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Speaker 3: When your old career gives you lemons throwing some ice

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mix in some vodka. Call it a podcast from the

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Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by

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Victor Chrysler Dots. Gee Brahm, It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Well, hello and welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you forgetting your pot on. Thanks for telling a friend.

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That's how we spread the word about the pirate ship.

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Danny is not feel tonight, but he had said to me, Hey,

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I ran into somebody you know, and he said he

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wouldn't mind coming on the pod, and that would be

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Mark Grub.

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Speaker 2: I go grooves.

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Speaker 1: It's been forever since I've seen grooves. And two I

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guess I should say two former media personalities in town, right,

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I think that's fair.

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Speaker 2: That's fair. Mark. Now, what are you at?

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Speaker 1: Triple A Western New York and Central New York?

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Speaker 4: YEP, Triple A Western and Central New York. And I

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am a pr guy. Oh okay, I am all right.

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Speaker 1: So you get out there, so you get to be

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the pretty face that comes out and tell us list

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the travel conditions, right, you know where to go, what

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to do. By the way, triple A A great little

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thing to have in your pocket.

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Speaker 4: No doubt about it, especially this time he winter we've had.

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You don't want to be stuck on the roadside.

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Speaker 1: There's been when did winter show? I like it showed

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up in January, all of a sudden, it just came.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting.

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Speaker 4: I've talked to a couple of people about it that

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I think this really has been a pretty normal winter

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when you look at the stats.

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Speaker 2: It is, but because the last couple of.

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Speaker 4: Years have been so unusually mild, that suddenly we're like, whoa,

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what's going on?

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Speaker 2: What's happening here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm you know, we turned that calendar to March.

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I'm ready to move on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, you know, I am too.

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Speaker 4: I don't mind if it comes in like a lion,

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just go out like a lamb.

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Speaker 1: So we've Mark is from originally from where in New Jersey, Westfield, Westfield,

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Northern Jersey, Northern Jersey and about twenty miles outside Manhattan. Okay,

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So and I grew up about ninety miles North in

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New York City of New York City, in New York State.

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So two people from downstate, you end up here and

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you dis like it, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well that place grows on you, it does. When

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I moved here, I literally knew no one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The only people that I knew when I moved here

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were the news director at channelten, Bill Seitzler, wild Bill

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back in the day, and Rich Funky.

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Speaker 2: Those are the two people I'd.

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Speaker 4: Interviewed with when I flew up here at interview. This

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was November of ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So when.

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Speaker 4: I packed up a U haul, Yeah, came north from

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West Virginia.

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Speaker 2: That's where I was. You were in West Virginia, Bluefield.

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Speaker 4: West Virginia, small TV station in Bluefield. Came up here

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to become the weekend sports guy at Channel ten. Yes,

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those were the only two people I knew.

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Speaker 2: All right, So let's.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back a little bit here. Because always wanted

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to be on.

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Speaker 4: TV, you know, I think I always wanted to be

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involved in sports.

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Speaker 1: Always want to be involved in sports. That Okay, what

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did your mom and dad do?

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Speaker 4: So my dad worked in Manhattan, He worked on the street.

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Speaker 2: He was a mortgage broker, okay. And my mom was

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a stay at home mom.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you lived in Jersey. You go big school,

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I would assume that's a pretty populated area.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I went to a private day school. Okay.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my dad, you know, did well when I was

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a kid. And you know, I went to public school

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through sixth grade, and then seventh through.

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Speaker 2: Twelfth I was at private day school. Yeah, or the Heartridge.

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That's very Uh that's nice, isn't it. Yeah, it was great,

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it was.

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Speaker 1: And then you go, now during that time, any exposure

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to TV or sports broadcasting or anything in that those high.

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Speaker 2: School years, not really you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, obviously I was totally into it. I watched

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sports religiously. I played sports religiously, but I you know,

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that felt unattainable at that point in my life. It

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was just something that was over there, he enjoyed. It

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was hard to imagine myself participating in it. When I

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got into college, I wrote for the school paper. I

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went to Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, wrote for the

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school paper there, became the sports editor, and at that

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point I began to think, you know, you know, maybe

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I'll be a sports writer. You know, you've got trying

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to find a gig at a paper and do my thing.

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Speaker 2: Did Trinity? What did you go to school for? So

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it's liberal arts school.

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Speaker 4: I didn't really have a plan going in like a

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lot of people back in the day. It was more

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about just kind of you know, you know, experiencing college

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and trying to figure it out on the fly. You know,

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I've got I've got one child in college. Now it's

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just a different game in the sense that you know,

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when you're sixteen, seventeen, eight years old, eighteen years old,

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there's so much pressure to have it figured out at

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their age now because college is such a huge investment.

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Yeah I do. You know, yeah, right,

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you know what I'm saying. I do.

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Speaker 4: But I didn't feel that pressure back then. I just

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kind of went there. I enjoyed it obviously, you know,

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I did the studying I had to do, but I

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had a good time.

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Speaker 2: I played on the soccer team there and that was

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what was.

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Speaker 1: What Division three D three. Yeah, but still that's a commitment.

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That's a to be a student athlete that I don't

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care at any level of the NCAA is a commitment.

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That's a job, your training and all that, and so

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you had to be pretty good man.

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Speaker 2: That was okay, all right, well that overstated it. It

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was good.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, though, because I want to veer off to

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the college thing just just a little bit, sure, because

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I love the liberal arts thing. And I'll tell you

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a story that people have heard a million times in

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the podcast and radio and everything. But I I think

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the liberal arts and the knowledge for the sake of

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knowledge is such a wonderful thing to have, and it's

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great as you get older you kind of see the

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benefit of that. You talk to my fifteen year old son,

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my youngest by a lot, he'll tell you that, you know,

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I don't care.

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Speaker 2: I just get the homeward. Yeah, why to make me

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do this?

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Speaker 4: I agree with you. You know, I've talked to so

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many aspiring journalists through the years. You know, people that

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you know intern for me, or you know, you go

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to classrooms and talk to students, and I told them,

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you know, for me, I was a history major in college. Okay,

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never took a communications class, yeah never, Yeah, But what

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I did was I wrote. You know, an endless stream

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of papers. Reading and writing is just drilled into me. Now,

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I was a sports writer. I wrote for the school paper.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 4: And you know, so there was a journalistic component there.

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Speaker 2: Well was the deal with the day school that you

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went to.

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Speaker 1: In terms of in terms of a lot of times

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like uh, I put on my kids through a private

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school too, the secondary school, and it was a lot

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of the same thing, but his was more.

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Speaker 2: Of a religious base. It was a Jesuit based school.

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Speaker 1: So, but the reading and writing stuff sometimes is a

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little more rigorous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that.

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Speaker 1: In the in the private school. And then nothing please,

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nothing against public school. I mean, I'm not knocking at all,

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nor am I. I'm just saying that your public school

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has to reach a mass amount here we can. It's

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a finite. You know, you want to pay, and you're

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you're buying a product almost you're buying a prep school.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: When I say I agree with you, I'm saying from

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my experience. Yeah, I felt like when I got to

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college that having uh you know, significant reading assignments and

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having papers that were five ten pages long. Yeah, it

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was not a new experience. You know, I'd been there

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and done it. The point that I would make about it,

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and the thing that I think is so transferable about

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those skills is that, you know, when you think of journalism,

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whether it's you know, broadcast, radio, print, whatever it is,

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you're talking about taking a large set of facts and

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distilling them down and sharing them with an audience, you know, viewers, listeners, readers,

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whatever it may be, in a way that's easily understood.

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Speaker 2: And so I.

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Speaker 4: Felt like, you know, that reading and writing and doing

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all that research and then distilling that information into a

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five page paper, ten page paper, whatever it was, was

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just building that skill set, it was, and what I

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ended up doing in television was just simply a just

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a shorter version of it, you know, where you had

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to drill down even deeper instead of a ten page paper.

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It was you know, in the beginning, when it was sports,

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it was you've watched a two hour basketball game, Give

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me the four baskets that tell the story of this game.

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It's the same skill set, it's just applied differently. And

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I pivoted into news later in my career. Same thing

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I always say, you know, you know, it's still an interview,

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whether you're interviewing the head coach of the Bills or

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the mayor of Rochester, right, you know, it's a function

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of conducting the interview, having a sense of what the

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right questions to ask are, listening to what they're saying,

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and applying the appropriate follow ups.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to hear you say that because I went

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to Fisher. I went for communications.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: I did the community college the two plus two, and

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the reason was I was not a good student, but

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I did well on some tests and things and got

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in everywhere, with the caveat that I had to prove

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to the college I.

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Speaker 2: Could handle the workload.

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Speaker 1: And my father knew I was voted most likely to

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be found looking for a party in ten years in

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my high school year of box. So my father said,

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you will drink your way out and get one shot

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on my dime. And I went to the community college

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and I didn't want to be home because I was

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the oldest and five years older than my sister and

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eight years older than my brother. So I was working

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all the time, and I we used the college radio station,

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and I dropped off a tape at a local station

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and they hired me, and so I got on and

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then I got on their rock station, and that was

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it was great. And then I went to Saint John

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Fisher and they had a communication program, but I had

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done a lot of the communications stuff that transferred from

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the community college, so I had to take a lot

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of the other courses, and you had to take philosophy

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or religion. And I wound up in like a four

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hundred level philosophy class after you know, the introductory levels

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you go through. And I loved that. I loved that,

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and I loved the history. I was a history minor,

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and I so I was already on the radio when

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I was a senior at Fisher, so that kind of

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had a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Of pizaze to it, right yep.

255
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Speaker 1: So I get asked to come back and speak to

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incoming freshmen, and this young lady says, if.

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Speaker 4: You guy was voted most likely to be found, Yeah,

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the party's way out.

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Speaker 1: I got back to speak and this young girl says,

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if you had to do it over again, major in communications,

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And no one's really answering, no one's jumping up the answer,

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and so they kind of go bill, And I said,

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and I said, and this is just the worst thing

264
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you could do at the college, at this college, for

265
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this communication class. But I was like this cocky twenty

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three year old kid. I didn't even I said, no,

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I said, I would encourage people to you can learn

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how to be far enough away from the microphone and

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operate if you really want to, you'll learn that stuff.

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But having something to say in the microphone is so

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important to know why the Eastern Bloc of Europe is

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the mess that it is and continues to be even

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here in twenty twenty four, twenty five we're talking to

274
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twenty twenty five, we're talking about Ukraine and right, so

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I mean all this stuff that you have to have

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some knowledge to be able to have to form the opinion,

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and you need to be able to critically think.

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Speaker 2: I was never invited back to speak again, but I

279
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stand by that.

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Speaker 1: Today I would have said it in a much prettier

281
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way or a kinder way, or said, you know what,

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the great thing about this college is it offers you

283
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so many other things that will support you in your

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communication dream.

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Speaker 4: You came to it eventually there, Yes, I did it,

286
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but it.

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Speaker 2: Took me to fifty three years old to be able

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to say that.

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Speaker 1: But my point is, like I just feel like college

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now is it's almost like a trade school in a

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sense because you got to get the job right out

292
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of there. What are you major and I wish it wasn't.

293
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And yes, that does sound spoiled in privileged college was

294
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that way, And I know people get mad when you

295
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say that, but you know what, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I.

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Speaker 2: Understand what you're saying. It's okay. I mean, it's okay

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that it was.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, there's plenty of people that should

300
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you know, the trades are where you should be going anyway.

301
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Speaker 2: We can have that conversation as well. But you're right.

302
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Speaker 4: I mean, the thing that I noticed as a parent

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going on college tours versus as the kid the student

304
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is you know today it's all about they understand these

305
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colleges that they have to deliver.

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Speaker 2: An ROI yeah, you know, return on.

307
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Speaker 4: They have to understand that they have to impress upon

308
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you that in four years your child's going to walk

309
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out and they're going to be able to walk into

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what it is they want to do. And if they

311
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cannot convince you it that's true, they feel they're going

312
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to lose you in the process. And there was none

313
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of that going on when I went to college, and

314
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that was the first thing from my mind, and I

315
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don't think my parents were really focused on it at all.

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Speaker 2: Either.

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Speaker 4: It was more about finding a fit in a place

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where you felt comfortable, that offered the kinds of things

319
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you were interested in, and then grow from there.

320
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Speaker 2: And I would have to say, I al must feel

321
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:33,840
like that's better, don't you. Well?

322
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Speaker 4: I enjoyed it, and I do think there's a lot

323
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to be said for it. I guess the ultimate take

324
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here is that there's no one path.

325
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Speaker 2: There's nothing like.

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Speaker 4: My wife has a master from Syracuse and communications.

327
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Speaker 2: She went to New House.

328
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Speaker 4: She was a top student there, and she understands things

329
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about communications that I don't because I never studied it.

330
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You know, everything that I know about is I learned

331
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on the fly.

332
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Speaker 2: While I was in college.

333
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Speaker 4: My senior year, I did an internship at a TV station.

