WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.199 Elon Musk is here. 2 00:00:01.320 --> 00:00:04.879 He is chief executive of two startup companies with bowl missions. 3 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:07.879 He leads Tesla Motors, the electric car company that has 4 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:11.919 attracted attention from both car enthusiasts and environmentalist as well. 5 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:15.119 The company's powerful rochister, which can travel from zero to 6 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:19.559 sixty in less than four seconds, is entirely powered by batteries. 7 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:22.120 The company plans to break into the mainstream modo market 8 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.640 with an electric sedan as early as twenty eleven. Mosk 9 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:28.640 is also a found to see of Space Exploration Technologies, 10 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.960 a company trying to slash the cost of space travel. 11 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:34.560 Last year, the company signed an agreement with NASA to 12 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.840 send cargo to the International Space Station and if that 13 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.119 is not enough. He's also chairman of a growing company 14 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:44.679 called Solar City that installs solar panels on homes and businesses. 15 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.280 He has thrived in Silicon Valley one of the co 16 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.840 founders of PayPal, the online payments company that eBay bought 17 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.799 for one point five billion dollars in two thousand and two. 18 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.119 I am pleased to have him here at this table 19 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:57.240 for the first time. 20 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.640 Welcome, Thank you, thanks for having me. I've been a 21 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:01.039 big find of the show for a long time. 22 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:03.240 Let's just talk about you first, so that if the 23 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.079 audience does not know growing up in South Africa. Yeah yeah, 24 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.319 and why how how did you end up in Canada? 25 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.640 Well, I guess growing up in South Africa, I was 26 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:18.120 actually it was very technology oriented and I taught myself 27 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.280 how to program computers, mostly because I wanted to program games. 28 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.359 And I when when I was about twelve, program sold 29 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.799 my first game, and whenever I'd read about technology and 30 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:34.840 great innovation, it's it was coming from from the United States, and. 31 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:35.920 So it was, you know, that's where I wanted to be. 32 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.480 And I tried to convince my parents to move move there, 33 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:41.000 and uh, neither of them would They would have wahed. 34 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.239 I tried my mother trying to find neither would would 35 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:46.920 do it. My mother later moved back to initially Canada 36 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:49.159 and then and then the US. And so when I 37 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:51.799 was seventeen, as soon as I got my Canadian passport, 38 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:53.799 three weeks later, I was in Canada. 39 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:56.799 So here you are, and you come to Canada and 40 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.640 make it to the United States, and then you and 41 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.599 and several other guys come together and create PayPal right 42 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.799 and you sell it to eBay for one point whatever. 43 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:05.040 It was five billion dollars. 44 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:09.439 Yeah, so after PayPal, Uh that that gave me, you know, 45 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:14.000 a fair bit of capital. And uh, there were there 46 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.199 were there were three areas when as in college, there 47 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:17.639 were three areas that I though would most affect the 48 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:21.120 future of humanity and and those were the Internet, the 49 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:24.719 transition to a sustainable energy and transportation sector. And the 50 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:27.319 third was space exploration and particularly the extension of life 51 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:29.719 to multiple planets. And I didn't ever expect to be 52 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:31.840 involved in the third one, but but it just that 53 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:32.240 seems to. 54 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:34.039 Me that's something that would be very important for the future. 55 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.000 And with the capital I got from the sale of PayPal, 56 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.319 I was able to go into both those those areas. 57 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.680 And uh and so hint hents uh SpaceX and and 58 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:48.759 in the space and then in in the sustainable energy 59 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:51.599 and transportation you've got Solar City and and Tesla. 60 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:54.240 We to talk about space exploration just for a moment. 61 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.840 How is it going in terms of creating the systems 62 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:03.280 that will engage in space exploration, not just for governments 63 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:06.360 and not just for NASA, but for private citizens as well. 64 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.360 Well. 65 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:10.400 You have to divide the efforts that are going on 66 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:13.759 into what isn't an orbit class effort versus a sub 67 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.240 orbital class effort, and there's really a very big difference. 