Speaker 1: The following presentation is a Del Marvis Studio's production.
Speaker 2: When you look be on the sky, do you feel
Speaker 2: the poll question?
Speaker 1: Why the stories.
Speaker 2: Told and left behind in shadows where the truth we find?
Speaker 2: They built their tails on crafts and lines.
Speaker 1: On theories they stake their designed.
Speaker 3: Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time
Speaker 3: for another edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast. I'm
Speaker 3: your host, as always, George Hobbs. Hope everybody had a
Speaker 3: great weekend. We have a great guest ending by back
Speaker 3: to back guests from Australia this week. A great guest,
Speaker 3: just a plethora of information and looking forward to the conversation.
Speaker 3: Just two quick notes before we get started. Please do
Speaker 3: stop by the website. It is theflat earthfiles dot com.
Speaker 3: The flat earth files dot com. We put every episode
Speaker 3: as a blog post. We have a chat room, we
Speaker 3: have a forum where people leave their thoughts. Please do
Speaker 3: stop by and check it out. And lastly, don't forget
Speaker 3: if you'd like to join the podcast. I think we
Speaker 3: have maybe no Actually we're booked through December, but we
Speaker 3: are starting to book for January. It is fe files
Speaker 3: guest at gmail dot com. Again it's fe filesguest at
Speaker 3: gmail dot com. Without any further ado, we're going to
Speaker 3: bring on today's guest again. As we mentioned it the intro.
Speaker 3: He is from Australia and his name is Carmelo. Carmelo,
Speaker 3: how are you doing today?
Speaker 1: Great?
Speaker 4: Thanks George, thank you for having me on and for
Speaker 4: your kind words this morning. I love your podcast. It's
Speaker 4: always so positive, polite and on point.
Speaker 5: Now I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: And you know, with this podcast, it's really the guests
Speaker 3: that make the podcast. So a big tip of the
Speaker 3: cap to everyone who comes on and you know, spreads
Speaker 3: their message and talks about their journey.
Speaker 5: Okay, so go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 4: I'm a sixty eight year old retired primary school teacher.
Speaker 4: I've been a Christian for nearly forty years and have
Speaker 4: been married to my beautiful wife for over thirty five years.
Speaker 4: We're very blessed to have four wonderful adult children, all
Speaker 4: walking with the Lord and married. We have five adorable
Speaker 4: grandchildren and another on the way, and we attend a good,
Speaker 4: solid Baptist church not far away. As a family, of course,
Speaker 4: we have our standard differences, problems and life issues. We
Speaker 4: live in Logan, which is the city with Brisbane, in
Speaker 4: the southeast of Queensland, about an hour north of last
Speaker 4: week's podcast guest Mark, who I've sent an email to
Speaker 4: with a view to making contact because we go down.
Speaker 1: There a lot.
Speaker 4: So my wife and I love spending time with our family.
Speaker 4: We recently bought a motor home or an RV, and
Speaker 4: we do traveling up and down the coast, mostly at
Speaker 4: this point in between getting it repaired. We love gardening,
Speaker 4: me veggie gardening and my wife the other side, the
Speaker 4: flowering plants and things. We love meeting people, having coffee
Speaker 4: at cafes, eating out, going for walks, especially on beaches,
Speaker 4: although I love bushwalking or hiking up mountains which you'd
Speaker 4: probably call hills.
Speaker 1: So the highest mountain in southeast Queensland is only.
Speaker 4: Twelve to fifty meters or about four thousand feet high.
Speaker 1: I love playing squash. Sorry you want to say.
Speaker 5: Something, Oh no, no, I was just listening.
Speaker 4: Say I told you I go fast. I love playing
Speaker 4: squash and going in the sauna after and it's my
Speaker 4: favorite place to witness the people as it's a captive
Speaker 4: audience and everyone's relaxed in the sauna.
Speaker 1: There's been some very interesting times in there.
Speaker 4: One thing I know for sure is Jesus is faithful
Speaker 4: in every situation.
Speaker 1: His word is trustworthy, He's always good, and I.
Speaker 4: Cannot I simply cannot imagine my life without the Lord.
Speaker 4: I just know where I was going before, and it
Speaker 4: wasn't good. So He's my firm foundation. His word is
Speaker 4: my light, liked my feet, and a guide to my
Speaker 4: path for life.
Speaker 1: I have one caveat is I'm.
Speaker 4: Almost certainly going to use other people's sayings and theories
Speaker 4: without giving them credit, because I've heard so many along
Speaker 4: the way, many of them on your podcast, and I
Speaker 4: can't remember who to attribute them from, so who to
Speaker 4: attribute them to?
Speaker 1: So my story.
Speaker 4: I grew up in a loving Spanish migrant family as
Speaker 4: nominal Catholics, but there were issues due to the Spanish War.
Speaker 4: I went to state schools and then left early and
Speaker 4: did lots of different jobs before training as a primary teacher.
Speaker 1: I looked into the big.
Speaker 4: Questions about this life early on, but I'm afraid partying
Speaker 4: took priority.
Speaker 1: For many years.
Speaker 4: I could talk about God to people, but talking about
Speaker 4: Jesus usually made me uncomfortable, as I felt guilty now
Speaker 4: about when I was about twenty six We would go
Speaker 4: to Fraser Island fairly often. It's a very beautiful island,
Speaker 4: the largest sand island in the world. And on one
Speaker 4: of these trips, we were swimming in the surf, even
Speaker 4: though we knew there were lots of sharks there, and
Speaker 4: one of my friends just disappeared. He was just right
Speaker 4: out in the surf and I called to him to
Speaker 4: come back. He said he couldn't, so I don't think
Speaker 4: I was thinking. I just thought I've got to go
Speaker 4: out there. He's much taller.
Speaker 1: Than me and he wasn't touching the bottom.
Speaker 4: Miraculously I got him in and the rest of us
Speaker 4: just kept partying on doing the things that partiers do.
Speaker 4: But he started talking about God and saying, I know, Oh,
Speaker 4: God's got something to do with this.
Speaker 1: A year later, he's a Christian.
Speaker 4: Another year later I hear the Gospel from him, because
Speaker 4: by this time I was living in the Northern Territory
Speaker 4: and didn't get to Brisbane very often. And then another
Speaker 4: year later I became a Christian in a Pentecostal church.
Speaker 4: And this church believed that each day of the Creation
Speaker 4: week in Genesis one could have been billions of years,
Speaker 4: and Cain supposedly married a Preadamic woman, but only about
Speaker 4: six thousand years ago. At the time, I quite liked
Speaker 4: this explanation, as it seemed to reconcile the Bible and
Speaker 4: the worldly scientific view. Of course, it didn't do either
Speaker 4: very well, as with most compromises. You're probably familiar with
Speaker 4: the day age progressive creationism.
Speaker 5: Yep, absolutely, yeah, okay, And.
Speaker 4: They also believed and taught that the flood in Noah's
Speaker 4: day was only a localized blood.
Speaker 1: I think that made less difference.
Speaker 4: Still, I thought, how is that possible on a globe,
Speaker 4: That's what I was thinking, And the water is just
Speaker 4: going to spill out over the rest of it. But anyway,
Speaker 4: after some time of reading my Bible some years, I thought,
Speaker 4: I'm just not smart enough to understand how to reconcile
Speaker 4: Genesis one and how it works according to the secular
Speaker 4: scientific model, which we apparently believed in sync with.
Speaker 1: But I trusted the church's interpretation.
Speaker 4: And loved the Lord and the people there, and God
Speaker 4: had made some great changes in our lives. I eventually
Speaker 4: became a pastor of a small church in that denomination
Speaker 4: and love preaching and studying God's word.
Speaker 1: More About four years.
Speaker 4: Into that, I got challenged three times in two weeks
Speaker 4: that it might just be six ordinary days and a
Speaker 4: worldwide flood, and I gave the party lines straight up
Speaker 4: and down. But I did think maybe God's knocking up
Speaker 4: the door for me to study this out. So I thought, okay,
Speaker 4: let's study this out. But I got bogged down straight away.
Speaker 4: So one morning, the Lord led me to underline every
Speaker 4: worldwide term of the flood in Genesis six, seven and eight,
Speaker 4: and I just thought God's gone out of his way
Speaker 4: to make it clear.
Speaker 1: It was the whole earth.
Speaker 4: Every creature with the breath of life in its nostrils,
Speaker 4: under the whole heaven.
Speaker 1: So that part was really simple.
Speaker 4: But maybe two months later on very frustrated about the
Speaker 4: days of Creation, I prayed what I now call the
Speaker 4: dangerous prayer, and I recommend it to everyone. It was this, Lord,
Speaker 4: I don't care which way it is. I just want
Speaker 4: to believe the truth and I want to know it
Speaker 4: by the end of to day. And I wasn't being
Speaker 4: presumptuous or anything. I just wanted to get this over
Speaker 4: and done with. So that was nineteen ninety eight, early
Speaker 4: days of the internet searches, and I typed in Genesis
Speaker 4: and creation. And what do you know, we got answers
Speaker 4: in Genesis. I'd never heard of it. I thought, well,
Speaker 4: let's go see. But it's got to be scripture that
Speaker 4: convinces me, not man's clever arguments.
Speaker 1: And oh boy, I was in for a ride the scriptures.
Speaker 4: They brought out Exodus twenty, verse eleven, Moses rings the
Speaker 4: tablets of Stone, written with the finger of God down
Speaker 4: the mountain. That's Exitus thirty one, verses seventeen and eighteen.
Speaker 4: But verse twenty, Exitus twenty eleven says for in six
Speaker 4: days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea,
Speaker 4: and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.
Speaker 4: Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath and hallowed it. I
Speaker 4: just went, oh boy, this is God the Father. This
Speaker 4: is not man or God's secretaries or anything maybe getting
Speaker 4: it wrong. This is God the Father writing this with
Speaker 4: his finger. And then they brought out Matthew nineteen. And
Speaker 4: the funny thing of this is verses four to six
Speaker 4: embossed on the back of my Bible cover from a
Speaker 4: friend who gave me that as a wedding present. And
Speaker 4: Jesus speaks here says, have you not read. He that
Speaker 4: made them in the beginning, made the male and female.
Speaker 4: And I always used to wonder why Jesus chose saying
Speaker 4: in the beginning if Adam was six thousand years ago
Speaker 4: and the beginning of Earth was four billion years ago.
Speaker 1: But of course it wasn't Jesus, it was wrong. It
Speaker 1: was me.
Speaker 4: So that was a very interesting time. And then you've
Speaker 4: sort of stuck with, well, what am I going to
Speaker 4: do with this? So we devoured answers and genesis material
Speaker 4: looking for evidence in the world around.
Speaker 1: Us, and our faith quickly grew, and.
Speaker 4: I no longer feared that someone would come up to
Speaker 4: me with something that was definite proof of macroevolution, like
Speaker 4: and this is one that i'd heard, antibiotic resistance bacteria.
Speaker 4: I thought, oh boy, now that can result from a
Speaker 4: loss of information in the genetic code or were rearranging
Speaker 4: of the DNA. But no new information can come by itself.
Speaker 4: It needs intelligence or intervention to add new information to
Speaker 4: the genome. So we eagerly taught our children this newfound
Speaker 4: truth and all the evidences around us. And one of
Speaker 4: the things I did was I wrote a ten thousand
Speaker 4: word essay, probably three and a half thousand of those
Speaker 4: words were Bible versus in multiple versions.
Speaker 1: I sent it to the church hierarchy and it got this.
