Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Constance Radio.
Speaker 2: Thank you Dan Harkins. You know, on Nightside, one of
Speaker 2: the things we like to try to do is make
Speaker 2: people think. I don't especially care what you think, meaning
Speaker 2: whether you like that candidate or don't like that candidate,
Speaker 2: or favor this issue or oppose that issue, It doesn't
Speaker 2: matter to me. I just want people who think and
Speaker 2: whatever the conclusion comes, whatever conclusion you come to, hopefully
Speaker 2: it comes to some thought. So that's what we talk about.
Speaker 2: I'm the voice of reason and I want people to think.
Speaker 2: And this next guest, I think is going to make
Speaker 2: all of us think quite a bit. Massachusetts as a
Speaker 2: state has a lot of natural resources. We have a
Speaker 2: lot of economic resources, great universities, great colleges, pretty good
Speaker 2: road system, we have MBTA, we have a major airport,
Speaker 2: but we have various industries. We have you know, the
Speaker 2: beauty of Cape Corn in the summertime, the beauty of
Speaker 2: the Berkshires and the fall and winter, and we have
Speaker 2: so much going for us in this state of six
Speaker 2: point seven million people. But we are in a state
Speaker 2: that is in big trouble. That's big trouble with a
Speaker 2: capital B and a Capital t and to talk about
Speaker 2: that is my next guest, Aiden Enwright. Aiden works with
Speaker 2: the Pioneer Institute, which is a think tank here in Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: and he has just written a very interesting study about
Speaker 2: the Massachusetts the amount of out migration that is occurring
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts and the implications thereof. So let me first
Speaker 2: of all, welcome Aiden, Aiden Enwright, first time here night side.
Speaker 2: Thanks very much for joining us tonight. Whenever we think
Speaker 2: about a think tank, we think about, oh boy, this
Speaker 2: must be something that's very difficult to comprehend, but it's
Speaker 2: really not, and this is an amazing report that has
Speaker 2: just been released. First of all, explain to us what
Speaker 2: the phrase out migration means. We're not talking about like
Speaker 2: the migration of the swallows to Capistrano or the migration
Speaker 2: of the sharks away from the cape heading south once
Speaker 2: the water starts to cool up, you know, get really
Speaker 2: cold out there. What's what's economic out migration mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, good evening.
Speaker 2: I thought for a moment we had lost it before
Speaker 2: we started there, and I'm sorry, go ahead, welcome, I'm.
Speaker 3: Sorry about that. So when we talk about out migration,
Speaker 3: we're talking about residents picking up their roots and leaving
Speaker 3: the state, And there's obviously a lot of reasons that
Speaker 3: someone might do that. And like you said, Master'stts is
Speaker 3: a great state for a lot of different reasons. We
Speaker 3: have great jobs, we have a lot of economic opportunities,
Speaker 3: we have the Berkshires, wonderful natural resources. But there are
Speaker 3: also a lot of issues that are affecting everyday people.
Speaker 3: The cost of living here, the cost of housing, taxes
Speaker 3: that are pushing people out of the state, and they're
Speaker 3: deciding to locate elsewhere that's more affordable.
Speaker 2: So this what attracted you that you've done a study
Speaker 2: on this? What it? There must have been something that
Speaker 2: attracted you to this study and and and said to yourself, well,
Speaker 2: well let me see that if I can prove or
Speaker 2: disprove this thesis.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we got a little of.
Speaker 2: A delay here.
Speaker 3: Do you want to hit it right now?
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, there seems to be a delay here.
Speaker 4: You want to hit I'm just not myself.
Speaker 2: You're just on your cell phone, Okay, no problem, I'm just.
Speaker 4: On my.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, apologies about that. So I think the issue
Speaker 3: is that really attracted me to this and to the
Speaker 3: pioneer in researching this is that a lot of people
Speaker 3: across the state are kind of feeling the cost pressures,
Speaker 3: and we wanted to see to what extent people were
Speaker 3: making decisions about leaving Massachusetts as a result of those.
Speaker 3: So I think everybody understands that we're having a bit
Speaker 3: of a housing crunch. Housing is very unaffordable. You know,
Speaker 3: the median rent for a two venter apartment in Greater
Speaker 3: Boston is thirty two hundred dollars a month. It's the
Speaker 3: you know, single family homes are difficult to buy because
Speaker 3: there's so expensive. There's a lot of taxes. Master's is
Speaker 3: very uncompetitive with other states in our tax rates, and
Speaker 3: we want to know that it's a very difficult decision
Speaker 3: for people, for someone to uproot themselves and leave, and
Speaker 3: we want to know to what extent these factors are
Speaker 3: pushing people out and not attracting other people back in.
Speaker 2: Okay, some of the high tax states around the country.
