WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:16.280 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 2 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.199 this edition is Captain Sarah Spradlin. She's a veteran of 3 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:23.960 the US Marine Corps serving with the Marine Forces Special 4 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:28.559 Operations Command. She is now Doctor Sarah Spradlin, a leading 5 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:33.159 researcher into the importance of emotional intelligence in special operations 6 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:38.000 and especially female special operators. She joins me today to 7 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:41.679 discuss her time on active duty and the groundbreaking scientific 8 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:45.920 work she's now been doing for years. Sarah Spradlin was 9 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.759 born and raised in the Chicago suburbs, and she came 10 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:52.719 to appreciate military service at a young age. Her dad 11 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:56.520 served as a Russian linguist doing military intelligence during the 12 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:00.520 Cold War, and several aunts and uncles also served with honor. 13 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:04.519 Spradlin says the stories from her dad's service inspired her, 14 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:08.280 along with a desire to see the world, learn new things, 15 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:12.359 and meet interesting people. But she says, deciding to become 16 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:15.719 a Marine is a separate and unique calculation. 17 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.680 The Marine Corps, in particular, is one of those things 18 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:22.319 where when you wake up, you don't decide and ask yourself, 19 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:24.840 am I going to join the service? You just kind 20 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:26.640 of say if I'm joining the service, I want to 21 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.040 be a Marine. I don't want to necessarily pick a service. 22 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:32.159 I want to be a marine. It's very much in 23 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.799 your blood. It's difficult to explain why you choose the 24 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:37.640 Marine Corps because I think you choose to be a 25 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:39.680 marine as opposed to choosing a branch. 26 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:42.560 And by the mid to late nineties, Spradlin was spending 27 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:45.719 her college years preparing to be a Marine Corps officer. 28 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.000 In ROTC. 29 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.159 I went through Virginia Tech Corps cadets talk about history 30 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:53.560 and legacy. When I was at Virginia Tech, the deputy 31 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:58.000 commandant was Colonel Wesley Fox, and so I had the 32 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:02.480 absolute honor of having Colonel Wesley Fox as a mentor 33 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:05.439 of mine and especially as a Marine option. Mitchipman that 34 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:07.439 that's pretty incredible. 35 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.199 You heard Spradland mentioned Colonel Wesley Fox. By the time 36 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.439 he was at Virginia Tech, Fox was already a Marine 37 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:17.639 Corps legend. He was a veteran of both the Korean 38 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:21.759 and Vietnam Wars, was wounded in both, and received the 39 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:24.240 Medal of Honor for his heroism at the Battle of 40 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:29.080 Dewey Canyon in Vietnam in nineteen sixty nine. Spradland says 41 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.919 learning from a man of Fox's experience and wisdom was 42 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:34.240 invaluable to her. 43 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:38.639 I think about this concept of soft operators, and you 44 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.840 know tip of the spear in the Silent Warrior, where 45 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:44.960 you don't you don't boast, you don't run around, you 46 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:47.960 lead by example. You do it quietly, behind the scenes, 47 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.960 you know, shaping the environment, shaping a narrative for a 48 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.080 positive outcome. And that's really what he did without me 49 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.680 even realizing it. You know, twenty five years ago, Colonel Fox, 50 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:04.360 after you know, forty years of service, came over to 51 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.759 continue to serve as the deputy commandant, and he would 52 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.000 he would get up and the raider platoon, the Marine 53 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:13.639 midshipman we would, you know, get up for pet and 54 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:15.599 Colonel Fox would be up and he would already be 55 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.439 running around the drill field is what we called it 56 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.240 at Virginia Tech. He'd already be out there running around, 57 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:28.120 or he'd be gardening in the heat with udt shorts 58 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.360 on and a pith helmet like in his late sixties 59 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.639 and just quietly just making stuff happen in a very 60 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:39.599 just arduous you know, the weather and everything, and he 61 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.560 just was. He was probably a great example of you know, 62 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.360 that silent warrior who really lived by example, and I 63 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:50.120 had the opportunity to soak all that in at a 64 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:51.159 very early age. 65 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:54.719 Spradland graduated from Virginia Tech in May of two thousand 66 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:57.400 and one and was commissioned as an officer in the 67 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:01.240 Marine Corps. Just four months later. Of course, the US 68 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.080 found itself at war as a result of the nine 69 