1 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,160 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:27,640 Federalist and your experience Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:31,600 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,759 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FBRLST, 6 00:00:37,399 --> 00:00:41,200 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,200 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,359 --> 00:00:48,560 Our guest today is a award winning journalist and acclaimed author, 9 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,359 David Harsani, here to talk about his new book, The 10 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,840 Rise of Blue and on how the Democrats became a 11 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:02,560 party of conspiracy theorist. There are many many stories on 12 00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:07,280 this front and many many examples. David, thanks so much 13 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,000 for being here on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 14 00:01:10,599 --> 00:01:12,159 Speaker 2: Oh it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. 15 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: You are a familiar voice. We were chatting about this 16 00:01:14,599 --> 00:01:18,239 before we got on the podcast today, but really in 17 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,280 zoom terminology or radio terminology or just down the hall 18 00:01:22,359 --> 00:01:26,280 of course, you are co host of the fabulous podcast 19 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:28,640 at the Federalist with our very own Molly Hemingway. 20 00:01:29,159 --> 00:01:29,799 Speaker 2: You're wrong. 21 00:01:31,159 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you are not wrong about Blue 22 00:01:34,599 --> 00:01:38,480 Anon and the rise of the conspiracy theorist. You note 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,920 in this excellent new book, which you'll be available just 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,200 about everywhere, the left has been consumed by a uniquely 25 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:51,560 dangerous and delusional brand of conspiracy theories, and unlike those 26 00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:55,640 on the right, the left's conspiracy theories are rarely kept 27 00:01:55,719 --> 00:02:00,519 in check by mainstream institutions. We have seen that play 28 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:03,640 out more and more over the last few years in 29 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:09,120 this country. Let's begin with how did you get to 30 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,960 this point where you said, I need to alert the 31 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,319 public of what's going on here, presumably because the accomplice 32 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:17,120 media is not. 33 00:02:18,879 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's part of it. I I you know, 34 00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:26,759 I started thinking about how there there's generally a consensus, 35 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,080 at least in the media and maybe in other places, 36 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:34,759 that the right is always more susceptible to conspiracy theories, 37 00:02:36,439 --> 00:02:43,159 to paranoia, to you know, to believing misinformation and disinformation. 38 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:47,240 But the truth is that the left, probably starting in 39 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,919 the two thousands, has been just as just as open 40 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:57,680 to those you know, cultural forces, and in many ways 41 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:00,639 are more dangerous like you you just quoted me, in 42 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,919 the sense that they take a conspiracy theory a cynical 43 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,240 person like let's say the Clinton Hillary Clinton campaign and 44 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,759 the DNC will invent the Russia collusion conspiracy, but they 45 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,840 launder it through media. Media polishes it up, calibrates it 46 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,039 to seem plausible, brings in, you know, experts who were 47 00:03:20,039 --> 00:03:23,280 supposed to believe, who we used to trust. Intelligence, you know, 48 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:29,000 former intelligence agency heads and so forth, spreads it through institutions, 49 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:34,400 through you know, becomes embedded in their conversation as reality. 50 00:03:34,439 --> 00:03:38,039 So it's very difficult to debunk those kind of things 51 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:40,840 when you have all those forces against you. Whereas on 52 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:43,360 the right, I'm not saying they aren't conspiracy theories. We 53 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,240 know that there is no one's immune from them, but 54 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:49,000 quite often it's Alex Jones on the fringe. And I'm 55 00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:52,520 not saying his you know, listenership or whatever isn't too 56 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,560 big and all that, but he is kept on the 57 00:03:55,599 --> 00:03:59,439 fringes of our political conversations, whereas things like the Russia 58 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:02,360 collusion hot folks are not. And that's just the conspiracy theory. 59 00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:07,000 Then there are you know, other cultural and political forces 60 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,120 that I would call paranoia, you know, and that's a 61 00:04:11,159 --> 00:04:13,879 little bit different. I guess we can talk about that later. 62 00:04:14,199 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, obviously This is a very clever play on words. 63 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:24,279 Blue anon associated with QAnon and that became the boogeyman 64 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,839 for everything didn't it after January sixth. It's just representative 65 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:35,439 of what the corporate media, the Pravda press has done 66 00:04:35,439 --> 00:04:36,199 in this country. 67 00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, a few years back, you'd have stories 68 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,879 about how QAnon had taken hold on the right, and 69 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,680 it would you know, you take a deeper dive and 70 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:51,079 it would be something like Republicans are you know, concerned 71 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,600 about sex trafficking or something, you know, something some you know, 72 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,519 some small part of what QAnon was about, which is 73 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:02,839 just off the crazy stuff. But then in the next 74 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:05,480 segment they'd start talking about how, you know, Donald Trump 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:11,120 was a Russian asset, so, you know, and people believed it. 76 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,600 I might be getting the numbers slightly wrong, but sixty 77 00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:17,120 seven percent or something like that of Democrats believed that 78 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,800 Russians had actually tampered with the vote totals. Not that 79 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:24,319 they had had some Facebook ads that may have changed 80 00:05:24,319 --> 00:05:26,360 someone's mind, but they went that they went in and 81 00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:28,959 they had changed the vote totals. Wow, but that is 82 00:05:28,959 --> 00:05:31,879 not new if you go back to two thousand and four. 83 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,800 In two thousand and six, two different polls found that 84 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,759 over fifty percent of Democrats believed that George Bush had 85 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,480 known that nine to eleven was going to happen and 86 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,079 let it happen for some personal gain. So, you know, 87 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,759 we don't talk about it as much but the left 88 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,319 and there are cynical people involved who spread these things, 89 00:05:50,319 --> 00:05:53,519 but there are also many credulous people who believe these 90 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,759 things is just as you know, just as conspiratorial. 91 00:05:58,319 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: Well, let's be fair, there are people on the right 92 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,480 who believe George W. Bush knew about nine to eleven 93 00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:05,480 and benefited as well. 94 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, well, yeah, the things have changed. 