WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>So it's so insane.

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<v Speaker 2>Bunker bunker, bunker.

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<v Speaker 3>Knocker.

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<v Speaker 4>I got married.

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<v Speaker 5>I got married to a funko who.

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<v Speaker 3>We got wedded.

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<v Speaker 5>Come joint in the subway, he shot, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Am married, I'm married to my func.

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<v Speaker 5>But do we get joined? Co write a sooner subway

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<v Speaker 5>he shot.

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<v Speaker 4>It's as and biscuits and linerals. They come to to

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<v Speaker 4>my whole life a spit watch other two. We have

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<v Speaker 4>successfully cocked our block. We have successfully pretended to burn sage,

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<v Speaker 4>which actually if you pretend to burn sage, it only

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<v Speaker 4>banishes pretend bad spirits. Happy Christmas everyone, Eve on the

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<v Speaker 4>real Christmas, not the fake Pope Christmas, not fake Papal Christmas.

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<v Speaker 4>It's the real Christmas.

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<v Speaker 3>Eve.

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<v Speaker 4>Hope you got good presence if you did it, not

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<v Speaker 4>my problem. Also, you can support my stream via what

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<v Speaker 4>are called super chats, which are done through stream Labs.

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<v Speaker 4>Stream Labs is the link that's pinned the top of

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<v Speaker 4>the chat. You can also find that link at all

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<v Speaker 4>times in the show description. Show description has all the

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<v Speaker 4>links that help you help me to help you through

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<v Speaker 4>supporting the show through all the varied and a sundry

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<v Speaker 4>ways to support the show. Welcome, everybody, shout out, got

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<v Speaker 4>a few super chats to read from the last time

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<v Speaker 4>that I did not get to I meant to make

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<v Speaker 4>a coffee and I didn't get to it. Yet. My

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<v Speaker 4>allergies are going crazy as usual, since I left a

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<v Speaker 4>thirty two degrees scenario and came to a seventy five

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<v Speaker 4>degrees scenario. And when it's seventy five degrees, it means

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<v Speaker 4>that pollen boys on the attack. Jayder three dollars is

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<v Speaker 4>the fake Jenner. You should watch the movie Death Dream

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen seventy four. It's the best vampire movie. It's a

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<v Speaker 4>mind controlled Vietnam that who Comes Home type of deal.

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<v Speaker 4>The same to the Mad Black Christmas. I think I

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<v Speaker 4>read that last time Dead Don't end your stream, it's

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<v Speaker 4>the best stream ever. New Year celebration. Jamie is reading

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<v Speaker 4>her book? Who reading whose book? Vane three dollars. What's

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<v Speaker 4>the best kind of Bitcoin stories? Probably Lederer? Harry Sapounds

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<v Speaker 4>ten dollars. Happy New Year, Jay, God bless your family.

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<v Speaker 4>Carlo Phelps three dollars. Christ is born Say John Evangelist's

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<v Speaker 4>Orthodox Mission recently found a property for a permanent mission

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<v Speaker 4>location in Mesa, Arizona. I mean Mesa, Arizona. I'm not

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<v Speaker 4>a grifter, but I love Orthodox community, so spread this

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<v Speaker 4>word everywhere we would need. We need help raising money.

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<v Speaker 4>Carlisle Phelps, Okay, well how do we? I guess people

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<v Speaker 4>just look for that online Orthodox Mission, Saint John the

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<v Speaker 4>Evangelist Orthodox Mission, and Mason Arizona. So I don't have

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<v Speaker 4>any links to support it, but thank you. If you

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<v Speaker 4>would like to support them, go find their their links.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess google it. Haiti's undead ten dollars. I just

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<v Speaker 4>ordered my first commissioned yakoub icon. I must pay homage

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<v Speaker 4>to my creator. Thank you for the recommendations. You're welcome.

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<v Speaker 4>Zalmoxi's fifty dollars. He's we hadn't even started yet, and

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<v Speaker 4>we're already we're already retiring from all this bank Geeddy

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<v Speaker 4>Green that's coming in. Thank you so much, Zalmoxis. Have

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<v Speaker 4>you talked about the history of liturgy and how it

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<v Speaker 4>informs the Biblical canon? No, you often talk about this.

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<v Speaker 4>I saw a video where you mentioned literagy. Saint Mark.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you have any book recommendations of the history of liturgy? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>I would read the Williams and Install book on the

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<v Speaker 4>History of the Temple and Synagogue. Liturgy as it influences

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<v Speaker 4>the Orthodox Church, and I would read Hugh Wybruce book

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<v Speaker 4>The Byzantine Liturgy and Why. Bruce book is particularly impactful

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<v Speaker 4>because it was written by an Anglican who supports a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of the contentious perhaps ideas of the Orthodox Church.

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<v Speaker 4>MKG ten dollars, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 4>You mentioned a while back the Orthodox Study Bible had

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<v Speaker 4>in your in my opinion, five to seven mistakes. Do

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<v Speaker 4>you have a go to place to refer for those now?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean it's just things I've noticed over I don't

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<v Speaker 4>know ten years of using Orthodox Study Bible. I mean

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<v Speaker 4>not bragging, but I mean I've worn mine out. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't have a list of places where I thought it

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<v Speaker 4>was a mistake. Do you think it will be changed

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<v Speaker 4>or fixed? I don't think anything will be changed because

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<v Speaker 4>I think that people that wrote the notes, whoever they are,

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<v Speaker 4>we're writing, you know, their best informed theological opinions. Cayden

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<v Speaker 4>Scrugs three dollars three dollar. I was baptizing the Orthodox

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<v Speaker 4>Church my Wifeishoryay. Thanks to you. Hey, glad to hear that.

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<v Speaker 4>Cayden Scrugs BMX ten dollars. Christ is born thank you,

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<v Speaker 4>thank you, BMX, Merry Christmas everybody, and a little bit

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<v Speaker 4>of an update on me personally. I challenge myself to

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<v Speaker 4>be more loving. This is gonna be the year twenty

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<v Speaker 4>twenty five is gonna be the year of love. So

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<v Speaker 4>let's remind ourselves what is love. Love is patient and kind.

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<v Speaker 4>It does not envy, It does not parade itself, is

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<v Speaker 4>not puffed up, doesn't behave rudely, does not seek its own,

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<v Speaker 4>isn't provoked, doesn't think evil, does not rejoice in iniquity,

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<v Speaker 4>rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things,

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<v Speaker 4>hopes all things, and there's all things, never feels. If

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<v Speaker 4>there's prophecies, they will be fulfilled. Is what it means

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<v Speaker 4>by fail. If there are tongues, they will cease languages,

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<v Speaker 4>knowing languages and not going to matter. They ask Caton,

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<v Speaker 4>having knowledge not going to matter, And they ask Caton.

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<v Speaker 4>We know and prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes,

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<v Speaker 4>that which is in part will pass away. For now

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<v Speaker 4>we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face,

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<v Speaker 4>abide in faith, hope, and love. The greatest of these

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<v Speaker 4>is love. So notice that love is not divorced from

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<v Speaker 4>what's true. It rejoices in what's true. Love should be patient,

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<v Speaker 4>should be kind. But it is not the an affectation

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<v Speaker 4>or some front that you put up. You have to

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<v Speaker 4>actually genuinely be these things in your heart. And nobody

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<v Speaker 4>can actually be those things in their heart without divine grace.

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<v Speaker 4>So these are not purely human works that you can achieve.

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<v Speaker 4>You must achieve these through the grace of God. And

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<v Speaker 4>I must force myself to balance out joking around, debating,

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<v Speaker 4>and so forth, dealing with many, many unruly ridiculous persons.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm going to strive this year, in twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 4>to try to be balanced in all those ways. So

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<v Speaker 4>that's my challenge to me. Nobody told me I needed

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<v Speaker 4>to do this. Nobody said you better repent on your

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<v Speaker 4>live stream. I do not think that love excludes ribbing

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<v Speaker 4>people joking around, but I'm going to try to be

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<v Speaker 4>better at that. So that's my New Year's resolution. Also,

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<v Speaker 4>my other resolution was to not play any video games

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<v Speaker 4>for one year, except for maybe Mario Karba Jamie on

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<v Speaker 4>a feast day. That's about it. So I was trying

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<v Speaker 4>to think of pleasures to give up. I guess video

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<v Speaker 4>games are a kind of a pleasure. But I don't

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<v Speaker 4>even really play that many video games. But I didn't

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<v Speaker 4>want video games to get in the way. So this

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<v Speaker 4>is not like me telling you, oh, I'm so pious

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<v Speaker 4>because I am fasting publicly from video games and I

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<v Speaker 4>want you all to know how pious I am. No, No,

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<v Speaker 4>this is not This is just for U New Year's resolution.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's not even anything particularly religious. Now I'm not

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<v Speaker 4>gonna see. That's what I'm saying. I gotta balance out

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<v Speaker 4>love with roasting. How can you still roast people and

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<v Speaker 4>make jokes? Which I don't know if you guys saw

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<v Speaker 4>my Twitter profile, but I am yes officially working with

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<v Speaker 4>Sam Hide on his new TV show, his new twenty

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<v Speaker 4>twenty five of Us Sam Hide Show, and I might

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<v Speaker 4>have had a hand in some previous, already produced content.

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<v Speaker 4>So yeah, we gotta we gotta figure out how to

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<v Speaker 4>balance all this. We gotta walk the tightrope. We gotta

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<v Speaker 4>steer between and Cherubidus Skilla and scrill X and Kareem

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<v Speaker 4>abdulji Bar. We gotta steer between squill X and Kareem

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<v Speaker 4>of those of Bar, just like the Greek who was

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<v Speaker 4>it Odysseus or whoever did going on and travels. He

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<v Speaker 4>was traveling. We're gonna open it up. Enough of my yapping.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna have to have a little bit of meat

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<v Speaker 4>tonight because anytime we travel, we drive for ten freaking

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<v Speaker 4>hours to get back to Florida, messes up my stomach.

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<v Speaker 4>So welcome tonight. The topics are, you've got it, all

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<v Speaker 4>the ones that we always do that are listed. Glad

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<v Speaker 4>to see a lot of people saying I'm reading Saint

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<v Speaker 4>John Damascus's writings. That's great. I had a guy calling

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<v Speaker 4>the other night and said that he had read on

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<v Speaker 4>the Orthodox face. Glad to hear that. It's the first

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<v Speaker 4>systematic theology. It's a classic, really good bust down a

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<v Speaker 4>jubilee one dollar. How much do you like your watch?

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<v Speaker 4>Actually tired of this watch. But the thing is, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to buy a new watch because if I

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<v Speaker 4>was to buy a new Movado, which, by the way,

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<v Speaker 4>secret you can get those at the outlet. So you

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<v Speaker 4>get a designer watch, get at the outlet, dog and

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<v Speaker 4>you pay like way less. You didn't know that. But

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<v Speaker 4>any money that I would allocate to a new Movada watch,

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<v Speaker 4>I bought this one in twenty eighteen. I would rather

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<v Speaker 4>have in bitcoin, So it makes no sense to buy

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<v Speaker 4>a stupid watch. So do I like this watch? It's

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<v Speaker 4>pretty cool. I've had it for about six years. But

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<v Speaker 4>did you know a lot of people don't know this,

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<v Speaker 4>but people that buy like watches, there's not this watch.

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<v Speaker 4>This is just a silly watch, but it's just a

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<v Speaker 4>mid grade watch. Watches are actually ways to store value,

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<v Speaker 4>so not everybody that's buying a watch is buying it.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not talking about this. I'm not like if somebody

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<v Speaker 4>bought a Rolex, because they store value. So wealthy people

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<v Speaker 4>don't just buy things to be ostentatious for no reason.

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<v Speaker 4>Maybe some of them do, but sometimes people invest I'm

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<v Speaker 4>not talking about me. I'm talking somebody bought up rolex.

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<v Speaker 4>It's an investment, but that was before bitcoin. So everything

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<v Speaker 4>that you might try to do with a Rolex or

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<v Speaker 4>whatever as an investment is dumb because you should have

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<v Speaker 4>bought bitcoin instead of a stupid watch. So anyway, yes,

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<v Speaker 4>I like this watch, but it's already like old. So

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<v Speaker 4>welcome everybody, camp Cam Pomson. There's Orthodoxy condemned Freemasonry because

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<v Speaker 4>I know there's a patriarch who was one and that

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<v Speaker 4>bothers me. You're gonna find freemasons potentially in any church.

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<v Speaker 4>So if you're looking for us some perfect church that

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<v Speaker 4>doesn't have evil people in it, you're never gonna find one.

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<v Speaker 4>As a Catholic, I know that church condemns it. Yes,

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<v Speaker 4>there are many statements. If you go to orthodox info

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<v Speaker 4>dot com and type in freemasonry, you'll find many condemnations

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<v Speaker 4>of freemasonry by the Orthodox Church. Atheist de vehterant ten dollars.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you, jam My girlfriend and I are catechumens. We're

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<v Speaker 4>nine months. I hope you don't mean you're nine months

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<v Speaker 4>old because that'd be really word if for typing. We

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<v Speaker 4>come from a Baptist background. That's good here, dude, Can

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<v Speaker 4>you summarize the difference between pneumatology for those who don't

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<v Speaker 4>know that's the doctor of the Holy Spirit, between Protestant

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<v Speaker 4>and Orthodox. Well, simply put, Artisans for the most part

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<v Speaker 4>kind of just default to the Roman Catholic position. So

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<v Speaker 4>they're gonna just have I mean not because it's Roman Catholic,

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<v Speaker 4>but they just kind of default to the I guess

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<v Speaker 4>what you could say is the Augustinian position. So Calvin

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<v Speaker 4>and Luther, they were very Augustinian. They just defaulted to

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<v Speaker 4>that position. Most Anglicans have been very Augustinian, So the

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<v Speaker 4>ethos of the Protestant world has always been the Augustinian

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<v Speaker 4>view of the double eternal procession of the Phillyoquay. The

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<v Speaker 4>best book probably would be to read something like Edwards

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<v Speaker 4>Kashinsky's book Philly Oakuay History of the Doctrine. We did

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<v Speaker 4>a podcast on that that actually just posted to the

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<v Speaker 4>podcast feed a couple of days ago. We did a

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<v Speaker 4>two or three hour podcast on that, maybe five years ago.

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<v Speaker 4>So I would say that's a good one to get

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<v Speaker 4>an overview. If you want to read more of the

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<v Speaker 4>Orthodox position, the two best would be Saint Photius's Mystagogy

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<v Speaker 4>and Gregory Palamas's book Appedictic Treatise on the Holy Spirit.

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<v Speaker 4>If you were to read those three books, and of

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<v Speaker 4>course there are more things that you could and should

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<v Speaker 4>read on that topic. That's not the exhaustive list, but

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<v Speaker 4>if you were to read those you would have a

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<v Speaker 4>very good idea of the specifics of the departure day.

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<v Speaker 4>JI are one dollars. This is the fake me. I

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<v Speaker 4>was at a bookstore. I was buying books, books for Christmas,

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<v Speaker 4>and I saw tons of autobiographies people like Bush, Obama, Clinton,

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<v Speaker 4>Boris Johnson. Are all memoirs like good like David Rockefellers,

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<v Speaker 4>or are they all full of bs like a celebrity.

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<v Speaker 4>I would imagine most of those are bs waste of time,

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<v Speaker 4>celebrity things that they're all ghost written anway, they don't

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<v Speaker 4>write their own. They don't write those. You think Bill

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<v Speaker 4>Clintons is going to write to a six hundred page book,

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<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't waste my time. I mean, really, the only

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<v Speaker 4>the biographs I have that are relevant that I've cited

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<v Speaker 4>are John Roberts's biography of Cecil Rhads is good. I

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<v Speaker 4>would probably get if there's like good biographies of the Ralph,

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<v Speaker 4>the Ralph Child's, those would probably be worth it. Calidrin

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<v Speaker 4>Horowitz's Rockefeller's biography is very relevant. I admits everything in there,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's official biography. So but autobiographies, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't I can't imagine like the typical political people like

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<v Speaker 4>a Obama, Clinton and those sound terrible. But John C.

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<v Speaker 4>Lilly's autobiography is pretty revealing. He meets all kinds of

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<v Speaker 4>stuff in there, So I guess it just depends on

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<v Speaker 4>the person. But typically those like Obama Clinton, like the

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<v Speaker 4>president level, those are all going to be whitewashed propaganda.

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<v Speaker 4>Shout out to everybody in the chat. Well, I saw

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<v Speaker 4>Tristan here and then I saw FDA here and they

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<v Speaker 4>just left so kind of depressed. Now my friends just leave.

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<v Speaker 4>When I do a live stream, they leave me. I

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<v Speaker 4>guess I gotta just give up. They just leave. What

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<v Speaker 4>would you do if I just cried live on live

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<v Speaker 4>stream right now? Just what if I just started crying

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<v Speaker 4>NonStop for like an hour? What would y'all do? This

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<v Speaker 4>is the new me, though, this is the new loving me.

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<v Speaker 4>Way too mean, so mean, I'm not I'm still not

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<v Speaker 4>exactly sure what I did. What that was mean? I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know. Its fat jokes against it, borrow is

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<v Speaker 4>that What counts is that it's the only thing I

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<v Speaker 4>can think of. It comes up.

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<v Speaker 3>Mmm.

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<v Speaker 4>But I'm sure that I have done things wrong. For sure.

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<v Speaker 4>We could we all, so we could all be more loving.

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<v Speaker 4>I need to lean into love. I'm gonna be a

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<v Speaker 4>love slag, wen, That's all I'm trying to say. I'm

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<v Speaker 4>gonna lean into being loving. I just it just makes

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<v Speaker 4>me mad that everyone thinks that love, love and being

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<v Speaker 4>loving is just acting kind of gay, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's like it's just talking like this. And and

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<v Speaker 2>if you talk like this and you're solved and you're

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<v Speaker 2>non threatening, it also makes you really spiritual. I'm really

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<v Speaker 2>spiritual because I talk like this and I'm loving, and

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<v Speaker 2>I pray all the time.

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<v Speaker 4>But no, I'm not talking about I ain't talking about

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<v Speaker 4>crying on stream. I ain't talking about none of that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well essays on Theologian Philosophy on Kindle. No, sorry, mine

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<v Speaker 4>says for ten dollars. I didn't make that book. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't even know who made the book, and I couldn't

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<v Speaker 4>get it pulled down, so I just decided to sell it.

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<v Speaker 4>So I don't know anything about it. I've never made

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<v Speaker 4>a put a book on Kindle. I think I still

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<v Speaker 4>turn call it what is on Kindle, but I have

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<v Speaker 4>a publisher for that, so he does all that. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to think about it. Welcome, everybody, appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's time to open it up. Now here's the challenge,

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<v Speaker 4>because as soon as I say I'm gonna try to

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<v Speaker 4>be more loving, people think they're gonna confuse that with

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<v Speaker 4>being nice. I don't know if I'm gonna be nice.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know about that. So I don't think you're

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<v Speaker 4>gonna weasele your way in here and bully me around. No, son,

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<v Speaker 4>no sir, Because this is a challenge for me to

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<v Speaker 4>balance out my good natured ribbing with being loving. I'll

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<v Speaker 4>being nice. You're gonna get guaranteed love. You're not gonna

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<v Speaker 4>get any guaranteed nice. That's how That's how we roll

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<v Speaker 4>around here all right now, the way it works, as

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<v Speaker 4>you guys know, if it's been or new here, we

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<v Speaker 4>got only ninety seven, we had over two hundred. We

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<v Speaker 4>had like almost three hundred the other day. Is it

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<v Speaker 4>because it's a Monday night. I don't know what's going on,

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<v Speaker 4>but you request to speak. I'm talking about on Twitter,

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<v Speaker 4>on YouTube. We're doing good. We always get We're already

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<v Speaker 4>close to one thousand. We're on YouTube. Shout out what's up?

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<v Speaker 4>By changing my jokes? Hell, no, I just told you

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not. None of the good natured ribbing is going away,

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<v Speaker 4>None of the impressions are going away. I don't exactly

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<v Speaker 4>know what's going away, that's the thing. But I want

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<v Speaker 4>to be more loving, just without changing anything. Jokes on you,

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<v Speaker 4>y'all thought I was gonna turn into some dumb hippie

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<v Speaker 4>psych I'm gonna be meaner than ever in twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm just kidding. I'm gonna be more loving, but without

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<v Speaker 4>changing any of my existing ways. So that's the challenge,

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<v Speaker 4>That's what I'm saying, man, that's the challenge part. All right,

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<v Speaker 4>enough of this nonsense. People are getting frustrated with the

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<v Speaker 4>apping and the pontificating in the hot air, the bloviating

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<v Speaker 4>real Calie Prepper. Did Lord Valdimore get replaced? That's the

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<v Speaker 4>funniest conspiracy I've seen this last week. But I did

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<v Speaker 4>that Lord Baltimore changed like he's wearing a He's a

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<v Speaker 4>CIA clone? Yes, Alex is a CIA clone. Brother Fresh?

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<v Speaker 4>That sounds like a like a rat name from the Ages,

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<v Speaker 4>Brother Fresh, Dougie Fresh? What's that man.

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<v Speaker 3>As Brother Fresh? Here?

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<v Speaker 6>I didn't forget to unmute hey man, it's unrelated to

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<v Speaker 6>the topic, but I just wanted to ask, Like I

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<v Speaker 6>was watching Fish Dank and Sam mentioned.

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<v Speaker 3>That you guys are going to have like a podcast

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<v Speaker 3>or something. Is that true?

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<v Speaker 7>Like, are you going to have a separate podcast or

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<v Speaker 7>is that just like a gaslight?

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<v Speaker 4>Did you not look at my Twitter? Profile, it says

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<v Speaker 4>writer for the sam Hidro.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh damn, okay, that's cool, right, excited for that? Man,

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<v Speaker 3>I have a good one, all right.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you appreciate it. Yeah, Like I said, I might

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<v Speaker 4>have had had had a hand in the p O

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<v Speaker 4>T y the party. How did I have a hand

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<v Speaker 4>in the party? What's the party?

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<v Speaker 3>You say?

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<v Speaker 4>The party? No, the party? What's the party? Post of

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<v Speaker 4>the year. I'm talking about sam Hi's post of the year, son,

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<v Speaker 4>or might have had had a hand in that? How

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<v Speaker 4>is that? I will leave you to speculate and think

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<v Speaker 4>on that, son Jose. The way that the way it

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<v Speaker 4>works is your question to speak. You come up, you

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<v Speaker 4>unmute yourself. What's up?

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<v Speaker 3>Man?

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<v Speaker 8>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, Jay?

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<v Speaker 3>What's going on? Had a quick question for you?

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<v Speaker 9>Also, Merry Christmas Eve to all the Christians that celebrate.

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<v Speaker 4>On the seventh, the true Orthodox Christmas.

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<v Speaker 3>The true old calendar Christians now.

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<v Speaker 4>The only calendar Christmas.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so kind of to the chase.

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<v Speaker 9>So, I was reading through the Old Testament, and I'm

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<v Speaker 9>just getting through the New Testament. But in many parts

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<v Speaker 9>in the Old Testament, through the Theophanes, there's many mentions

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<v Speaker 9>of God and his hands doing this and his face

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<v Speaker 9>being turned.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that was in Isaiah or Daniel and seeing

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<v Speaker 3>the face.

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<v Speaker 9>Of the Lord in those kinds you're familiar with those, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 9>And in the so I'm reading through the Orthodox Study Bible,

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<v Speaker 9>and in the Orthodox Study Bible it says that these

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<v Speaker 9>are instances of the preincarnate person of the Son of God,

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<v Speaker 9>Jesus Christ. So I wanted to know, like it just

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<v Speaker 9>mentions in the Study Bible, that is to mystery. It's

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<v Speaker 9>a holy mystery. But how can this be the actual face?

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<v Speaker 9>Is it the face in a figurative sense, or is

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<v Speaker 9>it the actual face of the incarnate Jesus Christ just

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<v Speaker 9>in a pre incarnate form. So it would be the

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<v Speaker 9>actual person that came two thousand years ago, but in

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<v Speaker 9>a form that didn't come to the earth yet.

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<v Speaker 3>That makes sense.

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<v Speaker 4>It is the actual energetic manifestation of the second person

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<v Speaker 4>of the Godhead in time and space, known as the

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<v Speaker 4>Angel of the Lord, who is Jesus Christ.

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<v Speaker 9>Obviously it can't be a created face. But my question

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<v Speaker 9>is just this, when I see the word face, it's

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<v Speaker 9>not a created.

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<v Speaker 3>Face, so it can't be.

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<v Speaker 9>But is this the person of Jesus Christ that came

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<v Speaker 9>just in a pre incarnate form. So it is the

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<v Speaker 9>body in the walking Jesus Christ, but just in a

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<v Speaker 9>pre incarnate form.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there is some form of God that was able

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<v Speaker 4>to manifest, just like the cloud, just like the fire,

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<v Speaker 4>just like you know any of these other theophanies in

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<v Speaker 4>the Old Testament. In fact, in Leviticus nine, the theophany

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<v Speaker 4>of the cloud is called the glory of God. So yes,

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<v Speaker 4>they are all energetic theophanic manifestations in time and space,

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<v Speaker 4>and they really do show us the second person of

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<v Speaker 4>the God had so in Jesus himself, and the Gospel

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<v Speaker 4>of John says, I was the one talking to Moses

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<v Speaker 4>face to face on mal Zimmer.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is all to say that it must be Jesus.

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<v Speaker 9>Because, as he says in the New Testament, nobody has

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<v Speaker 9>feed nobody has seen the Father absolutely, so it has

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<v Speaker 9>to be him, and it can't be, for example.

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<v Speaker 3>The Spirit.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess right, well, Jesus says to the Pharisees in

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<v Speaker 4>John five, six, seven, eight nine, when they keep debating,

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<v Speaker 4>he says, no one sees the Father at any time,

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<v Speaker 4>But he argues that Moses saw God face to face,

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<v Speaker 4>and if no one sees the Father, Jesus saying Moses

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<v Speaker 4>saw me face to face. Is in that very chapter

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<v Speaker 4>he says, if you believe Moses, you would believe in me,

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<v Speaker 4>because he wrote about me and Paul and said. Grinthians

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<v Speaker 4>three says that when Moses went up on the mountain

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<v Speaker 4>and when he was transfigured, excuse me, when Moses was deified,

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<v Speaker 4>when he came down from the mountain, he was seeing

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<v Speaker 4>Christ face to face on Montsima. Adam is made in

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<v Speaker 4>the garden of Eden after the image of Jesus. Jesus say,

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<v Speaker 4>is the second person that God had, The age of

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<v Speaker 4>the Lord of the Logos, is the form of God.

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<v Speaker 4>He's called this all throughout the Old Testament. If you

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<v Speaker 4>watch my I did a three hour the off in

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<v Speaker 4>his video, and I did an older one that's another

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<v Speaker 4>three hours. He's called the glory of God, the face

415
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.799
<v Speaker 4>of God, the image of God, hands of God, all

416
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:52.119
<v Speaker 4>those things referred to the second person, the Son. Okay,

417
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 4>all right, thank you, And how is it possible you

418
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 4>write to also have mentioned that there's an element of

419
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.359
<v Speaker 4>mystery because and this is what really I think futes

420
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.559
<v Speaker 4>all of the Tomistic type positions on this. If you

421
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:08.799
<v Speaker 4>read Philippians too, it's famously known as the canosis passage.

