Speaker 1: Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in
Speaker 1: this edition is Captain Sarah Spradlin. She's a veteran of
Speaker 1: the US Marine Corps serving with the Marine Forces Special
Speaker 1: Operations Command. She is now Doctor Sarah Spradlin, a leading
Speaker 1: researcher into the importance of emotional intelligence in special operations
Speaker 1: and especially female special operators. She joins me today to
Speaker 1: discuss her time on active duty and the groundbreaking scientific
Speaker 1: work she's now been doing for years. Sarah Spradlin was
Speaker 1: born and raised in the Chicago suburbs, and she came
Speaker 1: to appreciate military service at a young age. Her dad
Speaker 1: served as a Russian linguist doing military intelligence during the
Speaker 1: Cold War, and several aunts and uncles also served with honor.
Speaker 1: Spradlin says the stories from her dad's service inspired her,
Speaker 1: along with a desire to see the world, learn new things,
Speaker 1: and meet interesting people. But she says, deciding to become
Speaker 1: a Marine is a separate and unique calculation.
Speaker 2: The Marine Corps, in particular, is one of those things
Speaker 2: where when you wake up, you don't decide and ask yourself,
Speaker 2: am I going to join the service? You just kind
Speaker 2: of say if I'm joining the service, I want to
Speaker 2: be a Marine. I don't want to necessarily pick a service.
Speaker 2: I want to be a marine. It's very much in
Speaker 2: your blood. It's difficult to explain why you choose the
Speaker 2: Marine Corps because I think you choose to be a
Speaker 2: marine as opposed to choosing a branch.
Speaker 1: And by the mid to late nineties, Spradlin was spending
Speaker 1: her college years preparing to be a Marine Corps officer.
Speaker 1: In ROTC.
Speaker 2: I went through Virginia Tech Corps cadets talk about history
Speaker 2: and legacy. When I was at Virginia Tech, the deputy
Speaker 2: commandant was Colonel Wesley Fox, and so I had the
Speaker 2: absolute honor of having Colonel Wesley Fox as a mentor
Speaker 2: of mine and especially as a Marine option. Mitchipman that
Speaker 2: that's pretty incredible.
Speaker 1: You heard Spradland mentioned Colonel Wesley Fox. By the time
Speaker 1: he was at Virginia Tech, Fox was already a Marine
Speaker 1: Corps legend. He was a veteran of both the Korean
Speaker 1: and Vietnam Wars, was wounded in both, and received the
Speaker 1: Medal of Honor for his heroism at the Battle of
Speaker 1: Dewey Canyon in Vietnam in nineteen sixty nine. Spradland says
Speaker 1: learning from a man of Fox's experience and wisdom was
Speaker 1: invaluable to her.
Speaker 2: I think about this concept of soft operators, and you
Speaker 2: know tip of the spear in the Silent Warrior, where
Speaker 2: you don't you don't boast, you don't run around, you
Speaker 2: lead by example. You do it quietly, behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: you know, shaping the environment, shaping a narrative for a
Speaker 2: positive outcome. And that's really what he did without me
Speaker 2: even realizing it. You know, twenty five years ago, Colonel Fox,
Speaker 2: after you know, forty years of service, came over to
Speaker 2: continue to serve as the deputy commandant, and he would
Speaker 2: he would get up and the raider platoon, the Marine
Speaker 2: midshipman we would, you know, get up for pet and
Speaker 2: Colonel Fox would be up and he would already be
Speaker 2: running around the drill field is what we called it
Speaker 2: at Virginia Tech. He'd already be out there running around,
Speaker 2: or he'd be gardening in the heat with udt shorts
Speaker 2: on and a pith helmet like in his late sixties
Speaker 2: and just quietly just making stuff happen in a very
Speaker 2: just arduous you know, the weather and everything, and he
Speaker 2: just was. He was probably a great example of you know,
Speaker 2: that silent warrior who really lived by example, and I
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to soak all that in at a
Speaker 2: very early age.
