it was dangerous work and you needed

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somebody to stand up for you. And I think that

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that's a fair point. But that's just not what's happening.

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What's happening here is they just want more money. They

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already make a lot of money, by the way, They

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already make about two hundred thousand dollars a year on average,

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so this is not some dangerous, low paid job. And

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they're trying to stand in the way of efficiency and

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to extort international trade so that they can line in

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their own pockets. And I think it's insane that this

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would even be debated. And if I were the president

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of the United States, which thankfully for everyone, I will

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never be, and I had the Taft Hearty Act on hand.

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Funny how Joe Biden believes in all sorts of laws

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haven't been passed, but not ones that have. I would

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use it in the national interest to stop this because

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I think that what they're doing is functionally indistinguishable from

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the mafia.

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Speaker 3: Lovely Lovely.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any more to add to that either.

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So that's two conclusive denunciations by Charles today, and we

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can only hope.

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Speaker 3: For a third or perhaps the pattern here as well established.

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James entertainingly puts the question, I attempt to provide a

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one on the one hand, on the other hand, analysis

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and then Charlie comes in with white hot anger beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll see if we're going to go for a

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third or maybe a ringing endorsement. Perhaps it all depends

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on where we go with our guest, who's Eli Lake.

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Eli's a columnist for the Free Press, contributing editor to

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Commentary and host of the re Education podcast Eli.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, welcome, Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: All right, so Middle East kaboom people were expecting actually

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an earth shadowing kaboom by now, they were expecting Israel

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to strike back at I mean, after October seventh, the

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Gaza response. Then you have hezbe Law shooting in to Israel.

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Then you have Israel taking on his bolah. Then you

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have Iran deciding to heave five percent of their missiles

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over I mean, so that's where we are now. It's

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not it's not of a piece. It's all part of

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a very very ongoing kinetic exercise and sorting things out

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over there. Anyway, So Iran through the missiles. Israel is

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expected to strike back, but people were saying were thinking

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that there were there would be some sort of immediate response.

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And the more the time goes on, there's only one

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of two things that can happen. Either one they're not

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going to do anything or to do something proportional, or

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two being very careful to plan. What is a definitive,

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definitive response that up ends the status quo for good?

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What do you think is going.

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Speaker 5: On well, I'm hoping in my sense, just looking at

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what Prime Minister that Y'aho has been saying, is that

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they are going for strategically changing the balance of power

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and not just a proportional response. And I think one

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explanation for why it hasn't happened yet is the Jewish

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New Year or Russia Shanna, you know that it's obviously Israel's.

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It's not a it's not a theolocacy or anything like that,

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but it is a Jewish state, and that might be

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one explanation. The other explanation is that I would hope

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that the one target that makes sense is what as

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much of Aron's nuclear program as possible, and that may

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not be just a matter of you know, bunker buster bombs.

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I mean, Israel is proving ingenious in its ability to

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sabotage and to kind of have these hybrid intelligence strikes.

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So my hope is that that is what's being you know,

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that is what is in the offering, and there might

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be some things that have to kind of happen, and

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it's not such a terrible thing for the Iranians to

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sort of be left in a state where they know

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something has come in they don't know what it is,

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you know, let them feel the anxiety he.

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Speaker 3: Lies true or faults on. As we tape this on Friday,

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October fourth, in the year twenty twenty four, be me Netnyah,

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who is the greatest man in the world?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he's Churchillian? At this point, I think, really, I mean,

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we have to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you couldn't ask for a more flawed man to

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be as great as he is. But he's changed the world,

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has he not? In the last three weeks?

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Speaker 5: I absolutely think he has. And I'll go I mean,

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I've criticized him in my columns over the years at times,

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but the real brilliance here from Nennyahu is that he

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has managed to withstand efforts from his greatest ally to

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try to unseat him from power into box them in.

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I mean that, you know, the the the congratulations goes

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to the genius of Israel's military, and it's most odd

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for the pager attack and the walkie talkies and and

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and the pinpoint accuracy of their strikes of not just

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assign Nosralla, but the next two successors of assign Asrala

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of the News out of Israel, Lebanon was right last night.

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That's something that you know that a nation state has

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built that capability. And so but it's it's Netanyahu's ability

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to navigate a really difficult situation with his most important ally,

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because if America chooses to, it can lead to it

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can kind of drop a diplomatic nuclear bomb on Israel.

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By no not behowing a resolution that you know from

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the Security Council that would really hurt and and and

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isolate Israel. So far Biden administration hasn't done that. That's good,

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but it's certainly you know, the messages from Biden himself,

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I don't know how with it he is at this moment.

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Is you know, why wouldn't he want Israel to attack

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the nuclear program? That's the that's the that's the crown

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jewel at this point.

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Speaker 3: As far as we know, at least as far as

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I've read, you follow this obviously followed hour by hour,

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But the number of casualties from the Iranian ballistic missile

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attack was as single digits, as I recall, it.

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Speaker 5: Was one Palestinian, like the last salvo from April. Okay,

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So the regime that claims to defend the honor of

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the Palaestinian people is so not only felt spectacular in

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their missile strikes, but they've managed to kill Palestinians. Congratulations.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, they demonstrated a willingness for the

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second time in a matter of months to fire ballistic

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missiles at Israel, and this time they demonstrated that they're

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capable of learning in a military sense, and that they

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clustered them the missiles much more tightly, I presume, in

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an effort to defeat the Iron Dome. And to that extent,

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they demonstrate a certain degree of seriousness and a certain

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degree of military prowess. And they did get a few

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of those missiles through, killing one person a Palestinian. What

401
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would have happened if they hit they hit an airbase?

402
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But okay, okay, So to take their.

403
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Speaker 5: Damage, they didn't do lasting damage. They didn't damage any

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serious infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: Had that missile been equipped with even a small nuclear weapon,

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what kind of destruction would.

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Speaker 5: We know to be the end of the state of

408
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Israel at beast? Okay.

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Speaker 3: So, in other words, what we have is a demonstration

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of a risk that is simply unacceptable. Correct, of course,

411
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obviously the.

