1 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Today's trip Cast is sponsored by the Texas Tribune Festival 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:18,839 this November in downtown Austin. Hello, and welcome to the 3 00:00:18,879 --> 00:00:23,039 Texas Tribune trip Cast for Tuesday, April twenty ninth, twenty 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,000 twenty five. This is Matthew Watkins. And if you are 5 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:32,479 watching on YouTube, I am not recently homeless. I am 6 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,479 just dressed like a slob because it's technically my day off. 7 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,880 And fun story, eleanor my wife, Susan, who you know 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,200 very well, accidentally kicked my son's door last week and 9 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,439 shattered her pinky toe, and so we were all up 10 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,280 at five am this morning at the outpatient surgical center 11 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,479 getting a metal rod inserted in her toe. So this 12 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:57,640 is why I look this way. 13 00:00:58,479 --> 00:01:03,439 Speaker 2: That story has so many twists and turns. She accidentally 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,120 kicked your son's door hard enough to break her toe, yes, 15 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,680 in a way that required a metal rod to be 16 00:01:09,719 --> 00:01:10,799 put into the pinky toe. 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,079 Speaker 1: That is correct. 18 00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:14,719 Speaker 3: How big of a metal rod can they put into 19 00:01:14,719 --> 00:01:15,480 a pinky toe? 20 00:01:15,799 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: It's you know, I could show you the extra is 21 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:22,719 very very very small. Yeah, maybe more of a metal 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,879 pin I guess is actually would be a better way 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,159 of putting it. But yeah, so careful when you're walking 24 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:33,400 around in the dark after putting your kids to sleep. Everyone, seriously, 25 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:37,280 you might have to get a metal rod. 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: So that voice, as you know, is Eleanor Kleimanoff. 28 00:01:41,079 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: Hello Eleanor, Hello Matthew. 29 00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: So I have two other other things to report to you. 30 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:51,239 Thing Number one is that I was talking to someone 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,519 today who will be not named, who mentioned that they 32 00:01:55,519 --> 00:01:57,400 really enjoyed Eleanor's podcast. 33 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:00,519 Speaker 3: Oh amazing love that. 34 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: As on Twitter some people, some people are calling it 35 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:05,560 the clib. 36 00:02:05,319 --> 00:02:08,319 Speaker 3: Cast, which I think is great, and it just it's 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,639 not because Matthew is not equally important. 38 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: It's just because his last name doesn't easily translate to 39 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:14,800 the name of a podcast. 40 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 3: No, Yeah, that's that's very funny. 41 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: The second thing you actually know about but pretend like 42 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,240 you don't, which is that listeners of the trip Cast 43 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,319 may remember our guests last week, Patrick's v Tech who 44 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,840 joined us, who said the thing he missed the most 45 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,800 about Texas was AGB and then as he was signing off, 46 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,199 shouted out, send tortillas. And I'm happy to report that 47 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,560 our friends at AGB did, in fact send Patrick's v 48 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:49,800 Tech tortillas and other AGB goodies. So what a heartwarming story. 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,080 That's the impact we talk about when we talk about 50 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,840 our journalism. I congratulations to Patrick. 51 00:02:56,039 --> 00:02:58,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I love that. And I just do want 52 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,439 to say, like, if anyone from. 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: I don't know, like a car company is listening, I 54 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:10,919 miss your Carses Mercedes. Yes, I have an update Matthew 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,520 for you, which you also know about, but you're going 56 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,479 to pretend like you don't, which is that After we 57 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,479 did last week's episode on the race between John Cornan 58 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,639 and attorned General Ken Paxton, I ran into Senator John 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,159 Cornyn at the airport. I advised him to, you know, 60 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:29,199 give the podcast a listen, share if you had any thoughts. 61 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,520 We invited him on, as we invite you know, everyone 62 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:34,479 anyone in Texas politics that wants to join us on 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,879 the podcast to be on. He very politely took my 64 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,280 card and said he would pass it on to his assistant. 65 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,800 So we stand by awaiting an RSVP from Senator Cornyn 66 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,240 to join us on the podcast. 67 00:03:46,639 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: The ball is in your court, yeah, John Corn's assistant. Yes, 68 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:53,599 I think I think the only assumption that we could 69 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,039 make if he doesn't join is that the assistant dropped 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,479 the ball, and not at all that the Senator would 71 00:03:59,479 --> 00:04:02,080 not want to join our fine podcast. 72 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 3: Right, not at all. 73 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: That he put that card in his pocket and probably 74 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,639 promptly sent those pants the dry cleaner and never thought 75 00:04:07,639 --> 00:04:08,159 of it again. 76 00:04:08,319 --> 00:04:10,719 Speaker 3: But I had a nice time chatting with him. 77 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,919 Speaker 2: So if you would like to come on, and then, 78 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,120 you know, consider that also an open invitation to Attorney 79 00:04:15,159 --> 00:04:16,800 General Paxton to join us as well. 80 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, okay, Well this has been good. I 81 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,639 think I think that's enough for the podcast all day. Yeah, okay, 82 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,800 So this week we are going to talk about the 83 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,800 Texas Lottery. It's been an issue that has been gaining 84 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:34,839 steam all legislative session, and during this session, when he's 85 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,959 not presiding over the Texas Senate, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick 86 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,480 has been doing his best Marvin Zindler impression, showing up 87 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,839 unannounced at stores and a state agency office to expose 88 00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:48,279 what he's portrayed as a growing scandal in the Texas Lottery. 