Speaker 4: Very quick, short, inadequate, and illogically answered response. I said,
Speaker 4: I spoke to the senior pastor in Canberra, where we
Speaker 4: were based from, and he said, well, you can keep
Speaker 4: pastoring just as long as you don't talk about creation
Speaker 4: or the flood. And straight away the scripture was quickened
Speaker 4: to me. The Word of God is not chained. I
Speaker 4: wasn't prepared to keep pastoring under those constraints, and we
Speaker 4: decided to leave the church.
Speaker 1: And it was just the easiest thing to.
Speaker 4: Do, and we moved to Brisbane, where I'd grown up.
Speaker 4: But we knew the truth. It had been a great awakening.
Speaker 4: We had no doubts, and we felt a lot closer
Speaker 4: to the Lord. I don't know if you know that
Speaker 4: song they say that making up is.
Speaker 1: Hard to do?
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 4: Well I think I've got it here in my heading
Speaker 4: is they say that waking up is hard to do.
Speaker 1: Indeed, I know you're a wrestling fan or word at least.
Speaker 4: When I was a kid, my father built a boat
Speaker 4: for a man whose son worked at Channel nine, where
Speaker 4: world Championship Wrestling was which we used to watch.
Speaker 1: She's a family and just barrack for the good guys.
Speaker 4: Well, I had to go to the toilet and they
Speaker 4: took me through the wrestlers chaine rooms and then they
Speaker 4: all were huddled over each other looking through the window
Speaker 4: at the wrestling.
Speaker 1: I thought, what's this. This isn't right.
Speaker 4: The good guys and bad guys don't mix, and it
Speaker 4: was like, bah, how terrible.
Speaker 1: We kept watching wrestling anyway. They're very good athletes. I
Speaker 1: like what they do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like a movie.
Speaker 3: You have to you know, what do they say, suspend
Speaker 3: disbelief in order to get it? Because even in the
Speaker 3: seventies and eighties you kind of knew that it was,
Speaker 3: but when they come out and say it and you know,
Speaker 3: it takes away. But yeah, for us, I think it
Speaker 3: was nineteen eighty eight. I don't know if you're familiar
Speaker 3: with these names, the Iron Chic and Hacksaw.
Speaker 5: Jim dug In.
Speaker 1: No I know Hogan, yeah, no, hack.
Speaker 3: Saw Jim Duggan. Oh, okay, So they it was a
Speaker 3: good guy and bad guy. They were going through their
Speaker 3: feud and they were travel them together smoking a joint
Speaker 3: and they got arrested and it made news around the
Speaker 3: country that this good guy and bad guy, and these
Speaker 3: were very big figures in the eighties that they were
Speaker 3: riding together and partying together. So that was kind of
Speaker 3: when they started to peel back the layers of the
Speaker 3: onion and people who still.
Speaker 4: I don't know about you, George, I wouldn't like to
Speaker 4: get thrown on the on the map from the.
Speaker 3: Distances they Yeah, the outcomes are predetermined, but they still
Speaker 3: take a beating.
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4: So that's my first waking up. I'll come to another
Speaker 4: one later. But through the years I heard of lots
Speaker 4: of conspiracy theories. Some I believe, but mostly they just
Speaker 4: didn't seem to matter, like keep your heirloom seeds as.
Speaker 1: They're hybridizing all things.
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, I don't know, Okay, big corporations, Preemason's Illuminati,
Speaker 4: Fabian Society, Fabian society in the US.
Speaker 3: Yes, where is it in the UK? I just did
Speaker 3: a podcast on it within the last six months. But
Speaker 3: there's it's up there with the the Trilateral Commission and
Speaker 3: the Foreign Council on Relations, and you hear of.
Speaker 4: All those names. You know, through the years, you hear
Speaker 4: them and think, oh, that sounds interesting. Maybe they are bad,
Speaker 4: but I was too busy working and raising a family,
Speaker 4: and generally I believe the world.
Speaker 1: Was mostly a good place.
Speaker 4: Oh dear, look now, how could I have thought that?
Speaker 4: So a couple of years before we came to a
Speaker 4: literal six day creation belief. Research into childhood jabs revealed
Speaker 4: overwhelming evidence to me that all was not well in
Speaker 4: what we put in our kids' arms. The part that
Speaker 4: really stood out was the personal anecdotal evidence collected during
Speaker 4: this research. Our church was one where there were miracles.
Speaker 4: They were well known and they were well publicized. And
Speaker 4: I'd heard this miracle many times. But when we asked
Speaker 4: the mother about that, she said it was just after
Speaker 4: the child that had his sleeves rolled up. So he
Speaker 4: was twenty months old, this boy, and he died. His
Speaker 4: mother was a nurse. She did the ABC and found
Speaker 4: there were no signs of life. She prayed fervently, and
Speaker 4: he opened his eyes, vomited, and was restored to life.
Speaker 1: And then all.
Speaker 4: These other people tell us stories, similar stories, another one
Speaker 4: that someone had been resuscitated several times, and others less
Speaker 4: serious but nonetheless still significant. So that was another wake up,
Speaker 4: and the years rush on and we come to COVID.
Speaker 4: As a teacher, I was mandated to be vaccinated or
Speaker 4: not work on campus.
Speaker 1: After listening to Creation Ministries. Do you know them?
Speaker 5: I'm not sure if I'm familiar with them or not.
Speaker 4: Well, they split from Answers and Genesis, so they were both.
Speaker 1: They're both were.
Speaker 4: Based here originally, and they're all Queenslanders, and Creation Ministries
Speaker 4: send the Creation magazine worldwide, so they're quite a significant organization.
Speaker 1: But they were very pro vax, and I was listening
Speaker 1: to other pro.
Speaker 4: Vax voices and I was weighing up which one I
Speaker 4: should get to keep my job. I was close to retirement,
Speaker 4: but I didn't think I could survive a couple of years.
Speaker 1: Without work anyway.
Speaker 4: I had someone in my ear telling me not to
Speaker 4: get any So finally I thought, right, I know how
Speaker 4: to fix this. I'm going to go on the government website,
Speaker 4: because at this point I trusted the government, and I
Speaker 4: checked the adverse effects of these vaccinations and that was
Speaker 4: just straightaway, end of story, no vaccination for me. I
Speaker 4: couldn't believe, George how many severe adverse effects and death
Speaker 4: were already recorded in the early days of the vaccinations terrible.
Speaker 1: So yeah, And of.
Speaker 4: Course the naysay is so that correlation and causality aren't
Speaker 4: the same thing, and I agree, But when you've got
Speaker 4: overwhelming figures of it, you just go maybe there is
Speaker 4: correlation anyway, I leave that part out.
Speaker 1: I waited to see what happened.
Speaker 4: Well, yes, I caught fluvord, slept for two days, and
Speaker 4: my doctor gave me a six month exemption.
Speaker 1: Let my boss know.
Speaker 4: And towards the end of my long I took long
Speaker 4: service leap, and towards the end of that long service leave,
Speaker 4: I was given two days a week to work from home,
Speaker 4: doing distant education for kids that learn from home. So
Speaker 4: where was God in all this, waiting patiently to show
Speaker 4: his hands? I started getting nervous as my long service
Speaker 4: need was running out, knowing that we couldn't survive on
Speaker 4: forty percent of my income.
Speaker 1: I prayed about it.
Speaker 5: Sorry, George, Wait, no, no, I was just good, yeah,
Speaker 5: go ahead, Uh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So I prayed about it and I lost
Speaker 4: my spot. I've got lots of notes so that I
Speaker 4: don't go backwards and forwards too much.
Speaker 1: And that day, that's sorry.
Speaker 4: That Sunday at church the visiting preacher prayed for me
Speaker 4: to be at peace.
Speaker 1: Because I was still anxious about it.
Speaker 4: This is the God who gave us a complete peace
Speaker 4: that past understanding when someone burnt her house down many
Speaker 4: years earlier.
Speaker 1: Now I'm not by nature a relaxed fellow. I'm energetic
Speaker 1: and go, go go.
Speaker 4: A house burned out, deliberate arson and we just had
Speaker 4: this peace. It was just irrelevant, but we just got
Speaker 4: on with life. But here, oh, no, forty percent my income?
Speaker 4: How's God going to deal with this? Open my laptop
Speaker 4: on Monday and there's an email from my boss, say,
Speaker 4: and he sent it on Friday, by the way, So
Speaker 4: the answer was already there to the prayer before I
Speaker 4: prayed it, saying I could come on campus if I
Speaker 4: did the rat before coming in every third day. So
Speaker 4: it's the first mention of me being able to come
Speaker 4: to campus, first mention of being able to work again.
Speaker 1: And I didn't lose a day's pay that year. It
Speaker 1: was just like, praise the Lord.
Speaker 4: How good is God just waiting quietly for his nervous
Speaker 4: nelly to come crying I need help more that Look,
Speaker 4: a lot of my colleagues did lose their jobs and
Speaker 4: some of them got them back, but never many many
Speaker 4: many never returned. So I woke up to the scandemic
Speaker 4: through all this, and more recently the evidence of excess
Speaker 4: mortality and serious things like turbo cancers and watching fit
Speaker 4: athletes collapse on playing fields. It's like only people are
Speaker 4: seeing it, but people aren't exposed to it.
Speaker 5: It's all wonderful stuff.
Speaker 1: You go, I was waiting for you to go.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, see, just.
Speaker 3: A couple of things. I do recall the jeez, Creation
Speaker 3: Ministry is international. I do recall now because I think
Speaker 3: the gentleman his name was Carl Wheeland, and he had
Speaker 3: partnered with ken Ham. Because ken Ham is the gentleman
Speaker 3: who runs Genesis. I'm sorry answers in Genesis now ken
Speaker 3: Ham is No, he's the gentleman. I think it's in
Speaker 3: Kentucky that recreated the arc.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, he's there.
Speaker 4: He's a Queensland school teacher, primary school teacher, and many
Speaker 4: of the people that had worked in that organization before
Speaker 4: the split ended up at the school.
Speaker 1: I was in Christian.
Speaker 4: Schooling, so so I got to hear a few inside
Speaker 4: things and just go, oh, I'm glad they're inside and
Speaker 4: people outside aren't hearing them. But you know, things go
Speaker 4: wrong and we need to work through as best we can.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting because our friend who we had on
Speaker 3: the podcast probably a year and a half ago, Josh
Speaker 3: from the Founded Earth Brothers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he went down like him.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he's he's there. They're fantastic.
Speaker 3: He went down there and he did the whole tour
Speaker 3: and the expo, and you know, it's great that Ken
Speaker 3: does support the literal six day you know, creation story.
Speaker 3: But he at the end of the seminar he was at,
Speaker 3: he wanted to ask a few questions about biblical cosmology,
Speaker 3: and they shut him down.
Speaker 5: They won't let him talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed listening to was it Joel a couple
Speaker 4: of weeks ago.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, Joe on your podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lovely spirit. It was just a really
Speaker 1: enjoyable listen.
Speaker 4: But she said she read the book by Danny Faulkner
Speaker 4: waiting to see how he dealt with disproving the curvature calculation.
Speaker 1: And never did in the whole book. Yep. So I've
Speaker 1: got other beats with him, but I won't mention them here.
Speaker 3: And the other thing with Carl Wheeland he was, if
Speaker 3: I remember correctly, he was a doctor, like he.
Speaker 5: Was in the front.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I met with him after coming up
Speaker 4: from Vega to here, because I thought my.
Speaker 1: Future was in in that ministry, and.
Speaker 4: I did support them for a while and went out
Speaker 4: and stood with their speakers and that.
Speaker 1: But my ministry ended up.
Speaker 4: Being in a classroom in a Christian school, and I
Speaker 4: just have.