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Speaker 5: Whole thing is unacceptable. But the reason why this is uh,

413
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keep thinking of like the Steve win what song when

414
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you see a chance take it is because the decapitation

415
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strikes on Hesbelah and the fact that this organization is

416
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really that was the loaded gun at Israel's temple right there.

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That meant that was the Iranian insurance policy. So the

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reason that you know Israel hadn't done this before through

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subterfuge or you know, an aerial campaign, is because if

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they did, there were two hundred thousand rockets, missiles pointing

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directly at Hipen Tel even Jerusalem now not so clear.

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Now it's like, you know, that's why they're going in

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and they're trying to remove that threat because and that's

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why I'm on as I think you know, that's why

425
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we're seeing the Supreme Leader, you know, showing up at

426
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the ridy services and delivering in some ridiculous speech.

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Speaker 3: So one more question, you Ela, before I hand it

428
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back to the remand you to James and Charlie. I

429
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have to believe that if we were in Israel right now,

430
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we would just feel so different approaching this holiday from

431
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the way the country has felt it any time since

432
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October seventh. Has it made any difference in New.

433
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Speaker 5: York, Well, I'm I'm in d C.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you're in Washington.

435
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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I'm in Washington. But I would say the

436
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people that I speak to and other my family, other Jews,

437
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i'd talk to Enti Aspara, everybody is it's I don't

438
00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:54,319
want to say cautiously optimistic. I think people are really

439
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optimistic in the long run, and they know that there

440
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are difficult days they had. But this is enormous and

441
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I don't think it just starts in September. September is

442
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where we begin to see it. The change came when Netanyahu,

443
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in my view, basically told the Biden administration to pound

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sand and sent the IDF into Rapha and managed to

445
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evacuate this a million people, which everybody said couldn't be done.

446
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And they were getting the IDF was getting and people

447
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they would say this, but people really weren't listening because

448
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it kind of tuned out. And you know, it's a war,

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you believe one side. But my understanding is that they

450
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pretty much degraded the Hamas military leadership at this point,

451
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and so they went from a terror army to an insurgency.

452
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But that is an enormous military accomplishment. And then you

453
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started seeing really precise hits in the summer with Senior

454
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Could's force Iranian people in Syria, in Lebanon, you started

455
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seeing very specific kind of targeting. And that's when I

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think the decision was made that they were not going

457
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to allow I wrote a column basically say they were

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not allow there. They were no long going to play

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along with the American hug because it came with handcuffs.

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And that's when Israel started kind of acting out and

461
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and and you know, listen, I mean there's there's a

462
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sort of bittersweet side of it. I'm a very patriotic American,

463
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and as much as I love Israel, it gives me

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no joy to say that American prestige is plummeted to

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the point where, you know, a really important ally in

466
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the Middle East just basically said go screw to the

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White House. But unfortunately, that's where very bad leadership has

468
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led us right now. That's why all of the efforts

469
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they keep saying de escalation, We don't want to become

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a regional war. It's been a regional war, dummies. I mean, sorry,

471
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excuse my prespiration, it is a regional war. And yeah,

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it's it's I don't understand. I really feel that there

473
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is a this is exposed a deeper problem than just

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you know, this white house, these advisors. I think there's

475
00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:59,559
a rot in our strategic class that we've over learned

476
00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:02,240
the lesson I guess of the Iraq war, and at

477
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,440
this point we forgot that the best way to end

478
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,599
the regional war is to have the good guys win it.

479
00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, Eli, it's just cookkit. Whether you

480
00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:21,200
were in any way shocked as I was by the

481
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:28,240
reactions to October seventh and the subsequent fighting, I clearly

482
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:34,839
am naive because I did not expect to see first

483
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,880
the wholesale abandonment from Progressive America of this house of

484
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:46,319
cards that they've built up, which sets of fence as

485
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,279
the highest sin. You know, we saw on college campuses

486
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:57,000
people shouting at Jewish students hus were the victims right.

487
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,400
The second, I did not expect this lazy use of

488
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,680
the word genocide to describe what is normal war and

489
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:09,680
defensive war at that And third, I did not expect

490
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,480
the Israeli caused to be abandoned quite as quickly as

491
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,880
it was by an international response that was at first sympathetic.

492
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,680
Was I just living in a bubble or are we

493
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,799
actually dealing here with something that is new.

494
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 5: I think it's a little bit of both. If you

495
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,160
look at like, there's an inherent problem in the idea

496
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,039
of I mean, we talk about the intersectionality, right, the

497
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:42,799
idea that you know, the struggle for gay and trans

498
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:45,559
Americans as infralinked with the struggle for Black Americans interact

499
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,160
with the struggle in their world, et cetera, et cetera.

500
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,319
And a big problem with intersectionality, to be perfectly blunt,

501
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,799
is that if you consider Islamophobia one of the great

502
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,039
hate that you're that is in your kind of you know,

503
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,240
pyramid of discriminations that you're against, then you have to

504
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:07,799
look at the fact that there are a lot of

505
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,519
very devout Muslims who are racists and sexist and homophobic,

506
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,240
and they've never been able to quite handle the dissonance there.

507
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:18,960
And there are all kinds of other problems. You go

508
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,160
back and you look at the history, say of the

509
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,400
Black Panthers, right, there's an enormous amount of misogyny in

510
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,240
that organization, and they did terrible things to people that

511
00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:29,519
they suspected of being informants to the FBI, and so

512
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,839
in some ways, this concept of intersectionality, it was always

513
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,720
a sham because it meant that you couldn't criticize certain

514
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:42,759
protected groups. And then the whole house of cards came

515
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:46,000
down because Jews, who would obviously be if you were

516
00:29:46,079 --> 00:29:48,920
thinking about this historically or in any kind of literate way,

517
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:51,680
would be part of your group of people, well, that

518
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,200
was the one group that was excluded, right, And so

519
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,240
at a certain point it reminded me a little bit

520
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,440
of like what happened in post war Europe. You had

521
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,960
both parties that steamrolled other liberal democratic parties because that

522
00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:05,359
was the one part of that was willing to use

523
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,039
violence and not play by basic rules of liberalism. And

524
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:11,480
that's what I think is kind of happened on campus

525
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:16,400
and among this intellectual class. And they, I think they're

526
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,960
shamed by it, but it's it's telling in some ways

527
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,680
that you're if you call them anti Semitic, they become

528
00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:24,319
very offended. They're like, no, no, no, we don't hate the Jews.