Speaker 1: Spradland graduated from Virginia Tech in May of two thousand
Speaker 1: and one and was commissioned as an officer in the
Speaker 1: Marine Corps. Just four months later. Of course, the US
Speaker 1: found itself at war as a result of the nine
Speaker 1: to eleven terrorist attacks. Spradlin explains how the already intense
Speaker 1: military culture intensified even more.
Speaker 2: Before nine to eleven, in particular, going through the RTC program,
Speaker 2: we were in this non heightened combat deployment stage, if
Speaker 2: you would, and that ebbs and flows throughout history. And
Speaker 2: so I can remember one time as a freshman at
Speaker 2: Virginia Tech when the staff got up and addressed all
Speaker 2: of the cadets and said, we're going to be really
Speaker 2: real and really raw with you right now. In ten
Speaker 2: years from now, ten percent of you are not going
Speaker 2: to be here KIA training, accident, in service, whatever that
Speaker 2: looks like. But statistically, look around, because ten percent of
Speaker 2: you are not going to be here. Of your peers
Speaker 2: amongst all four of the branches in the the ROTC
Speaker 2: program and in that moment it doesn't register, and you're
Speaker 2: young and you're motivated. However, once nine to eleven happened,
Speaker 2: I was at TBS, I was at the Basic School,
Speaker 2: I was at Quantico, and our XO called everybody in
Speaker 2: to the auditorium to brief us. And after nine to eleven,
Speaker 2: I think that that concept of why those statistics were
Speaker 2: introduced to us really resonated in an appreciation of we
Speaker 2: had switched. We had gone from you know, a geopolitical
Speaker 2: state of non deployment in aggregate in like with mass deployments,
Speaker 2: and that was it like we had switched and the
Speaker 2: ten percent was coming and it wasn't just ten percent
Speaker 2: at this point there was. It was a lot more
Speaker 2: than ten percent that we lost out of that class
Speaker 2: over the next ten years. I think that was probably
Speaker 2: for me an interesting kind of lever of change in
Speaker 2: perspective of things from pre to post nine.
Speaker 1: To eleven, Spradland would not be sent to a war zone. Instead,
Speaker 1: her first overseas assignment was in Okinawa.
Speaker 2: So after the schooling, I went to Okinawa. I was
Speaker 2: at third FSSG, so I was the age at third FSSG,
Speaker 2: which was unique because as a second lieutenant, I should
Speaker 2: have gone to a battalion, right if you think about
Speaker 2: a traditional route, I should have gone to a battalion,
Speaker 2: But I went to the group level, and so I
Speaker 2: got an early perspective of things at a little bit
Speaker 2: more of a strategic level, which really kind of think
Speaker 2: perpetuated a path that I went down where I never
Speaker 2: ended up at a battalion per se. I just continued
Speaker 2: to work at a little bit more of a strategic
Speaker 2: manpower level as an adjutant.
Speaker 1: But before long Spradland was back home and overseeing boot
Speaker 1: camp at Paris Island for female recruits.
Speaker 2: This was when we still had Fourth Battalion, when we
Speaker 2: had our standalone female battalion. Fourth Battalion has since rolled
Speaker 2: up its colors and it's integrated now, but this was
Speaker 2: at a time when we had our standalone fourth Battalion
Speaker 2: was all female, all female hats, all female officers, and
Speaker 2: I went there and I was at Fourth Battalion with
Speaker 2: Oscar Company for about a year, and then from there
Speaker 2: I transitioned over to Support Battalion, where I took command
Speaker 2: of a special training company. And Special Training Company is
Speaker 2: was the largest training company on Paras Island, and it's
Speaker 2: a conglomeration of all of the recruits who are they're
Speaker 2: in a transition period, so they've been either pulled out
Speaker 2: of training or they're waiting to go into training due
Speaker 2: to some type of illness or injury or mental health concern,
Speaker 2: or their physicality isn't meeting the standard yet, and we
Speaker 2: had to get them inside of those standards, whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, pull ups, runtime weight swim call things of that.
Speaker 2: And then there's a whole nother unit within Special Training
Speaker 2: Company that was interesting, which is called the Basic Marine Platoon,
Speaker 2: and those are marines. They've graduated book, but they can't
Speaker 2: go on to marine combat training yet, and so they're
Speaker 2: inside there too. So that was a really neat experience
Speaker 2: because I had twenty plus at all times, male and
Speaker 2: female drill instructors navigating really unique dynamics of recruit needs
Speaker 2: and trying to align that to the overall mission of
Speaker 2: you know, of Paris Island, of we want to increase retention.