Speaker 2: We think of New York, California, and Hawaii and you
Speaker 2: mentioned them in your report. They have a drain of people.
Speaker 2: We have a drain of people. We do not have
Speaker 2: large families anymore, with five or six kids. That's a
Speaker 2: rare exception. So we actually at a time when we
Speaker 2: should be increasing population, although we are, we have had
Speaker 2: an influx of people coming to the state recently from
Speaker 2: across the border and from Texas and places like that.
Speaker 2: Bottom line is, we are not growing as a state,
Speaker 2: and we haven't been growing as a state compared to
Speaker 2: other states for a long time. And the reason I
Speaker 2: know that is when I started in this business a
Speaker 2: long time ago, we used to have sixteen members of
Speaker 2: the House of Representatives. We're now down to nine. Because
Speaker 2: of course that's all based on population around the country.
Speaker 2: But what you found was that thousands of people are
Speaker 2: leaving Massachusetts, people who have established themselves. And the thing
Speaker 2: that's most frightening is that, based upon the graphs and
Speaker 2: charts that I've seen of the people who were leaving
Speaker 2: Massachusetts who left in twenty twenty two, more than fifty
Speaker 2: percent of those people who left Massachusetts were high earners,
Speaker 2: meaning they were making over two hundred thousand dollars two
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars or more a year. And when you
Speaker 2: add in the people who were making between one hundred
Speaker 2: and two hundred thousand dollars, which is also a high earner,
Speaker 2: you can add another twenty five percent. So in in fact,
Speaker 2: about eighty percent of the of the people who have
Speaker 2: left Massachusetts in that year twenty twenty two, eighty percent
Speaker 2: of them are making upwards of over one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: That's an incredible drain of income and ultimately tax revenue.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, exactly, And that's amounted to about seventy one
Speaker 3: thousand people more people leaving the state than coming in.
Speaker 3: Since from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two, likely something
Speaker 3: around the lines of five hundred million dollars of tax revenue.
Speaker 3: That has left eleven billion dollars in total income those
Speaker 3: tax filers have brought with them to other states when
Speaker 3: they left. That's a significant loss for the state.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to drill down on some of the
Speaker 2: costs of some of the reasons that the people are leaving.
Speaker 2: And look that there's a bunch of reasons that maybe
Speaker 2: some people decide they want to leave for the weather. Well,
Speaker 2: we can't change the weather. But the tax structure and
Speaker 2: all of that in Massachusetts compared to other states is important.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that. My guest is with us. He's
Speaker 2: with the Pioneer Institute. Aiden En Wright. Are you are
Speaker 2: you I assume you're an economist state correct, Yes.
Speaker 3: I'm an economic research associate, so economist by training.
Speaker 2: Okay, excellent. We'll take a very quick break here at nightside.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to join the conversation and talk about
Speaker 2: maybe your decision to leave a state or your decision
Speaker 2: to stay in a state, feel free. I think it's
Speaker 2: something we need to think about here in Massachusetts because
Speaker 2: most of us think about our own set of circumstances,
Speaker 2: and either we're happy with our own set of circumstances
Speaker 2: or unhappy or somewhere in the middle. But we're surrounded
Speaker 2: by people who are some doing better than us, some
Speaker 2: doing worse than us. All so, now a bunch of
Speaker 2: people who are very successful and also young. We're talking
Speaker 2: about people in their twenties and thirties who have decided
Speaker 2: Massachusetts is not quite their cup of tea. If you'd
Speaker 2: like to add your voice to the conversation, all you
Speaker 2: gotta do is dial six one, seven, two, five, four
Speaker 2: ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one ten
Speaker 2: thirty back with Aiden en Wright. This this research study
Speaker 2: is available from Pioneer Institute. UH It's It's It's It's
Speaker 2: good read it's it's a sad story, but it's a
Speaker 2: good read. Back on Nightside Rent after a couple of
Speaker 2: brief messages.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: to night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: With me is aiden Enwright. He's with the Pioneer Institute
Speaker 2: and he has an author uh an article entitled mass
Speaker 2: out Migration Massachusetts out Migration, Outfit of Wealth and Residents continues.
Speaker 2: This is a white paper. It is available by going
Speaker 2: to Pioneer Institute dot org. You can read it for yourself.
Speaker 2: But I just think that when you listen and well,
Speaker 2: when you just read, let me read a little bit
Speaker 2: of this. Out migration from Massachusetts has been increasing consistently
Speaker 2: over the last decade, but since the beginning of the
Speaker 2: COVID nineteen pandemic in twenty twenty, out migration has surged.
Speaker 2: From twenty twelve to twenty nineteen, Massachusetts lost ten billion
Speaker 2: dollars in net adjusted gross income agi from emigrating taxpayers.