Speaker 1: Loved that for so long. But I'll go back to
Speaker 1: where I was up to.
Speaker 4: Sure, So generally speaking, at this stage, I wouldn't believe
Speaker 4: in big conspiracies like nine to eleven or learn the landings. Hey,
Speaker 4: I got sent home from school to watch the landing,
Speaker 4: and you know what, I've still got the newspaper from
Speaker 4: that afternoon. I don't know how they got those photos
Speaker 4: back to Earth, George, because there was no connection in
Speaker 4: the middle of space.
Speaker 5: Nobody thought about it. They were just so excited.
Speaker 1: We would office. I look at that now and just laugh.
Speaker 4: But I couldn't buy into those sort of conspiracies because
Speaker 4: I could never believe that lots of people could keep
Speaker 4: a secret that big. I did not understand compartmentalization. It
Speaker 4: was something I was about to learn about. So about
Speaker 4: this time, some friends told us, we've gone completely kooky
Speaker 4: and believe the Earth is flat. Now, I thought that
Speaker 4: was an appropriate way to introduce such such a ridiculous statement.
Speaker 4: I'd never met a flat earther, and I thought the
Speaker 4: Flat Earth Society was a bunch of guys who used
Speaker 4: to use that as an excuse to get together for
Speaker 4: a beer on a Friday night and get away from
Speaker 4: their wives. No one believed that anymore. So I was
Speaker 4: well and truly programmed with everything we hear in your
Speaker 4: program is you're taught to say it's ridiculous to think
Speaker 4: the Earth is flat. Anyway, I came to flat Earth
Speaker 4: kicking and screaming all the way. One day a friend
Speaker 4: told me that she thought the Earth was not a globe,
Speaker 4: and I remember I got angry pretty quickly. But she
Speaker 4: had good insight, which is another way to say she
Speaker 4: took notice of the Holy spirits prompting. Anyway, that counted
Speaker 4: for little with an argument like this. So, being the
Speaker 4: spiritual giant that I was, George, I went straight to
Speaker 4: Google and found their ten best ways to debunk Flat Earth.
Speaker 4: The look I look now, and they go, what a joke.
Speaker 4: At the time, I liked them I thought, this is great,
Speaker 4: I've got her now. But she counted and demolished those
Speaker 4: arguments with ease, even though I didn't accept her arguments.
Speaker 4: At the time, she'd either been studying pretty hard or
Speaker 4: there wasn't much truth or science to these ten points.
Speaker 1: The truth was both.
Speaker 4: There were the usual suspects, pictures of Earth, which turned
Speaker 4: out to be either the.
Speaker 1: Fish eye lenses.
Speaker 4: When I was typing this, when I read back it
Speaker 4: said fishy lenses. I thought, yeah, that's pretty true too,
Speaker 4: fishie or fishy yea, or photoshopped images Fuco's pendulum, which
Speaker 4: it turns out needs someone to get it started. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: and if they were if they were true, George, all
Speaker 4: the cranes we see would have pendulum.
Speaker 1: Motion, indeed, But that's not the case.
Speaker 4: Where we walk down down at the Gold Coast, there's
Speaker 4: a couple of cranes there. When we get there, they
Speaker 4: haven't started work, and the cranes are always still, and
Speaker 4: I like the joke and them like, look, I think.
Speaker 1: They're moving, but they're not. They're just still.
Speaker 4: The regular suspect the curvature of the Earth, which I
Speaker 4: thought i'd seen from an aeroplane, but I really tried
Speaker 4: hard to make me see it, make myself see it.
Speaker 4: It turns out boats going over the horizon and coming
Speaker 4: back can be seen for many, many miles with a
Speaker 4: telescope lens, and I was seeing lots of these in
Speaker 4: an attempts to convinced me the glow model is just
Speaker 4: that a model.
Speaker 1: Only. Oh well, they weren't trying to convince me of that. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Probably the one I enjoyed most much later was and
Speaker 4: you might have seen this. One of the earliest high
Speaker 4: altitude photos was over a place called Mercedes in Argentina,
Speaker 4: and from there I think it was maybe an altitude
Speaker 4: of twenty three thousand or thirty one thousand feet. They
Speaker 4: could see the Andes Well, these things on maps, found
Speaker 4: the distance, did their curve modern calculations. It turns out, George,
Speaker 4: if the Earth is a globe, they would only see
Speaker 4: the peaks above sixteen thousand feet.
Speaker 1: But the article clearly said that they could see the
Speaker 1: Andes mountains.
Speaker 4: There's lots of peaks over sixteen thousand, But you're only
Speaker 4: seeing peaks if the Earth's globe, and they shared a
Speaker 4: foot of the whole and these range. So it turns
Speaker 4: out I had already seen many evidences through my life
Speaker 4: and thought about these things without realizing it that I
Speaker 4: should have been challenging the globe model. One of my
Speaker 4: favorite things going up mountains is to see how far
Speaker 4: I can see and identify landmarks. So during the process
Speaker 4: of examining the Earth, I started measuring these distances using
Speaker 4: the curve calculation of eight inches per mile square or
Speaker 4: points sixty sixty six recurring. But I'm not going into
Speaker 4: six six six. I know you've covered it. Lots of
Speaker 4: times I found the curve model didn't work at all.
Speaker 1: I could see too far. So you know.
Speaker 4: Marks ample last week about seeing surface paradise, Well that
Speaker 4: wasn't enough for me. I go down to the beach.
Speaker 4: I can see those buildings, but that's not far enough.
Speaker 4: I've got to convince hardened skeptics about this. So I
Speaker 4: would keep looking, and in winter you can see the
Speaker 4: next two islands after surface Paradise, called North Stradbroke and
Speaker 4: South Stradbroke.
Speaker 1: You should not be able.
Speaker 4: To see North Stradbroke at the distance it is, but
Speaker 4: there it is plain as day. I even spoke to
Speaker 4: an engineer, I'm one of the lookouts up there, and
Speaker 4: he said to me, no, that island you can see
Speaker 4: is Morton Island, which is even further away.
Speaker 1: I think he might be wrong, but he was.
Speaker 4: An engineer and understood flat what's it called plain surveying?
Speaker 1: He said, oh, no, that that allows the curvature. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't. They don't.
Speaker 4: They don't allow the curvature in that anyway, this is
Speaker 4: a better one.
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with? Ularu in Australia?
Speaker 5: Said that one more time.
Speaker 1: Laru, who used.
Speaker 4: To be known as Airs Rock. It's in the center
Speaker 4: of Australia, a massive monolith. We used to say it
Speaker 4: was the biggest monolith in the world. Apparently it isn't,
Speaker 4: but it's very big.
Speaker 3: The giant formation that looks like maybe it used to
Speaker 3: be a tree. Sorry, the giant rock formation in the
Speaker 3: middle of Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: That one.
Speaker 4: So back in nineteen eighty one or something. I climbed
Speaker 4: it with a whole stack of us. We're on a
Speaker 4: coach tour from where I went to college, and the
Speaker 4: coach tour guide said, see those mountains over there. They're
Speaker 4: in Western Australia. And last year I checked in my
Speaker 4: classroom atlas. Those mountains were over two hundred kilimeters or
Speaker 4: over one hundred and twenty miles away and should have
Speaker 4: been at least a mile under the curvature of the Earth,
Speaker 4: and they were playing to see because the air was
Speaker 4: so rarefied, so very dry.
Speaker 1: There's just no humidity in the atmosphere. Interesting, huh.
Speaker 3: Indeed, And I think back to when, like I've mentioned
Speaker 3: this many times going up to whether it's Pike's Peak
Speaker 3: or the Minitou Manitou Spring incline, which you know you
Speaker 3: could just see forever. And so I want to ask
Speaker 3: you this, Why is it so contentious to speak someone,
Speaker 3: especially here in twenty twenty four, where there's such a
Speaker 3: large distrust for government around the world, so many people
Speaker 3: have woken up from COVID. Why are people still skeptical
Speaker 3: and won't even take just a few moments to listen
Speaker 3: to the possibility that we're not on a ball that's
Speaker 3: spinning and hurtling through space and the sun is ninety
Speaker 3: three million miles away. Why won't people Is it the
Speaker 3: propaganda or is it just they don't want to be
Speaker 3: affiliated with, you know, crazy flat earthers.
Speaker 4: George, I think it's both and more because you know
Speaker 4: what cognitive dissonance is, and for any that are listening
Speaker 4: who don't know what it is is your brain believes something,
Speaker 4: but your eyes are telling you something different. We don't
Speaker 4: like that feeling, and I think people do have fear.
Speaker 4: I think it's flatter day.
Speaker 1: Does he say they don't want us to take their
Speaker 1: ball from them?
Speaker 5: That's right, all right?
Speaker 1: So I lost my soccer ball when I was in
Speaker 1: grade six.
Speaker 4: We're talking fifty plus years. I still remember that this
Speaker 4: kid took my ball, which was my birthday present, and
Speaker 4: when he gave it back and had a hole in it,
Speaker 4: I was pretty upset.
Speaker 1: So I don't think people want to lose their ball.
Speaker 4: But the problem is they could only see over that
Speaker 4: curve of the ball to see the truth and to
Speaker 4: see where God is. And I do come to this
Speaker 4: in a minute, they're going to go, wow, how did
Speaker 4: I hang on to that.
Speaker 1: For so long?
Speaker 4: I'll give you another example is from our base side
Speaker 4: suburb of Wellington Point, I can see to the northern
Speaker 4: end of Morton Island.
Speaker 1: I think it's forty two kilometers.
Speaker 4: I did run out of time to find all my figures,
Speaker 4: but that means the curve, if it's really there, would
Speaker 4: be one hundred and eighty meters even taking away my
Speaker 4: great height. I'm really about five foot seven or eight,
Speaker 4: but I always allowed two to three meters.
Speaker 1: It would be nearly six hundred feet under the curve.
Speaker 4: I like saying over the curve, but it should not
Speaker 4: be visible that far away. And there it is Plainer's day.
Speaker 4: The next thing, airplane travel should be faster in one
Speaker 4: direction than the other.
Speaker 1: Years before, when I.
Speaker 4: Was still a true Globe believer, my squash buddy, who's
Speaker 4: a really smart guy. He's got a master's in computer science.
Speaker 4: He's an engineer. He flew to Western Australian back and
Speaker 4: I asked him genuinely if one of the directions was
Speaker 4: much faster, and I was really disappointed, but he told
Speaker 4: me that it was only about twenty minutes difference. I
Speaker 4: couldn't understand that. I said, why is that? He said,
Speaker 4: I think there's tailwinds in one direction. It didn't make sense.
Speaker 4: If the Earth is spinning as fast as they say
Speaker 4: it is, that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: And time permitting will come back to that because I've
Speaker 1: got the notes further down. So back to my friend.
Speaker 1: She kept trying to get me to listen to this guy.
Speaker 4: Pastor Ray mcberry from Pinnacle Baptist Church in Georgia, USA.
Speaker 4: So I was just fighting it. Like I said, I
Speaker 4: came to it kicking and screaming. But I listened to
Speaker 4: the first one, and you know what, I got my
Speaker 4: defenses up. Look, the Bible does use metaphorical language.
Speaker 1: It does use.
Speaker 4: Phenomenal, phenomenalogue, phenomenological language, like we see the sunrise, we
Speaker 4: see the sunset right every so often.
Speaker 1: That's probably all it is. Somewhere around.
Speaker 4: Then she started sending me tiktoks, and that's a lot
Speaker 4: easier to deal with one cognitive dissonance at a time.
Speaker 1: So I listened to some more of the sermon series.
