1 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:24,920 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior Elections correspondent at The 3 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,879 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:30,239 --> 00:00:33,359 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:33,359 --> 00:00:37,200 the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST. 6 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:40,320 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,679 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,000 Our guest today is Chris Bray, journalist, historian, former soldier, 9 00:00:49,679 --> 00:00:53,840 whiskey enthusiast, and the guy behind the Tell Me How 10 00:00:53,880 --> 00:01:00,479 This Ends substack always an interesting and informative read. Chris, 11 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,640 thank you so much for joining us on this edition 12 00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:06,000 of the Federalist Radio Hour. Thanks for having me. I'll 13 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,200 drump jump right to the uh, the core of our 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,200 conversation here and now I don't want to put you on 15 00:01:12,239 --> 00:01:15,719 the spot, but can you tell me this how does 16 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,519 it end? And I asked, I ask you that as 17 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:22,640 a guy who you know, who takes a look at 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,920 the issues of the day and and and oftentimes projects 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,319 and see where this is going. But you also look 20 00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:31,239 in into the past, and I can tell you the 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,480 America today and we are we are people of about 22 00:01:35,519 --> 00:01:39,120 the same age range. This is not the America I 23 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:41,719 grew up in. In so many places, it is a 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,079 strange land and I am an absolute stranger. So from 25 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,519 Minneapolis and you know the home of George Floyd and 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:58,120 now Renee Good, you know, from Minnesota and it's Somali 27 00:01:58,159 --> 00:02:03,920 welfare scandal, to California where there's plenty of scandal going 28 00:02:03,959 --> 00:02:08,120 on there, to the death culture of the left in 29 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:14,520 this country, including the assassination of Charlie Kirk of course 30 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,680 just a few months back. How does this thing end? 31 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: That's a big box to unpack. But the first thing 32 00:02:26,159 --> 00:02:29,439 I want to say about it is when you feel 33 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,840 like you're living in death cult, decline America, that you 34 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:36,639 don't recognize that you didn't grow up in. Turn off 35 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,639 the computer, turn off the television, get in your car, Yeah, 36 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:46,000 go elsewhere. There's I think we have now performative America, 37 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:50,919 Media America and America America, and they're not the same place. 38 00:02:52,439 --> 00:02:56,919 And if you go out into the country. I live 39 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,439 in Los Angeles and I have to escape at some times, 40 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,919 So I just get in the car and get out, 41 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,680 and like over the weekend and through Monday, I went 42 00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:10,560 up camping in northern central California, and I drove through 43 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,280 a town called Taft, which is a big oil producing 44 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:17,719 town up Highway thirty three, which is called the Petroleum 45 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,599 Highway in California, and then turned and then went up 46 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,159 through a big cattle ranching region and when you drive through. 47 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:28,840 I drove a couple hundred miles through oil and cattle 48 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,439 country in California, in the bluest and most captured of states, 49 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,199 and went camping with normal people. And through all of 50 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:44,159 that I never saw any sign of all of the 51 00:03:44,199 --> 00:03:47,919 total insanity that has descended on us. And I spent 52 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:50,919 I was going camping with some people who didn't show 53 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,520 up the first night I went up there. So I 54 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,879 stayed in a hotel in a little town that's majority 55 00:03:56,879 --> 00:04:01,280 of Latino with a very large which population. I looked 56 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,080 this up. I sat in Coalinga, California and said, how 57 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,280 many people here as citizens? Because the main street through 58 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:13,439 Coalinga is lined with these little shops that say, you know, 59 00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:15,840 there's no to republic here, there's immigration lawyer here, we 60 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,120 can do your immigration paperwork for you. So I said, 61 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,639 sitting in that town, there are a whole lot of 62 00:04:22,639 --> 00:04:24,399 people here who aren't citizens, and there are a whole 63 00:04:24,439 --> 00:04:26,800 lot of people here who have to be worried about deportations, 64 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,319 and I showing up and how many you know, how 65 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:33,639 many protests, how many no ice here signs? Did I see? 66 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,959 How much chaos and disorder did I see in the 67 00:04:36,959 --> 00:04:41,639 streets of a small agricultural town sort of in a 68 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,079 pivotal point right between oil producing California and cattle producing California. 69 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,639 How much chaos and misery did I see in this 70 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,680 town where a whole bunch of people aren't from here, 71 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,279 and a whole bunch of people have to be thinking 72 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,839 about ice and worrying about it. I saw no chaos. 73 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:01,879 I saw notice, I saw no misery. It's a peaceful, 74 00:05:01,959 --> 00:05:04,360 quiet small town. Is that, Chris Chris? 75 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: Is that because the uh, the leftist, the Marxist won't 76 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,519 they won't come there, because the population doesn't allow the 77 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,240 Latinos there to be called latin x. 78 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,439 Speaker 2: That could explain a lot, you know, It's fascinating. I've 79 00:05:22,439 --> 00:05:28,079 been watching for a long time for the the this 80 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,399 would open another kettle of fish, but watching for the 81 00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:35,199 ice raids to show up in force in agricultural country 82 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:37,240 in California, and so far, I don't see that happening. 