Speaker 2: In just three years. From twenty twenty to twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: the state lost an even greater amount ten point six billion,
Speaker 2: So it's accelerating. The state lost three point nine billion
Speaker 2: in adjusted gross income in twenty twenty two alone. Over
Speaker 2: twenty twelve to twenty twenty two period, total AGI loss
Speaker 2: increased fourfold. And to make this wave of outer state
Speaker 2: migration even a greater concern, it is concentrated among wealthier
Speaker 2: tax filers with at least two hundred thousand dollars a
Speaker 2: yearly income and residents aged twenty six to thirty four.
Speaker 2: This is a trend, and the sub trend is fighting.
Speaker 2: This is not older people in their sixties, seventies, and
Speaker 2: eighties deciding to DeCamp to Florida so they can beat
Speaker 2: the common health on the estate tax provisions that exist
Speaker 2: here in Massachusetts. Is when you started on this and
Speaker 2: you didn't have these numbers. This sounds to me like
Speaker 2: this is a critical problem that no one, no one
Speaker 2: in the comonwalth of Massachusetts is currently addressing. How right?
Speaker 2: How wrong am I on that point?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of staggering these trends. You know, Massachusetts
Speaker 3: has been using people to a certain extent for many years.
Speaker 3: New Hampshire, for example, one out of every four residents
Speaker 3: of New Hampshire were originally born in Massachusetts. That's how
Speaker 3: many people we've lost in New Hampshire. But the huge
Speaker 3: surge in the last couple of years is like something
Speaker 3: that we haven't seen before, and there's not really a
Speaker 3: lot that's been going on to address it. The legislature
Speaker 3: has tried a couple of different solutions, but just not
Speaker 3: to the extent that's necessary to exact to you know,
Speaker 3: kind of stem this tide of people leaving the state.
Speaker 2: Well, we just on a ballot initiative in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two approved the so called millionaires tax, so that now
Speaker 2: people who are earning over a million dollars, instead of
Speaker 2: paying five with the flag graduated state income tax, they're
Speaker 2: now charged nine percent on anything over a million dollars.
Speaker 2: And people who make that sort of money, they're not dumb,
Speaker 2: and they're not going to stick around in Massachusetts and
Speaker 2: pay really the equivalent about if someone makes a professional athlete,
Speaker 2: for example, who makes thirty million dollars, they're going to
Speaker 2: pay approximately ten million dollars, well, not ten million, ten
Speaker 2: percent of that thirty million dollars, three million dollars in
Speaker 2: state taxes in Massachusetts playing for the Red Sox, the Bruins,
Speaker 2: the Patriots, or the Celtics if they played in Florida,
Speaker 2: or in Texas or in Tennessee, that money would not
Speaker 2: go to the state because or they don't have they
Speaker 2: don't have the equivalent of state income taxes there. And
Speaker 2: by the way, that is going to cost our professional
Speaker 2: sports teams. And it's already been raised by some of
Speaker 2: the professional sports agents. And I know most people could
Speaker 2: care less about the the athlete who make you know,
Speaker 2: mega millions of dollars. But we've always prided ourselves on
Speaker 2: having you know, great competitive teams, and we're going to
Speaker 2: be losing a lot of these athletes when it comes
Speaker 2: time for contract renewals on this Why wouldn't athletes stay
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts play for Massachusetts team knowing that essentially ten
Speaker 2: percent of their salary is going to go out the
Speaker 2: window before they even get it. Explain that one to
Speaker 2: my audience.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: That's something that a lot of people in the sports
Speaker 3: scene have raised, something that Phil Policheck has mentioned recently
Speaker 3: that it's been harder to kind of attract star athletes
Speaker 3: into Massachusetts because of the additional tax. And there's also
Speaker 3: been there are certified public accountants in Massachusetts and they've
Speaker 3: recently been surveying a lot of their high income clients,
Speaker 3: and sixty four percent of them said that the surtax
Speaker 3: alone is a reason that they're considering leaving the state.
Speaker 3: And it's not just the surtax. A lot of states,
Speaker 3: more than half of the states in the country, don't
Speaker 3: have an estate tax attacks on someone's home after they
Speaker 3: die and other wealth Massachusetts does, and it has one
Speaker 3: of the lowest thresholds in the country. We also have
Speaker 3: a short term capital gains tax. Most states align their
Speaker 3: capital gains tax at the same level for short term
Speaker 3: and long term. We also have other business taxes that
Speaker 3: disportunately affect high income people here, and so it's kind
Speaker 3: of a confluence of factors, and it just doesn't make
Speaker 3: economic sense to stay here or to locate here, especially
Speaker 3: if you're like an athlete.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that we have a lot of
Speaker 2: politicians who look at the wealthy people in Massachusetts as
Speaker 2: cash cows, and and in that group, obviously you have
Speaker 2: a lot of professional athletes who earn their money here.