Speaker 2: We want to get as many through and graduated as possible,
Speaker 2: so no matter how sick they are, we want to
Speaker 2: heal them and get them back in training, no matter
Speaker 2: how hurt they are, injured. You know, no matter how
Speaker 2: much they don't want to be here, we want to
Speaker 2: convince them that they need to be here. And so
Speaker 2: that that was a really neat unit that I was at.
Speaker 1: While at Paris Island, Spradland began working with others to
Speaker 1: streamline manpower in order to avoid having to bring officers
Speaker 1: and non commissioned officers out of downrange assignments for further training.
Speaker 1: That work led to the development of a special training
Speaker 1: court and the next step in Spradland's career.
Speaker 2: And so we're at PA school and we built this
Speaker 2: strategic Manpower Officer course we called the mock Course Manpower
Speaker 2: Us our Course, and it was really great, and we'd
Speaker 2: run through about three or four iterations. And at that point,
Speaker 2: I was actually pregnant with my second daughter, and I
Speaker 2: was getting close to that ten year mark, and I
Speaker 2: kind of had to take a step back and ask myself,
Speaker 2: am I going to stay in after the ten year
Speaker 2: mark or am I going to transition? You know, I
Speaker 2: had a lot of guilt, a lot of missed opportunities
Speaker 2: with my kids, and so I kind of floated this
Speaker 2: idea that I was looking for a change. I didn't
Speaker 2: know what that change looked like. But I knew it
Speaker 2: wasn't being deployed, being tad and being rushing to daycare
Speaker 2: with my kids at five o'clock in the morning because
Speaker 2: you know, I got to be at PT. So Marsak
Speaker 2: had stood up and things had kind of started to
Speaker 2: come to fruition with you know, how where are we
Speaker 2: going with this? It wasn't just debt one right. Things
Speaker 2: were starting to build at that point. And I served
Speaker 2: as the retiring officer for a guny sergeant from PA
Speaker 2: School and about ten days later I get a phone
Speaker 2: call after the retirement and again he was like, hey,
Speaker 2: you heard this thing called Marsac And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I've kind of got an idea. They're like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, here's the deal. We're formally making things happen.
Speaker 2: We're in trailers in gravel parking lot over here at
Speaker 2: Stone Bay. For all intents and purposes. We have a
Speaker 2: piece of paper that says these are the billets that
Speaker 2: the Head Corps Marine Corps is going to give us
Speaker 2: a bunch of you know, Grandfather Force recom Boba's in
Speaker 2: a bunch of GS positions. We're going to come together
Speaker 2: and we're going to turn this into MARSOK and we're
Speaker 2: going to grow it, but we need people who can
Speaker 2: work strategic manpower. And so, you know, I share that
Speaker 2: backstory with you of you know, we built this course
Speaker 2: and it was really just incredible just happenstance opportunity that
Speaker 2: you believe in something and you build it and then
Speaker 2: it takes it takes on a lot of its own
Speaker 2: and so they said, you want to come over here
Speaker 2: and help build the force and help run the administration
Speaker 2: and manpower initiatives for the schoolhouse.
Speaker 1: That's US Marine Corps veteran and Captain Sarah Spradlin. She's
Speaker 1: now doctor Spradlin, focusing on the value of emotional intelligence
Speaker 1: and special operators. Well hear how her shift to Marsock
Speaker 1: led to the work she does now, how that work
Speaker 1: is done and the impact it has on the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of special operators. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles.