422
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.440
<v Speaker 4>Canosis means the in dwelling or see me, the outpouring

423
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 4>or this self emptying, And what that means is that

424
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.960
<v Speaker 4>when the second person of the Godhead took on human nature,

425
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.920
<v Speaker 4>he will fully chose not to actualize or to do

426
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Speaker 4>all of his powers. So he willfully stepped into time

427
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.559
<v Speaker 4>and space and limited himself quote unquote to be in

428
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.279
<v Speaker 4>the form of a man and so forth. So that's

429
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.839
<v Speaker 4>a great mystery, yes, but Philippians too makes it very

430
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 4>clear that that's exactly what although being equal to the Father,

431
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.279
<v Speaker 4>he actually entered into this limited state. And that means

432
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.160
<v Speaker 4>that the Roman Catholic or the Tomistic type positions which

433
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 4>reduced God to pure act, what actually that would actually

434
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.200
<v Speaker 4>be impossible if God was identical to pure act.

435
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:58.480
<v Speaker 9>Right, I'm yet to get there, but do you have

436
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:03.359
<v Speaker 9>time for one more question. It's just on the Coptic

437
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:10.160
<v Speaker 9>interpretation of Christology. So I understand there's a there's a

438
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.640
<v Speaker 9>misunderstanding on their part. Well, I guess from the Eastern

439
00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:18.400
<v Speaker 9>Christian lens that they understand Christ to have both the

440
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.359
<v Speaker 9>divine and human nature, but they create I guess a

441
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 9>third category out of that and that becomes a new

442
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:30.680
<v Speaker 9>thing in Christ, whereas the Eastern Orthodox say that that

443
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.880
<v Speaker 9>the person of Jesus is both the divine nature and

444
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.400
<v Speaker 9>the human nature working as one, but they don't create

445
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.759
<v Speaker 9>a new category for that like the like the cops do.

446
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.599
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I didn't explain that correct, but.

447
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.680
<v Speaker 4>Well it's halfway correct. So you're right that we argue

448
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.680
<v Speaker 4>that their position leads to and is a tertium quid.

449
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 4>That's a new third thing, is what the phrase tertiam

450
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.519
<v Speaker 4>quid means. It means that it's not fully human, not

451
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:02.720
<v Speaker 4>fully divine. It's not the Orthodox position of a hypostatic

452
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.279
<v Speaker 4>union of the two that retains the properties. It's a

453
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 4>new third thing. And part of the reason that they

454
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.839
<v Speaker 4>have that confusion, I also think is a lack of

455
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.240
<v Speaker 4>clarity on the essence energy distinction. Because the way that

456
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.240
<v Speaker 4>the reunion is a real deification of the human nature

457
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:20.440
<v Speaker 4>is through the uncreated energies of the Sun deifying the

458
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:24.759
<v Speaker 4>human nature that he assumed. They typically are somewhat confused

459
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.160
<v Speaker 4>on the energy's doctrine, and so they think that if

460
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 4>we say there's a continued distinction between the natures after

461
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.839
<v Speaker 4>the union, that that's a separation and division, and there's

462
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:36.799
<v Speaker 4>not a real deification of Christ human nature when the

463
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:40.559
<v Speaker 4>six Ecumenical Council stresses how he was deified and goes

464
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:43.480
<v Speaker 4>into the doctrine of the energies. Saint John Damascus in

465
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.559
<v Speaker 4>Book three of the Only Orthodox Faith, chapter fifteen, talks

466
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:50.160
<v Speaker 4>about the essence sentergy, distinction and christology and how Christ

467
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:54.000
<v Speaker 4>transmitted to his human nature the uncreated energies that deify it.

468
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:59.680
<v Speaker 4>But strictly speaking, the hypostasis is not a product of

469
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:03.799
<v Speaker 4>the carnation. Hypostasis is the ground of the incarnation because

470
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.799
<v Speaker 4>it's the second hypostasis of the Godhead who took on

471
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:12.480
<v Speaker 4>human nature, and the hypostasis as product view is actually

472
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.920
<v Speaker 4>condemned at the Fifth Council. So there's a lot of

473
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 4>different things and nuances going on and what we're talking about,

474
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.119
<v Speaker 4>but ultimately you're correct that we believe that their position

475
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 4>is inconsistent. It leads to a tertiam quid. And we

476
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.599
<v Speaker 4>also believe that even though the natures are distinct after

477
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.839
<v Speaker 4>the union, there is a real deification of the human

478
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:31.599
<v Speaker 4>nature of Christ.

479
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.119
<v Speaker 3>Okay, cool, that's all I got. Thank you.

480
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.319
<v Speaker 4>We've been doing a series on this too. I don't

481
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:39.519
<v Speaker 4>know if you have you seen the series.

482
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:42.759
<v Speaker 3>What's the name of the series?

483
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.960
<v Speaker 4>Oriental Orthodoxy refuted, I.

484
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:47.680
<v Speaker 3>Must have seen it.

485
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:50.039
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, it's just one of those things where you know

486
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.720
<v Speaker 9>where I look it up online after, you know, taking

487
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.799
<v Speaker 9>a look at some of these clips, and it's just

488
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.440
<v Speaker 9>hard to get a conceptual understanding.

489
00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:59.400
<v Speaker 4>Maybe I'm just too a low IQ, but no, this

490
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:02.720
<v Speaker 4>is so we're doing a long term series. We've only

491
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.880
<v Speaker 4>done two of them and they're like three hours each,

492
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:10.279
<v Speaker 4>So I would say start with our series and watch

493
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.960
<v Speaker 4>the first two. We'll be doing the third one soon.

494
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.440
<v Speaker 4>The only reason we haven't is that Kai got married,

495
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:19.880
<v Speaker 4>so he's on his honeymoon. Good for him.

496
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:21.640
<v Speaker 3>But I'll kick it out when it comes out.

497
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.400
<v Speaker 4>Then, well, are part one and two are already out?

498
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:27.160
<v Speaker 4>So you go to my channel and type in Oriental

499
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:29.599
<v Speaker 4>Orthodoxy refuted, you'll see part one and part two. But

500
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 4>thank you great questions, Civic Crisis. What's up? And by

501
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:36.279
<v Speaker 4>the way, if you want books, you can request come

502
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:37.839
<v Speaker 4>back in. I'll tell you what books you want to get.

503
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.319
<v Speaker 4>But we also mentioned the books in the series.

504
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:44.839
<v Speaker 3>For me to go ahead.

505
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:45.599
<v Speaker 4>Sure, what's up?

506
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.920
<v Speaker 3>Mean? Hey, what's up? I got like a few things

507
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:49.519
<v Speaker 3>to bring up.

508
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 10>Okay, now, for one, like, I'll just say you are

509
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:58.119
<v Speaker 10>very knowledgeable, and we probably I'll just say for certain

510
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:02.240
<v Speaker 10>we agree on a lot of things, even a lot

511
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:05.039
<v Speaker 10>of things that I've learned from you over the you know,

512
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:08.320
<v Speaker 10>past year or two or three or whatever, And so

513
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:09.599
<v Speaker 10>I do appreciate.

514
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:10.480
<v Speaker 3>All these spaces you do and whatnot.

515
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.199
<v Speaker 10>But so with people who are less educated so much

516
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.079
<v Speaker 10>but still have like a strong faith and stuff, you know,

517
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:25.400
<v Speaker 10>and education to the basics and whatnot. But you wouldn't

518
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:30.079
<v Speaker 10>would you wouldn't necessarily say that like like those people

519
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:32.800
<v Speaker 10>are less like lesser?

520
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 3>Would you?

521
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:36.840
<v Speaker 4>Everyone is lesser than me? Is the easiest way I

522
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:37.360
<v Speaker 4>would put it.

523
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Fair.

524
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:41.599
<v Speaker 4>I'm just kidding, what do you mean lesser?

525
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.119
<v Speaker 10>No, just like their faith could still be accepted with

526
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:46.800
<v Speaker 10>the same grace, right.

527
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:52.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I don't know the parameters of people's individual status.

528
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.320
<v Speaker 4>I don't, and we don't really judge that typically speaking. Yeah,

529
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.360
<v Speaker 4>but I think what we do is we U go

530
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:05.360
<v Speaker 4>buy people's public profession and we tell people if we

531
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:09.719
<v Speaker 4>think that's wrong, that's that's wrong. So but I can't

532
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.400
<v Speaker 4>hider and say you're going to hell, buddy, Like I

533
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:12.719
<v Speaker 4>don't I.

534
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.440
<v Speaker 10>Know that, No, problem anyway, we'll move past that anyway.

535
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.920
<v Speaker 10>So I am Protestant anyway, and you know, I like

536
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.400
<v Speaker 10>to join more of.

537
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.239
<v Speaker 3>Your spaces in the future. I think we've talked in

538
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 3>the past a.

539
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:30.239
<v Speaker 10>Little bit, but so so again I'll reiterate that we

540
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.079
<v Speaker 10>agree on a lot of things, right, I think you would.

541
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.480
<v Speaker 10>You'd probably agree on that too, like such as like

542
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.599
<v Speaker 10>many things I could name that we would agree on.

543
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:39.800
<v Speaker 3>Like I just said, I agree.

544
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 10>With most of the things that you say as well,

545
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:45.639
<v Speaker 10>so we can like acknowledge that, yeah, it's just.

546
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:47.760
<v Speaker 3>Or you would accept a prize in saying that.

547
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:53.000
<v Speaker 4>Well, yeah, But agreeing is not the criteria. Like the

548
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:57.320
<v Speaker 4>the way Orthodox Christianity works is it's holistic. So for example,

549
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.559
<v Speaker 4>I can't be like, I'm seventy five percent Worthox, but

550
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.760
<v Speaker 4>like thirty you know, twenty five percent of their doctions

551
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.800
<v Speaker 4>that they teach I reject. It doesn't work like that.

552
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.159
<v Speaker 4>It's a holistic package. So you can't be consistently like

553
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:13.679
<v Speaker 4>I'm thirty percent Orthodox, but I'm seventy percent Protestant. There's

554
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.519
<v Speaker 4>no graded scale. It's it's a packaged deal.

555
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:19.320
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, of course, yeah, I get your points there, But

556
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:22.079
<v Speaker 10>generally we agree in the Trinity, we agree in like

557
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:23.159
<v Speaker 10>several different things.

558
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:24.800
<v Speaker 4>Well I don't think we do. So no, we don't

559
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:27.320
<v Speaker 4>even agree on the Trinity. So I mean I think

560
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:29.679
<v Speaker 4>that you intend, as a Protestant as most like a

561
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:33.480
<v Speaker 4>Roman Catholic to profess and believe in the Trinity. But

562
00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:38.880
<v Speaker 4>Protestants do not actually believe in the Orthodox doction the Trinity.

563
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:41.440
<v Speaker 10>See, that would be something I'd like to dive into more.

564
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:46.559
<v Speaker 10>But first let's just uh, you know, accept that response

565
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:48.400
<v Speaker 10>you gave and whatnot, and how we'll just stand on that.

566
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:53.599
<v Speaker 10>So yeah, and that's you know, giving respect to that

567
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.400
<v Speaker 10>we do have things, even though you may think they're different,

568
00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:02.920
<v Speaker 10>I think generally or similar. So one thing I wanted

569
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 10>to bring up actually, and this is kind of why

570
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:09.760
<v Speaker 10>I rose the hand here. I wanted to just kind

571
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.000
<v Speaker 10>of find out what you what your perspective is on

572
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:19.920
<v Speaker 10>how and also let me first state for clarification, like Protestant.

573
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:24.480
<v Speaker 3>Is very wide ranging kind of demographic.

574
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:29.880
<v Speaker 10>Me I'm more of like a Nordic type ancestry, just

575
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:34.519
<v Speaker 10>so you understand, but anyway, it and I am American

576
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.719
<v Speaker 10>right for over one hundred plus years.

577
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.559
<v Speaker 3>Of this type of years.

578
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:43.840
<v Speaker 10>Well, my ancestry dates back to that type of Nordic

579
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.880
<v Speaker 10>Christianity and they immigrated here.

580
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:47.000
<v Speaker 3>One hundred plus years ago.

581
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:48.800
<v Speaker 4>Is what do you mean.

582
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:53.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lutheran. So you know, I'm and I'm

583
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:55.679
<v Speaker 3>also willing to accept the faults in that.

584
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:03.079
<v Speaker 10>But anyway, it does appear with modern data that you know,

585
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:08.480
<v Speaker 10>not only Catholics and Orthodox. And just to also clarify,

586
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:11.519
<v Speaker 10>and you mentioned this too, like Oriental Orthodox Eastern Orthodox.

587
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.519
<v Speaker 10>There's a difference there, and you've been kind of posting

588
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:13.840
<v Speaker 10>about that.

589
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:16.320
<v Speaker 3>Is that correct? That's great?

590
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.320
<v Speaker 10>Actually kind of interested in hearing more about that later.

591
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:23.559
<v Speaker 10>But so it does appear with this data I've been reviewing.

592
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:26.599
<v Speaker 10>This isn't a gotcha or anything. Just want to get

593
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:35.960
<v Speaker 10>your honest feedback. These kind of demographics of faith Jewish, Catholic, Orthodox,

594
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.400
<v Speaker 10>Black Protestant, they tend to be, you know, at least

595
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:45.320
<v Speaker 10>fifty to one hundred plus percent more gay accepting than

596
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.639
<v Speaker 10>like white Evangelical Christians.

597
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.039
<v Speaker 3>Kind of what's your view on that.

598
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:55.679
<v Speaker 4>I don't think the Orthodox Church is accepting them gay

599
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 4>at all. In fact, I mean you noticed the Orthodox

600
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.679
<v Speaker 4>countries are famously not gay. That's why they targeted by

601
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:01.960
<v Speaker 4>NATO in the State Department.

602
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:04.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you'd be correct in that, but I mean in

603
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:05.360
<v Speaker 3>the US.

604
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:10.320
<v Speaker 4>No, I think that the Roman Catholic Church has notoriously,

605
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:15.960
<v Speaker 4>according to some accounts, seventy gay Norvusordier priests. Most of

606
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.960
<v Speaker 4>the Protestant churches are pro gay, so that's all well known.

607
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.840
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely Again, I think you're correct about that.

608
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:27.239
<v Speaker 10>But the specifically the white even those are kind of

609
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.840
<v Speaker 10>non Evangelical Protestants. But if you look at the Evangelical Protestants,

610
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 10>it's different. It's you know, way less accepting of that

611
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.159
<v Speaker 10>gay marriagerect So what's the point, Well, it's just it

612
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:41.920
<v Speaker 10>does you know, looking specifically at the data, I'd be

613
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:43.679
<v Speaker 10>have to share it in the in the Purple Pale

614
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.519
<v Speaker 10>down there, but you know, it does say that Orthodox

615
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:50.679
<v Speaker 10>are fifty percent more accepting of gay than these white events.

616
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.519
<v Speaker 4>I would have to do well comparing that with like

617
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.159
<v Speaker 4>Eastern European countries, uh in Russia, that would have to

618
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:02.280
<v Speaker 4>do with the Americanists and fluence rather than the Orthodox position.

619
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.400
<v Speaker 10>You know, that'd be fair, but then the same influence

620
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.880
<v Speaker 10>would it would also be you know, onto the white

621
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:12.960
<v Speaker 10>Evangelical presence, but they tended to resist that or whatnot.

622
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:17.719
<v Speaker 4>That's funny because the Evangelicals were the Protestants one hundred

623
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:21.400
<v Speaker 4>years ago, which eventually cucked to that stuff within time.

624
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:25.840
<v Speaker 4>And I think that if you look at the looking

625
00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:29.880
<v Speaker 4>at your data here, if you look at the tendency

626
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:34.760
<v Speaker 4>of Protestant well, excuse evangelical seminaries, they cook over time too.

627
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:40.280
<v Speaker 4>In fact, Southern Babasiological Seminary just started pushing critical race

628
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:43.159
<v Speaker 4>theory and hired three or four different CRT professors. So

629
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:46.119
<v Speaker 4>I don't understand what this is supposed to prove. You

630
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:50.039
<v Speaker 4>think you're going to prove some theological position by tallying

631
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:52.519
<v Speaker 4>up how much gaye and how much percentage of gay?

632
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.760
<v Speaker 10>There is no The data exists without me analyzing it.

633
00:40:57.760 --> 00:40:59.840
<v Speaker 4>It's just that what is it supposed to know? That's

634
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.920
<v Speaker 4>not true because you're bringing the data for a reason.

635
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:03.320
<v Speaker 4>So what's the purpose of the data?

636
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.079
<v Speaker 3>Well, it does exist without me analyzing it.

637
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 4>That is true, maybe not in your point of bringing

638
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:10.599
<v Speaker 4>it is what.

639
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:12.719
<v Speaker 3>You know?

640
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.679
<v Speaker 10>Just that this is the what appears to be the

641
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:17.920
<v Speaker 10>objective reality, which.

642
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.280
<v Speaker 3>Is that you know?

643
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:22.960
<v Speaker 10>This is the question I get when I ask this

644
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:24.639
<v Speaker 10>is what what's my point?

645
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:27.719
<v Speaker 3>But I think that that misses the point of the data.

646
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:29.920
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so you come from a whole you come from

647
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:36.320
<v Speaker 4>a Lutheran background. What's the Lutheran position on all that stuff?

648
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Reject gay marriage?

649
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:45.320
<v Speaker 4>No, that's absolutely not true. I'm not talking about Missouri sid,

650
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm talking about the mainline Lutherans, you.

651
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.079
<v Speaker 10>Know, And that would get to a specific specificity of

652
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.639
<v Speaker 10>like what my denomination is. I will tell you my

653
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:58.199
<v Speaker 10>denomination rejects gay marriage.

654
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.559
<v Speaker 4>So well, you started by saying that you're a hundred

655
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:06.400
<v Speaker 4>year proud you know, lu Nordic immigrant, and the mainline

656
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.559
<v Speaker 4>Lutheran Church caved decades ago to the things that you're

657
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:10.320
<v Speaker 4>trying to champion.

658
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:13.519
<v Speaker 10>Here the main line one did I'm not exactly I

659
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:16.119
<v Speaker 10>don't follow that one. And I did acknowledge the faults

660
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:19.880
<v Speaker 10>that there are faults and willing to totally acknowledge.

661
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.239
<v Speaker 4>And so by that, by that argument, you should become

662
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:27.679
<v Speaker 4>some sort of like independent fundamentalist Baptist. If that's the

663
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.400
<v Speaker 4>one that I'm not a Baptist, I said, if this

664
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:32.480
<v Speaker 4>is what shows us the true Church, then you should

665
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 4>be a Baptist because whatever. So we're going to go

666
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.199
<v Speaker 4>about what the largest number of people in a denomination

667
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.119
<v Speaker 4>that rejects the gay marriages of the true Church No, it's.

668
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:46.360
<v Speaker 10>Just that you can see the followers of the churches

669
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:49.320
<v Speaker 10>and see what they believe in, and you can see

670
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:50.840
<v Speaker 10>that there are some serious issues.

671
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.239
<v Speaker 4>So we only judge it by and so we judge

672
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:56.159
<v Speaker 4>it by America's numbers. Is that right?

673
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, we are in America, and we're in America.

674
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 4>What does any of us have to deal with what's

675
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:02.960
<v Speaker 4>true or false?

676
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.159
<v Speaker 10>Well, we believe this is another thing back to what

677
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:11.840
<v Speaker 10>we also agree on. We believe that gay marriage is wrong, correct,

678
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.719
<v Speaker 10>and that's that's a truth. Now we can look at

679
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:17.960
<v Speaker 10>some of the peers that we have within these designated

680
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.199
<v Speaker 10>demographics of faith and we can see some serious issues there.

681
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.280
<v Speaker 10>So that's kind of what I'm kind of raising attention

682
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:25.840
<v Speaker 10>to and maybe get your feedback on that.

683
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I just don't think that the numbers of various

684
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:32.800
<v Speaker 4>percentages and denominations in America approves or disproves anything.

685
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.119
<v Speaker 10>Well, I'm not trying to disprove, like you know, on

686
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:41.119
<v Speaker 10>a macro level of an entire religious belief, but just

687
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:41.960
<v Speaker 10>looking you.

688
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:43.480
<v Speaker 4>Know more, is it. Let me ask you a question,

689
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:49.239
<v Speaker 4>is it possible for a cult Islam to be anti homosexual?

690
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.039
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think anything is possible with God's.

691
00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:58.639
<v Speaker 4>Okay, are Muslims anti on the on paper?

692
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:07.320
<v Speaker 10>That's pretty uh, you know, that's generally I would say no.

693
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:09.199
<v Speaker 4>No, Sunni Islam is officially anti homosexual and anti gay marriage.

694
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:10.239
<v Speaker 4>So what are you talking.

695
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.320
<v Speaker 10>About, Well, you're generally yeah, yeah, you may be correct

696
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:17.360
<v Speaker 10>in that, but are that would.

697
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.639
<v Speaker 3>Be you know, wrong right now.

698
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:21.039
<v Speaker 4>I didn't say they all are. I'm talking about numbers

699
00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:27.000
<v Speaker 4>and percentages of the professing Sunni majorities of Islam on

700
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:29.840
<v Speaker 4>paper or anti gay marriage. So what does it have

701
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:31.599
<v Speaker 4>to do with what's true or false?

702
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, that would be one thing that they have correct then.

703
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.840
<v Speaker 4>For those that believe that, right, and so all of

704
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:40.960
<v Speaker 4>what you've argued gets you nowhere.

705
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.159
<v Speaker 3>All right, that's fair.

706
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:45.800
<v Speaker 10>But my point is that I'm not trying to, you know,

707
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:47.039
<v Speaker 10>make this macro argument.

708
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:50.360
<v Speaker 4>I'm trying to make what's your point micro what's a

709
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:53.239
<v Speaker 4>micro argument about the point of the debate today is

710
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:55.639
<v Speaker 4>what's true and false? So your micro argument is kind

711
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:57.440
<v Speaker 4>of irrelevant.

712
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:00.320
<v Speaker 10>Okay, well, thanks for having me up anyway, but just

713
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 10>you know, conclude with like, my point of bringing this

714
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:06.280
<v Speaker 10>up is I just wanted to hear your feedback on

715
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.320
<v Speaker 10>for example, you know, more specifically, with what you are

716
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:14.119
<v Speaker 10>you know your peers? It's it does say here fifty

717
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:17.760
<v Speaker 10>four percent of Orthodox Christians believe in same sex marriage,

718
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.800
<v Speaker 10>So that would be an issue for you, I would think.

719
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:25.159
<v Speaker 4>And so by that logic is long. By that logic

720
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:29.400
<v Speaker 4>is lom. It's true because Islam on paper has almost

721
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:31.639
<v Speaker 4>a billion people or more than a billion, who are

722
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:35.440
<v Speaker 4>professing to be anti gay marriage. So there you go.

723
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.800
<v Speaker 4>Good job, that's a fallacy. So good job with your fallacy.

724
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:43.199
<v Speaker 4>Any other arguments, Yeah.

725
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:45.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't see how that's a fallacy, just.

726
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:48.679
<v Speaker 4>Pointing out as data, but because the data doesn't prove anything,

727
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:51.280
<v Speaker 4>and there might be tons of factors as to why

728
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:53.960
<v Speaker 4>that's the case. And I use the Muslim example to

729
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:59.639
<v Speaker 4>show that your argument doesn't prove anything. Okay, so why

730
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:03.039
<v Speaker 4>should so hold on? So why should we believe Lutheranism?

731
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:06.360
<v Speaker 4>Because what I notice is it looks like you're going

732
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:10.519
<v Speaker 4>through data to try to find some weird other way

733
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:14.159
<v Speaker 4>to say that perhaps Orthodox Christianity is not true and

734
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:18.480
<v Speaker 4>your flavor of Lutheranism and white Evangelicalism is when that

735
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:23.920
<v Speaker 4>doesn't make any sense if the mainline Lutherans all capitulated.

736
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:28.239
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, fair point, And I totally understand what you're saying,

737
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:32.039
<v Speaker 10>but I don't have that view that I'm trying to

738
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 10>disprove all these other.

739
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.000
<v Speaker 4>Things because so you brought an argument that doesn't prove

740
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:37.079
<v Speaker 4>anything to a debate.

741
00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, fair, I mean I did join just now last second,

742
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:42.840
<v Speaker 10>so I do apologize for that if it's a.

743
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:45.960
<v Speaker 4>Little off, tokay. So do you have any other arguments

744
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.400
<v Speaker 4>as to why Orthodox Christianity is not true in your position?

745
00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:50.400
<v Speaker 3>Is? Well?

746
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:52.719
<v Speaker 10>Like I said, I actually am interested in our hearing

747
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.280
<v Speaker 10>more about that. And you know, I've learned a lot

748
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.719
<v Speaker 10>from you about different things, and so a lot of

749
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:58.760
<v Speaker 10>things I think we would agree on.

750
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.320
<v Speaker 3>Actually, let's go back to the first thing.

751
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:02.199
<v Speaker 10>If you don't mind real quick about how why you

752
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:05.159
<v Speaker 10>believe that our view of the Trinity is different than

753
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:06.719
<v Speaker 10>each other here?

754
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.000
<v Speaker 4>Well, simply put, the Orthodox Church has for over a

755
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:14.920
<v Speaker 4>thousand years explicitly rejected the Phillyoquay, and every major Protestant group,

756
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:20.039
<v Speaker 4>whether Protestant, whether Lutheran or Anglican, or Calvin, believes the Philly.

757
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:24.639
<v Speaker 10>Oquay, so specifically the phillyoaquay.

758
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:28.039
<v Speaker 3>And I mean, if you don't mind, I would actually

759
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:28.559
<v Speaker 3>ask you, do.

760
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:33.400
<v Speaker 4>You know kind of Luther and Calvin and all of

761
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:37.239
<v Speaker 4>the Classical Reformation tradition, affirms the Augustinian.

762
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:39.840
<v Speaker 7>I want to show off something that we're all proud of.

763
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:45.239
<v Speaker 7>I've got a browser here. This is Jay Dyers, much vaunted,

764
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.599
<v Speaker 7>much sought after philosophy one oh one. Now he just

765
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:51.880
<v Speaker 7>got this page up. We are just testing it out.

766
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:53.079
<v Speaker 7>You guys are some of the first people in the

767
00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:55.800
<v Speaker 7>world to see it. I want to say, for my part,

768
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:58.159
<v Speaker 7>it's not philosophy want oh one. I think this is

769
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:02.599
<v Speaker 7>a miss mistitling. I really think is as like philosophy unleashed,

770
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 7>because a philosophy want on one course, they give you

771
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.079
<v Speaker 7>kind of some useless information that you can't make sense of.

772
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:12.360
<v Speaker 7>Jay actually lays out, over twelve weeks, dozens and dozens

773
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:15.440
<v Speaker 7>of hours put into just the presentation of this, let alone,

774
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.719
<v Speaker 7>the hundreds and thousands of hours of research that it

775
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.440
<v Speaker 7>takes to have a coherent evolution and history of the

776
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.559
<v Speaker 7>origins of philosophy, the uses of philosophy, the different ways

777
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:27.440
<v Speaker 7>to look at it over time, and how that has

778
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.679
<v Speaker 7>been brought about to what we have today, which is

779
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:35.039
<v Speaker 7>almost an absence of philosophy on the objective, logic and

780
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:39.159
<v Speaker 7>reason side, in an overabundance of woke philosophy that is

781
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:41.559
<v Speaker 7>irrational and is made up day by day as people

782
00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:44.039
<v Speaker 7>are like I think we should bring racism back, and

783
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:46.880
<v Speaker 7>then here's a justification, and then it gets wokeified and

784
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.960
<v Speaker 7>spread out, and then all of a sudden you have

785
00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.159
<v Speaker 7>a bunch of communist socialist ideas where you become the

786
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:54.639
<v Speaker 7>property in action. You need to be able to stand

787
00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:57.760
<v Speaker 7>on your own ground. It helps to have a foundation

788
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 7>in philosophy because it's a method defined when you get

789
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.719
<v Speaker 7>down to it. Philosophy is there because you love truth

790
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:05.920
<v Speaker 7>enough to go and learn how to find it, because

791
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:09.480
<v Speaker 7>it's valuable. So if you're interested in things like that.