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:08.840 to eleven terrorist attacks. Spradlin explains how the already intense 70 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.120 military culture intensified even more. 71 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:16.800 Before nine to eleven, in particular, going through the RTC program, 72 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:24.800 we were in this non heightened combat deployment stage, if 73 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:28.480 you would, and that ebbs and flows throughout history. And 74 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:33.480 so I can remember one time as a freshman at 75 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:39.319 Virginia Tech when the staff got up and addressed all 76 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.160 of the cadets and said, we're going to be really 77 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.600 real and really raw with you right now. In ten 78 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.639 years from now, ten percent of you are not going 79 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:53.399 to be here KIA training, accident, in service, whatever that 80 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:56.759 looks like. But statistically, look around, because ten percent of 81 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:58.439 you are not going to be here. Of your peers 82 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:00.560 amongst all four of the branches in the the ROTC 83 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.639 program and in that moment it doesn't register, and you're 84 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:09.920 young and you're motivated. However, once nine to eleven happened, 85 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.399 I was at TBS, I was at the Basic School, 86 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:17.519 I was at Quantico, and our XO called everybody in 87 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:23.360 to the auditorium to brief us. And after nine to eleven, 88 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.519 I think that that concept of why those statistics were 89 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:32.600 introduced to us really resonated in an appreciation of we 90 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:36.800 had switched. We had gone from you know, a geopolitical 91 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.879 state of non deployment in aggregate in like with mass deployments, 92 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:43.439 and that was it like we had switched and the 93 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.319 ten percent was coming and it wasn't just ten percent 94 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.199 at this point there was. It was a lot more 95 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:51.040 than ten percent that we lost out of that class 96 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:53.800 over the next ten years. I think that was probably 97 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.720 for me an interesting kind of lever of change in 98 00:05:57.800 --> 00:05:59.759 perspective of things from pre to post nine. 99 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.720 To eleven, Spradland would not be sent to a war zone. Instead, 100 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:06.639 her first overseas assignment was in Okinawa. 101 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.600 So after the schooling, I went to Okinawa. I was 102 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.879 at third FSSG, so I was the age at third FSSG, 103 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.240 which was unique because as a second lieutenant, I should 104 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.120 have gone to a battalion, right if you think about 105 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:21.279 a traditional route, I should have gone to a battalion, 106 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:24.920 But I went to the group level, and so I 107 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.720 got an early perspective of things at a little bit 108 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:31.759 more of a strategic level, which really kind of think 109 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.079 perpetuated a path that I went down where I never 110 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:37.639 ended up at a battalion per se. I just continued 111 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.360 to work at a little bit more of a strategic 112 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.319 manpower level as an adjutant. 113 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:46.000 But before long Spradland was back home and overseeing boot 114 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.920 camp at Paris Island for female recruits. 115 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:51.000 This was when we still had Fourth Battalion, when we 116 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:54.399 had our standalone female battalion. Fourth Battalion has since rolled 117 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:57.759 up its colors and it's integrated now, but this was 118 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:00.800 at a time when we had our standalone fourth Battalion 119 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:03.759 was all female, all female hats, all female officers, and 120 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.959 I went there and I was at Fourth Battalion with 121 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:11.199 Oscar Company for about a year, and then from there 122 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.759 I transitioned over to Support Battalion, where I took command 123 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:19.680 of a special training company. And Special Training Company is 124 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:24.279 was the largest training company on Paras Island, and it's 125 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:29.120 a conglomeration of all of the recruits who are they're 126 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.480 in a transition period, so they've been either pulled out 127 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.199 of training or they're waiting to go into training due 128 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:38.519 to some type of illness or injury or mental health concern, 129 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.720 or their physicality isn't meeting the standard yet, and we 130 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:46.519 had to get them inside of those standards, whether it's 131 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.040 you know, pull ups, runtime weight swim call things of that. 132 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:53.399 And then there's a whole nother unit within Special Training 133 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.720 Company that was interesting, which is called the Basic Marine Platoon, 134 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:00.720 and those are marines. They've graduated book, but they can't 135 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:02.959 go on to marine combat training yet, and so they're 136 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.439 inside there too. So that was a really neat experience 137 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.319 because I had twenty plus at all times, male and 138 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:16.920 female drill instructors navigating really unique dynamics of recruit needs 139 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.279 and trying to align that to the overall mission of 140 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:24.360 you know, of Paris Island, of we want to increase retention. 