95 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,360 There's a there's now a faction on the right that 96 00:06:11,439 --> 00:06:14,040 to me sound like Michael Moore used to sound basically 97 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,839 yeah so, but and let's you know, since I brought 98 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:21,759 Michael Moore up, you know, you have conspiracy theorists here 99 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,560 on the right. But Michael Moore made a move made 100 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,759 movies in the two thousands that were celebrated at the 101 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,199 Oscars that we need more money than any other documentary 102 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,920 that politicians democrats held as great works of art that 103 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:43,439 are completely batso nuts, right, and and we're totally mainstream, 104 00:06:43,959 --> 00:06:46,519 So you know, It's just another example of how things, 105 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,720 you know, how can how they're just as conspiratorial or more. 106 00:06:49,759 --> 00:06:51,639 Speaker 1: Davi But you know what's funny about that. I remember 107 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,319 when Fahrenheit nine to eleven came out, and I remember 108 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:59,439 the buzz in the newsroom that I was working in, 109 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,959 and somebody had suggested, Hey, let's have a movie night, gang, 110 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:06,399 let's head on over to the theater and we'll all 111 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,600 watch Fahrenheit nine to eleven. And I remember three quarters, no, 112 00:07:11,279 --> 00:07:14,160 probably more than that. And it wouldn't surprise you, but 113 00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:18,399 at least three quarters of those reporters that walked out 114 00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:23,600 of there were like, Wow, that's so powerful, Oh my god, 115 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,279 what are we dealing with? And the resistance movement began 116 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,279 right there. But you're right, I mean, that's the sort 117 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:34,079 of stuff that hit. That sort of nonsense. The Michael 118 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,920 Moore propaganda has been celebrated as fact and honored as such. 119 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:41,920 But he's not alone, is he now? 120 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: And you know, you can go back to the two 121 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,560 thousands where today George W. Bush is celebrated as this 122 00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:52,800 great statesman, but then he was constantly being called a Nazi, 123 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,319 you know, and stuff like that. But you know, and 124 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,639 we just went through a whole election where the entire media, 125 00:08:01,279 --> 00:08:05,079 many you know, in higher education, you know, and and 126 00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:07,399 and other institutions in the past that we used to 127 00:08:07,439 --> 00:08:10,759 somewhat trust that talked about Donald Trump as if he 128 00:08:10,839 --> 00:08:13,519 were a Nazi and that fascism was coming, that the 129 00:08:13,639 --> 00:08:17,079 Handmaid's Tale was about to happen, uh if you won 130 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,800 the election. And I think a lot of people who 131 00:08:19,839 --> 00:08:21,839 do that are cynical, But I also believe a lot 132 00:08:21,879 --> 00:08:25,360 of Democrats believed that some of them even picked up 133 00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:28,199 guns and tried to kill the president, you know, the 134 00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:33,679 the Republican you know, candidate for the presidency twice. So 135 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,960 and again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able 136 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,080 to say what you want. I'm not trying to chill speech, 137 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:41,919 but we have to think about how if you have 138 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:46,240 this paranoiic view of the world where you where, where 139 00:08:46,279 --> 00:08:50,639 you're convincing people that if the other party wins your 140 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:52,919 you will be stripped of all agency, you will lose 141 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,000 your right to vote, you will lose your right to 142 00:08:55,759 --> 00:08:58,320 you know, whatever, you know, all your rights as a woman, 143 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,039 and so on, that you're going to act out in 144 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:06,519 ways that are unhealthy for a democratic you know, in 145 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:07,960 a free and democratic nation. 146 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: No doubt about it. I mean, these sorts of things 147 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,799 have consequences, and as you noted, that has been the 148 00:09:14,919 --> 00:09:20,039 narrative from the left, from the Democrat Party in this country, 149 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,840 and from the corporate media that it's all happening on 150 00:09:23,879 --> 00:09:27,240 the right, and you know, these consequences. I remember you 151 00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:33,000 writing at the Federalist, how many different columns about Democrats 152 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,679 talking to us and lecturing us on turning down the 153 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,240 cooling the temperature. You know, that's their turning down the 154 00:09:40,279 --> 00:09:44,639 temperature of rhetoric. And you know the but the heat 155 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,360 was coming and we saw the dangerous consequences of all 156 00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:52,480 of that in a field in Butler, Pennsylvania in July. 157 00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:56,720 And again I'm not saying that, you know, we need 158 00:09:56,759 --> 00:10:01,120 to go through and silent speech. I'm just saying, first 159 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,320 and foremost, there's a hypocrisy that's built in from the 160 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:12,600 left on this, from the bluinon pedlars, and those things 161 00:10:12,639 --> 00:10:16,759 do indeed have consequences. Let's go back. Though you mentioned 162 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:19,320 that this has been going on for a long time. 163 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,559 I think more people understand that today the conspiracy theorist 164 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:28,600 from the left, particularly after this election. But when did 165 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:35,480 this all really begin, if you will, in the modern day, 166 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:38,200 what it is today? Did this come out of the 167 00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:42,360 move on dot org movement? What can you trace a 168 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:43,279 starting point? 169 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 2: Well, the starting point is ancient Greece. I know what 170 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,679 you mean in modern times. As you mentioned, I would 171 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,000 go back to I start my book with Hillary Clinton 172 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:58,200 appearing on the Today Show in nineteen ninety eight on 173 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,759 January twenty seventh, when the story had broken about how 174 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:06,360 her husband had had an affair with a intern at 175 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:09,519 the White in the White House, and she talked about, wait, 176 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:10,840 well what happened. 177 00:11:10,919 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: I am not familiar with this story. 178 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just going over it again because wait, wait. 179 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm getting a dry cleaning bill over here. I'm sorry, 180 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,320 go ahead, I apologized. 181 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: We might have some young people listening, so I just 182 00:11:25,879 --> 00:11:28,159 want to make sure we understand. So she came out 183 00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:30,639 and spoke about a right wing conspiracy. It's almost like 184 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,039 a conspiracy about a conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory about 185 00:11:35,039 --> 00:11:39,960 a conspiracy. She claimed that there had been all these 186 00:11:40,159 --> 00:11:45,039 dark forces, you know, gathering to bring down her husband's presidency. Now, 187 00:11:45,039 --> 00:11:46,720 of course it turned out it was true, as all 188 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:50,440 the stories about all the women were true. But she 189 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,240 kept talking about these dark forces working in the shadows, 190 00:11:55,240 --> 00:12:00,360 and Democrats began to take that up. And I'm sure 191 00:12:00,159 --> 00:12:02,200 you'll notice that when you write a column or you 192 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,679 have an opinion on the left, they know there's very 193 00:12:04,759 --> 00:12:07,879 rarely any debate about what you're saying. What happens is 194 00:12:07,919 --> 00:12:11,120 they play the man. They'll say, you are a Russian stooge, 195 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:14,039 you are bought by big this or big that. You're 196 00:12:14,159 --> 00:12:17,399 just you know, the the racial society. You're a racist, 197 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,440 you're a misogynist. You know, this is just the Federalist 198 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,840 Society talking, or Project twenty twenty five. There's all this paranoia. 199 00:12:25,879 --> 00:12:28,879 It's a paranoid style of politics that you know hosted 200 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,720 or in the sixties said was part of the you know, 201 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:34,120 Bircher movement on the right and so on. But I 202 00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:35,840 think that it's happening on the left. I'll give you 203 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,600 an example of the most ernicious kind or maybe the 204 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,000 most insidious kind of paranoia that they spread. It's the 205 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:48,440 idea that that black people that there's a systemic racist 206 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,320 country here where we all try to keep black people down, 207 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,480 where we suppress their vote when it's easier to vote 208 00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:56,440 now than it ever has been. In the history of 209 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,720 Earth anywhere probably, or that white police eastmen, you know, 210 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:04,799 are all around the country are hunting young black men 211 00:13:04,799 --> 00:13:08,480 because they want to kill them. These ideas are paranoiic 212 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,600 and they erode, you know, our society in ways that 213 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,000 are very serious, and there's no truth to either. I'm 214 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,720 not saying that there aren't any racists out there. I'm 215 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,519 not saying there isn't a bad cop out there. I'm 216 00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:22,600 not saying that there isn't someone summer is trying to 217 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,240 stop someone from voting. I'm saying it's not part of 218 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,279 who we are. It's not the systemic and anyway. So 219 00:13:29,399 --> 00:13:31,639 that's the kind of paranoia I'm talking about. It's more 220 00:13:32,159 --> 00:13:36,639 I wouldn't call it subtle, but it's more complicated than saying, oh, 221 00:13:36,759 --> 00:13:40,399 there are aliens you know outside or whatever, you know. 222 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,840 But they're also more dangerous than the usual conspiracy, harmless 223 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,840 conspiracy theories that a lot of people believe. 