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Speaker 2: The infection felt terrible. I just wasn't getting better. I
was breathing fast and I felt confused. I had sugars
and pain through my body. I was drinking water, but
I wasn't peen. I felt like I was going to die.
In the hospital they said I had sepsis and it's urgent.
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Speaker 4: From the hi see.
Speaker 5: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly, flapping
his wing, big down in the forest man and gonna
cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away man,
nobody seen, nobody.
Speaker 1: See.
Speaker 4: You don't need no man, don't they luck you story?
Speaker 6: And you got backed like that was win Man got
black and dag on the panel. Man matter man, Thomas,
Welcome back to the Jay Burn Show.
Speaker 4: How you doing man, I'm doing very well. Thanks for
hosting me.
Speaker 7: Sorry, Burden Cat just made an unscheduled appearance.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 7: Anyway, so we are getting back to our discussion of
Chicago Ripper Crew.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 7: The feedback on the last one was very good. People
were very interested. Interestingly enough, we had a couple of
people who had personal connections to the case and the
comments I think I sent them to you on substack,
which was interesting. So you know, even though it's slightly
more obscure, people are interested in this topic. And so
I won't hold you anymore, Thomas. Where do you want
to get back into it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I and yeah, the feedback's been great. And to
be to be clear, these guys, we were middle class
white ethnics, I mean, they were working people. But you know,
it doesn't surprise me that there was you know, Northwest
side guys who came across these peoples. And one of
the reasons why it's relevant, it's not just because of
the I mean, it's a horrible case. But as I'll
get into, the investigators as well as the State's Attorney's
office as well as the SBI was convinced that there
were far more victims and there was grave concern that
this was a Son of Sam type situation. And the
Ripper Crew is connected to a network occult network. Okay,
So again that's it's important to push back against the
what's become the prevailing narrative. And also there was there
was an interesting precedent set by this case and these
cases the trials. You know, Andy good Coriels as the
last man executed in Illinois, which is significant. They there
was murders in both Cook and DuPage County, and DuPage
County is a solidly read county. They're super Republican, super
pro Trump, and back then they were the bane of
the of the of the Chicago machine down in Springfield.
So that's interesting too because the death sentences that came
down of this case came down from DuPage. Okay, I'm
not I'm not wearing gloves to be like weird or something.
My handsle was swollen and it looks gross. I don't
be able think I'm trying to be spooky. Something, but uh,
because it may, you know. And as we got into
it before, I think we ended where Tommy could Coreelis
was implicated and then and then confessed, and one of
the lead investigators, name of John sam he couldn't believe
what he was hearing. He attested the fact, you know,
in his words quote, could this stuff really happen? I
didn't even know what to say to this guy. And
finally he put to Tommy, why, why why did you
do these things? And Tommy reiterated, almost for me as
his brother said, he said, you don't understand. Robin get
just makes you do things. And the detective said, what
what do you mean it makes you do things? What
does he do? Does he threatened to does he threaten
to fuck you up? Does he threaten to kill you?
And Tommy he shook his head and said no, he said,
you don't. He said, he just looks into your eyes
and he tells you to do something, and you just
have to do it. Tommy was one hundred percent of
advanced that Gagt had some sort of demonic power over him,
you know, and however ridiculous anybody thinks that is, or
you know, you can chalk it up to coreol is
being a simpleton. But as we'll get into this is
this pattern emerges again and again with get convincing or
persuading people to do things that they would not ordinarily do,
and not just simpletons like Spritzer and arguably Tommy Coo
coriel Is, but you know, very very very normal middle
class people as well, who aren't engaged in deviant behavior
street shit. In any way, Tommy substantiated what his brother
attested to, and to be clear, Andy's testimony or i
mean Andy's confessions, what he relating Costody became fundamentally important
to the cases in chief that substantiated the body of
the indictments because Eddie Spritzer was a moron, and he
was he was changing his narrative every day, and there
was no rhyme or reason to it. And he states attorney,
the assistant state's attorney who got the case, a guy
named Buke. Buke asked what about the severed body parts,
the severed breasts and vist erun things, And apparently this
is the only line of question that really upset Tommy
and this and the state. As Toney said, look, you've
already you're already getting charged with murder. You might as
well give us the details and not played games. And
he acknowledged and validated that these satanic ceremonies took place
in the egg, you know, just as his brother had.
