WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:05.440 Welcome to Mortgage Talk with Mark Harriston, the program that 2 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:09.000 not only talks about mortgages, taxes, and interest rates, but 3 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:12.199 Mark and his guest talk real estate trends and you're home. 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.039 He also answers your mortgage questions to help you make 5 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.879 the right financing or refinancing decisions. 6 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:19.839 Now here's Mark Hairston. 7 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.800 Happy day, everybody, and welcome back to Mortgage Talk with Mark. 8 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:26.120 And I'm your host, Mark Harriston, and I own Texas 9 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:29.640 Mortgage Source. We handle all sorts of mortgage financing residential 10 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:33.600 for building or buying or remodeling or building, so keep. 11 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:33.880 That in mind. 12 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.119 And I'm really really excited to have a good friend 13 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:38.520 of mine on my as a guest today. I've known 14 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:42.479 Bill for probably fifteen years now, maybe longer at least 15 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:45.119 at least, and I've been trying to get him on 16 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:47.920 the show for probably six months, but he travels all 17 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.039 the time. So I finally corralled him to come by 18 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:53.960 this morning, and I'm excited to hear his story a 19 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.240 little bit more and share that with y'all. I'll give 20 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:58.200 you a little backdrop on how I met Bill. I 21 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:03.079 grew up in the Catholic tradition. I'm still practicing Catholic. 22 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:04.760 But I met a woman back in two thousand and 23 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.519 five who currently is my wife, named Sherah, and at 24 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:10.200 the time, she was going to this kind of wild 25 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.879 charismatic church called Cathedral Praise, and I thought, well, if 26 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:14.439 I want to stay with this lady, I better show 27 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:16.400 up and see what this is all about. So I 28 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.280 started attending the Cathedral Praise along with going to the Mass, 29 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.359 and I heard Bill preach one time there, and I'm thinking, 30 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:24.640 this guy is different. As a matter of fact, I 31 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:26.799 think I've never told you this, Bill, but I think 32 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:31.079 you're the best preacher I guess preacher I've ever heard. 33 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:33.959 If you call it that preaching, you know, wow, Yeah, 34 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:35.799 because I've heard a lot of it over the years. 35 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.760 No pure pressure. 36 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:42.519 But I want to introduce you as a pastor and 37 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:46.359 a preacher and evangelist and a speaker and a prolific writer. 38 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:48.480 And we want to start here with your book in 39 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:49.959 just a minute, but give us a little bit of 40 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.000 about your background. 41 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.599 Man, thanks so much for having me on the show. Welcome. Wow, 42 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.079 that's an amazing introduction. It's going to be hard to 43 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:02.159 live up to. No, I actually it's a kind of 44 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:04.359 a long history, you know, with with the Gospel and 45 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.120 with the Lord. Grew up in a missionary family house 46 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:10.560 and living all over the world in other countries. And 47 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.120 then your daddy was Avantil he was, yeah, and we 48 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.120 were actually based in Austin here from the age I 49 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.639 was five years old. We moved to Austin, Texas, and 50 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.639 Dad was on the radio, which this station was other 51 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.479 things back then, but this particular station, Jean Bender was 52 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.400 working yeah, all the way back then. Yeah, and yeah, 53 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:32.280 so yeah, we go way way way back. I feel 54 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:37.240 like like a lifelong history with this station. Sure, but yeah, 55 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:41.599 I started I started going to you know, church from 56 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:43.960 the womb, and it kind of grew up with all 57 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:47.240 kinds of different traditions. My grandfather was a Quaker, dad 58 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:51.879 was Wesleyan Methodist, became Nazarene, met the Holy Spirit in 59 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:55.319 the seventies and dived into the Word of Faith movement, 60 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.680 the Assemblies of God and various Pentecostal denominations. Tracy and 61 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.400 I went to Bible College in Dallas and Christ for 62 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.520 the Nations left there and then a pastoring and an 63 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:05.879 Assembly of God church here in town actually and built 64 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:08.719 built an Assembly God Church here in town. And then 65 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.680 from there we ran into Bethel Church and Reading California 66 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.520 with Bill Johnson nearly twenty years ago, and that changed everything. 