529
00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:26,799
We just hate the Jewish state and people who think

530
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,079
that it should exist, which is an absurdity because most

531
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,839
Jews obviously think it should exist. And when you say

532
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:34,000
you're an anti Zionist. Well, what does that mean? There

533
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:36,519
are you know, seven million Jews who live in Israel,

534
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:39,839
so what happens to them? But that this is and

535
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,720
so they're too. I think that this has been a

536
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:43,680
long time coming, but it was shocking to me as

537
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,200
well shocking coming from the international community. It was shocking.

538
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:52,240
And the genocide thing is absurd. I mean it's hardcore,

539
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,960
like Palestinian activists have set genocide for a long time,

540
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,960
but it was just taken up like overnight, and now

541
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,200
you have TNAG easy it's you know, joining in with it,

542
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,200
which I guess no one should be surprised about either.

543
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,960
This is you know, he steeped in this kind of ideology.

544
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,039
But you know, at this point, my view is like

545
00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:12,720
the only way out is through, and I'm glad that

546
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:15,160
I've been on the right. I think it's much harder

547
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,880
for Jews after October seventh, who kind of saw themselves

548
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,880
as being in good standing with the left, and they're saying, oh, well,

549
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,519
we were with you for me too, we were with

550
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:25,880
you for Black Lives Matter, and where were you for us?

551
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:28,519
And my views like, well, I could have told you,

552
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,799
but I don't want to play that game. I just

553
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,400
feel that the right is better equipped to kind of

554
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,279
deal with it because they've been making this critique for

555
00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:38,079
a longer time and we sort of understand what's happened.

556
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: Kingsley Aim has told Bob Conquest that when he published

557
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,279
his new edition, and after the fall of the Soviet Empire,

558
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,920
when he published his new edition of Harvest of Sorrow,

559
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,000
he should retitle it. I told you so, you fing idiots.

560
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:58,119
Speaker 5: I love Conquests and Quest book was the archives incredible?

561
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,519
Speaker 3: Just this could into a seminar in its own, but

562
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:04,599
just as a kind of mental experiment to show why

563
00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:08,119
the anti Zionism stuff is crazy. So here's the question,

564
00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:12,039
wouldn't we all be better off if somehow or other

565
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,119
the United States has just given the Jewish people Delaware?

566
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:19,319
Speaker 5: No what no, no.

567
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,839
Speaker 3: In other words, it's the notion that if if Jews

568
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,880
need a country of their own, why did it have

569
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,480
to be right in the middle of a hostile Arab populations.

570
00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:33,319
That's sort of desionist impulse I have.

571
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,559
Speaker 2: I've heard and this this may be just Brumer fact,

572
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:39,960
but that there actually is an ancestral connection to that

573
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,480
part of the world could be wrong more so than

574
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:47,759
Delaware or Rhode Island. No, yeah, yeah, yes, of course

575
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:50,599
the Jews would love Delaware because of their their their

576
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,640
money grubbing tactics would lead them to love a place

577
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:59,440
with liberal corporate incorporation Delaware. Why would they want Delaware? No?

578
00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:05,359
I mean that the create the idea somehow that that

579
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,480
they are a colonial imposition, that that a bunch of

580
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:11,720
white Europeans, all of a sudden, under the the the

581
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,240
the poisonous intellectual fumes of Hertzel decided all, let's just

582
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,480
go steal this land right there. It is absurd, the

583
00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:19,440
number of stud the amount of things that I've seen

584
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,359
paraded around on Twitter work. They're pointing to a manhole

585
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,240
cover that says Palestine, as if there's is proof that

586
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:28,640
a nation existed.

587
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: It's well, the British Empire gives them that fig leaf.

588
00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:35,640
Unfortunately it's not true. It's a bit like the Second

589
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,039
Amendments saying the word regulated in it is. It didn't

590
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:39,680
mean that at all, but people point to it and

591
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,400
they go a haa, it says regulated. Well, so there's

592
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,440
all these quotes from British imperialists and they think, well,

593
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,160
I'm an anti imperialist and so that must be bad

594
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,200
and it's just but that that was sort of part

595
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:50,720
of my question.

596
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: Eli was, well, there's so much.

597
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: Nonsense that has been latched onto by people who should

598
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,640
know better, and I've been shocked.

599
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 5: By It's it's shocking. I'm in the middle actually finishing

600
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,480
a script right now titled one hundred Year Into Fada

601
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:07,240
for my next podcast, and it's basically about the history

602
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,000
of Palestinian nationalism and Palstin. It wasn't like there was

603
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:13,119
this land of Palestine and the British came and conquered

604
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:14,480
it and then gave it to the Jews, which is

605
00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:17,679
the simplistic and false story that is told by anti Zionists.

606
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,760
It was a possession of the Ottoman Empire, quite cruelly,

607
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,559
i should say, by various pajas. The British then acquire

608
00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:27,159
it at the end of World War One because the

609
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,199
Ottoman Empire has collapsed. So they are there with the

610
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,280
remit from at the time the League of Nations to

611
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,039
create a Jewish homeland. Because lots of people believe that,

612
00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,199
and there was at one point in the maybe you

613
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,320
could say the first two or three decades of the

614
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,400
twentieth century, there were Palisity and leaders who got along

615
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,320
very well with the early Zionist leaders, but it really

616
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,719
was the rise of a British invention. A guy by

617
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,800
the name of Paja Minal Hussein even was the first

618
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,960
Palestinian leader, but the British made this Grand Buffy. They

619
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,199
created a position for him in Jerusalem, and he became

620
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,760
the kind of recognized world leader. And he did not

621
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,119
have a vision really to create an independent He called

622
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:13,199
for independent Palestine in the thirties, but what he really

623
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:17,559
was focused on was driving the Jews out and stopping

624
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:24,159
immigration of Jews into you know, the Palestinian mandate during

625
00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:26,239
the rise of the Nazis, which eventually, of course, those

626
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,920
of us who know our history age I mean almost.