334
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One of the guys on the soccer team had done

335
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:12,480
it easya. I mean that was the CELLA and I'm like,

336
00:15:12,919 --> 00:15:13,879
I could use one of those.

337
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Speaker 2: I'm in, Yeah, this will help the GPA, let's do it.

338
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And I went in there.

339
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Speaker 4: First day, I logged a Yukon Boston College basketball game.

340
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It was like a four o'clock tip, six o'clock news

341
00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:28,519
comes on, so the game ended right for the newscast.

342
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Sports is going to come on at six twenty. It

343
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was like five of six and the guy looks at me.

344
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The sports anchor, Steve Savard was the guy wound up

345
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becoming the voice of the Rams called their Super Bowl games. Really,

346
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he was amazing, It is amazing, great great journalist. Went

347
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,039
and eventually pivoted to news as well, but he was

348
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the weekend sports guy and at the time there this

349
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is Channel thirty in Connecticut, and he said just what

350
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I said earlier. He said, give me the four baskets

351
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that tell the.

352
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Speaker 2: Story of the game. And I was like wow.

353
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Speaker 4: And so I looked at my notes and I was like, well,

354
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,399
you got to have this one because they built a

355
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twelve point lead at the half. You got to have

356
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:07,919
this one because this is where Boston College kind of

357
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,519
rallied early in the second half. You have to have

358
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this bucket because he was the leading scorer. He really

359
00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:14,759
carried them down the stretch. And you got to have

360
00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:16,679
this one because this is the dunk that punctuated the win.

361
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:21,080
And ten minutes later, those highlights were edited and he's

362
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,639
on the air talking about it verbatim the way I

363
00:16:23,879 --> 00:16:24,759
explained it to him.

364
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Speaker 2: Wow.

365
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Speaker 4: And I walked out of that building that day, and

366
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I said, I now know what I want to do

367
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because I had, you know, prior to that, my experience

368
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,759
in journalism was going to a game, you know at

369
00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:39,960
the college, say a basketball game, watching it, making my notes,

370
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:43,559
going back to my dorm room, writing out my article,

371
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going to the office where the computers were for the

372
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:50,320
school paper, typing that into a computer, and then turning

373
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it into newsprint.

374
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Speaker 2: Now you can just talk about that way.

375
00:16:53,559 --> 00:16:56,919
Speaker 4: It was a multi hour process that got boiled down

376
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,559
to literally about ten minutes. And I mean I was

377
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,440
just I was. I was floating on air walking out

378
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,240
of that place. They get like, wow, that guy like

379
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,839
he didn't question it, like what I told him, I

380
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,599
sold him on it. He did it, and I was like,

381
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:09,759
this is for me.

382
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

383
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,519
Speaker 4: The immediacy of it immediately drew me in.

384
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,640
Speaker 2: So then I never looked back. Okay, so you graduate

385
00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:21,920
from Trinity in what year? Ninety four? Ninety four? Okay,

386
00:17:22,039 --> 00:17:25,920
same as me. So then what what's the path? How

387
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:26,720
do you so?

388
00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 4: What I My path was this that when I finished

389
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,519
at Trinity, I had done that internship, and that internship

390
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,160
ended as I was graduating, and I basically I said

391
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,319
to the sports director at the time, the guy that

392
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,519
was running that office was a guy named Beasley Reese,

393
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:42,559
the former Giant.

394
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's the hell yeah, he's the head of

395
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,599
the NFL. Yeah.

396
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,559
Speaker 4: So, uh he was, you know, he had pivoted from

397
00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:55,680
playing to becoming a sports broadcaster. And he's and I'm like, look, uh,

398
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,160
you know, I want to keep this going. And he's like, well,

399
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,039
he's like, I can't make you any promises. There's there's

400
00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:05,799
really nothing here for you. But if you're willing to

401
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,759
keep coming in, let's let's see where it leads over

402
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:11,599
the summer and goes from there. So I continued the internship.

403
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,920
I basically did it full time that summer for no pay.

404
00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:18,640
Speaker 2: For no pay, nothing I want it.

405
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,759
Speaker 4: At the end of the summer, you know, it was

406
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:22,680
like I literally had to go to the news director

407
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,119
and I was like, you know, like I'm out of

408
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,680
time here, like we gotta you know, either I gotta

409
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,839
I gotta go, or you're going to hire me. And

410
00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:32,559
he said, look, there's no money in the budget for you.

411
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,200
I'm you know, at the begging of these sports guys,

412
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,680
I'm going to bring you on as a part time

413
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,000
sports producer, you know, putting the shows together behind the scenes.

414
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,799
He said, the minute a piece of equipment in this

415
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,079
building breaks.

416
00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 2: You're gone because we don't have the money.

417
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 4: There's no money to pay you. I'm paying you out

418
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,519
of money that doesn't exist. I want to and that's

419
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:53,119
how it started.

420
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 1: I want to jump in just an interrupt you here

421
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,279
because I love the idea of you work for free.

422
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,240
Now I don't I don't want to condone. I'm not

423
00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:05,880
going to say working for freeze, but sometimes you got

424
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,359
to do something for free, just to show you can do.

425
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,599
Speaker 4: It and to show them how passionate.

426
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: You are and dedicated and that you show up. It

427
00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:16,160
was a centerator.

428
00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:18,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was no one else doing that.

429
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:19,640
Speaker 2: I believe that.

430
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: So I believe it too. So you go part time?

431
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:26,880
What else are you doing to like you work in

432
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:27,400
at a bar?

433
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:28,079
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was.

434
00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 4: I don't even remember what I was doing. I had

435
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,160
some kind of I think I worked at like a

436
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,440
gym or something, okay, picking up towels, yeah, just to

437
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,640
try to pay the bills. I ended up living with

438
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,039
like three or four other guys that were still in school.

439
00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:43,799
Speaker 2: One of those guys was an intern for me. That's awesome.

440
00:19:43,839 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 4: I mean again, I was he was like two years

441
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,799
younger than I was, you know, So I found a

442
00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:49,559
place where I was like we were, you know, five

443
00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:50,680
guys dividing rent.

444
00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was like one hundred and twenty

445
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,559
five dollars a month. Perfect. I could make it work.

446
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a little bit money left over for

447
00:19:56,759 --> 00:19:58,680
some drinks after work, and life was good. That's all

448
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,680
I needed. You need, right and back then, just a

449
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,200
little bit of gas for the tank. You could afford

450
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:03,799
a tank of gas.

451
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's so funny because you look at this is

452
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:08,119
early nineties when.

453
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,759
Speaker 1: You start thinking sometimes of the happiest times you had nothing.

454
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 2: You had nothing. You had a lot of hope, right

455
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:15,279
for sure.

456
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,799
Speaker 1: You know, even when it's just you and your wife

457
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:21,559
at the beginning, you have hope. And that's great. So

458
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:25,920
where do you what happens from this station? This is

459
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,759
in Connecticut Arts Hartford CONNETRKET.

460
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,519
Speaker 4: This was the NBC affiliate there, Okay, channel thirty, Yeah,

461
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:31,279
sort of.

462
00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 2: The cliff notes version.

463
00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:35,039
Speaker 4: Is I worked there for three years as a sports producer.

464
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,599
You did twelve months After about a year, I was

465
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:40,519
elevated to the main sports producer.

466
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,279
Speaker 2: You know, I'd done well, I'd kind of taken the

467
00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:45,240
ball and run quick. It was great. Uh, And I.

468
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 4: Worked with incredible sportscasters. I was lucky. I worked with

469
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,039
people that really were good at what they did.

470
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: When you're ran in the shadow of New York City and.

471
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 4: In Boston, Well Beasley was calling NFL games for see

472
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,039
at that point, you know, so there was you know,

473
00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:01,160
he was doing the Olympics for them, So there was

474
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,759
a There was just a lot that I was getting

475
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:06,799
exposed to in that area. But the longer I did it,

476
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,680
the more there were to me. Two paths were emerging,

477
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,039
you know, like try to get to the network level

478
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:15,680
as a behind the scenes producer guy, or try and

479
00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:18,000
take what everything I had learned and try to do

480
00:21:18,079 --> 00:21:20,759
it myself. Yeah, obviously in my early twenties, I was

481
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,000
that was an easy choice for me. Me too, I thought,

482
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:24,720
if I fell on my face, then I'll go back

483
00:21:24,759 --> 00:21:27,000
and try and get a network producer. But I'm going

484
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:30,359
to at least go for it. So I grinded it out.

485
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,319
I put resume tapes together. They were horrendous, you know,

486
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:34,319
they were just terrible.

487
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: I had no idea. What do you have any anywhere?

488
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,519
I don't know, but you could ever show your kids

489
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:38,880
or something.

490
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 4: I don't know if I have the resume tapes that

491
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,480
I sent out to get that first job, but I

492
00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:45,880
definitely have the first sports cast that I did once

493
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:46,359
I was on.

494
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 1: Those are brutally, yeah, but how they're brutal, but they're great,

495
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:50,640
Yes they are.

496
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:52,799
Speaker 2: It's been a long time since I've seen it, but

497
00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:54,200
I can still see it.

498
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: Sodlights is that where you went was at West Virginia,

499
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:00,440
So I went from.

500
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,519
Speaker 4: There to West Virginia. It's a lot of great stories

501
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:04,640
that we could leverage here. I'll tell you how I

502
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,000
got that gig. I mean, I was sending these tapes everywhere. Yeah,

503
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,480
I mean, and it was like sending him into thin air,

504
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,319
like nobody was looking at these tapes. No one was

505
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,440
ever going to hire me for these jobs.

506
00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 2: But I'm mailing them out and hoping against hope. I'll

507
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,079
tell you how I got my first on air job.

508
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 4: So the guy who was the weekend guy who would

509
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,440
replace Steve Savard that I told you about was a

510
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,759
guy named Chris Wraggy. Chris came to Hartford as the

511
00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:36,519
weekend sports guy was so good that he left the

512
00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:39,519
weekend sports gig in Hartford to take a gig as

513
00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:43,119
a correspondent on Entertainment Tonight. That's how talented this guy was.

514
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,759
So I mean, I really was surrounded by unbelievable role models,

515
00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:51,400
guys that really kind of showed me where the standard was.

516
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,920
Not that I ever got where they were, but at

517
00:22:54,039 --> 00:22:57,240
least what to shoot for. So Raggy leaves and they're

518
00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:00,880
looking to fill his position, and so when they're bringing

519
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,519
guys in to audition for this role, one of these

520
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,119
guys comes up from West Virginia, guy named Kevin Nathan.

521
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,279
He's still there. He's still at that station all these

522
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:10,640
years later, over thirty years later.

523
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 2: Great guy.

524
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 4: But I saw I'm putting these shows together for his

525
00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:20,119
sports cast, and he's like, he's not auditioning, like you know,

526
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,200
behind the scenes. They brought him in for a weekend

527
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,079
and he did the weekends worth the shows, and I'm

528
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:28,200
putting these sports casts together, and I poured everything I

529
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,079
had into those shows for him. I made them as

530
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,440
good as they could be, and he wound up getting

531
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,000
the job. And when he came back to start the job,

532
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,519
he's like, look, I can't thank you enough. You know,

533
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,000
you really help make this happen. You maybe believe it

534
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:44,839
could happen. You put incredible shows together, and we convinced

535
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:46,640
this news director that I was the guy to hire.

536
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: What was the motivating factor for you to have that

537
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,400
kind of dedicated.

538
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: Always that way, I learned a hard lesson. So when

539
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:59,880
Savard left and the people were coming in to audition

540
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,440
for his job, I was put off by it because

541
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,279
I felt like I should have got it on. Yeah,

542
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:09,880
and I didn't really lean into it. I was, you know,

543
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,160
I kind of just went through the motions. And when

544
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,319
Chris got hired and came there, it took a while

545
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,319
for we worked very closely together right off the bat,

546
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,279
and it took a while, you know, to to sort

547
00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:24,599
of thaw through that fiction or friction rather because I was,

548
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,480
you know, I was jealous of it, and Chris was

549
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,440
only a couple of years older than me, So I

550
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:30,640
was jealous of it and I and I learned through

551
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,119
that experience that that that jealousy did not serve me well,

552
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,839
that it was that it was that it was to

553
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,039
my detriment, not to my benefit. So when the next

554
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,480
opportunity came around, I leaned into it and I did

555
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:47,599
everything I could for those candidates, whether they were whether

556
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:49,519
they're good or bad. I gave them everything I had

557
00:24:50,079 --> 00:24:52,359
and I and you know, I would say that's something

558
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:53,119
that has stayed with me.

559
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 2: So long story short.

