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Speaker 4: From the hi see.
Speaker 5: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly, flapping
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Speaker 5: cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away man,
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Speaker 1: See.
Speaker 4: You don't need no man, don't they luck you story?
Speaker 6: And you got backed like that was win Man got
Speaker 6: black and dag on the panel. Man matter man, Thomas,
Speaker 6: Welcome back to the Jay Burn Show.
Speaker 4: How you doing man, I'm doing very well. Thanks for
Speaker 4: hosting me.
Speaker 7: Sorry, Burden Cat just made an unscheduled appearance.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 7: Anyway, so we are getting back to our discussion of
Speaker 7: Chicago Ripper Crew.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 7: The feedback on the last one was very good. People
Speaker 7: were very interested. Interestingly enough, we had a couple of
Speaker 7: people who had personal connections to the case and the
Speaker 7: comments I think I sent them to you on substack,
Speaker 7: which was interesting. So you know, even though it's slightly
Speaker 7: more obscure, people are interested in this topic. And so
Speaker 7: I won't hold you anymore, Thomas. Where do you want
Speaker 7: to get back into it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I and yeah, the feedback's been great. And to
Speaker 4: be to be clear, these guys, we were middle class
Speaker 4: white ethnics, I mean, they were working people. But you know,
Speaker 4: it doesn't surprise me that there was you know, Northwest
Speaker 4: side guys who came across these peoples. And one of
Speaker 4: the reasons why it's relevant, it's not just because of
Speaker 4: the I mean, it's a horrible case. But as I'll
Speaker 4: get into, the investigators as well as the State's Attorney's
Speaker 4: office as well as the SBI was convinced that there
Speaker 4: were far more victims and there was grave concern that
Speaker 4: this was a Son of Sam type situation. And the
Speaker 4: Ripper Crew is connected to a network occult network. Okay,
Speaker 4: So again that's it's important to push back against the
Speaker 4: what's become the prevailing narrative. And also there was there
Speaker 4: was an interesting precedent set by this case and these
Speaker 4: cases the trials. You know, Andy good Coriels as the
Speaker 4: last man executed in Illinois, which is significant. They there
Speaker 4: was murders in both Cook and DuPage County, and DuPage
Speaker 4: County is a solidly read county. They're super Republican, super
Speaker 4: pro Trump, and back then they were the bane of
Speaker 4: the of the of the Chicago machine down in Springfield.
Speaker 4: So that's interesting too because the death sentences that came
Speaker 4: down of this case came down from DuPage. Okay, I'm
Speaker 4: not I'm not wearing gloves to be like weird or something.
Speaker 4: My handsle was swollen and it looks gross. I don't
Speaker 4: be able think I'm trying to be spooky. Something, but uh,
Speaker 4: because it may, you know. And as we got into
Speaker 4: it before, I think we ended where Tommy could Coreelis
Speaker 4: was implicated and then and then confessed, and one of
Speaker 4: the lead investigators, name of John sam he couldn't believe
Speaker 4: what he was hearing. He attested the fact, you know,
Speaker 4: in his words quote, could this stuff really happen? I
Speaker 4: didn't even know what to say to this guy. And
Speaker 4: finally he put to Tommy, why, why why did you
Speaker 4: do these things? And Tommy reiterated, almost for me as
Speaker 4: his brother said, he said, you don't understand. Robin get
Speaker 4: just makes you do things. And the detective said, what
Speaker 4: what do you mean it makes you do things? What
Speaker 4: does he do? Does he threatened to does he threaten
Speaker 4: to fuck you up? Does he threaten to kill you?
Speaker 4: And Tommy he shook his head and said no, he said,
Speaker 4: you don't. He said, he just looks into your eyes
Speaker 4: and he tells you to do something, and you just
Speaker 4: have to do it. Tommy was one hundred percent of
Speaker 4: advanced that Gagt had some sort of demonic power over him,
Speaker 4: you know, and however ridiculous anybody thinks that is, or
Speaker 4: you know, you can chalk it up to coreol is
Speaker 4: being a simpleton. But as we'll get into this is
Speaker 4: this pattern emerges again and again with get convincing or
Speaker 4: persuading people to do things that they would not ordinarily do,
Speaker 4: and not just simpletons like Spritzer and arguably Tommy Coo
Speaker 4: coriel Is, but you know, very very very normal middle
Speaker 4: class people as well, who aren't engaged in deviant behavior
Speaker 4: street shit. In any way, Tommy substantiated what his brother
Speaker 4: attested to, and to be clear, Andy's testimony or i
Speaker 4: mean Andy's confessions, what he relating Costody became fundamentally important
Speaker 4: to the cases in chief that substantiated the body of
Speaker 4: the indictments because Eddie Spritzer was a moron, and he
Speaker 4: was he was changing his narrative every day, and there
Speaker 4: was no rhyme or reason to it. And he states attorney,
Speaker 4: the assistant state's attorney who got the case, a guy
Speaker 4: named Buke. Buke asked what about the severed body parts,
Speaker 4: the severed breasts and vist erun things, And apparently this
Speaker 4: is the only line of question that really upset Tommy
Speaker 4: and this and the state. As Toney said, look, you've
Speaker 4: already you're already getting charged with murder. You might as
Speaker 4: well give us the details and not played games. And
Speaker 4: he acknowledged and validated that these satanic ceremonies took place
Speaker 4: in the egg, you know, just as his brother had.