Speaker 2: So therefore they are caught in that in that dilemma.
Speaker 2: But when they have a choice to play for another
Speaker 2: team in another another state that is much more tax friendly,
Speaker 2: they're going to relocate. It's it's as simple as that.
Speaker 2: My guest is Aiden, and right, Aiden, we have a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of phone calls here and I want to
Speaker 2: get to all of them. Mike, Matt Sorgia, and we'll
Speaker 2: start with Kathleen. You can ask questions, you can make comments. Uh,
Speaker 2: let's start the conversation part of our interview with Aiden
Speaker 2: and Wright of the Pioneer Institute right after the news
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the hour. My name is Dan
Speaker 2: Ray and this is Nightside, and we're trying to make
Speaker 2: you think. Okay, that's all we're trying to do. You
Speaker 2: may come to the absolute different conclusion than Aidan and
Speaker 2: I probably would come to. But as long as you
Speaker 2: think and get and get to that conclusion, I'm We'll
Speaker 2: be back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w z
Speaker 1: Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Britdie takes some phone calls. My guest is Aiden Enright.
Speaker 2: He has produced a very thoughtful paper for the Pioneer Institute,
Speaker 2: which you can read yourself at Pioneer Institute dot org.
Speaker 2: It is just it's entitled mass Out Migration Paper. It
Speaker 2: is a frightening look into the last twelve or so
Speaker 2: years in this commonwealth under the leadership of both Republican
Speaker 2: and Democratic governors. By the way, it doesn't really matter
Speaker 2: if the legislature itself is a way to the left
Speaker 2: politically in Massachusetts. And at this point, people, particularly young
Speaker 2: people according to this report, meaning in the ages of
Speaker 2: twenty six to thirty four, who are making over two
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars a leaving this eight and that does
Speaker 2: not argue well for the future. So let's go first
Speaker 2: off to New Jersey where Kathleen awaits. Hey, Kathleen, welcome
Speaker 2: to Night Side. Thanks for calling in. You're all with
Speaker 2: Aiden En Wright.
Speaker 5: Hi, Dan, can you hear me?
Speaker 2: I can hear you just perfectly. I don't know have
Speaker 2: I ever had the pleasure of you calling this show
Speaker 2: from Jersey before?
Speaker 5: Yes, I have a house in Massachusetts and I also
Speaker 5: have one down in South Jersey, and tonight I'm driving
Speaker 5: down to the South Jersey home.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, welcome, welcome. I'm delighted that you're joining
Speaker 2: us and you've got Aiden En Wright's full attention. What's
Speaker 2: your comment or question?
Speaker 5: Yes, so I'm curious to know. I think I've seen
Speaker 5: it from experience. I'm older than that twenty eight and
Speaker 5: thirty four.
Speaker 4: Age groups aren't well lately, and I.
Speaker 5: Know, h serious place to be that young again. But
Speaker 5: I've noticed a lot of the twenty age to thirty
Speaker 5: four year old, especially in that income bracket, are working
Speaker 5: for certain intersties like high tech pharmaceuticals, and those companies
Speaker 5: are relocating out of mass for a number of reasons.
Speaker 5: And I've noticed that they're like moving, especially Texas, Arizona,
Speaker 5: parts of the Midwest. Could that be why we have
Speaker 5: this influx of people in that gage group migrating out
Speaker 5: stands well, let's.
Speaker 2: See, is this a function of individual choices or a
Speaker 2: company decisions to relocate that's Kathleen's question, or a combination thereof,
Speaker 2: and which is which is a heavier factor?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's I think it's some kind of
Speaker 3: combination of the two. Obviously, there are certain businesses relocating
Speaker 3: to states that have lower taxes corporate taxes and other
Speaker 3: kinds of things, and where jobs are, that's where people
Speaker 3: are going to locate to. You also kind of have
Speaker 3: this rise of remote work. There's a lot of fully
Speaker 3: remote workers in Massachusetts or even people who are working
Speaker 3: for companies that are located here have additional freedom, especially
Speaker 3: those younger people, to relocate to more cost effective states
Speaker 3: where they can have a Massachusetts income but live somewhere
Speaker 3: where that income goes a lot further. So I think
Speaker 3: for a lot of people it's kind of a no
Speaker 3: brainer decision.
Speaker 2: But a lot of those people, if they're working for
Speaker 2: Massachusetts companies, even though they're living in Florida or Arizona,
Speaker 2: they're paying state taxes to Massachusetts. If that money is
Speaker 2: earned and paid by Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: Corporation, yeah, they would be paying some state taxes, but
Speaker 3: any of their other contributions, and if they're bringing some
Speaker 3: other kind of business with them, or the money that
Speaker 3: they're spending in their local communities and other things like that,
Speaker 3: that's leading the state.