560
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 4: The guy, so Kevin Nathan comes up, takes the job

561
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,720
in Hartford, and this is how the business works. So

562
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,039
Kevin Nathan's got a buddy who's in Bluefield. He takes

563
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,079
Kevin Nathan's job in Huntington, West Virginia. So now they've

564
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:08,440
got an opening in tiny little Bluefield. Well guess who

565
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,640
sends her tape to blue Field? Yeah, guess what news

566
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,960
director gets a phone call from Kevin Nathan, Right, the

567
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,519
news director in Bluefield. I drive all the way down there,

568
00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:17,640
I do an interview, I drive all the way back.

569
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 2: He calls me. He says, you got the gig.

570
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 4: I put my whole life into a nineteen ninety three

571
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,160
Toyta Central Drive for the hills of West Virginia.

572
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 2: This is amazing.

573
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,559
Speaker 1: So I love the way that is and I love

574
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,039
the whole story of not putting your all into it,

575
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:36,920
being jealous and envious and then realizing that's not serving you.

576
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: And boom, look what happened. So now you go down there?

577
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,359
Was that just for weekends? So I went.

578
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 4: I started there as the weekend sports guy.

579
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what do you do during the week.

580
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 4: So like then you would be like a sports reporter. Okay,

581
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,079
So they it's a full time job, full time gig. Okay,

582
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,880
I gotcha. It didn't seem like full time money, but

583
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,000
it was a full time gig.

584
00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: But you're a West Virginia where I'm thinking in myself,

586
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,640
and I think most people would think a little bit backwards. Certainly,

587
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:04,359
probably not.

588
00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to expect.

589
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was in my mid twenties at

590
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,119
that point, like I said, already been in the business

591
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:10,880
for three years.

592
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,599
Speaker 2: I had a lot of experience about how to.

593
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,559
Speaker 4: Put sports cast together, but I had very little experience

594
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,160
actually going out in news gathering.

595
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,599
Speaker 2: And when you're down in the market like that, that's

596
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:21,880
you know, you got to go out.

597
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,279
Speaker 4: Most nights, I would have my entire sports cast inside

598
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,480
my camera, you know what I mean. Like I went

599
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:30,319
out and shot the entire sports cast. You come back,

600
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,519
you edit all those highlights together, and you throw it

601
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:33,960
on the air at eleven o'clock, like you've had your

602
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,039
feet up all night.

603
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:35,559
Speaker 2: Right right now.

604
00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 4: But I was driving around the hills of West Virginia

605
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,400
and Southern Virginia as well, is right on the border there.

606
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,319
And for me, yeah, I guess the way I approached it,

607
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,960
I wasn't really focused on what there was going on

608
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,160
around me when I got there. I was just totally

609
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,759
focused on the fact that I was getting this dream opportunity. Yeah,

610
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,039
you know, and I just took full advantage of it,

611
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,319
full advantage. And you know, it's like most things in life,

612
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:02,319
you know, I look back on it, and I was

613
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,039
there at a great time. You know, I could rattle off,

614
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:08,200
you know, a short list of athletes who I covered

615
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,279
in the time that I was there, and you're like,

616
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:13,559
that's unbelievable, Randy Moss, Yeah, Michael Vick. These are guys

617
00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:18,200
that were literally from me to you, multiple conversations, you know,

618
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,880
field level for watching these guys perform, and you knew

619
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,480
even then that they were different and special, you know,

620
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,079
so and it was incredible, you know, it was just

621
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,119
it was such a great training ground when I finally

622
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,920
got to Rochester three years later. As I said, interviewed

623
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,880
November ninety nine, started here in December ninety nine, one

624
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,079
month before the Music City Miracle. So it was mostly

625
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,960
it was most it was mostly my fault.

626
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: I forgot well were you Are you a Giant fan

627
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:49,000
or were you I grew up a Giant fan. Yeah,

628
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,319
I did too, and people get mad at me. They're like, well,

629
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,599
you switch your loyalty, and I go, yeah. But when

630
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,559
you're here and you cover the guys like I did

631
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,599
radio shows from camp, I got mad, you know, yelled

632
00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,759
at by Mario Williams. I sat with the different players

633
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,880
all the way through. Doug Flutie. You talk to these guys,

634
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,200
you can't help but root for them. It's true, you

635
00:28:09,319 --> 00:28:09,799
just can't.

636
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: I agree.

637
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,799
Speaker 4: I think you're you know, certainly, as a sports caster,

638
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,200
I try to be as ejective as possible. You know,

639
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,319
when they struggled, and there were many years there where

640
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,240
they struggled in my sports.

641
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,079
Speaker 2: Stay, I don't remember that.

642
00:28:21,079 --> 00:28:23,039
Speaker 4: I was very you know, I you know, I was

643
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:26,720
as I was as clear as I could be about that.

644
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,000
I really didn't try to let my feelings enter the equation.

645
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,720
But yes, I mean, you know, the way I always

646
00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:35,119
put it to people is, look, the better they do,

647
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:37,880
the better it is for you. You know, you want

648
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,160
to get to the playoffs, you want to have a

649
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,920
shot at the Super Bowl, you want to be there

650
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,079
for the parade. Of course, you want them to win,

651
00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:44,839
you want them to do well. And you do get

652
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,440
to know some of them, you know, and when you do,

653
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:49,920
it becomes you know, now you're rooting from them because

654
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:51,960
you love the story. You think they're a great guy,

655
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,240
or they've been really good to you, and you know

656
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,960
they've helped you do your job better and all those

657
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,599
things factor in for sure.

658
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: So you sent take are you still at West Virginia

659
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:02,640
And that's and you come.

660
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: Came here from West Virginia, from West Virginia, So you

661
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,279
send a tape here and it's again weekends, yes, yes, yeah.

662
00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: And for me, you know, the way I looked at

663
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,960
it when I was there was it was sort of

664
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,039
like there it was like kind of college, you know,

665
00:29:17,079 --> 00:29:21,599
like West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Marshall, Virginia to a lesser degree.

666
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,359
And here it was a chance to sort of take

667
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:25,960
that step from the college level to the pros with

668
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,839
the Bills. Sabers amhergs Triple A Baseball with the Red Wings.

669
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,200
In fact, that a lot of the kids that are

670
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,759
on the Red Wings when I moved here were guys

671
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:37,680
that I had covered in Bluefield because that back then

672
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,319
it was the Orioles rookie affiliate.

673
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: Oh that's yeah, that's right.

674
00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:42,359
Speaker 4: And you know, the time it took me to get

675
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,640
from there to here, it was the same amount of

676
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,480
time it took them to get from rookie ball to

677
00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:46,039
Triple A.

678
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,839
Speaker 2: Wow. So they were playing rookie ball in West Virginia.

679
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,319
Speaker 4: Josh Towers was a guy okay, and he pitched in

680
00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:53,480
the two thousand All Star Game at Frontier Field, and

681
00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:55,680
he had a pretty good career in the majors. There's

682
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,039
a guy that was in Bluefield with me who was

683
00:29:58,039 --> 00:29:59,079
in Rochester when.

684
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,519
Speaker 2: I got here, and guys ever made the connection. You did.

685
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,359
But it wasn't like, bro, we did it, you know, No,

686
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:09,880
you did it.

687
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,559
Speaker 4: I got into U haul and took some stuff up

688
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:13,799
here and I talked about it on TV.

689
00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:17,359
Speaker 2: You did it? Yeah, But yeah, but that was cool.

690
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:17,960
That was wild.

691
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: Sure, cool progression, right, And then you're you're at the

692
00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:25,799
NBC affiliate here for how many years?

693
00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:29,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? Almost nine I think was the number, Almost ten years.

694
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:32,759
Did you transition to news there? I did not? You

695
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:34,799
did not. Yeah, I took a year away. You took

696
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:35,880
a year away. What did you do?

697
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 4: For the year I worked in financial services, oh for

698
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:39,799
about a year.

699
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

700
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: And you talk about like timing in life, that was

701
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,240
not good timing. It was like, oh nine, yeah, when

702
00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:47,160
the world was falling off.

703
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,559
Speaker 2: Oh that was when they were painting the Golden turns. People.

704
00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:52,119
Speaker 4: Yes, people were not exactly lining up to get money

705
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:54,640
advice from me, right so, But it was a great

706
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,920
learning experience, no regrets about it. Made some incredible friendships,

707
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720
learned a ton help some people out along the way.

708
00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:06,880
But recognize that for me, you know, the prudent move

709
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,640
with a young family was to get back into a

710
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,960
situation where I could accentuate my skill set. Yeah you know, yeah,

711
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:14,680
I think you know, the way I look back on

712
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,440
that experience, I think had I been like just starting

713
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,559
out in my early twenties, you know, I could try

714
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:21,880
to grind my way through that. But with a wife

715
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,000
and kids and a house and a mortgage and all that,

716
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:26,359
I just need. I needed to be in.

717
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:28,359
Speaker 2: More of a sure situation. Yeah.

718
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's and I And as I said, you know,

719
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,440
it was not a great time financially in this country.

720
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: No, it was not.

721
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: I even had a relative who was high up at

722
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:42,880
MB and a bank and said I'm out.

723
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: I'm not doing this.

724
00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: I can see what the government's painting golden turds and

725
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:47,640
I'm not doing it.

726
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:49,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's amazing.

727
00:31:49,119 --> 00:31:50,799
Speaker 4: There was a small group of people that you know,

728
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,319
like the Big Short that movie.

729
00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: It's amazing either he said, he goes, this is this

730
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:55,759
is terrible.

731
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:58,319
Speaker 1: I don't want no part of it. And I and

732
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,039
laughed and laughed. With a parachute was you know, way

733
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,240
high up and certainly had worked his way up from

734
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:09,119
collections all the way up, you know, again a grinder,

735
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,799
smart guy, and then floated down and then floated down

736
00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:13,640
with his parachute and once told me, I have enough

737
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,880
money to run for senator from the state of Delaware

738
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,599
and take money from no one, like I could finance

739
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,440
my whole campaign.

740
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,319
Speaker 2: So you know, that worked out.

741
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: But he's like, you can't do this, you know, and

742
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,680
would say, we used to be able to profile lenders

743
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:32,440
by just looking at them. Yeah, you knew blue collar

744
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,480
guys were going to make their payments. These were hard

745
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,920
working guys, They were earnest guys.

746
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:36,319
Speaker 2: They knew it.

747
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: They go this other stuff that they were starting to

748
00:32:38,519 --> 00:32:40,960
do was just just bet. But you go and do

749
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:43,680
that for a year. How do you what happens to

750
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,680
bring you back? Because I do remember the CBS affiliate.

751
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know I had a chance to come

752
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,720
back to Rochester and for me, you know, John Cutchko

753
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:54,680
actually was the guy that kind of helped make it happen.

754
00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: Yea.

755
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 4: You know, he was like, hey, we've got some openings

756
00:32:57,039 --> 00:32:59,880
and I've talked to the news director about you. You know,

757
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:01,440
this could be a great opportunity for you to get

758
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,640
your foot back in the door and you know, see

759
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,359
where it goes from there. And I saw it that way.

760
00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:08,400
I saw it as an opportunity to get back in

761
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,680
and then kind of grow it from there and try

762
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,839
and get out of the anchor desk. I knew that

763
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:14,839
what I you know, one of the things that you

764
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,880
learn in that industry, television news, is that well, just

765
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:19,480
turn on the news.

766
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:20,519
Speaker 2: You'll see it for yourself.

767
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,279
Speaker 4: There's a lot more news people than there are sports people.

768
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,400
Oh yeah, yeah, there's more reporters, there's more anchors, there's

769
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,319
more shows. And the other thing is, you know when

770
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:32,200
sports you're always begging like, oh, there's a big game

771
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,319
tonight in Caledonia. Can we get some help getting some

772
00:33:35,359 --> 00:33:36,480
highlights from it.

773
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:38,079
Speaker 2: In news, you never have to beg for that.

774
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,839
Speaker 4: You go where it is and they want you to

775
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:42,440
get it. So there was an element of sort of

776
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,720
if you can't beat them, join them. I ended up

777
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,920
doing bill, the two things I said I would never do.

778
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:52,319
I love mornings and news and here's the beauty of it.

779
00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:56,240
I did it voluntarily. Nobody forced me into it. They

780
00:33:56,319 --> 00:33:57,839
asked me if I wanted to do it, and I said,

781
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,359
you bet, I do because at that moment in my life,

782
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:01,799
it was absolutely the right move.

783
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,839
Speaker 2: So which is great, right, and you need to know that.

784
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,559
And things happen for a reason.

785
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,079
Speaker 4: It's I think the longer you go, the more you

786
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:11,199
realize that they do tend to happen for a reason.

787
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Not always apparent in the moment.

788
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:16,039
Speaker 1: No, it's not. And I always think, like I always go,

789
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,199
you know how people go out? What a coincidence? I

790
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,320
don't think there are any coincidences, but that's.

791
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: My weird head.

792
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,559
Speaker 1: However, I do remember what time did you have to

793
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,440
I want to say, get up, but I think you

794
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,320
were in and I'll say in makeup and I know

795
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:30,920
that sound may sound funny, but.

796
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: You were on TV. Yeh know?