224 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, at least with the whole alien thing, it's it's 225 00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:53,559 only the you know, the guy out in you know, 226 00:13:53,639 --> 00:13:57,440 in the hills of Kentucky who's being probed. This is 227 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:04,559 a national front and it has again consequences on the 228 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,799 Republic and how we deal with the world as well, 229 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,559 and the world deals with us. You note in the 230 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:17,440 book some very alarming statistics. You alluded to one before, 231 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:20,399 but I want to get into these. A recent poll 232 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,960 found nearly twice as many Democrats as Republicans believed the 233 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,639 Holocaust is a myth, Dear Lord, after October seventh, twenty 234 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:38,279 twenty three, just an absolutely amazing point in history in 235 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,159 America right now. Historically, Democrats are more likely to be 236 00:14:42,519 --> 00:14:45,799 nine to eleven truthers. As you noted, Democrats have been 237 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,840 accusing Republicans of stealing elections since Reagan defeated Carter, and 238 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:56,360 we have been dealing with those election deniers. And then 239 00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:58,679 on the other side of that is I have liked 240 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:02,759 to call them the election integrity deniers. And despite their 241 00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:07,080 law signs declaring science is real, Democrats are twice as 242 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:13,399 likely to believe in astrology as Republicans. With all apologies 243 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,000 to Nancy Reagan, these are amazing numbers. 244 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy you brought up the election denialism. Obviously, 245 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:30,440 we spent years being not of Republicans being accused of 246 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,519 election denihalism. Now I'm again there are people who are 247 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:35,440 nuts I'm not going to deny that. But there are 248 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,919 many people who have legitimate concerns and when an election happens, 249 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,559 they take legal recourse or you know, or ask legitimate questions. 250 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,759 And there's nothing wrong with doing that in a real democracy. 251 00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:49,320 If you want a healthy democracy, you have to be 252 00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:52,519 able to do those things. But the truth is that 253 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:56,480 if we do talk about election denialism, it's the Democrats 254 00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:59,960 who have been doing it forever. Ask any major Demos 255 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,919 who won the election in two thousand. Every one of 256 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,360 them are on the record and will tell you that 257 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,960 it was stolen from al Gore by the Supreme Court, 258 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,960 even though there have been I think three independent recounts 259 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,159 in Florida, all of them showing that George Bush expanded 260 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:20,200 his vote total from what had been counted. Everyone forgets now, 261 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,600 but in two thousand and four, every single major Democrat 262 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,679 gave credence to the idea that there had been something 263 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:32,039 hinky going on in Ohio with voting machines and so 264 00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:35,960 on in suppression of the vote. Then, obviously, in twenty sixteen, 265 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,000 that's one of the most successful election denial efforts in history. 266 00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:44,759 Donald Trump could barely govern because we were enveloped with 267 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:48,600 a conspiracy theory, and then you can read stories today 268 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:49,960 in the New York Times. The New York Times will 269 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,679 print any kind of conspiracy theory about an election if 270 00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:57,399 it's coming from the left. There's a big story last 271 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,240 year or two years ago. It was about how Ronald 272 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:02,799 Reagan had actually stolen the nineteen eighty election because he 273 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,319 had a secret deal with Iran where they would not 274 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,799 release the hostages and would help him get elected. He 275 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,559 wanted a landslide. It's idiotic to think that was the 276 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,680 only issue Americans cared about at the time. But tons 277 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,039 of Democrats and tons of aggressives believe or believed that 278 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,279 Reagan stole that election. They The only reason there's only 279 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,599 a few conspiracy theories going on right now is because 280 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,599 I think Trump want so decisively. If it had been close, 281 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,799 they would have been acting just as many Republicans had 282 00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:36,880 acted in twenty twenty. 283 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: How much can we blame the view for this? 284 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 2: All of it? All of it. I mean, to me, 285 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:48,960 that is a microcosm of all that's wrong with how 286 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,200 we talked about politics. I mean, it happens in an 287 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,440 incremental way, so sometimes it's not so obvious, but we 288 00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:59,599 live in an idiocracy. A lot of people look at 289 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,920 that why that show and treat it, you know, with 290 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:07,839 a level of seriousness or and the people on it 291 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,640 are are idiots. I mean most of them are just idiots. 292 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,279 So I don't know. You got me inventing about the 293 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:14,880 view now. 294 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: I think we need an entire other show about this. 295 00:18:19,559 --> 00:18:21,559 But I'm sure you and Molly will take care of 296 00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:25,480 some of that in the not too distant future. This 297 00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:29,279 is an excellent book and an excellent examination of where 298 00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:33,359 we are in politics and culture and the intersection they're in. 299 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:40,599 Speaker 3: If you don't have great credit, could a Trump policy cancel. 300 00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:41,039 Speaker 1: Your credit card? 301 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 3: The Watched Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski 302 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:46,880 Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 303 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,279 the economy and how it affects your wallet. Trump and 304 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,440 Bernie you want to collaborate on capping credit card interest rates. 305 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:54,880 But credit card debt is a non re course loan. 306 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,359 They can't repossess your dinner or your vacation. Whether it's 307 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,559 happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting 308 00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:01,240 you financially. 309 00:19:01,319 --> 00:19:01,839 Speaker 2: Be informed. 