And Tommy actually assigned dates to some of these occurrences.
He said he participated directly in nine or ten of
them between May nineteen eighty one and May nineteen eighty two.
And he also confessed the murder of Lorraine Bowski and
Linda Sutton. And both of these were important because Barowski,
he was that poor woman who was grabbing broad daylight
and gang raped and murdered and mutilated at the hotel
and then dumped in the cemetery. And we were so
far out and horrible what Andy attested to do. It
would have been difficult to substantiate that if there wasn't
a corroborating statement and Lorraine's remains where she was a
skeleton by the time they found her, so it's not
as if they could piece together from piece together forensically
whether this confession could be substantiated. I think it's a
Linda Sutton. She was the first victim found behind the
moonlit motel in Villa Park, so that obviously tied the
case together and created a linear investigative chain that the
trier of fact could follow. And that's that's important. This
bestially in a case that's so massive and severe. Now
this gets really strange, But I was just mentioning a
minute ago about get and as apparent power to manipulate people. Well,
when Ghek was arrested, the Chicago cop named Ron Sebliski.
I assume this is an alias that's used by the
people who related this anecdote because it was the source
that I'm referring to. We're all penned by state actors. Okay,
But Ron Sibliski was a Chicago PD officer and on
May sixth, nineteen eighty two, he responded to a call
of a man with a gun. There's this restaurant, this
kind of Chicago's got a lot of twenty four diners
to this day. There's this old restaurant as long as
since clothes called the Grand Austin Grill. It was this
all night diner. Okay, So sublisky, he's a beat cop
in Chicago with twenty years on the job. He pulls
up in front of the restaurant, answer the call, and
he finds out that what happened was there was this
young lady and some drunks staggered in there and started
hassling her and then started fish roughing her up. And
this other patron pulled out a gun, drew a beat
on this man and said leave her alone, and then
forced the guy out of the restaurant and then he
halted his weapon and sat back down. Well, that man
was Robin Get, Okay. So Sublisky's this was before long
before there was any kind of CCW in Chicago. Okay.
So Sublisky and his partner was like, hey, this guy
did a good deed, but hey, sorry, you know you're
gonna catch charges for this. And Get's like, nah, I understand.
So Get does Oblisky and these costs became buddies, okay,
and they started they developed this rapport and his Siblisky's
booking Get on the firearms charge. He's mentioning about how
he's got this house that he's, you know, wanted to
invest in as a fixer. Uppers become this money pitch
and Gets like, oh, hey, you'm a master carpenter an electrician,
you know, why don't let me take a look at it.
So sure enough, Get Start shows up with his crew
Eddie Spritzer and some other guys, and he does this
like incredible job on this CoP's house. And Soblisky said,
this guy was the most skilled carpenter I've ever seen.