141 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.800 We want to get as many through and graduated as possible, 142 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.680 so no matter how sick they are, we want to 143 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.240 heal them and get them back in training, no matter 144 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.279 how hurt they are, injured. You know, no matter how 145 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.080 much they don't want to be here, we want to 146 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.799 convince them that they need to be here. And so 147 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.799 that that was a really neat unit that I was at. 148 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:47.039 While at Paris Island, Spradland began working with others to 149 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:51.480 streamline manpower in order to avoid having to bring officers 150 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:56.279 and non commissioned officers out of downrange assignments for further training. 151 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.679 That work led to the development of a special training 152 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.039 court and the next step in Spradland's career. 153 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.399 And so we're at PA school and we built this 154 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.759 strategic Manpower Officer course we called the mock Course Manpower 155 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.559 Us our Course, and it was really great, and we'd 156 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.639 run through about three or four iterations. And at that point, 157 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:19.799 I was actually pregnant with my second daughter, and I 158 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.159 was getting close to that ten year mark, and I 159 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.279 kind of had to take a step back and ask myself, 160 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:27.399 am I going to stay in after the ten year 161 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.799 mark or am I going to transition? You know, I 162 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.639 had a lot of guilt, a lot of missed opportunities 163 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:37.879 with my kids, and so I kind of floated this 164 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.320 idea that I was looking for a change. I didn't 165 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:42.879 know what that change looked like. But I knew it 166 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:48.519 wasn't being deployed, being tad and being rushing to daycare 167 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:50.679 with my kids at five o'clock in the morning because 168 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.320 you know, I got to be at PT. So Marsak 169 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:55.080 had stood up and things had kind of started to 170 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:57.799 come to fruition with you know, how where are we 171 00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:00.440 going with this? It wasn't just debt one right. Things 172 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:04.000 were starting to build at that point. And I served 173 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.159 as the retiring officer for a guny sergeant from PA 174 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:11.399 School and about ten days later I get a phone 175 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.279 call after the retirement and again he was like, hey, 176 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:16.519 you heard this thing called Marsac And I was like, yeah, 177 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:18.000 you know, I've kind of got an idea. They're like, 178 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.320 all right, well, here's the deal. We're formally making things happen. 179 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.840 We're in trailers in gravel parking lot over here at 180 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.559 Stone Bay. For all intents and purposes. We have a 181 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.240 piece of paper that says these are the billets that 182 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.039 the Head Corps Marine Corps is going to give us 183 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:38.000 a bunch of you know, Grandfather Force recom Boba's in 184 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.879 a bunch of GS positions. We're going to come together 185 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:42.559 and we're going to turn this into MARSOK and we're 186 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.080 going to grow it, but we need people who can 187 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.519 work strategic manpower. And so, you know, I share that 188 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.759 backstory with you of you know, we built this course 189 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:55.360 and it was really just incredible just happenstance opportunity that 190 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.399 you believe in something and you build it and then 191 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.639 it takes it takes on a lot of its own 192 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.879 and so they said, you want to come over here 193 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:09.360 and help build the force and help run the administration 194 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.679 and manpower initiatives for the schoolhouse. 195 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.759 That's US Marine Corps veteran and Captain Sarah Spradlin. She's 196 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:19.720 now doctor Spradlin, focusing on the value of emotional intelligence 197 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.720 and special operators. Well hear how her shift to Marsock 198 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:26.720 led to the work she does now, how that work 199 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.120 is done and the impact it has on the effectiveness 200 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:36.000 of special operators. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles. 201 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.519 Sixty Seconds of Service. This sixty Seconds of Service is 202 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.919 presented by T Mobile. T Mobile offers exclusive discounts for 203 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:45.960 a veteran and military families and are proud supporters of 204 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.279 the National Defense Network. Visit t mobile dot com slash 205 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.919 Military to learn more about how they support our military community. 