Speaker 2: Okay, Kathleen, that's a really good question. You got to
Speaker 2: follow up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wondered then if this age group between twenty
Speaker 5: eight and thirty four, let's be honest, that's usually a
Speaker 5: child bearing age or a you know, child making age,
Speaker 5: then are they not enrolling their children in Massachusetts schools?
Speaker 5: For instance, in a lot of cities and sounds like
Speaker 5: I live at my home in Kingsboro, we're building a
Speaker 5: very large middle school to accommodate the number of children
Speaker 5: that they're projecting to go into the middle school. So
Speaker 5: now I've seen around me all these different communities building
Speaker 5: no middle schools, elementary schools, high schools, projecting these children
Speaker 5: and now there's going to be dropped in the population.
Speaker 5: So then what impact does that have on the rate payers?
Speaker 5: Stay behind dan because these schools have been built.
Speaker 2: Now it's not going to get better.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, No, certainly.
Speaker 3: You know, the child age population in Massachusetts as largely decreasing.
Speaker 3: A lot of people are deciding to go to different
Speaker 3: states because if you're going to buy a single family
Speaker 3: home or something like that and you want to raise
Speaker 3: a family, it's a lot more affordable elsewhere, and so
Speaker 3: the people who are here for making those types of
Speaker 3: investments are going to shoulder more of that burden and
Speaker 3: that's not there.
Speaker 2: And there's also a lot of parents in Massachusetts who
Speaker 2: are now homeschooling kids as well, So that's a factor
Speaker 2: in terms of dwindling a public school population. Kathleen, I
Speaker 2: loved your questions, and I thank you for being such
Speaker 2: a loyal nightside listener. How's the signal coming in in
Speaker 2: your car down in Jersey.
Speaker 5: I'm actually coming in pretty good consider and I'm going
Speaker 5: through thirty five to forty mile an hour on Wednesday,
Speaker 5: but at least I'm not getting to know.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, We'll have safe travels and we'll be here
Speaker 2: till midnight for you to keep your company.
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, thank you.
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 5: It's a great topic and I appreciate the time.
Speaker 2: Thanks, Kathleen, appreciate your call. Let's keep rolling here. Going
Speaker 2: to go next to a sword jump who is in Mansfield, Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: a little closer to home. So what's You're welcome? How
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 4: Hey?
Speaker 6: Dan? How's it going tonight?
Speaker 2: It's going great, going great, Sogia. You're on with aiden En? Right,
Speaker 2: what's your comment of question?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Really quick, Aiden, I was able to find the piece,
Speaker 6: so it's definitely an interesting piece and I want to
Speaker 6: read it when I get a chance. But you know, Dan,
Speaker 6: I'm obviously a big Boston sports fan and wanted to
Speaker 6: kind of attack it from the sports perspective. And you know,
Speaker 6: I don't know if you can really compare like the
Speaker 6: California tax situation to Massachusetts, but like for example.
Speaker 2: California, California is even worse than Massachusetts. But but, but Florida, Texas.
Speaker 2: There are a bunch of states where professional sports teams
Speaker 2: in you know, various leagues exist if it's a choice,
Speaker 2: if taxes, taxes in California, that's why a lot of
Speaker 2: people are leaving California. They're losing population out there. They're
Speaker 2: faster than Massachusets on a per capita basis, right, And you.
Speaker 6: Know, as a big Celtics fan, you know, we're very
Speaker 6: fortunate that JB and JT locked up those massive kind
Speaker 6: of extensions. But they've actually done kind of some calculations
Speaker 6: on that the take home of these big contracts, Like
Speaker 6: you're lucky if you take even fifty percent home. And
Speaker 6: you know, it's getting to a point where, like the
Speaker 6: Patriots are coming up on a big off season, so
Speaker 6: you hope that you're able to get the big guys. Obviously,
Speaker 6: the Red Sox right now are in the Wan Soto situation,
Speaker 6: and I think it's going to be really interesting to see.
Speaker 6: I the one question I wanted to ask Aiden, I
Speaker 6: don't I don't know if you'll be able to answer this,
Speaker 6: but so sorry, show Hey with the Dodgers, right, he
Speaker 6: cont he had a seven hundred million dollar contract, and
Speaker 6: he structured his deal so that his annual salary is
Speaker 6: only two million dollars and a lot of the contract
Speaker 6: is deferred.
Speaker 2: Right. It's interesting. So by time he has left California
Speaker 2: and returned home to either Japan or moved to Texas
Speaker 2: or Florida, that's the brilliance of his contract.