792
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:12.079
<v Speaker 7>There is the landing page. We'll link it up in

793
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:14.719
<v Speaker 7>the notes. It is a longer once, so we'll get

794
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.239
<v Speaker 7>a shorter URL for this. I'm sure Jay has a

795
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.280
<v Speaker 7>link on his page. I just wanted to show it off.

796
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:20.920
<v Speaker 7>Now you know what exists, you can go look for

797
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.840
<v Speaker 7>it and see why this is not your father's philosophy. Right,

798
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.599
<v Speaker 7>So well done. I'm proud of everyone who helped to

799
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:31.320
<v Speaker 7>produce and edit the course, and of course Jay did

800
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:35.320
<v Speaker 7>a flawless job in presenting the course over those twelve weeks,

801
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:38.760
<v Speaker 7>and he's a juggernaut. He's another guy just like John Bush,

802
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.079
<v Speaker 7>in action all the time, doing something productive, like very

803
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:44.920
<v Speaker 7>little wasted time in his week, those one hundred and

804
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.440
<v Speaker 7>sixty eight hours of being harnessed very well.

805
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:52.239
<v Speaker 4>Eternal double hypostatic procession of the Holy Spirit. The Orthodox

806
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.440
<v Speaker 4>Church famously for a thousand plus years, rejects that there

807
00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:59.039
<v Speaker 4>is a double eternal hypsit procession. The Father is the

808
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:02.840
<v Speaker 4>sole cause in the trinity, and you cannot give causation

809
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:05.800
<v Speaker 4>to the Son because it's a unique hypostatic property that

810
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:06.679
<v Speaker 4>picks out the Father.

811
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.079
<v Speaker 3>And why would you think that I disagreed with that?

812
00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:13.480
<v Speaker 4>Did you not hear what I said?

813
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:14.679
<v Speaker 3>Well?

814
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:15.000
<v Speaker 4>I did.

815
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.559
<v Speaker 10>It just tended to not be in plain enough English

816
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:19.800
<v Speaker 10>for me to accept it on.

817
00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:24.199
<v Speaker 4>First because all a Protestant professing Christians believe in the

818
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.239
<v Speaker 4>Augustinian doctrine of the phillyoq waight ninety nine point nine percent,

819
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:29.400
<v Speaker 4>and it's the Lutheran tradition to agree with that.

820
00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:34.559
<v Speaker 10>All right, Is there anything that you would suggest that

821
00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:37.760
<v Speaker 10>I review to better understand what you're The point you're

822
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:39.320
<v Speaker 10>making is because I'm just not getting it.

823
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:42.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we did a talk. You can find the podcast

824
00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:45.000
<v Speaker 4>on my channel. It's called a Philly Oku Way history

825
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.960
<v Speaker 4>of a doctrinal controversy. That's a good place to start.

826
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:52.480
<v Speaker 4>And it's me Father deacin Annius and our buddy Lewis.

827
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:55.199
<v Speaker 4>So I appreciate your comments.

828
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:57.440
<v Speaker 3>If you don't mind, just what is the root of it?

829
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.519
<v Speaker 4>You know, what is the root of the Phillyoaks doctrine?

830
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:02.159
<v Speaker 3>The difference.

831
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:08.199
<v Speaker 4>Well, we would argue that Philioque messes up the trinity.

832
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:11.039
<v Speaker 4>It creates an imbalance because you get a diad where

833
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:14.920
<v Speaker 4>you have this principle of this power that two persons share,

834
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:19.559
<v Speaker 4>which is the property that picks out the father. The

835
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:24.079
<v Speaker 4>father can't give his unique personal property to the son,

836
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:27.760
<v Speaker 4>namely to be cause. So that's a diad. You would

837
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:30.480
<v Speaker 4>have a subordination of the Holy Spirit because the Holy

838
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:33.320
<v Speaker 4>Spirit doesn't have the power to cause a person.

839
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:38.239
<v Speaker 10>Oh well, I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is subordinate.

840
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:41.320
<v Speaker 4>If he doesn't have the power to cause a person,

841
00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:43.679
<v Speaker 4>then it's a power that he lacks that the father

842
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:47.440
<v Speaker 4>and the son share, so you subordinate him.

843
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Hum. Yeah, that's interesting, And again I think that gets.

844
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:55.280
<v Speaker 10>Into what a lot of people don't actually hear when

845
00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:58.239
<v Speaker 10>they're growing up in Christianity. They like this is something

846
00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.320
<v Speaker 10>that is more of a compla type of thing.

847
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.920
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's not just the Philly okay. I mean there's

848
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:06.159
<v Speaker 4>a whole bunch of other things that Orthodox believe that

849
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:11.559
<v Speaker 4>obviously Protestants don't. So I mean, there's the doctrine deification,

850
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:15.440
<v Speaker 4>there's the doctrine of you know, the reality necessity of

851
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:19.480
<v Speaker 4>the sacraments, which Lutherans do believe professing to they at

852
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:22.239
<v Speaker 4>least profess to believe the necessity the sacraments, but we

853
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:24.960
<v Speaker 4>don't believe in a justification by faith alone, which Lutherans

854
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.800
<v Speaker 4>believe in. Luther was pretty strict on the doctrine predestination.

855
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:33.199
<v Speaker 4>I don't know what your specific Lutheran group believes on predestination.

856
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:38.039
<v Speaker 4>The Orthodox Church does not believe the Augustinian position of predestination.

857
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:41.239
<v Speaker 4>So there's plenty of things that could be listed. The

858
00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:44.559
<v Speaker 4>distinct We believe in the necessity of tradition, so we

859
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:46.800
<v Speaker 4>don't believe in solar scripture. I mean, there's all kinds

860
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:47.159
<v Speaker 4>of things.

861
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.639
<v Speaker 3>M Okay, yep, that's great.

862
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:53.480
<v Speaker 10>So two things in response, If you want to move on,

863
00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:56.039
<v Speaker 10>that's cool. We'll just get these two things in response

864
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.119
<v Speaker 10>real quick. But I feel like this is a conversation

865
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:01.280
<v Speaker 10>that you know, obviously there's more research than you've done

866
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:04.920
<v Speaker 10>my part to understand fully what these differences are.

867
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:07.800
<v Speaker 3>I understand some what you're saying. But so the two

868
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:12.239
<v Speaker 3>things i'd say is, like, you know, the thing is.

869
00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:15.480
<v Speaker 10>In my faith, I would be willing to accept that

870
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:19.039
<v Speaker 10>your faith is accurate, you know, as well as my own.

871
00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:21.920
<v Speaker 3>Right, that's like a difference there, I think that we have.

872
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:23.760
<v Speaker 4>That's another fallacy.

873
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:28.079
<v Speaker 10>So that's okay, you know, if you say that, that's

874
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:33.599
<v Speaker 10>fine with me. So the second thing is just totally separate.

875
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:36.559
<v Speaker 4>I mean, Luther says, if you teach works, you had

876
00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:39.159
<v Speaker 4>to teach a different gospel, and he believed understand that.

877
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:43.320
<v Speaker 4>So I mean you don't believe that.

878
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:48.920
<v Speaker 10>They're both important, right, go ahead, Yeah, I mean faith

879
00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:49.960
<v Speaker 10>and works are both important.

880
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:50.239
<v Speaker 3>Right.

881
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:56.440
<v Speaker 4>Again, that's not the point Luther. Maybe you don't believe

882
00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.119
<v Speaker 4>what Luther's taught on this, I don't know, But I

883
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:01.599
<v Speaker 4>mean if for him it was a question of a

884
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:04.920
<v Speaker 4>different gospel. So Paul says, you teach different gospel, you're cursed.

885
00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:07.360
<v Speaker 4>So you can talk like an ecumenist and make it

886
00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:10.159
<v Speaker 4>sound like your positions better because you accept me, but

887
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:12.599
<v Speaker 4>my positions worse because I don't accept you. But that's

888
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.119
<v Speaker 4>a fallacy, has nothing to do with which positions were false.

889
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:18.559
<v Speaker 10>That's, you know, a good point, but it's not what

890
00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:20.679
<v Speaker 10>I was saying. Actually, I don't believe one is lesser

891
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:21.440
<v Speaker 10>or whatnot.

892
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:27.280
<v Speaker 4>So but yeah, that's inconsistent because the traditional Lutheran Reformation

893
00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:30.559
<v Speaker 4>position is that my position is a false gospel. So

894
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:31.519
<v Speaker 4>which one is it?

895
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:34.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then there's that argument that.

896
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.960
<v Speaker 10>You know, in the context of the times, things can

897
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:42.400
<v Speaker 10>be said that are but that's not really my point.

898
00:54:42.440 --> 00:54:44.599
<v Speaker 3>Okay, but you would understand that too, at the context

899
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:45.480
<v Speaker 3>of the times or whatever.

900
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:46.199
<v Speaker 4>Okay, go ahead.

901
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:50.400
<v Speaker 10>So anyway, I think we had a good discussion on

902
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:51.960
<v Speaker 10>that for now. But let me just ask you a

903
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:59.840
<v Speaker 10>totally separate questions. Do you partake in drinking?

904
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:00.320
<v Speaker 3>Now? Call?

905
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:01.360
<v Speaker 4>I do not.

906
00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:02.920
<v Speaker 8>That.

907
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:04.119
<v Speaker 4>What does that have to do with anything?

908
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:08.400
<v Speaker 10>Just a personal curiosity, I guess anyway. But hey, Jay,

909
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:10.119
<v Speaker 10>you know, it's been great talking to you. Happy New

910
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:12.239
<v Speaker 10>Year to you, man, and I appreciate it always hearing

911
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:13.880
<v Speaker 10>your spaces and being able to contribute.

912
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:16.679
<v Speaker 3>I think one thing we can acknowledge.

913
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:19.039
<v Speaker 10>Is in this data, I did share the number one

914
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:21.800
<v Speaker 10>uh faction of acceptance to.

915
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:24.119
<v Speaker 4>All of this.

916
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.320
<v Speaker 3>You know Satanism are the Satanists one?

917
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:30.239
<v Speaker 10>So I mean, if you maybe closing thoughts on that,

918
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:37.119
<v Speaker 10>we have these atheists, pagan Satanists and like LGBT movement

919
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:40.719
<v Speaker 10>groups that are like becoming a massive religious base.

920
00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:46.280
<v Speaker 4>So what what what? What's the point of the alcohol course?

921
00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:49.039
<v Speaker 4>I don't understand. Where? Why what's the relevance of that?

922
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

923
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:55.599
<v Speaker 4>Hold on it? The wrong button?

924
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:55.760
<v Speaker 11>Here?

925
00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:59.679
<v Speaker 4>My computers I can wear Are you there?

926
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:02.519
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I wouldn't have judged you either way you answered,

927
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:04.559
<v Speaker 10>I was just generally curious.

928
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.800
<v Speaker 4>But why nobody's I don't care. It's just I've never

929
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:10.559
<v Speaker 4>been asked that on his face. I'm just curious.

930
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:14.320
<v Speaker 3>Why. Oh, perhaps on that one, you know, that unique

931
00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:17.480
<v Speaker 3>question there, but totally irrelevant. Man, don't worry about it.

932
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:18.719
<v Speaker 4>Thanks, man, appreciate it.

933
00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:30.280
<v Speaker 8>Rachel, Hey, sorry if I sound bad, I'm kind of sick.

934
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:32.800
<v Speaker 8>But I just wanted to quickly jump in and say

935
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.440
<v Speaker 8>that mister fed guy there who was bringing up the

936
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:39.320
<v Speaker 8>gay stats made a very simplayer in reading those statistics,

937
00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:42.400
<v Speaker 8>which you kind of guessed and sussed out, which.

938
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Is that when you look at the data he was

939
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:46.559
<v Speaker 3>referring to. I googled it found it right away.

940
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:51.079
<v Speaker 8>It even the data itself in the report says it's

941
00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:55.559
<v Speaker 8>basically just a reflection of the actual culture at large.

942
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:59.480
<v Speaker 8>So yeah, So if you look at Greece, the Orthodox

943
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.440
<v Speaker 8>there are more accepting of gay stuff or as. If

944
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:03.320
<v Speaker 8>you look at Russia or Eastern Europe, they're not. If

945
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:05.679
<v Speaker 8>you look at the Middle Eastern Orthodox.

946
00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:05.960
<v Speaker 3>Areas, they're not.

947
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:09.840
<v Speaker 8>And that the numbers in the United States are exactly

948
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:14.840
<v Speaker 8>on par with the general population's acceptance of homosexuality.

949
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:20.320
<v Speaker 4>So that makes sense. I mean, basically, wherever NATO goes

950
00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:28.599
<v Speaker 4>is where you get get all this skittles. So but

951
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:31.440
<v Speaker 4>I thank him for bringing all his discussion that these

952
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:36.800
<v Speaker 4>are different arguments not used to this type of bringing

953
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.559
<v Speaker 4>the stats. I don't mind it. I'm not really sure

954
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:43.679
<v Speaker 4>how it relates to which positions are true, but it

955
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:47.639
<v Speaker 4>is relevant, I guess, to bring up the cultural influences

956
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:51.800
<v Speaker 4>of the face absolutely. Now I'm looking for people that disagree.

957
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.880
<v Speaker 4>So I don't have a problem with people asking to

958
00:57:54.880 --> 00:57:58.320
<v Speaker 4>speak for Q and A, which is totally fine. As

959
00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:00.960
<v Speaker 4>you can tell, you've gotten the new loving Jay who

960
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:03.920
<v Speaker 4>was biting his lip to be patient the entire time.

961
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.519
<v Speaker 4>And I would like for people who disagreed to come

962
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:11.159
<v Speaker 4>to the front of the line. So I don't have

963
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:13.559
<v Speaker 4>a problem with the Q and A, but it always

964
00:58:13.599 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 4>ends up being Q and A, which is fine. But

965
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:18.840
<v Speaker 4>I'm looking for the real challenge, which is can I

966
00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:26.960
<v Speaker 4>refrain from being mean while I debate? So let's see,

967
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:29.760
<v Speaker 4>all right, we'll go to you guys raising your hand.

968
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:33.760
<v Speaker 4>So next up is Nick? What's up? Nick?

969
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:41.199
<v Speaker 3>How can you hear me?

970
00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:44.840
<v Speaker 4>I kind of hear it. Go by the way, impressions

971
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:47.159
<v Speaker 4>is not mean. I'm still going to personate people. It's

972
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:47.440
<v Speaker 4>not mean.

973
00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:51.239
<v Speaker 3>It's okay, it's okay. Anyway, I just have a question.

974
00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:54.000
<v Speaker 6>So I will be arguing from a more like skeptic

975
00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:55.920
<v Speaker 6>I guess alien position.

976
00:58:56.360 --> 00:58:58.960
<v Speaker 3>You would call it alien?

977
00:58:59.079 --> 00:59:05.079
<v Speaker 6>Like an alien? No, like a and like what like Arien,

978
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:09.159
<v Speaker 6>you know, like you know, the stuff doing with the

979
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:10.199
<v Speaker 6>trinity and stuff.

980
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:15.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, ok, yeah.

981
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:18.840
<v Speaker 6>So basically you like to bring up this like transcendental

982
00:59:18.920 --> 00:59:22.079
<v Speaker 6>argument right to when when arguing with atheists and stuff,

983
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:26.679
<v Speaker 6>and so basically it's it brings up the necessity of

984
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:32.079
<v Speaker 6>grounding like transcendental objects like reason itself. So basically you

985
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:38.960
<v Speaker 6>cannot reason without grounding reason itself. So so that's that's

986
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:41.000
<v Speaker 6>like a good argument, and I thought about it, But

987
00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:45.519
<v Speaker 6>still I don't see how the necessity of grounding reason

988
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:50.239
<v Speaker 6>would imply a utrinity, right, because all this implies is

989
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.400
<v Speaker 6>the necessity itself. But you can kind of you can

990
00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:56.199
<v Speaker 6>kind of solve this by platonism, right, so you can

991
00:59:56.280 --> 00:59:57.280
<v Speaker 6>kind of ground that and.

992
00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:04.559
<v Speaker 4>Work Platonism has fundamental problems which make Platonism impossible. But

993
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:06.360
<v Speaker 4>what does this have to do with arianism? I thought

994
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:07.840
<v Speaker 4>you were talking about arianism.

995
01:00:08.440 --> 01:00:12.599
<v Speaker 6>No, yeah, I just I just don't see how the

996
01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:16.000
<v Speaker 6>trinity comes in, right, So from the transal argument and

997
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:18.599
<v Speaker 6>why it is necessary as a whole, like in the

998
01:00:18.599 --> 01:00:21.920
<v Speaker 6>theology because you know, Orthodox Christians they said the things

999
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:25.239
<v Speaker 6>to fully as to other Christians as well. I don't

1000
01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:27.639
<v Speaker 6>see how that is necessary in the same way as

1001
01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:31.679
<v Speaker 6>the transcendental argument makes you know, reasoning grounding reasoning.

1002
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:36.000
<v Speaker 4>I mean I've addressed time, addressed, I have addressed tons

1003
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:43.280
<v Speaker 4>of times. Just posted on my audio feed the response

1004
01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:47.840
<v Speaker 4>to it's called Universals Conceptualism and response to doctor ed

1005
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:50.760
<v Speaker 4>Faser and I talk about how the argument is not

1006
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:57.280
<v Speaker 4>just for grounding theoretical you know, logical entities or whatever.

1007
01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:00.599
<v Speaker 4>It's it's actually an argument for an entire worldview. So

1008
01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:06.440
<v Speaker 4>the metaphysics that are required to have language, universals, categories,

1009
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:10.800
<v Speaker 4>et cetera, requires a specific type of world and universe,

1010
01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:14.679
<v Speaker 4>namely one in which there is a creator. There's telos

1011
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:20.920
<v Speaker 4>tellos teleology, there's causation, there's morals, there's absolutes, there's external world.

1012
01:01:21.519 --> 01:01:23.960
<v Speaker 4>All those things are part of the argument because it's

1013
01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:28.000
<v Speaker 4>a specific worldview and a specific metaphysic, and that requires

1014
01:01:28.039 --> 01:01:32.000
<v Speaker 4>the Christian Trinity. And Platonism doesn't work because Platonism is

1015
01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:35.719
<v Speaker 4>reduced as to a monad. Platonism doesn't explain how the

1016
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:38.360
<v Speaker 4>realm of the forums relates to this world. There's a

1017
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:44.000
<v Speaker 4>dialectical tension between being in becoming. Platonism givesupremacy to the

1018
01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:47.159
<v Speaker 4>one over the many. We don't have any explanation as

1019
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:49.840
<v Speaker 4>to why there's many and not just a one. I mean,

1020
01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:52.239
<v Speaker 4>there's all kinds of serious problems in Platonism.

1021
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:56.519
<v Speaker 6>I can see what they're saying, and I can sort

1022
01:01:56.559 --> 01:01:58.760
<v Speaker 6>of see your reasoning here, But at the end of

1023
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:02.199
<v Speaker 6>the day, like I would have to basically accept because

1024
01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:04.239
<v Speaker 6>that is not an argument. That's just you directing me

1025
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:06.760
<v Speaker 6>to read more about this stuff. So would you kindly

1026
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.920
<v Speaker 6>provide me, you know, if some sort of a guide

1027
01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:15.320
<v Speaker 6>into like understanding this pillological position better, Like how would

1028
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:19.719
<v Speaker 6>I actually go from the transcendental arguments to actually, you.

1029
01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:25.239
<v Speaker 4>Know, transcendental categories that make knowledge possible do not exist

1030
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:28.320
<v Speaker 4>in a vacuum or independent of one another. They all

1031
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:30.320
<v Speaker 4>kind of go together. So think of all the transcendental

1032
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:33.559
<v Speaker 4>categories in a big ball, and that they interrelate and

1033
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:38.039
<v Speaker 4>necessitate one another. And that type of a worldview requires

1034
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:42.559
<v Speaker 4>a world like the Christian position posits about God's creation,

1035
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:49.840
<v Speaker 4>man's moral duties, providence, regularity over time, regular nature, identity

1036
01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:55.920
<v Speaker 4>over time. That specific worldview resolves all those problems like

1037
01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:57.960
<v Speaker 4>the one in the Many as an example. And so

1038
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:01.519
<v Speaker 4>the argument is that trans category is presuppose a certain

1039
01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:04.000
<v Speaker 4>type of deity to ground all of those transmital categories,

1040
01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:05.559
<v Speaker 4>namely the trinitarian Christian God.

1041
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:12.760
<v Speaker 6>All right, but you don't see any other possibilities because obviously.

1042
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:15.719
<v Speaker 4>It's a holistic. It's a holistic argument, and so the

1043
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:19.719
<v Speaker 4>other possibilities are not going to have the Christian trinitarian

1044
01:03:19.800 --> 01:03:23.000
<v Speaker 4>theistic position. They're going to have other positions that at

1045
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:25.679
<v Speaker 4>a fundamental level, if you use, for example, change the

1046
01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:28.199
<v Speaker 4>deity that you're trying to use to ground the system

1047
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:31.679
<v Speaker 4>like Platonism. You can't ground it in Platonism because Platonism

1048
01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:33.719
<v Speaker 4>doesn't tell you how there's any similarity to the realm

1049
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:36.360
<v Speaker 4>of the forms to this realm, so you could do

1050
01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:36.960
<v Speaker 4>no grounding.

1051
01:03:39.880 --> 01:03:42.559
<v Speaker 3>All right, Well, thank you for your response, I guess

1052
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:43.159
<v Speaker 3>thank you.

1053
01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:45.079
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. You can check out that video where we went

1054
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:48.519
<v Speaker 4>into more detail. And I also did one called top

1055
01:03:48.760 --> 01:03:52.800
<v Speaker 4>ten arguments against the transcendental argument, which covers how it

1056
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:55.800
<v Speaker 4>relates to Trinity, and I also recently put it up

1057
01:03:55.840 --> 01:04:00.519
<v Speaker 4>on my podcast feed, the one about phaser. Can somebody

1058
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:03.280
<v Speaker 4>raise your hand? If you disagree, you go to headlline

1059
01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:06.679
<v Speaker 4>bye way. I appreciate your question, It's just that one's

1060
01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:10.400
<v Speaker 4>a really long, involved kind of response because I'm not

1061
01:04:10.519 --> 01:04:12.440
<v Speaker 4>knocking you that you seem like you're on the run

1062
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:20.480
<v Speaker 4>at the right track here lot thigh. So anybody who

1063
01:04:20.480 --> 01:04:23.400
<v Speaker 4>disagrees you got a headline, request to speak, and I

1064
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:25.079
<v Speaker 4>give you microphone, then you on mute. What's up?

1065
01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:26.400
<v Speaker 3>Hi?

1066
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:31.079
<v Speaker 12>So I'm not a Christian, but right now I believe

1067
01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:34.760
<v Speaker 12>that both Catholicism and Orthodoxy have strong arguments.

1068
01:04:35.159 --> 01:04:36.880
<v Speaker 3>But right now I mean more.

1069
01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:42.320
<v Speaker 12>Toward Catholicism, because I don't know how to reshoot doctrinal

1070
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.000
<v Speaker 12>development and the unity that he does.

1071
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:47.239
<v Speaker 3>And the what unity?

1072
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:52.079
<v Speaker 4>What do you mean? The how to refute unity? What

1073
01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:52.599
<v Speaker 4>does that mean?

1074
01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:53.440
<v Speaker 13>No?

1075
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:56.639
<v Speaker 12>Like that the church is one I knew that, and

1076
01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:00.719
<v Speaker 12>the first millionaim there was autophalis churches, But I don't

1077
01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:02.159
<v Speaker 12>think that it was the best model.

1078
01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Like why couldn't it evolve?

1079
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:05.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean it was not the First of all, it

1080
01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:08.559
<v Speaker 4>doesn't make any sense because an ecumenical council is what

1081
01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:13.039
<v Speaker 4>grants autocephally. So you're basically saying that ecumenical councils error

1082
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:14.679
<v Speaker 4>if you don't believe in all cephalist churches.

1083
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:19.159
<v Speaker 12>No, I'm just saying, why couldn't it evolve to a

1084
01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:19.920
<v Speaker 12>bitter system?

1085
01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:20.880
<v Speaker 3>Like right now?

1086
01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:26.760
<v Speaker 4>Well, first and foremost, there is no reason to believe

1087
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:29.599
<v Speaker 4>in the evolution of doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church itself

1088
01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:33.199
<v Speaker 4>has condemned the evolution of doctrine. An evolution of doctrine

1089
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:35.880
<v Speaker 4>is a two edged sword, because if it can evolve

1090
01:05:36.320 --> 01:05:39.440
<v Speaker 4>to be a papacy, then it can evolve to be

1091
01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:42.239
<v Speaker 4>liberal or something else. So it's a stupid position to

1092
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:45.079
<v Speaker 4>think that doctrine evolves over time. And nobody in the

1093
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:48.400
<v Speaker 4>first thousand years of Christianity teaches that doctrine evolves over time.

1094
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:53.719
<v Speaker 4>So again to say that autocephalus existence church, the existence

1095
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:57.920
<v Speaker 4>of motocephalist churches is itself a problem. Is you calling

1096
01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:00.360
<v Speaker 4>in to question the Council of Emphasis which granted it,

1097
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.760
<v Speaker 4>which means that the council's error, which means that you

1098
01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:05.039
<v Speaker 4>don't believe in the Christianity the first thousand years.

1099
01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:11.800
<v Speaker 12>But couldn't you say that the trinity or anation was also, No.

1100
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:14.800
<v Speaker 4>You cannot. No, this is a stupid argument. I'm not

1101
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:16.320
<v Speaker 4>trying to call used to it. It's just a dumb

1102
01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:22.400
<v Speaker 4>argument because the council that confirmed the Iconodualism, the Seven

1103
01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:24.800
<v Speaker 4>Ecamenical Council, says it is not a development. It is

1104
01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:28.760
<v Speaker 4>an ancient Apostolic tradition based on the theology of the

1105
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:34.800
<v Speaker 4>Hebrews and their icons and imagery and Sacramentalist principles. So no,

1106
01:06:35.079 --> 01:06:37.880
<v Speaker 4>you can't again to say that, as for example, Eric

1107
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:41.000
<v Speaker 4>Ibar does, is to reject the Seven Ecamentical Council. So

1108
01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:45.199
<v Speaker 4>once again, you do not believe the actual theological teaching

1109
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:48.320
<v Speaker 4>of the councils. The papal system is what you're arguing

1110
01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:50.719
<v Speaker 4>for in essentially rejecting the first size. So the other words,

1111
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:54.639
<v Speaker 4>the very argument is rejecting the theology the seven Ecamical councils.

1112
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:02.039
<v Speaker 12>I think you're arguing because of a Patundy and a

1113
01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:07.159
<v Speaker 12>Lamenta Lue, right, correct, But doesn't these documents say more

1114
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:10.400
<v Speaker 12>about modern errors than just development.

1115
01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:14.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And what I said was it's a two edged sword.

1116
01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:19.719
<v Speaker 4>So because those documents condemned the liberal evolution of doctrine,

1117
01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:22.840
<v Speaker 4>it doesn't matter because the very principle is there that

1118
01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:26.039
<v Speaker 4>there is no evolution of doctrine. Supposedly, that's why Vatican

1119
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:29.480
<v Speaker 4>one and statist cognitium argue that Vatican One was not

1120
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:31.800
<v Speaker 4>an innovation or development, but it was there from the

1121
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:35.199
<v Speaker 4>earliest days and that everybody believed it. So that's another

1122
01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:39.239
<v Speaker 4>contradiction that the Church can have evolution of doctrine that

1123
01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:42.840
<v Speaker 4>vindicates Vatican One, but also that there wasn't an evolution

1124
01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:44.920
<v Speaker 4>of doctrine. Everybody believe Vatican One. So it's a two

1125
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.639
<v Speaker 4>faced contradictory position that Rome is always putting out, which

1126
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:51.679
<v Speaker 4>allows for all the confusion and people to justify all

1127
01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:55.320
<v Speaker 4>the nonsense. No, I mean, and people even say I

1128
01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:57.599
<v Speaker 4>mean the whole reason there's a novasorto with all this

1129
01:07:57.719 --> 01:08:00.400
<v Speaker 4>madness is because it evolves in your church. So what

1130
01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:01.159
<v Speaker 4>are you talking about?