206 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.000 In Chicago, Army veteran Richard Mitchell wanted to make a 207 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.559 difference in the lives of young people. Drawing on the 208 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:01.720 leadership and discipline he learned in the military, Richard created 209 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.440 a mentorship program for at risk youth. The program pairs 210 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.559 young people with veterans, offering guidance on academics, career choices, 211 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.879 and personal development. Through weekly meetings and outdoor activities, Richard 212 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.240 and other veterans provide valuable life skills that help steer 213 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.720 youth away from crime and toward brighter futures. The program 214 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:23.360 has already helped over one hundred kids stay on track 215 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.639 and graduate high school. Today's sixty Seconds of Service is 216 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:29.639 brought to you by Prevagen. Prevagen is the number one 217 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.200 pharmacist recommended memory support brand. You can find Prevagen in 218 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.639 the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. 219 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.720 This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 220 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.600 this edition is Captain Sarah Spradlin. She's a US Marine 221 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.159 Corps veteran who oversaw the Paris Island drilling of marine 222 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:51.799 recruits in the all female fourth Battalion. She also helped 223 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:56.879 to develop the cutting Edge Manpower Officer Course. Shortly after that, 224 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.799 Spradlin left to become part of the Marine Forces Special 225 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:05.840 Operations Command otherwise known as MARSAK. It was in that 226 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.320 position that Spradland started to look into the emotional intelligence 227 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:14.200 of special operators and pioneer various types of research in 228 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.840 areas where the Marine Corps had not focused much in 229 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:21.200 the past. Now it's become Spradland's focus in the private sector, 230 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:26.519 but that path required several steps. First, Spradlin explains how 231 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.399 our time at MARSAK led to the questions and eventually 232 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.279 the search for answers on some of these questions. 233 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.759 So I had mentioned that assessment in selection was inside 234 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.720 of the schoolhouse at the time. You know, a big 235 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.799 part of what I was doing was filling these rosters 236 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:47.320 of you know, what capabilities do these different things need 237 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:49.679 and how do I get them? How do I grow 238 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.440 them if we don't have them? How do we grow 239 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.559 them if we don't have them? So I'm really focused 240 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:59.600 on making sure that the assessment in selection folks are 241 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.320 constantstantly getting all the cadre that they need right that 242 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:05.480 every time they do an evolution, they have the right 243 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.480 people in the right place, and we're pulling them in 244 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:12.840 from the conventional forces around Camp Lajune and just making 245 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.360 sure that they have all of those right people in 246 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.200 order to assess and select. And so as I'm doing this, 247 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.679 I had the opportunity to go up and work at 248 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:25.679 the locations where they're doing the assessment and selection. So 249 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:32.919 by proxy, I'm watching and listening to the process, the expectations, 250 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:38.200 the characteristics and capabilities that they're looking for to select 251 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:42.519 what right looks like in a Marsac operator. Over time, 252 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.120 I'm watching this change and all these massinations of Okay, 253 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:48.320 we want to look for this, and we need a 254 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.799 guy that looks like that. And then that kind of 255 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:53.679 shifted and said, all right, well, no, I think as 256 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.000 we evolve, we need them to look a little more 257 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:00.159 like this right and all these different incredible attributes. And 258 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.559 at the same time, I was going back to school 259 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.480 and I was working on my doctorate in industrial organizational psychology. 