89 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:51,720 You know, this is a kind of a political atmosphere 90 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:54,079 these days of dark rhetoric and fear, but this has 91 00:04:54,079 --> 00:04:57,439 actually been a pretty fun, old fashioned political scandal. It 92 00:04:57,519 --> 00:05:03,160 includes accusations of stolen jackpot store clerks preventing Dan Patrick 93 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:08,120 from entering mysterious back rooms. In multiple resignations of state officials, 94 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,759 We're likely to see a shake up of the agency 95 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,199 that funds Texas Eduction later this year the Texas Lottery Commission. 96 00:05:16,319 --> 00:05:18,480 Here to talk about this is Aiden Runnells, a general 97 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:21,759 assignment reporter for the Texas Tribune. We recently hired Aiden 98 00:05:21,879 --> 00:05:24,480 for those who are not familiar from the Las Vegas Sun, 99 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,800 where I believe they never wrote a single story about gambling. 100 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,319 But since we hired Aiden here, Aiden has written ten 101 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,160 stories on the topic and they've been great stories to watch. 102 00:05:36,399 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 4: So welcome Aiden, thank you for having me. And yeah, 103 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,000 it's a it's an irony that you pointed out one 104 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,560 of our meetings, and I just can't believe that I 105 00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:48,199 almost avoided doing gambling coverage in Las Vegas because it's 106 00:05:48,199 --> 00:05:50,519 so complex, and then now that I'm here, it's like 107 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:52,519 half of my brain is just lottery. 108 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 3: It's pretty simple here. 109 00:05:54,879 --> 00:05:58,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it's but it's it's been. It's a 110 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:01,560 pretty fun story to be involved in. You Yeah, all right, 111 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,399 all right, Well, Aiden has been doing a great job, 112 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:07,839 so thank you for that. And let's just start here. 113 00:06:08,519 --> 00:06:10,959 I really struggled with where to start, because there's so 114 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:15,720 much to this story. These a lot of complicated different 115 00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:18,720 things here, But I'm going to start with just a 116 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,279 very simple question, Aiden, can you tell us what is 117 00:06:22,439 --> 00:06:23,680 a lottery courier? 118 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,519 Speaker 4: Of course, of course, So a lottery courier is a 119 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,120 website or an app in which customers can can go 120 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,120 on to it and order draw games, which is the 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,160 games where you pick your numbers or a scratch ticket, 122 00:06:39,639 --> 00:06:43,920 And somewhere in the state, usually in Austin or some 123 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,199 in San Antonio, there is a storefront that will print 124 00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:50,199 the ticket that you order. They will physically scan it 125 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:53,360 on usually like a Xerox scanner, and then send you 126 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:55,560 a picture of that lottery ticket. And if it's a 127 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,120 winner under six hundred dollars, they'll just cash you the 128 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,040 money through the app, and if it's over six hundred dollars, 129 00:07:02,079 --> 00:07:04,360 they'll actually mail you that ticket so you can cash 130 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:07,000 it in yourself. So that's what it is on its 131 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:07,959 simplest terms. 132 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: So like I could play the lottery from my couch, 133 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,199 even though as I understand it, right under state law, 134 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,600 I'm supposed to have to go in in person. 135 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:19,399 Speaker 4: Yes, oh yeah, so yeah, you can order it pretty 136 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:21,839 much anywhere within the state of Texas. Most of the 137 00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:26,560 apps have like geolocation, and many will require like scanning 138 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,199 of your ID and facial scan But yes, you can 139 00:07:29,279 --> 00:07:31,959 order it from anywhere within the state of Texas. But 140 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,920 the only restrictions on buying it in Texas from the 141 00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:40,560 apps are from the apps themselves. There's no law saying, 142 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,680 you know, an app has to have that state restriction. 143 00:07:42,839 --> 00:07:45,720 But there is a state restriction on buying lottery tickets. 144 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:46,959 You have to be in the state when you buy 145 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:48,040 the ticket. 146 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,079 Speaker 1: Interesting, okay, And so this is a sort of novel 147 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,680 approach that has gotten a lot of attention in recent years, 148 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,680 specifically related to two kind of jackpots that have been 149 00:08:02,759 --> 00:08:07,199 awarded or not awarded. I guess in recent years won 150 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,839 a ninety five million dollar prize in twenty twenty three 151 00:08:11,319 --> 00:08:14,759 and another one for eighty four million dollars this year. 152 00:08:15,079 --> 00:08:17,879 Let's start with the ninety five million dollar prize in 153 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,600 twenty twenty three. Tell us what happened with this individual 154 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,360 prize and why lawmakers may or may not be upset 155 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:27,720 about it. 156 00:08:27,839 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so. In April of twenty twenty three, what 157 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:36,759 we now know from a combination reporting from Eric dex 158 00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:38,480 Sheimer with Houston Chronicle and a team at the Wall 159 00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:44,000 Street Journal. Two overseas gamblers worked with several companies in 160 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:49,159 the state of Texas to order roughly fifty lottery terminals 161 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:56,720 which prints lottery tickets, distributed them across four storefronts, some 162 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,519 of which didn't really sell products. I think one of 163 00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:04,399 them sold cooozies and boating trips in Montana and printed 164 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:09,840 ninety nine percent of the possible ticket combinations over a 165 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,879 three day period. And so that roughly amounted to about 166 00:09:12,919 --> 00:09:18,120 two point five million physical tickets to essentially game that 167 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,720 jackpot and win ninety five million dollars. And this was 168 00:09:21,799 --> 00:09:27,000 done with communication with the top lottery official at the time, 169 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,240 former Executive Director Gary Grief. 170 00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: What do you mean by with communication? 171 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, so from what we know, there were emails and records, 172 00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:41,600 emails and requests from the groups that were trying to 173 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,279 sort of put the scheme together that said, you know, 174 00:09:45,399 --> 00:09:51,120 if we come and we order these terminals within under 175 00:09:51,159 --> 00:09:52,720 your process, is this legal? 