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Speaker 1: This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in
Speaker 1: this edition is Captain Sarah Spradlin. She's a US Marine
Speaker 1: Corps veteran who oversaw the Paris Island drilling of marine
Speaker 1: recruits in the all female fourth Battalion. She also helped
Speaker 1: to develop the cutting Edge Manpower Officer Course. Shortly after that,
Speaker 1: Spradlin left to become part of the Marine Forces Special
Speaker 1: Operations Command otherwise known as MARSAK. It was in that
Speaker 1: position that Spradland started to look into the emotional intelligence
Speaker 1: of special operators and pioneer various types of research in
Speaker 1: areas where the Marine Corps had not focused much in
Speaker 1: the past. Now it's become Spradland's focus in the private sector,
Speaker 1: but that path required several steps. First, Spradlin explains how
Speaker 1: our time at MARSAK led to the questions and eventually
Speaker 1: the search for answers on some of these questions.
Speaker 2: So I had mentioned that assessment in selection was inside
Speaker 2: of the schoolhouse at the time. You know, a big
Speaker 2: part of what I was doing was filling these rosters
Speaker 2: of you know, what capabilities do these different things need
Speaker 2: and how do I get them? How do I grow
Speaker 2: them if we don't have them? How do we grow
Speaker 2: them if we don't have them? So I'm really focused
Speaker 2: on making sure that the assessment in selection folks are
Speaker 2: constantstantly getting all the cadre that they need right that
Speaker 2: every time they do an evolution, they have the right
Speaker 2: people in the right place, and we're pulling them in
Speaker 2: from the conventional forces around Camp Lajune and just making
Speaker 2: sure that they have all of those right people in
Speaker 2: order to assess and select. And so as I'm doing this,
Speaker 2: I had the opportunity to go up and work at
Speaker 2: the locations where they're doing the assessment and selection. So
Speaker 2: by proxy, I'm watching and listening to the process, the expectations,
Speaker 2: the characteristics and capabilities that they're looking for to select
Speaker 2: what right looks like in a Marsac operator. Over time,
Speaker 2: I'm watching this change and all these massinations of Okay,
Speaker 2: we want to look for this, and we need a
Speaker 2: guy that looks like that. And then that kind of
Speaker 2: shifted and said, all right, well, no, I think as
Speaker 2: we evolve, we need them to look a little more
Speaker 2: like this right and all these different incredible attributes. And
Speaker 2: at the same time, I was going back to school
Speaker 2: and I was working on my doctorate in industrial organizational psychology.
Speaker 2: And as I'm going through courses and doing the research
Speaker 2: of you know number of things, I started to feel
Speaker 2: like as we were kind of evolving this concept of
Speaker 2: what right looks like in terms of hiring right the
Speaker 2: first time for an operator inside of Marsok in particular,
Speaker 2: I started to see that we had these kind of
Speaker 2: these three pots of requirements that we were looking at.
Speaker 2: And the first one was the physicality piece, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: you got to be able to run so fast, you know,
Speaker 2: all these these specific things, and it's objectively, we can
Speaker 2: measure it. There's a time and you got to run
Speaker 2: this far this fast. Then there's another pot and it
Speaker 2: is really that cognitive intellect. And again you know, very objectively,
Speaker 2: we can measure these things objectively. There's legacy assessments and
Speaker 2: you know, these are individuals that we're going to ask
Speaker 2: them to operate very complex weapons systems that they may
Speaker 2: have never used before. We requires a very high level
Speaker 2: of intellect. But then there was this third pod of
Speaker 2: competencies and it was not clean. It was very dichotomous.
Speaker 2: We're asking them, you know, we want to find somebody
Speaker 2: that has all these things. Oh and by the way,
Speaker 2: we want them to be a really, really good leader,
Speaker 2: but we also want them to be an incredible follower,
Speaker 2: and we want them to be really powerful in terms
Speaker 2: of being able to get up, speak publicly influence the masses.
Speaker 2: But we also want them to be able to just
Speaker 2: soak it all in and be a great, active and
Speaker 2: mindful listener so that they can gather intel and you know,
Speaker 2: cautiously navigate different conversations. And so it's all these dichotomous behaviors.
Speaker 2: We want them to be assertive and yet empathetic. We
Speaker 2: want them right. And I mean, I could we could
Speaker 2: talk about these these all day long. And I stepped
Speaker 2: back and I said, you know what it looks like.