260 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.600 And as I'm going through courses and doing the research 261 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.039 of you know number of things, I started to feel 262 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.879 like as we were kind of evolving this concept of 263 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.399 what right looks like in terms of hiring right the 264 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.159 first time for an operator inside of Marsok in particular, 265 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.559 I started to see that we had these kind of 266 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.240 these three pots of requirements that we were looking at. 267 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.960 And the first one was the physicality piece, right, I mean, 268 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.200 you got to be able to run so fast, you know, 269 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:39.080 all these these specific things, and it's objectively, we can 270 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.039 measure it. There's a time and you got to run 271 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.240 this far this fast. Then there's another pot and it 272 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:49.320 is really that cognitive intellect. And again you know, very objectively, 273 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.679 we can measure these things objectively. There's legacy assessments and 274 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:56.720 you know, these are individuals that we're going to ask 275 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.519 them to operate very complex weapons systems that they may 276 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.799 have never used before. We requires a very high level 277 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.960 of intellect. But then there was this third pod of 278 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:10.600 competencies and it was not clean. It was very dichotomous. 279 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:13.080 We're asking them, you know, we want to find somebody 280 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:14.679 that has all these things. Oh and by the way, 281 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.320 we want them to be a really, really good leader, 282 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:19.879 but we also want them to be an incredible follower, 283 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.519 and we want them to be really powerful in terms 284 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.879 of being able to get up, speak publicly influence the masses. 285 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:29.879 But we also want them to be able to just 286 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.480 soak it all in and be a great, active and 287 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.960 mindful listener so that they can gather intel and you know, 288 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:42.480 cautiously navigate different conversations. And so it's all these dichotomous behaviors. 289 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.600 We want them to be assertive and yet empathetic. We 290 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.600 want them right. And I mean, I could we could 291 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:49.600 talk about these these all day long. And I stepped 292 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.080 back and I said, you know what it looks like. 293 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:54.480 It sounds to me like what we're really looking for 294 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:58.960 is somebody who is incredibly physically fit in these parameters, 295 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:04.240 unique parame somebody who is cognitively intelligent, crystal and fluid intelligence, 296 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:09.319 and also emotionally and socially intelligent, which doesn't mean they're 297 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.559 nice and happy all the time. It means that they 298 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:16.559 understand how to identify, assess, and manage emotional information in 299 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.160 the right time to reach the optimal outcome in the 300 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.079 best interest of all vested parties right and do these 301 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.119 kind of push and pull of this emotional information that 302 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.200 they're getting from themselves and others. And so at that 303 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:32.480 point is really was a big transition where I started 304 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.839 to do a lot of research on the influence of 305 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.640 emotional intelligence in hiring right the first time, in selecting 306 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:43.200 qualified applicants, and what that looked like for a cross 307 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:48.160 section of SOCOM candidates in their selection and then their 308 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.720 subsequent development process as leaders. 309 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.640 Given the progress Spradland was making on her work, a 310 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.519 jump to the private sector was not even on her radar. 311 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:00.599 She was more than happy to stay at MARSAK. Eventually, 312 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:04.079 she was presented with an opportunity that she simply could 313 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.759 not refuse. 314 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:09.119 No, it definitely evolved. I mean when I initially got 315 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:12.640 off active duty to go to MARSAC, I thought I 316 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.359 was going to die as a GS at SOCOM. I mean, 317 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.880 I was, you know, I was in it for the 318 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.079 long haul. I wasn't expecting to then transition out and 319 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.599 you know, solely focus outside. I mean, I still wanted 320 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.319 to pursue the education while I was in, but I 321 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.359 didn't think that it would take me on my own 322 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.880 journey of a consulting firm and taking that journey. 323 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.720 That's US Marine Corps veteran Captain Sarah Spradlin, now doctor 324 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:43.359 Sarah Spradlin. Up next. Spradlin will share how she started 325 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.599 researching the mindset and emotional intelligence of women in special 326 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:53.759 operations basically from scratch. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is 327 00:18:53.880 --> 00:19:00.480 Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our 328 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:04.200 guest in this addition is Captain and doctor Sarah Spradlin. 329 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.279 She is a US Marine Corps veteran who served in 330 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.960 the Marine Forces Special Operations Command. She's also a pioneer 331 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.960 in studying and applying emotional intelligence in the advancement of 332 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.920 special operators. Spradlin explains how she got that science started. 