Speaker 4: And Tommy actually assigned dates to some of these occurrences.
Speaker 4: He said he participated directly in nine or ten of
Speaker 4: them between May nineteen eighty one and May nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 4: And he also confessed the murder of Lorraine Bowski and
Speaker 4: Linda Sutton. And both of these were important because Barowski,
Speaker 4: he was that poor woman who was grabbing broad daylight
Speaker 4: and gang raped and murdered and mutilated at the hotel
Speaker 4: and then dumped in the cemetery. And we were so
Speaker 4: far out and horrible what Andy attested to do. It
Speaker 4: would have been difficult to substantiate that if there wasn't
Speaker 4: a corroborating statement and Lorraine's remains where she was a
Speaker 4: skeleton by the time they found her, so it's not
Speaker 4: as if they could piece together from piece together forensically
Speaker 4: whether this confession could be substantiated. I think it's a
Speaker 4: Linda Sutton. She was the first victim found behind the
Speaker 4: moonlit motel in Villa Park, so that obviously tied the
Speaker 4: case together and created a linear investigative chain that the
Speaker 4: trier of fact could follow. And that's that's important. This
Speaker 4: bestially in a case that's so massive and severe. Now
Speaker 4: this gets really strange, But I was just mentioning a
Speaker 4: minute ago about get and as apparent power to manipulate people. Well,
Speaker 4: when Ghek was arrested, the Chicago cop named Ron Sebliski.
Speaker 4: I assume this is an alias that's used by the
Speaker 4: people who related this anecdote because it was the source
Speaker 4: that I'm referring to. We're all penned by state actors. Okay,
Speaker 4: But Ron Sibliski was a Chicago PD officer and on
Speaker 4: May sixth, nineteen eighty two, he responded to a call
Speaker 4: of a man with a gun. There's this restaurant, this
Speaker 4: kind of Chicago's got a lot of twenty four diners
Speaker 4: to this day. There's this old restaurant as long as
Speaker 4: since clothes called the Grand Austin Grill. It was this
Speaker 4: all night diner. Okay, So sublisky, he's a beat cop
Speaker 4: in Chicago with twenty years on the job. He pulls
Speaker 4: up in front of the restaurant, answer the call, and
Speaker 4: he finds out that what happened was there was this
Speaker 4: young lady and some drunks staggered in there and started
Speaker 4: hassling her and then started fish roughing her up. And
Speaker 4: this other patron pulled out a gun, drew a beat
Speaker 4: on this man and said leave her alone, and then
Speaker 4: forced the guy out of the restaurant and then he
Speaker 4: halted his weapon and sat back down. Well, that man
Speaker 4: was Robin Get, Okay. So Sublisky's this was before long
Speaker 4: before there was any kind of CCW in Chicago. Okay.
Speaker 4: So Sublisky and his partner was like, hey, this guy
Speaker 4: did a good deed, but hey, sorry, you know you're
Speaker 4: gonna catch charges for this. And Get's like, nah, I understand.
Speaker 4: So Get does Oblisky and these costs became buddies, okay,
Speaker 4: and they started they developed this rapport and his Siblisky's
Speaker 4: booking Get on the firearms charge. He's mentioning about how
Speaker 4: he's got this house that he's, you know, wanted to
Speaker 4: invest in as a fixer. Uppers become this money pitch
Speaker 4: and Gets like, oh, hey, you'm a master carpenter an electrician,
Speaker 4: you know, why don't let me take a look at it.
Speaker 4: So sure enough, Get Start shows up with his crew
Speaker 4: Eddie Spritzer and some other guys, and he does this
Speaker 4: like incredible job on this CoP's house. And Soblisky said,
Speaker 4: this guy was the most skilled carpenter I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: And Sublisky's kids started like hanging out with Ghek's kids
Speaker 4: and playing together. You know, Get's kids would sleep over
Speaker 4: at his house. Gets was proactively living at this dude's house,
Speaker 4: this cop for like a year, and then you know,
Speaker 4: this cop realized something was off. You know, he didn't
Speaker 4: know what, but he said, why why am I letting
Speaker 4: this guy basically live in my house? You know? Why
Speaker 4: am I like buying his kids groceries? You know, like,
Speaker 4: why why why am I letting his kids stay at
Speaker 4: my house half the week? So so Blisky apparently gradually
Speaker 4: put an end to it, you know, and and the
Speaker 4: work that Deek was doing in the house and was
Speaker 4: coming to it in anyway. But after Gek was arrested
Speaker 4: for multiple homicide and kidnapping and mulicious wounding and all
Speaker 4: this horrible stuff, Soblisky shows up at Area five and
Speaker 4: goes nuts and he's like, he's innocent. This man's a
Speaker 4: friend of mine. How dare you accuse him of these
Speaker 4: horrible crimes? And this always came to blows between him
Speaker 4: and these detectives who are as superiors. Okay, Like that's
Speaker 4: that's crazy, you know, Like what this dude was putting
Speaker 4: his career in jeopardy to go to bat for Robin Ghekt,
Speaker 4: Like that's Gaysey. Like okay, because Gaysey not only would