797
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,159
Speaker 1: You get a little shiny or whatever, like three am.

798
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:38,400
So you got up out of bed at three am.

799
00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, at the studio prepping the show by four am.

800
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:45,239
And to your point, you know, by a quarter of

801
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,880
ten of five in the morning, make up on, bright

802
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,360
eyed and bushy tailed, ready.

803
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,079
Speaker 1: To go, and you went on at five five. Yeah,

804
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,480
And how many years did you do this?

805
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 4: I did that for uh yeah, like about a little

806
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:58,880
over a decade.

807
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: Wow.

808
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 4: It is a wow. When I look back on it,

809
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,800
it's a wow. And I mean a wow in really

810
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,840
every sense of the word. I love sports. I'm a

811
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,800
sports guy at heart, always have been. But I learned

812
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,800
to appreciate news. I learned to appreciate not so much

813
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,480
the murder and mayhem elements of it, right, but the

814
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,559
incredible people in this community that are passionate about doing

815
00:35:25,639 --> 00:35:29,119
different kinds of things, either on a business level or

816
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:33,480
a film topic level, that that I didn't know about

817
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:36,880
and otherwise would never have known about. Sure, I love sports,

818
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,239
but you know, there tends to be a groundhog day

819
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,239
component of It's football season, it's basketball season, it's baseball season.

820
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,400
Guess what, it's football season again. You know, you know,

821
00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:48,960
there's an element of Ben there done that the names

822
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,000
in the face has changed and that keeps it fresh.

823
00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:53,519
Speaker 2: But in news, it's constantly evolving.

824
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: It is constantly evolving. And I like what you said

825
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,760
because I think I have found I don't watch a

826
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,119
whole lot of news anymore. And it's not out of

827
00:36:04,159 --> 00:36:07,280
any other thing that I don't feel good when I

828
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:07,880
watched it.

829
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 2: Sometimes I go.

830
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 4: And it sounds like a lot of people well, which

831
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,320
is and I understand.

832
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,199
Speaker 1: But that's news, right, So sometimes I prefer to read

833
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,960
it than I do sometimes online because I can get it,

834
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,559
and I can you know, I'll summarize articles for myself

835
00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:27,679
for the podcast and things. Sure, but it's it's a

836
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,840
tough grind because you know, we report. I mean the

837
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,000
old adage that if it leads it or if it bleeds,

838
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:36,639
excuse me, it leads was, you know, the way it

839
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,320
was in news for a long time. I think for

840
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:42,679
almost a century that was sort of the saying.

841
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 4: Well, and the research consistently shows that when people are

842
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,000
surveyed about television news, they will tell you consistently that

843
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:55,360
that that negative news is a turnoff. Yes, you know,

844
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,199
the you know, the bleeds it leads type of news

845
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,360
stories are turnoff. Yet at the same time, those same

846
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,559
people will tell you those are the stories they're most interested.

847
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 2: Right exactly.

848
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,559
Speaker 4: Yes, I think there's an element of like you know,

849
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:10,639
driving by the car wreck on the highway, you can't

850
00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:12,199
help it, love look right, you know.

851
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: But I like what you were saying in terms of

852
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,239
the people that were doing things and making a difference.

853
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,280
And sometimes you know you can't do it and it

854
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,639
wouldn't really be very interesting, but almost like the happy

855
00:37:24,679 --> 00:37:27,639
news channel, you know what I'm saying, well, but in

856
00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:30,679
a sense, but you need the contrast in life period

857
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,119
you do. But I think it's cool to see people

858
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:38,480
that are doing great things. I always thought that this

859
00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:42,320
area owes a lot like it or not to George Eastman,

860
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,519
because Kodak brought brilliant minds here. Brilliant minds guys who

861
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:50,960
were PhDs. They could have invented things on their own,

862
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,400
but they had families and stuff and go, I need

863
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,760
a paycheck, a steady paycheck, so they got a research department.

864
00:37:57,039 --> 00:37:59,800
I lived across from a guy who is I think

865
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,000
he had a doctor in flow, which sounds ridiculous, but

866
00:38:03,079 --> 00:38:05,679
how ink flows. He would do experiments sometimes in his

867
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,280
oven because he was, you know, things were backing up

868
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,440
at work, whatever, and those brilliant minds, a lot of

869
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,960
them stay here. Kodak is what it is today. But

870
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:19,079
they had kids. And there are other businesses that many

871
00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:22,360
people are not aware of because they're not really something

872
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,800
you would go into, but they do big business around

873
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,920
the country for sure.

874
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,199
Speaker 4: It would be the lighting or around the globe for

875
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:30,599
that or around the globe.

876
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: And I often think, boy, those brilliant creative minds were

877
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,320
brought here because of Kodak.

878
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: No question. And you know, I would sort of tie

879
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:39,639
a couple things together.

880
00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:41,599
Speaker 4: You know, I talked in the beginning about like interviewing

881
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,159
with Bill Seizler and much funky, like literally knowing two

882
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:47,360
people in this town, not knowing really anything about this

883
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,440
community other than a handful of the nicknames of the

884
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,880
sports teams. And I really grew to love this place

885
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,199
for that reason. I mean, there are so many things

886
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,119
about this community that you don't find in communities this

887
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,039
size in other parts of the country. To find these

888
00:39:01,079 --> 00:39:04,360
types of things like a philharmonic or you know those

889
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,039
you know, the off Broadway shows and some of the

890
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,480
things that were able to tract into this area, you know,

891
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:12,960
are things that you have to go to a much

892
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:17,639
larger metro to replicate. And once you get to a

893
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,559
larger metro like a New York City or a Philly

894
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:22,840
or DC or whatever, you bring it a whole host

895
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,840
of other issues in terms of traffic and getting a market. Yes, right,

896
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,800
we're here. You largely are able to move through all

897
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,480
that seamlessly, enjoy all the benefits.

898
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: Was there ever a desire when you were in news?

899
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,320
And I'll bring this up because reminded me of something

900
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,400
with me to go to a bigger market.

901
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, the reason I got rich. Funky told

902
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,920
me the reason I got the driving reason, the deciding

903
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,119
factor why he chose to hire me over the other

904
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,320
person that they were looking at, was because when he

905
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,239
asked both of us what our goals were, the other

906
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,280
person told him this is my goal. This is where

907
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,880
I want to be. And when he asked me the

908
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,920
same question, I told him I want to get to

909
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,400
New York City. Yeah, that's why I grew up. It's

910
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,679
the number one market, and I want to get into

911
00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:15,239
a situation where, uh, when my parents turn on their

912
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,079
TV at night, it's me that they see.

913
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: How cool would that? Yeah? Sure? Never got there. Okay,

914
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:23,960
that's the that's that's the of that story. Yeah, but

915
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,480
what is what that's what drove me. Yes, that's what

916
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:29,920
drove you. But that was my mindset because I.

917
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: I remember even going to a major city interviewing and

918
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,880
the guy who I was supposed to have breakfast with saying,

919
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,239
we're going to have to do it tomorrow because I

920
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,639
was in town for a couple of days because traffic

921
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,159
was so bad. After an hour, he could still see

922
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,199
the on ramp in his rearview mirror and he goes,

923
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,440
I'm not going to get there. It was maybe the

924
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,480
worst or one of the worst days of traffic in

925
00:40:52,519 --> 00:40:54,400
the history of that city. And it's one of those

926
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,400
things where you go maybe not, maybe I don't want

927
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:57,719
to do that.

928
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, and I think.

929
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:03,119
Speaker 4: You know this, this is sort of the overarching theme

930
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,119
of kind of what we're talking about, is that you know,

931
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:09,039
as your as your life goes through different stages, your

932
00:41:09,039 --> 00:41:12,639
priorities change. Yes, you know, it took me a while

933
00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:15,599
to figure it out, but eventually I realized that the

934
00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:19,119
goals that I had in my twenties were not the

935
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:22,199
goals that I have now. And there's nothing wrong with

936
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,440
those goals. There was nothing wrong with striving for those things,

937
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,639
but my priorities had shifted, and that and that the

938
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:31,280
pursuit of those goals were at the would would come

939
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,320
at the expense of the things that really mattered to me,

940
00:41:33,679 --> 00:41:41,159
my family, Right, And once I really understood that, it became,

941
00:41:41,679 --> 00:41:44,239
you know, much easier to reconcile what was or wasn't

942
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,960
being accomplished in my career, you know what I mean?

943
00:41:47,159 --> 00:41:52,639
Speaker 1: Yes, and I wonder too, like and I this isn't

944
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:54,920
where I want to go. But I will say the

945
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,960
media landscape as a whole is changing completely, and it's

946
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:03,760
partly because of things people can do independently, like this

947
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,159
podcast and so question. But what I'm seeing now is

948
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:11,639
the underpinnings the parts of media that people may not

949
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,719
be familiar with. The off air producer who's working for

950
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:16,960
is losing his.

951
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,679
Speaker 4: Gig, yeah, and some of that because you're getting into

952
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:27,239
scenarios where you can integrate different types of jobs into

953
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:28,400
one job.

954
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:32,639
Speaker 1: Look, when I left radio, I was on eighty stations

955
00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:37,440
doing classic rock, talking like I'm sitting in Brian, Texas, Sacramento, California.

956
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:39,840
I remember having a friend go I'm on an Alaskan

957
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,360
cruise and I just heard your voice and it's crazy

958
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,920
and I think almost detrimental. I can only speak for radio.

959
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,199
I think radio people will tell you the time, Wow,

960
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,039
radio is dead. Podcast right, No, radio is not dead.

961
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,440
If radio served its local community, it would.

962
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: Thrive, absolutely thrive. That was the point.

963
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: But because of corporate And you can't say corporate's bad.

964
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:05,960
Somebody tried something, right. If we're not, if we're not failing,

965
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,239
we're not trying, you know what I mean, They're not

966
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,760
being lazy, they're trying, and they're trying to figure it out.

967
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,000
But it got so big, and it got boards of directors,

968
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:15,960
and now you got more people than answerholders and shareholders,

969
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,679
and so that becomes the problem for sure. And so

970
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,760
what you start to see as the mom and pop

971
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,880
thing come back, it happens to be the podcast now

972
00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:25,960
or or or YouTube channels or whatever it is. And

973
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,199
I think that eventually things even out, they just do.

974
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:32,840
But I see that with media, and I gotta think

975
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:38,440
after a while, because television glamorous in most people's minds, right, glamorous,

976
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,440
it's a glamorous.

977
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: It's a glamorous thing.

978
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: But sometimes well it's sure, but at the same time,

979
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:48,400
it's you know, there's a tremendous amount of work, and

980
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,039
it's it's a grind and you gotta when you're out

981
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:53,400
trying in the hills of West Virginia to catch a

982
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,119
high school game, you know, and your racing back and

983
00:43:56,159 --> 00:43:59,199
your car overheats or they're crappy van that they give

984
00:43:59,199 --> 00:44:01,679
you whatever it is, the above, oh, the above, right. So,

985
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,920
but yet when you look back, you go, man, what

986
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:05,719
a trip.

987
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:07,039
Speaker 2: What a trip? Great memories?

988
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,559
Speaker 4: You know you will you tend to look back with

989
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,400
rose colored glasses, right stuff.

990
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 2: Sure you do. Yeah, not that day that just seemed

991
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,000
to never end.

992
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:17,599
Speaker 4: Right, or that speeding ticket you got because you were

993
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:18,880
trying to get that extra game.

994
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:20,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

995
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 4: No, I uh. I still think it kind of comes

996
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,840
back to what I said though. Through all of that, though,

997
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:28,159
those fundamental skills of reading and writing, yes, are consistent.

998
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,800
That's a through line with everything, right, And yes, it's changing, it's.

999
00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: Evolving, uh.

1000
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,679
Speaker 4: And there are some ways where that's troublesome, but there's

1001
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,519
there are other ways which it's amazing.

1002
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 2: You know.

1003
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,519
Speaker 4: I think this is an example of it. There so

1004
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:47,360
much opportunities being opened up to people and people who

1005
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,639
have real ability and talent who might otherwise not have

1006
00:44:50,639 --> 00:44:53,079
gotten a foot in the door are finding a way in.

1007
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,519
And I think you see that, uh with with podcasting.

1008
00:44:57,559 --> 00:45:00,119
I think you see it with acting, you see it

1009
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:04,840
with people and you know, forms of journalism. I guess

1010
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,360
I'll use that term where they're kind of making their

1011
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,079
own version of it, right, you know, I guess what

1012
00:45:11,119 --> 00:45:12,920
I would say. I would be careful to say that

1013
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,400
it doesn't necessarily replace or eliminate the need for accuracy

1014
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,519
and journalism. No, it does not, know and the role

1015
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:24,119
of legacy media, so to speak. Sure, but there's room,

1016
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,639
there's space in the room for other voices, other perspectives,

1017
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:30,679
and I think we're living in an age where that's evolving.

1018
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is real time.