1131
01:08:03.280 --> 01:08:05.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I just want to clarify something.

1132
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:11.079
<v Speaker 12>So the Catholics think that the same papacy was un destroyed,

1133
01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:13.119
<v Speaker 12>like when Jesus gave the keys to put it was

1134
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:14.840
<v Speaker 12>like the same as.

1135
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:15.199
<v Speaker 3>It is now.

1136
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:23.840
<v Speaker 4>Vatican Ones, Vatican Ones Posture Attornis, and Satis cognitum argue

1137
01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:28.319
<v Speaker 4>that the Vatican One ideas are there from the earliest days,

1138
01:08:28.359 --> 01:08:32.880
<v Speaker 4>believed by all without question. But because there's problems for

1139
01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:37.359
<v Speaker 4>that view, other Roman Catholics, like Cardinal Newman, say will

1140
01:08:37.399 --> 01:08:42.079
<v Speaker 4>prove it with doctrinal development or evolution of doctrine. And

1141
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:44.319
<v Speaker 4>all I'm trying to tell you is that when Vatican

1142
01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:48.119
<v Speaker 4>One says that it's there from the beginning, but also

1143
01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:51.399
<v Speaker 4>it condemns doctrinal development, as other theologians of the Roman

1144
01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:54.399
<v Speaker 4>Cello Church say there's doctrinal development, then you get Vatican

1145
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:59.439
<v Speaker 4>two as the development of Vatican One. So development, I'm

1146
01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:01.960
<v Speaker 4>just telling you that once you adopt development, there's nothing

1147
01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:05.079
<v Speaker 4>that promises that it develops in a conservative way. It

1148
01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:09.359
<v Speaker 4>can develop into a liberal way. And that's exactly what Vatican.

1149
01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:16.039
<v Speaker 12>Two is, yes, but doesn't the liberal liberal development is

1150
01:09:16.119 --> 01:09:19.800
<v Speaker 12>in the category of the modern errors that limitably condemns.

1151
01:09:20.279 --> 01:09:24.319
<v Speaker 4>Then you're rejecting Vatican two, which is the liberal development.

1152
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.319
<v Speaker 12>But like the Immaculate Conception or the assumption is not.

1153
01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:32.359
<v Speaker 4>It doesn't matter because if development is admitted, there's nothing

1154
01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:34.520
<v Speaker 4>that guarantees that it's not going to develop in the

1155
01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:38.520
<v Speaker 4>liberal tradition. And I'm proving that by pointing to Vatican two,

1156
01:09:39.039 --> 01:09:41.800
<v Speaker 4>which is dogma, which developed in the liberal way.

1157
01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:49.000
<v Speaker 3>Can you say, what are these liberal thing that Vatican

1158
01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:49.800
<v Speaker 3>two says?

1159
01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:53.600
<v Speaker 4>How about praying with Muslims together because Muslims worship the

1160
01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:54.720
<v Speaker 4>same godd as Christians.

1161
01:09:57.439 --> 01:10:03.720
<v Speaker 12>M I mean, yes, it can be liberal, but why

1162
01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:07.560
<v Speaker 12>could we just interpreted as a nice gisture like to

1163
01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:10.479
<v Speaker 12>make people more So.

1164
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:12.840
<v Speaker 4>This is the problem. So in the first thousand years,

1165
01:10:12.920 --> 01:10:17.119
<v Speaker 4>it's condemned and you're excommunicated as a prelate to pray

1166
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:22.199
<v Speaker 4>in sects or synagogues with other groups. Post Vatican two,

1167
01:10:22.279 --> 01:10:24.560
<v Speaker 4>it's the work of the Holy Spirit. That's a contradiction.

1168
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:28.760
<v Speaker 4>So that's the problem with development. Development develops into Vatican

1169
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:31.399
<v Speaker 4>to Abu Dhabi Faith Center, where we're all worshiping the

1170
01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:34.279
<v Speaker 4>same God together, and you can't do it because it's condemned.

1171
01:10:34.439 --> 01:10:37.560
<v Speaker 4>It's a contradiction. How do you call crusades against Muslims?

1172
01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:39.960
<v Speaker 4>But now you can go pray in the moss towards Mecca,

1173
01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.079
<v Speaker 4>as both popes, the past two popes have done.

1174
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:46.000
<v Speaker 12>They will say, like a content Domino, they will say

1175
01:10:46.039 --> 01:10:49.359
<v Speaker 12>that it was atended only on that period and not forever.

1176
01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:52.439
<v Speaker 4>This is why you're I'm not trying. I'm really having

1177
01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:55.000
<v Speaker 4>a really hard time not being mean here because you

1178
01:10:55.159 --> 01:11:01.560
<v Speaker 4>just admitted that dogmas condemn the dogmas don't develop in

1179
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:03.560
<v Speaker 4>a liberal way, and then you just told me the

1180
01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:06.199
<v Speaker 4>cantat Domino is for that period and not for forever.

1181
01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:07.960
<v Speaker 4>You don't see that as a contradiction.

1182
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:15.199
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, I see your point. I see your point. Yeah,

1183
01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:17.840
<v Speaker 12>that's all for me. Thank you for answering my questions.

1184
01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:19.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, great questions. Yeah. And I'm not trying to be rude.

1185
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:26.840
<v Speaker 4>I'm just really see you're of love, man, See you're

1186
01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:32.439
<v Speaker 4>of love, dude, chilling out fair questions. I understand. I've

1187
01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:36.520
<v Speaker 4>been where you're at. I had to work through the

1188
01:11:36.760 --> 01:11:39.439
<v Speaker 4>calg Orthodox issue for many, many, many years. So it's

1189
01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:49.640
<v Speaker 4>all good, dude, the man cave. I don't understand how

1190
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:51.880
<v Speaker 4>that we get up to sixteen hundred. Is it something

1191
01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.159
<v Speaker 4>to do with YouTube? I don't get it, like it

1192
01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:56.359
<v Speaker 4>gets out. We got up to sixteen hundred, which is

1193
01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:02.399
<v Speaker 4>one of my highest live stream audiences numbers wise. I

1194
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:07.159
<v Speaker 4>think one time we had two thousand. Maybe Crucible dumped

1195
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:10.720
<v Speaker 4>into into here. I'm not sure, but I noticed, like

1196
01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:14.920
<v Speaker 4>it's the wildest fluctuations that I see on my control screen.

1197
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:17.560
<v Speaker 4>It goes from nine hundred to sixteen hundred, to nine

1198
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:21.039
<v Speaker 4>hundred to sixteen hundred to nine hundred to thirteen hundred's

1199
01:12:21.399 --> 01:12:24.079
<v Speaker 4>are are there really five six hundred people just dipping

1200
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:26.920
<v Speaker 4>out within like two seconds? I don't know who knows

1201
01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:35.199
<v Speaker 4>what's going on. I'm mute, man, what's up? I was

1202
01:12:35.199 --> 01:12:36.720
<v Speaker 4>about to eat a ginger chew, but I was like

1203
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:38.439
<v Speaker 4>that ginger she's been sitting there for like two months.

1204
01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:40.439
<v Speaker 4>I don't think I'm gonna eat that. What's up? Man,

1205
01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:42.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm mute. You raise your hand. You don't want to talk,

1206
01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:44.680
<v Speaker 4>man cave, I'm mute.

1207
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh sorry, I didn't even know I was muted.

1208
01:12:47.479 --> 01:12:50.159
<v Speaker 13>I was actually chatting with you, but you didn't hear

1209
01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:50.960
<v Speaker 13>anything I was saying.

1210
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:54.159
<v Speaker 4>Well that's why I always say I'm mute.

1211
01:12:54.640 --> 01:12:55.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1212
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:59.239
<v Speaker 13>No, So I've been listening to the channel for a

1213
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:01.720
<v Speaker 13>little while and you know, just to spice you know,

1214
01:13:01.760 --> 01:13:04.600
<v Speaker 13>some some things up, just to give some of my background.

1215
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:08.880
<v Speaker 13>I'm an atheist and I just, uh, you know, I

1216
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:13.159
<v Speaker 13>grew up in the church, and there are, in my opinion,

1217
01:13:13.479 --> 01:13:15.159
<v Speaker 13>you know, very reasonable.

1218
01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:18.439
<v Speaker 3>Steps that I took to arrive where I'm at.

1219
01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:20.560
<v Speaker 11>So, you know, I think, you.

1220
01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:21.760
<v Speaker 3>Know, I love conversations.

1221
01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:25.239
<v Speaker 13>I'm not a big debate person, but I have had

1222
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:27.479
<v Speaker 13>interesting conversations with Christians.

1223
01:13:27.479 --> 01:13:28.640
<v Speaker 3>I was in church for New Years.

1224
01:13:28.680 --> 01:13:31.279
<v Speaker 13>So I'm not coming for a place where I think

1225
01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:33.800
<v Speaker 13>that Christians are bad people or anything of that nature.

1226
01:13:35.720 --> 01:13:39.359
<v Speaker 3>I will maybe propose some of you know, a couple.

1227
01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:40.920
<v Speaker 13>Of reasons why I ended up where I am, and

1228
01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:44.239
<v Speaker 13>I wanted to maybe get your viewpoint. I don't I

1229
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:46.479
<v Speaker 13>don't think that will agree, but I think it may

1230
01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:51.479
<v Speaker 13>you know, lead to some interesting conversation. Right, So I'll

1231
01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:53.800
<v Speaker 13>just get yeah, I'll just get right to the point.

1232
01:13:54.199 --> 01:13:56.800
<v Speaker 13>So one of one of the you know, things that

1233
01:13:56.920 --> 01:13:59.640
<v Speaker 13>I started to think about, you know, when I was

1234
01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:02.000
<v Speaker 13>really studying the word, and I'm telling you I studied

1235
01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:07.880
<v Speaker 13>it was just the thought that God is perfect? Do

1236
01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:10.079
<v Speaker 13>you do you believe that God is perfect?

1237
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:11.119
<v Speaker 4>Yes?

1238
01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:17.079
<v Speaker 13>Okay, so like everything God does is perfect?

1239
01:14:17.479 --> 01:14:19.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, all right?

1240
01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:24.520
<v Speaker 13>So for me, you know, I'm reading the Bible and

1241
01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:30.079
<v Speaker 13>God was perfect in the Old Testament too, right, So

1242
01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:36.479
<v Speaker 13>why what part of that perfection included drowning babies.

1243
01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:36.960
<v Speaker 10>During the flood?

1244
01:14:37.159 --> 01:14:41.279
<v Speaker 13>Like God's omni present, so he's like everywhere, he's like

1245
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:42.720
<v Speaker 13>watching babies drown.

1246
01:14:45.800 --> 01:14:48.760
<v Speaker 4>Well, God has the authority over life and death. So

1247
01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:51.720
<v Speaker 4>if you're going to say that's wrong, Like, on what

1248
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:53.239
<v Speaker 4>basis is it wrong.

1249
01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:57.680
<v Speaker 13>Because babies are drowning, Like drowning is a horrible way

1250
01:14:58.520 --> 01:14:59.359
<v Speaker 13>to die.

1251
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:04.000
<v Speaker 4>But the universe is a cold, meaningless series of determined

1252
01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:09.199
<v Speaker 4>causal effects, causal chains, Like, what's what's wrong with it?

1253
01:15:09.319 --> 01:15:12.159
<v Speaker 13>Because you know we have things like natural disasters?

1254
01:15:12.279 --> 01:15:13.520
<v Speaker 3>Right, we have earthquakes.

1255
01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:15.720
<v Speaker 4>You know what I'm saying, If your view is true,

1256
01:15:16.159 --> 01:15:17.840
<v Speaker 4>why is it wrong? Or what does it mean for

1257
01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:19.680
<v Speaker 4>someone to be wrong? Why is that bad?

1258
01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:22.600
<v Speaker 13>Because if I was perfect, I'd figure out.

1259
01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:23.000
<v Speaker 3>It another way.

1260
01:15:24.079 --> 01:15:26.960
<v Speaker 4>No, but I'm saying, if there is no God, what's

1261
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:28.880
<v Speaker 4>the basis for saying anything is wrong?

1262
01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:35.880
<v Speaker 13>Again, like the premise that you're you know, asserting that

1263
01:15:36.119 --> 01:15:41.239
<v Speaker 13>the hasc tod an objective morality view, we as human

1264
01:15:41.319 --> 01:15:43.920
<v Speaker 13>beings are trying to figure this thing out.

1265
01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:47.000
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so the so if there's not an objective morality,

1266
01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:47.720
<v Speaker 4>then that's I'm.

1267
01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:49.800
<v Speaker 13>Just if I could, I would take like ten seconds.

1268
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:53.079
<v Speaker 13>So like century after century, right, I think we get

1269
01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:55.760
<v Speaker 13>a lot of things wrong. But if you look at

1270
01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:58.439
<v Speaker 13>how we treat each other to day versus a hundred

1271
01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:02.159
<v Speaker 13>years ago, twenty years ago, thousand years ago, I think

1272
01:16:02.199 --> 01:16:04.000
<v Speaker 13>we're gradually getting things.

1273
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:06.720
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so we're better than we used to be. What's

1274
01:16:06.760 --> 01:16:08.359
<v Speaker 4>the benchmark for what's better?

1275
01:16:10.159 --> 01:16:13.760
<v Speaker 13>Just general happiness, general health?

1276
01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:16.840
<v Speaker 4>Why does any of that matter? We're just meaningless cogs

1277
01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:19.960
<v Speaker 4>and a determined machine universe. What does happiness even mean?

1278
01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:24.520
<v Speaker 13>Because in your view, I'm asking your view, Yeah, I'm

1279
01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:29.399
<v Speaker 13>telling I'm telling you because in your view, no, because

1280
01:16:29.399 --> 01:16:31.079
<v Speaker 13>you feel like God gives us a purpose.

1281
01:16:31.159 --> 01:16:34.720
<v Speaker 4>Right, Well, there's also the principle I'm making a more

1282
01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:37.920
<v Speaker 4>philosophical point about teleology, and I'm saying that if the

1283
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:41.680
<v Speaker 4>universe has no purpose, there's no purposiveness, then there's not

1284
01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:45.720
<v Speaker 4>actually anything that's all actions are equalized, they just are.

1285
01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:51.760
<v Speaker 13>So I disagree because I feel like we all can

1286
01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:54.039
<v Speaker 13>give our lives purpose and.

1287
01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:57.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but you're a meaningless being in a meaningless universe,

1288
01:16:57.760 --> 01:17:02.479
<v Speaker 4>and so your petty little to oral subjective purpose doesn't

1289
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:06.199
<v Speaker 4>mean anything ultimately. I mean, you can call my No,

1290
01:17:06.239 --> 01:17:08.720
<v Speaker 4>I mean is that your Is that consistent with the position?

1291
01:17:09.439 --> 01:17:12.079
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you're you're calling my time that I spent.

1292
01:17:11.960 --> 01:17:14.039
<v Speaker 13>With my family over the holidays and the joy that

1293
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:16.720
<v Speaker 13>we had and the presence that I made and took.

1294
01:17:17.079 --> 01:17:19.399
<v Speaker 4>In the big picture? Is that not true that in

1295
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:21.439
<v Speaker 4>the big picture, in your position, it's beingless.

1296
01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:26.119
<v Speaker 13>It's it's I and my family had an amazing.

1297
01:17:26.159 --> 01:17:29.000
<v Speaker 4>This is all subjective. These are emotional appeals. That's a fallacy.

1298
01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:32.079
<v Speaker 3>It's well, it's to you.

1299
01:17:32.119 --> 01:17:34.399
<v Speaker 4>But my argument, no, it's not to me. You don't

1300
01:17:34.439 --> 01:17:37.159
<v Speaker 4>so you don't think there's a fallacies that's all subjective.

1301
01:17:37.239 --> 01:17:39.159
<v Speaker 3>I think I think that us as human.

1302
01:17:38.960 --> 01:17:42.560
<v Speaker 4>Beings are fallacy subjective. I think that So you're just

1303
01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:44.920
<v Speaker 4>you're not here to preach, dude. Can you debate or not?

1304
01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:47.600
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm telling you.

1305
01:17:47.600 --> 01:17:51.159
<v Speaker 4>Can you you're telling me. I'm asking you if if

1306
01:17:51.199 --> 01:17:53.479
<v Speaker 4>fallacies and the laws of logic or subjective.

1307
01:17:55.319 --> 01:17:58.000
<v Speaker 13>It depends on the argument. There are this argument and

1308
01:17:58.079 --> 01:17:59.359
<v Speaker 13>the objective arguments.

1309
01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:03.720
<v Speaker 4>Well, we're talking about what we're talking about, that's what

1310
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:04.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm referring to. Obviously.

1311
01:18:05.560 --> 01:18:08.359
<v Speaker 13>Yeah, I think there's an objective right or wrong between me.

1312
01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:10.960
<v Speaker 4>So you made an emotional appeal bringing up your family

1313
01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:14.600
<v Speaker 4>at the holidays, and I'm saying that that's a fallacy,

1314
01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:18.159
<v Speaker 4>and you're saying that that's my opinion. So there's not fallacies.

1315
01:18:18.399 --> 01:18:21.159
<v Speaker 3>I'll conclude my magin my argument is.

1316
01:18:21.279 --> 01:18:23.119
<v Speaker 4>You didn't make an argument, you made a fallacy.

1317
01:18:23.239 --> 01:18:23.800
<v Speaker 3>I will, I will.

1318
01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:25.319
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to come now, hold on, I want to

1319
01:18:25.359 --> 01:18:28.039
<v Speaker 4>before you go on, I need to know if fallacies

1320
01:18:28.119 --> 01:18:32.600
<v Speaker 4>exist or if they're subjective. Yes, okay, So there's laws

1321
01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:33.640
<v Speaker 4>of logic? What are those?

1322
01:18:34.439 --> 01:18:36.199
<v Speaker 3>Well, if I can, So.

1323
01:18:36.119 --> 01:18:38.479
<v Speaker 4>You're not going to address the questions. You're not. You can't.

1324
01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:40.279
<v Speaker 4>You're not here to preach. What are there laws of

1325
01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:40.880
<v Speaker 4>logic or not?

1326
01:18:41.880 --> 01:18:42.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1327
01:18:42.359 --> 01:18:44.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, okay? And where are those? What are those in

1328
01:18:44.600 --> 01:18:45.600
<v Speaker 4>a meaningless universe?

1329
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:51.439
<v Speaker 13>If they're a verifiable truths and falsities and that we

1330
01:18:51.479 --> 01:18:54.079
<v Speaker 13>can test, those are very good gauges.

1331
01:18:54.479 --> 01:18:56.319
<v Speaker 4>Okay, how do you test a law of logic?

1332
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:00.720
<v Speaker 14>Again?

1333
01:19:00.760 --> 01:19:03.199
<v Speaker 13>Are we talking about morality or other things as science?

1334
01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:05.640
<v Speaker 4>Okay? So you don't even know what you're talking about.

1335
01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:07.920
<v Speaker 4>You're not even you don't even know, You're like not

1336
01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:10.520
<v Speaker 4>even in the game. I'm talking about the laws of

1337
01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:13.600
<v Speaker 4>logic and what they are and where they are and

1338
01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:17.840
<v Speaker 4>how they're justified because you said they do exist.

1339
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:19.600
<v Speaker 13>Okay, where you give an example, because I had a

1340
01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:21.760
<v Speaker 13>very simple point I was just trying to close off.

1341
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:22.359
<v Speaker 3>With in ten seconds.

1342
01:19:22.359 --> 01:19:24.159
<v Speaker 4>Well, you made a fallacy and I called out the

1343
01:19:24.199 --> 01:19:26.760
<v Speaker 4>fallacy of an emotional appeal when you started saying that,

1344
01:19:27.159 --> 01:19:29.600
<v Speaker 4>how dare you say that my time with my family

1345
01:19:29.680 --> 01:19:31.800
<v Speaker 4>doesn't have any meaning? And I'm saying, that's an emotional appeal,

1346
01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:34.359
<v Speaker 4>it's relevant to you today, and you're saying that's why

1347
01:19:34.359 --> 01:19:36.960
<v Speaker 4>I said, well, what a minute. You said that's subjective,

1348
01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:39.600
<v Speaker 4>and I said, no, an emotional appeal is a fallacy,

1349
01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:42.600
<v Speaker 4>it's not subjective. That's why I'm asking you if laws

1350
01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:45.840
<v Speaker 4>of logic are real or subjective? And you said they're real,

1351
01:19:46.159 --> 01:19:47.880
<v Speaker 4>And now I'm asking you how they're real?

1352
01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:48.439
<v Speaker 3>What are they?

1353
01:19:48.439 --> 01:19:50.800
<v Speaker 4>Where are they? What's the justification for believing those things

1354
01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:51.840
<v Speaker 4>in an atheist universe?

1355
01:19:53.359 --> 01:19:56.560
<v Speaker 13>Well, again, like I said, I will grant you that

1356
01:19:56.600 --> 01:19:57.760
<v Speaker 13>there are laws of logic.

1357
01:19:57.960 --> 01:19:59.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm not well for questioned?

1358
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:02.760
<v Speaker 4>So what are they? How are they? Where are they?

1359
01:20:02.840 --> 01:20:04.560
<v Speaker 4>What's the justification for those in eight?

1360
01:20:05.760 --> 01:20:07.399
<v Speaker 13>Can you tell me some examples of the laws and

1361
01:20:07.439 --> 01:20:08.840
<v Speaker 13>logic so I can follow what you're saying.

1362
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:10.399
<v Speaker 4>There's a point, all right, So like, if you're going

1363
01:20:10.479 --> 01:20:12.720
<v Speaker 4>to come debate, maybe you should have known about those

1364
01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:16.479
<v Speaker 4>things before you debate. That's not being mean. If you

1365
01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:18.279
<v Speaker 4>come to debate and you don't know what a law

1366
01:20:18.319 --> 01:20:21.640
<v Speaker 4>of logic is, you're not ready to debate, that's not

1367
01:20:21.640 --> 01:20:25.880
<v Speaker 4>me being mean. If you disagree, raise your hand and

1368
01:20:25.880 --> 01:20:31.279
<v Speaker 4>I'll bring you to the head of the line. Who disagrees? Okay, Monitor?

1369
01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:31.680
<v Speaker 4>What's up?

1370
01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Dude?

1371
01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:41.800
<v Speaker 10>Hey, okay, yep, I don't disagree, but can I have

1372
01:20:41.840 --> 01:20:42.239
<v Speaker 10>a question?

1373
01:20:42.319 --> 01:20:43.920
<v Speaker 4>Can I ask why did you come to that now?

1374
01:20:44.079 --> 01:20:46.840
<v Speaker 4>Because I asked people specifically to come to the headline

1375
01:20:46.840 --> 01:20:50.319
<v Speaker 4>if they disagree, and so you like metal? What's up?

1376
01:20:54.079 --> 01:20:56.119
<v Speaker 4>See now we're back to fifteen hundred live. I don't

1377
01:20:56.199 --> 01:20:59.920
<v Speaker 4>understand what's a dog?

1378
01:21:01.479 --> 01:21:01.760
<v Speaker 3>Hello?

1379
01:21:02.720 --> 01:21:03.119
<v Speaker 4>Yes, sir?

1380
01:21:04.359 --> 01:21:07.640
<v Speaker 15>Oh hey, sorry you said Monitor? I was just I

1381
01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:10.000
<v Speaker 15>didn't I didn't hear it was a metal ass foreword

1382
01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:11.479
<v Speaker 15>the wrong thing.

1383
01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:12.880
<v Speaker 4>Go ahead, Oh you're.

1384
01:21:12.680 --> 01:21:15.479
<v Speaker 15>Good, Thanks for letting me on. I've been trying to

1385
01:21:15.800 --> 01:21:16.680
<v Speaker 15>get on for a while.

1386
01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:22.680
<v Speaker 11>You know, I try to be pretty proficient.

1387
01:21:22.199 --> 01:21:26.159
<v Speaker 15>In my philosophical thinking, but for the most part, I

1388
01:21:26.159 --> 01:21:27.319
<v Speaker 15>guess I'm pretty adept in it.

1389
01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:29.520
<v Speaker 11>So forgive me ahead.

1390
01:21:29.279 --> 01:21:31.479
<v Speaker 4>Of time, your adapt or, inapt.

1391
01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:34.600
<v Speaker 3>Or excuse me, okay, what I mean?

1392
01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:37.199
<v Speaker 11>Okay.

1393
01:21:37.319 --> 01:21:41.199
<v Speaker 15>So I've been attending an Orthodox parish for the past

1394
01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:42.000
<v Speaker 15>four years.

1395
01:21:42.680 --> 01:21:46.319
<v Speaker 11>In southern California, and I grew up Baptist.

1396
01:21:46.359 --> 01:21:48.880
<v Speaker 15>I went to an Evangelical university, Biola.

1397
01:21:48.920 --> 01:21:49.760
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure you've heard of it.

1398
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:50.479
<v Speaker 4>It's pretty well known.

1399
01:21:52.279 --> 01:21:55.640
<v Speaker 15>But I'm really trying to get to the point where

1400
01:21:56.760 --> 01:21:59.760
<v Speaker 15>I recently have kind of stopped attending because I really,

1401
01:22:00.039 --> 01:22:03.479
<v Speaker 15>m hmm. There's just some some qualms I've had that

1402
01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:06.199
<v Speaker 15>I just can't get my Protestant mind around.

1403
01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:12.119
<v Speaker 11>Mainly in particular, I guess.

1404
01:22:11.880 --> 01:22:15.840
<v Speaker 15>The the final authority that Scripture has.

1405
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:17.039
<v Speaker 16>And.

1406
01:22:21.159 --> 01:22:24.199
<v Speaker 15>I guess most people I talked to at my parish

1407
01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:32.960
<v Speaker 15>they would hold tradition and the the traditions of the

1408
01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:39.800
<v Speaker 15>Church essentially as a safeguard for the interpretation of Scripture.

1409
01:22:41.079 --> 01:22:42.720
<v Speaker 11>Do you see it as such as well?

1410
01:22:43.279 --> 01:22:45.840
<v Speaker 4>I would say that'd be one element of tradition, sure

1411
01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:48.600
<v Speaker 4>would be one that would be one function of it.

1412
01:22:48.680 --> 01:22:54.640
<v Speaker 15>Sure, Okay, I guess really it's my main My main

1413
01:22:54.720 --> 01:22:59.359
<v Speaker 15>qualm with it is ecumenical counsels are infallible in an

1414
01:22:59.439 --> 01:23:07.399
<v Speaker 15>orthodoxy point. And I don't really see how they are infallible.

1415
01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:12.399
<v Speaker 11>Because ultimately, if they go outside the.

1416
01:23:12.319 --> 01:23:17.800
<v Speaker 15>Bounds of scripture, then shouldn't they be held to Okay.

