WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.480 The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video. Try 2 00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:06.480 out scarecrows rent by mail service. Choose from over one 3 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.199 hundred and fifty thousand films that give Blu rays, four 4 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:13.080 k's and DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow 5 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:14.160 dot com today. 6 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:22.199 Oh geez, folks, it's showtime. 7 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:24.960 People say good money to see this movie. 8 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:26.440 When they go out to a theater. 9 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:29.320 They want clod sodas, pop popcorn in. 10 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:31.480 No monsters in the Projection Booth. 11 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:35.119 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring, got it off? 12 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:55.399 Let's kip thousand and Americans. 13 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:56.359 He just leaving the game. 14 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:02.520 Boum finds a gig an event, humbling Bod Scott cand 15 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:03.439 of blam shpoil. 16 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:19.000 Mh s. 17 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:27.319 Let's shall happen? 18 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:40.280 Do know know that I claifists my Jack jago A dagonmut. 19 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.719 Sa, fortunate. 20 00:01:57.079 --> 00:01:57.439 Drapes. 21 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:31.479 Yeah, James, Benzylim ben More and Duhel. 22 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:36.960 Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White 23 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:41.400 Jimney once again is mister Keith Gordon. Hello, Hello, Also 24 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:43.520 back in the booth this Ms Rain Alexander. 25 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:45.120 Hey, glad to be back. 26 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:48.759 We are starting a month of mostly listener requests, with 27 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:53.759 one from Jordan Nash that's Fatig Aiken's head On, released 28 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:56.080 in two thousand and four, The film stars bear with 29 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:58.719 me here and bear with me with all these names, 30 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:04.000 Barol Unel as Kahit and Sibel Kakhille as Sibel, two 31 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:07.280 Turkish people living in Germany. They also share a desire 32 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:10.280 to end it all, Sibel by slashing her wrists and 33 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:13.520 Kahit by giving us the title of the film as 34 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.039 he crashes his car head on into a wall after 35 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:20.039 a drunken night. Sibel is in need of a husband 36 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.319 in name only to get her parents off her back, 37 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:26.599 while Kahil needs to torture himself some more. We will 38 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:28.759 be spoiling this film as we go along, so if 39 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.000 you don't want anything ruined, please turn off the podcast 40 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:33.439 and come back after you've seen it. So, Rain, when 41 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.280 was the first time you saw head On? And what 42 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:35.960 did you think? 43 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.360 I saw this pretty soon after it came out. It's 44 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:42.159 hard to put a finger on it because I feel 45 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.759 like I saw it earlier than it was available, right 46 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:48.919 sometime in that early two thousands, but it was probably 47 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:52.520 around two thousand and five, you know, probably on Home video, 48 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:56.960 and I loved this film instantly for many, many reasons 49 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.599 that I think we'll get into in the longer discussion. 50 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.159 It scratches a particular itch that I feel like I 51 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.599 get less and less of in cinema. You know that 52 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:10.400 fast spender itch. You know these really bleak and yet 53 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:11.719 sweeping romances. 54 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.199 Right and Keith, how about yourself? 55 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.319 Can I just say diddo? It's actually kind of simpl 56 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.720 you know. As a film fan person, I'm always geting 57 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:23.360 my eyes out for things and ears up for things. 58 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:25.680 And I don't remember I read some articles that mentioned it. 59 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.279 I think it might have been a Jonson Rosenbaum review 60 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:29.879 of something else that mentioned it, or so it was 61 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:33.000 something that mentioned it. Oh that sounds interesting, and in 62 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.319 my way I tracked down. I think it was the 63 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.000 UK DVD because it was the only one that was out, 64 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.800 and it just blew me away. I mean, this is 65 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:43.879 became in his state, one of my very favorite films. 66 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.360 It's more for all those wonderful, ineffable qualities than for 67 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:49.560 anything about the plot. It's one of those movies if 68 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.959 you try to describe can sell, Oh that sounds okay. 69 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:53.399 I mean it sounds a little like this or a 70 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.000 little like that, but it's not like anything, and that 71 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.600 it made me vall love with not just this film, 72 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.079 but I don't know if it's Achen or a Keens. 