68 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:18.919 But the general public doesn't understand the difference between getting 69 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:20.759 to space and getting to getting to orbit, and so 70 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:25.120 it's important to make that distinction. To do a suborbital flight, 71 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.479 you need a terminal velosity of around mark three. To 72 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:30.879 get to orbit you need a terminal polosophy of mark 73 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:35.479 twenty five. It's a huge, huge difference. And because the 74 00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:38.039 energy required to do that scales with the square of 75 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:43.039 the velocity, So suborbital maybe nine units of energy, orbit 76 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.000 is six hundred and twenty five units of energy, So 77 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.479 it's only about one and a half percent of the 78 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:50.319 energy of orbit is required to get to SubOrbit. So 79 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:52.240 that there's there are a number of efforts in the 80 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:55.680 suboverval category that certainly could grow one day to to orbital. 81 00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:01.280 Jeff Bezos has an effort, and uh, I know that 82 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.360 that's something that that's Ranson involved in this. Branson absolutely, 83 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.240 not so much directly from the technology standpoint, but from 84 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.960 he's he's funding that development at Scales Composits in California. 85 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:15.120 What are you doing? So we're in the we're in 86 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:16.439 the in the in the orbit class. 87 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.079 And that's it's it's a lot more capital and and 88 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:21.160 uh and and and that's really where you're sort of 89 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:24.639 pushing the ragged edge of of what's what's physically possible. 90 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.879 And uh, last year we got to orbit uh with 91 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:29.720 for the first. 92 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:35.000 Time with with our rocket and UH that was certainly 93 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:36.800 a huge relief and a milestone. 94 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.240 And so what's the next step, You're gonna rocket into orbit? 95 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:44.120 Yeah, so next month we were putting a satellite for 96 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:48.680 Malaysia into orbit uh and then from Malaysia form Formulasia 97 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.240 Malasian satellite. And but in the rocket business, the rocket 98 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.279 company does launch. It's not like the airline business. So 99 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.720 you don't sell the rocket, you sell the launch. And 100 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.240 and then later this year we'll be launching out big 101 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:04.439 rocket from Cape Canaveral. That's the Falcon Mine and that's 102 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.240 the one that's going to be servicing the space station 103 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:07.360 among other things. 104 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:10.120 Is there a philosophy here that somehow the private sector 105 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.720 can do a lot more than than it has done 106 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.800 in in areas that seem because of them because of 107 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.600 the size related reserved for government. 108 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:25.879 Yeah, definitely, the private sector is very good at at 109 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:29.839 optimization and an innovation. I mean, private sector is generally 110 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.759 better doing things than the government. Uh. 111 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:33.800 I think that's that's that's fair to say. 112 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.639 But you know, there are certain things that that that 113 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.360 the government that that asks through to the government, like 114 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:45.600 basic research and that sort of thing. But yeah, so 115 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:50.439 as far as uh, space, the reason that there hasn't 116 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:55.120 been a huge number of a big improvement in the 117 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.800 space industry, I think it's because of it's very difficult 118 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:03.720 for it is create a destruction process to to to 119 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:08.519 coming to effect because it is such a significant amount 120 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.720 of capital that's needed to start a rocket company, and 121 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.639 it's a very difficult technical challenge. And the number of 122 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.120 people that that really understand rocketry in the world is 123 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:20.360 a very small number. So it's it's just it's really 124 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.800 a huge barrier to entry and and that's why we 125 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.120 haven't seen the forcing function of improvement that that there 126 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:27.120 should have been over the years. 127 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:30.560 And your understanding came from sort of from this was 128 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:33.399 not what you studied in college. Well, I studied physics, 129 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:37.000 but I was studying physics and studying rocket science thing. 