Speaker 2: It sounds to me like what we're really looking for
Speaker 2: is somebody who is incredibly physically fit in these parameters,
Speaker 2: unique parame somebody who is cognitively intelligent, crystal and fluid intelligence,
Speaker 2: and also emotionally and socially intelligent, which doesn't mean they're
Speaker 2: nice and happy all the time. It means that they
Speaker 2: understand how to identify, assess, and manage emotional information in
Speaker 2: the right time to reach the optimal outcome in the
Speaker 2: best interest of all vested parties right and do these
Speaker 2: kind of push and pull of this emotional information that
Speaker 2: they're getting from themselves and others. And so at that
Speaker 2: point is really was a big transition where I started
Speaker 2: to do a lot of research on the influence of
Speaker 2: emotional intelligence in hiring right the first time, in selecting
Speaker 2: qualified applicants, and what that looked like for a cross
Speaker 2: section of SOCOM candidates in their selection and then their
Speaker 2: subsequent development process as leaders.
Speaker 1: Given the progress Spradland was making on her work, a
Speaker 1: jump to the private sector was not even on her radar.
Speaker 1: She was more than happy to stay at MARSAK. Eventually,
Speaker 1: she was presented with an opportunity that she simply could
Speaker 1: not refuse.
Speaker 2: No, it definitely evolved. I mean when I initially got
Speaker 2: off active duty to go to MARSAC, I thought I
Speaker 2: was going to die as a GS at SOCOM. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I was in it for the
Speaker 2: long haul. I wasn't expecting to then transition out and
Speaker 2: you know, solely focus outside. I mean, I still wanted
Speaker 2: to pursue the education while I was in, but I
Speaker 2: didn't think that it would take me on my own
Speaker 2: journey of a consulting firm and taking that journey.
Speaker 1: That's US Marine Corps veteran Captain Sarah Spradlin, now doctor
Speaker 1: Sarah Spradlin. Up next. Spradlin will share how she started
Speaker 1: researching the mindset and emotional intelligence of women in special
Speaker 1: operations basically from scratch. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is
Speaker 1: Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our
Speaker 1: guest in this addition is Captain and doctor Sarah Spradlin.
Speaker 1: She is a US Marine Corps veteran who served in
Speaker 1: the Marine Forces Special Operations Command. She's also a pioneer
Speaker 1: in studying and applying emotional intelligence in the advancement of
Speaker 1: special operators. Spradlin explains how she got that science started.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so as far as women and emotional intelligence, women's
Speaker 2: soft operators and emotional intelligence for all intents and purposes,
Speaker 2: there was none, right, I mean the concept might have
Speaker 2: been alluded to, but you know, I mean like peer
Speaker 2: reviewed studies on that particular dynamic. Really the research just
Speaker 2: didn't exist. And I think that's when we really stepped
Speaker 2: back and said, you know, we go back to the
Speaker 2: like soft truths. Like the first you know, first soft
Speaker 2: truth is, hands down, humans are more important than hardware.
Speaker 2: But in the definition of that soft truth, it talks
Speaker 2: about the right people being put in the right teams
Speaker 2: with the right capabilities, doesn't say anywhere about men. It
Speaker 2: doesn't say anything about physicality alone, and so I think
Speaker 2: collectively that the understanding that so Come works at the
Speaker 2: tip of the spear, and so Come, you know, understands
Speaker 2: that it is so much more than just being a
Speaker 2: snake eating knuckle dragon kind of you know, tough guy.
Speaker 2: It takes so much more than that to execute the
Speaker 2: operations and the tasks that are levied upon the soft community.
Speaker 2: And so with that in mind, really thought, you know,
Speaker 2: how do we take this fundamental concept that's backed by
Speaker 2: years of neuroscience and cognitive and behavioral psychology and behavioral
Speaker 2: economics and sociology and anthropology. How do we take this
Speaker 2: and really pull apart and study these hypotheses on just
Speaker 2: to what extent is this fundamental value of EI as
Speaker 2: it relates to all of the opportunities for personnel inside
Speaker 2: of soft and then have it collectively come together as
Speaker 2: a team. And what does that look like for women,
Speaker 2: what does it look like for men? Who needs which competencies?