73 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.399 I think it's a keen, but I embarrassed. I don't 74 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:05.879 know the right connunciation. But it fell in love with all. 75 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:08.120 I started working my way through all his films and 76 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.800 realizing just what an amazingly protean and talented filmmaker is. 77 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.920 But this one's my very favorite. The mix of humor 78 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:20.839 and darkness and pain and light and hopelessness and hopefulness 79 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:24.480 and cool music and wonderful editing and somebody. This is 80 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:27.079 one of those things where all the elements fit each 81 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.360 other and made something even bigger than the some of 82 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.199 its parts. And I found deeply, deeply moving and haunted me. 83 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:36.319 And I just you know, seen it now a whole 84 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:38.439 bunch of times. And I'm really glad we're getting talked 85 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:39.920 about it, because it's one of those movies that I 86 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:42.000 always tell people about, Like people say, well, what's a 87 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:43.920 good movie I don't know about? This is on my 88 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.639 short list, So I'm really glad we're getting to maybe 89 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:48.040 get a few more people who want to see it. 90 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:50.120 I think you're right. I think it is a keen 91 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:53.759 And if I said aichin like Klayak and earlier, I apologize. 92 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:57.519 But reading versus hearing, you know, I read those intros 93 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:00.279 and I knew his name walking into this, and then 94 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:03.600 of course screwed it up. And I'm really glad that 95 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:07.240 Jordan Nash asked for this one, because I had heard 96 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.959 of this film, but I had never seen it, and 97 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:11.759 so this was a real treat for me to be 98 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.360 able to experience this for the first time for the show. 99 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:19.680 And yeah, this kind of star cross lovers kind of thing, 100 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.879 and yeah, just the misery shared by a couple, Yeah, 101 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.199 it's right there. I love that kind of stuff too. 102 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.439 And this is so much better than I mean, there's 103 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.319 a really nice book written about this movie, and the 104 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:38.360 author is talking about other films that are somewhat similar, 105 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.399 and they brought up Green Card. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, 106 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.680 I remember Green Card. This is a lot better than 107 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:47.079 Green Card. Not to say that Green Card is a 108 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.600 bad movie, but this was so much better and so 109 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.199 much what I'm looking for. And I just love these 110 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:56.600 kind of self destructive characters who are clinging to each 111 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.399 other and yet pushing each other away. This whole idea 112 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:07.319 of Sabelle trying to I don't know, she just wants 113 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:09.920 to get married to get her family off of her back, 114 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.839 and they want this well, I don't know how much 115 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.600 he wants it, but she definitely wants this open relationship 116 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.240 where she can go and mess around with anybody, encourages 117 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:21.759 him to mess around with anybody. But of course the 118 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:24.720 inevitable happens and they start to fall in love and 119 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:29.319 then a bigger tragedy ensues. I just love stories. 120 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:30.319 Like this, you know. 121 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:34.319 I hndited that at this when I made my first remarks, 122 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:37.439 But this is a film that I kind of went 123 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:42.279 into it with a misreading of it as a as 124 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:45.639 a queer film, right and specifically as a trans film 125 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:51.199 for many many reasons. I had had a friend in 126 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.600 the early two thousands who had been in Europe and 127 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.240 who had started a relationship with a Turkish trans woman 128 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.759 who was really trying to get away from what her 129 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.079 life was in Turkey, and so it was a little 130 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.879 bit informed by that, but I had also been tipped off. 131 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:09.759 I'm not sure how I received this, but you know, 132 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:11.360 I think as we see in the film, there is 133 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.519 a lot of you know, kind of push pull against 134 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:20.439 the restrictions of gender, restrictions of the patriarchy. And so 135 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.560 I went into this with this like weird understanding that 136 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.040 I was watching a film about a man and a 137 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.399 trans woman in a relationship. And obviously this is not 138 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.519 what the film is. But it's really hard for