130 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.360 Yeah, No, it gives you the basics, It gives you 131 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:45.279 the basics. Good framework, analytical framework. So, uh, but no, 132 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.360 I picked it up along the way. But what is 133 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:55.839 your core competent you think you? I think it's uh technology, technology, Yeah, yeah, technology. 134 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:56.079 Yeah. 135 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.959 If if, if something has to be designed and invented 136 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:01.639 and then and you have to figure out how to 137 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:06.160 ensure that the value of the thing you create is 138 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:09.759 greater than the cost of the inputs, then that's that's 139 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:10.639 probably my course skill. 140 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:13.199 Now bring me to the car. And I drove a 141 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:18.279 car this afternoon. So far, so good, which was terrific. 142 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:23.480 It's the Roadster. Yeah. Where does that stand you? Obviously 143 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.319 I've been I've been in the Google parking lot. Yeah, 144 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:28.560 you're seen a few that I've seen a few there. Yeah, 145 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.800 I'm sure that's true another place in Silicon Valley. I 146 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.000 don't know whether it's particularly a car that appeals to 147 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:38.000 people in Silicon Valley because of interest in technology and 148 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:41.360 high performance and lots of other things, or or what 149 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.279 whether there are a lot of rich people and who 150 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:45.600 willing to spend that kind of money for something they 151 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.199 think is on the cutting edge of causes A believe 152 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:52.480 in sustainable energy. Right, tell me about how where you 153 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:56.879 are in this development of this electric car which has 154 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.040 most of all this extraordinary sort of power. 155 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.399 Yeah, you know, Yeah, zero to takes sixty times a 156 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:04.800 three point nine Seguis and. 157 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:06.800 The roast is extraordinary. 158 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:09.199 When you think about the sports car, isn't there anything 159 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.439 else that's out on the road today. 160 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:11.839 Yeah. 161 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:13.879 In fact, on the top gear test track, our standard 162 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.959 roads to beats the Porsche GT three exactly, which is 163 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.959 one that reference, and the roads total to even better. 164 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:21.279 Yeah. 165 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:24.639 But you've also said, in terms of where you want 166 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.680 to go that that developing a high performer sports car 167 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:29.160 is not what this is about. 168 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:32.240 Absolutely, it is about something else. And you want to 169 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:34.360 develop a sedan. Yeah. 170 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:37.919 The whole purpose behind Tesla, the reason I've put so 171 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:41.000 much of my time and money it's helping create the 172 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:44.399 business is is we want to serve as a catalyst 173 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:46.360 for accelerating the electric car revolution. 174 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:49.759 The price of gas. 175 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.279 At the pump does not reflect the true cost of 176 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.559 gasoline because you have a consumption of. 177 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:54.759 A public good. 178 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.360 It's one of the most It's really a common problem economos. 179 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.039 You have the same thing in fishing, where because there's 180 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:03.399 no cost to fishing stocks, people just over fish and 181 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:08.440 you have disaster that ensues. And here we're not paying 182 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:10.720 for the cost of this year two concentration in the 183 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:12.919 oceans and the atmospheres. We're not paying for all these 184 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:14.919 the ancillary effects of the wars and all the other 185 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:17.639 things at the gas prompt So you effectively have a 186 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.440 subsidy taking place at the gas comp because of that. 187 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:23.039 So the only way to bridge that is with innovation 188 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:27.240 is to try to try to make electric cars better 189 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:28.200 sooner than they would. 190 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.080 Otherwise be this Suppose this, this is a hypothetical which 191 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:32.919 it may or may not speak to the point. 192 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:35.399 But suppose fifteen. 193 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:40.440 Years ago, let's say Bill Clinton as president, who talked 194 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:42.000 about the road to the twenty first cent fion and 195 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:42.440 all of that. 196 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:43.720 Suppose he had said, I. 197 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.879 Believe so much unsustainable energy that I want to make 198 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:51.039 a commitment and the federal government, using all of its resources, 199 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:55.759 will develop an electric car with appropriate battery power that 200 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.159 will change the face of automobile, the automobile industry in 201 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:03.240 the world. Was that very doable? Bill Clinton was elected 202 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:06.639 in nineteen ninety two, seventeen years ago. 203 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:11.320 Yeah, you could have made a reasonably good electric car 204 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.879 around that time for a lot of investment. 