627
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,280
And he really liked Adolf Butler and joined their cause

628
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,360
in World War Two, much to the shame and of

629
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,559
Palestinians today, which they've totally forgotten him. But that's the

630
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:42,000
history of Palestinian nationalism. It is not a very nice history.

631
00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:46,800
And we can play this. I love historical counterfactuals. What

632
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,199
if the British had not appointed this guy, who by

633
00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:53,239
the way, already shown that he was a vicious anti

634
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,840
Semite when they made him the Grand Mufty, he was

635
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,679
the leader of what was known as the Nephew Lussa

636
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,639
Riots of Jerusalem in nineteen twenty What if they had

637
00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:03,519
not appointed him, What if they had not done that?

638
00:36:03,679 --> 00:36:06,519
And it gets back to a problem with that America

639
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,599
has inherited from the British Empire, which is a belief

640
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:15,119
that the more violent a local leader is, the more

641
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:18,800
extreme a local leader is, the more authentic they are,

642
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,559
and which demands that the great power has to sort

643
00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:26,000
of accommodate them and bring them inside of the tent.

644
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:28,639
And this is seen as a great strategy. The British

645
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:32,079
did this all the time, and oftentimes they ended up

646
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:36,480
kind of empowering really violent monsters. Not all the time,

647
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,679
but a lot of the time. And this was certainly

648
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,239
the case when it came to the policy Threndy and

649
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,280
I would argue was the case in the nineteen nineties

650
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,880
when the United States embraced Yaser era fat as a

651
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,639
sort of peace partner. And I have to say, as

652
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,679
much as I appreciate the initial policy from the United

653
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,760
States after October seventh, the speech that Biden gave in

654
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,920
Israel was really to be commended, but I think that

655
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,400
the way it was going with his constant, incessant droning

656
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,360
on of a ceasefire discussion, when every single time Hamas

657
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,800
wasn't even participating in the talks. It would have ended

658
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,239
up with some representative of Hamas, possibly even Yahwa Sinemar,

659
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,599
being elevated as a peace partner, and we would have

660
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:23,760
another round of these kinds of negotiations. And it's like

661
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,880
enough already. Sometimes you have an enemy that is implacable

662
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:29,320
and it is good for the world, and it advances

663
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,440
the cause of peace to utterly defeat them, and that's

664
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,960
what Israel is doing. That's why, in my view, he

665
00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:37,840
is Churchillian and unlike Churchill, although I mean, obviously nobody

666
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,920
touches Churchill. I'm a huge fan obviously, But unlike Churchill,

667
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:46,639
he didn't have an American partner like FDR or Truman.

668
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,239
He adds Joe freakin' Biden, you know what I mean,

669
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,519
He's got He's got a Chamberlain in Washington. So it's

670
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:55,920
really that's the part of it that really I think

671
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,400
history will judge him so well.

672
00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:02,199
Speaker 3: He back to American politics from more, Yeah, does all

673
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,599
this lead to cognitive dissidents among American Jews who have

674
00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:09,440
been for so many decades such firm supporters of the

675
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,880
Democratic Party. Is that all we get a little discomfort?

676
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,960
Is or at the other extreme, is there a serious

677
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,159
realignment going on if you go by age, Is it

678
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,079
the case that older jewsers are more Democratic and younger

679
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,159
more open to Republicans supporting Republicans? Or I mean, what

680
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:29,760
are the political repercussions?

681
00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:34,159
Speaker 5: I mean, this is talk about counterfactual. Imagine if the

682
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:38,079
Republicans have nominated Nikki Haley, how many I think you

683
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:40,679
would have a majority of Jews voting Republicans. I think

684
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,039
the problem is is that even though I believe that

685
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:47,880
Trump's policies were very good for Israel, and I don't

686
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:55,079
really think that that's debatable, his rhetoric, his indiscipline.

687
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 3: Just can't stomach him.

688
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,559
Speaker 5: It's not even that you can't stomach him. He has

689
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:02,000
said incredibly anti s things, even though I believe he

690
00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:05,599
would be much better for Israel and therefore the Jewish

691
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:09,239
people than Kamala Harris. But he can't help himself but

692
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,440
saying ridiculous things like if I lose, I'm gonna blame

693
00:39:12,519 --> 00:39:14,280
American Jews. What the hell is that?

694
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: So?

695
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:21,079
Speaker 5: I just don't know, you know, in my own family.

696
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:24,239
There is a sense that there. I think the way

697
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,199
this is how I interpreted this is not scientific. I

698
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,840
think almost every Jew understands there is a faction of

699
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,679
the repult of the Democratic Party that are highly educated

700
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,440
anti Semites, and they're a real problem, and they are

701
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,719
a problem in big institutions. They're a problem in the

702
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,840
institutions that a lot of American Jews care a great

703
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,840
deal about, like universities or published houses, and boy, it

704
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,760
would be nice to have a Republican Party that also

705
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,960
didn't have an element at least that sometimes catered to

706
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,719
a different kind of anti Semitism, kind of like know

707
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,800
nothing anti semitism, the sort of anti semitism of you know,

708
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,400
ranks in their basement. But in my view, at least

709
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,440
the elites of the Republican Party, the policy makers of

710
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,599
the Republican Party, have their head screwed on straight. And

711
00:40:13,679 --> 00:40:16,559
I have questions thought about every and there are plenty

712
00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:17,880
of very good and there plenty of Jews in the

713
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,760
Democratic Party. We should say that, but it's the fact

714
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,360
that are you trying to have a coalition with at

715
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,920
least a faction of people that want to see the

716
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,239
only Jewish state in the world destroyed, and that is

717
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,280
the Democratic Party today.

