WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:11.000 Today's trip Cast is sponsored by the Texas Tribune Festival 2 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:18.839 this November in downtown Austin. Hello, and welcome to the 3 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:23.039 Texas Tribune trip Cast for Tuesday, April twenty ninth, twenty 4 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.000 twenty five. This is Matthew Watkins. And if you are 5 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:32.479 watching on YouTube, I am not recently homeless. I am 6 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:35.479 just dressed like a slob because it's technically my day off. 7 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:40.880 And fun story, eleanor my wife, Susan, who you know 8 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:45.200 very well, accidentally kicked my son's door last week and 9 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.439 shattered her pinky toe, and so we were all up 10 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:52.280 at five am this morning at the outpatient surgical center 11 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.479 getting a metal rod inserted in her toe. So this 12 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:57.640 is why I look this way. 13 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:03.439 That story has so many twists and turns. She accidentally 14 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:07.120 kicked your son's door hard enough to break her toe, yes, 15 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.680 in a way that required a metal rod to be 16 00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:10.799 put into the pinky toe. 17 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:12.079 That is correct. 18 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:14.719 How big of a metal rod can they put into 19 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:15.480 a pinky toe? 20 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:18.640 It's you know, I could show you the extra is 21 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.719 very very very small. Yeah, maybe more of a metal 22 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:24.879 pin I guess is actually would be a better way 23 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.159 of putting it. But yeah, so careful when you're walking 24 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:33.400 around in the dark after putting your kids to sleep. Everyone, seriously, 25 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:37.280 you might have to get a metal rod. 26 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:37.840 Yeah. 27 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.040 So that voice, as you know, is Eleanor Kleimanoff. 28 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:42.920 Hello Eleanor, Hello Matthew. 29 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.319 So I have two other other things to report to you. 30 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.239 Thing Number one is that I was talking to someone 31 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.519 today who will be not named, who mentioned that they 32 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.400 really enjoyed Eleanor's podcast. 33 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.519 Oh amazing love that. 34 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:04.560 As on Twitter some people, some people are calling it 35 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:05.560 the clib. 36 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:08.319 Cast, which I think is great, and it just it's 37 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:10.639 not because Matthew is not equally important. 38 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.280 It's just because his last name doesn't easily translate to 39 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:14.800 the name of a podcast. 40 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:17.000 No, Yeah, that's that's very funny. 41 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.680 The second thing you actually know about but pretend like 42 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:24.240 you don't, which is that listeners of the trip Cast 43 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:27.319 may remember our guests last week, Patrick's v Tech who 44 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.840 joined us, who said the thing he missed the most 45 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:33.800 about Texas was AGB and then as he was signing off, 46 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.199 shouted out, send tortillas. And I'm happy to report that 47 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.560 our friends at AGB did, in fact send Patrick's v 48 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:49.800 Tech tortillas and other AGB goodies. So what a heartwarming story. 49 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.080 That's the impact we talk about when we talk about 50 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.840 our journalism. I congratulations to Patrick. 51 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:58.039 Yeah, no, I love that. And I just do want 52 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.439 to say, like, if anyone from. 53 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.560 I don't know, like a car company is listening, I 54 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:10.919 miss your Carses Mercedes. Yes, I have an update Matthew 55 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:12.520 for you, which you also know about, but you're going 56 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.479 to pretend like you don't, which is that After we 57 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.479 did last week's episode on the race between John Cornan 58 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:22.639 and attorned General Ken Paxton, I ran into Senator John 59 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:26.159 Cornyn at the airport. I advised him to, you know, 60 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:29.199 give the podcast a listen, share if you had any thoughts. 61 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:31.520 We invited him on, as we invite you know, everyone 62 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:34.479 anyone in Texas politics that wants to join us on 63 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:37.879 the podcast to be on. He very politely took my 64 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.280 card and said he would pass it on to his assistant. 65 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:44.800 So we stand by awaiting an RSVP from Senator Cornyn 66 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:46.240 to join us on the podcast. 67 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.120 The ball is in your court, yeah, John Corn's assistant. Yes, 68 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.599 I think I think the only assumption that we could 69 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.039 make if he doesn't join is that the assistant dropped 70 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.479 the ball, and not at all that the Senator would 71 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.080 not want to join our fine podcast. 