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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to an airwave media podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. In

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<v Speaker 2>a typical Monster Talk episode, we highlight a monster to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about his plausibility and find scientists and researchers who

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<v Speaker 2>could help us better understand the details, facts and nuances

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<v Speaker 2>of such creatures. We also occasionally talk to people who

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<v Speaker 2>believe that such monsters are real and try to get

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<v Speaker 2>their point of view. But this episode's a bit different

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<v Speaker 2>from anything we've done before. Tonight, we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to a self described witch who has written a book

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<v Speaker 2>on how to use magic to defend against a variety

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<v Speaker 2>of monsters and monstrous forces. I think it's a fairly

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<v Speaker 2>interesting conversation, and I hope you agree. It's actually quite

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<v Speaker 2>unlike anything we've ever seen before.

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<v Speaker 3>A giant very creature Part eight, part mat in Luckness,

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<v Speaker 3>a twenty four mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands

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<v Speaker 3>of Scotland.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a creature known as the luck Nest.

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<v Speaker 4>I was good Monster Talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello. I'm Blake Smith, the host of Monster Talk. In

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<v Speaker 2>this episode, we'll be talking with author, lawyer and self

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<v Speaker 2>described which Emily Carlin. Ben Radford will be joining me

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<v Speaker 2>for this interview. A few listeners may have noted that

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<v Speaker 2>I promised our episode on the Kraken would be this week.

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<v Speaker 2>That episode ran into some fairly serious technical problems and

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<v Speaker 2>had to be postponed. But I have no fear we

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<v Speaker 2>will engage the Kraken. We have some really interesting things

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<v Speaker 2>led for twenty twelve, including more sea monsters, more zombies,

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<v Speaker 2>shape changers, and even Satan. The upcoming interview is with

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<v Speaker 2>a person who believes in the power of magic and

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<v Speaker 2>teaches the use of it for defense against an astonishing

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<v Speaker 2>array of ghulies and gremlins and ghosts and goblins and grumpkins.

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<v Speaker 2>The book she wrote very interesting and entertaining. I know

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<v Speaker 2>that our listeners know that we are very skeptical of

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<v Speaker 2>magical claims, but I also expect that most of our

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<v Speaker 2>listeners also love monsters and tells the paranormal, even if

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<v Speaker 2>they don't find the underlying framework of plausibility to the tales.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pleased to say that our conversation was fun and interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>and while we come from different approaches, I was happy

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<v Speaker 2>with the dialogue, and I hope you will be too.

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<v Speaker 2>But before we get started, let me remind everyone that

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<v Speaker 2>while we are an official podcast of Skeptic Magazine. The

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<v Speaker 2>views and ideas expressed herein are not necessarily the views

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<v Speaker 2>of Skeptic Magazine or the Skeptic Society.

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<v Speaker 1>Monstertal.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I've mentioned it on Monster Talk before that

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<v Speaker 2>before I became a self identifying skeptic. How about that

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<v Speaker 2>someone with a someone who says they're a skeptic with

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<v Speaker 2>a capital less. For years and years I read about

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<v Speaker 2>the paranormal and didn't really experience anything until I finally

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<v Speaker 2>did experience something that seemed like a classic haunting. And

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<v Speaker 2>when that happened, it went on for quite a while,

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<v Speaker 2>probably a year, year and a half, and I really

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>what to do to stop it. My exciting defense mechanisms

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<v Speaker 2>included sleeping with the light on, getting a dog, and

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<v Speaker 2>letting him be my protector, which was more than just

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<v Speaker 2>having a friend. I mean, I really thought about it

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<v Speaker 2>in the sense of dogs are supposed to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to see the spirits, and so he would, he would

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<v Speaker 2>bark at unseen things, and you know, to me, that

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<v Speaker 2>was just confirmation that interesting, that he was helping guard

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<v Speaker 2>off the unknown.

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<v Speaker 5>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I've i've always had cats, and cats, as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>will stare at anything or nothing that they see in

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<v Speaker 1>the room. So they they will give you lots and

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<v Speaker 1>lots of red herrings and false leaves on ghosts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sure. Yeah, but they're the best friend of

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<v Speaker 2>a witch anyway. So actually what happened was, at one

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<v Speaker 2>point I had a roommate and he was experiencing the

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<v Speaker 2>haunting with me. I mean it was, you know, real

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<v Speaker 2>things were happening, like I say. You know, we talked

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<v Speaker 2>about the exploding light bulbs and bumps and noises and

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<v Speaker 2>doors opening and closing by themselves, all the classic things, right,

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<v Speaker 2>everything but a full ball and apparition, right. And at

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<v Speaker 2>one point he got so upset that he decided he

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<v Speaker 2>would do something about it, and he went and did

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<v Speaker 2>a smudging ceremony. So he went and he got a

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<v Speaker 2>smudge stick, and he walked around the property inside and outside,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, smoking a smudge stick and do some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of cleansing ritual. Now, it didn't actually stop my problem,

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<v Speaker 2>but it made him feel much better. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for him, he felt much more comfortable after the smudging.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt much more comfortable after I learned about sleep

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<v Speaker 2>paralysis and how that works, and then it explained a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of my problems. But no, the smudging ceremony, I

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<v Speaker 2>thought it was very interesting. It wasn't really part of

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<v Speaker 2>my upbringing. It wasn't something I was really familiar with.

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<v Speaker 2>But his wife was involved in WICCA, and she suggested

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<v Speaker 2>it as a possible cure for the problem. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>pertinent to our guest tonight, who's going to be talking

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<v Speaker 2>about her book on Defense against the Dark.

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<v Speaker 1>So yes, yeah, a field Guide to protecting yourself from

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<v Speaker 1>predatory spirits, energy, vampires, and malevolent magic with magic spelled

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<v Speaker 1>the c. K. Quasi authentic way, the Aleister Crowley way,

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<v Speaker 1>not just not just Crowley, but certainly he was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the bones of that. Yeah, you know, I have

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of, to be honest with you, I kind

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<v Speaker 1>of have mixed feelings about about the sort of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I looked over the book of course and everything, and

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<v Speaker 1>and from what I could tell, it's, you know again,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's a field guide protecting yourself from these spirits.

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<v Speaker 1>And my some of my reservations about this come from

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<v Speaker 1>having dealt with people who who really sincerely believe that

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<v Speaker 1>they have ghosts in the house as you and our listeners. Know,

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<v Speaker 1>I do a fair number of ghost investigations, and on

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<v Speaker 1>more than one occasion, I've had people who have really

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<v Speaker 1>been just you know, just really really terrified because of

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<v Speaker 1>information they've gotten from TV shows, from books, from magazines,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever else, from people who say, look, you know, ghosts exist,

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<v Speaker 1>or these things exist, and these are the different types.

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<v Speaker 1>They'll talk about, you know, residual hauntings, they'll talk about

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<v Speaker 1>this or that, and of course, you know, my my

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<v Speaker 1>issue is that, you know, let's first let's establish the

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<v Speaker 1>ghosts exists before we start going to the subcategories of ghosts.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, let's let's let's let's let's deal with the

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<v Speaker 1>the the the assumptions and PREMI dies before sort of

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<v Speaker 1>get you know, going too far down the track of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how to how do you know, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>confronted with a cultural geist, what's the best way to

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<v Speaker 1>address that? Whereas if you're confronted with a residual spirit,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what's the best we address that? And so

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<v Speaker 1>so I guess one of my concerns about this is

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<v Speaker 1>that again, the people are going to sort of take

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<v Speaker 1>this stuff seriously and say, oh my god, you know

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<v Speaker 1>this is this is just like what I saw on TV.

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<v Speaker 1>They're sort of haunting themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really hard when you're dealing with something that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>have a physical manifestation, it isn't easily diagnosed through science,

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<v Speaker 2>to treat it through science. I mean, that's not the

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<v Speaker 2>way most people would approach it. I think if it

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<v Speaker 2>fits into a common wisdom or a folklore background of

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<v Speaker 2>a haunting, is science even part of the toolbox that

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<v Speaker 2>you deal with it with, right? And I think maybe

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<v Speaker 2>for most people it's not, especially based on what I've

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<v Speaker 2>seen on television. That doesn't really mean, you know, that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean it's true. But you know, I think a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of you use the toolbox you have, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think a lot of Christians would use prayer, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe people with a more pagan background would use

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<v Speaker 2>a cleansing ritual. It just kind of depends on what

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<v Speaker 2>your cultural background is or how you've educated yourself the

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<v Speaker 2>toolbox you've built. So it'll be interesting to talk to her.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really curious to see what she has to say

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<v Speaker 2>about it. Can I quickly say this? I was looking

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<v Speaker 2>at the tool section in the back of the book.

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<v Speaker 2>It had a section totally said I take this as

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<v Speaker 2>said protective herbs, and it says bay leaves, cinnamon, cloves, finnel, garlic, rosemary, sage.

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<v Speaker 2>What I got out of that is Thanksgiving lunch and

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<v Speaker 2>dinner are fantastic protective tools. So that's why you're almost

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<v Speaker 2>never haunted on Thanksgiving Day.

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<v Speaker 1>I hadn't thought about that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And in her appendix, not not her physical appendix, no.

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<v Speaker 1>Not her actual appendix I have, which I haven't touched

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<v Speaker 1>or examined it, but in the Dependence of the book,

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<v Speaker 1>she has an index of symptoms, which is interesting, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's about two or three pages worth of everything from

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<v Speaker 1>an imbalance of nature, ill health, feeling watched, phantom sounds,

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<v Speaker 1>pantom smells, nightmares, tripping on nothing, objects being moved, just amnesia,

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<v Speaker 1>unexplained scratches, bad luck, things like that. What's interesting is

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<v Speaker 1>that apparently, and again I haven't really discussed it with

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<v Speaker 1>her yet, but apparently these are sort of these are

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<v Speaker 1>you know, things that are symptoms that you're being attacked

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<v Speaker 1>by or manifested by these creatures. And of course one

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<v Speaker 1>of the problems is that many of these are so

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<v Speaker 1>vague in general that they could apply to anybody. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>who hasn't you know, lost their balance at one point,

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<v Speaker 1>or lost their keys, or you know, had bad luck

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever else. And so that's one of the one

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<v Speaker 1>of the problems where you know, I can see someone

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<v Speaker 1>who really believes that there's a ghost in their house

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<v Speaker 1>going to this appendix and saying, oh my god, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I've been acting out a character I had

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<v Speaker 1>a bad nightmare the other night, and sort of convincing

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<v Speaker 1>themselves that these rather banal, ordinary, otherwise ordinary experiences are

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<v Speaker 1>symptomatic I'm an attack by a predatory spirit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, true enough, And that's the same sort of thing

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<v Speaker 2>you find on demon defense pages, is that are you

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<v Speaker 2>being bothered by demons? You get this some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>general list of malaise that you might have from what

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<v Speaker 2>an average person might consider part of life, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just regular life events. But they become more sinister when

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<v Speaker 2>you start to think about it in terms of am

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<v Speaker 2>I being oppressed by a demon or possessed by a demon?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>So it'll be interesting to talk to her. I did

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<v Speaker 1>notice one of the quick things that she's apparently not

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<v Speaker 1>making this up. I'm not making a joke out of it.