205 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:17.559 And should that have been done, should the US government 206 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:19.799 have made that kind of otherwise you will not be 207 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:22.639 able to change the driving habits of Americans. 208 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:28.559 Was it a worthwhile expenditu or add that time, probably 209 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:30.080 would have been a worthwhile expenditure. 210 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.279 But the thing that really helps electric cars is lithium 211 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:36.360 my own right? 212 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:37.440 And when did that come around? 213 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:39.919 I mean, explain why our batteries has always been the 214 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:42.960 great dilemma for developing an electric car. 215 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.759 Sure well, the energy contained with their battery is so 216 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:51.440 much less than it's contained in gasoline that I mean, 217 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.240 it's really almost it's hard to quite describe. Another way 218 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:57.559 to put it is the Tesla battery pack in the roadstuff, 219 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:59.840 which is the most advanced batory pack in the world. 220 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:04.399 The common reference is to call what is actually a 221 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.639 cell a battery, right, So a cell is the little 222 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:10.039 single kin of chemicals. And then if you have multiple cells, 223 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.519 that's that's what actually a battery. Right, That's that's virtually 224 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:15.559 what a battery means, multiple cells, multiple cells. And then 225 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:17.639 and usually as the batteries get bigger and bigger, they 226 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:21.320 get harder and harder to deal with. So the cell 227 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:24.360 that we use as a commodity cell, it's bid anywhere 228 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:26.159 pretty much and it's and it's the same sort of 229 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:28.279 thing that's in any one of a number of laptops. 230 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:31.840 That the challenge is combining those cells into and having 231 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:35.240 thousands of them, making sure they're safe, making sure that 232 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.960 they'll last for two hundred thousand miles or one hundred 233 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:42.879 thousand over bumps and potholes and extremes of temperature, and 234 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:47.200 safe in a crash, and that that compounds the problem massively, 235 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.679 and you've got to make sure the charges and temperatures 236 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:53.360 balanced across the whole thing. So the difficulty is really 237 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:55.200 at the pack level much more than it is at 238 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:59.919 the cell level, and that's really where where the single 239 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.440 biggest area of Tesla's expertise, although I should point out 240 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:05.440 the Tesla also has we designed to build the motor 241 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:08.240 and the power electronics, and then the software that manages 242 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:10.279 the whole thing, so that those are important too, But 243 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.840 the battery is the single most important thing. And the 244 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:17.320 Tesla battery pack to reference to gasoline, it weighs about 245 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.000 one thousand pounds and it has the energy content of 246 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.440 two and a half gallons of gasoline. So so that 247 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.840 means you've got to have a lot of charges. Well, 248 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.080 what that means is that but there's there's an advantage 249 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.200 that that. That's because the the consumption of that energy 250 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:36.759 is much more efficient in an electric car. And this 251 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.440 and this is I'll get to. You know why why 252 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.919 is the Tesla roads twice as efficient as as a Prius. 253 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:44.480 Which is obviously not as sports car? Right? 254 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:49.440 And the reason is because an electric motor is fundamentally 255 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:52.720 super efficient at turning energy into motion. 256 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.159 So a good electric motor. 