72 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:02.520 Right, not at all. 73 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.080 That he put that card in his pocket and probably 74 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.639 promptly sent those pants the dry cleaner and never thought 75 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:08.159 of it again. 76 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.719 But I had a nice time chatting with him. 77 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:12.919 So if you would like to come on, and then, 78 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.120 you know, consider that also an open invitation to Attorney 79 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:16.800 General Paxton to join us as well. 80 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.680 All right, yeah, okay, Well this has been good. I 81 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.639 think I think that's enough for the podcast all day. Yeah, okay, 82 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:26.800 So this week we are going to talk about the 83 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:30.800 Texas Lottery. It's been an issue that has been gaining 84 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:34.839 steam all legislative session, and during this session, when he's 85 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:37.959 not presiding over the Texas Senate, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick 86 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:41.480 has been doing his best Marvin Zindler impression, showing up 87 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:44.839 unannounced at stores and a state agency office to expose 88 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.279 what he's portrayed as a growing scandal in the Texas Lottery. 89 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.720 You know, this is a kind of a political atmosphere 90 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:54.079 these days of dark rhetoric and fear, but this has 91 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.439 actually been a pretty fun, old fashioned political scandal. It 92 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:03.160 includes accusations of stolen jackpot store clerks preventing Dan Patrick 93 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:08.120 from entering mysterious back rooms. In multiple resignations of state officials, 94 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.759 We're likely to see a shake up of the agency 95 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:16.199 that funds Texas Eduction later this year the Texas Lottery Commission. 96 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.480 Here to talk about this is Aiden Runnells, a general 97 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.759 assignment reporter for the Texas Tribune. We recently hired Aiden 98 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:24.480 for those who are not familiar from the Las Vegas Sun, 99 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.800 where I believe they never wrote a single story about gambling. 100 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:32.319 But since we hired Aiden here, Aiden has written ten 101 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.160 stories on the topic and they've been great stories to watch. 102 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.800 So welcome Aiden, thank you for having me. And yeah, 103 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:41.000 it's a it's an irony that you pointed out one 104 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.560 of our meetings, and I just can't believe that I 105 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:48.199 almost avoided doing gambling coverage in Las Vegas because it's 106 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:50.519 so complex, and then now that I'm here, it's like 107 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:52.519 half of my brain is just lottery. 108 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:54.720 It's pretty simple here. 109 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:58.199 Yeah, yeah, but it's but it's it's been. It's a 110 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.560 pretty fun story to be involved in. You Yeah, all right, 111 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.399 all right, Well, Aiden has been doing a great job, 112 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:07.839 so thank you for that. And let's just start here. 113 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:10.959 I really struggled with where to start, because there's so 114 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.720 much to this story. These a lot of complicated different 115 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.720 things here, But I'm going to start with just a 116 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.279 very simple question, Aiden, can you tell us what is 117 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:23.680 a lottery courier? 118 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:27.519 Of course, of course, So a lottery courier is a 119 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:32.120 website or an app in which customers can can go 120 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:36.120 on to it and order draw games, which is the 121 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.160 games where you pick your numbers or a scratch ticket, 122 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:43.920 And somewhere in the state, usually in Austin or some 123 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.199 in San Antonio, there is a storefront that will print 124 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.199 the ticket that you order. They will physically scan it 125 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.360 on usually like a Xerox scanner, and then send you 126 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:55.560 a picture of that lottery ticket. And if it's a 127 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.120 winner under six hundred dollars, they'll just cash you the 128 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.040 money through the app, and if it's over six hundred dollars, 129 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.360 they'll actually mail you that ticket so you can cash 130 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.000 it in yourself. So that's what it is on its 131 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:07.959 simplest terms. 132 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:10.480 So like I could play the lottery from my couch, 133 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:14.199 even though as I understand it, right under state law, 134 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:16.600 I'm supposed to have to go in in person. 