83 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,439 And I think what's happening is that Ice is going 84 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:50,680 where leftists perform against Ice like you, the more you say, 85 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,639 like Jacob Fry now says daily on social media, I 86 00:05:54,839 --> 00:06:00,160 demand that Ice leave. The more you do that, the 87 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,800 more you create heat that draws ICE to you, and 88 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,800 that the more resistance they face, the more they send 89 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,800 people there. So I think there are places all over 90 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:13,720 the country, even places where citizenship and deportation is a 91 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,839 genuine issue and people are really thinking about it, where 92 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,480 there is no chaos and misery at all, and people 93 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,879 are just living normal lives. And if you find yourself 94 00:06:22,959 --> 00:06:25,959 and I think we all do this, you know, you 95 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,759 and I both we make our living from media and 96 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,680 politics and looking at all of the show that's going on, 97 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,600 and I descend into something like a state of despair, 98 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,399 like my god, how can we be this crazy? And 99 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,000 I never find that turning off the television, turning off 100 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,360 the computer and getting in the car doesn't fix it. 101 00:06:51,959 --> 00:06:56,600 All over this country, the country you grew up in, 102 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,720 still exists, it's just not television. 103 00:07:02,199 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: I think that is great advice for all of us. 104 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:07,720 But I still want to go back to a time 105 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,360 when I was playing Pitfall on Atari twenty six hundred 106 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:19,759 and watching the NBC Thursday night lineup, which included cheers. 107 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,240 Of course, but it's a different world. My beloved sainted 108 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:27,959 mother used to say before she passed several years ago, 109 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,920 all the people that I used to watch in the 110 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,079 movies and here on the radio are dead. And of 111 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,199 course I'm getting to that point in my life. Now, 112 00:07:38,199 --> 00:07:41,959 that's a natural thing. But this performative thing that you're 113 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,319 talking about from the left that has sowed the seeds 114 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:52,240 of so much chaos is not natural. It is absolutely 115 00:07:52,279 --> 00:07:55,240 what they are going after. I mean, you don't have 116 00:07:55,319 --> 00:07:59,120 to look too far back to see what was happening, 117 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,879 and Trump won, same kind of thing. So do you 118 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:10,959 see the chaos ramping up even to twenty twenty BLM 119 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:15,000 style leftist chaos this year an election year. 120 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:20,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. But I think you have to notice 121 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,759 what's happening with all of it. I think you have 122 00:08:22,839 --> 00:08:29,360 to notice. I'll tell this story. I'll say it this way. 123 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:34,600 Go Google, or go use the search function and X 124 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:43,279 go look for Democrats demanding that senior leaders in the administration, 125 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,080 cabinet officials and the administration resign. Go look for it. 126 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,879 Go look at the number of times that's happened. They 127 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:55,519 started ten minutes after the inauguration. Pete haig Seth has 128 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,480 been ruined, absolutely ruined. He's finished. There's no way he 129 00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:04,799 can remain in office. He's destroyed. He's been destroyed a 130 00:09:04,799 --> 00:09:06,840 dozen times now, and he's still there and he's still 131 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,279 extremely effective. He's still doing his job and doing it well. 132 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,000 Robert F. Kennedy Junior has been destroyed over and over 133 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,519 and over again. He's been absolutely ruined. He's had no 134 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,080 choice but to resign and give up over and over 135 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,679 and over again. And I actually I googled up a 136 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:29,399 specific example this morning. I must opened this and look 137 00:09:29,399 --> 00:09:34,039 at it because I think it's so telling. December Representative 138 00:09:34,159 --> 00:09:38,840 Delia Ramirez one of the less important members of Congress 139 00:09:38,919 --> 00:09:41,200 in a body of people who are not important, one 140 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,600 of the least important but not important people. In December, 141 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:51,399 Delia Ramirez posted on x she said, Christy Nome, you 142 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,919 have three choices. You can quit today, or Donald Trump 143 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,799 can fire you today, or I'm I'm going to have 144 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,279 you impeached and removed. 145 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,399 Speaker 1: Wow, that's a lot of threatening language there. 146 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: You're done. And then Christinom completely ignored her and just 147 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,200 went on doing her job. And she's still there and 148 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,080 and you're done, You're finished. You have no choice. Actually 149 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,399 she did have a choice, and she just went on 150 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,039 doing her job. I think that's where we are. I 151 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:31,679 think we're at this point at which the performative reaction 152 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,000 is going to get more and more insane, and clearly 153 00:10:35,159 --> 00:10:39,960 is getting more and more insane. And they are now saying, 154 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,919 basically daily like you're finished. We demanded, we order you 155 00:10:44,039 --> 00:10:47,960 to stop. And he says, don't you just ignore them 156 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:48,320 and go on? 157 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: And thank god that they do. I mean, because I mean, 158 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,159 take take a look at this guy. We're I think 159 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,960 before you and I started our conversation, we were getting 160 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:06,159 some word that the ICE officer who was truly struck 161 00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:11,159 by a weaponized vehicle. It becomes a weapon when you 162 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:18,639 accelerate and drive into an individual. That Ice Watch activist 163 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,679 and alleged domestic terrorist Renee Good was driving that vehicle. 