WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.799 Good evening, viewers, and thank you for joining us. On 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:07.360 this week's last segment, we are going to go over 3 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:11.839 to Ukraine and talk about the Chernobyl nuclear reactor, once 4 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:16.280 destroyed in the nineteen eighties, again apparently destroyed, and some 5 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.399 of our panel members have different opinions about how dangerous 6 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:22.000 it really is. But to take us away our very 7 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.280 own Tracy Wilbert. 8 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:26.679 On April twenty sixth, nineteen eighty six, at one twenty 9 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.559 three am local time, the number four reactor in Chernobyl, Ukraine, 10 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:34.200 which was at the time in the USSR, exploded. There 11 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:37.880 have been a number of documentaries and books and series 12 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.039 on the event, which I encourage you all to look 13 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.640 into if you're interested. In December of the same year, 14 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.520 work was completed on a sarcophagus of sorts intended to 15 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.759 contain the spread of radioactive contamination from the site, and 16 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:51.960 from twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen construction began and was 17 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:57.000 completed on a massive Quanzit shaped containment vessel over reactor four, 18 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.520 and on February fourteenth of this year, a Russia controlled 19 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:06.120 drone struck that containment vessel with explosives, damaging the vessel 20 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:08.439 and potentially endangering all of us. 21 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:10.159 This story is from. 22 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:15.760 Routers by Yuri Kovalenko on April thirteenth to twenty twenty five. 23 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:18.040 I don't know how to say that word, right, That's 24 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:18.640 why I said it. 25 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:23.400 Weird, ruders, rutiers, ruters. We got one of those, is right? 26 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.159 Yeah? Yeah, well we should just say it every way 27 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:28.519 we can imagine, and then find out which one is 28 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.359 right and clip that one and just play it with 29 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:31.799 the video. 30 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:33.599 Nobody will beat, nobody will find out. 31 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:38.560 Yeah, nonethewise, anyway, thank you for that wonderful and insightful introduction. 32 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:43.079 You know, I want to know how important is this really, Tracy? 33 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.319 What are your thoughts on why this was struck on 34 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:49.560 Valentine's Day of all places, of all days, by the way, 35 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:54.319 but this being struck particularly, I think it's got I 36 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:59.680 think it's got more impacts than just maybe a functional one. 37 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:01.879 You know, what are your thoughts on why it was hit? 38 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:03.640 It's really hard to say. 39 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.680 It's really hard to say because I don't see any communication. 40 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.400 I read the article, and I really didn't see any 41 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:14.960 communication except for from you know, Mariah Zakaroka. She called 42 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:20.960 the incident a provocation. I don't know what are they 43 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.000 trying to do. They trying to you know, let out 44 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.400 the radiation because if they breach that, if they breach 45 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:33.599 the inner sarcophagus, then there is a threat of radioactive 46 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:37.520 material being spread. Right now, just the damage to the 47 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:42.879 to the overarching container, it were really okay. But if 48 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.520 they breached the inner sarcophagus that is basically just a 49 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:49.520 whole bunch of plates on the actual reactor building itself, 50 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:51.120 then then. 51 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:52.479 There's a there's a there's a threat. 52 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.479 There's you know, birds could come down and pick up 53 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:58.479 some radioactive material, fly it somewhere, it could be blown 54 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:00.680 away by the wind, it could be and then get 55 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:03.120 into the rained on and get into the groundwater like that. 56 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:07.199 I mean, there are subterranean defenses against that, but it 57 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.280 is a provocation. It sort of shows to me that 58 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:12.879 then they're gonna stop at nothing and get to get 59 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:14.599 their way and to get what they want. If that 60 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:18.319 means they have to you know, spread radioactive material, then 61 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:19.159 that's what they're gonna do. 62 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:23.319 And just to clarify for all of our viewers, Mariyah 63 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.680 Zakarovka is a Russian politician serves as the director of 64 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.879 Information and Press Department, So probably like our press secretary is, 65 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:34.479 but the press secretary for the Ministry of Foreign to 66 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.919 Foreign Affairs in Russia and so on that note. Yeah, 67 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:42.000 I