135 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:19.399 Yes, oh yeah, so yeah, you can order it pretty 136 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:21.839 much anywhere within the state of Texas. Most of the 137 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:26.560 apps have like geolocation, and many will require like scanning 138 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.199 of your ID and facial scan But yes, you can 139 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:31.959 order it from anywhere within the state of Texas. But 140 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.920 the only restrictions on buying it in Texas from the 141 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:40.560 apps are from the apps themselves. There's no law saying, 142 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.680 you know, an app has to have that state restriction. 143 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.720 But there is a state restriction on buying lottery tickets. 144 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:46.959 You have to be in the state when you buy 145 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:48.040 the ticket. 146 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:54.079 Interesting, okay, And so this is a sort of novel 147 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.680 approach that has gotten a lot of attention in recent years, 148 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:02.680 specifically related to two kind of jackpots that have been 149 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:07.199 awarded or not awarded. I guess in recent years won 150 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.839 a ninety five million dollar prize in twenty twenty three 151 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:14.759 and another one for eighty four million dollars this year. 152 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:17.879 Let's start with the ninety five million dollar prize in 153 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.600 twenty twenty three. Tell us what happened with this individual 154 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:27.360 prize and why lawmakers may or may not be upset 155 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:27.720 about it. 156 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:33.720 Yeah, absolutely so. In April of twenty twenty three, what 157 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.759 we now know from a combination reporting from Eric dex 158 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:38.480 Sheimer with Houston Chronicle and a team at the Wall 159 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:44.000 Street Journal. Two overseas gamblers worked with several companies in 160 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:49.159 the state of Texas to order roughly fifty lottery terminals 161 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:56.720 which prints lottery tickets, distributed them across four storefronts, some 162 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.519 of which didn't really sell products. I think one of 163 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:04.399 them sold cooozies and boating trips in Montana and printed 164 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:09.840 ninety nine percent of the possible ticket combinations over a 165 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.879 three day period. And so that roughly amounted to about 166 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:18.120 two point five million physical tickets to essentially game that 167 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.720 jackpot and win ninety five million dollars. And this was 168 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:27.000 done with communication with the top lottery official at the time, 169 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.240 former Executive Director Gary Grief. 170 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:31.960 What do you mean by with communication? 171 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:37.960 Yeah, so from what we know, there were emails and records, 172 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.600 emails and requests from the groups that were trying to 173 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.279 sort of put the scheme together that said, you know, 174 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:51.120 if we come and we order these terminals within under 175 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:52.720 your process, is this legal? 176 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:53.639 Is this illegal? 177 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.360 And what Gary what Grief it said at the time, 178 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:59.320 and what lawmakers had maintained up until about February of 179 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:03.360 this year is we have no purview over lottery couriers, 180 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:07.480 which what they meant by that is current law says 181 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:10.399 that you can't play the game by telephone, and so 182 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:14.799 telephone they took to mean physically, you know, ordering over 183 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:16.879 the phone, like making a phone call, Yes, making a 184 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:21.080 phone call. And so what they told couriers in including 185 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:23.919 one courier that was involved in this bulk purchase lottery 186 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:28.559 dot Com and other couriers which describe themselves as legitimate couriers, 187 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.080 is that because we have no purview, as long as 188 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.320 you're not running the store yourself, you know, you don't 189 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:37.080 need a license. So what these some of these companies 190 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.080 would do is they have LLCs that are owned by 191 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.559 the same parent company. They would operate these stores, request 192 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:49.879 the lottery terminals install them throughout, and then print the 193 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:50.639 tickets that way. 194 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.879 So essentially, like someone went to the state and was like, Hey, 195 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.519 we are going to scam the lottery. 196 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.960 Is that legal? And they said, like, we technically have 197 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:01.480 no grounds in which to stop you. 198 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:04.399 It was in a little bit more vague terms than that, 199 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:08.039 and from my understanding for I've talked with some former 200 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:11.519 lottery officials who told me it was very much a 201 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.600 top heavy operation. So Gary Grief was in contact, you know, 202 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:19.360 limited capacity with these groups, but very little other people 203 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.480 were in contact with these groups, so they sort of 204 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:25.559 flagged that this was going to happen, and they sort 205 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:26.759 of turned a blind eye. 206 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:32.279 All right, So, I mean basically what we're talking about 207 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:36.240 here is where these couriers are creating a system that 208 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:42.559 allows people to buy massive amounts of tickets, whether that's 209 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:49.080 scratch offs or or lotto like right like pick number tickets. Right. 