164 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,879 We've learned that this gentleman, at least according to some 165 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:33,000 sources being reported today and some of your finest corporate 166 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,320 media outlets, that he suffered internal injuries front that so 167 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,320 he must have something must have happened in that situation. 168 00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:47,919 But of course you could set your watch by the 169 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,159 performance that came out of that. You wrote a great 170 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,679 piece that's up now on your substack. It's called The 171 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,720 Fall of soy Gon. I want you to explain that 172 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,960 headline here in just a bit. But the se deck, 173 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,120 as we used to say in newspapers, to speak through 174 00:12:04,159 --> 00:12:07,840 the masks. The point of the performance you write is 175 00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:12,519 the performance like art that exists only to comment on 176 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,039 the meaning of art. You tie this all into what 177 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,360 we've been talking about. Dan. 178 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:17,039 Speaker 2: You say this. 179 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: In very direct terms. The Minneapolis Circle Jerk is producing 180 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,720 endless video of middle aged white leftist women doing the 181 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:33,279 same performance, endlessly, like there are a thousand pieces of 182 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,120 footage that all show the same moment with different faces, 183 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,799 and then you point to one where your reader can 184 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,639 click on come back when you're done, and then you 185 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,200 go on to talk about the performance. But I think 186 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:49,639 that really sums it up. The first and foremost where 187 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,559 did you get the Fall of Soygan. 188 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: I stole it shamelessly, and I credit the person I 189 00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:00,759 stole it from on the post, the leftist journalist Aaron 190 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:06,039 Rupar lives in Minneapolis, and he posted very dramatically on 191 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,720 x that his wife and children were evacuating as the 192 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:14,639 city falls to ice. Oh god and uh and some 193 00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:18,320 totally random dude who's uh whose user name is Paul 194 00:13:19,159 --> 00:13:24,720 said it's the Fall of Soygon, and I just it 195 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:27,159 resonated with me. So I thought it was the most 196 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,240 brilliant thing, and so I stole it as a headline. 197 00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:35,799 This performative idea that that you know, everything's falling apart 198 00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:37,600 and everything is going bad and we have to flee, 199 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,519 and it's it's crisis and chaos. Uh. And it's crisis 200 00:13:42,519 --> 00:13:45,960 and chaos that that people on the left are creating 201 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,919 and then pretending to be afraid of. So I I Uh. 202 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,679 The Fall of Soygan refers to the idea that that 203 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,559 there is that we've arrived at a moment of collapse, 204 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,480 but the collapse is totally contrived. 205 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,279 Speaker 3: Regime change sounds great, but what's the real story in Venezuela. 206 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,120 The watch Doout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. 207 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:14,039 Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 208 00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:17,159 the economy and how it affects your wallet. Maduro's captured, 209 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,919 but his entire apparatus is still there. Are they truly liberated? 210 00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:23,440 Will the US have to cut a deal with whoever's 211 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,440 left even after this operation. Whether it's happening in DC 212 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,639 or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 213 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: Be informed. 214 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,159 Speaker 3: Check out the watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 215 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,919 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 216 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,759 Speaker 1: And hence, you know, to do a little bit of 217 00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:47,840 the Alfred y Noman here in truth? What me worry? 218 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,919 I mean, why should we worry about this? With this caveat? 219 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:58,519 I would say I have some dear friends in Minneapolis. 220 00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:02,399 They're pretty liberal folk, just like many of the denizens, 221 00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:07,200 maybe most of the denizens of Minneapolis in twenty twenty. 222 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,399 They did flee their city because they lived in an 223 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,440 area of the city that was literally on fire, and 224 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,600 there were people getting hurt and killed there on a 225 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:22,159 regular basis. Not to say that Minneapolis does not have, 226 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:26,159 thanks to its leftist leadership, you know, a constant train 227 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:31,360 of murders and violent crimes. But this was a special time, 228 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,960 a special season of course in the Black Lives Matter 229 00:15:34,039 --> 00:15:37,720 movement for violent crimes, and so they fled, they got 230 00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:41,320 out of there. They could not everybody could. But here 231 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,240 we are, fast forward almost six years later, and these 232 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:53,919 two Minneapolis residents I see are putting on Facebook, you know, Ice, 233 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,360 get out, how horrible this is. You know, you're destroying 234 00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:01,639 the city. And I guess that's the point. The performance 235 00:16:02,559 --> 00:16:09,200 is being watched closely by people who vehemently vote And 236 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,000 so what does that mean for twenty twenty six And 237 00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:19,120 the majority of these Republicans, many of them very unimportant 238 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,519 Oh yes, you noted, many of them unimportant members of Congress. 