1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number four hundred and forty one from June seventeen, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:05,240 twenty fourteen. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 2: Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 4 00:00:10,519 --> 00:00:14,119 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 5 00:00:14,119 --> 00:00:20,120 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets old. Our 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,039 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,679 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: When you look at golf club ads, go to the 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,960 website and look up every set of irons online, and 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,759 you always got a picture of a six iron, maybe 11 00:00:34,759 --> 00:00:37,240 a seven. And these guys make every iron of a 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,520 set look like a six iron, because we've been schooled 13 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,640 for years that that's what a match set looks like. 14 00:00:41,799 --> 00:00:43,880 But what we've learned over the last decade with the 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,479 advent of these things called hybrids, that when I get 16 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,240 down below the six and I get to a five 17 00:00:48,359 --> 00:00:51,159 or four, I get into that mid twenties even high 18 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,159 twenties block range. This thing called a hybrid is a 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,840 hell a lot easier way to make a twenty two 20 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,159 degree gop club than to make it look like six iron. 21 00:00:58,439 --> 00:01:01,719 So we replace those low we're loft at clubs with hybrids. 22 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,400 But we still have this nine and P that are 23 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,079 sixteen and seventeen degrees weaker than a six iron that 24 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,439 looked just like our six iron. Well, that's a very 25 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:13,000 different golf club. A six iron in today's world is 26 00:01:13,079 --> 00:01:16,560 about twenty nine to thirty degrees in most cases. My 27 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,640 P is forty four, So that's fifteen sixteen seventeen degrees 28 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,200 between my P and my six. But if I go 29 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,000 fifteen sixteen degrees the other way, I've got a driver 30 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:26,879 or three wood. 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: Short game and wedge questions answered with Terry Kaylor. 32 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 4: This is Golf Smarter. 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Golf Smarter for members only, Terry. 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,799 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, Fred, it's good to be back. 35 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,159 Speaker 1: This question came from Matthew Edwards in Durham, North Carolina, 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,480 and he says, I'm interested in getting some score wedges 37 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,560 and interested in your thoughts on whether those of us 38 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,599 that play blades should replace our nine irons in pitching 39 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,840 wedges with score wedges. I understand the need if you 40 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:04,040 play cavity backs, but I play MP sixty eight's and 41 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,000 wonder if dropping the nine in pitching weg would be 42 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,439 a smart move. I really do not like the existing wedges, 43 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,960 and that is why I'm interested in score Goolf. 44 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 4: I dislike wedge. Are we wedge? We? 45 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 3: I don't. 46 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what he's saying here. He has it 47 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:24,439 in quotes, so I'm not sure we. I dislike it 48 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,840 so much that I bought an extra MP sixty eight PW. 49 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,639 I see his w wedge, I think is what he's saying, 50 00:02:31,719 --> 00:02:36,479 or a sandwich and had it bent to a GW loft. 51 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,479 The vocy I have in the bag at fifty four 52 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,560 degrees feels like an alien compared to the blades. 53 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 3: I'm not going to comment on that last, but you know, 54 00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:53,719 I here my thought, and we know that this scoff 55 00:02:53,759 --> 00:02:56,919 club outperforms anything in the wedge category in the higher 56 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,520 laws forty eight. No, we know that it's er out 57 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,919 performs anything in the thin faced cavity back. And when 58 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,759 I say that, I'm talking about your distance. Dispersion patterns 59 00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:10,319 are about ninety percent built into your god cleven ten 60 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,439 percent your fault. I mean people complain about I can't 61 00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:16,680 control the distance my wedges. I've bought all the top brands. 62 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:19,360 You know, I'm pretty good with my seven six seven 63 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,719 eight iron, but I'm terrible with my nine and pitch 64 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:24,680 it must be me. Well, guys, I'm just going to 65 00:03:24,719 --> 00:03:27,879 give you absolution. It's not you, it's the clubs you're playing. 66 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,439 They throw horribly broad dispersion patterns. Based on our experience 67 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,159 watching them on iron bron you move impact up and 68 00:03:35,159 --> 00:03:38,400 down the face, you're going to get wildly different distance deliverables. 69 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,879 It's not your fault, and Score has a solution for that. 70 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,759 With regard to this listener and your Mizunos, I will 71 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,400 tell you you this. By the full set of scores 72 00:03:51,039 --> 00:03:56,400 hit the nine equivalent and the p equivalent against your Mizunos, 73 00:03:56,439 --> 00:03:58,520 and if they're not better, send them back and we'll 74 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,360 refund that part of your set. How's that. 75 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,919 Speaker 1: That's an amazing offer and one that you've stood by forever. 76 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:08,639 Speaker 3: Well, when you make a product like this, you can 77 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,639 back it up because we have had you know, less 78 00:04:11,639 --> 00:04:14,000 than one percent of the golfers send these clubs back 79 00:04:14,039 --> 00:04:15,960 and say, you know, they just don't work for me. 80 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:19,439 And on about two thirds of those, we've helped them 81 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,399 get the right shaft in their scores and send them 82 00:04:21,439 --> 00:04:23,680 back and then they do work for them. Nobody talks 83 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,160 about shafts and scoring clubs, and people go will always 84 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,639 play steel shafted wedges. That's what I'm ordering. Don't order 85 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,199 your high loft clubs based on what you've always played 86 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,920 in your wedges. Order room based on the iron shafts 87 00:04:35,959 --> 00:04:38,199 you have, because those of the shafts you're used to, 88 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,160 and we want to give you a seamless transition from 89 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:42,800 your six, seven, and eight right on the end of 90 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,079 your set of scores. And we do that by getting 91 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:46,959 the weight and the flex in your shaft match and 92 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,079 the material matched. 93 00:04:49,079 --> 00:04:51,759 Speaker 1: There was a question that actually I saw that I 94 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,199 wanted to come back to because it kind of fit. 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,439 Speaker 4: What you were just saying. 96 00:04:57,519 --> 00:05:00,519 Speaker 1: Somebody here, Stephen Davis of Colorado Springs says, when I 97 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,879 was fitted for irons, they made a big deal about 98 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:06,079 getting the right flex. However, when I purchased wedges, it 99 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,240 seemed like they were all the same flex. Do you 100 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,959 think there's any need for different flexes in those wedges? 