Speaker 4: And I kept reading my Bible every day. But that's
Speaker 4: a dangerous thing to do. One day I read Revelation
Speaker 4: nineteen seventeen and I knew I was in trouble. It
Speaker 4: read and I saw an angel standing in the sun,
Speaker 4: and I go, oh boy, no way, you can see
Speaker 4: an angel standing in the sun ninety three million miles away.
Speaker 5: That's a good point. I'd never thought of that. That's
Speaker 5: another verse that hasn't come up in this undone.
Speaker 4: From that point, I didn't believe it all, but I
Speaker 4: was undone. I thought I'm finished. My arguments have to
Speaker 4: just fall the way. And you know the other one,
Speaker 4: George Jesus said the stars will fall to the earth.
Speaker 4: It was another one I thought, see, I said, I
Speaker 4: said this to this person trying to convince me. I said, look,
Speaker 4: even that one star will just destroy the earth completely
Speaker 4: because it's so many, eight hundred and sixty times bigger
Speaker 4: than the earth.
Speaker 1: Now looking at me like a stupid they didn't understand.
Speaker 4: But that's what the globe model says, that the stars
Speaker 4: out there are so much bigger than the earth. But
Speaker 4: if we consider that they're actually luminaries or little lights
Speaker 4: in the firmament, that's a different story.
Speaker 1: Anyway. I think one of our problems.
Speaker 4: As Christians, especially in this busy age that we live in,
Speaker 4: is as we read the Bible, we don't always go
Speaker 4: deep with what it's saying. What I mean is we
Speaker 4: don't always realize the full ramification of the truth of
Speaker 4: the statements.
Speaker 1: Now a good example of this, and did you in
Speaker 1: you Wayne? Gary? Wayne?
Speaker 5: I sure did. The Genesis six conspiracy.
Speaker 1: Aah.
Speaker 4: I bought his book, but I haven't started listening to
Speaker 4: it because it's so big. But I've listened to a
Speaker 4: couple of other podcasts with him on it, and like
Speaker 4: did he go deep? He's quite got nine hundred page.
Speaker 3: A couple of verses, a couple of verses from Genesis six.
Speaker 4: I just go to the guys a maniac. But the
Speaker 4: other one, one of the verses said, unless you do
Speaker 4: something about.
Speaker 1: This, you don't see it.
Speaker 4: And this is when when they're building the Tower of Babel,
Speaker 4: God says, nothing that they propose to do will now
Speaker 4: be impossible for them. What is God saying they could
Speaker 4: get to the firmament? See, because Genesis eleven four says, come,
Speaker 4: let us build ourselves a city and the tower with
Speaker 4: its top in the heavens, and let us name for ourselves.
Speaker 4: Let us make a name for ourselves unless we be
Speaker 4: dispersed over the face of the earth. And the word
Speaker 4: for heaven there is the same one as in Genesis one,
Speaker 4: verse one and one verse eight. And God called the
Speaker 4: firmament heaven. So God says, if they keep going, they're
Speaker 4: going to be able to get.
Speaker 1: To the firmament by building. Wow, that's deep.
Speaker 3: Hi, that's really deep. And this is something that I've
Speaker 3: tried to mention before to people locally and on a
Speaker 3: few of these episodes like if you support NASA, it's like, literally,
Speaker 3: our government is trying to break through the firmament and
Speaker 3: have been trying to do so since Operation Dominic in
Speaker 3: the late nineteen fifties. And if we just stand by,
Speaker 3: if we believe that, and there are there are verses
Speaker 3: to support you know, exactly what you just said. Why
Speaker 3: aren't we kicking and screaming? And that's our God, the
Speaker 3: Father of Jesus Christ, and we're sitting back allowing this
Speaker 3: to happen our country within the borders that we reside.
Speaker 5: Are they really trying to break through the firmament?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: I believe, you know, God is all knowing. He knew
Speaker 3: a long time ago that this, you know, we would
Speaker 3: be here at this point. And I don't think it's
Speaker 3: you know, that the firmament is able to be broken. However,
Speaker 3: the evil people who run this government and around the
Speaker 3: world are trying, you know, to you know, following Satan's orders,
Speaker 3: trying to get up there and de through God's That's
Speaker 3: what I believe.
Speaker 1: I believe exactly the same thing.
Speaker 4: And I can tell you, as a person that believed
Speaker 4: in billions of years from a simple reading that says
Speaker 4: and there was day and night day one that what
Speaker 4: you do, or what one does, or what some people
Speaker 4: do is they read it, but they automatically converted, and
Speaker 4: they converted to whatever belief or truth they have.
Speaker 1: So that they don't get cognitive dissonance with the word
Speaker 1: of God. So in that.
Speaker 4: Respect, they're actually really disobedient to the word of God,
Speaker 4: preserving their mental well being by going, I can't deal
Speaker 4: with the opposite. Can't be one day, can't be ordinary days?
Speaker 1: Anyway, I'll keep going, shall I?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Okay? So we don't.
Speaker 4: Always take the time needed to check out a story
Speaker 4: in more detail by checking the cross references and other
Speaker 4: information available. Now, I'm extremely wary of Bible study notes
Speaker 4: and men's opinions.
Speaker 1: Now I'll tell you why.
Speaker 4: I write lots of notes in my Bible, and as
Speaker 4: I keep going back over and I find notes that
Speaker 4: I've written that I now go, oh, that's just not true.
Speaker 4: That's actually simply an error, and it's unbelief. And so
Speaker 4: now I go, I'm not going to look at study
Speaker 4: notes unless it's for something like a genealogy or something.
Speaker 4: When Jesus said you shall know the truth, and the
Speaker 4: truth shall set you free, that means you need to
Speaker 4: be a little bit brave, brave enough to investigate this
Speaker 4: topic and pray God leads you into His truth, which
Speaker 4: is the truth. There is nothing to.
Speaker 1: Fear if you are and now'm going to quote scripture.
Speaker 4: I'm reading it diligent to present yourself approved to God,
Speaker 4: a worker who does not need to be ashamed. Rightly
Speaker 4: dividing the word of truth. That's to sympathy to fifteen. Now,
Speaker 4: one of the reasons I came kicking and screaming to
Speaker 4: Flat Earth is I didn't want to be a flat earther.
Speaker 4: I want people to think I'm sensible and logical and right.
Speaker 4: So that's pride, that's ego, and that's not I've got
Speaker 4: to rightly divide this because who I've got to impress
Speaker 4: is not the guy next door.
Speaker 1: Not my boss, not my pastor.
Speaker 4: I've got to impress the living God that I have
Speaker 4: set myself to study his word rightly, and I want
Speaker 4: to hear and I'm sure you do too, George, and
Speaker 4: I'm sure a lot of our listeners do. We want
Speaker 4: to hear the words well done, good and faithful servant.
Speaker 1: I just go that's the only words I want to
Speaker 1: hear that's.
Speaker 5: Right, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: And one thing, you know, as you're talking about this,
Speaker 3: I appreciate when when you sent me your notes that
Speaker 3: you and I think this is probably where you may
Speaker 3: be leading to is when you were setting verses, you
Speaker 3: also cited Strong's concordance.
Speaker 5: On many of the words.
Speaker 3: Yes, and that's very important because, like you said, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of people who will read It's at words
Speaker 3: have meanings, and if there's a word you're not familiar with,
Speaker 3: there's a chance it's in Strong's concordance. And like I
Speaker 3: wish thirty forty years ago, you know, I took the
Speaker 3: time to just look at the word firmament, which you
Speaker 3: know I've read Genesis a thousand times and it wasn't
Speaker 3: until five or six years ago I took the time
Speaker 3: to understand it.
Speaker 1: I discarded it.
Speaker 4: You know what because one of the answers, no one
Speaker 4: of the creation ministries. Guys who's got a doctor? He
Speaker 4: was the New Zealand chess master. Surely he's a smart guy.
Speaker 4: He said, I'm happy to go that this fermament is
Speaker 4: just the sky above us, and the clouds of the
Speaker 4: water is above the firmament.
Speaker 1: And that was easy to deal with, but easy to
Speaker 1: deal with doesn't make it true anyway. So now I'm
Speaker 1: really careful about who I listened to.
Speaker 4: I have this analogy that I use, and it's the
Speaker 4: Picasso analogy. My mother lived in a house I don't
Speaker 4: know whether it was next door to his house or
Speaker 4: a couple of houses away before the Spanish Civil War.
Speaker 4: But I didn't think much of his art, even though
Speaker 4: I've seen some of it when I was in Spain.
Speaker 4: I read that at the end of his life, he said,
Speaker 4: I've spent all my life trying to do art like
Speaker 4: a child.
Speaker 1: And then I go, ding ding, Now I get it.
Speaker 4: I get what you're trying to do, and now I
Speaker 4: appreciate your art because we can't strip ourselves of the
Speaker 4: things we've learned and who we've become.
Speaker 1: As an adult.
Speaker 4: But he's tried to do that, so I've gone I'm
Speaker 4: going to try and do the same with everything I know,
Speaker 4: and as that everything's on the table, including God's word,
Speaker 4: I'm going to go to God's word like I've never
Speaker 4: seen it before and say, what is God communicating here?
Speaker 4: I think God clearly credentials himself by saying every word
Speaker 4: is God breathe. I think the spirit of God definitely
Speaker 4: confirms to us that we are children of God if
Speaker 4: we have the spirit living in us. So going from
Speaker 4: that point on, you build it up little by little
Speaker 4: you start to notice things. Oh I just believe that
Speaker 4: because someone preached a sermon on it. I just believe
Speaker 4: that because I read it in a study guide. Ah,
Speaker 4: not so true if I look at the Bible.
Speaker 1: Indeed, have you done something like that?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely, not easy though.
Speaker 1: Is it.
Speaker 5: No, it's it's really not.
Speaker 3: You have to be disciplined and buckle yourself up and
Speaker 3: oh yeah, you really do. But it all goes back
Speaker 3: to what you just said. You know, well done, my servant.
Speaker 3: That's what you want to hear. That's what this journey
Speaker 3: is all about. And we're commanded and we're all imperfect,
Speaker 3: we're all flawed, we're all sinners right yes, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: of course, but we just do the best we can.
Speaker 3: And what is I don't think it's in the Bible,
Speaker 3: but there's a saying that says, you know, we're in
Speaker 3: the world, but don't be of this world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's in the bubble. Okay, we're in the world,
Speaker 1: but not of it. And that's how we should be.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Okay, we can't get loving.
Speaker 5: These things absolutely.
Speaker 1: So I have a question for.
Speaker 4: Your listeners, how much time are you prepared to study
Speaker 4: God's word to rightly divide it on this topic. So
Speaker 4: God introduces himself in Genesis. He introduces himself to us,
Speaker 4: and I look this up just this morning. The seven
Speaker 4: eleven rule says you get seven seconds to make a
Speaker 4: good impression, and people will make eleven impressions of you.
Speaker 1: So let's apply that to God.
Speaker 4: The first seven seconds of Genesis destroys the Big Bang
Speaker 4: premise that everything started from nothing with no cause. It
Speaker 4: can't and doesn't happen on any scale ever seen. Therefore,
Speaker 4: the whole Big Bang theory should be thrown out, as
Speaker 4: it starts with error.
Speaker 1: How is it then going to find truth? I probably
Speaker 1: should mention that it's a Jesuit. It's a Jesuit priest.
Speaker 4: Who introduced it nearly a hundred years ago, supporting Einstein's theory.
Speaker 1: I love saying this to people.
Speaker 4: Einstein said that he was vinced you couldn't measure the
Speaker 4: movement of the Earth from any.
Speaker 1: Optical experiment on Earth.