Speaker 4: gaze schmooze the police and stuff, but Gaysey was a
Speaker 4: really skilled contractor and he'd do work for people and
Speaker 4: they'd be really happy and you know, but that doesn't
Speaker 4: explain the entire scenario. You know, Gek had some sort
Speaker 4: of ability to manipulate people profoundly, and not in terms
Speaker 4: of traditional charisma. I mean, Ghek wasn't he wasn't particularly
Speaker 4: handsome or you know, alpha or anything. But there was
Speaker 4: there's something very strange going on here, you know, and
Speaker 4: especially you know, cops are very clannish. Number one, they
Speaker 4: basically went hear around with other police. That's what jumped
Speaker 4: out of me. And Okay, I get it that these
Speaker 4: police on the scene at a Grand and at the
Speaker 4: Grand Avenue diner, they look at Ghek. It's kind of
Speaker 4: a hero in the situation. But it's like, I can't
Speaker 4: imagine it's a normal protocol that started hanging out socially
Speaker 4: with people you collor that that seems highly improper, regardless
Speaker 4: of the underlying circumstances. But and that that gave every
Speaker 4: that gave the detectives pause, you know, And I'll I'll
Speaker 4: expand on that in a bit. But the uh one
Speaker 4: a second, you know, and it's uh apparently two. In
Speaker 4: addition to this mistress of Gets who boughted him out
Speaker 4: when he was first arrested, get To introduced Seblisky to
Speaker 4: this bizarre kind of butch lesbian who is also in
Speaker 4: the building trades, and she apparently gave get To money
Speaker 4: and would take him around to uh her gay friends
Speaker 4: to show him off, like like he was her boy
Speaker 4: toy or something. And get told brag to Oblisky that
Speaker 4: he was pimping women and that this lesbian who we
Speaker 4: called Miss Ross, that Miss Ross. He's like, you know,
Speaker 4: even if things go bad with my wife, you know,
Speaker 4: miss Ross is loaded, and she'll she'll she'll give me
Speaker 4: buying me anything I need. I don't even need the baller.
Speaker 4: I mean, like this is insane and this guy's telling
Speaker 4: this too is a cop. He's basically living in his
Speaker 4: house and uh, you know this this doesn't I mean,
Speaker 4: I guess eventually this cops spidy senses got triggered, but
Speaker 4: that the whole thing seems incredibly perverse and abnormal.
Speaker 5: It uh.
Speaker 4: The Now this is interesting too because by this point
Speaker 4: November eighty two, all the Ripper crewre in custody. But
Speaker 4: in November sixteenth, another young woman's body was found of
Speaker 4: the under the Fullerton Amity Bridge and exactly the same
Speaker 4: location where Sondra Delaware had been murdered. See what, like
Speaker 4: Sandra Dollar, wasn't done there. That's the victim that Andy
Speaker 4: kok Corialis claimed that she was murdered there, and the
Speaker 4: the the physical evidence suggested that because there was liquid
Speaker 4: blood that had pooled, she'd been found probably not even
Speaker 4: an hour after she'd been murdered, but this would have
Speaker 4: been had been stabbed all over her body. They were
Speaker 4: able to ideal because there was a bond slip in
Speaker 4: her jacket pocket. She'd just been bonded out of Cook
Speaker 4: County for prostitution, and she was a hooker whose official
Speaker 4: residence with North Lincoln Avenue, and that was one of
Speaker 4: the Ripper Crew's hunting grounds. So the police became convinced
Speaker 4: that there was more. There were more the rippers out there,
Speaker 4: you know, and obviously get doesn't saying anything. The Corialis
Speaker 4: brothers and even even simple to nighty sprites are they're
Speaker 4: realizing they're looking at the death penalty, you know. And
Speaker 4: by this time there they got representation, you know, and
Speaker 4: their public defenders are telling him stop stop talking. Your
Speaker 4: life is on the line. So this never was truly resolved.
Speaker 2: But the.
Speaker 4: Chicago PD, they put out a nationwide bulletin about the
Speaker 4: Ripper Crew and asking for communication by telex as to
Speaker 4: whether or not any homicides anywhere in the United States
Speaker 4: matching this mo and this victim profile where you know,
Speaker 4: there was an unstuff at large relating to those incidents,
Speaker 4: you know. So they they were absolutely convinced that this
Speaker 4: was not an isolated cell of occult motivated murderers. November twentieth,
Speaker 4: Eddie Sprecher was formally indicted along with Andy Cook coriel
Speaker 4: As for the murder of Schuey Mack. Eddie Spreutzer was
Speaker 4: also indicted for attempted murder, aggravated battery, and armed a
Speaker 4: violence for the only two known male victims the Ripper Crew.
Speaker 4: There were those two gang bangers who got blasted around Wrigleyville,
Speaker 4: Raphael Toronto and Albert Wizzario. One of the guys died.
Speaker 4: One of the guys lived with catastrophic brain injury, you know,
Speaker 4: And that was I believe the speculation, you know, Get
Speaker 4: was a was a firearms of ficionados who was always strapped.