Speaker 6: So was he at that point he would not have
Speaker 6: to pay the California state income tax at that point
Speaker 6: when he was receiving the lump sum.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's going to be a question for
Speaker 2: California court. And I assumed that he had tax advice
Speaker 2: and aiden you can jump in here on this as well.
Speaker 2: The argument is going to be, Okay, look, I only
Speaker 2: took I played ten years, and I took you know, say,
Speaker 2: thirty million dollars over those ten years. So the balance
Speaker 2: of my contract I've decided to relocate to either back
Speaker 2: home to Japan or Texas. I mean, I assume Japan
Speaker 2: probably has some pretty exhorbitant tax rates as well. But
Speaker 2: I assume that his lawyers have thought about that, They've
Speaker 2: talked to accountants, and eventually I know that the state
Speaker 2: of California is not going to let him go easily,
Speaker 2: and there'll be a big text case that will happen
Speaker 2: ten or fifteen or twenty years from now that you'll
Speaker 2: read about and you'll say, hey, I talked with Dan
Speaker 2: Ray and Aiden en Wright about that. You know how
Speaker 2: it will come out with judges in California. God only knows.
Speaker 2: God only knows.
Speaker 6: Right, Well, it's a great show, has always done. It's
Speaker 6: actually my first time calling since the pandemic. I still
Speaker 6: listen to the show on those Spotify podcast clips. So yeah,
Speaker 6: I have a great rest share night, Dan.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll give you run of applauses first time. Carlos Soldier,
Speaker 2: Thank you very much and come on by soon. Okay.
Speaker 2: It's always great to talk to a sports guy, particularly
Speaker 2: when we're talking economics, because I don't think there's a
Speaker 2: chance at all that Won Soto signs here, and I
Speaker 2: think to some extent, the Red Sox would be crazy
Speaker 2: to do that. The amount of money that that have
Speaker 2: to lay out for him. They have some guys coming
Speaker 2: up in uh who are outfielders. They're gonna they would
Speaker 2: have to get rid of those guys. The Red Sox
Speaker 2: don't need another bad in my opinion, they need some pitching,
Speaker 2: and they picked up Chapman yesterday, but he's thirty six
Speaker 2: year old relief pitcher. You know. I mean, I'd like
Speaker 2: to see a couple of you know, uh, top of
Speaker 2: the rotation starters a signed with the socks. That's what
Speaker 2: they really need. They'll produce runs with or without Soto
Speaker 2: in my opinion, But hey, what do I know. Let's
Speaker 2: let's take a quick break. Mike and Peebety and Matt
Speaker 2: and Franklin, you guys are coming up next. I got
Speaker 2: a little bit of room. Anyone else who wants to
Speaker 2: join the conversation six seven two five four ten thirty
Speaker 2: one line open there in two lines at six one
Speaker 2: seven nine three one ten thirty. We're talking out migration,
Speaker 2: people leaving Massachusetts. I mean, it's a thought that that
Speaker 2: I've been broadcasting remotely, but I'm in Massachusetts. I'm not
Speaker 2: leaving Massachusetts anytime soon. But it's frightening to think what
Speaker 2: might happen in terms of the drain that we're going
Speaker 2: to have here economically. And believe me, read this this
Speaker 2: report at the Pioneer Institute dot com. Uh it's uh no,
Speaker 2: it's Pioneer Institute dot org. Excuse me, and if you
Speaker 2: read it, it's very readable. By the way, it's Aidan,
Speaker 2: it's you are an economist. But it's written so that
Speaker 2: people actually can can understand with a lot of charts
Speaker 2: and very clear language. So it's a great report and
Speaker 2: I hope people will get it. Mass out migration, outflux
Speaker 2: of wealth and residence continues and actually is increasing here
Speaker 2: at Massachusetts. Back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get three callers in here for my
Speaker 2: guest Aiden enright, talking about the out migration of people
Speaker 2: from Massachusetts. They're leaving the state. Mike and Pee Butty. Hey, Mike,
Speaker 2: next on Nightside, Say hi to Aiden n Wright. What's
Speaker 2: your comment? A question? Please?
Speaker 4: Mike, Hey, how you doing. I'm before getting my Can
Speaker 4: you hear me?
Speaker 2: Sure? Can? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I want to thank you.
Speaker 7: I'm an ironworker Local seven. I've been working in the
Speaker 7: city of Boston my.
Speaker 2: Whole life good and I thank you for what you're doing.
Speaker 2: That's tough work, what you guys doing, it's dangerous work.
Speaker 2: Thank you for doing that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, what I would like to get to I'm sixty one,
Speaker 7: years old today, and I want to talk about families,
Speaker 7: and the city is not promoting the families about you know,
Speaker 7: we build these big buildings and it's all about the
Speaker 7: dogs coming down off the twentieth floor, go down to
Speaker 7: the dog park. It's not about kids being in the
Speaker 7: family or family raising a family in the city of Boston.