257 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:57.519 Such as the one that we have in the Tesla Roadster, 258 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.919 is about ninety percent efficient at turning the Christie into motion, 259 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.240 whereas a gasoline internal combustion engine is somewhere typically in 260 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:07.879 the range of around seventeen or eighteen percent. Most of 261 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:12.240 what it does is generate heat. So even though it's 262 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:13.960 only two and a half gallons gasoline, that two and 263 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.960 a half gallons of energy content goes really far compared 264 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.000 with you know, if you had. 265 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.799 If that was okay, compared to the Priest, but also 266 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:25.080 compared to the new GM volt, Right, how does it 267 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:26.679 do in comparison with the volt? 268 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.000 The vault is a different architecture it uses. 269 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:32.120 It's a plug in hybrid architecture, so it's a I 270 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.720 think about a forty miles or so battery back what 271 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:39.519 they say, and then there's an engine with a generator 272 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.000 that allows you to go beyond the forty miles, right, 273 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.600 and whereas ours pure electric and the strategy that we've 274 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:53.080 decided to hew to is a pure electric strategy. And 275 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.799 I mean, I've been criticized sometimes for responding to questions 276 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.960 like yours to explain why we've gone to electric, and 277 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:02.919 then people have taken that to be an attack on 278 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:04.960 on on the Vault, which is is not the case. 279 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:06.960 I I hope the Bolt succeeds, and I think it 280 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.519 can be a pretty good car kind of I don't 281 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.960 take this as an attack U totally. It's it's it's 282 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.960 not but that. But I just wanted to to put that. 283 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.919 And what I hope to do in this conversation with 284 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:21.480 you is figure out what it is you've done, because 285 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:23.559 you've got a fair amount of attention, so figure out 286 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.440 why you're not further along than you are, or figure 287 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.120 out why you are and what your expectations are to 288 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.559 do when and where is the game for you. 289 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:34.440 I think it's taken a while for the industry to 290 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.240 come around to this point, but I think it's it's 291 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.759 largely at this point, it's it's it's almost become conventional 292 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.799 wisdom that the future is electric cars. The only question 293 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:47.480 is this interim period, of this transitional period. But if 294 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.960 you look at the pace of battery improvement, it's clear 295 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.279 that that's what I mean, it's inevitable the future will 296 00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:54.480 be entirely electric. 297 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:57.159 And the iron of all this conversation is that in 298 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.399 the last year, a year before it's bankruptcy, General Motors 299 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.399 had announced that the bold you know, it was. 300 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.320 The key to their future, right as an holm Bill company, right, yeah, exactly. 301 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.759 I mean one area of Christism I think that it 302 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.320 is valid regarding Jim is have. 303 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:16.440 Them come to that conclusion. 304 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:18.399 By the way, well, they should have probably done a 305 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.840 prius or something like that. But I think if you know, 306 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:21.360 they had the e. 307 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.600 V one right right exactly, which didn't work, didn't work, 308 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:27.120 but didn't make it for reasons I'm not clear, right, 309 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:29.080 and you know as a marketing success. 310 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.919 Yeah, Chris Pain did a movie Who Killed the Electric 311 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:33.639 Car about it, and it was sort of trying to. 312 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:34.360 Viiscia that issue. 313 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.759 But I think it's it's notable that in that movie 314 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.000 it shows that the customers who had the EV one, 315 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.759 the cause had to be taken away from them and crushed, 316 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:46.320 and they held a candlelight vigil. 317 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:46.720 Right. 318 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:49.519 If you have people that really love a product to 319 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.039 the degree that they're willing to hold a candle lit 320 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.240 vigil for it, that that says, hey. 321 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.279 Maybe you should make an EV too. It certainly does 322 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:56.080 say that. You know. 323 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:00.519 So the car that I drove today coached to two, 324 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:01.799 I think, I mean, I think it was a roaster 325 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.320 before this, this is right, second iteration of it. 326 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.519 Yeah, came came through production. 327 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.879 What year the first roaster number one, the first first 328 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.840 production roster which was fully deplotment of transport. 