176 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,639 Speaker 3: Is this illegal? 177 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 4: And what Gary what Grief it said at the time, 178 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,320 and what lawmakers had maintained up until about February of 179 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,360 this year is we have no purview over lottery couriers, 180 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:07,480 which what they meant by that is current law says 181 00:10:07,639 --> 00:10:10,399 that you can't play the game by telephone, and so 182 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,799 telephone they took to mean physically, you know, ordering over 183 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,879 the phone, like making a phone call, Yes, making a 184 00:10:16,919 --> 00:10:21,080 phone call. And so what they told couriers in including 185 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,919 one courier that was involved in this bulk purchase lottery 186 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,559 dot Com and other couriers which describe themselves as legitimate couriers, 187 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:31,080 is that because we have no purview, as long as 188 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,320 you're not running the store yourself, you know, you don't 189 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,080 need a license. So what these some of these companies 190 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,080 would do is they have LLCs that are owned by 191 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,559 the same parent company. They would operate these stores, request 192 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,879 the lottery terminals install them throughout, and then print the 193 00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:50,639 tickets that way. 194 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,879 Speaker 2: So essentially, like someone went to the state and was like, Hey, 195 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,519 we are going to scam the lottery. 196 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 3: Is that legal? And they said, like, we technically have 197 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,480 no grounds in which to stop you. 198 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,399 Speaker 4: It was in a little bit more vague terms than that, 199 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,039 and from my understanding for I've talked with some former 200 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,519 lottery officials who told me it was very much a 201 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,600 top heavy operation. So Gary Grief was in contact, you know, 202 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,360 limited capacity with these groups, but very little other people 203 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,480 were in contact with these groups, so they sort of 204 00:11:21,639 --> 00:11:25,559 flagged that this was going to happen, and they sort 205 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:26,759 of turned a blind eye. 206 00:11:29,159 --> 00:11:32,279 Speaker 1: All right, So, I mean basically what we're talking about 207 00:11:32,279 --> 00:11:36,240 here is where these couriers are creating a system that 208 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:42,559 allows people to buy massive amounts of tickets, whether that's 209 00:11:42,759 --> 00:11:49,080 scratch offs or or lotto like right like pick number tickets. Right. 210 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 4: So this is where sort of some of the confusion 211 00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:56,240 has occurred in hearings with lawmakers is So there was 212 00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:59,799 a courier company involved in the bulk purchase lottery dot com, 213 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,480 but in Texas at that point they actually hadn't sold 214 00:12:02,519 --> 00:12:06,759 a ticket in months, but they used their store to 215 00:12:06,879 --> 00:12:09,879 facilitate this bulk purchase. So no purchase for the for 216 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,840 the bulk purchase, as they've described it, nothing was done 217 00:12:12,879 --> 00:12:15,600 through the app. The administrators of the company just said 218 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,759 we're going to print it ourselves. And a lot of 219 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,519 courier apps right now that exist do have limits on 220 00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:23,919 like you can't buy more than a thousand tickets in 221 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,840 a day. But the same infrastructure was used for this 222 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:27,600 bulk purchase. 223 00:12:27,919 --> 00:12:31,159 Speaker 2: So there's two problems, right, There's there's bulk purchasing. In 224 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,960 the eyes of lawmakers, right, the problems are bulk purchasing, 225 00:12:34,759 --> 00:12:37,600 and then the other problem is couriers, and couriers can 226 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,440 in some cases facilitate bulk purchase exactly. Yeah, but lawmakers 227 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,759 have a problem with couriers, even if it's just me 228 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,240 myself trying to buy one ticket. 229 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I understand. 230 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:52,919 Speaker 1: What do we know about the person or people who 231 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:59,000 made this bulk purchase that allowed them to win supposedly 232 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,000 ninety five million dollars. 233 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 4: We know very little about the people. We know from 234 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,279 the Wall Street Journal article that one of the gamblers, 235 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:09,919 whose name is escaping me right now, it was very 236 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,279 experienced in going to lotteries and sort of using the 237 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,480 odds in order to you know, win large jackpots. As 238 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:20,240 far as the companies we know again, lottery dot Com 239 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:23,840 was sort of one of the big facilitators. Their company 240 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,159 was at one point a legitimate lottery courier service that 241 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,080 had sold tickets online mostly I think through a website, 242 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,840 and they worked with this these two gamblers to basically, 243 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,799 you know, facilitate the bulk purchase because they already have 244 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:41,679 the machines, and they figured, if we partner with some 245 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,159 other retailers, we can get go from you know, twelve 246 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,960 lottery terminals to again. I think the final number they 247 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,720 had was about fifty in order to facilitate the means 248 00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:54,480 necessary to print you know, two point five million tickets 249 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,480 twenty five million combinations in a three day period. 250 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 3: It's good, such a crazy little little scheme. 