1417
01:23:17.560 --> 01:23:19.880
<v Speaker 4>Well, first of all, they don't go outside the bounds

1418
01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:22.520
<v Speaker 4>of scripture, And in fact, in every ecumenical council they

1419
01:23:22.640 --> 01:23:28.000
<v Speaker 4>cite as the first level of authority divine revelation, particularly scripture,

1420
01:23:28.239 --> 01:23:31.199
<v Speaker 4>so scriptures almost always put first, and then they'll list

1421
01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:34.359
<v Speaker 4>arguments from tradition and church fathers, and then arguments from logic,

1422
01:23:34.439 --> 01:23:37.479
<v Speaker 4>so there's always usually kind of a tear system going

1423
01:23:37.520 --> 01:23:40.560
<v Speaker 4>on there. But the idea that they would go outside

1424
01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:42.520
<v Speaker 4>of or contradict, we would say, I mean, you can

1425
01:23:42.560 --> 01:23:44.920
<v Speaker 4>go to divine revelation. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit

1426
01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:47.319
<v Speaker 4>would guide the church, so the idea that the church

1427
01:23:47.479 --> 01:23:52.319
<v Speaker 4>universally could error really invalidates the promise of Christ that

1428
01:23:52.359 --> 01:23:54.000
<v Speaker 4>he would lead them and guide them into whole truth,

1429
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:56.760
<v Speaker 4>and that there's one holy Catholic Apostolic Church, or that

1430
01:23:56.800 --> 01:23:58.960
<v Speaker 4>there's one Lord, one face, one baptism. As Paul says,

1431
01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:03.560
<v Speaker 4>like the entire universal Church can fail, then the gates

1432
01:24:03.560 --> 01:24:07.079
<v Speaker 4>of Hell prevail against the Church. So maybe the mistake

1433
01:24:07.359 --> 01:24:11.960
<v Speaker 4>is your interpretation of what you think is going outside

1434
01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:16.640
<v Speaker 4>the bounds of scripture, whether versus whether they really did totally.

1435
01:24:16.760 --> 01:24:19.560
<v Speaker 11>And that's ultimately what I've had to come to terms with.

1436
01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:21.800
<v Speaker 4>So what's an example of what's an example of an

1437
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:24.039
<v Speaker 4>ecumenical council that went outside the buses war?

1438
01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:27.800
<v Speaker 11>Well, I wouldn't.

1439
01:24:27.840 --> 01:24:30.560
<v Speaker 15>I mean, I guess maybe the triumph of orthodoxy in

1440
01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:34.840
<v Speaker 15>terms of icon veneration being re implemented.

1441
01:24:34.319 --> 01:24:37.399
<v Speaker 11>Back in to the churches of practice.

1442
01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:38.960
<v Speaker 4>Right, So how would that be going out saw the

1443
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:41.359
<v Speaker 4>bounds of scripture when you find out throughout all the

1444
01:24:41.479 --> 01:24:43.560
<v Speaker 4>throughout all the Old Testament that God tells you to

1445
01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:45.640
<v Speaker 4>venerate things like the arc of the Covenant.

1446
01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:47.199
<v Speaker 11>Totally.

1447
01:24:47.279 --> 01:24:51.640
<v Speaker 15>And I understand that that typeological argument, but it really

1448
01:24:51.680 --> 01:24:55.319
<v Speaker 15>doesn't quite hit home with me and my own heart,

1449
01:24:56.119 --> 01:24:59.159
<v Speaker 15>and I really wish I could get to the point

1450
01:24:59.159 --> 01:25:03.439
<v Speaker 15>where it does. Ultimately, you know, I don't see it happening.

1451
01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:04.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean I do.

1452
01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:09.439
<v Speaker 15>I watched countless hours, read you know, countless pages of books,

1453
01:25:09.880 --> 01:25:13.119
<v Speaker 15>and ultimately I feel like you can't really trace it back.

1454
01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:15.640
<v Speaker 11>To the first century.

1455
01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:21.520
<v Speaker 4>Ultimately, did they have the eu Christ in the first century?

1456
01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:24.840
<v Speaker 4>They did, Yes, sir, okay, was that revered.

1457
01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:28.399
<v Speaker 15>More than it is now in Protestant circles?

1458
01:25:28.399 --> 01:25:33.239
<v Speaker 4>I would say, yes, hold on, was that I'm just well.

1459
01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:35.479
<v Speaker 11>I just mean, like it's it's revered.

1460
01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:39.039
<v Speaker 15>Then, it's revered now. But I would say it has

1461
01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:43.079
<v Speaker 15>more of a it has more of a relaxed view

1462
01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:44.239
<v Speaker 15>nowadays than it did.

1463
01:25:44.520 --> 01:25:47.479
<v Speaker 4>You know, like, no, no, I'm not talking about Protestants today.

1464
01:25:47.479 --> 01:25:50.399
<v Speaker 4>I'm just asking you if they revered, if they revered

1465
01:25:50.399 --> 01:25:52.439
<v Speaker 4>the Eucharist and believed in the real presence of the

1466
01:25:52.439 --> 01:25:54.920
<v Speaker 4>first century? Is that not a created thing? Is that idolatry?

1467
01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.600
<v Speaker 4>Would Wouldn't that violate the point you're making about the

1468
01:25:57.640 --> 01:25:58.319
<v Speaker 4>seventh the Council.

1469
01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:01.279
<v Speaker 11>I guess it would. Yes.

1470
01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:06.159
<v Speaker 4>So in Joshua seven it says Joshua torres close and

1471
01:26:06.199 --> 01:26:08.399
<v Speaker 4>fell in the arc, fell in on the earth on

1472
01:26:08.439 --> 01:26:10.039
<v Speaker 4>his face before the ark of the Lord him and

1473
01:26:10.039 --> 01:26:12.560
<v Speaker 4>all the elder elders of Israel. So they're prostrating before

1474
01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:13.840
<v Speaker 4>the arc. Is idolatry?

1475
01:26:16.119 --> 01:26:19.800
<v Speaker 11>No, I don't think it is. But also the presence

1476
01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:20.640
<v Speaker 11>of God was.

1477
01:26:22.079 --> 01:26:24.560
<v Speaker 15>In the ark at that moment, so you don't believe

1478
01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:25.840
<v Speaker 15>it is in the Eucharist.

1479
01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:28.399
<v Speaker 4>So, but he's not president in the liturgy. I don't

1480
01:26:28.479 --> 01:26:31.039
<v Speaker 4>understand is he president in the bodies of the Saints

1481
01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:36.359
<v Speaker 4>or not he is? So where's the problem?

1482
01:26:37.159 --> 01:26:39.159
<v Speaker 11>I guess the problem for me is.

1483
01:26:41.319 --> 01:26:45.479
<v Speaker 15>I understand the logic to get to the point where

1484
01:26:46.119 --> 01:26:50.640
<v Speaker 15>you know the prototype when when you when you venerate

1485
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:54.680
<v Speaker 15>the prototype, you're you're venerating Christ. Right, Ultimately I understand that,

1486
01:26:55.439 --> 01:26:58.279
<v Speaker 15>But as a practice, I don't see it happening in

1487
01:26:58.319 --> 01:27:01.640
<v Speaker 15>the first century archaeologically or historically.

1488
01:27:01.760 --> 01:27:07.760
<v Speaker 4>Where's the Protestant Canada scripture in the first century?

1489
01:27:08.279 --> 01:27:11.600
<v Speaker 15>That That's another thing I've been thinking about, truly, is

1490
01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:16.199
<v Speaker 15>I don't really I understand the argument that, well, where

1491
01:27:16.239 --> 01:27:17.640
<v Speaker 15>did you get the Canada Scripture?

1492
01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:19.760
<v Speaker 4>No, no, I didn't say that. I'm not going to the

1493
01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:24.039
<v Speaker 4>canon argument. I'm specifically saying the argument presupposes that there

1494
01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:27.279
<v Speaker 4>would be some written proof or evidence of that in

1495
01:27:27.319 --> 01:27:31.319
<v Speaker 4>the first century, And I'm saying that Protestants themselves believe

1496
01:27:31.479 --> 01:27:34.800
<v Speaker 4>multiple doctrines that are not explicitly written in the first

1497
01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:38.159
<v Speaker 4>century documents or texts. For example, where in the first

1498
01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:40.079
<v Speaker 4>century is the Protestant or the second century of the

1499
01:27:40.079 --> 01:27:41.119
<v Speaker 4>Protestant Canada Scripture.

1500
01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:46.640
<v Speaker 11>I think the Canada Scripture was already pretty well established.

1501
01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:50.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's totally not true. Where did you get that idea?

1502
01:27:50.199 --> 01:27:52.880
<v Speaker 4>We name a church father in the first, second, or

1503
01:27:52.920 --> 01:27:55.000
<v Speaker 4>third century that lists the Protestant candascripture?

1504
01:27:56.279 --> 01:27:58.039
<v Speaker 11>Do they need to lift it if they already.

1505
01:27:58.039 --> 01:28:00.279
<v Speaker 4>You're just said that, Where was the evidence it's in

1506
01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:03.920
<v Speaker 4>the first few centuries or the first century for icon veneration?

1507
01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:06.840
<v Speaker 11>Well, right, right, okay, I see, I see your thing.

1508
01:28:08.399 --> 01:28:11.520
<v Speaker 4>Okay, name a Protestant, Name a church father in the

1509
01:28:11.560 --> 01:28:17.640
<v Speaker 4>first three centuries that has a Protestant cannon scripture, that.

1510
01:28:17.520 --> 01:28:18.680
<v Speaker 11>Has a canon of scripture?

1511
01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:23.279
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you have no that has the Protestant canon

1512
01:28:23.319 --> 01:28:24.960
<v Speaker 4>of scripture? Are you having a hard time? I'm not

1513
01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:26.399
<v Speaker 4>trying to be mean, but like, it's not a hard

1514
01:28:28.640 --> 01:28:30.720
<v Speaker 4>Can you name a church father for the third time

1515
01:28:30.800 --> 01:28:33.760
<v Speaker 4>in the first three centuries that lists the Protestant canon

1516
01:28:33.800 --> 01:28:34.319
<v Speaker 4>of scripture?

1517
01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:38.960
<v Speaker 3>What do you mean by product?

1518
01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:42.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean, have you actually read this stuff? I'm not

1519
01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:44.560
<v Speaker 4>trying to be rude, but it's like, I don't you've

1520
01:28:44.600 --> 01:28:47.000
<v Speaker 4>been You've been attending an Orthodox church for four years

1521
01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:49.960
<v Speaker 4>and you they're not familiar with any of those. That

1522
01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:50.479
<v Speaker 4>doesn't make.

1523
01:28:50.359 --> 01:28:51.119
<v Speaker 3>Any sense, I am.

1524
01:28:51.159 --> 01:28:54.439
<v Speaker 15>But what I'm saying is the Canada Scripture by the

1525
01:28:54.479 --> 01:28:56.720
<v Speaker 15>time it was established.

1526
01:28:57.359 --> 01:28:59.880
<v Speaker 4>When do you think that? When do you think that was?

1527
01:29:02.600 --> 01:29:03.239
<v Speaker 11>Third century?

1528
01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:05.640
<v Speaker 3>Four? Yeah? Third century?

1529
01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:07.640
<v Speaker 4>By who? What do you? I don't know what are

1530
01:29:07.680 --> 01:29:08.279
<v Speaker 4>you talking about?

1531
01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:09.000
<v Speaker 3>Who?

1532
01:29:09.039 --> 01:29:11.359
<v Speaker 4>Who listed the Protestant canon district? You don't know that

1533
01:29:11.399 --> 01:29:13.159
<v Speaker 4>the Protestants of a different canon.

1534
01:29:13.479 --> 01:29:16.359
<v Speaker 15>Each Yeah, each father had roughly a different canon, but

1535
01:29:16.359 --> 01:29:18.359
<v Speaker 15>there were some that were there were books that were

1536
01:29:18.359 --> 01:29:19.119
<v Speaker 15>always maintained.

1537
01:29:20.279 --> 01:29:23.520
<v Speaker 4>And so what church father in the first three centuries

1538
01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:27.199
<v Speaker 4>maintained the Protestant list of books name one?

1539
01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:30.960
<v Speaker 11>I guess there is none.

1540
01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:36.880
<v Speaker 4>Correct, So you're requiring for orthodox a position that a

1541
01:29:37.000 --> 01:29:41.239
<v Speaker 4>Protestant doesn't hold to themselves. So that's a double standard

1542
01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:46.920
<v Speaker 4>because there are many things that even Protestants believe that

1543
01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:50.520
<v Speaker 4>were not written as a dispute or a issue in

1544
01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:52.520
<v Speaker 4>the first, second or even third century.

1545
01:29:53.560 --> 01:29:55.840
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, like justification by faith alone, essentially is.

1546
01:29:56.000 --> 01:29:56.760
<v Speaker 3>Would be one of them.

1547
01:29:56.920 --> 01:30:00.399
<v Speaker 4>Well that if you believe, if you read ELSI graph

1548
01:30:00.640 --> 01:30:04.800
<v Speaker 4>wasn't believed by anybody in the first fifteen hundred years.

1549
01:30:07.439 --> 01:30:09.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm not trying to be really but I don't actually

1550
01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:10.960
<v Speaker 4>think you have. I don't actually think you've looked into

1551
01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:13.079
<v Speaker 4>these issues, and I don't act. How have you attended

1552
01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:15.079
<v Speaker 4>North X Church for four years and this is where

1553
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:16.720
<v Speaker 4>you're at? It just doesn't make any sense.

1554
01:30:17.840 --> 01:30:23.279
<v Speaker 15>Well that's why I'm not christ made in essentially it

1555
01:30:23.359 --> 01:30:26.840
<v Speaker 15>is because I just really, ultimately, I'm not trying to

1556
01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:30.199
<v Speaker 15>say that you guys aren't Christians or you're wrong about.

1557
01:30:29.960 --> 01:30:32.680
<v Speaker 4>These things, but you don't. You don't exemplify much knowledge

1558
01:30:32.680 --> 01:30:36.279
<v Speaker 4>about these topics at all. So what were you doing

1559
01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:36.520
<v Speaker 4>this for?

1560
01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:36.640
<v Speaker 17>You?

1561
01:30:36.760 --> 01:30:38.199
<v Speaker 4>Did you go like once every four years?

1562
01:30:38.279 --> 01:30:38.359
<v Speaker 3>Like?

1563
01:30:39.359 --> 01:30:40.239
<v Speaker 11>No, I go every week?

1564
01:30:41.520 --> 01:30:43.880
<v Speaker 4>Okay? An I mean does the priest not know anything?

1565
01:30:43.960 --> 01:30:47.119
<v Speaker 4>Like he's just not good at katechisas or what?

1566
01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:49.640
<v Speaker 11>No, No, they're absolutely great.

1567
01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:50.319
<v Speaker 3>Kiss.

1568
01:30:51.720 --> 01:30:56.079
<v Speaker 15>I What I'm ultimately trying to get at is I

1569
01:30:56.199 --> 01:31:00.800
<v Speaker 15>do not I ultimately think that I don't understand how

1570
01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:04.039
<v Speaker 15>scripture isn't held to a higher authority than the tradition

1571
01:31:04.399 --> 01:31:05.239
<v Speaker 15>of the church.

1572
01:31:05.319 --> 01:31:07.199
<v Speaker 4>But do you understand that when you walk into the liturgy,

1573
01:31:07.239 --> 01:31:09.479
<v Speaker 4>the whole thing is scripture? So what do you? I mean,

1574
01:31:09.479 --> 01:31:11.359
<v Speaker 4>the readings are all scripture, So what are.

1575
01:31:11.279 --> 01:31:11.960
<v Speaker 3>You talking about?

1576
01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:12.840
<v Speaker 11>I love the liturgy?

1577
01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:16.760
<v Speaker 4>Well, that you're you're introducing a false divide between the

1578
01:31:16.800 --> 01:31:21.000
<v Speaker 4>two things. So where do you understand that the Bible

1579
01:31:21.039 --> 01:31:23.479
<v Speaker 4>comes out the Bible comes out of the liturgy. Did

1580
01:31:23.479 --> 01:31:24.359
<v Speaker 4>you even know that.

1581
01:31:26.000 --> 01:31:28.439
<v Speaker 15>The Bible comes out of the liturgy or it's made

1582
01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:29.359
<v Speaker 15>alive in the liturgyes?

1583
01:31:29.800 --> 01:31:32.960
<v Speaker 4>No, it's literally determined to be what it is from

1584
01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:35.039
<v Speaker 4>the liturgy.

1585
01:31:36.159 --> 01:31:38.720
<v Speaker 15>Wouldn't that and wouldn't that imply that the liturgy is

1586
01:31:38.920 --> 01:31:39.640
<v Speaker 15>prior to.

1587
01:31:40.960 --> 01:31:43.920
<v Speaker 4>Well, what does Paul say in First Timothy? That's the

1588
01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:45.239
<v Speaker 4>pillar and ground of truth.

1589
01:31:46.880 --> 01:31:47.319
<v Speaker 3>The church?

1590
01:31:47.840 --> 01:31:54.680
<v Speaker 4>Right? Does he say the books the scrolls? No? Okay,

1591
01:31:54.720 --> 01:31:57.359
<v Speaker 4>So the Church produces the Bible and determines what goes

1592
01:31:57.399 --> 01:31:59.479
<v Speaker 4>into it. And part of the way the Church determined

1593
01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:03.439
<v Speaker 4>that was the electionaries. Electionaries are daily readings. The daily

1594
01:32:03.479 --> 01:32:06.520
<v Speaker 4>readings had a huge role on the Church fathers over

1595
01:32:06.560 --> 01:32:09.479
<v Speaker 4>the centuries, deciding by the time of Trollo and the

1596
01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:12.000
<v Speaker 4>sixth and Seventh Council as to what would be included

1597
01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:16.840
<v Speaker 4>in the canonicals list of scriptures. That canonical list of scriptures, universally,

1598
01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:20.239
<v Speaker 4>except for Saint Jerome, included the Dutero canon, which the

1599
01:32:20.279 --> 01:32:21.560
<v Speaker 4>Protestants rejected.

1600
01:32:23.960 --> 01:32:25.920
<v Speaker 11>Correct, they do reject the Deudio canon.

1601
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:28.399
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so you're saying, come about the premiacy of scripture,

1602
01:32:28.439 --> 01:32:30.399
<v Speaker 4>and you're going you want to go to a group

1603
01:32:30.399 --> 01:32:32.119
<v Speaker 4>that doesn't even have all the scriptures.

1604
01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:35.880
<v Speaker 15>Well, when I think about it, and when I think

1605
01:32:35.880 --> 01:32:38.960
<v Speaker 15>about it, logically, they had the book before they had

1606
01:32:39.000 --> 01:32:42.680
<v Speaker 15>the services. The books came before the liturgy.

1607
01:32:43.640 --> 01:32:46.680
<v Speaker 4>No, that's not true. Totally wrong. Again, you don't know

1608
01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:48.479
<v Speaker 4>what you're talking about. If you read Williams and Anstall

1609
01:32:48.560 --> 01:32:51.800
<v Speaker 4>book on the history of the formation of Christian liturgical

1610
01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:55.239
<v Speaker 4>worship out of the synagogue and temple system, and even

1611
01:32:55.239 --> 01:32:57.199
<v Speaker 4>if you read a Protestant like Hugh Weybrew in his

1612
01:32:57.239 --> 01:33:01.520
<v Speaker 4>book The Byzantine Liturgy, the liturgy predates and precedes the

1613
01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:05.960
<v Speaker 4>the canonical list of scriptures. So you're absolutely wrong.

1614
01:33:06.680 --> 01:33:09.439
<v Speaker 11>Maybe then it might predate the canon list.

1615
01:33:10.520 --> 01:33:12.800
<v Speaker 4>How are you going to have solo scripturia without a canon?

1616
01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:20.279
<v Speaker 15>Well, there was already established scripture before.

1617
01:33:20.119 --> 01:33:23.439
<v Speaker 4>You're missing a point. It doesn't matter. I understand that

1618
01:33:24.119 --> 01:33:26.479
<v Speaker 4>certain churches might have had Paul's Letters or this or

1619
01:33:26.479 --> 01:33:29.800
<v Speaker 4>that gospel, but for sola scriptura to be true, you

1620
01:33:29.880 --> 01:33:33.000
<v Speaker 4>need the entire Protestant sixty six Books of the Bible,

1621
01:33:33.520 --> 01:33:36.600
<v Speaker 4>and even James White in his recent debate with Trent Horne,

1622
01:33:36.640 --> 01:33:39.880
<v Speaker 4>admitted that no, the Church of the first several centuries

1623
01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:42.319
<v Speaker 4>did not operate on a sol scripture of principle because

1624
01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:44.960
<v Speaker 4>they did not have the entirety of the Bible. Do

1625
01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:47.319
<v Speaker 4>you understand you can't have solos?

1626
01:33:48.319 --> 01:33:48.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1627
01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:50.680
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Well then that refutes your previous point.

1628
01:33:52.119 --> 01:33:54.319
<v Speaker 11>I'm not even saying that all you need is scripture.

1629
01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:56.640
<v Speaker 11>I don't even hold to is. So I don't even hold.

1630
01:33:56.720 --> 01:33:59.199
<v Speaker 4>I believe the Orderdrox Church does believe in premuscret that

1631
01:33:59.199 --> 01:34:00.840
<v Speaker 4>the scripture is is primary.

1632
01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:09.800
<v Speaker 11>Okay, okay, okay, yeah, okay. Can we move on and

1633
01:34:09.840 --> 01:34:10.720
<v Speaker 11>can ask you one more question?

1634
01:34:11.880 --> 01:34:12.279
<v Speaker 18>Okay?

1635
01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:18.760
<v Speaker 15>So the Orthodox view of hell, I know that there

1636
01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:21.199
<v Speaker 15>are a lot of differing views on it, because I

1637
01:34:21.199 --> 01:34:24.479
<v Speaker 15>mean to say ultimately what the afterlife is going to

1638
01:34:24.520 --> 01:34:25.560
<v Speaker 15>be like ultimately.

1639
01:34:26.159 --> 01:34:27.800
<v Speaker 3>But one of the.

1640
01:34:27.640 --> 01:34:30.279
<v Speaker 15>Main proponents of what I've heard coming from my own

1641
01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:35.479
<v Speaker 15>parish personally, is that you know, the wicked and the

1642
01:34:35.520 --> 01:34:40.600
<v Speaker 15>righteouster are all raised, We're all going to get new bodies.

1643
01:34:41.279 --> 01:34:43.199
<v Speaker 15>Some are made for destruction and some are made for

1644
01:34:44.279 --> 01:34:48.560
<v Speaker 15>eternal life with Christ right and the same river of

1645
01:34:48.760 --> 01:34:51.840
<v Speaker 15>life that flows from the throne is like fire to

1646
01:34:52.439 --> 01:34:53.239
<v Speaker 15>you know what I'm trying to say.

1647
01:34:53.279 --> 01:34:56.600
<v Speaker 11>You know I'm getting at You've heard this? Is that

1648
01:34:57.279 --> 01:35:00.319
<v Speaker 11>is that view held mainly because.

1649
01:35:02.680 --> 01:35:09.640
<v Speaker 15>I guess, logically speaking, God, God's presence cannot inhabit or

1650
01:35:09.680 --> 01:35:15.840
<v Speaker 15>God cannot sustain I guess a place of existence for

1651
01:35:15.960 --> 01:35:21.840
<v Speaker 15>us in the afterlife where his presence is not so

1652
01:35:21.920 --> 01:35:24.319
<v Speaker 15>he can't create Hell, where he can't create Hell.

1653
01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:28.439
<v Speaker 11>And sustain its existence. If his presence is not there.

1654
01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:32.119
<v Speaker 15>And if you're going to believe that Hell is the

1655
01:35:32.119 --> 01:35:35.560
<v Speaker 15>absence of God's presence, then how can Hell be sustained?

1656
01:35:36.159 --> 01:35:39.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean it's not ultimately determined by a question revolving

1657
01:35:39.760 --> 01:35:42.800
<v Speaker 4>around divine on the presence. It's more so a question

1658
01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:47.199
<v Speaker 4>revolving around Christology and the idea that Jesus assumed universal

1659
01:35:47.279 --> 01:35:49.920
<v Speaker 4>human nature, and that's why all men are resurrected. So

1660
01:35:49.960 --> 01:35:53.479
<v Speaker 4>all men are resurrected regardless of whether they're wicked or righteous,

1661
01:35:53.680 --> 01:35:58.159
<v Speaker 4>according to Paul and verse Crinian's fifteen. And as Christology develops,

1662
01:35:58.680 --> 01:36:00.880
<v Speaker 4>don't mean developed in the Roman sense. I just mean

1663
01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:03.880
<v Speaker 4>that the specification of what the Apostolic faith is, and

1664
01:36:03.920 --> 01:36:09.920
<v Speaker 4>the councils as that specification develops over time, what gets

1665
01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:14.439
<v Speaker 4>worked out theologically is also the effect of Christology and

1666
01:36:14.520 --> 01:36:19.960
<v Speaker 4>a cosmic scope on the esketon. And so Saint Maximus

1667
01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:22.279
<v Speaker 4>is a key figure in that. If you read any

1668
01:36:22.319 --> 01:36:24.479
<v Speaker 4>of the works on Maximus, like the Little Blue Book

1669
01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:29.840
<v Speaker 4>that SBS puts out, there's a whole section on recapitulation

1670
01:36:30.560 --> 01:36:31.359
<v Speaker 4>and if you read it.

1671
01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:32.920
<v Speaker 11>Here Nasty Christ.

1672
01:36:33.560 --> 01:36:38.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. So Aaron As also talks about recapitulation and against heresy.

1673
01:36:38.880 --> 01:36:42.920
<v Speaker 4>So this is the idea that Christ recapitulates everything that

1674
01:36:43.119 --> 01:36:46.880
<v Speaker 4>Adam lost, and Adam's sin didn't just affect him personally

1675
01:36:46.960 --> 01:36:48.520
<v Speaker 4>or his own physical body or his progen and it

1676
01:36:48.600 --> 01:36:51.720
<v Speaker 4>affected the entire universe. So there's a cosmic scope. Because

1677
01:36:51.760 --> 01:36:54.000
<v Speaker 4>man was a steward of all creation, Christ becomes the

1678
01:36:54.039 --> 01:36:56.960
<v Speaker 4>new steward of all creation. Thus the scope of the

1679
01:36:57.000 --> 01:37:00.560
<v Speaker 4>effect is just as universal as Adams fall. And so

1680
01:37:00.600 --> 01:37:04.279
<v Speaker 4>that's a big part of where the Orthodox doctrine of

1681
01:37:04.359 --> 01:37:08.359
<v Speaker 4>river fire being the light of river, of life, water

1682
01:37:08.520 --> 01:37:11.159
<v Speaker 4>life and all that. That's where all that comes. It's

1683
01:37:11.199 --> 01:37:13.800
<v Speaker 4>basically more so crystal logical than it is anything to

1684
01:37:13.880 --> 01:37:16.279
<v Speaker 4>do with whether or not God is omnipresent.

1685
01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:19.520
<v Speaker 11>Okay, Okay, that that's a nice clarification.

1686
01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:24.039
<v Speaker 4>Sure, Okay, yeah, a new time man. I appreciate you

1687
01:37:24.079 --> 01:37:26.119
<v Speaker 4>coming on, and I'm sorry if I got a little

1688
01:37:26.199 --> 01:37:30.399
<v Speaker 4>uh testy there. It's just the the thing with the

1689
01:37:30.439 --> 01:37:32.279
<v Speaker 4>canon is a is a is a thing. I harp

1690
01:37:32.359 --> 01:37:33.720
<v Speaker 4>on a lot. It's just kind of a pet peeve

1691
01:37:33.760 --> 01:37:36.560
<v Speaker 4>of mine. So I'm not being rude to you. I'm

1692
01:37:36.600 --> 01:37:39.359
<v Speaker 4>always I'm looking for people who disagree. If you say

1693
01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:41.279
<v Speaker 4>you're disagreeing and you don't disagree, I'm just gonna be

1694
01:37:41.399 --> 01:37:43.399
<v Speaker 4>gonna be You're not gonna answer your question because it

1695
01:37:43.439 --> 01:37:46.920
<v Speaker 4>gets annoying when people lie and say that they disagree

1696
01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:49.640
<v Speaker 4>just to get to the line. Rick, what's up dude?