329 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.559 Legal and all that sort of stuff at all the standards. Yeah, Yeah, 330 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.440 it was Februar of last year, and that was my car. 331 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:24.039 That was the car, your car meaning what the one? 332 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:27.519 Yeah, and so then you decided immediately to make improvements 333 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:27.879 on that. 334 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:32.559 Yeah, yeah, absolutely it was. It was a little little 335 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:34.559 rough going in the beginning, and we had some issues 336 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:36.960 with some of the powertrain components. In fact, not that 337 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:38.840 not the hard stuff, but the stuff that's sort of 338 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.279 theoretically easier, and you know, we're able to fix those 339 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:45.759 and get get production wrapped up, and now we're at 340 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.240 the point where we're delivering about twenty to twenty five 341 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:48.799 cars a week. 342 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.000 You know that Tata Motors obviously, you know, and I 343 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:58.759 know take for a moment what he's doing in India. Yeah, 344 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.840 developing a little sedan for twenty three hundred dollars none, right, right, right? 345 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:06.759 Where do you put that in the whole equation of 346 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:08.240 where the future of cars are? 347 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.720 Well, I think it's a good idea to have affordable cause. 348 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.160 You know, I think I think we're with the problem 349 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.519 with with something something like like the Nana, which I think, 350 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:21.279 by the way, I'll say a problem. I think it's 351 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.759 a great idea. And Jack Russian is a gentleman. The 352 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.480 skull and all of those are. Yeah, it's hard not 353 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.400 to yeah, exactly. I think where it's going to come 354 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.480 challenging the futures. As the price of gasoline rises, the 355 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.640 cost of acquiring the car is much less of an 356 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.440 issue than the cost of operating in that car, right, 357 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.319 And uh, And I think oil. 358 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.359 Is inevitable, it's already moving back up. And you, yeah, 359 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.160 do you have some assumptions in your own calculations as 360 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.000 to where oil will level off. 361 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.920 I think it will exceed that the numbers we've seen 362 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.640 last year one hundred and forty four. Oh yeah, sure, absolutely, 363 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.000 I think we'll see it sort of approach two hundred 364 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.400 dollars and beyond. 365 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:03.559 By twenty ten, eleven, twelve somewhere. 366 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.319 Now, I'd say, whenever the next boom is so as 367 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.319 they say the next boom is four years from now, 368 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:10.960 it'll be around that around that point. 369 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.039 Of all your businesses, which one do you care the 370 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:13.599 most about? 371 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:18.559 Well, right now my time is split roughly evenly between 372 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.880 Tesla and SpaceX, so it's I guess it would be 373 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.559 pretty pretty even between the two. And that Solar City 374 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.440 is doing great on its own, and the two co 375 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:31.279 founders that are living to Peter Rve have done a 376 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.400 phenomenal job and thankfully it requires very little my attention 377 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:35.880 right now. 378 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.359 The reason to create a sports car a roaster as 379 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.440 the first stage of this is because it attracts attention 380 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:44.200 or what oh. 381 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:46.920 So good, great, great question. 382 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.000 So because I feel often misinterpret why we have created 383 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.319 a sports car because they will say. 384 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.480 You know, the implication will be cars for rich guys, 385 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:58.519 is that I saw the energy from. 386 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:00.359 Right exactly, And they would sort of like that that 387 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.920 I feel that there was somehow a shortage of sports cars. 388 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:04.039 For rich guys or something like that. 389 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.480 And that was the part and not only if you're 390 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.640 if any new technology is expensive when it starts out, 391 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.680 and you can point pretty much anything. And and because 392 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.160 the first thing that that you, the engineers are trying 393 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:18.839 to do is make it work. And then when you 394 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:20.640 made it work, make it work, then you optimize and 395 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.440 new optimize and new optimized. And you look at the 396 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:26.000 early days of computers or cell phones or almost anything, 397 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.440 even the early days of gasoline cars. There used to 398 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.559 be toys for rich people until they were made affordable 399 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:34.559 and mass products. Yeah, and and and and then you 400 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.559 combine them with and and then you combine that with 401 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.519