Speaker 4: I believe he blasted those guys thinking that the police
Speaker 4: would chalk it up to street ship, which they did
Speaker 4: because both these guys you know, wrote as as Latin kings,
Speaker 4: and I think he was testing sprister to see if
Speaker 4: he you know, see what he'd do if he had
Speaker 4: it in him the you know, be a murder rampy.
Speaker 4: But in any event, Get himself wasn't convicted of murder
Speaker 4: because they really all they had to put him at
Speaker 4: the scene of these murders was odd circumstantial evidence. The
Speaker 4: the main case in chief, the case even against him
Speaker 4: was mainly substantiated by his victim who survived, okay, And
Speaker 4: the problem is the rest of the Ripper crew who
Speaker 4: implicated him. You know, you have a right to confront
Speaker 4: your accuser if they refuse to testify, you know that
Speaker 4: evidence can't be introduced. You know. So what they did
Speaker 4: have Get on the hook for was attempted murder, already kidnapping,
Speaker 4: deviate sexual assault and rape for what he did do
Speaker 4: what he did to that victim who survived Beverly, Washington.
Speaker 4: The crux against defense was that brutal as this attack
Speaker 4: may have been, it didn't rise to the level of
Speaker 4: intendant required to substancy to conviction for attempted murder. And
Speaker 4: before the trial Gets lawyers demanded a sanity hearing, which
Speaker 4: is you're right. And this was before it was impossible
Speaker 4: to prevail on an insanity defense, which for all practical
Speaker 4: purposes postinkly it is. So this wasn't just a fool's
Speaker 4: errand Get was examined by the director of Cook County
Speaker 4: Psychiatric Institute and Uh in a letter to the court,
Speaker 4: doctor Reefman, who was the man in question. It was
Speaker 4: very brief, he he said to the judge presenting judges
Speaker 4: Francis Mahone. He said to Judge Mahone, the defendant understands
Speaker 4: the nature of the charges against him, and it was
Speaker 4: thus legally seen at the time of the offense that's
Speaker 4: really all that that that really is all insanity the
Speaker 4: jury is concerned with categorically, you know, can the defendant
Speaker 4: understand the nature of the charges against him? And could
Speaker 4: he I mean, and could he understand the wrongfulness of
Speaker 4: it is of his conduct? I mean, the understanding the
Speaker 4: nature of the charges of the predict did for competence
Speaker 4: see to stand trial? You know, being able to formulate
Speaker 4: intent based upon an understanding of moral wrongfulness obviously cuts
Speaker 4: of something who liability. But it was clear, Uh, I
Speaker 4: mean that that that's you gotta if if it even
Speaker 4: though Gek goes on the hook for murder, it Uh,
Speaker 4: obviously in a case that's severe, you're gonna you're gonna
Speaker 4: file the emotion you can gets. Trial was a was
Speaker 4: a fiasco due to no fault of the judge or
Speaker 4: the state's attorneys. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
Speaker 4: When a deepts lawyers noticed that one of the jurors
Speaker 4: she was carrying a newspaper with the headline woman relates
Speaker 4: quote ripper attack and the article went on to suggest
Speaker 4: that Gek absolutely was the leader of the Ripper crew.
Speaker 4: And then it had this whole squib about Get's miserable
Speaker 4: childhood and his his alleged sexual dv and see you know,
Speaker 4: and Get's lawyers obviously immediately a maned a mistrial. Mahone
Speaker 4: has specifically instructed the jurors to avoid all news media, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, television or print. You know. The fact that
Speaker 4: this woman had this was carrying this paper little under
Speaker 4: her arm. I mean, I presume she was passing this
Speaker 4: around in the jury room. You know what of.
Speaker 7: This? This?
Speaker 4: This is this was obvious grounds for appeal. So Mahone
Speaker 4: declares a mistrial. Geck gets uh shuttle it back to
Speaker 4: Cook County Jail. Get Uh. His lawyers moved for a
Speaker 4: change of venue, and uh, mahone wouldn't hear of it.
Speaker 4: A new jury was impaneled, you know, and and Get's
Speaker 4: attorneys basically doubled down on the fact that in the
Speaker 4: case of Beverly, Washington, it was dark you know, the
Speaker 4: victim byro own admission and force fed drugs. You know,
Speaker 4: she had a history of past recreational drug use. How
Speaker 4: could she positively id get? You know? And furthermore, Uh,
Speaker 4: there the injury sustained, even if for the sake of argument, counterfactually,
Speaker 4: Get was was the man who attacked her. They they
Speaker 4: didn't rise the level of attempted murder. Get's wife testified
Speaker 4: her husband was home all night at the time of
Speaker 4: the attack, which was this woman was not remotely credible,
Speaker 4: and she came off as bizarre. She wore all black
Speaker 4: and had her hair dyed black and looked like some
Speaker 4: TM version of Elvira or something. If he look at
Speaker 4: photographs of her, he gets, mother, Uh seemed just kind
Speaker 4: of like a sad old lady. And you know she
Speaker 4: her testimony constituted character evedence and all but name. You know,
Speaker 4: she she just came off as kind of pathetic and saying,
Speaker 4: you know, my You know, Robin is a good boy,
Speaker 4: and he's so weak and easily frightened. He you know,
Speaker 4: his brother has always had to do his fighting for him.