And Sublisky's kids started like hanging out with Ghek's kids
and playing together. You know, Get's kids would sleep over
at his house. Gets was proactively living at this dude's house,
this cop for like a year, and then you know,
this cop realized something was off. You know, he didn't
know what, but he said, why why am I letting
this guy basically live in my house? You know? Why
am I like buying his kids groceries? You know, like,
why why why am I letting his kids stay at
my house half the week? So so Blisky apparently gradually
put an end to it, you know, and and the
work that Deek was doing in the house and was
coming to it in anyway. But after Gek was arrested
for multiple homicide and kidnapping and mulicious wounding and all
this horrible stuff, Soblisky shows up at Area five and
goes nuts and he's like, he's innocent. This man's a
friend of mine. How dare you accuse him of these
horrible crimes? And this always came to blows between him
and these detectives who are as superiors. Okay, Like that's
that's crazy, you know, Like what this dude was putting
his career in jeopardy to go to bat for Robin Ghekt,
Like that's Gaysey. Like okay, because Gaysey not only would
gaze schmooze the police and stuff, but Gaysey was a
really skilled contractor and he'd do work for people and
they'd be really happy and you know, but that doesn't
explain the entire scenario. You know, Gek had some sort
of ability to manipulate people profoundly, and not in terms
of traditional charisma. I mean, Ghek wasn't he wasn't particularly
handsome or you know, alpha or anything. But there was
there's something very strange going on here, you know, and
especially you know, cops are very clannish. Number one, they
basically went hear around with other police. That's what jumped
out of me. And Okay, I get it that these
police on the scene at a Grand and at the
Grand Avenue diner, they look at Ghek. It's kind of
a hero in the situation. But it's like, I can't
imagine it's a normal protocol that started hanging out socially
with people you collor that that seems highly improper, regardless
of the underlying circumstances. But and that that gave every
that gave the detectives pause, you know, And I'll I'll
expand on that in a bit. But the uh one
a second, you know, and it's uh apparently two. In
addition to this mistress of Gets who boughted him out
when he was first arrested, get To introduced Seblisky to
this bizarre kind of butch lesbian who is also in
the building trades, and she apparently gave get To money
and would take him around to uh her gay friends
to show him off, like like he was her boy
toy or something. And get told brag to Oblisky that
he was pimping women and that this lesbian who we
called Miss Ross, that Miss Ross. He's like, you know,
even if things go bad with my wife, you know,
miss Ross is loaded, and she'll she'll she'll give me
buying me anything I need. I don't even need the baller.
I mean, like this is insane and this guy's telling
this too is a cop. He's basically living in his
house and uh, you know this this doesn't I mean,
I guess eventually this cops spidy senses got triggered, but
that the whole thing seems incredibly perverse and abnormal.
Speaker 5: It uh.
Speaker 4: The Now this is interesting too because by this point
November eighty two, all the Ripper crewre in custody. But
in November sixteenth, another young woman's body was found of
the under the Fullerton Amity Bridge and exactly the same
location where Sondra Delaware had been murdered. See what, like
Sandra Dollar, wasn't done there. That's the victim that Andy
kok Corialis claimed that she was murdered there, and the
the the physical evidence suggested that because there was liquid
blood that had pooled, she'd been found probably not even
an hour after she'd been murdered, but this would have
been had been stabbed all over her body. They were
able to ideal because there was a bond slip in
her jacket pocket. She'd just been bonded out of Cook
County for prostitution, and she was a hooker whose official
residence with North Lincoln Avenue, and that was one of
the Ripper Crew's hunting grounds. So the police became convinced
that there was more. There were more the rippers out there,
you know, and obviously get doesn't saying anything. The Corialis
brothers and even even simple to nighty sprites are they're
realizing they're looking at the death penalty, you know. And
by this time there they got representation, you know, and
their public defenders are telling him stop stop talking. Your
life is on the line. So this never was truly resolved.
Speaker 2: But the.
Speaker 4: Chicago PD, they put out a nationwide bulletin about the
Ripper Crew and asking for communication by telex as to
whether or not any homicides anywhere in the United States
matching this mo and this victim profile where you know,
there was an unstuff at large relating to those incidents,
you know. So they they were absolutely convinced that this
was not an isolated cell of occult motivated murderers. November twentieth,
Eddie Sprecher was formally indicted along with Andy Cook coriel
As for the murder of Schuey Mack. Eddie Spreutzer was
also indicted for attempted murder, aggravated battery, and armed a
violence for the only two known male victims the Ripper Crew.
There were those two gang bangers who got blasted around Wrigleyville,
Raphael Toronto and Albert Wizzario. One of the guys died.