would say at first glance, this looks hazardous to me. 68 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:46.520 Chernobyl has been closed off since the nineteen eighties, regardless 69 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.319 of the fact that the Minister of Environmental Protection and 70 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.759 Natural Resources in Ukraine by the name of Svitlana Krinchuk, 71 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:57.840 says that you know, for many years the exclusion zone 72 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:01.360 has needed to be transform formed into a zone of 73 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.639 renewal and that this territory is like no other in 74 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:10.240 Ukraine and is suitable for developing renewable energy projects. I am, 75 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:14.280 I having not that much background on nuclear energy and 76 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.480 maybe the engineering that goes into a facility like this, 77 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:20.959 is a little bit surprised to hear about this. And 78 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:23.000 I know EJ wants to talk about it so bad, 79 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.519 which is why I'm gonna go to Rob next, because 80 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.800 I can see EJ squirming in his seat, cracking his neck, 81 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.439 and I know that he's got a lot to say. 82 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:35.319 So Rob, what what is the significance of this? Maybe 83 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.720 you know some of the details about it. They use 84 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:41.560 the high explosive warhead was it necessary to hit this. 85 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:43.199 Who's right? 86 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:45.920 Is it Russia? Is it Ukraine? And what are your 87 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:47.079 thoughts on this whole ordeal? 88 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:51.639 So I like, I like tangents, and then I'll loop 89 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:53.600 back around, I promise, because it kind of reminds me 90 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:56.720 of like anytime my dad and I would watch something 91 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.639 and it's like finding Bigfoot, and they never do and 92 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.199 because if they did, we'd hear about it in the news. 93 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.600 We are not being bombarded by constant warnings of imminent 94 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:14.639 global destruction, so it's probably okay, but that's kind of 95 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.800 not the point because it makes it honestly makes me 96 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:20.079 think of domestic violence, where it's like if you punch 97 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:23.879 a wall, what you're doing is you're demonstrating, not necessarily, 98 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.279 you're demonstrating that you can be violent. It's kind of 99 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.480 like putting your finger out and being like, I'm not 100 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:30.720 touching you. Well, in this case, I did touch you, 101 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:33.079 but it was just for a second. Like it's the 102 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.399 attack was intentional. I was actually really curious about that. 103 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.000 The article didn't say, so I went out looking for 104 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:42.000 another one and the New York Times said, quote the 105 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:46.399 breach was also deliberate. They said that it punched right 106 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.480 through at one fifty nine am on Friday by a 107 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.839 Russian drone with a high explosive warhead. So it's just 108 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:55.519 the attack was a message. They meant, They meant to 109 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:57.439 say something. It's the only thing this could mean, because 110 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.319 otherwise they were, you know, hoping to actually cause Hadas 111 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.040 traffic danger, which I really doubt they're trying to do 112 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:05.959 because they're right next to the problem. So this is 113 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:10.120 just uh, this is uh posturing and it's dangerous. 114 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.279 Yep, yep. I agree, And I think that you know, 115 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:18.439 Russia in this conflict is trying to tell people, look, 116 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:24.120 take us seriously, we will enact more dangerous attacks. This 117 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:26.560 is just an example of one. And the reason why 118 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.720 it can be perceived as dangerous is because so many 119 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:33.600 of us who are used to hearing the age age 120 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:38.240 old adage I guess, or the example of Chernobyl being 121 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:42.120 a really dangerous place think automatically, WHOA, there was an 122 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:44.560 attack on it, we must be in grave danger. And 123 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.680 I think most of the world thinks that, and Russia 124 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:51.439 wants to be taken seriously. EJ. Without further ado, please 125 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:59.680 talk to us about the attack on Chernobyl. He couldn't 126 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.399 take it anymore. His head would explore. 127 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:05.879 You're not wrong that, so I want to say, don't panic. 128 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.680 The new safe Containment Zone, the big arch that is 129 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:14.040 over the sarcophagus and react of four was breached. However, 130 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.199 it's not as bad as a lot of sites make 131 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.360 out to be. As mentioned, the new safe Confinement Zone 132 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:23.480 houses the sarcophagus, a heaping the hemuth of concrete and 133 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.720 steel to shield the unit number four, which had unfortunately 134 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:30.160 the biggest meltdown of a single nuclear reactor ever recorded. 