Speaker 4: He was scared of his own shadow.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: So this uh get uh And finally.
Speaker 8: The uh.
Speaker 4: What gets lawyers reserved for closing argument was to hang
Speaker 4: it Eyety sprites her. They did when they couldn't intimate
Speaker 4: that Eddie sprites her, who by sprites her, and the
Speaker 4: police is and the States are in his own acknowledgment
Speaker 4: borrowed the Robin gets a work van on the regular.
Speaker 4: It was he committed these attacks, you know it, Uh,
Speaker 4: it was he who attacked. Uh you know the these
Speaker 4: this woman who survived, you know and uh in the dark.
Speaker 8: Uh you know.
Speaker 4: She couldn't tell one slightly built white man from the other.
Speaker 4: But I mean that didn't that the jury came back
Speaker 4: in two hours. I mean as none of these, none
Speaker 4: of these arguments raised anything approaching reasonable doubt. But with
Speaker 4: what these with what defense counts led to work with,
Speaker 4: I think it was a perfectly capable defense. He was
Speaker 4: convicted of all accounts. Mahone sentenced Get to sixty years
Speaker 4: for rape and deviates, sexual assault, and armed violence, and
Speaker 4: then he had an additional sixty years for attempted murder.
Speaker 4: And you know, the this woman was maimed horribly and
Speaker 4: dumped in and Ali and she would have she would
Speaker 4: have bled out within minutes if she hadn't been discovered
Speaker 4: almost immediately by a sanitation worker. So I mean that,
Speaker 4: you know, get Get was done and it was obvious.
Speaker 4: Uh Mahone was Judge Mahone made it clear and the
Speaker 4: statements he made it sentencing that he you know, he
Speaker 4: believed Ghek was a multiple murderer. You know, he made
Speaker 4: no bones about clarifying that sprites her on the Chicago murders.
Speaker 4: Pled guilty to four homicides and attempt and one attempted murder.
Speaker 4: He was sentenced to life plus one hundred and twenty
Speaker 4: years for the rape and murder of Rosebeck Davis, who
Speaker 4: was the victim who was grabbed off a rushed street.
Speaker 4: He caught thirty years to the rape and murder of
Speaker 4: Sadra Delaware, life plus one hundred and eighty years for
Speaker 4: the kidnapping and murder of Shoey Mack, thirty years the
Speaker 4: attempted murder of Albert Rosario, life sentence for the murder
Speaker 4: of Raphael Toronto. But he still had to fight charges
Speaker 4: in Gepage County for the murder of Linda Sutton. He
Speaker 4: went on Treal there in nineteen eighty six and he
Speaker 4: was sent to death. And really his lawyer said nothing.
Speaker 4: Defense council simply tried to portray him as incompetent, you know,
Speaker 4: and incapable of rendering independent decisions or at with any
Speaker 4: independent agency. You know, by this point too, it was
Speaker 4: a done deal. I mean, this was this was several
Speaker 4: years after the after the murders and uh the facts
Speaker 4: and circumstances, It's circulated far and wide. People were disgusted,
Speaker 4: people were outraged that they were horrified. There's echoes of gacy,
Speaker 4: but Someonay's even worse because this was for defendants. The
Speaker 4: state also emphasized in the page the unfaimable depravity of
Speaker 4: these events, and the states attorneys suggested in closing argument, Look,
Speaker 4: this is becoming an epidemic of people committing these kinds
Speaker 4: of crimes based upon bizarre cultic motivations and essentially the
Speaker 4: said of the jury. Not only does the blood of
Speaker 4: these victims, possibly dozens of them, cry out for vengeance,
Speaker 4: but we've got to send a message that the men
Speaker 4: who do these kinds of things are in the service
Speaker 4: of strange gods, are going to go to the death chamber,
Speaker 4: you know. And Spriteser remain on death row until two
Speaker 4: thousand and three, when his sentence was commuted along with
Speaker 4: every other condemned. They may nill annoy by George H.
Speaker 4: Ryan knowing to the Birds scandal and a lot of
Speaker 4: other shit. Birds was this homicide detective with a lot
Speaker 4: of clout who uh head over decades tortured suspects into confession.
Speaker 4: And this was a disaster because obviously that compromised verdicts
Speaker 4: across the board, and it led to a justice not
Speaker 4: being realized in the case of many condemned who absolutely
Speaker 4: were guilty as a matter of fact, as a matter
Speaker 4: of law. Let's sprite, sir. On February fifth, nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 4: Andy Could Corialis went to trial for the murder of
Speaker 4: Rosebeck Davis, Andy Could Coriolis attorney. He claimed that the
Speaker 4: confession was coerced, so we don't even need the rebut
Speaker 4: the material facts being alleged because Driscoll essentially alleged that
Speaker 4: when Ghek Stonewall the police and sprites are proved to
Speaker 4: be a totally unreliable head case, the police simply swept
Speaker 4: up Andy Courialis and and worked him over until he
Speaker 4: gave them something, you know, and that in reality, he
Speaker 4: played no part at all in the crime. He was
Speaker 4: just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and
Speaker 4: he happened to be acquainted with Robin Ghekt. And when
Speaker 4: you consider the I mean Courialis's confession was catastrophic for
Speaker 4: his own defense because not only not only did he
Speaker 4: cop to eighteen murders. He said there was probably a
Speaker 4: lot more. He gave a timeline, he substantiated dates, discrete acts,
Speaker 4: locations where the victims were seized, where they were dumped.