Speaker 4: And then I say to them, do you know how
Speaker 4: he did get to get the earth moving. I say,
Speaker 4: like any good school teacher, he filled the blackboard with
Speaker 4: numbers and equations and said, dah, the earth moves.
Speaker 5: There you go. You're talking about George's Lamita, right, yes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so it was about one hundred years ago.
Speaker 1: Right. The Catholic Church is actually happy they introduced that.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, and it even goes back.
Speaker 3: You know they really kicked it off during Reformation with Copernicus, right,
Speaker 3: he was the most pushing it.
Speaker 4: Well, that's right. Yeah, So I like, do you call
Speaker 4: it the evil Trio? I sometimes call him a number.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, the evolution, the Big Bang and heliocentrism.
Speaker 4: So so then in Genesis, God tells us where made
Speaker 4: in his image, so we can throw out macro evolution.
Speaker 4: It's based on the lie that random chance on event
Speaker 4: has led us through a steady progression of development. And
Speaker 4: this is an answers in Genesis thing from go to
Speaker 4: you via the zoo. We're not evolved from monkeys.
Speaker 1: We throw that out. It's not right.
Speaker 4: And then the other one is what you just said,
Speaker 4: the Copernican theory of the sun going around us. You
Speaker 4: know what I say, to people, is we see the
Speaker 4: moon go around the earth. We said the moon goes
Speaker 4: around the earth. We see the sun go around the Earth,
Speaker 4: and we say we go around the sun. They both
Speaker 4: do the same thing, Yet we distinguish why would.
Speaker 1: We do that because we've been programmed to do it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the one thing that gets me, and again it
Speaker 3: goes back to people will believe anything. And Bernee proved
Speaker 3: that time and time again. Out of all the things
Speaker 3: we talk about, right and one of them is the
Speaker 3: whole moonlight theory, where you know, the sun ricochets off
Speaker 3: the moon and the Moon sends the light down. That's
Speaker 3: what moonlight really is, even though once again the Bible
Speaker 3: says exactly what it is. But the other one, which
Speaker 3: I see all the time on social media, why is
Speaker 3: out our space dark if the sun is ninety three
Speaker 3: million house away?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean, you know the larned landing, there's no dust, none,
Speaker 4: no dust create or anything. My son has a droning
Speaker 4: business and his little twelve inch drone has four two
Speaker 4: and a half inch props and I go out and
Speaker 4: help him from time to time. When he takes off
Speaker 4: and when he lands, it sends leaves and dust flying
Speaker 4: and what that ten thousand pound trust lun landing didn't
Speaker 4: send a single speck of dust anyway.
Speaker 1: Mmmm yeah.
Speaker 3: I wonder the people who were directly involved, whether it
Speaker 3: was a polo or eleven or whichever one's the ones
Speaker 3: through the seventh you know, the early seventies, if they
Speaker 3: truly realized the impact and the misleading of people away
Speaker 3: from God at that time, did they really understand the gravity,
Speaker 3: for lack of a better way, that they were, you know,
Speaker 3: the deceptiveness that they were putting upon the people of
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 4: Look, I think and I know you know a lot
Speaker 4: more about how these things work, George. I think they
Speaker 4: had something on these guys. And like the Capricorn one movie, Look,
Speaker 4: if you threaten the man that you're going to kill him,
Speaker 4: and he can protect.
Speaker 1: His family by dying, he should go just do it.
Speaker 4: But if you threaten him they're going to kill your family,
Speaker 4: then that man has to go, well, I go, I
Speaker 4: have to protect my family. And I think that's what
Speaker 4: they did, just like in the movie.
Speaker 5: I agree.
Speaker 1: And look, you know a funny thing this is I'm
Speaker 1: moving off the topic a bit.
Speaker 4: When Trump said that they were going to make space force,
Speaker 4: I think that's what he made. There's a little clip
Speaker 4: of it, and buzz Aldron's next to him, and Trump says,
Speaker 4: and in the years.
Speaker 1: They had, we're going to look back and say, how
Speaker 1: did we ever do it? Without space? You know the
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about?
Speaker 4: And buzz All's eyes open wide like sources.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: You know, if you hear that funny Space Force logo
Speaker 3: upside down, it looks like baffleman.
Speaker 1: Oh dear.
Speaker 4: And you know now that you can see these things,
Speaker 4: you see them everywhere. When you can't see them, you
Speaker 4: won't believe that people could do those things right in
Speaker 4: your face and laugh at you. But you know what,
Speaker 4: I love the Bible because it says God holds them
Speaker 4: in derision, so he's going to have the last laugh.
Speaker 4: And I don't mean that in any mean way, but
Speaker 4: he holds them in derision because they mock him openly
Speaker 4: and God doesn't respond.
Speaker 1: He just patiently waits. A little example of that.
Speaker 4: I keep wondering how does God stay patient with the
Speaker 4: world going to hell the way it is? And I
Speaker 4: think of a good teacher in a classroom if they
Speaker 4: get a phone call that they have to take, Like
Speaker 4: I said, boss or whatever, they'll take the phone call,
Speaker 4: and sometimes the class will use that opportunity to start
Speaker 4: getting up and moving around and talking to their friends,
Speaker 4: maybe even throw a paper airplane or two. And the
Speaker 4: good teacher, not wanting to get distracted when he's talking
Speaker 4: to the bars or whatever, we'll wait patiently, and then
Speaker 4: at the end, the good teacher will say that's enough,
Speaker 4: go back to your seats, let's carry on where we were.
Speaker 4: But not so good teacher will start yelling and screaming.
Speaker 4: But the teacher has control and knows that he has
Speaker 4: all the authority in that room, will bring it to
Speaker 4: order in its time. And I'm pretty sure that's what
Speaker 4: God will be doing in his.
Speaker 3: Time, absolutely, And I'm so glad that you brought those
Speaker 3: things up. You know, we talk about being able to
Speaker 3: see and not really noticing prior. Obviously, the NASA symbol
Speaker 3: has the serpent's tongue on it.
Speaker 5: And if you take.
Speaker 3: Give me a second here, so the Greek word for
Speaker 3: serpent is opie. The Greek word for tongue is glass.
Speaker 3: And if you've read Psalms one, verse three, it says
Speaker 3: they have sharpened their tongue like a serpent. Adders poison
Speaker 3: is under the lips.
Speaker 5: And who okay, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: And again it's interesting if you take the time and
Speaker 3: all these things are always Greek Apollo, Artemis, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know all of that. You know what.
Speaker 4: They have questions, why are we doing Greek and Roman
Speaker 4: gods and goddesses.
Speaker 3: Yep, and we have obelisks and and even the state.
Speaker 3: How about medical symbol the snake and the staff, the
Speaker 3: rod of a Scleppius. I think it is it is
Speaker 3: associated with Asclepius. I don't know if I'm saying that right,
Speaker 3: but that's.
Speaker 1: The great you know what you're talking about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the Greek god of healing.
Speaker 3: So all of these things, through medical, through NASA, through pharmaceuticals,
Speaker 3: through NASA, and their deceptions, it all goes back to
Speaker 3: the Greeks and Greek mythology.
Speaker 4: But the Greeks have had a massive influence on now
Speaker 4: thinking in society.
Speaker 5: Oh sure, Now I have another scripture.
Speaker 1: And I used to have this on my wall. I
Speaker 1: don't have many up here anymore.
Speaker 4: The Book of Proverbs says it is the glory of
Speaker 4: God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings
Speaker 4: to search it out.
Speaker 1: And you know, what we are, kings and priests to
Speaker 1: our God.
Speaker 4: We should be looking searching out things anyway. I can't
Speaker 4: actually remember the moment when I thought, oh, it's all true,
Speaker 4: but these are the things that pointed there. God put
Speaker 4: a firmament over the Earth, and it's not a long
Speaker 4: way away. Water at rest finds its own level. That
Speaker 4: means seventy one percent of the earth is level, at
Speaker 4: least seventy one.
Speaker 1: Percent of the Earth. And you've got some states there
Speaker 1: that I've seen. They're flatter than pancakes. Ohio is that
Speaker 1: one of them? Really?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And Kansas is the big one.
Speaker 1: Right, of course, Dorothy, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4: Photos of the Earth are not trustworthy evidence of what
Speaker 4: the scripture says, and the Bible of firms the Earth
Speaker 4: is stationary.
Speaker 1: The sun goes around the Earth has stated in the Bible.
Speaker 4: And I've been observing double rainbows for many years, thinking
Speaker 4: recently that the second rainbow was like God saying his
Speaker 4: word is doubly to be trusted.
Speaker 1: It's not He's not going to flood the earth again.
Speaker 4: And then I learned that the second rainbow is actually inverted.
Speaker 4: It's like a reflection of what George, what would it
Speaker 4: be a reflection of maybe the firmament.
Speaker 5: Oh of course, yeah. And it's it's shaped.
Speaker 3: You know the shape of the rainbow would reflect the
Speaker 3: firmament as well.
Speaker 1: Right, I know I've recently seen that fittest flat Earth.
Speaker 4: I remember the first time he came on your broadcast
Speaker 4: on the podcast, thinking, oh, this guy's nice.
Speaker 1: He's a nice guy.
Speaker 4: Boy, he's gone a long way, hasn't here Now? Oh
Speaker 4: why he's got some crazy ideas. But you know what,
Speaker 4: I'm not prepared to go that's too crazy on the
Speaker 4: table and keep looking at it.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 1: Another one, the New Jerusalem.
Speaker 4: When it comes down to Earth, it's twenty two hundred
Speaker 4: kilometers it's fourteen one hundred miles square. Well, if you
Speaker 4: put that on the globe, it's going to be a
Speaker 4: sea saw.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think God's going to give.
Speaker 4: The New Jerusalem a sea saw, especially because it's the
Speaker 4: same height up, et cetera, et cetera. Now, I know
Speaker 4: you didn't sleep for two weeks, but I.
Speaker 1: Remember waking up in the middle of the night going,
Speaker 1: what a deception, what a con job? Earth's not a clobe.
Speaker 1: It was like it was just staggering. I no longer
Speaker 1: believed it was a clobe, but I can hardly believe that.
Speaker 1: I wasn't believing it. And I'm going, oh, no, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be a flat earth. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be a flatter.
Speaker 3: Kicking and screaming all the way in welcome all the
Speaker 3: way right to the end.
Speaker 5: And by the way, was so close. Sorry, George, you
Speaker 5: go no, what gear was that when you became a flatter?
Speaker 1: Oh? Last year?
Speaker 4: Only just last year, Okay, but I've gone hard, yeah
Speaker 4: you have.
Speaker 1: And do you know what Joe El said?
Speaker 4: It's all good like learning about the earth and learning
Speaker 4: about God's creation.
Speaker 1: It's all joy.
Speaker 4: Well maybe it was another maybe it was another person
Speaker 4: on your podcast before.
Speaker 5: It's so much fun, it is, it really is.
Speaker 3: And it's amazing people who have never even done a
Speaker 3: podcast before and never been behind a microphone before and
Speaker 3: just blow it, just absolutely crush it and bring so
Speaker 3: much information. And the most important thing with this is,
Speaker 3: you know, I think a lot of people feel desolate alone,
Speaker 3: thinking that am I the only person who thinks this way?
Speaker 3: And then they've heard, you know, almost two hundred people
Speaker 3: over the last two years, and well there are obviously
Speaker 3: more people around the world who think like me. So
Speaker 3: and you reach out you know.
Speaker 1: What, Yeah, I keep running across them.
Speaker 4: Like we saw this yard out the front of where
Speaker 4: we go walking around the lake close by giving away
Speaker 4: some pots.