310 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris 311 00:19:04,079 --> 00:19:08,599 mccowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 312 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: Our Guest Today and the Federalist Radio Hour. Award winning journalist, 313 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,200 acclaimed author David Arsani. His new book is The Rise 314 00:19:19,279 --> 00:19:24,039 of Blue Anon. How the Democrats became a party of 315 00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:32,359 conspiracy theorists. We have people David languishing in Gulag jails 316 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:34,359 in Washington. 317 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: D C. 318 00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:38,079 Speaker 1: Because of these conspiracies. Can we talk a bit about 319 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,079 Gen six and all that, you know, came out of 320 00:19:43,799 --> 00:19:49,079 those conspiracies from the left, which were based on, you know, 321 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:53,759 some fringe conspiracies on the right. But again the word 322 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:56,920 keeps coming up, there are consequences for these things. 323 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 2: Well, obviously I believe it least that a lot of 324 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,839 the Jan sixth people who are roaming around in Viking 325 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,400 helmets are kind of cuckoo and believe a lot of 326 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,960 Natzi things about the world. But the idea, so I 327 00:20:12,599 --> 00:20:15,200 think that was an embarrassing event for this country for 328 00:20:15,319 --> 00:20:19,000 many reasons. But the thing is it was a political riot. 329 00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,680 It was not a coup d'etas, as all the left 330 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,519 would like you to believe. There is no way that 331 00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:27,960 the Viking shaman or whatever his name of this was 332 00:20:28,039 --> 00:20:30,359 going to take the you know, it was going to 333 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,160 take power and run the US government. No one believes that. 334 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:42,400 So the hysteria created around something like that was, you know, again, 335 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,839 just a cynical effort to make all Republicans who had 336 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,480 nothing to do with that riot at all, and honestly, 337 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,200 most of the people who were there that day protesting 338 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:57,039 had nothing to do with it, to make it appear 339 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:03,039 as if Republicans were on a jihad against American democracy. 340 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,000 It just simply isn't true. But yet that became in 341 00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:11,599 many ways the center, centerpiece, the central argument of the 342 00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:16,720 Democratic Party since twenty twenty or twenty twenty two, at 343 00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:20,599 least when Biden gave that speech about how everyone who 344 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,799 disagreed with him was a semi fascist, which means half 345 00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:24,559 a fascist. 346 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,039 Speaker 1: Was have you ever heard a half a fascist? They 347 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:33,440 are interesting people. I was in Jersey one time, met 348 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,920 a three quarter fascist. That cat was something else. But no, 349 00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:39,519 just right right. 350 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: I don't like those guys. They can't commit, you know 351 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:44,759 what I mean, you have to fully commit a fascism. 352 00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: Exactly fascist or don't even get into the conversation exactly exactly. 353 00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: And they were making these arguments while at the same time, 354 00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:57,279 wanting to pack the court, wanting to get rid of 355 00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:00,839 the Electoral College, wanting to you know, under you know, 356 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,359 complaining about the Senate, you know, diffusing of democracy, you know, 357 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,240 doing all you know, abusing executive power and ignoring the 358 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,799 Supreme Court, spreading conspiracy theories about the Court being bought 359 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:20,759 by billionaires. All these things actually undermine American democracy. And 360 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,039 yet that was their whole case. Now people didn't fall 361 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:30,400 for it, I think because you know, after the Russia 362 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,480 collusion thing, after COVID, I think COVID was a big 363 00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:38,119 moment as well. Everyone stopped listening. I just don't think 364 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,799 people trust these institutions anymore. It's not a good thing 365 00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:45,319 because we actually need good journalism. We need people, you know, 366 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,839 looking into what the powerful are up to, even if 367 00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:52,920 the powerful are Republicans. But if today the media came 368 00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:55,880 to you and said Donald Trump did X, even if 369 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,720 it was true, I don't think anyone would believe it. 370 00:22:58,079 --> 00:22:59,920 And that's not good for the country either. And it's 371 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:06,920 fault of these lunan types, honestly, because they've lied so 372 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,440 many times, they've spread so many conspiracies that no one 373 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,119 believes anything they have to say. Anymore. 374 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,519 Speaker 1: Well, you noted it, and I think this is a 375 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:22,359 powerful period of time, the effects from the COVID pandemic era, 376 00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:27,839 the effects from the lockdown, the real hit to confidence 377 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,279 and trust in our institutions, particularly in our health and 378 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,680 science communities. But you know, you talk about conspiracies. We 379 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,640 had people telling us again to follow the science. People 380 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,759 in positions of authority, follow the science, don't question the science. 381 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:53,240 The science was in many cases terribly wrong, and it 382 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:58,559 was used as a cudgel against our civil liberties. I 383 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,000 think Americans remambered all of that enough did certainly in 384 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,680 this last election. But I know you go into it 385 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,880 in your book. But the kind of conspiracies that sprang 386 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,559 out of this health crisis, if you. 387 00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 2: Will, Yeah, I think it began the science. A lot 388 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:27,960 of science scientific community became more partisan because of client 389 00:24:28,079 --> 00:24:32,839 climate change and the hysteria surrounding climate change, where I 390 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,720 believe they convinced themselves that it was okay to lie, 391 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:42,839 to scaremonger as long as you were pushing people towards 392 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,519 whatever goal you had. And I think that that bled 393 00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:47,400 into COVID in a lot of ways and then just 394 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:52,240 blew up. Obviously, there's no science that you follow that 395 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,880 says it doesn't matter what the science says that allows you, 396 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,960 that rationalizers or justifies you shutting down a church you 397 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,200 and the latterly by the state. There's no exemption for 398 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,759 healthcare crisis in the First Amendment, no matter what anyone 399 00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:09,640 tells you. And obviously they were lying about how that 400 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,680 worked anyway. So yeah, I mean, I think that was 401 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,759 the moment. I think it was one of the worst 402 00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:17,839 moments in American history. It sounds like hyperbole, but I 403 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,519 really believe that was the moment COVID where the where 404 00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:30,279 we where trust was broken, probably irreparably, where the government, 405 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,720 not just you know, the government used that power to 406 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,160 to just totally ignore the constitution of ways they probably 407 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,400 hadn't in a very very long time, certainly not in 408 00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:44,279 modern times. And it's going to be difficult to get 409 00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:46,240 back from that. And on the tails of the entire 410 00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:49,480 Russia collusion thing, you know, I don't know, it seems 411 00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:51,759 like it's going to take many years for anyone to 412 00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:55,920 trust health care professor, you know, healthcare the you know, 413 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,400 government health officials, or even or meet or many most 414 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,799 of our institutions or higher ed or you know, I 415 00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:07,039 can't think of any institution other than perhaps the Supreme 416 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,720 Court in my mind, that actually functions properly right now 417 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,079 and is trustworthy. 