718
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: There's also a coalition on the far right that I

719
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,280
wouldn't characterize them as no nothing anti Samites. They're actually

720
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,239
they think they know something and they're not just the

721
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,360
you know, you're not just drooling morons who are out

722
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,159
there talking about the views and coming up with crude memes.

723
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:50,360
I find this stuff infesting my Twitter feed all the time.

724
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,199
There will be a discussion, for example, on Great Replacement,

725
00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:57,199
which itself is a fraud issue, but I think it's

726
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,559
one that we had to discuss and tease out what's

727
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:01,480
true about it and what's wrong about it, and what's

728
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:05,840
idiotic and what actually is worrisome and look at the demographics.

729
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,679
It's a discussion to have. But the other day, just

730
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,039
this morning, when I was following a Twitter thread, what

731
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:14,320
followed after the main point that the person was making,

732
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,880
and it had to do with imagery in European public

733
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,119
service messages, we'll set that aside for a second. The

734
00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:25,599
person posted a whole series of comments and remarks about

735
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:29,639
the white race, its need for destruction, the need for

736
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:32,559
a genocide, and every single one of them was Jewish.

737
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:35,119
And it was pointed out that every single one of

738
00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:37,880
them was Jewish. So you will have people on that

739
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:41,480
sort of intellectual just speaking the truth here, just you

740
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,199
know who will gleefully embrace and lean into the worst

741
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:51,599
sort of anti Semitism. And that's worrisome. But it isn't

742
00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:56,360
as characteristic of the right as the anti Zionist stuff

743
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,960
is of the progressive elements of the left. And that

744
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,400
would seem to me to be bobbyous to me, to

745
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,880
anybody who's looking at this situation. But you know, I

746
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:05,199
don't know.

747
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 5: This is how I look at it. If you say

748
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,480
I'm a fan of the great replacement theory and you

749
00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:15,480
have a position of some kind of authority, again at

750
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,920
a university or a media outlet, you might fire that

751
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:23,079
you that's a fireable offense. If you say I don't

752
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:26,320
think the Israel should exist and it's committing a genocide,

753
00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:30,840
then you are just mouthing conventional wisdom in the most

754
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:35,039
institution that is true, because it's a different kind of threat.

755
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,199
It's like again, it's the threat of you know, I mean, listen,

756
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,800
I understand, I don't want to you know, like I'm

757
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,800
not trying to say, I'm sure what is the name

758
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,119
martyr made the people's historian who doesn't think Churchill, who

759
00:42:48,119 --> 00:42:51,440
thinks Churchill's a villain, that moron. Okay, I'm sure he

760
00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:53,599
has some sort of level of intelligence where he's able

761
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:56,440
to read quickly or whatever it is. But I'm not

762
00:42:56,519 --> 00:43:01,000
worried about that guy taking over Princeton University history department.

763
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:05,119
But there are people on the left who have just

764
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:10,840
as lunatic views of history and are themselves like very

765
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,880
serious ideologues masquerading as academics, who have already taken over

766
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,440
these institutions. So it's a different kind of a threat.

767
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,039
And the waere politics are now is that Trump is

768
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:25,320
the populist, he is the you know he channels, He's

769
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,480
the tribune of a kind of rage at a system

770
00:43:28,559 --> 00:43:31,800
that I think is totally fair to say is often unfair.

771
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:35,039
It is unfair, and how it actually a junicates what

772
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:38,639
isn't isn't racism, So it's this is a complicated question,

773
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,079
and unfortunately it feels like both sides have different kinds

774
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:48,239
of threats to Jewish people in this country. So it's bad.

775
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: Eli. One last question before we let you go. You're

776
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,119
always wearing some good band T shirt. Could you stand

777
00:43:53,199 --> 00:43:55,199
up a little one? So we can see what this is.

778
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 5: Get the reference.

779
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,039
Speaker 2: It's a nod that goes up to eleven. It's spinal

780
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:04,400
tab very very very good, which is a reminder that

781
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:04,960
I should have.

782
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 5: By the way, if I know Charlie was here, I

783
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:09,679
have a great T shirt that's just John and Yoko.

784
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: Ah, just to upset me on this shore.

785
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: Yes, well, we'll get onto the lyrical profundancy profundities of

786
00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:20,239
Imagine after you've left.

787
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,519
Speaker 5: But oh no, I hate Imagine. But that album is

788
00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:29,000
superb and I think Imagine is a completely overrated, terrible anthem.

789
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,239
But I found out is incredible.

790
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: Out there, I suppose. But I regard anything that Yoko

791
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,119
is involved in as as I don't know. It's just

792
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,840
it's it's like adding a dash of aromatic bidders too.

793
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:45,519
Speaker 5: John's very unhappy before he met Yoko. She really gave

794
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:47,400
him happiness, you know what I mean.

795
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,039
Speaker 2: That's very nice for a millionaire heroin attic. But I

796
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,519
don't really have to pay attention to his to his

797
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,199
music for that anyway. Well, the Beatles. The Beatles with

798
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,519
Eli Lak is another show that we'll do down the road.

799
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:04,280
In the meantime, we keep our powder dry and we

800
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,679
wait for the inevitable response, and perhaps we'll speak to

801
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:08,320
you after that.

802
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 5: Shallow Shalloon.

803
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:16,559
Speaker 2: Thanks the ELI next year in Jerusalem. So the last

804
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:21,039
thing before we go here and you is that getting

805
00:45:21,039 --> 00:45:23,599
to the hurricane. And again, this is one of those

806
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:25,559
things where if you get most of your news from

807
00:45:25,559 --> 00:45:28,159
social media, and I don't mean Instagram, and I don't

808
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:33,000
mean TikTok, I mean from I'm going to say X,

809
00:45:33,039 --> 00:45:35,000
aren't I. I'm going to give in at some point

810
00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:38,480
and just say X. But I'm at knowing it's Twitter.