It 139 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.399 was really hard for me to let go of that, 140 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.679 especially as we get to see this kind of trans 141 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:43.039 masculinization that happens to Sibelle's character throughout the film, and 142 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.279 even watching it through this time knowing and especially after 143 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:49.840 hearing the commentary and realizing like this is not an 144 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:53.559 intention of the filmmakers at all. Right, there did not 145 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:56.159 go in to make a trans film, but I think 146 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.919 this is the place where they kind of inadvertently did. 147 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.600 I really can see a reading of this character, Sabelle 148 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:07.200 as a trans man, as we might understand this kind 149 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:10.240 of character now, who wants to get out of this 150 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:15.080 family restrictions, who may still want to be a parent, 151 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.360 but kind of do it on for lack of you know, 152 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:20.919 like to do it on his terms. Right, If we 153 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.919 think about this character as a trans masculine character, there's 154 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.960 lots of evidence to point against that but I think that, 155 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:30.759 you know, there's a reading in that that I think 156 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:36.159 is really potentially, really complete, and it's I'm waiting for 157 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.039 somebody who's a little smarter than me to put that 158 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:39.200 into a film journal. 159 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:46.679 The transformation of these characters, her with the shorter hair 160 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.519 later on him at the beginning, where he's got that 161 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.919 beard and has to get himself cleaned up so that 162 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.200 he can eventually ask for her hand in marriage in 163 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:58.960 one of the most awkward scenes that I've seen in 164 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.720 a long damn time. I'm just that whole thing with 165 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:06.720 the family and his buddy who's pretending it is just 166 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:09.600 his buddy, right, he's no relationship, but they're pretending to 167 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:12.919 be relations and they can't get their stories straight, and 168 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:16.919 they're contradicting each other. But I have to say, our 169 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.279 main character once he this is no shame to anybody 170 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:22.960 who wears a beer here, I wear facial hair as well. 171 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.759 But when he gets shaved at the beginning, oh my god, 172 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.320 he becomes one of the most handsome people I've seen 173 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.399 in a long damn time. He looks amazing. 174 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.039 You raise a really interesting point, and it's not an 175 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.000 I focused on, but clearly, yes, there is a real 176 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.080 play with gender roles in this that I think is 177 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.360 an interesting element in terms of she is much more 178 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.240 the sexual aggressor, she's much more sexual. You know, they 179 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.600 what they fall into in terms of their behaviors. Definitely 180 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.320 each of them has you know, he has a really 181 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:01.799 feminine eye. For this guy that comes off is very 182 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.799 masculine when we meet him, and he's kind of got 183 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.240 the beard and he's edgy, and you know, she's very 184 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:11.960 pretty and slight physically, and yet their personalities. She has 185 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.200 a strong masculine side, he has a strong feminine side, 186 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:15.879 and it's part of what makes some such rich people. 187 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.559 I mean, what I love about the film in general 188 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.600 is the characters. Their two characters particularly are incredibly complicated, 189 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.320 you know, in a way you just don't get in 190 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:27.720 movies very often. You know, they're suicidal but life affirming. 191 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.879 They are tragic and funny. They're shy and they're open, 192 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:35.720 they're they're both very complicated, and I do think that 193 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:38.200 among them richnesses of them is that, yeah, they don't 194 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:43.000 fit neatly into our gender suppositions about how this is 195 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.039 going to go. Because there have been a million movies 196 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.799 about Star course lovers have been a million movies about 197 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.600 people getting married for convenience have been a million. Everything 198 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:54.039 about this sort of feels like, oh, I've seen that, 199 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.039 and yet there's nothing about this movie that feels like, oh, 200 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:00.320 I've seen that. And I think that it's part of 201 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.440 what the brilliance of the filmmaking is is that the 202 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.159 way those elements are mashed up, and the complexity and 203 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:09.679 richness of the filmmaking and the acting and the writing, 204 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:14.000 