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<v Speaker 1>She's apparently the Gray school of Wizardries dean of the

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<v Speaker 1>Dark Arts I know.

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<v Speaker 2>And she's also apparently in a law school graduate so.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, so an interesting blend it'll be. It'll it'll

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<v Speaker 1>be fun to talk to her and hopefully we can,

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<v Speaker 1>uh we can get through it without any screaming you're yelling.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh well, I'm hopefully it'll be great. So yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>I had to say this, regardless of where we fall

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<v Speaker 2>from a philosophical perspective, it's an entertaining book. I really

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<v Speaker 2>found it entertaining, so.

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<v Speaker 1>I did as well. In fact, I mean that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things that I would uh uh, I

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<v Speaker 1>would recommend the book, and of course it's I have

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<v Speaker 1>to be careful. I say that I would recommend the

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<v Speaker 1>book as folklore and she I mean, this isn't bashing

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<v Speaker 1>the book. I mean she she refers to folklore over

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<v Speaker 1>and over again. So, you know, for people who are

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<v Speaker 1>interested in, you know, in knowing the folklore behind fairies

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<v Speaker 1>and genies and elves and goblins and pixies. Uh, that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's fascinating. I mean my only caution would be sort of,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that the transition between folklore and claiming that

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<v Speaker 1>this is you know, actual information that's you know, reflects

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<v Speaker 1>the real world.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's true, key, isn't it, Because as skeptics do

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<v Speaker 2>we really believe in demons? So therefore, what is the

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<v Speaker 2>proper defense?

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<v Speaker 1>What is?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. For me, being educated to turn out

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<v Speaker 2>to be the best defense, but maybe that doesn't work

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<v Speaker 2>for everyone. I don't know. Let's let's move on. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a debate for another day.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go, more obstrutle.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so, Emily, we're calling from Monster Talk and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to read your description from the back of your

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<v Speaker 2>book here, right. So, you're Emily Carlin and you've been

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<v Speaker 2>a magical practitioner for more than a decade, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>the Gray School of Wizardries dean of Dark Art, specializing

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<v Speaker 2>in defensive magic and creatures of the night, and you

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<v Speaker 2>teach magical protection to people of all ages and skill levels.

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<v Speaker 2>And also have a BA in philosophy from Wellesley College

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<v Speaker 2>and a Juris doctorate from Seattle University School of Law,

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<v Speaker 2>and are a member of the Washington State Bar.

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<v Speaker 1>That's me super interesting mix. Awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is a surprising mix. Quite a pot pourrie

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<v Speaker 2>of background angles.

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<v Speaker 5>I have a short attendancepan. So I just do everything.

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<v Speaker 2>So how did you get involved in the dark arts

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<v Speaker 2>or in defense against dark arts or dark a defense

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<v Speaker 2>against the dark? I got this, Harry Potter bleed in,

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<v Speaker 2>I apologize, it's all good.

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<v Speaker 5>How did I get into the stuff that I do? Well?

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<v Speaker 5>I have seen stuff that I couldn't explain and experience

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<v Speaker 5>things I couldn't explain since I was a very young child.

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<v Speaker 5>As I grew up, I learned that people had labels

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<v Speaker 5>for those experiences that I had, and so I decided

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<v Speaker 5>I would learn about them so I didn't have to

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<v Speaker 5>be scared anymore. And then I just kind of kept

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<v Speaker 5>going what.

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<v Speaker 1>Sort of what sort of experiences did you have that?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, was it something that you personally experienced You're like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god. You know, you're reading an article or

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<v Speaker 1>you're reading a book and you're like, this person is

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<v Speaker 1>describing something that happened to me.

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<v Speaker 5>I have definitely had that experience. When I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, our house had ghosts, and ghosts would talk

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<v Speaker 5>to me and I could hear them, and when they

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<v Speaker 5>figured that out, they would then swarm around me, which

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<v Speaker 5>was very disconcerting for a ten year old. And then

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<v Speaker 5>I kind of shut it out and got older and

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<v Speaker 5>then started reading books and go, wait a minute, that

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<v Speaker 5>happened to me. Oh oh, that happened to me. Oh crap.

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<v Speaker 2>When you say they swarmed you, did you physically see

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<v Speaker 2>them or you could feel them around you?

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<v Speaker 5>A little bit of both. When I quote unquote see ghosts,

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<v Speaker 5>it's usually a combination of you know, when you are

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<v Speaker 5>driving down the highway and it's really hot and you

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<v Speaker 5>see that the heat vapor. Yeah, it's like a shimmer almost,

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<v Speaker 5>It's like a different density in the air. That's how

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<v Speaker 5>I tend to see that kind of thing with my eyes.

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<v Speaker 5>And I also feel kind of a presence and a

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<v Speaker 5>pressure shift.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The reason I ask is because I I read

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<v Speaker 2>your book and I wasn't sure it had a real

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<v Speaker 2>role playing game source book feel to it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I wasn't sure if you were you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent. Yeah, basically, yeah, let me just stop dancing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>were you serious? So that's yes, Okay, so you're you're

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<v Speaker 2>totally serious about it.

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<v Speaker 5>I am quite serious about this stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool. Well, the Weird Skeptical Show, We're not gonna mock

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<v Speaker 2>you or anything, but skeptics we need believers, I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>or we wouldn't have any kind of discussion here.

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<v Speaker 1>Right there you go, And let me just let me

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<v Speaker 1>just drive in as someone who spent far too much

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<v Speaker 1>of my my teenage years playing D and D and

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<v Speaker 1>memorizing all the monster manual and you know, each of

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<v Speaker 1>the each of the different characteristics of all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I I I thought it was really cool to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of see at least the folklork aspect in the in

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<v Speaker 1>your book.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was cool. Well and just as a quick

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<v Speaker 2>Dan D shout out, you got ghouls in there, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's uh, my favorite monsters.

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<v Speaker 5>So you know, I first played D and D like

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<v Speaker 5>three months ago. I'd never played it.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you serious?

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<v Speaker 5>That's serious?

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<v Speaker 2>You started with audition or did you start with fourth forty?

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well there you go. Well well hopefully not. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well let me let me let me just just throw

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<v Speaker 1>this in here. I mean, I'm old school. So like,

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<v Speaker 1>if if you're my opinion is that if you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to get into D and D, get into like first

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<v Speaker 1>edition advanced D and D, that's like that's the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, I mean, because I you know that

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<v Speaker 1>the kids they had like a sixth edition, Like no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>this is you got to go back to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the d twenties and the you know, the when I

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<v Speaker 1>was your age, we used to never mind.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you come to write a book about defending

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<v Speaker 2>against the dark?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, circumstances conspired to make it happen. Basically, two things

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<v Speaker 5>kind of came together. One, you know, I had all

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<v Speaker 5>these experiences when I was younger, and then when I

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<v Speaker 5>got to colle and things exploded, and there were no

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<v Speaker 5>books out there that gave me the information I wished

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<v Speaker 5>I had had, which is, you know, the I'm in

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<v Speaker 5>a panic, what do I do right now so that

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<v Speaker 5>I don't have to panic? There were lots of things

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<v Speaker 5>with wonderful stories that were great stories, but not particularly useful,

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<v Speaker 5>and so I had always wished something like that existed.

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<v Speaker 5>And then, you know, I joined the grade school and

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<v Speaker 5>became a professor, and I started writing all these classes

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<v Speaker 5>about these creatures. And I looked up one day and

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<v Speaker 5>I'm like, I got one hundred you know, creatures and

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<v Speaker 5>forty thousand words. Hey, in three weeks, I can turn

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<v Speaker 5>this into a book, And so I did so.

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<v Speaker 1>In my understanding is sort of a you were looking

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<v Speaker 1>for a practical sort of aspect to it instead of

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<v Speaker 1>just stories. You're wanting something that was concrete that people

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<v Speaker 1>could actually use. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 5>Basically, my whole idea with this book is stuff happens,

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<v Speaker 5>people don't understand what's going on, and if there's something

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<v Speaker 5>like what my goal was to make a book where

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<v Speaker 5>someone who was in a panic because they had things

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<v Speaker 5>happening they didn't understand, could look at this book, read

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<v Speaker 5>through descriptions, find whatever was closest to what they were experiencing,

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<v Speaker 5>and then have two or three concrete things they could

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<v Speaker 5>do to make those weird things stop if they needed

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<v Speaker 5>them to.

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<v Speaker 1>MM, that was okay. So now, because you talked about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of you were writing this stuff and

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<v Speaker 1>writing and stuff, You're suddenly like, oh my god, I've

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I almost got a book here where I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a pretty amazing collection of information. How did you

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<v Speaker 1>assemble it? Was this? Did you was it mostly on

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<v Speaker 1>books on folklore? Did you interview people who personally defended

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<v Speaker 1>themselves against evil entities like ghosts and goblins and pixies

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<v Speaker 1>or what? Where did you get the information that's in

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<v Speaker 1>the book.

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<v Speaker 5>All of the above. I've been researching this stuff since

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<v Speaker 5>God ninety nine earlier. And I have a really nerdy library,

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<v Speaker 5>so I have lots and lots and lots of books

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<v Speaker 5>and folklore, and I also have a lot of personal experience.

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<v Speaker 5>I know a lot of people that have personal experience,

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<v Speaker 5>and so it's a combination of the two that really

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<v Speaker 5>went into this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd love to be a flight on the wall where

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, yeah, hey, Dave, I heard that you defended

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<v Speaker 1>yourself against the goblin the other day. Can you tell

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<v Speaker 1>me about that? I mean, is that kind of how

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<v Speaker 1>it went? Or I mean, how do Yeah?

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, and okay, you have to understand. I teach at

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<v Speaker 5>an online school of magic.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I was going to ask. What is the

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<v Speaker 2>Gray School.

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<v Speaker 5>We have a club that is all about defending yourself

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<v Speaker 5>and I can say, Hey, anyone have any stories they

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<v Speaker 5>want to share, and I get fifty responths of going, hey,

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<v Speaker 5>this thing happened, and this thing happened, this thing happened.