251 00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 4: It would make a good movie one day, or a 252 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,480 limited Apple TV show exactly. Yeah. 253 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, Now let's talk about the eighty four 254 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,600 million dollar purchase that has lawmaker's attention this year. Tell 255 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:17,360 us about that one. 256 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:21,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that one has a lot less I guess 257 00:14:21,919 --> 00:14:26,639 suspicion around it. Basically, Texas woman who has remained anonymous 258 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,919 as most jackpot winners over a million dollars tend to 259 00:14:30,919 --> 00:14:36,919 do purchase ten tickets through the nation's largest career at Jackpocket, 260 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,120 and so she bought ten tickets. One of them was 261 00:14:40,159 --> 00:14:42,759 the eighty three point five at roughly eighty four million 262 00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:47,840 dollar jackpot bought at The ticket itself was printed at 263 00:14:47,879 --> 00:14:52,600 Winner's Corner, which is a retail store that sells board 264 00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:56,279 games in Austin that has now become famous because of 265 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,519 two appearances by our Lieutenant governor in videos he's on 266 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:06,399 X and so she bought those with as legally as 267 00:15:06,399 --> 00:15:09,440 someone who can buy a ticket through a courier can. 268 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 3: She went to. 269 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: Try to redeem the ticket in a march alongside her lawyer, 270 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,799 and the Lottery Commission told her, no, we're not giving 271 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:27,600 you that that jackpot until we're done investigating the win, 272 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,960 which the Attorney General's Office and the Texas Rangers are 273 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:37,279 currently investigating the lottery Commission and their proliferation of couriers. 274 00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: All right, So these two cases have exposed, as Eleanor 275 00:15:40,759 --> 00:15:46,559 sort of mentioned, two different problems through the eyes of lawmakers. 276 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,480 The one the practice of both purchasing. I think we 277 00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:54,399 can all sort of understand why lawmakers might not like that, right, Like, 278 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,200 if you're playing the odds, I think in the I 279 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,879 think it was the ninety five million dollar one, right 280 00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:04,159 your one of your previous stories said they spent about 281 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,960 twenty six million dollars buying you know, almost all of 282 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,879 the different possible combinations for that lotto pick, which then 283 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,720 you know, guaranteed them to win what like some fifty 284 00:16:15,799 --> 00:16:18,679 something million dollars after tax and that right. 285 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,639 Speaker 4: So that fifty four million was just like the main prize. 286 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,080 I went back and looked, and they also won another 287 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,960 extra one or two million in the lower prizes as 288 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,320 well from redeeming those smaller prizes. 289 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:34,399 Speaker 1: So you know, that's not fair, and there are a 290 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,039 lot of people who were playing kind of honestly in 291 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,919 that who might have lost the opportunity to win a jackpot. 292 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,279 And also, presumably you have to have a lot of 293 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,080 sort of startup capital in order to buy twenty six 294 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:50,960 million lottery tickets, So I can see why the Texas 295 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,519 legislature might not be crazy about that practice. Why do 296 00:16:55,559 --> 00:17:00,320 they not like the practice of buying these tickets really 297 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:04,559 the phone? I mean, you know, presumably you know or not? 298 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,920 Presumably it is is publicly stated the reason that the 299 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,640 lottery was created was to fund education programs in the state. 300 00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:17,000 Buying them via the phone would presumably allow more tickets 301 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:21,160 to be purchased and more education to be funded in Texas. 302 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,160 So what's the problem here? 303 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, So the first argument is that it's not in 304 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,960 the spirit of the lottery, and that goes back to 305 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,039 that law that we mentioned about not being able to 306 00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:34,359 purchase it by telephone and So during the very long 307 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,920 February twenty fourth State Affairs hearing, there was a point 308 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,359 where Senator Mays Middleton asked, you know, do you feel 309 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:43,359 they asked courier executives. Three of them went to testify, 310 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,559 you know, do you feel like you're breaking the law? 311 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,000 And they responded, you know currently or we don't violate 312 00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:51,799 any of the statutes, and sort of that open up 313 00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,920 conversation about sort of circumventing it based off very fine language. 314 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,480 So part of it is the spirit. Another concern with 315 00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:02,200 both the bulk purchase and couriers is that the regulation 316 00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:05,720 that careers currently have, for example, the geolocation, the facial 317 00:18:05,759 --> 00:18:08,400 ID scanning, all of that is done basically at the 318 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,720 goodwill of the couriers. Because there's no regulation right now, 319 00:18:11,759 --> 00:18:15,319 it could open up for illegal purchases to miners. You know, 320 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,160 if a child grabs their parents' cell phone and then 321 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,240 buys a ticket that's already like pre approved through the 322 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:26,359 app purchases out of state. I mean, you know, if 323 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,200 VPNs are used to trick the geolocation, I don't know 324 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,200 if any instances, but I know that's something that lawmakers 325 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,680 have been worried about. And then money laundering was another 326 00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:37,440 concern about buying tickets, and that goes more to the 327 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,119 bulk purchase. But I think really the illegal sales to 328 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,160 miners and out of state are the big concerns about 329 00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:44,599 couriers specifically. 330 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 2: I mean, how much of this is just like I imagine 331 00:18:49,839 --> 00:18:51,759 least some of these lawmakers. We have like a pretty 332 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:55,960 conservative and in many cases conservative Christian. 333 00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 3: Legislature. 334 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: Obviously, I think some of our lawmakers are at least 335 00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:05,000 you know, their priority sort of focus around like morality 336 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,720 and Christianity things like that. 337 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,079 Speaker 3: Does that come into play at all? Is there's sort 338 00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:11,039 of just like a distaste for the lottery these days? 339 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I would say, you know, there was a hearing 340 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,079 in which one representative called the Texas lottery I think 341 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:21,400 they called Texas the state's biggest bookie. And so there 342 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,039 is definitely also like a natural disdain for the lottery, 343 00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:27,680 and I think you see that as you know, calls 344 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,279 for the lottery to be abolished outright, there were sort 345 00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:32,640 of just a few people saying that right from the outset. 