everybody's breaking all these cliches, and among them are definitely 205 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.480 gender cliches. And that's really it is an interesting way 206 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:19.480 to think about the movie because it goes all the 207 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:21.360 way through the movie that neither of these people stick 208 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:25.000 to what we would presuppose about how they behave in 209 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:28.279 the world in their gender roles. From the first thirty 210 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.200 seconds we see them, you know, we would we make 211 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.759 all such about suppositions. They look very much in certain ways, 212 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:35.720 and then the whole movie is them not being the 213 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:36.759 way we think they're going to be. 214 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.759 We hear so early on a Kahitas asked if he's 215 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.799 a faggot and like, it's like met with aggression, and 216 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:47.000 his response is, I like, I like I only have 217 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.879 sex with men. I believe is the actual response. And 218 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:54.159 I mean from my very first watch of this, I'm like, oh, okay, 219 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.679 so this is going to be about him like negotiating 220 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.919 that maybe internalized homophobia. I'm not entirely sure, but of 221 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:04.039 course this is not what he seems to do for 222 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:05.840 the rest of the film, apart from the fact that, 223 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.960 like as we see in his sexual relations with Maren, 224 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:16.080 he loves an aggressive sexual encounter. You know, it's hard 225 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.720 hardcore is like. 226 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:20.960 It seems like not quite the right term for it. 227 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:25.960 It's just they're wild, they go wild, they go ham I've. 228 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.879 Never seen one of these star Cross lover movies where 229 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.200 when he turns down her marriage proposal that the person 230 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.159 breaks a beer bottle and slices their wrist right there 231 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.080 and blood sprays all over his face. I'm like, oh 232 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:40.039 my god. 233 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:44.440 Well, it's a very punky film in that way. I mean, 234 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:46.159 that's the thing. I mean, there's a lot of violence 235 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.080 in the movie. There's a lot of violence. There's a 236 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.759 lot of intense sex and intense sexuality. I mean, that's 237 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:53.879 the thing. It's sort of like taking like a movie 238 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.240 like Green Card and going okay, now, yeah, what would 239 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.879 fastbend your meets punk meets you know, do with this movie, 240 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.679 and it gives it this whole other richness. And then 241 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.799 underneath all that when the tenderness comes out, I mean, 242 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.480 the difference between our main characters sex when he has 243 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:11.919 it with this woman who he has a very mixed 244 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:14.960 relationship with, and it's very it's intense, but it's also 245 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:18.399 kind of weird and almost violent and not very emotional. 246 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.679 And then when there's the emotional connected tender sex, it's 247 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:25.720 like a real interesting contrast. It's like, got this really 248 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:29.559 tough punk veneer and this really soft heart of this movie. 249 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:32.360 And I think that's part of why it's I find 250 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.799 it so affecting because it captures both sides as and 251 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:37.919 we all have that. You know, we're all we all 252 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.320 have our fucked up, weird, angry whatever bad parts of 253 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.799 us that don't work. And you know, here's these suicidal 254 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:46.639 people who are desperately trying to find ways to feel alive. 255 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.639 I mean, everything is contradiction, and I think that that's 256 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:53.519 something that Akin really plugs into in human beings, that 257 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.799 you know, whatever we have, we also have the opposite. 258 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.279 And the whole film keeps doing it, and it keeps 259 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.360 you off balance, because because there's enough different and contradictory 260 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:05.360 truths about these people that every time you think you 261 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.320 know where the movie is going to go, where the 262 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:08.799 story's going to go, and where the character is going 263 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.039 to go, it's like, no, they're not. They're going to 264 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:13.879 go somewhere new, and you're gonna have to readjust again 265 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.159 and open up to a new side of themselves as 266 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.559 they're having to do, which I think is really interesting. 