135 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.279 Many would leave you to believe this is an unforeseen disaster, 136 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.519 but it isn't. The NSSE has had protocols for a 137 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.959 breach ever since it was constructed and even before. It's 138 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:43.240 held under a negative pressure inside to avoid any particles 139 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:47.120 leaving in case of a breach, and to further the issue, 140 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:50.720 the inner containment so the NSC has two layers. Out 141 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:52.839 of one was breached in a one wasn't, so there 142 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.519 is no threat of anything leaving as of yet. And 143 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:59.439 the IEA, the Atomic the International Atomic Energy Agency, has 144 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:03.279 continued to monitor both inside and outside and there's no 145 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.040 spikes even minor in radiation levels beyond what is expected. 146 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.800 At Chernobyl and the scientists who work inside the new 147 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.439 Safe Containment Zone and the IE are supremely confident that 148 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:15.920 it won't fail. I feel we should be too, because 149 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:19.079 as members of the public, we tend to freak out 150 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:22.639 with nuclear energy a lot because of things like Chernobyl, 151 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:25.639 Three Mile Island, and Fukushuma. In this case, I feel 152 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.439 that the anxiety will do more than the attack did, 153 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:33.200 because it was most likely posturing. However, I would like 154 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:36.080 to point out what you were saying about turning Chernobyl 155 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:40.240 into a renewable energy site can be done and hopefully 156 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:43.360 will once the war is over, so Chernobyl might be 157 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:45.159 some hope for the future. 158 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:49.279 Well, I think that that statement is probably meant as 159 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:52.519 a bit of a reassurance to people who are concerned 160 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.879 over the attack on Chernobyl. Right for a leader to 161 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:58.399 come out and say, hey, look, we can actually develop 162 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:02.559 this land, like we are not concerned. The thing is, though, EJ, 163 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:07.840 what you basically just laid out also states or gives 164 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:12.600 the idea that there could be potential for a worse fallout. Right, 165 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:16.559 this attack didn't do anything, but a further attack, we 166 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:18.960 don't know what the fallout for that could be, Right, 167 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:22.840 And I think that Russia used the high explosive warhead 168 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:25.879 because it sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous 169 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:29.480 than let's say, a penetrator warhead, right, something that could 170 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.519 have gone through the second layer and really done some damage, 171 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:36.600 made a crater and really spread that nuclear material into 172 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:42.320 the atmosphere and deeper underground, affecting water sources, things like that. 173 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:44.879 So I think Russia probably knew what it was doing, 174 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:50.879 probably had ideas about the design of that facility, and said, hey, 175 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:55.519 what can we do to put anxiety put fear into 176 00:09:55.559 --> 00:10:00.759 the global population, particularly the Ukrainians themselves, with out actually 177 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:04.679 doing anything. I know, a high explosive warhead. I remember, 178 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:08.799 you know, being the former intelligence analyst that I am, 179 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:12.600 being a young intelligence analyst in school and coming up 180 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.360 with these concepts and then briefing them to my instructors 181 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.320 and saying, hey, they used a high explosive warhead, thinking 182 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.240 that that was so bad, and then my instructor saying, Okay, 183 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.799 what's that mean, And I'd have to go, I don't know. 184 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.200 I think that most of the world is probably in 185 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.720 an I don't know phase, and we're not really sure 186 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:32.039 how to take this. We just think that we're supposed 187 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:34.639 to take it really seriously, and I think that Russia 188 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:38.519 succeeded there, and so on that note, I want to 189 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:41.320 go back, you know, Tracy, I want to talk to 190 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.600 you about, let's putting aside all of this messaging, maybe 191 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:49.320 the psychological operations that the Russians are carrying out. What 192 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.240 do you think is happening here? I mean, according to 193 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:57.000 what you discussed leading up to tonight's show, I see 194 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.799 some thoughts that you have about it, and i'd like 195 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:01.159 to know you know where you're at. 196 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:06.759 So we've been in there's this concept that everybody knows, 197 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:09.600 not everybody, but you know, generally everybody knows about. 