One of the guys lived with catastrophic brain injury, you know,
And that was I believe the speculation, you know, Get
was a was a firearms of ficionados who was always strapped.
I believe he blasted those guys thinking that the police
would chalk it up to street ship, which they did
because both these guys you know, wrote as as Latin kings,
and I think he was testing sprister to see if
he you know, see what he'd do if he had
it in him the you know, be a murder rampy.
But in any event, Get himself wasn't convicted of murder
because they really all they had to put him at
the scene of these murders was odd circumstantial evidence. The
the main case in chief, the case even against him
was mainly substantiated by his victim who survived, okay, And
the problem is the rest of the Ripper crew who
implicated him. You know, you have a right to confront
your accuser if they refuse to testify, you know that
evidence can't be introduced. You know. So what they did
have Get on the hook for was attempted murder, already kidnapping,
deviate sexual assault and rape for what he did do
what he did to that victim who survived Beverly, Washington.
The crux against defense was that brutal as this attack
may have been, it didn't rise to the level of
intendant required to substancy to conviction for attempted murder. And
before the trial Gets lawyers demanded a sanity hearing, which
is you're right. And this was before it was impossible
to prevail on an insanity defense, which for all practical
purposes postinkly it is. So this wasn't just a fool's
errand Get was examined by the director of Cook County
Psychiatric Institute and Uh in a letter to the court,
doctor Reefman, who was the man in question. It was
very brief, he he said to the judge presenting judges
Francis Mahone. He said to Judge Mahone, the defendant understands
the nature of the charges against him, and it was
thus legally seen at the time of the offense that's
really all that that that really is all insanity the
jury is concerned with categorically, you know, can the defendant
understand the nature of the charges against him? And could
he I mean, and could he understand the wrongfulness of
it is of his conduct? I mean, the understanding the
nature of the charges of the predict did for competence
see to stand trial? You know, being able to formulate
intent based upon an understanding of moral wrongfulness obviously cuts
of something who liability. But it was clear, Uh, I
mean that that that's you gotta if if it even
though Gek goes on the hook for murder, it Uh,
obviously in a case that's severe, you're gonna you're gonna
file the emotion you can gets. Trial was a was
a fiasco due to no fault of the judge or
the state's attorneys. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
When a deepts lawyers noticed that one of the jurors
she was carrying a newspaper with the headline woman relates
quote ripper attack and the article went on to suggest
that Gek absolutely was the leader of the Ripper crew.
And then it had this whole squib about Get's miserable
childhood and his his alleged sexual dv and see you know,
and Get's lawyers obviously immediately a maned a mistrial. Mahone
has specifically instructed the jurors to avoid all news media, uh,
you know, television or print. You know. The fact that
this woman had this was carrying this paper little under
her arm. I mean, I presume she was passing this
around in the jury room. You know what of.
Speaker 7: This? This?
Speaker 4: This is this was obvious grounds for appeal. So Mahone
declares a mistrial. Geck gets uh shuttle it back to
Cook County Jail. Get Uh. His lawyers moved for a
change of venue, and uh, mahone wouldn't hear of it.
A new jury was impaneled, you know, and and Get's
attorneys basically doubled down on the fact that in the
case of Beverly, Washington, it was dark you know, the
victim byro own admission and force fed drugs. You know,
she had a history of past recreational drug use. How
could she positively id get? You know? And furthermore, Uh,
there the injury sustained, even if for the sake of argument, counterfactually,
Get was was the man who attacked her. They they
didn't rise the level of attempted murder. Get's wife testified
her husband was home all night at the time of
the attack, which was this woman was not remotely credible,
and she came off as bizarre. She wore all black
and had her hair dyed black and looked like some
TM version of Elvira or something. If he look at
photographs of her, he gets, mother, Uh seemed just kind
of like a sad old lady. And you know she
her testimony constituted character evedence and all but name. You know,
she she just came off as kind of pathetic and saying,
you know, my You know, Robin is a good boy,
and he's so weak and easily frightened. He you know,
his brother has always had to do his fighting for him.