67 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.439 In the middle of it all, ran into Bill Hard 68 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.520 at Cathedral of Praise and ended up serving over there 69 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:22.400 for a little while. That's where we met you. It 70 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.599 was fabulous, Yeah, an incredible time. And you know, I 71 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.159 would say, you know, the probably one of the strangest 72 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:33.360 theological turns, not that it necessarily changed my particular belief, 73 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:36.800 but in terms of expanding my perspective of how people 74 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:39.919 interact with the Lord in terms of their faith and 75 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.039 their faith journey. I was a Presbyterian pastor for three years, 76 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:46.479 which was really a fascinating all over the board and 77 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:48.960 a half. And then now we're back here in Austin 78 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:52.080 and serving at Bethel Austin, helping to lead their School 79 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.000 of Ministry. So I'm a lead trainer over at the 80 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:55.080 Bethel School of Ministry. 81 00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:56.879 You know, I was so impressed years ago. I took 82 00:03:56.919 --> 00:03:59.960 you to breakfice coffee one day and because your message 83 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.919 resonated with me on different levels and maybe some people, 84 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:04.840 and it seemed to me at the time I could 85 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:07.520 be wrong if memory serves me. You've also studied some 86 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:09.360 of the some of the Catholicistics over the years. 87 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:12.199 Oh, I love that, and I love the early Fathers. 88 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:14.039 I mean like it would go way away, you know, 89 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.120 further back, you know, you know the I mean, I 90 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:21.600 love athanacious, huge fan of Athenation is Athanasius and his 91 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.000 book on the Incarnation, and studied a lot around the Council. 92 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.240 And I see in the architecture of the nice creating 93 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:29.240 Gregor needs some and what these guys were trying to 94 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:32.279 accomplish and asserting the divinity of Christ, you know, to 95 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:34.879 make sure that people understood Jesus isn't just a man 96 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.519 who attained a god like status because of his works 97 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:40.920 or his piety or his devotion. Works, piety and devotion 98 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.399 are great, but you know, they're not going to get 99 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:49.879 you into a position of completely transcending your humanity to suddenly, oh, 100 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.560 you become God. And that's essentially what you know, some 101 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:53.959 of the folks were saying back in that day, and 102 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:56.720 Jesus just a man, and so now we find ourselves 103 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.279 saved by works, or at least perfected in our works. 104 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:03.079 As opposed to what Athanasius was asserting was that we 105 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:07.279 are completely saved and perfected in Christ, and Christ alones 106 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:10.519 are surrender to both His grace and His faith for 107 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.120 our salvation. That becomes the issue. So but he did 108 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:15.920 he did lift us. I mean there's three, I think 109 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.600 three elements. I don't know where you want to go 110 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:22.480 with this today. But here we are like the dominant 111 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:27.040 are tumbling here. But you know, there's theology, which is 112 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.120 the study of God. There's and then there's beyond theology, 113 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.360 there's theophony, which is the appearance of God. And that 114 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:36.959 would be that would be I would say in Acts 115 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:39.600 chapter two, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and not 116 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.959 just God with us, but within us, making us His home. 117 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:49.800 And then there is theosis. And theosis is union with God. 118 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.160 And that is the fullness of the realization of the 119 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:56.199 fact that it is His divinity that defines our humanity 120 00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:59.680 and not that we are God and He is us. 121 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:04.000 We're there's a major distinction there. But as a child 122 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.879 of God, like a child of a father, you find 123 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:11.480 yourself being defined by the family that you're connected to. 124 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.560 And that is that is what I would says. Theosis 125 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:17.079 is and and Athanasians talked a lot about the Alsa 126 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.079 So I love the early I love the early fathers, 127 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.639 you know, uh yeah, Basle the Great and Quitas. Yeah, 128 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:28.240 I thought was Quitas, Polycarp and Ignacious Will and all 129 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:31.439 these I mean all these guys like mastrac Cart. Oh yeah, yeah, 130 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:34.199 my strec Cart was fascinating. Thought. Yeah, well that may be. 131 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.399 That may be a preamble to something I want to 132 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:38.519 mention up front for sure, is your new book. I 133 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:40.639 think you said you've written eight or nine books or 134 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.439 co author. This is the second one this year, second 135 