239 00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what we're going to see, and I 240 00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:31,879 think we're already seeing it, certainly in California. I don't 241 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:35,679 know if I've ever talked about Scott Wilke, who was 242 00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:40,279 a member of the California State Senate who during a 243 00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:43,840 legislative hearing a few years ago, they were hearing a 244 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:49,519 bill about one of the infinite number of bills about 245 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,799 transgender children that consume the California legislature because nothing is 246 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,480 more important than transgender children, and Scott Wilke said, as 247 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:04,839 a serving member of the state legislature that my message 248 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:11,480 to California families is get out. We've lost There's nothing 249 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:14,000 that we apparently can do about it, and he said, 250 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,720 as soon as I finish my term in the State Senate, 251 00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:22,680 I'm going to move to America. Uh. And I think, 252 00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:26,880 I think what's coming. I think when you live in 253 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,359 Minneapolis and you go through cycles of riot season, like 254 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,880 the snow coming, it's it's riots are here again. I 255 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,400 think that the sort, the sorting of America into red 256 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,559 and blue, is going to accelerate and intensitify. I think 257 00:17:43,559 --> 00:17:47,119 we can't live with each other anymore. And I think 258 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:53,440 that that sort is going to produce considerable decline and 259 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,880 decay in some of the places where productive people are fleeing. 260 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,759 I think we have a class of people who generate 261 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,519 all of their self worth, all of their sense of 262 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:07,559 themselves and what their lives mean, from this performance of 263 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:11,599 doing things like standing in a circle around ice agents 264 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,480 and screaming insults and abuse at them. We have a 265 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:20,519 performance class that's drawn to places where other people who 266 00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:22,680 are from the performance class go to live. And I 267 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:30,000 think that Kurt Schlichter uses the term militant normals. I 268 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:33,079 think normals can't live around that and are going to 269 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:35,920 become increasingly militant about not living around it. So I 270 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,880 think the story of Minneapolis is going to be a 271 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,000 story of decline. We'll see if that's true. Our guest 272 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,480 today our guest, and leave will leave. 273 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,079 Speaker 1: Indeed, our guest today is Chris Ray, Journalist, historian, former soldier, 274 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:55,160 whiskey enthusiast, and the guy behind that. Tell me how 275 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,799 this ends, substack. It's a great read. As I said, 276 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:07,920 it's got an equal shot of funny and sobering writing 277 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,920 as well as you constantly, Chris, take a look at 278 00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:17,319 where we stand in this country and in this culture. 279 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:23,160 So with all of that said, and the performance goes on, 280 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:31,160 and the performance will only intensify. You mentioned California and 281 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,759 your lawmaker there who put his hands up in the 282 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:38,039 air and said that's it, turn the lights out, gets 283 00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:44,039 over for conservatives. Well, then, interesting, something funny happens that 284 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:53,400 conservatives Republicans are winning more seats, They're having more of 285 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,799 an impact. There is some success to be noted from 286 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:03,759 conservatives in California, and that really has come out over 287 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:06,839 the last several years from the decline that you're talking 288 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,519 about in San Francisco and Los Angeles and a lot 289 00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:16,279 of other cities, blue cities in blue California. Is that 290 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:20,200 indicative of where we're heading, and I say that in 291 00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:23,880 context of the wave that came in twenty twenty four, 292 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:30,039 is that sustainable even in a traditionally difficult time for 293 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,880 the majority party, the party in control in US politics. 294 00:20:36,039 --> 00:20:38,839 Speaker 2: California is going to become a very interesting test case. 295 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:45,119 I was hoping that Prop fifty, which allowed the legislature 296 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:52,119 to override our Redistricting Commission and create new districts that 297 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,680 are very, very favorable to the Democratic Party, and that 298 00:20:54,720 --> 00:21:01,720 will probably create even fewer allow even fewer Republicans to 299 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,400 be elected to the House of Representatives from California. I 300 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,519 was hoping that California would wake up a little bit 301 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:12,240 and notice that Prop fifty was destruction and decline. But 302 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:18,440 it passed very, very comfortably. My father was a My 303 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,640 father's no longer with us, but he was a Republican 304 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,640 Party activist in the Bay Area for a long time. 305 00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:28,920 He walked precincts with Republican candidates in places like Berkeley 306 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:35,680 and Oakland. So he had a shell like a turtle. 307 00:21:35,799 --> 00:21:40,480 You couldn't he had the thickest possible skin. But even 308 00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:46,039 he eventually gave up and fled. We talk about in California, 309 00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:49,640 we talk about you know, imagine how much better would 310 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,599 this state would be if we had a Republican party. 311 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,200 We essentially don't have one, and we have a bunch 312 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,880 of candidates. We have a bunch of candidates in the 313 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:07,119 state legislature who are just dreadful, dreadful. It's hard to 314 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,319 watch them speak because they're so stupid and they can 315 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:17,039 barely form sentences, and they pass shockingly stupid and evil legislation. 