101 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,079 Speaker 3: My answer is unequivocably yes. And I was with a 102 00:05:16,319 --> 00:05:21,079 very well known head golf professional, and I won't mention 103 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,480 him because he's on staff for a major brand. We 104 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,560 were doing a fitting with some of his members who 105 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,560 had requested it, and he made the comment, I had 106 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,360 no idea the shaft in the high loft clubs had 107 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,720 that much impact. Wow. And we watch people totally change 108 00:05:34,759 --> 00:05:38,120 their launch conditions, their dispersion pattern and everything by getting 109 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,439 them in the right shaft. You know, we select the 110 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,800 shaft based on the weight match to our profile, our 111 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,639 strength profile, and a flex match to our strength profile. 112 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,279 But you know our clubs that we call wedges or 113 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,639 full smleen golf clubs, they are just an extension of 114 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,759 our iron set. Why would we not want that extension 115 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,680 to be as seamless and as smooth a transition as 116 00:05:58,720 --> 00:05:59,600 we possibly could have. 117 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,639 Speaker 1: M M all right, let's talk about let's talk about 118 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,759 hitting the ball. We've talked about the equipment. Let's talk 119 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,560 a little bit about improving your scoring. Because this is 120 00:06:11,639 --> 00:06:14,720 the place where everyone has an issue. From from low 121 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,079 handicap to high handicap golfers, they all seem to be 122 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,879 asking the same type of shot, you know, having the 123 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,959 same type of problems this one. 124 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 4: Let's see what he says. 125 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,319 Speaker 1: Okay, So the different grit types of grips that should 126 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,959 be using on a chip versus a pitch shot, does 127 00:06:33,959 --> 00:06:36,199 the length of the chip or the pitch shot, change 128 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:36,680 the grip. 129 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:38,519 Speaker 4: What about the grip pressure. 130 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 3: Well, I'm a believer first of ball, and grit will 131 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,399 start the back end of that. The grip pressure, I 132 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,319 think is something that you want to keep as constant 133 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,199 as possible. But the closer the shot, the more delicate 134 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,360 the shot, you really want to hold the club wider 135 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,480 because that gives you more feel and more precision. So 136 00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:01,000 you're going to grip the club lighter on a little 137 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,399 soft pitch over the collar, You're going to fly them 138 00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:05,199 all eight or ten feet, let it run down to 139 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,279 the hole. You're obviously going to hold the club a 140 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,439 lot lighter on that shot than you would if you 141 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,839 were hitting a full eight hor or full five R. 142 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,800 But even then, I'm a big believer in a light grip. 143 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,000 And the vast majority offers hole the club too tightly, 144 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,000 and we grip down because of other pressure, and you know, 145 00:07:22,079 --> 00:07:23,720 we're trying to make sure we don't hit it left 146 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,199 or this or that. But grip pressure being light is 147 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,439 one of the most fundamental things about God. Moving your 148 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,600 hands up and down the grip I think is a 149 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,240 very good idea. When you're the more delicate the shot, 150 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,680 the more precise your impact needs to be and the 151 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,000 club speed needs to be to get that exact carrying roll. 152 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:50,120 You're looking for work slower and get closer to your work. 153 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,279 And getting closer to your work means you move your 154 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:54,800 hands down on that grip. I'm not a big believer 155 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:56,879 in getting all the way down on the steel, but 156 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,319 close to it, and that lets you have you know less, 157 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:04,079 less error because you're, as I say, you're closer to 158 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,600 your work, reflect your knees a little more, you're down 159 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:09,720 a little more, and you're move in that club slower. 160 00:08:10,279 --> 00:08:13,360 So we use a grip that Lambkin bills for us 161 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,480 that we really like because it's an inch longer than 162 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,560 the standard golf grip and it has less taper in it. 163 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,160 So from your normal hand position, you grip down an inch, 164 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,480 grip down another inch, even another inch, the club doesn't 165 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,040 dramatically change the feel in your fingertips, so it because 166 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,200 it's pretty much the same taper. And we really like 167 00:08:32,279 --> 00:08:35,600 that grip because it facilitates scoring range control. 168 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: And that does I mean, obviously it affects the pressure 169 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:42,200 that you have in your hands. That's why so many 170 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,480 guys are putting the fact grips on their putters now 171 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:48,639 because just to loosen the grip, to loosen the pressure 172 00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:49,240 on their hands. 173 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: No, I agree, And you know, one of the trends 174 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,480 and I play one of those, and the smaller size, 175 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,519 but I think it works really well. I haven't gone 176 00:08:57,519 --> 00:09:00,159 to the the real big ones. I just like that 177 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,039 the smaller size of these larger putter grips. But a 178 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,840 trend that we see a lot is people going to 179 00:09:07,919 --> 00:09:10,799 bigger grips in their orange and woods, and I don't 180 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,120 think that's a very good idea because people like the 181 00:09:14,159 --> 00:09:16,240 feeld of the larger grip because they're gripping the club 182 00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:18,399 too much up in their palm. I'm kind of drifting 183 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,159 from that question. But the golf and go back and again, 184 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,360 I'll go back and direct you to mister Hogan's five 185 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,399 Lessons and there's a whole chapter on how to hold 186 00:09:27,399 --> 00:09:30,240 a golf club. And there is one really correct way 187 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,960 to hold a golf club. And it doesn't matter whether 188 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,600 you overlap or interlock or even full finger. The golf 189 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,639 club has to be held in the fingers for the 190 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,080 hands to work properly through impact. And when you get 191 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,639 that big grip and get that club up in your palms. 