Speaker 1: So we go back and we're chatting to it.
Speaker 4: She's a nice lady about my age and which is
Speaker 4: a really friendly conversation. And in the end, I said
Speaker 4: about the state election that was coming up, I said,
Speaker 4: you know what, me and I might just put research
Speaker 4: flat Earth on the ballot sheet.
Speaker 1: She turns out to be a flat earth or and
Speaker 1: a Christian. So we've become good friends with her.
Speaker 4: We haven't seen her for a little while, but it's
Speaker 4: just like there are people everywhere and she is fairly isolated,
Speaker 4: so it was good to make friends with her. Anyway,
Speaker 4: I've got more things, shall I keep going?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to make sure I have a
Speaker 3: list of your things too. I want to make sure
Speaker 3: you have time to speak about the short season.
Speaker 1: Ah, maybe we could leave that till another time.
Speaker 5: Okay, No, that's fine. It's just.
Speaker 4: I can probably cover it fairly quickly. Probably the main
Speaker 4: one about the short season. Why I don't believe it's
Speaker 4: the short season is it says they will come up
Speaker 4: to the beloved city of the City of the Saints,
Speaker 4: the Camp of the Saints.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think there's a place on.
Speaker 4: Earth where there's a beloved city which is the Camp
Speaker 4: of the Saints, and the smoke of her To meant,
Speaker 4: I'll babble and we'll go up forever and ever.
Speaker 1: We don't see that unless they're hiding at Antarctica. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I hadn't thought of that.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, that's you just dropped another nugget for me
Speaker 5: to research.
Speaker 1: But I don't think the beloved faiths are in Antarctica.
Speaker 4: I don't know anyway we can if we get time, Yeah,
Speaker 4: i'd I'd like to mention a few other things, but
Speaker 4: that's the two I remember at the top of my head.
Speaker 4: You know where I like to go with conversations with
Speaker 4: people that I don't know if they're Christians or not.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sorry, If I know they're not Christians.
Speaker 4: I say, if you could see into heaven, just up
Speaker 4: above us, you would see Jesus standing at the right
Speaker 4: end of the throne of God. And I believe you
Speaker 4: could extend these arms out sideways and say, this is
Speaker 4: how much I love you, and he would show you
Speaker 4: the holes in his hands where he paid for your sins,
Speaker 4: and he calls to you, come to.
Speaker 1: Me now, going back to coming kicking and screaming.
Speaker 4: As soon as I believe that it was flat, I
Speaker 4: straightaway accepted all the conspiracy theories like nine to eleven
Speaker 4: and NASA and JFK.
Speaker 1: It just was. It was just like it was there.
Speaker 1: I go, I don't know how, but and I go wow.
Speaker 4: And so I've been learning lots about that, but I
Speaker 4: don't want to go too long there. It feels like
Speaker 4: it's easy to see the lies and to see through
Speaker 4: the lies.
Speaker 1: So there were lots of questions and just as many answers.
Speaker 1: It's such an amazing journey.
Speaker 4: You know what, we stopped watching I feel like we
Speaker 4: stopped watching TV almost straight away. Ye stop watching my
Speaker 4: beloved football games on a Friday night, and I said,
Speaker 4: down afternoon, if I could, I'll never look back.
Speaker 1: We canceled Netflix. What a good day that was.
Speaker 4: We study God's word, We study science, we study information history.
Speaker 4: We read, we play cards or board games. We talk together,
Speaker 4: and we do lots of walking. Life's become a lot
Speaker 4: more simple and a lot easier.
Speaker 3: And you've gotten that propaganda machine out of your head.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 5: I do believe it makes your mind clearer.
Speaker 3: You don't have people talking at you all day long
Speaker 3: telling you what to believe, from the news cycle to
Speaker 3: the Beganda in Hollywood, et cetera. It's it's a game
Speaker 3: changer walking away from that stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. So sometime after this, not long.
Speaker 4: I opened my phone and Spotify said, you might like
Speaker 4: to listen to flat Earth Files podcast. Oh and ha,
Speaker 4: so Spotify is listening as well as the phone. Great,
Speaker 4: I will listen. I went back to number one, Why
Speaker 4: the Lie?
Speaker 1: And I listened. George, I loved it, and I just
Speaker 1: kept listening.
Speaker 4: Every time I was in the car, I would binge
Speaker 4: on Flat Earth Files. It was a sad day when
Speaker 4: I caught up and had to wait days and days.
Speaker 1: For the next podcast.
Speaker 4: But I love the people you've brought on so some
Speaker 4: of the some of the things that have been just
Speaker 4: real game changes past the Dean Nodle. I don't agree
Speaker 4: with everything he says, but the forty four government documents
Speaker 4: approved flat Earth.
Speaker 1: I love his reasoning.
Speaker 4: Right, he was standing for governor of Alabama.
Speaker 1: It was Alabama, wasn't it right? Yes, I believe it
Speaker 1: was yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4: And he says, I'm going to have something as a safeguard.
Speaker 4: They try and take my children, say you're a crazy
Speaker 4: plat earther. Well, the government says the Earth's flat, and
Speaker 4: you go whow. I've told people this that NASA has
Speaker 4: documents that outline that the Earth is flat, and they say,
Speaker 4: I don't believe it. And they'll look at it and say,
Speaker 4: but you don't believe NASA got to the moon. How
Speaker 4: can you believe this? These are technical manuals. It's a
Speaker 4: different story.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 4: But people won't believe things if it's just going to
Speaker 4: do their head in anyway.
Speaker 1: Flat Earth Banjo. Have you had him on your podcast? No?
Speaker 5: I have not.
Speaker 3: I've chatted with him briefly. He's actually the guy who
Speaker 3: wrote the sixteen Emergency.
Speaker 5: Landings at Proof lat Earth.
Speaker 1: What a great book.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what a great guy too, Now, yes he is.
Speaker 1: He's a lovely guy.
Speaker 4: I used to use the Taiwan to Los Angeles emergency
Speaker 4: landing flight and then I looked up their circuit, that
Speaker 4: the great circuit route that they fly, and they have
Speaker 4: that route going very close to Alaska.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm.
Speaker 4: Prepared to concede things and go, I won't use that anymore,
Speaker 4: like I won't use the nineteen fifty eight Encyclopedia Britannica
Speaker 4: saying there's a dome above the earth. That's actually not
Speaker 4: a good one for flatters. It's youth because it is
Speaker 4: talking about a geographic feature of the dome.
Speaker 1: At thirteen thousand feet. They weren't.
Speaker 4: I don't believe they're highlighting a firmament. Also, I don't
Speaker 4: use that ever anymore anyway. So this la sorry, Taiwan
Speaker 4: to La. I looked up to go if they're flying
Speaker 4: straight across and they're flying just above Hawaii, to go
Speaker 4: to Alaska's over four thousand kill me is what's that
Speaker 4: two and a half thousand miles more than two and
Speaker 4: a half thousand miles.
Speaker 1: Out of the way.
Speaker 4: But they're great circuit route they call a circuit or
Speaker 4: circle route.
Speaker 5: I think it's a circle route, right.
Speaker 1: The great circle route. I go, okay, I'll concede that.
Speaker 4: But the one that flatber Banjo started with and as
Speaker 4: a person with a master's degree in emergency management of
Speaker 4: aeroplane services, was the soccer team from Brazil from Rio
Speaker 4: flying to Sydney Australia. Why would they fly to la first?
Speaker 4: Makes no sense at all unless you look at a
Speaker 4: flat Earth.
Speaker 1: Map and it's the straight line.
Speaker 4: And when I saw those things, I'm going, oh really,
Speaker 4: it was like wow, I can't believe this.
Speaker 1: Now you have had Vicar Dras on your show, haven't you?
Speaker 1: Who was that Vicar drasif?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, in the Chemical Realm.
Speaker 4: Yep, that's an amazing piece of machinery. There's just outstanding
Speaker 4: founded brothers Fladder Dave already mentioned Plato times. There's so
Speaker 4: many people, and one of your I think she was
Speaker 4: one of the first Australians you had on mentioned the
Speaker 4: Helio Sorcery documentary.
Speaker 1: That's a really good documentary.
Speaker 4: Those guys just lived down the road a bit further
Speaker 4: away than marks down at Gold Coast. Okay, but the
Speaker 4: best thing, the best thing has been taking God's word
Speaker 4: as absolute.
Speaker 1: Truth, about reinterpreting it. That's right now.
Speaker 4: I know I make fun of being a spiritual giant,
Speaker 4: but I said to the Lord one day, I'm really
Speaker 4: going to believe your word for what it says.
Speaker 1: Right, And here I am. I may as well have
Speaker 1: run off to Google.
Speaker 4: I read where Jesus return every guy's going to see him,
Speaker 4: And I go, no, that just doesn't work, because he
Speaker 4: has stood big. I just what are we going to
Speaker 4: see him on our phones on TV? And here I
Speaker 4: am thinking, I'm going to believe Jesus straight away the
Speaker 4: first issue of.
Speaker 1: Maybe some problem. I crumble and I go, I don't
Speaker 1: know how that works.
Speaker 4: The angels in the Book of Acts say this, Jesus
Speaker 4: is going to return in the same way went up.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, well, there's one guy going up in the
Speaker 4: in the sky from Jerusalem and he just appeared into
Speaker 4: the clouds pretty much straight away. And the next day
Speaker 4: I read this verse and it just came up in
Speaker 4: my Bible reading.
Speaker 1: When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with these.
Speaker 4: Mighty angels in flaming fire, and I was went, oh, Lord,
Speaker 4: I'm so I don't think it's going to be exactly
Speaker 4: the same way. He will come down in the same manner,
Speaker 4: but he's going to have a host of angels and
Speaker 4: he's going to be in flaming fire. I have to
Speaker 4: believe the word that every eye is going to see him.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: Did I didn't mention my squash buddy before?
Speaker 1: Did I? Briefly about him flying to Western Australia.
Speaker 5: No, no about that.
Speaker 4: I think I skipped past it. Well, a few years back.
Speaker 4: We've been playing squash for over twenty years. A few
Speaker 4: years back he flew to Western Australia, and when he
Speaker 4: came back, I said, was it faster in one direction?
Speaker 4: He says, not only about twenty minutes. Now, he's an engineer,
Speaker 4: he's a smart guy. I'm really I'm genuinely disappointed because
Speaker 4: I thought, well, if the Earth is spinning at where
Speaker 4: we are, seven to eight hundred miles an hour, over
Speaker 4: eleven hundred kilometers an hour, he should have been able
Speaker 4: to go fast in one direction. The plane can fly
Speaker 4: it about five let's just say five hundred miles an hour,
Speaker 4: eight hundred kilometers an hour. The plane wouldn't move in
Speaker 4: that direction. It would go backwards.
Speaker 1: Oh hang on, I've jump to where and now believe
Speaker 1: he couldn't explain it.
Speaker 4: He couldn't explain why the flights were roughly the same distance.
Speaker 4: It was wind speed that made it twenty minutes faster.
Speaker 4: Now I've even gotten two convoluted here. My argument with
Speaker 4: him last year when he went again, was a very
Speaker 4: different argument because at first I was just disappointed at
Speaker 4: this time. I said, if the atmosphere is not stuck
Speaker 4: to the earth, then the ground below should pass under
Speaker 4: the plane at seven to eight hundred miles an hour
Speaker 4: from east to west, and the plane should also go
Speaker 4: between eight hundred kilometers an hour five hundred miles an
Speaker 4: hour over the ground, covering the distance in a great
Speaker 4: gain of about twelve miles an hour gross game and
Speaker 4: flying the other direction, it'd actually be going backwards as
Speaker 4: the earth flew under your feet faster than the plane
Speaker 4: could go. He couldn't deal with it, and I found
Speaker 4: myself having a hard time, thinking, this is a stupid model.