210 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.480 So this is where sort of some of the confusion 211 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.240 has occurred in hearings with lawmakers is So there was 212 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.799 a courier company involved in the bulk purchase lottery dot com, 213 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:02.480 but in Texas at that point they actually hadn't sold 214 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:06.759 a ticket in months, but they used their store to 215 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.879 facilitate this bulk purchase. So no purchase for the for 216 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:12.840 the bulk purchase, as they've described it, nothing was done 217 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.600 through the app. The administrators of the company just said 218 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.759 we're going to print it ourselves. And a lot of 219 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.519 courier apps right now that exist do have limits on 220 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:23.919 like you can't buy more than a thousand tickets in 221 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:26.840 a day. But the same infrastructure was used for this 222 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:27.600 bulk purchase. 223 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:31.159 So there's two problems, right, There's there's bulk purchasing. In 224 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.960 the eyes of lawmakers, right, the problems are bulk purchasing, 225 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:37.600 and then the other problem is couriers, and couriers can 226 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:41.440 in some cases facilitate bulk purchase exactly. Yeah, but lawmakers 227 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.759 have a problem with couriers, even if it's just me 228 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:45.240 myself trying to buy one ticket. 229 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:46.960 Yeah, okay, I understand. 230 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.919 What do we know about the person or people who 231 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:59.000 made this bulk purchase that allowed them to win supposedly 232 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:00.000 ninety five million dollars. 233 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:04.559 We know very little about the people. We know from 234 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.279 the Wall Street Journal article that one of the gamblers, 235 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.919 whose name is escaping me right now, it was very 236 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.279 experienced in going to lotteries and sort of using the 237 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.480 odds in order to you know, win large jackpots. As 238 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.240 far as the companies we know again, lottery dot Com 239 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.840 was sort of one of the big facilitators. Their company 240 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.159 was at one point a legitimate lottery courier service that 241 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:30.080 had sold tickets online mostly I think through a website, 242 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.840 and they worked with this these two gamblers to basically, 243 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.799 you know, facilitate the bulk purchase because they already have 244 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:41.679 the machines, and they figured, if we partner with some 245 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.159 other retailers, we can get go from you know, twelve 246 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.960 lottery terminals to again. I think the final number they 247 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.720 had was about fifty in order to facilitate the means 248 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.480 necessary to print you know, two point five million tickets 249 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.480 twenty five million combinations in a three day period. 250 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:02.240 It's good, such a crazy little little scheme. 251 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.240 It would make a good movie one day, or a 252 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.480 limited Apple TV show exactly. Yeah. 253 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:13.360 Yeah, So okay, Now let's talk about the eighty four 254 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.600 million dollar purchase that has lawmaker's attention this year. Tell 255 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:17.360 us about that one. 256 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:21.759 Yeah, so that one has a lot less I guess 257 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:26.639 suspicion around it. Basically, Texas woman who has remained anonymous 258 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.919 as most jackpot winners over a million dollars tend to 259 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:36.919 do purchase ten tickets through the nation's largest career at Jackpocket, 260 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.120 and so she bought ten tickets. One of them was 261 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:42.759 the eighty three point five at roughly eighty four million 262 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:47.840 dollar jackpot bought at The ticket itself was printed at 263 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:52.600 Winner's Corner, which is a retail store that sells board 264 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.279 games in Austin that has now become famous because of 265 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:00.519 two appearances by our Lieutenant governor in videos he's on 266 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:06.399 X and so she bought those with as legally as 267 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:09.440 someone who can buy a ticket through a courier can. 268 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:11.360 She went to. 269 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.960 Try to redeem the ticket in a march alongside her lawyer, 270 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:19.799 and the Lottery Commission told her, no, we're not giving 271 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:27.600 you that that jackpot until we're done investigating the win, 272 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.960 which the Attorney General's Office and the Texas Rangers are 273 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:37.279 currently investigating the lottery Commission and their proliferation of couriers. 