He was scared of his own shadow.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: So this uh get uh And finally.
Speaker 8: The uh.
Speaker 4: What gets lawyers reserved for closing argument was to hang
it Eyety sprites her. They did when they couldn't intimate
that Eddie sprites her, who by sprites her, and the
police is and the States are in his own acknowledgment
borrowed the Robin gets a work van on the regular.
It was he committed these attacks, you know it, Uh,
it was he who attacked. Uh you know the these
this woman who survived, you know and uh in the dark.
Speaker 8: Uh you know.
Speaker 4: She couldn't tell one slightly built white man from the other.
But I mean that didn't that the jury came back
in two hours. I mean as none of these, none
of these arguments raised anything approaching reasonable doubt. But with
what these with what defense counts led to work with,
I think it was a perfectly capable defense. He was
convicted of all accounts. Mahone sentenced Get to sixty years
for rape and deviates, sexual assault, and armed violence, and
then he had an additional sixty years for attempted murder.
And you know, the this woman was maimed horribly and
dumped in and Ali and she would have she would
have bled out within minutes if she hadn't been discovered
almost immediately by a sanitation worker. So I mean that,
you know, get Get was done and it was obvious.
Uh Mahone was Judge Mahone made it clear and the
statements he made it sentencing that he you know, he
believed Ghek was a multiple murderer. You know, he made
no bones about clarifying that sprites her on the Chicago murders.
Pled guilty to four homicides and attempt and one attempted murder.
He was sentenced to life plus one hundred and twenty
years for the rape and murder of Rosebeck Davis, who
was the victim who was grabbed off a rushed street.
He caught thirty years to the rape and murder of
Sadra Delaware, life plus one hundred and eighty years for
the kidnapping and murder of Shoey Mack, thirty years the
attempted murder of Albert Rosario, life sentence for the murder
of Raphael Toronto. But he still had to fight charges
in Gepage County for the murder of Linda Sutton. He
went on Treal there in nineteen eighty six and he
was sent to death. And really his lawyer said nothing.
Defense council simply tried to portray him as incompetent, you know,
and incapable of rendering independent decisions or at with any
independent agency. You know, by this point too, it was
a done deal. I mean, this was this was several
years after the after the murders and uh the facts
and circumstances, It's circulated far and wide. People were disgusted,
people were outraged that they were horrified. There's echoes of gacy,
but Someonay's even worse because this was for defendants. The
state also emphasized in the page the unfaimable depravity of
these events, and the states attorneys suggested in closing argument, Look,
this is becoming an epidemic of people committing these kinds
of crimes based upon bizarre cultic motivations and essentially the
said of the jury. Not only does the blood of
these victims, possibly dozens of them, cry out for vengeance,
but we've got to send a message that the men
who do these kinds of things are in the service
of strange gods, are going to go to the death chamber,
you know. And Spriteser remain on death row until two
thousand and three, when his sentence was commuted along with
every other condemned. They may nill annoy by George H.
Ryan knowing to the Birds scandal and a lot of
other shit. Birds was this homicide detective with a lot
of clout who uh head over decades tortured suspects into confession.
And this was a disaster because obviously that compromised verdicts
across the board, and it led to a justice not
being realized in the case of many condemned who absolutely
were guilty as a matter of fact, as a matter
of law. Let's sprite, sir. On February fifth, nineteen eighty five,
Andy Could Corialis went to trial for the murder of
Rosebeck Davis, Andy Could Coriolis attorney. He claimed that the
confession was coerced, so we don't even need the rebut
the material facts being alleged because Driscoll essentially alleged that
when Ghek Stonewall the police and sprites are proved to
be a totally unreliable head case, the police simply swept
up Andy Courialis and and worked him over until he
gave them something, you know, and that in reality, he
played no part at all in the crime. He was
just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and
he happened to be acquainted with Robin Ghekt. And when
you consider the I mean Courialis's confession was catastrophic for
his own defense because not only not only did he
cop to eighteen murders. He said there was probably a
lot more. He gave a timeline, he substantiated dates, discrete acts,
locations where the victims were seized, where they were dumped.