198 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:11.440 Called mutually assured destruction. 199 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:16.320 That's what keeps, you know, every the big countries from 200 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:20.519 launching their their nuclear warheads, which is the idea that 201 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.720 if one of us fires were all screwed, and that's 202 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.240 kind of what I see is with with Ukraine, with 203 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:33.399 the with Chernobyl, if they damage it significantly enough for 204 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.559 it to matter, it's going to affect everybody within thousands 205 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:38.600 of miles. 206 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:40.720 It's not just gonna affect them. 207 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.720 And so I find this to be a threat on 208 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:51.559 par with threatening with sending an empty ICBM to just impact. 209 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.600 You know, it's it's saying, hey, we didn't do anything 210 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:58.240 this time, but I'm just showing you how willing I 211 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.759 am to just screw everyone over to get my way. 212 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:04.759 If I if I had my way, I would have 213 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:06.559 called it a war crime. But I wasn't there for 214 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:07.519 the Geneva Convention. 215 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:13.519 So Rob, on that note, please feel free to lay 216 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:15.840 out any opinion you have thus far. But I would 217 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.679 like to know, you know, being that we are the nonprofits, 218 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:21.919 how does this relate to our mission here? Do you 219 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:26.000 think that there could be a religious factor or maybe 220 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.840 just a political one, or is it just a messaging factor? 221 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:30.960 How do you think this falls into what we do here? 222 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:34.360 Well, I think like in the notes that I took 223 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.000 for this, I talked about asaulting the earth, which is, 224 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.200 you know, invading another land and then destroying it so 225 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.080 thoroughly that if you don't annex it back then no 226 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.000 one else can live there. And we live in a 227 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:51.240 nuclear age, so it just seems like an extremely efficient 228 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:55.240 way to salt the earth and utterly destroy your enemies 229 00:12:55.320 --> 00:13:00.000 if you wish. However, it's kind of like a lame answer, 230 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.519 but yes, there's religion attached to this just because most 231 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.279 people are religious, and one of the primary conflicts that 232 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:12.879 we ever had with Russia was ideologically capitalists versus communism, 233 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.440 and thus fueled through the Christianity versus the Athesism, as 234 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.360 we had talked about previously. So it's not really possible 235 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:22.799 to talk about it without religion talking to informing that 236 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.799 discussion a little bit, But it's primarily political. We don't 237 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:30.919 like what is happening. Is bad. War bad, I think 238 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.720 is a pretty safe thing to say in general. So 239 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.600 I think most people would say that violence in any 240 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:42.639 circumstance can be justified given the circumstances that surround it. 241 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:49.039 This doesn't exclude wars. There are wars for just reasons. 242 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:54.080 This isn't necessarily one of them, or so clearly they'd 243 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:59.440 need to do something. So using attacks as purely demonstrative 244 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:01.320 ways of hey, look what we could do to you, 245 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.399 as Tracy said, is in some ways to me, it's worse. 246 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:08.559 It's horrifying. Like it's not it's not just we're trying 247 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.799 to achieve our goal of whatever the war is about. 248 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.279 It's so much more insidious because there's messaging, and that's 249 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:15.080 the thing that gets to me. 250 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:19.039 Yes, terrorism absolutely, So I want to I want to 251 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.360 harp or harp on both of those things. So first 252 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:23.039 of all, I want to give a tidbit of information 253 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.840 about the religious aspect of how this conflict started. So 254 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:32.480 the Russian Orthodox Church kind of has its I'm not 255 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:34.879 an expert on it, so the terminology is going to 256 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.320 be a little bit vague. But let's say is headquartered 257 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.279 in Moscow, which it is. I don't know if they 258 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:42.840 have exactly a pope or they have some kind of 259 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:47.120 higher person, right, but in the Russian Orthodox Church they 260 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.559 have got they are the top of the hierarchy for 261 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:55.360 their religion. Ukraine has its own Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but 262 00:14:55.720 --> 00:15:00.039 it used to prior to this war, next to the 263 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.360 church in Moscow through a hierarchy, right, So it was 264 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:04.960 Moscow and then. 265 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:06.799 It was Kiev. 266 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.159 