Speaker 4: And I think the younger generation is just so fed.
Speaker 7: Up with it's not about building a family and living
Speaker 7: in the city. It's all about a dog park on
Speaker 7: these high rises.
Speaker 4: And I really think the city's.
Speaker 7: Got to promote about the family oriented about why don't
Speaker 7: we have enough parks for the kids to play in
Speaker 7: if we build these big high rises with balconies. Now,
Speaker 7: think about these buildings that got balconies. Now, if you
Speaker 7: have a four or five year old, then you leave
Speaker 7: the kitchen for two or three seconds and that child
Speaker 7: gets out and you try only with a balcony. That's
Speaker 7: the sad situation.
Speaker 4: And I really think the city's going.
Speaker 7: To promote family about walking down to the park, the playground,
Speaker 7: going down the slide, swinging on the swing.
Speaker 4: And I think this is what the younger generation is
Speaker 4: fed up about. We are so priced out of the city.
Speaker 4: Here it is.
Speaker 7: I worked on a building in South Boston and here
Speaker 7: it is fourteenth floor overlooking Logan Airport for one point
Speaker 7: three million. One point three million is six hundred thousand
Speaker 7: dollars down payment with a nine hundred dollars condo feet
Speaker 7: and nine thousand, three hundred dollars a month mortgage. How
Speaker 7: is a family a younger generation for that? And now, Mike,
Speaker 7: you made you made the city of Boston, may.
Speaker 2: Mike, you made a lot of great points. And guess
Speaker 2: what that's kind of it's very very close to what
Speaker 2: we're talking about tonight. And maybe I will take that
Speaker 2: up and take that up as an entire hour topic,
Speaker 2: if not later on this week, sometime next week, because
Speaker 2: I think it's a great point you made. I really do.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, no, no, thank you for taking
Speaker 4: my phone call.
Speaker 7: And I love the city of Boston. And I just
Speaker 7: see all the younger generation working here and they can't
Speaker 7: afford to live in the city, and I just think
Speaker 7: we've got to really take a look at downtown Boston
Speaker 7: about promote for families and that I was in Brighton.
Speaker 2: I was in Brighton this afternoon, Mike, and the only
Speaker 2: thing I could see everywhere everywhere in Brighton bike lanes,
Speaker 2: bike lanes, bike lanes, bike lanes. Crazy. Thanks Mike, I
Speaker 2: talk to you.
Speaker 4: Soon, go taking me taking my vocal. Thank you.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. We go to Matt and Franklin. Matt want
Speaker 2: to get you in one more in here, go ahead,
Speaker 2: Matt your question of comment for aid and in right.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: What I'm going to say is the other thing about
Speaker 8: mass Cheers is there's all the jobs in the Boston area,
Speaker 8: but the only affordable area of mass cheerst is like
Speaker 8: Western mass like Stirbridge to Springfield, and then you have
Speaker 8: to get to and then your car is now fifty
Speaker 8: thousand dollars gas was three dollars a gallon. You can't
Speaker 8: get out their holiday weekends or school times, and you
Speaker 8: can't really commute. And like we always bash California, but
Speaker 8: I mean California at least gets rid of the incumbents
Speaker 8: every once in a while on like this state, Like
Speaker 8: this state, we.
Speaker 9: Just keep promoting them. And I think that has our
Speaker 9: biggest downfall, that we just keep doing it to ourselves
Speaker 9: for whatever reason. And I think barr Heally is really
Speaker 9: disappointed because she thought she was going to escape the
Speaker 9: crisis she helped create and go down to DC and
Speaker 9: be the Attorney General. But that's not going to happen.
Speaker 9: And then if you also look at some of these
Speaker 9: other states, like specifically California, what you're paying here, you
Speaker 9: get something that's one hundred and twenty years old, while
Speaker 9: out there you get something that's like fifty maybe even newer.
Speaker 9: I mean, you might not be living in Beverly Hills,
Speaker 9: but it's like one of those things where you're in
Speaker 9: like the Central Valley, palm desert and not the commute,
Speaker 9: but it's not.
Speaker 4: The same thing.
Speaker 9: Almost you might have a miserable existence, but the weather's nicing.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, well, I think there's some great.
Speaker 3: Points you're making there. And like you said, part of
Speaker 3: part of the issue is transportation too. You know, if
Speaker 3: you're making fifty sixty thousand dollars, you might not be
Speaker 3: able to afford forty fifty sixty thousand dollars. You might
Speaker 3: not be able to afford to live in Greater Boston,
Speaker 3: in Cambridge or the Boston and the city itself, so
Speaker 3: you're living further outside and Boston has some of the
Speaker 3: worst traffic in the country we have, you know, crumbling.