346 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,960 But now that's sort of a really picked up steam 347 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,519 as we've gotten later into the session and as things 348 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,519 keep happening resignations keep being filed and so on and 349 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:45,359 so forth. So I think there's definitely the disdain for 350 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,039 gambling in general, I think has definitely bled over into 351 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:52,000 the lottery. And there are big gaming interests in the lottery. 352 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,480 The jack Pocket, the company that sold that eighty four 353 00:19:55,559 --> 00:20:00,319 million dollar jackpot ticket, they're owned by DraftKings, which is, 354 00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:02,480 you know, one of the largest sports gambling companies in 355 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,440 the world. So there's definitely a lot of the ven diagram. 356 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: There is very wide. Yeah, I mean, it's it's you know, 357 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,720 worth noting that this conversation is happening during a time 358 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,799 where a lot of gambling interests are spending massive amounts 359 00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:22,279 of money trying to lobby the legislature to push to 360 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,599 legalize sports gambling or online gambling or casinos in Texas. 361 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,960 And Dan Patrick, who's been one of the sort of 362 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:35,240 leading voices criticizing you know, the lottery, has has been 363 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,519 very resistant to that idea too. Right, So, so the 364 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,759 the ideology here, you know, aligns in that kind of way. 365 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,519 I want to talk a little bit more about the 366 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:48,720 legislative response to this, but first let's pause and hear 367 00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:53,240 from our sponsor, Deliver Texas Sized insight at your next 368 00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:57,000 event with the Texas Tribunes Speakers bureau, our reporters and 369 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,480 editors are ready to bring your vental life with text 370 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,920 and analysis only. They can deliver Book us at Texastribune 371 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:10,720 dot org, slash Speakers and also the Texas Tribune Festival 372 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,559 coming up this November thirteenth through fifteen. Tickets to the 373 00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:19,079 Tribune Festival are on sale now. Prices will go up 374 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:26,880 May first, so purchase them now at Texastribune dot org. Okay, Aiden, 375 00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:32,039 you have spent a lot of time sitting in committee hearings, 376 00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:39,160 hearing the discussion of this. What is the legislative response? 377 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,440 What might we see come out of the capital in 378 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,759 response to these scandals that have hit the lottery Commission? 379 00:21:46,839 --> 00:21:49,799 Speaker 4: Yeah? So, I think the big one that's gotten a 380 00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:52,480 lot of coverage is Cenatebill twenty eight, which is one 381 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,960 of Dan Patrick's priorities, which would criminalize couriers entirely, So 382 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,839 would explicitly ban internet sales of lottery t ticket purchases 383 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,880 and make it, I believe, a class A misdemeanor. But 384 00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:08,079 there's there's also uh, there's also a bill that would 385 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:11,160 ban both purchases. I believe that was authored by Senator 386 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,759 Hughes that would just say if you buy all the tickets, 387 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:16,319 then you know that's illegal and we're not going to 388 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,880 pay out your jackpot. But right now I think the 389 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,559 lottery itself is in a very treacherous spot on its own. 390 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,880 Uh that will require I think legislative input in order 391 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,559 to fix. You know, the current House budget proposal strip 392 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,079 the lottery of all of its funding to zero, and 393 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,039 so you know that can get put back in conference committee. 394 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:44,319 But at the same time, the lottery is under sunset review, 395 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,799 which means that they're going enough to pass a bill 396 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,079 in order to continue the agency's existence. And so far 397 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,559 that neither there's two sunset bills, one in the House 398 00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:57,759 one on the Senate. Neither has gotten a hearing so far. 399 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,480 So those are the two big things. There's also some 400 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:07,519 other restrictions on being proposed about how much retailers can 401 00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:09,960 get paid because right now they get about five percent 402 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:12,880 cut of the ticket sales. Some people want to increase that, 403 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,000 some people want to decrease that. There's a bill that 404 00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:19,680 would you know, sort of restrict how much a jackpot 405 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,839 can get paid out relative to how much is being 406 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,519 donated to the Education fund, so it's sort of rebalance 407 00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:28,039 that proportion. So there's a lot of little things, but 408 00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:30,359 I think the two big things right now really are 409 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,319 the courier ban, which unanimously passed in the Senate, and 410 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,240 then again whether they're going to, you know, let the 411 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:38,400 lottery have its money back. 412 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,519 Speaker 3: What what does the lottery fund in Texas? 413 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 4: So the lottery funds to primary things, the education education, 414 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,039 I think their education a yearly. I forget the name 415 00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:52,920 of the fund right now, but it gets about two 416 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,599 billion a year in funding K twelve education, Yes, K 417 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,640 through twelve public education gets about two billion dollars, give 418 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,960 or take. And then they also have several millions of 419 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:06,000 dollars a year that go to veterans programs. So they 420 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,920 have a specific game that goes to the proceeds go 421 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,279 to veteran charities and things like that. 422 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:12,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so. 423 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,839 Speaker 2: I'm from Georgia originally, and Georgia has a like program, 424 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,839 and the lottery is how they fund what they call 425 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:21,240 the Hope Scholarship, which basically says, if you have I 426 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:24,279 think it's like a B plus average in high school, 427 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,319 you can go to any state university for free. And 428 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,680 it's been like this huge program to really sort of 429 00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:33,720 keep people in in Georgia, keep people in state, keep 430 00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:34,480 them going to school there. 