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.519 one this year. Okay, Well, I love the title. I'm 136 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:47.199 gonna put it up here real quick. Make sure everybody 137 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.800 can read this. It's called The Fire Is Not Optional. Yeah, okay, 138 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:53.360 and it's basically recovering the Baptism of Jesus and the 139 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.480 Gospel in the early Church. So what you're talking about 140 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:58.639 now maybe reference of this, but you kind of talk 141 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:00.360 about this new book and what inspire that. 142 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.399 Yeah, A last fall I was I was studying in 143 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.240 Matthew chapter three, and I was studying John the Baptist, 144 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:09.560 and I get to the point in the story of 145 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.199 John the Baptist, which I I've read, you know, many 146 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.879 many times, but you know, certain things will stand out 147 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.560 to you at certain times, and on this day, the 148 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:19.240 part that stood out to me the most was the 149 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.399 part where John the Baptist is addressing the crowd, which 150 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.000 is filled with all kinds of people, including religious leaders, 151 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:26.759 who were coming out to get baptized by him, which 152 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.959 is ironically a new concept for these people. It wasn't 153 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.000 like a mick of a bath where oh it's purification ritual. 154 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.040 I mean, that's what these people were familiar with. But 155 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:36.839 you would never do a mikvait in a dirty river, 156 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.079 and it would certainly not purdue of your sins. And 157 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:42.279 that's what John's doing. He's done and people in the 158 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:45.759 Jordan for repentance, and so even religious leaders are coming 159 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:49.519 out to him, and he realized Pharisees, Yeah, people are 160 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.839 in the crowd. Like he realizes, man, the Pharisees and 161 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:56.399 religious leaders of the community are here to get baptized 162 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:58.360 by me. Wow, you know wow, I didn't know that. 163 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:00.879 And in that moment he looks at him, he goes, 164 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.800 he goes, you brewed vipers who warned you to flee 165 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:07.199 from the wrath to come like it's like he's taunting him. 166 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.639 He's smack talking yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then he 167 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:12.680 realizes how much stock they're putting in him, and he goes, guys, 168 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:15.480 the best I can do for use water. That's my paraphrase. 169 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:18.639 What he says is is I baptize you with water, 170 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.199 but there's one coming after me who's mightier than I, 171 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:23.920 and I'm not worthy to loosen his sandals, and he 172 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:27.680 will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 173 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:30.959 So what he does is when he realizes that people 174 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:34.480 are putting so much weight on what he's doing, he 175 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:38.679 makes sure to tell them, guys, you understand that I 176 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.039 am a four runner for something greater, Like what I'm 177 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.879 doing is a shadow, that's the reality. And so the 178 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:47.360 best I can do for use water. But the thing 179 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.399 that is to come that you actually ought to look 180 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:54.000 toward is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. 181 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.000 And he doesn't say Jesus in this moment, but he 182 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:58.440 knows who he's talking about. When he sees Jesus coming 183 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.799 down the river to down toward the river Jordan, he says, 184 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:03.879 behold the lamb of God, who takes away the sin 185 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:08.720 of the world. Like he recognizes, whether prophetically or intellectually, 186 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.240 he recognizes exactly what this guy is here to do. 187 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.240 How's he going to do that? Well, he's already identified 188 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:18.799 what Jesus is going to bring. The baptism of Jesus 189 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:22.440 is the Holy Spirit and fire. And it's not something 190 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.159 I would say that even the Pentecostal denominations today have 191 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.559 a corner market on because a lot of people are like, oh, 192 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:29.240 you get baptized, and you get all these gifts going 193 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:31.840 on in your life. The fire of God is the 194 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.759 consuming love of God that is absolutely purifying us. People say, well, 195 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:38.399 it's fire of judgment, but he judges us in righteousness. 