192 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,960 It is costing you significant yardage because you're taking the 193 00:09:49,039 --> 00:09:53,000 accelerator of your proper hand action. You've just removed it. 194 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,000 And a friend of mine once used the term he 195 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,120 holds it like a ham sandwich. And there's so many 196 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,159 bad grips out there, and this game is impossible to 197 00:10:02,159 --> 00:10:03,960 play with a bad grip. You got on the PGA 198 00:10:04,039 --> 00:10:06,159 to where you do not see bad grips out there. 199 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,879 Speaker 1: And the other thing that I've noticed on the short 200 00:10:10,919 --> 00:10:14,559 game shots the chipping and pitching, not only do you 201 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,240 see a lot of white knuckles. I mean you see 202 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:21,120 people really squeezing, squeezing the grip, and then you can 203 00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:23,320 see it in their shoulders. You see the tension and 204 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,039 their neck and their mouth and their jaw. I mean, 205 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,799 there's clearly a lot there. But I've also noticed that 206 00:10:31,399 --> 00:10:34,759 on the chipping and the pitching, when you're not taking 207 00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:39,440 a full swing, it seems like people tend to try 208 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,240 to sweep the club more than descend on it and 209 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,159 come down on the ball and you know, you know, 210 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,440 get through the ball, and then they don't understand why 211 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,360 the ball releases all the way across the green well. 212 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: People have a missed perception of the two things. One 213 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,000 is this term accelerate through the ball, so you got 214 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,639 more of these jabby type techniques out there. And the 215 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,720 reality of it is it is almost impossible to decelerate 216 00:11:06,759 --> 00:11:10,000 a golf club. You can change the rate of acceleration, 217 00:11:10,639 --> 00:11:14,759 but if the club starts at zero at the top 218 00:11:14,799 --> 00:11:17,480 of the backswing, you know, on a short shot, it's 219 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:20,080 pretty hard to move it fast and then slow it down. 220 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,240 What people do is they start the downswing too quickly. 221 00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:27,320 And the best tip I ever had in my life, 222 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,759 one of the best short game practitioners in amateur golf 223 00:11:29,759 --> 00:11:32,840 I ever saw back at my days at Faroks Ranch 224 00:11:32,919 --> 00:11:36,399 in San Antonio, and Dave was just beautiful around the greens, 225 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,639 and we had this delicate surgeon's touch, and his simple 226 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,679 swing thought was take the club back slowly to the 227 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:45,399 end of where I think it needs to go, the 228 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,320 end of the backstrope, and then I feel like gravity 229 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,279 just lets my hands and my arms and the club 230 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,120 drop into the golf ball. He didn't think about accelerating 231 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,639 at all because he just thinks gravity. He said, right 232 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,759 before I take it back, I just think gravity, And 233 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,000 that is his tempo thought and it's really a if 234 00:12:04,039 --> 00:12:07,960 anybody's having trouble with their short pitches and their chip shots, 235 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,000 it's a pretty good swing thought to mess around with. 236 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,919 And you know, we get this accelerate through the ball 237 00:12:15,039 --> 00:12:17,399 so ingrained. Well, if I start at zero and I 238 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,080 get to the ball at two miles an hour, I 239 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,200 still accelerated. 240 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: The other thing I've come to my own personal realization is, 241 00:12:32,159 --> 00:12:36,000 especially on the short game, is that when I'm taking 242 00:12:36,159 --> 00:12:40,519 not a full swing, that if I keep my wrists, 243 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,759 my left wrist, my forward wrists, you know, from breaking 244 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,799 from and keeping the back of my hand towards the 245 00:12:49,879 --> 00:12:52,840 target and not following through all the way and coming 246 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:59,039 up high, has a huge impact on the direction of 247 00:12:59,080 --> 00:12:59,960 my chipping. 248 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And the easiest way to think about chipping and 249 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:08,159 pitching is that as you start into your down swing, 250 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,000 the back of the left wrist passes the ball before 251 00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:14,399 the clubhead gets to it. And if you always make 252 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,039 sure that happen. I don't like to think about hitting 253 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,200 down on the ball, but if you if you make 254 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:22,960 because I think that that's changing my hope for I 255 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,320 don't want to hit down on the ball. I want 256 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,159 to hit a golf shot, and I want to make 257 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:28,080 a swing. I don't want to hit the ball at all. 258 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,600 I don't want to hit anything. I want to take 259 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,840 this club back and through in an orientation that's going 260 00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:35,399 to make the ball do what I want it to do. 261 00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:38,480 And if you always just think about the back of 262 00:13:38,519 --> 00:13:41,600 the left hand gets past the if there's a plane 263 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:43,639 of glass at the golf ball, that back of that 264 00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:46,000 left hand breaks that paint of glass. That clubhead doesn't 265 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:49,120 break it. It's already broken when the clubhead gets there. 266 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,600 A little different, a little different pane of glass example 267 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:54,759 than the one used in five lessons that talk about 268 00:13:54,759 --> 00:13:57,519 swing plane. And I'm talking about what gets to the ball. 269 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:06,639 Speaker 1: First, good thank you question from Matt in Brentwood. How 270 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,759 do we know which scoring club to use? From the sand? 271 00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:13,679 A very frequent question. Are different types of sand a factor? 272 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,039 Speaker 3: Well, different types of sand are a factor in bunker play. 273 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,879 The tour pros don't have to deal with that because 274 00:14:19,879 --> 00:14:22,399 they play tour qualities and every week, but the rest 275 00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:25,399 of us do. And you know, I to me, when 276 00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:28,039 you walk into bunker, I walk into the bunker typically 277 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,000 with two clubs in my hand, and it might be 278 00:14:30,159 --> 00:14:32,519 my fifty five and fifty eight If it's a shorter 279 00:14:32,559 --> 00:14:35,000 bunker shot, it might be my fifty one and fifty five. 280 00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:38,159 If it's a longer bunker shot, I've hit bunker shots 281 00:14:38,159 --> 00:14:42,120 with my forty seven, but all of the score soul 282 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,480 designs are designed to make them a good bunker club. 283 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,440 And I look at the bunker shot as how far 284 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,000 do I need to carry it? How far do I 285 00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:50,200 want it to roll out? And I don't want to 286 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,000 have to take a big old cut in the sand, 287 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,960 and so I will typically if I've got a longer 288 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,399 bunker shot, which typically means you got a lot of 289 00:14:57,399 --> 00:15:00,600 green to work with. On a longer bunker shot, I 290 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:03,840 very often will lay open a fifty one or you know, 291 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,919 or even a forty seven and make them just the 292 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,120 same bunker swing i'd make with a fifty eight. On 293 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,440 the shorter shot, it's going to come out lower, it's 294 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,480 going to roll out more, and you know, to me, 295 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:18,879 getting up and down out of bunkers is you know, 296 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,799 going to be a relative rarity for the average amateur player. 