811
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:41,679
It's Twitter. It's always going to be Twitter. They will

812
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,320
call it something else my entire life, but it'll be

813
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,199
Twitter anyway.

814
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,519
Speaker 3: If you get in very strange hills to die on, James,

815
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:50,519
that's all I can say.

816
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,679
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry, but I X is a stupid name.

817
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,559
X means nothing. Twitter is the historical name of it,

818
00:45:57,639 --> 00:45:59,199
that sums up all of.

819
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: What Man paid forty four billion dollars for it. He

820
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,840
saved freedom of speech. He can call it what he wants,

821
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:07,800
and he has.

822
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:10,039
Speaker 2: I just don't have to go along with it, That's

823
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:11,599
all I'm saying. I don't.

824
00:46:11,679 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: I find it hard to I can't call them the

825
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,639
Cleveland Guardians, and I can't call them the Washington Commanders,

826
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,280
and I can't call it act just it's it's not

827
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,559
even a principle. I just feel odd doing it, a

828
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:25,480
bit like if I started to say Yule, I would

829
00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:26,159
just sound weird.

830
00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: You would don't so you'd like me affecting a britishism,

831
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,239
which I won't. But the Guardians, the Cleveland Guardians, though,

832
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,639
I think they're named after statues on a bridge. I

833
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,280
think I think there's the interest, yeah, which is an

834
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,599
interesting thing. So they might be the only football team

835
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:43,079
named after statues.

836
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: I don't say I see that.

837
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,559
Speaker 2: I'm with you, Jennyway on Twitter. The conversations about the

838
00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:52,400
female response in the and the Appalachians has been remarkable,

839
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,559
And some of these stories you just have to cock

840
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,840
a skeptical Scott Spock like eyebrow because too many priors confirmed.

841
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,159
But then when the legitimate news organization start running with

842
00:47:03,199 --> 00:47:05,039
the story of helicopter pilots who are told no, you

843
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:07,639
can't go up there, you can't go save those people,

844
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,760
and then you have other people talking about FEMA coming

845
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,079
in and taking some of the supplies, supposedly so they

846
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:15,239
can do a better job of coordinating the distribution and

847
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,840
the rest of it. You think that perhaps the organizations

848
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,960
responsible for going in and fixing things are finding themselves

849
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,079
flat footed because they a. Not very good at it

850
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:26,719
and b don't want to be shown up by people

851
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,960
who do. You would think that this would be one

852
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,719
of those stories like you see in a movie or

853
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,679
a television show where you've got some Tommy Lee Jones

854
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,199
character who arrives on the scene, parachutes in comes in

855
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,920
in a helicopter, and immediately snaps everybody into one coordinated

856
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,880
effort that solves everything. But no, and it makes you

857
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,519
wonder if FEMA, which we'll all recall, of course Martin

858
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,920
Lando telling Molder in the first X Files movie, was

859
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,920
the secret government that actually controlled things. Wonderful moment that

860
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,039
shows you how deep the paranoid and stupidity of nineties

861
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,039
was FEMA. The shadow government that FEMA may join the

862
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,519
other institutions in which we have lost a tremendous amount

863
00:48:06,519 --> 00:48:10,280
of respect, because well, they've been more interested in handing

864
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,199
out hotel coupons to people don't ought not to be

865
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,559
here than figuring out what they ought to do when

866
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:17,559
something like this strikes or am I wrong?

867
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 3: No, no, no, there's no I mean, there's no doubt

868
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,920
we can't. The federal government cannot control the border. The

869
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,719
Secret Service cannot ensure the physical safety of a former

870
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:33,039
president and now presidential candidate. Israel can hit back at

871
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:37,639
the who theis, but the United States Navy it cannot.

872
00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:42,280
Why should we even expect FEMA to prove even minimally competent.

873
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,639
The failure of the federal government and agency after agency

874
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,119
after agency is comprehensive, and.

875
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:50,519
Speaker 2: None of these are a failure of ability. It's a

876
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:53,400
failure of will. It's not because we can't actly things.

877
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,800
It's just that we decided not to, and that decision

878
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,880
not to becomes this paralyzing venom that seems to just

879
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,400
cause everything to lock up.

880
00:49:04,679 --> 00:49:10,199
Speaker 1: The Jarman Well, I am impressed by a man who

881
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,960
I've seen described as president of the Southeast Rondo Centers,

882
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:17,559
who I think has shown the way. This is one

883
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,039
thing Florida is very good at. Had to get very

884
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:22,840
good at it. And when you have to get very

885
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,119
good at something, you do as the British learned in

886
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,920
nineteen thirty nine, nineteen forty and I think that FEMA

887
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,480
is really not set up in quite the same way

888
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,719
because it's less important to the people who run it.

889
00:49:41,159 --> 00:49:43,760
And that's one reason I'm a free market here, and

890
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,960
it's one reason I'm a federalist is I think people

891
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:51,000
who have money in the game or affected themselves tend

892
00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:53,960
to do things better. And I just cannot see a

893
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:57,400
better example of it than the difference between the responses

894
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,920
from the states in North Caro, Liner in Virginia and

895
00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:05,960
Florida here and Florida has sent National Garden State God

896
00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:10,519
troops to help, and FEMA. Of course, because the president's

897
00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:12,199
a Democrat, we hear a lot less about it. We

898
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,559
don't get the calumny that we've got against George W. Bush,

899
00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:20,760
which is desperately unfair. But what matter is most of

900
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,360
the people who have been affected is whether or not

901
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,079
they're getting help, and if they are, it's likely to

902
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:28,280
have a state emblem on it rather than a FEMA logo.