418 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,559 Speaker 1: To the roots of this. I'm curious what you think 419 00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,119 about this. You mentioned, you know, late nineties modern day 420 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:23,039 Blue Anon movement, so to speak, and I think about 421 00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:32,359 the now generations of this political ideology and quite frankly 422 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:40,440 conspiracy taught in our public schools. How much do our 423 00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:45,799 educational systems play into this, particularly on the consumption end. 424 00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's that's a problem in numerous ways. First 425 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,519 of all, you know, just outside of my book and 426 00:26:58,839 --> 00:27:02,640 the Paranoid and all that, simply that we have young 427 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,839 people who are completely uneducated at civics. I think that's 428 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,920 a massive problem. Not because I think that if you 429 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,799 taught them how it was important to have a diffused 430 00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:14,680 democracy in federalism, they'd be like, WHOA, yeah, that's right. 431 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,640 But they don't even understand. They don't even understand the debate. 432 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,240 They don't they cannot comprehend why you wouldn't believe that 433 00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:26,519 a majority should be able to you know, squash or 434 00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,880 lord over a minority. They simply can't understand it because 435 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,200 they think they have the upper hand. I mean, maybe 436 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,200 this popular vote, which is a non existent thing that 437 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,799 we talk about, will change their minds with Trump. But 438 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,799 in general, I just I find that they are incapable 439 00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:45,359 of having that debate. But then it's a favor you 440 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,400 have this. You know, my kids went to a school 441 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,160 district in Maryland near Washington. They had to read Tanasi 442 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,200 Coats books, the sixteen nineteen Project is there, which this 443 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:02,279 paranoid revisionist history that you know, so fictitious, and they're 444 00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:08,000 taught a lot of terrible ideas, and those ideas obviously, 445 00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:12,599 I believe, you know, spring forth, many of these conspiratorial views. 446 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,279 You mentioned the Holocaust before. But just think about how 447 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,400 much open anti Semitism there is right now on the left, 448 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,000 where it's always been. Karl Marx was an anti Semite, 449 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,039 even though it came from a from family of Verbinic 450 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:28,240 Jews and so forth. It's always been inherent there because 451 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,000 of the paranoia about Jewish power, about Jewish success and 452 00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:34,279 money and all of those things. There are people, and 453 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,960 I mean again, it exists on the right too. I'm 454 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,640 not blind to that, but how many, there's a whole 455 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,799 there are, there's the squad is in Congress. They are 456 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:47,519 conspiracy theorists and liars and anti Semites, and they openly, 457 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,759 openly engage in that kind of rhetoric. And not even 458 00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:54,400 the Jewish Democrats on that side will say a word. 459 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,960 The only person who will say a word is John 460 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,400 Fetterman of Pennsylvania. It's allowed to it's allowed to grow, 461 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,079 and it's a cancer on the left because of our 462 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,880 educational system. In a way, the higher education teaches people 463 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,759 provision of histories about Israel and the Jewish people and 464 00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:16,720 Zionism and all that. So it's complicated. But yeah, I 465 00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:19,759 believe that higher education is a huge problem. I think, 466 00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:23,079 you know, my kids are older, but I don't know 467 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:26,039 that I would send them to most of these schools now. 468 00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:28,519 I mean, I think it's better to be an autodidact 469 00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,119 today than to go to Harvard, you know, or Yell 470 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,720 or any of these places. It's just poisonous ideas and 471 00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:37,480 conspiracy and paranoia. 472 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,279 Speaker 1: I felt the same way many many years ago when 473 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:43,440 I was going through the higher ed system and the 474 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:51,279 University of Wisconsin system Milwaukee and elsewhere. And that's why 475 00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:56,920 I'm here. I think, you know, I saw the early 476 00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:00,279 signs of that in the early nineteen nineties, when I yeah, 477 00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:03,519 being told at that time, hey listen, you know you're white, 478 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,039 and you're probably wrong. 479 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,079 Speaker 2: But wasn't it. It always existed, and they were always 480 00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:11,440 you know when I was, when I was, were a 481 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,480 little older than you, but you'd see people with MAO 482 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:19,640 shirts on, for instance, or and probably because my parents, yeah, exactly, 483 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:26,079 these murderers and you know, tyrants, the probably because my 484 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,359 parents defective from Hungary and were very anti communist. I 485 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,599 was always sensitive to seeing that sort of thing. Used 486 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,119 to feel like it was just this sort of small 487 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,319 rebellion against your parents, against society, and that people then 488 00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:42,920 went on into the real world and came to their senses. 489 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,720 People forget, for instance, that the you know, Reagan had 490 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,559 this huge win in nineteen eighty, but a lot of 491 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,079 young people voted for Reagan. They were pushing back against 492 00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:57,279 the sixties and seventies. Nowadays, the craziest people with these 493 00:30:57,319 --> 00:31:02,119 craziest ideas are writing residential speeches for Kamala. You know, 494 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,119 they're not coming to their senses. They're coming out of 495 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,960 school with these ideas because there's no one there and 496 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,200 they're just silent. There's no one there to have a debate. 497 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,000 You can't even have a conservative on campus. It's rare. 498 00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:19,240 So I just feel like there was more open discussion. 499 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,880 I mean, people forget it was the hippies in the 500 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,839 sixties who were like at the forefront of the free 501 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,839 speech movement. Absolutely, I don't think the left wingers believe 502 00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:28,640 in free speech anymore. I really don't. Not as a 503 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,240 neutral principle, they don't. So well, it's all changed, they 504 00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:36,359 certainly have. I mean, we know that Robert F. Kennedy 505 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:41,200 Junior left the party of his uncle, his slain uncle, 506 00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:44,839 and his slain father because that party no longer looked 507 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,359 like the party that certainly John F. Kennedy was leading 508 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,279 in nineteen sixties. 509 00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: So you know, here we are. You raise a good point. 510 00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:58,039 So then are we now at a Reagan eighty moment? 