1697
01:37:51.399 --> 01:37:56.479
<v Speaker 4>Hey Jamie, Jamie, could you make me a double shot

1698
01:37:56.520 --> 01:38:00.520
<v Speaker 4>of Xpresso what's that slick?

1699
01:38:00.600 --> 01:38:02.279
<v Speaker 3>Rick? Hey? What's up? Jay?

1700
01:38:02.319 --> 01:38:03.159
<v Speaker 11>How you doing, sir.

1701
01:38:04.640 --> 01:38:04.920
<v Speaker 4>Good?

1702
01:38:05.079 --> 01:38:08.399
<v Speaker 3>Can you hear me? All right? All right?

1703
01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:09.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1704
01:38:09.239 --> 01:38:09.920
<v Speaker 3>My issue?

1705
01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:11.840
<v Speaker 18>Well, yesterday I was listening to one of your I

1706
01:38:11.840 --> 01:38:16.800
<v Speaker 18>guess little whatever this is called, and I heard you

1707
01:38:16.840 --> 01:38:18.880
<v Speaker 18>say that if you're not a member of the orthodized.

1708
01:38:18.479 --> 01:38:21.479
<v Speaker 4>Trop all on, just one second to the guy in

1709
01:38:21.520 --> 01:38:24.840
<v Speaker 4>the chat over here on YouTube, not you, Jimmy and.

1710
01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:28.680
<v Speaker 19>The Chad Mode is your ultimate natural pre workout designed

1711
01:38:28.680 --> 01:38:32.239
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01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:37.000
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01:39:47.399 --> 01:39:50.920
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01:39:50.960 --> 01:39:53.079
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01:39:53.119 --> 01:39:57.880
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1733
01:39:57.960 --> 01:40:01.640
<v Speaker 19>amino acids, and herbal extracts. Chad Mode will allow you

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01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:04.600
<v Speaker 19>to fire your boss and mog on anyone who opposes you.

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01:40:05.319 --> 01:40:08.159
<v Speaker 19>Chad Mode will give you a dominant and aggressive edge,

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<v Speaker 19>your day, chad Mode has you covered. It's not just

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<v Speaker 19>Chad Mode not for your average Jim bro zoomer who

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01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:51.840
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1751
01:41:02.159 --> 01:41:05.520
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1752
01:41:05.560 --> 01:41:08.880
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1753
01:41:09.239 --> 01:41:10.880
<v Speaker 19>We will refund your money.

1754
01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:13.119
<v Speaker 4>Chat if you want to. Instead of spamming, you have

1755
01:41:13.159 --> 01:41:15.840
<v Speaker 4>to come to debate. So you're welcome to come and

1756
01:41:15.920 --> 01:41:19.439
<v Speaker 4>chat Jimmy. But to just spam the chat, you're just

1757
01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:22.119
<v Speaker 4>gonna get booted. So go ahead, man, what's upright?

1758
01:41:22.199 --> 01:41:22.600
<v Speaker 3>No problem?

1759
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:23.439
<v Speaker 11>Yeah? I just heard that.

1760
01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:25.640
<v Speaker 18>I think that if you're not an adherent to the

1761
01:41:25.680 --> 01:41:28.760
<v Speaker 18>tenets of the Orthodox Faith, that you know you're going

1762
01:41:28.760 --> 01:41:29.039
<v Speaker 18>to hell.

1763
01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:31.199
<v Speaker 4>I heard you say that.

1764
01:41:31.880 --> 01:41:35.720
<v Speaker 11>Okay, so what what are your parameters? And I'm not

1765
01:41:35.840 --> 01:41:37.359
<v Speaker 11>asking a question, this is not Q and A.

1766
01:41:37.439 --> 01:41:39.039
<v Speaker 18>But I'm sure I'll be able to find something in

1767
01:41:39.079 --> 01:41:42.279
<v Speaker 18>your response, that won't give me an opportunity to argue

1768
01:41:42.319 --> 01:41:45.520
<v Speaker 18>against what you believe. But in terms of your parameters

1769
01:41:45.560 --> 01:41:49.359
<v Speaker 18>for sociology, what is essential for salvation according to the

1770
01:41:49.479 --> 01:41:52.119
<v Speaker 18>Orthodox Faith? According to your understanding, which I'm sure you're

1771
01:41:52.159 --> 01:41:55.079
<v Speaker 18>understanding is limited. I doubt you have in your mind

1772
01:41:55.119 --> 01:41:59.880
<v Speaker 18>the entire you know, canon of understanding from all the synods.

1773
01:42:00.079 --> 01:42:05.039
<v Speaker 18>But according to your limited understanding, what is necessary for salvation?

1774
01:42:05.239 --> 01:42:06.520
<v Speaker 18>Soteriologically speaking?

1775
01:42:06.720 --> 01:42:08.920
<v Speaker 4>Do you have an understanding of all the synods?

1776
01:42:09.760 --> 01:42:11.960
<v Speaker 3>No? I don't, okay, and I think no one does.

1777
01:42:12.279 --> 01:42:13.439
<v Speaker 11>That's going to be part.

1778
01:42:13.199 --> 01:42:15.520
<v Speaker 18>Of the logic which I understand you hold is pre

1779
01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:19.640
<v Speaker 18>eminent in terms of understanding your faith above other things. So,

1780
01:42:20.119 --> 01:42:22.199
<v Speaker 18>but let's just ask the question, if you don't mind,

1781
01:42:22.239 --> 01:42:25.359
<v Speaker 18>if you can answer it, what is essential for salvation?

1782
01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:29.560
<v Speaker 4>Well, for example, there's not a one size fits all

1783
01:42:29.600 --> 01:42:32.720
<v Speaker 4>because we would say, as Orthodox that say, a retarded

1784
01:42:32.760 --> 01:42:36.079
<v Speaker 4>person or a child who doesn't have any advanced level

1785
01:42:36.079 --> 01:42:39.640
<v Speaker 4>of understanding can be saved. Right, So the Orthodox Church

1786
01:42:39.680 --> 01:42:42.439
<v Speaker 4>we baptize children then slow people as well, so they

1787
01:42:42.439 --> 01:42:47.319
<v Speaker 4>can be baptized and saved without extensive amounts of knowledge.

1788
01:42:47.439 --> 01:42:50.000
<v Speaker 4>I think Jesus says, you know to who much is given,

1789
01:42:50.039 --> 01:42:53.199
<v Speaker 4>much is required. So in those cases I would say

1790
01:42:53.359 --> 01:42:56.840
<v Speaker 4>that's why. Ultimately, on an individual basis, as Orthodox we

1791
01:42:56.960 --> 01:43:00.920
<v Speaker 4>say that we leave that up to God. But for

1792
01:43:01.039 --> 01:43:03.760
<v Speaker 4>what we go by in terms of public profession, you

1793
01:43:03.880 --> 01:43:06.720
<v Speaker 4>do have to be joined to the mystical Body of Christ,

1794
01:43:06.800 --> 01:43:09.479
<v Speaker 4>which I do believe. The parameters are that that's identical

1795
01:43:09.520 --> 01:43:12.800
<v Speaker 4>to the Orthodox Church. But that's not hold on, that's

1796
01:43:12.840 --> 01:43:17.560
<v Speaker 4>not like necessarily limited to some building or some space.

1797
01:43:17.640 --> 01:43:21.039
<v Speaker 4>In other words, let's say a Muslim dude, let me

1798
01:43:21.039 --> 01:43:23.439
<v Speaker 4>finish it, I'll let you talk. So let's say a

1799
01:43:23.520 --> 01:43:26.760
<v Speaker 4>Muslim dude like lives in Saudi Arabia, doesn't anything about Christianity,

1800
01:43:26.800 --> 01:43:29.800
<v Speaker 4>and he starts listening on the internet to Orthodox stuff.

1801
01:43:29.840 --> 01:43:32.439
<v Speaker 4>And let's say he gets down and prays and accepts

1802
01:43:32.520 --> 01:43:34.439
<v Speaker 4>Jesus something like that, but he has no access to

1803
01:43:35.159 --> 01:43:37.560
<v Speaker 4>baptism or something like that, and then he dies that night.

1804
01:43:38.520 --> 01:43:40.720
<v Speaker 4>Could he be said? Absolutely? And the thief on the

1805
01:43:40.720 --> 01:43:43.680
<v Speaker 4>Cross is an example of that. So it really depends

1806
01:43:43.720 --> 01:43:48.039
<v Speaker 4>on that's extra normative. I think God has the ability

1807
01:43:48.079 --> 01:43:50.800
<v Speaker 4>to through extra normative means, like the guy the thief

1808
01:43:50.840 --> 01:43:52.920
<v Speaker 4>on the Cross, to join people to the mystical body

1809
01:43:53.279 --> 01:43:55.680
<v Speaker 4>but I do also affirm that the Orthodox Church is

1810
01:43:55.680 --> 01:43:56.760
<v Speaker 4>the mystical body of Christ.

1811
01:43:57.840 --> 01:43:59.960
<v Speaker 18>Okay, And when you say a mystical body of Christ,

1812
01:44:00.199 --> 01:44:01.199
<v Speaker 18>what does that mean.

1813
01:44:03.199 --> 01:44:04.680
<v Speaker 3>That? Well, because the.

1814
01:44:04.640 --> 01:44:06.520
<v Speaker 18>Mystical definition that kind of just.

1815
01:44:06.479 --> 01:44:08.079
<v Speaker 11>For me that throws me off.

1816
01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:10.520
<v Speaker 4>Like that's just that the ald term. It doesn't it

1817
01:44:10.520 --> 01:44:12.520
<v Speaker 4>doesn't ever to do with a mystical definition. It just

1818
01:44:12.560 --> 01:44:16.680
<v Speaker 4>means that the extension of the incarnation is the Church.

1819
01:44:16.840 --> 01:44:19.840
<v Speaker 4>It is the visible, institutional Orthodox Church, which is the

1820
01:44:19.880 --> 01:44:23.079
<v Speaker 4>continuation of His body. Say that same much, let me finish.

1821
01:44:23.119 --> 01:44:26.720
<v Speaker 4>According to Paul first Corinthians twelve, when he talks about

1822
01:44:26.960 --> 01:44:30.439
<v Speaker 4>the church at Corinthie says, you are Christ's body, eyes, hands, feet,

1823
01:44:30.479 --> 01:44:34.000
<v Speaker 4>et cetera. We believe that we really are through baptism,

1824
01:44:34.119 --> 01:44:35.600
<v Speaker 4>the extension of the incarnation.

1825
01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:38.720
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, with the contextually, what he was actually talking about

1826
01:44:38.720 --> 01:44:41.800
<v Speaker 18>in one Corinthians twelve was to not elevate one part

1827
01:44:41.840 --> 01:44:44.920
<v Speaker 18>of the body over another, that the entire body was essential.

1828
01:44:44.960 --> 01:44:48.079
<v Speaker 18>So I would cite you as being incorrect there on

1829
01:44:48.159 --> 01:44:50.760
<v Speaker 18>your contextualization of that scripture and ulizing it for the

1830
01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:51.760
<v Speaker 18>mystic body of Christ.

1831
01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:55.199
<v Speaker 4>So you're a gnostic who doesn't believe in the incarnation

1832
01:44:55.239 --> 01:44:55.800
<v Speaker 4>that's what you're saying.

1833
01:44:55.840 --> 01:44:57.960
<v Speaker 18>Now, I believe in the incarnation that what I said,

1834
01:44:57.960 --> 01:45:00.000
<v Speaker 18>and you're you're setting up a straw man right there.

1835
01:45:00.359 --> 01:45:02.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, no, your your exidesis tells me that your position

1836
01:45:02.920 --> 01:45:04.680
<v Speaker 4>is what Protestant? Are you Protestant?

1837
01:45:05.319 --> 01:45:08.000
<v Speaker 18>I no, I'm actually pre Protestant. I would be like Brien,

1838
01:45:08.239 --> 01:45:09.720
<v Speaker 18>you know what, because.

1839
01:45:10.880 --> 01:45:11.279
<v Speaker 4>Heretic?

1840
01:45:11.399 --> 01:45:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Okay, no, I'm not a heretic.

1841
01:45:13.199 --> 01:45:15.520
<v Speaker 4>But there is no such thing as a Brian church

1842
01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:17.199
<v Speaker 4>doesn't Here's the.

1843
01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:18.720
<v Speaker 18>Thing, this is, this is what I'm trying to say.

1844
01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:21.560
<v Speaker 18>I'm trying to say that the first century church you're

1845
01:45:21.640 --> 01:45:26.560
<v Speaker 18>you're not that you're a you're from what I'm not.

1846
01:45:26.479 --> 01:45:29.359
<v Speaker 4>That that doesn't exist. There is no such thing as

1847
01:45:30.039 --> 01:45:32.079
<v Speaker 4>you have. You're not that there is no boer in church.

1848
01:45:32.119 --> 01:45:32.680
<v Speaker 4>You made it up.

1849
01:45:33.119 --> 01:45:34.600
<v Speaker 11>Let me make it. Let me make another point.

1850
01:45:34.640 --> 01:45:37.159
<v Speaker 18>See Rachel laughing. You know I sense that there is

1851
01:45:37.199 --> 01:45:38.479
<v Speaker 18>a lack of the fruit of this.

1852
01:45:38.680 --> 01:45:40.640
<v Speaker 4>Okay, yeah, here we go. Yeah, well you should be

1853
01:45:40.880 --> 01:45:42.960
<v Speaker 4>thought of because you're ridiculous.

1854
01:45:43.399 --> 01:45:44.319
<v Speaker 11>Okay, Well here's the thing.

1855
01:45:44.399 --> 01:45:45.119
<v Speaker 3>All right, here's the thing.

1856
01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:47.520
<v Speaker 18>See that type of comment, when you go into the

1857
01:45:47.560 --> 01:45:50.880
<v Speaker 18>ad homin and attacks, you basically rendered any of.

1858
01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:54.800
<v Speaker 4>Your because nobody should listen to you, because nobody believes

1859
01:45:54.840 --> 01:45:59.359
<v Speaker 4>in a delusion on this channel. What I said, because

1860
01:45:59.359 --> 01:46:01.760
<v Speaker 4>nobody is gonna listen to somebody who believes that they're

1861
01:46:01.800 --> 01:46:05.159
<v Speaker 4>reinventing a first century church. That means you're in delusion.

1862
01:46:05.359 --> 01:46:08.159
<v Speaker 4>So we're not gonna argue with you. You're a waste of time,

1863
01:46:08.199 --> 01:46:11.239
<v Speaker 4>You're a delusion. That was not mean, that was correct.

1864
01:46:12.359 --> 01:46:14.319
<v Speaker 4>So notice how nice I was to that guy, answering

1865
01:46:14.319 --> 01:46:16.439
<v Speaker 4>his questions, and then he comes with this total quackery.

1866
01:46:16.800 --> 01:46:21.640
<v Speaker 4>Who's next? You have to raise your hand and we

1867
01:46:21.720 --> 01:46:25.720
<v Speaker 4>will go to you. I want to hear actual arguments.

1868
01:46:25.720 --> 01:46:28.359
<v Speaker 4>I'm not gonna hear you yapping at me about the

1869
01:46:28.399 --> 01:46:33.119
<v Speaker 4>exegesis one Grindians twelve. How's that going to prove the

1870
01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:37.000
<v Speaker 4>Barean Church? You misinterpreted French Criadian's twin. I'm a member

1871
01:46:37.000 --> 01:46:40.039
<v Speaker 4>of the original Brian Church. There is no original Brian

1872
01:46:40.159 --> 01:46:47.399
<v Speaker 4>Church doesn't exist. You're in a cult. Okay, Alex, you

1873
01:46:47.720 --> 01:46:49.079
<v Speaker 4>are disagreeing. What's up?

1874
01:46:49.119 --> 01:46:49.279
<v Speaker 3>Man?

1875
01:46:50.279 --> 01:46:52.720
<v Speaker 4>Oh, we got a philanthropists playboy, he's a mac daddy.

1876
01:46:53.520 --> 01:46:54.640
<v Speaker 4>He's gonna set us straight.

1877
01:46:55.800 --> 01:47:00.239
<v Speaker 20>Yo, No, no, no, I have So I came across

1878
01:47:01.039 --> 01:47:05.079
<v Speaker 20>an argument from the Muslims I've never heard of before,

1879
01:47:05.119 --> 01:47:06.760
<v Speaker 20>and I'm curious your take on it.

1880
01:47:06.840 --> 01:47:11.279
<v Speaker 3>His argument is because Christ, can you hear me?

1881
01:47:11.600 --> 01:47:11.800
<v Speaker 4>Yep?

1882
01:47:12.479 --> 01:47:12.800
<v Speaker 3>Okay?

1883
01:47:12.840 --> 01:47:16.159
<v Speaker 21>Because Christ took on a fully human nature and he

1884
01:47:16.239 --> 01:47:19.640
<v Speaker 21>has that in eternity right, he's bound to it for eternity,

1885
01:47:21.359 --> 01:47:25.520
<v Speaker 21>he says. He said, how is that not idolatry because

1886
01:47:26.439 --> 01:47:28.199
<v Speaker 21>you can't separate the person from the nature.

1887
01:47:31.279 --> 01:47:35.239
<v Speaker 4>Well, Saint Cyril addressed this objection. It's an objection that

1888
01:47:35.319 --> 01:47:38.600
<v Speaker 4>the story has had. And Cyril's answer is that the

1889
01:47:39.279 --> 01:47:42.039
<v Speaker 4>we're not worshiping the humanity for the sake of humanity.

1890
01:47:42.079 --> 01:47:46.359
<v Speaker 4>We worship the one Christ hypostatically united to the human

1891
01:47:46.479 --> 01:47:49.000
<v Speaker 4>nature that he took on. So it's the body of

1892
01:47:49.079 --> 01:47:51.359
<v Speaker 4>the god Man. We're not worshiping his body.

1893
01:47:54.000 --> 01:47:54.359
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

1894
01:47:54.439 --> 01:47:56.800
<v Speaker 20>So I said something very similar to that, and he

1895
01:47:57.000 --> 01:47:59.680
<v Speaker 20>kept on reiterating that because it's a property that the

1896
01:47:59.720 --> 01:48:03.560
<v Speaker 20>person has and we claim to worship Christ as a whole.

1897
01:48:04.039 --> 01:48:05.680
<v Speaker 3>He couldn't seem to get past that.

1898
01:48:06.479 --> 01:48:09.560
<v Speaker 20>I was thinking that it was probably just him having

1899
01:48:09.560 --> 01:48:12.680
<v Speaker 20>a lack of person in nature distinction is that?

1900
01:48:12.760 --> 01:48:14.439
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I think that's part of it, But also,

1901
01:48:14.880 --> 01:48:18.479
<v Speaker 4>like the point of the hypeset of union is that

1902
01:48:19.279 --> 01:48:23.720
<v Speaker 4>the whole Christ is what's worshiped, not parts. And that's

1903
01:48:23.720 --> 01:48:26.600
<v Speaker 4>what ephesis reiterates against the stories, because the story says,

1904
01:48:26.640 --> 01:48:31.239
<v Speaker 4>if you worship the humanity, you're worshiping a man and

1905
01:48:31.279 --> 01:48:34.439
<v Speaker 4>you're an idolator. And so the response is that there

1906
01:48:34.520 --> 01:48:37.479
<v Speaker 4>is no dividing of the worship that we direct to Christ.

1907
01:48:37.920 --> 01:48:39.760
<v Speaker 4>The worship that we direct to Christ is to the

1908
01:48:39.760 --> 01:48:43.960
<v Speaker 4>divine person in his human nature, so that the subject is

1909
01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:46.439
<v Speaker 4>fully divine from all eternity. The second person that God

1910
01:48:46.439 --> 01:48:49.560
<v Speaker 4>had and that nature that he assumed, which is deified,

1911
01:48:49.760 --> 01:48:53.640
<v Speaker 4>is also now taken up into his possession, and it

1912
01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:56.720
<v Speaker 4>has become his own. And so because it is his own,

1913
01:48:57.119 --> 01:48:59.199
<v Speaker 4>we worship it as the body of the God Man

1914
01:48:59.239 --> 01:49:01.800
<v Speaker 4>and not a body, right.

1915
01:49:01.720 --> 01:49:03.520
<v Speaker 3>And because he took it on, it wouldn't be.

1916
01:49:03.520 --> 01:49:07.920
<v Speaker 4>Idolatry that And also Muslims are really in no better

1917
01:49:07.920 --> 01:49:10.960
<v Speaker 4>position because they can't figure out if they worship and

1918
01:49:11.720 --> 01:49:15.920
<v Speaker 4>if there's an eternal Qur'an next to a lot as well.

1919
01:49:16.000 --> 01:49:18.279
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, exactly, all right, that was it. I appreciate it.

1920
01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:23.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, good question. I mean, the anathemas of ethicis if

1921
01:49:23.520 --> 01:49:27.800
<v Speaker 4>you read through them, they're actually that's funny, because that's

1922
01:49:28.039 --> 01:49:31.880
<v Speaker 4>I wonder if Nestorius, I mean, if you read even

1923
01:49:31.960 --> 01:49:36.199
<v Speaker 4>today's academics, they'll point out that Islam was influenced by

1924
01:49:37.279 --> 01:49:39.960
<v Speaker 4>Arianism and Astorianism and the Talmud and so forth and

1925
01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:43.239
<v Speaker 4>so on. So I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't

1926
01:49:43.279 --> 01:49:47.680
<v Speaker 4>a connection between Nestorius's argumentation and what you hear Muslims

1927
01:49:47.680 --> 01:49:52.199
<v Speaker 4>make Ea Christian Ea, what's up?

1928
01:49:56.479 --> 01:49:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Hello, m.

1929
01:50:00.640 --> 01:50:05.319
<v Speaker 16>Oh hi, thanks for having me on. So my question

1930
01:50:05.399 --> 01:50:11.359
<v Speaker 16>actually follows from that. It's somewhat similar. So I don't

1931
01:50:11.560 --> 01:50:18.680
<v Speaker 16>quite understand the difference between the Eastern Orthodox position and

1932
01:50:19.000 --> 01:50:25.119
<v Speaker 16>Oriental or copted and regards to Christ's nature.

1933
01:50:25.439 --> 01:50:28.079
<v Speaker 4>Okay, well that's a question, and I don't mind the question.

1934
01:50:28.479 --> 01:50:31.000
<v Speaker 4>But we're doing an ongoing series about that that you

1935
01:50:31.039 --> 01:50:33.520
<v Speaker 4>can watch on my channel. This is for people who

1936
01:50:33.560 --> 01:50:35.760
<v Speaker 4>disagree today, so you can go to my channel and

1937
01:50:35.800 --> 01:50:38.800
<v Speaker 4>watch part one in part two of Oriental Orthodoxy Refuted,

1938
01:50:39.159 --> 01:50:42.000
<v Speaker 4>where we spend about six hours addressing that topic, and

1939
01:50:42.039 --> 01:50:45.520
<v Speaker 4>we have many, many more installments coming. So I'm looking

1940
01:50:45.560 --> 01:50:47.600
<v Speaker 4>for people who disagrees, So raise your hand in the

1941
01:50:47.640 --> 01:50:50.479
<v Speaker 4>chat if you disagree. If you're coming with a Q

1942
01:50:50.640 --> 01:50:53.439
<v Speaker 4>and a I'm just I'm not going to answer the questions.

1943
01:50:53.680 --> 01:50:58.640
<v Speaker 4>So let's see. Next up is Alex.

1944
01:51:03.199 --> 01:51:04.000
<v Speaker 3>You know what's up? Jay?

1945
01:51:04.319 --> 01:51:08.640
<v Speaker 14>Hey, Okay, I'm probably going to disagree with you on

1946
01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:10.359
<v Speaker 14>one question, but can I just get this off my

1947
01:51:10.399 --> 01:51:11.840
<v Speaker 14>head first?

1948
01:51:11.880 --> 01:51:12.520
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if you.

1949
01:51:12.479 --> 01:51:15.359
<v Speaker 14>Saw Charlie Kirk talking to Michael Noles.

1950
01:51:15.680 --> 01:51:17.479
<v Speaker 4>I heard they had a debate. I've not seen it.

1951
01:51:18.159 --> 01:51:19.399
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, he was making a point.

1952
01:51:19.439 --> 01:51:22.399
<v Speaker 14>He made it against Catholics, but would follow for you two,

1953
01:51:22.560 --> 01:51:26.119
<v Speaker 14>how we take Maccabee's but the Jews don't.

1954
01:51:26.800 --> 01:51:29.800
<v Speaker 3>So why, Well, Jews don't.

1955
01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:31.640
<v Speaker 4>Just Jews don't believe the New Testament.

1956
01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:34.399
<v Speaker 3>So what That's what I said. But so yeah, so

1957
01:51:34.439 --> 01:51:35.479
<v Speaker 3>that's just a stupid argument.

1958
01:51:35.560 --> 01:51:38.359
<v Speaker 4>It is a stupid And also, the Apostles site and

1959
01:51:38.439 --> 01:51:42.720
<v Speaker 4>utilize uh dider canonical texts quite often. The subtuo agent

1960
01:51:42.760 --> 01:51:46.560
<v Speaker 4>which the Apostles usually used, included the dider Ken.

1961
01:51:49.199 --> 01:51:54.479
<v Speaker 14>Okay, nice, second, I want to know your take. I'm

1962
01:51:54.520 --> 01:51:57.479
<v Speaker 14>sure you've deep dived the Fatima.

1963
01:51:58.600 --> 01:52:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Case. Like the miracle. You believe that was a real miracle.

1964
01:52:03.119 --> 01:52:03.800
<v Speaker 4>I do not know.

1965
01:52:06.119 --> 01:52:06.279
<v Speaker 3>Why.

1966
01:52:06.560 --> 01:52:09.600
<v Speaker 4>Even if it was a miracle, it wouldn't have anything

1967
01:52:09.600 --> 01:52:12.079
<v Speaker 4>to do with whether or not we should follow it.

1968
01:52:12.119 --> 01:52:14.319
<v Speaker 4>I mean, what does Jesus say about signs and wonders?

1969
01:52:14.720 --> 01:52:19.439
<v Speaker 4>Wicked adulterous generation seeks signs and wonders. Every religion proclaims

1970
01:52:19.479 --> 01:52:21.840
<v Speaker 4>signs and wonders. Are you familiar with Mary's so called

1971
01:52:21.840 --> 01:52:22.880
<v Speaker 4>apparition at Zaytun?

1972
01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:25.840
<v Speaker 3>No, I haven't heard that one.

1973
01:52:25.880 --> 01:52:28.960
<v Speaker 4>So if you look up the Zytoon apparition in Egypt,

1974
01:52:28.960 --> 01:52:33.079
<v Speaker 4>this is the most famous recent apparition. Thousands of Egyptians

1975
01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:37.199
<v Speaker 4>saw supposedly the Virgin Marya appear over a Coptic church

1976
01:52:37.279 --> 01:52:41.479
<v Speaker 4>in Egypt and Zytune does that prove Coptic Christianity truth?