903
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:30,519
Speaker 2: I think one of the reasons that Bush got more

904
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:34,280
trouble than Harris is getting today, aside from, of course,

905
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,440
the natural leaning aspect of the people covering the event,

906
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,079
is that you had New Orleans, you had a concentrated

907
00:50:41,159 --> 00:50:45,519
example of human misery. This to the people, perhaps in

908
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:47,599
the medium, perhaps in the government just seems sort of

909
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,360
like a spread out area of the country where for

910
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,519
all they know it's done. But jet clampet shooting, it's

911
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:54,079
some food and it doesn't really going on there, and

912
00:50:54,079 --> 00:50:56,320
it's kind of hard to wrap your brain around. There's

913
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,119
a road out, there's a town gone. It's not the

914
00:50:59,199 --> 00:51:02,320
same as having the you know, the New Orleans Dome

915
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,000
up to its gun whales and water, or seeing blocks

916
00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:09,960
and blocks of flooded school buses. It's just there's there's

917
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,719
no visual thing that they can quite get their hands

918
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,599
on or their eyes on their hook. It doesn't explain

919
00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:18,840
why the coverage has been what. It doesn't justify where

920
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,079
the coverage has been what it is. But I don't know.

921
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:25,920
I find appalling things in my Twitter feed with photographs

922
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,519
and stories and the rest of it, the occasional AI

923
00:51:28,599 --> 00:51:32,599
photo designed to get clicks, yes, but appalling things. And

924
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,559
then when I go to my main news sources, I

925
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,079
get dribs and drabs and it seems to be all

926
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:39,360
over and we've moved on to something else, just like

927
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:41,360
I mean, I'm looking at the news and it's just

928
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,119
like we've moved on beyond the Iranian attack on Israel.

929
00:51:44,199 --> 00:51:47,800
Already we've moved on this desperate need to keep moving on.

930
00:51:48,679 --> 00:51:55,280
As a last question, why is that? Is it because

931
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,599
you know the things aren't going well, and a general

932
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,519
sense of things not going well is not helpful towards

933
00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:10,360
the general project of electing his historical presidential candidate and

934
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,559
taking that box. I think that's part of it. I

935
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:15,840
that's a lot of it.

936
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,159
Speaker 1: I think it's almost all of it. And I would

937
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,559
just note that we don't move on when not moving

938
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:29,480
on is useful to the press's broader political projects. The

939
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:35,320
assassination attempt, the first one on Donald Trump, disappeared quite quickly.

940
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,079
Speaker 3: That was not helpful. The killing of.

941
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: George Floyd lasted an entire summer. And that's because one

942
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:51,360
allowed the advancement of a negative narrative in the eyes

943
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,920
of those who control our newsrooms, and the other a

944
00:52:56,039 --> 00:53:02,679
positive narrative. And I think this is a huge problem

945
00:53:03,559 --> 00:53:10,000
in this country that massively skews our political conversations.

946
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 3: Does it ever? Speaking of not moving on, Jack Smith

947
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,519
is given permission to really or releases I don't know.

948
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,320
The judge Chuck whatever, releases the new indictment against Donald Trump,

949
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,320
and the New York Times uncovering it. I give them

950
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,039
this much. They put it in the very first paragraph

951
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:33,199
that it contains no new information. Now no real I'm paraphrasing,

952
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:38,119
no new charges, no new information, but richness of detail

953
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:43,719
and texture. In other words, there's nothing new here. They've

954
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:48,280
just padded it out with some additional anecdotes, and the

955
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,320
New York Times, literally years after the event, now puts

956
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,480
this on the front page, and it will be there.

957
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,559
I'm sure that I haven't looked again today. I'm sure

958
00:53:56,599 --> 00:53:59,199
there are follow on stories. This will go on for

959
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:01,199
between them on the election, for sure.

960
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:02,039
Speaker 2: For sure.

961
00:54:03,079 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 3: I think it isn't not that it isn't an important

962
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,239
event that needs to be taught, blah blah blah blah,

963
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,360
but if you put it in the moving on category,

964
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:11,480
it's time.

965
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,599
Speaker 2: I think at this point it strikes the public imagination

966
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,800
as Jim Garrison coming up with some more charges to

967
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,079
file against somebody in New Orleans about the Kennedy assassination,

968
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:23,639
or strikes them as interesting as Lenny Bruce sitting on

969
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,239
his stool at the end of his career and reading

970
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,239
the Warren Commission report. I just your eyes glaze over.

971
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,679
He becomes added to it. It's like, yeah, he's a crook,

972
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,480
he's a criminal, again and again and again. I get

973
00:54:32,599 --> 00:54:35,000
I get it, I get it, I get it. I

974
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:37,920
don't care. Is what most is what the people uh

975
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:39,639
in Trump's corner will say, And I don't think it

976
00:54:39,679 --> 00:54:41,800
persuades the people in the middle. I think what persuades

977
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:46,960
them are arguments such as VANCE made about the policies

978
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:49,360
that they would enact, or as we said a couple

979
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,840
of weeks ago, the policies that they wouldn't. I don't

980
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,000
think people are worried so much about what Donald Trump

981
00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:00,199
would do as concerned that, you know, he wouldn't do

982
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:03,519
things about what am I trying to say here? Let

983
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:06,079
me let me rewind that and be more coherent. People

984
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:07,800
aren't worried about what Donald Trump was going to do.

985
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,440
They're just happy that he won't be doing the things

986
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,280
they expect from Maharis and Walts administration.

987
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:15,280
Speaker 3: Exactly. You put that beautifully. What was it last week, James?

988
00:55:15,639 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 2: I did, and then I said, inexpertly and tumbletongue today.

989
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: Stumbletongue today because I haven't had enough stillating five hundred,

990
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,960
So could I post one one last question myself here?

991
00:55:27,559 --> 00:55:29,559
And it is this What do you two make of

992
00:55:29,639 --> 00:55:37,000
the polls? They just don't seem to move. Donald Trump

993
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:40,599
has a very bad debate performance in any way you'd

994
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:44,119
care to score it. She seemed more coherent, calmer, so forth,

995
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,440
and she got maybe half a point benefit out of that.

996
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,480
Vance has a terrific debate performance. Doesn't seem to be

997
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,760
showing up in the polls. She seems to be retaining

998
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,559
I'm looking. I look every day at the real clear average.