297 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,279 What you're trying to do is not make more than 298 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,039 three shots from that bunker, right, get it on the green, 299 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,919 give yourself a putt somewhere in the twenty foot or 300 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,080 less range. You're not going to hurt yourself. You hit 301 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,120 in the bunker, you know you you've already kind of 302 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:36,080 guns this hole a little bit and get it out 303 00:15:36,159 --> 00:15:38,679 of the bunker. And unless you have a place where 304 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,600 you like to go practice bunker shots an hour or 305 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,399 two a day, you know getting up and down out 306 00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:44,799 of the bunker is going to be the exception rather 307 00:15:44,879 --> 00:15:48,039 than the rule. I mean, the best guys on tour 308 00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:50,519 two thirds and they do this for a living. 309 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, let let's let's get our expectations in 310 00:15:55,879 --> 00:15:58,360 check here, because we are not tour players, and we 311 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,200 think that we have all those shots in our bag 312 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,000 because we saw somebody on TV do it. 313 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 3: Right, if you played, if I would tell your listeners 314 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,639 all of it, if you played tour bunkers, and we'd 315 00:16:09,679 --> 00:16:12,000 all be ten times better bunker players if we got 316 00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:16,320 to play the sand they play, they're watered down. Let 317 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,879 me tell you something I learned the other day. I 318 00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:21,879 didn't know this has been several months ago. Watch the telecast, 319 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,120 and the caddies always go into the bunker on the 320 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:28,039 side of the bunker, away from the hole, and they 321 00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:31,159 rake the bunker directly away from the flag. So the 322 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,799 bunker rake grooves go from that spot right toward the 323 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,480 flag because it's an easier bunker shot to hit it 324 00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:41,759 with the grooves than across the grooves. And do they 325 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:43,960 do that out of courtesy? No, they do that because 326 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,799 they get fined if they rake it any other way. Oh, 327 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,000 I mean, these guys got a lot of advantages. There's 328 00:16:51,039 --> 00:16:54,159 also a tour sand texture. Go watch the guys on 329 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,240 the tour walk in the bunkers. They don't really grind 330 00:16:57,279 --> 00:16:59,639 their feet into the sand because the bunkers are so 331 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:02,759 firm they don't need to. They'll move them a little bit, 332 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:05,839 But you don't see those guys walk into these fluffy 333 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,240 bunkers and bury their feet like we have to sometime 334 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:09,960 and then figure out how to get out of this 335 00:17:10,039 --> 00:17:11,200 dalkol powder stuff. 336 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,599 Speaker 1: Tell me why we burn our feet like that? Why 337 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,079 do we bury our feet like that in bunkers? 338 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,519 Speaker 3: Just so that your feet won't move when you go 339 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:23,599 into your swings. They'll give you a stable platform. 340 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: Okay, Derek wants to know, all conditions being equal, what 341 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,559 do you think has more control for in between distant shots, 342 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:35,240 stepping up on a gap wedge or easing up on 343 00:17:35,279 --> 00:17:36,079 the pitching. 344 00:17:35,759 --> 00:17:40,079 Speaker 3: Wedge neither one. First of all, your gaps are too big. 345 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,319 If you're playing conventional golf club, you have a twenty 346 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,759 five yard fifteen yard gap in there. Probably at the 347 00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:49,400 very least, the easiest way to hit the end between 348 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,559 shots for recreational golfer particularly, but even for tour player 349 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,039 is take the longer club, grip down on a three 350 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,119 quartern inch into swing it. 351 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,279 Speaker 4: That's it, really it. 352 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll cut your gap about in half. Ever, go 353 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,440 amp up a wedge or a short iron, because what 354 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,599 happens is you swing harder, the ball goes higher and 355 00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:12,759 it goes shorter properly. 356 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 4: Uh huh. 357 00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 3: Phil mickelsoning a day about day lost to us opening 358 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,960 by doing that. Actually, now that you think about it, you. 359 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,559 Speaker 1: Know it had a great conversation a couple episodes ago 360 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:22,440 with Dave Stockton. 361 00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 4: Really, oh really, you. 362 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,519 Speaker 1: Got to go back and listen to that one. That 363 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:30,720 was absolutely amazing. That we spent well over an hour 364 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:34,599 together on the phone and it was not just unputting, 365 00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:37,200 and it was definitely a lot of the mental game. 366 00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:40,200 But course management in a way or not, I don't 367 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,880 want to say courseman strategy beyond course management, the mental 368 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,000 the mental side of strategy that I thought was so fascinating. 369 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:51,839 But yeah, and you know, he's just a wealth It was. 370 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,440 It was remarkable. One of the things that really stood 371 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,799 out to me that he said was, I have when 372 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:00,920 I step up to the ball game and I'm looking 373 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,319 at the shot, there is one of two shots that 374 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,880 I have, a low one or a high one. 375 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 3: Interesting. 376 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, you want to respond to that. 377 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 3: You're making down that simple, right, Yeah, he. 378 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:14,759 Speaker 4: Says, I'm either going to make a low shot or 379 00:19:14,839 --> 00:19:16,480 high shot. That's all I'm thinking about. 380 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 3: Wow, I'd love to get a lot more accomplished than that. 381 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: And that's why he's the he's the one who's coaching 382 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,839 Rory McElroy and Phil Mickelson and not you have a 383 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,759 response to you have something you want to say about that. 384 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 3: But you know, I think that makes a lot of sense. 385 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:38,039 And then you know whether he's doing that with the 386 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:40,079 same club or not. But he's narrowing it down to 387 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,119 two techniques, or you could narrow it down to two clubs. 