1977
01:52:44.079 --> 01:52:47.600
<v Speaker 4>Probably not know right, So Mary and apparitions cannot be

1978
01:52:48.359 --> 01:52:51.399
<v Speaker 4>the thing that proves the true Church. I do believe

1979
01:52:51.439 --> 01:52:54.920
<v Speaker 4>that the true Church will have miracles and things like this,

1980
01:52:55.079 --> 01:52:58.159
<v Speaker 4>that's definitely they will accompany the true faith. But you

1981
01:52:58.239 --> 01:53:01.760
<v Speaker 4>can't make those signs in one there's the thing that

1982
01:53:01.960 --> 01:53:05.800
<v Speaker 4>proves the true faith because every group claims and has

1983
01:53:05.840 --> 01:53:12.359
<v Speaker 4>these theories and operation claims. Also, my specific theory on

1984
01:53:14.159 --> 01:53:16.760
<v Speaker 4>that is that I wrote an essay on this maybe

1985
01:53:16.800 --> 01:53:18.399
<v Speaker 4>ten years ago. If you go to my website, type

1986
01:53:18.439 --> 01:53:22.399
<v Speaker 4>mbattament will come up. My theory is that this was

1987
01:53:22.439 --> 01:53:24.840
<v Speaker 4>part of the geopolitics of the time that they were

1988
01:53:24.840 --> 01:53:30.079
<v Speaker 4>looking to and were already prepping for World War One,

1989
01:53:30.199 --> 01:53:32.520
<v Speaker 4>and so they were looking for this enemy that they

1990
01:53:32.520 --> 01:53:38.159
<v Speaker 4>wanted to really hype up. Also, the West exported, particularly

1991
01:53:39.119 --> 01:53:43.960
<v Speaker 4>certain groups and people exported Marxism in Bolshevism to Russia.

1992
01:53:44.039 --> 01:53:48.760
<v Speaker 4>And Mary curiously doesn't mention that. Mary seems to say

1993
01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:52.239
<v Speaker 4>the things that literally the Anglo American establishment said and

1994
01:53:52.279 --> 01:53:55.000
<v Speaker 4>wanted to be the case. So I do not believe

1995
01:53:55.239 --> 01:53:58.560
<v Speaker 4>that Mary was working with the banking elite to try

1996
01:53:58.600 --> 01:54:00.880
<v Speaker 4>to destroy Sorry.

1997
01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:06.920
<v Speaker 14>Right, but then those girls, like when the main miracle happened, right,

1998
01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:09.600
<v Speaker 14>there's like fifty thousand people or something that saw it.

1999
01:54:09.640 --> 01:54:12.199
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Well, I mean there's around that many at Zaytun Egypt.

2000
01:54:12.239 --> 01:54:13.760
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know what I'm saying.

2001
01:54:13.760 --> 01:54:17.279
<v Speaker 14>The girls had like six encounters before that main one.

2002
01:54:18.199 --> 01:54:20.079
<v Speaker 3>Doesn't that add a little more validity to it?

2003
01:54:20.880 --> 01:54:24.359
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean there were there were there were very

2004
01:54:24.399 --> 01:54:27.600
<v Speaker 4>famous fake news stories even prior to this. Look up

2005
01:54:27.640 --> 01:54:32.840
<v Speaker 4>the Great Moon hoax in the eighteen seventies or eighties.

2006
01:54:33.279 --> 01:54:38.800
<v Speaker 4>So because there's some news footage or a newspaper claim

2007
01:54:38.840 --> 01:54:43.039
<v Speaker 4>out of Portugal, I mean one hundred years plus years ago. Look,

2008
01:54:43.079 --> 01:54:45.119
<v Speaker 4>how is that proof that? I mean says, who, how

2009
01:54:45.119 --> 01:54:45.680
<v Speaker 4>do we know that?

2010
01:54:47.800 --> 01:54:51.119
<v Speaker 14>No, I'm just I'm just saying they talked about before

2011
01:54:51.199 --> 01:54:54.039
<v Speaker 14>the actual big event happened. They were saying a big

2012
01:54:54.079 --> 01:54:56.319
<v Speaker 14>events can happen. That's why people were waiting there.

2013
01:54:56.680 --> 01:54:58.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but that's exactly what would happen if you're going

2014
01:54:58.720 --> 01:55:00.279
<v Speaker 4>to stage an event like that. Have you looked into

2015
01:55:00.279 --> 01:55:02.680
<v Speaker 4>the CIA's history of staging these kinds of events.

2016
01:55:04.920 --> 01:55:07.159
<v Speaker 3>See this where we're going to disagree.

2017
01:55:06.640 --> 01:55:10.920
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, you can believe or not believe whatever

2018
01:55:11.000 --> 01:55:13.640
<v Speaker 4>you want. You're saying the CIA doesn't stage religious events.

2019
01:55:13.800 --> 01:55:16.960
<v Speaker 14>No, I mean, well, I haven't heard actually anything about

2020
01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:20.479
<v Speaker 14>religious events, but I know CIA is fucked up, right.

2021
01:55:20.520 --> 01:55:23.520
<v Speaker 4>So I covered Michael Graziano's book, which is right over

2022
01:55:23.560 --> 01:55:25.119
<v Speaker 4>on the sheltered a whole talk on it where the

2023
01:55:25.159 --> 01:55:28.920
<v Speaker 4>CIA was discussing staging the Second Coming under Ed Lansdale.

2024
01:55:29.439 --> 01:55:38.039
<v Speaker 4>During the Cold War, CIA famously staged the Chupacabra vampire

2025
01:55:38.159 --> 01:55:45.119
<v Speaker 4>stuff in the Philippines to in this situation, the Hook Rebellion.

2026
01:55:45.560 --> 01:55:50.079
<v Speaker 4>They staged religious miracles there. They've staged stuff in Latin

2027
01:55:50.119 --> 01:55:53.920
<v Speaker 4>South America to promote Catholicism. So they actually have a

2028
01:55:53.960 --> 01:55:58.319
<v Speaker 4>well documented from academic text history of staging these kinds

2029
01:55:58.319 --> 01:56:00.000
<v Speaker 4>of religious apparition events.

2030
01:56:01.159 --> 01:56:02.199
<v Speaker 3>So what do you think then.

2031
01:56:02.359 --> 01:56:05.119
<v Speaker 4>By the way, I'm not saying that the CIA stage Fatima.

2032
01:56:05.159 --> 01:56:07.279
<v Speaker 4>There was no CIA at the times. Also, some idiots

2033
01:56:07.319 --> 01:56:09.840
<v Speaker 4>gonna say I'm saying I'm not saying that, but I'm

2034
01:56:09.880 --> 01:56:14.479
<v Speaker 4>saying that there have been a known large scale religious

2035
01:56:15.680 --> 01:56:18.880
<v Speaker 4>forgeries and frauds that have existed for centuries and millennia.

2036
01:56:19.760 --> 01:56:22.000
<v Speaker 4>It is not without it is not outside of the

2037
01:56:22.039 --> 01:56:25.520
<v Speaker 4>pale of in my view, the Western establishment, even at

2038
01:56:25.560 --> 01:56:28.560
<v Speaker 4>the time of Fatima, to stage that type of an event.

2039
01:56:29.239 --> 01:56:32.159
<v Speaker 4>Which again, is there a direct proof of staging. No,

2040
01:56:32.239 --> 01:56:36.119
<v Speaker 4>but there is a pattern of intelligence stagency staging going

2041
01:56:36.159 --> 01:56:39.399
<v Speaker 4>back earlier than the CIA, into the OSS, into the Inquiry,

2042
01:56:40.720 --> 01:56:44.960
<v Speaker 4>so it is possible. In fact, even tradcat Michael Jones

2043
01:56:45.239 --> 01:56:48.479
<v Speaker 4>believes that Megi Gore is a CIA sigh up that

2044
01:56:48.520 --> 01:56:51.439
<v Speaker 4>they stage. So I just go one step further. If

2045
01:56:51.439 --> 01:56:53.319
<v Speaker 4>Megia Gory can be staged by the CIA for the

2046
01:56:53.359 --> 01:56:57.760
<v Speaker 4>Cold War, as Emichael Jones emits, so can Fatima for

2047
01:56:58.239 --> 01:56:59.960
<v Speaker 4>the West pre World War One?

2048
01:57:01.800 --> 01:57:05.560
<v Speaker 14>Okay, I see that just another kind of on topic here,

2049
01:57:05.600 --> 01:57:09.039
<v Speaker 14>So then would like when Paul talks about testing the spirits,

2050
01:57:09.119 --> 01:57:12.840
<v Speaker 14>could it then could they then fake a religious experience

2051
01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:16.920
<v Speaker 14>that like aligns with the spirit, So we really wouldn't

2052
01:57:16.960 --> 01:57:20.439
<v Speaker 14>be able to tell like like at all.

2053
01:57:20.560 --> 01:57:23.239
<v Speaker 4>We'll take magic Gory for example. I mean, if magic

2054
01:57:23.239 --> 01:57:27.720
<v Speaker 4>Gorey is a fraud, then that has duped millions and

2055
01:57:27.720 --> 01:57:31.640
<v Speaker 4>millions of Roman Catholics and you know Pilgrims, and so

2056
01:57:31.800 --> 01:57:33.920
<v Speaker 4>what do you, like, what do you mean by aligning

2057
01:57:33.960 --> 01:57:35.640
<v Speaker 4>with the spirit? I understand, Like I'm.

2058
01:57:35.479 --> 01:57:39.720
<v Speaker 14>Saying like like false lights, like for example, like muhammad Cave,

2059
01:57:40.079 --> 01:57:42.680
<v Speaker 14>Like if false lights come, we're told to test the

2060
01:57:42.720 --> 01:57:45.359
<v Speaker 14>spirits to make sure they're actually from God, not like

2061
01:57:45.439 --> 01:57:47.560
<v Speaker 14>a devil of light or something.

2062
01:57:47.640 --> 01:57:50.199
<v Speaker 4>We don't even know that this was actually some miraculous event.

2063
01:57:50.239 --> 01:57:52.520
<v Speaker 4>It could be completely whole, wholesale staged.

2064
01:57:53.199 --> 01:57:56.319
<v Speaker 14>No, I'm just saying hype like off Fatima, Now, like

2065
01:57:56.640 --> 01:57:59.239
<v Speaker 14>could we ever know then like if they can stage

2066
01:57:59.279 --> 01:58:03.479
<v Speaker 14>the event to line up with what the spirit would hypothetically, Well.

2067
01:58:03.319 --> 01:58:05.439
<v Speaker 4>This is what I'm saying, is that the New Testament

2068
01:58:05.439 --> 01:58:08.960
<v Speaker 4>I think, tells us not to go by signs and wonders.

2069
01:58:09.039 --> 01:58:13.880
<v Speaker 4>The stricture is you go by the prior revelation, and

2070
01:58:13.960 --> 01:58:17.319
<v Speaker 4>that's what judges any future so called revelation, for example,

2071
01:58:17.359 --> 01:58:22.039
<v Speaker 4>Deuteronomy thirteen, Deuteronomy eighteen, and Galatians one, which Galatians is

2072
01:58:22.079 --> 01:58:26.439
<v Speaker 4>actually following in consort with Deuteronomy thirteen and eighteen about

2073
01:58:26.439 --> 01:58:29.880
<v Speaker 4>the principle of how you judge so called profits, miracles, signs,

2074
01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:33.359
<v Speaker 4>and wonders is whether they line up with previous revelation.

2075
01:58:33.479 --> 01:58:36.039
<v Speaker 4>That's the test. So I'm not sure what you're talking

2076
01:58:36.079 --> 01:58:39.800
<v Speaker 4>about with how how could they do you? What do

2077
01:58:39.800 --> 01:58:40.079
<v Speaker 4>you mean?

2078
01:58:41.239 --> 01:58:43.960
<v Speaker 14>Like, I'm just like if a spirit comes to you,

2079
01:58:44.319 --> 01:58:47.399
<v Speaker 14>unless I'm misinterpreting it, like I say, like a light

2080
01:58:48.239 --> 01:58:53.960
<v Speaker 14>light comes to you posing as an angel something right, right, right,

2081
01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:55.720
<v Speaker 14>You're supposed to test that spirit?

2082
01:58:56.159 --> 01:58:57.640
<v Speaker 4>How although how do you do that?

2083
01:58:59.239 --> 01:59:02.239
<v Speaker 14>Maybe like ask stuff that would line up with the gospel.

2084
01:59:02.279 --> 01:59:03.920
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, Like, well, that's what I'm saying. So

2085
01:59:04.840 --> 01:59:08.720
<v Speaker 4>we already have in Deuterami thirteen, deuteronymy eighteen, and Galatians

2086
01:59:08.800 --> 01:59:11.520
<v Speaker 4>one the answer to the very question that you're raising,

2087
01:59:11.560 --> 01:59:15.560
<v Speaker 4>which is, if there arises among you a prophet, a

2088
01:59:15.640 --> 01:59:19.359
<v Speaker 4>dreamer of dreams, signs, and wonders, and it does not

2089
01:59:19.479 --> 01:59:22.479
<v Speaker 4>come to pass, then you know that they're lying, and

2090
01:59:22.520 --> 01:59:25.279
<v Speaker 4>you don't follow whatever they're telling you to do because

2091
01:59:25.319 --> 01:59:28.079
<v Speaker 4>the Lord is testing you. The same type of statement

2092
01:59:28.119 --> 01:59:30.880
<v Speaker 4>is stated in Douronmy eighteen. And then when Paul says

2093
01:59:30.920 --> 01:59:35.079
<v Speaker 4>in Galatians one, you do not go after any sign

2094
01:59:35.159 --> 01:59:37.800
<v Speaker 4>or wonder, angel or whatever, because Satan can appear as

2095
01:59:37.800 --> 01:59:41.880
<v Speaker 4>an angel light, right, So signs and wonders are secondary too. Revelation,

2096
01:59:42.039 --> 01:59:45.000
<v Speaker 4>is what I'm trying to say. So that's the test

2097
01:59:45.079 --> 01:59:47.560
<v Speaker 4>that we have. That's how you discern the spirits. As

2098
01:59:47.560 --> 01:59:52.239
<v Speaker 4>Paul later says, And in my view, Fatama, for example,

2099
01:59:54.359 --> 01:59:56.960
<v Speaker 4>where was this conversion of Russia to the Immaculate Heart.

2100
01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:00.600
<v Speaker 4>Now they'll say, oh, well, the pope didn't do this, right, Well,

2101
02:00:00.600 --> 02:00:07.119
<v Speaker 4>the Pope has supposedly consecrated Russia multiple times and Russia

2102
02:00:07.159 --> 02:00:11.800
<v Speaker 4>has not converted to Papism. So the whole mythos of

2103
02:00:11.800 --> 02:00:17.079
<v Speaker 4>Fatima is literally all directed towards papal geopolitical power. It's

2104
02:00:17.119 --> 02:00:19.960
<v Speaker 4>all about whether Russia, which just happens to be the

2105
02:00:20.079 --> 02:00:23.479
<v Speaker 4>enemy of the Angle American establishment. Particularly at that point

2106
02:00:23.520 --> 02:00:26.359
<v Speaker 4>if you read quickly, even quickly, he's not talking about Fatima,

2107
02:00:26.439 --> 02:00:28.920
<v Speaker 4>but he's talking about the geopolitical power structure. At that

2108
02:00:29.000 --> 02:00:31.840
<v Speaker 4>time World War One, right, the two enemies of the

2109
02:00:31.840 --> 02:00:35.359
<v Speaker 4>West are Austro Hungarian Empire and Russia. So it just

2110
02:00:35.479 --> 02:00:38.239
<v Speaker 4>does not make sense to me that Mary is going

2111
02:00:38.279 --> 02:00:41.640
<v Speaker 4>to promise all this stuff, talk about all this stuff,

2112
02:00:42.319 --> 02:00:46.520
<v Speaker 4>and all of what Fatima is about is papalism and

2113
02:00:46.600 --> 02:00:50.239
<v Speaker 4>Roman Catholic specific doctrines like the Immaculate Conception and all

2114
02:00:50.239 --> 02:00:50.720
<v Speaker 4>this stuff.

2115
02:00:52.680 --> 02:00:56.000
<v Speaker 14>So what's the because I'm just kind of looking into Fatima, Now,

2116
02:00:56.039 --> 02:00:58.079
<v Speaker 14>what's the third secret?

2117
02:00:58.359 --> 02:01:00.560
<v Speaker 4>Well, this is another I would argue, this is another

2118
02:01:00.920 --> 02:01:05.359
<v Speaker 4>reason why it's bogus, because you can spend the next

2119
02:01:05.359 --> 02:01:08.199
<v Speaker 4>twenty years going down the rabbit hole of the trad

2120
02:01:08.239 --> 02:01:13.119
<v Speaker 4>cat madness of the third secret, where who knows it's

2121
02:01:13.119 --> 02:01:16.479
<v Speaker 4>anybody's guest because supposedly it was hidden and the popes

2122
02:01:16.520 --> 02:01:19.560
<v Speaker 4>didn't want to reveal it publicly, and then supposedly under

2123
02:01:20.079 --> 02:01:22.399
<v Speaker 4>John Paul the Second, it was red but it was nothing,

2124
02:01:22.439 --> 02:01:24.359
<v Speaker 4>but the trad cats say, jump all the Second covered

2125
02:01:24.359 --> 02:01:26.239
<v Speaker 4>it up because he wasn't a real trad and they

2126
02:01:26.279 --> 02:01:28.920
<v Speaker 4>switched out the Sister Lucia, and it's a clone, and

2127
02:01:28.960 --> 02:01:31.560
<v Speaker 4>it's a fake Sister Lucia. It's a never ending rabbit

2128
02:01:31.600 --> 02:01:34.239
<v Speaker 4>hole that is absolutely worthless.

2129
02:01:34.520 --> 02:01:37.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, that seems I know. I was trying to

2130
02:01:37.199 --> 02:01:38.479
<v Speaker 3>go and it was just too deep.

2131
02:01:38.359 --> 02:01:41.720
<v Speaker 4>Apart, you'll never get anything. So trust me, I was

2132
02:01:41.720 --> 02:01:44.439
<v Speaker 4>in the tradcat world, wandering in this hall of mirrors

2133
02:01:44.520 --> 02:01:47.880
<v Speaker 4>and smoking mirrors for I don't know ten years. And

2134
02:01:49.239 --> 02:01:53.119
<v Speaker 4>by the way, has everyone forgotten remember when what four

2135
02:01:53.199 --> 02:01:56.359
<v Speaker 4>years ago Lofton and everybody they were making videos that

2136
02:01:56.560 --> 02:01:59.439
<v Speaker 4>remember Roman called world was going crazy that Francis is

2137
02:01:59.560 --> 02:02:04.520
<v Speaker 4>concert creating Russia to the Immaculate Heart finally, finally, And

2138
02:02:04.800 --> 02:02:08.199
<v Speaker 4>I did multiple videos on this because I said, guess what,

2139
02:02:08.760 --> 02:02:12.760
<v Speaker 4>nothing will happen. Now, let's take note of this because

2140
02:02:12.840 --> 02:02:14.439
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to make what I think is a really

2141
02:02:14.479 --> 02:02:17.680
<v Speaker 4>strong argument here and I'll let you talk to you

2142
02:02:17.720 --> 02:02:21.439
<v Speaker 4>in Alex here. So let's go to Fatima on my channel,

2143
02:02:21.479 --> 02:02:25.960
<v Speaker 4>and we're going to look at this video when Francis

2144
02:02:26.000 --> 02:02:33.600
<v Speaker 4>was supposedly finally consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart right here.

2145
02:02:33.720 --> 02:02:38.760
<v Speaker 4>This one his favorite YouTuber. So this was two years ago,

2146
02:02:40.760 --> 02:02:44.840
<v Speaker 4>March twenty twenty, so almost three years ago, March twenty

2147
02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:47.319
<v Speaker 4>twenty two. By the way, most of this podcast, if

2148
02:02:47.359 --> 02:02:48.880
<v Speaker 4>you want to go out and review it, I'm covering

2149
02:02:49.039 --> 02:02:51.920
<v Speaker 4>my article that I wrote a long time ago about

2150
02:02:51.920 --> 02:02:57.159
<v Speaker 4>Fatima and Syops. So all the Romancounts are going crazy

2151
02:02:57.159 --> 02:02:59.239
<v Speaker 4>because at this time they were saying Francis was about

2152
02:02:59.279 --> 02:03:02.720
<v Speaker 4>to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart. Finally Russia was

2153
02:03:02.720 --> 02:03:06.039
<v Speaker 4>going to become Roman Catholic, and we all sat around

2154
02:03:06.079 --> 02:03:09.840
<v Speaker 4>laughing because we'd pointed out, guess what, nothing's going to happen.

2155
02:03:10.439 --> 02:03:13.520
<v Speaker 4>And it doesn't matter whether he is or isn't consecrating

2156
02:03:13.560 --> 02:03:15.600
<v Speaker 4>Rushi to the Emacular Heart. This was supposed to have

2157
02:03:15.640 --> 02:03:18.680
<v Speaker 4>been done back at the time, and there's like ten

2158
02:03:18.720 --> 02:03:20.800
<v Speaker 4>different times when the Roman Catholics said, well, he didn't

2159
02:03:20.800 --> 02:03:22.119
<v Speaker 4>really do it, but he's really going to do it

2160
02:03:22.159 --> 02:03:26.000
<v Speaker 4>next time. This scam has been going on since Fatima,

2161
02:03:26.520 --> 02:03:29.119
<v Speaker 4>and why can't if first of all, why can't he

2162
02:03:29.239 --> 02:03:31.960
<v Speaker 4>just do it? Like if you're a Roman Catholic and

2163
02:03:32.000 --> 02:03:35.479
<v Speaker 4>you believe this stuff, all the Pope has to do

2164
02:03:35.560 --> 02:03:38.399
<v Speaker 4>is just come out and do the consecration supposedly the

2165
02:03:38.399 --> 02:03:41.680
<v Speaker 4>way Mary said to do it. But there's this weird

2166
02:03:41.720 --> 02:03:44.560
<v Speaker 4>loophole where, well, but he didn't exactly do it technically

2167
02:03:44.600 --> 02:03:46.279
<v Speaker 4>the way Mary really told him to do it. So

2168
02:03:46.319 --> 02:03:49.039
<v Speaker 4>it's a never ending. It's almost like Harold Camping, who

2169
02:03:49.079 --> 02:03:52.800
<v Speaker 4>was that Protestant goofball that died not too long ago,

2170
02:03:53.279 --> 02:03:56.279
<v Speaker 4>who that evangelical end times guy was always predicting the

2171
02:03:56.359 --> 02:03:58.279
<v Speaker 4>end of the world, and then every time it wouldn't happen,

2172
02:03:58.279 --> 02:04:00.399
<v Speaker 4>he would say, oh, I got my calculations, but I

2173
02:04:00.399 --> 02:04:02.560
<v Speaker 4>got it right this time. So literally we would get

2174
02:04:02.600 --> 02:04:05.039
<v Speaker 4>it wrong like every few years and just alter the

2175
02:04:05.039 --> 02:04:06.359
<v Speaker 4>thing and say, well, I got it wrong, but I'll

2176
02:04:06.359 --> 02:04:08.199
<v Speaker 4>get it wrong. I'll get it right next time. What

2177
02:04:08.359 --> 02:04:12.279
<v Speaker 4>does Deuteronomy actually say when the thing doesn't come to pass,

2178
02:04:13.239 --> 02:04:17.000
<v Speaker 4>you know, not to listen to them. Well, guess what.

2179
02:04:17.119 --> 02:04:19.840
<v Speaker 4>How many times have we been told that the Immaculate

2180
02:04:19.840 --> 02:04:21.800
<v Speaker 4>Heart of Marry is going to be uh, you know

2181
02:04:21.920 --> 02:04:24.600
<v Speaker 4>what Russia converts to and they're going to return to

2182
02:04:24.640 --> 02:04:27.920
<v Speaker 4>the Holy Father And this has never happened. Therefore I

2183
02:04:27.960 --> 02:04:31.319
<v Speaker 4>don't have to listen to the pope and Ptoma.

2184
02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:37.000
<v Speaker 14>That makes sense, I mean, yeah, so the couple things

2185
02:04:37.039 --> 02:04:39.640
<v Speaker 14>came true though, right, like the World War two prediction

2186
02:04:40.239 --> 02:04:40.479
<v Speaker 14>or no?

2187
02:04:41.119 --> 02:04:45.079
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean so so what so we were even

2188
02:04:45.119 --> 02:04:47.680
<v Speaker 4>if that were the case and it wasn't staged. So

2189
02:04:47.760 --> 02:04:52.279
<v Speaker 4>what it's it's like a sixty thirty percent. So you

2190
02:04:52.560 --> 02:04:54.800
<v Speaker 4>so what three out of three, out of one, out

2191
02:04:54.800 --> 02:04:58.319
<v Speaker 4>of three, two out of three. I mean this says.

2192
02:04:58.520 --> 02:05:01.159
<v Speaker 4>This says that you got to be like one hundred percent,

2193
02:05:01.279 --> 02:05:04.800
<v Speaker 4>Like you don't get like a sixty percent prophecy, you know,

2194
02:05:06.399 --> 02:05:10.239
<v Speaker 4>a good try, you know, certificate of good merit. You

2195
02:05:10.239 --> 02:05:12.359
<v Speaker 4>were almost a one hundred percent profit, but you're only

2196
02:05:12.359 --> 02:05:14.960
<v Speaker 4>about a sixty percent profit. So anyway, thank you for

2197
02:05:15.000 --> 02:05:18.880
<v Speaker 4>your questions. I appreciate it. But those are my theories

2198
02:05:18.880 --> 02:05:23.079
<v Speaker 4>on Fatima. I don't hinge everything on Fatima. If somebody

2199
02:05:23.119 --> 02:05:25.479
<v Speaker 4>has a different there's different people. Some people in Orthodox Church.

2200
02:05:25.479 --> 02:05:28.600
<v Speaker 4>I actually think Fatima is an Orthodox thing. I don't

2201
02:05:28.600 --> 02:05:30.840
<v Speaker 4>know where you would ever get that, but some people

2202
02:05:30.880 --> 02:05:34.279
<v Speaker 4>think that it seems obvious to me when you read

2203
02:05:34.359 --> 02:05:38.720
<v Speaker 4>through Fatima. It's completely one hundred percent committed to weird

2204
02:05:38.800 --> 02:05:41.199
<v Speaker 4>Roman Catholic doctrines like the Immaculate Heart of Mary and

2205
02:05:41.199 --> 02:05:49.239
<v Speaker 4>all this stuff, So dude, what's up. I think it's

2206
02:05:49.279 --> 02:05:52.000
<v Speaker 4>also one of the last resorts like for people who

2207
02:05:52.000 --> 02:05:54.159
<v Speaker 4>are really doubting Rome and all this, like they just

2208
02:05:54.279 --> 02:05:56.800
<v Speaker 4>run to the Mary and apparition stuff like, well, I

2209
02:05:56.840 --> 02:05:59.279
<v Speaker 4>don't know, it all seems like it doesn't make sense

2210
02:05:59.319 --> 02:06:02.279
<v Speaker 4>and for ancest is contradicted. Well, but you know what, Mary,

2211
02:06:02.600 --> 02:06:04.600
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. It's like the last sort of like

2212
02:06:05.239 --> 02:06:07.479
<v Speaker 4>bastion thing. But to me, it's just like really weak.

2213
02:06:10.359 --> 02:06:14.600
<v Speaker 4>What's up, dude, don't you hey, Jamie, could you make

2214
02:06:14.640 --> 02:06:19.359
<v Speaker 4>another one? This was really weak. I know it's the

2215
02:06:20.000 --> 02:06:25.680
<v Speaker 4>it's not your fault, it's the faulty machine here. Yeah,

2216
02:06:25.720 --> 02:06:27.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean so you ran I thought he wanted to debate.

2217
02:06:27.920 --> 02:06:33.319
<v Speaker 4>He ran away. No, he's back. The dude on mute.

2218
02:06:34.439 --> 02:06:36.239
<v Speaker 4>We got the big Lebowski, we got the dude.

2219
02:06:36.600 --> 02:06:37.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all right, love that.