Speaker 4: I mean he was he was finished. He and he
Speaker 4: caught a life sentence to murder Rose big Davis. But
Speaker 4: two years later DuPage County got him for the murder
Speaker 4: of Lorraine Barowski. And it was the same state's attorney,
Speaker 4: Brian Talander, who prosecuted Spritzer and co core Als, was
Speaker 4: convicted a murder and he was sentenced to death and
Speaker 4: Andy Andy Kakrielis was executed March seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 4: He was the last man executed in the state of Illinois.
Speaker 4: And that was that was very deliberate, and the jury
Speaker 4: was traumatized. During the penalty phase, Tolander spared no details
Speaker 4: on what had happened, what had happened to these women,
Speaker 4: and specifically the details of Lorraine Barowski's murder, which had
Speaker 4: come from the lip, the details of which had got
Speaker 4: him the lips of any could Coriolis. And I don't
Speaker 4: get me wrong, I was entirely proper, you know, but
Speaker 4: it's it was abjectly horrifying. And uh, I think du
Speaker 4: Page would have I think he would have gone to
Speaker 4: the death chamber anyway. But the fact that that was
Speaker 4: the charge he was having to fight, you know, he
Speaker 4: he was done. He was a dead man walking. As
Speaker 4: I stated, I think last episode Andy could Coriolis, his
Speaker 4: spiritual advisor, maintained that he'd returned to his Orthodox faith.
Speaker 4: He was repent. Andy's last words were, quote to the
Speaker 4: Barowski family, I'm truly sorry for your loss. I mean
Speaker 4: that sincerely, and then he said repent ye for the
Speaker 4: Kingdom of Heaven is in hand. And uh, you know
Speaker 4: he was. He was executed by lethal injection. And there
Speaker 4: was a lasting trauma to this case. I don't I
Speaker 4: know that's that's that's become a stupid word. And I'm
Speaker 4: sure especially younger people are tidy hearing it. Everything's supposally
Speaker 4: a trauma. But one of the detectives Bureau guys I
Speaker 4: years later, sometime in the nineties, he uh, this was
Speaker 4: his testimony and hind said on the case, he said, quote,
Speaker 4: no other case ever disturbed me like this one.
Speaker 1: Did.
Speaker 4: These guys killed a lot more women than the ones
Speaker 4: we got them for. I know that we all know it.
Speaker 4: We all knew it back then. There are bodies out
Speaker 4: there somewhere, young women who deserve the rest in peace
Speaker 4: in their own graves, and we should have been able
Speaker 4: to find them, should have been able to put them
Speaker 4: to rest. I think about the parents all the time
Speaker 4: who can't sleep at night, worrying and wondering what happened
Speaker 4: to their daughters. They deserve to know, and now they
Speaker 4: never will. I quit homicide because of this case, you know,
Speaker 4: And after much as this was locally sort of a
Speaker 4: of an obsession, people wanted to forget it after it
Speaker 4: was done because it was so horrible. But the police
Speaker 4: always maintained and I'm the last person who finds the
Speaker 4: police intrinsically credible. But Chicago PD always maintained that there
Speaker 4: was probably more of these guys affiliated with the Ripper
Speaker 4: Crew itself. And you know, Robiney, get him just one day,
Speaker 4: think up these bizarre practices. He was probably initiated into this.
Speaker 4: He probably like the like like David Burke Away, it's
Speaker 4: got drawn into some sort of satanic subculture and like
Speaker 4: gaycy because he got away with these things again and again,
Speaker 4: and because he was a practicing occultist. He he he
Speaker 4: probably believed he wasn't going to be knighted. He probably
Speaker 4: thought I have some kind of supernatural power. Look, I
Speaker 4: can't even manipulate this cop. I'm practically living in his house.
Speaker 4: I've got I've got pimping out these women who are
Speaker 4: bailing me out of prison. I got this. I got
Speaker 4: this butcher lesbian who's who's just paying my bills as
Speaker 4: long as I, you know, take along to her, you know,
Speaker 4: or or or parties or whatever, you know.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 4: Incidentally, I was, uh, I was. I was watching some
Speaker 4: of the what's called the Clearwater testimony.
Speaker 8: That was.
Speaker 4: L Ron Hubbard's son who defected from the Church of
Speaker 4: Scientology early on, but who had been instrumental in building it.
Speaker 4: He said, Look, he's like first and foremost, he's like
Speaker 4: my father wasn't occultist. He was fastly that was the
Speaker 4: Crowley you know, he is affiliation with Robert Parsons and
Speaker 4: Errol Flynn had to do as occult fascinations. And he's like, no,
Speaker 4: Scientology wasn't a religion. That was his way of avoiding
Speaker 4: heat from the irs and and the AMA, as well
Speaker 4: as a way to sell the suckers a package that
Speaker 4: would separate them their money. But he's like such that.