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<v Speaker 5>The Gray School is a online magical school and we

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<v Speaker 5>teach pretty much everything. It's non religious. It's multinational, ages

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<v Speaker 5>eight through one hundred. I think my oldest student is

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<v Speaker 5>seventy four. We teach everything from you know, herbalism to

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<v Speaker 5>terror reading to defensive magic to you know, Alistair Curley

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<v Speaker 5>kind of ceremonial magic, and we teach everything, and yes,

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<v Speaker 5>we do take it seriously.

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<v Speaker 2>Gotcha. So what kind of dangers a weight the unprepared

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<v Speaker 2>or people who don't have some kind of protection, what's knows?

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<v Speaker 2>What's the kind of the worst case scenario from a

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<v Speaker 2>paranormal attack that you've run into?

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<v Speaker 5>Worst case scenario that I can verify actually happened? Women

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<v Speaker 5>had infernal inner house. It pushed her down the stairs.

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<v Speaker 5>She broke both legs and basically a vanishing was done

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<v Speaker 5>and this stopped.

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<v Speaker 1>She makes sure understand. So she she was at the

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<v Speaker 1>top of stairs and some entity pushed her.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, yes, yeah, it does happen. It is obscenely rare,

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<v Speaker 5>like I think it probably happens once every thirty years

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<v Speaker 5>on the planet.

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<v Speaker 1>How would just put putting on my skeptical hat here?

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<v Speaker 1>How would one distinguish that from just sort of tripping

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<v Speaker 1>on stairs?

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<v Speaker 2>As sure?

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<v Speaker 5>Oh totally. There's a couple different ways, and I'm not

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00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.640
<v Speaker 5>sure any of them would really satisfy a hardcore skeptic.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'll throw something out, We'll see what sticks.

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00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:51.440
<v Speaker 5>But I'll put forth and you may take as you will. First,

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<v Speaker 5>for me, it was the fact that I knew the

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00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:57.440
<v Speaker 5>people that were telling me about this, and I know

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00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:02.920
<v Speaker 5>that they're not really sredulous people. They are people who

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<v Speaker 5>have very long kind of standing history with me of

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<v Speaker 5>being quite on the ball. So I trusted that. What

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<v Speaker 5>then they said, I felt two hands that pushed me.

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<v Speaker 5>And you know, there isn't a history of in her

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<v Speaker 5>ear problems. The stairs are level, there was no heat fluctuations.

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<v Speaker 5>There were other witnesses present that watched her lurch from

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<v Speaker 5>the wrong part of her body for tripping kind of things.

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<v Speaker 5>I am just as skeptical as most skeptics, because I

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<v Speaker 5>get a lot of crazy people saying, Oh, my house

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00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:42.279
<v Speaker 5>is haunted, Come and save me. You have bad wiring.

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00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:48.119
<v Speaker 5>Call an electrician. So, yes, I do believe all this

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<v Speaker 5>stuff happened. Do I believe it happens anywhere near as

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<v Speaker 5>often as people think it does. No, No, I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got a lot of very specific guidance for how

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<v Speaker 2>to handle different kinds of attacks, and you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>interested in monsters and RPG background, reading monster books, watching

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<v Speaker 2>monster movies, every monster movie, sort of follows that formula.

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00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:14.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh there's a monster. What do we do to fight it?

423
00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:16.519
<v Speaker 2>We build? You know, what works, what doesn't?

424
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:20.880
<v Speaker 1>We'll find the necronomicon, right, you know, you know three

425
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 1>times the words?

426
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so the you know, So have any of these

427
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:30.119
<v Speaker 2>things been field tested? I guess is the question?

428
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:37.119
<v Speaker 5>Yes? Okay, oh yeah. So I have been practicing magic

429
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.559
<v Speaker 5>for a while now, and there's kind of a Bell

430
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:46.359
<v Speaker 5>curve of magical asininity where when you're first starting, you're

431
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.759
<v Speaker 5>not doing anything, so you're not attracting anything to you.

432
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:54.279
<v Speaker 5>And as you learn just enough, you start to attract

433
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:57.400
<v Speaker 5>things to you, but you're not actually learned enough to

434
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:03.160
<v Speaker 5>not be completely vulnerab and unprotected. And then you learn

435
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.960
<v Speaker 5>more and then you can do things without being incredibly

436
00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:08.880
<v Speaker 5>vulnerable and unprotected. When I was at the top of

437
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.400
<v Speaker 5>that Bell curve, I was with a group of about

438
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:14.039
<v Speaker 5>ten other people that were at that same point in

439
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:18.319
<v Speaker 5>that Bell curve. Bad things happen. It's all a matter

440
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 5>of energy, and you can just look at quantum physics.

441
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:26.920
<v Speaker 5>You've got waves and particles, thoughts, equal waves of energy

442
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.079
<v Speaker 5>moving through your brain. You know, in some theories, those

443
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.160
<v Speaker 5>waves then emanate out from your body and can interact

444
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.720
<v Speaker 5>with other waves and particles when they come out of you,

445
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:41.960
<v Speaker 5>and when they all come together in one big heap,

446
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:44.440
<v Speaker 5>all doing the same thing, the entrain and get the

447
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:49.400
<v Speaker 5>same resonance, and then insane things happen. I went to

448
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.720
<v Speaker 5>a women's college. It was crazy.

449
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.279
<v Speaker 1>There you go. Well, let me just fallow up on that.

450
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like, for example, I just recently finished reading

451
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:02.559
<v Speaker 1>a very good book actually on genies and gin and

452
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 1>I know and I noticed that, of course you cover

453
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:07.759
<v Speaker 1>some of that as well. But for example, it's said

454
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.880
<v Speaker 1>in folklore that both fairies and genies are repelled by

455
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:14.000
<v Speaker 1>iron and salt and other things as well. But but

456
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:15.839
<v Speaker 1>I guess one thing that I always sort of come

457
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.039
<v Speaker 1>back to is that how do we know that's true?

458
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:19.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not I'm not saying it's not true.

459
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm not. I'm just saying how other than you know,

460
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.599
<v Speaker 1>somebody said, how do we know that genies are afraid

461
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.680
<v Speaker 1>of iron? How do we know that fairies? I mean,

462
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:29.279
<v Speaker 1>so how do you address that?

463
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.640
<v Speaker 5>Well, that is not one of the things that I

464
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:38.920
<v Speaker 5>have personal experience in, So the way I look at it,

465
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:42.960
<v Speaker 5>it would make sense to me if a nature spirit

466
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:47.039
<v Speaker 5>was repelled by man made technology that in my brain

467
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:53.880
<v Speaker 5>works for gin. I I don't see a real logical

468
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.880
<v Speaker 5>reason why gin would be repelled by iron, because I

469
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.440
<v Speaker 5>mean in traditional lore there you know, Allah made them

470
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:03.680
<v Speaker 5>from like ocalist fire. Right, So I don't quite know

471
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:05.440
<v Speaker 5>how that and iron would not work together.

472
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Right, you would think that iron being a what could

473
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:12.799
<v Speaker 1>be more earthly than iron? It's mineral all over the place.

474
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.759
<v Speaker 1>So I don't understand why that would be selected or

475
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.839
<v Speaker 1>why anybody would have thought that that would be anathema

476
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.160
<v Speaker 1>to either gin or ferries or anything else.

477
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, iron, iron and steel have been traditional

478
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.119
<v Speaker 2>tools or protection against the supernatural for a long time.

479
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.400
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's usually not lumps of iron ore, it's some

480
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 5>kind of rot metal. Yeah, you know the horseshoe, you've

481
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:40.319
<v Speaker 5>gotten iron nails, and the rot metal has been worked

482
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.720
<v Speaker 5>upon by man in such a way I could see

483
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:44.680
<v Speaker 5>how those connotations were created.

484
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, it probably means that cars being made of iron

485
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 2>or protect protection from gen though, right, that.

486
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.240
<v Speaker 5>Would be a very heavy car. I'm thinking it's some

487
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:56.720
<v Speaker 5>kind of like World War One tank.

488
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

489
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well there you go that my neighbor has one. Yeah,

490
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:01.039
<v Speaker 1>there you go.

491
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Further subject to grimlins, right.

492
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:07.079
<v Speaker 5>They are subject to grimlins?

493
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 2>Are grimlins subject to grimlins? Because that would explain a

494
00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:10.599
<v Speaker 2>lot they kind of.

495
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:14.839
<v Speaker 5>I would think they're kind of tempting fate by calling

496
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 5>them grimlins.

497
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.920
<v Speaker 1>There's a certain twisted logic to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

498
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 1>I just Luis warned you. Blake has as this annoying

499
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.480
<v Speaker 1>tendency to throw some puns. I've tried to cure them

500
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:28.000
<v Speaker 1>of it in the year and a half we've been

501
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.160
<v Speaker 1>doing this podcast, and apparently it's failed miserably. So if

502
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 1>there's any bad puns that come out, just just beware.

503
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:34.200
<v Speaker 1>That's what that is.

504
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.559
<v Speaker 5>Oh, it's all good. I can ignore them with the best.

505
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, a friend of mine actually called me earlier today

506
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>and was having internet problems while I was reading your

507
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:47.039
<v Speaker 2>book preparing for this, and I suggested that we try

508
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:53.319
<v Speaker 2>cleansing ritual. But apparently there was an evil spell that

509
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:54.960
<v Speaker 2>someone had comcast on him.

510
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:04.880
<v Speaker 5>It does happen, oh my isp But they are also

511
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:05.319
<v Speaker 5>the devil.

512
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Seriously, was I think it was that you recommend?

513
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:13.400
<v Speaker 5>Yes? Actually, in folklore, he's kind of the patron saint

514
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:14.200
<v Speaker 5>of technology.

515
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's interesting.

516
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:16.960
<v Speaker 5>Why, I don't really know.

517
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:21.359
<v Speaker 2>I let's be honest, there's technology and folklore. I mean,

518
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:26.880
<v Speaker 2>technology is pretty new compared to folklore. Yes, I saw

519
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.559
<v Speaker 2>that there was like a demon protection that you had

520
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.039
<v Speaker 2>in here that involved Collie, and I found that a

521
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:36.440
<v Speaker 2>little disturbing because he is I don't know if I

522
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:37.720
<v Speaker 2>want his protection.

523
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.839
<v Speaker 5>Or notice that that particular ritual was in the space

524
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:44.799
<v Speaker 5>saying don't ever use this unless you think you're going

525
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:45.319
<v Speaker 5>to die.

526
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a.

527
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 5>Reason it was under that section around unless you have

528
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:54.440
<v Speaker 5>no choice.

529
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.599
<v Speaker 1>I mention that was like a you know, in case

530
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.799
<v Speaker 1>of fire, break.

531
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.799
<v Speaker 5>Glass emergency, break the glass, Yeah.