1019
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: It is evolving in real time. And you bring up

1020
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,000
an interesting thing because I think the debate of being first, right,

1021
00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:42,519
it was always breaking news or what was the old

1022
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,800
County Central? When news breaks, we fix it, But who

1023
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:46,559
was there first?

1024
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 2: Right?

1025
00:45:47,039 --> 00:45:50,679
Speaker 1: The exclusive was a big deal. I would think it

1026
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,000
was probably a bigger deal for TV than maybe it

1027
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:57,119
was for radio, or radio would be more in the

1028
00:45:57,119 --> 00:45:59,519
form of an interview per se. And I remember sitting

1029
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:02,679
somewhere they did a test and they go, Yeah, a

1030
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,000
country station had Garth Brooks on at seven twenty and

1031
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,480
this other station didn't get them until nine twenty.

1032
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: And it didn't matter. You're right.

1033
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,039
Speaker 1: But in the but in the moment and in the mind, baby,

1034
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:17,159
it was every one if we had them at seven

1035
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:17,559
to twenty.

1036
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:19,679
Speaker 4: But Bill, think about it, you know, it's you know,

1037
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,800
I can remember there would be days where you'd get

1038
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,679
you'd get that exclusive story, yeah at two in the afternoon,

1039
00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:27,639
and you'd be holding it until six to air it.

1040
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1041
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 4: Those days are gone, Yes, because when it happened to

1042
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,320
two in the afternoon, everybody already knows about it. Yeah,

1043
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,000
because but you better have it advanced off of that

1044
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:42,639
point into a completely new direction by six o'clock because you,

1045
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:46,320
me and everyone else we've already consumed the basics of it,

1046
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:50,280
the it of that breaking story. What where can you

1047
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,360
take the story now four hours later?

1048
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 2: Right?

1049
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: And I and there are still some people who may

1050
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,559
not have heard about it, But you're right most people,

1051
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,000
I mean, I say, all the time marked it were

1052
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,320
people are walking around with a TV station in their pocket,

1053
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,119
no question, they.

1054
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,119
Speaker 2: Can go on live and get.

1055
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: Huge numbers potentially, Right, the abilities there to go viral

1056
00:47:12,679 --> 00:47:15,960
in a sense and have a story or any news

1057
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:16,920
get out.

1058
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 4: Right, and you're seeing you know, I mean, I don't

1059
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:21,880
know how deep in the weeds we want to go, sure,

1060
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,079
but you know you're seeing a version of that play

1061
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:27,159
out in terms of X with Elon Musk. You know,

1062
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,519
that's that's really his whole point, that the legacy media

1063
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:33,320
is dead, and that every one of everyone, everyone who

1064
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,559
has you know, a smartphone and X load downloaded onto

1065
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:38,719
it is a journalist.

1066
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,079
Speaker 2: In theory. There is some truth to that.

1067
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:46,199
Speaker 4: But again I do think that that while that there's

1068
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,079
an element of truth there, you still have to there

1069
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:52,719
still has to be a room in the conversation for

1070
00:47:52,840 --> 00:48:00,280
accuracy fact yes versus opinion, perspective vantage point even you

1071
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,119
know where you see something from a different angle and

1072
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:04,440
it looks different all of a sudden. So you may

1073
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,039
have captured something one way and it may give a

1074
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:11,920
certain view of an event, and now people are often

1075
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,000
running with you and suddenly some you know, another view

1076
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:16,840
of it comes in and it provides a whole different

1077
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,239
understanding of that event.

1078
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,119
Speaker 1: I beat the drum on this podcast of saying often

1079
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:26,440
that's one perspective I'll try to find other things. When

1080
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,519
I see something that's so egregious, right, I go, well,

1081
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,960
what's going on? And where that came from for me

1082
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,000
was a local news incident many years ago. You may

1083
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:38,559
remember this. A mother and daughter get in a fight

1084
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:43,800
in the driveway. Police show up and uh, it's a

1085
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,360
It was a black woman, and I think it was

1086
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,599
a white officer, and he.

1087
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 2: Is seen on tape kind of.

1088
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,159
Speaker 1: Whacking her on the side of the head as she's

1089
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,039
he's putting her in cuffs and people were going crazy.

1090
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,599
Speaker 2: I do have a memory for this, and it was lovely.

1091
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: Warren was running for first term as mayor, and I

1092
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,039
remember talking about this and a guy that many people

1093
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,679
do not like, Adam McFadden and I went to college together.

1094
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,519
And Adam goes, there's another angle of tape out there,

1095
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:19,719
and he goes.

1096
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:22,519
Speaker 2: You need to see it, and I get a hold

1097
00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:22,880
of it.

1098
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,599
Speaker 1: And it's the young woman reaching back for either the

1099
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:32,159
officer's gun and he's saying stop, or she's reaching for

1100
00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:34,440
his private It's hard to tell, honestly, the way it

1101
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:37,480
was going, and as Adam said, could be either one

1102
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,679
rig truthfully, and she was being somewhat aggressive and he

1103
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,039
finally just kind of went a little slap upside the

1104
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:45,440
head to get her to stop. And Adam is the

1105
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,360
guy who said to me, you got to talk about

1106
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,679
this because this is the other side. And it made

1107
00:49:49,679 --> 00:49:53,000
me say everything we see is, you know, from a

1108
00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:55,199
vantage point, and what we also, I think have to

1109
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,679
really remember. And I don't mean this for necessarily the news,

1110
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,360
but life in general. You know, we could have a

1111
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,559
party in here and or something happened with you know,

1112
00:50:05,679 --> 00:50:08,119
for let's say those other two chairs are filled around

1113
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:12,000
our table, and everybody's gonna have a different answer as

1114
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:16,599
to what happened, similar but different, yes, And everyone's perspective

1115
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:18,360
in this is it.

1116
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: Plays a lot.

1117
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: Our biases, our personal beliefs or things all play into that.

1118
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: And I think in your life experience and your life experience. Sure,

1119
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:27,440
so it was so hard.

1120
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: So when we look back, and I'll hear things like, boy,

1121
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,639
if we could go back to the days of Walter

1122
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,239
Cronkite on the news, Yeah, it was a simpler time

1123
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,599
because not everybody was jumping for the same story. And

1124
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:41,920
by the way, you know, I didn't know what you

1125
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:47,679
had for lunch, Yes, I didn't know. I didn't get

1126
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,960
to see it up close and in detail. I actually saw,

1127
00:50:51,159 --> 00:50:53,559
you know, the some spin all on the fork. Still

1128
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:55,480
I don't know you needed to know, but you know,

1129
00:50:55,679 --> 00:50:58,360
you know that's what I mean. And we know there's

1130
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,559
so much information now comes so quickly, and I think

1131
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:04,440
that it almost.

1132
00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:06,519
Speaker 2: There's no research.

1133
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,199
Speaker 4: Well, I think there's a couple of things that play

1134
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:10,639
into that.

1135
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:11,039
Speaker 2: One.

1136
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 4: The news cycle moves so quickly sure that it doesn't

1137
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:21,840
really allow for time to step back consider distill, because

1138
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,280
you're already into the next element or to the next

1139
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:29,519
great event. And that happens, you know, over my thirty

1140
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:33,840
years in local television news, you know, that was the

1141
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,199
kind of thing that went from happening over the course

1142
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,280
of several days to happening over the course of hours,

1143
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,760
where you can move in and out of two or

1144
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,000
three different news cycles over the court from the start

1145
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,559
of you know, from the start of a new shift

1146
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:52,079
until the six o'clock news with the same story. Things

1147
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,960
move so rapidly. Obviously, the rise of the internet, the

1148
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,920
smartphone apps, you know, the accessibility of all of this stuff,

1149
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,320
the ability to capture this stuff and share it with

1150
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,719
the world, has played into that. And there's so many

1151
00:52:08,039 --> 00:52:12,960
positives there But one drawback, and maybe that's the right word,

1152
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:16,360
is that things move so quickly that sometimes we aren't

1153
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,000
able to put perspective on it.

1154
00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: Away.

1155
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 4: It allows for greater understanding and a lot of times

1156
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,679
just eliminates confusion or misinformation because you got the version,

1157
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,639
the first version of it, and you've been swept into

1158
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:33,159
the next big thing. You never really stayed around long

1159
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,599
enough to get the context for what happened there and

1160
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:38,719
maybe a deeper understanding of what that issue was about,

1161
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,599
and you just the news cycle moves so quickly that

1162
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,000
there almost isn't time in our lives or even space

1163
00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:50,880
in our minds to try to go back and figure

1164
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,079
out what it was that we missed, because we're just

1165
00:52:53,199 --> 00:52:54,079
racing on to the.

1166
00:52:54,039 --> 00:52:56,679
Speaker 1: Next racing on to the next thing, and we see

1167
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,440
so much stuff, even the nonsense. I'm joking about seeing

1168
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,039
your lunch, not your lunch, but someone's lunch, right, You know,

1169
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,440
we see a lot of nonsense, and we know things

1170
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,639
almost I would say too much. I don't think I

1171
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,119
learned beings are wired.

1172
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 2: I largely agree to take in.

1173
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,119
Speaker 1: This much information. It's hard to process. I think there

1174
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:22,719
are even health things. I think you may be able

1175
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,440
to highlight ADHD a little bit with this sort of stuff.

1176
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 4: The research is being done about this in real time,

1177
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,880
you know, and the books will be coming out about it,

1178
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,360
and there will be courses of study in college as

1179
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,320
we shoutinue to loop back in this conversation, where people

1180
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,320
will make that their life's work. I mean, I still

1181
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,639
feel like that we are still in the wild West

1182
00:53:44,679 --> 00:53:45,639
as it comes.

1183
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 2: To the man.

1184
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. And I know we

1185
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,639
could say it feels like it's been around for a

1186
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:55,599
lifetime over twenty five years, right, let's say, or a generation.

1187
00:53:55,679 --> 00:53:59,719
I don't want to say a lifetime a generation, but yeah,

1188
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,000
we are because because even that has changed, yes, and

1189
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,679
the ability to stream, the ability to do all this.

1190
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,440
So this information stuff is out there. If you want it,

1191
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,320
you can you can get it, yes, And that's the

1192
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,039
that that's almost too much, yes.

1193
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 2: And.

1194
00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 4: I guess you know the wild West component of it,

1195
00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:23,920
you know, from a journalistic standpoint is that there's no playbook,

1196
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:24,719
there are.

1197
00:54:24,639 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 2: No rules to stabia. Well yes, yeah, right, I carry you.

1198
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:31,920
It has it does.

1199
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 4: But think about it from a journalistic standpoint, this is

1200
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,239
one of the things that as time went on that

1201
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,199
I became. I struggled with I guess is the fair

1202
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:41,079
way to put it? I mean you mentioned kron Kite.

1203
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:44,199
You know where the where the mindset there was middle

1204
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:44,880
of the road.

1205
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,559
Speaker 2: Right, You don't lean one way or the other. You

1206
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:48,199
literal the road.

1207
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,639
Speaker 4: You present the facts as you understand them, because because

1208
00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:54,639
you're understanding evolved sometimes you learn new information. But you

1209
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,800
give the information the facts as you understand it, and

1210
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:02,199
you let the viewer make their own listener decide.

1211
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,159
Speaker 2: You're just the conduit for the information.

1212
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 4: So then you know this thing, you know, Facebook and

1213
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,960
Twitter and Instagram, things like that come along, and now

1214
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,920
you have journalists with their own page and they're building

1215
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,519
their own brand, and they're telling you what they think.

1216
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:23,599
Which it's America, it's a free country. You're allowed to

1217
00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:27,320
do that. But suddenly we've now without a rule book

1218
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,679
or a playbook or an understanding of how this should work,

1219
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,039
we've blurred the lines. So now you have a journalist

1220
00:55:33,039 --> 00:55:36,320
who's basically laid out on Twitter how they feel about

1221
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:41,559
someone or something going and covering that for the news. Right, well,

1222
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:44,559
how are we going to you know, where is the

1223
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:48,159
neutrality there? Am I getting an unfiltered, unbiased view of

1224
00:55:48,199 --> 00:55:50,920
this event, whatever it may be. I struggled with that

1225
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:54,880
as as time went on, because there was really no

1226
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,559
one to kind of stand up and say, this is

1227
00:55:56,559 --> 00:55:58,679
how we should do it. This is the way to

1228
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,280
separate those two things. Where you can have your page

1229
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,679
and your interests, but you have to operate in a

1230
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,519
way where when people turn on the TV to watch you,

1231
00:56:08,119 --> 00:56:12,199
they feel like they're getting again an unbiased version of

1232
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:15,360
what you're telling them, that what you're telling them is authentic,

1233
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,880
it's not filtered or skewed in any way based on

1234
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,840
your belief I'm tricky.

1235
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: It's tough, oh got it, but it's it's But.

1236
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,159
Speaker 4: I think this is something that you know, I think

1237
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,320
almost immediately I began to see was an issue, and

1238
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,480
it unequivocally is an issue as we speak.