511 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,680 Are we now at Dare I say, a Warren G. 512 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,200 Harding moment of acting normal? Yes? 513 00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:08,559 Speaker 2: Yes, we are actually now Listen, I'm not going to 514 00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:11,200 a lot of people compare Trump to Reagan. I don't 515 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,319 think it's right. I think Reagan was much more ideological. 516 00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:17,480 I think he was a lot smarter than people understand. 517 00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:21,799 I think he thought about these ideas, the market, you 518 00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:25,240 know American greatness all this stuff in a much more 519 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,079 serious way than Donald Trump does. I know that people 520 00:32:28,119 --> 00:32:30,960 don't like to hear that, but I do think that 521 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:34,160 he is in a way like Warren G. Harding in 522 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,559 that he is the candidate of the normy American. I 523 00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:40,799 don't think he's very ideological, and I don't think a 524 00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:44,359 lot of his fans, let's say, in Michigan or Pennsylvania, 525 00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:48,680 care about his policies as much as they care that 526 00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:51,000 he speaks to them in a way that they see 527 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,160 as normal, whereas the other side, you know that ad 528 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:57,759 Kamala is for they them, donald Trump is for you. 529 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,319 Oh yeah, so that was the way most powerful ads 530 00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:05,160 exactly because they then is a microcosm of all the 531 00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:09,640 goofy social science quackery that has you know, that has 532 00:33:10,119 --> 00:33:13,640 infiltrated the Democratic Party and that they're trying to force 533 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,880 feed you. So I think in a way he's different 534 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,359 than Reagan, which is that Donald Trump is anormy but 535 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,400 he tells you a lot of the times what you 536 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,640 want to hear, whereas Reagan, I think, had to change 537 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,200 how people thought about government and government's role in their 538 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,240 lives in a very dramatic way, and it took a 539 00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:36,519 long time from nineteen sixty four when Goldwater ran to 540 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,240 Reagan to do that. Whereas I don't think Trump is that, 541 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,680 you know, big of a change agent. I think he's actually, 542 00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:47,400 like you say, more like Warren Hording, where he's bringing 543 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,319 back some kind of normalcy, which is weird because they 544 00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,759 talk about him like he's this crazy Nazi, but in 545 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:57,160 fact his policy positions are incredibly moderate. Most of them 546 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,880 are very normal. Normal people want the border closed, you know, 547 00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:05,359 normal people don't you want a functioning government. Normal people 548 00:34:05,359 --> 00:34:08,360 don't like law fair, even if they if it's a 549 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,760 candidate that they don't like. So I really do believe 550 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,440 he represents a kind of normal scene, a return to normalcy. 551 00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:17,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that's a great point. Didn't the 552 00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:21,800 Blue and Non movement and all of these crazy conspiracy 553 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:28,000 theorists that the gain currency thanks to an accomplished, irresponsible media. 554 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:33,280 I mean, they're trying to I've always said this, what 555 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,039 we're seeing from the American left today is a war 556 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:41,119 on reality. You know, we talk about the war on 557 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,000 women and the war on this and the war on that. 558 00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:46,840 This really has been an assault on reality. They want 559 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,960 to change the construct of reality. So at some point 560 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:57,679 reality is going to win. And that's another question for 561 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,599 these modern times. Are we at the reality he wins 562 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:01,960 moment in America? 563 00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:07,039 Speaker 2: I don't know if we're there yet, because you know, 564 00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:09,760 you mentioned RFK. You know, I think he's kind of 565 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,360 alone as well. You know, so there are a lot 566 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,800 of looney people around in my view that aren't exactly 567 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,320 in line with reality. But overall, I think you're right Democrats. 568 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,800 Once you know, I'm pretty libertarian about life. You want 569 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,400 to live your life a certain way as long as 570 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,039 they're not hurting anyone. What am I going to do 571 00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:30,199 about it? Nothing? But when when the moment comes that 572 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,760 you demand that I say that a male is a 573 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,840 female simply because they wish it, I can't be participating 574 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,519 in that because it's not reality. If you say, oh, 575 00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:45,280 you know, a fetus is alive whenever I decide it is, 576 00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:48,159 then I you know, that doesn't make any logical or 577 00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:50,840 moral sense to me. So I can't participate in that. 578 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,519 And this goes on across. Like you say, it's they 579 00:35:56,559 --> 00:36:02,239 are attacking reality, and most normal Americans don't like to 580 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,280 be attacked. So same thing where you have a border 581 00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:10,079 district right, filled with Latinos. They o O for Trump, 582 00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:13,840 and one of the view women says, yeah, they're misogynists, 583 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,679 you know, they just will simply can't understand the fact 584 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,480 that even Latinos don't like anarchy on the border, or 585 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:24,719 you know, they don't like to see people suffering when 586 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,760 they come in here because they're you know, you can't 587 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,039 just have this anarchy. It's bad for the immigrants, it's 588 00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:35,400 bad for people who want to be here legally, it's 589 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,320 bad for the people who live here. They just deny 590 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,760 that reality and make it about something that bothers them. 591 00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:44,239 It's very emote. You know, what is that Ben Shapiro 592 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,199 quote where facts don't care about your feelings. They just 593 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,000 try to bend feelings into facts, like you say. So, yeah, 594 00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:56,599 that's that's a big problem as well. 595 00:36:56,639 --> 00:37:01,119 Speaker 1: Again, I might add that the view has really challenged 596 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:07,920 our love and our belief in the First Amendment. But 597 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,039 here we are. The First Amendment was designed not for 598 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,960 popular speech, but to protect the most loathsome speech, and 599 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:17,920 that I. 600 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 2: Was watched, Yeah, I was watching this documentary and I'm 601 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,639 sure maybe you've seen it, but it's gor Vidal and 602 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,480 William Buckley and oh I. 603 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: Love that my best fiend or what is that called? 604 00:37:28,039 --> 00:37:31,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, I forget what it's called. Yeah, but it's excellent. 