2220
02:06:38.479 --> 02:06:42.079
<v Speaker 17>It just was kind of freaking out, like, uh, I

2221
02:06:42.079 --> 02:06:46.079
<v Speaker 17>don't know what was all right? Uh first off, kind

2222
02:06:46.119 --> 02:06:51.840
<v Speaker 17>of conspiratorial mindset here. Uh. I guess we'll just thank

2223
02:06:52.079 --> 02:06:56.600
<v Speaker 17>Alex Jones for that one. And uh uh you know,

2224
02:06:57.600 --> 02:07:00.359
<v Speaker 17>I guess the first thing I would disagree with would be,

2225
02:07:00.520 --> 02:07:04.640
<v Speaker 17>uh the perpetual virgin thing. Not that I really not

2226
02:07:04.760 --> 02:07:06.720
<v Speaker 17>that I don't want to. I don't want to put

2227
02:07:06.760 --> 02:07:09.079
<v Speaker 17>too much stake in this because I really I don't.

2228
02:07:09.399 --> 02:07:11.920
<v Speaker 17>I don't really have a dog in this fight. But

2229
02:07:13.039 --> 02:07:16.760
<v Speaker 17>like in in the Bible specifically, when I think there's

2230
02:07:16.800 --> 02:07:20.920
<v Speaker 17>a few passage maybe there's like one passage in Matthew

2231
02:07:20.960 --> 02:07:24.479
<v Speaker 17>and then another passage in Mark, but it references to uh,

2232
02:07:25.079 --> 02:07:28.920
<v Speaker 17>you know, his brothers and I think maybe even his sisters.

2233
02:07:29.600 --> 02:07:31.960
<v Speaker 17>So I think that's kind of the content.

2234
02:07:33.920 --> 02:07:36.000
<v Speaker 3>It's there for me.

2235
02:07:36.199 --> 02:07:39.439
<v Speaker 17>Are you contestants disagree with the Catholics and Orthodox?

2236
02:07:39.640 --> 02:07:43.279
<v Speaker 4>I know, we know, but uh, the word can mean

2237
02:07:43.479 --> 02:07:46.800
<v Speaker 4>just relative, distent relatives and cousins, so it doesn't it

2238
02:07:46.840 --> 02:07:50.159
<v Speaker 4>does not necessitate a biological brother.

2239
02:07:51.399 --> 02:07:53.760
<v Speaker 17>And I think that was kind of the the baseline

2240
02:07:53.760 --> 02:07:56.399
<v Speaker 17>for Martin Luther to Uh.

2241
02:07:57.119 --> 02:07:59.560
<v Speaker 4>No, that's false. Did Martin Luther believed in the perpetual

2242
02:07:59.600 --> 02:08:01.680
<v Speaker 4>virginity as did Calvin? So that's Falseome?

2243
02:08:02.199 --> 02:08:05.319
<v Speaker 17>Well, no, no, no, no, I was I was stating,

2244
02:08:05.760 --> 02:08:10.439
<v Speaker 17>you know, the agreeance with that from your standpoint, he

2245
02:08:10.479 --> 02:08:12.439
<v Speaker 17>did believe in a perpetual version.

2246
02:08:12.680 --> 02:08:13.000
<v Speaker 4>Correct.

2247
02:08:13.319 --> 02:08:17.239
<v Speaker 17>Uh you know that wasn't really a Protestant belief until

2248
02:08:17.239 --> 02:08:18.279
<v Speaker 17>further down the line.

2249
02:08:18.399 --> 02:08:19.399
<v Speaker 4>Correct.

2250
02:08:20.399 --> 02:08:25.840
<v Speaker 17>So yeah, Now I got another disagreement here.

2251
02:08:25.840 --> 02:08:28.640
<v Speaker 3>Kind of having to do with the whole Uh. I

2252
02:08:28.760 --> 02:08:30.439
<v Speaker 3>noticed that first off?

2253
02:08:31.159 --> 02:08:34.039
<v Speaker 17>Maybe a segue here, I'd like to reiterate that, you know,

2254
02:08:34.239 --> 02:08:37.880
<v Speaker 17>Martin Luther, I don't think he really had any ill blood.

2255
02:08:39.239 --> 02:08:42.319
<v Speaker 17>I think he Actually, I'm not one hundred percent on this,

2256
02:08:42.399 --> 02:08:46.680
<v Speaker 17>but I do believe he tried to do some reunifications

2257
02:08:46.760 --> 02:08:49.960
<v Speaker 17>and restructuring with the Catholic Church. I don't know if

2258
02:08:50.000 --> 02:08:54.640
<v Speaker 17>that was pre him being excommunicated or not. And then

2259
02:08:54.680 --> 02:08:57.439
<v Speaker 17>I also believe in his later days, and I could

2260
02:08:57.479 --> 02:09:00.399
<v Speaker 17>be wrong, but I thought he tried some sort of

2261
02:09:00.560 --> 02:09:03.520
<v Speaker 17>reunification with the Eastern Orthodox as well.

2262
02:09:04.239 --> 02:09:06.520
<v Speaker 4>I mean he wrote some letters and there was some contact,

2263
02:09:06.520 --> 02:09:09.439
<v Speaker 4>but there was not any attempts to have reunification. I

2264
02:09:09.439 --> 02:09:12.239
<v Speaker 4>mean later Luthor. I've read a lot of Luther. I

2265
02:09:12.279 --> 02:09:13.800
<v Speaker 4>went through a phase when I was a Protestant. I

2266
02:09:13.840 --> 02:09:17.039
<v Speaker 4>read about six or seven of Luther's books. There was

2267
02:09:17.039 --> 02:09:19.239
<v Speaker 4>a there was a period where he kind of reached out.

2268
02:09:19.359 --> 02:09:22.920
<v Speaker 4>But later Luther gets really sort of adamant about things

2269
02:09:23.039 --> 02:09:28.199
<v Speaker 4>like Solofide, and he was not interested in Orthodox position

2270
02:09:28.239 --> 02:09:31.239
<v Speaker 4>because they didn't they weren't. They weren't interested in Solofide.

2271
02:09:35.680 --> 02:09:38.239
<v Speaker 3>Right, and so on.

2272
02:09:38.319 --> 02:09:44.600
<v Speaker 17>That big separation from the Catholicism is stim some other disagreements,

2273
02:09:44.680 --> 02:09:48.560
<v Speaker 17>like purgatory. Obviously I don't believe in purgatory.

2274
02:09:49.039 --> 02:09:51.520
<v Speaker 4>Well there were the doors. Doesn't believe in purgatory.

2275
02:09:51.119 --> 02:09:54.800
<v Speaker 17>So, oh, that's right, Okay, Yeah, So when I was

2276
02:09:54.920 --> 02:09:59.039
<v Speaker 17>briefed on the two different other sects when I went

2277
02:09:59.119 --> 02:10:02.840
<v Speaker 17>through a confirmation or whatever, and I'm not very devout anymore,

2278
02:10:02.880 --> 02:10:06.039
<v Speaker 17>but I still read a lot and long story short,

2279
02:10:06.119 --> 02:10:09.359
<v Speaker 17>when we were talking about him, I remember very little,

2280
02:10:09.399 --> 02:10:13.560
<v Speaker 17>but it was more or less described as the.

2281
02:10:12.960 --> 02:10:14.399
<v Speaker 3>Lesser of the two evils.

2282
02:10:14.479 --> 02:10:19.920
<v Speaker 17>Between the initial start of the Catholic Church, the Orthodox,

2283
02:10:20.039 --> 02:10:20.880
<v Speaker 17>the Great Schism.

2284
02:10:20.960 --> 02:10:22.359
<v Speaker 3>We briefly touched.

2285
02:10:22.079 --> 02:10:27.159
<v Speaker 17>All of that, and so, like, I guess I forgot that.

2286
02:10:27.479 --> 02:10:32.439
<v Speaker 17>So what about prayers to the dead? Is that a

2287
02:10:32.479 --> 02:10:33.439
<v Speaker 17>thing for the Orthodox?

2288
02:10:33.600 --> 02:10:36.560
<v Speaker 4>I thought the Saints, so we don't believe that they're dead.

2289
02:10:36.600 --> 02:10:38.760
<v Speaker 4>We believe they're alive to God. And if you read

2290
02:10:38.800 --> 02:10:42.439
<v Speaker 4>Revelation five through nine, John season to heaven on the

2291
02:10:42.479 --> 02:10:45.680
<v Speaker 4>Lord's Day. So he's in the liturgical worship, he's officiating

2292
02:10:45.760 --> 02:10:49.079
<v Speaker 4>the altar, and he interacts with the Saints the angels

2293
02:10:49.079 --> 02:10:54.279
<v Speaker 4>in heaven, and they're doing the prayers in heaven for

2294
02:10:54.479 --> 02:10:56.840
<v Speaker 4>the church on earth. So it's community of saints. It's

2295
02:10:56.840 --> 02:10:58.199
<v Speaker 4>not talking to the dead.

2296
02:11:00.079 --> 02:11:03.720
<v Speaker 3>I guess I was maybe I got that mixed up.

2297
02:11:03.760 --> 02:11:06.319
<v Speaker 17>I thought I thought the talking to the saints thing

2298
02:11:06.520 --> 02:11:10.640
<v Speaker 17>was a praying to the saints to be the mediator

2299
02:11:10.760 --> 02:11:11.119
<v Speaker 17>or whatever.

2300
02:11:11.159 --> 02:11:11.720
<v Speaker 16>I thought that was.

2301
02:11:13.479 --> 02:11:15.760
<v Speaker 4>Called communion of saints and it's the idea that the

2302
02:11:15.800 --> 02:11:17.079
<v Speaker 4>Saints intercede for us.

2303
02:11:18.199 --> 02:11:21.359
<v Speaker 17>Okay, Yeah, No, I thought there was specific like prayers

2304
02:11:21.399 --> 02:11:25.079
<v Speaker 17>to purify the dead or whatever in the Orthodoxy tradition.

2305
02:11:25.359 --> 02:11:27.119
<v Speaker 3>I thought the Catholics did that too.

2306
02:11:28.000 --> 02:11:30.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm not. I mean, we pray for the dead, is

2307
02:11:30.960 --> 02:11:31.680
<v Speaker 4>that you're talking about?

2308
02:11:33.119 --> 02:11:33.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

2309
02:11:33.680 --> 02:11:37.079
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the people who are newly deceased are prayed for

2310
02:11:37.239 --> 02:11:42.359
<v Speaker 4>in the liturgy. Correct. That is an Orthodox and Catholic practice.

2311
02:11:42.600 --> 02:11:46.239
<v Speaker 4>It's in the Book of Maccabis too. It's a noble

2312
02:11:46.279 --> 02:11:46.840
<v Speaker 4>thing to pray.

2313
02:11:46.720 --> 02:11:49.359
<v Speaker 17>For the dead, Okay, and the meaning that's why the

2314
02:11:49.760 --> 02:11:53.000
<v Speaker 17>you know, the Protestants, don't you know, follow that. You know,

2315
02:11:53.319 --> 02:11:56.439
<v Speaker 17>I understand that Luther didn't really kick it to the

2316
02:11:56.520 --> 02:12:01.000
<v Speaker 17>curb as far as all those additional looks. However, he

2317
02:12:01.039 --> 02:12:04.479
<v Speaker 17>did when he did his translation or whatever.

2318
02:12:05.159 --> 02:12:09.039
<v Speaker 4>I know he did explicitly later he later explicitly said

2319
02:12:09.039 --> 02:12:11.880
<v Speaker 4>that he does not like those books because they afford

2320
02:12:12.000 --> 02:12:15.760
<v Speaker 4>the Catholics proof for their doctrines. So appreciate your questions. Man,

2321
02:12:15.760 --> 02:12:18.000
<v Speaker 4>We're going to move on. Look for people who disagree.

2322
02:12:18.279 --> 02:12:21.239
<v Speaker 4>If you have an argument. If you'd like to pose

2323
02:12:21.319 --> 02:12:24.840
<v Speaker 4>an argument against me, if you'd like to raise an issue,

2324
02:12:24.880 --> 02:12:26.520
<v Speaker 4>you can have a floor. You can argue for as

2325
02:12:26.560 --> 02:12:29.600
<v Speaker 4>long as you like. Raise your hand. If you are

2326
02:12:29.640 --> 02:12:32.319
<v Speaker 4>in the quay. We've got eleven people waiting, so let

2327
02:12:32.319 --> 02:12:34.199
<v Speaker 4>me know. If you disagree, you go to the headline

2328
02:12:35.239 --> 02:12:49.119
<v Speaker 4>and I will go to you first. So, Joshua, what's up, dude?

2329
02:12:52.760 --> 02:12:53.199
<v Speaker 4>What's up?

2330
02:12:55.279 --> 02:12:55.560
<v Speaker 3>Okay?

2331
02:12:55.840 --> 02:13:02.880
<v Speaker 22>So kind of argument and a question, But how do

2332
02:13:03.000 --> 02:13:11.680
<v Speaker 22>you have a personal being in procession? So you know,

2333
02:13:11.760 --> 02:13:18.279
<v Speaker 22>the sun is begotten, but the Holy Spirit proceeds. But

2334
02:13:18.439 --> 02:13:23.159
<v Speaker 22>they're both personal beings. And as far as I understand,

2335
02:13:24.479 --> 02:13:28.960
<v Speaker 22>the procession is something like a breath from God.

2336
02:13:30.039 --> 02:13:33.640
<v Speaker 4>So no breath is just one of the biblical analogies

2337
02:13:33.680 --> 02:13:37.079
<v Speaker 4>for the person of the Holy Spirit. It's not intended

2338
02:13:37.119 --> 02:13:43.720
<v Speaker 4>to define his procession. Procession is the particular personal property

2339
02:13:43.720 --> 02:13:48.279
<v Speaker 4>that picks out the Holy Spirit. So what's the question?

2340
02:13:50.279 --> 02:13:51.680
<v Speaker 3>So wouldn't that make.

2341
02:13:53.119 --> 02:13:59.279
<v Speaker 22>Wouldn't that make the sun and the Spirit, you know, indifferentiable?

2342
02:13:59.319 --> 02:14:02.920
<v Speaker 3>You cann't really tell them apart. No.

2343
02:14:03.039 --> 02:14:06.880
<v Speaker 4>In fact, the Unomians raised this question to Basil, and

2344
02:14:06.920 --> 02:14:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Basil says that that there's a distinction between generation and procession.

2345
02:14:11.039 --> 02:14:13.880
<v Speaker 4>We know exactly what that distinction is. We do not know.

2346
02:14:14.359 --> 02:14:16.399
<v Speaker 4>So there's a lot of elements that we're not told

2347
02:14:16.399 --> 02:14:18.800
<v Speaker 4>in Divine revelation about the person of the Holy Spirit.

2348
02:14:19.319 --> 02:14:21.600
<v Speaker 4>And Gregoro Nuts I think is Gregory nat Sanzos says

2349
02:14:21.600 --> 02:14:24.119
<v Speaker 4>that in the Escaton the Holy Spirit will be more

2350
02:14:24.399 --> 02:14:29.159
<v Speaker 4>known than he is in our era. So no, so

2351
02:14:29.199 --> 02:14:30.840
<v Speaker 4>there's a lot more to this question. It's not a

2352
02:14:30.920 --> 02:14:37.159
<v Speaker 4>question of somehow Philioque would give a character to the Spirit.

2353
02:14:37.239 --> 02:14:40.359
<v Speaker 4>I've never understood this argument. I'm not trying to knock you.

2354
02:14:40.920 --> 02:14:43.880
<v Speaker 4>It's a common Roman, Catholic and Protestant argument. I literally

2355
02:14:43.920 --> 02:14:45.800
<v Speaker 4>have no idea what this argument is supposed to prove.

2356
02:14:45.880 --> 02:14:45.920
<v Speaker 3>It.

2357
02:14:46.199 --> 02:14:48.640
<v Speaker 4>I think it stems from the idea that the only

2358
02:14:48.640 --> 02:14:51.399
<v Speaker 4>way to distinguish persons is relations of opposition or something

2359
02:14:51.439 --> 02:14:55.000
<v Speaker 4>like that, or you know, one comes from the Father,

2360
02:14:55.199 --> 02:14:56.920
<v Speaker 4>the other one can only be distinguished if he comes

2361
02:14:56.920 --> 02:14:59.520
<v Speaker 4>from two. I mean, this is totally stupid if you

2362
02:14:59.560 --> 02:15:02.760
<v Speaker 4>think about in terms of theological augmentation, because it's a

2363
02:15:02.800 --> 02:15:06.000
<v Speaker 4>subordination of the Holy Spirit to try to distinguish him

2364
02:15:06.359 --> 02:15:09.840
<v Speaker 4>by not having something that the first two people possess.

2365
02:15:09.600 --> 02:15:12.960
<v Speaker 4>It's that stupid, and in fact it's the very argumentation

2366
02:15:13.199 --> 02:15:17.079
<v Speaker 4>of the Cappadocians against the subordinationists of their time. Because

2367
02:15:17.079 --> 02:15:20.239
<v Speaker 4>the subordinations of their time, we're arguing that you can

2368
02:15:20.279 --> 02:15:24.159
<v Speaker 4>have these different levels in God as if well, there's

2369
02:15:24.199 --> 02:15:26.960
<v Speaker 4>these powers that this one has that this one lacks,

2370
02:15:27.359 --> 02:15:30.119
<v Speaker 4>this one has this power of being this and the

2371
02:15:30.199 --> 02:15:32.439
<v Speaker 4>Father and the Son together could do this. I mean,

2372
02:15:32.479 --> 02:15:35.800
<v Speaker 4>it's an extension of the argumentation of the heretics to

2373
02:15:35.960 --> 02:15:39.199
<v Speaker 4>argue that the Holy Spirit precedes by will, or that

2374
02:15:39.279 --> 02:15:41.239
<v Speaker 4>he proceeds from the Father and the Son as a

2375
02:15:41.279 --> 02:15:45.399
<v Speaker 4>single principle. There's no power or attribute that two people

2376
02:15:45.439 --> 02:15:48.640
<v Speaker 4>in the Trinity share that one lacks. All the philioque

2377
02:15:48.800 --> 02:15:52.199
<v Speaker 4>ugmentation is premised on that very point, So that subordinates

2378
02:15:52.239 --> 02:15:55.199
<v Speaker 4>the Spirit he lacks the power of causing a person.

2379
02:16:00.199 --> 02:16:04.279
<v Speaker 22>The procession from the son, I mean, we would say

2380
02:16:04.279 --> 02:16:07.000
<v Speaker 22>the procession from the Son to the Spirit is not.

2381
02:16:09.399 --> 02:16:10.640
<v Speaker 3>It's not exactly the.

2382
02:16:10.560 --> 02:16:16.159
<v Speaker 22>Same procession as from the Father through the Son.

2383
02:16:16.520 --> 02:16:19.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, that's even worse because that means that there's partition

2384
02:16:19.960 --> 02:16:23.960
<v Speaker 4>in God because the Father contributes something to the Spirit

2385
02:16:24.039 --> 02:16:29.039
<v Speaker 4>that the son, that the Father doesn't contribute something that

2386
02:16:29.079 --> 02:16:33.479
<v Speaker 4>the Son does. So what the Father spir rates fifty

2387
02:16:33.479 --> 02:16:36.360
<v Speaker 4>percent the Holy Spirit and the Son spirates another fifty percent.

2388
02:16:36.399 --> 02:16:39.399
<v Speaker 4>That's again, that's stupid because there's no partitions in God.

2389
02:16:41.799 --> 02:16:46.079
<v Speaker 22>Well, it would it would all all the procession would

2390
02:16:46.120 --> 02:16:48.920
<v Speaker 22>come through the Son the Spirit.

2391
02:16:49.000 --> 02:16:51.799
<v Speaker 4>Okay, does the Father generate a son whole and entire?

2392
02:16:55.120 --> 02:16:55.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

2393
02:16:55.680 --> 02:16:58.319
<v Speaker 4>Right, So when the Father spirrates a spirit, is he

2394
02:16:58.399 --> 02:17:04.280
<v Speaker 4>not whole an entire? Yeah? Correct, Then there's nothing that

2395
02:17:04.319 --> 02:17:10.479
<v Speaker 4>the Sun could contribute to the existential existence of the Spirit. Yeah,

2396
02:17:11.159 --> 02:17:17.479
<v Speaker 4>I mean it, well than that refutes Philqui. That's from

2397
02:17:17.639 --> 02:17:18.760
<v Speaker 4>that's an argument from them.

2398
02:17:19.000 --> 02:17:20.799
<v Speaker 3>That's at the very end of my.

2399
02:17:22.079 --> 02:17:25.040
<v Speaker 4>That's from the mystic Gadia. I'm literally just repeating mister

2400
02:17:25.079 --> 02:17:25.959
<v Speaker 4>Gauji arguments.

2401
02:17:27.879 --> 02:17:34.159
<v Speaker 3>So you said that in a.

2402
02:17:34.120 --> 02:17:37.639
<v Speaker 22>Particular saints said that in the future we would know more.

2403
02:17:37.719 --> 02:17:38.399
<v Speaker 3>Is that what you said?

2404
02:17:38.600 --> 02:17:41.639
<v Speaker 4>I believe it's Gregory, not Sanjus who says that the

2405
02:17:42.479 --> 02:17:43.520
<v Speaker 4>it might be one of the it's one of the

2406
02:17:43.559 --> 02:17:46.719
<v Speaker 4>Cappa Docians. It's either Nissa or not Sws. But in

2407
02:17:46.760 --> 02:17:50.680
<v Speaker 4>the asketon, more of the personal character of the Holy

2408
02:17:50.760 --> 02:17:57.719
<v Speaker 4>Spirit would be revealed in the asketon because in this dispensation,

2409
02:17:57.920 --> 02:18:02.399
<v Speaker 4>this era before the Esketon, we have limited ideas and

2410
02:18:02.479 --> 02:18:04.639
<v Speaker 4>details about the person of the Holy Spirit. In the

2411
02:18:04.680 --> 02:18:07.879
<v Speaker 4>New Testament and in Church history we have several I'm

2412
02:18:07.879 --> 02:18:10.799
<v Speaker 4>not saying there's no details. Jesus tells us many things

2413
02:18:10.840 --> 02:18:15.000
<v Speaker 4>about the comforter. He sanctifies, he reveals truth, he points

2414
02:18:15.040 --> 02:18:17.200
<v Speaker 4>people to the Son. The Son then points people to

2415
02:18:17.239 --> 02:18:19.280
<v Speaker 4>the Father, et cetera. So it's not that we don't

2416
02:18:19.319 --> 02:18:22.079
<v Speaker 4>know anything. It's just that the Cavedasians point out that

2417
02:18:22.479 --> 02:18:24.760
<v Speaker 4>we are not told as much about the Holy Spirit

2418
02:18:24.959 --> 02:18:27.760
<v Speaker 4>as we are told about the Sun, and they speculate

2419
02:18:27.799 --> 02:18:29.920
<v Speaker 4>that in the Esketon more would be known about the

2420
02:18:29.920 --> 02:18:36.559
<v Speaker 4>Holy Spirit. It was the escaton, the eternal state.

2421
02:18:40.120 --> 02:18:44.840
<v Speaker 3>So you're saying in the afterlife will know more.

2422
02:18:46.760 --> 02:18:49.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, as the text from Paul says that I see

2423
02:18:49.799 --> 02:18:54.040
<v Speaker 4>through a glass darkly, but then I will know fully.

2424
02:18:54.719 --> 02:18:59.040
<v Speaker 22>Okay, all right, yeah, those no.

2425
02:18:59.000 --> 02:19:01.360
<v Speaker 4>Those are fair questions, Shay, fair questions on that though.

2426
02:19:01.360 --> 02:19:06.639
<v Speaker 4>Those are actually common objections from people in the West

2427
02:19:06.799 --> 02:19:10.440
<v Speaker 4>to the Orthodox doctrine of the procession. But if you

2428
02:19:10.520 --> 02:19:16.760
<v Speaker 4>read mystagogy and then appudect to treatise by Sangraa Palamas

2429
02:19:16.840 --> 02:19:20.520
<v Speaker 4>is really it's actually just building on the mystagogy, and

2430
02:19:20.559 --> 02:19:23.520
<v Speaker 4>it takes the arguments to another level. So most of

2431
02:19:23.559 --> 02:19:26.479
<v Speaker 4>the arguments that are in the mystagogy are one solid,

2432
02:19:26.520 --> 02:19:31.920
<v Speaker 4>they're still they still hold up. But Palamas takes Aristotelian

2433
02:19:32.000 --> 02:19:36.000
<v Speaker 4>logic and applies that to all the arguments that Photius

2434
02:19:36.000 --> 02:19:41.799
<v Speaker 4>makes and just kind of makes the next level. Muge

2435
02:19:41.920 --> 02:19:55.799
<v Speaker 4>Taba Ahmed, Hey.

2436
02:19:55.879 --> 02:19:56.440
<v Speaker 11>Can you hear me?

2437
02:19:56.760 --> 02:20:03.120
<v Speaker 23>Yeah, yeah, hey there, Jay, I recognized you from one

2438
02:20:03.159 --> 02:20:06.799
<v Speaker 23>of the debates that you had. But uh, but Jake,

2439
02:20:07.280 --> 02:20:13.600
<v Speaker 23>I met a physician and Daniel Hakika Chu. Yeah, nothing

2440
02:20:13.639 --> 02:20:18.719
<v Speaker 23>specific about those debates, but I was curious, you know,

2441
02:20:18.840 --> 02:20:22.319
<v Speaker 23>from an overview standpoint, what are some of the theological

2442
02:20:22.399 --> 02:20:27.239
<v Speaker 23>differences between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic and the

2443
02:20:27.280 --> 02:20:28.200
<v Speaker 23>Catholic Church.

2444
02:20:28.760 --> 02:20:32.319
<v Speaker 3>So I was just interested, maybe in your words, what

2445
02:20:32.479 --> 02:20:35.959
<v Speaker 3>what are some of those key differences. And and one other.

2446
02:20:35.840 --> 02:20:40.920
<v Speaker 23>Question I had in Islam, the Virgin, the Virgin Mother Mary,

2447
02:20:41.079 --> 02:20:46.000
<v Speaker 23>may peace be upon her. Uh, she had no husband. Uh,

2448
02:20:46.079 --> 02:20:51.399
<v Speaker 23>she had no physical husband. So I don't know, maybe

2449
02:20:51.520 --> 02:20:54.799
<v Speaker 23>I read it wrong or seen it in videos that

2450
02:20:55.200 --> 02:20:57.319
<v Speaker 23>she did in fact have a husband.

2451
02:20:56.920 --> 02:20:58.680
<v Speaker 3>In some Christian traditions.

2452
02:20:58.719 --> 02:21:01.399
<v Speaker 23>So maybe if you can speak supply to that, if

2453
02:21:01.399 --> 02:21:02.280
<v Speaker 23>that's true.

2454
02:21:02.799 --> 02:21:06.159
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean in the Orthodox and Catholic churches. Mary

2455
02:21:06.280 --> 02:21:09.000
<v Speaker 4>was betrothed, she was not married in the sense of

2456
02:21:09.799 --> 02:21:15.120
<v Speaker 4>any sexual relations, so we believe she remained a virgin.

2457
02:21:16.120 --> 02:21:21.440
<v Speaker 4>Catholics believe that as well. Many Protestants used to believe that,

2458
02:21:22.000 --> 02:21:23.760
<v Speaker 4>but there are Protestants are all over the place, so

2459
02:21:23.920 --> 02:21:27.719
<v Speaker 4>there's maybe some groups that believe that something else happened.

2460
02:21:27.719 --> 02:21:31.520
<v Speaker 4>I mean, many Protonants believe that she had relations with Joseph,

2461
02:21:31.559 --> 02:21:32.799
<v Speaker 4>but we do not believe that she