Speaker 4: My father's religious. He was very much an occult believer,
Speaker 4: and he thought that, you know, he he thought he
Speaker 4: would never face consequences, and that you know, he had
Speaker 4: absolute confidence in the con because he he was more
Speaker 4: than just a con man. He believed he had some
Speaker 4: sort of Satanic power over people. You know. And the
Speaker 4: degree to which of you believe in something with absolute confidence,
Speaker 4: you can believe other you can convince others of those things.
Speaker 4: That that's really what the nature is of a perfect liar,
Speaker 4: because even people who are just sociopathic and know they're lying,
Speaker 4: they've always got tells or they always slip up, or
Speaker 4: it's always somehow affected if you believe in what you
Speaker 4: are saying. There's something about human beings. They're they're hardwired.
Speaker 4: We're in the absence of triggers suggesting dishonesty. They they
Speaker 4: they take on the beliefs uh in the in the
Speaker 4: veracity of what's being told to them by declarance I believe,
Speaker 4: and that that becomes a positive feedback mechanism. And if
Speaker 4: you're that that then in turn reinforces the delusion. But
Speaker 4: It's also something at emphasize too, because I'm sure to
Speaker 4: people this idea of this, that this weird little guy,
Speaker 4: this weird, shitty little guy with an alternate addic doing
Speaker 4: horrible things to body parts. It's like, well, who would
Speaker 4: be taken in by that? What was the spectacle of
Speaker 4: that beyond the fact that it's revolting. It's like, look before,
Speaker 4: when the only stimulus outside of real space was television
Speaker 4: or the movies, people's responses were totally different, whether you're
Speaker 4: talking about how they respond to violence or sex or
Speaker 4: anything else. Like even people used to think, even even
Speaker 4: in my lifetime, like when I was a kid, people
Speaker 4: love stuff like Penthouse Magazine was unbelievably racy when really
Speaker 4: was just naked girls, you know, I mean, like think
Speaker 4: about that, and uh, they'd look at something like they
Speaker 4: look at a Mando movie, you know, like shocking age
Speaker 4: or Faces of Death, which even the real footage they're
Speaker 4: in was pretty tame stuff. But that was considered to be,
Speaker 4: you know, really really outside the scope of what was
Speaker 4: decent or humans should be seeing, you know, for the
Speaker 4: purpose of titillation or whatever. So a lot of what
Speaker 4: people devised in terms of their own fantasies or in
Speaker 4: terms of their own stimulus, emerged from within their own
Speaker 4: imaginings and was informed by what other people suggested that
Speaker 4: you know, they fantasized about or were interested in voyeuristically
Speaker 4: or in terms of stimulus and things. So if you
Speaker 4: had the ability to manipulate others anyway, you didn't really
Speaker 4: have to move mountains to impress upon them with an
Speaker 4: immersive experience, especially if there was real violence and depravity
Speaker 4: behind it, if you follow what I mean. So that's
Speaker 4: some Yeah, I mean, you've always got to keep zeitgeist
Speaker 4: in mind, and you've always got to keep the epoch
Speaker 4: in which events occur in mind when you're addressing the
Speaker 4: impact on an observer or a participant or a an
Speaker 4: actor to the proceedings under discussion or scrutiny. But that's
Speaker 4: that's particularly significant in the era we're talking about what
Speaker 4: the subject matter we're taught excuse me, we're talking about
Speaker 4: if you follow my line of thought.
Speaker 7: No, certainly, and I mean the power of sex and
Speaker 7: violence to control people is We've understood this for a
Speaker 7: long time, right if you look at even the kind
Speaker 7: of Roman cults, right like there there was a recognized
Speaker 7: power in these kind of sanguinary topics, right, you know,
Speaker 7: whether whether it was kind of a ritual sacrifice of
Speaker 7: you know, a bull or you're kind of a temple orgy,
Speaker 7: there is a pull to that. And even you know,
Speaker 7: the most kind of materialistic, you know, reddit brained legal
Speaker 7: human can can point this out. I mean you look
Speaker 7: at conversations even something around like like Nixium, right that
Speaker 7: that weird sex cult connected to the Weasner family. Uh,
Speaker 7: it was just just you know, a normal thing for
Speaker 7: a uh, you know, a rich person to be up
Speaker 7: to the point is right, like that is a way
Speaker 7: to to basically reshape the human psyche. And so you
Speaker 7: you have this figure who is by all measures incredibly charismatic,
Speaker 7: has the ability to bend people to his will just
Speaker 7: due to force of personality. You know, he can can
Speaker 7: meet a Chicago detective and basically move into his house.
Speaker 7: And you combine that with the you know, the forces
Speaker 7: you're mentioning, especially in a time which, as you said,
Speaker 7: access to sex and violence was limited. You know, it
Speaker 7: was not as ubiquitous as it is now. Well, yeah,
Speaker 7: you can get people to do crazy things. And again
Speaker 7: I think that when we're talking about ritual When we're
Speaker 7: talking about you know, ritual murder, there's not like just
Speaker 7: one simple explanation for what's going on. It's like, well,
Speaker 7: is he crazy? It's like, get well, no, shit, he's crazy.
Speaker 7: This isn't a normal thing to do. Is there a
Speaker 7: like a spiritual religious component?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 7: Is there also the secondary component of like like this
Speaker 7: is a way to bend people to your will? You know?