316 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:23,039 And they represent fairly purple districts where they win by 317 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:26,279 three or four points. And I've, like many people, have 318 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,680 begged the California GOP to go hard on some of 319 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,680 those districts and shout for the best possible candidates they 320 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,960 can find, and pour some money into those districts, and 321 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,680 it never happens. I don't think California is near term redeemable. 322 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,839 But what happens in California is that while the legislature 323 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,880 and all of the lower offices just keep filling up 324 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:56,400 with Democrats over and over again, occasionally occasionally we managed 325 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,400 to flip the governor's office. And I used to make 326 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,640 fun of Arnold Schwartz and say, God, what a terrible 327 00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:07,839 governory is and not really producing any results. But many 328 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,599 years of Gavin Newsom have convinced me that I may 329 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,480 not have noticed how much Arnold Schwartzenegger was holding back 330 00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:18,119 the flood. I think we have a chance at flipping 331 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:24,039 the governor's office this year. I think the legislature will 332 00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:27,119 remain a disaster. The state legislature will remain a disaster. 333 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:31,200 And I warn America that we are going to send 334 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:36,279 the biggest idiots in the country to Congress. We have 335 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,640 already sent you two of the dumbest senators in the 336 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,599 history of the country, and we're just going to pile on. 337 00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:49,960 I very much wonder if our very worst state legislature, 338 00:23:50,319 --> 00:23:54,359 state Legislator Scott Wiener, is going to win a seat 339 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,480 in the House of Representatives. I don't think there's a 340 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,359 political redemption coming for California soon. 341 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:04,559 Speaker 1: Really, that's you know, we hear from the California Republicans, 342 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:08,319 the young Republicans. Hey, people are paying attention. You know, 343 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:13,440 they're living this disaster, and they may not be conservatives, 344 00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:16,519 but they're no longer in line. A growing number of 345 00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:20,359 Californians are getting out of the far left line. And 346 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,240 here is the problem. Even if that is true, and 347 00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:27,440 it sounds like, you know, even When you have that, 348 00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:32,480 you have representatives who certainly don't represent the interest of 349 00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:36,039 those those folks who are soon to be, many of 350 00:24:36,079 --> 00:24:41,200 them refugees. But here's the problem, Chris. When they leave 351 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:48,599 their Marxist enclaves in San Francisco and Oakland, in Los 352 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:55,559 Angeles wherever, they go to red states and they say 353 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,160 they leave because they're tired of the high taxes, they're 354 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,839 tired of the crime. And then they come in and 355 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,240 either they run for office or they elect people who 356 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,039 bring the same misery with them. How do we stop 357 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,640 that awfulness? 358 00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 2: I mean, I think, certainly from the example of my 359 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:24,759 parents who fled California for Arizona. A lot of the 360 00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:33,440 people who flee California are not Blue voters. Although made 361 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,640 the heavens grand mercy on us, some of them are. 362 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,960 And I apologize to America for the cancer we're spreading 363 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:47,880 across the country. California is the largest holds the largest 364 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,720 group of Republican voters in the country. Donald Trump got 365 00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:55,079 four million votes out of California each time he ran. 366 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,279 If I remember the numbers correctly, there are a lot 367 00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:02,039 of Republicans here, but the state has something like thirty 368 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:06,920 eight million people now, so they just get overwhelmed. If 369 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,480 you drive along the eastern edge of California, you're driving 370 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:18,319 along ranching country and through rural communities that are very, 371 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,079 very conservative, where the vote is seventy or eighty percent Republican. 372 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:28,400 But for example, if you go to Modoc County up 373 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,599 in the northeastern corner of the state, which is a 374 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:37,799 giant cattle ranching area, they're very very conservative voters and 375 00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:42,319 they have nine thousand people in the entire county. There 376 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:48,200 are blocks in San Francisco that outvote Modoc County. So 377 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,039 there's just a wait, this is happening in Washington, it's 378 00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:56,319 happening in Oregon, it's happening in California. That enormous conservative 379 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:03,319 communities are governed by Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles, 380 00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:08,119 and so a lot of the people who are fleeing 381 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,880 are very conservative people. But they're not. They're not all 382 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,319 And I am so sorry. I don't know how to 383 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:20,359 solve that problem. But you know, how this ends. I 384 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,359 wish I knew how this ends. I think it ends nationally. 