196 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:42.320 In other words, he judges us as righteous, not based 197 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:44.960 on what we have done, but based on what Jesus did. 198 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:49.039 And so that's the beauty of this baptism of fire. 199 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:53.320 It's in Malachi three he's called a refiner, and he 200 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:58.080 is a refiner's fire, a launderer soap, and so an 201 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.200 encounter with the fire of the Holy Spirit of God 202 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:02.399 will change and transform you. That's really what it is. 203 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:05.919 It's gold going into fire becomes pliable, and if there's 204 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.519 any impurities in the gold, they're exposed. It exposed not 205 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:11.159 for the purpose of pointing at them, but for the 206 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.840 purpose of dealing with them so the gold can become pure, 207 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.720 because that's the goal. The goal is not to find impurity. 208 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:19.879 The goal is to succeed the goal be as purified 209 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.799 as it can. That only happens when gold and fire connect. 210 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.080 And so this is kind of the part that really 211 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.679 smacked me upside the head when I read this, and 212 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.360 that is I was noticing that there was this massive 213 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.360 trend toward water baptism in the United States. Baptism revivals 214 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:42.039 you were blowing up, you know, and you know, especially 215 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:43.919 just in the last couple of years, thirty four or 216 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.879 five years, that it was a major baptism revival that 217 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.960 started at a church in Georgia and just blew up 218 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:53.559 all over the United States. Which is good. And I 219 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.559 don't ever want to disparage anything about baptism. I don't 220 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:00.320 want to minimize any baptism in any form. But what 221 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:04.480 I feel like we have done is we've actually minimized 222 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:09.240 the baptism of Jesus by maximizing upon, or capitalizing or 223 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.080 focusing on the baptism of John. In other words, we 224 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:14.360 made the water of the necessity. We made the fire 225 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:16.879 of the option, and for the people who are like yes, 226 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.399 the fire of the Holy Spirit. I welcome the fire 227 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.360 the Holy Spirit of my life. They have an encounter 228 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:24.399 with the Holy Spirit of God, they may have a 229 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.679 response to that. Both the gifts and the fruit of 230 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.000 the Holy Spirit are meant to be manifest in our 231 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.720 life because of those things, because of the fire of 232 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:36.879 the Holy Spirit that touches us. When that happens, there 233 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.559 is transformation. So I'm always asking people, how's the Gospel 234 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.440 transforming you? Because it's not just a good idea, it's 235 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:49.039 good news that changes you. Right. So the point of 236 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.279 the book being the Fire is not optional, is to 237 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:56.240 invite people back into not a place of minimizing water baptism, 238 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.559 but a place in let's at least elevate the baptism 239 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:05.440 of Jesus to the same. I would say focused importance 240 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.480 that we put on water baptism to help us understand 241 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.000 People say, well, you know what water baptism identifying with 242 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.039 the death of burial and resurrection of Jesus. Okay, well, yeah, 243 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:18.000 that's easy to see, except for this John was baptizing 244 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.679 before the cross, So how is that identifying with the 245 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.240 death of burial and resurrection of Jesus hasn't even happened yet. 246 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.039 So I think from John's perspective, he was a placeholder 247 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:32.559 pointing people toward towards this reality that there's something that 248 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.279 you need that is coming to you. Oh and it's 249 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.200 not going to come by me or this water. It's 250 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.000 going to come in his baptism, which is a holy 251 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.000 spirit and fire. A people say, well, didn't the Disciples 252 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.240 baptized people. They did, absolutely, the baptized people in water. 253 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.960 It was a mark, a symbolic mark of I'm leaving 254 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.279 an old life behind, I'm dying to a former way 255 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:55.399 of living, and I'm stepping into newness of life. But 256 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:58.840 the Holy Spirit didn't wait around for us to get 257 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.600 the order of well through the water first. And then 258 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.000 it's not the way it works. In Acts, chapter ten, 259 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.720 Peter goes to the house of a Roman Centurian named Carnelius, 260 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.519 and when he gets to the guy's house and starts 261 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.159 preaching the Gospel, the Bible says, in the middle of 262 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.759 Peter's talking, the Holy Spirit falls and the fire the 263 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:19.240 Holy Spirit falls on these people, and Peter recognizes it 264 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.080 and says, in that moment he goes the same thing 265 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.679 that happened to us is happening to these guys, and 266 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.679 then he goes, we might as well get him some water. 