605 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,920 And listen, I'm not saying that we all have to 606 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,960 sit around listening to the Lincoln Douglas debates whatever, you know, 607 00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:40,920 but I am. But there has been a real drop 608 00:37:41,039 --> 00:37:45,440 in the level of you know, here's what it is. 609 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,000 They all are just pandering. You're pandering to people telling 610 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,760 them what they want to hear. And there's a lot 611 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,679 of group think, and group think that's a place, a 612 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,559 fertile place for paranoia because you're just constantly reinforcing each 613 00:37:58,599 --> 00:38:01,880 other's greatest fear is And that's what I see the 614 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,559 view as you know, or places like that, or big 615 00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:08,400 groups of voters. Even we don't really have any debate 616 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:14,760 anymore because why should I debate Hitler? Right, just call 617 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,280 him Hitler and move on, right. So I do wonder 618 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,000 if that will change. 619 00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:21,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, but there has been a definite in this election, 620 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,039 and we've seen it growing across this country, groups like 621 00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:27,920 Moms for Liberty and you know the players involved, and 622 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,559 it is this I think, this backlash against the arrogance 623 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,199 of the state, the arrogance of the statist of the 624 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,960 regime of this regime, the status quo, whatever that is 625 00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:48,079 of this regime. And I think that arrogance was really 626 00:38:48,119 --> 00:38:51,360 defined in the number one issue still the number one 627 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,639 issue in this election, the economy. And they kept telling 628 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,159 us the Biden Harris administration and their surrogance. They kept 629 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:05,079 telling us, don't believe what you are experiencing at the 630 00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:09,440 grocery store, at the gas pumps, because our data experts 631 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,480 will tell you that inflation is getting under control, and 632 00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:15,639 then you go to the grocery store and of course 633 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,679 that's not true at all in your personal experience. So 634 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,239 how much of that is shaping the resistance, if you will, 635 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,639 to the Blue Anon movement and how important will that 636 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:29,719 be moving forward? 637 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good point. That's another bending of reality. Now, Listen, 638 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,719 I don't people hate to hear this from me as well, 639 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,039 but I just don't think that groups of voters always 640 00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:46,920 know what policy is good for them. I think sometimes 641 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,280 it's an emotional reaction as well. But it's clear even 642 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,360 to me and I am so I'll go to the 643 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,360 grocery store and I will just hand over the money. 644 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,199 I don't even know what anything costs. It could be 645 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,719 one hundred. You know whatever, it is my whole life. 646 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,320 I have no clue. I'm clueless. But even I notice 647 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,639 everything's getting more expensive, right, And then you know, they 648 00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:10,239 do this year to year inflation difference and they're like, oh, 649 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,960 inflation's falling. You know, it's not falling. There's been compounding interests. 650 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,039 People aren't idiots. They see that everything costs more, and 651 00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:20,440 you keep telling them everything's great. It's a big problem. 652 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:21,880 And for them, of course, it was a big problem 653 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,320 that they helped cause this by dropping trillions into the 654 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,960 economy as inflation was starting to bubble up. So but yeah, 655 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:35,199 that's another that's another example of bending reality. But yeah, 656 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,920 I mean, I don't know. I think sometimes I wonder 657 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,440 again if the if people who spread these stories believe 658 00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:44,320 them because they want to, but it just breaks trust, 659 00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:48,679 you know, just keeps breaking trust with the media. There's 660 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,079 there This is another separate topic and you probably know 661 00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:52,480 this as well. You have a lot of people on 662 00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:55,199 beats in this country, at newspapers for a long time already, 663 00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:00,400 at you know, major outlets that really aren't don't really 664 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,280 have any expertise in their beat, that don't really understand economics, 665 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,639 even though they're on that beat, yes, and so they're 666 00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:11,719 always belittling others for not understanding anything, but really they're 667 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,239 not very bright themselves. I notice this all the time 668 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,639 on the Middle East beat, you have people or how 669 00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:19,360 about this the religion beating. People write about religion and 670 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:21,679 at New York Times out they know nothing. 671 00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:27,119 Speaker 1: Without any faith. They write about religion without faith or belief. 672 00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:30,119 Speaker 2: Or yeah, or any kind of deeper understanding about what's 673 00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:33,039 going on. There's kind of contempt actually for religious people 674 00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:37,039 in a lot of the writing. Another bending of reality 675 00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:38,679 that I that I like to point out that it 676 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,800 makes people mad, is are are you know, hey, let's 677 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,679 just start a new denomination among you know, that's a 678 00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:47,400 Catholic denomination that says abortions. Okay, you know you have 679 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,119 a lot of left wingers doing that. You know, you 680 00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:55,960 see churches with you know, rainbow flags outside whatever. Jewish 681 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,079 people have been doing this for a long time. You know, 682 00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:00,519 they just keep it. It's kind of an off road 683 00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:02,519 from the you know, an off ramp from the religion. 684 00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:07,760 But whatever. That's also this weird bending of reality. And 685 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,800 so then they talk about faith in such a demeaning way. 686 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,920 They talk about people who are faithful in the demeaning way. 687 00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:20,119 Kamala Harris, you know, is clearly anti religious. I think 688 00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:22,559 that that's another underrated aspect of this election. Just to 689 00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:26,119 get off topic again, is that she's anti Catholic. I mean, 690 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,000 she's probably anti all orthodox faiths, but it was clear 691 00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:37,039 she trusted judges who were Catholic. She treated what is 692 00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,519 that men's organization in the Catholic Church? 693 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, I. 694 00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 2: Forget, but she talked about them with a little yeah 695 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,079 if columnists. Yeah, and then someone yells Jesus's Lord as 696 00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:52,480 an event and she says, you're at the wrong rally. Yeah, 697 00:42:52,559 --> 00:42:56,320 that is something maybe they should reconsider as well. I'm 698 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,639 not saying they should. All you have to pretend to 699 00:42:58,679 --> 00:43:01,480 be religious, but you know, there are still a lot 700 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,719 of people in this country believe in God more than 701 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,400 most in the Western world. And demeaning those people I 702 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,000 think is a very bad idea because normal people, even 703 00:43:09,079 --> 00:43:14,519 those who aren't religion religious, respect tradition in a way anyway. 