385 00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:29,480 I think California is facing a lot more declined before 386 00:27:29,559 --> 00:27:32,720 any kind of reality comes back, because so many people 387 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,160 have fled because so many Red voters have just given 388 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,119 up and left the state, and it produces greater and 389 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:44,799 greater in balance. But I think it ends nationally. I have. 390 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,599 It's been a few years since I did this, but 391 00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:49,440 I wrote a series of posts about the psychology of 392 00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:57,279 Jonestown mm hmm sure, which started as the People's Temple, 393 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:02,799 and with a very large group of people listening to 394 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,079 Jim Jones, and then some people leaving, and some people leaving, 395 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:11,079 and some people leaving, and People's Temple moved a bunch 396 00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:15,440 of times, and each time they moved, they shed a 397 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,440 few people, and as the cult got smaller and smaller, 398 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,720 the remaining people became more and more fervent, to the 399 00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:26,799 point that at the end there were only a few 400 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,119 hundred people left, many of whom didn't question the final order. 401 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:35,319 I think what happens in places like California is that 402 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,839 as sensible people flee, as Scott Wilke moves to America, 403 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:43,000 the people who remain by it more and more and 404 00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:49,039 more and say, like, I absolutely fascinated to see the 405 00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:55,119 Donald Trump is literally Adolf Hitler thing still going. Jason Stanley, 406 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,720 the philosophy professor who fled Yale and move to Canada 407 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:05,920 to escape the American Hitler has a new interview with 408 00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:10,279 Mother Jones this week, you know, banging on, still going, 409 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,839 still saying no, no, no, no, no. Look, the evidence is 410 00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:16,880 fascism is rising in American it's rising in Argentina, and 411 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,359 it's rising in Russian, and it's rising in Germany. And 412 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:26,720 everybody's a fascist. And it's just so shockingly stupid that 413 00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:29,680 I can't imagine he's still convincing himself of it, but 414 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:31,960 he is. So. I think a smaller and smaller group 415 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:38,279 of people become more and more insane and performative, and 416 00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:41,880 outside the blue zones, outside the places like Minneapolis and 417 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,160 Los Angeles, where the colt is becoming more and more 418 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:52,400 concentrated and incapable of thinking. I think that I think 419 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,400 that people will learn what the Trump administration has learned, 420 00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:01,640 which is, you know, as members of Congress say Christy 421 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,160 nom is done, I demand that you resign, they just 422 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,559 ignore them. Yeah. I think we're getting to the point 423 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:11,240 where we're going to have a very, very loud and 424 00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:18,119 insane American political left, and a growing portion of the 425 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,519 country will just ignore them. I've thought this week a 426 00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:25,319 lot about the clusters in Minneapolis that you see whenever 427 00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:29,559 ICE makes arrest and twenty or thirty or one hundred 428 00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:35,920 people surround them and scream abuse at them and blow 429 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,960 whistles and try to create chaos and misery and try 430 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,920 to produce a response in the ICE. The border patrol 431 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,079 officers and the ICE agents just ignore them and go 432 00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:49,759 on with their work. I think that's America in the 433 00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:52,400 next few years. I think that is a metaphor for 434 00:30:53,079 --> 00:31:00,759 the entire country. A ring of crazy people screaming and 435 00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:05,640 making incoherent noise around a country that more and more 436 00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:07,599 just ignores them and gets on with its work. And 437 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,079 I think there's a bunch of a bunch of good news. 438 00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:17,839 I think we're seeing some significant economic growth. Venezuela is 439 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,559 reduc to as releasing political prisoners. The regime and Iran 440 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,519 appears to be collapsing. Let's hope that happens. Yes, we 441 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,759 see some good things happening against what seems to be 442 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,960 maybe this is true. We'll see what seems to be 443 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:43,240 increasingly impotent opposition that can only make crazy noises while 444 00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:45,160 the country just ignores them. 445 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,759 Speaker 1: Well, I have to tell you that after about a 446 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:52,160 half hour of our conversation, I started out feeling pretty 447 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:59,599 grim about things. I felt like your senator who wanted 448 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,640 to flee California for America. I get it, you know, 449 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,440 I'm talking to you right now in a deep red state, 450 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,519 and I'm feeling okay about things. But I look around 451 00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:16,160 the world and I say, my god, what's happening. But basically, 452 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,960 what this boils down to you hear the left has 453 00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:22,400 said this over and over again, there are two Americas. 454 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,039 And of course what they mean is the you know, 455 00:32:24,079 --> 00:32:28,000 they're there are the privileged and the entitled, and all 456 00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:29,920 of these sorts of things, of course, never looking at 457 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,759 their privilege and their entitlements, certainly, But I don't think 458 00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:41,920 it's the two America's blue and red anymore, although that's 459 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,920 that's certainly part of it. I think the two Americas 460 00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:50,319 are reason and insanity. And what you're telling us is 461 00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:54,440 that you believe reason will ultimately prevail. 