431 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,519 Speaker 3: I mean you go to the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech. 432 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: It often is criticized, I think because it you know, 433 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:43,319 it does there's no income requirement, so it sometimes goes 434 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,119 people who maybe could afford to go there, but they 435 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,480 want to keep those people in state. So the lottery 436 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,359 there is very enmeshed in like that Hope Scholarship. I 437 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,319 mean that two billion dollars to education, Like despite our 438 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,119 recent investments in education here in Texas, I think imagine 439 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,599 people kind of want to there's a motivation to keep 440 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,440 that money coming in. 441 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,799 Speaker 4: I think one of the most interesting things I've heard 442 00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:04,920 in these hearings is actually, Lawmick, you're sort of writing 443 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,200 off that two billion during the first hearing that had 444 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,519 the lottery, and at the February twelfth Senate Finance hearing, 445 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,960 I think somebody said like, oh, well, that amounts to 446 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,279 about two three days of public education, and so we 447 00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:18,480 could do we could do with that. I think Senator 448 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,960 Perry said, we're addicted to the dollars. So there is 449 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,839 some sort of you know, conflict on how badly. We 450 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,799 really do need the two billion dollars. But I was surprised, 451 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:29,480 I think personally, to hear people saying they're willing to 452 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,799 lose that money if it means getting rid of you know, 453 00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:33,839 what they call a corrupt agency. 454 00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, we just put all this money to 455 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:35,799 public education. 456 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,519 Speaker 2: So I guess you could, you know, you could say, like, 457 00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:40,559 you know, it evens out in the end. You add some, 458 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,200 you take some back, and that's the public education story. 459 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 460 00:25:43,759 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 4: Also among this is you know, charitable Bingo is also 461 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,640 a game that runs under the Texas Lottery Commission, and 462 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,440 they're sort of being held hostage amid all of this confusion. 463 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,640 There is a bill right now in this Senate that 464 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:05,119 would sort of life flight the Bingo Commission out of 465 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,480 the Texas Lotteries priview and put it under the I 466 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,480 think the Department of Licensing and Regulation. So I think 467 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,599 it'll be interesting to see that bill as well, you know, 468 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,880 whether or not the lottery stays, to see how much 469 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,400 they trust the agency going forward if they move this 470 00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:23,200 you know game to another agency entirely. 471 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: Aiden you talk about kind of trusting the agency, I mean, 472 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:30,039 the agency has been under a significant amount of heat 473 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,079 this legislative session. It has been interesting to watch kind 474 00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:36,799 of their response. Right you had the Commission sort of 475 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:40,000 saying we can't regulate these couriers, and then the legislature 476 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:43,680 getting mad at them and then sort of being like, well, actually, 477 00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:46,759 maybe we can legislate these careers been there have been 478 00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:52,359 a couple resignations. Can you help me kind of understand, 479 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,440 like how much of this is you know, neglect or 480 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,400 poor management by an agency and how much of is 481 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,240 just like them not having the tools, whether it's you know, 482 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,519 statute saying you can't do this, or any kind of 483 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:12,519 enforcement capability to prevent these things that lawmakers don't like 484 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:13,400 from happening. 485 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, I think a lot of it is that agency 486 00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:19,400 sort of you know, I don't know if I have 487 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,720 the authority right now based on my reporting to say 488 00:27:21,759 --> 00:27:26,839 outright malpractice, but you know, they did on February twenty 489 00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:32,200 fourth announce that they would start censuring any retail stores 490 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,599 that we're partnering with couriers, And that was done the 491 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,039 monday before. They were in two different hearings, hearings, one 492 00:27:39,039 --> 00:27:41,240 of them being on Senate Bill twenty eight. So they 493 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,000 sort of turned on its head after years of saying, oh, well, 494 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,200 we have no purview over these couriers, we can't regulate them, 495 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,720 we need to wait for an opinion from the Attorney 496 00:27:49,799 --> 00:27:53,599 General's office to suddenly saying, actually, if you're with these, 497 00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:56,640 you know, if you're partnering with these couriers, we're going 498 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,680 to pass a rule saying you're gonna have your license 499 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,960 revote revoked. The vote finalizing that rule actually happens today 500 00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:09,559 on Tuesday, and so I don't think there's any expectations 501 00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:12,240 about there being contention. I think it's expected to pass 502 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:15,839 pretty easily and unanimously. But it really does come down 503 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,160 to I think the agency either not wanting to or 504 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:23,440 just not feeling the need to regulate these until it 505 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,160 reached ahead. Could there have been legislation, you know, that 506 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,079 could have attacked this problem earlier? I mean Senator Hall 507 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,119 had I think was Senate Bill eighteen twenty last legislative session. 