Speaker 2: And how do we put those puzzle pieces together so
Speaker 2: that the ability to identify, assess, and manage that you know,
Speaker 2: I mean just unconscious and conscious emotional information that's driving
Speaker 2: everything becomes a part of that puzzle that really actually
Speaker 2: like bolsters and evolves the underpinning of the first soft truth,
Speaker 2: which is, you know, putting the right people in the
Speaker 2: right teams together because humans are more important than hardware.
Speaker 1: Spradlind says, one of the pillars of this research is
Speaker 1: realizing that emotional intelligence is pivotal to the success of
Speaker 1: special operations, just like physical ability.
Speaker 2: Is absolutely I mean the psychopathy of just selecting the
Speaker 2: right people and then you know, developing them into of
Speaker 2: you know, a framework that is going to establish and
Speaker 2: sustain resilience in a like a VUKA environmental volatile and
Speaker 2: uncertain and chaotic and ambiguous environment is certainly psychology is
Speaker 2: certainly fundamental to it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She also elaborated on how special operators are now more
Speaker 1: aware of the need to pick team members that complement
Speaker 1: each other and not simply search for the exact same qualities.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Yeah, and for those individuals to have
Speaker 2: the ability to know that, yes, these are my natural strengths,
Speaker 2: but I also know how to pull back and push
Speaker 2: forward with other ones that you have in case you're
Speaker 2: not there, and I recognize that I could use you
Speaker 2: right now and you're not here, so I'm going to
Speaker 2: kind of channel my inner view, and I'm I know
Speaker 2: how to with a positive intent, right And that's really
Speaker 2: important because this isn't about manipulation, It's about a positive intent,
Speaker 2: you know, and really trying to reach an optimal outcome
Speaker 2: for everybody. But being able to identify and say, hey,
Speaker 2: right now, I need to pull back a little bit
Speaker 2: with my emotional assertiveness and I need to push forward
Speaker 2: a little bit more with some of these other competencies
Speaker 2: that are going to help me gain trust and build
Speaker 2: the hearts and minds of the local populace, and win
Speaker 2: the hearts and minds of the local populace, and gain
Speaker 2: access and intel so that we can go in to
Speaker 2: execute the DA mission, the direct action mission, you know.
Speaker 1: Right after this, Spradlin says, the science behind all of
Speaker 1: this is constantly evolving, but she is quick to stress
Speaker 1: that most of this science is not subjective at all.
Speaker 1: She says, it is intensely data driven.
Speaker 2: Most of my research is data driven, so lots of
Speaker 2: ones and zeros, you know, lots of assessments that individuals
Speaker 2: have taken, lots of assessments, and you know, we get
Speaker 2: all the raw data on those assessments. They're very comprehensive,
Speaker 2: and we you know, we take that data and we
Speaker 2: run it through all kinds of you know, software and
Speaker 2: factor analysis and figuring out what right looks like in
Speaker 2: terms of laying it against norms or you know, expectations
Speaker 2: of our own expectations and then norms of you know,
Speaker 2: data that has set a precedent. So I do work
Speaker 2: with a lot of data. But then likewise, the feedback
Speaker 2: and you know, the discussions and feedback that we have
Speaker 2: documented from one on one discussions, small group discussions has
Speaker 2: really been invaluable. I mean that context that we overlay
Speaker 2: against the data is really that's powerful. I mean we
Speaker 2: can look at numbers and we can think we see something,
Speaker 2: but to then get the conceptual or excuse me, the
Speaker 2: conversational feedback provides context to the data and adds a
Speaker 2: lot more credence to it.
Speaker 1: So what has she learned, especially about females special operators?
Speaker 1: Spradlin says, unlike other branches of the armed forces, people
Speaker 1: don't necessarily enter the Marine Corps planning to be in
Speaker 1: special operations.