532
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:05.240
<v Speaker 1>You hide away in the back. All right, let me

533
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.400
<v Speaker 1>let me let me go back to the folklore and

534
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:10.559
<v Speaker 1>myths here, because I've researched quite a bit of folklore.

535
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.400
<v Speaker 1>In fact, later this year, I'm actually presenting at the

536
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 1>American folk or Society UH conference in Indianapolis and Bloomington

537
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>on actually on the folk lore that Chipokaba.

538
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:21.359
<v Speaker 2>I heard that from a friend of a friend.

539
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Now, O good one, so so again sort of just

540
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.359
<v Speaker 1>from a folklore point of view. I enjoyed the book.

541
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.319
<v Speaker 1>But one of the of course, one of the problems

542
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 1>is that is that you know, folklore and myths aren't

543
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.000
<v Speaker 1>always true. You know, a lot of things that people believe,

544
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.960
<v Speaker 1>like not swimming for thirty minutes after eating, or you know,

545
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.400
<v Speaker 1>if you if you go in front of a mirror

546
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 1>and see bloody Mary three times, you know her goes

547
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.279
<v Speaker 1>to pop out. Or if you know a girl won't

548
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.400
<v Speaker 1>get pregnant she jumps backward three times after sex. There's

549
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.839
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of things that, you know, we believe in folklore,

550
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>but we believe that folklore says is true but is

551
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>completely untrue. So how how do you tease out, you know,

552
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>give given that so much of this with drawn from folklore,

553
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.839
<v Speaker 1>how do you how do you assure not only your

554
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>readers but yourself that you're not just simply passing along

555
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 1>bad information that came from another book.

556
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:12.200
<v Speaker 5>Well, the way I look at it in a couple

557
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:17.119
<v Speaker 5>of ways. First, in terms of the folklore stuff. You know,

558
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.319
<v Speaker 5>like you said, folklore is folklore, which is why it's

559
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.400
<v Speaker 5>under the lore section and not necessarily in the back

560
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.319
<v Speaker 5>of the book with all the actual tools.

561
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:26.359
<v Speaker 1>Mhm.

562
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.599
<v Speaker 5>Do I think scattering, you know, grains of rice in

563
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:34.319
<v Speaker 5>front of a vampire will make them stop and compulsively

564
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:36.039
<v Speaker 5>pick them up one by one so you can have

565
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:39.799
<v Speaker 5>time to run away. I'm thinking no, okay, Well, now,

566
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:41.119
<v Speaker 5>to be fair, that put it there.

567
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, well, but that falls in the folklore of

568
00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:48.440
<v Speaker 2>both Eastern and Western culture vampires. So it's OCD for vampires.

569
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:49.839
<v Speaker 2>Does seem to be consistent.

570
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:51.039
<v Speaker 5>It seemed to be quite consistent.

571
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:54.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm a skeptic, right, but I'm telling you it shows up

572
00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:57.799
<v Speaker 2>in the folklore over and over and over again. If

573
00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:01.119
<v Speaker 2>you really think you're facing a vampire, if you really

574
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.279
<v Speaker 2>really think you are if everything says it's a vampire,

575
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.319
<v Speaker 2>I gotta say, I'm gonna throw some rice.

576
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.960
<v Speaker 5>You've got some rice, handy, go for it? Why not?

577
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, look, let me lee. I have to interject here

578
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:16.759
<v Speaker 1>because because I've researched my answers quite a bit, and

579
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.079
<v Speaker 1>bigfoot in choop of Coppa and lake monsters and that,

580
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:22.880
<v Speaker 1>and my position has always been this that if I'm

581
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:25.880
<v Speaker 1>ever confronted by a bigfoot or Chupcaba, or a lake monster

582
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.160
<v Speaker 1>or or the undead, I want to experience that. I

583
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:31.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to run from it. I don't want

584
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.640
<v Speaker 1>to confuse the vampire, make him count a bunch of

585
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.240
<v Speaker 1>grains of rice. I want to, you know, if I'm

586
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.279
<v Speaker 1>out there count if I'm out there in the in

587
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the wilderness, and I hear something that might be big

588
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.079
<v Speaker 1>foot outside my tent, I'm gonna go look. And if

589
00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:45.839
<v Speaker 1>if the if the end result is that I'm the

590
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:47.599
<v Speaker 1>first person who have been proven to be killed by

591
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.119
<v Speaker 1>a bigfoot, all the better. So So that's that's my

592
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.519
<v Speaker 1>position on this is that instead of and I guess

593
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.240
<v Speaker 1>this kind of in a weird way sort of contradicts

594
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 1>the premise of your book. But you know, I I

595
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:01.240
<v Speaker 1>don't want to say that I wouldn't want to protect

596
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.440
<v Speaker 1>myself from these things, but just as as an inquisitive

597
00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:07.400
<v Speaker 1>human being, I would. I would almost kind of rather

598
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.319
<v Speaker 1>be attacked and just sort of I mean I would.

599
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.079
<v Speaker 1>I would find it fast. Yeah, I would find it fascinating. Seriously,

600
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not joking. I would. I would find it fascinating

601
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:18.359
<v Speaker 1>to be by a vampire, especially a succubist.

602
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:21.519
<v Speaker 2>I want to say, yeah, but yeah, but man, yeah,

603
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:25.559
<v Speaker 2>but if you throw that rice, you're not killing the vampire.

604
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:30.160
<v Speaker 2>You're doing science. Man, You're doing science. You're testing a theory.

605
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:33.319
<v Speaker 2>And if the vampire goes and counts that rice, and if.

606
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:35.119
<v Speaker 5>You do it again, you've reproduced the results.

607
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.359
<v Speaker 2>That's true. Look at that. I have to say that's

608
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>I would feel pretty good about that test. Okay, fine,

609
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:44.599
<v Speaker 2>and worst case and I just kept you have to

610
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>say worst case scenario, it's not a vampire. And they're like,

611
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:48.440
<v Speaker 2>why did you throw rice at me?

612
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:48.720
<v Speaker 5>Dude?

613
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:50.440
<v Speaker 2>You're like, oh, I thought we were in a wedding,

614
00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 2>right right? Yeah? The folklore that's a dude. Sorry at this.

615
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 2>So under vampires you talk about psychic vampires, sanguinarian vampires,

616
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.880
<v Speaker 2>and lifestylers, and I have to say, you're really okay,

617
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.200
<v Speaker 2>so quickly, for people who haven't read the book, Psychic vampires, uh,

618
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.079
<v Speaker 2>drain you psychically, They drain your psychic energy. Sanguinarians are

619
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.039
<v Speaker 2>people who really real people who drink your blood voluntarily,

620
00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:25.640
<v Speaker 2>like they want to drink your blood to get your permission.

621
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.279
<v Speaker 2>And lifestylers are people who want to look like vampires

622
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:32.920
<v Speaker 2>and call themselves vampires but don't really like gamers. Right, Okay,

623
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:36.319
<v Speaker 2>So but you you dismissed them as being goth inspired

624
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:38.759
<v Speaker 2>and not dangerous. But what if they get you in

625
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.279
<v Speaker 2>a corner and keep wanting to tell you about their

626
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.440
<v Speaker 2>favorite character. You don't have any defense for that.

627
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but that's not the dark art. That's that's annoying

628
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Speaker 5>people that expertise.

629
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.720
<v Speaker 1>There's not blake. There's nothing we can do about that.

630
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:54.640
<v Speaker 1>She's she's protecting us from vamage.

631
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it's useless and convince.

632
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.440
<v Speaker 1>It's some If it's some goth asshole, that's that's your

633
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:01.000
<v Speaker 1>own problem.

634
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:03.799
<v Speaker 5>Notice how I say, if you know, if a sanguinary

635
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:05.920
<v Speaker 5>and vampire comes after you with a knife, run away,

636
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.760
<v Speaker 5>call the cops. You do say that anyone else running

637
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:11.039
<v Speaker 5>after you with a knife.

638
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Right right, yeah, you absolutely run away, scream, call the cops.

639
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.480
<v Speaker 5>You do say that if a large predator is coming

640
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:21.039
<v Speaker 5>after you, you want a gun, not magic pixie dust. Yeah,

641
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:22.960
<v Speaker 5>it's just common sense.

642
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:24.440
<v Speaker 2>It is, you know.

643
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.599
<v Speaker 5>The magical stuff is for the stuff that you can't see,

644
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.000
<v Speaker 5>that isn't going to you know, rip your throat out.

645
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, you do say if they won't stop talking to you,

646
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:35.159
<v Speaker 2>use common sense and run away, get help or call

647
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 2>the police if necessary. So there is that.

648
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.679
<v Speaker 5>Well, but journey I have to say stuff like that,

649
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:42.199
<v Speaker 5>call the cops.

650
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Well right, but all right, well, all right, let's say

651
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:47.719
<v Speaker 1>you do this. Okay, you believe you just encountered one

652
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.800
<v Speaker 1>of the various types of vampires, and and you go

653
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>to your local police station, You call nine one one,

654
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 1>You say, Hi, I'm I believe that I have just

655
00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:02.000
<v Speaker 1>been attacked or tried to have been lasted by a

656
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:05.159
<v Speaker 1>particular sub subtype of vampire. What do you think the

657
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:06.079
<v Speaker 1>reaction is going to be?

658
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 5>Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I would say,

659
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:12.280
<v Speaker 5>this dude came after me and tried to bite me.

660
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.840
<v Speaker 5>I think he's crazy. Can you have him committed? He's dangerous?

661
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:18.000
<v Speaker 5>You can say that to a cop.

662
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:21.000
<v Speaker 1>But but hold on here, But but isn't there an

663
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:23.639
<v Speaker 1>ethical issue? Because if that, in fact is a vampire,

664
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.239
<v Speaker 1>the cop that you send after maybe.

665
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.599
<v Speaker 5>No, no, no. If you read this, modern vampires, sanguinary

666
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.960
<v Speaker 5>psychic vampires and lifestylars are just people. They are just right.

667
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.920
<v Speaker 1>But but but yes, but what if? What if? What

668
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>if you've mistaken? And actually is.

669
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:46.840
<v Speaker 5>If it's if it's like some ancient classic vampire like exactly,

670
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:49.639
<v Speaker 5>you know what I'm.

671
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.199
<v Speaker 2>Gonna I'm gonna come them's defense here that that's their

672
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 2>job to protect and serve.

673
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:58.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, you know that is cold, dude. That is

674
00:35:58.800 --> 00:35:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the risks.

675
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>They knew the risks.

676
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:04.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they knew the risk that's what they get, you know,

677
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:06.760
<v Speaker 1>they get their blood sucked out, they get raped by Golam.

678
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.320
<v Speaker 1>And then you're like, oh, they knew the risk, they

679
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.599
<v Speaker 1>knew when they signed out rate by Golam.