388 00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:44,759 You know, you could go and say, you know what, 389 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:47,279 I have a really good chipping technique, a really good 390 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,039 you know chip pitch technique. And when I get to 391 00:19:50,079 --> 00:19:53,799 a shot, you know, I'm a multi club guy. You know, uh, 392 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,480 you know standing guy was blinking on his last name. 393 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,400 But you know a lot of the teachers are you'll 394 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,039 really get good with your sum standently and and you know, 395 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,559 learn how to hit all the shots. I don't think 396 00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:09,400 there's a wrong approach. My approach is I'm a recreational player. 397 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,359 I don't play as much as I want to. I don't. 398 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,079 I don't have that kind of command over my fifty 399 00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:16,960 five or fifty one anymore. And I go up and 400 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,000 I look at it, it's like, you know what club 401 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,839 with my chipping stroke, my basic learned stroke is going 402 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,799 to get the flight and the rollout that this shot demand. 403 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,720 And if it's you know, use of fifty eight, I 404 00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:31,720 hit a fifty eight. If it's use of you know, 405 00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:34,720 forty three, I'm gonna chip with a forty three. And 406 00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:39,359 on a lot of shots that I run to, it's 407 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,799 like you wide sided the green. You're four or five 408 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:44,720 feet off the fringe, but it's really not puttable and 409 00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:47,759 the pen is sixty feet across the green. Well shot 410 00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:49,319 that I learned when I was a little kid that 411 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,240 I still use a lot is I basically put it 412 00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:53,799 with a foreign. I take my foreign, I take my 413 00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:56,160 putting stands for my putting grip. I grip it lighter 414 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,799 because the foreign is lighter than the butter. And I 415 00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:01,000 set the club up where it's more up on its toe, 416 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,319 and I just basically put it and it gets it 417 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,720 just enough loft flight over the edge of green. It 418 00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:09,640 rolls out pretty much like a putt wood and you know, 419 00:21:10,079 --> 00:21:11,920 get it within five six feet the whole or better. 420 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: Well, that works well when you have the uh your 421 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,119 chip has the flag all the way on the other 422 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:19,720 side of the green. 423 00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 4: You've got to so you're gonna want this ball to 424 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:22,640 roll you right. 425 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: You want the ball to be on the ground as 426 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,599 long as possible, but you got to get it onto 427 00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:26,240 the green first. 428 00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:28,759 Speaker 3: I gotta get on the green because if I if 429 00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,920 I hit that long, hard putt through the collar right, 430 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,440 and the collar isn't really smooth. Now, when you go 431 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,279 to the US Open next week at Pinehurst, I was 432 00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:38,599 out there a couple of weeks ago. Fabulous plays. They'll 433 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,279 be putting from all over the place because they're only 434 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:42,240 gonna be two cuts at Pinehurst. They're gonna be a 435 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,799 green cut and a fairway cut. That's all it's gonna be. 436 00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:46,920 There's no deep rough at Pinehurst. It's gonna be wonderful. 437 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,440 But you know, but if you have a good smooth surface, 438 00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:52,400 your best, but your worst put's probably gonna be as 439 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,599 good as your best chip. But if you do have 440 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,599 to get it over some scruffy stuff or even a 441 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,839 sprinkler head or something like that, that that putt with 442 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,759 a foreign or even a four hybrid, it's a good shot. 443 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,960 You can go spend five minutes with it around your 444 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,599 putting grain and get a feel for it and put 445 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,400 it in your arsenal. 446 00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: I actually recently that happened to me. The I was 447 00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:14,559 on the fringe, but the ball was setting just up 448 00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:18,839 against the taller grass right the rough there. So my 449 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,440 putter just couldn't cut through that, and so I pulled 450 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,319 out my four hybrid and hold it. 451 00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:29,519 Speaker 3: I mean, well, that fabulous. And will say that's the 452 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,960 place you want to use that belly wedge. But let 453 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,839 me tell you, unless you practice that belly wedge, man's 454 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:38,000 and it's a wonderful shot. Don't get me wrong, man, 455 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,160 you need to practice that because the ball comes off 456 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,079 a lot hotter off the edge of the sandwidge than 457 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,440 it does off the face of a putter, a lot hotter. 458 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,880 And if you're hitting that little belly wedge shot and 459 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,440 you're playing for it to be really really hot, and 460 00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:53,200 you swing a half an inch low, three quarter of 461 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,880 an inch low, you just hit your little wedge put 462 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:01,400 about four feet. Yeah, if it goes that far. Yeah, yeah, 463 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,599 and you might double hit it. 464 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: Now explain, I'm not exactly sure what you mean my 465 00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:06,880 belly wedge belly. 466 00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: Where you set the way the ball's up against the collar, Yeah, 467 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:12,440 you can't get anything on it. So you take your 468 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,319 sand wedge and you just hit the ball right in 469 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,200 the equator with the with the leading edge. 470 00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:19,519 Speaker 1: Oh I see, I see, okay, okay, yeah, I could not. 471 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,319 I would not have the confidence to pull that one off. Yeah, 472 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,680 that has got to be you really got to practice that. 473 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 3: Yeah you do. So. 474 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,799 Speaker 1: Now let's take the scenario of your your ten feet 475 00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:41,920 off off the green and yet the flag is only 476 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,240 a few feet You know, you don't have to go 477 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:46,000 all the way, you don't have to roll it forever, 478 00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:49,119 but you definitely got to get the ball in the 479 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,279 air to get on the green because there's a sprinkler 480 00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:53,480 head in your way or something. 