I mean he was he was finished. He and he
caught a life sentence to murder Rose big Davis. But
two years later DuPage County got him for the murder
of Lorraine Barowski. And it was the same state's attorney,
Brian Talander, who prosecuted Spritzer and co core Als, was
convicted a murder and he was sentenced to death and
Andy Andy Kakrielis was executed March seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine.
He was the last man executed in the state of Illinois.
And that was that was very deliberate, and the jury
was traumatized. During the penalty phase, Tolander spared no details
on what had happened, what had happened to these women,
and specifically the details of Lorraine Barowski's murder, which had
come from the lip, the details of which had got
him the lips of any could Coriolis. And I don't
get me wrong, I was entirely proper, you know, but
it's it was abjectly horrifying. And uh, I think du
Page would have I think he would have gone to
the death chamber anyway. But the fact that that was
the charge he was having to fight, you know, he
he was done. He was a dead man walking. As
I stated, I think last episode Andy could Coriolis, his
spiritual advisor, maintained that he'd returned to his Orthodox faith.
He was repent. Andy's last words were, quote to the
Barowski family, I'm truly sorry for your loss. I mean
that sincerely, and then he said repent ye for the
Kingdom of Heaven is in hand. And uh, you know
he was. He was executed by lethal injection. And there
was a lasting trauma to this case. I don't I
know that's that's that's become a stupid word. And I'm
sure especially younger people are tidy hearing it. Everything's supposally
a trauma. But one of the detectives Bureau guys I
years later, sometime in the nineties, he uh, this was
his testimony and hind said on the case, he said, quote,
no other case ever disturbed me like this one.
Speaker 1: Did.
Speaker 4: These guys killed a lot more women than the ones
we got them for. I know that we all know it.
We all knew it back then. There are bodies out
there somewhere, young women who deserve the rest in peace
in their own graves, and we should have been able
to find them, should have been able to put them
to rest. I think about the parents all the time
who can't sleep at night, worrying and wondering what happened
to their daughters. They deserve to know, and now they
never will. I quit homicide because of this case, you know,
And after much as this was locally sort of a
of an obsession, people wanted to forget it after it
was done because it was so horrible. But the police
always maintained and I'm the last person who finds the
police intrinsically credible. But Chicago PD always maintained that there
was probably more of these guys affiliated with the Ripper
Crew itself. And you know, Robiney, get him just one day,
think up these bizarre practices. He was probably initiated into this.
He probably like the like like David Burke Away, it's
got drawn into some sort of satanic subculture and like
gaycy because he got away with these things again and again,
and because he was a practicing occultist. He he he
probably believed he wasn't going to be knighted. He probably
thought I have some kind of supernatural power. Look, I
can't even manipulate this cop. I'm practically living in his house.
I've got I've got pimping out these women who are
bailing me out of prison. I got this. I got
this butcher lesbian who's who's just paying my bills as
long as I, you know, take along to her, you know,
or or or parties or whatever, you know.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 4: Incidentally, I was, uh, I was. I was watching some
of the what's called the Clearwater testimony.
Speaker 8: That was.
Speaker 4: L Ron Hubbard's son who defected from the Church of
Scientology early on, but who had been instrumental in building it.
He said, Look, he's like first and foremost, he's like
my father wasn't occultist. He was fastly that was the
Crowley you know, he is affiliation with Robert Parsons and
Errol Flynn had to do as occult fascinations. And he's like, no,
Scientology wasn't a religion. That was his way of avoiding
heat from the irs and and the AMA, as well
as a way to sell the suckers a package that
would separate them their money. But he's like such that.