680
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.039
<v Speaker 5>Really you're a really impressive Golm.

681
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Well I've seen the big one and never mind, Blake,

682
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:18.400
<v Speaker 1>give a question.

683
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Moving on. Okay, So, so the books divided in basically

684
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the two parts, and in the first half you're kind

685
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:30.800
<v Speaker 2>of describing all kinds of dark, malevolent creatures, and in

686
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.079
<v Speaker 2>the second half you go into a lot more detail

687
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 2>about how to do the defensive part. So now I

688
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.280
<v Speaker 2>looked at your spells, and the majority of them start

689
00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 2>with where it's like in vision or imagine and thinking

690
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.000
<v Speaker 2>about these sort of ideas. But I didn't see as

691
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:49.280
<v Speaker 2>much of the Eye of New Feather of Eagle kind

692
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:53.639
<v Speaker 2>of my I was gonna say in RPG terms, there

693
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.440
<v Speaker 2>were lots of verbal components, but not many reagents required

694
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:57.280
<v Speaker 2>for these spells.

695
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:02.079
<v Speaker 5>No. Basically, tools like that and ingredients like that are

696
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.159
<v Speaker 5>generally props and they're all well and good and they

697
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:11.440
<v Speaker 5>can make things more powerful, but you don't need them.

698
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.599
<v Speaker 5>And my point with this book was the stuff that

699
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.639
<v Speaker 5>you know Joe Schmoe is freaked out in his house

700
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:20.360
<v Speaker 5>because it's making freaky sounds. Picks up. This book can

701
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:22.280
<v Speaker 5>do everything in it with what he's already got in

702
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.119
<v Speaker 5>his house. The idea that you have to go and

703
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.599
<v Speaker 5>get some crazy arcane ingredient that is gathered by virgins

704
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:30.760
<v Speaker 5>in the dark of the moon when it was boyd.

705
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:33.559
<v Speaker 5>Of course that's ridiculous.

706
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:39.400
<v Speaker 2>This is interesting because it posed an interesting intellectual question,

707
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.320
<v Speaker 2>all right, and which is this if the majority of

708
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:48.119
<v Speaker 2>your magic involves envisioning or imagining protections for yourself, but

709
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:51.760
<v Speaker 2>you're serious skeptic. When they are encountering these same sort

710
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:54.639
<v Speaker 2>of things, they think to themselves, what is that that is?

711
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 2>That's not a ghost? That is the sound of my

712
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:58.559
<v Speaker 2>house creaking.

713
00:37:58.920 --> 00:37:59.559
<v Speaker 5>Uh huh.

714
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Almost the same thing in a sense in that you're

715
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 2>visualizing mentally what it is it. Yeah, well, yeah, you're

716
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:11.079
<v Speaker 2>nullifying the danger by giving it a rational explanation.

717
00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:12.400
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely.

718
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:16.119
<v Speaker 2>So that's interesting. I don't really have anything to go

719
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.320
<v Speaker 2>there's no questions, just an interesting parallel in that.

720
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.280
<v Speaker 5>It's absolutely true my husband.

721
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Psychological right, So yeah, the.

722
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:27.599
<v Speaker 5>Biggest skeptic in the world. And it's almost like he eats.

723
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:33.639
<v Speaker 2>How big is he that weigh three hundred pounds? No, no, there, he's.

724
00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:38.039
<v Speaker 5>A big guy, but like he's almost like magic comes

725
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:40.960
<v Speaker 5>near him and then just dies under the weight of

726
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:42.360
<v Speaker 5>his power of disbelief.

727
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:48.840
<v Speaker 4>So it's yeah, well all right, let me let me

728
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.280
<v Speaker 4>pick up on that, because I've written in research of

729
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.840
<v Speaker 4>fair amount on ghost and I was actually pleasantly surprised

730
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:56.960
<v Speaker 4>to see a somewhat skeptical bit of a chapter five

731
00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.920
<v Speaker 4>there where you talk about the undead and you get

732
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:00.920
<v Speaker 4>some good advice on not.

733
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Jumping jumping to conclusions about what someone's experiencing is necessarily

734
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:10.280
<v Speaker 1>a ghost, evilentity. But that raises the question, well, in fact,

735
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:11.960
<v Speaker 1>I got it right here you're talking about one of

736
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:13.599
<v Speaker 1>the first things you should do is is you know,

737
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:17.840
<v Speaker 1>look at you have several different criteria here. There's misidentification

738
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:25.599
<v Speaker 1>of natural phenomena, hoaxes, hallucinations, psychosomatic constructs, energetic memories, time slips,

739
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:32.960
<v Speaker 1>diseased humans, and other metaphysical beings. From my experience in

740
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.159
<v Speaker 1>doing some of these investigations, typically I think this is

741
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:39.719
<v Speaker 1>actually a pretty good list. But typically what I find

742
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:44.239
<v Speaker 1>is that the vast majority, if not all, the the

743
00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:46.920
<v Speaker 1>the phenomena fit under your first category, which is miss

744
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:51.039
<v Speaker 1>misidentification of natural phenomena. You know, and the examples you give.

745
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:52.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, just because you're hearing a creaking in your

746
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>house doesn't mean the ghost, just because you're just because

747
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:57.960
<v Speaker 1>you misplaced your keys doesn't mean that you know poultrygeist

748
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:01.400
<v Speaker 1>is playing with you. But that that then reads the question, well,

749
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.880
<v Speaker 1>how do you know? I mean, given that so many

750
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of these these in fact this also you know in Europe,

751
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:09.760
<v Speaker 1>you have an appendix here that talks about some of

752
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.159
<v Speaker 1>the different symptoms. So given that so many of the

753
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:16.960
<v Speaker 1>symptoms are sort of banal ordinary, you know, feeling watched

754
00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:19.039
<v Speaker 1>or feeling not your symptoms.

755
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:23.000
<v Speaker 5>Can be written off if you if you if you

756
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.719
<v Speaker 5>want to say, okay, there's no way this you know, X,

757
00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:29.639
<v Speaker 5>y Z explanation is completely impossible, so I know that's

758
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:34.559
<v Speaker 5>not an option. Therefore this must be misidentification. Any skeptic

759
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:39.719
<v Speaker 5>can take that view, and there's nothing anyone can say

760
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:45.800
<v Speaker 5>that will change that. If you think that it is impossible,

761
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.079
<v Speaker 5>that it's a metaphysical explanation, then you are never going

762
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:53.519
<v Speaker 5>to go that route. If you're someone like me, when

763
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:57.000
<v Speaker 5>I go into a location that someone has said is haunted,

764
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:01.119
<v Speaker 5>you know, I people know that I'm good at this stuff,

765
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 5>so I get all kinds of weird phone calls. If

766
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:09.079
<v Speaker 5>I walk into a location, I can generally tell within

767
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:12.159
<v Speaker 5>minutes if there's actually something going on, because to me,

768
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:17.559
<v Speaker 5>it feels different. But I've experienced this stuff continually my

769
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:20.400
<v Speaker 5>entire life and have been able to kind of hone

770
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:23.800
<v Speaker 5>what that feeling feels like. And if you haven't ever

771
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:26.159
<v Speaker 5>felt it before, you have no frame of reference.

772
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:31.480
<v Speaker 1>So right, But for example, I mean I and just

773
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:33.840
<v Speaker 1>just to clarify, I mean, I would never assume that

774
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.440
<v Speaker 1>there is not a ghost in a haunted location or

775
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:38.920
<v Speaker 1>reputed to hunt location. I'm just trying to figure out

776
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:41.039
<v Speaker 1>what's going on. And if the answer is there's a ghost,

777
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.639
<v Speaker 1>then that's great. I don't you know, it doesn't matter

778
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:49.079
<v Speaker 1>me either way. But I guess the guess I guess

779
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:51.880
<v Speaker 1>what I'm trying to get is where is the line

780
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:58.239
<v Speaker 1>between saying I've looked at enough mundane phenomena and I

781
00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:01.760
<v Speaker 1>can't explain it, therefore it must be X. Where do

782
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:05.239
<v Speaker 1>you draw that line? Because oftentimes people people just you know,

783
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:06.639
<v Speaker 1>they'll give up right away like, well, I don't know,

784
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.519
<v Speaker 1>must be a ghost. Well no, just because you don't

785
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.599
<v Speaker 1>know what it is, does not mean it's a ghost.

786
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:12.519
<v Speaker 1>That's a fallacy.

787
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.000
<v Speaker 5>I don't think you can really draw any kind of

788
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:20.000
<v Speaker 5>hard and fast line universally because it's so dependent on

789
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:24.079
<v Speaker 5>the situation. You know, if one person tells me, I

790
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:26.079
<v Speaker 5>think my house is haunted because of X y Z,

791
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:29.000
<v Speaker 5>and another person tells me, I think math is using

792
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.400
<v Speaker 5>the same X y Z. Depending on the people, I

793
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:34.239
<v Speaker 5>may or may not believe them. You know.

794
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's that too, and then there's also the the

795
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.960
<v Speaker 2>like I see a lot of paranoal investigations where the

796
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:45.280
<v Speaker 2>angle is they're going to try to help, and they

797
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:49.119
<v Speaker 2>go in and they try to gut do imagery to

798
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.559
<v Speaker 2>guide a ghost home. You know, guy goes to the light,

799
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:54.159
<v Speaker 2>and then somebody else might come to the same site

800
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.119
<v Speaker 2>and say, no, no, no, it's not a ghost. It's a demon.

801
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.639
<v Speaker 2>You need to do a cleansing ritual and a prayer.

802
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.559
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, well, okay, well what's really going on?

803
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:03.480
<v Speaker 2>And the skeptic comes in and says, okay, well, what

804
00:43:03.559 --> 00:43:06.639
<v Speaker 2>exactly the lights are flickering, you know, or whatever. We

805
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.199
<v Speaker 2>try to look at each individual aspect of it, but

806
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 2>but it is, it's a it's a tricky problem for

807
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:15.440
<v Speaker 2>everybody who's interested in the paranormal of how do you

808
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:20.960
<v Speaker 2>draw lines and clearly delineate what the appropriate response is.