The Ukrainian Orthodox Church leading up to the war decided 267 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:12.039 that they were no longer going to be aligned with 268 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.039 the Russian Orthodox Church. So there was a schism and 269 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.879 they separated. And that was a way of kind of 270 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:26.039 discrediting Russia, discrediting the culture, the the overall society by 271 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.879 pulling away and separating from it. And I think that 272 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.120 that was a way of a justification for Russia to 273 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.600 kind of come in and do what they did. And 274 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:37.440 so I not a lot of people know that. I 275 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.559 think that's interesting. I don't know how impactful it actually was, 276 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:43.519 but I think in this case, the Church did in 277 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.840 Ukraine all that they could, and basically it was to 278 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:50.000 pull away and then a war resulted. So you could 279 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.279 tell the story certainly that way, but rob to your 280 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.240 point and to the point that all I think all 281 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.639 of us have made, you know, showing what they could do, 282 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.639 what they'd be willing to do. You know, this also 283 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:05.159 leads to a desensitization, if you will, Like, if we 284 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:09.399 see them attack a nuclear facility and nothing happens, maybe 285 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.759 we'll think less of the next time they try to 286 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:15.960 do that or carry out something a little bit more 287 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.399 egregious or more dangerous, and we will be slower to act. 288 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:23.759 For example, the Zapharisia nuclear facility that has been a 289 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:27.759 hotbed for conflict throughout this war, except the Russians have 290 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.000 actually taken great steps to protect that facility and not 291 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.879 damage it. And the sources for that are the BBC 292 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:40.039 and the the the Center for Strategic and International Studies. 293 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.240 If anybody wants to go look up that information. So 294 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.519 on that note, and and EJ. With your love for 295 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.919 all things nuclear. You know, what do you think about 296 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.720 Russia's position moving forward? You know, is this just an 297 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:59.320 example of what they're willing to do? Uh? Can we expect? 298 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.480 Do you think more of the same or worse? 299 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.640 So? Not particularly earlier nor a year and there was 300 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.880 attacks on active nuclear power plants, and part of that 301 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.440 was Ukraine was very good at taking out mid level 302 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:20.119 leadership people like lieutenants and few officer ranks up from there. 303 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.519 And because of that, we were seeing a lot of 304 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.279 captured Russian orders. We were seeing a lot of things like, hey, 305 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.920 disrupt the power, but no specific plan of how to 306 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.400 do that, so people were attacking plants. The thing people 307 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.640 need to know about nuclear power plants is that they 308 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.000 are designed for the worst case scenario. They are designed 309 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:43.000 to contain explosions which we would struggle, we would struggle 310 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:47.119 to replicate with conventional explosives. So even conventional missiles like 311 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.079 health fires don't do anything to containment buildings. We've seen 312 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.759 that in the war while one was being bombarded. So 313 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.119 Russia going after Chernobyl. I feel as in part structuring 314 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.920 but also it may be them trying to say that, well, 315 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.599 if we can't get your active ones, we'll get one 316 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.599 that was that was disabled. However, they are also in 317 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.240 their eagerness to show off how destructive they can be. 318 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:15.799 They're also very much underestimating the staff at the nc 319 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:19.200 NSC because the staff since the start of the war 320 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.440 have prepared for something like this, and they have multiple 321 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:26.720 stages in p place for breaches so that nothing is leaked. 322 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:31.039 And having seen interviews with them, they are more than 323 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.240 willing to get dosed with radiation if it means protecting 324 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:38.039 the environment and the locals who live near the the. 325 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:42.039 Well, EJ froze, but Tracy, you can go ahead and 326 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:42.720 take over. 327 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:48.160 Well, I had a question for EJ. But or maybe 328 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.960 it was just a comment. But I don't I don't 329 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.160 know how good that's gonna do. If they just you know, 330 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.200 boom the entire site, who's there to help? 331 00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.599 If everybody is you. 332 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.559 Know ash like like that, that that that's my biggest concern. 