481 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,599 Speaker 4: But you don't want the ball to roll far. 482 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,319 Speaker 1: So why what is the difference in that shot versus 483 00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,799 what you talked about your four iron? 484 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:02,759 Speaker 3: Well, I think there you're go in the opposite. You 485 00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:05,599 need high loft on the club, as Dave Stockton said, 486 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,640 and you like it to stop pretty quickly. The biggest 487 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,880 problem that people do with that shot. First of all, 488 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,240 short shining yourself is not the way to shoot its score. 489 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,000 So you want to keep those two a minimum. But 490 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,880 chances are that shot, you know, you might have it 491 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,720 where the green's going to kind of run away from 492 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,160 you possibly, but you know, six feet long of the 493 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,960 hole is just as good as six feet short of 494 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,759 the hole. So make sure you don't get so cute 495 00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:31,000 with it as they say that you don't it and 496 00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:33,759 have that shot over again. It doesn't have to stop 497 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:39,440 short of the hole. And so on that shot, you know, 498 00:24:39,559 --> 00:24:41,799 typically you want to lay the face open a little bit, 499 00:24:42,039 --> 00:24:43,640 and you want to pick the club up a little 500 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,359 quicker to get a little steeper angle of descent, and 501 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,279 look at the back edge of the ball right with 502 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,200 the ball and you know, right at the spot of 503 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,559 the ground right behind the ball and drop that club 504 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:55,279 again with gravity, drop that club down to that slot 505 00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:58,319 and and you know, with a little bit of follow through, 506 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,359 it should pop up for you. But again, that's a 507 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,160 shot you need to practice. And what's really a good 508 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,000 little exercise late in the afternoon. Just take your you know, 509 00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:08,200 a couple of wedges, your gap in your hand or whatever, 510 00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:10,680 and go out around. You know, you don't have to 511 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,799 be on a green, go the driving range, get you 512 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,200 a bag of balls and nobody's over there, and just 513 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,279 chip around, hit little different shots, see what swings produce, 514 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,160 what ball flights, and chalk those up to memory. Learn 515 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,440 what your golf club will do. You know, you can 516 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,039 get a bag of balls and go out to the 517 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,640 range and the far end of the range, if it's 518 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,039 not crowded, chip around on the tee line, and then 519 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:31,599 go hit them all. Get you some practice in. 520 00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: You gave me a tip years ago that I still repeat, 521 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,279 I still think is one of the great ones, and 522 00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:40,759 that would be looking at the front of the ball, 523 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:42,119 aiming for the front of the ball. 524 00:25:43,599 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a big believer in that with most of 525 00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:48,799 your shots, you know, keeping kind of folks and not 526 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,240 just look at the ball. Look at the front edge 527 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,759 of the ball that decide toward the target, and it 528 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,279 makes your contact crisper. It helps me gets fine. It's 529 00:25:57,279 --> 00:25:59,400 the old am small miss small thing. Let me look 530 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,400 at the front edge ball because i want ball first 531 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,880 contact the shot that I was just talking about, and 532 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,559 I'm going to shift my focus over to the back 533 00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:07,519 of the ball on that one. If I'm in the bunker, 534 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:09,400 I'm going to shift my focus to a spot behind 535 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:09,720 the ball. 536 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 4: Love that tip. Love that tip. 537 00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:15,319 Speaker 3: It really makes for crisper shots. 538 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 4: It really does. 539 00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: It really does, because so many times when you're in 540 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:22,319 that situation, you hit about four inches behind the ball 541 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,480 and then the club face bounces off the ground, hits 542 00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:27,039 the top of the ball and it goes nowhere. 543 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,599 Speaker 3: Either that or the club sticks in the dirt and 544 00:26:29,599 --> 00:26:31,319 the ball didn't move it all. And that's really fun. 545 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 4: That's really embarrassing. 546 00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 3: Oh my. So one of the things, I had a 547 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,200 four foot shot and I hit at zero inches. 548 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 4: No, that's called a practice swing. Y. 549 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: One of the things that people frequently ask about the 550 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:52,400 score score golf clubs is that you don't have a 551 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,519 sand wedge, right, you have the different lofts and again, 552 00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:00,759 explain how the forty one sixty one one works. Score 553 00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:03,640 Golf forty one sixty one works, and then let's talk 554 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,640 about what a sandwige is and why you don't have 555 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,960 a designated sandwich. 556 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, Score forty one sixty one. The 557 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:11,880 name comes from the fact that we make every golf 558 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,319 club from forty one to sixty one degrees, make twenty 559 00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:18,079 one different club heads because over on this set of irons, 560 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,319 your eight iron maybe thirty seven degrees, on this set 561 00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:22,160 of irons of maybe thirty nine, on this set of 562 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,480 irons of maybe thirty eight. And what we want to 563 00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:27,200 do is to be able to exactly gap the short 564 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:29,680 end of your set four degrees for a long hit, 565 00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:32,000 or possibly even three for a shorter hit, or maybe 566 00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:34,720 five degrees. We want to give you the exact gapping. 567 00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:38,279 So if you have a thirty seven degree eight iron, 568 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,079 your prescription is probably forty one, forty five, forty nine, 569 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,319 fifty three, fifty seven. Well, nobody makes those. I don't 570 00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:47,079 want to go bend around on a golf club. These 571 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,480 are my precision tools, so we do make them, and 572 00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:54,880 it lets us have infinite control over your gaping to 573 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,640 get you down to these differentials. Between clubs that give 574 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,480 you what you want. And the reason we don't anything 575 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,599 sand wedge, gap wedgeor whatever, because they're all scoring clubs. 576 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:05,640 I mean, I talked a while ago about walking into 577 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,559 a bunker with a forty seven and a fifty one. 578 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:10,039 I got a long bunker shot. Those that's v sole 579 00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:12,799 design that we have that's been proven for twenty five years. 