267 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:32.399 And so after the fact, Peter, it's not like God 268 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:35.480 moves on Peter to dunk these people. Peter's like, well, 269 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:39.080 let's just check that box. And again, I don't want 270 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.639 to minimize water baptism. I just want to point out 271 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.080 the fact that I think two thousand years after the Cross, 272 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.039 after the Resurrection, and after the coming of the Holy Spirit, 273 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.120 we have made the fire of the Baptism of Jesus. 274 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:53.759 We've done one of two things with it. We've either 275 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.919 relegated to fringe groups like the Pentecostals and the Assemblies 276 00:13:57.960 --> 00:13:59.840 of God and well, that's for the weird people that 277 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:01.720 are out there that you know, speaking tongues and prophets 278 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.240 I and do the weird stuff, right, And we've basically 279 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.480 shoved that off to the side, like your strange uncle 280 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:08.559 at a family gathering. It's like put them in the 281 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:13.159 back room, right or we have and there's many denominations 282 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:15.519 that have done this, and I'll go toe to toe 283 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.919 on this one. We have mislabeled the fire of the 284 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:21.399 Holy Spirit of God as a negative, as if it's 285 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:24.919 the judgment of God coming down to just beat us 286 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.840 over the head. Well, I will say that it is 287 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:33.960 the purifying, transforming element of the nature and the character 288 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:37.200 of who he is that takes everything that is contrary 289 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.120 to who he is and burns it out of us. 290 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.960 You call that judgment all day long. But some people 291 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.320 will say, well, judgment is when God comes and beats 292 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:46.240 up all the people who didn't vote like you, or 293 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.960 beats up all the people you don't like, right, because 294 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:50.480 we all have our list of people that we want 295 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:52.759 God to drop the hammer on. Sure, and that's what 296 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:54.679 we're hoping. A lot of people are hoping that's what 297 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.559 the fire is, and I'm like, no, I'm not seeing 298 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.080 that because you see too many instances where God touches 299 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:08.159 people transforms them. There's this baptism of that transforming fire 300 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.399 and what his gold doing fire, It becomes pliable and 301 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.360 so it's now workable by an artist. Right, And that's 302 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:16.240 what you see with people's lives. When they encounter the 303 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.120 fire of the Holy Spirit. They're not selfish anymore. They 304 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.279 become selflessly devoted, like a bond servant of God. 305 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.080 Well, you know it's interesting because it's ironic on some level, 306 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.399 because the scripture, the Gospel reading. The Catholic Mass of 307 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.799 the day Sunday was at a luke where Jesus said, 308 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:34.840 I've come to put fire onto the earth, and how 309 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:36.759 I wish it was already claims. 310 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.120 Yeah, he's not waiting, he's not hoping. I just cannot 311 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.519 wait to beat these people up. That's right, that's right. 312 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:45.840 I agree with you. Well, Hebrews says our God is 313 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.600 consuming fire, and John says in his epistles, our God 314 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.240 is love. So the two things that said that God 315 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.039 is is fire and love. You put those things together 316 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:57.559 and you begin to realize the fire of God is 317 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.039 the love of God, and the love of God is 318 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:01.559 the fire of God. So an encounter with the Love 319 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.960 of God will absolutely leave you changed and transformed. Well, 320 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:06.720 I know you're on fire for the Lord. Come on, 321 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.159 not just the coffee mark. 322 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.519 That's right, Not just for this thirty minute segment. Yeah, 323 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:14.960 for sure, let's shift gears for just a minute. Because 324 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.240 a lot of our listeners are certainly online or Facebook 325 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.279 or whatever, maybe not be religious people, you know, maybe 326 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.559 they're just listened to the show for whatever reason. But 327 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.240 this is a Christian radio show. It's a very appropriate conversation. 328 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.600 But what can you share with folks who are and 329 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.240 maybe in business. A lot of our a lot of 330 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.399 our customers or our listeners are business people. 331 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:39.320 And maybe the economy is not real good. How can 332 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:43.159 you give them hope through your word or your message. 