508 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,720 That was exactly it is what Senate Bill twenty eight 509 00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:40,559 is now. So there was an attempt. This wasn't a 510 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:44,400 problem that is completely blindsided. Lawmakers have been having conversations 511 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,200 about this in public hearing since twenty twenty two, so 512 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:51,640 I guess there is some culpability there in not recognizing 513 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,920 it as a problem that would grow, and sales among 514 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,559 curriers have grown a lot too in those few years. 515 00:28:58,119 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: Aden you with the lawyer of the woman who won 516 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:07,000 the eighty four million dollar jackpot that she has not 517 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,480 been able to collect yet, tell me a little bit 518 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:16,000 about her situation. I mean, that's a lot of money 519 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,160 at stake for one individual person here. 520 00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, So from my understanding, she's just a normal woman 521 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,480 in somewhere in Texas. Her lawyer wouldn't tell me where, 522 00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:30,400 and she just played on jackpocket because she didn't like 523 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,640 going to the gas station alone, and so she just 524 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,799 bought ten tickets on the app and one big and 525 00:29:36,839 --> 00:29:40,440 then you know, got a lawyer, as many people who 526 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,599 win these jackpots do, and they took the ticket from 527 00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:48,160 her and sort of lying in wait. The lawyer when 528 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,839 I when I talked to him, he said, they're waiting 529 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,400 on litigation. It's not an impossibility they may sue to take, 530 00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:58,960 you know, to get this winning that she as it 531 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,160 appears she'd of a fair winning ticket. But I think 532 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,759 there's also some hope that those two investigations will wrap 533 00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:07,839 up sooner rather than later, and she'll just get her 534 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,839 money and be on her way. So there's some optimism happening. 535 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,759 Speaker 2: Can you imagine like playing the lottery for years not winning, 536 00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:18,680 and you finally win, like at the at the exact 537 00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:21,200 moment that the wind changes on this and now you're 538 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:23,720 like eighty three million dollars just. 539 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 3: Waiting for you. 540 00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: It's really an amazing confluence of great luck and terrible luck. 541 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 542 00:30:31,359 --> 00:30:33,559 Speaker 3: Yes, I honestly feel like you. 543 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:35,839 Speaker 2: She must be like, maybe the universe doesn't want me 544 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,759 to have this money, like there's something is in my way. 545 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 4: There's a there's another lawsuit I don't think has other 546 00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:46,400 people have written about it. It's smaller where the man 547 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,559 who won the Lotto Texas jackpot after the ninety five 548 00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:54,359 million dollar purchase is suing the Texas Lottery Commission saying, well, 549 00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:57,799 they won by cheating, so that should have been my 550 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,720 money that should have never been paid out. So there's 551 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,680 sueing the company that won the ninety five million purchase 552 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,759 saying well, I think that money belongs to me because 553 00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:08,839 you cheated, And so he wants one hundred million dollars. 554 00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:13,039 Speaker 2: Sames, I would also like us to be sponsored by 555 00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:15,279 one hundred million dollars one hundred million dollars. 556 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So there's one last thing I want to 557 00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:24,640 cover on this, which is the the Dan Patrick web show. 558 00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:27,839 I mentioned earlier at the start that he's been doing 559 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,920 his best Marvin Zindler impression. I will ask y'all later 560 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,039 whether either of you know who Marvin Zindler is. 561 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I keep laughing, but I'm gonna be honest, I'm 562 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,000 not sure. 563 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: Reference Okay, We're going to save that to the ends 564 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,119 because I want to talk a little bit about this. 565 00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:45,440 This is basically he has been making videos, posting them 566 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,160 on social media right where he shows up and interviews 567 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,759 people involved in this, including at the store winners Corner 568 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:54,920 that we've already mentioned. Just describe for us briefly these 569 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,480 these videos aiden because I'm really enjoying them. 570 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean so when the first one came out, 571 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,519 I was just stounded. So Dan Patrick is standing outside 572 00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:04,559 of this storefront, and I've been to several of these 573 00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:06,640 storefronts myself and they're really not that large. So he 574 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,200 starts filming in front of the storefront. Then he goes 575 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,519 inside and sort of questions the uh, you know, the 576 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,160 manager as it were. That's at like the cashier register 577 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,599 and saying like, can I see the back? These are? 578 00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,839 You know, you guys sell board games. That's kind of strange. 579 00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:24,279 In his latest video, he actually swabs one of the 580 00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:25,960 board games for dust to. 581 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: Point out I would like to I would like to 582 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,559 clarify too, which who who among us doesn't have a 583 00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:34,839 seller of baton board game gathering dusts. 584 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 3: That's gonna say a dusty settlers a katan. 