1239
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:32,679
Speaker 1: How did you handle social media for yourself when you

1240
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:33,159
were on the.

1241
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,639
Speaker 4: Yes, The answer is I tried to stay in.

1242
00:56:35,639 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: The middle of the row, in the middle of the road.

1243
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like to me, my, my, uh, sort

1244
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:43,960
of My line of where I felt like I could

1245
00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:46,360
tread into an opinion would be like.

1246
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:49,159
Speaker 2: The bills are going to the playoffs, right, Like, if

1247
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:51,480
you have a problem with that, then you got me,

1248
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,599
you know, like, Okay, you win.

1249
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 4: I wasn't totally neutral to the end, you know, or uh,

1250
00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:01,239
you know, I don't know, you know, like some youngster

1251
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,880
from Rochester wins the National spelling Bee.

1252
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:04,599
Speaker 2: You know, way to go.

1253
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I mean, if you have to, there's

1254
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,360
got to be some things that we all can agree

1255
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:13,719
is good news, or we can all agree is terrible news. Right,

1256
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:18,639
But you know, outside of those extremes, I really tried

1257
00:57:18,679 --> 00:57:21,719
to live in a place where you know, I guess

1258
00:57:21,719 --> 00:57:23,360
the way I would think of it, like, you know,

1259
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:26,840
it's the easy, easiest example that comes to mind, you know,

1260
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,079
to me, if you're watching me on TV, I'd like

1261
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:30,679
to think that you didn't know if I was a

1262
00:57:30,719 --> 00:57:33,880
Democrat or a Republican, right, And I think if you

1263
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,079
felt like you knew, then that reflected more on me

1264
00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:39,280
than you. You know, that I wasn't doing my job

1265
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:40,079
as well as I should have.

1266
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:43,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you trying to say that that neutral. It

1267
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:45,920
is weird now because the information does come so fast.

1268
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:49,840
Everybody has an opinion and they often think it's right.

1269
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,000
And then there are things where that I scratched my

1270
00:57:54,039 --> 00:57:57,719
hat about almost as a joke, but it was a

1271
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,280
real thing that happened, even on the podcast, with people

1272
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,159
saying that a local school was getting so liberal and

1273
00:58:04,159 --> 00:58:07,079
people were so upset that they were allowing kids that

1274
00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:11,760
identified as furries or animals to use a litter box

1275
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,920
in the in the bathroom. Yeah, and people are running

1276
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,760
around Mark with this online and I had to say

1277
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,880
to somebody, I go, hang on a second.

1278
00:58:20,159 --> 00:58:21,679
Speaker 2: We just went through a pandemic.

1279
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: Do you think and forgive my friends, Mark, but do

1280
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,519
you think they're letting kids shit in a box in

1281
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:29,920
an open air in a bathroom. There's no way, there's

1282
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,840
no way, the health concerned, no way, there's not.

1283
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 2: A chance this is happening.

1284
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,079
Speaker 4: But I think, to me, in that story is the

1285
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:40,440
reality of the moment we're in guests that we are

1286
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:41,320
so quick.

1287
00:58:41,119 --> 00:58:44,239
Speaker 2: To assume that's true, right and why? And there's no

1288
00:58:44,519 --> 00:58:46,639
sex and balances on that, But that.

1289
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:50,079
Speaker 1: Would also be back to your own personal beliefs and

1290
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:53,119
thinking we're going too far. Things are too liberal in

1291
00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:55,800
that person's mind. Who's eating that story up? And I go,

1292
00:58:56,199 --> 00:58:58,360
hang on a second. All I'm asking people to do

1293
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,159
is think, Just try to pause and think, give a

1294
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,599
little bit of a beat in between your knee jerk

1295
00:59:04,639 --> 00:59:07,239
reaction and maybe a thoughtful reaction to what's happening.

1296
00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 4: I'll tell you even earlier today, I'm scrolling through my

1297
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:11,480
my x feed.

1298
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 2: And see, to me, like the present iteration of this is.

1299
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,239
Speaker 4: A I I'm watching a whale open up its mouth

1300
00:59:21,519 --> 00:59:24,559
and swallow a yacht with people on it, and like,

1301
00:59:25,159 --> 00:59:28,000
for like the first I don't know to three quarters

1302
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,440
of a second, I'm like whoa, And then finally I'm

1303
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,159
like no, like that's not real, it didn't happen. But

1304
00:59:34,239 --> 00:59:36,280
like there's that moment where you want to believe that,

1305
00:59:36,519 --> 00:59:39,079
like I'm seeing something that I've never seen before, and

1306
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:42,920
then you're like, whoa, pump the brakes. But even as

1307
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,360
I said, even in my mindset, you're so we so

1308
00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:49,519
want to go there. We want to believe that, and

1309
00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:52,960
that's what I think that again, regardless of what you

1310
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:56,199
believe or don't believe that, I think collectively, if we

1311
00:59:56,199 --> 00:59:58,719
could just pump the brakes a little bit all this

1312
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,920
stuff and just say, wait a minute before I leap

1313
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,639
in and start sharing every last thought I have on something,

1314
01:00:03,679 --> 01:00:06,239
Let's make sure I fully understand it, make sure that

1315
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,760
I understand how I think about it. That I'm considering

1316
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,480
different viewpoints and then maybe put a toe in.

1317
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,039
Speaker 1: The water exactly. And I think that's really really great advice.

1318
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:16,119
Speaker 2: Person.

1319
01:00:16,199 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, we do right, because

1320
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:21,719
this is the thing, but you but it's also we've

1321
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,559
seen people burned by doing the opposite, for sure.

1322
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: Burned.

1323
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:29,679
Speaker 1: People have lost jobs, people have been fired, people have

1324
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,679
lost friends, family members, don't speak to people because of

1325
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,280
certain things. That and it does it even have to

1326
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,360
be politics. That'll be the hot one that everybody will

1327
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,440
jump to. Let it be anything, all of the above.

1328
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,079
You're right, Let it be anything. Let it be somebody

1329
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,360
got drunk and after seeing someone at the family funeral

1330
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:48,079
and your emotions are all over the place. You're not

1331
01:00:48,119 --> 01:00:50,159
in a great state of mind, and you fire off

1332
01:00:50,199 --> 01:00:52,159
something at one o'clock in the morning after a couple

1333
01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:54,760
of cocktails and now all cut off. You're cut off

1334
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,320
like no one, hey that Christmas is alone, right, It's

1335
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,320
just it's these are the consequences of the time we

1336
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,400
live in. And I do wonder in a way, as

1337
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,039
we talk about sort of the pendulum of life, if

1338
01:01:09,079 --> 01:01:11,039
things will swing back a little bit to the more

1339
01:01:11,079 --> 01:01:14,559
of let's be let's try to bring some rationale into

1340
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:17,119
the moment here and look at things. I'm not saying

1341
01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:20,039
that everything we're seeing is not as it is. Maybe

1342
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:22,760
it is, but let's really kind of prove it before

1343
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:27,079
we start swinging, because people are punching yeah and figuratively

1344
01:01:27,239 --> 01:01:28,400
and literally.

1345
01:01:28,119 --> 01:01:33,679
Speaker 4: Yes, and and it's amazing how quickly we can, you know,

1346
01:01:34,599 --> 01:01:37,000
dig our heels in and decide we're not moving off

1347
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,159
that position, you know, in a moment's not in a

1348
01:01:40,199 --> 01:01:46,239
moment one misinterpreted message like yeah, you know, unwind you know,

1349
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:47,480
decades of friendship.

1350
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:51,039
Speaker 2: It is crazy. Do you miss the news at all?

1351
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,639
Speaker 4: So I get that asked that question, I'm sure you do.

1352
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,480
I mean, here's what I would say. Certainly, don't miss

1353
01:01:58,519 --> 01:02:03,239
the hours I described. Yes, I don't miss the murder

1354
01:02:03,239 --> 01:02:06,159
in the mayhem. You know, it's it's just troubling, it's sad,

1355
01:02:06,239 --> 01:02:10,719
it's awful. What I do miss are the people I

1356
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,159
worked with, the relationships and the atmosphere of the newsroom.

1357
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there was an energy. There's an energy

1358
01:02:17,639 --> 01:02:17,920
in there.

1359
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,559
Speaker 4: And I think what I what I used to tell

1360
01:02:22,599 --> 01:02:24,559
students that I believe this is that people that find

1361
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:27,400
themselves in that environment are naturally curious.

1362
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:29,519
Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that's a good thing to be

1363
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:29,800
in life.

1364
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 4: You know, intelligence, lack of intelligence, whatever, but you are

1365
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,599
just naturally curious. You're inquisitive. You look at things and

1366
01:02:36,639 --> 01:02:39,000
you ask questions like why is that that way? What

1367
01:02:39,079 --> 01:02:41,039
if we turned it like this, would it be different?

1368
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 2: You know? You just your mind works that way.

1369
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,679
Speaker 4: And I think when you're around other people that have

1370
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,119
that kind of outlook on the world that it's it

1371
01:02:48,119 --> 01:02:49,920
can be a really interesting.

1372
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: Place to be.

1373
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 4: No two days were alike, right, And I think there's

1374
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:54,559
a lot to be said for that. I think, you know,

1375
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:57,159
I'm sure there are people that would think about their life, Oh,

1376
01:02:57,199 --> 01:03:01,000
it's the same old routine, you know, you know, living

1377
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:01,760
for the weekend.

1378
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,519
Speaker 2: You know, look, I get it some degree.

1379
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:06,199
Speaker 4: I'm living for the weekend now and I'm happy about it.

1380
01:03:06,239 --> 01:03:08,559
But there was there was an energy in there that

1381
01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:12,960
I think is hard to replicate in most other work settings.

1382
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:18,519
Speaker 1: Would you ever see yourself of being a teacher, and

1383
01:03:18,559 --> 01:03:20,719
I mean like at a college level or something for

1384
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,280
these types of things, maybe even more for the writing aspect, Yeah,

1385
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,679
I mean there are many people that worry about what's

1386
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:29,280
going to happen in writing. Another thing that came up

1387
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,679
in the podcast, and I do reference it every once

1388
01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:33,920
in a while because I think I had a very

1389
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,920
different reaction to the person who put it forth is oh,

1390
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,159
they're not even teaching cursive anymore, And I went, who cares?

1391
01:03:41,719 --> 01:03:43,960
And they're like, well, I go, yeah, but what does

1392
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,480
that have impact on your life?

1393
01:03:45,519 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 2: There's so much the what is it? And I understand.

1394
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: Because I say, I know people with beautiful penmanship and

1395
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,519
they are as dumb as could be. So don't tell

1396
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:57,760
me that it's a sign of intelligence necessarily here. But

1397
01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:01,559
the ability to write, to care, you know thoughts, be

1398
01:04:01,679 --> 01:04:05,119
able to take thoughts, great ideas will never go out

1399
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:08,239
of style. Nope, and communicating them effectively will never go

1400
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:08,760
out of style.

1401
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,079
Speaker 4: It's an essential skill. Yeah, I don't care what you do.

1402
01:04:11,199 --> 01:04:13,400
It's an essential saying. Yeah, I agree about a lawyer

1403
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,320
delivering the closing arguments. You better be able to take

1404
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:18,199
everything that was laid out over the course of that

1405
01:04:18,239 --> 01:04:20,519
two week trial and plant it into the mind of

1406
01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:22,280
those jurors exactly the way you want to.

1407
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 2: That is a skill.

1408
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:26,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's not just about writing a story for television news.

1409
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,079
That's a skill that can transfer into a number of

1410
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:31,239
different kinds of careers.

1411
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:34,239
Speaker 1: The thing that I noticed, as you said earlier, the

1412
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,480
through line for you was writing right, and it was

1413
01:04:36,519 --> 01:04:39,519
taking what are the four best baskets that tell the

1414
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:42,840
story or whatever that was. You have a passion for

1415
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:43,840
that writing and stuff.

1416
01:04:44,039 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 2: I would you take that on? Would you do a book?

1417
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:48,840
But I mean, would you take on teaching that to

1418
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,079
someone at a collegiate level. I would be interested in

1419
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:53,679
doing that. I would. I tell you that.

1420
01:04:55,119 --> 01:04:57,639
Speaker 4: My hesitation in it is not that part of it.

1421
01:04:57,639 --> 01:05:00,840
It's just that the world is solving so quickly in

1422
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,760
terms of technology that I candidly sometimes I feel like

1423
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:05,360
I'm just not.

1424
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 2: Up to qualified. Yeah, you know, I see that.

1425
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 4: Sometimes I think, you know, like even my own children,

1426
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,920
I'm going to them to try and how does this work?

1427
01:05:13,079 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: You know?

1428
01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, like, how do you stand in front of

1429
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,280
a classroom when when the students are the ones who

1430
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:18,280
have the answers?

1431
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:18,599
Speaker 2: Right?