Speaker 1: How did we ever believe this work?
Speaker 3: That is the big question. How did just we just
Speaker 3: buy into it hook line and sinker. And if you
Speaker 3: remember the propaganda from the it was like the nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy eight Superman movie with Christopher Reeve when he tries
Speaker 3: Lois Lane and her car goes into there and he
Speaker 3: flies around the earth and gets it spinning the other
Speaker 3: way to go back in time. Oh, I remember that
Speaker 3: he had all these little things that are just planted
Speaker 3: in our minds to believe this. They're very clever and
Speaker 3: listen Satan is a very clever person, and he is
Speaker 3: very deceitful. And that's what he does.
Speaker 4: He can't six thousand years, and I don't think he sleeps, No, No,
Speaker 4: he is resolved to do his worst.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 4: And the Bible says that he sees the whole world.
Speaker 4: And I often say this to people, how does he
Speaker 4: deceive the whole world? He can't deceive the whole world.
Speaker 4: God's not real because millions of people believe in God.
Speaker 4: He can't deceive us that God's word can't be trusted
Speaker 4: the way he deceived E. Because millions of us believe
Speaker 4: that God's word is firm and it's the truth. And
Speaker 4: I asked him, and they can't come up with anything.
Speaker 4: I say, what about the earth we live on? What
Speaker 4: about the realm? Wherein do you think he might have
Speaker 4: been working to make us think we live somewhere else? Anyway,
Speaker 4: it's a little nugget that I like to drop in.
Speaker 4: So back to the aeroplane. So many pilots openly admit
Speaker 4: the earth flat, but a lot of them fighted. So
Speaker 4: I recently learned a friend of mine had designed and
Speaker 4: built and flown his own aeroplanes.
Speaker 1: I asked him how long? He said, five or six
Speaker 1: hour flights.
Speaker 4: I said to him, did you dip the nose of
Speaker 4: the plane during a six hour flight?
Speaker 1: He looked at me weird, saying no. What do you mean?
Speaker 4: I asked him, did you have to dip the nose
Speaker 4: to a for the curvature of the earth? He laughed,
Speaker 4: He shook his head and walked away into his office life.
Speaker 3: But again, this is another thing that would logically have
Speaker 3: to be done if indeed we lived on a curved ball.
Speaker 3: That's right, And what would happen if if the pilot's
Speaker 3: flying south on a ball? If you close your mind,
Speaker 3: just close your eyes for a second. You look, there's
Speaker 3: Earth right and you're flying from Florida just south. How
Speaker 3: are you not flying off into outer space if you're
Speaker 3: not constantly dipping your.
Speaker 5: Nose down? Right?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I use the same argument, but a different way.
Speaker 1: I just have them flying north south or.
Speaker 4: South north, And I say, if you look down, you
Speaker 4: should see the Earth spinning at somewhere between from Australia
Speaker 4: seven eight hundred miles an hour to over one thousand
Speaker 4: miles an hour at the equator. And I said, no
Speaker 4: one ever sees that. And they said, that's because it's
Speaker 4: too slow. I said, you can't tell me a thousand
Speaker 4: miles an hour is too slow. They don't come back
Speaker 4: with an argument because a thousand miles an hour is
Speaker 4: not slow. Do one hundred miles an hour and see
Speaker 4: how fast it is in your car.
Speaker 5: And ten times that. Yeah, fast, it's very fast. But
Speaker 5: where the crazy ones comelo?
Speaker 4: Oh yes, I know that you more than me, jeorgs
Speaker 4: because you're on a podcast. I can hide you know
Speaker 4: what happened? I started finding witnessing to people so much
Speaker 4: easier by asking Christians if they were open for a challenge,
Speaker 4: did they know where God was? Do they know what
Speaker 4: the firmament is? And non Christians do you know where
Speaker 4: God is? Or even Christians, do you know where God is?
Speaker 4: And most Christians do not know where God is. I
Speaker 4: couldn't have answered you last year the beginning of last year.
Speaker 4: I couldn't have if you'd have said, where it's God, I
Speaker 4: go somewhere. Oh, he's in me, Oh he's everywhere both
Speaker 4: correct answers. Of course, where's his throne? I qualify the question.
Speaker 4: People don't have a clue where his throne is. But
Speaker 4: his throne is just above us. He sits on the
Speaker 4: circle of the earth, that's right, and its inhabitants are
Speaker 4: like grasshoppers, and who stretches out the heavens like a
Speaker 4: curtain and.
Speaker 1: Spreads them out like a tenth to dwell in. It's
Speaker 1: all there.
Speaker 4: The God, God's word has got so much in there
Speaker 4: for us. You know, the Bible says that the mouth
Speaker 4: of two or three witnesses the matter will be established.
Speaker 1: I believe we should hold the Bible to that standard
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 4: So one verse says something and we don't find it
Speaker 4: anywhere else, hold it lightly and go maybe this does
Speaker 4: mean that, But I'm not sure. But most of what
Speaker 4: we're talking about here has more than one verse, and
Speaker 4: many of them have more than two or three.
Speaker 1: Absolutely confirm it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. We're down to our last seven or eight minutes.
Speaker 3: One thing I did want to ask to squeeze into
Speaker 3: this one is, for instance, Joshua ten thirteen.
Speaker 5: Mentions, oh I love that the book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how the sun said still, But also it mentions
Speaker 3: the Book of Joshure. In your studies, do you include
Speaker 3: the apocrypha?
Speaker 1: I have a book of actually here, I just can't.
Speaker 4: I just don't find it easy to open because I
Speaker 4: have so many other things that I'm behind in reading.
Speaker 4: I will look at apocryphal and pseudo biblical stuff, but
Speaker 4: have to hold it more lightly.
Speaker 1: But let's see what it says.
Speaker 7: Sure, the Book of Enoch I've listened to, but I
Speaker 7: just I probably don't have time, even as a retired person,
Speaker 7: to catch up on everything.
Speaker 4: So I'm going hard where I can. But I think
Speaker 4: Paul cites non biblical texts when he writes to the church.
Speaker 1: Yep, right, so why shouldn't we Exactly?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got a couple of things and i'll get
Speaker 4: to I'll get to finishing up. I ask people do
Speaker 4: you believe I've got a lot of different ways I
Speaker 4: start conversations because.
Speaker 1: I'm not backward. I ask people do you believe the
Speaker 1: government serves us?
Speaker 4: And some people say yes, you know what I say?
Speaker 4: Then what about the American government? Do you think they
Speaker 4: tell the truth? They all say no. I'm sorry, Georgetish
Speaker 4: guy's under the bus. But most Australians go no, I
Speaker 4: don't believe they service And I'll ask them when you
Speaker 4: think this started happening, Because in my naivety, I thought
Speaker 4: it started happening maybe twenty thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: The best answer I.
Speaker 4: Got was in nineteen oh one, that's when we became
Speaker 4: a commonwealth. I don't believe the government serve us. They
Speaker 4: bring laws in that no people really want. They're not
Speaker 4: serving what we're asking them to say or do. They've
Speaker 4: got a different agenda, and you know where it comes from.
Speaker 4: I think if you're listening and you haven't worked out
Speaker 4: that it's filtered down from the God of this world,
Speaker 4: as the Bible calls the devil the prince of this world,
Speaker 4: then you haven't believed what the apostle Paul said.
Speaker 1: We're not ignorant of his devices. I think we need
Speaker 1: to be sharp and alert because Jesus was very clear.
Speaker 4: Do not be deceived. If it were possible, even the
Speaker 4: very elect would be deceived. Let's not make it possible.
Speaker 4: Let's really wake up to what's going on. Let's get
Speaker 4: off that TV set and let's get our heads in
Speaker 4: the word, enjoying fellowship with one another and studying God's.
Speaker 1: Word out.
Speaker 3: Amen, well said, really well done, and you have brought
Speaker 3: so many great points and a great perspective, and your
Speaker 3: journey has been incredible and we'd love to have you
Speaker 3: back on in the near future. To continue this conversation.
Speaker 3: You have cited so much, and I'm so glad that
Speaker 3: you've enjoyed the podcast. And but most of all, thank
Speaker 3: you for being a disciple of Jesus Christ. That is
Speaker 3: the most important thing that one can do, and it's
Speaker 3: obvious that you are committed to doing that.
Speaker 5: So thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Thank you, George. Do you want can I go through
Speaker 1: six bullets?
Speaker 4: Believe I thought I'm going to do more than Sixah.
Speaker 5: Go ahead and run through them.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: Number one is scripture. If you don't found your life
Speaker 4: on scripture, you've got issues. There's either two hundred scriptures
Speaker 4: or there's a round two hundred scriptures that give information
Speaker 4: and evidence of the makeup of the heavens and the earth.
Speaker 4: According to scripture, these things are established. There's a firmament
Speaker 4: over us and around us. It's called heaven by God himself.
Speaker 4: The earth is made before the sun, and it's stationary fixed,
Speaker 4: it doesn't move. This is scripture. This is what our
Speaker 4: God tells us. The sun goes around us. It's very clear.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: In the King James version of Psalm nineteen, verse five,
Speaker 4: it doesn't say it's rising.
Speaker 1: Is from the end of the heavens.
Speaker 4: It says it's going forth is from the end of
Speaker 4: the heavens and its circuit to the end.
Speaker 1: Of them, which I thought was very interesting.
Speaker 4: But the Greek and that people do say the sun rises,
Speaker 4: the Earth has foundations, or people don't like that. The
Speaker 4: moon is a light. It's not a reflector. When you
Speaker 4: saw the lunar landing on the Moon's surface, it should
Speaker 4: have been like looking up in the spotlights of one
Speaker 4: of those football games, right, you shouldn't be able to
Speaker 4: look at it.
Speaker 5: That's rue.
Speaker 1: And those guys are just wandering around with little soft lighting.
Speaker 1: They go.
Speaker 4: Rainbows. God love your rainbows. Number two no movement, no movement.
Speaker 4: Even Einstein couldn't get the movement. And you know all
Speaker 4: those experiments like areas failure. I love that they call
Speaker 4: it a failure Michelson Marley experiment. When you look at them,
Speaker 4: people come up with an answer and say, it just
Speaker 4: proves you the ether doesn't move. Well, actually it actually
Speaker 4: proved the Earth is not moving. Number three, no curve measurement.
Speaker 4: Look anywhere you go. You can prove this.
Speaker 1: It's really easy.
Speaker 4: Number four is using and trusting our senses. I often
Speaker 4: start my conversations with this. I'll stand on one foot.
Speaker 4: Now I've got big bunions on my feet. I'll stand
Speaker 4: on one foot if I'm in the sawner. They can
Speaker 4: see that I've got big bunions, and I say, can
Speaker 4: you do this? And I can't balance very well, so
Speaker 4: wabbling and they go yeah. So if you think you
Speaker 4: could do it at ten miles an hour on a
Speaker 4: merry go round going backwards, and most of them straight
Speaker 4: away they probably not. I said, now, you probably could
Speaker 4: learn to do that, but could you balance like this
Speaker 4: on a roller coaster They're doing one hundred miles an
Speaker 4: hour going upside down and loop the loops And everyone
Speaker 4: says no. I say, yet, we are spinning at speeds way.
Speaker 1: More than one hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 4: In fact, most people I ask them if I can
Speaker 4: how fast you think we're going.