333 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:26.240 Yeah, so as far as women and emotional intelligence, women's 334 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.359 soft operators and emotional intelligence for all intents and purposes, 335 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:33.599 there was none, right, I mean the concept might have 336 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.599 been alluded to, but you know, I mean like peer 337 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.119 reviewed studies on that particular dynamic. Really the research just 338 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.279 didn't exist. And I think that's when we really stepped 339 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:47.240 back and said, you know, we go back to the 340 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.000 like soft truths. Like the first you know, first soft 341 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.079 truth is, hands down, humans are more important than hardware. 342 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.720 But in the definition of that soft truth, it talks 343 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.839 about the right people being put in the right teams 344 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:05.799 with the right capabilities, doesn't say anywhere about men. It 345 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:09.440 doesn't say anything about physicality alone, and so I think 346 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.640 collectively that the understanding that so Come works at the 347 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.160 tip of the spear, and so Come, you know, understands 348 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:19.400 that it is so much more than just being a 349 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:22.920 snake eating knuckle dragon kind of you know, tough guy. 350 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.400 It takes so much more than that to execute the 351 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.240 operations and the tasks that are levied upon the soft community. 352 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.839 And so with that in mind, really thought, you know, 353 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.640 how do we take this fundamental concept that's backed by 354 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:44.519 years of neuroscience and cognitive and behavioral psychology and behavioral 355 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.880 economics and sociology and anthropology. How do we take this 356 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:54.160 and really pull apart and study these hypotheses on just 357 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:58.480 to what extent is this fundamental value of EI as 358 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:03.440 it relates to all of the opportunities for personnel inside 359 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.079 of soft and then have it collectively come together as 360 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.160 a team. And what does that look like for women, 361 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.960 what does it look like for men? Who needs which competencies? 362 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.759 And how do we put those puzzle pieces together so 363 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:18.880 that the ability to identify, assess, and manage that you know, 364 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.759 I mean just unconscious and conscious emotional information that's driving 365 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:27.359 everything becomes a part of that puzzle that really actually 366 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:34.240 like bolsters and evolves the underpinning of the first soft truth, 367 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.920 which is, you know, putting the right people in the 368 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.759 right teams together because humans are more important than hardware. 369 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.799 Spradlind says, one of the pillars of this research is 370 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.680 realizing that emotional intelligence is pivotal to the success of 371 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.519 special operations, just like physical ability. 372 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:55.680 Is absolutely I mean the psychopathy of just selecting the 373 00:21:55.759 --> 00:22:00.279 right people and then you know, developing them into of 374 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.480 you know, a framework that is going to establish and 375 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:08.279 sustain resilience in a like a VUKA environmental volatile and 376 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:13.119 uncertain and chaotic and ambiguous environment is certainly psychology is 377 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:14.400 certainly fundamental to it. Yeah. 378 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.759 She also elaborated on how special operators are now more 379 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.400 aware of the need to pick team members that complement 380 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:26.279 each other and not simply search for the exact same qualities. 381 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:31.039 One hundred percent. Yeah, and for those individuals to have 382 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:35.680 the ability to know that, yes, these are my natural strengths, 383 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.279 but I also know how to pull back and push 384 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.599 forward with other ones that you have in case you're 385 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.279 not there, and I recognize that I could use you 386 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.920 right now and you're not here, so I'm going to 387 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.920 kind of channel my inner view, and I'm I know 388 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.160 how to with a positive intent, right And that's really 389 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.079 important because this isn't about manipulation, It's about a positive intent, 390 00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.119 you know, and really trying to reach an optimal outcome 391 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:01.960 for everybody. But being able to identify and say, hey, 392 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:03.880 right now, I need to pull back a little bit 393 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.559 with my emotional assertiveness and I need to push forward 394 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:09.720 a little bit more with some of these other competencies 395 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:14.279 that are going to help me gain trust and build 396 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:16.640 the hearts and minds of the local populace, and win 397 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:18.960 the hearts and minds of the local populace, and gain 398 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.920 access and intel so that we can go in to 399 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.440 execute the DA mission, the direct action mission, you know. 400 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.599 Right after this, Spradlin says, the science behind all of 401 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:34.160