999
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,960
She seems to be retaining a national lead of about

1000
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:07,599
two percent, and in the battleground states, he seems to

1001
00:56:07,679 --> 00:56:11,920
be maintaining his lead in several including an Arizona. It

1002
00:56:12,159 --> 00:56:17,119
just is this very to me, very strange sense of stasis.

1003
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,639
Speaker 2: Well, Hillary was going to win two. I believe a

1004
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,480
lot of the polls said, I don't know anyway, Charles,

1005
00:56:26,519 --> 00:56:30,119
go ahead, I am I'm not. I'm not a poll watchers.

1006
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,320
Polls annoy me. They just do. I'm annoyed that I

1007
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,719
have to keep up with them. I annoyed that I

1008
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,440
have to parse them. I'm annoyed that I have to

1009
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:40,079
keep them in my head. It's my failing, But I

1010
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:43,360
just I'm bored with poles polls. They have allergies to them.

1011
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,119
Speaker 1: Charles, go ahead, Well, I have a theory that makes

1012
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:48,440
people very cross when I say it, and I'm sure

1013
00:56:48,599 --> 00:56:52,800
expressing it here will yield more angry emails and charges

1014
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,880
of squishiness and elite detachment. But I nevertheless think that

1015
00:56:58,079 --> 00:57:00,360
I might be onto something I don't. I think the

1016
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,760
American public particularly cares about the selection. That is not

1017
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,119
the same thing as saying that people aren't hurting, there

1018
00:57:06,119 --> 00:57:08,599
aren't real issues. It's not the same thing as saying

1019
00:57:08,639 --> 00:57:11,119
that the election doesn't matter. I think there is a

1020
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:15,159
disconnect between how much people who work in politics and

1021
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,239
think about politics all the time and volunteer in politics

1022
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,679
care about this election, and how much people who are

1023
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:25,280
living normal lives who only start thinking about such things

1024
00:57:25,559 --> 00:57:28,880
in late October care about this election. And I think

1025
00:57:29,039 --> 00:57:31,760
that the reason for that is in part because both

1026
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,360
candidates are god awful. People are tired of Trump, even

1027
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,719
if they like it, They're tired of Trump. People do

1028
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,039
not like Carl Harris or know who she is, or

1029
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:47,239
find any inspiration or joy in her candidacy. And although

1030
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:50,679
there are a lot of people hurting and the world

1031
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,599
is on fire, in many ways, assay historical matter please

1032
00:57:54,639 --> 00:57:56,400
don't write to me and saying I'm saying this because

1033
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,599
I'm some super rich guy living in a scrooge McDuck castle.

1034
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,800
I say, historical matter. Relative to where we were in,

1035
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,840
say two thousand and nine, or where we were in

1036
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:10,000
say nineteen eighty, or where we were in say nineteen

1037
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:13,880
thirty two, America is still pretty rich and prosperous. And

1038
00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:16,719
because of that, people are not out on the streets

1039
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,000
waving signs. And I think that the election is just

1040
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,000
not looming large in the imaginations of the public in

1041
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:28,039
the way that those on both sides think that it should.

1042
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:31,320
And I think that's why the polls are hovering at

1043
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,599
around fifty to fifty, because we're a fifty to fifty nation.

1044
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:39,440
People have removed themselves back into their usual political, partisan

1045
00:58:39,559 --> 00:58:43,920
and ideological postures. And maybe something will break that down

1046
00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:46,239
in the end, but maybe it won't, and we're going

1047
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,280
to get the closest election since two thousand.

1048
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 6: Now, go jump in your golf cart and drive off

1049
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,159
to the course, your tail finned golf court golf cart,

1050
00:58:56,239 --> 00:58:59,239
no doubt, no, this little am radio set to an

1051
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:00,000
all Elvis done.

1052
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,719
Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think that's the uh that's

1053
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,719
the most insightful thing I've heard in the last hour.

1054
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,480
And you know that's with Eli and Peters. So you

1055
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:12,760
got two screeds out of Charlie and then a third

1056
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,400
one which I wouldn't say was screedy, but it certainly was.

1057
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,519
Speaker 3: That was pretty screedy. That was pretty screedy. I think

1058
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:19,920
Screen Adjacent.

1059
00:59:20,039 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 6: Seen has greenish elements of a philipic but but it

1060
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,760
also had anyway.

1061
00:59:28,039 --> 00:59:30,119
Speaker 2: So we are moving along, we are going away. We'll

1062
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:32,360
be back next week, of course with podcast number seven twelve.

1063
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,280
We'll be back all through the election and beyond. Because

1064
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,119
we're ricochet dot com. I'm not going anywhere. And you

1065
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,840
if you haven't been there yet, if you've been listening

1066
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,639
to me talk for seven and eleven episodes, I don't

1067
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:45,760
know what's going to do to take you to go

1068
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:47,440
to ricochet dot com. But once you do, you'll be

1069
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,440
happy because you will find the place you've been looking

1070
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,360
for all these years on the internet, same civil mostly

1071
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:56,119
center right com, mostly center right conversation. It's a great place.

1072
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,199
I love it. I'm there every day. I'm there five

1073
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,159
six times a day checking it. We just I had

1074
01:00:00,159 --> 01:00:03,760
a great conversation with one with Gary McVeigh about what

1075
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,519
are you thinking, oh, about demographic shifts in the Southwest,

1076
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:12,840
about increasing trade problems with Canada, about immigration in southern

1077
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:16,119
Now we're talking about Sergeant Bilko. Phil Silver Is a

1078
01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:19,159
great movie he made, and how that inevitably wound into

1079
01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:22,119
a conversation about television and mid century culture and it

1080
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,440
was just great. It was so Ricochet and it's waiting

1081
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,199
for you. So go there, sign up and join the

1082
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,239
member feed and give us those five stars at Apple

1083
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:35,880
Podcast if you don't mind. And I can't think of

1084
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,320
anything else except we'll see you in the comments at

1085
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:39,960
Ricochet four point oh Next.

1086
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:50,119
Speaker 3: Week, guys, next week, boys, Ricochet join the conversation