1432
01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:21,599
Speaker 4: But you're right, I think I think there's something to

1433
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:24,679
be said for my life experience in journalism set that

1434
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,000
I think could bring something tangible to a classroom setting.

1435
01:05:28,039 --> 01:05:30,559
Speaker 2: I would enjoy that. I've always en sued great at it.

1436
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 4: I've enjoyed being in those settings in the past. Yeah,

1437
01:05:34,599 --> 01:05:36,239
it's just never really presented itself.

1438
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: The uh.

1439
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,119
Speaker 1: I know the use of AI is certainly a concern

1440
01:05:40,199 --> 01:05:42,960
for many people in terms of let's just say writing, right,

1441
01:05:43,119 --> 01:05:45,960
you got your chat gput your claudes. And I'm only

1442
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,199
touching on what I've experienced. But I think that they

1443
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,519
you're never putting as I like to say that Genie

1444
01:05:52,519 --> 01:05:53,199
back in the bottle.

1445
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 2: It's not happening. So it's here.

1446
01:05:55,559 --> 01:05:58,079
Speaker 1: How do we use it as a tool for things?

1447
01:05:58,159 --> 01:06:00,360
And I remember talking to a report order from the

1448
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,960
New York Times. He said, I use chatch ept sometimes

1449
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,480
when I'm stuck. How can I say this better? What

1450
01:06:07,639 --> 01:06:10,880
turn of phrase? And it gives you something quickly. I've

1451
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,440
had it where I go summarize this article for me

1452
01:06:13,599 --> 01:06:15,760
because I just don't have time to go through stuff

1453
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,559
and boom, give me an angle to think about or something.

1454
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 2: And it does it.

1455
01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:22,519
Speaker 1: And I think if you but you have to use

1456
01:06:22,599 --> 01:06:25,280
it in addition to yeah, would be mine. It has

1457
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:26,840
to be an ad Yeah, I think it has to

1458
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,960
enhance AI plus whatever you your ingenuity?

1459
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:34,079
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, And I think you know, so much of

1460
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:39,159
writing is tied into language, expression and words and you know,

1461
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:42,480
the right word can really help drive home the essence

1462
01:06:42,519 --> 01:06:45,280
of the thought. You know, I think that we all

1463
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,360
find ourselves at different times in that process going I

1464
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,079
can't quite put my I know where I want this

1465
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:52,199
to go, I can't quite get my finger there. I'm

1466
01:06:52,239 --> 01:06:54,920
not I can't. I've not used a I don't really

1467
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,559
have experience with it. But I could see where that

1468
01:06:57,679 --> 01:07:00,960
might illuminate choices where you could say, yeah, that is

1469
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,840
what I'm trying to do. Let me incorporate that into

1470
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:04,719
what I'm working on here.

1471
01:07:04,719 --> 01:07:07,199
Speaker 1: You don't want to lose even your own voice in that.

1472
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,960
You know, you think of authors. You knew a Steinbeck,

1473
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,360
and you knew a Hemingway, and you knew there there

1474
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:17,559
were specific styles of writing. Even trying to think of

1475
01:07:17,559 --> 01:07:20,199
the who is the journalist who did leaving Las Vegas?

1476
01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:21,719
Speaker 2: And Hunter?

1477
01:07:23,079 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean there was a style to this, right Hunter

1478
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:28,239
ass time. They had style, and you knew what it

1479
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,480
was when you started to read it, even if it

1480
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:34,199
was under a pen name in a Rolling Stone article

1481
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,960
like and everybody figures out who it is? There was

1482
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,599
a little excitement to that's right, But there there was

1483
01:07:39,639 --> 01:07:42,159
something in that style that I hope doesn't go away.

1484
01:07:42,199 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 4: Either I was going to say, we are as a culture,

1485
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,880
as a society better for that, Yes, for those for

1486
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,360
that nuance and expression and voice, no question.

1487
01:07:54,519 --> 01:07:57,639
Speaker 2: Vonnegut I mean has its place. Sure it does.

1488
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,639
Speaker 4: If we're wrapping up notes on you know, somebody's course

1489
01:08:01,679 --> 01:08:04,519
of medical treatment, you know, we don't need to decide,

1490
01:08:04,519 --> 01:08:06,440
you know, like we don't need to argue over the

1491
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,360
authenticity of who are you know, authored these notes? But

1492
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:15,639
in terms of culture and expression, and you know, again,

1493
01:08:15,679 --> 01:08:17,800
you think about some of the things in Rochester, the

1494
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,079
cultural things that we have here that make this such

1495
01:08:20,079 --> 01:08:23,239
a unique place to live. You wouldn't want that lost

1496
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:27,600
through AI enhanced, Yes, but not lost, not replaced, right,

1497
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,399
we'd be I think would be the lesser for it.

1498
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:33,880
You're right, we're not going backwards. This is the new reality.

1499
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:37,840
And much like the Internet itself, I think we're in

1500
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,560
a period of the wild West, right, you know where

1501
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,319
I think even school districts and I don't want to

1502
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:44,760
speak out of turn, I'm not an educator, but you know,

1503
01:08:45,119 --> 01:08:48,680
are wrestling with how do how do we incorporate this

1504
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,840
tool into the learning process of our students, because it's

1505
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:54,720
going to be part of their adult lives.

1506
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,239
Speaker 1: I can tell you that, yes, that's a great point.

1507
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:00,000
But I also do know that they now have technology

1508
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:05,640
where they can watch in real time as a student

1509
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,319
puts together an essay to and I've seen a thing

1510
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:11,319
where they go, don't be like this guy, and it's

1511
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:13,319
a three hundred and fifty word essay.

1512
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:18,279
Speaker 2: It's done in twelve seconds. It's just cut fag, and

1513
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:21,960
I go, come on, you know you didn't even try, like,

1514
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:23,000
you didn't even type.

1515
01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:26,079
Speaker 1: They can see how many keystrokes you do, like through

1516
01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:29,680
the technology, So you know, just as much as I

1517
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,640
like to always say that the world is designed by

1518
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,199
geniuses to be run by idiots, right, and if you

1519
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,039
and everything, Mark, I forgive me, but everything devolves down

1520
01:09:38,039 --> 01:09:41,199
to a penis joke, right, And somebody with a camera

1521
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,159
right this whoever invented the camera that we can film,

1522
01:09:44,199 --> 01:09:46,720
We could go live from anywhere. You can see things

1523
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:48,640
that you've never seen. We can go to the depths

1524
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,640
of the ocean and all that, and what do I see?

1525
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 2: Some guys junk? You know what I mean? That's what

1526
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,199
it becomes.

1527
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I think this has been a really really interesting conversation.

1528
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 2: What is uh, what's going to happen? With the potholes.

1529
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,960
By the way, I saw you.

1530
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,560
Speaker 1: On the news, I think talking about yeah, potholes and stuff.

1531
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've done a couple of pothole interviews of late.

1532
01:10:12,399 --> 01:10:14,600
This is the time of year for this is pothole time.

1533
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:16,359
This is pothole season.

1534
01:10:16,039 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I said once marijuana was legalized,

1535
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,920
I was going to open a store called potholes.

1536
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 2: Never did, but I mean.

1537
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 4: Just it's always the great ideas we never grasp. Yeah,

1538
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,000
I mean, this is the time of year, and you

1539
01:10:30,039 --> 01:10:34,359
know my recommendations are you know, Triple A's recommendations. This

1540
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:36,720
is a fact of life for us. They're out there

1541
01:10:37,119 --> 01:10:38,840
and as soon as you patch one, another one's going

1542
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,520
to open up. I mean, this winter, we talked about it.

1543
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,119
You know, it's been more of a typical winter with

1544
01:10:43,119 --> 01:10:44,920
the freezing and the thawing and a lot of you

1545
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,199
know where you're getting moisture into the crevices in the

1546
01:10:47,279 --> 01:10:49,359
roadway and then it breaks it up as cars drive

1547
01:10:49,399 --> 01:10:49,760
over it.

1548
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 2: You know, the weight of the vehicle. So you know, the.

1549
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 4: Recommendation is and this is I'm always careful about sharing

1550
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,439
this recommendation, but it's if you're driving along you see

1551
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:00,960
a pothole, try to avoid it.

1552
01:11:01,039 --> 01:11:02,279
Speaker 2: Yes, that's okay, Yes.

1553
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 4: But not at the expense of putting yourself or another

1554
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,199
motorist at risk right swerving right, We don't we don't

1555
01:11:08,199 --> 01:11:10,600
want to swerve and make things worse. And you know,

1556
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,600
so decelerate, don't hammer on the brake over the pothole,

1557
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,479
because the harder that impact. You know, whether you're hitting

1558
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,279
the brakes or you're you miss it, you don't see

1559
01:11:19,319 --> 01:11:19,920
it at all.

1560
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:20,279
Speaker 2: And you just.

1561
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 4: Race right over it is you know, you're you're dramatically

1562
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:27,640
bringing up the possibility that you're going to damage the

1563
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,359
vehicle in some way, the suspension, the alignment, the tire,

1564
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:31,279
the rim whatever.

1565
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's smart too.

1566
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: I always try to say, take your foot off the

1567
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,119
gas yep, both in life and in your car.

1568
01:11:38,399 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 2: See, we've touched on that. We don't need, we don't

1569
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:42,359
need to hit it.

1570
01:11:43,239 --> 01:11:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure the passion for sports never leaves any of us. Uh,

1571
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,479
football your favorite or I mean you played soccer.

1572
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:50,399
Speaker 2: I played soccer.

1573
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, my favorite sport to play was basketball as a kid.

1574
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,640
I want, I mean, I just loved the game. It

1575
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,680
just was not genetically happening. Okay, you know, I was

1576
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,520
you know, okay again, but not.

1577
01:12:02,199 --> 01:12:03,520
Speaker 2: Was never gonna take it anywhere.

1578
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 4: Soccer was enough of a game where I could kind

1579
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:08,319
of genetically make it work, you know, like if you

1580
01:12:08,359 --> 01:12:11,840
had the skills, you could play. But football is my

1581
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,279
favorite to watch. Yeah, and my favorite play now is golf. Okay,

1582
01:12:15,359 --> 01:12:17,680
So that puts me in a large group of people.

1583
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 1: When we the NFL Players Association has come out with UH, basically,

1584
01:12:24,119 --> 01:12:27,239
it's the road map if you're a free agent what

1585
01:12:27,359 --> 01:12:28,199
teams to avoid.

1586
01:12:29,159 --> 01:12:30,399
Speaker 2: You know, it's almost like the Triple A.

1587
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: Stay off this road a lot of potholes, yes, and

1588
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,960
we see different things the b The Bills get a

1589
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,800
B at coaching and things. This stuff is subjective. They

1590
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,039
got an F or an F minus and travel so

1591
01:12:43,119 --> 01:12:44,359
Terry needs to buy some new plays.

1592
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:47,520
Speaker 2: I get it so right, But when you have seen the.

1593
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,399
Speaker 1: Bills from your first time here, and it was Music

1594
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,720
City miracle, right when Tennessee all of a sudden pulls

1595
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:55,039
it off. It was Doug Fluti and everybody wondered, why

1596
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:55,560
would Doug?

1597
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 2: Was it Doug? Rob Johnson replaced Flute in the lineup.

1598
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,680
That's what Yes, that was what it was.

1599
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,119
Speaker 1: Yes, So all that stuff to where they are today

1600
01:13:06,119 --> 01:13:08,720
is light years apart.

1601
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 2: In many ways. It's a different game.

1602
01:13:11,079 --> 01:13:14,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, it's a different it's played differently, it's

1603
01:13:14,399 --> 01:13:18,600
it's legislated differently. The rules have evolved to really emphasize

1604
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,159
offense in the game. I'm not saying anything that a

1605
01:13:21,159 --> 01:13:24,199
hardcore football fan would disagree with. It's just a different game,

1606
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:30,479
much more emphasis on passing. Yeah, there's and appropriately so

1607
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:35,319
a much greater emphasis on players safety. But yeah, and

1608
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:37,920
in terms of what you're seeing on the field, I

1609
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,359
look at a guy like Josh Allen, I mean, he

1610
01:13:40,399 --> 01:13:41,800
could have played in any era.

1611
01:13:42,199 --> 01:13:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean, He's really one of

1612
01:13:44,279 --> 01:13:44,960
those guys.

1613
01:13:45,399 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 4: I say this anytime I get into a longer conversation

1614
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:53,600
about the Bills, you know, I always say I still,

1615
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,840
even now, I'm not sure people really appreciate just how

1616
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:02,039
good he is, right, He's what he does is amazingly

1617
01:14:02,119 --> 01:14:05,800
to me on some level, taken for granted. I'm sure

1618
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:06,920
a lot of fans be like, I don't take it

1619
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,319
for granted. I think he's incredible, yes, but I just

1620
01:14:09,359 --> 01:14:12,640
don't know that people truly understand how gifted he is.