809
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:24.559
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's it's kind of I look at it kind

810
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.880
<v Speaker 5>of like the psychiatric diagnostics where it's like, if you

811
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:32.000
<v Speaker 5>have five of the fifteen symptoms, you should see a

812
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:37.840
<v Speaker 5>healthcare professional kind of thing. Or if it's if it's

813
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 5>you know, things are moving out of the corner of

814
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.360
<v Speaker 5>your eye, you're seeing sparklys and you have high tension

815
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:48.719
<v Speaker 5>power lines running over your house. That's one scenario. If

816
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:53.239
<v Speaker 5>you watched a book rise up and float across the room,

817
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:56.199
<v Speaker 5>or your child is saying that they're talking to a

818
00:43:56.199 --> 00:44:01.400
<v Speaker 5>little boy in the corner. That's different for me. You know,

819
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:07.639
<v Speaker 5>I'm kind of paranoid, and I liked the air on

820
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:13.880
<v Speaker 5>the side of being overcautious. So if something looks like

821
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:19.199
<v Speaker 5>it's possibly you know, one, two, or three, I will

822
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.239
<v Speaker 5>do whatever is necessary to get rid of the strongest

823
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.119
<v Speaker 5>one of those things. Because whatever we'll get rid of

824
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.280
<v Speaker 5>the stronger one, we'll get rid of the weaker ones.

825
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:29.599
<v Speaker 2>So you try the shotgun approach.

826
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:32.920
<v Speaker 5>Or I tend to go with the nuke and page

827
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.280
<v Speaker 5>most of the time, I air on the side of overkill.

828
00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:41.440
<v Speaker 5>I've gotten a lot better in the last few years

829
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.159
<v Speaker 5>than I was when I was younger and terrified of everything.

830
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 2>So how does it is living with a skeptic problematic

831
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:50.960
<v Speaker 2>or you'll just leave that part of things out, or.

832
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:56.440
<v Speaker 5>We'll be been together for a really long time. So

833
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 5>he's kind of used to it. He tries not to

834
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 5>make on of me too much. Well, I try not

835
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:03.440
<v Speaker 5>to poison.

836
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:10.039
<v Speaker 1>That sounds fair. Yes, you've come to a good a

837
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:13.239
<v Speaker 1>good arrangement there, especially considering that you remember the bar.

838
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I was gonna say the in uh

839
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:20.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, and where it's monster talk, not marriage talk.

840
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.639
<v Speaker 2>But I tell my wife, like, you know, we live together.

841
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, sniping at each other is not a good

842
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:29.239
<v Speaker 2>idea because the targets are always here.

843
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:33.320
<v Speaker 5>You know. I'm also a trained mediator, so I'm pretty

844
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:35.119
<v Speaker 5>good at liaising things.

845
00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:40.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, because when I've talked to to you know, ghost

846
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.679
<v Speaker 1>hunters typically people who are somewhat less skeptical than I am,

847
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.480
<v Speaker 1>And I've run into psychicmediums or whatever else, and they

848
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:50.440
<v Speaker 1>they they they believe they're communicating with ghosts, and I can't.

849
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:52.679
<v Speaker 1>I of course can't prove or disprove that because they're

850
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.679
<v Speaker 1>saying I'm sensing something and it's telling me something, well, I.

851
00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:59.920
<v Speaker 5>Call it unverified personal nosis exactly exactly.

852
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:04.800
<v Speaker 1>But I had an interesting discussion with when an invest

853
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:08.039
<v Speaker 1>to get up in Ontario a while back, and I

854
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:10.920
<v Speaker 1>suggested to him that there needed to be more scientic

855
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.840
<v Speaker 1>methodologies introduced into ghost hunting. And one of the ways

856
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.000
<v Speaker 1>that I thought we might do this would be to

857
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:19.800
<v Speaker 1>have people who claim to be able to communicate with

858
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:23.920
<v Speaker 1>ghosts and meetings whatnot, have them do set up some

859
00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:27.239
<v Speaker 1>double blind tests and have them go to different locations,

860
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:29.639
<v Speaker 1>some of which are reputed to contain ghosts and some

861
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.440
<v Speaker 1>of which are not, and just have you know, have

862
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:36.719
<v Speaker 1>a set of you don't know, eight, ten, twelve different mediums,

863
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.280
<v Speaker 1>whatever it would be statistically significant, and just go in

864
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:42.280
<v Speaker 1>there and say, you know, are you picking up anything here?

865
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:44.519
<v Speaker 1>And if one of them says, yes, oh my god,

866
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.079
<v Speaker 1>there was a six year old girl that was murdered

867
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:48.480
<v Speaker 1>here twenty years ago and her spirit is hunting the hallway,

868
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.679
<v Speaker 1>another person says nothing at all. Another person says, you know,

869
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:56.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm only getting an old man who died, you know,

870
00:46:56.519 --> 00:47:00.880
<v Speaker 1>in a car accident. I mean, you put, that's one

871
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:02.400
<v Speaker 1>way to go about it. I don't know that anyone's

872
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:04.320
<v Speaker 1>really done that, and I'm not sure why that is.

873
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that would be viable uh effort?

874
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:13.199
<v Speaker 5>You know? Okay, now here, I have a personal prejudice

875
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:18.039
<v Speaker 5>against mediums. I don't think getting a group of mediums

876
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:19.679
<v Speaker 5>to go through a house would tell you anything about

877
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.639
<v Speaker 5>the house. It would tell you a lot about the mediums.

878
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.159
<v Speaker 1>I would agree.

879
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:27.119
<v Speaker 5>And I also believe that different people have access to

880
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.760
<v Speaker 5>different energy frequencies. So one person might only get stuff

881
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:32.800
<v Speaker 5>from the faint past, some people might get stuff from

882
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:34.880
<v Speaker 5>the presence. Some people might be any weird ship from

883
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 5>the future. I don't know.

884
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, no, fair enough. But if they're getting if they're

885
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:43.760
<v Speaker 1>getting verifiable information, I mean either either there was a

886
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:45.760
<v Speaker 1>six year old that died in that house or there

887
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:51.159
<v Speaker 1>was not, And if there was not, is wrong medium?

888
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:53.199
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, and that's and that would be the whole

889
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.039
<v Speaker 1>point would be Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right, it's

890
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:57.360
<v Speaker 1>not gonna tell anything about the house. But if the

891
00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:01.280
<v Speaker 1>question is, can can dis bird mediums come up with

892
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.320
<v Speaker 1>the same verifiable information? I mean, so far in my

893
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:07.000
<v Speaker 1>research the answer is almost certainly no. But although I'm open,

894
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm open minded to it. I mean, if they can

895
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.159
<v Speaker 1>do it, then let's test it. But that's I think.

896
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.079
<v Speaker 1>I think you're exactly right. They wouldn't tell anything about

897
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:15.400
<v Speaker 1>the house. It would definitely tell you whether any of

898
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.079
<v Speaker 1>these people are coming up with with legitimate, verifiable information

899
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:21.679
<v Speaker 1>at a rate higher than you would expect.

900
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:24.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. Well, the other thing with mediums is the other

901
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.280
<v Speaker 5>reason I'm not a huge fan of mediums is that

902
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:29.559
<v Speaker 5>I don't necessarily think all mediums are picking up on

903
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:31.880
<v Speaker 5>what's there. I think some of them are calling things

904
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.599
<v Speaker 5>that might show up while they're there and then go away. Again.

905
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:40.440
<v Speaker 5>I have no way of proving this pet theory, but okay,

906
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.159
<v Speaker 5>because I don't, I have never met a medium that

907
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:46.159
<v Speaker 5>impressed me.

908
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:52.119
<v Speaker 2>B yog. Yeah, if I could.

909
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:55.360
<v Speaker 5>I summon forth a ghost? Yeah? Yeah, I could. Would

910
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:59.039
<v Speaker 5>I know it's completely unethical and stupid, but.

911
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:03.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess the question is could you could you summon

912
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:08.280
<v Speaker 1>a ghost that that would make its presence known to skeptics?

913
00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:09.079
<v Speaker 5>Probably not?

914
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:12.159
<v Speaker 1>And but why why would that be? Would that be

915
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:14.800
<v Speaker 1>because the ghost would refuse or what? Why why would

916
00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:15.079
<v Speaker 1>that be?

917
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:17.599
<v Speaker 5>One? If I was a person and I got some

918
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:19.519
<v Speaker 5>in someplace I didn't want to go. I would not

919
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:27.039
<v Speaker 5>perform like a trained bear. So there's that aspect. And

920
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:32.039
<v Speaker 5>you know, when I experienced a ghost, it is the

921
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 5>most incredibly faint back of your brain, shadowy weirdness that

922
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:43.599
<v Speaker 5>I can possibly express. It is not a concrete thing.

923
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:46.679
<v Speaker 5>I have had experiences where I looked in a corner,

924
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.239
<v Speaker 5>saw something and it had two people next to me

925
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:51.679
<v Speaker 5>immediately turn and look at it, and each one describe

926
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.239
<v Speaker 5>half of what I just saw. I have had that

927
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:58.599
<v Speaker 5>experience and it freaked me out. So yes, there are

928
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:02.760
<v Speaker 5>some ghosts that can come solid enough to make themselves known.

929
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:07.519
<v Speaker 5>Is it repeatable in any kind of scientifically proven way?

930
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:12.000
<v Speaker 5>Certainly not in my experience. And I completely accept the

931
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.039
<v Speaker 5>fact that most of the things that I believe were

932
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:16.000
<v Speaker 5>things that I could never prove to anybody else. And

933
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:16.880
<v Speaker 5>I'm okay with that.

934
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, does that pose a problem to you coming from

935
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a legal background, if you had to like prove these

936
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:25.119
<v Speaker 2>things in court? And do you think of things that

937
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:27.519
<v Speaker 2>if you don't think of it in terms of skeptic

938
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:29.880
<v Speaker 2>believer type, do you think of it in terms of

939
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:32.400
<v Speaker 2>legal burdener proof kind of ways?

940
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:35.119
<v Speaker 5>You know, I have a whole thing about you can't

941
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.159
<v Speaker 5>do banishings unless you have standing in a court of

942
00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:40.480
<v Speaker 5>law kind of thing. The legal brain does come in

943
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.480
<v Speaker 5>on occasion for this kind of thing. It's really more

944
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:48.599
<v Speaker 5>that I'm very scientific. I mean, I did a lot

945
00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:53.599
<v Speaker 5>of computer programming. I've always been a big geek. MythBusters

946
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:57.760
<v Speaker 5>is my favorite TV show kind of thing where the

947
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:02.079
<v Speaker 5>fact that there is no tendently verifiable, repeatable way of

948
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:06.119
<v Speaker 5>testing this stuff that I've ever seen used reliably means

949
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 5>that we don't have the technology to do it yet.

950
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:10.880
<v Speaker 5>Because I know in my experience that certain things exist.

951
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:13.519
<v Speaker 5>Can I prove it? No? Do I think someday we

952
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:17.960
<v Speaker 5>may have the ability technologically to verify I think sure.

953
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.079
<v Speaker 5>But I could say the same thing about the Lawless

954
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:24.559
<v Speaker 5>Monster and UFOs and you know Paris Hilton's soul.