585 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,599 Speaker 4: And so you know he in the first video, he uh, 586 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:44,680 you know, has sort of a back and forth with 587 00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:47,480 the manager and then they get a lawyer on the phone, 588 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,640 and then he mentions that they actually did get to 589 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,759 see the back this time. I think in his latest 590 00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,640 video they didn't. I thought was interesting. His latest video, 591 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,839 he also took a visit to the Texas Lottery Commission 592 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,359 itself and he was like, well, their office is empty, 593 00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:06,599 and I have to give props to his camera person 594 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,960 because there's a shot in there of there's like a 595 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,240 whole bunch of frames of lottery officials and there's one 596 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:16,720 right in the middle that's missing from the lottery director 597 00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:21,440 who resigned on last Monday. And they did just a 598 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,119 little like something out of the office, like a little 599 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,559 zoom just done too the empty part and then back 600 00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:28,480 over to Patrick as he keeps sort of giving his monologues. 601 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:31,000 So it's there's a good amount of production that's gone 602 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,400 into I think there's some like side transitions and things. 603 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,279 So whenever I went out and visited these stores, I 604 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:39,839 think I told my editor I was doing my best 605 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,119 Dan Patrick impression, trying to live true to form. 606 00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:44,119 Speaker 2: No, I mean Patrick's been doing this a lot, Like 607 00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:47,559 he did this to a THHC store which carded him, right, yeah, 608 00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:49,640 and they they carded him as per you know your 609 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,839 you know the regulation requires, So yeah, he's getting out there, 610 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:53,640 getting out to people. 611 00:33:54,359 --> 00:33:58,599 Speaker 1: I watched these I watched the one at Winter's Corner 612 00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:03,519 before we came on, and it's just like, I have 613 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,799 such sympathy and agony for this this store manager who's 614 00:34:07,839 --> 00:34:10,719 like he's like calling up his boss. He's like, the 615 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,559 Lieutenant governor wants me to show him behind this door, 616 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,079 and you know, I guess like they cut off then, 617 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,960 and clearly whoever he called on the phone like told 618 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,280 them not to let the Lieutenant governor back, which is 619 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,480 just like, oh man, this is I feel terrible for you. 620 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,559 Patrick is in his in all fairness, like very nice 621 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,719 to this guy and like sort of says like, I 622 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,760 recognize you're just doing your job here, but high comedy. Okay, 623 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,280 So Marvin Zendler, Aiden, did you look up Marvin Zendler? 624 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,360 We were talking about it in slacks I did. Yeah, okay, 625 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,920 So Marvin Zindler, are you familiar Eleanor with the musical 626 00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:53,400 best little whorehouse in Texas? Yes? I am so. For 627 00:34:53,400 --> 00:35:00,800 for over a century, the Chicken Ranch, a brothel in Lagrain, Texas, 628 00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:05,840 popular among Texas A and M students back in the day, 629 00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:07,480 I understand. 630 00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 3: Back in the day. 631 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: How back back in the day. Yes, it no longer exists. 632 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,079 For the record, I went to Texas A and M 633 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:20,039 well after nineteen seventy three when Marvin Zimmler, a TV 634 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:26,599 reporter for Eyewitness News in Houston, showed up to bust 635 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,400 the Chicken Ranch. He is this sort of flamboyant legend 636 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:38,079 of Houston television, most known for his sort of you 637 00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:43,719 know what is it? Sort of stake out journalism. He 638 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,880 helped get the Chicken Ranch shut down and then did 639 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,599 some reporting on how it was allowed to operate for 640 00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:53,920 so long, where he got into a confrontation with the 641 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,639 Fayette County sheriff at the time, who apparently broke two 642 00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:01,199 of his ribs and ripped his two pay off his 643 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,519 head in the confrontation. The film from that was destroyed 644 00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:09,480 in the confrontation, but Katie r. A K kept the 645 00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:14,559 audio and yes, Marvin Zendler his legendary sign off Marvin 646 00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:18,519 Zendler eyewitness news classic. So look it up. 647 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,199 Speaker 3: I love that. That's a classic Texas story. 648 00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:25,599 Speaker 2: Yes, and I mean sort of relatedly, we should mention 649 00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:28,280 it's funny timing we're doing this now. You mentioned Eric 650 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,599 dex Sheimer from He's a Chronicle who really broke this 651 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,119 story initially about the bulk purchase sound. He just over 652 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:40,320 the weekend was named the Texas Managing Editors Reporter of 653 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,199 the Year, which really restores some dignity to the title 654 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,800 base after a really low point for it last year 655 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,440 when I was the Star report for the year. 656 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,679 Speaker 3: So Eric dex Seimer. 657 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,119 Speaker 5: By the way, by the way, I just like I 658 00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:59,079 want to congratulate Eric Eric dex Sheimer, which was not 659 00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:01,440 at all a venue to mentioned that I was text 660 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,320 managing Editor's reported. 661 00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Okay, Eleanor we're going to need 662 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,039 you to work on your Marvin Zindler like sign off 663 00:37:11,159 --> 00:37:13,719 For next week's podcast, see if you can workshop some 664 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,280 things moving forward here. But that's about all that we 665 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,880 are going to do today. Thank you to Aiden for 666 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,840 your great reporting on this topic. Thank you to Rob 667 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,280 and Chris are producers and rob our theme music composer. 668 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:40,199 We will talk to you all next week.