267 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.399 I've got my trans reading of this, but we've got 268 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:25.240 this immigration upon immigration layering that's going in here, and 269 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:30.399 we hear this repeated, this idea repeated in a film. Effectively, 270 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.159 if you don't like where you are, go somewhere else. 271 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.759 Always be moving seems to be like the key of that, 272 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.159 even if it does end up in the end that 273 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:43.519 you know, he goes back to the place of his birth, 274 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:45.720 which is also kind of like an interesting thing if 275 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.159 you're looking at this from a trans narrative, because so 276 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.000 many of us who are trans are always going to 277 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.360 be tied back in uncomfortable ways to the places that 278 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.159 we're born, even with if we're still in the same 279 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.200 nation that we are in, because a birth certificate, and 280 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:04.679 that's increasingly the case with the Trump administration. But you know, like, 281 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.919 but we hear this throughout the film goes somewhere else, 282 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.159 like if you don't like this reality, do something else. 283 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.799 It's a little bit of a misnomer. We keep saying 284 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.679 starcross lovers, and they do eventually seem to fall in 285 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.960 love with each other, but they don't end up together. 286 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:24.639 Like the end of this movie is a tragedy. You 287 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:28.080 could say it's a tragedy, like she eventually kind of 288 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.720 has this moment of self realization. It's just like, no, 289 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.559 you know, I have this daughter, i have this husband 290 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.360 or lover, and I'm just not going to go back 291 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:39.519 with this guy and really start a life because they 292 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:43.159 never really started their life together despite them being married 293 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:49.240 in Germany. So it yeah, it's very fascinating that they 294 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:53.240 eventually share a love, but they can never really express 295 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.759 it to one another, and they really shouldn't be together. 296 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.720 I mean, they're probably going to be terrible for each other. 297 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:01.759 If they were a couple, they would probably be a 298 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.480 horrible couple. I would like to think that they would 299 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:09.119 be fine. Happiness and wonderment and all that. They're very 300 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:13.039 damaged people and they live in this damaged world and 301 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.720 this whole idea of them being you know, foreigners in 302 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.240 another world, in another land, and yeah, this whole like, oh, 303 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:22.519 if you don't like it, go home. And they're trying 304 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:26.559 their best to make it here in Germany. And I 305 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.319 want to say, like, she's well, she seems like she's 306 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:31.839 second generation. She's got her folks there. It feels like 307 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:36.799 they have emigrated, you know, in their lifetime. I'm not 308 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.119 sure about him. I guess so, because I guess he 309 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.480 does say that he was born in Turkey, so he's 310 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.640 immigrated in his lifetime. But yeah, it got to be 311 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.559 so rough for these people to be in this foreign 312 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.680 land where you know, they talk about how he knows 313 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:55.279 German better than he knows his own language. They talk 314 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:58.119 about how awful he isn't even speaking Turkish. 315 00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.720 Well, that's the thing. They're both in way, strangers in 316 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.880 strange lands. Wherever they go. They're both neither truly Turkish 317 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:09.000 nor truly German, both and neither you know, they're both. 318 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.799 They don't belong to either society in a neat way, 319 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:16.960 and that is part of the lost quality of the characters. 320 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:19.359 But what I love about this film, and it something 321 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:21.079 that a Keen does with a lot of his movies 322 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.480 in different ways, is he finds very specific things that 323 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.119 his characters are trapped in or dealing with, but they've 324 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.279 managed to be very generalizable to all of us. You know, 325 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.079 that sense of being lost, that sense of not belonging. 326 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.240 You know, he's very specific to the immigrant experience. And 327 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.759 yet somehow the film why does it so that somebody 328 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:40.680 like me who was born in America and grew up 329 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:44.400 in America completely gets it and completely emotionally goes ah, 330 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.599 I know that feeling and feeling I don't belong where 331 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.880 I am? I mean right now in America. A certain way, 332 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.599 I feel like I really don't belong where I am. 333 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:56.720 But I feel like really good storytellers, filmmakers, but novelists, 334 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.720 whatever can make it something very specific about a very 335 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:03.880 different experience than yours. But yet somehow it universalizes. And 336 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.440 I think this film does that wonderfully, that their lostness 337 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.319 is all of our lostness, And I also, I do 338 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.039 I think it avoids the thing of being either a tragedy. 