Speaker 2: If we talk about special operations at large, right soft
Speaker 2: at large, the process is most often, you know, you
Speaker 2: get recruited, and the Marines are really unique because we
Speaker 2: only inside of Marsok, we only take marines that are
Speaker 2: already in the Marine Corps. The other services they actually
Speaker 2: recruit straight from the street and they say, you want
Speaker 2: to join the Navy, do you want to go straight
Speaker 2: into a NSW pipeline And they're like, yeah, great, Well marines,
Speaker 2: we make you still go through all of the You
Speaker 2: got to go to boot camp, you got to go
Speaker 2: to MCT, you got to get your MOS and then
Speaker 2: after you've got some experience on your belt, then you
Speaker 2: can apply to marstock assessment and selections. So it's a
Speaker 2: different pipeline, right, But for all intents and purposes, you
Speaker 2: get recruited, you go through some kind of selection process,
Speaker 2: and then after that you go through a follow on
Speaker 2: training before before you go out. And I think that
Speaker 2: for the most part, in hindsight, candidates go, Okay, I
Speaker 2: should have seen that coming or I should have expected that,
Speaker 2: but in the moment they don't, And that's intentional. The
Speaker 2: soft assessment pipeline is very intentionally unexpected.
Speaker 1: One of the most scrutinized issues, of course, is the
Speaker 1: interaction between male and female special operators. Spradlin says, well,
Speaker 1: there are many obvious differences between men and women. It's
Speaker 1: what they have in common that bonds them together.
Speaker 2: That's a lot to unpack, so I think, I mean,
Speaker 2: and I can only speak through my lens in my
Speaker 2: area of expertise, what's been most enlightening is that there's
Speaker 2: a standard and everybody respects the standard, and so the
Speaker 2: females are not looking for the standard to be modified,
Speaker 2: and the men are receptive to the notion that if
Speaker 2: you meet the standard, the collective standard, there's not just one,
Speaker 2: then welcome, right And quite frankly, if we as the women,
Speaker 2: don't meet the standard, then we don't want to be
Speaker 2: there because we recognize we don't rate to be in
Speaker 2: that community. And I think the women that navigate that
Speaker 2: journey respect the standard, and the men that have already
Speaker 2: set the standard, you know, they maintain a sense of
Speaker 2: integrity of the standard and they appreciate it as well.
Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of value to that,
Speaker 2: you know, just being able to separate the facts from
Speaker 2: the feelings, if you will. And as far as the
Speaker 2: most challenging piece, I think we have a long way
Speaker 2: to go with still understanding the nuances of both physiological
Speaker 2: and emotional support needs. Of women in service. You know,
Speaker 2: we are different, Our bodies are different. As we age,
Speaker 2: we navigate different things, and and and there's we have
Speaker 2: a long way to go in order to optimize that
Speaker 2: interdisciplinary support of women medically and psychologically, in order to
Speaker 2: truly optimize them to integrate into SOFT so that I mean,
Speaker 2: those resources need to be there so that we can
Speaker 2: make them stronger and in preventative medicine and you know,
Speaker 2: anticipated things with you know, along the way to to
Speaker 2: really again optimize those women so that they'll best serve it.
Speaker 2: You know, if they if they make the standard in
Speaker 2: their part of SOFT, in whatever form or fashion, they're
Speaker 2: absolutely at peak performance.
Speaker 1: This science is still in its early stages. But in
Speaker 1: addition to caring for the well being of special operators,
Speaker 1: another clear goal of this research is to make these
Speaker 1: operators as effective as possible. So what are the results?
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I see us. You know,
Speaker 2: the work that we've done, specifically as it relates to
Speaker 2: integrating EI training and development, emotional intelligence training and development
Speaker 2: into the curriculum, I see it being a variable that
Speaker 2: is going to help create improvements in cotif right, preservation
Speaker 2: of force, and family bringing this in eis as a
Speaker 2: fundamental I mean as a staple, right, not just like
Speaker 2: an idea, but bringing it in as a staple for
Speaker 2: soft it is going to help build a foundation. That is,
Speaker 2: it's going to have these secondary and tertiary effects, positive
Speaker 2: effects on building a stronger preservation of force and family.
Speaker 2: It's going to help mitigate some of the mental health
Speaker 2: issues that we continue to work towards mitigating. It's not
Speaker 2: going to eradicate it, but it'll certainly help mitigate some
Speaker 2: of it as we give them these tools to work
Speaker 2: on on their own and with their team. As a
Speaker 2: leader as a soft force, I think it's going to
Speaker 2: help more of these operators get to the top of
Speaker 2: Maslow's hierarchy, if you would, and really be able to
Speaker 2: look back and with a sense of not just self actualization,
Speaker 2: but sense of self transcendence where they can actually now
Speaker 2: see themselves and others and just very selflessly give back.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to get us there faster, even
Speaker 2: if that means it's another one hundred years. I think
Speaker 2: it's going to help get.