704 00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,599 So I think that's a problem as well. Remember, I 705 00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:19,679 couldn't be more I couldn't be more off topic. I'm 706 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:20,360 sorry about that. 707 00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: No, I think it's all on topic quite rankly, and 708 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,840 I think you're absolutely right. I think faith had a 709 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,119 lot to do with this, whatever you think of the 710 00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:32,880 veg Ramaswami. I remember covering, you know, the parade of 711 00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:36,639 contenders and pretenders in the Iowa caucuses leading up to 712 00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:41,199 the Iowa caucuses throughout twenty twenty three, and his message, 713 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,280 I think at some level obviously a populist message, but 714 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,199 he was talking about this void in America where faith 715 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,519 used to be, where community and foundational principles used to be, 716 00:43:54,639 --> 00:43:57,119 and people are filling it with crap, you know, They're 717 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:02,480 filling it with drugs and and sex and all kinds 718 00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:04,639 of different things. And at the end of the day, 719 00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:09,360 they're screaming out for something bigger, bigger than themselves. And 720 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,559 a lot of people get that, and a lot of people, 721 00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:15,480 as you say, are still tied in at least at 722 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,079 some level to their faith, and they felt assaulted and 723 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,840 insulted over the last several years in this country, and 724 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,119 they should have. So that gets us back to your book. 725 00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:30,519 Final question for you. Rust never sleeps, neither does the left. 726 00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:35,760 It has been muted the response to this Trump win. 727 00:44:36,639 --> 00:44:41,440 Do you expect this stuff to these crazy theories and 728 00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:45,800 the more radical notions from the left to get violent 729 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,400 in the coming days and years. 730 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 2: I think because of the how solid Trump's win was, 731 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,000 they're regrouping and rethinking how to approach it. Because obviously 732 00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:04,480 the conspiracies about democracy falling and Hitler, you know, and 733 00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:10,079 trumping Hitler have fallen. But that didn't work. But generally speaking, 734 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,559 right now, just talk about the media for a second, 735 00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:15,039 which drives a lot of this. All the incentives are 736 00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:20,519 wrong because you will get Donald Trump will bring you ratings. 737 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,960 Getting hysterical about Donald Trump will bring you ratings. It's 738 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,079 going to be very hard. It's like catnip. I just 739 00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:28,880 don't think they're going to be able to have a 740 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,199 tempered even you know, unbiased. Look at that you see 741 00:45:33,199 --> 00:45:38,440 it on MSNBC. I've been watching shot in Freud, not 742 00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:43,559 because I enjoy it, but the conversation isn't Wow, Maybe 743 00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:45,960 we shouldn't have called all these people Hitler. The conversation 744 00:45:46,119 --> 00:45:48,960 is why did all these people vote for Hitler? I 745 00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:53,679 don't from the entire culture of the media needs to 746 00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:57,800 be changed for things to change, because, as you there, 747 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,679 if a newspaper runs the wrong opinion or doesn't run 748 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,440 a pro Democrat op ed The entire staff will rebel 749 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,440 against you. Sometimes they'll get you fired, as they did 750 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,519 in the New York Times op ed editor. So you know, 751 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:19,280 these places are filled with activists, not journalists. Again, or 752 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,039 I've said this often, is that it's not that you're biased. 753 00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:23,960 Everyone has an opinion. I think trying to hide that 754 00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:27,599 is kind of a waste of time. The thing is, 755 00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:33,199 you must present your opponent's positions honestly, you must not 756 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,920 be an activist. They do all that, and so I 757 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,239 think they're paranoia in nature, these younger people especially, So 758 00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:43,719 it seems very unlikely to me that they can just 759 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,440 entirely change their culture after one election. But we'll see. 760 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,400 I mean that's just you know, I just don't think 761 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,280 things change that quickly or that easily. 762 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,599 Speaker 1: So you're expecting vagina hats, Yeah. 763 00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 2: I mean that's nuts, right If you wear that, you 764 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:01,679 are not. 765 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,559 Speaker 1: No, it's it's the opposite of nuts. 766 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,760 Speaker 2: Very well done, no, But what I mean yeah, well, yeah, 767 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,519 that was a good one. But what I mean is that, Yeah, 768 00:47:11,639 --> 00:47:14,440 you know, I think most Americans see that as weird. 769 00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:16,760 I think dressing up and in a handmade's tail none 770 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,239 outfit or whatever, I think people will think you're weird 771 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,559 when you do that, and these things are weird and paranoiic, 772 00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:26,079 and most people are not that way, especially because Trump 773 00:47:26,119 --> 00:47:28,960 was already president and none of that happened, so they're 774 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:30,559 less likely to believe it. 775 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing we couldn't believe is when Tim Walls 776 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:40,400 was telling people that JD. Vance was weird, not even yeah, 777 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,119 that was weird. 778 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I am not a huge JD. Vans fan, but 779 00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:46,679 I have to say he was the most normal person running, 780 00:47:46,679 --> 00:47:49,159 and he's probably the most normal person who's run on 781 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,119 a presidential ticket in a very long time. So I 782 00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:56,880 believe his Like he started out with very low favorability ratings, 783 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,480 and I think now he is the highest of all 784 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,119 of all four that ran so well. 785 00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: However you feel about is where he's come from politically 786 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,199 or those sorts of things. He's a bright guy and 787 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,280 he's very grounded, and I think that that was a 788 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,960 calming effect for a lot of people. That was very 789 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,599 helpful to the Trump campaign. But that's a different topic. 790 00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:20,760 This is a great book, and I always enjoy talking 791 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,199 to you. I've told you this before, I mean it sincerely. 792 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,639 You have a standing invitation to join us in the 793 00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:29,079 Federalist Radio Hour to talk about anything you want, particularly 794 00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:29,480 the View. 795 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 2: I think we should we need an episode on the View. 796 00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:34,920 I think we do have a lot to say about 797 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,679 each member of the view. 798 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,159 Speaker 1: You have a lot to say about a number of things, 799 00:48:39,199 --> 00:48:42,320 and that's why I've always always enjoyed talking to you. 800 00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:46,320 And of course you can find this gentleman every week 801 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,760 on You're Wrong with our very own Molly Hemingway. Enjoy 802 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,880 that podcast as well. You can read his book too. 803 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,320 I want to thank our guest today, award winning journalist 804 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,880 and acclaimed author David Harsani, here to talk to us 805 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,159 with us about the rise of Blue Anon, how the 806 00:49:07,159 --> 00:49:10,840 Democrats became a party of conspiracy theorists. You can find 807 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,280 this book wherever you find your books out there. It 808 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,480 is worth your time, worth the read. You've been listening 809 00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:20,400 to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, 810 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,079 Senior correspondent at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. 811 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:44,519 Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the Fray.