Speaker 1: They might know about the orbit, and they might even
Speaker 1: know about go around Sun, but most of them don't
Speaker 1: know that.
Speaker 4: NASA claims we are going over a million miles an
Speaker 4: hour through the Greater attractor.
Speaker 1: We can't sense any movement. Airplanes prove it.
Speaker 4: This one is probably one of the easiest and best
Speaker 4: evidences that planes fly flat. And level, and there's a
Speaker 4: whole lot of others. What I just I spent so
Speaker 4: long in this and I've got bits of information all
Speaker 4: over the place, So I'll leave that. Maybe if I
Speaker 4: do come back, i'd love to. By the way, thank
Speaker 4: you for asking me back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you mention that because you know what I'm holding
Speaker 3: in the book. I've been mentioning this book. I actually
Speaker 3: went to what my Books and found it. It's two
Speaker 3: hundred plus flat Earth Bible versus. It's awesome. And I
Speaker 3: just noticed while you were talking it even mentions Revelation
Speaker 3: twenty one, fifteen through seventeen, New Jerusalem, the Huge Cube,
Speaker 3: and then Waters Curbed Joe thirty seven to ten. But
Speaker 3: you know what's cool about this book? At the very end,
Speaker 3: it says, summary, after reading this, how do I feel
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I don't remember somebody sent this to me or
Speaker 3: I got it from Amazon, but check it out. Two
Speaker 3: hundred plus Flatter Bible verses. I have the ISBN. If
Speaker 3: anybody wants it. I'll try to remember to put it
Speaker 3: in the show notes. Oh what a great conversation.
Speaker 1: Sorry, George, who's it by?
Speaker 5: That's the thing. There's no credited author.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, so maybe if I find it, maybe it's
Speaker 3: but I don't listen it anywhere in the book. I'll
Speaker 3: locate it and I'll put it in the show notes
Speaker 3: for sure, so people can.
Speaker 4: Have you been canned? Because that's only five, I've still
Speaker 4: got two go so, oh no, I've jumped right. Number
Speaker 4: six is perspective.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 1: It's been a great ride learning about perspective.
Speaker 4: And like we talked to this like I don't want
Speaker 4: to give away who people are because it's their story
Speaker 4: to tell.
Speaker 1: Sure, But she teaches art and we went into her
Speaker 1: art room and they go, wow, I didn't know you're
Speaker 1: such a good artist. I said, do you do you
Speaker 1: understand perspective? Oh, we've got to teach a perspective? Well
Speaker 1: what is?
Speaker 4: And she's just going on and I mentioned the water
Speaker 4: being flat and stuff at this and her husband.
Speaker 1: Goes, oh, I'm not flat earth again.
Speaker 4: But she's older than I am by a good number
Speaker 4: of years, and I don't haven't had a chance to
Speaker 4: ask her if she believes it, but we just leave
Speaker 4: it there.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. My last one is NASA, because you've
Speaker 1: gotta love NASA.
Speaker 4: The wire harnesses how many fails you know, you know,
Speaker 4: they know we see these things and they don't care, do.
Speaker 5: They one hundred percent?
Speaker 3: And not only that, not only the harnesses the CGI fails.
Speaker 5: That the infamous video of George W.
Speaker 3: Bush Poppy being you know, in his wheelchair through Houston
Speaker 3: in the background, the.
Speaker 5: Blue screens, the green screens, it's bubbles, bubbles in space.
Speaker 5: Now they have once again the infamous rule.
Speaker 3: They kind of have to tell us, right, you have
Speaker 3: to be able to have the eyes to see, and
Speaker 3: it's there for the people who are willing to look.
Speaker 4: Where where is that revelation of the method? Where do
Speaker 4: you reckon that's come from? Because it does seem to
Speaker 4: be a thing, doesn't it.
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 3: They can't intentionally hold our hand and pick it up
Speaker 3: and you know, and do whatever. They We have free will.
Speaker 3: That's when people, you know, something goes wrong in life
Speaker 3: and they say, if there is a god, why would
Speaker 3: he allow this to happen. Well, it's you either have
Speaker 3: free will or you don't. If you were controlled one
Speaker 3: hundred percent, you wouldn't. You'd complain about not having free will.
Speaker 3: So you can't have it one way or the other.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then just nearly finished with these technical manuals.
Speaker 4: It's flat, non rotating Earth with a stationary atmosphere.
Speaker 1: I've seen their technical manuals.
Speaker 5: I've seen them.
Speaker 1: They're good. Yep, Mars. I love finding Mars because it's easy.
Speaker 4: It's on Devon Island, Canada, it's in Libya, it's in
Speaker 4: the Bulgaria.
Speaker 1: That's thing. How they can spread mass over those parts
Speaker 1: of the Earth.
Speaker 5: That's right, there's.
Speaker 1: An emphact like they're just the same. They're not even
Speaker 1: touched up except for color.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: That JPL picture from twenty twelve that Mars rover had
Speaker 3: a snapshot and there was a little mouse on the
Speaker 3: bottom left hand corner.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, you got to love those things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. Well done.
Speaker 4: Do you want me to go? Can I go into
Speaker 4: final words? I've got just a real thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah please do.
Speaker 3: We've got just about two minutes left, so feel free
Speaker 3: to go ahead and wrap up.
Speaker 1: Okay, And can I pray at the end please?
Speaker 5: Yeah? There's always talking about that, Yes.
Speaker 1: Sir, so, I was reading this this morning in my Bible.
Speaker 4: The Apostle Paul, in one of the New Testament's most
Speaker 4: touching moments, encourages the Ephesian elders with these verses. In
Speaker 4: Acts twenty, he says, for I know this that after
Speaker 4: my departure, savage wolves will come in among you, not
Speaker 4: sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves, men will rise up,
Speaker 4: speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples up to themselves. Therefore,
Speaker 4: watch and remember that for three years I did not
Speaker 4: cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. So now, brethren,
Speaker 4: I commend you to God and to the word of
Speaker 4: His grace, who is able to build you up and
Speaker 4: give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Speaker 4: Please search the scriptures out about this to see if
Speaker 4: God tells us about his heavens and his earth.
Speaker 1: Okay, Can I pray?
Speaker 5: Of course?
Speaker 4: Okay, Sorry, I've written down because if I pray without
Speaker 4: the notes then I could go for too long rambling.
Speaker 1: I don't want to remble. Dear Lord, we just thank you.
Speaker 4: For this great opportunity to share our stories today, and
Speaker 4: especially the knowledge that we have that we know you,
Speaker 4: Father God. We pray you guide our thinking as we
Speaker 4: believe the truth. Pray for those who are not yet
Speaker 4: close to you, that you would draw them to you
Speaker 4: with your mighty love, Your mighty word and your mighty
Speaker 4: work of Jesus the Savior. Lord, I pray you continue
Speaker 4: to wake your church up and reveal truth to all believers. Father,
Speaker 4: just as Jesus prayed, we pray you sanctify us by
Speaker 4: your truth.
Speaker 1: We know your word is truth.
Speaker 4: We ask you for wisdom and above all things, Lord,
Speaker 4: that we would love you with all of our heart, soul,
Speaker 4: mind and strength, and love our neighbor, Love our neighbor
Speaker 4: as ourself.
Speaker 1: We pray this in Jesus Mighty name for your glory. Father,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, George, God bless you.
Speaker 3: God, bless you too, and thank you for I love
Speaker 3: the angle, not the angle, but I love that you
Speaker 3: siting scripture throughout the conversation. That's very important. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of people who say, well, you know, you know, well,
Speaker 3: talk to me about flirt earth not not so much.
Speaker 3: The Bible come from a science angle or a technical angle, and.
Speaker 5: You can do that too. We can.
Speaker 3: We've you know, we've beaten curvature. We know that water
Speaker 3: always finds it level. We can do things like that.
Speaker 3: But if there was no God, if there was no
Speaker 3: you know, pearly gates waiting for us, why would we
Speaker 3: even worry about the realm. We live in retrospect. We
Speaker 3: know where we live, and knowing where you live means everything.
Speaker 3: Especially when you can look up and you can point
Speaker 3: to that north star right in that area, that's.
Speaker 5: Where God is.
Speaker 3: And I think that's a really cool way that you
Speaker 3: you kind of break the ice with people.
Speaker 5: That's really awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Can I say one more thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that people often say the Bible is in the
Speaker 4: science textbook.
Speaker 1: Praise the Lord for that. God doesn't have to change
Speaker 1: it every second year.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 3: He doesn't have to do hypothesis and all the time.
Speaker 1: That's we don't want to science textbook. I want the truth.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Amen.
Speaker 1: Well, God bless you, and I hope you get all
Speaker 1: your work done. You need to on your on your
Speaker 1: you call it a right.
Speaker 3: It's just a small homestead. We have our chickens and
Speaker 3: we have our greenhouse, and we're pulling out our carrots
Speaker 3: and the relishes this time of year.
Speaker 5: So it's good. It keeps us busy.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Yeah, that's good. All right.
Speaker 3: God bless you, God bless you, and thank you all
Speaker 3: so much for continuing to support the Flat Earth Files
Speaker 3: podcast again.
Speaker 5: The website is the Flat.
Speaker 3: Earth files dot com and we will have Carmelo's email
Speaker 3: address in the show notes if you'd like to reach
Speaker 3: out to him, and I'm sure he'd be more than
Speaker 3: happy to reach back out to you.
Speaker 5: God bless each and every one of you.
Speaker 3: Have a great Thanksgiving to everyone here in the United
Speaker 3: States and to all those who celebrate enjoy that Turkey.
Speaker 3: God bless, have a great week. And until we meet again,
Speaker 3: my friends, we will see.
Speaker 8: I know it's been struggle. I don't know you've had me.
Speaker 8: Don't all the way? Yeah, I don't you feeling more?
Speaker 8: You smile, ain't the same. I saw the way to
Speaker 8: go from you feel like.
Speaker 9: You've lost your way. Don't give it. No, don't give
Speaker 9: it and never this home. Don't let call the primise.
Speaker 9: It ain't done yet. He's gone up ladder. Why it's
Speaker 9: a right time? Got up?
Speaker 10: Let me come?
Speaker 9: Why wait, God up, lem me calling.
Speaker 8: I can see the street beside you. Child's are putting
Speaker 8: up five.
Speaker 11: Oh, you're got a thing. Yeah, you're gonna be all right.
Speaker 11: You're accepting a dead folio.
Speaker 6: Beautiful, you're shoving ride, Yeah, you're living, breathing, move.
Speaker 5: You can hold your head.
Speaker 6: Of pie.
Speaker 10: Don't give up, No, don't give in, never lose home,
Speaker 10: don't let go on the primise. It ain't done yet's God?
Speaker 1: I plant?
Speaker 5: Wat's a way down the.
Speaker 6: God of me became me.
Speaker 9: Don't give up, No, don't give in you, never lose home,
Speaker 9: don't let go on the promise.
Speaker 1: It ain't god life, it's worth live men.
Speaker 10: Wat's a way down the god of cal WHA's the
Speaker 10: play down the god? Oh yeah, what's the play down
Speaker 10: the god?
Speaker 9: Baby call?
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, got called.
Speaker 6: Don't give up, no, don't give in, never solve? Do
Speaker 6: they go of the primis n in and done? Yeah,
Speaker 6: he's got up playing watch and die kind of in
Speaker 6: a colts don't give no, dog giving never it's hold.
Speaker 1: Don't they go of the crimes? It ain't done? Others
Speaker 1: worth live in?
Speaker 6: What's the god of the colts? All the did of
Speaker 6: needs cos whits don't God.
Speaker 5: You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network.
Speaker 1: Just the facts, ma'am.