462 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,799 Speaker 2: So Helen Andrews wrote this piece that got a lot 463 00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:07,160 of attention about the feminization of American institutions. And when 464 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,240 I say this, I have to immediately follow up and say, 465 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:16,440 in California, all of the most sensible and reasonable activists 466 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,160 who've been fighting against the crazy institutions have been women. 467 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,279 When we talk about feminization, we're not saying men versus women, 468 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:30,559 all women versus all men, but we're talking about feminine 469 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,359 approaches to problems versus masculine approaches to problems. How do 470 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,160 I feel about this? Everyone should cooperate and we should 471 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,599 all be friends, and everyone should be on board. We 472 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,359 should have we should have shared identity and shared values. 473 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,559 The feminine values of let's all get along, let's all cooperate, 474 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,720 the feminine value of policing status. Instead of making an 475 00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:02,440 argument versus masculine value is of I have to refer 476 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,640 to the video it's not about the nail. Has everyone 477 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,079 seen it's not about the nail. I think that's important 478 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:12,400 that you see a guy on a couch saying, well, honey, 479 00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:15,079 I think you're having a headache because of the nail, 480 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:19,679 and the woman says, it's not about the nail. Why 481 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:23,239 can't you just validate my feelings instead of doing all 482 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,400 of this rational stuff about trying to find solutions. And 483 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,039 at the end of the video you realize he has 484 00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:32,199 a nail sticking in her forehead. I think, and I 485 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,440 don't mean all men and all women I think that 486 00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:41,920 the conflict between rational problem solving behavior and I will 487 00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:49,440 use the word hysterical, hysterical performative conflict. I don't mean 488 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,840 all men and all women. Is that conflict in America. 489 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,039 And it's very very telling, very very telling. Then when 490 00:34:57,079 --> 00:35:01,599 you watch the video for Minneapolis and you see crowds 491 00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:05,760 of people surrounding ice officers, they tend to be middle 492 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,719 aged white women. Enormous crowds of middle aged white women 493 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:14,559 as who disproportionately are on SSR eyes all over the country. 494 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,320 They are, by far by percentage, the largest population consuming Ssriyes, 495 00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:27,599 I think we are in a culture war about where 496 00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:33,199 you begin a discussion, how you begin talking about here 497 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,400 is a problem, what do we do about it? And 498 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,920 there's an approach that says, let's figure out the causes 499 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,559 and let's apply the Trump administration approach. Let's figure out 500 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,000 what the problem is and apply solutions to it and 501 00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:54,519 see what walks versus A deeply performative set of symbol 502 00:35:54,599 --> 00:36:01,920 invocations about hate has no home here. I just exist 503 00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:05,400 blows my mind. By the way, one of the ice 504 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,639 one of the SUVs the ice officers were driving around 505 00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:13,519 in Minneapolis. They quite brilliantly put a coexist sticker on 506 00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:22,320 the back. That's good. I think we're having a a 507 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,039 culture war over starting points. How do you begin to 508 00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,920 talk about what's happening? And I think the one that 509 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,880 focuses on logic and fact and solving problems is the 510 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,679 one that prevails, though it probably has to prevail against 511 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,280 a great deal of noise. 512 00:36:42,559 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: A great deal of noise. Indeed, and I'm wondering, is 513 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:55,079 the rallying cry from that middle aged white woman protester 514 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,360 is their new motto, drive Baby Drive. If it is, 515 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,760 what does that mean for the future of this country? 516 00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:08,599 Speaker 2: It does seem to me. And the next thing she 517 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,719 said after the shooting, we have video now of her 518 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,320 reaction and the things she shouted at the ice agent 519 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,400 who shot her wife, her supposed wife. They apparently didn't 520 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,320 even get married. Yeah, think about her saying this, because 521 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,000 I think this is what's happening in America. She said 522 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,800 to them, why are you using real bullets? Mm hmm. 523 00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. 524 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 2: There was an essay at the Substack Bad Catitude recently 525 00:37:46,039 --> 00:37:49,239 about the problem of word people, and I am a 526 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,239 word person. I've spent my career in media and academia 527 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,039 except for some years in the army, but I've spent 528 00:37:56,159 --> 00:38:03,599 my adult life working with words and living inside of 529 00:38:03,639 --> 00:38:06,199 this being one of these people, I see the point. 530 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,960 There are people who spend their lives doing things, making things, 531 00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:16,639 fixing things, putting their hands on things, who start with 532 00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:20,719 a perception of reality that has to do with physics 533 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,719 and what is. And there are people who spend their 534 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:31,159 lives dealing in symbols. Robert Reisch called them symbol analysts. 535 00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:35,599 I think yes, and I believe that was the term. 536 00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:39,360 The future is in symbol analysts. The culture in the 537 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,119 economy will be increasingly focused on symbol analysts, people who 538 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:48,079 work with representations of things, not with things themselves. 539 00:38:48,159 --> 00:38:50,079 Speaker 1: Do you mean like Renee Goods poetry? 