955
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:30.360
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, but no, well no, but you know, but

956
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:31.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know about Paris Hilton. But there's

957
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:34.320
<v Speaker 1>no There's another element here, which is that is that

958
00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, as you know, there are already people who

959
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:38.800
<v Speaker 1>claim and I've met many of them, and I'm sure

960
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 1>you have as well. They are already ghost hunters and

961
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:45.760
<v Speaker 1>ghosts investigators who claim that they are the equipment they're using,

962
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:49.239
<v Speaker 1>whether it's cameras, infrared, take a pick, that they are

963
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.880
<v Speaker 1>already detecting ghosts and they are detecting spirits. So see,

964
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:54.400
<v Speaker 1>you can't really have it both ways. On one hand

965
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:56.400
<v Speaker 1>saying well, the reason we don't have a good evidence

966
00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:58.960
<v Speaker 1>for these things that we haven't evolved the technology yet.

967
00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:00.840
<v Speaker 1>But on the other hand, you have all these people

968
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:03.639
<v Speaker 1>who are who are pointing to orbs and and you know,

969
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:06.280
<v Speaker 1>cold spots and this and that and saying or emf

970
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:08.480
<v Speaker 1>variations and saying that this is a ghost.

971
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:13.440
<v Speaker 2>So actually say, as Emily made a she stayed a

972
00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:19.840
<v Speaker 2>position on the use of equipment, I didn't hear you.

973
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:21.920
<v Speaker 1>I was I wasn't asking her to defend it. I'm

974
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:23.840
<v Speaker 1>just I'm just pointing out that that we have this,

975
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, on Yeah, they kind of want to have

976
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:27.400
<v Speaker 1>it both ways.

977
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:32.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, No, that's absolutely true. I have never used ghost

978
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:38.360
<v Speaker 5>hunting equipment, so I don't have a real hands on

979
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:41.320
<v Speaker 5>kind of a pinion on it. I would have to

980
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:45.840
<v Speaker 5>see more than what I have seen on television to

981
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:48.360
<v Speaker 5>really have a lot of faith in it. You know,

982
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:51.320
<v Speaker 5>if you see an object moving and there's nobody there,

983
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:56.760
<v Speaker 5>you've captured something is that necessarily a ghost? Not necessarily,

984
00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:57.480
<v Speaker 5>but you've.

985
00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Keptured probably depending on what it.

986
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:03.960
<v Speaker 5>Is, you know, it all depends, you know, And with

987
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:08.599
<v Speaker 5>the kinds of you know, post production editing techniques that

988
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:12.320
<v Speaker 5>are available today. Unless I was there and could see

989
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:14.679
<v Speaker 5>the entire post production process, I don't know that I

990
00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:18.760
<v Speaker 5>would believe it even if I was seeing it. You know.

991
00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:22.000
<v Speaker 5>That's the problem with man made tools is we are

992
00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:26.719
<v Speaker 5>interpreting the data and you can't have a double blind

993
00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:30.639
<v Speaker 5>with a ghost hunter. You know, when you watch like

994
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:34.880
<v Speaker 5>some of these shows, some of them are relatively rigorous about,

995
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:39.039
<v Speaker 5>you know, saying, oh, look that fluorescent light bulb is

996
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:42.199
<v Speaker 5>giving off an EMF field of fifty or whatever, and

997
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.559
<v Speaker 5>the other one's going, oh my god, there was a noise.

998
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:51.159
<v Speaker 5>It must be a demon. So I have yet to

999
00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:54.079
<v Speaker 5>meet people that use them that I've known enough to

1000
00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:59.760
<v Speaker 5>have respect for to say yes or no. Is it possible? Sure?

1001
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:00.760
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

1002
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:03.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me ask you this, the of all the

1003
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:06.000
<v Speaker 1>of the creatures that you talk about, the spirits and

1004
00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:09.519
<v Speaker 1>the vampires and all these different things and including ghosts,

1005
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:13.159
<v Speaker 1>is it your opinion that they want themselves to be

1006
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:15.360
<v Speaker 1>known or they don't want themselves to be known.

1007
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.079
<v Speaker 5>I think it depends on what works best to their advantage.

1008
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:24.320
<v Speaker 5>Some of them really like scaring people, and so if

1009
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:28.559
<v Speaker 5>they can just be up just enough that you know

1010
00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:30.880
<v Speaker 5>something's wrong but you don't know what, that might be

1011
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:32.840
<v Speaker 5>better for them than for them for you to know

1012
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:36.320
<v Speaker 5>exactly what's going on. Certain other ones might be you know,

1013
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:38.920
<v Speaker 5>a ghost with physics visions that needs you to, you know,

1014
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.760
<v Speaker 5>dig a box out of the wall. They want you

1015
00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:43.679
<v Speaker 5>to know that they're there and to do what they

1016
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:49.039
<v Speaker 5>need you to do. It really really depends and.

1017
00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, because it seems to me that that you know,

1018
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.199
<v Speaker 1>if if a if you know, if collectively the spirits

1019
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.559
<v Speaker 1>or these entities or even one particular one, one particular

1020
00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:02.239
<v Speaker 1>ghost really really wanted to prove its its its existence

1021
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:04.679
<v Speaker 1>and wanted to I mean, there are ways that this

1022
00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:08.119
<v Speaker 1>could be done. I mean, I I there's just so much,

1023
00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:11.960
<v Speaker 1>particularly when you're talking about ghosts, there's so much very nominal,

1024
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.519
<v Speaker 1>ambiguous stuff and that and that, you know, if I mean,

1025
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:17.480
<v Speaker 1>I was doing a ghost out one time and I

1026
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:18.880
<v Speaker 1>was talking to a guy there and he's like, well,

1027
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:21.360
<v Speaker 1>you know what will convince you that there there's ghosts here?

1028
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:23.760
<v Speaker 1>And I said, well, there's a Grandfather clock over there.

1029
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:25.559
<v Speaker 1>If that, you know, did some tumbling in the air

1030
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:26.760
<v Speaker 1>and right in front of me and there's no one

1031
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:30.199
<v Speaker 1>near it, I would say that's pretty good evidence. And

1032
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:33.440
<v Speaker 1>so I don't think it's that skeptics. So so I

1033
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:36.000
<v Speaker 1>guess part part of my question is is that, you know,

1034
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:39.719
<v Speaker 1>it just seems curious that that all the ghosts so

1035
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:41.960
<v Speaker 1>far U at least the ones that I'm aware of,

1036
00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:46.159
<v Speaker 1>they they they just give little tidbits, little hints. They

1037
00:55:46.159 --> 00:55:49.440
<v Speaker 1>don't they don't. They either don't exist, or they they

1038
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.760
<v Speaker 1>don't or they they're they're teasing for some unknown reason.

1039
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:55.039
<v Speaker 1>Because if he seems to me, if they really wanted

1040
00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to clearly make themselves known, same thing with Bigfoot or

1041
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:00.960
<v Speaker 1>UFOs or extra tractics, if they if they're like, I

1042
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.320
<v Speaker 1>want humanity to know that we exist, then they could

1043
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:05.119
<v Speaker 1>have done that. By now.

1044
00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:13.119
<v Speaker 5>I think that's probably true for ghosts. You know, I

1045
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:17.000
<v Speaker 5>don't know that they necessarily have the amount of energy

1046
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:19.559
<v Speaker 5>necessary to do that kind of thing. You know, on

1047
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:24.159
<v Speaker 5>Q is it has some ghosts throughout history had that ability. Sure,

1048
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:27.679
<v Speaker 5>probably I would imagine, you know, are some of these

1049
00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:29.960
<v Speaker 5>creatures capable of doing that? Yeah, is it in their

1050
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:33.679
<v Speaker 5>you know, best interest to do so? Not necessarily.

1051
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, but at that point, you're reading the mind

1052
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:37.159
<v Speaker 1>of a ghost, right.

1053
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.639
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Well is exactly what you're asking me to do.

1054
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Though. I was to say, you're kind of saying that though,

1055
00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:47.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're we're kind of describing human intent on

1056
00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:49.280
<v Speaker 2>something that we can't even prove.

1057
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, but that happens all the time where someone says, well,

1058
00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:55.039
<v Speaker 1>the reason, you know, the reason this this ghost appeared

1059
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:58.519
<v Speaker 1>to me was, I mean, people ascribe reason human reasons

1060
00:56:58.599 --> 00:56:59.639
<v Speaker 1>to ghosts all the time.

1061
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:00.480
<v Speaker 2>That sure they do.

1062
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:01.159
<v Speaker 1>It's warnings.

1063
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:04.360
<v Speaker 5>I'm supposed to be dead people. Therefore they are human

1064
00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:05.360
<v Speaker 5>and think humanly.

1065
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1066
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:09.360
<v Speaker 5>I can't describe the same kind of motivations to you know,

1067
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:11.760
<v Speaker 5>a gin or a lenin she that you would to

1068
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:12.280
<v Speaker 5>a ghost.

1069
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's also never were, But there's also non human ghosts.

1070
00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:22.320
<v Speaker 5>There's a lot of non human metaphysical entities like.

1071
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:23.639
<v Speaker 2>Dog ghosts or horse.

1072
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's there's stage ghosts, there's train ghosts, and those.

1073
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Residuals which are broken down here. Yeah. Interesting anyway, Okay,

1074
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:39.039
<v Speaker 2>so clearly you know we're skeptics, obviously, you know that's

1075
00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:41.960
<v Speaker 2>cool and and I want to say, I really appreciate

1076
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:44.159
<v Speaker 2>you coming on and talking to us, because I think

1077
00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:48.639
<v Speaker 2>I would say, I'm guessing our audience is probably ninety

1078
00:57:48.679 --> 00:57:53.079
<v Speaker 2>percent skeptical people. And then you know passers by who

1079
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:55.280
<v Speaker 2>get interested in a particular topic. You know, as each

1080
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:59.320
<v Speaker 2>episode is on a particular monster type. So here we're

1081
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:03.679
<v Speaker 2>doing a why a range of monsters, and your book

1082
00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:07.360
<v Speaker 2>covers all kinds of monsters. And again, although I'm a

1083
00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:10.599
<v Speaker 2>skeptic and don't necessarily believe the contents of your book,

1084
00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 2>I did find it very fun reading it, so I'm

1085
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:16.880
<v Speaker 2>excited to have it as part of my library.

1086
00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:20.239
<v Speaker 1>And Blake, let me just say that that just you know,

1087
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:22.519
<v Speaker 1>whether you believe what you wrote or not, if you

1088
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:23.840
<v Speaker 1>encounter these things.

1089
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:27.760
<v Speaker 5>I will say, you will be testing exactly what to do.

1090
00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:30.519
<v Speaker 2>And I can tell you one more thing this you

1091
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:33.400
<v Speaker 2>may even if you may find interesting.