Speaker 4: At least transportation around at least.
Speaker 2: I saw that. But remember this. The good news is
Speaker 2: we get bike lines everywhere. So if you're riding a bike,
Speaker 2: you're in great shape. If you're riding a car, you screwed.
Speaker 2: As simple as that. Hey, let me get my friend
Speaker 2: Nikita in Nikita from mald and my screen actor guild friend. Hi, Nikita,
Speaker 2: how are you hi?
Speaker 10: Then thank you for taking my car I've had called
Speaker 10: for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, go right ahead, you're all with aiden and.
Speaker 10: Right, yes, I just want to support what I Then
Speaker 10: the Pioneers report and give some examples from my family's perspective.
Speaker 10: I have sixteen family members who I've left between twenty
Speaker 10: twenty and twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 10: So between my brother he used to live in Franklin
Speaker 10: and his Irish wife and two children, I mean young adults,
Speaker 10: my daughter and husband and children, My niece and husband
Speaker 10: and four children. So I'm talking just my family, only
Speaker 10: nephew's nieces and brothers, or sixteen of them i'd moved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got you have a many a mini migration
Speaker 2: leaving Massachusetts.
Speaker 10: Yeah, just sixteen. But they don't make I think my brother,
Speaker 10: my brother in Franklin probably miss six figures. But the
Speaker 10: other ones, you know, MIDDI mid mid middle income, you
Speaker 10: know they are middle income on professionals. But what being
Speaker 10: here on what I'm concerned about is that those who
Speaker 10: are living don't have the same caliber those as those
Speaker 10: who are coming in. So my brother had a master's,
Speaker 10: my daughter has master's degrees, my niece has massage degrees.
Speaker 10: So is that the calibers of those who are living
Speaker 10: and not the same as those war coming in. If
Speaker 10: you see what you know.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, a lot of the folks, a lot of
Speaker 2: the folks who have come in Nikita, as you know,
Speaker 2: have come in across the border. We have no idea
Speaker 2: who they are. We have no idea what skill set
Speaker 2: they have. I feel very sorry because I think that
Speaker 2: they have been induced to come here. Some of them
Speaker 2: came here to escape political violence, and we we should
Speaker 2: welcome those folks. But if you're coming here just for
Speaker 2: quote unquote a better life, that is not a reason
Speaker 2: that you can claim asylum. But yeah, that's but you know,
Speaker 2: it's they're just letting everybody in.
Speaker 10: And yes, yeah for sixteen you know, you know they
Speaker 10: were born here, they were born in Cambridge you know,
Speaker 10: we you know, we came to Cambridge first and then
Speaker 10: kept moving until you know, we moved out of this
Speaker 10: out of state. But personally, I just regret that I've
Speaker 10: lived in Boston. So at my age, I cannot live
Speaker 10: now with the good healthcare in Boston, the good you
Speaker 10: know system healthcare systems. I would better have stayed in
Speaker 10: Boston because I've lost my work. I did not really
Speaker 10: have a career. I spent a life in school. You know.
Speaker 10: It just bothers me that I did not have a
Speaker 10: chance to really, you know, serve my community. So I
Speaker 10: think I'm from the neediest community in the in the
Speaker 10: in the state.
Speaker 2: So you're a part of my community. You're part of
Speaker 2: my community here on Nightside. So you just keep listening
Speaker 2: and keep calling and yeah, yeah we were. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe I can somehow help you along at some
Speaker 2: point you let.
Speaker 10: Me know, Okay, okay, I will. Thank you. Thank you
Speaker 10: for taking Michael, thank you, thank.
Speaker 2: You, Aiden, thank you so much. I'd love to have
Speaker 2: you back. Let's see if there's a follow up here.
Speaker 2: I know you haven't done a lot of radio before,
Speaker 2: but I thought you did a great job tonight, So
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us, and thank you for producing
Speaker 2: this paper. It's a very important paper. Send a copy
Speaker 2: to Governor Heally attention. Maybe we could start at the top.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 3: I will continue to be doing a lot more research
Speaker 3: on this issue, and so there'll be more talk about
Speaker 3: in the future.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. If you like to read the paper, it's pretty easy,
Speaker 2: about sixteen seventeen pages, really easy, lot of graphs. Just
Speaker 2: go to Pioneer Institute dot org. Aiden. Thank you much.
Speaker 2: We will talk again. Thank you, my friend. I appreciate
Speaker 2: you did a great job. Talk to you soon when
Speaker 2: we come back. We're going to talk about President elect
Speaker 2: Trump's threat to hamas he has put himself out there.
Speaker 2: I'd like to get your reaction. Coming back on Nightside,