339 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:17.799 It's a truly, for me, a truly deeply bittersweet film, 340 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:20.039 and that's a quality that I feel like we'd yet rarely. 341 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.440 Things are often either truly tragic or they are happy endings. 342 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.000 And I feel like this movie, I think he really 343 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.400 caught something that I don't know that they belong together. 344 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.759 I don't know that they would live happily ever after. 345 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:35.240 I think she makes probably the right choice for her, 346 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.680 and I think it may free him too. But it's 347 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:41.480 really sad. It's really sad that they don't end up together, 348 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:45.440 but it doesn't feel tragic, because tragic can be implies wrong, 349 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.000 like that something bad happen. And what I love about 350 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.240 the end of the film is it breaks my heart, 351 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.359 it makes me cry, but it doesn't feel like they're 352 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.680 making a terrible mistake. And I feel like that's a 353 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:01.440 rare quality in movies, one that I deeply appreciate because 354 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.200 I feel like that's more true to what most of 355 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.680 experience in life. You know, we part from people, relationships, 356 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.920 fall apart, things, and it's really sad, but it doesn't 357 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.079 mean that it's wrong or tragic. 358 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:18.240 This notion of love comes up right. And so in 359 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:24.200 the film, Savelle's family is trying to approve of this 360 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:28.480 choice for a husband and keeps asking, you know, are 361 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.799 you in love? Are you in love? But kind of 362 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:35.160 nothing that the family seems to do to her seems 363 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.319 to be out of love. Like it all seems to 364 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.160 be about restriction and obedience and these kinds of things 365 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.839 certainly not things that I look at as loving. And 366 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.920 you know, and she's under these other, like really extreme 367 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:51.960 cultural weights. They're carried over from Turkey to Germany. So 368 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.279 if she's a German citizen, she's you know, ostensibly playing 369 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:59.319 by what German rules, Western rules, but it's still under 370 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:06.359 these Turkish familial restrictions where she must marry, and she 371 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:09.440 must marry a turt there has to be love involved. 372 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:15.839 Killing herself makes her, you know, a pariah in her family. 373 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.440 She will be, you know, she's She slashes herrist a 374 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.680 couple of times in this film. The second time her 375 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.400 father burns all of her photos, which again speaks to 376 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:30.359 some of this trance familiarity, the textual aspects of it, 377 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:35.200 where you know, shutting off a like all depictions of 378 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.319 a past self is what's happening when these photos are 379 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:42.319 being burned. So she becomes this persona non grata with 380 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:46.960 her family. There's a point even before the photos are 381 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.440 burned where her own brother says, if you do this again. 382 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.279 If you try to kill yourself again, I will kill you. 383 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:58.160 So like this is a lose lose situation across the board, 384 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.400 and it really leaves this question of like what is 385 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.079 love to this family? What does to love mean for 386 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.559 all this? And like you know, so we have we 387 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:09.680 have Sabelle, I think really kind of like trying to 388 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:14.839 determine what their own definitions of love are. They're approximating it, 389 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.559 and I think we do see this in the end 390 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:21.440 that like making peace with yourself, I think is a 391 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.039 piece of that, you know, finding out what love is 392 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.920 and you know, but you can't always rely on this 393 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:34.039 external these external cultural forces to bring happiness along with 394 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:36.799 that that individual clarity. 395 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.400 Well, the reason why they burn the photos and she 396 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:45.519 slashes her wrists that last time, isn't that after he 397 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:48.920 kills her lover and they find out that she had 398 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.519 a lover, And like this whole idea of this marriage 399 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.799 being a sham that really comes out and suddenly they're 400 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.119 disowning her, which is the thing that she was trying 401 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.160