1092
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.119
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

1093
00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:36.400
<v Speaker 2>While I don't know if any of your spells work

1094
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:39.079
<v Speaker 2>or not, I can guarantee you that when you talked

1095
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:43.320
<v Speaker 2>about quantum energy earlier, you made half my audience's head explode.

1096
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:47.639
<v Speaker 5>We have several classes on quantum physics at the grade

1097
00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:48.840
<v Speaker 5>school in our magical.

1098
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:50.639
<v Speaker 2>Science there with the other half of my audience. So

1099
00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:55.920
<v Speaker 2>it's like for them when they hear someone who's on

1100
00:58:55.960 --> 00:58:58.480
<v Speaker 2>the new age side of things talk about quantum energy,

1101
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.559
<v Speaker 2>it's like an it guy hearing his grandma asking about

1102
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:03.119
<v Speaker 2>Linux device drivers.

1103
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:05.960
<v Speaker 5>It's I think I came on the show. We're not

1104
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:09.920
<v Speaker 5>all crazy people with tinfoil hats. I swear some of

1105
00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:11.800
<v Speaker 5>us are totally normal weirdos.

1106
00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:14.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, there you go, and you fit right in.

1107
00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:16.159
<v Speaker 2>All right. So here's my question for you that we

1108
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:21.559
<v Speaker 2>always like to ask our guests. What's your favorite monster? Hmm?

1109
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:24.440
<v Speaker 2>It could be any kind of depends on the day.

1110
00:59:25.239 --> 00:59:25.760
<v Speaker 2>That's why.

1111
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:33.920
<v Speaker 5>At the moment, I think the Wild Hunt is my favorite. Okay, okay,

1112
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:38.280
<v Speaker 5>just so unfathomable. I love it now.

1113
00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:40.480
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't want to like Okay, I don't want

1114
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:42.079
<v Speaker 2>to be wrong. I hate being wrong on my own show.

1115
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:46.599
<v Speaker 2>But that's isn't that like a spectral event that happens

1116
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:49.639
<v Speaker 2>sometimes we're Yeah, okay.

1117
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:53.159
<v Speaker 5>It's a big horde of special writers that you know,

1118
00:59:53.239 --> 00:59:56.320
<v Speaker 5>depending on which country and folklore you're looking at, are

1119
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:58.880
<v Speaker 5>either going to come down to you know, sweep up

1120
00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:01.000
<v Speaker 5>the souls of the bad deep, or just to run

1121
01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:03.079
<v Speaker 5>down whomever happens to be on their road at night.

1122
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:05.599
<v Speaker 2>The classes don't be caught on the moors at night

1123
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:06.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of things, right, So.

1124
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:09.880
<v Speaker 5>Exactly like I think in like Sweden, there are certain

1125
01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.679
<v Speaker 5>roads that are old and completely defunct that they refuse

1126
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.719
<v Speaker 5>to kind of like re root because it's the root

1127
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:20.519
<v Speaker 5>of the wild hunt nice, cool, good as I just

1128
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:23.199
<v Speaker 5>think it's the most fascinating experience. And because in America

1129
01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:25.760
<v Speaker 5>we have the ghostwriter phenomenon, it's really cool.

1130
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:26.719
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1131
01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:28.559
<v Speaker 2>I've always wanted to see Will of the Whisp too,

1132
01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:30.119
<v Speaker 2>which just speaking of swamp I.

1133
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:35.599
<v Speaker 5>Have seen those. It's weird. It's really weird, particularly when

1134
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:37.239
<v Speaker 5>you're not anywhere near swamp gas.

1135
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Would you, I was gonna say, would you classify that

1136
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.199
<v Speaker 2>as a supernatural event or a natural event? When you

1137
01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:43.000
<v Speaker 2>saw it? What did it look like? Something that was

1138
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.199
<v Speaker 2>mundane or are you know?

1139
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:48.639
<v Speaker 5>I have seen some weird, weird stuff in my time.

1140
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:53.519
<v Speaker 5>I have to have Internet action of it did not

1141
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:54.800
<v Speaker 5>seem natural to me.

1142
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, the way it moved.

1143
01:00:56.599 --> 01:01:00.960
<v Speaker 5>It moved at like weird spastic right angles with reading speeds,

1144
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:05.920
<v Speaker 5>which to me does not seem natural. Could be sure,

1145
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:08.079
<v Speaker 5>but it didn't seem that way to me.

1146
01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:11.400
<v Speaker 2>I love swamp fishing, and I spent a lot of

1147
01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:14.239
<v Speaker 2>time in the summertime at night, you know, out at

1148
01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:17.639
<v Speaker 2>the swamps fishing, wishing so badly that I would see

1149
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:19.760
<v Speaker 2>something like that and there were sausages, and so that's

1150
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:22.960
<v Speaker 2>my bad luck, all right. So what do you have

1151
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:25.280
<v Speaker 2>anything else upcoming in the future, new books or other

1152
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:26.239
<v Speaker 2>projects you're working on.

1153
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:31.000
<v Speaker 5>I'm writing my second book, which will be even more

1154
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:33.159
<v Speaker 5>credulous than the first or.

1155
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Now man book now.

1156
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:41.639
<v Speaker 5>Now, the my second book that I'm writing is kind

1157
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:46.039
<v Speaker 5>of for people, kind of that other people will already

1158
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:48.440
<v Speaker 5>go to when there are problems, kind of an advanced book,

1159
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:50.719
<v Speaker 5>so pretty much I teach it.

1160
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:53.079
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, if my listeners want to get

1161
01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:55.199
<v Speaker 2>to the Gray School and take one of your magical

1162
01:01:55.239 --> 01:01:56.679
<v Speaker 2>defense classes, where would they go.

1163
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:01.000
<v Speaker 5>It's www dot Gray School dot com. And you can

1164
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:03.760
<v Speaker 5>go to my website, which is, you know, www dot

1165
01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:09.360
<v Speaker 5>e diet Dashcarlin dot com. You can email me Emily

1166
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:13.719
<v Speaker 5>at Dashcarlin dot com. And uh, I'm happy to talk

1167
01:02:13.719 --> 01:02:17.000
<v Speaker 5>to skeptical people. I have no problem talking to people

1168
01:02:17.079 --> 01:02:20.679
<v Speaker 5>that actually think they make me happy as opposed to

1169
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:21.920
<v Speaker 5>the opposite.

1170
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:24.159
<v Speaker 1>That's why you wanted to have you on, because I

1171
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:26.599
<v Speaker 1>could tell just from from the book. I'm like, you

1172
01:02:26.599 --> 01:02:28.840
<v Speaker 1>know what, I think she'd be fun to talk to,

1173
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:29.639
<v Speaker 1>and I was right.

1174
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:33.360
<v Speaker 2>So there, this was very entertaining and I really appreciate

1175
01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:35.400
<v Speaker 2>you coming on. I always worry that I don't want

1176
01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:39.079
<v Speaker 2>to get a bad reputation with people who believe in

1177
01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:42.840
<v Speaker 2>the paranormal. Uh you know, if you know, I don't

1178
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:45.639
<v Speaker 2>see enough proof, but I've had lots of interesting experiences

1179
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:48.000
<v Speaker 2>and I just I'm it's really nice. So thank you

1180
01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:49.800
<v Speaker 2>very much for stating some time with us.

1181
01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:53.239
<v Speaker 1>It was good, fun, cool, awesome, good luck with the book.

1182
01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Morebstertle. Thanks for listening to this episode of Monster Talk.

1183
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:02.199
<v Speaker 2>You heard Blake Smith, My Ealth and Ben Radford interview

1184
01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:05.760
<v Speaker 2>author Lawyer and which Emily Carlin about her book Defense

1185
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:08.760
<v Speaker 2>against the Dark. A link to Emily's website and her

1186
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:10.719
<v Speaker 2>book will be in the show notes at monster talk

1187
01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:13.960
<v Speaker 2>dot org orskeptic dot com. I want to thank everyone

1188
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:16.960
<v Speaker 2>for their continued support of our transcript project. We have

1189
01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:20.000
<v Speaker 2>several episodes up now and these transcripts help us in

1190
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.960
<v Speaker 2>several ways, including helping people find the information from our

1191
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:27.000
<v Speaker 2>show using search engines, making the episodes more easily referenceable.

1192
01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:30.639
<v Speaker 2>On Wikipedia and for use in a future video project,

1193
01:03:30.679 --> 01:03:33.719
<v Speaker 2>which I'm going to be doing. If eleven people donate

1194
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:36.679
<v Speaker 2>five dollars, it pays for a transcript, which is fantastic

1195
01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.039
<v Speaker 2>and I really appreciate all the people who've helped with this.

1196
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:41.760
<v Speaker 2>If you can't afford such a donation and you still

1197
01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:44.480
<v Speaker 2>want to help us tell other people about our show,

1198
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:46.960
<v Speaker 2>we'd love to have new listeners or give us a

1199
01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:50.880
<v Speaker 2>positive review on iTunes and help strangers find us. And

1200
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:53.480
<v Speaker 2>thanks again to everyone who contributed to the munster Talk

1201
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:56.719
<v Speaker 2>t shirt contest. We had some fantastic interries and we're

1202
01:03:56.760 --> 01:03:59.480
<v Speaker 2>just judging them now. The finalists will be posted on

1203
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:01.920
<v Speaker 2>our Facebook page and you'll be able to contribute your

1204
01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:03.840
<v Speaker 2>own votes and comments, which will be a factor in

1205
01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the final selection. More on that later. Monster Talk is

1206
01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:10.679
<v Speaker 2>an official podcast of Skeptic Magazine, and the content of

1207
01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:12.880
<v Speaker 2>the show does not necessarily reflect the views of the

1208
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Skeptic Society or of Skeptic Magazine. Monster Talk's theme music

1209
01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:22.559
<v Speaker 2>is by Pete Stealing Monkeys, and really thank you very

1210
01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:23.840
<v Speaker 2>very much for listening.

1211
01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:58.920
<v Speaker 3>I want to stay abreast of the latest from Skeptic

1212
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:03.599
<v Speaker 3>Magazine and the Skeptic Society. Want cutting edge skeptical articles

1213
01:05:03.639 --> 01:05:08.039
<v Speaker 3>delivered straight to your inbox every week. Then subscribe to

1214
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:12.360
<v Speaker 3>E Skeptic, the free electronic newsletter of the Skeptic Society.

1215
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:15.519
<v Speaker 3>Visits skeptic dot com to sign up.

1216
01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:18.239
<v Speaker 1>All right, how's my audio testing?

1217
01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:18.800
<v Speaker 5>Now?

1218
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:22.800
<v Speaker 1>It's good now check check check check check check check, check.

1219
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Off, check off, cough check off.

1220
01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:30.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh, good time.