My father's religious. He was very much an occult believer,
and he thought that, you know, he he thought he
would never face consequences, and that you know, he had
absolute confidence in the con because he he was more
than just a con man. He believed he had some
sort of Satanic power over people. You know. And the
degree to which of you believe in something with absolute confidence,
you can believe other you can convince others of those things.
That that's really what the nature is of a perfect liar,
because even people who are just sociopathic and know they're lying,
they've always got tells or they always slip up, or
it's always somehow affected if you believe in what you
are saying. There's something about human beings. They're they're hardwired.
We're in the absence of triggers suggesting dishonesty. They they
they take on the beliefs uh in the in the
veracity of what's being told to them by declarance I believe,
and that that becomes a positive feedback mechanism. And if
you're that that then in turn reinforces the delusion. But
It's also something at emphasize too, because I'm sure to
people this idea of this, that this weird little guy,
this weird, shitty little guy with an alternate addic doing
horrible things to body parts. It's like, well, who would
be taken in by that? What was the spectacle of
that beyond the fact that it's revolting. It's like, look before,
when the only stimulus outside of real space was television
or the movies, people's responses were totally different, whether you're
talking about how they respond to violence or sex or
anything else. Like even people used to think, even even
in my lifetime, like when I was a kid, people
love stuff like Penthouse Magazine was unbelievably racy when really
was just naked girls, you know, I mean, like think
about that, and uh, they'd look at something like they
look at a Mando movie, you know, like shocking age
or Faces of Death, which even the real footage they're
in was pretty tame stuff. But that was considered to be,
you know, really really outside the scope of what was
decent or humans should be seeing, you know, for the
purpose of titillation or whatever. So a lot of what
people devised in terms of their own fantasies or in
terms of their own stimulus, emerged from within their own
imaginings and was informed by what other people suggested that
you know, they fantasized about or were interested in voyeuristically
or in terms of stimulus and things. So if you
had the ability to manipulate others anyway, you didn't really
have to move mountains to impress upon them with an
immersive experience, especially if there was real violence and depravity
behind it, if you follow what I mean. So that's
some Yeah, I mean, you've always got to keep zeitgeist
in mind, and you've always got to keep the epoch
in which events occur in mind when you're addressing the
impact on an observer or a participant or a an
actor to the proceedings under discussion or scrutiny. But that's
that's particularly significant in the era we're talking about what
the subject matter we're taught excuse me, we're talking about
if you follow my line of thought.
Speaker 7: No, certainly, and I mean the power of sex and
violence to control people is We've understood this for a
long time, right if you look at even the kind
of Roman cults, right like there there was a recognized
power in these kind of sanguinary topics, right, you know,
whether whether it was kind of a ritual sacrifice of
you know, a bull or you're kind of a temple orgy,
there is a pull to that. And even you know,
the most kind of materialistic, you know, reddit brained legal
human can can point this out. I mean you look
at conversations even something around like like Nixium, right that
that weird sex cult connected to the Weasner family. Uh,
it was just just you know, a normal thing for
a uh, you know, a rich person to be up
to the point is right, like that is a way
to to basically reshape the human psyche. And so you
you have this figure who is by all measures incredibly charismatic,
has the ability to bend people to his will just
due to force of personality. You know, he can can
meet a Chicago detective and basically move into his house.
And you combine that with the you know, the forces
you're mentioning, especially in a time which, as you said,
access to sex and violence was limited. You know, it
was not as ubiquitous as it is now. Well, yeah,
you can get people to do crazy things. And again
I think that when we're talking about ritual When we're
talking about you know, ritual murder, there's not like just
one simple explanation for what's going on. It's like, well,
is he crazy? It's like, get well, no, shit, he's crazy.
This isn't a normal thing to do. Is there a
like a spiritual religious component?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 7: Is there also the secondary component of like like this
is a way to bend people to your will? You know?