274 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.480 All right, So these two cases have exposed, as Eleanor 275 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:46.559 sort of mentioned, two different problems through the eyes of lawmakers. 276 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.480 The one the practice of both purchasing. I think we 277 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:54.399 can all sort of understand why lawmakers might not like that, right, Like, 278 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.200 if you're playing the odds, I think in the I 279 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.879 think it was the ninety five million dollar one, right 280 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.159 your one of your previous stories said they spent about 281 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.960 twenty six million dollars buying you know, almost all of 282 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.879 the different possible combinations for that lotto pick, which then 283 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.720 you know, guaranteed them to win what like some fifty 284 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.679 something million dollars after tax and that right. 285 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.639 So that fifty four million was just like the main prize. 286 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.080 I went back and looked, and they also won another 287 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.960 extra one or two million in the lower prizes as 288 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.320 well from redeeming those smaller prizes. 289 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:34.399 So you know, that's not fair, and there are a 290 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.039 lot of people who were playing kind of honestly in 291 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.919 that who might have lost the opportunity to win a jackpot. 292 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.279 And also, presumably you have to have a lot of 293 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:47.080 sort of startup capital in order to buy twenty six 294 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.960 million lottery tickets, So I can see why the Texas 295 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:55.519 legislature might not be crazy about that practice. Why do 296 00:16:55.559 --> 00:17:00.320 they not like the practice of buying these tickets really 297 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:04.559 the phone? I mean, you know, presumably you know or not? 298 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.920 Presumably it is is publicly stated the reason that the 299 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:12.640 lottery was created was to fund education programs in the state. 300 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:17.000 Buying them via the phone would presumably allow more tickets 301 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.160 to be purchased and more education to be funded in Texas. 302 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:22.160 So what's the problem here? 303 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.200 Yeah, So the first argument is that it's not in 304 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:27.960 the spirit of the lottery, and that goes back to 305 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.039 that law that we mentioned about not being able to 306 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.359 purchase it by telephone and So during the very long 307 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.920 February twenty fourth State Affairs hearing, there was a point 308 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.359 where Senator Mays Middleton asked, you know, do you feel 309 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.359 they asked courier executives. Three of them went to testify, 310 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.559 you know, do you feel like you're breaking the law? 311 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.000 And they responded, you know currently or we don't violate 312 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:51.799 any of the statutes, and sort of that open up 313 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.920 conversation about sort of circumventing it based off very fine language. 314 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:57.480 So part of it is the spirit. Another concern with 315 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:02.200 both the bulk purchase and couriers is that the regulation 316 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:05.720 that careers currently have, for example, the geolocation, the facial 317 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:08.400 ID scanning, all of that is done basically at the 318 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.720 goodwill of the couriers. Because there's no regulation right now, 319 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.319 it could open up for illegal purchases to miners. You know, 320 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.160 if a child grabs their parents' cell phone and then 321 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:21.240 buys a ticket that's already like pre approved through the 322 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:26.359 app purchases out of state. I mean, you know, if 323 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.200 VPNs are used to trick the geolocation, I don't know 324 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.200 if any instances, but I know that's something that lawmakers 325 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.680 have been worried about. And then money laundering was another 326 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.440 concern about buying tickets, and that goes more to the 327 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.119 bulk purchase. But I think really the illegal sales to 328 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.160 miners and out of state are the big concerns about 329 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:44.599 couriers specifically. 330 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.920 I mean, how much of this is just like I imagine 331 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:51.759 least some of these lawmakers. We have like a pretty 332 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.960 conservative and in many cases conservative Christian. 333 00:18:57.039 --> 00:18:57.720 Legislature. 