540 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 2: Like Renee Goods just extraordinary poetry And if you haven't 541 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,239 haven't read any you should google Sema. But I think 542 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,400 we have a set of people who believe that life 543 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,639 is symbols, and that symbols should prevail, and that saying 544 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:13,400 good symbols against bad symbols should work. And they find 545 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,280 themselves saying things like why are you using real bullets? 546 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,559 They find themselves slamming into physical reality in ways that 547 00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:29,119 are increasingly untenable. And I think I think that divergence, 548 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,079 that cycle of conflict, that conflict between word people and 549 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,480 thing people making things people, is going to get more 550 00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:41,039 and more clear and more and more dire. And I 551 00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:44,119 think that the word people can't prevail because they sort 552 00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:48,280 of walk through life thinking that the words they say, 553 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,400 the lawn sign they put up in their yard that 554 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:55,159 hate has no home here, Immigrants and refugees welcome sign 555 00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:59,400 has a kind of magic effect and will shape reality. 556 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:04,639 Like a member of Congress telling Christy Noome you you're done. 557 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,599 You have you have to choose between resigning immediately or 558 00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:11,920 having me remove you. And then it doesn't happen. What 559 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,880 do they do next? They don't do anything next because 560 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,400 they they think that because they only know the magic incantation, 561 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:25,000 I said it, so it should happen. And I think 562 00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:28,440 they're they're magical incantations are failing them. I think they're 563 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,800 working less and less. Well, it's it's you have to 564 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,880 notice this week, of all weeks, whenever you watch it, 565 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,239 and there are there must be hundreds of videos now 566 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,920 if not thousands of videos out of Minneapolis of ice 567 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,960 making arrests, and they're inevitably surrounded by groups that shout 568 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,559 at them, what are you doing? Get your hands off him? 569 00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:53,840 Let him go? Yeah, right, let him go, Let him go, 570 00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:56,880 let him go, over and over and over and over again, 571 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,719 like a magical incantation. And it's at one point you 572 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,840 have to notice that never in the history of crowd 573 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,199 shouting let him go, have they ever let him go. 574 00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:19,239 So the performance that the incantations, the the invocation of 575 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:25,559 words against the physical reality of what Ice is doing, 576 00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:31,880 against the physical reality of the real world, just doesn't work. 577 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,000 It doesn't ever work, and they just keep doing it. 578 00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:38,000 And so what does that imply about where it ends? 579 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess we'll will conclude there concretely in 580 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,239 the real world, what does that imply? Because on the 581 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,679 other side of that as well, while you have Renee 582 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:58,039 Goods wife or kind of wife, wife and name only, 583 00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:02,679 I don't know, saying I can't believe you're using real bullets, 584 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,400 you do have members of the left we're growing increasingly 585 00:42:08,519 --> 00:42:15,079 violent and using real bullets on political leaders that they 586 00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:18,039 are now literally at war with. So I guess that's 587 00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:21,159 the final question. And I think you've answered it over 588 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,039 and over again. I think you answer it oftentimes in 589 00:42:25,639 --> 00:42:30,360 your columns, and that is you know, we are seeing 590 00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:36,880 a collision point here. But your ultimate takeaway and how 591 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:45,239 this ends, is that eventually reason, rationality, the real world 592 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,480 will prevail, because it always does, and it always has to. 593 00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 2: Correct. Physical reality votes last. Things that exist in the 594 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,599 real world vote last. And you can chant and do 595 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,840 magical invocations as much as you want. Reality reality shows 596 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,280 up in reality wins. Reality is showing up in California, 597 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,400 where we talk all the time about how utterly superior 598 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,400 we are and how much better the California way is. 599 00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:20,440 But you can look at the state and see the decline. 600 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,719 You can see the physical infrastructure falling apart. 601 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: The real world just shows up. Follow the science, right, 602 00:43:33,079 --> 00:43:38,119 follow the science. Thanks to my guest today, Chris Bray, journalist, historian, 603 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:43,159 former soldier, whiskey enthusiast and the guy behind that. Tell 604 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:44,199 me how this end? 605 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 2: Substack? 606 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,159 Speaker 1: Where can where can our fine listeners find this fine. 607 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 2: Publication Chrisbray dot substack dot com, or you can just 608 00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:56,360 google up Chris Bray tell me how this ends. 609 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,679 Speaker 1: Excellent, and of course you caned his good work. Chris 610 00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:04,599 prays good work from time to time at the Federalist 611 00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:08,159 you've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 612 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,440 I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll 613 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,559 be back soon with more. Until then, stay, lovers of 614 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:26,480 freedom and anxious for the fray, heard the fame, voice 615 00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:36,079 the reason, and then it faded away.