But obviously both the victim and your co conspirators, you know,
who are who have become kind of bonded in blood
to you, let alone kind of other factors as well.
If you see what I'm gidding at, Thomas, No.
Speaker 4: Hundred percent and no, absolutely and more prosaically too. This
is in my mind the other day because this one
guy finally was granted post conviction relief I've been doing
thirty years and he he was this Navy guy. He
was in Navy Naval Special Warfare. He was going through
seal training and one of his buddies they were out
getting you know, getting shithous, and uh, the one guy
picked up some girl and they were sitting in the
car just kind of talk fucking, and his buddy's in
the back seat turns out his buddy, who was this
crazy kill freak, and he strangled the girl. And this
guy's looking at this like, oh my god, what the fuck.
So he got jammed up in a theory of accountability,
you know, basically a variation to oversimplify a fellony murder.
But people were like, what any decent man would running
the police. It's like, man, if I were that guy,
I wouldn't know what the fuck to do. What am
I gonna do? Running the police stays and be like, oh,
my friend killed this girl. I didn't my friend did.
I've got a dead girl in my car, but I
didn't do anything. My friend's not gonna be traumatized if
you witnessed that. Secondly, it's like, how do you explain that.
You can't explain that you're just gonna panic, you know,
or if you're if the reason why, you know, in
a case like the Ripper Crew, I mean got down.
He sought these guys out because he I believe he
detected Dvan tendancies in them, and he knew after a
while they they get drawn into it and spontaneously derived
satisfaction from it. But even that aside, even if you're
an upstanding guy, and a decent person does want to
hurt anybody, you know, Like I said, the fact pattern
that got this poor guy I just mentioned, you know,
down for thirty years. There's nothing you can do about that,
and there's no way to explain it. You know. I'd
like to think that I throw myself in the mercy
of the court and try and make my case because
that's what happened. And I don't lie about stuff. But
I don't know, man, I'd like to think I do that,
but I probably like not see shit and hope that
this never came up again and pray that God would understand.
You know. It's like, it's real. It's easier for people
to pass judgment on others when they're not in front
of those circumstances. I mean, don't get me wrong, man,
I've known a lot of disreputable people in my life,
and I'm associated with guys and girls I should not yet,
but I I owe my spidy senses always kind of
went nuts when I detected something seriously criminal is about
to happen, and I bounce, you know. But I think
I'm kind of a naturally I'm kind of a naturally
skittish person, you know, the means I got a spiritual
bond with casts, and I tell you to be nice
to the burden cat because I understand like what they
go through. I'm kind of perpetually nervous man, you know,
and it's like staved my wife, but because with me.
I don't mean to be abrupt on this, but I'm
I'm trying to record the much I can before I
leave tomorrow. And uh, I got a record from my
phaser in a minute, so I'm gonna I'm gonna raise
up and uh take a smoke break before I get
into that at my friend.
Speaker 7: Oh no worries, man.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 7: The series will continue once Thomas and I are back.
We've got a lot of ground to cover. Thank you
guys so much for all the support on this. It's
really been going well. I'll let you go, Thomas. I'll
make sure to link the description to your substack your YouTube.
A lot of the backlog of Radio Free Chicago and
Mind Phaser shows that have been previously paywalled are up
for free on Thomas's YouTube, so check it out. Go
say I to him there. I'll be sure to link it.
As far as my stuff, The Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
anywhere you listen to podcasts. Show is viewer supported. It's
what I do full time. He gets worth your your
your money. I'd appreciate it. You can head over to Patreon,
Substack or gum road and you get the episodes early
in ad free. You can also check out our sponsor,
Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. Coming off the back of a
nasty illness, down about ten pounds which definitely made the weight.
It's a little heavier today, but JD does good work.
You should support him again, Thomas Man, I appreciate it.
It's great saying you likewise you my friend. Everyone a home,
keep your head up. Can't last forever.
Speaker 4: Good night.
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