580 00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:16,880 It works regardless of a loft. I mean, we were 581 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,039 out messing around a day hitting flop shots with a 582 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,279 forty three. I mean, who thinks about hitting the flop 583 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:24,480 shot with a nineer? You know, but you can do that, 584 00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:26,519 and it gives you another shot if you're willing to 585 00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:28,920 go play around with it in experiment with it. But 586 00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:31,160 you know, the idea is, if I have a real 587 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:34,039 close bunker shot, not much green to work with, not 588 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,880 much carey to do the fifty eight or nine sixty 589 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:39,319 sixty one, that's a great golf club for that because 590 00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:40,839 it's going to pop up a little higher and stop 591 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,319 a little quicker. But if I left it down and 592 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,440 it rolled back maybe to the middle of the bunker 593 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:46,880 and the pins up in the middle of the green, 594 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,000 and I got a thirty or thirty five yard bunker shot. 595 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,319 I got to put a pretty big cut on it 596 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:54,240 with that fifty eight, and I don't want to make 597 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,200 that big a cut on it because if I catch 598 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,720 it a little thin, it's over the green and out 599 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:00,640 of bunds or whatever back there. So that shot, I 600 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,839 may take a fifty five or even a fifty one 601 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,440 and just make a more control swing, Let it come 602 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,000 out lower and run across some of that green instead 603 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,319 of trying to fly it all the way to the hole. 604 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: Explain to me again, you talked once about why. I 605 00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:19,000 remember specifics of the conversations that we've had, but we've had. 606 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,599 Speaker 4: So many conversations. That's probably why. 607 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: But the loft difference between what I think you explained 608 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:32,440 the driver to the five iron versus the scoring clubs different. 609 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, exactly. You know when you look at golf 610 00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:36,960 club ads out there, go to the website and look 611 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,319 up every set of irons online sold, and you always 612 00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:41,319 got a picture of a six iron. Maybe a seven 613 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,400 used to be a five back in the old days 614 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,880 before loss for chain. But and these guys make every 615 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,720 iron of the set look like a six iron, because 616 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:50,960 we've been schooled for years that that's what a match 617 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,960 set looks like. But what we've learned over the last 618 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,640 decade with the advent of these things called hybridge, that 619 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,480 when I get down below the six and I get 620 00:29:58,519 --> 00:30:01,079 to a five or four, I get into that mid twenties, 621 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,759 even high twenties prickarly low twenty loft range. This thing 622 00:30:05,799 --> 00:30:07,720 called a hybrid is a hell a lot easier way 623 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,000 to make a twenty two degree golf club than to 624 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:11,960 make it look like six iron. You know, three irons 625 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,000 are really hard to hit. I'm sorry, They're really hard 626 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,359 to hit for anybody. And so we've replaced those lower 627 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,160 lofted clubs that are only six or eight degrees stronger 628 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,880 than a six iron. We replaced those with hybrids. But 629 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,400 we still have this nine and P that are sixteen 630 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,279 and seventeen degrees weaker than a six iron that looked 631 00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:33,599 just like our six iron. Well, that's a very different 632 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,160 golf club. The illustration you referred to is a six 633 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,480 iron at today's world is about twenty nine to thirty 634 00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:44,799 degrees in most cases. Okay, so my P is forty four, 635 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,440 so that's fifteen, sixteen seventeen degrees maybe between my P 636 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640 and my six. But if I go fifteen, sixteen degrees. 637 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,960 The other way, I've got a driver or three wood, 638 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,200 so I've got on the six iron down, I've got 639 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,200 a driver, hit a three wood, hit a small dollar 640 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,200 head with a five wood on it. I got a hybrid, 641 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:04,200 maybe two hybrids, and then an iron and then my 642 00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:07,200 six iron. But the other way, I've got four clubs 643 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,200 that look just like my six iron, the seven, eight 644 00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:11,640 nine pitch, and then three or four clubs that just 645 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,559 looked just like a nineteen fifty nine wedge. I got 646 00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:18,279 two head designs for everything from thirty to sixty degrees, 647 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:22,279 and I've got five head designs from thirty to twelve degrees. 648 00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,640 There's no logic to that whatsoever. But you know, only 649 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,599 on a couple of occasions have companies said maybe a 650 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,680 match that of iron shouldn't match at all. But they 651 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,880 never were there with commitment. You know, if you believe that, 652 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,799 then don't make any that do. That's what score golf. 653 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,440 So in your score golf set, there's forty one to 654 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,319 sixty one degrees, there's twenty one degrees. There's seven different 655 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,680 head designs. The weighting changes every three degrees, aloft each 656 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,079 three degrees, there's another head design to take you down 657 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:56,839 the next three, so we optimize weight distribution for the 658 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,759 I got exact loft of that golf club so that 659 00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:03,640 you at better trajectory control, which is distance control. And 660 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,720 you know the short end of the set, your misses 661 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,799 are long and short mostly and if your misses are 662 00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:10,720 left and right the club, the club didn't have anything 663 00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:12,799 do with that. That swing path and clubhead at face 664 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,359 ankle long and short, the club had a lot to 665 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,640 do with that. But we've all been taught it's our fault. 666 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,680 Score Golf, it's absolution. It's not your fault. You can't 667 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,559 control your distance. 