333 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:46.240 So in addition to ministering and pastoring, Tracy and my 334 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:48.320 wife and I I've been involved in a lot of 335 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.320 business and nevers over the years, whether it's you know, 336 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:54.440 marketing resources, books and things like that, and e courses 337 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.360 and master classes and whatnot a lot of those things. 338 00:16:58.360 --> 00:16:59.919 So we know a lot about marketing, a lot about 339 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:04.720 about is stepping into that influencer world. But there was 340 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:06.720 a time where we decided we were going to start 341 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:11.559 a business. Okay, and we actually no it was in Orlando, Florida, Florida, 342 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.079 and we owned a restaurant and it was like a 343 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:17.440 French restaurant, bistro, coffee shop, and just outside of the 344 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.839 Disney World. Yeah, yeah, you know it was but it 345 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.359 was really uh, it was catering to the tourist market. 346 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:28.400 And so I had never run a restaurant before, but 347 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.440 I always wanted to. It's kind of something sort of 348 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:32.000 in the back of my mind. So it was like 349 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.279 I felt like the Lord gave me, you know, it's 350 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:37.400 like gave me this, gave me this grace to like, oh, okay, 351 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.440 you want to get that out of your system. Deal. 352 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:43.839 So here's what it. Here's what it did for me. 353 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.680 And actually I'm super thankful for it. I had never 354 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:51.480 fully understood the pressure that people who own or run, 355 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:56.359 especially small businesses, are under and small businesses and I realized, 356 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.240 especially from the associations that I was in, even though 357 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.559 a lot of money maybe comes into the business, the 358 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.640 amount of expense that people have, it's only going up right, right, 359 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.200 And so the amount of expense that people have means 360 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:13.759 that many business owners are you know, breaking even on 361 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.359 life right right. In other words, their profit margins are thin. 362 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.839 The profit margins are so thin, and so often like 363 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:25.000 sometimes there was workers that we had hired that financially 364 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:26.400 we're doing better in the end of the day than 365 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.000 we were, even though there was right there was a 366 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:30.759 lot of money coming to our hands. It was like 367 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.839 it was there to sustain us, but everything left over 368 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.599 it was like do I hire another person, or do 369 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.559 I hire another three or four five people and take 370 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.920 the pressure off of us, or do I work you know, 371 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.559 eighty hours? Yeah, eighty five hours this week and have 372 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:51.640 a little something to show for it, even you always 373 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:53.960 want to try to put something away. Sure, and at 374 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.039 the end of the day, my goodness, you know, we 375 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:01.359 ended up. We ended up like biting the bullet, you know, 376 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:03.200 and working it out and then all of a sudden 377 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.599 looking at each other and I'm looking at Tracy, going 378 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:06.920 who are you? And She's going to I don't know, 379 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.720 who are you? And we're just like passing every night, right, 380 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.920 strangers and so uh, you know, for years called out 381 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.000 of that business. For years as a as a pastor, 382 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.759 Mark I didn't understand. And I would say this to 383 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.160 every pastor. Maybe this is an important word for pastors 384 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:25.160 who are listening to the show, who have people in 385 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.039 their congregation who are business owners, and you have this 386 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:30.519 automatic assumption that number one, they have a lot of money, 387 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:32.559 because a lot of money comes to their business. You 388 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:34.920 think that they're keeping a lot of that. And I 389 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.920 would tell you, in a lot of cases, maybe something 390 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.559 they are, but in a lot of cases they aren't. 391 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.000 A lot of cases, they're having to make a decision 392 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.960 between whether they hire more employees and have a life 393 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:47.759 and sanity and a marriage, or whether they don't hire more, 394 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:49.480 work more and keep more money. I mean, it's like 395 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.960 and then the other thing is they may wonder why 396 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.279 their business owners aren't more involved in church. And I 397 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.880 can tell you from experience, even as a former ministers 398 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.920 pastor during that time while I was running that business, 399 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.680 church was the last thing on my mind. Interesting, and 400 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:10.599 the idea of going to church was not to serve. 401 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:14.519