333 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.720 Because they're they're a very wealthy the company country. They 334 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.319 can they can make the whole place a parking lot 335 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.279 if they really wanted to. 336 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:15.279 Yeah, and that would that would uh that would require 337 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.920 an escalation of force uh, an escalation of weapons weapons 338 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.039 that they haven't demonstrated a use of yet in this conflict, 339 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.200 and and that would change the game. I think that 340 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.920 attacking Chernobyl, at least again in the minds of people, 341 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.519 is probably an escalation for most of us, right or 342 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:35.559 most of the societies in the world. When they see 343 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.240 Chernobyl being attacked, I think they say, Wow, this is 344 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.200 an escalation, while while the Russians probably know this isn't 345 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:44.559 quite an escalation, but it is a successful message. But yeah, 346 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.480 I do think that they have the ability to definitely 347 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.480 inflict more damage. And that's what's scary. 348 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:49.680 You know. 349 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.759 I don't know if this Chernobyl attack UH is a 350 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.720 warning or if it's some kind of other play. I 351 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:00.960 don't want to find out though. On that note, Rob, 352 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:03.599 I'm gonna go ahead and and leave it to you 353 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:05.720 to take us away before we wrap up. 354 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.079 No, that's that's definitely just kind of I'm at because, 355 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.279 like we've talked about how it's posturing, how it's clearly 356 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:13.720 a message, and that's it's that's the part where I 357 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.799 just struggle for words, because it's they clearly did not 358 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.720 mean to do more damage. So what did they mean? Yeah, 359 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:25.640 it's just there's it's just questions. I genuinely wonder. I'm 360 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.640 curious about what Ukraine and their people are being told 361 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.720 and how they're handling it themselves, because they clearly are 362 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.359 far closer to it than we are. It's just it 363 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:40.079 feels like it's left us with questions, which is the point. 364 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:41.920 I guess sure here I am questioning. 365 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.920 Yeah, absolutely, you know EJ. While you were gone, Tracy 366 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.400 had maybe a comment or a question for you, and Tracy, 367 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.279 if you want real Wick to just kind of relay 368 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:51.880 that to him. 369 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.079 Yeah, what what? What good are these measures? 370 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:55.240 Uh? 371 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.519 If everybody there gets suddenly turned. 372 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:00.960 To ash, So if it would take a hell of 373 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.480 a strike to do that, we. 374 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:08.079 Talked about the need for a significant escalation of force 375 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.960 in order to do that. So on that. 376 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:17.079 If somehow, let's say, a series of unfortunate events happened, 377 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:20.599 and something happened in which all the workers inside the 378 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:25.440 NSC were to perish in an attack, there is emergency 379 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.640 fire crews who are trained to deal with breaches. In fact, 380 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.720 they responded to the initial breach. They are stationed on 381 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.359 site and they have not only learned from what we 382 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.079 do today with nuclear power plants, but they also learned 383 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.839 from the initial nineteen eighty six tragedy, in which multiple 384 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:44.279 fire crews, due to a lack of training and proper equipment, 385 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:46.240 were a bit ineffective. 386 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.319 I just I guess my only concern is that I 387 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.440 feel and maybe maybe I'm just coming from a position 388 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.480 of emotion, which is entirely possible, but I just think 389 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.359 that you're we're not dealing with a chimpanzee with an 390 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.279 assault rifle. We're dealing with a Planet of the Apes 391 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:06.200 chimpanzee with an assault rifle, like with a. 392 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.440 Nuclear weapon, with nuclear weapons. 393 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.240 Yeah, like like we're you saw how mean those chimpanzees 394 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.279 and Planet of the Apes were, Like, come on. 395 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.400 We gotta we got to head this off. These people 396 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.279 are dangerous and I'm not ready to deal with it. 397 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.720 I should say there should absolutely be more defenses around 398 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.920 cher Nobyl MPP. I just do also want to re 399 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.799 ensure people that it would take a lot of things 400 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.599 going wrong at the same time for anything to pose 401 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.559