668 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,759 Speaker 1: Well again, everything that you've you've offered your advice, it's 669 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:33,279 it's amazing how the insight that you have on the 670 00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,799 game as but you come from the manufacturing side, from 671 00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:40,920 the design side of clubs. I you know, I used 672 00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:45,319 to uh have you know I played Mizuno clubs as 673 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,359 irons as well, But I've replaced that end of my 674 00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,640 my uh set with the Score Golf, And I just 675 00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:57,880 was amazed how you based on the the form that 676 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,119 I filled out on site, Uh, how you knew which 677 00:33:01,759 --> 00:33:04,880 degree losts that I needed and how well it's worked 678 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,160 for me. 679 00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 4: I've made it work for me. 680 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: Well, there's a mathematical science to all this. And thank 681 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,240 you for the kudos about being a golf club designer, 682 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,920 but you know, I'm first and foremost for it. I'm 683 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,119 a golfer. You know, I want to hit it closer 684 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,799 to the whole, just like everybody else. And you know 685 00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:22,000 what drove me to become a designer because I'm not 686 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:26,160 an engineer. I'm a golfer. And like mister Hogan was 687 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,599 not an engineer, he was a golfer, and his constant 688 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,559 pursuit of how to make the golf ball be more 689 00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:34,480 controllable led him to, you know, zero in on the 690 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,799 golf club because that's what you're controlling it with. And 691 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,039 you know, I think that when I have a golf 692 00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:42,519 club in my hand and I have a hard time 693 00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:45,640 flighting the ball down, well I know how to flight 694 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,400 the ball down. That must be the golf club, you know, 695 00:33:48,599 --> 00:33:51,079 because I know how to do that, So why should 696 00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:52,640 I be able to And kind of what drove the 697 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,599 whole development of score forty one sixty one is with 698 00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:00,160 my seven eight nine iron, I can very accurate lee 699 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,119 I've learned over the years, very accurately to change my 700 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,039 ball trajectory and distance to three and four yard increments 701 00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:09,639 in between those clubs. But I never was able to 702 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,039 get there with the pitching wedge and the wedges, And 703 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:15,599 it finally dawned on me, maybe it's not me, Maybe 704 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,320 it's the golf club. So when we put conventional wedges 705 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,360 on our environ and took impact in a one inch 706 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,599 circle around the face, and we found that the ball 707 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:30,000 traveled forty five to fifty feet different between the bottom 708 00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:31,480 of that one inch circle and the top of that 709 00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:34,159 one inch circle. Well, hey, an inch isn't very far. 710 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,480 And then we put these thin faced cavity back irons 711 00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:39,840 on the iron environing, and we found that that difference 712 00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:43,760 distance differential went to seventy eighty ninety eight feet between 713 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,800 high and the face and low in the face with 714 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,480 the same swing from iron environment. That's the golf club. 715 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,599 We've isolated the golf club. It's not the golfer. Like say, 716 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,559 it's not your fault that you can't control your distance, 717 00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:57,519 But Score Golf can fix that for you, and we 718 00:34:57,559 --> 00:35:00,000 will make you as good as you are. How's that. 719 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,079 Speaker 1: They'll make you feel more confident and that is huge 720 00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:11,840 exactly that is huge. So the Ben Hogan I'm want 721 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,079 to get back to Ben Hogan company for a second. 722 00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:19,400 In fort Worth, you've always been in. Victoria is in Texas. 723 00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:21,320 Is closer to Houston, isn't it. 724 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 3: Victoria is down close to the coast, which is you know, 725 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,199 one of my loves beside golf is saltwater fishing, and 726 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,159 Victoria is close to the coast. But when we took 727 00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:35,559 on the ben Hogan opportunity, there was no question in 728 00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:38,079 my mind that Ben Hogan had to go back to 729 00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:41,360 Fort Worth. That's where that company has always been. Just 730 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,400 like moving the packers out of Green Bay, It's just 731 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,440 not something you do, you know. And the ben Hogan 732 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,800 Company is rerooting in Fort Worth. By this time next year, 733 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,079 ben Hogan Irons will be earning a following all over 734 00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:54,159 the golf marketplace. 735 00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:55,599 Speaker 4: I cannot wait. 736 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 3: It's going to be exciting. 737 00:35:57,559 --> 00:35:58,599 Speaker 4: I cannot wait. 738 00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:01,639 Speaker 3: They'll be right there in fort Worth, Texas. 739 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,559 Speaker 1: So how far is it between Victoria and Fort Worth? 740 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,159 Speaker 4: Your driver or you fly. 741 00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:10,679 Speaker 3: I drive and get a lot of phone time in 742 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,320 and so I have second residence. I'm sitting up in 743 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,480 fort Worth and obviously a bunch of my time up 744 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,719 there It's a wonderful city, by the way, and you 745 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,119 know nicknamed cap Pound is the beginning of the West 746 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,480 and wonderful city. Really neat place. 747 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. The best part of the Dallas Fort 748 00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:32,840 Worth area is Fort Worth. 749 00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:36,039 Speaker 3: Yeah. West fort Worth is just a really neat place. 750 00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:39,079 A lot of great golf there, just great people there, 751 00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:41,159 some of the best little restaurants you've ever found in 752 00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:43,039 your life. And it's a really cool place. 753 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, Well, congratulations again, Terry. Really happy for you 754 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,800 and eagerly anticipating what happens in twenty fifteen with Ben Hogan. 755 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,400 And when you guys are about to release something, I'm 756 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,519 going to drag you back in here and let everybody 757 00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:00,239 know once again. 758 00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:03,559 Speaker 3: So that would be great, rad We'll look forward to 759 00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:07,280 that opportunity and to spending more time on the show. 760 00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would also be fun. It's always great to 761 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:15,320 talk to you, Terry. Congratulations, best of luck and thanks again. 762 00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:17,599 Speaker 3: Thank you, Fret. It's always a pleasure.