334 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.720 Obviously, I think some of our lawmakers are at least 335 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:05.000 you know, their priority sort of focus around like morality 336 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:06.720 and Christianity things like that. 337 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.079 Does that come into play at all? Is there's sort 338 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.039 of just like a distaste for the lottery these days? 339 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.880 Absolutely, I would say, you know, there was a hearing 340 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:18.079 in which one representative called the Texas lottery I think 341 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.400 they called Texas the state's biggest bookie. And so there 342 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.039 is definitely also like a natural disdain for the lottery, 343 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.680 and I think you see that as you know, calls 344 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.279 for the lottery to be abolished outright, there were sort 345 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.640 of just a few people saying that right from the outset. 346 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.960 But now that's sort of a really picked up steam 347 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.519 as we've gotten later into the session and as things 348 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.519 keep happening resignations keep being filed and so on and 349 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.359 so forth. So I think there's definitely the disdain for 350 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.039 gambling in general, I think has definitely bled over into 351 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:52.000 the lottery. And there are big gaming interests in the lottery. 352 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.480 The jack Pocket, the company that sold that eighty four 353 00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:00.319 million dollar jackpot ticket, they're owned by DraftKings, which is, 354 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.480 you know, one of the largest sports gambling companies in 355 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:06.440 the world. So there's definitely a lot of the ven diagram. 356 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:11.680 There is very wide. Yeah, I mean, it's it's you know, 357 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.720 worth noting that this conversation is happening during a time 358 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:19.799 where a lot of gambling interests are spending massive amounts 359 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.279 of money trying to lobby the legislature to push to 360 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.599 legalize sports gambling or online gambling or casinos in Texas. 361 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:28.960 And Dan Patrick, who's been one of the sort of 362 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:35.240 leading voices criticizing you know, the lottery, has has been 363 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.519 very resistant to that idea too. Right, So, so the 364 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:42.759 the ideology here, you know, aligns in that kind of way. 365 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:44.519 I want to talk a little bit more about the 366 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:48.720 legislative response to this, but first let's pause and hear 367 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:53.240 from our sponsor, Deliver Texas Sized insight at your next 368 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:57.000 event with the Texas Tribunes Speakers bureau, our reporters and 369 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.480 editors are ready to bring your vental life with text 370 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.920 and analysis only. They can deliver Book us at Texastribune 371 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:10.720 dot org, slash Speakers and also the Texas Tribune Festival 372 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.559 coming up this November thirteenth through fifteen. Tickets to the 373 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:19.079 Tribune Festival are on sale now. Prices will go up 374 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:26.880 May first, so purchase them now at Texastribune dot org. Okay, Aiden, 375 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:32.039 you have spent a lot of time sitting in committee hearings, 376 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:39.160 hearing the discussion of this. What is the legislative response? 377 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:43.440 What might we see come out of the capital in 378 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.759 response to these scandals that have hit the lottery Commission? 379 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.799 Yeah? So, I think the big one that's gotten a 380 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.480 lot of coverage is Cenatebill twenty eight, which is one 381 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.960 of Dan Patrick's priorities, which would criminalize couriers entirely, So 382 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.839 would explicitly ban internet sales of lottery t ticket purchases 383 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.880 and make it, I believe, a class A misdemeanor. But 384 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.079 there's there's also uh, there's also a bill that would 385 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:11.160 ban both purchases. I believe that was authored by Senator 386 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:13.759 Hughes that would just say if you buy all the tickets, 387 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:16.319 then you know that's illegal and we're not going to 388 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:21.880 pay out your jackpot. But right now I think the 389 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.559 lottery itself is in a very treacherous spot on its own. 390 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.880 Uh that will require I think legislative input in order 391 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.559 to fix. You know, the current House budget proposal strip 392 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:38.079 the lottery of all of its funding to zero, and 393 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.039 so you know that can get put back in conference committee. 394 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.319 But at the same time, the lottery is under sunset review, 395 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:46.799 which means that they're going enough to pass a bill 396 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.079 in order to continue the agency's existence. And so far 397 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.559 that neither there's two sunset bills, one in the House 398 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:57.759 one on the Senate. Neither has gotten a hearing so far. 399 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.480 So those are the two big things. There's also some 400 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:07.519 other restrictions on being proposed about how much retailers can 401 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.960