1621
01:14:13,079 --> 01:14:18,920
He is a generational talent. You know, again, we understand,

1622
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:21,920
you know, the way sports works that you've got to

1623
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,479
do certain things to get into a certain pantheon. You

1624
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,960
gotta get to a super Bowl, you gotta win a

1625
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,560
Super Bowl, you got to get an MVP on the resume.

1626
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 2: Those kinds of things.

1627
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 4: Those become separators between the Dan Marinos and the Joe

1628
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:38,760
Montanas of the world. But his just his pure athletic ability,

1629
01:14:39,159 --> 01:14:43,560
his ability to make plays and to be consistently successful

1630
01:14:44,399 --> 01:14:47,439
is unbelievable, and I just find it amazing because this

1631
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:52,199
franchise struggled really from Jim Kelly until Josh Allen to

1632
01:14:52,239 --> 01:14:54,960
find the guy, I mean, Fluty. There was magic there

1633
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,600
for but he was at the end, you know. I

1634
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,960
mean he gave them everything he had, but he just

1635
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,920
didn't have a ton left in the tank. Obviously, there

1636
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:07,199
was issues with Ralph I think favoring Rob Johnson and

1637
01:15:07,239 --> 01:15:09,479
wanting him to be in the lineup, and that probably

1638
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,000
brought Fluti's era to an enderly, But it was never

1639
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,640
going to be a decade long run that way. He

1640
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,840
was always sort of a stop gap, and from that

1641
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,079
point forward they never really landed on the guy. And

1642
01:15:20,119 --> 01:15:22,279
then they you know, they didn't hit a home run

1643
01:15:22,319 --> 01:15:23,880
they hit a granny with Josh Allen.

1644
01:15:24,239 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: It's so strange because when I go back to that

1645
01:15:27,079 --> 01:15:29,760
draft and I think people saying we picked the wrong.

1646
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 2: Josh, I thought they picked the Wrongosh Rose in this compeg,

1647
01:15:33,399 --> 01:15:37,479
I was that guy. Was that guy? Yeah, we was.

1648
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,159
Speaker 1: Accuracy was under question and all that, and we've seen

1649
01:15:41,199 --> 01:15:44,880
what he's become or maybe always was, maybe always was.

1650
01:15:45,039 --> 01:15:49,399
Speaker 2: I mean he developed you. I always say his coaching

1651
01:15:49,399 --> 01:15:49,880
with Dable.

1652
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,279
Speaker 4: I think when he first got here was an absolute

1653
01:15:53,279 --> 01:15:53,840
game changer.

1654
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you look at him from.

1655
01:15:55,279 --> 01:15:57,359
Speaker 4: That first year to that second season, he was a

1656
01:15:57,399 --> 01:15:58,439
different football player.

1657
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,319
Speaker 2: And that's that's his hard work.

1658
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,079
Speaker 4: But there's an element of coaching there as well, helping

1659
01:16:03,119 --> 01:16:08,039
him understand uh to uh, to connect the mind to

1660
01:16:08,119 --> 01:16:10,760
what the body is capable of, you know, to put

1661
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:12,760
those two in sync where they're working together.

1662
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,039
Speaker 1: Not necessarily so funny, because you could have some great

1663
01:16:15,079 --> 01:16:17,880
coaches but just dummies that you're coaching. And I use

1664
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,439
the term loosely, but that just aren't able to grasp

1665
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,119
it or physically perform it. And here comes Josh and

1666
01:16:24,199 --> 01:16:26,880
so now you're he's not just a great player, but

1667
01:16:27,039 --> 01:16:28,479
also you're great coaches.

1668
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 2: But don't get that guy and you're terrible. You may

1669
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,079
be as good as any other coach in the league.

1670
01:16:34,119 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 4: It's amazing when you put those two elements together, because

1671
01:16:37,159 --> 01:16:42,239
any any anything that's lacking in that equation and it

1672
01:16:42,279 --> 01:16:44,640
falls apart. You don't you don't get to where you

1673
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:45,199
could go.

1674
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 2: You're right.

1675
01:16:46,039 --> 01:16:49,359
Speaker 4: I mean you think Allen had gone to a lot

1676
01:16:49,399 --> 01:16:50,119
of other teams.

1677
01:16:50,359 --> 01:16:52,399
Speaker 2: How does this play out? I don't know. We don't

1678
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:53,279
know that. We don't.

1679
01:16:53,319 --> 01:16:55,239
Speaker 4: I think it's successful, but I don't know if it's

1680
01:16:55,239 --> 01:16:56,359
as successful as it's been.

1681
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:57,239
Speaker 2: I don't either.

1682
01:16:57,399 --> 01:16:59,199
Speaker 1: I think that you Attle was the only other team

1683
01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:01,199
who wanted them, and would think at that time they

1684
01:17:01,239 --> 01:17:03,239
had Carol.

1685
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:07,560
Speaker 4: And Russ in his prime, you know, yes, you know,

1686
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:08,920
so it would have been hard for him. He would

1687
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,119
have had to sit and watch and it just would

1688
01:17:11,119 --> 01:17:14,439
have been different. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a

1689
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,960
million things we could talk about with the bills, you know.

1690
01:17:17,159 --> 01:17:20,319
And I know there's probably somebody listening saying, yeah, and

1691
01:17:20,359 --> 01:17:22,399
he had the football, you know, at the end of

1692
01:17:22,399 --> 01:17:24,079
the game and couldn't get it done, you know, and

1693
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:26,199
you're talking about how great he is. I guess I

1694
01:17:26,199 --> 01:17:29,479
would just say, like again, like look at all these games,

1695
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:33,039
they're never even in that situation if he doesn't do

1696
01:17:33,159 --> 01:17:35,359
the million great things he did along the way.

1697
01:17:36,199 --> 01:17:39,399
Speaker 1: Again, another game with the Bills and the Chiefs that

1698
01:17:40,319 --> 01:17:43,680
resultant rule changes. They're going to put some technology in

1699
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:47,800
the ball to try to more accurately determine first downs.

1700
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:48,520
Speaker 2: I'm good with that.

1701
01:17:49,079 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: I am as well hard though, too, because when does

1702
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:54,319
the nego I mean, it's the knee, when the ne

1703
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:55,239
goes down, right.

1704
01:17:55,239 --> 01:17:57,359
Speaker 4: The part that I'm not I guess you know the

1705
01:17:57,359 --> 01:17:59,119
proof will be on the putting when it actually they

1706
01:17:59,159 --> 01:18:01,399
start playing games, you know, Like my understanding is that

1707
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,039
the official will still spot the football and then they'll

1708
01:18:04,079 --> 01:18:08,119
determine virtually whether or not it's a first down.

1709
01:18:08,399 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 2: I don't, I can't. I guess I can't quite see

1710
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,119
it one of these ones that we have. But I

1711
01:18:13,159 --> 01:18:14,960
do think it's a step in the right direction, sure,

1712
01:18:15,079 --> 01:18:15,319
I think.

1713
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,560
Speaker 4: Look, one of the hard things about watching football right

1714
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:21,640
now is watching a game and feeling like pivotal plays

1715
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,439
just didn't get called correctly.

1716
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 2: One way or the other. You know that it's on

1717
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:28,239
some level it undermines the integrity.

1718
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:33,159
Speaker 1: Of it, certainly, And I would say that I think

1719
01:18:33,319 --> 01:18:38,560
the influence of gambling. And I say this because, yes,

1720
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,439
like it or not, the NFL is in bed less

1721
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:47,319
in bed than Lebron James pimping DraftKings. They don't allow

1722
01:18:47,319 --> 01:18:50,319
their players to do that. But you are in bed

1723
01:18:50,359 --> 01:18:52,880
to the point where it's there. You've got a franchise

1724
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:54,439
in Vegas, You've got in bed.

1725
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the.

1726
01:18:58,359 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 1: You owe it then to be as accurate as possible

1727
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:03,840
in these places. You just you have to. There's no

1728
01:19:04,039 --> 01:19:06,199
there's no choice. I think there really is.

1729
01:19:06,279 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 2: It's it's a literal game changer for some people. A

1730
01:19:10,039 --> 01:19:11,279
way these games there's just.

1731
01:19:11,239 --> 01:19:14,399
Speaker 4: Too much at stake in every way, there's too much

1732
01:19:14,399 --> 01:19:16,520
at stake right not to get it right or as

1733
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:17,760
close to right as you can.

1734
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:18,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1735
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:20,359
Speaker 1: Uh, this has been a lot of fun. I really

1736
01:19:20,399 --> 01:19:22,960
appreciate you coming in. What a great story. I love

1737
01:19:23,039 --> 01:19:26,119
the whole trajectory. I love the through line of the

1738
01:19:26,159 --> 01:19:30,199
writing and distilling it down and and something that is

1739
01:19:30,319 --> 01:19:31,800
just stilling I think will.

1740
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:34,159
Speaker 2: Never go away. I think that will never go away.

1741
01:19:34,159 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 4: And I would joke and say, you know, the great

1742
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,520
part about it is that I really believe it too,

1743
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:40,840
you know, like I said it, but I really believe

1744
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,439
it too. I think that those are skills that translate

1745
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,479
across the board. When you're good at those things, it

1746
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,760
qualifies you to do a lot of different kinds of things.

1747
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:54,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that is great advice. And I uh,

1748
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:57,479
I'm curious to see what's what's on the Group of

1749
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,840
Horizon and somebody the diferent ways.

1750
01:20:01,319 --> 01:20:06,279
Speaker 4: Well, you know, we're getting into travel season, so we're

1751
01:20:06,279 --> 01:20:08,439
looking at you know, from a Triple A standpoint. For

1752
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,079
the Group of Horizon, we're starting to talk about spring

1753
01:20:11,119 --> 01:20:13,239
break travel and the places people are going to go.

1754
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:15,640
You know, we get into May Memorial Day and we

1755
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:18,079
get into the hundred Deadliest Days of summer. The one thing,

1756
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,760
you know that I will say about, the one thing

1757
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,680
that I've embraced and enjoyed about working at Triple A,

1758
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:28,439
that I've found fulfilling, that I have found fulfilling, is

1759
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,960
that we do such a great job of emphasizing traffic safety.

1760
01:20:32,199 --> 01:20:32,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1761
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,039
Speaker 4: And you know, so like we'll get into Memorial Day,

1762
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,159
into the summertime when more teenagers are out driving and

1763
01:20:41,239 --> 01:20:43,640
talking about the hundred Deadliest Days and making sure that

1764
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:47,479
the teenagers are doing you know, newly licensed teens or

1765
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,079
people in general are doing the right things behind the wheel,

1766
01:20:50,079 --> 01:20:52,319
and that you know, we as parents and adults are

1767
01:20:52,319 --> 01:20:54,520
modeling that behavior behind the wheel as well.

1768
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:59,600
Speaker 1: I have joked for a while that driving used to

1769
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,520
be the activity. Now it's what we do while we

1770
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:06,880
check our email, text our friends, surf the web, watch something.

1771
01:21:07,079 --> 01:21:09,279
You know what I'm saying, And it's those types of things.

1772
01:21:09,319 --> 01:21:11,960
And I even worry. I have a young young guy

1773
01:21:13,239 --> 01:21:14,960
that'll often say to me, Hey, you got to see

1774
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:16,880
this video. I said, what am I doing right now?

1775
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:19,159
Speaker 2: Driving? I'm not taking my eyes off the road.

1776
01:21:19,399 --> 01:21:21,399
Speaker 1: And I really want to emphasize that because he'll be

1777
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:24,960
fifteen and you know it's not long that he's going

1778
01:21:25,039 --> 01:21:27,880
to want before you know it, right, so you want to, like,

1779
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:31,520
I think that's great advice, modeling the behavior and not.

1780
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:32,319
Speaker 2: Always easy to do.

1781
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 4: No, So that's that, you know, that's what's literally coming

1782
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,960
down the road for me. You know, I'm trying to

1783
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:42,279
lean into those aspects of my work and really enjoy.

1784
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,159
Speaker 2: The driving reason.

1785
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,359
Speaker 4: For making this change in my life is to just

1786
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:48,640
enjoy these moments with my.

1787
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:49,640
Speaker 2: Family, all of them.

1788
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 4: Ye savor them, and then you know what they say,

1789
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:55,119
you know, right off into the sun.

1790
01:21:55,079 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 2: Right off into the sunset. Who knows could be anything,

1791
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,159
could reinvent myself. I could professor. That's all I'm saying.

1792
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,079
That's such a nice way about you.

1793
01:22:03,079 --> 01:22:05,359
Speaker 1: You can spring well to the kids, tell them the

1794
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:07,479
stories some ports through life.

1795
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 2: That would be awesome. I think it would be awesome.

1796
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,680
This is great for Mark Ruba. I'm Bill Moran. We'll

1797
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:25,840
see you next week. I won in Cotail. Didn't know

1798
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:26,439
what to do.

1799
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:31,000
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1800
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