Speaker 1: Us there faster. Now thriving in the private sector, Spradlin
Speaker 1: says she always wants to be collaborating with the armed
Speaker 1: forces in some way.
Speaker 2: My business model is to make sure that we've always
Speaker 2: got a client inside of the government, inside of corporate,
Speaker 2: if you would, and then an institution of higher learning,
Speaker 2: so that we maintain a connection with all those different
Speaker 2: areas of professionals. You know, I've still been working with
Speaker 2: so Calm, doing a lot of great work with so Calm,
Speaker 2: do a lot of work with DHS, Department of Homeland,
Speaker 2: So continue to stay within, you know, definitely keep ties
Speaker 2: constantly with so Calm. It's been wonderful.
Speaker 1: And she says seeing the military now embracing research that
Speaker 1: once seemed very foreign brings her great satisfaction.
Speaker 2: I had a very magical moment this week. I was
Speaker 2: invited at the beginning of this week to come teach
Speaker 2: emotional intelligence at National Defense University to the senior leaders
Speaker 2: in the Eisenhearer School at the Strategic Leadership Program. And
Speaker 2: you know, sitting back and reflecting on kind of the
Speaker 2: idea that over a dec fifteen years ago, ish I
Speaker 2: introduced this concept of EI and everybody was like, what, No,
Speaker 2: nobody wants to talk about EI. Nobody wants what is this?
Speaker 2: We're not talking emotion in SOCOM and that fifteen years later,
Speaker 2: I've been asked to introduce this to the most senior leaders,
Speaker 2: you know, those individuals that are going on to take
Speaker 2: six command across all four services, at all of the
Speaker 2: three letter agencies foreign governments, and that we have now
Speaker 2: gotten to a point where they are bought in top down,
Speaker 2: because that's what we need, right top down, bottom up
Speaker 2: buy in. That was very magical and I'm very proud.
Speaker 2: That moment made me proud for the collective. I mean,
Speaker 2: we really broke through on that, and that was a
Speaker 2: big deal. And in that course, Second Lieutenant Nicole Bashton
Speaker 2: was a second lieutenant of mine at PA school and
Speaker 2: I was the faculty advisor, as I had mentioned, and
Speaker 2: she was a colonel in this course at NDU, and
Speaker 2: she got a chance twenty years later to introduce me,
Speaker 2: you know, just coming full circle right, that self transcendence
Speaker 2: kind of concept and you know, you gave here and
Speaker 2: you're giving back here and they're giving just as much
Speaker 2: back to you without anybody realizing it was. That's a
Speaker 2: pretty neat recent moment.
Speaker 1: Spradland also points out that the work she ended up
Speaker 1: doing in the Marine Corps and the work she does
Speaker 1: now is completely different than anything she imagined when she
Speaker 1: began her time in the Marines, and she hopes that
Speaker 1: will resonate with young people.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great, Well, it's very humbling. It's very humbling, especially
Speaker 2: to know some of the people that were in the
Speaker 2: room with you know here, it's very humbling. I'm very
Speaker 2: grateful and at the end of the day, somebody listens
Speaker 2: to it. Just you know, to sit back and appreciate
Speaker 2: that you don't have to know what your path is
Speaker 2: going to be, but just be intentionally passionate at whatever
Speaker 2: it is you are good at and just do you
Speaker 2: because you love it, and it'll take you just some
Speaker 2: incredible places with some incredible people.
Speaker 1: That's Captain and doctor Sarah Spradlin. She is a US
Speaker 1: Marine Corps veteran and a leading figure in the integration
Speaker 1: of emotional intelligence into special operations. I'm Greg Corumbus and
Speaker 1: this is Veterans Chronicles. Hi, this is Greg Corumbus, and
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to Veterans Chronicles, a presentation of the
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