Speaker 7: But obviously both the victim and your co conspirators, you know,
Speaker 7: who are who have become kind of bonded in blood
Speaker 7: to you, let alone kind of other factors as well.
Speaker 7: If you see what I'm gidding at, Thomas, No.
Speaker 4: Hundred percent and no, absolutely and more prosaically too. This
Speaker 4: is in my mind the other day because this one
Speaker 4: guy finally was granted post conviction relief I've been doing
Speaker 4: thirty years and he he was this Navy guy. He
Speaker 4: was in Navy Naval Special Warfare. He was going through
Speaker 4: seal training and one of his buddies they were out
Speaker 4: getting you know, getting shithous, and uh, the one guy
Speaker 4: picked up some girl and they were sitting in the
Speaker 4: car just kind of talk fucking, and his buddy's in
Speaker 4: the back seat turns out his buddy, who was this
Speaker 4: crazy kill freak, and he strangled the girl. And this
Speaker 4: guy's looking at this like, oh my god, what the fuck.
Speaker 4: So he got jammed up in a theory of accountability,
Speaker 4: you know, basically a variation to oversimplify a fellony murder.
Speaker 4: But people were like, what any decent man would running
Speaker 4: the police. It's like, man, if I were that guy,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't know what the fuck to do. What am
Speaker 4: I gonna do? Running the police stays and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: my friend killed this girl. I didn't my friend did.
Speaker 4: I've got a dead girl in my car, but I
Speaker 4: didn't do anything. My friend's not gonna be traumatized if
Speaker 4: you witnessed that. Secondly, it's like, how do you explain that.
Speaker 4: You can't explain that you're just gonna panic, you know,
Speaker 4: or if you're if the reason why, you know, in
Speaker 4: a case like the Ripper Crew, I mean got down.
Speaker 4: He sought these guys out because he I believe he
Speaker 4: detected Dvan tendancies in them, and he knew after a
Speaker 4: while they they get drawn into it and spontaneously derived
Speaker 4: satisfaction from it. But even that aside, even if you're
Speaker 4: an upstanding guy, and a decent person does want to
Speaker 4: hurt anybody, you know, Like I said, the fact pattern
Speaker 4: that got this poor guy I just mentioned, you know,
Speaker 4: down for thirty years. There's nothing you can do about that,
Speaker 4: and there's no way to explain it. You know. I'd
Speaker 4: like to think that I throw myself in the mercy
Speaker 4: of the court and try and make my case because
Speaker 4: that's what happened. And I don't lie about stuff. But
Speaker 4: I don't know, man, I'd like to think I do that,
Speaker 4: but I probably like not see shit and hope that
Speaker 4: this never came up again and pray that God would understand.
Speaker 4: You know. It's like, it's real. It's easier for people
Speaker 4: to pass judgment on others when they're not in front
Speaker 4: of those circumstances. I mean, don't get me wrong, man,
Speaker 4: I've known a lot of disreputable people in my life,
Speaker 4: and I'm associated with guys and girls I should not yet,
Speaker 4: but I I owe my spidy senses always kind of
Speaker 4: went nuts when I detected something seriously criminal is about
Speaker 4: to happen, and I bounce, you know. But I think
Speaker 4: I'm kind of a naturally I'm kind of a naturally
Speaker 4: skittish person, you know, the means I got a spiritual
Speaker 4: bond with casts, and I tell you to be nice
Speaker 4: to the burden cat because I understand like what they
Speaker 4: go through. I'm kind of perpetually nervous man, you know,
Speaker 4: and it's like staved my wife, but because with me.
Speaker 4: I don't mean to be abrupt on this, but I'm
Speaker 4: I'm trying to record the much I can before I
Speaker 4: leave tomorrow. And uh, I got a record from my
Speaker 4: phaser in a minute, so I'm gonna I'm gonna raise
Speaker 4: up and uh take a smoke break before I get
Speaker 4: into that at my friend.
Speaker 7: Oh no worries, man.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 7: The series will continue once Thomas and I are back.
Speaker 7: We've got a lot of ground to cover. Thank you
Speaker 7: guys so much for all the support on this. It's
Speaker 7: really been going well. I'll let you go, Thomas. I'll
Speaker 7: make sure to link the description to your substack your YouTube.
Speaker 7: A lot of the backlog of Radio Free Chicago and
Speaker 7: Mind Phaser shows that have been previously paywalled are up
Speaker 7: for free on Thomas's YouTube, so check it out. Go
Speaker 7: say I to him there. I'll be sure to link it.
Speaker 7: As far as my stuff, The Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
Speaker 7: anywhere you listen to podcasts. Show is viewer supported. It's
Speaker 7: what I do full time. He gets worth your your
Speaker 7: your money. I'd appreciate it. You can head over to Patreon,
Speaker 7: Substack or gum road and you get the episodes early
Speaker 7: in ad free. You can also check out our sponsor,
Speaker 7: Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. Coming off the back of a
Speaker 7: nasty illness, down about ten pounds which definitely made the weight.
Speaker 7: It's a little heavier today, but JD does good work.
Speaker 7: You should support him again, Thomas Man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 7: It's great saying you likewise you my friend. Everyone a home,
Speaker 7: keep your head up. Can't last forever.
Speaker 4: Good night.
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